Jesus also has anti air mode 
#pvp
stark raft
buoyant parrot
stop adding EXPLANATIONS for the meantime... Ima fix the text now. Give me 10mins
elder crane
Once we get the fleet upgrading thingy, it might be that PvE fleets aren't quite sharable anymore
Which is pretty sad
stark raft
so namagi, mutsu + bel/sandy/jesus?
elder crane
Cause everyone will be at a different boost amount, so a fleet might work/not work with one person and work with another in PvE
split socket
@elder crane ez, just lvl everyone to 120 
stark raft
maximum flak and shells
elder crane
Then tell all the newbies, "get good, scrub!"
blazing scroll
What else
split socket
what, you can't run w13 with lb 0 cassin? 
elder crane
I imagine the effect will be at most meowficer level though
split socket
it's a shame it doesn't apply to pvp, I thought my fleet building effort was finally going to pay off
elder crane
Ah, but they can just cap scaling like with dorm comfort
split socket
can finally wall nabs, but noooo yostar wants pvp to stay casual mode z_z
but I want to wall off top 100 nabs
elder crane
Say, the collection rewards alone already bring to most of the stat bonus
then all additional stuff, is like maxing all ships for another 1%
buoyant parrot
DONE... Go ahead and continue~
elder crane
Dorm comfort is that way now, what with 30+ more comfort needed to just go up 1% at 80+%
Erm, the note/question I added got unhighlighted, was that intended?
I left it red cause It was unfinished
81% for us who oathed ships, I think
buoyant parrot
Guys don't post your questions on the EXCEL Project lol. Ask here damn it! ๐
elder crane
"Is it possible to add split images for vanguards with different options but the same idea and how matches play out? Sirius substituted in here bascially has same idea."
on a Nakaga setup
analog hare
let me contribute to equipment
elder crane
Cause like full offensive setup for Nakaga is basically, Sirius, Jintsuu, Sendai, Aurora, pick 3 of the 4
stark raft
Still waiting on HMS enthusiast daxam
buoyant parrot
Bluerendar might want to ask Daxam about it he's HMS and focus on Sirious AFAIK
elder crane
I've a not-yet-200aff Sirius too, will test at some point
Yeah, lower RNG with not relying on torps
Sendai imo should only be run vs Belfast in that setup
Alone, flare placement introduces RNG
But with Bel opposing, the flare and Smoke almost always near-perfect overlap, and so actually reduces RNG
Sirius is %dmg too, no?
Not %avi
Nope, I misremembered
I swear it used to say dmg
Then again, it also used to say hit not hitrate before the skill description overhaul
buoyant parrot
backup complete
elder crane
She's the first ship you add though, first ship is flag
buoyant parrot
for now I believe yes, @real notch hasn't set restriction yet. That's why O oblige people to make backup just incase someone form #degenral YOLO's our project.
elder crane
flag/top/bottom is how it's displayed in game
elder crane
Oh you're right
Then we need to standardize on one
zenith tundra
sirre didnt think that far
buoyant parrot
will fix it as we go as what we've talk about
elder crane
Hmm, based on WaSDA majority says top/flag/bottom
split socket
I like top/flag/bot as well
elder crane
Majority in 3 
I prefer following the way its given in game
Oh man just realized I used wrong email XD
split socket
also nakaga is missing sirius / aurora / sendai
zenith tundra
i dont think that vg is that good
split socket
might not be the best, but should still be valid. Not that I can test it though since both aurora and sendai on my end is still lvl 90ish
buoyant parrot
also added stupid description for plebians of #degeneral
elder crane
I've all three 110 max skill oathed, only aurora at 200 aff though
elder crane
It's a kill-them-first setup
split socket
^
zenith tundra
kill 1st u almost lose to amakaga
split socket
I don't expect u to get it since u've been using juneau on fox comps lol
buoyant parrot
Should Kaga be on Top when Nagato is Flag??? isn't that same logic for Namaga????
elder crane
Or you can call it, "dead things can't hurt you"
ykkz, especially with belfast and jun almost negates it though
elder crane
Baga is filler compared to other two
Hiryuu can/wants to take the heat
buoyant parrot
I'm Adding nagabaga
elder crane
If we could, Nagato wouldn't be flag
But she needs flag for buff so 
buoyant parrot
tho not gonna add if its OP Tier since its still on testing until we see full Nagato tomorrow
zenith tundra
i have both lvl 8 rn
elder crane
though it's enough already now to get a taste of it
I think the bigger problem is, who has a maxed BB Kaga to test with?
zenith tundra
not oathed for me
elder crane
Mine's still lv85 and 50 affection
At least halfway there on skills
split socket
my kaga bb would've been if not for the first exp wipe
gave up on her after that <_<
elder crane
EXP wipe got reverted iirc
split socket
not the 1st one
buoyant parrot
My BB Kaga is ready. Just give us 3 more days for Lv10 Yellow skills so I can fully test
zenith tundra
elder crane
Well, time for a break, cya all
buoyant parrot
don't mind the plebians... They'll get finish product when we're done
zenith tundra
we should ask sirre to block editing for ppl not from pvp
stark raft
there is like only the same 10 ppl here anyway
buoyant parrot
I made a BackUp Zack
incase the #degeneral YOLO's our project
well for the excel TIER list at least
make a backup for the other tabs as well that would be nice
elder crane
Oh, also, any thoughts on potentially Sheffield over Belfast in stall setup?
split socket
This comp name needs some consistency
Namagaryuu (?)
Namaryuu
Namagiryuu
Tenryuumon (ๅคฉ็ซ้)
elder crane
NamagiH is my preferred
split socket
EN plebs 
stark raft
Sheff is hms staple
versed atlas
another day of no nagato
stark raft
should wait for Daxam on that though
split socket
I think hes the only one even running Sheff ๐
elder crane
Mine's just at lv100aff for the sec mission
stark raft
I have 110 sheff no oath
elder crane
Maxed blue skill at least
buoyant parrot
on the TIER Unrated 1st entry that's mine... Leave it there I'll test it for the longest time
versed atlas
wtf i just got rekt in pvp
had to restart
wtf
i haven't had to restart in so long
elder crane
It happens
split socket
ur now banned from pvp channel for losing. GG bb
versed atlas
i have 2300 chips plus whatever you can get from th eeven tstore
elder crane
Event was very generous, yeah
Ok, I really should leave now
zenith tundra
save chips for 120
split socket
that's what I've been doing but coin is a problem :x
split socket
it'd be a while left for 120, if we get the announcement early we'd probably be able to save up during the period between announcement and patch day
zenith tundra
6k chips takes 40 days from daily alone...
buoyant parrot
look at this Warspite full of dust in my dock
you're almost ready for 120. 2.3M EXP
stark raft
I take my warspacito out sometimes to insta blow up a hiryuu or two
split socket
oh shit lol, I thought the chips required was much lower
going from 110 -> 120 for SSR requires 1,6k chips
buoyant parrot
oh 1.6k chips was it???
shit... gotta focus which one's priority from now on >__<
zenith tundra
only because jp ppl swim in chips 1yr after they got 120 doesnt mean we can just waste them now...
split socket
yea, my bad. I actually didn't know it was that high lol
buoyant parrot
well~~~~~~ I just remember you say to me the other day... There's no harm in making BB Kaga Lv110 we have 3k chips to get in the event anyway~ - Zack April 2019
zenith tundra
yeah doesnt mean u can just 110 all ur dock
buoyant parrot
xD
split socket
I've 105 most of my ships, including the ones I don't use xD
trail hollow
Planning to run this for offense, and wasd for defense
Still have alot of work to do on this nakaga comp thou
zenith tundra
i found nakaga kind of squishy. i would use yukikaze in there but not manadatory
trail hollow
Havent tried them out yet
I still feel that WASD is superior
Ill probably switch to this thou, while i grind for monarch to replace my 3rd in wasd comp
zenith tundra
imo 120 will make nakaga a bit stronger
trail hollow
Yeah. 120 will probably do the job for the hard hitting nakaga
stark raft
Hey atleast that fleet u can reset early if they die
zenith tundra
wasd monarch, im not sure what to say about that since there is no synergy in between them compared to amagi that makes wasd even tankier against cv comps
trail hollow
Mmm.. well im still waiting for essex/cent
I usually mix up wasd with offense
And not purely just stall, cuz it sometimes takes forever to finish a match, i dont have enough gears to full
Equip both comps atm
zenith tundra
use hms if u like bbs
violet comet
i plan to
livid fractal
What PR ships are you guys aiming for PvP?
violet comet
rn im lvling hood and QE, plus Im aiming for monarch
split socket
Saint Louis
buoyant parrot
Monarch/Saint Louis
livid fractal
Like first choice to farm?
buoyant parrot
Monarch
livid fractal
I've seen people use Ibuki too
livid fractal
violet comet
boutta go full gear and finish her asap
buoyant parrot
Monarch Thigh = High Impact Sexual Violence and re-search purposes of course.
hidden wyvernBOT
zenith tundra
roon for a vg tank
violet comet
im tempted to go for either roon or st louis for 2nd
ngl
maybe roon may be worth it given
the new sistem they announced
on CN
buoyant parrot
the moment I saw the monarch tweet... I was unconsciously throwing money on my Laptop screen... However nothing is happening... I think I need to throw more.
violet comet
the faction-wide buffs
empty sinew
izumo for namazumo
trim horizon
won't matter for PvP
split socket
violet comet
either way, i think saint might be just better?
the whole ap and he switch doesn't seem reliable
zenith tundra
saint louis he is only good against vg tho
split socket
^
zenith tundra
amakaga struggled winning against wasda even if u win vg
zenith tundra
because vg should dissapear in 10 sec max against 3 dd weapons
trim horizon
btw what's the #1 in other servers ? Sandy is at 471 score and he's the one that have supposedly extra tix
grave gale
unless it's yukikaze then she dances around. 
violet comet
and smacks other ships
zenith tundra
yukikaze is no god
violet comet
grave gale
She'll go down eventually.
zenith tundra
all she has to do is ram against 1 bb and shes dead
zenith tundra
my list is dead and only 2 bonuses last reset
365 10/10
i forgot about lecture hall... stupid no class sundays
coral wren
i just lost 4 attemps 
i sleep over 2 of the resets sadly
so i have to be at 0 to sleep pretty much
zenith tundra
+-score is so cool
@real notch for aa equip on backline should be bofors>113 for non flagships right?
elder crane
It depends
Assuming you run a particular combination of Bofors/113 and just want to choose which guns to place on which ships,
For when the vanguard is dead, 113 is always better on main
Bofors on main will give you slightly better reload time (1-2% effect at most)
113 on higher AA ships gives slightly better AA damage (~5% effect for most teams)
Also some minor consideration for which ships are alive when
heady juniper
Guys where can I see the recommended ships for PvP?
elder crane
Read pins
heady juniper
Oh yeah sorry heh
lunar halo
2 gold catapults are still better than 1 cata and 1 oil tank right ?
elder crane
No
split socket
it never was as far as pvp goes
elder crane
Oil tank is best CV offensive equip, by far
zenith tundra
2 cata only works for 2 cv comps against weak aa teams
elder crane
Or vs teams with ridiculous AA (pretty much don't exist)
elder crane
They're not too hard to farm at least
I've like 20 of em right now
and scarp 1-2 per day it feels like
split socket
don't really need to target farm them, they drop pretty easily from boxes
real notch
yeah, @zenith tundra as bluerendar said
modern tree
just open a couple of your 1200 purple boxes
elder crane
Yeah, I mean from boxes, poor wording
real notch
if the ship has high AA stat, use twin 113mm as AA dmg is additive into the pool
elder crane
though I have enough bps for a lot as well, I think
lunar halo
They drop from every boxes ig
real notch
if the ship has decent efficiencies (120%/130%), twin 113mm is good too
elder crane
To determine relative AA damage, relevant derived value is (AA+100)*AAguneff%
real notch
but as i said it is not as important as overall AA mix
real notch
also as blue said the mix should be considered even when ur VG dies
elder crane
I'm pretty sure if you go out of your way to misplace a optimal AA mix, you probably still won't really notice much
real notch
for fox fleets it's w,e but if you are running 3BB backline, having 3x UFOs would stifle your RoF
personally i had i think 1x UFO 2x bofor on my backline
elder crane
Nah, not entirely true, the extra range of 113 on stationary ships means it is still better
The range/reload value is highest on 113 for now
real notch
yea but we still don't know at what range do the guns actually start firing
elder crane
So yes, slower shots, but planes spend additional time, and the overall effect has pure-113 having the best ratio for when only main fleet alive
real notch
like the circle is indicative but it's not absolute
because plane swarms are scattered, does the AA circle "tick" when the first plane enters the circle?
probably not, i don't think that's the case
there's a definite delay
like 0.1-0.5 sec
zenith tundra
@real notch any point to point out faster planes for foxes mirror in equip?
elder crane
That actually favors longer range guns even more
Better coverage as well, for planes on edge
real notch
also, the AA circle on backline is sorta halved, since you are looking at radius and not diameter
elder crane
If delay is fixed time or even % of range, if the listed ranges are true, then 113 still best
ofc leaving open possibility of janky formula/hard caps on range/etc.
zenith tundra
btd or junkers?
real notch
we can quickly comment and say u can try, but it's not worth it
cus you often lose 500lb bombs
BTW... i just saw the guide 
elder crane
Saracomet I heard can be used to be faster than all normal CVs
I think it's only possibly useful cause Sarakai's extra planes don't care about what you have mounted
zenith tundra
can i change the bg color so it kind show bis/viable/situational etc or should i just leave it to equip rarity?
real notch
we worked so well together 
i can't wait till this guide gets public
i'll hop back on guidewriting in about 2 hours, i wanna rewrite my VG summaries
just gotta do an interview quickly in 30 mins
yea sure why not @zenith tundra
btw, i corrected myself
sendai alone is not enough to wipe VG
if opponent has belfast + foxes
the AA is too strong
real notch
if opponent has just foxes, it's kinda 50/50 depending on ur torp RNG
but if they have foxes + belfast, you need aurora + sendai
an interview for a job
this dumb company is on like round 4 of interview screening
just gimme the dam job already
YOO LOL cyan i beat u by 1 
rank 8 vs rank 7
zenith tundra
elder crane
C'mon, either put bad high lv ships in for ppl to farm XP or a proper team for people to test against
elder crane
I'm glad I lved her on a whim
zenith tundra
no testing i like namaryuu too much at least till nagato max
zenith tundra
my defense is nakaga by default
heady juniper
What's HMS?
real notch
i just got lv 10 hyuuga barrage
heady juniper
And Warspite I do have her but is it Retrofitted or nah?
magic drum
anyone using comets on foxes?
lunar halo
Hey guys i'm back from my quest on dropping oil tanks from my 250 purp boxes
so uh
0 purple aviations tanks dropped
split socket
@zenith tundra didn't u say u don't think that vg is good, why are u running it on def 
lunar halo
Got 1 blue but is it really worth it
zenith tundra
because it's defense and it doesn't matter
lunar halo
Yikes
split socket
lunar halo
Who should i use for tanking the torps at the beggining
I think i only have belfap for that
zenith tundra
i cannot do the wasd equip part or at least not sure about what guns work best for them. if someone can tell me the opinions on 381 and 410 for them it would be helpful
zenith tundra
u would prefer 381 on sd over washy?
odd schooner
Yep so she could at least shoot one more time
Since there are circumstances where Washington does immediately
lunar halo
Do you guys thinks will do the job or meh
zenith tundra
where is sirius?
modest elbow
Wouldn't sodak go 410 if washy is using 406
odd schooner
406 is a bad idea cause
modest elbow
At least that's what I'm using for my wasda
odd schooner
3rd airstrike will hit you first before shells land on enemy akaga
And 3rd airstrike/shells usually the deciding factor of the match
modest elbow
Huh, so both go 410?
zenith tundra
@odd schooner have u ever tried 381 amagi 410 hsfcr sd and 410 washy?
odd schooner
Not yet actually
real notch
@zenith tundra i personally use
381mm + HFCR amagi
twin 410mm sodak
triple 406mm washington
i can see why you would want 381mm on washington too
odd schooner
I think it is better to leave hcfr to amagi cause her barrage
Can even hit the ship on the farthest range
zenith tundra
ok just wondering if u ever tried it
real notch
but i'm not sure about the timings... if you can fire 2nd/3rd shot before fox's 3rd airstrike then it's worth i think
odd schooner
I still need more data on sodak 381
real notch
otherwise you just have a huge loss in dmg from 156 dmg shells to 133
odd schooner
Hopefully someone sees me now cause I'm at constant 5/10
zenith tundra
lol
odd schooner
In another news. VG debuff fleet looking great vs torp vg fleet
All 6 alive and dying tho
real notch
nice, which VG is that
odd schooner
Sirius aurora sendai
real notch
ah, good
zenith tundra
it's explained
odd schooner
Recent matches are like
zenith tundra
how about namagi comps that want to hit enty?
odd schooner
2 vs 2
modern tree
this front is probably more viable than it has ever been
zenith tundra
especially namaryuu has really bad time hitting enty outside of nagato barrage
amagi barrage is consistent (unless ur unlucky) and nagato usually gets 1 barrage off. hiryuu just does her thing
it's a pretty consistent team overall imo. the worse thing that can happen is hiryuu dying too fast
enty u just put a406 on amagi and gg
modern tree
Hiryuu doesnt lose to Enterprise ever
zenith tundra
still enty can clear both nagato and amagi because of terrible aa
and against wasde ur forced to put hiryuu bot against washi which is dangerous
best choice would be if u don't want to swap weapon just put baga in and she should just clear enty
odd schooner
So that's why staag is highly recommended for namagiryuu
Also has highest aa iirc
How many things does namagiryuu lack right now
zenith tundra
lvl 120 and hiryuu kai
split socket
won't be called namagiryuu with a hoe
odd schooner
Namagi also gonna use white shells?
zenith tundra
1 will use hsfcr and the other white shell unless u prefer more evasion on nagato
i am a firm believer in nagato>amagi hsfcr
nagato barrage can clear too much and hsfcr has a higher effect on her timing then amagi because of diminishing returns on amagi due to her ijn buff
split socket
faster barrage proc is always worth imo
won't have to worry about anything if ur enemy is dead
zenith tundra
amagi with hsfcr from 8.9s to 7.5s nagato with hsfcr from 16.22s to 13.78s
split socket
maybe against nakaga
zenith tundra
when i finish her oath gonna try 127 in pvp
against any cv comps tbh
not just akaga
i'm at 188
split socket
zenith tundra
that's just how bad nagato aa is
split socket
I have hard time believing it but guess we'll see
zenith tundra
enty is as said earlier an insane counter to namaryuu
modern tree
I am not gonna say that Enterprise is a shit ship because she aint, but I have a hard time seeing how can she just straight up solo 6v1 considering the rest of the ships areound her will usually just be dead weights
zenith tundra
at least till hiryuu kai
split socket
but enty is shit though (I'm biased af)
halcyon hill
Howdy, i was wondering about BBV's auxes?
zenith tundra
idk form fighting wasde it doesn't feel as free as wasda is for namaryuu
halcyon hill
Hyuuga specifically
split socket
slap some gold sg radar on her and call it a day
halcyon hill
So the usual Toolbox +...?
split socket
no toolbox at all
halcyon hill
Uh okay
modern tree
You totally ignore the aviation port for now because Zuiun might as well not exist in pvp
halcyon hill
So SG + Auto?
zenith tundra
2 sg for pvp
split socket
they have to release some extremely op seaplane for aviation to ever be worth it on bbv (or stronger bbv in general)
zenith tundra
new seaplanes have 1600lb bombs but still only 1
halcyon hill
Never thought about doing double sg but i suppose it does makes sense
zenith tundra
most of hyuuga dmg comes from fires and shells
zenith tundra
good choice against cv i would prefer boilers against bb
split socket
don't forget about torp bulges either, pretty important up against torp fronts
halcyon hill
True
Well i need to get a few more levels on the frontline so i'll slap tool + bulge for now
split socket
also get pearls asap if u don't have it yet
halcyon hill
Yeah Jean has it but i wonder if there would be any overhealing in the case when she gets insta-killed
split socket
overhealing is definitely a thing, I'd recommend putting it on another vg
halcyon hill
Gonna put it on belfast so i dont have to go around changing auxes each time i wanna deploy ykk
Kinda lazy i know
split socket
it's better on bel anyway, ykkz sometimes survive for so long due to rng making her pearl almost useless
halcyon hill
What the hell i just noticed bulges dont show up when inspecting a DD
zenith tundra
yukikaze can just be alive for the whole battle so it's kind of pointless on her
bulges aren't available on dd
zenith tundra
solo carriers vf-17 or reppu?
split socket
vf17
zenith tundra
guess vf>reppu but wouldn't mind more opinions
split socket
vf 17 increases entire fleets AA, and fighters launch automatically against enemy cv
hard to beat that
plane hp and rate of fire is also better than reppuu
zenith tundra
does the buff apply to aa launch?
split socket
I've always assumed it does
might be wrong, but even if it doesn't, the other stats already gives u reason enough to use vf 17 instead of reppu
zenith tundra
i'm pretty sure vf should be superior but not 100% sure
modern tree
the idle fighter launch doesnt buff
split socket
u sure?
modern tree
you can tell when the buff is on because ship will say a skill line even if no skill triggers
because they count VF ability as their own
just like HFCR
modern tree
look, I dont know what you have been doing this entire time, but if you think Akagi is supposed to laugh maniacally whenever she launches her airstrike, which is what happens in pvp every day, like 10 times a day, then I am sorry to dissapoint you, its just the pirate squad
voice line, it doesnt have a skill popup
grave gale
I have a video of my recorded matches. Akagi doesn't laugh when launching the vf-17. She does say a line though
modern tree
is your Akagi sick?
split socket
yea ur right, I unequipped Kagas vf 17 and she instantly became mute
modern tree
its the same for HFCR, ship that has it will say their skill line when the battle starts even if they have no skills that trigger at this time. I will never be able to get Hood's voice out of my head
its been months
grave gale
in another match she does
split socket
I mean, u can always mute the game
modern tree
yeah but then I cant hear my secretary and why am I playing if I cant do that
hot creek
wow I really did think akagi constantly laughing manically all this time was normal
grave gale
Akagi has the better fighters
split socket
akagis voiceline are also more annoying
grave gale
I don't think anybody is more annoying than Long Island
modern tree
this bug is in the game since the end of October, guys, come on
split socket
this game has a lot of illogical stuff tbh, I've assumed most stuff are intended by now
modern tree
Yuuko Gotou is the worst AL voice, dont @ me
hot creek
I knew about Enty owari da'ing every time but I just thought akagi constant laughing was normal lol
shy hazel
at least
owari da is very short
and isnt as noisy
as akagi
i was like playing in house and in pvp
sis ask me who does that maniac laugh
split socket
how about adding names under the equip images too? I doubt ppl who actually need the guide would understand the equipment explanation without knowing which equip is which
split socket
dafuq is tabasco
zenith tundra
<@&472236072743600148> can we have a pin of the chart above?
hot creek
lol isnt that already pinned
zenith tundra
no the fighters one
viscid lynx
zenith tundra
just dive and torp bombers
viscid lynx
i wanna sleep reee
hot creek
i see.
viscid lynx
split socket
isn't the brown column thats touchdown dmg?
halcyon hill
Are the barrage proc chances increased in pvp?
zenith tundra
no
split socket
yellow is plane speed as far as I can tell
zenith tundra
reppu has highest speed and better suicide damage. i think it should be reppu>=vf-17
i don't think it matters since as aa bait u want them to get damaged instead of db and tb
split socket
plane speed can help to avoid risking getting shot twice
I still prefer faster takeoffs and if ur against comps using same cv, ur pretty much guaranteed to launch at the same time
zenith tundra
should be reppu passes, gets damaged tb and db passes get damaged but all only once
split socket
launch speed shouldn't be ignored, it affects ur entire airstrike
being slower by even a little might mean losing first strike in mirror matches in backline vs backline
zenith tundra
u force an early aa thick and then a delayed on tb-db then it would be with everyone in same spot which should make it harder for ur db-tb to be shoot twice
or at least that's how i see it working
modern tree
jet fuel is flight speed for planes, which renders AA pretty fucking useless. But Becon is the 4% reload and it's just like a purple catapult with ability afaik
lime rivet
Qn, what time does +10 perfect Akaga launch their second strike?
real notch
ok i just finished my interview
gonna work on guide now
4:25? i think
lemme double check
@lime rivet
2nd strike:
takeoff - 4:28
touchdown - 4:25
and for reference
1st strike:
takeoff: 4:49
touchdown: 4:46
i forgot 110 actually improves their takeoff
zenith tundra
anyone know if there is a way to use icons from cn wiki? cant find a hyuuga retro 1
zenith tundra
done thx
real notch
btw
for tierlist page, there's not much ayanami
(partly because i'm not a fan of ayanami)
but, should we still list out some viable VGs with ayanami?
i'm thinking especially on the nakaga fleet
we should include a VG that has ayanami in it
lime rivet
@real notch gotcha, thanks
zenith tundra
if u want to. i'm not a fan of her either in pvp
split socket
u could list bel aya jin, used to work pretty well in amakaga, not sure how it fairs in the current meta though
real notch
OK
lime rivet
Always some variation of X/Aya/Jin anyway
split socket
u'd also be deadweight once vg fight is over, I wouldn't do it tbh
zenith tundra
wouldn't aya be better if u actually manage to bring vg to enemy backlines?
lime rivet
Aya is...inconsistent, really. If she hits, it really hurts. But it's a fairly big if
idle python
you aren't expecting to have your vg survive against enemy backline anyway
real notch
but kawakaze nerfs her own dmg against backline ships
idle python
a case can be made for aya on defense though since opening torps are much more likely to land on backline
grave gale
Aya is the only vanguard that's good at taking out the back before the opponent's vanguard is dead
But it doesn't always happen
real notch
also aya barrage is busted
but kawakaze does fare very well against light armor
it's a 80% --> 115% efficiency boost
grave gale
I used Aya for a long time. I just recently switched her to Yukikaze.
red nexus
Using belfap ayaya and nanoda for vaguard
idle python
(and also a dmg buff to cruisers)
red nexus
(Is that good?)
split socket
I won't use ayaya without jintsuu tbh
zenith tundra
kawakaze dmg is only 1.5x against light armor cruisers vg over aya while aya does like 2x dmg with her torp buff against heavy armor
idle python
if your aya survives to get a 2nd launch of torps yeah
split socket
which she does like 90%+ of the time
as long as u don't put her front and have belfap to smoke then ur fine
grave gale
Aya isn't that squishy. Was pretty common for her to be the last vanguard alive when she was the off-tank
zenith tundra
mostly of the vg are defensive ones and u can just speed bb shoot mostly of the time. i don't see why aya in a nakaga comp is not expected to survive enough to reach backlines against a 3 bb comp which is where she should be used imo
idle python
and you also want their vg dead to have good shots at backline
split socket
thing is, kawakaze is slightly better at vg fight, but after that she might as well be dead
idle python
for the case of nakaga your goal is to kill the frontline asap, which kawakaze does better than aya
split socket
while aya is good throughout the entire fight
zenith tundra
i haven't played nakaga to know much about it tbh
split socket
the dmg calculation between aya and kawakaze was also done without the barrages
split socket
vg fights aren't always over after opening torps
idle python
yes but better chip means more likely to kill with airstrikes
grave gale
According to the JP data posted a week or so ago: Ayanami, Jintsuu and Aurora is the most common nagato and foxes vanguard. Surprisingly Yukikaze was only common with wasd.
real notch
i don't use aya but kawakaze is better at killing VG just cus of efficiency
again, consistency problem with torps which is why i don't use it but
that's a good efficiency boost
vague token
defense torps are consistent cause they pressure main fleet
offense torps are a meme ;)
idle python
aya might be better for defense because ^^
vague token
especially with the bulk increase
zenith tundra
what happens if u kill vg but opponent backlines don't die to 2nd airstrike?
idle python
though both are still a bit inconsistent ofc
split socket
sounds like u haven't used it in offense if u think its a meme
ionic magnet
torp vgs worked well during lv 100 meta
grave gale
https://pastebin.com/raw/gwJnehfN repost for those that missed it
ionic magnet
but with lv 110 noone really dies to opening torps anymore
vague token
torp offense is only ok because there's no tanks yet
ionic magnet
unless theyre poorly geared/underlevelled
vague token
like real tank
as soon as saint louis and roon get dev you can basically kiss torp goodbye probs
split socket
saint louis are heavy armor and they take even more dmg from torp iirc ?
idle python
no she's medium
ionic magnet
aya is still common cos people are lazy to switch kek
modern tree
Roon is not for pvp, dont kid yourself
idle python
and while medium does take more dmg for aya torps compared to light it's still a cruiser that kwkz can also benefit off of (and again keep in mind that you can't get a proc on opening torps)
split socket
medium then, but I don't see how she would tank it better than someone like bel
split socket
I should probably take a look at her wiki page again, I feel like I remember all her stats wrong lol
vague token
so also note
that the difference between light armor and medium with a torp bulge
isnt as large as you'd think
.8 (for light) going down by 33%
is 53% damage taken
medium goes down to 67%
modern tree
you'd never run torp bulge on a ca
lament lichen
35% evasion for 40 sec for saint louis
modern tree
and also, torps are shit
modern tree
and they are only gonna get worse
idle python
it does
lament lichen
8 speed from passive
vague token
i did we when were 100 xD
lament lichen
35% more HE damage
vague token
and a big 1.3 gun efficiency with MGM+1
lament lichen
all as a CA
split socket
read kawakaze cruiser skill again, it only affects allied ijn destroyers
vague token
sadly 15% is locked behind dev 30 xD
idle python
and that's exactly what kawakaze is
split socket
ALLIED
modern tree
Nagato skill says allied and she counts herself tho
you never know
tbh
the tooltips need fucking WORK
vague token
which is funny cause they just redid them
cough interference cough
oh, ws kai uses "all allied"
btw
but includes herself
or montpelier
so kawakaze should buff herself
modern tree
I always assume "allied" means ANY and "other" means NOT THE SHIP THIS SKILL IS ON
ionic magnet
tfw you're allied with yourself
split socket
it would be much better if they simply wrote IJN destroyers instead of allied IJN destroyers, no one would mistake it for being a buff for enemies....
vague token
xD
oh, air support specifically uses Other carriers
so yeah they definitely use other for Not Self
rip long island/shouhou/houshou
odd schooner
I think the main purpose of the fleet is to hard counter ykkz
I still need to look for a vg that has juneau on it
split socket
10% hit rate translates to 5% eva debuff?
split socket
not counting nagatos buff, sirius brings 10% hit rate, sendai 25% eva, aurora 20% eva
20% actually
zenith tundra
20%
split socket
sirius + nagato also gives cv 30% extra dmg
odd schooner
And sirius doesn't even need to live like aurora
But she thicc
Like 3 matches aurora died first before sirius
split socket
yea we said that
split socket
I have quite a while left before I can try it out
getting rekt for being squishsquish
odd schooner
I think mirror match
Would have some issues
Well could always ditch sendai and put junny
split socket
they seem pretty paper, but it's the best possible akaga dmg oriented comp
odd schooner
My only problem rn is that i don't have pearl lmao
It's on my def
Oh and badge
12 unique ships
lament lichen
i got only a +1 this reset
cerulean estuary
zenith tundra
453 5/10 for me
odd schooner
Rip for stella
cerulean estuary
gurren's gonna take ur spot
shy hazel
get top ten for me gurren
avenge me over sleeping
wait
i think it was gurren who alrdy blowed 3 charges
vague token
oh no
red nexus
SD
Would that work?
red nexus
Flagship, i guess?
shy hazel
sd wont work at least
hiryuu would be better
if u dont have kagabb
or hiryu
akagi or kaga may even be better
red nexus
I guess i'm just really desperate to use SD, but don't have WA
Damn... didn't mean to delete that one
vague token
oh noooo
cerulean estuary
its either youll get SANDBAGs or EYEBAGS
ionic magnet
both if youre really unlucky kek
cerulean estuary
30k is good enough imo
shy hazel
despo for purple bps
odd schooner
I ditched event like 10k
vague token
cause had to go to work
odd schooner
shy hazel
well maybe u should stoo at 30k too
got mlb ooshio and kongo alrdy
no ssr drops though lol
real notch
hmm
for the tierlist, we only need to add Tier 1 (S) type fleets now right?
i think notably we should add wasde in there
we added pretty much all the big b oys
ionic magnet
actually can we just change tier OP to smth like tier SS or S+
OP just sounds too memey
ionic magnet
and hmm i think hms fits in S tier also
but needs more testing
havent met any good wasda yet
dry socket
HMS can either go ham or get hammed
I've gone at HMS fleets with non-meta fleets and get coinflip results
I would think of it as Nagato and her barrageโcapable of defeating the best there is, but somewhat unreliable
wouldn't throw it in S+/S for that reason
red nexus
Just savescum for barrages XD
rough idol
what is best fleet rn in pvp
empty sinew
Nagato - Amagi - Hiryuu
dry socket
there's not a best, but only meta fleets
dry socket
Hiryuu serves as a wall, yes, but she's pretty weak without a retrofit at this time
rough idol
hmm
bleak osprey
What makes Naga amagi and hiryuu meta?
rough idol
im running bel aya laffey akaga and amagi
maiden agate
I'll keep chilling with Wasda it works like a charm
empty sinew
her 1st skill is strong nontheless'
rough idol
its not going well
bitter escarp
aya and laffey arent pvp units
rough idol
well i didnt know anything better
bleak osprey
Yet I run them and still get AoN 
dry socket
Aya and Laffey aren't too powerful in PvP
rough idol
i just threw whatever i had at it
coral wren
well aya is, but not the best option cause aurora is around
lime rivet
@bleak osprey hiryuu doesn't die instantly to wskai. Also, she pisses people off
bitter escarp
its the pissing people off part that i like the most
bleak osprey
Oh, so we ain't talking EN here?
maiden agate
And wastes their time
rough idol
aurora i built 203 times and still nothing
empty sinew
we talkin en
lime rivet
I mean, we can talk EN, sure, but its all about future proofing
bleak osprey
rough idol
rn i kinda fked myself and im in 423
lime rivet
Our meta is fucked because we got amagi early
bitter escarp
and its not like hiryuu is actually weak or anything even without kai, she still puts in work from my experiences
bitter escarp
she just isnt at her full potential yet
maiden agate
real notch
for your question... why not just... check out our very own tier list 
bitter escarp
and her low HP pool means she sometimes procs a bit early
real notch
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BglmSOaD1ec8zc6bKwiItf2OcQueoRNxF3UGzlQnHBU/edit?usp=sharing
bitter escarp
oh god yall have a tierlist now?
maiden agate
It started just yesterday 
bitter escarp
damn i see namaryuu at the very top, and my vanguard as well
i feel extra dirty now
someone just kill me
lime rivet
Why is QE/Spite/Hood unrated?
real notch
*commence laughing like YKKZ
rough idol
i still need jintsuu for smth
lament lichen
no one using that team atm
real notch
oh, we just need daxam to come around and help give descriptions for that fleet
dry socket
Namaryuu got decimated in jp
rough idol
nakaga or namaryuu
dry socket
Futureproof 100
real notch
i'm fitting in HMS fleets later on, it will probably be Tier 1 or Tier 2
for now i'm just gonna add in wasde first
buoyant parrot
top of the morning to yah! how are we all?!!
lime rivet
I used it until pretty recently. It's...about t2 at best, i'd say? Good against non-meta comps, some potential against solo carrier ent, but the main issue is that the spike damage output just isn't enough
real notch
hey etherst 
bleak osprey
So nakaga actually falls out of favor?
buoyant parrot
oh wait why is a mod bothering to talk to us now... Are we being noticed now???!! WOW!!!
real notch
nakaga does fall out of favor in CN/JP
empty sinew
real notch
from their glorious T0 spot
bitter escarp
they still solid though
buoyant parrot
btw Sirre have you saw our tagged messages yesterday?
rough idol
ok what is currently best meta and what should i save for
buoyant parrot
regarding the guide... have selected people who can edit that only
real notch
i just linked it 
lime rivet
I pretty much created this channel
buoyant parrot
coz if someone #degeneral YOLO's our work... it will be troublesome
lime rivet
Though after @real notch begged a lot
rough idol
ok what is currently best meta and what should i save for?
bitter escarp
true syanda answered the call for a pvp channel
real notch
@buoyant parrot ok, want me to delete the edit link? i'll send out invites for edit only people
buoyant parrot
Yes
do that
we've added a lot of things to it and edits yesterday... Have you checked it?
bitter escarp
is this also a good place to ask about boilers, good or nah?
bleak osprey
You don't really need a best meta gosh, with 20% attacker bonus, almost any decent fleet can win if you're willing to reset.
dry socket
Boilers are great for the vanguard in PvP
rough idol
tbh my fleet is terrible rn
lime rivet
The key thing is that you need a good fleet synergy with recommended, maxed loadouts.
rough idol
akaga and amagi is really shite and so is my frontline
lime rivet
There are a variety of ships you can run - you're not expected to get them all
rough idol
eh why not
bleak osprey
I ran cleve Aya laf, and gets AoN constantly. So your point is moot here.
bitter escarp
i just have anecdotal experiences of vanguard running into the torps and bb shots instead of dodging em, so i have ptsd from boilers
real notch
ok done @buoyant parrot
bitter escarp
sometimes speed is the enemy
bleak osprey
And how is amaga shite???
real notch
and yea, i was just so impressed today when i woke up
lament lichen
any one can rush for AOTN
real notch
there was some hardcore improvements to the layout and descriptions
rough idol
what will be next meta i need to make a fleet depending on that
bleak osprey
A maxxed bis amaga literally is a guaranteed win in EN mostly rn.
rough idol
i have one
real notch
ok i'm just gonna ping a few people to give me their e-mails so i can give them edit permissions... let me know if i missed anyone
@zenith tundra
@buoyant parrot
@lime rivet
@modern tree
@vague token
@ionic magnet
@balmy torrent
@blazing scroll
buoyant parrot
I already asked Permission to Edit
lime rivet
Warspite and Hiryuu kai. Make sure you have those two leveled and pray JP/CN doesn't have a radical meta shift in the next couple months
buoyant parrot
note "Etherstar"
lime rivet
@real notch i'll pass, you guys know your stuff better than I do
bitter escarp
what about me nah i barely even come to this channel anymore
real notch
okie
buoyant parrot
don't forget to add @blazing scroll he's the one who added a lot of image yesterday
rough idol
wait is HMS backline gonna be meta?
buoyant parrot
they are not... This is a collective shit of all people here
vague token
i dont mind sending my email but im not exactly a meta boi so xD
buoyant parrot
Tho their insights are taken seriously
dry socket
I do understand that, but they have perms anyway
bleak osprey
Am I the only currently using Sirius with foxes for pvp?
lime rivet
Honestly at this point "HMS backline" can drop Liz and still be good
@bleak osprey nah, i'm doing it too
mental sierra
I'm still using Sirius
bitter escarp
i used sirius with amakaga for a good while
mental sierra
with foxes
lime rivet
Trying to see if sirius or aurora is better
bleak osprey
Nice, the planes are Hella mad.
lime rivet
Both 
lime rivet
Doesn't your frontline...melt
bleak osprey
Can't wait to add nagato in for more mad planes.
ionic magnet
@lime rivet sirreq just got banned do you know why
lime rivet
Oh shit
bitter escarp
wait what
lime rivet
Too many pings, i think
maiden agate
Use Sirius Aurora and Sendai all at once
bleak osprey
Wot
ionic magnet
yea prolly
bitter escarp
ohhh yeah
ionic magnet
can you do smth about it lol
bitter escarp
one of the bots can detect if you mass ping
lime rivet
/unban 215240526302150657
strange moatBOT
sirrequiem#6969 was unbanned. Reason:
ionic magnet
thanks
bleak osprey
Bet is @strange moat
bitter escarp
nimibot always messin stuff up 
ionic magnet
dang nimi no mercy
real notch
lime rivet
Sorry bout that, lol
real notch
thanks syanda
lime rivet
Nimibot has that function after some total tool spammed several hundred pings in all channels
vague token
oof
real notch
np, duly noted... i won't mention so many people next time 
lime rivet
She's banned a couple moderators before too, since sometimes we forget she has that function
buoyant parrot
LET ME IN!!!! LET ME IN!!!!(can't edit)
dry socket
@bleak osprey surely you can agree Aya and Laffey are unreliable but viable if you use them as well
real notch
can u just send me ur email
rough idol
wait spites getting a retro right?
buoyant parrot
sent you DM
rough idol
will she be meta
dry socket
definitely
bitter escarp
indeed she will be
dry socket
OVKO
bitter escarp
also before mods get on your case, isnt your nickname against one of the rules
bitter escarp
your name needs to be easily taggable
rough idol
it is
rough idol
fine fine
real notch
i'm adding in a section for wasde guys, gonna put them as tier 1
bleak osprey
Ye they ain't good for sure, but I like using my waifus so meh
bitter escarp
put in a section for wasdpow for me
dry socket
rough idol
anyways
maiden agate
Wasd for life
rough idol
warspite is guarantee meta
bitter escarp
cant wait to try shit like wasdbunky and wasdgeorgia
shy hazel
@real notch where is my permission
rough idol
is putting monarch with warspite kai good?
maiden agate
@bitter escarp with Seattle Sandy Juneau front ๐ฆ
shy hazel
later
coral wren
real notch
wasdpow 
yea sure
if you want to write the description for POW
it'll be in the "notable mentions" section
dry socket
prince of stats, but not necessarily for usability
real notch
yea not in the tierlist, i'm thinking maybe adding a tab for explaining specific ships
bitter escarp
how impactful is jean bart gonna be, i know shes a funny tech pick in pvp sometimes but how good is she actually
shy hazel
shes trash in pvp
real notch
tier 2 tops prolly
dry socket
an explanation for each ship in the PvP tierlist and their uses in PvP specifically may prove useful to many
real notch
the preloaded shelling is interesting but not worth it
bitter escarp
who basically does the same thing except guaranteed
a shame, she seems like a fun thing to splash in
shy hazel
anyways if were talking about the pvp tierlist
real notch
what are viable wasde VGs right now? my brains not working
shy hazel
just dont bother including units we dont have
real notch
belfast juneau YKKZ?
shy hazel
maiden agate
Yea
dry socket
anything that lets Washington boot up
bitter escarp
belfast juneau ykkz is viable frontline for literally everything probably
dry socket
belfast-juneau-yukikaze's perfect for stalling, therefore making it great for any powerful backline
real notch
back in FW meta it was like... helena belfast eldridge, juneau fortune etc
dry socket
and especially those that need to warm up, such as Washington
real notch
but i don't wanna put those ships in, they aren't even viable anymore (eldridge fortune helena)
bitter escarp
theres still no equips for vanguards in the pvp tierlist thing right?
it's the 2nd tab
shy hazel
zack is making that
zenith tundra
i havent started vg yet