pvp

[odd schooner]

QE still irreplaceable?

[elder crane]

e.g. Daxam's HMS setup prolly needs 2 FCR to reliably smack both barrages on foxes before launch

[modern tree]

And I am pretty fucking certain 410 is better on Monarch btw

[elder crane]

if you don't run QE there's little point to run HMS, might as well run Namagi with Monarch flex

[modern tree]

I mean, I can ditch QE for Amagi, but then I am just playing a hipster barrage meme

[odd schooner]

If only kgv was good enough

[modern tree]

KGV is like the only boat on EN that might come even remotely close to being QE replacement, but you need to also run Aurora with her and I don't have both to test

[elder crane]

why is her barrage so underpowered anyways smh
not that high dmg, super long delay time, and fricken only 70% for all that

fix any one of the three and it'd be passable at least

[odd schooner]

Dork gets the 100% treatment

[elder crane]

yeah but then her barrage is complete ass on damage

[modern tree]

Pretty sure ykkz barrage torps deal more damage than Dork barrage shells

[odd schooner]

[modern tree]

It's really bad

[odd schooner]

Wtf

[elder crane]

it's a quad-356 damage barrage, with no bonus from main gun mods, and it's Normal ammo armor mods too

and also has the quad-356 dispersion on it

sure it slows, but the targeting makes that irrelevant for PvP

if it targeted closest enemy instead it'd actually be useful

[modern tree]

If her barrage applied her debuff then it would be insta useful

But it's just trash, inaccurate damage with slow

[elder crane]

with targeting that is actively counterproductive

[ionic magnet]

dork barrage is actually comparable to ws barrage in terms of dmg per salvo

it just fires slower by 5 secs

[elder crane]

yeah but ws dmg mods are BBAP which is good for the target, and has good dispersion

(and ws's current barrage isn't great either)

[ionic magnet]

i mean both hits for roughly 1.5k dmg per salvo

[elder crane]

oh yeah I reread the barrage chart, yep considering ws's 80% FP bs, that cancels out the BBAP better mods

so ws is then ~150X2 which is lower total but has better dispersion than Dork's ~100X4

but when ws's barrage time is 15s +5s is a loooot more

[ionic magnet]

yep more or less

[elder crane]

and compare it to Wash's it's just.... sad

[ionic magnet]

normal ammo making it look even more sad

[vague token]

[modern tree]

Warspite auto crits, guys

What are you smoking

[vague token]

smoking that 50% crit damage

xD

if dork auto crit on her barrage that'd be yikes

or maybe actually usable

[ionic magnet]

crits are accounted for yea

[modern tree]

She deals 1700 damage per shell

And dork doesn't even give ships a chance to evade her shells half the time cuz spread

Dunno, they aren't really comparable

[vague token]

[ionic magnet]

[hot creek]

[wicked rivet]

Whats the FP comparison between warkai and dork?

Warkai has autocrit on barrage but dork has 2x dmg on first salvos as long as they dont whiff on vg

[ionic magnet]

ws 426 doy 421

close enough

[wicked rivet]

Pretty close

Yea

[ionic magnet]

ws acc/luck gives roughly 10% more hitrate tho

[wicked rivet]

O shit does she have more

Welp

[ionic magnet]

compared to doy

[elder crane]

it's actually above 10% more vs main
more-or-less, the extra hit luck should be getting her at least 20% more averaged damage multiplier

[ionic magnet]

why is that

[elder crane]

significantly more vs higher-eva vanguard

oh, the hitrate boost from luck/hit on WS vs Dork is about 20% of the base hitrate vs main, approximately

[ionic magnet]

i calculated against 90 eva and i got 8% difference plus 2% from luck

[elder crane]

huh, funny, I got 9% plus luck

using lv 120 stats?

plus 90 eva is SG+Rudder, which not all main run that much +eva

or Rudder on a CV too

[ionic magnet]

yea i didnt look at all digits so uts prolly 9%

and no wonder BB shots feel so coinflip they only have 50-60% hitrate vs backliners

didn't bother to calculate til now kek

[wicked rivet]

73 Luck and 70 hit vs 90 Luck and 125 Hit

holy shit

[elder crane]

which is why amagi's 10% evarate is a huuuuge deal

[wicked rivet]

non retro its still 100 Hit

[elder crane]

it's almost 20% more eHP vs BB shots, more vs bombs/aviation torps

[ionic magnet]

yea its sad when you see a 406 miss all three shells

[elder crane]

that's almost Juneau levels
and multiplies with Juneau heal as well ofc

and that's before you consider the stat debuffs too

[wicked rivet]

gold SG + FCR = no missed shots

well

very rarely

[elder crane]

well... no
that just bumps you up to about 140 hit base, then assuming its namagi nagato bumps you up to 170
which puts you at 65% hitrate vs 90 eva main with amagi's skill

(ignoring luck)

77% though vs someone running SG+FCR in return

65% is vs Rudder+SG

[wicked rivet]

close enough

[shy hazel]

complicated maths

just use the most meta shipscand gears and math wont matter much

[wicked rivet]

watch out we got a genius over here

[shy hazel]

this game is easy enuf not to require math

its just pure grind for ships and gears

and praying to buddha for rng salvation

👀

[elder crane]

Maths is what led the top of CN to realize that shells on Namagi is actually suboptimal

[finite valve]

who need praying when you have the all powerful reset button?

[shy hazel]

resetting too much will tirr u out for so long

[finite valve]

not if you win every fight in 1 try

[midnight heron]

sometimes i just wish they wud add a "reduce enemy rng" button beside the reset button

[wicked rivet]

[shy hazel]

make all barrage and skills proc button

u mean

[midnight heron]

nah man it needs to reduce chances of enemy vg walking out of shell range

[wicked rivet]

just make it freeze the enemy vg in center

[midnight heron]

😼

also i've realised that for some reason shell location from attacker's end doesn't always show where it hits

u can hit somewhere completely off a ships location and they still get hit

[shy hazel]

shells has splash dmg

to some extent

tho i only know hoodgun has it

[midnight heron]

yea but i find it off putting when my shells land in the middle of the screen but the enemy hiryuu at the edge gets hit

[shy hazel]

dunno bout 406

[midnight heron]

the lack of red shell markers also contributes to the issue

by middle of the screen i mean middle of the right side of the screen, not the exact middle

[shy hazel]

sumire typing since forever

[finite valve]

maint is today right?

[shy hazel]

yyp

[cerulean estuary]

no barrage skills in pvp , all skill effects / duration are reduced to 50%

no attack buffs on attacking fleet
no leave battle

( a sudden call came up )

[midnight heron]

is dis a make attacker lose button kek

[finite valve]

the 1 line is basically just re balance skill between pvp and pve

[elder crane]

yeah, I think there's a visual bug with BB shells

it's super obvious in PvE if you care to look

[midnight heron]

yea definitely

[shy hazel]

go report on bug reports

[cerulean estuary]

i want a MUTSUKI MEME face BB shell skin

[shy hazel]

theyll never fix it tho

u mean smugbucky shells

[midnight heron]

just give friendly shells green markers or smth idk

[shy hazel]

imgine yourself losing to bucky shells

woke

[finite valve]

more like hit detection if anything tbh

[elder crane]

It might also be another of the threading desync dependency issues

the game trying to render shells before they have the correct data loaded

[vague token]

🍝

[elder crane]

the "ghost shells" all seem to fly the the neutral position

[coral wren]

am I a tryhard

[elder crane]

not 15k vanguard, not tryhard enough

(jk on that)

[vague token]

i think i know a guy who runs 6 oxy +10

[finite valve]

i can beat that fleet with my eye close

[vague token]

serious

[finite valve]

not try hard enough

[vague token]

just for memes though

[wicked rivet]

throw more oxy on vg

smh only 14.5k

[vague token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/163430985214459904/590683465020604426/Screenshot_20190618-162340.png

yeah here it was

[elder crane]

slap all them gold equip on main

[vague token]

look at this madlad

xD

[wicked rivet]

also how tf u only have 14.1k on backline

with enty

[elder crane]

maybe 410s on BBs?

[wicked rivet]

maybe

[elder crane]

it's not that much lower than it should be at

[wicked rivet]

but enty should more than comp for that

[elder crane]

Kiz box instead of gold cata might also lower

[vague token]

it does

im 14798

with 120 sara, 120 amagi, 119 nagato

and sara has a retro to pad those stats

[elder crane]

hey who knows, maybe Enty's lv1

[vague token]

xD

lemme try cata

cata pushes me to 14833

i think maybe once nagato hits max oath it will break 15k with cata

maaaybe

[elder crane]

there's also stuff like FE on the BBs too

[vague token]

also note that im running triple gold planes

so im boooosted

xD

if you're using heccdiver it'll be a little lower?

[elder crane]

well I mean main fleet can go preeetty low

[vague token]

yeah sara has a retro padding that fleet powah

[elder crane]

Hiryuu's at 4187 (lv 119 tbf, but still)
Meanwhile Amagi's 5015

[vague token]

hiryuu might break 5k post retro

maaaaybe

[elder crane]

huh, hood's now lower power than Amagi at lv120?

Wait nvm that might be the staag and HFCR

[finite valve]

not like power fleet matter to be affective anyway

[elder crane]

wow Dork's fleet power is low af for a BB, I think
4861 (120, 200 aff, and this is with the 410 AP gun I was using for bossing)

[vague token]

[finite valve]

13k and can still win vs 14k + fleet easily zzz

[elder crane]

well fleet power means nearly nothing so w/e

it's just a fun thing to stare at

There's so much silliness around Fleet power with how stuff are factored in (or in many cases just ignored)

[quiet adder]

uss backlines sure are rare

[finite valve]

more like a full 120 is rarer lel

[wicked rivet]

^

nice levels

[vague token]

xD

[wicked rivet]

would give me a lotta xp to help mine get to 120

[finite valve]

back line is ez enough

fucking VG is where it at

[wicked rivet]

fr though

[quiet adder]

i had them done like last month and was just waiting for lv cap (no i am not using that aux setup for her)

[wicked rivet]

grinding 120 is hard for vg

[finite valve]

most ppl here don't just focus on 1 ship for both pvp and pve so there's that

they separate pvp and pve ship so most pvp here don't have full 120

[cerulean estuary]

im one of the guilty 🍆

[vague token]

only vanguard close is ykk for me

[quiet adder]

Yeah true, i only have 4 rows that are past 100

[ionic magnet]

+0 last reset

etherstar never moved

[lament lichen]

[ionic magnet]

he's still prolly sleeping lol

and my leftmost is 34 pts ahead as usual

[wicked rivet]

oof

[elder crane]

What, your lists actually move at all?

[lament lichen]

I would like to see my list move in 4 hours

Then i can play the game

[shell heron]

HooLooVoo, you were on my list last reset. you bastard

you decided to move 7min before next reset

[ionic magnet]

LOL

[lament lichen]

Just outsandbag him ez

[ionic magnet]

i actually got walled by some namaryuu for 5+ mins

[wicked rivet]

they move tonight

cause the new rank is achievable

F

[ionic magnet]

[elder crane]

heh what sort of shite were you running

[lament lichen]

Whos team did you get walled

[elder crane]

(tbf having to reset twice in a row on repeated bad RNG isn't super rare vs good teams)

[vague token]

aka did enemy nagato big seven two times vs your zero

;)))))))

[ionic magnet]

Illusion i think? first time i saw him tbh but its mostly my meme comps fault

[lament lichen]

Meme team

[shell heron]

meme comp on offense

[wicked rivet]

oh I saw illusion

[elder crane]

well 2 is still overcomeable
2+down an amagi barrage, or god forbid, 3 Nagato barrages is very difficult

[wicked rivet]

in the rankings, not on my list

[shell heron]

my opponent getting 2 amagi barrages over me makes it really difficult to come back.

[elder crane]

uhoh, first time to get ambushed 3 times on 12-4
missed all 3 ambush evasions, that's, what, 1% to happen or so?

[shell heron]

Which is usually Namaryuu mirror matches

[ionic magnet]

ykkz refusing to die is super annoying ill try to switch in aurora for now

[elder crane]

ehh being down just amagi barrages isn't that bad imo

Jun/Aurora/Ykkz or Jint/Aurora/Ykkz for that, generally

2nd is if your Jun is low level

[shell heron]

I like placing Amagi opposite of Hiryuu. That also means their Amagi is across my Hiryuu

[elder crane]

that's my main strat
getting your Hiryuu proced early when she has Ryuusei isn't actually that bad

usually it means either their VG (if not dead) or more likely Nagato evaporates

[lament lichen]

Proccing their hiryuu makes the match alot easier

[elder crane]

and then you win being 1 ship up

Hiryuu always and only ever MVP in those really close matchups

[shell heron]

Amagi barrage is fun. sometimes it chunks Hiryuu for over half hp

other times it barely touches her

[vague token]

i mean it has AP ratios

if the aimed shots target her

it's gonna be 230 base with those multipliers lol

BIG deeps

[elder crane]

only on med, standard BBnormal vs heavy

[vague token]

yeah

[elder crane]

cause lol what is "consistency"

[vague token]

to be fair

AP ammo isnt consistent between categories anyways

so a barrage being weird

isnt really anything fancy

xD

"armor piercing" lol

[elder crane]

about half of barrages are also actual ammo types of some gun
a handful more are clearly modified off something
and the rest all all.... unique

[vague token]

half is pretty bad xD

that's an F

to pay respects

;)

ykk somehow stealing mvps in 12-2

on safe

big nani

[wicked rivet]

nanoda stronk

[vague token]

[wicked rivet]

[elder crane]

ch12 battles can be pretty short
and torps are preloaded

[vague token]

yeah

[elder crane]

goshdarnit ark
I know you're you and all but stop chasing those production destroyers and please target the stationary boss

[vague token]

[craggy cove]

wait

was today season reset

wait

its wednesday

what kind of drugs am i on jesus christ

[vague token]

you ok? xD

dont sandbag so hard you cant tell what day it is

not healthy ;)

[wicked rivet]

foxgirl

and tru

[finite valve]

iris coming right after glorious?

[hot creek]

welp there goes my plans of 120'ing waifus

time to save up fuel again

[buoyant parrot]

Welp there goes my gems for oil...

[finite valve]

well you still got like 1 week for saving oil

glorious is only 60 run on like lvl 70 at most anyway

[buoyant parrot]

I hope lv there is high so consuming large quantity of oil is worth it and leveling pvp ship is worth it

[finite valve]

going to bust out my 0lb phoenix / mahan i guess

[buoyant parrot]

Omg this map is weak... Sad..

[finite valve]

even 6-4 has more exp than this crap

[vague token]

owo got a complete ch12 3 times mission

[finite valve]

a little late since maint is in 1h25

and maint is 4h

[vague token]

eh i can do it

i was already mid one run

12-2 is pretty easy

/cause 3:3

xD

[finite valve]

never said you can't just that you going to have 3h down time

also where are my long h research

got 0 of them when i need them

[vague token]

oh xD

to be fair it's the longest one i got before i sleep

so it's fineeee

[finite valve]

[vague token]

no laffeySleep emote =/

[finite valve]

first time in my life i am force to do cubes research

[vague token]

oof

[finite valve]

since no long research for maint

lost 8 cubes

zzz

[vague token]

X_x

[hot creek]

I always take the 1 hr cube researches unless there is a focused nep/monarch/sanrui which I will choose instead

[finite valve]

if you want to dev them fast

my focus is on gear

[shy hazel]

did all rounds now

go steal bonus from me if u can

busy

👀

wish mini event has pr bps

[leaden sequoia]

is that Kiro alt on Washy I'm seeing here

[vague token]

pfft

[leaden sequoia]

jk, he won't let his waifu Sara be this low level

[vague token]

ive never used aya in my team ;)

[leaden sequoia]

[vague token]

also i used sheffield

over belfast

cause gun

[lament lichen]

gdi i need top 9 for a bonus point

[leaden sequoia]

ez win with 110 Namaryuu Sheff/Jun/Nanoda

[vague token]

plus using sara with torp meme is pointless

xD

[leaden sequoia]

huh, that fleet power looks so low with Aya on board

[vague token]

yeah should be breaking almost 14k

should be around 13k at 110 right?

depending on oxytorp count

[leaden sequoia]

should be, if Ayaya toolbox + oxytorp

ah, she's oathed too, so I'm pretty sure

welp

[vague token]

[leaden sequoia]

ah, shit equips, here we go again

[vague token]

that's gotta be really bad though

1 oxy aya retro hits like 4.5k on her own

or something

[stark raft]

1875 with 5/10 means I slept on a reset?

[leaden sequoia]

I am 1901 with 0/10 and 5 lost matches

top 1 1936

[stark raft]

1925 if I get mostly +10 then huh

[leaden sequoia]

that lands you in top 10

[vague token]

1862 with -5 games, 5/10 (avrora though)

or at least -5

cant remember anymore cause sleep

one more torpedo daily then i can sleeeep

[modern tree]

Please stop posting IRIS CONFIRMED screenshots here as if they applied to en

[vague token]

and im outta here, night all

if you get me, ping me and in 8 hours ill rush 10 xD

[coral wren]

@elder crane was it you, who found ship behaviors settings while datamining?

In case if it was you, don't you remember, did it have something to do with the faction/ship class at all? Or was it strictly individual related? Like, eagle union ca's all share the same one particular behavior, while hms cl's another?

[sharp wing]

iirc it was related to individual ship's "character" as a girl

[hot creek]

My Neptune loves to hang around my backline when she sees planes so everyone gets to eat bombs.

[coral wren]

Same

Also, what was the wr of namagyuu on offense and defense on jp before pr2? 90%/85%(75% vs mirror)?

[coral wren]

Well, anyway, if anyone wants to add something to the feedback about pvp i left, that would be appreciated before they create a card on trello(in case if they do)

[sharp wing]

pvp still ded, top1 won't give me bonus 10/10

Kiro gotta love event icon

[stark raft]

No refresh and I landed on a sandbagger

[ionic magnet]

no idea why event icon is sara

[shy hazel]

typical potato dev

[ionic magnet]

sara fetishers confirmed

[shy hazel]

kiro paid off devs

oh event map got ambush

nice meme

[sharp wing]

Glorious is so bad, they were shamed to put her on icon

alone

acasta artist prolly gfl main

looking at her costume

[buoyant parrot]

the hell what is this why is Sara Icon on there... did @vague token payed the devs?!

[sharp wing]

legal loli magical girl onee-san

[coral wren]

Oh man, it's really frustrating

Every casual wants to get shit with no effort put

Oh my fucking god..

Fuck no. And the worst thing i just start think of, is while buffing certain classes might be good to make some ships back in meta, for others it might be straight fucking busting

So it comes to the point where many outclassed ships should be buffed individually, and not just amagi or ws kai

[sharp wing]

You know that devs don't read EN feed-back right?

So who cares

[buoyant parrot]

they do... specially when #pvp peeps are angry...

[sharp wing]

[buoyant parrot]

like what happened the last time regarding the pvp dst issue.

[sharp wing]

Well, that was just major community shitpost train

So they had to do something

[buoyant parrot]

it all started at #game-feedback

stella got herself almost banned coz of it

same for me lol

lots of complaints

fun times~ fun times....

[sharp wing]

Also that was not something, requiring actual dev work

So EN just sorted it out

But changes to pvp mechanics is not what they can do, that's what dev would have to do

[coral wren]

they did a lot of balancing when pvp was first released in CN

Just letting hq know that they are upsetting a bunch of pvp nerds here would be enough. Snowball effect is a thing

[sharp wing]

Cause that's devs on CN

EN team has no dev

They just publish

[coral wren]

then they just stopped. I think they gave up PvP since it's not a high priority

Well, feedback is mostly to send cn a message. We are like an african country, waiting for help and changes

[sharp wing]

They just stoped after it "worked"

It's not PVP only tho

CV issue is global

since high lvl pve also shits on cvs, aside from AA

[buoyant parrot]

now which reminds me if you see in the story characters keep saying its the era of Air Craft Carriers bla bla bla and yet BB's are like shitting on everyone's ass still~

[sharp wing]

lol

[buoyant parrot]

[sharp wing]

Yeah, the problem of CVs is game mechanics

since increase in enemy AA continously reduce their effectiveness

While BB only face hp pool increase

meanwhile their own power grows

[coral wren]

Ok, toaster is in, will see if they add that request

[sharp wing]

that's the issue of AA

on lower lvls cvs work perfectly

[coral wren]

I mean, if he ignores it, i'll just pm reeeestart

[sharp wing]

No Bulli leander

And get warned

[coral wren]

A sacrifice should be made

[sharp wing]

If sacrifice bring no profit, it's plain loss

[coral wren]

feedback assistants, my ass

[stark raft]

Incentives to do pvp would boost popularity

Juneau oath skin

[ionic magnet]

take it up a notch

Juneau swimsuit

[stark raft]

Juneau L2D oath skin

Better yet

Juneau kai

the real plane killer

[ionic magnet]

adult juneau swimsuit l2d

[coral wren]

Fucking finally

Ok, some might think it's nothing, but i do hope for the best

[modern tree]

If there is no incentive to pvp then what the fuck are y'all doing here

[coral wren]

[modern tree]

I am so tired of reading this bullshit

"ooh there is no point of doing it so I am getting gensui every month"

[stark raft]

Gotta do it like famine and edge out last 5 min pvp everytime to make it exciting

[wicked rivet]

Who tf even PVPs in 2019

[elder crane]

@coral wren
Each ship's "character" is individually set, no obvious trend I found (not that I really looked)
No idea if there's actually an effect, but automode does load in the personality - or more specifically, two "rates" attached to personality (front_rate and rear_rate)
(I couldn't figure out how the personality loaded in came into effect)
Also Namayuu is near-100% vs nonmirror on offense, and I still stick to my guns on 85+% winrate in mirror vs near-optimal teams, at 110 before PR

[wicked rivet]

Just do PvE

[coral wren]

Ok, sweet! Thx!

[stark raft]

Juneau not even on pixiv, shameful

[wicked rivet]

She's probly on gelbooru

[stark raft]

Time to commision all these doujin artists to get her popularity up

[wicked rivet]

$500 for an asanagi comm

[stark raft]

I never knew she was holding a fucking pistol

heal ships by shooting herself like in persona

[sharp wing]

Like all of her class

[wicked rivet]

[sharp wing]

Junie artist has 35 ships...

💸

Milk them devs

[stark raft]

The artist has a good repertoire huh

[sharp wing]

yeah

Tho Junie needs retro for thighs

Like Leipzig

[stark raft]

Time to hit up shindol for the real Juneau skin

[sharp wing]

Every1 needs Lewdhound tier retro growth (or Cygnet at least)

[coral wren]

I don't think it's up to artist if ship gets a skin or not

[sharp wing]

If artist is inactive, there no skins

[modern tree]

It is, actually

[ionic magnet]

why are there ships with no artist lol

[sharp wing]

If artist doesn't want to draw skin, there no skin either

[stark raft]

Manjuu art?

[modern tree]

if Saru wasnt drawing stuff for his ships then they'd have no skins, and instead we have actually all of them

[ionic magnet]

[sharp wing]

Not confirmed

[coral wren]

Wait, if they are working full time it shouldn't be up to them

[sharp wing]

full time?

wtf you talking lol

That's not how these things work

[coral wren]

Or are they just hiring freelance artists all the time? I remember they had a circle of artists working a fulltime job there

[sharp wing]

Fulltimers are for other drawing

UI, game elements etc.

[coral wren]

Huh..

[sharp wing]

Wallpapers, shipgirls that's other thing

[stark raft]

their dev team too busy making mahjong soul on ios/android

[sharp wing]

And yostar gonna get their hands busy w/ Arknights

[coral wren]

Btw, please do vote on trello

[sharp wing]

trello

not using that

[coral wren]

https://trello.com/c/G3itMyUj/738-ideas-of-pvp-improvement

Trello

Ideas of PVP improvement

1. rework seasonal rewards, make it so it's not just merits on all ranks and therefore for a casual player it's not bullins only and nothing else. Perhaps something like a in game title/border that'll last for that season or something similar.
2. Do change stats of certain s...

Votes

3

Labels

Full Release, Low Priority

[wicked rivet]

"change stats of certain s..."
I dont know what the rest of that sentence is but I dont like it

1 is good tho

[coral wren]

Yeah, just click the link and read through it

[sharp wing]

ws kai fp only reduced for barrage calculations tho...

You make it look, like if it's reduced indeed

And that's not even a thing

[coral wren]

Dude, if they have the means to set numbers in pvp differently from pve, that's good enough

[wicked rivet]

yes lemme go to trello on my work pc where its blocked

[coral wren]

Since they did fix bismarck's barrage, i wonder how much of a backlash was there on cn and jp in the first place

[sharp wing]

I mean, I totally not agree w/ 3 points there

Devs won't even look at that either

[coral wren]

Huh, he forgot to fix the text after deleting thing about merit shop

but whatever

[finite valve]

the make meta more diverse is impossible to implement due to how meta work

and improve sub usage should not even be in the pvp section anyway

[empty sinew]

suggestion #0 should be

change the mode name from exercise into pvp

[sharp wing]

*remove pvp

[empty sinew]

it doesn't even exist, what is there to remove

[wicked rivet]

change channel name to #exercise-discussion

[sharp wing]

wait, wtf is going on. Do planes have 'default' bombs or something? My Lusty w/ 2 Messers drops bombs

[vagrant veldt]

all CVs have magic fighters

[sharp wing]

'fighters'

[vagrant veldt]

they are invisible but drop bombs with targets selected on take off

[sharp wing]

But they don't have intercept?

[vagrant veldt]

they don't intercept but I think they do have AA capabilities

1 damage or something

[sharp wing]

AA ye, but no intercept function

cause i never seen no fighter CVs deal any damage

outside of airstrike

[elder crane]

yeah, CVs have "ghost bombs"

afaik no one knows what most CVs have in terms of that

[sharp wing]

It's funny tho, dat Lusty bombs thing

[vagrant veldt]

6 bombs with base damage estimated to be 110

[sharp wing]

11o doesn't fit any bombs tho

wait

t1 500lb?

wiki has t2-t0 stats only

[vagrant veldt]

I see calculations between 110 to 170

[sharp wing]

or closer to +10 t1 100lb bomb

[elder crane]

afaik each CV has a different ghost bomb loadout

in any case overall the contribution of these is minimal

[sharp wing]

probably depends on plane slots

yeah, still good

high lvl lusty can actually bomb 95+ things

Even if it's basically equal to 3x t1 fulmars

[elder crane]

bring 2X500 fighters and it's all moot again

[sharp wing]

nah, i'm fine

[elder crane]

The Me155 isn't even much significantly better at AA than the F6F

[sharp wing]

but significant rof increase for lusty skill

and faster airstrikes help w/ aa too

[elder crane]

not that significant really
and killing things faster does better protecting stuff

[sharp wing]

Yeah, no.

I'm not running lusty for mobbing anyway

It's to protecc my underlvled vg on ch12 bosses autoing

[elder crane]

Even in boss fleet her damage contribution isn't insignificant

[sharp wing]

It's more of necessity

[elder crane]

I ran her with Amagi and Dork and she was dealing somewhere around half of Dork and 1/3 of Amagi

[sharp wing]

For current situation

[elder crane]

idk, it means your boss battle should be something like 10% longer otherwise at minimum
which is also not very healthy for the vanguard

[sharp wing]

She does decent damage w/ 6 x500 fighters

If ran 110+ ships, i'd use those

Wish Mle actually had 3x1 pattern instead of 1x3. Would miss less

[elder crane]

Wish Granted - 3x1 but it has a 40 degree spread

[sharp wing]

She can be just roon gun w/ 1 salvo

But those US guns spread is obnoxious

[analog hare]

Wich setup is better for CA in terms of eHP
Washing + Beaver or
Washing + Toolbox/Bulge

[modern tree]

evasion all the way

[analog hare]

This is for Roon but since she has decent eva I considering that

[midnight heron]

tfw ur amagi with staag + 2 sg takes more dmg from enemy amagi dats 7 lvls lower...

..................................................

[coral wren]

rng

[modern tree]

That just mens their amagi is holding an FCR or you are losing on barrage targetting

Also regarding Roons eHP

if shes up front

then you need a bulge anywyas

cuz your front ship sort of needs it regardless

[elder crane]

it's pretty silly to ever not have bulge on your lead ship

for the rest it's optional

[modern tree]

like, if you are setting up your aux for speed, then your front ship will eat like 70% of torps and das a lot of damage

your mid and back dont particularly need it if you are fast enough

but lead should always have it

[elder crane]

and also the other ships mostly eat less torps which is nice

you use your lead in a speed-vg setup to sweep the seas clean of torpedos so other ships don't get hit as much

by running into all of them

[modern tree]

now that I have pr wheel, I do not think it actually fits on any ship in HMS

[coral wren]

Qe?

Or do you just stick to 2 sg radars

[modern tree]

She has beaver badge, cant afford to just not run ACC

[coral wren]

Hm..

[modern tree]

Monarch needs 2 ACC items cuz 0 luck

Hood has really low luck but shes like the only one where it's considerable

but I am not sure if I want that

I will try it for a bit I guess

[coral wren]

About monarch tho, will shell be worth it with hpfcr? You will definitely lose acc, but that should be an enormous increase in dmg

It's something around -17 acc iirc

[modern tree]

I think HFCR and SG is the only items you can run on Monarch

I think shell is a meme unless you are Warspite

0 luck is really rough

[sharp wing]

Yeah, shell only really anything worthwhile on WS or Bisquirt

[coral wren]

17 is like 1/3 of her base acc

Ok, that's kinda alot

[modern tree]

Warspite's luck and base ACC are so high that white shell is actually a tangible dps increase, shes gonna crit so often

other HMS ships, not so much

[coral wren]

More fun gambling on the other hand

Rolling for 70% to happen, rolling for barrage to hit

[sharp wing]

Like if PVP not enough gambling already esp at 120

[coral wren]

I'd still give it a try tho...

[elder crane]

On one hand, no Amagi buff means Eva is worse
On the other hand, QE buffs Eva stat %-wise
Hmm... probably ends up still being a trade, damage for survivability, about 12% on either end, for SG vs rudder

[modern tree]

If I have never mentioned it before, I love getting Hood barrage evaded entirely because Amagi exists

[coral wren]

Yep, and monarch as well

[elder crane]

does QE buff hit as well or only FP?

[modern tree]

Monarch is hitting like 3 shells on average with barrage, the difference is that Hood deals like 700-800 damage and Monarch deals like 1200

[coral wren]

Firepower, Torpedo stat, Air Power, Anti-Air, Reload, and Evasion

no accuracy

Death to the queen

[modern tree]

if QE gave acc then she would actually be irreplacable for pvp

[elder crane]

#IJNbias on Nagato I suppose

[modern tree]

nah, its just shift in design philosophy

you can tell that they started treating acc like a real stat somewhere along the way

[elder crane]

not that that actually changes the effect of SG radar, in terms of how much % it increases damage by, I think

[modern tree]

and now they value it so high it's bizarre

[elder crane]

Well it's a very high-value stat when around level parity

always has been

hmmm, wait, maybe not on the "always" part

since iirc there was a evasion rework early on CN

dunno what changed then

all I know is that it changed Eva scaling to be worse and shafted HMS DDs

[coral wren]

But with hms being a strongly dependent on barrages they sure in need of that acc buff

I wonder if the considered giving qe a retro when ws kai was around the corner

[sharp wing]

I think not

[modern tree]

nope, hms is an inside joke

[sharp wing]

I'd consider giving retroes to half of HMS carriers...

starting from godawful Glorious

That loses in dps by miles to wasp

[modern tree]

when half of the relevant boats in the faction are the boats that have been in game since release

[coral wren]

Well, historically she had a retrofit

[modern tree]

you know the faction is just a dump

[coral wren]

But by looking at it they would need to make her an aircraft bb

[sharp wing]

Glorious originally was Battlecruiser

She was retrofirted in CV

[coral wren]

Well, speaking of a dump nation nothing can beat kms imo

[sharp wing]

Kms ship amount/quality > hms

[modern tree]

KMS for the number of boarts they have has staggering number of boats that are a class of their own

[coral wren]

Being cucked this hard on the one of the most awaited ships is just.. well played, i guess?

[sharp wing]

You just hyped too much

[coral wren]

[sharp wing]

I didn't expect anything and i'm not disappointed in the end

That's main rule of gachas anyway

(esp utter droprates)

[coral wren]

I'd like to say it was quite unlucky that they decided to calm the fuck down with power creep, but then i look at pr2

[modern tree]

starting from having the best sub duo on the game, going through FdG and best faction buffers in the game, ending on their best VG lineup in the game past maybe china wall

[sharp wing]

PR2 happened before for original version tho

[modern tree]

KMS is really fucking good

and bisquit not actually breaking a game in half is not a reason to riot

[sharp wing]

As i said KMS ship amount/quality ratio is pretty good

HMS on other side

Esp counting those countless useless DDs

mediocre cas

[coral wren]

Well, how long before pr2 appeared? Wasn't paying attention tbh to jp at that time when they announced them

[sharp wing]

in spring

17/04?

18/04 was PR2 maint on jp i think

idk about CN

[coral wren]

yea, it looks like the first announcement was in april

[modern tree]

common zs are still useful for the same reason common fletchers are not all trash

[sharp wing]

kms ship quality ratio is high

[coral wren]

Well, i was thinking we are speaking regarding pvp, not pve..

[sharp wing]

We speaking in general

Well, Ks has top tier AA

[modern tree]

talking about pvp performance is pointless because we live in a world where every ship is instantly obsolete when compared to Amagi

[vague token]

sup, i heard we got sara event

[sharp wing]

HE's HERE

[elder crane]

oh lol yeah that bug

[sharp wing]

She is magical girl after all, she can anything

[modern tree]

like seriously, if you want to talk how good ship is, first you compare it to Amagi, then to any PR ship, then to Juneau, THEN you can talk about its merits

[coral wren]

Imagine the main source of money appears to come fron en. Would their ijn bias change to uss?

[sharp wing]

lol

Also Europe is also on EN

[modern tree]

it wouldnt because China is rised to hate Japan and yet we have IJN bias

[elder crane]

Also don't forget to compare to WSkai once that releases

[sharp wing]

Well, china and japan have history...

[elder crane]

and then the further powercreep of PR2

[vague token]

gotta follow the gems

at least georgia only gets MGM+1

[sharp wing]

[vague token]

shoulda done that for azuma and fdg

[coral wren]

Lmao

[vague token]

oh wait azuma only gets +1, should be no MGM xD

[sharp wing]

Well, she's VG, so only +1

Don't make her 100% forntline Main, lol

[coral wren]

Well, i guess at least we should thank them for not adding ussr paper ships

[sharp wing]

There plenty

[modern tree]

tfw IJN pr CA doesnt even get torps

[sharp wing]

uss light armor CAs

CB tho

She got BIG ASS guns

[modern tree]

dont care about made up classes

[sharp wing]

It's not made up tho

CB is legit ww2 class

[coral wren]

Yeah, it's a super heavy cruiser papership

[sharp wing]

USS Alaska class were CBs

[coral wren]

Design B-65 cruiser

[sharp wing]

But they got a bit smaller 305 guns

Azuma 310

German pocket battleships are also of their own tier

French got their "super destroyers"

Italians also had some weird stuff

Can't wait the pizza ships

lack pizza

soonTM

[vague token]

🍝

[sharp wing]

[coral wren]

I mean, the only real fleets were uss, hms and ijn

[sharp wing]

🍕

I mean, KMS was all about subs

[coral wren]

Soviets, kms italians and french were irrelevant as fuck

[sharp wing]

IJN also suffered from low industry

They only could afford to built 2 BBs, so they decided to make them super strong

Yamato and Musashi

3rd Yamato was converted to CV halfway

And in the End both yamato BBs were downed by planes

[vague token]

they didnt have enough materials either

[coral wren]

Well, pacific war was a one big fuck up in general

[sharp wing]

Yamato death was basically public execution by 10 or so cv/cvls

Which were 300 miles away

[coral wren]

Ye

[sharp wing]

there were around 280 planes

[coral wren]

I'd say same shit was with tirpitz and bismarck, but in lesser numbers

That feel when pvp is so fucking dead it came to history discussions

[sharp wing]

I mean, it's fun how we talk about how it's CVs era in game story, but they are shit at high lvls

[vague token]

[coral wren]

game design>history

[vague token]

im telling you, if we get the siren helicopters

cvs will be good

[sharp wing]

Ohboi not again

[vague token]

cause that's constant dps until they die

;))))))))

dunno what plane slot they'd take though

[coral wren]

Wouldn't it be equal to the burn dmg, but busted as fuck in numbers?

[vague token]

maybe 3 different versions?

[modern tree]

we have a heli

its a good heli

I like it

[sharp wing]

[coral wren]

1 version is killing you fast, second super fast and the third one super super fast?

[vague token]

i mean they should be over time weapons

also isnt that helicopter the ASW one

for like 1 retro

[sharp wing]

1 version dies from any aa damage, second dies after 2 shots and hits enemy once, 3rd dies also after 2 hits, but also hits enemy twice

[wicked rivet]

etherstar moved

[modern tree]

its just Koln and it works like a worse sonar, yes

[wicked rivet]

lunch break is a good time to wait for list movement

[vague token]

xD

[wicked rivet]

oh lawd and he got a big seven right away

rng stahp

[sharp wing]

I mean, it's ww2

And that koln heli was like only serial production at the time

[modern tree]

but it launches at like 5 seconds for the first time and increases asw damage by a lot so you can just slay sub bosses in 15 seconds

[wicked rivet]

oh shit rlly

I should retro koln

[sharp wing]

Well, Koln skill does that

[modern tree]

cuz you get heli, then sonar tick and the boss is dead

[vague token]

huh

[modern tree]

yep

[wicked rivet]

or heli -> sonar -> chaser

[modern tree]

YOU GUYS WOULD KNOW IF YOU TREATED SUBS SERIOUSLY

LIKE ME

[sharp wing]

ohboi

[wicked rivet]

wdym I do sub shit all the time

[sharp wing]

i do boss drop maps

[wicked rivet]

i have a dedicated sub fleet with chaser in it

[modern tree]

I am actually germany rn

[sharp wing]

i have 2 sub fleets xD

mob and boss

Useless HMS DDs for mob

Well, basically u don't even need ASW for mob...

Just kill surface ships and that is

[vague token]

it's just a bit of ramming damage from subs anyways ;)

they move so slooooow

[sharp wing]

they do low damage on ram

and you can kill surface fast enough

But i just lvling those common HMS DD retroes

[wicked rivet]

hi germany rn I'm yuno

ASW is only useful for boss yea

I have uh

Leander, Foxhound, and Vampy

[sharp wing]

Hmm, Hyuuga melee artillery can actually target 2 suicide boats on 2 diff sides

[wicked rivet]

foxy is only level 80 and the others are like 105+

[sharp wing]

I have all common retroes

swap em around

they are 98+ atm

Sanrui gold project me again...

[wicked rivet]

oh god speaking of projects

time to farm for niizuki ajnother 4 times

[sharp wing]

That's...

Unbearable

[wicked rivet]

I

still dont have her

[sharp wing]

Me too

I've been doing all 6, 8, 9, 10 SOS since release and nothing

Not single boss ship

Increased rate my ass

[coral wren]

tfw you are at like sub level 3

[sharp wing]

I already have gold sonar, gold homing torp, t3 charges

[wicked rivet]

wtf

[vague token]

this russia cl gun is amusing me greatly on biscuit

[sharp wing]

lol

[wicked rivet]

I've been at 9/10 purple sonar for like

a month now

[coral wren]

What is single event french gun for

[wicked rivet]

over a month

[sharp wing]

DD

[wicked rivet]

for faest shooty

pew pew

[coral wren]

No, i mean which ship specifically wants it

[sharp wing]

any dd

[wicked rivet]

^

[vague token]

the single mle isnt that fast

[sharp wing]

It literraly best

[wicked rivet]

gdi

talking about sub warfare

and i took my sub fleet into 9-4

[sharp wing]

Only some of those that use 76

[wicked rivet]

[sharp wing]

will keep to that

[wicked rivet]

frenchy single isnt as fast as 76?

[sharp wing]

nah

[coral wren]

sub warfare in pvp

[vague token]

french single is slower than twin 127

[sharp wing]

and long salvo times

[coral wren]

[vague token]

it has 5 shots

at high base damage

it's like a super single 127

[wicked rivet]

oh whoa

[sharp wing]

and biggest FP boost

[wicked rivet]

i c

well yea

if it has no AA

[sharp wing]

ye

[wicked rivet]

tha makes sense

[vague token]

highest dps of all guns though cause of number of shots and base damage

[sharp wing]

and fp boost

[vague token]

and since it's HE

works on everything

xD

[wicked rivet]

so what youre saying is

put french DD gun on everyone

[vague token]

except low efficiency

it's a dps gun

[wicked rivet]

📝

[vague token]

no point using on aya lol

[sharp wing]

except barrageboats

or aya

[wicked rivet]

so

[vague token]

laffey likes it though

[wicked rivet]

yuki gets french gun

kawa gets french gun

[sharp wing]

yuki, nah

[vague token]

_>

[wicked rivet]

EVERYONE gets frrench gun

[sharp wing]

Yukie 76 pve, 100 pvp

z46 still better w/ 100

[wicked rivet]

wait

[sharp wing]

z23 probably too

[wicked rivet]

on a serious note

yeah z23 has good barrage

[vague token]

laffey would use 138 though

cause of her self reload

[wicked rivet]

yuki should have 100mm in pvp?

[vague token]

i use 100mm on ykk, adds 30 aa lol

[sharp wing]

laffey atm best used w/ 127 twin due to high af reload, Mle will make ehr even better

[wicked rivet]

a lot of her dmg is barrages tho

yea laffey gets 127 ez

[vague token]

ykk does more damage with just torps

[sharp wing]

100mm is pvp

[vague token]

and the main thing she does

is not die

so her damage is always higher than all vanguard

sunk ships do 0 dps

[sharp wing]

In pve just spam barrages w/ 76

[wicked rivet]

this is true

implying people change equips for pvp botes when switching to pve

[sharp wing]

2.5 sec faster barrages

Well

[wicked rivet]

[sharp wing]

It's like Sendais w/ single CL gun for pve

In PVP still 155

[wicked rivet]

📝

[sharp wing]

I mean, you seen their 6 salvo barrages?

That's about their main "Gun" dps

[wicked rivet]

https://tenor.com/view/guardians-of-the-galaxy-who-djimon-gaston-question-gif-12246976

[sharp wing]

http://p5.qhimg.com/t0174e8e867926168a3.gif

[vague token]

xD

[sharp wing]

pewpewpewpewpewpew

If you manual that shit in shotgunning

[wicked rivet]

o shit

pewpewpewpewpewpew

meanwhile

jintsuu is still hiding from me

I do have sendai tho

[sharp wing]

Well, all sendais have same barrage

[wicked rivet]

ye

[sharp wing]

Naka best fox

[wicked rivet]

too bad she has no retro

triple sendai fleet

OP

[sharp wing]

Well, someday, someday

[wicked rivet]

hopefully

wonder if uni can solo backline 9-4 boss

[sharp wing]

mmm

Aren't there some suicide boats?

[wicked rivet]

[sharp wing]

unless you manually ram all

[wicked rivet]

the BB shots do

less than 70 damage to her

LMAO

[sharp wing]

well

And she evades a lot

she has 78 luck

[wicked rivet]

she

might die

[sharp wing]

why would you use solo Uni for boss anyway

[wicked rivet]

nvm she's good

cause i didnt change fleets from doing the event

[sharp wing]

[wicked rivet]

lemme add anoterh backline

uhhhhhh

ise kai :^)

[sharp wing]

Uni and RNGer are damn sturdie CVLs tho

[wicked rivet]

dis is true

[sharp wing]

RNGer also has infinite damage possibilities

I had her do 400k with some op rng

But yr device might die from that plane hell, lol

I actually need to try her w/ new UI and 60 fps

When she chains 3-4 quick launches

[coral wren]

Ok, same 1st rank right after i got +1 from him

[wicked rivet]

Tfw person on my list moves

But needs to do one more exercise for +1

Exactly one more

[sharp wing]

my list ded

Also i had 34 diff few times...