pvp

[floral wave]

but im coping that fortune gets pushed out

[ocean quest]

so

[floral wave]

wait

if thats the case

[ocean quest]

in jintsuu-laffey-fortune

[floral wave]

why replace shima

replace fort

[ocean quest]

we'll see what people come up with

we've had laffey for like a couple of days

[prime gull]

Fortune meta was slept on for a long time, always liked her kit (it is the meta one?)

[ocean quest]

and apparently jinsuu-laffey-fortune counter jintsuu-shima-fortune

so

[torpid shuttle]

what counters jintsuu laffey fortune

[floral wave]

shes used currently only because she cancels enemy torpedoes

[ocean quest]

probably something without fortune since thetes less threatening torps there

[floral wave]

otherwise shes shit

[ocean quest]

but then that comp will possibly get shredded by 3x torp

[torpid shuttle]

so triple torp will counter anti-anti-torp

[ocean quest]

rock paper scissors but actually now

[torpid shuttle]

where's double torp

[ocean quest]

we'll see how it turns out in the end

[torpid shuttle]

pls let antiantitorp have the best overall winrate

[prime gull]

To beat the Jintsu i use:
Percy, NJ Vanguard
Ancho June and Sirius

[floral wave]

i mean

that doesnt work against proper fleets

with proper gear

[prime gull]

And sometimed shima when sirius fails, but its not a surefire. Kearsage is just too much

[feral orbit]

any critiques on vanguard gear?

[floral wave]

looks good

maybe another crossbow for jintsuu

but it doesnt matter much

[prime gull]

Crossbows dont stack right?

[floral wave]

blue gun musashi tho

they dont

but better stats

[ocean quest]

take sword for harbin

[floral wave]

just use 2 crossbows

[ocean quest]

nah

u want slash

level 3 slash removes torps

[finite fog]

Is 2 sword 1 hammer level 3 too

[prime gull]

The slash is helpful

[floral wave]

you dont get 3 anyway

[ocean quest]

it is

[floral wave]

with crossbow

[ocean quest]

you do with 2x sword 1x hammer

[floral wave]

yeah but then no crossbow

[ocean quest]

who needs xbow

[finite fog]

No planes

[floral wave]

hiryuu planes

[ocean quest]

with hiryuu being the only cv used

thats useless

[floral wave]

wait

[ocean quest]

vs possibility to remove torps

[floral wave]

laffey is apparently tanky, no?

[ocean quest]

vgs die instantly if they reach backliners anyway

[prime gull]

Her kit is

[floral wave]

wheres that fleetbuilder link

let me cook for a sec

[prime gull]

She has a barrier and less cannon dmg taken, and heals from your fleet launching airstrikes

From reading her skills she is perfect for Kearsage

Laffey has an AA debuff which help her proc her extra 8% dmg (is it total to 12%?)

[feral orbit]

https://renhex.github.io/AzurLaneFleet/?AFLD=No4VgTggGBGaA0BmeAORAmM0AsmBs%2B0iqEeJZ6C8GctCARAOyoCG7HDCOAugsEjoxq8PAiy4CRTEzFh68GvWaomHdl178ITaLWziMGKhLEZCxcfjPXE8QbGUt1G7jz4h4YWLuo5sdo5EVtLU5ogB1NBEjogqLqyaHoLelkh4wbBBUmlgVKiZ0XRxLGrqSfyCujgQ4kxI9EgQ6Zio5AgWCBDZUbpGJWwuSXyw7gCE0AB00ExjqAAmOKSs80A

[floral wave]

i have finished cooking

[feral orbit]

wait is it mk35 with oxy torps and tea torps with black torp or can you mix and match.

[floral wave]

mk35 doesnt need black torp

its magnetic already

so the only use would be to slow down first volley

[stable dawn]

richelieu obvs

[floral wave]

richelieu+flandre?

wait, flandre was the bad france?

so she gets shit buff

[ocean quest]

[floral wave]

ill use it

just need 5% more cdc2 for felix

and trust me thats harder to do than 100->125 sodak and mlb and 125 laffey

[stable dawn]

[floral wave]

idk about sodak loadout tho

[prime gull]

Based on what I have on hand, the Kear and laffey are untrained so those are how I would build them from a casual view.

[floral wave]

might need to consult nard about ir when the time comes

[ocean quest]

black aux felix torps taking 3 business days to arrive at the backline 🏃‍♂️

[floral wave]

good point

[ocean quest]

to disappear right before

[floral wave]

fuck the 20% avi dr then, black+tea laffey

[floral wave]

460 musashi is awful

[ocean quest]

:god:

[prime gull]

I know, it's to show a put together mass of non optimized from what I use normally (I have the guns for Musashi i just use the 460 for PvE normally)

A concept of what I would cram mindlessly if you will.

(I dont have my Kear maxed in anyway, could now, i have the means, also dont know the optimal set for her)

[floral wave]

optimal would be 457, tigercat, staag, hpfcr/table, manjuu/beaver/avi gas

[prime gull]

As for the rainbow dd gun if you ask, can get it, but im uncertain on its viability

[floral wave]

its the best dd gun currently

only loses to twin135 pompeo gun on medium armor

[prime gull]

Best for light armor and general use?

[floral wave]

its good anywhere so not a waste

against light and heavy

[floral wave]

its not that good only on the likes of shima/kawakaze/fortune meta

wish i had 2 mk7s

rip

[prime gull]

Just for fun

[floral wave]

i just realized i forgot manjuu in my cooked fleet

[ocean quest]

on helena

[prime gull]

I used the manjuu on Helena for the longest time..

(Damage control guy right?)

[floral wave]

its either sodak or laffey

[floral wave]

yeah

[prime gull]

Laffey tbh

[floral wave]

in current meta backline is more in threat of dying first

[prime gull]

Yeah, torpedoes homing and 3 shotting everyone

[torpid shuttle]

having a meta fleet is so nice

only have a few more +13s to make

[floral wave]

and then the meta changes

[stable dawn]

[feral orbit]

literally me making my +13 planes and then kearsarge and jin/fortune meta comes out

[prime gull]

At least they can be used for OpSi... Right? Guys!?

[neon bronze]

real

[scenic tendon]

This Beth dude made 3 +13 wyverns

[torpid shuttle]

i delayed +13 wyverns long enough so that i only need one

for hiryuu

[scenic tendon]

Same.

I don't have Shinano so.

[lusty hill]

I don't have +13 wyvern and I'm doing fine

[scenic tendon]

You are not

We all know that

[brazen socket]

If u said that during MSN a lie detector would've went off in your head

Even now it still would've went off

[late heath]

[pseudo copper]

Where +13 cargo for Kashino?

[late heath]

It’s so op it won’t show up on the list, it’s a +15

SSRUR++ tier

[scenic tendon]

Guys, is Guam good for pvp?

[brazen socket]

is pvp good for the heart

[lusty hill]

she's good for pvp in bed

[ocean quest]

very

[pseudo copper]

I pvp 1 on 1 with most of the eosers, very good exercise wise

[brazen socket]

outside of the radars, catapults beavers and stuff what would be the +13 prio for auxes?

[floral wave]

black/oxytorp, manjuu, pearl, wnt, feather, goldburn, wirbelsomething

[ocean quest]

just +13 everything 🧐

[torpid vortex]

insane

[pure tusk]

I didn't realise how powerful my formation was, decided to try pvp and just jumped from private to ensign

[lusty hill]

congrats

[pseudo copper]

How do I get out of semen rank?

[tacit ferry]

You mean seaman

[ocean quest]

i think he said what he said

[lusty hill]

[wicked surge]

Anything under aotn is a farm fest

[neon bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/tham-ngan-farming-plow-harvest-gif-17767136

[lusty hill]

inb4 meet reiver and himmel

[scenic tendon]

tham ngan

kiem ngan

pay ni

[floral wave]

pay yes

kear skin tomorrow

[scenic tendon]

no money

i bought 2 rings

[floral wave]

when

[scenic tendon]

2 days ago

[floral wave]

isnt a pack

[scenic tendon]

yeah

the pack

[floral wave]

coming tomorrow

[scenic tendon]

coming what

I have 17 gems left

[floral wave]

double ring pack

yeah but you just bought 2 rings for 1.2k

tomorrow 2 rings will be 980

[pseudo copper]

There is a ring pack rn no?

[scenic tendon]

we all know that 2 rings pack was added the previous maint?

[floral wave]

oh

WAIT

[scenic tendon]

bro living in ww2

[floral wave]

welp

i thought its coming 2nd week

[scenic tendon]

[floral wave]

still have 3 left so i wasnt in a hurry

[astral mortar]

Laffey II is just Gun Baiting Strategy.

However it's being countered by shimakaze's AOA

And torps

[stable dawn]

damn, laffey II is countered by shima?

[valid oxide]

Lafii might be the new anti-noob vanguard

[stable dawn]

idk I think noobs are more likely to lose to shima than give up due to laffey

[astral mortar]

Yes

[floral wave]

would you look at that, and i thought its laffey that counters torps

or at least isnt vulnerable to them

@astral mortar can you explain some more good sir

[astral mortar]

Only that. Also countered by Aircraft Carriers early.

[floral wave]

only what

what do you even base your theory on

[astral mortar]

It's only vulnerable to straight attacks without it's auto aim.

[floral wave]

?

[astral mortar]

Only Laffey II can counter Guns

Guam has also Skill that can damage not only vanguard, but bots too.

Like broadcasting thing

[floral wave]

what

im at a loss herr

here

[astral mortar]

On air broadcasting support skill

[floral wave]

no but seriously

where does it even come from

[astral mortar]

Where come from what?

[floral wave]

all your bullshit

where does it come from

[astral mortar]

I tried Laffey II but I have mentions

[valid oxide]

The goal is to use lafii to time them out

[astral mortar]

It's bunbun strikers can counter guns.

Because it's spawn able each 20 seconds

And spawns on start

[floral wave]

yeah i see you tried her

and test most important stuff for pvp

[astral mortar]

I tried Laffey II on PvP

That's why

[floral wave]

yeah i can see that

[valid oxide]

And guns are like 16s

[astral mortar]

But Shimakaze's AOA can counter bots

Yes

[floral wave]

why do you think that laffey2 is only her summons

[valid oxide]

Laffii has the funny haha damage cap

[astral mortar]

I have no other info about other ships that can summon those

[floral wave]

why are you so fixated on summons lmao

leave them alone

[stable dawn]

nah, looks like laffey II is bad guys that's a wrap

[brazen socket]

Did u forget laffey has 2 other skills or

[astral mortar]

You mean normal Laffey?

Or an Laffey II

[brazen socket]

Obviously laffey II

Anyways, laffeys value isnt only through her summons

And we don't need that kind of info nor testing, the one aspect of laffey that we want to look into the most is her blue skill

[valid oxide]

Manjuu is funny therefore I must run hyperstall

[fickle echo]

Do you know what else is funny?

||Enty||

[valid oxide]

Very silly, though I am undecided on whether Juneau would be better than fortM or ancho

[astral mortar]

But is Evasion matters on PvP?

[floral wave]

yes

[finite fog]

[light crystal]

How's the Laffey doing?

Sorta hard to let go of the Shima.

[lusty hill]

juneau

[prime gull]

I used this on Jin Fortune kear hiryuu, it seemed effective, although it might be luck and fighting suboptimal equipped ones.

Just reset until the torps miss the main fleet which is fairly quick and survive. Better than using shima I can say for sure

[boreal comet]

Wtf is up with all these hot takes today

[finite fog]

can't afford to reset in the last 5 min

[prime gull]

Its not that many resets, ill be honest, I dont know what a good counter implies

How many resets constitutes a good match up in pvp?

[whole salmon]

None if possible

But if it is a mirror fight, who knows

Mirror fights are hard to judge anyways

By mirror fight I means both sides running the exact same team with similar gear

[neon bronze]

past 3 BB meta

may i interest you in running Kearsarge instead of Vanguard

[prime gull]

Mine is not maxxed

I could but id rather after the event to save gold

[whole salmon]

Her survivability has proven to be effective in pvp

There’s 2 options with her currently, either taking Shima’s spot or be used with Shima

Laffey can take all positions

[neon bronze]

what about her equips then, HP and/or SPD auxes?

[whole salmon]

Without Shima then definitely speed

With Shima then who knows, you can add some offense items if you want to

[finite fog]

40 speed

[whole salmon]

Rafff even have some ideas of Laffey 2 main tank

[prime gull]

What your most succesful fleet? Out of curiosity. If you can say, average resets?

[whole salmon]

He’s certainly cooking

Laffey 2 can tank torps better than Anchorage, which is quite something

[prime gull]

Light armor does well vs torps

Also evasion helps a lot

[whole salmon]

That’s not the point

[neon bronze]

@floral wave yo, kear skin is l2d?

[neon bronze]

stacking evasion stat on a DD

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1177832408406556693.webp?size=48&name=xdd~1&quality=lossless

[whole salmon]

Whether you are light armor or evasion, it doesn’t matter

[prime gull]

Laffey has enough survivabilty to compete with Anchorage is what you meant?

[whole salmon]

You will get 1 shotted

Laffey’s 2 have the ability to limit the amount of damage that she takes to never exceed 10% of her HP

[prime gull]

Of course you wont stack evasion with DDs, its the natural eva they hav- nevermind

[whole salmon]

That’s the main reason how she could tank torps better than Anchorage

Anchorage could get 1 shotted

Even Musashi could get 1 shotted

But Laffey 2 won’t die in 30 shots

[prime gull]

Ive seen it happen

[light crystal]

[whole salmon]

Laffey 2 can be used in all positions

Some are running her main tank

You can run her middle

[light crystal]

Laffey as a tank eh

[whole salmon]

Or even run her off tank

[prime gull]

The real laffey survived like 6 kamikazes and 4 bombs

[whole salmon]

A level 8 Laffey 2 with skill level 1 can already tank better than level 125 Jintsuu Meta

[finite fog]

wrong laffey

[whole salmon]

Let alone a maxed level one

[light crystal]

So she can survive 10 instances of full KO DMG, basically?

[neon bronze]

pre-nerf lvl1/buff lvl 125

[whole salmon]

Some even running Laffey 2 level 1 as tank in chapter 15

[whole salmon]

30 instances

[light crystal]

[prime gull]

Now im confused

[whole salmon]

It doesn’t matter how much the damage is, Laffey 2 won’t die unless it is 30 hits

[prime gull]

I implied the right laffey sir

Are you saying there is 3 laffeys or am I overthinking again???

[whole salmon]

• 100% - 10% = 90%
• 90% - 9% = 81%
• 81% - 8.1% = 72.9%
• 72.9% - 7.29% = 65.61%
• 65.61% - 6.561% = 59.049%
• 59.049% - 5.9049% = 53.144%
• 53.144% - 5.314% = 47.83%
• 47.83% - 4.783% = 43.047%
• 43.047% - 4.307% = 38.742%
  ….

Quyet did the math on it as well

[light crystal]

So Manjuu Laffey 2 is troll AF?

[whole salmon]

Since the 10% HP cap isn’t on her max HP, it is on the current HP

So each time, it is limit to 10% of current

[prime gull]

Percentage based HP proc?

[light crystal]

[prime gull]

Wait no i didnt read maaaan

[whole salmon]

So yeah 30 KO hits to actually kill her

[light crystal]

Maybe I can lead Laffey, Shima Mid, and Juneau rear then.

[whole salmon]

Doesn’t matter if it is torps or BB shells

The disadvantage of not having Fortune Meta is ofc your backline is still unprotected

[light crystal]

Oh but Ancho has smoke to prottect VG too, so doesn't matter if Laffey is hard to kill if the other two just die. Hmm

So maybe I still want Ancho then

I suppose I could try full turtle and drop Shima, but I dunno

Maybe for Defence

[whole salmon]

If this was old meta during MSN days

You could build a bunker with Ancho Laffey Juneau

And your frontline essentially would survive for like 40 seconds

[stable dawn]

this was before the nerf though

since it's now capped to a minimum of 2.5% of her max HP

[prime gull]

Having read her skill properly for once has made me realize just how tanky she actually is

[stable dawn]

I'd drop Juneau and run FortuneM. Juneau dies way too inconsistently against torp comps to be viable in this meta. I've tried so many different setups and none of them proved consistent

Because the main issue is not actually Juneau dying early and healing very little

it's the fact that torpmemes will ignore Juneau and kill your backline directly

she will often outlive any BB without manjuu

except Musashi

[prime gull]

You cant heal whats dead

[light crystal]

[stable dawn]

even with double gyro

[light crystal]

btw, does Brah no longer play?

[brazen socket]

A lot of comps can beat the current torp meta, all of them still come down to resetting for rng which is why "it seems effective" doesn't really carry over to when you are in a time crunch

[stable dawn]

brah got banned on ALO

like 2 years ago

lol

[light crystal]

Did he, he was here this year iirc

[prime gull]

So its a consistency issue then

[stable dawn]

nah that was probably someone pretending to be him

there are a lot of people who meme on him

[light crystal]

[brazen socket]

Yes. this whole meta is a consistency issue lol

[stable dawn]

like Yukana

[light crystal]

I was gonna ping him about Laffey being like an ASSR Defender from counterside

[stable dawn]

[prime gull]

"Sure Ranger can out damage every carrier in the game, just proc her skills 25 times in a row"

[stable dawn]

RNGer

[light crystal]

Kitakami when. Imagine Kita spamming torps and hitting DMG cap on Laffey and killing her in 10s

[stable dawn]

kitakami = 25% chance to launch another wave of torps when you launch a wave of torps

torp loop

[light crystal]

[stable dawn]

[boreal comet]

Cursed emoji

[brazen socket]

[prime gull]

"Quick take off" but in torpedoes

[light crystal]

By the way Booger

I dided again, overcapped by 4 I think

I even put alarm on, I guess phone was too close so hit it while halfasleep

[stable dawn]

maybe you can come back in 2024

when I retire for real

[light crystal]

[stable dawn]

with how nasty this torp meta is, I can't see myself continuing to play pvp

it just feels unfun

[light crystal]

Sandbagger killer. good thing I suck at sandbagging anyway

I walk at 15 mins

[prime gull]

I remember when i thought washington south dakota was unfun... if i had known...

[stable dawn]

It's not even that. It's just that the best strat is to retry until your torps hit nicely

0 skill required

just slap on +10 torps and use rng

[brazen socket]

hmmm

im bagging

reset in 8 mins

should I play safe and do my 5 rn

[ocean quest]

5 in 4

[stable dawn]

5 in -1

overcap then do your 5

[brazen socket]

Holy fuck that was actually dangerous I almost got destroyed by a laffey yk2 comp

[stable dawn]

yukikaze II????

[late heath]

New meta

[brazen socket]

[late heath]

UR Yukikaze

[brazen socket]

anchorage juneau laffey stalls out and reaches my backline

had to reset bc torps werent hitting shit

[ocean quest]

usual

[prime gull]

I fought a lvl 113 laffey 2 and she outlived the entire fleet

[whole salmon]

Laffey 2 summons can hit backline

Apparently

But it usually dies immediately during opening torp wave

So its effectiveness is limited

So use it as glorified torp bait

[brazen socket]

lmao I lost my aotn, the game left to a hiryuu vs hiryuu and couldnt bother to reset

skill issue

anyways laffey is seriously so annoying to fight alongside fortune

[light crystal]

[serene epoch]

Why would brah be dead?

[neon bronze]

chinese

[light crystal]

@stable dawn

[stable dawn]

he got unbanned???

[buoyant parrot]

[undone blade]

Do affinity buffs count in PvP?

[lusty hill]

yes

pvp is p2w game mode

[neon bronze]

Yes, oath as well if you're able to shell out cash for it

Still outweighed by attacker advantage anyway. Only for vanity at that point

[undone blade]

Thanks. Yes, actually deciding to oath someone in my PvP fleet was why I asked. Otherwise, I was just going to oath EX and T0 URs I like

[neon bronze]

Am doing the same myself

Now, if only my mother gives some of the money she owes me (can't buy the oath ring pack with gems otherwise)

[ocean quest]

oath your mom

[pure tusk]

I am so confused, this fleet I was fighting had a single Z23 retro and a Uni retro against my fleet Laffey, Helena and Portland retro w/ backline of Warspite, Enty and Uni retro, got completely demolished. Then I fight another Z23 retro with a full formation of 5 other ships minus a Uni retro and I wipe them out, what happened??

Like I get Warspite ain't great but it's just how fast my vanguard died to a single Z23

[stable dawn]

level difference probably

a 125 is like, several dozen orders of magnitude stronger than a level 70

[pseudo copper]

Level and gear diff

[buoyant parrot]

Hey Donald Trump, your wall is antiquated. You need to update it to current META so you can wall better

[buoyant parrot]

And credit goes to creator

[stable dawn]

[buoyant parrot]

Famine Real Identity

The best of all for me this pvp year is the self collusion

[lusty hill]

it's me

[neon bronze]

wait, there's a hidden entry

can't see it, thx jpeg

[wheat anvil]

the fuck

Bruh

[hearty basalt]

i'm at the rank of captain already

[lusty hill]

shimakaze op

[torpid shuttle]

torp meta

[stable dawn]

[lusty hill]

kearsarge

[ocean quest]

rigged

[buoyant parrot]

@zenith tundra didn't you quit AL? you back now?

[tawny parcel]

How is laff2

[neon bronze]

yes, can be good

[finite fog]

might be different on lil e

[neon bronze]

yeah, they (and technically u) don't have fortM yet

[floral wave]

thats even better

[hardy kernel]

Time for the +3 advantage

[floral wave]

climbing

[ocean quest]

[boreal comet]

Helena gaming

[buoyant parrot]

[lusty hill]

Wtf +3

How is that possible

105 difference

Overcap tech

[hardy kernel]

Pvp rng shinanigans

Anyways I fell off

[wheat anvil]

He fell off does that mean

One piece is not real?!

[stable dawn]

NOOOOOOO

https://tenor.com/view/chopper-crying-one-piece-the-one-piece-is-real-crying-meme-gif-4518068471625710025

[undone blade]

Wondering why I'm seeing BB aux gun PvP recommendations of the DD twin 137 gun over the CL triple 152 in PVP gear recommendations when typical recommendations say to always use a CL gun for the main fleet aux when permitted. What's the PvP reason that this changes?

[pseudo copper]

Different types of interception

[undone blade]

Range vs suicide boats?

[pseudo copper]

PvE interception is vs suicide boats, you just need burst as for range they come to you

PvP range and speed matter

[undone blade]

So the USS DD gun still beats this gun for PvP

[pseudo copper]

Yes

[undone blade]

Does the twin 137 suck in OpSci and campaign? If it does okay, seems like I could probably build a couple of those and skip the Nep and other CL aux guns for now?

[pseudo copper]

In pve fp usually matters more than intercept

In maps where intercept matters you want burst

Which twin 137 is not as good as for example the triple 155

So less fp and less burst

PvP has range advantage and dps advantage

[brazen socket]

Hm between musashi and jintsuu meta

who would like plygun more

[pseudo copper]

I’d say Sushi

[undone blade]

I already have a bunch of these at +10 I can use if suicide boats are getting thorough. I crafted them already and planned to upgrade a couple to Nep guns

[pseudo copper]

Nep gun isn’t worth frankly

[undone blade]

I'll try that DD gun on Owarie then for my PvP. I can swap back this purple gun if it sucks in PvE.

Sound okay @pseudo copper ? Thanks!

[pseudo copper]

I mean you don’t have any problem with interception in anything below w14

So just stick with twin 137 since more fp

[undone blade]

I started the game the last week of the Unzen event. So most recommended PvP backline BBs are event locked. Looking forward to reruns. LOL

[pseudo copper]

Just work on FdG slowly and raise Hiryuu

[torpid shuttle]

try out budget fleets

what's the winrate of fdg kear hiryuu ancho harbin juneau vs comps

[pseudo copper]

3rd option ig depends on who comes next or just use one of budgets

[undone blade]

I could always use this too. Wondering why the twin 137 is recommended over this one?

[torpid shuttle]

137 dmg is quite good yknow

[pseudo copper]

It is Lil E, unless you roll like 3 fleet is 100%

[pseudo copper]

155 is lower range + he

[undone blade]

I'll definitely upgrade to Kear & FDG when I have the fleet points to build them

[brazen socket]

Have cn testers thought to use aurora with aquila before against torpmeme

[pseudo copper]

Issue with Kear isn’t unlocking

It is prints

[steel coral]

back in 2021 with og torpmeme

[brazen socket]

Oh, I guess not as effective now?

[pseudo copper]

Was 2020 no?

[undone blade]

Little ent, my Frontline of ancho, Shimikaze, Unzen wins by itself most of the time. LOL

[pseudo copper]

Lil Enty is easy mode

No one plays pvp and most def fleets are just KMS simps with Enty

[undone blade]

I'm just trying to get over this note in the gear recommendations for PvE that I use. "- Always use CL Aux Guns when possible for Main Fleet!"
I'm just new

[pseudo copper]

Pve is just use highest fp unless doing w14+ p much

[boreal comet]

Pve is braindead easy

[torpid shuttle]

because good cl guns have more burst than usual dd guns for fireboats and w14 rammers

137 actually works fine in all pve as well

except just use 155kai for same burst and more fp

[undone blade]

Thx everyone. I'm just going to be starting chap 13 after this event. I'll see how far I can get with the 137. If it fails in chap 14, I can fall back to the purple triple 152s or craft the 155 Kai.

[torpid shuttle]

W14 has more failure points than just a backline aux gun

[steel coral]

about 10 jintm fleets and most are top half of lb making it more likely they'll be your leftmost

and no fortm means a half baked torpmeme fleet still slaps

[undone blade]

I was scrambling to try to get jintm! I couldn't get her farmed enough to MLB her, so I don't know if I'll be able to beat those fleets unless the meta changes. I'm not facing any of them yet though.

I did get her to 5 stars, but I figure MLB Anchorage is better?

[late heath]

She miss 15% torpedo efficiency without MLB so maybe? I’d try to test vs a few meta fleet if it was me

Probably fine if you’re on attack since that attacker bonus

But take my opinion with a grain of salt

[steel coral]

it's defender bias now

defense vanguard closer means more reliable torps

[brazen socket]

offense vanguard sucks

like its too rng for them to not go anywhere but the bottom side sometimes

[whole salmon]

The range of most CL guns are too short to actually hit anything being at 65, that’s why DD guns with 70 range are preferred. You can get away with some CL guns with 68 range in middle position or if it is the Rainbow CL which gives higher stats

CL guns always come in bursts, not stable dps like DD guns. Against fast moving targets, their effective dps is quite lower in pvp

A lot of stuff that works in pve doesn’t apply in pvp

You would see people run tank or evasion gear on backlines, running guns that are fast but low on burst damage, running a lot of speed items etc

[wheat anvil]

Can I ball this.

Shima is a menace

[serene epoch]

This backline gonna make your balls dry fr

[wheat anvil]

[hardy kernel]

Wait no tank?

[floral wave]

what even is a tank these days

[boreal comet]

None dare to tank the might of torps

[neon bronze]

Nihahahaha

[half silo]

Torp stronk

[whole salmon]

Laffey 2 dares

She can tank 30 torps to the face

[brazen socket]

all we need to do is wait

[whole salmon]

In current Meta, Laffey 2 can probably tank better than Anchorage

[brazen socket]

could she replace in double torp

[whole salmon]

Outside of the shield window, Anchorage can be bursted dow

Laffey can’t be bursted down

Only thing that can take down Laffey 2 is a ship with fast fire rate, aka a ship that does multiple hits in quick succession

Of which only ships with lasers like Bismarck 2 and other Gridman or collab ships can do

However even those have below average to terrible consistency to do anything against Laffey 2

[brazen socket]

Mmm, I feel like laffey can run black torp oxy torp

or just black torp manjuu

her torp seems decent enough to let her tea torps

[whole salmon]

Laffey 2 can also take any position

[brazen socket]

plus she scales well with torps due to her bunny strikers if that even matters

[whole salmon]

You can run her main tank and have Shima be middle

You can run her as middle to replace Shima and use Jintsuu Fortune like typical anti torp comps

[brazen socket]

eugh I remember facing that

[whole salmon]

Or you can run her off tank

[brazen socket]

I got stalled the fuck out and deleted

[whole salmon]

Laffey’s survivability and offense are both well rounded enough for you to run her in any position and not really suffer anything

The only thing that might be trouble is that if you use her instead of Shima, you won’t have access to Shima’s speed buff. So you might have to readjust your speed gear on the other 2 ships

But that’s about it. Overall a really decent ship

The UR Yukikaze of pvp

[boreal comet]

I finally got shima and now you're telling me to replace her

[neon bronze]

CN overlords say yes

[boreal comet]

Not my lords

[floral wave]

replace jintsuu instead

[upbeat mantle]

Guys is this good for pvp?

[upbeat mantle]

So laffy 2 is op in pvp?

[whole salmon]

That’s an oversimplification

Laffey 2 performs well under direct circumstances of countering specific torp based high tier fleets

In general play against not top comps, she may not perform as well as other alternatives

[whole salmon]

Not necessarily

Laffey 2 can play any position, removing Shima is not a necessity

[upbeat mantle]

Do u have any advice for me ?
U could say i kinda don't know a thing about pvp

@whole salmon

[valid oxide]

Laf2 good for Poor's like me who don't have shima?

[whole salmon]

Depending on the comp you are using

Laffey 2 doesn’t replace Shima in torp oriented comp like the most recent meta of Jintsuu M Fortune M duo

[valid oxide]

But I don't have shima anyway

[whole salmon]

In short, it is complicated

[valid oxide]

I've been coping with jintm harb fortM

All because nosh did nothing

[whole salmon]

It isn’t as simple as “oh let’s just place in Laffey 2” and hope it performs

There’s specific cases for her just like Fortune and Kearsarge

And now even Hiryuu is in that category

[valid oxide]

So it's more complex than rock paper scissors

[whole salmon]

Juneau and Anchorage is also in that category now

They aren’t necessary picks as they used to be

[valid oxide]

Ancho lafii Juneau hyperstall when

[whole salmon]

Doesn’t stop the torp from killing backline

Therefore, never

[valid oxide]

Who needs backline when you stall the enemy and cause them to overcap

[whole salmon]

They won’t overcap

[upbeat mantle]

My one cell brain can't understand what u guys are saying

[whole salmon]

Once the backline is dead, frontline falls in 30 seconds max

[valid oxide]

Just run cringe triple invuln backline

[whole salmon]

You can use a stall frontline but that’s not the stall frontline that’s most meta anymore

The current top stall is Juneau Laffey Fortune

With Juneau specifically being the pre Retrofit version

While holding damage control

[whole salmon]

This has to do with damage control proc time difference

[valid oxide]

I'm not gonna raise a second Juneau

[whole salmon]

Retro Juneau proc heal then damage control

Pre Retro Juneau proc damage control then heal

[upbeat mantle]

Is there any kind of tier list for pvp ships?

[whole salmon]

The difference in when heal procs enables you to run different styles of comp

[whole salmon]

Current one works but isn’t the most updated

[valid oxide]

I really don't want to raise a second Juneau

[whole salmon]

Don’t copy and paste it and expect yourself to win reliably in the state of current meta

Even max gear people don’t have reliable win rate during the rng fest of torp meta

[valid oxide]

Yeah reliable comps ended with the birth of JintM comps

One plus side is fast PvP though

[upbeat mantle]

U have link ??

[whole salmon]

Here

But in short, it’s complicated

[valid oxide]

I am rather sad that I have to raise a second Juneau though

[whole salmon]

Laffey 2 added a lot of variables as with Jintsuu M

Jintsuu M spawned so many frontline combinations and Laffey 2 did the same

[upbeat mantle]

Guys are enterprise and unicorn good for pvp?

[whole salmon]

Before then it was just brainless Ancho Shima Juneau/Harbin spam

[valid oxide]

The good times

[whole salmon]

Now there’s some variety in frontline with Jintsuu M enabling the meta effectiveness of Fortune M

And Laffey 2 bringing back Juneau usage

[valid oxide]

Yeah but we need to raise a non-retro Juneau for lafii

[whole salmon]

There’s some even testing using Kirov M in order to have her summon block torps or bait torps

[valid oxide]

Summon gaming

[whole salmon]

The pre retro Juneau idea is still a proof of concept

It isn’t set in stone yet but it is viable in CN testings

Current frontline combinations seems complicated

[valid oxide]

Also do these laffii comps still use pearl

[whole salmon]

But most common are Jintsuu Laffey Fortune

Or Laffey Shima Fortune

Or Laffey Shima Juneau

Or Juneau Laffey Fortune as mentioned prior

[valid oxide]

Silly hyperstall seems fun for hehe haha walling

[whole salmon]

Backline combinations still seems to be the standard Musashi NJ Hiryuu or NJ Kear Hiryuu or Musashi NJ Kear

But some are experimenting with old backline setups like Musashi NJ Vanguard again

[valid oxide]

Do they use WNT?

[whole salmon]

Or even the Musashi NJ Shinano comp of old meta but with Laffey instead of Anchorage

[upbeat mantle]

If I were to do a full torpedoes pvp fleet that has Shima and laffy2 should I use hatsuzuki or laffy as the third ship?

[whole salmon]

All of which have quite reliable win rates

Around 85-95%

Against current torp comps

So it is in a very complicated phase

[valid oxide]

MSN revival arc?

[whole salmon]

Some are trying to counter Laffey 2 with the Bismarck Seydlitz comp

So don’t expect stuff to be set in stone, it might take a few more weeks

[whole salmon]

Bismarck’s laser is one thing that can shred Laffey’s survivability

Since the laser has plenty of hits, which is Laffey’s weakness

Laffey can tank burst damage but not consistent dps

[valid oxide]

Gridman fleet revival

Laser beams

[upbeat mantle]

Am kinda of limited on DD I think so do u have any recommendations?

[valid oxide]

Get harbong

[whole salmon]

Prioritize backline first

[upbeat mantle]

What do u recommend?

[whole salmon]

Musashi NJ Kear Hiryuu. Some combination of them would give desirable results

[upbeat mantle]

Well I don't have any of them

[whole salmon]

Then you are done for

[valid oxide]

Kear fdg hiryuu then

[hollow walrus]

They are Lil E Pink

so ig Fdg, Kear, Hiryuu is the best they can get rn

[valid oxide]

Kear and fdg are PR season and thus permanent content and hiryuu is a ship that drops from 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, and one of the w11 stages iirc

Or was it w13

Can't rember

[whole salmon]

Little E has a special Meta where you can essentially run anything and still not top 10 eos due to smurfs from other servers doesn’t have older ships like Musashi or Fortune Meta

[upbeat mantle]

So I should grind w11 stages?

[valid oxide]

Just look at wiki for where hiryuu drops

And grind that level until you have hiryuu

[upbeat mantle]

By 3-1 u mean world 3 stages?

[whole salmon]

Tho the Laffey Shima Juneau comp is available

[upbeat mantle]

Ok

[spiral owl]

The meta comp on lil E rn is hiryuu kearsarge nj - jinm/shima/harbin

The fact that there's no fortunem just allows torpmemes to run wild with no real answers

[upbeat mantle]

Juneau?

[spiral owl]

No idea how laffey 2 changes things

[upbeat mantle]

U mean that rare ship?

[whole salmon]

Yes

[upbeat mantle]

[whole salmon]

One of the better frontline ships in pvp for like 6 years now

Has presence in basically all metas in some form

[upbeat mantle]

Dammit I just scrapped her few minutes ago

[whole salmon]

Won’t change much since there’s no Fortune

The reason why other servers are switching to Laffey is because of Fortune hard countering Shima and not so much Laffey

So without Fortune, torp comp wouldn’t be affected as much by Laffey

[spiral owl]

Yeah thought so too, no reason to swap if your backline just get popped by the torps anyway

[whole salmon]

So just run Shima away as usual

Yeah Laffey situation is really complicated

Laffey is indeed strong but in specific cases

Doesn’t seem to apply on a Fortune-less environment

[valid oxide]

I hope to eventually run Juneau lafii fortM hyperstall at some point

[spiral owl]

Tbh there's no real contest on lil e at this point the real meta comp is ran by a handful of players so there's not much test to be done

Very few players are running the jinmeta comp and even less have access to dev 30 kearsarge

[whole salmon]

There’s still the other UR in Feb

[valid oxide]

UR Juneau

[whole salmon]

If it is a backliner, it might change things again

[valid oxide]

[whole salmon]

Frontline got shaken a lot but backline remained stable throughout 2023

[spiral owl]

I just hope we don't get a bismarck 2 case all over

[whole salmon]

Kear did have an impact but not as big as I had hoped she would be

[valid oxide]

Juneau 2 could happen

[whole salmon]

You could say Shinano dropping from the meta is an impact

[spiral owl]

A UR backline that could neutralize torpmemes would be interesting, but then we would go back to stall

[whole salmon]

But at that point, many are already running triple BB so Shinano’s presence has already diminished

Ig Aquila disappearing from the meta is something

But Aquila was already on the down trend since Musashi’s release

[spiral owl]

Would be nice if they overhauled pvp and the rewards, there's very little incentive to push for eos

[valid oxide]

Do they even remember PvP exists

[whole salmon]

Yes

I remember one of Musashi’s skill doesn’t work in pvp

Otherwise Musashi would be more broken than she already is

So it seems like they do care at the bare minimum not to do something too drastic

[brazen socket]

if musashi kept her damage reduction in pvp she would be making pvp so toxic

[scenic tendon]

[whole salmon]

But it does work in pvp

The only part that doesn’t work is Musashi’s ability to make other members immune to crash damage

Otherwise Musashi would have rendered CVs useless in pvp

[brazen socket]

... Oh I thought the part that was disabled was the damage reduc

actually I thought the whole skill was disabled entirely

no wonder musashi dies last most of the time

[valid oxide]

Yeah sushi has the highest BB HP and has silly damage reduction

[torpid shuttle]

hm? but killing musashi is still a bonus for CVs

Musashi doesnt prevent reveals in PvE

[brazen socket]

imagine a bbv with musashi kit

thats when we all start fearing for our lives

[torpid shuttle]

so musashi with planes

[brazen socket]

the strength of shinano and the strength of musashi

[brazen socket]

yas

[torpid shuttle]

that's just playerdev ships

[floral wave]

but makes them not take crash/ram damage

[torpid shuttle]

yea but who does musashi even want to sacrifice herself for
she isnt getting sustained

in pvp

[floral wave]

with her dmg reduction and hp pool shes getting enough damage in even with redirected damage

if it worked

[torpid shuttle]

well we cant toggle it to test winrates vs cv comps so

if it get NJ or shinano extra salvoes back then maybe

[floral wave]

musashi sodak shinano

make shinano live until 3rd strike

[upbeat mantle]

We are getting a UR in February?

[floral wave]

if they keep current schedule, yes

[upbeat mantle]

Better grind cubes

[floral wave]

what was this years first ur anyway

already forgot

[torpid shuttle]

umm

was this year really implacable zwei

that was this year right

and yk2 was december last year

[floral wave]

oh, impla

[torpid shuttle]

the two most busted bossing ships

[boreal comet]

Implacable is less busted than Shinano and Yorktown but more necessary

[prime gull]

The ark royal of UR ships

More like formidable really....

[undone blade]

Thanks for all of that! 🍻

Being new, I don't have any of the recommended backline ships, but working towards FdG and Kear. But because my backline is weak I think I need a DPS front and not a stall. I'm running Ancho, Shima, Unzen. It seems to be doing well with my backline being my big weakness right now. Do you think Laffii would be an upgrade to Ancho in this config? Or would making Unzen try to tank with a 3rd Torp ship added be better?

[floral wave]

unzen wont tank anything

she'll do worse as a than in pve where shes already mediocre at best

[torpid shuttle]

manjuu kear surprisingly procs really usefully

I very often get extra cooldowns during manjuu proc

[floral wave]

laffey2

harbin cant fill the role jintsuu does

wait, whats the frontline

x, shima, ?

x being the jintsuu you dont have

and do you have fortune meta?

ye, if no fortune thats probably best bet

could also replace harbin with laffey2

yeah its still good

but will probablu have issues with current meta frontlines

as in end of season top10 or just aotn rank ?

for aotn its gonna be fine

not a cope at all

ye thats gonna be more than enough

if your harbins gonna get countered too much you can just go ancho, shima, laffey tok

too*

[floral wave]

generally yes

thing is your first volley wont be magnetic

so even if torps pass enemy vanguard they still have low chance of hitting backline

or well, lower

drop rate is shit

prepare for that

hm?

what purple

[autumn quest]

[floral wave]

theres no purple version of that

like every gear tbh, but its gonna work at +10 too

what the

well it doesnt have a skill

so oxytorp better

need? no, eventually want to? sure

you dont really need any piece of gear at +13

but if others do have them at +13 you increase chances of winning if you +13 aswell

same rule applies

it doesnt need to be +13

but if youre thinking about pushing for end of season ranking youll eventually want them at +13

then you dont need 13s

[undone blade]

My main question was regarding keeping Unzen as off-tank but replacing Ancho with Laffii. Would this be an upgrade? More DPS since my backline is weak? If I did this, I imagine Unzen's speed would be a real drag... would you replace her and if so, with whom?

[floral wave]

honestly even with bad backline id probably still go for ancho shima laffey

unless you know youre gonna fight even weaker opponents

but then again, keeping frontline alive longer will make shima and laffey do more

unzen is gonna be good only if her first two volleys kill or cripple something, then shes a drag

[undone blade]

Hmm, so replace Unzen with Laffii.. seems like a downgrade as the line won't be much faster and Unzen is typically my MVP

[floral wave]

its gonna be a lot faster

laffeys 40 speed against unzens, what was is, 24?

and laffey will outlive unzen like 5 times

i mean, youre very much fine trying unzen out

and if it doesnt work then replace her

[undone blade]

Ancho's base speed is 26. Unzen's is 24. So the line would go 2 speed faster

.
I'll have to test. But Typically Unzen lives to the end

[floral wave]

no, thats not how it works with speed

[undone blade]

As long as she's out living Ancho and Shima, I want the most damage from off-tank I assume

[floral wave]

its not whatever the slowest one is

[undone blade]

So if Laffii is off tank, will she actually pass Ancho and become tank?

[prime gull]

Average speed?

[floral wave]

ah you mean how they move

[undone blade]

Yes

Isn't that why speed's important?

[floral wave]

the AI movement is whack so even unzen being slowest will be the first one sometimes

nah

speed is important to not get hit by enemy backline salvoes

and to intercept enemy torps

while having your own pass enemy frontline

[undone blade]

So speed and evasion are hidden algorithms determining hits and what shows graphically is unrelated?

[floral wave]

it is somewhat related

but thats not the main point of it

you cant influence the way they move anyway

[undone blade]

I'll have to test anyway. It'll be a while before I have her to 125 and even longer before I can afford a rainbow DD gun

[floral wave]

dont really need a rainbow

but its best to test yourself

can infinitely reset so it wont result in losses

[undone blade]

You think she'll beat Unzen with the German gun?

[floral wave]

main point of laffey is her survivability

and if she survives longer, shes got more opportunities to deal damage with torps

[valid oxide]

Laffii enables funny haha hyperstall

[undone blade]

Since my backline sucks, I wasn't trying to survive as much as quick kill the other guy. But I understand

[floral wave]

gotta balance it out somehow

if you meet a fortune meta, unzen becomes useless

[undone blade]

So if you're recommending a stall fleet with Ancho and Laffii, Why do you recommend I put Shima in the middle? Isn't she too soft?

[floral wave]

shima is pretty tanky

[undone blade]

Okay.

[valid oxide]

Shima is one of the less soft DDs

[undone blade]

I don't disagree. . she's pretty new for me still

[floral wave]

also adds speed to frontline

[undone blade]

And she's only 120 since are don't have arrays

[floral wave]

and well, you want at least some damage if your backline is weak

[undone blade]

And she's better than Yuudachi, etc..

?

[floral wave]

but seriously, test unzen, see how she fares

yeah shes better than yuudachi

torps are much more valuable in pvp

[prime gull]

Isn't there an item that changes the auto movement? I think its from the kizuna AI event? Not that it would make much diference...

And have the enemy backline focus on her instead

[undone blade]

If I'm determined to keep Shima, Unzen. Who's the better tank Ancho vs Laffii?

[floral wave]

that im not sure about, solo self tank is laffey no doubt

but ancho also has a smoke for whole frontline

[prime gull]

My internet is awful i was going to say that minutes ago

[floral wave]

no clue about collab gear that would change movement

but if it was any good im sure it would be used by anyone that has it

[undone blade]

If Laffii is the longer lived solo, wouldn't that also be true as the tank in a threesome?

[floral wave]

kind of, but additional evasion rate for other vanguards might make a difference

especially that with unzen theyll be slow so they theorethically should spend more time inside the smoke

[undone blade]

Then they would make a difference to both

[floral wave]

oh

you mean

[undone blade]

Ahh, the smoke

[floral wave]

ancho shima laffey

?

[prime gull]

I think its this one

[floral wave]

it doesnt seem to do anything

[prime gull]

The text doesnt tell you

Kizuna AI gear is like that

[undone blade]

Option 1:
Ancho Shima Unzen
2: Ancho Shima Laffii
3: Laffii Shima Unzen

[floral wave]

oh

[prime gull]

So its useless now huh

[floral wave]

well

its hp and 8 speed

[prime gull]

A boiler

[floral wave]

but thats

yeah

[undone blade]

Vote please ↑

[finite fog]

Unzen is too slow

[floral wave]

id go 2 myself but idk how thats gonna correlate with your backline

[finite fog]

Eats up musashi barrage

[whole salmon]

Intelligence Chip is better maảginally

[floral wave]

2nd surely seems the most optimal

[finite fog]

Wait you're Lil e nvm

[whole salmon]

Not by much but it is better

[undone blade]

I am using the boiler until I get kicks FWIW

[whole salmon]

The main advantage of Intelligence Chip compared to Boiler is that it can be +13 while the other is only +11

[prime gull]

Thats true

[whole salmon]

At max enhancement, Intelligence Chip gives marginally better HP

So it is better, but not worth the materials

[undone blade]

Backline kind of sucks at the moment l. is currently Sara, Owari, Enty. I'll take advice on that next. LOL

[whole salmon]

Kicks is not a replacement of Boiler in all situations

[floral wave]

well, the first step to good backline is hiryuu

hands down

[prime gull]

15 second invincible is useful in any meta

[undone blade]

Was shooting for beaver and kicks on Ancho and boiler black Torp on Unzen

[whole salmon]

Especially for speed gear, it is not a copy and paste

[floral wave]

some ships need hp more than evasion

[undone blade]

Leveling her. But Enty is her sub in this chart...

[whole salmon]

You have to adjust your speed items depending on the comp you are running to meet the 40 speed average threshold

[floral wave]

unzen needs both

[whole salmon]

Some comps needs a lot more speed than others

Especially the double CA comp you mentioned

Unzen isn’t used in pvp due to 2 reasons

[floral wave]

wait, so you only need more or less 40 avg?

[whole salmon]

1. Fortune hard counters

[undone blade]

Nipe

[whole salmon]

2. So many items is needed for speed adjusting

[finite fog]

No fortune in Lil e

[undone blade]

Nobody has her

[floral wave]

3. shes a heavy cruiser

[whole salmon]

Slightly higher but not too high

[steel coral]

1. speed issues with ancho
2. harbin exists

[whole salmon]

Around 40-50 average is enough

But chances are you don’t need more speed once you reach 40

[floral wave]

50 is quite high

[whole salmon]

You can pad rest with HP or offense

[floral wave]

jintsu shima fortune is 135 iirc?

[undone blade]

The lineup I posted here seems to be the best I could do with the ships I have available

[floral wave]

without speed gear

[whole salmon]

I remember this is quite fast

So doesn’t need speed items at all

But usually comps with Ancho or comps without Shima requires some speed gear

[floral wave]

ye thats for sure

[whole salmon]

And comps with Unzen is crippled due to the fact that you need so much speed to actually survive

And spending more items dedicated to speed means less those dedicated to offense

In short, run Harbin

[floral wave]

i counted current meta speed to compare to my idea of laffey fort felix

and theyre only 12 short

without speed gear

[undone blade]

FYI without a second speed aux this is Unzen's stats

[steel coral]

jintm/shima/unzen is fundamentally the same as ancho/shima/harbin speed-wise

[floral wave]

32 is super slow

especially that she doesnt survive if she gets hit

no hp, no evasion

[whole salmon]

32 speed is base Juneau without any speed gear

That’s how slow Unzen is

And unlike Juneau which can run 2 speed items

[floral wave]

also shes a ca so she doesnt get any class buffs in pvp

[undone blade]

Well, #2 seems to be the consensus. Glad I didn't just waste my ring on Ancho

[whole salmon]

Unzen loses DPS the more items you dedicate to speed

[steel coral]

anchorage with kicks + manjuu is 31 speed

[floral wave]

[whole salmon]

Shima gives team speed buff and so does beaver

[floral wave]

ancho ring isnt necessarily a waste

[whole salmon]

That’s why those 2 are preferred in a lot of cases

[floral wave]

but yeah better to use it on someone else these days

[whole salmon]

And instead of Anchorage

Laffey without speed gear is already on the average 40 speed

Letting you do basically whatever with her

[undone blade]

I finally pulled Hornet so I'll be able to get a Manju

[floral wave]

now, how important is to have laffey use uss gear