"blblbllblblblbllbblb"
#history
frigid karma
spring briar
Dolphin waifus
frigid karma
not prime english materials
strong plank
why NASA?
spring briar
đŠ
frigid karma
space dolphins
strong plank
like how's that within their area?
tough quail
because they need to seduce PLAN officers on the moon ocean
strong plank
douglas adams type shit
frigid karma
this is the 60s
china is uh
not a strong geopolitical power
i doubt they had anything bigger than an an shan
tough quail
oh my brain jumped to the 2014 date
spiral cedar
In 1939, French Lick Springs, Indiana, passed a law requiring all black cats to bells on Friday 13th. A piece of forward-thinking wildlife conservation to help the local birds, you ask? Oh, no â this law intended to protect people! According to a 1942 New York Times article, it was âa war measure to alleviate mental strain upon the populaceâ. Presumably, hearing a catâs bell, residents could avoid one crossing their path and bringing bad luck. The article also mentions that when the law wasnât enforced in 1941, âa number of minor mishaps occurredâ.
tough quail
VMF officers on the moon ocean then
manic latch
VMF officers on the moon ocean then
spring briar
Do not look up âspace dolphin 1956â
spiral cedar
Also, clearly the lack of enforcement of the law in 1941 is what led to Pearl Harbor
manic latch
VMF officers on the moon ocean then
The Soviet Navy operated a research facility to explore military uses of marine mammals at Kazachya Bukhta (44.5800°N 33.4023°E), near Sevastopol. The Russian military's dolphin program is believed to have languished in the early 1990s
somber knoll
speaking of le funni but unironical history, @desert agate gib the emu war story please
frigid karma
Also, clearly the lack of enforcement of the law in 1941 is what led to Pearl Ha...
i don't know how tying a bell to this thing would help
It's pretty loud already
desert agate
speaking of le funni but unironical history, <@286885038208057344> gib the emu w...
3 men 2 machine guns and 20'000 rounds of ammunition is not warfare
spiral cedar
i don't know how tying a bell to this thing would help
Wouldâve alerted the PH radar operators
spiral cedar
3 men 2 machine guns and 20'000 rounds of ammunition is not warfare
3 men 2 machine guns 1 cup
frigid karma
a black cat
frigid karma
SECOND EMOTE DETECTED
strong plank
get his ass
spiral cedar
(This emote is provided for illustration purposes only. It is not distributed for entertainment value)
spring briar
(This emote is provided for illustration purposes only. It is not distributed fo...
But i found it funni
maiden citrus
somber knoll
3 men 2 machine guns 1 cup
you forgot the technical they used to shoot
spiral cedar
3 men 2 machine guns 1 truck
desert agate
ive been to the sites where the "emu war" was fought
just a couple of small towns out in rural WA
spiral cedar
I mean, thatâs all thatâs left now
desert agate
not that interesting but the wheatbelt has some cool sights to see
manic latch
spiral cedar
<4 emotes>
spring briar
Banned
manic latch
Oi
spiral cedar
Beaned
desert agate
<:PBY_BlackCatalina:692848011520507966>
spring briar
You should post 15 then, krem
desert agate
i will say
manic latch
You should post 15 then, krem
desert agate
the RAAF is ridiculously uncredited for its participation in the crippling of the Japanese merchant navy
tough quail
additional soyuz
spiral cedar
In 1800, France passed a law against women âdress[ing] like a manâ. This peculiar law was intended to prevent women taking menâs jobs. If women could wear trousers rather than massive, flowing frocks, they could take better paid and more interesting jobs! France modified the law in 1892 and 1900 to reflect changing times. These amendments allowed women to wear trousers when âholding a bicycle handlebar or the reins of a horseâ. These changes preserved womenâs modesty. Otherwise, women had to get express permission to âdress like a manâ.
desert agate
the USN submarines constantly get credit for their role in obliterating Japans merchant forces
spiral cedar
> In 1800, France passed a law against women âdress[ing] like a manâ. This pecul...
Horse, how would you like to be held by a French woman
desert agate
but they would not have achieved the level of success that they did, were it not for the RAAFs aerial mining operations
spiral cedar
So that she can wear trousers
desert agate
those mining operations allowed Japanese ports in occupied Indonesia to be clogged up with ships waiting to enter while the ports were swept of mines
tough quail
what the fuck did i just type
spring briar
Haha historical
desert agate
while submarines, deployed from Fremantle and Pearl could sit outside these ports and pick off these ships with ease
manic latch
desert agate
the mining operations were however not acknowledged in post-war histories because they didnt actually sink that many ships
manic latch
*points at the moon*
SPACE RACE TIME
manic latch
spiral cedar
Itâs a real (historical) place
spring briar
Time to build more R7âs
spiral cedar
So youâre in the clear
frigid karma
> In 1800, France passed a law against women âdress[ing] like a manâ. This pecul...
were there any laws against men dressing like women
spiral cedar
idk
manic latch
Time to build more R7âs
manic latch
Shut
manic latch
spring briar
Shmoll
spiral cedar
âDonât talk to me or my son ever againâ
spiral cedar
(âsonâ here is used affectionately and not in terms of design lineage)
desert agate
no one cares reeeeeee
spring briar
for a better historical context, d'Eon but you get the idea
Exactly
manic latch
<a:LC_Rage:962974187897618473> no one cares reeeeeee
Is it because no Australian space program?
manic latch
desert agate
about the RAAF aerial mining operations
spiral cedar
In 1963, the Swiss government passed the first measures to make sure every inhabitant had access to a nuclear shelter. These laws are still enshrined in Articles 45 and 46 of the Swiss Federal Law on Civil Protection. Most buildings erected since 1963 have their own bunkers.
desert agate
reminder that apollo, gemini, etc wouldnt have been possible were it not for the tracking and communications stations established in Australia
spiral cedar
It is illegal for your home to not have access to a nuclear bunker
manic latch
> In 1963, the Swiss government passed the first measures to make sure every inh...
Good ol Cold War
somber knoll
as much as I like about my home nation battlefront, the stories I heard often is gonna be either Sumatra bombing party or the IJN trying to get bio fuel in Borneo for the Takaos and Mogamis
spiral cedar
In 1336, Edward III of England got so sick of his chubby soldiers he passed laws to make them diet. In the lawâs words, obesity made people ânot able to aid themselves nor their liege Lord in time of needâ. The law banned people eating more than 2 courses at mealtimes. It also defined soup as a separate course to prevent people calling it a sauce or condiment. Edward also saw overeating as a wider social evil which made people poorer and more sinful. 3 courses could be enjoyed on Feast Days, however.
Careful going to the soup store. Counts as contraband
somber knoll
das UK though
desert agate
WHY ARE YOU BUYING CLOTHES AT THE SOUP STORE
somber knoll
> In 1336, Edward III of England got so sick of his chubby soldiers he passed la...
So Edward wanted chads.
spiral cedar
Would need to be one hell of an uppercut
spring briar
Gets caught in jupiterâs gravity well
desert agate
Would need to be one hell of an uppercut
how much delta V do your punches have?
spring briar
spiral cedar
how much delta V do your punches have?
Not enough
desert agate
spring briar
Jabaâs relativistic punch
spiral cedar
Basically if you could punch another astronaut into space you could likewise punch into the ground to send yourself into space
strong plank
wasn't that the entire plot of For All Mankind
spiral cedar
Shhhh, donât discuss any other forms of historical media here
spiral cedar
Piss on the moon to cool your machine gun
spring briar
Seadragon was the best thing about for all mankind
strong plank
"moon's haunted"
chilly osprey
Two headaches later and a lot of frustration at conflicting information around Arsenal de Lorient, I have finally mostly mapped out the capacity of various French yards in terms of interwar naval construction.
NGL it is definitely weird that there are quite a few yards that only ever built a single destroyer in the interwar era and nothing else, but that seems to be mostly explained by the fact that French government made the navy build certain ships in private yards as part of an effort to secure jobs in those yards that would otherwise be lost.
spiral cedar
Seadragon was the best thing about for all mankind
Careful, Seadragon is just a PR rocket
strong plank
how would height over bore work in space
frigid karma
>floats away
Ok so aussies are natural candidates for space fighting
tough quail
tfw no space kalashnikov
frigid karma
They are used to almost floating off
manic latch
Space Battleship Soyuz
frigid karma
tfw no space kalashnikov
We have space m16 from for all mankind, Iâd post it here but I donât wanna get perma evicted
spring briar
Also the arâs being white will make them radiate heat away slower than if they had been black
Very sensible
strong plank
thats
spring briar
Very smart
frigid karma
Scrolling up is hard
desert agate
oh man this jokes gonna hang around for a while isnt it
frigid karma
Quite ableist of you to say that regal
spring briar
Two headaches later and a lot of frustration at conflicting information around A...
Yes, itâs quite the puzzle
Ablative
strong plank
tfw no space kalashnikov
spiral cedar
inb4 space Stg-44
tough quail
yooooooo we did it
ivory ridge
manic latch
Me finding Armstrong
strong plank
also some of the space M16s have M203s....
ivory ridge
strong plank
I would love to find out how that would work
spring briar
I would love to find out how that would work
Yeah the scopes
ivory ridge
vertical launching statue
spring briar
Me with my PU scoped mosin from 1931 on the moon
chilly osprey
Perfectly timed XD
manic latch
chilly osprey
ALERT 4 BOILERS ACROSS SPOTTED INITIATE TORPEDO ATTACK
somber knoll
Two headaches later and a lot of frustration at conflicting information around A...
so if Brest's no 4 slip could only construct a 200 meter BB, when did it get extended in order to build Richy (or JB?)?
chilly osprey
Richy was built minus her bow and stern
chilly osprey
Dunkerque only needed to have part of her bow built seperately
And Clemenceau was going to require the same cut as Richelieu
manic latch
The biggest slipway was busy making ocean liners
Didn't you killed Joffre's sister for Alsace? Or I remember wrong
somber knoll
reads back to some French shipbuilding tl;dr
oki. so only Saint Nazaire was able to do a full scale building.
desert agate
italy can take the eastern coast US
frigid karma
inb4 space Stg-44
Nazis went to the moon in 1943 first, so no stg, but they have the g43
desert agate
Australia gets the west
chilly osprey
frigid karma
Australia gets the west
You really want cal?
spring briar
Literally so proud if this
manic latch
Give Soviet Union Kansas
frigid karma
Jaba can attest
frigid karma
Give Soviet Union Kansas <a:Rossiya_Pet:778204874550542348>
Give Ohio
Kruschev will bust a nut
shrewd pecan
đď¸ 
somber knoll
its basically home
Equalizing Aus to Cali is... a bit stretching it I'm afraid
chilly osprey
'artificially short battleship launcher go BRRR'
frigid karma
Equalizing Aus to Cali is... a bit stretching it I'm afraid
They are polar opposites in all regards besides forest fires
manic latch
'artificially short battleship launcher go BRRR'
God Richel is so lucky she was launched in 1939
spiral cedar
Jaba can attest
My mouth works just fine
desert agate
i can attest to that
chilly osprey
somber knoll
They are polar opposites in all regards besides forest fires
don't want to resort to talk politics but at least Morrison knows when to fold them
desert agate
~~don't want to resort to talk politics but at least Morrison knows when to fold...
runs away to Hawaii
spiral cedar
Only if your house was built before 2002 and I can write it off as a historical structure
humble mulch
20 year rule?
spiral cedar
You got a better cutoff?
frigid karma
My house is built in the 60s
manic latch
somber knoll
btw, can I post a car history video? I've been binging some, in particular Cammisa's Revelations series.
spiral cedar
Probably, if the car is old enough
somber knoll
desert agate
no damien your 1999 toyota camry with a smashed window and miscoloured doors is not a "historical relic"
dusty kraken
Do I become a historical relic when I am >20 years old
somber knoll
no
desert agate
better hand myself into a museum then
somber knoll
https://youtu.be/nEahqyc_Jgc
that counts Jaba?
dusty kraken
This is outrageous, it's unfair, how can you be more than 20 years old and not be a historical relic
spiral cedar
that counts Jaba?
I donât know
The only ones who know are the ones with long wavelength colors in their names
somber knoll
ivory ridge
I want to post shells
spring briar
Undy donât bulli
ivory ridge
Undy donât bulli
spring briar
spring briar
manic latch
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1545509690498498566
What did he mean by last gun cruiser?
Ships like Kutuzov, Salem, Belfast is still around
Or maybe he mean still in service
ivory ridge
Or maybe he mean still in service
it was in active service
and not like averof, actual service
spring briar
Krem you are literally playing a character in pentagon wars rn
manic latch
cinder escarp
It was originally a pretty pure troop carrier
Alas, legendary scope creep happened
spring briar
Yes
ivory ridge
"Brazil will launch the tender for the new 8x8 combat vehicles on July 20. The companies interested in winning the contract will be able to present their proposals for the new armored vehicles for the Army that day"
https://www.infodefensa.com/texto-diario/mostrar/3818158/ejercito-brasileno-lanza-solicitud-propuesta-vbc-cav-msr-8x8
Centauro 2 vs whatever the chinese thing is called
also a LAV but whatever
manic latch
ST-1
cinder escarp
ivory ridge
ST-1 is just the uh
spring briar
> "Brazil will launch the tender for the new 8x8 combat vehicles on July 20. The...
Funky muzzle brake
cinder escarp
Note: the US Army considered both the AMX-10P and Marder 1 in the '70s.
The army was quite impressed with AMX-10P, although they considered the Marder 1 too big, heavy, and complicated.
manic latch
export version of the ZTL-11
If it has 105mm yes
cinder escarp
(It will be noted Bradley ended up bigger, heavier, and more complicated than Marder)
ivory ridge
It's Centauro 2 with 120, LAV 700 with 105 and ST-1 with 105
cinder escarp
AMX-10P went nowhere primarily as well, it wasn't American.
manic latch
I wouldn't risk buying from China as Brazil. Centauro could be nice option
cinder escarp
That's literally what the historic pieces say
ivory ridge
reminder that Brazil already has Iveco factories in the country
because of the Guarani
cinder escarp
The army also wanted a brand-new vehicle, which is why the AIFV wasn't bought despite otherwise meeting all requirements
manic latch
<:JeanDead:611004145658494977>
manic latch
A cute dragon?
Nah it's a hamster
cinder escarp
XM723 is what became Bradley
spring briar
Very funni krem
manic latch
Subculture
junior trench
(It will be noted Bradley ended up bigger, heavier, and more complicated than Ma...
Except it's not heavier, especially not after the applique armor packs for both
manic latch
junior trench
And the scope creep is less creep and more an understanding of what happens to ATGMs launchers that aren't under armor when prep arty is being thrown around*
*they fucking die
And your units are stripped of ATGM capability
cinder escarp
I double checked, and yes the Marder is actually a few tons heavier and I had it backwards.
Apologies.
That said, ATGM capability wasn't in the MICV requirement until the late 70s - the ATGM capability was itself scope creep.
Justified scope creep, but it was. Bradley was built with a single man 20/25mm turret to start, and that met the requirement.
junior trench
I fail to see how a thought terminating cliche about a subject barely related to the power train of an armored vehicle is "calling out bullshit" unless you're approaching this with an agenda
Though I suppose that's the whole point of the paper
What paper even is that anyway
cinder escarp
Because the AIFV completely met the MICV requirement and the army had no reason to turn it down other than that they didn't want a M113 derivative no matter how good it was?
Let me go dig out the paper, it's not some "bradley sucks lmao" rant
It's "The Bradley and how it Got that Way"
Contributions in Military Studies, Number 180 from Greenwood Press
It actually points out the Bradley ended up being a very good machine, but covers the tortuous history of the MICV in US development history and thought
I am not some pro-gavin reformer
shrewd pecan
smh just meet in the middle between the Gavin and the Bradley
ivory ridge
Bravin
shrewd pecan
Iâm generally curious so a question for both of @cinder escarp @junior trench were there any earlier attempts to make a Bradley replacement pre MGV and GCV programs?
like weâre there any 90s programs that took a swing at that can of warms
cinder escarp
There were '90s updates, but nothing serious before FCS
eternal veldt
I am already working on an (annually) updated document for all PR ships. Of course, details had to be brief to fit them in one page, but also intentional to spark interest (and maybe actually prompt someone to ask more detailed questions here).
As for @frigid karma's comment, ngl, not entirely sure if my doc is exactly "lore" stuff, but I don't want to bring back up the shitstorm 7 hours ago.
cinder escarp
like weâre there any 90s programs that took a swing at that can of warms
Fiberglass Bradley fiberglass Bradley
shrewd pecan
the ideal platform
junior trench
Picking AIFV leaves the army with an absolute dog once it becomes necessary to do even the basic sorts of upgrades done to M2A2, and something like the A3 is absolutely not happening.
If one of the options meets "all requirements" but could easily need a total replacement within a decade, then it's no surprise it'd be passed over.
frigid karma
Shouldnât the requirements be longevity in design
cinder escarp
I mean, AIFV was ready in the very early '70s and an A2/A3 level upgrade wouldn't be done in the US Army until the '90s.
AIFV has a good 20 years at least in it.
eternal veldt
Oh, forgot to mention yesterday (as those in WoWS discord already knew), the MoD lost Plymouth's design papers because of water damage, possibly from a leaky roof.
Someone thought the papers were unimportant, and chucked them.
Peak preservation care
eternal veldt
I dont think its wise to touch papers 50 years old
Some of the BdA prints are already in a pretty shit shape
@tough quail
The Panzerschkolade is real tasty today
tough quail
if only the wehrmacht was capable of making good firearms, so we didn't need to constantly see cope this inane
eternal veldt
How good was the MP40? I keep seeing it getting wanked.
frigid karma
Itâs pretty good, main thing with it being wanked is how common it was
tough quail
what ppsh envy does to a mfer
junior trench
How good was the MP40? I keep seeing it getting wanked.
It's a fancy blowback smg
Which is to say it's a bad blowback smg for massed warfare
Because you're fancying up the dead simplest automatic action ever
You get marginal ergonomic benefits to a weapon which ideally should be getting shit out en masse to the Nth degree
Which is why the Germans eventually just copied and adapted the sten several years too late
tough quail
there's also the funny issue where if you catch the bolt handle on mp40s up to like mid 1942 i think and pull it back about midwayish and release it
it just
chambers and fires
tough quail
yeah
they tried to fix it but the retrofitting never really went anywhere and i think the bulk of the guns were made by mid 42 given they kinda got poor after that
though in the mp40s case its pretty bad because the bolt handle is like
an enormous hook
humble mulch
Had it been used as like
An actual fucking smg
Then yeah itâs better then nothing and isnât that bad
But if youâre German command
It exists simply to send men with rifles to meat grinders
humble mulch
Western media also hypes the fuck out of it and does a poor job
Some hip firing hipster bullshit
frigid karma
Some hip firing hipster bullshit
I mean
tough quail
its not like, the worst thing
junior trench
Which actually reminds that German infantry are pathetic as hell on the offense in MoWAS2 (unless it's some Wehrb mod)
humble mulch
Even tho it
Has a fucking stock
tough quail
its at least easy to take apart and not convoluted garbage like most german guns
frigid karma
While sprinting around
junior trench
Though
humble mulch
Itâs shown off as some hip nazi command Tommy gun
junior trench
Come to think of it
humble mulch
Spray and pray in nearly every mother fucking ww2 movie
junior trench
I'm kind of curious if using a light bolt and a very heavy spring would help alleviate the drop safety problems blowback SMGs have
tough quail
that should make it a little better at least
humble mulch
Canât wait to get a repro mp40 for my Romanian kit
tough quail
get mags that dont suck ass
humble mulch
Iâm in CA
I
I donât think I can legally even get mags for it
tough quail
lmfao
humble mulch
dapper parcel
I'm kind of curious if using a light bolt and a very heavy spring would help all...
You'd still need to slow down the bolt somehow
otherwise I'd guess failure to feed all day long, everyday
humble mulch
I got my yugo M48, which is close enough to a fucking kar 98
Just need a Luger, Italian, or Soviet pistol, and then an smg
tough quail
tokarevs are cool and good
humble mulch
And I canât be fucking to actually build a ppsh
Wanna be able to show up to the historical reenactments and just pester the Soviet and Nazi cosplayers âtank pls, armor pls, ammo plsâ
frigid karma
I got my yugo M48, which is close enough to a fucking kar 98
Just need a Luger, ...
Would a bodeo do
tough quail
yfw the russian guy walks off and just actually rolls back up with a t-34
da
here u go
humble mulch
Would a bodeo do
Yes
Romania got a metric fuck ton of guns from Italy
They also used the carcano in âdecentâ numbers
Along with the Italian smg iirc but more limited
tough quail
everyone should have carcanos
somber knoll
Western media also hypes the fuck out of it and does a poor job
bad memories with those mocks aiming them by holding to the mag as a foregrip
incoming jams
humble mulch
If reenactment are anything like milsim events, I just point and shoot blanks
Also yeah Iâm not an inbreed I know not to hold shit by its mag
somber knoll
Carcanos and Beretta Modello 1918 is my ww2 smg fetish
somber knoll
The Beretta is just mmm
chef's kiss
also, what's the British lmg with mag being vertically challenged again?
humble mulch
I donât think Iâve ever seen the reason for why
somber knoll
I remember it for being my former second president's weapon of choice during our independence war.
humble mulch
Lewis makes sense cause itâs a pan and they just work better that way
cinder escarp
You want a simple, stamped blowback SMG that is drop safe?
you must go to brazil
humble mulch
and yeah I know thatâs not really an lmg
Thatâs interesting
Brazil of all places made a drop safe gun
cinder escarp
Oh and the gun is absurdly simple
humble mulch
Like Iâve seen the utter bullshit those guys make there
somber knoll
.303 British yah, not exactly LMG
cinder escarp
It makes the MP40 look complex
somber knoll
as in STEN simple or beyond that?
because you can build sten with just a drill, grinder, blacksmith tools, and appropriate materials and blueprint
humble mulch
I donât think you can beat a grease gun tho
junior trench
Finger bolt hole
spiral cedar
My brain read that as "butt" not "bolt"
Earlier today I had someone arguing with me that you can effectively defeat modern warships by firing .50 cal rounds at them from 8000 yards
somber knoll
Earlier today I had someone arguing with me that you can effectively defeat mode...
bring out that old 12.7 mm cannons
dapper parcel
How many .50 needed to bring down a barn?
I refuse to believe that this isn't already done
somber knoll
Earlier today I had someone arguing with me that you can effectively defeat mode...
how long it needs for the barrel to reach that range though
spiral cedar
That's the thing
The ballistic range of the bullet doesn't even reach 8000 yards
Let alone effective range
somber knoll
spiral cedar
For its part, General Dynamics officially lists the effective range as up to about 2000 yards for "area targets"
somber knoll
see, the 3500 meter record is a lucky thing
for the anti-materiel rifle variant I mean
dapper parcel
Not helped at all when you consider the exposed part of a radar is the most robust part, often literally steel bar
and most of it are passive
although I guess you can be lucky to hit the feed horn or elements, but that's often literally a stick
strong plank
so what Iâm hearing is 5000 yards is the sweet spot
spiral cedar
https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/M2HB-50-Caliber-Heavy-Machine-Gun.pdf
The official line is 7400 max ballistic range and 2000 max effective
But it will of course depend on what gun you fire it from
dapper parcel
I guess that's hotter load, or ignoring minimum velocity as long as the bullet arrives
spiral cedar
Ja
strong plank
go after an Arleigh Burke with an elephant gun
spiral cedar
MV is 3050 fps for this table
tough quail
typo below the model too
"it is assumed that WG that WG"
eternal veldt
frigid karma
Oh fuck I just talked about a pr ship oh god oh fu-
eternal veldt
Let's go to the shadow realm together
sullen canyon
spiral cedar
It has been an honor to know you two 
sullen canyon
Yes, how dare we talk about upcoming mechanics for Azur Lane here
tough quail
off to the pain dimension
strong plank
send his ass to detroit
spiral cedar
Azur Lane ships? In my Azur Lane server?
tough quail
dtroit
spiral cedar
frigid karma
The murmies will not be stopped
Until they come across their natural predator, undefined
Death comes to the fortunate murmies, the mutant ones are trapped in his emote servers for life
eternal veldt
undie just improves them
eternal veldt
Huh, russian source and Rowher are at odds for the primary armament of 71B, 8x 1 100mm (Rohwer) vs 8 x 2 130mm (RU) 
eternal veldt
71A called for singles
Its not too far fetched given that its the chosen one too
I'm leaning on the Russian side for this one for now
tribal mortar
ok then
eternal veldt
Would be nice if someone was able to see it, but unfortunately...
He knows already though, don't worry
desert agate
fierce sparrow
cold pumice
spring briar
isn't it beautiful
manic latch
Why you need water skip shell
spring briar
because it eliminates the z-direction as a variable
it travels in a straight line over the water surface
so as long as your bearing is correct it will hit
cold pumice
But how does it work in rough seas
cold pumice
And at long distances wouldn't it come in at too steep an angle
spring briar
that's why it's as light as possible
to have a flat trajectory for as long as possible
I have to adjust it a bunch tho
spring briar
unlikely
it won't skip that high
I'm debating if I should put rocket engines on the shell
so increase velocity during the skip
the shell is very niche
but could be very useful for shooting at groups of ships in port
but my main concern is to get the shape just right as to where it will skip at any given angle of entry into the water
so it needs a blunt head
and a long tail
like a teardrop shape
ivory ridge
Skill issue
spring briar
spiral cedar
Dead chat
spring briar
eternal veldt
I mean, feel free to raise a topic to discuss?
eternal veldt
Shells are not my forte, so I can't comment
eternal veldt
and I'm more pointing it for the new guy
Tell you what Riche, you want Augie loods?
manic latch
Augie boobs?
hollow wind
eternal veldt
again, did caught me off guard yesterday that NO didn't use ER/BR alternating arrangement
manic latch
Newbies holding the urge to post Super Yamato images the moment they join
Tho I prefer this over H-45
eternal veldt
See, the funny thing is, the 15.5cms would have been eliminated completely
spring briar
again, did caught me off guard yesterday that NO didn't use ER/BR alternating ar...
How so?
eternal veldt
By Shinano, the IJN would have been using 10cm guns on that position instead
spring briar
I don't think she could have been as light as she was otherwise
spiral cedar
Believe they went away from that arrangement as part of the NO class weight savings
To fit more armor on
spring briar
ergo jaba takes the words out of my mouth
spiral cedar
And came back with the St. Louis subclass
spring briar
spiral cedar
spring briar
dammit jaba
eternal veldt
That so? So Brooklyns are also just ER/BR?
spiral cedar
Depends on what you consider âunitâ
spring briar
staggered shafts
spiral cedar
Is ER/BR alternating âunitâ as some authors use it
spiral cedar
Or is only combined MR âunitâ as other authors use it
spring briar
the boilers can be in a seperate compartiment forward
that's how I see it
as long as the engines are all in seperate compartiments
with staggered shafts
hollow wind
Battle of Kursk but Germans are better
spiral cedar
what ships did the USN use unit machinery on
Anyway, the obvious answer would be NC/SD
hollow wind
The massacre of Kursk
eternal veldt
What is unit machinery?
Per my understanding, it's that the turbine and the boiler is inside the same compartment
gilded girder
jaba show him the iowa
Ah. I see
eternal veldt
Compared to earlier arrangements, where turbines and boilers are separate, usually with the boilers forward and two groups of turbines behind
gilded girder
Oh. So every engine in a separate room...kind of thing?
eternal veldt
The massacre of Kursk
Funny. Now grab a fire extinguisher and stop that Elefant from catching on fire.
spring briar
Oh. So every engine in a separate room...kind of thing?
yes, but you can also have every engine + boiler in a seperate compartiment
which is what the iowa's had
manic latch
URAAAAAAA
spring briar
saves even more space
spring briar
yeah
hollow wind
Battle of Leyte Gulf
spring briar
the boilers provide steam which then gets used to drive a turbine that drives the shafts
hollow wind
Battle of Leyte Gulf
A lot of slap downs in 1944 Philippines
spring briar
then there's the diesel propulsion
which is just a big diesel engine
and diesel electric
is for crazy people
gilded girder
then there's the diesel propulsion
which is just a big diesel engine
So. No boilers?
spring briar
turbo electric is fine
hollow wind
A lot of slap downs in 1944 Philippines
And the biggest slap down was losing not one but TWO fuso classes and almost if not all carriers
spring briar
since you need that anyways for power in a ship
hollow wind
And the biggest slap down was losing not one but TWO fuso classes and almost if ...
AND MUSASHI
eternal veldt
How does it work? Still a BR/ER?
hollow wind
That's a lot of damage
spring briar
How does it work? Still a BR/ER?
Dunno
spring briar
Want me to make a spreadsheet of all propulsion systems?
eternal veldt
By Leyte, what's left of the IJN carrier force is used as bait anyway, since most of the freshly trained aviation crew are dead during the Philippines sea
gilded girder
and diesel electric
Ngl Ion even know the difference between these
eternal veldt
Of course it's a beat down
spiral cedar
NC and SD are both the purest form of unit machinery, both boilers and turbines in the same compartment, and each compartment powers a shaft
hollow wind
By Leyte, what's left of the IJN carrier force is used as bait anyway, since mos...
The Kentucky turkeyshoot
Or something like that
spiral cedar
Marianas
eternal veldt
Marianas' Turkey Shoot, yes.
hollow wind
They did start using kamikaze there
eternal veldt
No.
spiral cedar
Iowa is still âunitâ in practice but with an asterisk because each âunitâ is subdivided transversely between the boilers and turbines
eternal veldt
Kamikazes started at Leyte, in the aftermath of Samar.
spiral cedar
But still functionally unitized
spring briar
hollow wind
Kamikazes started at Leyte, in the aftermath of Samar.
Ah yes imagine losing to ships so small it was called escort destroyers not destroyers
dapper parcel
spring briar
Did any other navies than USN and MN use unit machinery?
eternal veldt
I don't know man, try getting your flagship torpedoed and swim for your life, getting swarmed by US planes, losing one of your battleships, then encounter enemy forces while you are rearranging into a new formation
gilded girder
What does PM and HR stands for?
spiral cedar
So the rooms at the far ends are the turbines
eternal veldt
I think most other nations are running with ER/BR
spiral cedar
And then the boilers in the middle
hollow wind
I don't know man, try getting your flagship torpedoed and swim for your life, ge...
What's dumb is sacrficing not one but ALL OF YOUR CARRIERS
dapper parcel
What does PM and HR stands for?
Powder Magazine
Handling Room
hollow wind
And still losing 3 battleships
gilded girder
Powder Magazine
Handling Room
Ah 
eternal veldt
A single carrier isn't worth it to pull TF38 out of position for the Centre Force to break through San Bernardino Strait
A carrier task group, however, is.
spiral cedar
Bismarckâs is
EBB
E BB
EBB
yes but still losing 3 battleships is a major loss
eternal veldt
So what? It's all in or die
spiral cedar
Basically each EBB group is arranged longitudinally rather than transversely
eternal veldt
The IJN wanted their decisive battle badly, and they'll get it no matter the costs
Unfortunately, just not in their favour by that point in the war
spiral cedar
Which, theoretically protects the center shaft better, but also means that thereâs a high chance that any hit that defeats the TDS abreast machinery can take out a shaft entirely
hollow wind
Unfortunately, just not in their favour by that point in the war
Well thankfully for the Japanese the Soviet navy was a big joke back then
spiral cedar
(And also the center shaft kinda sucked)
hollow wind
Well thankfully for the Japanese the Soviet navy was a big joke back then
The army isn't but the navy is
eternal veldt
And the Soviet Navy is relevant to Leyte because?
hollow wind
And the Soviet Navy is relevant to Leyte because?
Just talking about at least they weren't as bad as Russian navy
spiral cedar
And hereâs KGV
eternal veldt
Oh right, speaking of shafts
spiral cedar
eternal veldt
Soyuz's, hang on
hollow wind
So let's track how they started losing
spiral cedar
Effectively the KGV layout comes out to
EBEB
EBEB
hollow wind
So let's track how they started losing
The Coral Sea they lost their Shoho and had 2 other carriers damaged
eternal veldt
Strip your turbine with 70k ShP in style
hollow wind
The Coral Sea they lost their Shoho and had 2 other carriers damaged
Which means a failed attempt of the taking of port moresby
spiral cedar
Where the KGV basically uses its backup diesel generators as an additional TDS layer to compensate for the rather shallow dedicated TDS
eternal veldt
To analyze the defeat of the Japanese Navy purely by major naval battles only is a gross oversimplication
spiral cedar
And then we have Yamato
hollow wind
there's more
spring briar
Oh no
eternal veldt
Ever wonder why the Japanese kept themselves hulked up at the home islands by late war?
hollow wind
The wake island battle
spiral cedar
E BBB
EBBB
EBBB
E BBB
It's because they're losing their merchant marine in embarrassing fashion
It's the boring small ships that keep the gears turning
hollow wind
the Japanese losing bcs they didn't bomb the oil repair and sub port in pearl harbor
eternal veldt
Irrelevant.
eternal veldt
If Japan could not secure a negotiation within 6 months of commencing the war, the war is lost.
hollow wind
If Japan could not secure a negotiation within 6 months of commencing the war, t...
Yes they were more to speed
Not power
eternal veldt
Bombing Pearl Harbour ensured that a negotiation is not possible in the first place.
spiral cedar
Note how with Yamato and Bitchmark, all the boiler rooms are grouped together and all the engine rooms are grouped together
hollow wind
Bombing Pearl Harbour ensured that a negotiation is not possible in the first pl...
Yes as that will cause a vengeance from the US to grow
hollow wind
Note how with Yamato and Bitchmark, all the boiler rooms are grouped together an...
Which means one hit one critical hit stops it completely
spiral cedar
Yes, they have extra longitudinal bulkheads to ideally shield deeper machinery spaces from flooding from a single hit
But that comes at a cost in listing moment from off-center flooding
hollow wind
Which means one hit one critical hit stops it completely
It would be dead in the water if something hit critically
spring briar
Normally this wouldnât be the biggest problem yet
hollow wind
And a big target for the strategic bombers
eternal veldt
Landing a hit from a high altitude strategic bomber is difficult
hollow wind
And a big target for the strategic bombers
The British used the bombers to hit the navy a lot and with one laying in the middle of ocean dead ready to get hit subs and planes will easily sink it
hollow wind
The British used the bombers to hit the navy a lot and with one laying in the mi...
British subs
eternal veldt
You're likely more afraid of a dive bomber or a torpedo
spiral cedar
TFW Bismarckâs horizontal protection is about equal to an unmodernized 1911 design battleship
hollow wind
You're likely more afraid of a dive bomber or a torpedo
Yes
spiral cedar
hollow wind
Bcs torpedo bombers don't need to calculate where to drop it
eternal veldt
They absolutely do
hollow wind
Bcs it ain't moving
hollow wind
They absolutely do
They do but it gets easier
eternal veldt
Not even remotely close
hollow wind
Oh yes AA
eternal veldt
You're flying under extremely heavy anti aircraft fire when you are commencing a torpedo run
hollow wind
You're flying under extremely heavy anti aircraft fire when you are commencing a...
And they were using darn biplanes
eternal veldt
You'd need to slow down as well, because otherwise the torpedo would broach or jackknife into the water
hollow wind
And they were using darn biplanes
And target is stationary so the AA gunners does not need to account as much
dapper parcel
Screw redundancy, make every shaft interconnected and feed them off a single flow
eternal veldt
They are not stationary? The ship is likely moving at extremely high speeds
Enterprise famously narrowly avoided a torpedo at Santa Cruz by executing a sharp turn
hollow wind
They are not stationary? The ship is likely moving at extremely high speeds
No we were talking if the engine and boiler everything got hit and it was dead in the water
But yes
hm
hollow wind
Enterprise famously narrowly avoided a torpedo at Santa Cruz by executing a shar...
Still amazed by the hornet surviving so many bombs and torpedoes
eternal veldt
Damage control would likely get the ship running again unless you somehow also manage to knock that out (which did happen for Yamato)
hollow wind
Damage control would likely get the ship running again unless you somehow also m...
Well the Yamato had trash outdated AA and 250 planes were going in to her
spiral cedar
What I am sort of curious about is when the US went over to alternating ER/BR for destroyers
hollow wind
They were usin people holding sticks to determine targets
hollow wind
They were usin people holding sticks to determine targets
They point the stick to the plane they want to shoot
spring briar
They were usin people holding sticks to determine targets
that's only to help accuracy and spotting of shot
hollow wind
And just scream generally at the enemy direction
spring briar
and not a dumb idea
spiral cedar
What I am sort of curious about is when the US went over to alternating ER/BR fo...
Because I believe one of my RN history books mentions the USN DDs by way of comparison as especially durable
maiden citrus
What I am sort of curious about is when the US went over to alternating ER/BR fo...
it's hard to find when but it was earlier then I expected
hollow wind
That moment when the yamato's magazine explosion downed more planes than the many AA guns
spring briar
is that even confirmed
hollow wind
is that even confirmed
good question
spring briar
since taking out planes with a blast wave is not particularly easy
they aren't subs
hollow wind
since taking out planes with a blast wave is not particularly easy
Planes were strafing and torpedoing everywhere
eternal veldt
Likely eyewitness reports, something about circling planes above
spring briar
Planes were strafing and torpedoing everywhere
even still
they'd have to have flown into the fireball to actually be downed with any chance
which is unlikely
spiral cedar
First I heard of the idea was Drach just subtracting known AA losses from total failures to return and attributing the rest to the magazine
Which is
suspect
hollow wind
Ah yes the Kaga
Got bombed so many times it was literally hell and the witnesses doesn't even know how many bombs hit it
eternal veldt
5 hits.
eternal veldt
Because bombs and aviation fuel below were not stored properly in the haste to rearm the planes
hollow wind
In the inner deck
spring briar
that's normal
dapper parcel
What I am sort of curious about is when the US went over to alternating ER/BR fo...
It has to be Benson, right
Sims was ER ER BR BR
hollow wind
Well the Akagi
spring briar
oh no no no
spring briar
I can't wait
hollow wind
Well the Akagi
Hit once by Dick Best right into the middle elevator
hollow wind
Hit once by Dick Best right into the middle elevator
And everything exploded to pieces
eternal veldt
Dick Best and his Wingmen broke off to engage her
hollow wind
Even the fighters that was about to take off
spiral cedar
One of the weird little things that no one mentions in paper stats but actually matters a lot for damcon
hollow wind
Dick Best and his Wingmen broke off to engage her
2 misses and one hit
spiral cedar
water main metal quality
Akagi and Wasp both had iirc cast iron piping
shattered from explosions
Made firefighting very hard
eternal veldt
Damage control in general seems to not be mentioned a lot
Generators alone imo are important enough
hollow wind
What was the most brutal death of a ship in history?
hollow wind
What was the most brutal death of a ship in history?
The Hood or?
spiral cedar
What was the most brutal death of a ship in history?
USS Mount Hood is pretty high up there
eternal veldt
"Oh fuck, our generators are knocked out, pumps cannot be used"
"Get the buckets"
Usually a violent explosion is pretty bad
spiral cedar
hollow wind
Named after a volcano exploded like a volcano
dapper parcel
Balancing act, comrades
Pump too good you risk sinking your own ship
maiden citrus
One of the weird little things that no one mentions in paper stats but actually ...
yeah, you have to get extremely technical to get beyond paper stats for a lot of ships
dapper parcel
Cries in SS Normandie
spiral cedar
âHoodâ is just a very unlucky name
hollow wind
Named after a volcano exploded like a volcano
Worse than the coal strike definitely
eternal veldt
But, if we want to talk about brutal deaths in a warship...
hollow wind
âHoodâ is just a very unlucky name
And anything that's called invincible
eternal veldt
I'll have to give it to the sailors at Pearl
spring briar
*Cries in SS Normandie*
hollow wind
I'll have to give it to the sailors at Pearl
Flipped and trapped in a cap sizing ship
And burning
eternal veldt
And the poor sods that have to clean the "meat locker" out later
hollow wind
And the poor sods that have to clean the "meat locker" out later
The ones cleaning the still usable battleships
spiral cedar
I mean, usable eventually
hollow wind
I... Dont think they're usable
They were used on the Philippines and destroyed the 2 Fuso classes
hollow wind
I mean, usable eventually
Yea
eternal veldt
Hence the meat locker comment
hollow wind
Named after a volcano exploded like a volcano
I guess irony strike her
maiden citrus
like how mahan has double reduction gearing, cruising turbines, etc
dapper parcel
Not any worse than any shipwreck tbh
Watery graves are always nasty, that's why most don't bother and just declare the wreck as graves
hollow wind
Which war operation was better and more mind blowing?
dapper parcel
It only need 1 day in the tropics for everything to be liquified
hollow wind
Which war operation was better and more mind blowing?
Falklands war or operation Desert Storm
spiral cedar
The latter
Falklands was very scuffed on both sides
The Argies just messed up more
spring briar
desert storm was a pure display of world power
hollow wind
Falklands was very scuffed on both sides
But the coordination on desert storm
Damn nice
dapper parcel
Desert Storm was like shooting at literal sitting duck
spiral cedar
Sitting duck that had been bombed for a month
hollow wind
But Operation Barbarossa that's a lot of encirclements in a span of some months and a lot of land taken
maiden citrus
when you are winning so fast your enemies can't even report to their superiors how fast they were losing
dapper parcel
To describe the Iraqi as having no clue was an understatement
spring briar
literally macedonia vs late persia all over again
hollow wind
But Operation Barbarossa that's a lot of encirclements in a span of some months ...
That's a lot of damage
All that in half a year
spiral cedar
Barbarossa is one operation as opposed to an entire war
So not really 1:1 comparable
hollow wind
hm
I guess fictional operations it is
hm
All I got is ace combat 7 when erusea conquered that many with belkan drones
spring briar
eternal veldt
spiral cedar
Video game discussions can get you evicted permanently from the channel due to certain moderators, be careful
eternal veldt
Partition Belka
spiral cedar
spring briar
Belka totally not being Prussia amirite
except belka actually has modern tech
prussia was still using a 1836 design in 1870
eternal veldt
Well, that, and they nuked themselves
eternal veldt
So nobody commenting how its a war crime
spiral cedar
The Coral Sea they lost their Shoho and had 2 other carriers damaged
Shouhou sunk, yes, but only Shoukaku was damaged. Zuikaku lived a charmed life and was undamaged until shortly after her sister sank at Philippine Sea
eternal veldt
Zuikek had her airgroup chipped quite a bit though
eternal veldt
Thus why the 5th Cardiv not being present at Midway
dapper parcel
The thing is, in IJN it only need 1 damaged ship for the entire Carrier Division to be inoperational
hollow wind
No game talk then let me get a big battle
Operation Bagration
hollow wind
Operation Bagration
Thin lines overran by Russian troops
spiral cedar
1000 Thebans(?)
eternal veldt
The air groups were quite rigid, I think
Can't pull a "transfer Sara's airgroup to Yorktown" thing
maiden citrus
the 300 spartans weren't even fighting, they were just going out for a walk
dapper parcel
Not only the airgroup, the entire CVBG is inflexible
hollow wind
Can't pull a "transfer Sara's airgroup to Yorktown" thing
A lil too hasty to do that
hollow wind
A lil too hasty to do that
Japanese were relying on speed
eternal veldt
Even damage control groups are like that 
spiral cedar
The airgroups at the time were conceptualized as the specific shipâs weapon
dapper parcel
Zuikaku has to sortie with Shoukaku, period
spiral cedar
Not as a self-contained fighting force that just happened to be based on this particular ship that sortie
Iâm unfamiliar with whether this concept changed by 1944 but the IJN certainly had started including âshuttle bombingâ in their planning by Philippine Sea
spring briar
Japan trading their oldest BB's while keeping the new ones in port due to oil shortage
lovely
dapper parcel
That Zuikaku will sortie with Kaga for example would be unthinkable
hollow wind
We know that Montgomery was having the big dumbs on the West Europe 1944 - 1945 campaign which is why Eisenhower ess the boss
spring briar
hollow wind
We know that Montgomery was having the big dumbs on the West Europe 1944 - 1945 ...
Like the extra big dumbs when trying to take the benelux
dapper parcel
That's just Eisenhower being practical
hollow wind
hm
hollow wind
Like the extra big dumbs when trying to take the benelux
Haha let's paratroop on king tigers
eternal veldt
Japan trading their oldest BB's while keeping the new ones in port due to oil sh...
Eh, they sortied Fusos during Leyte since they don't exactly have a lot of other ships remaining
Their full CV...conversion would have been interesting, to say the least
spring briar
Eh, they sortied Fusos during Leyte since they don't exactly have a lot of other...
those are old
wdym
maiden citrus
old and bad even new
hollow wind
Eh, they sortied Fusos during Leyte since they don't exactly have a lot of other...
They just said screw dis shid we make the enemy get big damage
eternal veldt
23 knot CVs, likely poor hangar capacity too unless they decide to massively rework the whole hull
spiral cedar
the Japanese losing bcs they didn't bomb the oil repair and sub port in pearl ha...
Iâll quote a previous write-up I did on the topic:
eternal veldt
Unfortunately Hyuuga decided to do a gamer move and blew up her 5th turret
spring briar
anyways Belgium and the Netherlands remaining neutral at the start of ww2 has to be the biggest oof in benelux history
spiral cedar
Then we reach the most popular idea: attacking the fuel tanks. While a visceral mental image, the fact of the matter is that the Japanese themselves recognized that the Kido Butai lacked the ordinance needed to destroy Pearl Harborâs fuel storage capacity. In addition to 54 major fuel tanks and numerous avgas tanks, the moored oiler Neosho also carried substantial fuel. To put this into perspective, the entire Pacific Fleet surface force at Pearl Harbor that day could have been fueled up to full more than nine times over with the 563,000 tons of storage available. On top of this are the numerous fleet oilers:
Prewar, Pearl was serviced by three commercial tankers making a continuous shuttle from the California oil fields. They were delivering about 40â50,000 tons of fuel monthly, enough to meet the fleetâs training needs plus build up reserves to near capacity. The Pacific Fleet had a total of 11 tankers, of which four were fitted for underway replenishment.
dapper parcel
What BB was not old in IJN anyway....
hollow wind
Iâll quote a previous write-up I did on the topic:
they forgor
eternal veldt
Kongous, if you consider them as Fast BBs
hollow wind
but yeah
maiden citrus
only the yamatos really
spring briar
Mutsu an Nagato can be argued
but by that point
eternal veldt
Nagato's still alright in their book
spring briar
Mutsu died
spiral cedar
Thatâs a lot of ordinance that would be needed to substantially cripple the fleetâs fuel storage, and even that would not prevent quick replenishment within weeks. And machine gun fire was out of the question; the steel tank walls were sufficiently thick to stop the rounds of Zeroes, and the Japanese lacked API rounds that could both perforate the steel wall (AP) and ignite the fuel (I).
For fuel oil or diesel, a bullet would not ignite the fuel. If the bullet penetrates below the liquid level there is no air to support combustion. Even if there was oxygen, the flash point of the fuel is too high, and any bullets hitting a pool of fuel would not carry enough energy to raise any significant volume of fuel to temperatures where ignition could be sustained.
dapper parcel
Kongo got high utilization simply because they're fast
spring briar
and Nagato got modernised to some degree
spiral cedar
So bombing would be needed, bombs not allocated to the substantial remaining surface assets of the Pacific Fleet. Already very un-Japanese, but regardless the question about the potential damage remains.
A real measure of the impact of the destruction of the tanks and fuel would be how long it would have taken to restore the damage. Oil tanks are simple constructsâa steel shell, a floating top, and a roof. The shell was essentially shaped sheet metal, something easily handled by the shipyard. It would have taken about 5,000 tons of steel to reconstruct the damaged or destroyed tanks. That amount of metal could have been provided by one cargo shipment from the West Coast. The consequences might have been on the order of imposing a two-month delay in the construction of two destroyers.
Hardly a crippling cost to the United States.
But what of the lost oil? How long could it take to refill the storage tanks? To replace the lost storage in a month it would have taken 12-20 tankers. For comparison,
At the end of 1941 there were about 120 tankers under US registry, with another 80 in Allied service under Panamanian registry and other flags of convenience. Ships were thereâit was a matter of which tasks had the highest priority.
Certainly, the initial, shocked statements of leaders of the time should be subject to scrutiny rather than taken merely at face value.
dapper parcel
Nagato was considered old tbf
spring briar
Kongo got high utilization simply because they're fast
and because they're the oldest units
hollow wind
Extra unlucky as the carriers wasn't in the harbor but outside the harbor as well
spring briar
not compared to the kongo's or fusos
hollow wind
Extra unlucky as the carriers wasn't in the harbor but outside the harbor as wel...
Which is a major bruh me ment for the Japanese
eternal veldt
Nagato at least got a couple more refits in the 1930s
Compared to the running shitshows that are Fusos
spring briar
Compared to the running shitshows that are Fusos
got a good book on that?
eternal veldt
Granted, their first designed BB and all
spring briar
spiral cedar
they forgor
Basically, attacking the fuel tanks wouldnât have actually achieved much given the USâs replenishment capabilities
hollow wind
Extra unlucky as the carriers wasn't in the harbor but outside the harbor as wel...
They were just outside to be able to launch SBD Dauntless to intercept some Japanese planes
eternal veldt
Think RA Burt had a book on it, I'll check later
Also included the memes that are the horrible living conditions
hollow wind
Basically, attacking the fuel tanks wouldnât have actually achieved much given t...
Hm hoe about the repair ports
alpine onyx
Did any other navies than USN and MN use unit machinery?
Germans did with some ships
eternal veldt
so bad that you have to stay on the weather deck
spring briar
Germans did with some ships
which ones?
dapper parcel
If Fuso was considered shitshow, then IDK what Ise was
alpine onyx
Type 1939 FTBs had unit machinery
spring briar
fair
hollow wind
If Fuso was considered shitshow, then IDK what Ise was
Ah the Ise
alpine onyx
Precious little workers