whats kagamagi tho
#pvp
dusk bridge
nagato amagi kaga bb
ionic magnet
yea i cant really see nagato there
dusk bridge
i mean nagato is pretty much implied in every IJN backline
ionic magnet
not really
dry socket
wasda on OP tier 
buoyant parrot
good luck with the name... as long everyone knows whose specific backline we are talking about I wouldn't mind even if its abbreviation is the word "shit" itself
finite valve
wasd is a direct counter to nagaka which is what ppl are using 99% of the time
against BB comp they are about average
finite valve
i know
buoyant parrot
let me repost it for you
finite valve
my problem with baga is that we going to use her for around what 2 season at most?
dry socket
wasda's defenses are strong, but will crumble with a barrage proc from Nagato
finite valve
maybe even 1 with PR coming
buoyant parrot
There Take note testing is still on going of course.
Alright so I've been using Namabaka for quite some time now... Against fully oath Amakaga fleets so far out of 10 matches 1 lose due to crappy RNG...
Of course further testing is required, my Nagato's yellow skill is just Lv4 currently
I also had to battle a full oath WASDA fleet but only once... No lose... But I don't think that's a valid way to check it. Need further moooooooooore battles.
As far as I can tell it looks like Namabaka is an Opposite version of WASDA. More of like a very offensive BB line up
apparently the weak link in this line up or sort of a double edge bladed sword is BB Kaga... She's very strong "WHEN HER SKILLS PROC" but if its not you're sort of in the danger zone unless Nagato procs her skill. Also BB Kaga is so squishy.
I have to wait and see if Nagato's Lv10 yellow skills help
finite valve
i did read everything
and like i said how long are you going to use her with PR coming?
600 gem is not cheap for the casual you know
buoyant parrot
until PR Comes of course
besides PR ship will not be usefull in 2-3 months
good luck with that
ionic magnet
ether what rank are you rn
ionic magnet
i want to find a decent sparring partner xD
buoyant parrot
oh MR?
finite valve
most if not all def fleet are going to switch to nagaka or ryuu anyway
buoyant parrot
im at 1388 now
ionic magnet
rip i pushed to rank 900 just now
buoyant parrot
done fixing ship analysis text
hollow fractal
do you guys need any defensive teams for testing?
buoyant parrot
of course
should any of us in your PvP target let us know
so we can change defensive unit for you to test
ionic magnet
whats your ign lunatic
hollow fractal
inaba
ionic magnet
noted 
craggy cove
Touhou fans 👀
ionic magnet
wait avrora right?
buoyant parrot
you in Avrora right?
hollow fractal
yup!
void knot
He is in Avrora.
ionic magnet
void knot
I'm tempted to name my defense fleet after a Doujin.
hollow fractal
i'll keep an eye out for anyone here, my pvp team isn't fully 110 yet but should be soon
void knot
hollow fractal
which doujin?
ionic magnet
im looking for wasda specifically cos its the only one i havent tested hms with
void knot
I'll DM you the name.
hollow fractal
ok i can put up a wasda team, some ships need leveling though 
buoyant parrot
is any of you doing HMS right now aside from DAXAM? we need info about (HMS) WS?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BglmSOaD1ec8zc6bKwiItf2OcQueoRNxF3UGzlQnHBU/edit#gid=0
ionic magnet
my ws should be ready by next week
dry socket
Daxam is the HMS god in this server; none surpass him in knowledge of those specific fleet comps
dry socket
throw everything to him and wait for it to appear 
buoyant parrot
O shoot I take that back... I forgot my QE is just Lv100 w/200Affection
ionic magnet
i only fought a wasda once and its ugly
2 min fights lol
winrate is p good tho but need more testing
buoyant parrot
ionic magnet
you can maybe try hood doy ws
ionic magnet
ah yea
buoyant parrot
I don't think i have the luxury to spend more chips... Gonna save 4800 chips now for 120
void knot
I have well over 5000 chips.
vague token
yeesh sara's witch's prank is so overloaded with damage it isnt even funny
easily hits mvps with a zero and 2 comets
xD
dry socket
Sheffield was fine for me a few minutes ago, though Yukikaze's off
likely due to mobile formatting issues, oh well
real notch
hmm ya i just double checked
ionic magnet
i just copied those and changed the texts not my fault
buoyant parrot
I'll check it
real notch
i think nagato and amagi are pretty self-explanatory, we almost don't even need to explain those ones
but i think some people might be interested into knowing about sirius, sheffield, kawakze, etc.
real notch
@zenith tundra btw, comparing jintsuu to sirius, you also noticed sirius was better right?
leaden sequoia
desktop, Yukikaze 1st and 3rd row in Namaryuu looks like in densegenerate's ss in first 5 seconds but then fixes itself after google sheets fully loads
real notch
@modern tree hey what tier is sheffield on
ok, just added 4 ships into the Ship Analysis tab,
Sirius
Amagi
Sheffield
Kawakaze
Any guide editors feel free to write your comments and tier the above ships
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BglmSOaD1ec8zc6bKwiItf2OcQueoRNxF3UGzlQnHBU/edit?usp=sharing
vague token
i kinda feel like sheffield is better stall than like
belfast/juneau/ykk
but getting juneau to die at the right time is probably annoying
real notch
shef juneau YKKZ?
vague token
like i dunno
just gut
im using sheffield because im using an aggro CA because i want to
real notch
i think daxam already discussed that fleet in HMS fleets
real notch
it seems really good as long as the opponent is not foxes
then u can cut out belfast
so hopefully when namagi crowds out foxes from meta, we can stop using belfast and start using sheff
vague token
i actually dont bother with belfast against foxes now
cause if it's torp foxes
you already lost hp at the start
if it isnt
they lose a lot of steam
after the strike
so just use someone who can help after 10 seconds
instead of 25% smoke chance
dry socket
Sheff drops off a lot of strategic thinking for tanking
vague token
plus namagi has way higher odds of sniping a side fox anyways
dry socket
as you mentioned, getting Juneau to sink at the right time is difficult
dry socket
T1 is where she belongs; a minor flaw with overall powerful aspects
real notch
i also tiered kawakaze at T1
real notch
since she boost torp efficiency from 80% --> 115% against light armor (basically all VG)
vague token
at 100 sheffy is 60 aa higher than belfast
so she can tough it out against foxes
only newcastle gets higher AA
xD
honestly town class is barely a class lol
buoyant parrot
also take note your analyzation should be in a PvP environment not PvE
hollow fractal
is sendai and aurora redundant on a nagato/fox fleet?
the frontline i've been using is sendai ykkz aurora and i didn't see it on the google doc so maybe i'm doing something wrong
dry socket
If it works for you, it works
Sendai's flare is great versus Belfast
and Aurora's debuff does help a ton
hollow fractal
ah i see, i was looking at that one, and i guess didn't see it since the third is jintsuu rather than yukikaze
buoyant parrot
vague token
the thing with nagato and foxes
is that you're already glass
and using ykk to % boost glass
doesnt get much rate of return
compared to going all in with jintsuu deeps
or sirius i think
you'd have to read those
though
xD
dry socket
Jintsuu is also easily run over
Yukikaze would work well as a miniature stall when all goes wrong—which definitely will
when you're throwing your fragile Sendai and Jintsuu into PvP
hollow fractal
i guess i could swap aurora to jintsuu, i like having yukikaze on fleet since she usually is the last one surviving and can redirect enemy fox bombs
dry socket
that damage reduction won't keep her running for long
^^
It's best for someone to keep stalling the foxes
Jintsuu-Aurora-Sendai would be shredded from some RNG-blessed attacks
hollow fractal
ya sometimes it's hard for me to tell whether a match is win or loss without her so i just reset for safety
dry socket
Survivability is important—the reason why you can find Yukikaze everywhere, even in jp
is due to that powerful aspect of hers
Yukikaze-Aurora-Sendai/Jintsuu (<lets you focus on either torpedo damage or backline hits)
full-offensive vanguard isn't going to last long in our current PvP meta
vague token
it's bruiser time!
dry socket
real notch
aurora sendai is in there
it's one of the VG options
for nakaga
there's also sirius, aurora sendai
YKKZ aurora sendai
bot hwork
hollow fractal
leveling ships to 110 is such a pain, 120 is gonna suck
vague token
more concerned with gold income for PR X_x
dry socket
more concerned about ibuki-ayanami-jintsuu
vague token
i mean, the solution is just saint louis, leander or w/e smoke, ykk
tank torp opener
vague token
gun them down
real notch
i was big baka
vague token
oh noooo
real notch
i turned off my brain and just accepted all the rewards
vague token
real notch
but i caught myself like 2 rewards in
and i was like shit wait
i still have i think 2k in training oil
also i got trade license so
vague token
ah\
dry socket
if your RNG is a big cow, then the torps will turn Saint Louis from a pool of HP into burning metal
random vault
i mean your progress will still be stalled by trying to obtain the research bps
real notch
oh ya i looked at those research missions
vague token
otherwise the torps dont do much
real notch
they don't look that bad
halcyon hill
Even if you get all 6 PRs on the 1st day you still gotta wait like 2 months
hazy rain
are you discussing defense or offense?
real notch
just clear a map 5 times or like do commissions or whatnot
random vault
so hoarding oil is not that necessary imo
vague token
like rng on rng right there
random vault
unless u wanna lv the pr to 120 before dev 30 or something
hazy rain
I really want to level a Kawakaze now
to give aids to enemies running all those cancerous CLs 
at least once every 20 battles
real notch
LOL 
charred sable
Odd data point lol
real notch
wait are you reading the ship info on the guide
it's not complete yet
lol
why is juneau alive
charred sable
There were many weird things about that fight lol
hazy rain
she refuses to die 
random vault
juneau: it looks like my role is to die
also juneau: daga kotawaru
random vault
where do u see that?
charred sable
Note to self: do not use chapter 10 SOS missions for grinding Nagato
vague token
oh god
real notch
yea holy shit
i was surprised at how hard that map was
i just did it too
ended up using nagato, akashi, hiryuu, phoenix
lament lichen
ch 10 SOS wasnt that hard
modern tree
HELLO, when it comes to Sheff, she is rather fucking tanky and her high AA lets her thrive against both heavy battleship comps and carriers. Her buff being independent from her means you can abuse her thick HP pool to tank for your other boats and feel no remorse for her sinking early-ish holding pearl. Her offense is nothing to scoff at, with decent torp efficency boosting up her average torp stat and her gun with barrage packing a hefty, albeit not super reliable punch, she ends up performing quite well as a wildcard, especially under QE buff.
modern tree
I think the fact that she makes ykkz rather silly tanky and isnt a deadweight in most comps puts her at comfortable 1 you can put her at 0 because dem legs
real notch
modern tree
you could list the event ship is from under Available, tbh
real notch
wait what
modern tree
in Ship Analysys you have a row that says Available and every single one of the ships has YES there
I just thought it looks weird
so I figured you can at least put the abbreviated name of the event ship comes from
vague token
maybe you could do a like Flex Slot analysis too
real notch
oh, yea i was planning for future
in case we ever review upcoming ships
but yea sure we can remove that
zenith tundra
sirius better for nakaga? then jintsuu
real notch
i think not many people will need it anyways
shy hazel
pretty much dont need jintsu cos enemy vg will sink anyways
real notch
so apparently sirius is good enough to push 70% winrate even with 20% dmg boost
flex slot analysis?
shy hazel
at least
real notch
yea sure u mean like
shy hazel
in nakaga fleeet rn
zenith tundra
what's are the other 2 slots?
vague token
i mean namagi can consider other options in the third
shy hazel
aurora nanoda
for me
nanoda is just there for u know sustain
dont even need sendai tbh
vague token
course not all main fleets have a flex xD
real notch
i just needa find it
zenith tundra
sirius aurora yukikaze was my initial test against namaryuu. i remember losing 2 and another 2 close matches and 5 wins
modern tree
nani
vague token
UI OPTIMIZATION yo
modern tree
maint is after reset, and its like half an hour
buoyant parrot
and yet again... I'm poorer than a POTATO...
vague token
oh no
hot creek
meanwhile im here wondering what to spend my gold on
since im above softcap and nat regen is wasting
buoyant parrot
Its hard for I need to keep my ranking in FP
and that means constant gold drain
vague token
oof
buoyant parrot
hot creek
there still a couple days left before shop is gone
modern tree
exchange stays for like a week after every event
so the shop will be there
or at least its meant to be there
random vault
oh yea i forgot that one 
modern tree
the dailies and stage rewards will be gone tho
buoyant parrot
I think Juneau, Yukikaze, Jintsuu is not that good with Namabaka...
I have to replace Jintsuu with Belfast... Its more efficient
the reason behind it is because Juneau dies so fast that it triggers heal prematurely
and having to put Jintsuu infront is pointless
well that's as far as my observation for the past 30 fights with this set up
Jintsuu is becoming irrelevant
vague token
there's a lot of bulk around so burst gets hit hard
buoyant parrot
but again I will have to do further more testing... I think Nagato's yellow skill at max will give maybe a different result
buoyant parrot
basically the tactic is Juneau sacrifice should only occur on the 2nd wave of planes
unfortunately because you have to put Jesus in front for you to be able to position Jintsuu at the back is somewhat costly...
and just for Jintsuu to torp more... I don't think its efficient
well reload at least?
I'm leaning towards that idea replacing Jintsuu... She's not too beneficial at this moment as far as my test is concern.
I'd probably replace her with Belfast and maybe get better result...
put Bel in front and Jesus at back then Yukikaze Mid
charred sable
Yukikaze should always be mid
you want her to survive the longest to minimize damage to your backline for the inevidible backline vs backline showdown
modern tree
That's wrong tho. If you assume the torps are gonna make any impact on your vg, which you sort of have to atm, your tank will die and then ykkz mid will be tanking and eating all the subsequent torps. Her place is in the back. Nowhere else. Ever
vague token
i put her off tank if it's a torp comp
since they like to splash middle
if it isnt jintsuu torp it's fine
xD
blazing scroll
tfw you put juneau in the middle but dies first
arctic imp
buoyant parrot
@charred sable Yukikaze is IN mid if you read the convo
real notch
@buoyant parrot i adde sirius, kawakaze, sheffield, amagi notes into ship analysis
buoyant parrot
When Juneau is at MID she dies 2nd which is the most ideal circumstances for me. However since Yukikaze is with us now I'd preffer Yukikaze at mid
real notch
feel free to add in your thoughts 
buoyant parrot
okay 
real notch
and ye i put juneau mid too
blazing scroll
Who's in the front if ykk is mid?
buoyant parrot
Juneau is in my mid all the time if you watch my live stream PvP... Well that change after Yukikaze came in
real notch
sry i'm not following conversation but
shy hazel
k i guess its time
real notch
belfast front, if no belfast jintsuu
spring citrus
shy hazel
blazing scroll
I was wondering what Etherst would use in the front when ykk is in the middle
real notch
real notch
actually if you sacrifice your front ship, your middle ship will become your front
shy hazel
aurora in front
real notch
which is generally the case
shy hazel
with pearl
real notch
because the front ship eats opening torps, amagi barrage and fox
so u just leave her for dead
and then middle ship becomes "new front"
that's my logic
for fitting YKKZ back
because if you put her mid, and your front dies
blazing scroll
Same for me
real notch
YKKZ will eat future torps
and everything a "front" normally eats
so my positioning is:
belfast --- juneau --- YKKZ
blazing scroll
I often use a disposable ship in the front like belfast or sendai
blazing scroll
Because they will die quickly anyway
shy hazel
leaden sequoia
shy hazel
domodesu
real notch
shy hazel
👀
shy hazel
need source to be legit
real notch
depending on movement
wdym
ohh
i have no idea
who did that
lol
u can check document change history
but i only gave edit perms to #pvp regulars or knowledgeable people
not everyone
shy hazel
lets see
leaden sequoia
so in general it's RNG
real notch
yea it's RNG
leaden sequoia
but for opening torps it's nearly always tank that eats them
leaden sequoia
umu
real notch
and then the positioning will remain until the VG moves backwards
in which the "tank" spot will flip
and also at the start of a battle, VGs always move forward
so 2 reasons
@shy hazel cyaneko? 
btw cyan did u ever use sirius
aw 
are u serious? i've been at like
3 yellow books since march
fukin 2x yellow skill sendai
shy hazel
ask neko to put name
real notch
ok sweet, when u get some experience with her can u write an analysis of her
and then tier her
blazing scroll
I was thinking about doing that yeah
real notch
i have experience AGAINST sirius but i'm too lazy to raise her lol
mines only 100 max skills
blazing scroll
Jesus tier
real notch
ahh i guess i could write something on juneau too
ionic magnet
how do you guys tier individual ships anyway
i mean sirius is good and all but theres no way shes on amagi/nagatos level
t1 at best
blazing scroll
I would put it indeed lower, because she is used with cv's only
Might put aurora in her place instead
buoyant parrot
Jesus died for you sins~
real notch
i'd like to let people who use sirius tier her
lime rivet
Using her right now. Her barrage is...surprisingly useful
ionic magnet
yea i used her for a while and well shes good with foxes but aurora is still better than her
real notch
so whoever uses a ship often and knows her ins/outs could give the best analysis on it
buoyant parrot
can't rate sirious I don't use her
real notch
but yea if u guys think she's tier 1 let's make the change
after all i put the tier 0 and i don't even use sirius
blazing scroll
ionic magnet
lime rivet
I would concur with t1
real notch
so my tiering is just a placeholder
also, kawakaze tiering pls
that one is also placeholder
ionic magnet
alright gotcha
buoyant parrot
If she's T0 you'll see a lot of pople using her but no.
real notch
that's true
there is always evidence of meta discovery though
like, i think people ran wasde mirrors with triple 406mm for at least 3-4 weeks until someone finally said "hey why don't we try twin 410mm"
then in 2 weeks the enterprise duels disappeared
yea torp memes are not reliable
idk i feel like i might be bias on not liking torp-based ships
blazing scroll
I am kinda amazed people were that slow
real notch
notice the lack of ayanami in the tierlist
blazing scroll
I had my SD on 410 pretty quickly after finding out about the lucky e duals
real notch
i did do a quick check of top 100 in game
like literally 40% of the top 100 use amakaga and have ayanami in it
idk why aya is so popular
blazing scroll
Glass cannon eh 
real notch
ya ikr
leaden sequoia
big damage numbers
real notch
i was going off someone's advice ( i think it was patchy) but kawakaze really gives aya a run for her money
leaden sequoia
and big fleet power numbers
real notch
115% armor efficiency against light armor (basically all VG) and aya opening torp doesn't even have demon proc
leaden sequoia
pvp is also a place to show off, we should not forget that
real notch
ye that's true, kawakaze nerfs herself from 130% --> 115% against heavy armor
leaden sequoia
still would be better idea to only use her against CV and BC
real notch
yup, well
yea aya doesn't usually make it to backline in defense
but can sometimes RNG opening torp backline
blazing scroll
Found something interesting
leaden sequoia
full HMS
real notch
poggers
leaden sequoia
that's a rare sight
blazing scroll
Aurora can be used with bbs tho
real notch
perfect as in +10 BiS maxed 200 affection
blazing scroll
To increase hit
buoyant parrot
THAT'S A GOOD TEST SUBJECT!
real notch
he's level 85 so the fleet is probably not perfect
buoyant parrot
awww
blazing scroll
Sadly the only good lvled fleet I have is wasda
buoyant parrot
he prolly doesn't have propper gears
real notch
uhh yea good idea
wait i'm surprised daxam put
jintsuu aurora juneau for an HMS VG
i guess he highly values juneau since all 3 have juneau
maybe we'll add another variation.... let's see...
blazing scroll
I am not sure about jintsuu tho
real notch
sheff bel juneau?
blazing scroll
Feels out of place
real notch
or sheff bel aurora
blazing scroll
Was thinking about something like that too
Juneau if you really want/need the healing
Aurora for increased hit rate I guess
real notch
i can see why tho, juneau is best in slow-pace BB fleets
blazing scroll
The only thing is the hp of everyone
If you want to use sheffields skill
Juneau would easily get the buff but bel has a lot more hp
ionic magnet
thats quite low for an hms backline
real notch
oh ya, good point
hazy rain
in my opinion Juneau is always tier 0 unless you are doing burst memes 
ionic magnet
should be around 13.7k if maxed
leaden sequoia
Sheff could make Jun too tanky to use her heal at the right time, but then again, Hood/QE/DoY is a slow-paced backline as req said, so that might actually be beneficial for prolonged battles
blazing scroll
Maybe swap bel for fortune or leander?
buoyant parrot
when you encounter mine let me know... I need to check positioning of VG
buoyant parrot
buoyant parrot
X__x
ionic magnet
what rank
buoyant parrot
stuck at 1522
ionic magnet
im at 1320
real notch
i use sendai and she's disappointing
but prolly cus my expectations were super high
blazing scroll
I think sendai can be useful just not the best
What makes her good is the torp buff + flare
But using her for just the flare idk
shy hazel
according to other server -ers
lime rivet
Oh wow, Georgia's barrage.
shy hazel
shell be good when CAs becomes a thing
buoyant parrot
where?
lime rivet
buoyant parrot
WTF!!!!
ionic magnet
oof
blazing scroll
Justice rains from above
real notch
uss will retake tier 0 throne
buoyant parrot
SHE'S FREAKING OP like sort of Massachusetts
buoyant parrot
X_____x
shy hazel
lol
buoyant parrot
is that AP Shells?
blazing scroll
AP which good against bbs
shy hazel
i think they're just trying it on normal mode sirens
buoyant parrot
shiet....
lime rivet
It's the new JP barrage preview function
real notch
yea ap shells armor pierce now
shy hazel
but well
real notch
could be a thing 
shy hazel
the barrage really looks pinpoint
buoyant parrot
well I've been using AP Gun on my 3rd BB for the longest time now
ionic magnet
it hits all backline too 
buoyant parrot
X___x
real notch
monster AA and SSR statline
real notch
never kek
real notch
honestly though i'd say at least 6 months
blazing scroll
Another year of nagato hell
buoyant parrot
regarding the new Feature
I don't even know if I'm still sticking to HMS right after I saw that feature
I had a lot of MAX USS ships compare to HMS and IJN...
blazing scroll
My USS ships are also more lvled over the others
I am still lvling my foxes to 110
buoyant parrot
analog hare
not even using fox
shy hazel
anyways
just focus on en ppl
go fix that wiki
i mean pvp guide
finally my hiryuu 100
real notch
real notch
yo
georgia skill just got translated
george - decrease main gun dispersion+ increase dmg against CA superC bb bc bbv, 80% barrage every time main gun fire
ionic magnet
80%
real notch
fuck me that's fire
buoyant parrot
80 fucking PERCENT?!
real notch
again with the dispersion mechanic
ionic magnet
and it looked like its guaranteed crit
real notch
and increased DMG
buoyant parrot
X____________x dope and broke
buoyant parrot
judging by the animation if you saw the orange shells it focuses on one target area
buoyant parrot
yeah its pretty much like Warspite BAZOOKA thingy in terms of damage out burst
I guess we have now justice rain for anti shit this is USS ver.
shy hazel
if shes as tenacious as sd
she can most likely tank ws kai despacito first strike
then shell kill ws after
buoyant parrot
im sacred for the future 
shy hazel
there will be that time en will be in sync at least in features to other servers
at least en gets to prepare more after other servers "test" it
real notch
i'm not looking at all of the reveals but
there's people translating the datamine in #gameplay-help right now
so far only georgia seems interesting
waiting for the rest to be translated
gasco is a PVE ship
fdc unclear, seems like a PVE ship
buoyant parrot
I'm going to change my Fleet name to "1=I, 2=think 3=you // 1=need 2=some 3=democracy"
blazing scroll
Lmao
lime rivet
FdG pve for sure
blazing scroll
I was expecting something like this to happen, because the USS was left out on an OP ship
shy hazel
cuccing germany in pvp
lime rivet
Her barrage looks a bit underwhelming
blazing scroll
Germany needs one too
real notch
the 6x torp for kitakaze seems pretty cool
and the spread for those torps are insanneelyyyy thin
judging by the speed they're prolly mags
lime rivet
Yeah, but tight spread torps in pvp means you're gonna miss the lot of 'em if you're unlucky
shy hazel
nvm i cant say anything about belfast right now
nagato is here so belfast mist may as well be null
in offense
real notch
yea, either u get lucky and ur REALLY lucky
or u get unlucky and fire torps at bottom corner of screen
but it's a barrage
lime rivet
Or see them swim harmlessly between backliners
real notch
so that's interesting
since it's a barrage i doubt the dmg modifier is high
it's probably like
1k dmg per torp max
i hope i'm wrong
shy hazel
if the dmg is the same as aya torp barrage
its acceptable
shes supposed to be the super torp dd of ijn
real notch
yea, i hope they're mags for that reason
cus the mags would make it much more viable in PVP
buoyant parrot
ew... the KMS is so disgustingly weak...
real notch
ok, i'm reviewing the tiering for the new ships in the guide, i'll just give my thoughts on them..
ayanami - agree on T2
belfast - imo T0, since foxes still prevalent in meta
aurora - agree on T1, previously T0 when amakaga ruled
YKKZ - T0 obviously
Jintsuu - T0 i'm ok with, T1 works too
Juneau - agree T0 jesus
buoyant parrot
Jintsuu IMO T1
ionic magnet
yea t1 for me aswell
buoyant parrot
hmmm... can't say for now but I'm also on the side of T0 for now coz she's beefy and there's a lot of Foxes still as of the current meta
ionic magnet
i might be biased but i think bel-jun-ykkz is the best VG rn
so id rate those 3 as t0
real notch
^
that's my thinking too
belfast juneau YKKZ spits out some amazing winrates
ok i'll write something on belfast
shy hazel
so
decide on Ayanami's tier
i just made akagi / kaga tier 1
cos they're tier 2 when alone
tier 0 when together
or we can copy how jp/cn guide does it
and make even their descriptions a pair
ofc bb kaga should have separate
though i cant say abouthing about bb kaga cos i didnt use her
real notch
Oh my god shoot me plz
buoyant parrot
feels like BB-Kaga at T2
buoyant parrot
but I don't know... T1 maybe
shy hazel
let's think about it
kagabb has less survivability than wash
but has greater barrage dmg than wash
but less proc rate
buoyant parrot
coz she's pretty much a meh when alone and questionable with the RNG
shy hazel
she's either tier 1 or 2
buoyant parrot
but its strong its just that... so RNG
shy hazel
we'll need Zack's opinion for it
real notch
i think zack already mentioned T2/T1
ionic magnet
i want to say t1 cos i fought her in zacks def fleet before but t2 is fine too
shes really good at sniping foxes tho
real notch
ayy lmao
lime rivet
For the convo about Georgia earlier:
Georgia
Iron Sight Caliber
Decrease main gun spread by 3. damage is increased by 20% against heavy cruisers and BBs.
Heavy Barrel Blaster
80% chance to launch a special barrage when firing main gun. Guaranteed crit on barrage, damage is dependant on skill level
real notch
lime rivet
eat your heart out HMS
real notch
guaranteed crit 
buoyant parrot
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Guaranteed CRIT damn son
real notch
i guess there were some translation errors
white shell georgia? wtf
but she only does increased dmg to BBs
so amagi's safe i guess
what the fuck
20% though
holy
lime rivet
Unless Amagi's considered a BB in mechanics
buoyant parrot
well there you have it folks... We will be spreading the wings of freedom/democracy 6 months from now then~
real notch
wait doesn't white shell increase crit dmg
ionic magnet
georgia warspite amagi/hiryuu new meta? pog
shy hazel
wait for them to dig more data
real notch
i think that was black
fukin true
holy
georgia and warspite kai
wwhat the fuk is this power creep
buoyant parrot
and the fact that we where just talking about NEXT META Anti Warspite Kai and Hiryuu then poof we have now Georgia lol~
shy hazel
they might as well put new ships in en
real notch
it's like a sakura big seven
buoyant parrot
just look at this KMS disgusting weakling....
https://imgur.com/7gNBSpt
ionic magnet
maybe they announced pr1 ships early so they can announce pr2 also
real notch
kek
buoyant parrot
what a load of disappointment lol
shy hazel
u can farm chips for pr 1 and 2 in same time
different comms to take
if u have gold
buoyant parrot
I have a gem for GOLD
real notch
btw stella u tiered foxes at 1 but in the description you put tier 2
shy hazel
i mean
that's the middle point of 2 and 0
👀
oh ill copy what someone did to
aurora
real notch
ohh LOOL u averaged it
that's what i thought u mightve been doing
we can always increase column width
idk if that might fuk up the ship avatars tho
seems ok i think
wait nvm my ocd is acting up
these ships are not centered 
ionic magnet
shy hazel
add non meta ships later
for alternative ships
like fortune
etc etc
basically ships for poverty
real notch
kkkk sounds good to me
ionic magnet
i'll add hms ships in a bit
shy hazel
ionic magnet
and make daxam angry
buoyant parrot
I fix the Sheffy image
real notch
daxam is already angry after u guys were saying "eat shit HMS"
buoyant parrot
I am also correcting the color background of icons
real notch
yea i mean why not
it shouldn't be too long right
it's basically just
check PVP as often as possible
and fight leftmost opponent
real notch
amirite
real notch
ya sure, i'm down for that
cus people will definitely ask
i think the more questions we can answer in the doc the better
real notch
oh ya, don't forget to say
"the ultimate sandbagging guide CREATED BY FORMER 5/6/7 TIME AOTN VETERAN PLAYERS!!!!"
real notch
jkjk
buoyant parrot
there fix
real notch
i will read that guide cus i suck at sandbagging
btw, do u guys think the 1st tab of the doc is good enough for public?
AKA the tierlist tab
buoyant parrot
not yet
there are still fleet that are in testing
we want it to be like out of that phase before we show it to public
buoyant parrot
yeah and its hard I'm the only one that I know of doing the Namabaka right now
real notch
yea ... ik
i wish i could help but my kaga bb is not even close
LOL
phew, that ones not me 
ionic magnet
buoyant parrot
definitely not me... I sendai and sirous 😂
real notch
oh btw
when we release this guide
be ready for the criticism
pretty sure people are just gonna start going "yo why isn't xxx in x tier" or "you missed this VG combination"
yea, i have 1 currently, we can work off of that
DISCLAIMER:
1. Tiering is based on overall (weighted average) WINRATE against current meta environment fleets... considerations for speed of exercise (with foxes, Ibuki, Jean bart etc.) will be noted but not considered.
2. Current EN environment fleets ONLY. Priority will focus on the most common and threatening fleets. Guide will refer to updated date above.
3. While there are some exceptions, highest winrate offense fleet = highest winrate defense fleet. Considerations will be noted.
mogami is an interesting option but
shy hazel
anyways ill do the sandbag guide when im inspired
real notch
a couple reasons
- defensive VGs currently outperform offensive VGs
- FP boosting anything (other than BB shelling) is traditionally a fairly ineffective buff
- CAs are still not at the "golden zone" of 70-80 base EVA yet - they still melt to torps and airstrikes
buoyant parrot
@charred sable
real notch
to elaborate on the "golden zone" because there are diminishing returns for eHP given additional points of EVA, you don't really fall off effectiveness until 80+ EVA
that's why CLs dominate meta because they sit at a comfy ~75 EVA on average
(also because they have great support skills)
real notch
yea i'm quite looking forward to PR wheel
basically enables any 1 CA of your choice lol
hazy rain
Mogami Kai is about as tough if not tougher than most meta CLs except Belfast
real notch
i can ping gurren, does that count
shy hazel
cos he also knows hms
real notch
ok we can evaluate this carefully, so mogakai vs meta CLs - let's define meta CLs
sendai
aurora
Juneau
sirius
belfast
"tough" is not the trait that catapults these ships into "meta"
all of these ships have 1 thing in common
hazy rain
they are all either stall or burst
real notch
they have a skill that supports backline
buoyant parrot
Keripo is a fine specimen for my experiment. All oathed
real notch
which leads us to the conclusion of current PVP
blazing scroll
Except bel, she helps vg
real notch
PVP matchers are decided by backline ships, not frontline
buoyant parrot
Though Nagato is just 91
real notch
the more your VG can support backline, the more "meta" they become
hazy rain
the stall ones have good AA, all IJN have trash AA
hazy rain
on frontline
blazing scroll
blazing scroll
I would count it under vg support
real notch
as mentioned, PVP is a backline-centered meta rn
backline is responsible for all 6 kills
in a match
so if belfast can help prevent 3 of those kills, then she is catapulted into meta
mogami kai, while having great stats and FP, doesn't contribute to backline presence which is partly the reason why she is not a "good" ship
of course, you can still win PVP matches with mogami kai
hazy rain
my gut tells me she is tier 2
hazy rain
nor is Sheffield
blazing scroll
I would rather have portland than mogami
shy hazel
at least ill add helena portkai and fortune
hazy rain
I think Portland is decent too
shy hazel
Tier 2 or 3
blazing scroll
Because of defense order
blazing scroll
Should Leander be added too?
real notch
helping explain why both shefffield and YKKZ are honorable mentions
blazing scroll
Poor mans belfast
shy hazel
leander should be Tier 3
lunar halo
Wtf i got obliterated in 23 seconds, when i launched the battle i didn't looked for 5 seconds and my vanguard was already dead how is that possible ??? I had Belfast yukikaze and sirius
shy hazel
how low will the tiers go anyways
lime rivet
@lunar halo what was the othet guy running?
hazy rain
Yukikaze is freaking tankier than Portland unless they debuff her with Aurora/Sendai
lunar halo
Juneau ayanami and Belfast i think
lime rivet
Then akaga wiped you
lunar halo
lmao
lunar halo
My vanguard died in the first 5 seconds
hazy rain
and Yukikaze has respsectable torp damage, which allows her ceiling to be scary
lime rivet
Yeah
lunar halo
ayanami never did this when i used to use her in pvp 
lime rivet
Both vanguards going into melee range at thr start of the match, then Ayanami fucks you over
hazy rain
torp vanguard is a defense meme
real notch
actually, ayanami defense tends to land more convincing torps than offense
because enemy is actually closer to your backline than you are to his
hot creek
torp squad on defense isnt a meme. torps literally have a range advantage on defense
hazy rain
torps will never be as deadly on attack as on defense
hazy rain
the good meme
real notch
christ look at these potentially op ass gear
so much new stuff to get acquainted with
hazy rain
real notch
15k fleetpower backlines? hook me up baby
shy hazel
last time we tested
blazing scroll
When will we get rainbow AA gear
blazing scroll
I got way too many plates
shy hazel
im getting tired of these purple guns anyways why not
charred sable
@buoyant parrot I can use 4 attacks right now if you want
shy hazel
gold torp bulg when
charred sable
check if it'll give you bonus
buoyant parrot
@charred sable I don't mind
Im using your line up for my testing phase
So here's the summary I'm almost done
charred sable
@buoyant parrot keep in mind my setup is underlvled
charred sable
letme know if you want me to switch it to BIS Amagi + foxes
real notch
i'm actually hella stoked to see what stella will write in the guide
buoyant parrot
switch to your most best max lv oath unit if you can
real notch
wait where'd the tab go 
charred sable
or WASD