While ignoring Juneau
#pvp
slow totem
trail hollow
Oh ur sandy too?
slow totem
But then sometimes I do meme strats to see if it can actually work.
No, Lexington, but someone with the exact same composition
slow totem
idle python
Need to equip your doggo shells on your bbs
slow totem
DOGGO FLINGING
trail hollow
idle python
Then find someone else with doggo shells like tsutsutsu
slow totem
bleak flicker
slow totem
Looks glorious!
vestal crypt
odd schooner
livid fractal
modern shoal
Hey guys could someone help me? Im not sure if my pvp units are good. Or if I got a hidden powerful unit somewhere :x
This is my pvp set up
slow totem
Just that uhm...
Heavy Cruisers melt very quickly in PvP
And you got 3 of them.
Backline is completely fine.
modern shoal
Yeah it’s the front line i got a problem with
These are my front units and back line
slow totem
slow totem
Eldridge’s use is primarily for PvP yes
As long as she isn’t facing Foxes, she’ll be a blessing.
modern shoal
So lvl/skill her up?
slow totem
Yes, she’s a late bloomer though
modern shoal
I’m also skilling Belfast. Not sure if that’s smart?
slow totem
So she won’t really shine before level 90 and max skill level.
Belfast is to replace eldridge if you face Foxes
Since her smokecreen is on time with their airstrikes.
Foxes are too fast for Eldridge
modern shoal
Do I have other gems? Or..
Eummmm foxes are...?
Ahhh okay.
What front line should I try to@get?
Alright, and this is my other back units
Keep my back units as they are?
Im not sure. Really need to find out the best gear
Any of these good?
elder crane
Hood is fine to pair with WASD (Washington+South Dakota), and will work fine vs. any team (though it will eventually be nice to have options for backline, to start with, get 1 team out toward lv 100 ASAP)
Helena is also a strong option to pair with WASD.
While you start off, Cleveland and Phoenix are options okay for PvP that are very strong in PvE
For normal use, (Gold Fighter except Zero)>F4U(purple)>others
Poor zero, with OC coming soon, it won't even have launch time on its side XD
All the gold fighter AA and reload are almost identical anyways (Minus the zero).
Only the VF with it's skill and the other IJN fighter with it's flight speed are in practice any different.
modern shoal
Like this?
elder crane
Do you have the SB2C Dive bomber (purple)? it's the best available
The B6N isn't normally very good, the purple barracuda is even better than it (gold Barracuda even better)
elder crane
If you don't have better options, that's fine for now. (Although, the SBD dauntless dive bomber is a better transitional option, if you have it; still, you'll get an SB2C pretty soon anyways)
And yes, you'll want the purple aviation fuel tank for PvP.
SB2C will be the best Dive bomber we have for a long time yet. Nothing else comes close to challenging it for damage.
elder crane
Oil tank for PvP purposes only, to be exact, the gold cata is better for PvE
modern shoal
There that’s lvl 10
elder crane
Mmmm, the beaver badge can be better than a gold cata situationally in PvP
slow totem
Only on Defense
elder crane
Helps with mitigating BB damage
slow totem
For attack, you’d want Oil Tank + Cata
Since your firstmost priority is to win.
Yep.
elder crane
Yes, but people run the 410s sometimes to get around Enty and Eldridge
It helps with consistency in those cases
Yeah, main problem with it is that other ships may want it more.
Once we get the PR research Gold Steering gear Aux, that is considered BiS over gold cata on CVs in PvP in most situations in CN/JP meta.
The Beaver badge stat-wise is almost identical to that equipment.
strange shuttle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/270787651978788864/521774530847309844/image0.png
If you had a rumba AA gun on south D, wouldn't you swich these 2 AA guns betwee the 2 ships?
or is it better leave them as is?
modern tree
roomba will be better on eldridge because of her monstrous reload, and likewise bofors will be better on sodak because of her whatever reload
general rule is that higher reload stat makes more impact on slower guns and low reload stat should be helped with faster guns
elder crane
In PvP, not so, since the Backline AA is separate from Frontline AA there
modern tree
If they are separate then that just makes all roombas better than many other setups because range is king, but the question was about roomba vs bofor on Eldridge and she will certainly make better use of Roomba up front
elder crane
Ah, yes, I just meant for SoDak in PvP, to clarify my statement.
real notch
from my knowledge, it's a tradeoff
regarding eldridge, either you itemize for RoF or DMG, there is no straightforward ideal
the AA dmg formula is an additive sum, (NOT averaged like RoF and range) and thus applying a high dmg gun on eldridge is gutting her dmg added into the pool
it's just not as efficient
because eldridge has trash AA stat at 159
that's why the logic of "apply roomba/UFO to high AA stat ships" exist because of the difference in the mechanics of AA dmg
elder crane
Ah, but you miss her high AA efficiency, which means her AA is actually decent.
AA damage multiplier is calculated as (AA+100)/200*efficiency.
Her AA damage is less than 10% less than Belfasts, for example
real notch
her AA is 25% more decent which is basically 159 --> 198.5
elder crane
Not how it works.
real notch
that's essentially how it works, holding others constant
for the purpose of comparison south dakota is 368 AA stat
elder crane
Read the formula: (AA+100)*efficiency
real notch
25% increase in efficiency isn't going to make eldridge "decent"
here is this damage formula
removing the random value in parenthesis and formation bonus
elder crane
Yes, which means if you normalize for efficency, her AA stat is effectively 235
(159+45+100)*1.25-45-100
45 for gold AA
real notch
that's true but i said holding others constant
elder crane
I would call 235 effective AA "Decent"
real notch
the +100 in the formula and +45 AA stat is also present when calculating AA for sodak
for example
so why would you include that for eldridge
elder crane
They too get multiplied by the effectiveness, so I add, multiply, then subtract back out
Eld has 74% of the AA damage of SoDak by that formula, ignoring affection bonuses.
I would call that pretty decent, considering SoDak's AA is borderline amazing
real notch
wait what? how did you get 74%
just do sodak's as well, no need to subtract 100 and 45
elder crane
(Base AA+45 from gun+100)Xeff/200 is the multiplier
So ratio is ((159+45+100)X1.25)/(368+45+100)
real notch
(368+45+100)*125% = 641.25
(159+45+100)*125% = 380
380/641.25 = 59.26%
elder crane
Yeah, efficiency has a surprisingly large effect.
real notch
the thing with division on the left is just a multiplier though
because it's divided by 100 and just applied as a constant to equipment dmg
elder crane
? the overall multiplier is everything minus base equip dmg and the randomization
I think I see what you mean
real notch
so actually it's
(368+45+100)125%/100 = 5.13
(159+45+100)125%/100 = 3.80
elder crane
Well, still 74% ratio, though I mixed up the divisor for dmg and for rld XD
Yeah, it's /100, my bad
real notch
assuming weapon dmg of 130 (UFO dmg)
(sodak)130 * 5.13 = 666.9
(eldridge) 130 * 3.8 = 494
difference: 173 dmg
lemme check for comparison
for eldridge
(UFO) 130 * 3.8 = 494
(bofors) 120 * 3.8 = 456
difference: 38 dmg
the tradeoff is 0.34sec faster RoF
for bofors
but, aa guns equipped on eldridge RoF will be scaled to her RoF so the actual numbers will be a lil diff
ok brb for a bit
elder crane
So, if we imagine both ships as the only ones in the fleet, and ignoring affection bonuses (since I can't be assed to add those)
The AA DpS of Bofors on Sodak and 113s on Eld is almost exactly the same (2110+/-1) as 113s on Sodak and Bofors on Eld, since their AA damage and AA reload changes work against each other on the switch.
Even if we instead switch it so the effects work in the same direction, with Sodak getting higher Dmg with the lower rld and Eld the opposite vs Sodak getting lower Dmg with the higher rld and Eld the opposite,
The difference is 2135 vs 2085 DpS (without the RNG modifier), which is still very minimal (<3%).
Kinda goes to show why people say, "all the Gold AA guns perform identically"
real notch
yea all gold guns perform very similarly but we are trying to minmax here 
i'm not a big fan of using DPS as the main factor because the highest DPS is not necessarily the best DPS
enemy planes in PVP have very little variance so you can calculate pretty confidently how much HP those planes have
overshooting dmg is just as bad as undershooting dmg and likewise for RoF
elder crane
the difference in both dmg and reload between the two scenarios is <3% though,
as evidenced by the fact that both effects sum to <3% in total
Still can be interesting to calculate for minmax, ofc
And Sodak/Eld aren't the most different pair when it comes to AA damage
real notch
it's multiplicative so the relationship isn't linear no?
or am i mixing up my high school math here
elder crane
At small %, the effect is basically linear, to very close approximation
elder crane
The difference is up to about 3%^2, which is about 0.001%
I just took the Taylor expansion, and dropped the higher order terms for the approximation
real notch
anyways without turning into a math class my point is that you generally want to optimize your dmg and RoF at a certain point
to reasonably attribute to dealing as close to 70% of all plane's HP as possible, taking into consideration the variance between:
barracuda hp vs reppuu/hellcat/VF17 HP
reppuu plane speed vs. barracuda
etc
doing that above ^ will result in reaching the "best PVP AA mix"
70% because of the 30% HP floor mechanic for touchdown dmg
elder crane
Yeah, for us I think it's very difficult to get a 2nd shot off, so it's mostly dmg+range during optimization for us.
Once we get level uncap and PR content, I hear it will be possible for most front lines to get a second shot off, which means reload becomes more important.
real notch
basically, stacking 2x UFO VS stacking 2x bofor is a matter of dealing 70% plane dmg, not dealing maximum dps
yea, and the only way to test whether we do get a second shot off
is to find maxed fleets and record your matches against them
ofc this is mostly applicable to foxfleets
because RN enterprise has the plane cloak bug (AFAIK)
i think functionally it comes down to not UFO vs bofors
but like bofors vs twin 105mm
because you're trying to make marginal changes to RANGE vs. ROF to maximize your AA
hot creek
god dammit i lost 3 points cause dumbass game keeps matching me with lower ranked opponents
fucking hate that shit
when you're like rank 2000
and it still manages to make your leftmost oponnent lower than you
i will start paying attention more cause this is bullshit
hot creek
I know how ranking works m8
its just that sometimes all four of your opponents are lower ranked
and I always assume leftmost is higher rank at the very least
especially this early in the season
game giving you four lower ranked opponents should not happen unless you rushed pvps
whatever, I just need to pay attention more instead of assuming
warm egret
same
zenith tundra
what do u do when no one in ur list is using any attempts?
i'm stuck at 4/10 because way too low opponents
idle python
you're on 4/10 so just wait
just make sure you don't have more than 5/10 when you get more pvp tries
if you're still above 5/10 I just use them in the last 10-15 minutes
zenith tundra
my problem is that i need to go to sleep after i get new tries and most likely won't wake up till after daily reset
idle python
well you can either set up an alarm before daily reset or if you don't want to change your sleep schedule then just use them all up before you go to sleep
zenith tundra
outside of the "new opponent" button are there any other ways to change ur list of opponents?
idle python
nope only way is to refresh or defeat them
odd schooner
stable panther
Or. Maybe just watch Gundam wings and it's sequels
cosmic stratus
Reppu
cedar crow
Ty
zenith tundra
im at 196pts with 8/10 left can't find anyone to fight
charred sable
@odd schooner it's a Gundam Wing reference
cosmic stratus
Lies 
lime rivet
Reee
charred sable
There's actually quite a lot of Gundam references in AL... Enterprise references Gundam Wing, Phoenix references G Gundam, Unicorn references Gundam Unicorn
odd schooner
I really didn't notice wing reference on enty. Maybe I'll rewatch it next week since I'm done rewatching G this week
flint yarrow
tell me sweet little lies
lime rivet
Ayanami kai's got that antiship sword from gundam seed
abstract cypress
chinese game ftw 
abstract cypress
ppl not sandbaging 
zenith tundra
tbh i don't care enough about ranks to sandbag i just want to see how high i can get this season
cosmic stratus
Sandbagging
cosmic stratus
Would it matter so much to save them? Ive never saved mine before and I usually get admiral 
odd schooner
You get higher merits so long you go up to higher ranks
vague token
oh, there's no streak or anything
since you can reset
at any time
and not lose a match
correct
not the rank though, just their point count
i mean, it's pretty rng
cause i think the refresh/shuffle does it based on rank
not points
so who knows if you'll get someone with enough point difference to give you bonus points
xD
charred sable
all your opponents will be within 30 point range
when you click that "New Opponent" button
charred sable
its literally 50% RNG luck
in that your luck is that you get opponents who use their attacks early
so you can reap the bonus points and get a new batch of opponents (and hope that one of them also use their 5 attacks early)
hybrid obsidian
ye
i do resets within 30 mins interval after the tix restock time
if my list have all the turtles, i reset
slow totem
I never bothered with sandbagging
Since my end goal is reaching gensui (for that sweet 2500 merits), and not having the highest rank at the end of season.
Less stress, less hassle, maximum rewards.
wanton elk
I was initially using
WASD with enterprise
in pvp
But i was like maybe ill chuck in nc for the hell of it hahahah
slow totem
Yep, it works if your enemy has at least 2 CVs
Foxes, Enty - Illusty, etc
If not, NC is rather eeeeh
Warshrug/10
But if your goal is to do it for variety, then go ahead. Test it out a couple matches and see how you like the comp perform.
No experimentaion, no progress.
wanton elk
I mean considering how we are getting german ships
Is WASD that good of a comp anymore hahah
slow totem
WASD remains a solid mighty glacier comp with the right vanguards.
wanton elk
which vanguards should i be trying to focus on?
slow totem
None of the German ships fare well in PvP, maybe except Z23 Kai
wanton elk
I got her haha 👀
slow totem
Eldridge if you are up against Enterprise/Lusty
Belfast if you are up against Foxes
Juneau for general use.
Eldridge or Belfast can be swapped out for Helena if you are on the risk taker side.
wanton elk
Mm
I guess ill have to level up my elridge
Shes only one you mentioned hahaha i got others lvled
wanton elk
What about in regards to pve i mean i can use anything right
slow totem
PvE? Use what’s most cost-efficient for most gain
You can use full fleet to clear mobs, but the oil will cry.
wanton elk
LOOOL ive never seen that before
Im not actually sure whats fuel efficient so ive just been using full fleet
slow totem
Using 1 : 1 comps 2: 1 comp
spiral hull
fuel efficient, unless ur like into ultra minmaxing, just means drop ships
spiral hull
arizona/hood - phoenix/minnie/cleveland something something, and / implies or, not and
wanton elk
Hmm i got cleveland and phoenix (low lvl) and got hogh lvl hood but
How effective would that farm well any stage tho hahah
Or i would have to gear lvl it up high enough
slow totem
I used Arizona - Phoenix for World 9 mobs
Full auto
Yeah, the two are fully leveld, fully skilled, and full geared
wanton elk
crap i got rid of my arizona tho rip
bitter escarp
bitter escarp
respect your arizona, give her hugs and pats
wanton elk
Can i use anyone else or is that a staple 😭😭
slow totem
Uh...
spiral hull
arizona is a bb and a healer
slow totem
Renown Unicorn - Phoenix works.
spiral hull
there's about 0 other ships of that type
slow totem
Or, Hyuuga Unicorn - Phoenix
wanton elk
lol rip im so stupid
spiral hull
its ok
we all are
btw if you guys wanna continue pve talk move to #gameplay-help
since its not pvp any more
spiral hull
that works too
wanton elk
okay thanks for help!!
rancid totem
What can I improve on here?
abstract cypress
place sodak at mid
rancid totem
I was told I could change my front line for the better. What’s a good team I can use?
Moved sodak to mid already
rancid totem
Are there any better dds or cruisers I could possibly use?
odd schooner
There's this Eldridge pic too
abstract cypress
CL = belfast, juneau, helena
DD = fortune kai, eldridgre
rancid totem
How about now?
rancid totem
I know I know
I haven’t levelled a lot of things
They’ll be at the top of the list
lone pendant
uwu belfast lvl 99
cosmic stratus
/leave pvp
strange moatBOT
Cannot read property 'has' of undefined
slow totem
LOL
rancid totem
take it to #bot-spam
slow totem
No escape
rancid totem
the ride never ends
slow totem
Why leave tho?
Cause if you ask for pvp in help, they will direct you to #pvp
As is appropriate
You’ll have to join up all over again.
cosmic stratus
No way in... No way out... 
slow totem
odd schooner
People avoid this channel? 
slow totem
stable panther
People that loves pvp is either some weirdo, or a liar xD
stable panther
Iunno, boring is fine. The Chinese have a curse (admittedly an awesome curse) that says "may you live in interesting times"
coral wren
what is that 1/8
glacial spire
Non mainland chinese bloodline
spiral hull
ahh all this sweet pvp talk
slow totem
That 1/8 is Japanese
Where’s that PvP asker from help?
Send im’ in
Moar offerings to Sandy God
slate estuary
I already asked him to come here later
slow totem
👌
slate estuary
You can prepare your responses if you like, about why CA is bad in pvp
slow totem
insert typical why CA is subpar response here
leaden jay
Is there gonna be a KMS super tank PvP lineup?
slow totem
Unfortunately... no
Can they work? Maybe.
Do they give consistent top performance? No
Don't stop you from trying tho. I will try it out myself even if it's just to prove myself wrong.
stable panther
Hmm, ca CAN be good meatshield in pvp
Especially if you use those that are geared to be briclwall and can summon shield
slow totem
Yeah... hopefully. Hasn’t worked for me so far tho. FeelsBadMan.
lone pendant
better use eldridge
slow totem
spiral hull
Sirreq is alive 
slow totem
BOOM!
modern tree
CAs work only if they deal enough damage to justify running them over things that won't just straight up die to the main fleet doing anything. Can KMS work? You probably can end up having good results with Zepp and Z fleet, but I don't think their cruisers will pull their weight even with Liepzig existing, their offensive stats are just meh
And stalling is better done with things that we already have access to
spiral hull
Imo trying to have offensive vanguard, especially in the current meta, is just stupid. If they had survival and stall skills it'd be more interesting, but Eva boosting DDs from z1 doesn't really cut it for me
Cuz washi and sodak and the occasional hood will literally melt vanguards with their aux guns anyway if they get past opponent vanguard
spiral hull
So when do you die
real notch
Also congrats on mod btw
spiral hull
Ty
modern tree
I think that even if pushing through the vanguard means you get shredded by aux, it still ends up with your backline targeting theirs directly and theirs wasting shots on what remains of your front. It only doesn't work if you take enough damage to just die instantly when getting in aux range
Which is what might end up happening but that remains to be seen
slow totem
I really really really really want CAs to be viable in PvP
Eschewing a whole ship class from a mode in the game is just sad.
Haaaa....
Would it change anytime soon? With lvl 120 maybe?
slate estuary
It does change when IJN meta pops up
Since the typical Nakaga frontline falls flat to CAs
slow totem
THANK RNGESUS
slate estuary
Typically since it's stuff like sendai class, ykk, aurora
real notch
ye i also want CAs to be viable
culling an entire class of ships is just not right lol
it means there's balance issues they can't fix in PVP yet
modern tree
Rudder and 120 stats should even things out, but you are still dealing with slow ships that have 40 degree fiering angle
slate estuary
The CAs in later meta are there to counter another meta
modern tree
Rock paper scissors with rng is what we all signed up for anyways
slate estuary
Tho i'm honestly not 100% sure explicitly which CAs counter
modern tree
CAs probably do well vs aurora and flare combo cuz it's hard to make their eva even lower
elder crane
Aurora doesn't even affect them, which makes for the funny scenario where some CAs will eventually have higher effective evasion than many DDs in particular circumstances (lv120, with the rudder equipment, under aurora debuff)
real notch
@elder crane do you play en pvp
elder crane
Yes, I swapped over to EN server from CN server
elder crane
I just run all 105s, since I have no 113s (RIP) and I swap frontline ships around too much to properly optimize (I'm too lazy to re-equip)
elder crane
I'm trying to farm one now, since I've got every EN farmable ship (Collection takes priority for me!)
There's not too big of a difference though, and AA isn't a major issue in EN right now (no NAKaga)
slow totem
real notch
modern tree
7-2 is relaxing compared to all other maps where you spend the entire time doing damage control hoping that the boss wont spawn where you cant reach it
slow totem
modern tree
I opened 2 poms and one 105, every other AA I have is farmed or event
3 AAs from boxes, I am playing sice 16th august, this shit is just dumb
god bless bofor drops from FW
spiral hull
Damn you guys unlucky
spiral hull
I've opened 5 bofors, 2 UFOs, 1 pompom, 2 105
🔪
spiral hull
That's one of the only 2 things in this game I can flex about tbh
modern tree
only thing I have luck in is event gacha
slow totem
modern tree
everything else takes tremendous effort out of me
spiral hull
Hey I still don't have a single gold cuda
modern tree
good thing I am willing to sacrefice the shreds of life I have for this game
I cant say I dont have a single one because I do have a single one
spiral hull
:(
modern tree
I am gonna record my 60 Ironblood boxes and nothing in them
spiral hull
Dax do I have u added
If not, points at nickname
Also I'm supposed to be asleep, gn hf 
modern tree
slow totem
slate estuary
guys...
pvp is gonna change
aurora is being added
looks like juneau's days are numbered
slate estuary
looks like that CA meta may come out earlier than expected
modern tree
good thing I had Indie/Port maxed long before I knew what I was doing
grave gale
Time to spend more cubes on light construction than limited
modern tree
wait, its HMS Aurora right? I can just slap her on my HMS and laugh at Belfast shredding everone
slate estuary
yes
modern tree
what a joyous day, I take it all back
bleak flicker
does she negates the evasion provided by belfast smokescreen too?
modern tree
who actually uses Juneau in HMS in this meta
bleak flicker
no torp bulge and lowered eva and mag torps
?
sounds a world full of pain for dds
bleak flicker
that means eldrige would be in same tough spot ?
livid fractal
PvP is my source of purins, so yeah
modern tree
DDs will still hang on for a while because poeple will likely prioritise event over light construction
bleak flicker
she could be easily killed in opening torpedo salvo
livid fractal
modern tree
Can't be frailer than Suffolk and I didnt have much trouble keeping her alive to do the job
slate estuary
real notch
maybe i'll swap eldridge for aurora
slate estuary
i doubt if the meta would shift that fast
and the joy of aurora is that she's not hms only
modern tree
First people will need to get her and level her and that will take about 2 weeks before she will start appearing
slate estuary
i don't think she's good on defense anyways
real notch
it will take max 4-5 days
slate estuary
eld would likely still be better
real notch
ofc some people like tatsuya and dread will max aurora by day 2-3
save for her skills
modern tree
I dont know about you, but I am gonna be crafting event and fuck light construction with how bloated it is, it will take a miracle to get her without dumping a truckload of cubes
slate estuary
assuming they have enough luck to build her and minimally get zepp
slate estuary
tirp is shop only
modern tree
I will PROBABLY dump some after I am done with the event because still need Bucky
modern tree
but man, its gonna just be crafting all the starters and sandy and nothing else
real notch
this time will be interesting tho
will probably take 2 weeks for EN to figure out the optimal spot for aurora
first week will just be clown fiesta testing
modern tree
first week will just be torp memes
real notch
yea that too
modern tree
Kagerou Bucky Ayaya here we coooome
elder crane
It'll be a while before people get and level up aurora
At least a few weeks until she's common, probably
slow totem
I can use Minny in PvP Nao?!!
modern tree
yeah, like I said, I dont expect to start even seeing her RARELY until 2 weeks in
slow totem
elder crane
CAs still need level uncap first
real notch
ye
slow totem
real notch
CAs need the base EVA
slow totem
Okay
elder crane
We'll probably see the intermediate CL meta
real notch
when sodak came out everyone hopped on that like a bandwagon
but USS BBs were more flashy
elder crane
With all the evasion based DDs eventually pushed down
real notch
aurora is less flashy and only known to be op by people who follow JP/CN
elder crane
RIP fortune?
bleak flicker
the intermediate CL meta looks like ?
slow totem
bleak flicker
auroa + juneau + belfap?
modern tree
I expect to see nothing but starters and ther torp nonsense for a while
real notch
tbh
grave gale
It's gonna take a while for a lot of people to get her since there's so many ships in light construction and people are gonna be burning their cubes on limited instead
real notch
EVA based DDs were already not good in volume
in my tests, having more than 1 DD usually resulted in a pretty frail frontline
grave gale
Aurora actually helps Eldridge by lowering her base evasion. Makes it easier to proc rainbow
and her decrease does nothing to rainbow
real notch
also very inconsistent
because dodging 1 BB salvo is the difference between winning or losing the vanguard fight
modern tree
is rainbow 80% with the debuff or...?
slow totem
Why need Lusty when Aurora can proc rainbow for you?
grave gale
I don't think so.
slow totem
elder crane
Yeah, but now they even worse
Javelin not very useful anymore, Leander>Cygnet, and fortune weaker when facing aurora
slow totem
No Rainbow hardsets the eva to 100%
real notch
the best vanguard fleet was pretty much always 2CL 1 DD
except for in the bare beginning of EN when everyone just used cleveland helena and belfast
3 CL
if it were me i would switch my eldridge for aurora
at least for now
modern tree
Oh man, I remember smashing triple CLs with Indy/Port, those were the days
slow totem
Aurora gets deleted by Owari Da tho.
grave gale
Aurora really only helps the foxes not wasd and the foxes are still waiting for Nagato. I'm not sure how good aurora will be without them. Wasd's issue is missing shells due to speed not evasion
real notch
ye i agree somewhat
we might have to run some tests of twinfox + aurura vs wasd + hood + fortune
if they can win 70%+ of the time then foxes are back at the top
modern tree
I cant wait to see less eldridge to run Ark on wasd/hms and laugh very very hard
grave gale
When I raise aurora, I'll try the foxes again
elder crane
Foxes have always been roughly parity with WASD, since their matches are much faster
slow totem
ARK LOVE!
elder crane
Now we can run torpfrontlines too with magtorps
grave gale
Foxes have the issue of running into AA road blocks. There are particular set ups that stop all their damage
grave gale
Wasd + hood, Juneau, Cleveland, Belfast
slow totem
I have a certain set up that like no sells 80-90% of their planes.
grave gale
Hard to do any damage with foxes against that
real notch
which is what happened when wasd came in, everyone thought foxes would just become useless
slow totem
real notch
the fleet that i had trouble with was anything with fortune
if wasd + fortune had a hood
elder crane
Non-AA optimized WASD does very well vs AA optimized WASD though, I find
grave gale
Anybody that doesn't run belfast gets run over entirely by foxes
real notch
that's why the meta is rock paper scissors rn @elder crane
slow totem
I once had a meme fleet of Juneau Cleveland and Sandy
They all pop their skills
All of the foxes planes just... gone
grave gale
lol
slow totem
real notch
if enemy is:
foxes -> use wasd fortune
wasd fortune -> wasd eld
wasd eld -> foxes
that's literally the flowchart of this dumb season
I never switch up. I just run the same fleet every time.
elder crane
mmm, I find WASDE+Bel already always wins vs foxes anyways
real notch
ye
modern tree
justplayhms
slow totem
I like to switch up cause I no likey being one trick pony
real notch
against maxed foxes 12.9k
you will win realizing
you would have lost 100%
if they had 20% attack bonus
elder crane
Mmmm, I find it not that close
grave gale
If Sandy doesn't die first. 
real notch
xd
slow totem
real notch
depends on what your fleet is
slow totem
She'll live. She's Nanba Wan
elder crane
Yeah, 20% matters only in that Helena won't always survive otherwise
slow totem
I had NoCal with WASD in that meme one
elder crane
But a WASD+Eproc or WASDE+Helena proc will murder on return strike
slow totem
Unlike Enty, Foxes can't defend themselves. True.
elder crane
So I find it's nearly 100% win anyways
real notch
hmm
i can't find my test data but
it kind of depends on what fleet you run @elder crane
elder crane
And funnily enough, faster high-speed foxes are worse vs WASD
since they run into SDK proc on second strike
grave gale
Yeah..
real notch
ye they do
grave gale
Having it leveled bites you in the ass there
real notch
my fleet is wasd + ent, juneau belfast eldridge
elder crane
I find battles closer vs AKaga with slower strikes
real notch
i don't optimize against foxes at all
except with belfast (but i keep her for HE dmg)
slow totem
As long as you have a plethora of comps. Meta shifts ain't gonna hit you in any significant way.
But that's like saying water is wet
real notch
water is wet 
slow totem
elder crane
I've went WASDE+Jun/(2 of Helena/Bel/Eld, Bel vs foxes, Eld vs Enty/WASD, Hel if she fits) since FW
I'm going to return to foxes a bit this season for testing, though
grave gale
I have 100s of almost every good ship in the game in EN right now. I'm just lazy and don't like swapping around gear.
elder crane
^
slow totem
So don't level Foxes' preemptive airstrike and just their synergy skill.
Big brain
200 IQ
real notch
xd
elder crane
Nah, you just run slower planes and don't launch speed optimize
real notch
i think what CN/JP does is they run 2x ryuusei to force sodak to proc iron after 1st airstrike
elder crane
That needs Nagato though, to be reliable
real notch
either 1x or 2x
slow totem
That's if sodak's in the middle.
grave gale
Need dyed's rerun for a second easy ryusei that doesn't require grinding
real notch
well not that i ever tried
in my experience running foxes last season
the problem wasn't really sodak
it was fortune and hood
elder crane
One of the major reasons for 2X ryuusei IMO for us is to slow down 2nd launch so they don't run into SoDak proc
real notch
shredding my planes
elder crane
since ryuusei is significantly slower than Barracuda
real notch
ye it is
does it really help tho?
sodak's shield is like 8 secs long
i feel like it will run into shield anyways
elder crane
You already hit on tail end of the shield, I find
At least, that's my experience on WASD offense
Very few of the foxes I've faced hit into SoDak
And even then, the shield often only catches the first half of the strike as well
real notch
yea that's wat i feel
cus wasd e offense
i can tell in 15 seconds if i am gonna win or lose
the sodak shield is not that significant i found
elder crane
I think it'll matter more with lv uncap and Nagato, as both of those accelerate the foxes' strike
real notch
yee
that's true
after eld is becoming more common in wasd comps
foxes became a bit stronger
now there's the new trend with 410s on wasd
which will make foxes even stronger
and by the time aurora comes for foxes
it will bel ike
fox domination
modern tree
lets see those gold 410s
real notch
poggers
slow totem
2Stronk4Me
slate estuary
Bakuretsu indeed
pastel forge
surprisingly I only met 1 guy with gold 410 so far
spiral hull
I wonder how PvP will be with aurora released but max lvl limited to 100
CAs still have bad eva and DD/CL evas drop
real notch
we were talkin about that earlier
real notch
i'm a little uneasy about swapping out belfast tbh
aurora has 2.5k hp
she's brittle like a DD
odd schooner
Most DDs will go plastic now
spiral hull
I usually replace eld with fort if there's an akaga I can't deal with, but there's no such akaga so that's yet to happen
odd schooner
I haven't had issue with akaga since FW
spiral hull
Ya same
spiral hull
I just fought a 12.8k hakaga few mins ago and they got roasted anyway with eldridge
real notch
i'm almost certain aurora will shoot foxes back up to top tier
odd schooner
Yeah that can do
real notch
especially with wasd fleets using twin 410s now
spiral hull
Mfw on sandy so people gonna be using slack teams anyway
odd schooner
I think she's only light so so we're skipping rolling for graf i guess
spiral hull
I feel like my server's usually 2 weeks-month behind what avrora's teams do
Team wise or eq wise
odd schooner
Anything that isn't Avrora is experiencing that tbh
real notch
oh 
maybe
odd schooner
Especially lexi
real notch
i swear after relcuse and i talked about 410s
the week after i saw like 4-5 teams with it
spiral hull
Lol
real notch
but recluse was right tho
spiral hull
I've been using 410 on washi ever since she got to 100
real notch
410s is wayyy better against wasde fleets
odd schooner
Also there's no other downside of 410, 406's 3rd.shot usually miss
real notch
ye ^ i found that too
i don't have evidence but i feel like triple 406mm has a wider salvo spread than twin 410mm
real notch
btw zuyi if you stack triple 406mm with HCFR and use twin 410 for other, you will have bit of a delay
real notch
because HCFR (1st strike) is 16% CDR and twin 410mm (compared to triple 406mm) is 15% CDR
spiral hull
Wonder how many people gonna run ayas
Also if I removed Belfast i wonder who I'll use rainbow magtorp on 
real notch
good question
if it's aurora best to use bulge + toolkit
that might save her abysmal HP pool
real notch
ye i put her in the middle
spiral hull
Aurora 244/155%
Juneau 137/135% (holy shit)
Eldridge 341/130%
spiral hull
I mean, magtorp doesn't use aux slot sirreq
real notch
i win almost all vanguard fights
odd schooner
searchal Aurora
hidden wyvernBOT
spiral hull
I'll probably put it on aurora
real notch
oh sry i thought u meant rainbow dildo
odd schooner
Eldridge will surely die on first Akaga airstrike now
spiral hull
Tfw you +10d all those gold twin 127s just to see probable hakaga return
doesn't have a gold cuda
I'm not using akaga until I get a gold cuda 😒
slow totem
Just get S rank looool 4Head
Looks like my Enty Hood Nocal - Juneau Sandy Belfast meme fleet may return.
grave gale
The 2 ufos I have I had to make myself. But I've gotten 4 bananas
not even gonna bother buying royals anymore. I'll just take what the game gives me with dailies and drops and hope for the best
real notch
i think i'll stop too
i need to start saving for aurora rolling and magtorp enhancng
spiral hull
I'm gonna roll event first and Aurora later cuz gotta get dat collection% 
zenith tundra
anyone going for aurora instead of graf? she seems god tier for pvp
zenith tundra
with my luck it's gonna take 2 months
modern tree
with the best of luck its gonna take a long time because Light construction is a hell of a pool to draw from
grave gale
Unless you use Foxes/immediately plan to go back to foxes, I question how good Aurora will be right now.
zenith tundra
i still don't have fubuki
zenith tundra
i use only foxes for attacking right now
real notch
other than tirpitz who isn't even a roll?
zenith tundra
i just don't use them for mirror match
modern tree
z46 seems like fun but she can be farmed, only ships that are gacha only only are hipper and Zepp
afaik
spiral hull
Hipper is a drop
modern tree
oh really
grave gale
graf is the only gacha exclusive ship
zenith tundra
i hope graf rates aren't too bad so i can fish for aurora
modern tree
I mean, the infographic in #gameplay-help pins has wrong info then
spiral hull
I'll try to const graf and z46, I don't wanna farm SRs
real notch
time to bring back that yung
spiral hull
Then it's to light hell
zenith tundra
nep killed me on cubes only 167 now
spiral hull
Well the event were getting is Midway between oc og and oc rerun
So let's see how it actually turns out
zenith tundra
i wished it was og tho
spiral hull
@real notch what if others don't use hakaga? Gonna swap bel for fort?
zenith tundra
it's dumb we get fw rerun after dyed in red og
modern tree
I would love if everything was farmable so you dont have to roll at all because they are really fucking with EN with the back to back events
zenith tundra
if we got dyed rerun i would've got yukikaze for pvp
modern tree
if only Zepp is gacha thats fine because the pool for SSrs is gonna be like 9 ships
real notch
even ignoring her smokescreen
spiral hull
Bel has high dps
real notch
with top tier CL stats, staggering DPS and great survivability
zenith tundra
plus good torpedo damage too\
modern tree
Belfasts skill combined with teh HE characteristic is 175% damage vs light armour and thats really damn high
real notch
ye
modern tree
thats totally ignoring the base 150% efficency
spiral hull
If I was gonna use bel she'd definitely be the one holding magtorp
modern tree
spiral hull
Except if I was using javkai or ayakai
real notch
in theory the comp seems good but
spiral hull
I mean rainbow magtorp
real notch
i am excited to test it against wasd fleets
zenith tundra
that's a good point
spiral hull
Why not
I wouldn't generally use her but if I was meme'ing with hms, her torp's quite decent
Time eh
Rainbow cool down too fast for her barrage?
modern tree
I mean, you can ignore the 30% boost from her barrage I guess, but just equipping gold instead makes it work
quint mags is too slow
to fire at 20 with her barrage
zenith tundra
can i go for homing torp right after kms event starts or do i need to wait after i got one from shop?
spiral hull
Should be right after patch, I'm gonna spam all my purple techs right after anyway so let's see
zenith tundra
i only have 2t5 and 26t4 gonna wait for confirmation
zenith tundra
are there purple or blue ones too?
spiral hull
Purples afaik
grave gale
I'm not gonna open my ironblood till I see somebody else get one from it first
spiral hull
Idk there might be blues, all I know is you can get them from purples, dunno the tiers
modern tree
I have done math and research, if CN is to be believed, the skill has to be active for the torp boost to apply on hit, therfore you want as close to 20 fiering speed as it is possible on Jav torps, which you get with quad magtorp easy, you start with preloaded torp which might offset the timer a little bit depending on her possition in the fleet and then get second wave with the barrage that boosts it. Yes I really want Jav to be useful for something, shame Aurora is just gonna ruin her as soon as she gets her chance
grave gale
EN could forget to add them or say "we'll add them later" gonna not risk that
spiral hull
I see dax
zenith tundra
wait is there a delay on her normal torp cd based on when she shoot the preload one?
modern tree
cant shoot all of them at once, just like bb shots the preloaded start from fron t then mid then back
so if jav is all the way to the back, the cooldown will start later because her preloaded torps will fire last
also a fun fact, the cutscene at the start of pve is in game timer but not barrage/airstrike/torps cooldown timer so everything in pve seems to be offset by 2 seconds
tldr give up on Jav unless you have a degree in math
zenith tundra
what i was trying to say don't u get 2 torpedo slots after 2nd lb for dds, so shouldn't it start loading the 2nd wave right at the beginning? why would u need to wait for preload to shoot?
modern tree
srs, this shit gets even more convoluted with QE buff
spiral hull
I think her buff duration is pretty ridiculous tbh
Like wtf is 5s
Dumbest window you can give and she needs all the help she can get
modern tree
5 seconds is nothing because back then just having 2 barrages was ridic and tbf it buffs her barrage torps
she just got power creeped to hell and back
all new boats above rare have 2 skills and all of them are stupid
spiral hull
It's dumb when they just ignore some old-additions forever while everyone else gets so much better stuff
looks at warspite
zenith tundra
and now she's underpowered compared to the rest...
modern tree
if you look at the starters you can tell which one was retrofitted first and which one last
just by their barrages
spiral hull
Imagine if z23 normal barrage was shaped like z46's btw
Would be so much better in pve
Anyway I'm gonna try to sleep for 3 hrs or something lol, bye
zenith tundra
my opponent list is stuck from like 6hrs ago... why is no one playing
spiral hull
Did you close and reopen game? If so and still stuck, it's time to do a fight or refresh
modern tree
just bad luck, in the end, you are rolling dice
zenith tundra
8/10 attempts now i'll wait till almost next rounds
last one used i got lucky and got rank 13 as opponent
modern tree
sitting on 8 myself, but I am gonna burn them in like an hour because I will have to sleep to avoid fate worse than Zuyi will face in few hours 
zenith tundra
i have to do 8 myself including the one after recover before sleep
modern tree
I usually sleep on 5 then play the rest on the way to work since I have to be there way before the reset. Never get to farm much unless I get lucky, but Sandy is apparently so casual that I get all my merits by just playing out the games
zenith tundra
last season i was constant top 1k avrora even with 5 loses so can't really complain
hybrid obsidian
I learned last season that i forget to spend tix - loss 5 as well - if i save them so this season idc about turtling anymore, spend 1 tix an hr
in the end will still make admiral but just a few resets after the first 2200
no more stress, no more complaining about folks not atking , lol
odd schooner
@zenith tundra early top 100 is tragic. Like they only went for top 1 pic and never played again
zenith tundra
i play pvp for fun. also that pic was only because it was kind of unexpected
zenith tundra
who should i put reppu on? kaga or akagi?
hybrid obsidian
what s the other option? if i recall correctly then akagi has higher fighter efficiency, the better fighter go on her
hybrid obsidian
welp , i dont use foxes so I might not be correct, however, i heard Hellcat has better AA so i d slap that onto akagi while reppu on kaga
I personally use cranes so reppu on my shoukaku cuz its faster, lel
hybrid obsidian
ye, if you ever see sirrequiem, you can ask him
he s pretty passionate about fighters , lul
odd schooner
Kaga reppu akagi hellcat iirc
hybrid obsidian
heh, seems like im not too wrong
zenith tundra
for torpedoes better quad or quint?
i feel like my aya with quad hits more than others with quint
hybrid obsidian
it depends is the answer, tho since quint has shorter rate of fire, i put it on my CL/CA, while quad on my DDs
quads does indeed hit harder if you manual
get a bit more chance to hit w quint when autoing tho for obvious reason
odd schooner
I use triple quad
Shotgun the hell out of their frontline while def fleet has more chances of aiming
hybrid obsidian
also quad can reach backline since higher range in pvp
zenith tundra
just got my 2nd gold quad too bad homing incoming so won't lvl it to +10
hybrid obsidian
i get tired of switching my torps to new girls i farm so i +10 every gold torp on sight
not that you will ever run out of torp plates either
i have 2k+ purple torp plates :
zenith tundra
i had only 1 quad and 4 quint till 3min ago
hybrid obsidian
ic
zenith tundra
i have almost 600 plates for torp but saving them
hybrid obsidian
oh ye, now that i notice, you r that dude on r1 last night or something right ? lel
zenith tundra
it's 1st at the end season that matter not 1st day
real notch
hybrid obsidian
heck ye
hmm, im contemplating whether or not to wipe more skins
well, dependent on the % discount, anyhow
excited for new ships to train and put in pvp for fun
got my z23 and z1 skill maxed just today in preparation
real notch
LUUL nice