pvp

[twilit wadi]

unless the name is straight up slur or smth

[sudden flume]

okay fine

[sudden spoke]

The Discord and the game follow different rules. We are trying to keep it more "PG" here and also not get in trouble with discord itself.

But as for doing that stuff ingame? Do whatever. Not our concern

[wet salmon]

Yo guys, is the new ship any good in pvp?

[pseudo copper]

With the halved barrage unlikely, no invul and not broken damage unless they return the damage in which case would just be maybe

[wet salmon]

Aight lemme know if it's any good after all, I was doubting it since the skill aint that much of a meta

[pseudo copper]

It was only the barrage and maybe summons that showed any promise

[high quest]

<@&460646206851252224> smite this man

[pseudo copper]

<@&472236072743600148>

[lusty hill]

player vs bots

[lone fjord]

Bataan got many kills

[pseudo copper]

how 2 bag

[broken spruce]

Wear your bag

[pseudo copper]

Can I wear you instead?

[opaque plaza]

My body is ready

[sudden flume]

yummy

[lusty hill]

what's the final evaluation of the new UR for pvp?

[pseudo copper]

🚮

u pwo Serentiy u shuld be the 1 mking the cal

[lusty hill]

you're right

I don't think she's good in pvp

anyone that is found using her in pvp will receive consequences

[stable dawn]

serenity finally thinking for himself

[rare garnet]

Keep yourself safe

[dense slate]

i am starting to think this guy likes Bataan

[gloomy sand]

you are 4 years late

5*

[pseudo copper]

Peenoys all like Bataan iirc

[unkempt vortex]

you could say that again

[lusty hill]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

[rapid hatch]

What is your favorite ship?

[pseudo copper]

Me + @stable dawn

[lusty hill]

who are you

[rapid hatch]

IM member....

[lusty hill]

Knows that all actions have consequences

[void zealot]

<@&472236072743600148>

[sullen iris]

Btw for scam, ping admins

[void zealot]

ah ok

guessing it's because you don't have perms to ban?

[sullen iris]

Ye

[void zealot]

gotcha

[gloomy sand]

There was a girl who asked online: "my boyfriend was born in 2000, I 2002, his laptop password is 07051996. Does he have a side girl, should I confront him?" - And the whole comment section is Faker image

[mortal aspen]

A girl? Here? Definitely scam

[pseudo copper]

There are only bots here

[pseudo copper]

<@&460646206851252224>

[lusty hill]

That's not pvp

[rare garnet]

it's pvb

[stable dawn]

it is pvm

player vs maint

[lusty hill]

If maint stops you from pvp then are you really a pvp player

[unkempt vortex]

PvP Mindset is real

[gloomy sand]

2700 bans for <@&460646206851252224>

[queen kayak]

Whats the best defense team I can build?

[charred sable]

[viral galleon]

[trim cloud]

[charred sable]

[wise summit]

oh hello

[slender gust]

[devout gust]

is ayami retrofit good for pvp now

[wise summit]

finally a channel in which we can be free from smug "pvp is garbage why bother playing it" every time anyone asks a pvp related question

[ionic hill]

put jueneu in the front

[wise summit]

that's a meta* team, just need to max LB and level cap them

[queen kayak]

Well if someone says that here, they'll be removed from the Clubs and no longer be able to join. Just ping a moderator

[charred sable]

For those who will inevitably come to this channel in the future to ask the question "What is the current PvP meta and what gear should I use?":

The current PvP meta consists of Washington + South Dakota + Enterprise/Hood for your backline/main fleet and your choice of defensive/offensive ships for yourfrontline/vanguard. For example, see screenshot.

For gear recommendations, consult https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B-kGGh6rHk7PlXQDkAl8bOGPUMp0oncVFeJAzSjdEgg/htmlview#

[devout gust]

is washington / south dak / nor cal best backline

[ionic hill]

no CVs?

[wise summit]

norcal isn't really used

[hard citrus]

OOHAYOO GOSAIMASU

[devout gust]

whats in the third slot backline

enty

[wise summit]

enterprise or hood

[lime rivet]

Hood or Enty. Usually hood

[weary nacelle]

pvpv

[devout gust]

so hood still in middle

[wise summit]

no, sodak in middle

[charred sable]

North Carolina currently is not meta because her focus is anti-CV and CVs are currently not meta

[lime rivet]

Sodak in middle. You want her to take damage

[coral wren]

can someone explain why so many fleets run enterprise/hood/illustrious? i mean, i understand the first 2, but why illustrious?

[devout gust]

what is the best front line

[charred sable]

She will later become better when Nagato is released and foxes return to the meta. But not right now

[lime rivet]

Because people mistakenly believe her fighters and shield are worth running, tbh

[wise summit]

it's possible they're trying to play defensive with eldridge since illustrious has synergy with that to protect from enterprise but it's not that good

[lime rivet]

Which is rarely the case

[spiral hull]

Either what Syanda said or they're running Eldridge

[lime rivet]

Frontline depends on what you want to accomplish

[nova storm]

I run Illus cause I just want to run her XD

[devout gust]

so with uss team i dont need to invest in nagato down the line

[lime rivet]

Stalling frontline for your backline to slaughter, you run juneau, eldridge, fortkai, maybe belfast

I.e. stuff with damage evasion

[devout gust]

once i get my equipment set up i want a good pvp team to get nice ranking

[solar coral]

javelin can be used to stalling?

[lime rivet]

This is for now - as more ships are added, pvp meta will shift

Javelin is....eh.

[spiral hull]

Jav is decent in hms even though she doesn't offer utility to others

Outside hms don't even bother

[lime rivet]

can she? Yeah. should she? No

[wise summit]

I consider Eldridge to be basically necessary for frontline in Lexington at least, because everyone and their dad is running some form of Enterprise (generally sodak/wa/e) and getting a bad proc lineup means your frontline is gone in the first 30 seconds otherwise

[hard citrus]

What about:
-long island (striking first) / ark royal / enterprise

-yuugure / fortune / helena

[solar coral]

i see thx

[lime rivet]

Do not run light carriers in pvp

They will die. They will die fast

[charred sable]

With Washington + South Dakota being BBs, vanguards die pretty fast so fights will almost always end up as main fleet vs main fleet. As a result, the vanguard's job is to delay and ensure their main fleet has more HP when the final showdown happens.

[lime rivet]

Going one ship down early on is a death sentence

[wise summit]

Helena sees play in Sodak/Wash/E because of the burst potential, if you're having trouble with some matchups because of bad gear or whatever that's a good way to assure yourself of wins if you're willing to reset a bit

[wintry lance]

I used Hood/Enterprise/Illustrious because That's What I Had™ for good ships

But now I've got an HMS fleet

[devout gust]

is ayanmi kai good for pvp once i get her retrofitted

[spiral hull]

Aya Kai is ok

[wise summit]

aya kai is currently a niche pick, very bursty but unreliable

[lime rivet]

Helena radar + Lucky E timed right with a battleship barrage can basically wipe a frontline in one strike...but requires luck

[spiral hull]

Not amazing but shes fun to use

[hard citrus]

Useless

[nocturne silo]

@lime rivet true. I always bring Belfast and Cleveland for pvp and always die fast at almost 1 minutes

[lime rivet]

Aya kai is not yet good for pvp

[charred sable]

This assumes you are fighting 11k+/10k+ fleets. At lower power scores the meta is slightly different, but you will eventually get to 13k/12k power scores

[wise summit]

if your meta has a lot of helena + enterprise, invest in Eldridge

[spiral hull]

Or use your own

[bleak ember]

Belfast + Eugene is a good pair for pvp

[ionic hill]

how does one get extra pvp points

[lime rivet]

Fuuuuuck no

[charred sable]

With the current practical max being around 13.5k/13k assuming you are running +10 PvP gear

[lime rivet]

Eugen is not good for pvp

[spiral hull]

@ionic hill by having a bigger rank gap between the one you are fighting and yourself

[bleak ember]

Most em are usually buffed up to the max

[ionic hill]

what if you win all your matches but still cant get fleet admiral

[lime rivet]

Heavy cruisers at the moment seriously lack evasion. Which means they take craploads of damage

[hard citrus]

Do not put prinz or takao please

[lime rivet]

Do not put them.

[chrome grove]

Is this defense fleet good enough ?

[bleak ember]

Takao in pvp sucks

[spiral hull]

That means you need to understand how to play timed PvP, and not just play for win

[wise summit]

I don't recommend using an enterprise comp if you see a lot of enemy enterprise comps unless you like watching 2 enty race to see who fails to proc

[lime rivet]

@chrome grove yeah, just work on your equipment and power

[charred sable]

Contrary to popular belief, Takao will not give you 4s EZ wins in PvP

Do not use her

[spiral hull]

I'd replace ent with hood on that, but it works anyway

[bleak ember]

What about Leander Kai? Any good?

[spiral hull]

Assuming you have hood

[hard citrus]

Leander shit

[lime rivet]

Leander kai is okay for now. Semi-meta for a CL HMS frontline

[spiral hull]

Leander is fine in hms, but her smoke timing isn't as favorable as Belfast to counter CVs

[lime rivet]

Her smoke staggers with Belfast pretty nicely for good damage evasion in the initial torpedo strike

[azure aurora]

Just pause and leave

[nova storm]

My Resident Sleeper team..

[charred sable]

Get used to fights like these

[wise summit]

Yeah that's why I run hood in my sodak

[lime rivet]

Edin/Leander/Belfast is the semi-meta frontline for a HMS offensive vanguard

[wise summit]

Hate that stupid enty standoff crap

[lime rivet]

But edin and leander eventually get powercreeped

[chrome grove]

How to really counter enty though ?

[hard citrus]

Edin leander is pretty shit

[lime rivet]

Snipe enty

[wise summit]

Enty counter = eldridge

[lime rivet]

I regularly hit top ten with edin leander

[spiral hull]

Edin LeaKai Bel is good for chill fights but at higher rank it becomes annoying with them

[devout gust]

so how long will sodak and washi be meta for

[azure aurora]

Till nagato

[nova storm]

Probably until we get the more cancer NAKAGA..

[lime rivet]

Pretty much forever? It's comparable to nakaga

Frontlines is a different issue

[azure aurora]

Comparable ? Really ?

[ionic hill]

guys

[spiral hull]

They can win but it's less win rate with edinleanderbel than with the cockroach and martyr imo

[ionic hill]

seafang or hellcat?

[devout gust]

so once nagato comes out switch to nagato

[lime rivet]

Yeah, comparable.

[charred sable]

The Washington meta will stay until Nagato comes. Then you will see a mix of Washington/South Dakota/Duke of York and Nagato/Akagi/Kaga teams

[wise summit]

Nakaga will add diversity to this all sodak meta and don't forget not everyone will have the event ships

[spiral hull]

Hellcat/vf17 should be your PvP fighters of choice

[wise summit]

They probably won't be competitive without them though

[lime rivet]

HMS is the one that'll really be in flux

[ionic hill]

i see

[spiral hull]

Dork when

[lime rivet]

Duke of York and Monarch will replace warspite

[bleak ember]

What about lexsara ?

[lime rivet]

Lexsara is meh

[ionic hill]

sara kai sure

[lime rivet]

Sara kai sure, but there's a synergy problem

[ionic hill]

i wouldnt recommend lexsara since their 2nd skill overlaps each other and doesnt stack

[charred sable]

Also keep in mind the meta will be very dependent on whether or not we get lvl 120

[bleak ember]

Ohhhh

[spiral hull]

Oh yeah talking abt HMS, I need to show u something syanda

[charred sable]

Because stat scaling change

[devout gust]

so basically dont do event gatchas until nagato basically

[wise summit]

CAs will enter meta if we get 120 😄

[spiral hull]

[lime rivet]

Bigbrain.jpg

[ionic hill]

lol

warspite replace QE

[bleak ember]

Lmao

[charred sable]

CAs right now are very weak due to low evasion, but that changes when you scale stats up to 120

[wise summit]

well if you never do event gachas until nagato comes out you're going to have more cubes than you can get gold to spend probably, we don't know when she's coming

[spiral hull]

That changes when Sendai and Aurora drop by to fuck enemy CL/DDs

[bleak ember]

I assume Minneapolis is also not Good for PvP

[azure aurora]

[wise summit]

no CA is currently meta* in PvP

[charred sable]

Cubes should never be the limiting factor

[lime rivet]

@charred sable not just that. Aurora also fucks shit up

[hard citrus]

[chrome grove]

What should I equip on juneau and eldridge to make the most out of them for pvp

[charred sable]

But that's a different topic

[odd schooner]

CA needs the 120 stats to shine

Cause evasion

[spiral hull]

Ppl be too busy staring at auroras goods and they forget to dodge

[odd schooner]

Ay yeh

Thicc thighs

She's a normal light build right

Not in event

[charred sable]

@chrome grove this is my personal setup for the two. Not ideal but works well

[spiral hull]

Ya afaik not event

[wise summit]

eldridge needs +1000 hp because she's a DD, I put pearl and toolkit on her personally, some guides advise boiler?

[lime rivet]

Juneau uses her standard loadout. 127mm twin gold, quint gold torps, best AA gun. Might want to put a torpedo bulge or toolbox on her to make sure she dies at an opportune time instead of getting wiped too early

[odd schooner]

Oxytorp

[nova storm]

What, Oxy torp on juneau?

[bleak ember]

Oxy torpedo on aya

[lime rivet]

It's...debateable whether you want to put pearls tears on juneau. Some people do for monster heal, some people don't incase of overheal

@nova storm what?

[charred sable]

My Juneau never dies during the first round

[spiral hull]

Oxytorp goes on whoever u want it to go on tbh, it's a personal preference

[lime rivet]

Oh yeah, thay

[nova storm]

I really just don't see Juneau as a damage dealer to have Oxy torp..

[lime rivet]

Oxytorp just goes on wherever

[hybrid obsidian]

finally

[lime rivet]

Unless you're running a specific torp focused fleet

[charred sable]

The oxy torpedo is there really just for the power score boost :P

[spiral hull]

None of the vanguard is a dmg dealer in pvp

[lime rivet]

(Which isn't meta on EN yet)

[spiral hull]

By that logic you won't use oxytorp there at all

[lime rivet]

We don't have magtorps either so eh.

[odd schooner]

I used the badge on her to let her live a lot longer since my 2nd and 3rd won't sink until she does anyway. Also her AA skill helps a lot

[charred sable]

She doesn't use it and none of my vanguard are offensive anyway

[bleak ember]

I saw sourhiry combo once

[lime rivet]

Badge on juneau why

Put it on a backline

[odd schooner]

My backline are on double sg

[spiral hull]

Badge effect dies when it's holder dies iirc

[odd schooner]

Fcr sg

[spiral hull]

You don't want that on the one u want dying first

[lime rivet]

Give the sg to juneau, badge on a backline

[odd schooner]

i could do that too

[charred sable]

Juneau's gear really doesn't matter tbh. She is just there to die for you

[wise summit]

I put badge on sodak just for the little extra evasion too

[bleak ember]

Is North Carolina any good with someone in PvP?

[lime rivet]

Not really

[wise summit]

Juneau can do non-negligible AA damage

[devout gust]

so im going to go with hood for third slot for backline

[spiral hull]

Vanguard's there to stall and all, but their gears do still matter

[wise summit]

all the frontlines contribute enough that it's unwise to completely ignore them vis a vis damage potential but definitely focus your backline gear first

[spiral hull]

Juneau with her trash fp still does a-ok dmg

She's using HE gun in a cl/dd meta

[odd schooner]

I do care about my juneau the most since I'm trying to avoid overheal

[lime rivet]

Nice modifiers, too

[charred sable]

I mean, yes, damage is damage, but just don't over focus on the front and focus mainly on gearing your backline

[spiral hull]

That is tru

[charred sable]

Unless you are waiting for magnetorpedoes and wanna Ayayaya everyone away

[odd schooner]

I'm far done with gears

The event did gave a chance to raise affection on juneau and fortune too

[lime rivet]

Ultimatecancer

Seal of approval

[spiral hull]

13k van

Are they married

Mine at like 12.5 or so

[odd schooner]

My fortune is still at 120/200

[spiral hull]

Im using bulge and lunchbox tho I guess

[hard citrus]

Why everyone put belfast ?

[odd schooner]

Her smoke is nice

Against akaga fleets

[hard citrus]

Yea just for akaga

[wise summit]

I don't run belfast anymore since everyone's sodak/wash on my server and for the outliers sodak/wash tends to beat akaga even without belfast frontline

[hard citrus]

Sodak ?

[spiral hull]

South Dakota

[odd schooner]

South dakota

[buoyant parrot]

Hello there

[odd schooner]

Ok so the sg works. It affects torp accuracy?

[hard citrus]

But sodak is useless because her skill proc when there is no burst damage

[ionic hill]

i have question

why is tbtsk not recommended for pvp gear

[odd schooner]

Ap shells

You want HE cause CL/DD vanguard

[ionic hill]

i see

[spiral hull]

@odd schooner it increases all accuracy

@hard citrus sodak isn't useless because she soaks dmg with Washington in team, is invulnerable for 5s when ironbottom procs and she increases washi's dmg

And yeah, light armour gets roasted by HE

Tbtsk is still good on standard CLs since it pierces, so it's a debateable topic

But Belfast and Atlanta class use HE guns hands down

[odd schooner]

Let me check if 410mm fcr is under Belfast smoke

[hard citrus]

But how she can soak

[spiral hull]

Decent hp, aegis (lol), Washington's blue skill

U ever see a ryuusei enty ready to wreck your flag, just to do nothing?

[hard citrus]

Washignton skill proc when sodak is below 30% hp and sodak skill is off with the timing

[spiral hull]

And when does sodak drop below 30% hp?

[devout gust]

so i think i can get my pvp fleet ready in a few weeks

[odd schooner]

410mm + gold fcr falls under Belfast smoke

But 410mm without fcr is past the timer

I see

[devout gust]

what is the best washington main gun

[spiral hull]

Where's the guy gone .-.

@devout gust 406mm mk6 usually

[devout gust]

what rarity

[odd schooner]

Purple

[devout gust]

i got one

[odd schooner]

Gold is normal shells so it's a no go while 406mk6 is HE

[hard citrus]

Im here

[odd schooner]

Check if it's mk6

[odd schooner]

Yep

You could also try 410 if you want to desync with enemy Eldridge operation rainbow

But that's after you've adjusted in using Washington fleet

[devout gust]

its going to take a while to set up the fleet

like a month or 2

auxiliary gun should be

[ionic hill]

so for BBs, twin or triple?

main gun

for wash/sodak

[bleak osprey]

finally a pvp channel for us pvp degenerates

[proud pier]

[fresh vale]

Triple i would say

[devout gust]

purple

[odd schooner]

Depends what you need.

Dmg and radius? Triple 406mm mk6
Desyncing on Lucky E/Operation Rainbow and faster main guns? T2 Twin 410mm

[fresh vale]

you meant twin 410, right?

[odd schooner]

Yeah. I added t2 cause they might use the gold one

[fresh vale]

OH right

that thing

T2 is the blue one, tho

[hard citrus]

What do you think, i put yuugure or benson for my long iisland ark royal and enterprise

[bleak osprey]

throw that fleet out

or at least long island

i bet u have smth btr

[hard citrus]

?

[bleak osprey]

long island is useless

[hard citrus]

But she proc +15% dmg for others carrier

[bleak osprey]

but she has shit stats

that 15% bump is not worth a slot by herself

[delicate shore]

Sup nibbaz

[hybrid tendon]

just tried out the confetti gun

its hilarious

[delicate shore]

[lime rivet]

@delicate shore chat rules still apply in here. Do not use racial slurs

[knotty river]

Herro how to be op op in pvp

[bleak osprey]

git gud literally

dont loose anyth

dont miss anyth

[delicate shore]

[knotty river]

Welp I missed a reset today

[delicate shore]

I missed a match

Rip

[hearty talon]

What ship can i use in a HMS fleet vanguard with bel and edin?

[bleak osprey]

Je

or Fort Kai

[knotty river]

Is a hms fleet good

[bleak osprey]

hms is cancer tbh

[hearty talon]

Je?

[knotty river]

Why tho

Jeneau

Or smt

How to spell

[hearty talon]

Ooh

Juneau

[knotty river]

Ye that

[hearty talon]

But

Isn’t she murican?

[knotty river]

I dunno I saw guides recommending her too

[bleak osprey]

her skill plus pearls tears is essential for any BB focused backline

/wiki Juneau

[strange moat]

Z23 Sensei

Azur Lane Wiki

Multiple results found

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Juneau
https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Juneau/History

Nov 28, 2018, 12:42 PM

[hearty talon]

K ty!

[knotty river]

I just run akaga like a pleb

[bleak osprey]

same

enkaga makes quick work of anyth

[knotty river]

Plus I don't have qe anyways

Am waiting for hood to one day come to me

[hearty talon]

When Nagato will be available we’ll see only akaga + nagato

[knotty river]

That's a good team

I want nagato

Am saving

Is 100 wisdom cubes enough

[hearty talon]

Me too

[bleak osprey]

imo hms is outclassed by both enkaga and wasd rn

[hearty talon]

I don’t think so

[knotty river]

What's wasd

Wait

[bleak osprey]

they're still cancer when both main and front is 13k tho

[knotty river]

Washi and sodak

???

[bleak osprey]

yups

[knotty river]

Lmao I don't play up in 13k 13k

I play in 10k 10k

[delicate shore]

Akaga loses to HMS in my experience

Until nagato comes out

[knotty river]

[bleak osprey]

@delicate shore well tbh, any of the 3 meta will win almost any of the 3 meta cuz of attacker bonus. so..........

I run enkaga just cuz of speed and reliability is all

[delicate shore]

Yea but HMS will still give akaga a hard time

[knotty river]

But that depends on gear

And levels

And stats

[bleak osprey]

all meta fleets are cancer when done correctly

[knotty river]

And rng

[delicate shore]

My akaga is 200 affection

Full bis

[livid fractal]

Good at attack but bad at defense

[knotty river]

Hms or akaga

[delicate shore]

HMS is better on defense imo

I've had to reset against maxed out HMS fleets while using akaga

[knotty river]

Don't u need to reset most of the time anyways

[bleak osprey]

then ur akaga sucks

[knotty river]

LMAO

[delicate shore]

Don't be salty lmao

I have all comps

[bleak osprey]

im not salty, and i bet youre running hood with that akaga too

[delicate shore]

[livid fractal]

Washsodakent best def fleet

[delicate shore]

Yeah I was but I used ent for a while as well

[bleak osprey]

wasd is best defence fleet is true

[knotty river]

doesn't have ent

[lime rivet]

The problem.with facing a HMS defense fleet is that depending on positioning, they can wipe one half of an akaga team, which really neuters them

[knotty river]

[steady ravine]

Have I reached peak cancer?

[delicate shore]

Exactly

[bleak osprey]

that night of the iron bottom is killer

[livid fractal]

Have a Juneau vanguard, pretty solid

[lime rivet]

Hood/Spite sniping is a pita to deal with when you run a carrier backline

[delicate shore]

That's why HMS fucks with akaga

[bleak osprey]

which is why i run ente with akaga

[delicate shore]

Until nagato can brute force them

[lime rivet]

Pretty much

[bleak osprey]

my foxes can usually get 4 strikes in before one of them dies

[knotty river]

Nagato op op

[bleak osprey]

then luckye handles the rest for me

[lime rivet]

Hood proc + spite will wipe one carrier in 2 akaga launches or 1 ent launch on average

That's assuming maxed

[delicate shore]

Yep

[knotty river]

I rarely see maxed hms fleets around my level

[delicate shore]

Maxed HMS is no joke

[bleak osprey]

hmmm, i have never used hms on attacking tho. is the situtation you described with atker bonus?

[lime rivet]

And not assuming a freak accident where both hood and warspite land all their shots on the bote they're sniping, which will oneshot akaga after one launch and oneshot ent before she launches

[knotty river]

I usually see lots of other meta

Like hood

Or washi sodak

[delicate shore]

Not even attacking

They can still snipe your shit on defense

[lime rivet]

The latter is more of an attacker situation, but the former can happen on defence

[delicate shore]

Lol

[lime rivet]

Maxed Hood fires at 15 seconds

[knotty river]

What abt maxed hms vs maxed hms

Who will win

[delicate shore]

You either gonna have to lose one fox or E

[knotty river]

[delicate shore]

Right off the bat

[hearty talon]

Imagine hood with 305 mm guns...

[bleak osprey]

hmm, i've never fought a hms that did that before tho.

[lime rivet]

@knotty river whoever's hood procs more + who has better shot landing rng

[knotty river]

[delicate shore]

12.7k is the sweet spot for HMS

Backline

[bleak osprey]

@knotty river mirror matches generally atker wins due to 20% atker bonus

[knotty river]

And then the attacker gets terrible rng

[bleak osprey]

yea like when my ente doesnt proc luckye twice while opponnet procs twice

[delicate shore]

Also the reason I stopped using ent akaga is cuz they lose straight up to akaga hood

[knotty river]

Once my opponent proced lucky e consecutively and I nearly lost

[delicate shore]

Lol

[knotty river]

[lime rivet]

It really boils down on the main battery rng for HMS on HMS mirror.matches

If one side loses their warspite or hood before the other, they're screwed

[bleak osprey]

i have never lost to akaga hood lol, what vanguard are you running?

[delicate shore]

Juneau fortune bel

[knotty river]

Why none of the starters

[bleak osprey]

and there you go. akaga is offensive and speed based. why are you trying to stall?

[knotty river]

[delicate shore]

I've had the best results with that vanguard

Offensive vanguard don't do Jack compared to the backline

Negligible dmg at best

[knotty river]

I use Helena, clevebae and laffey kai

Is that gud or bad

[delicate shore]

Better to keep backline healthy

[bleak osprey]

offensive vanguard is good against defensive vanguard, opp cant stall for shit if their vanguard already died

[delicate shore]

I mean they're not bad but I definitely wouldn't say they're the best choice

[bleak osprey]

i run ayaya, laf and cleve.

[lime rivet]

Wat

[bleak osprey]

different play choices i guess

[knotty river]

Ayayaya I no hab

[delicate shore]

Lol

[knotty river]

[lime rivet]

How are you winning with that frontline

[delicate shore]

Lmaoo

Syanda savage

[knotty river]

Me or

[bleak osprey]

i was top 100 last season and i miseed about 4 matches so..... u tell me

[delicate shore]

Top 100

Try top 10

[bleak osprey]

yes yes, you're top 10 i get that

[lime rivet]

we're top 10

[bleak osprey]

im trying this season, i just said i missed matches

[lime rivet]

And frankly, that frontline is pretty arse.

[knotty river]

[livid fractal]

[knotty river]

Y'all op damn

[bleak osprey]

good on atk tho imo

[lime rivet]

No.

[knotty river]

I'm only top 300

[bleak osprey]

well, i often win with vanguard still alive so......

[lime rivet]

Ayanami doesn't get the current meta boosts that are on EN at the moment. No magtorps, no nagato, no jintsuu kai. That she does anything is pure luck

Laffey kai in pvp is...well

Fragile offensive DD. Again, sheer luck she doesn't get obliterated

[knotty river]

Laffey Kai is cute so she gets a space on my pvp team

[delicate shore]

I mean you could win with any fleet tbh

[bleak osprey]

she does shit ton dmg during opening, laf kai often survives more than cleve in my experience so...........

[lime rivet]

Cleveland has good stats, but doesn't synergise at all

[knotty river]

[lime rivet]

So frankly speaking, you've been lucky to place at all running a frontline like that

[bleak osprey]

well im just trying to kill oppo vangard first, nth wrong with that.

[knotty river]

What's the recommended front-line for akaga then

[lime rivet]

There's nothing wrong with trying to kill opposing vanguard first, I agree. But the ships you're using to do it with is hella inefficient.

[delicate shore]

I'd use Helena at least

For e

[lime rivet]

I run an offensive frontline HMS fleet myself. It's rare, but a complete bitch to fight

[bleak osprey]

I am getting consistent results against current meta vanguard comps so until I find smth that kills the enemy faster im not really willing to change

[delicate shore]

[livid fractal]

Always have Belfast for pvp

[knotty river]

[lime rivet]

Helena, Belfast does what your vurrent frontline does, but better.

[bleak osprey]

hel is one of the first to drop when aya fires off some torps

consistently

[lime rivet]

If your helena and belfast aren't performing as well as ayanami and laffey, no offense, but you're doing it wrong.

[livid fractal]

Put anti torp bulge tbh

[bleak osprey]

anti-torp on pvp?

[lime rivet]

Recluse generally has the right idea for an akaga frontline for now - basically a stall frontline so akaga strikes can keep launching

This all changes when Nagato and Jintsuu Kai show up

[bleak osprey]

and btw, no offence too, im not trying to stir shit here, just having a discussion

[lime rivet]

Torp bulge don't work on air torps, which is where the bulk of the damage comes

Just standard toolbox/sg for evasion, really.

[bleak osprey]

tbh, i dl the idea of the stalling frontline for enkaga due to the fact that akaga always drop HP very fast, which why i focused on speed.

[lime rivet]

Then you've missed the point of why people use Akaga

[bleak osprey]

i did hit no1 pvp last season mid-season if that counts for smth. so im pretty my comp is not that shit.

[hallow birch]

How does a Enty/Washington/Hood backline with helena/Belfast/Laffey sound?

[lime rivet]

That doesn't count for anything, it's easy to hit no. 1 mid season

[knotty river]

[bleak osprey]

oh 😦

[knotty river]

Why no sodak wit washi

[livid fractal]

What matters is gensui

[lime rivet]

All you need to do is keep killing leftmost opponent and you're guaranteed no. 1 if you didn't miss a session so far

[knotty river]

[hallow birch]

sodak nearly ready at lvl 91, also her aegis is still in training. Is there any improvement I can make?

[bleak osprey]

im trying to hit that only managed top 50 by end season so far

[knotty river]

Sounds p meta to me but I'm noob at pvp soooo

[hallow birch]

Laffey seems to be fragile but she deals quite a good amount of dmg before she sinks so I don't know of a better alternative

[bleak osprey]

im pretty i could have hit top 10 if i didnt miss some excercises last season if my math is correct

[knotty river]

Laffey Kai or ayayaya Kai for pvp tho

[lime rivet]

The alternative is not running a destroyer

[delicate shore]

If I had to choose it'd prob be aya

[hallow birch]

Hmm who to replace then?

[knotty river]

Who to run tho

[delicate shore]

For the chance to cheese

Lol

[hallow birch]

Prinz Eugen?

[lime rivet]

Nooooo

[knotty river]

Ooh would minne work

[delicate shore]

No

[knotty river]

With washi

[lime rivet]

Nooooooooooo

[knotty river]

And sodak

[delicate shore]

Not minne

[bleak osprey]

CA in PVP?

[delicate shore]

Lool

[knotty river]

D'aw

[lime rivet]

No CAs in EN PVP

Periodm

[livid fractal]

What I'm using right now for defense

[knotty river]

Uhhhh

[hallow birch]

[knotty river]

Who else

[livid fractal]

Still wondering how well it will do to delay enemy when rank rush is up

[knotty river]

Ooh right eldridge

[bleak osprey]

now im about to trigger ya'll again, I ran wichita before LafKai dropped

[knotty river]

She would work right

[delicate shore]

Wichita is bad

[knotty river]

[delicate shore]

For pvp

[lime rivet]

Wichita on def = free win

[bleak osprey]

def fleet dun matter anyway right?

[lime rivet]

Uhhhhhh

Yes

[delicate shore]

Depends

[knotty river]

I once ran into a team with Maryland and colorado on their backline

[lime rivet]

Yes it does

[hallow birch]

Hmm Takao ok replacement for Laffey?

[livid fractal]

It matters when 2 days 12 hours is up

[lime rivet]

@hallow birch no CAs

[delicate shore]

Takao is prob worse than laffey

Lol

[knotty river]

My laffey beat a married takao many times

[lime rivet]

Takao is like, one of the worst choices

[bleak osprey]

why does def fleet matter？

[livid fractal]

Def fleet is just delay fleet tbh

[lime rivet]

Because if you want to hit top 10, you have to manage your defence fleet

[bleak osprey]

i see plenty of meme fleets in top 10 tho..

[livid fractal]

Where people have to reset a lot of times, then they miss AotF

[delicate shore]

Meme fleets are good early I think

So you can drop faster

[lime rivet]

Yep

[delicate shore]

And farm more pts

[lime rivet]

Drop fast, farm points

Then switch to a monster fleet for overnight defence

[delicate shore]

Lel

[lime rivet]

You can generally see people.switching to meme fleets about a couple hours before rollover

Then after rollover, out comes the 12k fleets

[bleak osprey]

oh, and @lime rivet how do u manage your pvp timings? I always cant get anyone to do their exercises in my pvp lineup even when i wait the whole day lmao.

and i have to clear 5 exercise before bedtime which is rn lmao

[lime rivet]

I just keep checking

[bleak osprey]

i check every 20mins 😦

[livid fractal]

Reset

[delicate shore]

If that person doesn't move in an hour

[livid fractal]

[delicate shore]

I just use that attack

And wait for the next

[bleak osprey]

so attack every hour?

[delicate shore]

Depends how long until next reset

Tbh

[lime rivet]

Generally around 2-3 hours, I guess

[delicate shore]

Yeah unless it's like the mid day reset

You only have 6 hrs between the two

[bleak osprey]

your mid-day is my 4am

[lime rivet]

Wake up at 4am then

[bleak osprey]

[delicate shore]

[bleak osprey]

if i hit gensui this season will ya'll stop calling my vanguard shit?

[lime rivet]

Big thonk

[delicate shore]

You can get gensui with any mediocre fleet

With enough sandbagging

[bleak osprey]

so................. bascially anyth goes in pvp eh?

[delicate shore]

Attack bonus helps a lot

[lime rivet]

Pvp here is luck based and with infinite resets, it's super easy to cheese anyway

[bleak osprey]

thats what i have been saying, my vanguard survives and deal dmg to enemy backline too.

cuz of atker bonus

[livid fractal]

I tried having a mirror match, pretty much even for me, so 20% attack bonus isn't that much

[lime rivet]

Your vanguard just means you'll take longer on average for your matches than everyone else chasing gensui

End of the day, it's still a terrible vanguard to run comparatively.

[bleak osprey]

i win most matches in a minute or so... or is that slow compared to the meta fleets?

[delicate shore]

I think someone said that if you go to 50% hp in a PvP match

[lime rivet]

At rollover

[delicate shore]

You'd lose in a fair fight

[lime rivet]

1 minute is enough to drop ranks even after a victory

[delicate shore]

^

[lime rivet]

Like, i had an unexpectedly tough battle.today

[delicate shore]

A lot of ppl rushing gensui

[grand sluice]

[bleak osprey]

so... 1min per win is slow for pvp?

[lime rivet]

Started at rank 5, took just over a minute to kill opponent, won, came out, was at rank 9

Refreshed, then i'm down to rank 23

Now i'm sitting somewhere in the thousands

30-45 seconds is how fast a meta fleet can wipe

[delicate shore]

Lol

[lime rivet]

2 ent strikes, or 2-3 akaga strikes

[bleak osprey]

oh.

huh..

[lime rivet]

Or 3 salvoes in a hms fleet

[delicate shore]

I've been using 410s on my wasd

[bleak osprey]

im doing smth very wrong then if 45secs is the usual timing

[delicate shore]

For faster launch

[bleak osprey]

is 2 ent strikes not 1min?

[lime rivet]

Lucky E + Helena proc can wipe a vanguard in ONE airstrike

[bleak osprey]

i did not count

[lime rivet]

Follow up with an akaga strike.and game over

[delicate shore]

Ent and Helena is pretty sick

[lime rivet]

Or backline shelling

[bleak osprey]

but the thing for me is helena does not survice long enough for her skill to proc

[delicate shore]

Put her in the middle then xd

[delicate shore]

Give her beaver badge

[lime rivet]

If your helena is not surviving for proc, you've built her wrong

[livid fractal]

Akaga can proc 3x in 1 min while Enty is 2

[lime rivet]

Yup

[grand sluice]

The Helena strat can get you only so far before it starts failing.

[livid fractal]

I think 23 sec fastest for Enty

[delicate shore]

Akaga shits on ent

[grand sluice]

It really does.

[lime rivet]

Yep

Akaga launches at what, 11 seconds?

[grand sluice]

when Nagato comes out, then you got a really bad meta coming.

[livid fractal]

12

[delicate shore]

And if you have hood with the gold fcr

[lime rivet]

12 sounds right

[delicate shore]

With akaga

[grand sluice]

Syanda, with my CN meta planes, 11 seconds.

[lime rivet]

Hood with twin autoloaders fires at 15, gold fcr drops that down

[bleak osprey]

but hel always dies when akaga strikes cuz my aya -40% off her health with torps beforehand

[lime rivet]

attacker bonus

And that assumes your torps actually land

[bleak osprey]

so if i ran hel as an attacker i'll have better results?

[delicate shore]

Prob

[lime rivet]

@grand sluice for context, his frontline currently is Cleve/Aya/Laffey

[livid fractal]

2 Dd isn't that good

[grand sluice]

Okay so this is me not shitting on characters.

Laffey isn't that good.

[livid fractal]

They die really fast

[grand sluice]

Like, I'd use a Belfast or something.

[lime rivet]

That's what I've been saying.

[delicate shore]

I think we've all been saying that

Lol

[livid fractal]

Having a higher fleet damage doesn't mean your fleet is good btw

[grand sluice]

Like you know how I go like "Haha. Aya sucks." yeah no. She's pretty decent in PvP.

Laffey on the otherhand...

[delicate shore]

I would choose aya over laffey between the two

[lime rivet]

Aya's decent, yeah, just that she doesn't get her boosts at the moment. Once Jintsuu Kai and Aurora and Nagato are around though...

[bleak osprey]

but ard 50% of the time, laf and cleve is literally hitting enemy backline for me which is kinda impt when airstrikes makes enemy sodak proc iron bottom

[lime rivet]

Like we said

[grand sluice]

This is my current EN fleet. Enterprise, Hood, and Enterprise are changeable when I need to. My frontline is just temporary until Yat Sen and Hai Kais come out.

[lime rivet]

You can achieve that same situation faster using CLs in place of your DDs.

[bleak osprey]

okay, so i should throw laf and aya out, shld i keep cleve?

[lime rivet]

Eh

[grand sluice]

nah use Ayanami. She's still pretty strong.

[delicate shore]

I'd use Juneau over Cleve

Both have anti air mode

Juneau gives that sweet heal tho

[lime rivet]

He wants an offensive frontline, not a stall.one sooo

[delicate shore]

True

[grand sluice]

Laffey.... if I have like a Belfast or Juneau (if you have a tanky frontline)

[delicate shore]

Idk. Just that offensive vanguard haven't worked out very well for me

Esp with akaga ent

[lime rivet]

Offensive frontline in EN is basically either triple CL or 2CL1DD, with the DD being yuudachi or ayakai

[delicate shore]

I feel like they're too squish already

[livid fractal]

Replace ent with hood

[delicate shore]

Yeah I prefer akaga hood tbh

[lime rivet]

I should level my akaga

[delicate shore]

You should

[grand sluice]

zzz Nox keeps crashing when I try to pick on easy fights

[delicate shore]

Better to have all comps

[lime rivet]

Mate

I'm halfway through 2 married meta comps

[bleak osprey]

So.... Cleve, Ayaya, Hel?

[delicate shore]

I'm about to finish my 3rd

[lime rivet]

I am filthy

[delicate shore]

Just need to oath QE

I use to use that frontline

A loooong time ago

Lmao

[lime rivet]

Sadly

I'm restricting myself to single-nation fleets

[dull elm]

i dont use Cleve anymore anywhere

[livid fractal]

My attack fleet

[delicate shore]

Cleve is great in pve

Da fuq

You using double catas

Or btd

Lol

[dull elm]

i just use lower oil botes

[grand sluice]

I learned that I shouldn't trust the total power.

[livid fractal]

Catas xd

[delicate shore]

Why lol

[livid fractal]

[grand sluice]

Cause I can hit fleets that are 2k higher than me

[delicate shore]

Oil tank gives you touchdown dmg too

And makes your planes harder to kill

[grand sluice]

Because they use like, super strong equips that have a loooooooooooong reload.

Or they're squishy af.

[dull elm]

well no kidding rime we get 20% more dmg in attack

[delicate shore]

Or they're using that gold 410 gun

[grand sluice]

No it's like, I'll see Nakaga comps

[dull elm]

[grand sluice]

And they're like pushing 14000

And the Nagato fires super slow.

[delicate shore]

That's def double catas and btd

Oh

[lime rivet]

Quad cannons?

[delicate shore]

Not en

Lol

[livid fractal]

Yeah, my one oath ring is ready for Nagato

[delicate shore]

Nagato is gonna be a while

[grand sluice]

Or the Akaga uses 2x catapults and become super squishy lol

[delicate shore]

According to intern kun she's after subs

[grand sluice]

holy crap

that long?

[delicate shore]

Yeah

But who knows

We might get subs early

[livid fractal]

Well seeing how fast is the pace, it won't probably take that long

[delicate shore]

:warsh

Damn

[hot creek]

good. keep that boring ass meta away for as long as possible

[delicate shore]

Noo I want nagato

[grand sluice]

boring ass meta
everyone running enty hood

[delicate shore]

Lul

Im using wasd ent atm

[hot creek]

HMS, foxes, wasd. three meta comps

[dull elm]

better that than cancer ass nakaga meta

[delicate shore]

I mean they're still relevant even after nakaga I think

[grand sluice]

It's so easy to counter foxes

[delicate shore]

Apparently Essex counters nakaga

[grand sluice]

But people rather just complain it's broken

[delicate shore]

According to dunk

Lol

[grand sluice]

Okay I've faught a couple of Essex comps

They sorta suck.

[delicate shore]

Oh ok

Not my words

Lol

Who counters nakaga tho?

[grand sluice]

Tanky af frontline with a lot of evasion. lol

[delicate shore]

Yuki I presume

[grand sluice]

And then just raw power backline

[delicate shore]

[grand sluice]

Also, the Wash/SoDak comp is so flawed.

There's an obvious weak point to that comp.

[odd schooner]

The timing

[delicate shore]

Isn't wasd pretty solid atm tho?

I use 410s on wasd tho

[grand sluice]

Okay so here's why it's flawed imo

• South Dakota has to take a shit ton of damage
• Washington has to survive.

[odd schooner]

Isn't that the reason why washi has the badge

[uneven drift]

👀

[delicate shore]

Tbh I think I prefer double sg over beaver badge

[grand sluice]

And from experience, a lot of the time, Washington dies too quickly.

The only time I see it properly setup is when people put Washington at the top .

[delicate shore]

There's a diff between top and bot?

[grand sluice]

Top feels like it takes the least damage.

[livid fractal]

My experience battling a mirror

[delicate shore]

Use 410s

That's how you avoid that scenario

[livid fractal]

Wasdenty

[delicate shore]

Lol

I'm using wasd ent too

406 fires around the same time as lucky e in my experience

[odd schooner]

Ye 406

[delicate shore]

410 let's you get a couple shots in before she procs

[odd schooner]

No i mean 410

Double 410 actually hits a lot of things

[delicate shore]

Yep

[odd schooner]

And let burn do its job

[delicate shore]

410 > 406 rn

Esp with everyone using eld and ent

And the dmg isn't even that far off from the 406

[dull elm]

I dont use Enty much at all right now

yeah with those eldridges

[odd schooner]

Corsair buff is actually nice

She's just there to cover for you

[dull elm]

and you tend to end up in that dumb E vs E situation

[odd schooner]

E and E won't happen if you 410

[delicate shore]

^

[grand sluice]

Im not gonna lie, Eldridge looks good on paper.

On actuality, she's pretty bad.

[dull elm]

guess so

[odd schooner]

Her speed is

[dull elm]

♿

[grand sluice]

If you proc her passive quickly at the start

She really can't defend herself from airstrikes.

[delicate shore]

Lul

[dull elm]

use Eldridge vs Entys otherwise no

[odd schooner]

But current Es right now launches at 24s

[grand sluice]

That gives you 16 seconds to bring gunboats and proc her passive

And then Eldridge sits there and looks at planes.

[odd schooner]

She procs on the spot tbh

Just before fighter bombs hit

So we tried plan B

BBs with 410

[grand sluice]

Like, a lot of comps on paper are based on timing and certain conditions being met.

[dull elm]

does Eldridge have some kind of first rainbow proc cooldown or not?

[odd schooner]

@delicate shore you're using belfast right?

[delicate shore]

Ye

[odd schooner]

I assume you have the beaver on her

[delicate shore]

Yep

[odd schooner]

Simple calc actually spikes her eHP

Lmao

[delicate shore]

Wdym

[grand sluice]

Just hit em hard.

[delicate shore]

I have my pearl and beaver badge on bel

[odd schooner]

Sg + beaver

[delicate shore]

So bel is worse with beaver ?

[odd schooner]

Ah wait

I miscalculated

[grand sluice]

Bels better with Beaver lmao

[odd schooner]

I doubled the eva

[delicate shore]

[odd schooner]

[delicate shore]

Lol

[odd schooner]

But technically if we add her luck stat

It's high

[grand sluice]

I feel like if there was manual PvP, everyone would be trying to torpedo shotgun eachother.

[odd schooner]

Belfast has high luck

[delicate shore]

Wait when you say spike you mean better or worse?

[odd schooner]

Better

[hot creek]

if there was manual, i'd bring glowworm for fun time.

[delicate shore]

Ooo

[odd schooner]

She can be meatshield for fortune btw

[delicate shore]

I have fortune in the middle

[odd schooner]

Lets fortune last longer when they face backline

[delicate shore]

Idk if that helps at all

Tho

Lol

Yeah fortune mvp

[hot creek]

also if manual were a thing, you could just ram the shit out of Enty and her Lucky E won't help her avoid that lol.

[grand sluice]

oh man

I remember winning fights because of ramming

[hot creek]

yes, I always get excited when I have surviving vanguard vs a solo enty.

[livid fractal]

My Belfast survives and burns Enty

[grand sluice]

Seriously, manual control would be like:
Planes launch
Run to the back
Move foward
Dodge every air strike.

[livid fractal]

A PvP where both players are present and can manual control

[hot creek]

now that would be fun

[delicate shore]

Aya would be most used ship?

Lol

[dull elm]

lol i bet there would be shitload of draws

[hot creek]

glowworm meta plz

[grand sluice]

tfw i thought i was stupid and had homing planes, but it was the enemy enty that had it.

[livid fractal]

PvP will be a torp battle

[grand sluice]

Shotgun torps!

Hey, maybe Glowworm would be useable. lol

[hot creek]

l00d

[delicate shore]

Hot

[livid fractal]

Or this
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av34765832

[grave gale]

Pvp channel. Finally

I switched to wasd for a while but got tired of encountering lucky e duels so I went back to foxes. Foxes are much faster overall.

My defense is wasd + enty though. I have enough gold gear to gear out two backlines

Foxes aren't that great for defense.

[dull elm]

nah why even fret over def fleet comps?

peeps can beat them anyway if they want

[grave gale]

Because I like challenging players. I don't want to give them easy wins.

Even a defensive team can be an obstacle. I've ran into ones that gave me quite a bit of problem

and I have fully maxed fleets. A good defensive team with rng on their side can be a road block. Yes, they can reset till they win but that slows them down. Which is useful when you're rushing at the end of the season for admiral.

[dull elm]

I dont rush PvP i sandbag

Idk how much this actually works but i put worst def fleet during rush.

So hardcore fast rushers get sweats and attack your team and lose points.

So its easier to go past them after rush hour ends

[slow totem]

Test

[dull elm]

if only you know how much your def fleets gets attacked.

[slow totem]

We can’t, unfortunately

I like to put themed fleets for defense

Like HMS Noble Ladies - Royal Maids

Too bad Sheffield isn’t here yet.

[bitter escarp]

I usually put up fully geared defense fleets but with a touch of trolly weird shit

Like cranes or my current WASDPOW defense fleet

[hybrid tendon]

well i only put up geared defense when I am rushing gensui

🤔

oh wait, probably before that like 2 days

[slow totem]

Since there are so many players, I think tryhard defense fleet don’t matter, since people can just pick someone else/refresh.

[hybrid tendon]

still running akaga enterprise atm

[slow totem]

Plus attacker boost.

[hybrid tendon]

yea

dont really have any problem with most fleets

[bitter escarp]

Yeah my defense fleets are probably fairly easy to beat

[slow totem]

With the boost, you can beat Fully Oathed fleets consistently even with no oaths.

[bitter escarp]

It’s just fun putting the crane sisters or prince of Wales out there

Adds a lil bit of “woah” to whoever decides to attack my defense fleet

[hybrid tendon]

usually put up weird or rare units

[hybrid tendon]

like the double onis I spent 4 days farming

on world 8

[slow totem]

The NotRam and NotRem?

[bitter escarp]

You expected enterprise to fill that 3rd backline slot BUT IT WAS ME POW

[hybrid tendon]

I love the designs of IJNs

pretty creative

and you have to put strong defense fleet when rushing gensui

[grave gale]

There is no 100% win fleet though. No matter how good your fleet is, if rng isn't in your favor, you won't always beat a fully maxed defensive fleet. If you run wasd then you have the the match being decided by a lucky e duel with the opponent's enterprise (100% luck there). If you run foxes, you run the risk of encountering a fleet with so much AA that your foxes do shit for damage. Wasd together normally isn't enough to give foxes a tough time when they use Hood instead of Enty and use irregulars in their vanguard like Cleveland then it can become a roadblock for Foxes.

[slow totem]

My HMS deletes enty before she can even fire one air burst.

Brb upload screenshot

[bitter escarp]

What if hood doesn’t proc that one time you need her to

[slow totem]

Restart

[grave gale]

HMS's weakness is that its weaker than wasd. Wasd has the tankier BBs and can outlast your HMS ones. Hood is the only really good BB/BC in HMS.