history

[manic latch]

It's called scheme H

[maiden citrus]

I mean to be fair they won't let me make CAs with more than 10'' belt in rtw2

[shrewd pecan]

you could probably make something extremely cursed by abusing the game in the rightways

I was thinking retrofitting exsting BBs would probably do the trick

[manic latch]

Dimensions: 262,1 (wl) 270,4 (oa) x 33 x 10,6m 
Displacement: 45.000tons (standard), 52.000tons (full load)
Armour: 208mm Deck, 310mm Belt
Engines: 212.000shp, 4 shafts
Speed: 60km/h (32,5knots)
Range: 27.800km at 28km/h (15.000nm at 15knots)
Armaments: 
4x4 203mm/55 RF Mark 16 Guns,
14x2 127mm/54 Mark 18 DP-AA Guns,
6x2 76mm/70 Mark 23 AA Guns

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/788652381759602718/957220805027168276/unknown.png

[maiden citrus]

I knew jaba would follow up on

'you can make something by abusing the game'

[manic latch]

I wonder why we never improved on technology for two turrets on top

[spiral cedar]

Atlanta

[shrewd pecan]

guns: yes

[manic latch]

Nah like imagine 2 turrets sharing single barbette

[spiral cedar]

Oh

Why would you

[manic latch]

Increased firepower

Without making ship longer

[shrewd pecan]

sounds like a nightmare tbh

ergo wise

especially if its a smaller caliber turret ontop

[strong plank]

the wedding cake turret

[spiral cedar]

Kearsarge?

[shrewd pecan]

I'm guessing it was a nightmare getting ammo to the top turret

[manic latch]

Don't forget Virginia

[manic latch]

Yeah makes sense

[maiden citrus]

it also had protection issues iirc

[shrewd pecan]

(Don't google image search STRV-103)

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

best

not biased at all

[shrewd pecan]

Virginian

[tough quail]

me

[shrewd pecan]

yeah fuck being a freeaboo, Scandaboo maxing it is

[spiral cedar]

Dreaming of California weather...

[frigid karma]

it's 38c here

it's hot

[spiral cedar]

Same here

[frigid karma]

and i live pretty close to the shore too

so

i can only imagine what it's like somewhere more east

[manic latch]

Qwer

You give me Florida vibes

Are you?

[frigid karma]

Kremlin

read

[manic latch]

Oi shore means lot of things

What if you are like at the top of Florida

Hmm

Tennessee?

[humble mulch]

[frigid karma]

Dreaming of California weather...
here

is

[manic latch]

Yeah you dream it

Means you don't have it

[frigid karma]

is tennessee even next to the sea

[manic latch]

Nope

But it's close to the shore

[frigid karma]

Kremlin i live in cal

[manic latch]

I know less than 10 Americans. And 2 of them lives in Cal

Damn

[spiral cedar]

Well, it's a big state

[frigid karma]

About 12% of the US population lives in California

[manic latch]

40 million people

It's a country if you cut it out

[spiral cedar]

World's...what, 4th largest economy?

[maiden citrus]

something like that

[shrewd pecan]

tbh

nothing really beats early Minnesota winter where there's snow but its not the miserable wastes of January

[spiral cedar]

What’s this about belt sloping on CL-55

[maiden citrus]

I suppose the angle is pretty minor either way

[fierce sparrow]

[tough quail]

da

i remember those in the 1920s

[ivory ridge]

So true

[dusty kraken]

I remember these being used to drop paratroopers on France during the D-Day landings

[spring briar]

Hoche after she got modernised

[maiden citrus]

little cutie

[spring briar]

her modernisation really helped

vs

[ivory ridge]

[eternal veldt]

Wow, I see I missed a lot of stuff, both hot and cold

And the opportunity to drop the funny crane battleship that is Kearsarge

[spring briar]

hi silverino

[eternal veldt]

Hi Richelino

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Also, time to drop the funny housing BB, nothing glamourous like Mikasa's aquarium, of course

[maiden citrus]

bm (battleship mansion)

[spring briar]

bruh

[ivory ridge]

Inter-war italy moment

[desert agate]

[spring briar]

my man thinks it's still the 1880's

[ivory ridge]

I must admit i didnt really like her at first compared to Cavour

But her weirdness is starting to grow on me

[eternal veldt]

island is eccentric, that's for sure

[ivory ridge]

Apartment building

[eternal veldt]

Fucking Italian copypastas, non-original plagiarisation of the Queen Annes' Mansions, smh

My turnitin index is ringing

[ivory ridge]

Bro

Indonesia

Coming in clutch with the

Superfiring 76

[spring briar]

[ivory ridge]

The 72 VLS on 6.5k tons tho sounds uh

Yeah

[zealous vine]

Been thinking about it..

Do navies actually engage the enemy with both planes, and ships at the same time?

[gilded girder]

El Based

We need more gun tbh

[junior trench]

Not by choice

[ivory ridge]

Next Italian DDG class will probably have a 127 and 3 76

Because why not

[gilded girder]

[zealous vine]

When do they actually do it then? What's the explanation to it?

[junior trench]

There's like

Three times I can think of where there was a chance for it to happen

[zealous vine]

Oh wait

[junior trench]

And two of those times it didn't happen

[alpine onyx]

Final battle of Bismarck had a few Swordfish trying to get a drop, but having to abort

[junior trench]

Glorious could conceivably have had planes in the air if the CO wasn't a fuck up

[zealous vine]

Ah

[junior trench]

But Samar is the only major example I can think of off the top of my head

And that was solely down to the unexpected nature of the engagement

[alpine onyx]

Maybe Casablanca, I would have to look up the timetable

[zealous vine]

Is this rarity of such event due to just how rare surface engagements are, and along with that, planes having to come along (which in itself, does discourages surface engagements anyway)

[junior trench]

Planes have such a huge range advantage

The only other possible case is like

[zealous vine]

Thanks. I'll read bout Samar more

[junior trench]

Hypothetical Yamato and co limping out of the first strikes

Into the 6 FBBs and all their escorts

With the second strike being given the go ahead

[zealous vine]

I remember that

[junior trench]

Even as that's happening

[eternal veldt]

I think the airstrikes on the cruisers during Empress Augusta Bay was after the surface action, if I recall

and yea, I think Casablanca kinda counts? The US was surprised that Jean Bart was still operational and still taking potshots at the cruisers, so they called in an airstrike from Ranger

[spring briar]

If Casablanca counts

then Mers El Kebir too

[eternal veldt]

So does First Guadalcanal, I guess?

Enterprise telling Hiei to sod off

[chilly osprey]

There are a number of actions in the Med that should count

At both Calabria and Cape Spartivento you have Swordfish trying to torpedo ships

Likewise the action off Gavdos (Vittorio Veneto vs cruisers phase) ended when Swordfish began trying to make attack runs.

And then at 2nd Sirte you have air attacks on the convoy while surface action is going on

And at Pantelleria, there was also bomber attacks during the action. Including friendly-fire.

[zealous vine]

Ah, I see

[zealous vine]

Just thought about it, occurences specifically like these don't happen more because it would either be usually overkill, or to preserve the surface fleet for later, or if they are busy engaging something else (though, it mostly ends with the planes doing all the job), right?

[eternal veldt]

On June 18, pilot Tim Macdonald (L) and sonar specialist Jeremie Morizet (R), onboard the submersible Limiting Factor, located a torpedo rack undeniably from the USS Samuel B Roberts (DE 413): "The Destroyer Escort that fought like a battleship" during the Battle off Samar, 1944.

[junior trench]

can we hang a plaque on it?

[eternal veldt]

Wait till they find the actual wreck first.

Should be in relative good shape given what we've seen of Johnston so far (I hope).

[spring briar]

was samuel b roberts hit by yammy?

[eternal veldt]

Not that I recall.

Johnston was hit by a 15cm shell possibly from Yamato as I recall.

[spring briar]

didn't yammy hit Johston with 3 18.1" shells amidships?

[eternal veldt]

Here we go again, have to take another look

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Here.

might have.

[spring briar]

hhmmm

I don't think it would've made that big of a difference

[junior trench]

honestly

I prefer that Yamato didn't

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684721152739770371/989535331604889680/IMG_0148.png

[junior trench]

because it makes IJN wankers mald

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

kongo malders win though

[junior trench]

yeah but

[alpine onyx]

can always be happy for Bongou

[desert agate]

[spring briar]

and making kongo seem like anything but a relic of the past upgraded to try and make it compete in ww2 is also sad

[alpine onyx]

[desert agate]

Bingo Bango bongo I'm so happy in the kongou

[junior trench]

Kongo gets affected by the "Scottish/Welsh/etc are British when convenient for the English" effect for the meme

which makes me laugh

[spring briar]

right I completely forgot that

"mikasa is the last british bb" people

[alpine onyx]

Kongou falls under the "Naval Command acknowledges they are useless, still they achieve more than the "valuable assets" and that's hilarious" tag

[chilly osprey]

Really depends on the situation. Generally speaking it's quite hard to coordinate aircraft and ships in the same space in WWII, as friendly fire incidents can easily happen (and did). It also depends on who you are/where you are. Ex, the Royal Navy rarely got a chance to mass its carriers until late in WWII, so many of the times they used carrier strikes they were pretty piecemeal. In contrast the USN and IJN tended to concentrate their carrier strike potential into much stronger or more continuous blows.

[alpine onyx]

and such

I appreciate them

[desert agate]

Kongous are good botes

Not biased

[chilly osprey]

'these are bad therefore they are expendable and we shall actually use them'

[eternal veldt]

I mean, if you want IJN wankers mald

[spring briar]

the complete opposite of Aufstragtaktik

[chilly osprey]

imagine not using your most modern battleships whenever the opportunity arises

[eternal veldt]

...just remember Hoel's torpedoes made Yamato execute a turn to turn away from the battlefield, and too late to turn back if I recall

[chilly osprey]

this post was made by the RM gang, totally sitting in port the entire war

[desert agate]

Still more valuable than every other Japanese capital unit excluding Yamato herself

[junior trench]

smh

[eternal veldt]

Actually, hit

may I give you something really interesting?

[desert agate]

Yiss

[junior trench]

we never got to have the timeline where Washington guts one of the Yammies off Guadalcanal and the beached wreck turns into a battle site between the USMC and the IJA + remaining crew

[eternal veldt]

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/books-plans/warshipbooks/Joseph_Ed_Low/HieiBookReview/Book Review_Hiei.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Kongô-Class-Battleship-Imperial-Japanese/dp/B09ZSQ535K/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?crid=MKR711VBJLZD&keywords=the+congo+class+battleships+of+the+imperial+japanese+navy&qid=1653780714&s=books&sprefix=the+kongo+class+battleships+of+the+imp&pldnSite=1

Only Kirishima and Hiei only, I think.

[desert agate]

👀

[spring briar]

what

[desert agate]

I'll dowoad it by 100% legitimate means later

[eternal veldt]

It's paperback only.

[desert agate]

[manic latch]

Holywood stuff

[chilly osprey]

I expect a fort drum repeat

[spring briar]

my headcanon where Duquesne underwater AP nukes Trento

[alpine onyx]

Looking through Mutsu's career, for a ship that was around for like half the Pacific war she did an awful lot of nothing

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/708138174853021797/958376002457833523/fumb-1.gif

[eternal veldt]

...Did Nagato do a lot, honestly?

[spring briar]

my undy summoning spell worked

[eternal veldt]

Minus Sho-Go 1

[spring briar]

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/273147912387559428/742599766416031864/image0-2.gif

[eternal veldt]

Well, and Climb Mount Niitaka

[alpine onyx]

Not sure tbh, but in Mutsu's case she might as well have blown up in 1941

and not much would change

[manic latch]

My headcannon where Soyuz bombards German forces in Leningrad
But 9 guns this time instead 1

[desert agate]

Headcanon where HMAS Sydney sinks Kormoran and then proceeds single handedly win the Pacific war

Sinking the entire IJN

[spring briar]

headcanon where the MN and RM are not forgotten

[eternal veldt]

tbh, the curious thing is that many people argue that the IJN should have deployed the BBs to Guadalcanal, i.e. Nagato/Yamato

[ivory ridge]

My headcanon where im happy

[eternal veldt]

The thing is, as I recall, the Kongous by that point are redesignated as "high speed battleships"

[spring briar]

8" belt of ww1 armor
8" belt of ww1 armor

[chilly osprey]

pushed forwards naval warplans from the 1930s Cavagnari had prepared for a Franco-Italian war against Germany

[eternal veldt]

and I'm not exactly sure if sending Fusou and Ise down there are going to solve issues

[chilly osprey]

if only we had the OG Zara design. Heavy cruiser with better belt armor than a battlecruiser XD

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Soviets: that's a heavy cruiser yes

[eternal veldt]

Actually, hit

let's tell these people the legendary Tojokistan lore, shall we

Mogami leads a revolt against the IJA, sails up to Sagami Bay and destroys every IJA transport

[spring briar]

that one timeline where britain supports the confederacy

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

There was also some wild shit involving seaplane bombers IIRC

but ahem, end result, Tojo ends up fleeing Japan and end up in some place where the water doesn't reach him

for Yamamoto has tainted it

[manic latch]

Lend Lease Iowa to Soviets timeline

[spring briar]

1917 revolution doesn't happen timeline

[alpine onyx]

as long as they lend lease a crew on top

might work

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-emotional-romantic-sentimental-feelings-gif-20272044

[manic latch]

Izmail sisters survive

[eternal veldt]

I'd be scared if they lend lease an Iowa

[spring briar]

the tsar gets overthrown but anastasia becomes tsarina

[eternal veldt]

Who knows if the turrets are going to be operable again

[spring briar]

and becomes the new catherine the great

[manic latch]

I am sure Iowa can handle cold unlike Bri'ish

[spring briar]

?

[alpine onyx]

Iowa sits in port all day, most of the crew went ashore to fight on the ground

[eternal veldt]

I don't know man, sounds more like ill-maintenance to me or than weather conditions

[spring briar]

^

[manic latch]

Should have sent her to Leningrad

[spring briar]

the timeline where the russians continue the assault on eastern prussia in ww1

leading to the end of the war in early 1916

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

I wonder

[eternal veldt]

no no no

Iowa becomes an ice cream factory

[manic latch]

If Russia win the Tsushima

How much design changes would happen to Japan

[spring briar]

wouldn't have mattered

[manic latch]

For warships

It wouldn't?

[spring briar]

the land war would've gone wrong anyways

[eternal veldt]

All the while, Iowa's crew figures a way to smuggle vodka on board

[manic latch]

[strong plank]

Please don’t

[chilly osprey]

imagine not being able to drink alcohol on your ships

[eternal veldt]

You can

[spring briar]

land of the free am I right

[eternal veldt]

"torpedo juice", as I posted elsewhere the other day

[strong plank]

I prefer my battleships not covered in human excrement

[eternal veldt]

cost: blindness, explosive diarrhea, extreme pain

[chilly osprey]

O.o

[spring briar]

methanol?

[eternal veldt]

Yeap

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

later added with Croton Oil

[manic latch]

Dunno man that statement always sound sus to me. Did Murmansk had such reports?

[eternal veldt]

to discourage people from extracting the alcohol from torpedo fuel

[desert agate]

Tojokistan
Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time

[strong plank]

Pretty sure that’s what Laffey drinks too

[chilly osprey]

Murmansk had to be fumigated before she could be scrapped

I don't recall off the top of my head if there were issues with excrement on her, but she was infested

[spring briar]

you all seem to know a whole lot about the hygienic conditions of soviet warships

curious

[eternal veldt]

But yea...honestly, given the amount of radar suites on board Iowa, that's a lot of maintenance needed

[manic latch]

Bath pervs

[strong plank]

British: aight here’s our battleship, please take good care of her
Russian crew:

https://tenor.com/view/shit-on-the-floor-time-to-get-schwifty-rick-and-morty-gif-10867806

[eternal veldt]

As for Iowa in game, as of B hull (since A hull got removed, sadge):
Top of conning tower: Mark 27 radar.
Tower mast: TDY-1 Jammer, ECM antennae.
Foremast: SK-2, SG.
Main mast: SG
Mark 37 directors: Mark 12.
Abaft first funnel: DF antenna.
Mark 38 main gun directors: Mark 13 (! - Only very late/post-war Iowas had them installed, otherwise should be Mark 8 for most of WWII service).
Yardarms on both fore and main mast: ABK-7 identification radar, TBS Antenna, not radar, but nonetheless there.

[chilly osprey]

I mean, if your hygiene is legendarily bad, word tends to get around...

[manic latch]

Survives longer than her sisters because of British scrap fetish

[eternal veldt]

What was it again

HMS Erin

[tough quail]

yeah that claim always seemed uh

[eternal veldt]

Turkish accomodation had the shitter right next to the mess hall

[tough quail]

bizarrely out there

[eternal veldt]

without walls, if I recall

[spring briar]

I've looked it up for Arkhanglesk
but never found a primary source on it

[tough quail]

you're correct silver

[eternal veldt]

Where did Vae got that from, horse?

[tough quail]

nothing builds trust like watching your bros take a fat shit while you eat lunch

[eternal veldt]

genuinely curious if there's a booklet of general plans available

[manic latch]

No like it doesn't make sense either. If ship always sits in port you would use port toilets right

Or a forest near the port at worst

[frank solar]

R.A. Burt's British Battleships 1905-1919

[spring briar]

hi vae

[eternal veldt]

Oh, I have that on hand. Thanks.

[frank solar]

hello

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Who is she

[tough quail]

the only sense i can make out of it is if it was just out of spite for it being british but even that just seems goofy

[spring briar]

anyways dunno about y'all but I don't want to take the shit in arkhangelsk quote as fact until I see primary sources on it
especially as this exchange happened in the cold war

[tough quail]

yeah

[manic latch]

Yeah it always felt like British shitting on Soviets

Like usual

[chilly osprey]

sigh naturally that's the one book of the series that scribd doesn't have

[spring briar]

and if it were true

I'd expect it to be a clogged toilet that was never repaired

[eternal veldt]

aaaaaaaaa

I hate it

I hate it

[manic latch]

That makes sense. But if ship barely moved you would use port toilets still

[spring briar]

Russian people are not by nature animals
even if their leaders treated them as such

idk

I'm just trying to empathise

[tough quail]

maybe patton wrote about it

since he was uh

incredibly fond of writing about jews shitting on the floor

over and over and over again

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

like there's genuinely like six claims about the jewish under his "care" shitting on the floor en masse

[chilly osprey]

cue US army hiring Nazi's to tell them about the way the Soviets fight and taking at face value all the racial bullshit of how the Russians were animal-like and close to nature

[manic latch]

Heredotos explaining why Indians cum in brown color instead white

[eternal veldt]

ngl, everytime I hear Patton now, I automatically associate it with the word Biscari immediately

thanks guys

[strong plank]

I’m looking for a source right now and finding uhh

A lot of pics of bears onboard

[tough quail]

usually before he goes on a weird tirade about how germans were "the one good race left in europe" and how he should instigate the holocaust 2: electric genocide

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

biscari has actual real world consequences

but it pales into the fucking deranged madness in his brain at the end of the war

[manic latch]

Yo what if it was Bear shit

[tough quail]

that would be fucking hilarious

[spring briar]

I hate to break it to you all but
considering we have gone from hunter gatherers to a technological society in less than 6000 years
and considering we were literally just bashing rocks together for over a million years before that
our brains really haven't come that far yet

[eternal veldt]

That's just even worse, letting the bear shit everywhere and not cleaning it up

[manic latch]

to spite British

[tough quail]

it's solidly less weird than just taking a dump on the ship yourself

[spring briar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/751633547911233677/978017366296379462/fleasexmicrofleasex_GE.gif

[strong plank]

For anyone interested, I located the source I had read many years ago. It was in a local library in an encyclopedia set called "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of 20th Century Weapons and Warfare". This was in the section for Arkhangelsk:

"As a bizarre sidelight on the Russian character, when she was returned in February 1949 it was found that every gun on board was still loaded, from 15-in down to 2-pdr pom-poms. In addition the mess decks were covered in human excrement."

[tough quail]

but hey guys

want the uh

the absolute worst part of patton's diaries again

just for a nice reminder

[eternal veldt]

Just a...suspicion

[tough quail]

..why would it be in the mess?

[chilly osprey]

I mean, I will say, if you're dealing with random teenage conscripts, I'd not be completely shocked.

Just go into a boy's bathroom in a US public school and, uh, yeah...

[eternal veldt]

Might one of the drain lines burst and it just left excrement in the mess?

[tough quail]

...

🤔

[spring briar]

the toilets are next to the mess

[tough quail]

that's...

surprisingly sensible

[manic latch]

[strong plank]

I served with an old 3 badged Royal Naval Able Seaman who was one of the working party when she was returned to the UK.
He said she was in such a state and so flithy inside that at the end of every working day the overalls they had been wearing were taken off them (and destroyed) and they were handed a new pair ready for the following day.

[eternal veldt]

Given how awfully maintained the ship is

It won't be surprising if something just burst and nobody gave a shit about it

pun unintended

[tough quail]

and then it gave the shit instead

[spring briar]

I wouldn't even be surprised if the young sailors left the excrement as a little gift for their western capitalist friends
if you get what I'm trying to convey here

[eternal veldt]

As in, poorly maintained as if it's some barracks/depot ship

[strong plank]

So yeah in summary, for the love of god don’t lend the soviets an Iowa

[manic latch]

what if toilets like explode and make all the storage flood the hall

[tough quail]

i mean the soviets would actually use an iowa

it's a little different for an obsolete battleship they're not actually really using

[eternal veldt]

Wasn't Arkhangelsk not used for fear of losing her?

[manic latch]

I mean they were fine with ganguts in danger

Why hide Ark

[chilly osprey]

I think Stalin might suffer an early heart attack from the stiffy he'd pop at the thought of getting an Iowa

[tough quail]

because shes leased iirc

the plan was to swap her with cesare

[eternal veldt]

Until the end of the war, the battleship never left the Kola Bay to carry out combat missions. Even to provide fire support for the offensive of Soviet troops in mid-October 1944 and disrupt the evacuation of German troops from Finnmark, although his mere appearance in the Varangerfjord would have thwarted all the plans of the Germans.

Apparently, Admiral Golovko was afraid of responsibility in case of loss of the ship. The only time the main caliber of the "Arkhangelsk" was fired with a blank volley on Victory Day.

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

they were placeholders for the italian war prizes

[manic latch]

Puts Iowa turrets on Soyuz

[eternal veldt]

Hang on for thirty seconds

[chilly osprey]

I mean, they had pretty limited uses for a battleship in the northern arctic by that late in the war, and this limited reasons to risk Ark

[eternal veldt]

Is that Joffre?

[spring briar]

yes

[eternal veldt]

oh, holy shit.

[spring briar]

amazing

[tough quail]

that do be joffre

[eternal veldt]

Given that the Iowas were in service late...1943

[spring briar]

I'm pretty sure she's Iris
but they somehow put vichya on her

[eternal veldt]

or even 1945 for Missouri, the conditions are about the same?

[tough quail]

just plow her into the baltic

that will be very fun on the coast

[manic latch]

Iowa in shallow waters

[tough quail]

those goofy german enclaves stuck on the baltic coast when a fucking iowa with a soviet ensign appears in the horizon

screams in german

[spring briar]

Iowa if anything happens to her hull

https://tenor.com/view/drowning-gif-5250486

[manic latch]

America fans explaining it was because Soviet flag that Iowa was suffered from such problem

[strong plank]

?

[tough quail]

im sorry western friends we thought it would be funny if we rammed a german transport ship with your modern battleship

[spring briar]

america if it were connected to europe:

[tough quail]

three different ones

[eternal veldt]

Kentucky has to get her bow cut off again, feelsbadman

[spring briar]

US ships and getting their bows stolen/cut off/blown off/lost

[tough quail]

unfortunately this time fifteen thousand civilians die

[eternal veldt]

I mean, Riche

[chilly osprey]

I mean, in the Pacific there was still plenty for an Iowa to do. Ex, see the ever-popular what if for TF.34.

Whereas, the Soviets having an R-class in the high north in 1944 where there's no German heavy ships left there to fight...

[eternal veldt]

didn't Indomptable's bow got ripped off for repairs?

[spring briar]

listen here

[strong plank]

She’s smiling

[eternal veldt]

and I'm fairly certain Bison's stern was stolen off by George Leygues, if I recall

Gun and all

[strong plank]

Fuck

[spring briar]

do you know why seemingly so many US ships got their bows fucked?

[strong plank]

Now I can’t unsee the pog face

[eternal veldt]

Want me to change that with canned coal?

[chilly osprey]

I believe it was actually her no.2 gun installation

[spring briar]

silver

get me a list of US cruisers sunk during the war

and how they got sunk

[eternal veldt]

I stand corrected

[spring briar]

armament reinforced

nice

[strong plank]

See that’s why I want Pittsburgh in the game

“Don’t worry it’ll iron out”

[eternal veldt]

Riche, I don't think getting bows sawed off is seemingly more common to the US, if you think that's the point I'm arguing on

[spring briar]

No, I'm wondering if it has to do with survivor's bias

[chilly osprey]

"Think it'll buff out?"

[eternal veldt]

I'm thinking exactly that

[spring briar]

because US cruisers TDS: ???

[eternal veldt]

Because a hit elsewhere likely would be nailing the machinery or otherwise ammunition magazines

And in that case you are fucked

[spring briar]

so the only place to get hit is indeed the bow

wow

we were thinking the same thing

crazy how that works

[strong plank]

Her bow, nicknamed "McKeesport" (a suburb of Pittsburgh), was later salvaged by the tugboat USS Munsee and brought into Guam. The 104-foot section of bow broke off owing to poor plate welds at the Bethlehem Shipbuilding Co. at the Fore River Shipyard, Quincy, Massachusetts. The typhoon damage also earned her the nickname "Longest Ship in the World" as thousands of miles separated the bow and stern.

[eternal veldt]

Javelin ate shit on both bow and stern

Suzutsuki ate shit both bow and stern

Kumano ate shit on the bow, still gasped for a good month and ate even more shit

[spring briar]

just didn't want to say that us cruisers sank if hit anywhere else since I know little of the USN

[eternal veldt]

Akizuki was bent

[strong plank]

“Ain’t no thing”

[manic latch]

Ye

[eternal veldt]

Well, the ones I can think of received multiple hits

Helena ate 3 torps, not going to salvage that

The three NOs received extensive bullying from Mikawa, with dangerous avgas blowing off to help

...and then there's Northampton

[manic latch]

Show the picture of Stalingrad getting tugged with no bow and stern again

[chilly osprey]

"..."

[tough quail]

turrets are optional

[spring briar]

Italy before Sicily got incorporated

[chilly osprey]

I think that joke works better with Veneto

[eternal veldt]

surprise, not on bow https://www.history.navy.mil/content/dam/nhhc/research/library/online-reading-room/ships/wardamagereportno41/wdrca26.jpg

Therefore, the conclusion is that getting your bow chopped off helps your ship live longer

[spring briar]

HMMMM

[eternal veldt]

Get rekt damage control experts 😎

[tough quail]

i want joffre now

[spring briar]

YES

and L'Indomptable

[chilly osprey]

Actually, curious. Does anyone have any photos of Molotov with her bow blown off?

[manic latch]

Will give it a look

[chilly osprey]

thanks

[manic latch]

Australia

[spring briar]

where's the damage?

[chilly osprey]

'you should see the other guy'

'I ate him'

[spring briar]

Queen Mary to Curacoa

[manic latch]

I think it was the stern instead

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, sorry, it was stern

I had a brain fart because of all the bow discussion

[eternal veldt]

doesn't seem too out of place.

[chilly osprey]

Which is hilarious because the Northampton image is what made me think of it

[spring briar]

shit

[chilly osprey]

...

Algérie is now a member of the Paolo Thaon di Revel-class OPVs

[spring briar]

oh no

[chilly osprey]

Ok bow that's just weird

[eternal veldt]

Honestly, to that ramming damage thing above

Melbourne's motto should be "To show you the power of Melbourne, I sawed this boat in half"

[chilly osprey]

XD

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Fucking hell, both Voyager and Frank E.Evans were clean half cuts

you can't make this up

hit, explain

[spring briar]

chaotic pictures

[manic latch]

Imagine losing only your bow not %30 of your whole front

[eternal veldt]

git gud. Have you sailed without a bridge?

and have it augmented with a couple bofors tubs?

[spring briar]

like

can't be worse than Liberté

[manic latch]

Reported for script hacking

[eternal veldt]

skill issue

[manic latch]

The fuck

[spring briar]

picric acid in the shells formed metal picrates

which blew up

[eternal veldt]

speaking of wrecks

phoenix is dead

[strong plank]

I love the group of officers just standing there like “the fuck?”

[chilly osprey]

Oh, Richy, you might find this useful.

Shells in a Greek museum (Chania). Suposed to be Averof's 9.2" and 7.5" shells.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/warships1discussionboards/italian-greek-projectiles-t46382.html

[spring briar]

OI

SHELLS

are they 234's or 305's?

nvm

I can read in the forum

[manic latch]

Bf.109 fighter of the 2nd group of the 51st fighter squadron of the Luftwaffe (II./JG51) during repairs at the Soltsy airfield.

[chilly osprey]

254mmm or 234mm and 190mm

There is some debate as to the caliber of the larger ones

[spring briar]

where would the greek get 254mm from tho

did averof have some provided when bought?

and then they switched to 9.2"?

I've gone to Crete so many times yet never seen this museum in chania

fuck

[manic latch]

The Italian torpedo boat MAS-528 sets sail from the shore on Lake Ladoga.

[spring briar]

isn't that near finland?

[eternal veldt]

Oh, look

Black Antifouling

[chilly osprey]

Some MAS were deployed up there, yeah

[spring briar]

man they even have models of the Hydras...

[chilly osprey]

Afaik it should just be 9.2" for the Greeks, which is why there's some confusion

[spring briar]

hmm

they have an Alaska model

[eternal veldt]

Awfully low draft there.

[spring briar]

shitty picture

aight who wants to got to Crete with me?

[manic latch]

Yup

Italy gave some MAS to Finnish forces

[spring briar]

...

Thank god we figured out how metallurgy worked

[manic latch]

The crew of the Finnish StuG III repairing their car on the outskirts of Vyborg

[spring briar]

and uh

what's with the bird

[manic latch]

Hawk. Mascot of the Finnish SPGS I think

[frigid karma]

neat

[manic latch]

Gangut under bombardment

[manic latch]

Really love Wargaming add this style of port

[rapid junco]

@spring briar
Turns out that São Paulo's nickname was "Obelix"

[manic latch]

The commander of the 12th division of Italian Navy torpedo boats, Captain D. Bianchini, Kriegsmarine officer Helmut Leissner and Luftwaffe Lieutenant Colonel Fritz Siebel on Lake Ladoga.

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/astérix-et-le-coup-du-menhir-asterix-and-the-big-fight-obelix-roman-dragging-gif-17294203

[manic latch]

God wish Soyuz dragged me like that

Leningrad in Leningrad

Broken bow of the battleship "October Revolution" after the attack of German aircraft. On September 21, 1941, as a result of an attack by 26 German aircraft, three air bombs hit the bow (20 sp. area) of a ship anchored in the Peterhof roadstead. High-explosive bombs (100 or 250 kg.) Penetrated the upper 37-mm deck

Italian battleship "Vittorio Veneto" firing in battle of Cape Spartivento

Damaged in the battle of Cape Matapan, the Italian battleship Vittorio Veneto is being put into dry dock at Taranto. On the battleship wooden containers lifted aboard in front of the dock entrance, which were used to keep the ship afloat.

@spring briar

[spring briar]

why

[tough quail]

baltic adventure edition

Ouch

[manic latch]

Italian battleship "Conte di Cavour" during the start of work on lifting the battleship from the bottom of Taranto.

[past laurel]

Time to watch someone lose their mind ranting at us and then exaggerate some things for comedic effect
https://youtu.be/CH8o9DIIXqI

[manic latch]

Plot twist, Lazerpig defends F35 because British got it

[frigid karma]

Lazerpig describes himself as a "recovering former teeaboo"

[spring briar]

people think the F35 is bad?

[frigid karma]

i don't think he defends F35 because the British have it

[frigid karma]

video topic is on reformers

[spring briar]

again?

[manic latch]

Indeed. He is recovering his old self

[frigid karma]

it's a source of endless funniness

Kremlin i cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or reverse-snorting your brain out your nose

[manic latch]

Ok here is a deal Qwert
If he makes a video shitting on a bad British vehicle. Than I will agree with you

[frigid karma]

he hasn't made a video shitting on a bad british vehicle, but he has made a video on black agnes of scotland

[manic latch]

Yeah a good improvement

Really want Churchill video from him. Don't know much about that tank

Will he defend or shit on it I wonder

[somber knoll]

Reformers

unpopular opinion: I was skeptical with the F-35 program at first because I thought "great, another Lockheed Martin money pit" (I may be a bit subjective on this because, a, I really love the F-22 Raptor, and b, I doubted a multi-role, one-aircraft-fits-all nature of the initial F-35 proposal because afaik earlier planes built for this purpose are basically became master-of-nones while the effective multi-roles I could think of were purpose-built aircrafts to the point that there used to be an old joke about it).

[spring briar]

I refuse to believe the F-22 is a real plane

[manic latch]

Navy: Cancels Attack Super Tomcat program because it's expensive, passes to cheaper F-18

F-35 program:

[frigid karma]

the f-22 is actually a homicidal bald eagle wearing a plane costume

[somber knoll]

Eh, as far as I know the F-35 is first and foremost an Air Force program.
looks at the vain budget of the F-22
It's not like they haven't done this before, but F-35 is by far the worst offender in terms of finance as well as delays.

[manic latch]

I don't like F35 because I don't get what it tries to replace

F-18? No there is a project for her replacement

F-22? No there is another project for her replacement

F-15? Maybe but F15EX is becoming a thing

A-10? Pfft

But maybe F-16?

[desert agate]

F-35 is an F-16 replacement

but its designed to do everything

[somber knoll]

Hence my first initial "Lockheed Martin money pit" impression

[desert agate]

F-35c is a classic hornet replacement

Super Hornet will be staying around a few more years especially once the A-10 goes

[shrewd pecan]

F-14 was at F-35 prices in the 1980s Kremlin]

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

almost as if planes are expensive

[shrewd pecan]

F-14D projected price in 1988 was 74 million dollars

[manic latch]

So why sacrifice her for F-18 for being cheaper. If you will go back to similar price plane later

[shrewd pecan]

she was more expensive than the F-35C once you adjust for inflation

[desert agate]

because the F-14 was a maintenance hog

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

which made actual operating costs utterly insane

[manic latch]

Is it truly harder than 35?

[desert agate]

and decreased ready rates

[past laurel]

Sounds like the Dreadnought Effect

https://youtu.be/ArzgWvrCuNc

[shrewd pecan]

o per plane she was just fucking expensive to buy along with being a maintenance whore of a plane

[desert agate]

1970s wing sweep equipment was not known for its reliability

[desert agate]

no, it isnt

[manic latch]

Death of Lazerpig

The video where he will call Tempest superior to F-22

[somber knoll]

hydraulics problems?@desert agate

[shrewd pecan]

lemme

go back into the NYTimes archives for F-14 pricing

[desert agate]

pretty much all the 70s swing wing aircraft have been retired by now, or are kept in service by poorer nations

[chilly osprey]

F-35C literally replaces the F/A-18C/Ds

I'm pretty sure we've covered this ground before

[desert agate]

the whole system was manufactured with inadequate materials which made them maintenance heavy

theres not a single aircraft of the period that didnt have this effect

[chilly osprey]

FA/-18E/F isn't getting replaced by the F-35C because it's a hell of a lot more capable than the older Hornets and will be replaced later by NGAD

[somber knoll]

post nam manufacturing problems Yikes poi

[manic latch]

Oh got it

[midnight ore]

anyway, F-35 is the best plane in the world

thirdies can cope

[desert agate]

when the RAAF replaced its F-111s in the mid 2000s, each airframe required 180 hours of maintenance per hour of flight

[spring briar]

DC-3

[past laurel]

Isnt it the vid where he talks about child him getting mad that the bomber that replaces the Avro Vulcan is the Panavia Tornado, a plane that can't do what the Vulcan does? Then he talks about how adult him thought child him was stupid. That the Vulcan didn't need replacing, just retirement, because the role it filled wasn't relevant?

[manic latch]

B-2 fan here
Cut your bull

[desert agate]

meanwhile the Gs

[chilly osprey]

I hope there's a dedicated EW NGAD type

[desert agate]

how is this relevant to the F-35???

[spring briar]

me reading this

https://tenor.com/view/wait-a-minute-wait-what-confused-gif-15074314

[manic latch]

Tfw replacing B-2 with B-21 which is %50 smaller payload

[past laurel]

Because "why are they replacing my F-16/A-10 with the F-35 when the F-35 can't even do half the things the A-10 can do" sentiment that he explained at the start and how it's wrong

[shrewd pecan]

anyway time to smooth my brain

[desert agate]

ok right but most of the people spouting that crap know nothing about aircraft so yeah

[humble mulch]

theres

only like 20 B-2 bombers iirc

[somber knoll]

meanwhile IJN JMSDF with their F-X: yo dawg.

[desert agate]

lol

lmao, even

[shrewd pecan]

uhhhh F-14A = YOU WILL COMPRESSOR STALL NOW!

[manic latch]

Of course. They are very expensive girls. And damn effective

[past laurel]

Expand your brain. Watch Perun

[shrewd pecan]

I do

[humble mulch]

Yes and now we can make even more that are stealthier and have them in flocks

[shrewd pecan]

but where else m I gonna get crude jokes and pictures of pigs

[manic latch]

Big girls are better. And she is losing good ammount of payload

[past laurel]

True. I love the crude jokes and rants

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

50% payload because the other 50% wasnt really needed?

[shrewd pecan]

anyway F-35 must be best aircraft because Norway flies it

[humble mulch]

that too

like we dont need to stealth bomb entire city blocks

[past laurel]

The F-5 is the best jet. Because hot damn it's sexy

[dusty kraken]

can I stick 2 F-35s together like how they did with the F-82

[desert agate]

best jet is F-111

sorry not sorry

[spring briar]

hahahahahaha

[spring briar]

aardvark boy spotted

[shrewd pecan]

uhhhhhhh F-111 better plane than A-10

cope harder A-10bois

[desert agate]

we called it the pig because aardvark was too hard to say

[desert agate]

unironically this

[past laurel]

Fuck, marry, kill
Fuck the B-1
Marry the F-5
Send the F-4 to the scrapyard. I hate how that plane looks

[shrewd pecan]

the fuck you doing to my B-1 lancer?

[humble mulch]

Time to ban Shipwrite

[desert agate]

dont cry tea

[spring briar]

takes the bullet

[past laurel]

🏃

[desert agate]

its the right decision

[shrewd pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/b1-lancer-gif-19598184

smh hands off of her

[desert agate]

loyal wingman my beloved

[dusty kraken]

once again no sticking your genitals into military equipment

[desert agate]

now we just have to bring back CAC

and all will be good

[shrewd pecan]

god I love the B-1 Lancer

[desert agate]

used to have a die cast B-1 as a kid and the wings were my favourite shit

[shrewd pecan]

I need to get a model kit for a B-1 at somepoint

[strong plank]

I put together a model of an F117 recently

it wasn’t a very good one

fuck Revell, all my homies hate revell

[shrewd pecan]

I need to throw it on my shelf with the rest of my crap

[strong plank]

Not with that attitude

[shrewd pecan]

get a super big suicide drone for that

[spring briar]

This?

[shrewd pecan]

👁️

[delicate beacon]

Richie

Buy my book

[spring briar]

how much

[delicate beacon]

1 headpat

[strong plank]

actually that reminds me, my dad’s working on a model of that newish drone

X-47B

[spring briar]

I'll have 2

your book crashed my pc

[delicate beacon]

wow

[alpine onyx]

A fine addition to my collection

[delicate beacon]

Sirene no

You didn't pay

[alpine onyx]

Now rewrite Wikipedia with it

[delicate beacon]

[alpine onyx]

I only provide headrubs

[delicate beacon]

Payment accepted

[alpine onyx]

Far more intense and pure

Highly concentrated stuff

[spring briar]

provides Sirene with diesel

btw your country is running out of gas

[alpine onyx]

[shrewd pecan]

gaming

[strong plank]

GHPC be like

[desert agate]

Yes lmao

[spring briar]

looool

[manic latch]

Wait

F-111 is retired no?

[spring briar]

I played with the wings so much they are loose

[shrewd pecan]

yes it is

[spring briar]

they freely pivot

[manic latch]

So if it's better. Then why did it retire before A-10

[shrewd pecan]

she was a expensive maintenance whore despite being cool

[manic latch]

F-111B

[shrewd pecan]

• end of cold war and the F-15E being in service in sufficient numbers

F-111B was stupid

[manic latch]

Imagine being heavier than F-14

[shrewd pecan]

I give the F-14 shit but it was actually a decent fighter once its engines weren't compressor stalling constantly

[manic latch]

Ye fock the F-30

[shrewd pecan]

F-111B was just dumb in concept

yeah we're gonna dogfight with a F-111

[spring briar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5T8n0hQTc

yeehaw manifest destiny

[shrewd pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/fighterjet-f111-afterburner-speed-fly-gif-16340388

afterburns to get away from Russian plane it can't out maneuver

Gets smacked by R-60

[manic latch]

Boom and Zoom fetish people be like

Still kinda weird they killed YF-23 for YF-22 because it "turns better"

[shrewd pecan]

???????

why wouldn't they go with the plane with better agility?

[strong plank]

Imagine a world where the X-32 had won

[manic latch]

Didn't F-22 was more maneuverable than F-23

[strong plank]

that’d be fucky

[shrewd pecan]

yes

[fierce sparrow]

I see Oculus Rift...
I wonder if the US Military ever tried the IronVision or something similar on AFVs?

[manic latch]

Because 23 got better stealth

[shrewd pecan]

you're making the first fifth gen fighter meant to out maneuver and kill anything it may meet

why wouldn't you go with the fighter with better agility?

[spring briar]

me waiting for the official joffre announcement to go and put a french flag in the reactions

https://tenor.com/view/nervous-sweating-wet-gif-7398449

[strong plank]

Fastest react in the west

[fierce sparrow]

[shrewd pecan]

IVAS is gonna be funny once its service ready

[manic latch]

Yeah but

Why meet them close in first place

23 would keep the long range advantage better and destroy the enemy before they go for dogfight range

[shrewd pecan]

YF-23 didn't have the long range advantage

it just had lower RCS

its not like anything is going to really detect the F-22 at range

combine with the fact you can't really rely on you know, always being at BVR range especially with the type of engagements the ATF was meant for

[manic latch]

Hmm another question

Why not give F35 better maneuverability by single upgrade as well

For example longer fins

[shrewd pecan]

F-35s already decently maneuverable

[manic latch]

While fins beings longer hurts stealth it was something F-22 choose over short fins

Since better turning

[desert agate]

doesnt matter still cool as shit

F-111C my beloved

in terms of the RAAF, the F-111 was an aircraft ordered to replace the Canberras, however the F-111 took 10 years to enter RAAF service, and so the RAAF kinda sat around for a while with an increasingly obsolete bomber force
then the RAAF loved the F-111 so much, they decided to keep them in service for 50 years, with planned retirement in 2020, just in time to be replaced by the (at the time) nascent F-35 program, then known as the JSF
however the F-111, despite going through large refits multiple times to extend its service life was just such a headache that they pulled the retirement date back to 2010, and with the F-35 still at least 10 years away, an interim fighter was needed, thus the F/A-18F Super Hornet
then the RAAF loved the super hornet so much that they bought even more of them and current plans are to keep them in service alongside the F-35 for a few years until an additional squadron of F-35s can be ordered and delivered

damn shame i never got to see a dump and burn in person

[shrewd pecan]

I was only criticizing it in the proposed F-111B naval variant

since that was just a dumb role to put the F-111 in

[manic latch]

Please war thunder add her already

We already got the A-10

[ivory ridge]

jesus christ

ah fuck didnt mean to ping

i know fighter jets generations are more of a suggestion than a rule at this point but

why is europe going for gen 6 aircrafts without ever building a 5

that isnt the f35

or well

the why is obvious

more like how

[desert agate]

probably because they reckon that the technology will be more matured for their 6th gen

as it stands it looks like 5th gen is just going to be a stopgap for the west to jump over to 6th gen

5th gen fighters could have been operational 20-30 years ago if the West decided to do it but the need wasnt really there so it never happened

so with the fact that 5th gen tech is a solid 20 years old already, 6th gen coming about in the next decade or two makes sense

[eager dove]

"stopgap"

800+ F-35's built as of June 2022

ok

Europe is trying to leapfrog into "6th gen" without having developed a proper 5th gen platform

it should be amusing to watch

[desert agate]

that

wasnt my point

but whatever

[strong plank]

reading about the 1950s army
Gavin is mentioned every other paragraph

did sparks write this

[eager dove]

the F-35 really doesn't seem like a stopgap to me in the slightest even with the US actively developing 6th gen aircraft

[desert agate]

i wasnt saying the platforms were stopgaps

[ivory ridge]

for Europe it is

[desert agate]

the F-35 is here to stay

[eager dove]

why did you say stopgaps then lol

there really isn't anything "stopgap" about the F-35 in any of its models

[desert agate]

i meant its going to be a shorter generation without nearly as much in the way of aircraft or development compared to say, 3rd or 4th gen

like what actually exists in 5th gen fighters other than the F-35?

a barely a dozen Russian 5th gens and whatever the Chinese are doing?

[ivory ridge]

the plane itself isnt a stopgap but most countries arent replacing their entire inventories with F-35s, most are just supplementing them with it

[desert agate]

and who has plans to further develop their own 5th gens on large scale other than the Americans and Chinese?

and its questionable if the Chinese will even be capable of going full force into 5th gen

and the US is working on 2 6th gen programs independently right now

with Europe working on another two iirc

assuming one of the European programs fails thats 150% of all successful 5th gen programs (to this point)

[eager dove]

Australia, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Norway, Canada and more are replacing effectively their entire airforces current jets with F-35's

it's not just a supplement lmao

the European countries are holding out for their next gen platform in an attempt to keep their domestic industries alive in the face of America dominating the military fighter aviation sphere again

[desert agate]

there was what, 20-30 different mass produced 4th gen programs over the last 30-40 years?

compared to at this point... 2 mass produced 5th gens

while 5th gen programs have existed since the 80s

[eager dove]

in the US and maybe Russia if you are charitable

[eager dove]

I meant to reply to this sorry

[ivory ridge]

Yes, and if you notice, none of those countries are part of either tempest nor FCAS

[eager dove]

only the US had actual active and workable programs producing anything

the Russians were wallowing in the 1990s

[desert agate]

so the technology for 5th gen programs has existed for 30 odd years

so it makes sense that people are moving onto the next thing

[eager dove]

yes and?

6th gen is incredibly vague about what it actually entails in an aircraft

wowie future lasers, ADVANCED AI, DRONES

basically every buzzword in the book

[desert agate]

loyal wingman is the first 6th gen

[eager dove]

the technology for 5th gen programs has existed for a few decades with basically nobody outside of the US, Russia and China seriously attempting to build them

and only the US actually has really got serial production going on a large scale

China to a lesser degree recently

[desert agate]

china gets the you tried medal

[manic latch]

Yeah what I wonder is Will Tempest be truly better than F-22

Or end up another fifth gen

[desert agate]

5.5gen

[eager dove]

I hope its better than the F-22 considering that the F-22 was initially delivered to the USAF in 2003

[shrewd pecan]

one day she’ll get her major modernization

[manic latch]

F-22D

[desert agate]

fuck you retirement in the next decade

[shrewd pecan]

god the F-22 ended up being so good it became forgotten about

[manic latch]

F-22F Super Raptor

[ivory ridge]

the only F-22s being retired are either pre serie or extremely early models

[eager dove]

I don't have a whole lot of hope for Tempest or FCAS. Europeans loved to point the fingers at the US for the issues with the F-35 but now they are going to try to jump an entire generation without actually designing or properly building their own.

[ivory ridge]

and the congress just asked them to upgrade them instead

[desert agate]

so far*

[eager dove]

It'll likely pump out a 5th gen or 5.5th gen aircraft at very best

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/AAQ-37

[eager dove]

I hope Saab's attempts at a 5th gen die a horrid death

inshallah

[shrewd pecan]

man literally just shove the F-35s IRST and avionics on there

pretty sure SAABs fifth gen has been dead for years

[manic latch]

I mean they are around 180 by number. So even losing 15 is almost %10 of it

[desert agate]

may sweden be bombed from this earth

[eager dove]

Flygsystem 2020 is still hobbling along in some zombified state

[shrewd pecan]

how

[eager dove]

they are latching onto Tempest in an attempt to siphon expertise from that

[shrewd pecan]

👁️ fucking Swedes

[eager dove]

the program hasn't been canceled

[shrewd pecan]

you design one good IFV and I never hear the end of it

now you got this zombie program still ongoing

[spring briar]

Saab starts building 5th gen
Somehow end up with 2nd gen

[ivory ridge]

[shrewd pecan]

the average Swedish military fan when you dare mention the CV-90

[spring briar]

Today on “will it blend?”

[desert agate]

i remember when they blended a car

my teacher used to put that on in IT class

did literally 0 work in that class and the teacher gave us all 80%

[manic latch]

Su-57 fans: Chillin

F-35 fans out of nowhere: F-35 is better

Su-57 fans: Ok

[desert agate]

su-57 fans are rabid though

[manic latch]

Consider yourself lucky India left the program

If India stayed. It would gain their community

So current fanbase is more calm then ye realise

[desert agate]

you know nothing about Indian nationalists

you havent seen what ive seen

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

no cricket forum is safe

[shrewd pecan]

There is nothing more racist and rabid than a Indian nationalist

[desert agate]

indian nationalists the moment you mention cricket

[spring briar]

Rafale fans:

[shrewd pecan]

where was like

The Russian cope meme that was made in response to the US fighter kill ratio meme

[ivory ridge]

lmfao what

[shrewd pecan]

Where under the Su-57 it was just “bright future”

[ivory ridge]

my brother in christ you couldnt be more wrong

it's usually literally the other way around

[manic latch]

seems I have missed that

[ivory ridge]

people talking about F35
some cunt: but le ruZZians and chineZe

case in point, you literally just did that

[spring briar]

Do SU-57’s engines work yet?

[manic latch]

Wot

[eager dove]

F-35 living rent free in the head of SU-57 fans

[shrewd pecan]

There was a response meme to that

[manic latch]

Nah better one, Izlediye 30 under works still

[desert agate]

i know i couldnt find the other one though

[shrewd pecan]

👁️ I still like how a few of the MIG-29s kills were Cessnas

[manic latch]

I think meme was about SAM missiles

[eager dove]

the virgin six serial platforms vs the chad 800+ airframes produced

[manic latch]

It's not the plane, it's the pilot
Topgun smh

[shrewd pecan]

the meme had like “Su-57: bright future”

idk it’s not like the Su-57s ever getting mass procured

[spring briar]

There’s actually a big concern about SU-57’s survivability against ground based AA due to its huge width

It’s practically a flying square

[eager dove]

the SU-57 is old news

the SU-75 is the new cope machine

once it goes from a cardboard mockup to an actual aircraft

[ivory ridge]

Su-75 Femboy

[manic latch]

Dunno man. Maybe one day it will get better. It's not like it will become obsolete in next decade

[desert agate]

if*

[strong plank]

Yeah uh

[spring briar]

SU-75 is smiling

[strong plank]

Aren’t they facing a big parts shortage rn

[eager dove]

it's already kind of pointless considering 5th gens are already proliferated through Europe with the F-35

whoopsie

[strong plank]

bc of [current world event]

[shrewd pecan]

Sanctions have basically left the viability of both programs in doubt due to the cutting of components so

[manic latch]

I doubt we will ever see F-35 vs Su-57 unless a world war anyway

[shrewd pecan]

I don’t want to dive into the politics of it, but China and India aren’t bailing Russia out in the chip supply department

[manic latch]

Look at F-22 for example. She never fought with Su-27 or other

Mostly bomb Syria instead

[eager dove]

yes the entire point is the SU-57 isn't special anymore

everybody and their dog has an F-35 now

[desert agate]

i dont event think the f-22 has confirmed a2a kills

[manic latch]

Irrc Iranian F4.

[shrewd pecan]

it has drone kills

No kremlin

[manic latch]

Oh

So yeah no plane kills

[shrewd pecan]

It never shot down a Iranian F-4, I already told you that

[desert agate]

does the f-35?

[shrewd pecan]

Yeah

Israeli F-35s have shot down Iranian drones

[desert agate]

yeah i figured Israel had done stuff

[shrewd pecan]

F-22s shot down target drones, that’s about it

[manic latch]

That's why I dislike air superiority fighters instead Multirole

Since you end up using them as bomber more

[eager dove]

Not really?

if you have an actual war you don't

[desert agate]

F-22 wasnt exported which didnt do good for its kill count anyway

[spring briar]

Damn

SU-75 ugly af

[eager dove]

it's not the aircraft or even the designations fault that a specialized platform didn't get a chance to fight a war because a war didn't happen