history

[gilded girder]

[lapis wraith]

why that give me though

[manic latch]

What

[spring briar]

starfighter?

[desert agate]

TSR-2

[lapis wraith]

idk i was listening to "God, King and Fatherland"seing this image

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Vale asked for more pics

[gilded girder]

Exhaust plez

😳

[spring briar]

oh
Hi Vale

[desert agate]

Its the British version of Arrow copium

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Bro that planes on the other end of the museum

[gilded girder]

[desert agate]

I cannot be fucked

[gilded girder]

I'm too late

Owell

[spring briar]

Kremlin and I when 9x39 mm

[desert agate]

I gotta go back that way to leave

[manic latch]

[gilded girder]

's there a Stuka tho?

Or Corsair

[desert agate]

So snap a pic

There's a corsair but it's privately owned and flyable so i couldn't access it

[gilded girder]

Misery

[spring briar]

atleast planes fit in a museum

[desert agate]

There was a French P-36

[spring briar]

oh

pic

[desert agate]

Also flyable

[spring briar]

neat

good plane?

[desert agate]

Did the job

Not exceptional by any means

[gilded girder]

Somewhat successful export-wise(?)

Especially to France

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

But for 39-40 it was alright

[manic latch]

Soviet P-36 is better

[desert agate]

It's last major combat was early 42 when it was massacred by the Japanese

Oh the Chinese also used them idk when they withdrew them from service

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

Spon the plon

I love byplanes

[desert agate]

I know a guy who flys with the Perth biplanes club

They used to do formation flying pm Australia day

Idk if they still do the Australia Day airshow in Perth tho

They cancelled it for a few years after the crash

And then covid shit

And I haven't been since the crash I don't think

https://youtu.be/thyAJivXsPg

[spring briar]

how's the pilot?

oh

nvm

they died

[desert agate]

Dumbfuck flies a plane he's not qualified to fly, illegally takes his mistress on the plane with him, then does dangerous aerobatics probably to impress her

[spring briar]

that's how accidents at the gun range happen too

[manic latch]

Didn't forget France too

[spring briar]

don't mention the commune

also don't mention the franco prussian war

nor spain

nor eugénie

nor victoria

nor bismarck

[lapis wraith]

french commune

[lapis wraith]

spanish civil war

[subtle prawn]

https://youtu.be/rxCWnkRuH6Y

[desert agate]

@gilded girder my phone went flat I had to get to my car to get my powerbank

So no more TSR sadly

I just fucking missed a picture of a spitfire and 109 flying in formation

Because my fucking phone didn't open my camera fast enough

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Sipher be like

Enters chat
Posts video link
leaves

[gilded girder]

[spring briar]

[delicate beacon]

reminds me of https://youtu.be/GgNV0N3p9qs

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

Actually

I think Turkiye is offical now

During last NATO meeting. They announced them as Turkiye not Turkey

[dapper parcel]

Turkiye was always official
Just like Nihon over Japan, or Zongguo over China

[rapid junco]

Just like the Netherlands are officially the Netherlands?

Well
That affects me, a portuguese speaker

Who is used to call it "Holanda"
Now i've to call it "Países Baixos" or "Neerlândia"

[manic latch]

[dapper parcel]

Now every time I see Países Baixos I'm reminded of that glorious Spanish F1 article

[rapid junco]

That would be Paises Bajos

With the J almost sounding like a R

[dapper parcel]

Same etymology

[rapid junco]

Yeah
Low Countries

I prefer using Neerlândia

[manic latch]

Dutchmania

[somber knoll]

Nederland Inlaander!

[manic latch]

Huh

Hyundai Rotem next-generation wheeled armored vehicle concept with the goal of putting it into practical use after 2035.

[dapper parcel]

What's with new AFV with their barrel shrouds...?

[ivory ridge]

Looks more futuristic

[desert agate]

They distribute the heat I believe

Helps with avoiding IR detection

That's my guess

[manic latch]

Mostly this

General Dynamics Land Systems wins a $1.14 billion contract to built new Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF) light tank for the US Army Infantry Brigade Combat Teams.

[manic latch]

"The Army could announce a name for the tank at the annual Association of the U.S. Army conference in Washington in October", Army Acquisition Executive Doug Bush said.

So Griffin II is just the manufacturer's name, the Army will name MPF tank after the generals.

[manic latch]

I would go with Summerall or Craig. MacArthur could be problematic

[dapper parcel]

Wait, 82nd airborne is now mechanized?
What?

[manic latch]

Isn't this girl for airborne forces?

Since light boy

[strong plank]

Alright everyone

Place your bets

what’s the designation gonna be

M-?

[manic latch]

She reminds me of M22 Locust

So what's close to that

M23?

[dapper parcel]

Could be M1 for what's it worth
Since new role

[manic latch]

[dapper parcel]

For the cavalry regiment I guess, replacing(?) LAV(?)

[manic latch]

@shrewd pecan
"A next-generation Stryker upgrade that is currently in a concept development phase, possibly called the Stryker A2 double-v hull, will include a range of vehicle protection enhancements", Col. William Venable said.

[strong plank]

Nah, they wouldn’t operate two separate tanks both named M1

[manic latch]

She cute

[dapper parcel]

The absolute troll if it gets M8 tho
So it might be M9 if sequential or M10 if no overlap

[manic latch]

Sadly she is using 105mm

120mm is likely too large

[manic latch]

Hopefully she has some ejection system for it

[strong plank]

inb4 like

M9 Schwarzkopf

or something

[manic latch]

@ivory ridge

K2 PL )))

Seems Poland got a new tank for their collection

[viscid dust]

Sup

[tough quail]

K2PL is blessed

because it looks way nicer than the regular K2

[manic latch]

@tough quail

[tough quail]

yos

[manic latch]

@spring briar

The brochure of Nexter's new 120mm SHARD (Mk1) APFSDS for EMBT and Leclerc XLR tank

[spring briar]

what's the LOS pen

[manic latch]

Isn't that classified

[dapper parcel]

Is there a STANAG for that or is it just whatever condition the manufacturer deems reasonable ?

Otherwise, yeah, numbers

[spiral cedar]

For average standard charge MV, 6crh shells (Vanguard), flat broadside (90 deg target angle), Bismarck machinery spaces

**Immune zone - 1000-20000 yards (19000 yards wide)**
"Completely" immune zone - 30000-13000 yards (-17000 yards wide) [no holing of main belt or main armor deck]

Note: Due to short British delay fuzes, the median shell will need to strike at above 26000 yards to penetrate the main armor deck before detonating—though fuze variance will permit some shells at shorter ranges to get through.

For average supercharge MV, 6crh shells (Vanguard), flat broadside (90 deg target angle), Bismarck machinery spaces

**Immune zone - 10000-21000 yards (11000 yards wide)**
"Completely" immune zone - 34000-15000 yards (-19000 yards wide) [no holing of main belt or main armor deck]

Note: Due to short British delay fuzes, the median shell will need to strike at above 28000 yards to penetrate the main armor deck before detonating—though fuze variance will permit some shells at shorter ranges to get through.

WIP, but will try to add magazine area later

[frigid karma]

got it, time to spam HE

[spiral cedar]

[delicate beacon]

ooh, brazilian stuff IVS stuff https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/brazilian-never-were-warship-proposals-1920-1940.34029/page-2#post-458288

[spiral cedar]

Oh right, @maiden citrus @jagged monolith @spring briar @tough quail @eternal veldt @junior trench @ivory ridge

[ivory ridge]

[spiral cedar]

May be of mild interest

[spring briar]

don't forget a negative number for immune zone means both belt and deck get penned

[spiral cedar]

Bismarck is sort of the ship you don't want to fire HE at

[frigid karma]

i'd say w23 counts as HE

[somber knoll]

Thanx. Also a good opportunity to compare now that the 6crh shell is now added at the core shop in the next maintenance

[spiral cedar]

Fixed a typo

Note when I say "Vanguard" I mean that all the British 15" guns with modernizations use the 6crh shell. Only the unmodernized mountings (e.g. on HMS Hood) use the shorter 4crh shell (the 4crh shells were also the only ones to actually receive supercharges historically)

[frigid karma]

i mean, in a situation where VG would need to fire on enemy BBs she most likely would have carried supercharges, no?

[dapper parcel]

I wonder if the lack of supercharge for 6crh is chamber volume/pressure problem, since it's longer afterall

But there's number for 6crh w/ supercharge so it's at least tested if not certified or operational

Ah, nvm. I thought 6crh was heavier.

[spiral cedar]

It’s plausible

But it has to be remembered that the primary purpose was to extend range

Which made it important for the low elevation guns

[spiral cedar]

US 1908 AP included 12” 7crh projectiles

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

Early AP projectiles were 2.5crh or 3crh. In 1908 AP projectiles were fitted with a longer ballistic cap of 7crh which improved their ballistic performance and increased penetration ability at longer ranges.

[frigid karma]

A new addition to maka’s hot dog condiments

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2022/06/29/hershel-woody-williams-last-living-wwii-medal-of-honor-recipient-dies

[rapid junco]

[ivory ridge]

In 1965, O.T.O. Melara of La Spezia was presenting to the Navy a project relating to a "compacted2 medium caliber cannon, developed on the specifications developed by M.M. itself, but leaving it to the latter the choice of the caliber that the weapon should have had: 135 or 127 mm. The project had been drawn up by O.T.O. in a relatively short period of time, being able to draw on the experience previously acquired with the construction of the 76/62 mm and with the rejuvenation of the 135/45 mm embarked on the missile cruiser GARIBALDI.

In the evaluation stage, the Navy chose the 127 mm caliber, almost certainly in relation to the evident logistical advantages deriving from the choice of a weapon whose positioning is widely used within the NATO Marine Corps. This fact justified the abandonment of the 135 mm caliber, although a piece of this caliber could have been considered superior in terms of firepower, in favour of smaller footprint and lower costs.

[maiden citrus]

Some projection in the backread but negative immune zone always funny

[manic latch]

Damn

Why not make NATO pass to 135mm slowly?

[desert agate]

Sshtu

1305mm

[tough quail]

l a r g e

[ivory ridge]

also heard that Garibaldi never actually received the "new" 135/53, but they simply swapped the /45 barrels with /53 ones to improve performance

but im not 100% sure about that

[manic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-reality-is-often-disappointing-stone-infinity-stone-gamora-gif-14046382

[tough quail]

eh the barrel of the important bit

its fine

[desert agate]

Usshit

[manic latch]

One day this will happen Horse
One day

[ivory ridge]

the actual 135/53 was supposed to go to 25 rpm per gun

from 20

so yesnt

[tough quail]

fair shout

still, its a solid improvement

[manic latch]

Speaking of that

What did /53 do after the upgrade

Any action?

[desert agate]

Iitaliam

[ivory ridge]

stolen from phoenix

[manic latch]

bites your finger

[desert agate]

Cc

[ivory ridge]

not sure about the /53 1957 tho

[manic latch]

Did you know Soviet citizens had more daily calory intakes than Americans because they consumed more potatoes and cheese?

While Americans had more meat

[tough quail]

the cheese bit is actually kind of surprising

[desert agate]

Ccunt

Ddonot

Care

[manic latch]

WOOF WOOF

[desert agate]

Nnerd

[manic latch]

Xaxaxaxa

[desert agate]

.

[manic latch]

Tvorog

[tough quail]

u rite

[manic latch]

How to solve 130-140mm shell loader problem

Exoskeletons

Maybe I can princess Carry Soyuz with this

[tender monolith]

soyuz too fat

[manic latch]

even better

[maiden citrus]

[desert agate]

Ddgho

[manic latch]

Doggo

[manic latch]

BBQ party with Soyuz when

[spiral cedar]

Don’t go on this server while drunk

[desert agate]

[maiden citrus]

what the dog doin'

[desert agate]

Ookkdadd

[manic latch]

Remember the time I mixed wine with beer

[maiden citrus]

gettin devoured that's what

[manic latch]

[chilly osprey]

Most of the time when the upgrade is mentioned it's only ever stated that they moved to /53's.

The source I have that actually gives the performance of the gun, and the rate of fire of the /45, is Giorgerini & Nani's Gli Incrociatori Italiani, 3rd edition, which is the version published after that upgrade (1st edition is 1964, 2nd is 1967, 3rd is 1971).

If that helps.

[ivory ridge]

[loud comet]

which ships that use the 6crh shell in real life?

[chilly osprey]

Huh, yeah, now that I'm checking, that specific tidbit is something added by the third edition

This is the passage in the 2nd edition;

And then in the third edition;

[dapper parcel]

that's unusually many significant figures for the weight

[chilly osprey]

Of the British 15" gun ships?

As they came out of their major rebuilds in the late 30s/early 40s;

• QE
• Valiant
• Warspite
• Renown

From then on, Barham had access to them after a refit in mid-1940, then Malaya, Revenge, Royal Sovereign, Ramilies, and Resolution were all modified to be able to take them from late 1941 to mid-1943. Vanguard also had access to the 6crh shells when she was completed after the war.

Royal Oak, Hood, and Repulse were all sunk before getting access to the 6crh shells.

[dapper parcel]

Basically every 15" British BB, Monitors, and coastal batteries that wasn't sunk by 1941

[dapper parcel]

Actually, is there positive confirmation that the shells were indeed different (beyond the usual incremental improvement)?
I always suspicious of such difference in significant figures since one might suffer from rounding while the other doesn't

[ivory ridge]

[chilly osprey]

The older 135mm shells are usually reported as either 32.7 or 33 kg, these as 33.55 kg

Rounding errors would only really make sense for the older shells, since 33.55 kg should always round up rather than back down to 33 kg

[manic latch]

Also nice meme Undef

[dapper parcel]

it wasn't necessarily the rounding error itself, comparing two data with (obviously) different sigfig is
listing data with unnecessary sigfig is even more

[strong plank]

the last MoH recipient from ww2 just passed away today

damn

[manic latch]

Few ww2 veteran will remain till next decade

[fierce sparrow]

[delicate beacon]

wij in Engeland wel de kruiser Orion hebben kunnen kopen, maar
deze was alleen als opleidingsschip bruikbaar en niet als deel van
een strijdbare vloot. Een dergelijke kruiser moet men, naar mijn
smaak, niet kopen```
![Noteshiro](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/911039555904368650.webp?size=128 "Noteshiro")

[manic latch]

Kope

[delicate beacon]

kopen

[delicate beacon]

Still no info on Kruiser 1946

[spring briar]

hahahahah

[delicate beacon]

Chad

Elp, I've fallen and can't get up

[manic latch]

T-34 during tests in Aberdeen, USA

Kinda wish Americans tried to modify it by adding their own tech to see what happens

[tough quail]

they did, it's called a pershing

[manic latch]

Heavy tank

[cinder escarp]

The Americans had lots of things, both good and bad, to say of T-34

While there was obviously no consideration of production or adaptation of it, many systems were used as references for designing US systems (Wehraboos would be shocked to find the T-34's gunner primary sight was the best aberdeen ever tested and was the reference for improved Sherman optics that showed up on mid and late ones...) and APG even drew up their own vehicle inspired by it using Sherman parts.

[manic latch]

You know always good products came out when you combine Soviets and US

[cinder escarp]

This used sherman mechanical bits, including the D200 engine from the M4A6 experimental branch, and a slimmed down M6 HVSS suspension.

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

that's rad

[delicate beacon]

M34 or T4?

[cinder escarp]

And while I hate to use WoT, they have a very nice model

[tough quail]

🇺🇸 🤝

[spring briar]

WoT is
weirdly enough
a really good starting point to find weird ass tanks

[tough quail]

ancient mostly ww2 tank game that needs to sift through the most niche of shit to still add content

makes sense

[spring briar]

[cinder escarp]

This has actually been in the game a real long time

It's something you find in Hunnicutt

It's not like the Yoh designs that time forgot

(and it's a good thing they were forgot)

[tough quail]

whats it actually named in wot anyway

[cinder escarp]

"M4 Improved"

The designs never got a real name

[frigid karma]

yoh designs were in the mobile games for quite a few years now

[cinder escarp]

Yep

I remember when Chieftain dug them out of the archives hell

[spring briar]

I posted a gif while image banned and got warned again someone please shoot me
with an M4 improved

[frigid karma]

the mg or the main gun

[spring briar]

both

[somber knoll]

Question, which specific variant was the gold baguette Breguet Bre 810 based on? I know that it was a two-seat bomber model, but the airframe was kinda murky on the details.

prolly @spring briar may know...

[chilly osprey]

Br.810 itself is a variant of the Br.693

[somber knoll]

1450 hp with 8500 meter ceiling and 300 knots/500 km/h ish.

sounds like it was specifically built to counter the Stukas and fockes

[spring briar]

cfr. Phoenix_jz

[tender monolith]

one year this month for Blitz

or so. i started playing may of last year and they were added shortly after i started

[tough quail]

lmfao

[spiral cedar]

https://www.navalgazing.net/Completely-Correct-Battleship-Facts

[maiden citrus]

[exotic scarab]

i mean it is true they named new jeresy after the bunny girl

[frigid karma]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/660883414978789387/992017017068584960/azurlane-20220630-104637-0001-QhEoA6AS.webp

What plane is that

[spring briar]

Tomcat

[frigid karma]

no particular reason why i'm posting this rn, especially not as any form of potential retribution

[desert agate]

Cool haruna pic bro

[frigid karma]

yea

[desert agate]

Holy shit

Colourised

Unironically banger pic

Shame about what they did to her pagoda though

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/992191151761260614/Screenshot_20220630-171305.jpg

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/992192014575738910/Screenshot_20220630-171622.jpg

[spring briar]

Horizontal for the first 10 miles
You know, given the curvature of the earth, that can’t be very good

[frigid karma]

grug no believe in ballistics, grug point reticle at enemy and shoot

[maiden citrus]

how does one manage to get things so decisively wrong

[spring briar]

Anyways people like that should be banned from the internet

[rapid junco]

I was about to send some BS i saw today

But it was about a guy thinking our OPVs are underarmed

And then proceeded to suggest things like

Missile launcher (even mobile ones)
100 or 155mm cannon
Heat guided rockets

Well, he made a 10 line text
Ending with
"Hope i wasn't boring or anything. Roger out"

[spiral cedar]

And nuclear torpedoes too, just in case

[rapid junco]

It was his response to my response to him saying they should have an "Offensive weapons"
My response was that patrol vessels have a defensive role

He started this response saying it was the "Coastal patrol ships function to defend"
And then he listed all his suggestions

[junior trench]

the sight was the clearest

it was not the best

the reticule is absolutely garbage

and of course it doesn't really help how good your gunner sight is if you can't acquire anything with it

[exotic scarab]

Yet they still don't have Hungarian or Romanian tanks

Come in gajin you added China who's early tree is literally tanks from other nations

[unborn wyvern]

Somebody needs to make the "inoperable" tumor wojak but it's quora

[tender monolith]

fucking wehrbs

[desert agate]

Negative bitches

[zealous vine]

With how effective the Japanese were at torching their sekret docs, would it be possible for a whole ship design to be entirely erased
(not even Circle 6 Type A CA amounts of redacted, just nothing).

And were there actual plans to build a Japanese Deutschland (I.e. Chichibu Cruiser)

[eternal veldt]

Kadekuru/Japanese Deutschland are faulty information.

Which is what prompted the US to construct the Alaskas in the first place and Japan actually responding with B-65s.

[frigid karma]

What have you done, now kancolle will make Japanese desuland

[eternal veldt]

As for Japanese documents, yes. Most of Yamato's documents are torched, and A-150 remains shrouded in mystery.

Shinano's original documents were also torched.

[zealous vine]

Oh lol

[zealous vine]

[eternal veldt]

The guiding light forward is by a person called Shizuo Fukui

Who apparently had over 3000 classified documents (!) hidden in his attic when he died in 1993.

If you want a comprehensive view of the IJN, that man's basically the massive supplier of most information on the Japanese side.

[zealous vine]

Ntk

[eternal veldt]

Also, top kek, cruising at 30 knots in rough seas

How to blow a turbine and damage your bow 101

[eternal veldt]

Also, forgot the British and US side.

Edinburgh design K XVIII, the quad x 4 design, was destroyed accidentally by the national archives sometime in 1988

The only surviving drawing is now a drawing made by Alan Raven prior to its destruction

on the US side, Spring Style Books 2 was either accidentally lost/burnt, or buried so deep in an archive that nobody found it

[maiden citrus]

[eternal veldt]

@delicate beacon apparently ate it.

Also relevant, Spring Styles Book 4 was recently scanned.

[maiden citrus]

pog

[eternal veldt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/978334409927323698/978336734108590120/DSC_0093.JPG

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/978334409927323698/978335179133304853/DSC_0011.JPG

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/978334409927323698/978335263883415572/DSC_0022.JPG

[maiden citrus]

[eternal veldt]

Theres more. Will check once I have breakfast.

[tough quail]

werent tbe b-65s already going, just actually unknown to the usn

and the response was the consideration to upgun them to 14"

[eternal veldt]

No. It was in response to the Carl Vinson act.

[tough quail]

oic

[eternal veldt]

In which the Essexs and Alaskas were also announced.

The 14" upgunning appeared later around 1942 IIRC

Before the whole project got canned after the Midway supershitshow

[desert agate]

14in sex

Big sex

Lewd

[spiral cedar]

No ALO while drunk

Shoo

[desert agate]

But I wannnaaaa

[maiden citrus]

come on hit let's get you to bed

[eternal veldt]

Someone put a speech bubble over Haruna's 1920 turret explosion

[desert agate]

Wow me

Hang on I had a thing to say

Too lewd for this place

So

Cannot

[eternal veldt]

[desert agate]

1984

Gun

K sleepy time

[spiral cedar]

Gun

[frigid karma]

Tea and Jaba are drunk Hit’s mom and dad when he’s on ALO

[desert agate]

I'm in fact the leader

[frigid karma]

Tea to censor hit’s comments and Jaba to drag him away

[eternal veldt]

Such oppression

@tough quail

[south forge]

Where does a 225-year-old working warship get its parts? At the Navy forest, of course - National Geographic

https://apple.news/AQHWznksoQ2W7-qNUQL_Q0g

[maiden citrus]

[eternal veldt]

There we go, perfect for hit

@desert agate

[frigid karma]

Make it a gif so I can save it

[eternal veldt]

Its already a gif

[frigid karma]

Oh, sorry

Mobile lied to me

[south forge]

What panzers saw action in the invasion of Greece? Also, what submachine gun would the British have during the invasion of Greece too?

[stable ermine]

So, is this true or completely false?

[maiden citrus]

very false

[eternal veldt]

TL;DR: No.

Slightly longer answer:

1. Yamato or Iowa would almost be never without escort, even Bismarck was escorted by Prinz Eugen until ordered to detach to complete the mission of commerce raiding (which failed miserably). So the premise here is already a massive red flag.

2. You can cruise at maximum speed in rough seas if the situation calls for it, just that it stresses the hull and would likely damage machinery due to sea conditions. This is not something unique to Bismarck. I don't even understand the logic behind being unable to shoot at maximum speed, given this falls under the gunnery director/plotting suite, and irrelevant to the hull. Both Iowa and Yamato were perfectly capable of engaging targets at maximum speed. If anything, Bismarck is a poor gunnery platform due to excessive stability of the ship, made due to the high metacentric height of the ship. The argument that only Bismarck could turn on a dime is just blatantly false, given that the Iowa class had double rudders and enjoyed an excellent turning radius (to the point that escorting destroyer captains were advised to be cautious), while the Yamato was beamy enough to facilitate such turns.

3. Yamato and Iowa being escorted to shore bombardment is just very no. Iowa was designed from the keel up as a "fast" battleship for carrier escort (not against aircraft, but against the Kongous or other sort of high speed threats), and Yamato was often cited as the crux of the "Kantai Kessen" doctrine, the Japanese dream of using battleships to annihilate the already weakened/fatigued enemy fleet. To argue that they're relegated to shore bombardment duty is to peer at the role of battleships through the small window of Saipan/Okinawa/Iwo Jima, etc., which is not even remotely close to a holistic view of what battleships performed throughout WWII.

4. Radar going offline: Amusingly, Bismarck was the one that suffered radar issues after engaging Suffolk/Norfolk during her voyage through the Denmark Strait. Granted, New Jersey, Massachusetts both also had their gunnery radar also taken off line due to gun shock, but radar in general is finnicky equipment and doesn't fare well against shockwaves, so, again, irrelevant.

5. Accurate gunnery of Bismarck and fast reload - blatantly false. If anything, recent research has found that Bismarck's gunnery officer intentionally increased the dispersion of the shots for better hits - "Spray and Pray", if you will.

6. "Bismarck could destroy the damage control centres of Yamato and Iowa, Iowa could not hit Yamato at a distance of 24 miles, even with the radar, Iowa would run out of ammo, Iowa would need to close within 10 miles to do any damage" are just statements dreamed up by a person that either has a serious lack of understanding on naval gunnery, or utterly demented. You'd need to back this up with ballistics calculations or other form of research.

[zealous vine]

👌

[spring briar]

TIL the 203 mm guns of Tourville; from front to back were called: Le Sceptre; Le Sans Pareil; La Syrène; Le Soleil Royal.
And for Duquesne: Régina; Soleil; Le Saint Esprit; Le Petit Saint André.

[eternal veldt]

Should have put plaques on them like the Italians.

[spring briar]

they did

[eternal veldt]

On the front?

I know (one of) Strasbourg's 130mm DPs have "Reichhoffen" on them.

Ah, okay. Thanks Riche.

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

[delicate beacon]

MN named every turret

If it'd be up to Richie every shell would be named too.

[spring briar]

of course

[spring briar]

add sentimental value

more likely to do crits

[delicate beacon]

I bet the shell that killed the dogkiller Hood had a name given by the loader.

[spring briar]

PETA

obviously

[hushed saffron]

Nah bruv, it was obviously some overly contrived name like Schell 43879070-90 E 50 C 380 -500

[alpine onyx]

Only works if the loader also gives a farewell kiss to the shell before ramming it

[eternal veldt]

French kiss the shell 😳

[spring briar]

german gunners already blew their own guns

what more do you want

[spring briar]

bad idea on "K" type shells

[eternal veldt]

K type as in ones loaded with K Dispositif or?

[spring briar]

yes

contact detonator and all

[alpine onyx]

Re 5), wasn't that more a case of the AO deciding to go rapid fire before reaching an accurate firing solution because he hated the odds he was facing and wanted take the chance of faster hits? Tho in any case German gunnery with their ladder firing is a sort of artificially increasing vertical dispersion for more accurate follow up salvos, sacrificing the ability to maybe land a full salvo straddle with the first broadside.

[spiral cedar]

Pretty much, tho I believe only the first couple salvos were actually ladders, and the rest were just typical half-salvos

[eternal veldt]

I must have misunderstood then.

[alpine onyx]

Yeah you'd only fire a few ladders until you get your range in, after that you can drop that and fire all at the same range

But it does count as going for more dispersion, just that it is calculated dispersion for a purpose

[dapper parcel]

In any case, concern about naval guns being too accurate for their own good is true. Since it will put so much weight on rangefinding (and rangekeeping) being at least ship-sized accurate.

[spiral cedar]

Radar knockouts are common when you first try installing them on ships, but given the time and effort they can be made fairly reliable. In Bismarck’s case it seems to be that the Kriegsmarine probably just never tried a full-salvo firing of 38cm guns during workups for Bismarck

[alpine onyx]

Pretty much

[spiral cedar]

As an example, both the British and Germans concluded after Jutland that the other side would’ve scored more hits with looser salvo patterns

[alpine onyx]

They used sub caliber guns a lot, because barrels and ammunition are expensive

I think 23cm guns for the Bismarcks

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/507631071807012866/940193097067954216/IMG_2540.png

[alpine onyx]

I recall Iowa also having issues when she started firing on Katori, at least something along those lines in her engagement report

[spiral cedar]

Shockproofing was not merely a matter of the radar set itself, but could also be a function of the specific installation on the ship

e.g. New Orleans had her forward radar remain operational despite losing her bow to a magazine detonation

[alpine onyx]

Though what I'd be interested in is how North Carolina's radar handled those early service vibrations

[haughty osprey]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_topics/Battleships_of_Germany
Damn, the Ugly Sisters get no love from Wikipedia

[spiral cedar]

Which BuShips attributed to her crew being particularly good at shockproofing

[alpine onyx]

What am I looking at there?

[spring briar]

the scharns don't have a star

[spiral cedar]

Not featured articles

[alpine onyx]

Sad

[spring briar]

I love the USN mark 20 radar

"FU"

[alpine onyx]

You need a fumo

[eternal veldt]

Add a funkgerät while you're at it

[spring briar]

I prefer saying FunkMessOrtungsGerät

[maiden citrus]

one could say, it was simply a difference in skill

[spring briar]

When the dramatic irruption of German armies in Paris in June 1940 interrupted these promising developments, CSF managed to transfer just in time its magnetron achievements to its English partner GEC. But it is less known that, over the next two years, it also carried on with a clandestine development of its naval centimetric prototype. At the time, no equivalent was found in the Allied Navies, and it could be seen in the global radar story as the first centimetric gun guidance radar. All ended in November 1942 when Hitler gave his troops the order to capture the French fleet in the so-called “Free Zone” at Toulon. The CSF test model was destroyed before their arrival, together with the other operational radars that the French Navy had developed at this time. This was the end of French radar researches in the war period.

[spring briar]

no equivalent was found in the Allied Navies

bonjour

[dapper parcel]

hmm, when was Mk13 get into service?

Tho arguably Mk.8 was already centimetric

[spring briar]

what year?

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/507631071807012866/895109159006113832/image0.png

[spring briar]

what's the spotting ranges for these numbers?

[spiral cedar]

Which numbers

[spring briar]

at what range was the Mk8 able to spot ships

[maiden citrus]

the germans will be even more surprised than the british were when the us tells them 'but we already have that'

hm phoenix had a nifty chart of them

[eternal veldt]

Mark 13 is around late 1945 IIRC

[dapper parcel]

Mk8 and Mk13 was fire control, not search

[spring briar]

who are you answering, ard?

[dapper parcel]

why would anyone want centimetric radar for search anyway?

[dapper parcel]

I mean, asking ship spotting range would be weird since FCR was mainly graded for splash spotting

[spring briar]

I'm asking at what ranges the radar would operate

[spiral cedar]

I’ve not found anything to this effect. Iowa’s radar spots were good enough throughout the Katori action to produce a table of spots that I have, and they likewise produced a similar table (with accompanying MPI errors measured by both radar and air spot) shooting at Nowaki shortly thereafter

[spring briar]

40k yards on a bb sized target

alright

[dapper parcel]

Radar range would most likely artificially limited by PRF, tho on USN radar it 's mostly 2 settings of around 20k yards and 40k yards

[dapper parcel]

i.e. long range but slow repetition, or short range but fast repetition

[alpine onyx]

I'll dig up the action report again, I recalk it being an utter pita to look through tho so expect it to take some time

[spring briar]

Trials in Saint-Mandrier from 10th to 25th August 1942
gave satisfactory results: the battle-cruisers Dupleix and
Algérie were tracked from a distance 16 to 25 km, torpedoboats from 10 to 18 km. Their accuracy range of ±25 m was
said to be better than the geodesic measurements which were
used in control trials.

battle-cruisers dupleix and algérie

gotta love the honesty here

[maiden citrus]

algerie the battlecruiser

[spring briar]

In May 1942, the entire system was settled in a Command and
Control shelter, rotatable in elevation and azimuth at the
“battery 340”, still in service in the field test facility of the
Navy at Saint-Mandrier [26]. At the time this device had no
equivalent in the British or American Navies, it may be
historically considered as the first gun guidance centimetric
radar. 

At the time this device had no
equivalent in the British or American Navies

can someone fact check?

[maiden citrus]

that they knew of*

[spring briar]

this is written with hindsight maka dear

just wonder if he missed some early Mk8 trial

Only some surviving ships, escaping from Algiers or
Dakar, succeeded in sailing to the USA. When the Richelieu
was making a prolonged stay for repairs in the New York
Arsenal in May 1943, the American engineers were very
surprised to discover a totally French-designed radar of which
they had never suspected the existence ! It was a SADIR radar
built in 1939, rescued from Bizerte in 1940, and installed onboard in Dakar in 1941 by the Vichy’s Navy technicians. 

lol

🥖

ayo where'd everyone go

[maiden citrus]

I am cooking

[spring briar]

hotdog?

[maiden citrus]

fry

[spring briar]

nice

[maiden citrus]

I am home from work so preparing a meal

[spring briar]

bon appétit

[dapper parcel]

That's most likely true, at least for USN since their early development was mostly L-band

[spring briar]

well it's something to be excited about considering all research ceased in 1943-1944 for
reasons we are all familiar with

and it fits in with French RPC and range doctrine post ww1

[desert agate]

Me after a night on the town

[spring briar]

hi spon

[desert agate]

Saa dude

[maiden citrus]

I am not too versed in the lingo of all the radars anyway

[spring briar]

it's best to first understand the physics behind it

and the methods

and then get into each radar

and why which one is better

otherwise it's just a loose set of numbers

just good to know that the allies were once again at the forefront of development in that field

dunno about german radar development

would have to ask sirene

[desert agate]

The Germans had good radar

Afaik wasn't on par with the allies

But they developed radar fire control and shit

[spring briar]

yeah ik
I just don't know the dates

I'd say '43 for fc

maybe they could add smth to the dye to beter reflect radar to detect the shell splashes more clearly

[alpine onyx]

@spiral cedar semi-correcting myself, it does not say that the failures were due to gun blast, but two of Iowa's radars did experience failures causing a 10 minute off-time each

[delicate beacon]

Richie

[spring briar]

these vacuum tubes are not bound by your meager human means

[delicate beacon]

How do I tell boy shells from girls?

[spring briar]

boy shells have tracer compound

[delicate beacon]

[desert agate]

Gender reveal naval bombardment

[dapper parcel]

SG was probably at navigational role at that point, I doubt it disrupt the shelling itself

[alpine onyx]

There was no disruption of gunnery noted, my point was more towards Iowa also having radar issues when engaging Katori which was somewhat correct

[south forge]

Were contact detonators that sensitive? Naval guns can just be thought of as artillery right? The British created a new artillery shell with an updated contact detonator after the Battle of the Somme because shells sank into the mud before detonating and so did not cut the German barbed wire. The only difference between artillery and mortars is that mortars could be fired from the relative safety of a trench and mortar shells are thrown down the mortar.

[spring briar]

ofc they weren't

we were making shell x human fanfic

the contact detonator was made to detonate when hitting water at speed

[eternal veldt]

hit the fuse with a hammer

[dapper parcel]

Artillery fuze would also incorporate inertial safety anyway

Or at least you damn hope they do so

so yeah, no, not even hammer

[spring briar]

water at ~400 m/s will do the trick

[south forge]

Surprising the United States of America-an Allied country-repaired the Vichy Navy’s Richelieu.

[spring briar]

she wasn't by that point

[eternal veldt]

@delicate beacon

Looks like the modelling world finally realized DZP exists

[delicate beacon]

Waifu

That's not DZP

Okay she was called DZP

but not comissioned as DZP

[eternal veldt]

So De Ruyter?

[delicate beacon]

C801 is De Ruyter

[ivory ridge]

Bote

[alpine onyx]

[delicate beacon]

Very cute

[spring briar]

my dad used my steel brush for shells on the barbecue

now my shell is all greasy

[tender monolith]

send him to the gulag

[fierce sparrow]

[manic latch]

I agree

[spiral cedar]

Got a link to the full thing?

[alpine onyx]

Jawohl

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/78322794

page 14

[spiral cedar]

Kewl

[manic latch]

https://eurasiantimes.com/gripens-challenging-f-35s-sweden-offers-its-saab-fighter-jets-to-czech-republic/?amp

oh no no

[spring briar]

ok

I'll have your entire stock

[fierce sparrow]

wait wut?!?

[manic latch]

They likely know Gripen will always lose to F35 alternative deals

[dapper parcel]

SAAB sales pitch is really something else

[delicate beacon]

Can always just bribe their government.

[alpine onyx]

reads Operation Torch stuff

[delicate beacon]

Richie was sunk

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

different area

this is from Texas shelling ground stuff, not the action vs Jean

I got what I came for

it's time to leave

[spring briar]

Texas vs JB

oh boy

goodbye Texas my dear

[chilly osprey]

points and laughs at +15° elevation limit

[ivory ridge]

Angle I've never seen

[alpine onyx]

Time to flood the ballast tanks!

[ivory ridge]

So cute

[spring briar]

texas' was never upgraded to 30°?

[alpine onyx]

Because did you know that Texas flooded her outer ballast tanks to increase elevation

[spring briar]

oh god they didn't

Texas cosplaying as Bretagne in WW1

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, no, NY and Texas never got such upgrades

[spring briar]

F

feels bad man

[chilly osprey]

They were never able to fire past 21,000 meters or so

[spring briar]

Bretagne got up to 23700 meters with her 23° upgrade in the 20's

and Lorraine I dunno

[alpine onyx]

https://www.quora.com/In-a-one-on-one-battle-between-the-battleships-USS-Texas-and-Yamato-which-would-be-most-likely-to-win-All-that-stands-between-the-west-coast-and-Yamato-is-the-Texas-and-both-vessels-are-in-their-1944-design

Relevant quora posting

Texas would beat Yamato in a duel

[spring briar]

please spare me

[chilly osprey]

Lorraine iirc should have been 18,000 meters on the one turret with upgraded elevation, though that turret only got installed late in WWI as I recall

[tough quail]

oh shit we finally found makas quora account

[chilly osprey]

Though, with the Mle 1912-21 APC I believe the +23° elevation was sufficient for 26,600 meters

Also;
lol

[spring briar]

yeah

and the mle.1924 used in the coastal batteries with 47.5° elevation had a max range of 35430 meters

[chilly osprey]

yep

[spring briar]

actually, 23700 meters would be a better approximation

the 26600 meters is with the Mle.1924 shell and we dunno if that was used on the BB's

[chilly osprey]

Oh, interesting. I thought 23,700 meters was with the original Mle 1912?

[spring briar]

yes

at 23°

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, before the ballistic cap was added, no?

[spring briar]

with the small ballistic cap

not the long one of the Mle.1924

[chilly osprey]

Ohhhh. Ok

Navweaps done goofed hard then

[spring briar]

yes

wait you meant the og mle 1912

The Mle.1912-21 had 23700 m range at 23° elevation

but only the Mle.1924 had 26600 m at 23°

so navweaps goofed up there

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, the navweaps page was throwing me off hard

Just so I can use as a future reference, what's your source for the correct figures?

[spring briar]

jordan's book

and a book on the 340mm coast batteries

[chilly osprey]

👍

I mean, hey, at least you get more data on the 340mm than I can get for the 305/46 and 381/40

[spring briar]

how come

[chilly osprey]

I don't even have a clear picture of how many kinds of shells and the exact maximum range of the 305/46

lots of conflicting data

Which may just be multiple shell types over time

[spring briar]

I can help you with that

[chilly osprey]

I don't suppose on the French end there are any records of Italian naval guns of the WWI era?

[spring briar]

I'd have to look for it

[edgy linden]

@manic latch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6EvXwX9zVw&ab_channel=Drachinifel

for the love of god, just watch this

[manic latch]

Ah Drach

The good ol British

Check his Lion video

You see why I call him biased

Also yeah. Don't really listen to him for Italian ships

His British side shows most there

[edgy linden]

So, if a russia made the video, it would be "unbiased"?

[manic latch]

No. If an Italian made it

[edgy linden]

makes 0 sense but okay

[manic latch]

National bias always there Salem

Like would an American explain Abrams with no bias or A Japanese

American one gets more chance to have bias because of national identity

[alpine onyx]

Drach being biased is nothing new

[manic latch]

Well he is British. So there is high chance he dislikes Soviets and Italians for being enemies once

Thus it shows in his videos

[edgy linden]

but the thing is, that even if the soviets completed the ships, they would continue to run into problems
just like admiral kuznetsov
i could see it it panning out like that

[tough quail]

never assume malice when incompetence is a probable answer

drach just isnt as smart as he thinks he is

[alpine onyx]

Not sure if it's national bias, but there are weird tendencies of his to pick on things for one nation while showing total leniency for others

At least national bias in the sense you describe it

[cinder escarp]

He does have some national bias that creeps in from time to time. It is particularly glaring with his shitting on the USN's superheavy projectiles for being slow... despite being faster than any UK naval projectile bar Nelsol's failed shells.

[manic latch]

Timing of Kuznetsov is horrible. You will realise most of her problems appear after the collapse of Union. When you loss that budget you Need for her

If you give Iowa to Brazil in 1940s. You can bet Iowas would break down alot

[edgy linden]

even pre collapse, they had problems with even building a carrier or developing a fleet air arm

[cinder escarp]

He'll come out and bash the superheavy shells for being slow, fat pigs - while discussing the UK's leading edge shell designs and such.

[tough quail]

tfw infrastructure goes goodbye

[cinder escarp]

It's very blatantly butthurt about the superheavy shells being over supported, which to a degree they are, but he also can't make a solid argument as to why they are bad either.

[edgy linden]

the argument between me and kremlin can be broken down into this
"But muh russia stronk"
"Noooo Russia not stronk"

[manic latch]

You can't really compare Soviet Union with Russia. Since one had %50 larger economy and millions of more people

[edgy linden]

when I say russia

i mean all verisons

[manic latch]

Tsar Empire

[tough quail]

nuance is for witches and the impotent

[alpine onyx]

meanwhile British 356mm shells bending into a 🍌 upon hitting thick armor

[manic latch]

That's the main problem. Current Russia can't handle Kuznetsov's maintenance

Older Russia. Which is Soviet. Could have

And they did till the collapse

Was building her sister already

And Nuclear Ulyanovsk

And guess what happened to Sister

China got the money you see

So she is comfy

[cinder escarp]

Also Drach treats anything Italian or French undeservedly horribly

[manic latch]

British moment

[alpine onyx]

He does show a lot more leniency towards France to towards Italy tho

[edgy linden]

could the soviets could have? like in the 1970's maybe, but 1980's? hell no

agfan war moment

and space race

[manic latch]

They still had second highest military budget of world by that time

[edgy linden]

resources in the soviet union were super stretched thin when the space race and arms races was in full swing in the 60's

[edgy linden]

yeah, but their net GDP per year was not making up for it

that's why they collapsed

[manic latch]

Yes. Too much gone to military

[edgy linden]

and space tech

[manic latch]

[edgy linden]

the soviets also had to deal with more autonomous zones

but also mainly because of the close-border policy

because with china now, people from the west can go study and live there, even have families

but during the era of the soviet union, that was not possible, even in the 80's

[ivory ridge]

https://twitter.com/ItalianAirForce/status/1542758535586619393

Aeronautica Militare (@ItalianAirForce)

Quale modo migliore di iniziare il mese di luglio se non ammirando questa foto spettacolare di due #F35A in volo?

#Calendario2022 #Luglio #AeronauticaMilitare #latuasquadrachevola @thef35

Likes

167

Twitter · Jul 1, 2022, 6:34 AM

plons

[tough quail]

oh thank god something else to talk about

[ivory ridge]

yes, like the fact i keep forgetting that the F-35 can actually mount stuff externally if needed

[tough quail]

its bizarre to see

[ivory ridge]

is this what they call beast mode

[manic latch]

Yes. You fuck stealth if you do it

So externally only useful for no radar enemies

[chilly osprey]

Erm, not really

[manic latch]

[chilly osprey]

Stealth isn't an on-off switch

[manic latch]

Doesn't radar pick up exterior missiles?

[ivory ridge]

bigger cross section but still better than a 4.5 gen probably

[chilly osprey]

It reduces the range at which you'll be detected, but that range is always going to be a function of what kind of radar systems you're dealing with

[cinder escarp]

Stealth is a spectrum and a mindset, not really a tech

[manic latch]

[chilly osprey]

And fundamentally a 'stealth' aircraft carrying external weapons is still vastly more difficult to detect at a given range than a 4th or 4.5 gen aircraft carrying external weapon loads (or probably carrying nothing, too).

[manic latch]

But I doubt we will ever see someone using beast mode F35

[ivory ridge]

https://twitter.com/CiroNappi6/status/1542924609653194754/photo/1
La Creatura

Ciro Nappi (@CiroNappi6)

Autocannon wave these weeks, i wonder if also come his time, for the KMW/IVECO Trakker with 155/52mm SPH.

Twitter · Jul 1, 2022, 5:34 PM

[chilly osprey]

Depends on the context. There are plenty of scenarios in which payload might be more important than reducing detectability, and it might also be a question of if the opposition's AA capacity in an area is really that much of a threat

[manic latch]

[chilly osprey]

I mean, say your SEAD/DEAD operation has neutralized the S-400 battery responsible for protecting whatever you want to hit in a given area.

Suddenly maximizing VLO performance is a lot less important.

[manic latch]

How do you confirm you take out all mobile radars or mobile anti air missiles? By using satellite or not getting locked anymore?

Always wondered it

[spring briar]

Drach's latest vid:
"The Caribbean in WW2 - Oil, Sugar and the French"

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

but hey he added Algérie to that top 5 list

[manic latch]

Richel when French content from AL:

Richel when French content from Drach:

[spring briar]

[delicate beacon]

Me when content from AL:

Me when content from Drach:

[spring briar]

me when Navweaps fucks up:

[fierce sparrow]

[manic latch]

Me finding the wiki guy who type Non cemented armor line for Soyuz

[spring briar]

I mean

[manic latch]

Iowa vs Vanguard
Long discussion

Iowa vs Soyuz
Bad armor lol

[spring briar]

[chilly osprey]

I mean, that is sort of the reason they decided to make it so thick

It was a way of compensating for the reduced performance of their armor at any given thickness versus foreign counterparts

[manic latch]

So let's say they went with 375mm non cemented. What would the effective armor thickness difference would be compared to cemented 375mm

More or less than 100mm?

[alpine onyx]

that'll depend on the shell you are throwing at it

[manic latch]

Call it German 380mm AP

[cinder escarp]

I am of the opinion that against high quality, hard capped shells, a good homongenous armor will outperform cemented.

Note how high quality hard capped shells are known to penetrate further into face-hardened/cemented armor than homogenous in live firing data.

[spring briar]

It will outperform hard capped AP shells at high obliquity hits yes

but at close to 90° impact it will likely be less effective than cemented

[cinder escarp]

The issue was investigated to a great deal with thousands and thousands of live fire tests and the like in AFV design, and the universal conclusion was to drop hardened armor. There was far more work done in AFV design than with naval, but physics won't change.

[spring briar]

I'm not too comfortable about using AFV armor logic on ships

the shells are just so much lighter

and the armor is comparatively similar in thickness

[cinder escarp]

I mean, the issue is that the physics reason it ended up doing so is quite simple: the hardened layer is worthless protection wise and only serves to shatter/erode the shell.

[spring briar]

and in tanks, oblique hits are much more likely to occur

[cinder escarp]

If the hardened layer can't shatter or erode the shell, it's pointless to have it.

[spring briar]

yes

but atleast shattering it in ship terms will render it somewhat inert

as where in a tank the shrapnell will kill crew

[cinder escarp]

Yeah, but I don't think high quality hard capped shells are getting eroded or shattered. In which case your BB is wasting LoS thickness with the hardened layer.

[chilly osprey]

Really is going to depend on the specific qualities of the two plates.

And to be frank I don't know how much it will change based on shell size, though design probably would impact it. One of the only data points for naval shells where I have both cemented and homogenous penetration data is for the RM 203mm, which generally sees the shells penetrating ~9% greater against homogenous plates versus cemented.

[spring briar]

eg, the USN spent an enormous amount of money on simply trying to get their shells as shatter proof as possible
to make sure it would not be rendered inert

[manic latch]

%9 huh

[spring briar]

that's sort of what the Japanese did with Yamato
but is it worth it?

[alpine onyx]

Mr burning bird, you disappoint me, didn't I send you detailed tables of German homogenous vs cemented performance?

clearly need to add some more gasoline

[chilly osprey]

Average, yeah. I have only a limited number of data points and it varies from 8.5 to 9.5% for what I have

[chilly osprey]

I'm on my laptop right now and all the German files you sent me are on my PC

😦

[alpine onyx]

From the looks of them it's between 5 to 10% for the 283mm shell from Scharnhorst

tho I just looked at 30+° impacts there

[spring briar]

Virgin homogeneous vs chad cemented

vs compound

[manic latch]

Latest images of Shandong carrier CV-17. There are two new J-15D electronic attack jet models on the deck. Fujian carrier CV-18 will also be equipped it in future.

[delicate beacon]

vs decap layer

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684721152739770371/992547326214275102/FF.png

[ivory ridge]

man

https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1542956652311314433

Nicholas Drummond (@nicholadrummond)

This Welt article suggests that the trilateral FCAS future combat air system being jointly developed by France, Germany and Spain may not go ahead. If it does fall apart, it will be interesting to see what each nation does instead. #TempestFugit

Twitter · Jul 1, 2022, 7:41 PM

never would've seen this coming /s

[spring briar]

Oh

Rafale 2.0

[manic latch]

European collab never works huh. Except Typhoon perhaps

Got a feel Tank collab will also die as well

[spring briar]

Sure

[manic latch]

This means alot Richel

PANG was going to use FCAS

If FCAS is dead. PANG will need a new next gen plane

[spring briar]

Cool

[manic latch]

Rich your lack of hype is torturing

[ivory ridge]

no, it's collaboration with france that arent ships

[spring briar]

Idc about modern military procurement krem

[manic latch]

QE class collab with British and France

Uhuh

[spring briar]

Only care about modern artillery shell

[manic latch]

French: Make it nuclear
British: No Diesel

France left

[ivory ridge]

barely a thing

[manic latch]

Exactly

[spring briar]

:ShinanoSleep:

[manic latch]

[somber knoll]

[ivory ridge]

https://i.ibb.co/wQ5X0qs/navi-in-costruzioni-8-K-FEDERICO-IACOPINO.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/QY8y5Vd/marina-militare-future-8-K-FEDERICO-IACOPINO.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/qsTGZJW/interessi-energetici-in-africa-8-K-FEDERICO-IACOPINO.jpg

[manic latch]

Why you guys need LPD

[ivory ridge]

why not

[manic latch]

Dunno can be spend for another class

[ivory ridge]

@chilly osprey do we know anything about the actual LPD(X)?

because the renders with the forward 127mm or the horizon layout with the sovraponte look mighty sus

127, 2 76mm sovraponte, 16 VLS

2 76mm Strales, 1 sovraponte, forward MLRS?

also 16 cells

[rapid junco]

@ivory ridge

[chilly osprey]

Long and short of it;

The plan is for three LPDs in the 15,000 to 20,000-ton range to replace the three 8,000-ton San Giorgio-class currently in service. They're going to have a discontinuous flight deck like the American San Antonio's, rather than the full deck seen on the San Giorgio-class.

The idea is that, aside from the usual LPD features (well deck, garage deck, aircraft hangar) the MMI want to have the ships able to operate tactical and micro UAVs/USVs/AUVs. Self-defense armament is supposed to be limited, with lower-caliber weapons than the 76mm, and the MMI apparently wants them to have the ability to launch loitering drones.

The ships should start fabrication probably in the near future, as current plans have the delivery dates for the ships running from 2028 to 2032 (presumably then 2028/2030/2032 for delivery years).

The render we've seen thus far for the design, which should not be taken as final, is this;

[ivory ridge]

so no 127mm

that looked dumb

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, no

That was wishful thinking on the part of some forumners

Who were rather dissappointed when RID mentioned that they weren't planning a 76mm on the class

[ivory ridge]

the 76mm version looked more realistic, especially with the sovraponte

so what are those things in the front

30mm?

no uh

25?

[chilly osprey]

These renders are unofficial (made by XTanguero), but are definitley closer to what the MMI has been looking at

Hard to tell but they kind of look like Marlin 30mm RWS

[ivory ridge]

This reminded me that the game Naval Art has the 127, the 76, the italian/german 30mm but not the Dardo 40mm

[chilly osprey]

sadface.png

[ivory ridge]

Can we bring back the fast forty

[chilly osprey]

And they even offer it with a funky angular turret now, too

[ivory ridge]

France pretty much just announced their own version

Lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QsGLiY03M0

[chilly osprey]

Fasty Forty vs RAPIDFire

Except one has a high rate of fire

And the other, is, uh, quite competitive

For 1945

Ok, sorry, I'm being too harsh here

But, Fast Forty is 300-450 rpm (per gun), and the RAPIDFire is 200 rpm

[ivory ridge]

tho iirc

the fast forty only ever came in single mount

i uh

[chilly osprey]

Fast Forty came in singles and twins

Just that typically the twin mount gets called DARDO

[ivory ridge]

[chilly osprey]

Which is, iirc, specifically the fire control system

[ivory ridge]

ok but the Dardo is also the

not fast forty version

weird fletcher lmfao

[chilly osprey]

DARDO can be either the 'regular' Compact or Fast Forty version, as I understand it

DARDO is more referring to the system as a whole

[ivory ridge]

yes but what im saying is that i dont think the twin version of the fast forty was ever actually made

[chilly osprey]

ah

Yeah honestly I'm not sure if it was

Looking at Friedman's World Naval Weapon Systems and it actually only notes specific Fasty Forty sales as being singles to Kuwait, but those figures are only good up to 2004/5

maybe someday he'll come out with a new version, it's been a literal >15 years at this point

[frigid karma]

AL fletcher

because you can mount whatever gun you want

[ivory ridge]

last news i find of them trying to sell it was 2013

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/year-2013-news/may-2013-navy-world-naval-forces-maritime-industry-technology-news/1053-oto-melara-introduced-a-new-version-of-its-fast-forty-naval-mount-during-idef-2013.html

[junior trench]

I'm pretty sure the spicy new AARGM-ER just outright outranges S-400's missiles which are capable of shooting at tactical aircraft

And even then, with a 300 km range, I doubt you'd even spot an F-35 carrying them externally

Before it's closed to a more comfortable launch range

Tbh, we're getting to the sort of range where slapping a pair of AARGM-ERs onto anything big that S-400 would be flinging it's longest range missiles at might be worth it

[chilly osprey]

TFW SEAD capability is hitting meme levels

[junior trench]

Considering AARGM-ER is just AARGM but new engine and funny shape for range

This also means it's an AShM

[spiral cedar]

https://archive.org/details/italiannavyinwor00ital/page/n145/mode/2up

@chilly osprey @ivory ridge Maybe of interest?

[spring briar]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/hmwarships/status/1543146103784210432

Heart of Oak ⚓️ (@HMWarships)

A view of Daring-class destroyer HMAS Duchess’ open bridge.
Source: https://t.co/qGKMhReXvq

Twitter · Jul 2, 2022, 8:14 AM

[desert agate]

I wonder why we didn't enclose her bridge in that 50s refit

Since the other Darings had their enclosed for NBC iirc

[hushed saffron]

Style points?

[desert agate]

Nah it's prolly something to do with her being a loan from the British for 4 years before we took on full ownership

[eternal veldt]

Probably for better air spotting/night battle...though that concern was around 30 years old at that point

Don't want to get run over by another carrier in the middle of night

[manic latch]

TCG Anadolu L400 bridge view

OwO what's this Undef?

[desert agate]

I FOUND THE FUNNY MANS HOUSE

[desert agate]

Nah we'd abandoned open bridges by this point

https://youtu.be/Zor_AYY5jB8

[ivory ridge]

[dapper parcel]

SitepItalia

Probably SATCOM

https://sitepitalia.it/products/uhf-milsatcom-system/

[manic latch]

Yeah looks like it

[desert agate]

What if we kissed outside William Bligh's House 😳

[manic latch]

map showing how many years regions were a part of the Roman Empire (east & west).

[spring briar]

Greece moment

SERBIA MOMENT

[desert agate]

Aight finished my IWM trip

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Very good museum, well laid out, well written, not apologist for the empire

I like

However

It's wayyy smaller than the AWM which means it has to kind of rush through things a lot which I found a little annoying

There's also fewer war prizes and exhibits

Overall the smaller size takes away from the stories the museum tries to tell and I think that's sad

[rapid junco]

Today Bahia celebrates her 199th year of independence
It's sounds strange at first, but we had to fight Portuguese loyalist troops in the Northeast and on the Cisplatine region (present day Uruguay)
2nd of July marks the end of the siege of Salvador, capital of Bahia.
After 4 months of siege, Inácio Luís Madeira de Melo, commander of the portuguese forces in Salvador, surrendered

[ivory ridge]

[frigid karma]

the highest level of sophisticated discussion one can expect from two named "explosivepancake9" and "nachocheeze60"

[ivory ridge]

Baby fremm

[spring briar]

Cute

[tough quail]

i love

[desert agate]

I can't ping maka for this on mobile for some reason

But here's a piece of Arizona

[spring briar]

Neat

[desert agate]

fucking mobile discord

[spring briar]

Got any shells?

[desert agate]

Riche pls ping her

I have shell pics if you do

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Fine

[spring briar]

Y u pout

[desert agate]

Jaba isn't maka

[spring briar]

Oh

Shit

Mb

[delicate beacon]

Ghost ping 👀

[spring briar]

@maiden citrus

[desert agate]

Here's a 15in shell

Lmfao

Is ok riche

[desert agate]

No sad fren

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Have 42cm German shell

[spring briar]

Seems like a K type dye ap shell

[spring briar]

Nice

[desert agate]

There was about a dozen scattered around the 15in guns

Which are officially the biggest guns I've seen in my life

Excepting myself of course

[spring briar]

I wish I could post photos

Reee