history

[manic latch]

It's either from US or British

[desert agate]

No concrete plans have been made either way

[manic latch]

Rolls Royce is really improving with engine deals lately

B-52 refit engines

Turkish Jet engine talks

Now this Australian engine speaks

[chilly osprey]

Really hope the British government isn't dumb enough to allow the project with Turkey to go through

Really makes no sense to enable them at a time when they're being so antagonistic

[desert agate]

Correction is needed

💢

[ivory ridge]

mig-15 engine flashback

right

[manic latch]

Nah I see what they are doing

Said Turkish fighter is expected to appear 10 years before Tempest

Rolls can get Jet engine building experience for Tempest by using Turkish Jet as test platform

Or smh like experimenting

And British just lifted military sanctions on Turkey few weeks ago

[chilly osprey]

That implies that RR at all needs to experience of working on an engine for Turkey rather than the other way around. They're currently working with the Japanese for studies on the future engine of F-X and likely Tempest too.

Working with Turkey really accomplishes nothing in that sense other than spending time and money on something that isn't part of the FCAS project, other than bringing in money for RR.

And it is a dumb as bricks approach to further reward Erdogan's belligerence against other NATO members.

[manic latch]

[ivory ridge]

lol

[manic latch]

Maybe they also bet on Erdogan losing in 2023

[ivory ridge]

lmao

[manic latch]

If Erdogan lose. I expect opposing party to be pro West unlike him

[ivory ridge]

erdogan losing

lol

lmao

[chilly osprey]

Don't be shocked if he decides to drop the guise of democracy if thinks he might lose...

Purges of officers in the armed forces generally don't jive with someone who's looking forward to peaceably transferring power to another party.

[ivory ridge]

turkey global power

kekw

[tough quail]

on today's episode of delusions of grandeur

[manic latch]

Still calling Anadolu carrier

[ivory ridge]

muh drones

i like your stuff Oryx but holy fuck

i get that either one or both of the guys behind it are turkish but man

[tough quail]

yea

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/turkey-man-angry-out-of-car-meme-fast-am-talking-gif-17285849

[manic latch]

Oh you would hate him if a war between Italy vs Turkey was a thing

[tough quail]

that sounds absolutely hilarious

[manic latch]

"Altay destroys 5 F-35 of Italy"

[tough quail]

italy refuses the declaration of war japan-poland style

[manic latch]

Yeah war between Italy and Turkey would be awkward

Since Greece is a thing between

And we know who they would support

Naval engagement would be interesting tho

[ivory ridge]

Ignoring the fact that a 1v1 war would never happen anyway

No matter who starts it

[manic latch]

Dunno man

If Turkey vs Greece gives it a go

Would more countries join

Tho yeah guess they would for Italy

But for Greece?

Not sure

[tough quail]

everyone just gets out the popcorn

cue simpsons monkey fight gif

[manic latch]

Cyprus 2

[desert agate]

2 idiots fighting

[chilly osprey]

Turkey article 5'ing NATO because of Greece would be a meme

But, uh, in terms of practical allies

[manic latch]

Can you even active article 5 if both is Nato member?

[chilly osprey]

I don't know

Though, I'd note that the recent French high-intensity naval exercise addressed this situation and might give you an idea of how some expect any dumb move by Turkey to play out

Mainly that the scenario, while of course changing everyone's names, features Turkey going to war against Greece of Cyprus, with Russian backing. The US declines to get involved because it won't get involved in a fight inside of NATO, while Italy and France organize a naval relief effort with Greece against the invasion of Cyprus.

[manic latch]

Maybe British too? They have military base in Cyprus right

[chilly osprey]

Britain wasn't included in the scenario

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

back to the shadow realm they go

[chilly osprey]

One would hope that they would get involved. But, at the very least, France does intend to back Greece in any conflict with Turkey. Anyone else, is less clear.

But, tbh, with how things stand now, any naval war between Italy or France and Turkey is kind of a one-sided affair of kicking puppies. Turkey's navy is really not in any condition to be standing up up to them.

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

it's like hitting a puppy with a sledgehammer

[chilly osprey]

Fast forward 15 years, and if Turkey's naval expansion plans come to fruition, then you might have a more concerning fight, if only because Turkey's fleet won't be comprised of primarily 1980s and 90s relics

[manic latch]

Tf2000 wunderwaffe

[chilly osprey]

Also, yes, I honestly thought Oryx was Turkish given how much he sucks them off on his blog and on social media. I was surprised to learn he was Dutch lol.

[manic latch]

Wait he wasn't Turkish?

[chilly osprey]

Dutch

[manic latch]

Sang alt account

[desert agate]

Sang spends too much time drawing Dutch botes to count all those tanks

[chilly osprey]

The terrain-hugging and low observable features inherent to cruise missile designs also makes the KARA Atmaca notoriously difficult to intercept

My brother in watermelon seller, how can a system that isn't in service be notorious

[frigid karma]

What repulse is packing under her skirt

[spring briar]

(340 mm)

[chilly osprey]

Lmao is that solid shot or something

Christ

What gun?

[spring briar]

340mm/42 Mle.1887

the one on Brennus, Valmy and Jemappes

lmao

it has a 7.7 kg black powder burster

ok it's not that heavy on second look

since it's 340mm

[chilly osprey]

Ok, I see

Yeah, you had me there for a sec lol

[spring briar]

305 is always in the 340-350 range for the old pre dreads
and then jumps to 435.5 for the Dantons and Courbets

I almost died lol

[chilly osprey]

You're just lucky he does the French system in metric

I actually go so tired of having to do conversions in the Italian section of that book that I actually copied over a chunk of the chapter and re-wrote it with conversions for personal reference

Ex;

[spring briar]

343

british?

[chilly osprey]

In origin, yeah

[spring briar]

I can tell
it's only /30

[chilly osprey]

Armstrong guns used by the RM on the Re Umberto-class turret ironclads

[spring briar]

with the cute gunshields?

[chilly osprey]

yeah

They're basically the contemporaries of the Marceau-class

[spring briar]

old

before the british started spamming pre dreads

simpler times

[chilly osprey]

yup

[spring briar]

saw this chode in a museum once

the way countries before ww1 jacketed their bullets

wtf is Switzerland smoking

[chilly osprey]

Also the last class of Italian battleships to use French armor (Schneider Nickel-Steel plate)

[spring briar]

afterwards Krupp?

or..
harvey?

[chilly osprey]

Next two classes used Harveyized plate

[spring briar]

yeah just realised the time frame lol

[chilly osprey]

RM adopted Krupp-cemented type with the second pair of Regina Elena-class battleships

[spring briar]

accidentally sees pictures from hollow point bullets (dum dum bullets) in ww1

[chilly osprey]

Use of Harveyized plate also marks when Terni started producting the heavy armor plate for battleships

[spring briar]

neat

[chilly osprey]

Before then it was mostly worshipping at the church of French mild steel/nickel-steel, aside from that one time they tried compound armor on Italia

[spring briar]

you should've joined the church of french shell development

Then again

I’m fairly sure italy had working shells in ww1

[chilly osprey]

I haven't seen any complaints about the shells not working, though at the same time there were fairly limited opportunities to shoot at heavily armored opponents with battleship guns

[spring briar]

Combined franco italian fleet vs hsf at jutland

[delicate beacon]

[chilly osprey]

I think we would have been eviscerated on account of the issue around engagement ranges...

[spring briar]

Jeunne ecole mode activated

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

Azur lane gameplay: press auto
Azur lane lore:

[spring briar]

@desert agate tell me who in your opinion was mostly at fault in the submarine deal

[desert agate]

I think that Naval Group was. They were actively belligerent to their customer, changing already negotiated conditions of the deal multiple times and the Australian government was justified in leaving the deal
What the Australian government was not justified in doing was lie to the French, and make negotiations with the Americans and British behind their backs

Both sides were at fault to an extent

But Naval Group have only themselves to blame

[spring briar]

yes I do agree with that, but I think naval group is definitely the main antagonist of this story

but how much is the french government to blame

[junior trench]

depends how much they were egging on Naval Group to keep grabbing more workshare for France

which is probably "a lot" considering French export policy

which is "export over collaboration"

[spring briar]

so the "australian infrastructure isn't good enough" is not true?

[junior trench]

France is a great seller

a horrible partner

[spring briar]

yes, looking at the leclerc and rafale that does seem to be the case

[desert agate]

The RANs requirements since the writing of the 2011 defence white paper that outlined the requirements for a Collins class replacement
In 2011 the Indo Pacific was a very different place, peer conflict was not seen as reasonably possible and the RAN was learning lessons from East Timor. Popular opinion in Australia at the time was that China was destined to be Australia's greatest partner in the region, replacing the US, and thus the RAN, learning lessons from East Timor and 9/11 understood that power projection and regional stability and suppression of potential terrorism hot spots was the primary aim of the RAN, not preparing for a peer conflict that was not seen as possible
In the current geopolitical environment, in order to engage in any sort of peer conflict the RAN requires the capability to launch long ranged combat operations, something not possible even with the longest range diesel sub
Thus with a belligerent Naval Group delivering an obsolete capability, it was decided to cancel the conventional submarine program

[spring briar]

and this was internally decided in 2016?

[desert agate]

No this was decided over some drinks in 2021

[ivory ridge]

One of the two is turkish origin dutch

[spring briar]

oh

[ivory ridge]

It's also how they have the turkish twitter account

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

The RAN was becoming increasingly aware that the Attack class was not going to be suitable for Australian requirements in the future as early as 2019 possibly earlier

But without any viable pathway into a submarine that would suit Australian requirements we were seen as locked in

However during the first meeting of world leaders since the end of covid lockdowns, Biden, Johnson and Morrison all discussed this and thus the genesis of AUKUS and the nuclear submarine program was born

[spring briar]

Johnson...

[desert agate]

In the end the nuclear sub deal was the best option for Australia, the way we went about it was wrong

[spring briar]

I thought the attack class subs had been made to be able to be converted if need be if australian protest against nuclear had died down a bit in the wake of the fukushima disaster

but this was not a viable compromise I guess?

[desert agate]

I'm not aware of such a thing and if it were possible then it would be pointless because they would have made poor SSNs

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Public opposition to nuclear was never the issue, we've seen only minor protests over these nuke subs and it appears most people support them

The issue was requirements

Why pay for something you don't need?

We didn't need nuclear 10 years ago

We do now

[spring briar]

and Macron is angry at Morisson because he feels cheated?

[desert agate]

Because the Australian government had told the French that the submarine deal with them was going ahead as planned a week prior to the announcement

They were lied to and given 0 notice

[spring briar]

and what's the overall perception of the online community on this?

I hope the general opinion in Drach's server isn't the norm

[desert agate]

Well the submarine deal and the scandal surrounding it was a part of Scott Morrison losing the election

It definitely contributed

The Morrison government fell in opinion polls hard when everything came to light

so most people, again, didnt like the way it was handled by the government

but at the same time it was Albanese promising not to cancel the nuclear submarines that helped keep people on board with his defence policy

and thus contributed to him winning the election

but theres a lot more to it and i dont want to go into the details of Australian politics because rules

[chilly osprey]

Less infrastructure, more simply things Australian industry couldn't provide.

We ultimately can't really verify anything beyond what the companies involved stated, but it does have to be said that the original contract for the Attack-class with Naval Group and Lockheed Martin, back in 2016, called for 90% of the work to be done in Australia, which was extremely ambitious.

A couple years later, circa 2019, the CEO of NG's Australia subsidiary warned that workshare for Australia could potentially be below 50%, due to lack of local suppliers for many systems, which caused a lot of uproar, and in 2020 they committed to a figure of 60%. Obviously still far less than the 90% first promised, but that figure doesn't seem like it was ever realistic. Australia simply didn't have the companies to work on many of the key components of the submarine, so a lot of it had to come from overseas suppliers, including companies other than Naval Group in France (Schneider, Jeumont), and some companies that weren't even French. And that's only really looking at hardware, too, since system integration was pretty much all LockMart's game.

And that was where the situation stood, in that regard, up until the point of the cancellation.

This article from July 2020 touches on some of the things that could and couldn't be done in Australia, for example;

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/07/attack-class-submarine-program-moving-forward/

[spring briar]

yeah, read that article in the meanwhile

honestly I only see one solution everyone could agree with

[tough quail]

gladiatorial combat for the contract

[spring briar]

no, nothing like that

[chilly osprey]

Ultimately, as Spon said, the key element is that a conventional submarine couldn't provide what Australia needed. This was a long-running criticism of the Attack-class program itself, and at the end of the day, the Australian government made the only right decision. It's just that it really should have been made much earlier, and they should have been much clearer much earlier with the French as to their intentions.

Not that, mind you, that still would have gone smoothly. I'm sure Naval Group would still have been furious, but it probably wouldn't have become quite the same diplomatic incident, either.

[spring briar]

This is the solution I propose:

[desert agate]

the best solution for all parties would be to go to the French and tell them that our requirements had changed and to then launch a fair and open submarine tender competition in which all parties could provide their tenders and thus the French wouldnt be snubbed if their submarine was turned down

[spring briar]

I still think deleting Germany will achieve more in the end

[chilly osprey]

Tbh, would have been quite difficult to do an open tender for an SSN. Might have just been easier to involve France in the AUKUS project. Especially because that would have made the acronym 'FAUKUS', which is way funnier

[ivory ridge]

Shall we go the Eurovision way

[spring briar]

I don't really get why France isn't in it
unless it's just because of the language difference
or because france has a tendency to kinda do its own thing in big pacts?

like NATO

[junior trench]

yes

[spring briar]

you take out the west, we take the east
we meet up at Ayer's rock and have a bbq

[junior trench]

also France leaks like a sieve

relatively speaking

[desert agate]

eh AUKUS is much more than submarines, it's a military alliance which replaced the defunct ANZUS treaty and France is not a treaty ally of Australia, and France doesnt have the same policy goals in the Asia Pacific

[spring briar]

I heard they got hacked

[desert agate]

Australia the US and UK all have the same foreign policy in the Asia Pacific and the ANZUS treaty was defunct, thus a new treaty was needed

[delicate beacon]

*polders Germany back into existence*

[spring briar]

you can have it sang

idc

do something nice with it

[desert agate]

i have a comment on this but im not sure if im legally allowed to say it

[delicate beacon]

Currently the Netherlands is world 2nd agricultural producer. Imagine if we'd have this too

[spring briar]

agricultural producer of weed?

[ivory ridge]

look for funny eurovision meme

[desert agate]

ugh

[spring briar]

dms?

[spiral cedar]

[desert agate]

uh no, military secrets act

ok nvm its public knowledge

[spring briar]

[delicate beacon]

Thanks War Thunder

[ivory ridge]

On my way to leak Ariete documents only to realize the ingame armor is somehow actually better

[desert agate]

the Australian military runs its intranet and stores its sensitive documentation through a Chinese owned contractor

the deal was meant to run out in 2020

but the "tough on China" Morrison government renewed it

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/shy-lily-gif-24953018

[chilly osprey]

lmao

[desert agate]

my friend in the navy told me about it and i wasnt sure how much of the story was public knowledge or not

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-16/global-switch-deal-defence-data-security-files/13149592

[delicate beacon]

I wish I could leak secret documents to wargaming.
It's not that I don't have them. It's that they don't want actual sources.

[desert agate]

hes smarter than to leak confidential info to me tho

[spring briar]

ok boxer rebellion 2: electric boogaloo when?

[desert agate]

even though when i join i'll have a higher security clearance than him

[chilly osprey]

Lol

[spring briar]

explain

can't be as leaky as germany

[tough quail]

this is so stupid that i have to believe its a shitpost

[rapid junco]

I've good news to you though
Not about that btw

Talking to Luiz Cordova
I asked him if he had any updates on V-15's situation
He said the repair team managed to refloat her

[spring briar]

well, having seen a bunch of AUKUS memes I have decided to commit the big sad as I lament my heritage in the corner of my room

[delicate beacon]

[spring briar]

[rapid junco]

[rapid junco]

I asked him if she's going to be reopened
His response was "Probably"

[desert agate]

its not your fault richy

youre still fren

[spring briar]

everyone hates my heritage

[rapid junco]

I don't

[desert agate]

just because government cringe doesnt mean you cringe

[junior trench]

yeah, you're cringe by your own merits, and your own merits alone

/joke

[spring briar]

remembers the battle of hastings, the 2nd italian war of independence and the battle of yorktown

ok no longer sad

[desert agate]

i believe in a world where a man is not cringe because of where he is from, but by the content of his character

[spring briar]

btw I am not actually sad because my heritage is frequently mocked

[desert agate]

unless theyre from Denmark

[spring briar]

I just find it amusing

but sorry for that shit in Indochina

that wasn't nice

and Haiti

yeah

uhh

oh and sorry to the Canadians

Quebec can be rough

[desert agate]

breaking news riche apologises for the crimes of the entire french people in history, thus indirectly assuming responsibility for those crimes

[spring briar]

imagine only looking at the positive side of your countries history

that's how you get [insert name]-aboos

[desert agate]

so true

[spring briar]

the country of my other side of my heritage caused a nationwide famine and disease wave that eventually lead to 10 million deaths

on top of the people that were handicapped for life

[spring briar]

undy wtf

I was having a moment

[ivory ridge]

And i like posting botes

Cope and seethe

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

[ivory ridge]

Goddammit reddit

[desert agate]

did someone say posting botes?

[spring briar]

even Belgium is getting 35

[tough quail]

its almost like half the fucking world was brought into the program to get it to escape the usual three thousand year procurement of US material

[ivory ridge]

I love Belgium 🇩🇪

[tough quail]

belgium is a strange place

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

i have a thousand reasons to curse their very existence and a thousand reasons to sing their praises to the heavens

[ivory ridge]

I'm doing the same joke in the WT server because Italy is gonna get Hungarian ww2 tanks

[tribal mortar]

Especially after hearing about a certain dude by the name of king Leopold II

I hear people would give an arm or a leg just to meet him

That's foul I shouldn't say that

[spring briar]

King Leopold II was an idiot

[ivory ridge]

I love the Netherlands 🇷🇺

[tribal mortar]

He was a monster

[spring briar]

and he allowed other idiots to have people commit atrocities for them

they let other congolese cut off the hands of their own compatriots for money and artificial power if said compatriots didn't achieve their rubber quotas

[tough quail]

-Horrible warcrime boogaloo
-Invalid Dutch breakaway province
-German backdoor into France
-Flag looks german
-Fucking atrocious roads

+Horrible warcrime boogaloo
+Basically just french Netherlands and I'm a ouiaboo
+Spa is a fantastic track
+Every good American gun is actually just Belgian
+Listening to my girlfriend bitch about Belgian roads is really funny

[spring briar]

Belgian roads are indeed as bad as they sound

[desert agate]

They were cool in WW1

King Albert fighting on the front with his troops

[tough quail]

yeah that was pretty based

[spring briar]

King Albert I the chadicus maximus

died by falling to his death while rock climbing

[desert agate]

Gonna be in Brussels on Thursday

[spring briar]

his idiot son then just surrendered to the nazis

[desert agate]

For 30 minutes

But still

[spring briar]

then again
if he hadn't surrendered I wouldn't exist probably

the nazis would have just shot everyone after the initial defence

[tough quail]

at least it's not a petain situation

[spring briar]

just some extra casualties before the same idiots allow the French frontlines to fall to a bunch of drug junky nazis in dumb little baby tanks

[tough quail]

insert foch copypasta here

[spring briar]

only for them to come out better at the end and get praised to the heavens to the point where IB is a major faction

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

but I aint having none of it

[tough quail]

just remember

if you count lewis guns, belgium probably has a way better KDR than germany does against them

FN back to back world war champs

[spring briar]

"muh gentlemen of the high seas"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Belgium

The Belgian Expeditionary Corps was a small armoured car unit; it was sent to Russia in 1915 and fought on the Eastern Front. The Minerva armoured car was used for reconnaissance, long distance messaging and carrying out raids and small scale engagements. Sixteen Belgians were killed in action in the east.[39]

[tough quail]

taking the rhineland would be too mean doe

[spring briar]

In the end we got a tiny amount of reparations

and Eupen-Malmedy

which is basically nothing as well

[tough quail]

could've just used the rhine as the border for maginot and neatly tucked france and belgium safe from any reattempted invasion but that's just too mean

it sure is a good thing there was definitely no raping of either country in the next war

[spring briar]

oh well in the end we managed to rebuild the economy and now we are somewhat relevant as we host literally anything EU related

and our king finally went to Congo recently to apologize for the massacres

so life's good

[tough quail]

noice

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

my boi

[manic latch]

So Turks bring their M48

Still impressive to see them around

Need South Korea to do this refit to their M48

[shrewd pecan]

how to completely overburden a M48 hull

[cinder escarp]

Eh, the fattons are quite capable of hauling substantial weight, particularly with bolt-in suspension and drivetrain updates

Reminder that this is a fatton underneath all of that stuff, in fact a heavier model than the M48 (being an M60A1/A3)

[ivory ridge]

my beloved

[tough quail]

immensely based

[ivory ridge]

Centauro 2 systems on an M60

kekw

[tough quail]

glorious future jank

[cinder escarp]

M60TM up there has an APS even

[tough quail]

what the actual fuck

[shrewd pecan]

shame none of the M60 modernizations never really saw sales outside of Turkey

[cinder escarp]

P U L A T

(It's actually the licensed Zaslon APS from Ukraine)

[tough quail]

i

wh

im going to sleep

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

or well im just gonna keep watching le mans

[spring briar]

Yee

[cinder escarp]

To be fair, horse, there is quite little left in the M60TM that is M60

Different gun, different electronics for everything, different powerpack, new tracks...

[tough quail]

ship of theseus is gay

as long as you dont swap it out all at once it counts to e

[frigid karma]

From quora

This is unironic btw

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

[tough quail]

..it's correct

[shrewd pecan]

no point in a hundred eighty eight ton tank but yeah

[tough quail]

because that involves changing literally every aspect of the tank

[frigid karma]

Ship of Theseus involves swapping out identical parts

Swapping out different parts makes the paradox entirely moot

[shrewd pecan]

god you're going to need like a 6,000 HP engine to make anything maus like decently mobile

[ivory ridge]

So apparently the KF-51 is a

130mm armed Lynx

[shrewd pecan]

the 130 MM no ones going to adopt

[tough quail]

i was gonna mention that's way overestimating it but then i remembered maus isnt 100 tons

its nearly twice that

[shrewd pecan]

yeah I forgot its 188

with 6,000 you'd be getting about

31.9 HP per ton

[tough quail]

how was the maus built in a world where like

T-10s and Conquerors exist

[shrewd pecan]

the rumor mill that made them think the Soviets were going to produce super heavy tanks or something

idk only one was made and 4 partially built so its not as bad if it was actually mass produced

[tough quail]

i more mean that as in

how is it so fucking shit and terrible

[shrewd pecan]

German war time engineering + mandate from Hitler

[tough quail]

its so comically undergunned and under everything for its weight relative to soviet heavies

[cinder escarp]

200mm armor, all sides

[tough quail]

a fucking IS-7 is less than half the weight germany what are you doing

i want to fucking die

[cinder escarp]

Germany is doing it's usual bricklike design combined with armor on all sides

[delicate beacon]

*adds more roadwheels*

[ivory ridge]

the solution is simple

add more guns

[tough quail]

even the is-7 has a mix of 100-150mm sides

[ivory ridge]

see at that weight going for the multi turret layout would make more sense

[cinder escarp]

200mm flat sides

on a giant brick

[tough quail]

yeah

what i mean by that is

DESIGN YOUR SHIT BETTER

TRY

MAKE AN ATTEMPT

[spring briar]

Use more men

[cinder escarp]

Porsche is disappointed in you, horse

[spiral cedar]

Pronounce horse to rhyme with Porsche

[cinder escarp]

In fact...

https://tenor.com/bPDuW.gif

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/f1-cry-about-it-woilem-gif-23090239

currently watching af corse claw its way through the porsches at le mans so get dunked porsche

there's a reason there's a P1 and a LaFerrari in azur lane but no 918

[tough quail]

one of the porsches just spun

lmfao

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

I hate maus because of her gun the most

128mm for that size

While Is-2 handles 122mm

Plans for 150mm never gone through

[cinder escarp]

there never was a 150mm plan

[unborn wyvern]

1959-present day

[somber knoll]

it even got beaten by a Camaro

[tough quail]

demolished

[digital mason]

never

[spiral cedar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/586216580463984650/821617524726038538/unknown.png

"If the IJN wins at Midway, the Japanese invade and occupy the continental US, and Britain falls out of the war"

[tender monolith]

ahahaha

[strong plank]

ah yes

the true japanese plan

[tender monolith]

[strong plank]

landing is no problem when there is literally no navy to stop you

ah yes

the entire USN was at Midway I forgot

[spiral cedar]

landing is no problem

surviving is

Reminder that the Marines on Midway outnumbered the Japanese combat troops

[strong plank]

And in terms of experience the Japanese had the best dive bombers and torpedo bomber pilots in the world which would have lived since they won Midway. To see
how good they are watch the battle of midway and how well they performed against the americans.

"the japanese were the best, see Midway for an example" is a wild take lmao

[spiral cedar]

Midway shows the IJN bomber pilots were good, but also that they sustained horrific loss rates

[strong plank]

I still can't get over

"if the US lost at midway there'd be no USN to defend the US"

[eternal veldt]

Landing at Midway is already going to be pretty rough

Going on and invading the mainland...

What complex operation is Yamamoto going to cook up in his poker lab now

[strong plank]

like

you've still got saratoga fresh from repairs

3 of the 4 brand-new sodaks

both norcals

[eternal veldt]

You've forgotten the Standards

Maryland and Tennessee are already both patched up and ready to go

[strong plank]

plus a ton of cruisers

[eternal veldt]

And that is before moving the New Mexicos and other ships from the Atlantic Theatre

Inb4 Panama I-400 copium

[strong plank]

I actually need to check, how many US ships were present at midway? I can't remember how many escorts there were

[eternal veldt]

http://www.navweaps.com/index_oob/OOB_WWII_Pacific/OOB_WWII_Midway.php

[strong plank]

also like

invade the US with what men

[humble mulch]

looks at China

[strong plank]

are they pulling IJA units out of China to throw them into the US? lmao

[humble mulch]

[spiral cedar]

TFW the IJA gives you 3 divisions to conquer the Pacific

[strong plank]

"men, I have good news and bad news. The good news is we get to leave China"

[humble mulch]

[eternal veldt]

Wrong smh, the US fleet will trod happily to Pearl, and during then Zengen Sakusen will prevail

3000 long lances will ruin the US battle fleet

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSxkn30DnJo

oh my.. Bob Semple t-shirt

[frigid karma]

Even silver is infected with the ncd

[remote monolith]

the 3000 holy Ohkas of Showa

[summer nimbus]

i've got to ask why ark royal likes destroyers

[tender monolith]

dont

[desert agate]

Just character writing has nothing to do with actual history

[digital mason]

weird trope devs gave her

[frigid karma]

“It wash becaush she was escorted by DDs”
Like literally every other capital ship

[tender monolith]

for actual content

[manic latch]

Didn't Hitler complained about the size of the gun

Maybe I am confusing it with E-100 150mm

[cinder escarp]

The gun was Hitler's personal choice, it was the Panzerkomission who thought it was undersized and wanted a bigger gun

But after having asked for and gotten information every single possible gun, the angery guy himself chose the 128mm long gun - he didn't ask for the 75mm coax either and was rather miffed that it had been shoved in.

(They were able to placate him by saying the design and fabrication of the mount was too far along to be worth deleting the 75mm coax)

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/alpha-alpha-male-meme-alpha-males-when-a-full-release-male-walks-in-full-release-male-gif-21829781

[spiral cedar]

As soon as they were ready the monitors were sent to the Dardanelles. By July 1915 all were on station, their invulnerability to submarines and their small crews making them much more appropriate than the pre-dreadnought battleships previously used. They appear to have done well, often shooting at ranges of up to 27,000 yards by the simple expedient of flooding the offshore bulge and so increasing the actual elevation of the guns. Their armament was increased by a single 6-inch aft and some light anti-aircraft guns. Strangely the 6-inch in Roberts had a high-angle mounting making it the largest (and certainly the least effective) anti-aircraft gun ever used by the Royal Navy!

In contrast protection was good, with a highly sloped (about 45 degrees) four-inch belt along the entire length which also covered the entire deck over the magazines.

45 deg

[tough quail]

ah yes

future science

[spring briar]

ah yes

HMS Humber

[tough quail]

was that just a coincidence or were you just really on the ball for that

[spring briar]

Ah yes

M29

Ah yes
Requin

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

sup

[tough quail]

my girlfriend accidentally calling our funny discord group woke me up about an hour early so im back to watching le mans

how are you lads doing

[ivory ridge]

[tender monolith]

about to go to sleep

yay night shift

while playing the Bad Boat Game

[spring briar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/528197562998718474/985151181091385374/ezgif.com-gif-maker_33.gif

[tough quail]

look at her go

[spring briar]

NJ... stay away from Lebanon!

[tender monolith]

...by coincidence my town is named that too

kind of rude imo

[maiden citrus]

I'm very sick, took care of my dad while he was sick

45 degree sloped armor almost made the sickness leave my body though

[tough quail]

[fierce sparrow]

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

God I know the feel

Feeling Soyuz's belt on you every morning

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

France making light cruisers in the interwar period:

https://tenor.com/view/oakley-sciencedog-oakleyscience-gif-22346803

France making light cruisers prior to WW1:

https://tenor.com/view/palla-deserto-desert-hot-gif-6014273

[fierce sparrow]

. . .

[maiden citrus]

I mean

kinda same

🤝

[chilly osprey]

I am a simple man. I just want my OG Mirabello-class...

5,000 tonnes, 29 knots, 8x1 152/50...

not everything with a backslash is a link, discord...

[maiden citrus]

cute ship

[delicate beacon]

👉 ❤️

[frigid karma]

when will this be added as an aux to AL

[night heart]

hry

heeyy

battleship new jersey is reclled for action

recalled

yahhooo

MOTHERFUCKER APRIL FOOLED ME

SHIT

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

you're uh

[tough quail]

aware that if they tried to reactivate any of the iowas their propulsion would commit sudoku

right

[night heart]

man aprill fooled me in june

[spring briar]

also I believe some parts of the ships are welded shut

[night heart]

how are you so sure ?

[desert agate]

Iowa reactivation is in all practical terms impossible without fully tearing apart the ship

[tough quail]

because they were already dying horrible deaths to that in the 80s

iowa-actual completely failed her sea trials in fact

[desert agate]

80+ year old unmaintained engines that haven't moved in 20 aren't going to run at peak efficiency

[maiden citrus]

that's why you reactivate texas instead

[tough quail]

[maiden citrus]

just whisper that the germans are being funny again and the ship will do a magical girl transformation and suddenly be refit

[night heart]

i wish somehow they do it , it would be so beautiful

[desert agate]

Texas
hit by a small wave
capsizes immediately

[tough quail]

that was why iowas turret ended up exploding btw

repeatedly failed her sea trials so she had nothing to actually do

so they started doing stupid shit with her guns while waiting to try again

[desert agate]

Why? Then you wouldn't be able to visit her lovely museum

[spring briar]

The Iowas in today's world are probably comparable to the earliest oceangoing ironclads were in WW1 in terms of technology and capability

[night heart]

seeing her in action is better

[desert agate]

Seeing her sunk by the 3000 AShMs of Xi Jingping isn't

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Because she's incapable of defending herself against a modern anti ship warfare threat

[night heart]

if you were to build a new new jersey how would you build it ?

[spring briar]

not

[desert agate]

And even if you tried to make her capable, you wouldn't fit an AEGIS on her no matter how hard you tried

Or CRAM

[night heart]

c ram is totally possible

[desert agate]

Or LRAAMs

[night heart]

aegis might not eb

[spring briar]

cover her from head to toe in electronic warfare equipment and use her as a fast support for drone carriers

[maiden citrus]

it'd be best to choose missouri for such things anyway

[desert agate]

Just build a DDG, infinitely more capable than a refit Iowa could ever be outside of... niche coastal bombardment

[night heart]

hey , can hypersonic missiles penetrate thriugh new jerseys , main belt ?>

[maiden citrus]

most are not designed to

but getting mission killed is really easy now

[night heart]

there sheer speed makes them penetrate

[desert agate]

Missiles don't penetrate armour

[tough quail]

lewis gun ciws when

[maiden citrus]

because the hit rates of missiles are so much higher if you don't kill them

[spring briar]

you underestimate 12" of steel

[desert agate]

But if NJ took any hit from a modern AShM shed eat shit so hard she'd never be seeing combat again

[tough quail]

well missiles DO penetrate armor, just not modern AShMs. at least not battleship levels of armor

[night heart]

thats what am saying , will enough inches of steel be able to defens against hyersonic stuff ?

[maiden citrus]

citadel would live, ship would be helpless

[spring briar]

that depends entirely on what is going hypersonic

[spiral cedar]

Some missile warheads are of the scale where a direct hit to a piece of armor plate could well just dislodge it bodily into the ship itself

[tough quail]

all you'd need to do is actually spec them to punch through armor which isnt hard at all

[spring briar]

at hypersonic speeds the impact force might just crack the plate

but I doubt it

[spiral cedar]

Depends on the warhead

[tough quail]

or hell you could just grab old 1950s vintage bullshit and fire it

[desert agate]

No because modern missile targeting systems don't target the area where a ships main belt is located, they intentionally target upper works and missile emplacements to cause as much crew damage as possible

[spring briar]

granit spam

[spiral cedar]

https://twitter.com/skylancer7441/status/1244492142002790400?s=20

Artem Beliakov (@skylancer7441)

article on new developments in warheads for cruiser missiles to defeat hard targets such as underground bunkers and aircraft shelters
from #JIDR Jane's International Defense Review 1998-01

with mentions on KE penetrators and Multiple Warhead Systems (MWS), TDA/TDW Mephisto,

Twitter · Mar 30, 2020, 5:10 AM

Take a gander at these

Penetrations measured in meters of concrete

With a follow-through bomb to destroy what's behind the armor

And this is 80s tech

[maiden citrus]

of the iowas, iowa is in by far the worst condition (lots of bad), then new jersey (lots of turret mechanisms are welded over), then wisconsin, then missouri (missouri could not be considered a historic landmark because she was modernized well and in working condition)

[spring briar]

guys we need to recommission USS Texas

[ivory ridge]

so true+

[spring briar]

fills starboard torpedo bulge and reaches perfect 90° elevation

[maiden citrus]

texasu advanced gunno system???!

[spiral cedar]

Restart 14" AP Mark 16 production

[spring briar]

texas however failed to take into account the Coriolis effect, meaning that its shells didn't kill itself, but landed somewhere 15 miles off target in a parking lot

[chilly osprey]

The thin armor protection of modern warships means the time is ripe for the re-introduction of armored cruisers with quick-firing guns.

[spring briar]

tsushima time

[chilly osprey]

And since the world is moving away from fossil fuel, that means there will be plenty of spare high-quality coal for their propulsion.

[maiden citrus]

wait what's that, on the horizon

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

Blub blub

[spring briar]

[strong plank]

yeah reactivating an Iowa and expecting it to perform well in a modern conflict would be a shitshow

[spiral cedar]

Technically, anti-narcosub duties are modern conflicts

[strong plank]

well I guess that's one way to discourage the drug trade

[spring briar]

16" SHS vs narcosub command tower

[strong plank]

but yeah it'd be like

[frigid karma]

can't be much worse than the independences

[jovial elm]

Opinions on the grippen

[strong plank]

it's like issuing mosins to draftees and expecting them to do well against a modern adversary

[frigid karma]

it's alright

[somber knoll]

but, but mah missiles :Kappa:

[strong plank]

wait a minute

[frigid karma]

treading a fine line here regal

luckily such a ridiculous thing would never happen

[spiral cedar]

Good plane but shoved into a very competitive market by its company

[strong plank]

I know right

nobody's that stupid

[frigid karma]

Gripen is praised too much and shat on too much

[jovial elm]

Ikr

[spring briar]

Austro-Hungary in 1914
was unironically worse than that

[frigid karma]

she's an alright plane but always compared to an f-35

[tough quail]

is it really though

[chilly osprey]

It gets compared to the F-35 because Saab markets it as if it was an alternative to an F-35

[somber knoll]

what about SKS? that thing is a bit fool-proof to present-day draftees but still, WW2 semi-autos vs modern rifles is stretching it so much

[tough quail]

i almost virtually never hear anyone talk about the gripen without someone either immediately showing up to chestbeat about the F-35

or the whole conversation being about shitting on it compared to the F-35

[spring briar]

you know the 1 rifle per few men myth about the soviets in ww2?
that's Austro-Hungary in 1914

[tough quail]

that's not a myth doe

the rest just got SMGs

[chilly osprey]

Otherwise, the natural comparison for the Gripen should be things like the Eurofighter, Rafale, modern F-16 versions, etc.

[spring briar]

locks horse in a small box

[tough quail]

cant hear you over out producing the rest of the world in submachine guns baybeeeeeee

[somber knoll]

Virgin Tommies vs Chad Peepshies.

[chilly osprey]

In which case the Gripen in the C/D versions is a cheaper, smaller, but less capable competitor to those types, while the Gripen E compares much more favorably with them, though not quite at the same tier, and loses the price advantage

[tough quail]

beware the might of the peepeepoopoo

[spring briar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pee_Pee_Creek

[spiral cedar]

In another server I'm in some dude left the server because he couldn't bear the idea that the F-35/Gripen competition in his country hadn't been rigged against the Gripen

[tough quail]

lmfao

[chilly osprey]

lmao

[somber knoll]

btw, how's the comparison between the Eurofighter vs the Rafale? in terms of regular metrics as well as CV compatibility?

[tough quail]

jet wankers, the worst of all subhumans

[tough quail]

typhoon more like shytephoon

🥖 🥖 🥖

[frigid karma]

And the a-10, the worst among those subhumans

[chilly osprey]

If you're going to get into a Typhoon vs Rafale debate, wear a hazmat suit first

[spiral cedar]

Someone should name their Typhoon the Halsey

[tough quail]

lmao

[spring briar]

USS Honda point

[frigid karma]

What about "the kamikaze"

[somber knoll]

hazmat+depressure suits already on btw

[spiral cedar]

Bad juju

[chilly osprey]

Would have been the natural name for the carrier-launched variation

[frigid karma]

was halsey's typhoon his fault or the fault of his meteorologists

[spiral cedar]

Eurofighter better because they missed the chance to name Rafale after the ninja turtle

[spiral cedar]

He was warned

[frigid karma]

ic

[tough quail]

if you need to ask its probably halseys fault

[spiral cedar]

Inb4 Halsey caused Pearl Harbor by not being in port that day to strike back at the Kido Butai

[somber knoll]

They can name it not just one but two ninja turtles btw (since Da Vinci had the French King as his patron later in life)

[chilly osprey]

They should name the radars after different TMNT's

Because Europe manages to have two different upgrade programs for the Typhoon's radar going at the same time

[spring briar]

rafale is a french word for sudden, brisk wind

basically fart

[spiral cedar]

Sudden divine wind

I wonder

What was the color scheme of most Kamikazes

Green?

[chilly osprey]

Before or after impact?

[spiral cedar]

During

[spring briar]

invisible due to blueshift to UV

[tender monolith]

[spiral cedar]

Relativistic kamikazes

[tender monolith]

i don't think they were that fast lmao

[jovial elm]

Wut

[spiral cedar]

https://astro.ucla.edu/~wright/doppler.htm

[spring briar]

I want to close the bandgap between us

drinks an energy drink

[maiden citrus]

happy valentines day

I have no immunity zone to you dear

sincerely

[humble mulch]

Land based zeros were more commonly green

[spiral cedar]

You have a beautiful glow, like Neon
I always wish to rise higher, like Helium
Unfortunately there is absolutely no chemistry between us

[spiral cedar]

Fluorine is cheating

You know that

[spring briar]

that EN value do be strong

[spiral cedar]

Favorite noble gas compound is still helium hydride

[spiral cedar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/586627596884901898/810806117348147200/image0.jpg

[spring briar]

HeH

[maiden citrus]

oh yeah I remember these

[spring briar]

get out of here with your super energetic supernova cloud shit jaba

we live on a low enthalpy world

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586627596884901898/810799189205450752/image0.jpg

[delicate beacon]

hot

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/shy-lily-gif-24953018

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586627596884901898/810815041314095114/prot.png

[ivory ridge]

we already have Leonardo afterall

also why does Leonardo call all its radars "Kronos"

[chilly osprey]

iirc the reason is because they're a common family of AESA panels, for the most part.

But scaled up or down or in different bands depending on the type

Hence why MFRA is 'Kronos Grand', but EMPAR isn't called 'Kronos' at all

[rapid junco]

Funny you said that
Today's Valentines Day here in Brazil

[somber knoll]

https://i.redd.it/epio7o6y8p281.jpg When you didn't give Essex her jets, you give her Ospreys instead

[spring briar]

le boys with the underwater shell

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szwm6KyaNR0

Ohno

[dusty kraken]

IS-7 not stronk enough

[tough quail]

well i would hope the most powerful tank gun in the world mounted on a tank a decade newer would get through

[spring briar]

Barely

[spiral cedar]

120mm L1 (Tungsten Carbide core APDS) at 1410 m/s

vs

230mm 260 BHN cast armor at 36 degrees. IS-7 turret, less sloped area near the mantlet.

120mm Ordnance QF gun muzzle velocity - 1493 m/s. 1350 m/s refers to a distance of approximately 0.8 km.

In general you run pen sims close to the ballistic limit anyway

And then figure out what range that corresponds to

When angle of fall doesn't matter/is ignored

[tough quail]

oh wait yeah thats uh

...

yeesh

that should be better

[spring briar]

Can someone add a speech bubble to this?

Pls

[tender monolith]

do you not have gimp\

[maiden citrus]

I may later

not on right computer to do so atm

[spring briar]

1000 mps

[spring briar]

Not on pc rn

[delicate beacon]

French were trying to counter that with Alsace? But they already had a Richelieu that countered it.

[spring briar]

Dunkerque actually

[delicate beacon]

hmm no, there were only two dunkerques and she was preoccupied countering sharnies and biskos at the same time

[spiral cedar]

You mean like this?

[spring briar]

Hell, by ww2 even Paris and Courbet had shell that count pierce their underwater defences

[spring briar]

More like this

[spiral cedar]

Or the transparent discord template type

[tough quail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/552788046161117184/981922992571432980/romania.gif

like this

[spring briar]

Thx horse

Yes

[delicate beacon]

waitwaitwait

[spring briar]

Hmm?

[delicate beacon]

ah heck

transparency got lost

[tender monolith]

ahahaha

[spring briar]

[delicate beacon]

perfection

[spiral cedar]

Done by hand

[humble mulch]

what is that shell going through

[spiral cedar]

Puberty

[tender monolith]

a fort maybe?

dohoho

[spring briar]

Thx jaba

[spring briar]

Steel plate

Finland

[frigid karma]

notices his bulge

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

C’mon

As if you don’t get excited when you see a fine warship

[frigid karma]

this is the ALO server

i think everyone is

[silver crest]

how controversial is the marching song "Erika"

i heard only werhbs like that song

or something

ngl it's kinda catchy

lyrics are wholesome but im wondering if it's rooted in any shady stuff

[humble mulch]

Pretty sure it's from ww1?

So it's fine, but because it's catchy it's applied to like every nazi Germany video and thus isn't very good cause how is related/helping nazi proganda

[silver crest]

apparently it was first published in 1938

[cinder escarp]

260 BHN seems oddly low, even for cast armor of that age.

[rapid junco]

My country uses the melody of Panzerlied as the "Anthem of the Armoured Corps"

[cinder escarp]

Soviet cast steels of the time were between 270 and 340 BHN.

[silver crest]

erika is kinda overrated

there are a lot of german marching songs that i feel deserve more attention

[rapid junco]

Like Muss i denn?

[strong plank]

👀

[ivory ridge]

WT players on their way to ask gaijin to add them

[tender monolith]

and leaking classified docs on them

[ivory ridge]

[tough quail]

me trying to bleach my eyeballs after gd made a future science abrams even uglier than the one in bf2042

https://twitter.com/xmszeon/status/1535978085111058433/photo/2 pls no

vpn test (@xmszeon)

Ngen Abrams

Likes

125

Twitter · Jun 12, 2022, 1:31 PM

[strong plank]

looks like it’s gonna be focused on connectivity with drones and other autonomous systems

[ivory ridge]

GD: unveils new abrams
Rheinmetall: 130mm armed tank
Iveco: look ma', new logo

[tender monolith]

that barely even counts as a logo lmao

[humble mulch]

I hate minimalism

[strong plank]

ngl green Abrams looks nice

[shrewd pecan]

still can't find anything official on the "new abrams"

[strong plank]

https://www.gdls.com/innovation.html

[tough quail]

no for real though what the genuine fuck is that front end

it's so painfully obvious its just built to look cool so cumgrass will fund it

[shrewd pecan]

I don't think its actual General Dynamic's work

idk they were looking at having 2 crewmembers in the hull, 2 in the turret

[ivory ridge]

Dat RWS tho

[shrewd pecan]

NLOS capability for tanks with switchblade loitering munitions

idk thing as I said doesn't seem real, nothing from actual general Dynamics

[fierce sparrow]

I was expected GDLS using Light tank as a reference on the supposed "New Abrams"
Just as Rheinmetall did to KF41 to KF51 "Panther".

[tough quail]

its literally on their site my guy

[tough quail]

^^^^^^^^^

[shrewd pecan]

why the fuck

is there no reporting on it

nor any direct news posts on any of their sites

nothing on the Land Systems news

[strong plank]

it was just added within the last 24 hours

[shrewd pecan]

guessing we'll see more this October then

[tough quail]

im just impressed the silhouette and render looks more fake than a PL-01

[fierce sparrow]

geez... where is the SepV4

[shrewd pecan]

SEPV4 is already out

or well not in service

but far enough along

[strong plank]

Wonder if this’ll be sepv5 then, or something bigger

[fierce sparrow]

[ivory ridge]

no, it's a whole new thing

[strong plank]

m1a3 time?

[shrewd pecan]

either M1A3 or Abrams replacement

[fierce sparrow]

Abrams replacement? highly unlikely
More improvements to the Abrams is what Im thinking now.

[shrewd pecan]

idk it might as well be with the amount of changes on that tank

[fierce sparrow]

https://vxtwitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1535981806847004674/2

https://tenor.com/view/angry-blade-runner-2049-ryan-gosling-anger-gif-16634156

me right now..

[strong plank]

someone on NCD brightened the image

[ivory ridge]

there is this but idk how much of it is real
https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1535476336067682305

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

@ramlaen1 @2805662 @EliLea1 @DTRmag Next Gen Abrams will be a new design instead of SEPv4 upgrade. New turret is operated remotely and adds an autoloader. The gunner's iGPS/3G FLIR has been replaced by new PASEO sight. The 30x113 mm RS6 RWS is controlled independently, unlike SEPv4's CSWS which is coaxial with CPS.

Twitter · Jun 11, 2022, 4:17 AM

[fierce sparrow]

I honestly thought this new Stryker is based on the LAV700 that the US Military tested it back in 2021.

[ivory ridge]

30mm RWS

[shrewd pecan]

it probably is

[ivory ridge]

[shrewd pecan]

they've been testing LAV-700 with the 50 MM

tho crewless turret abrams just sounds bad

[strong plank]

I feel like they’d make the turret much smaller if it was crewless

[ivory ridge]

i meaaan

yesnt?

look at the Armata and how much of the turret is actually used

[strong plank]

Depends on the autoloader I guess

[shrewd pecan]

I don't see a third hatch on the hull

so I doubt its crewless turret

unless I'm just being blind

which I might be

since the driver seems to have a view port

without a hatch

idk I don't think the crewless turret is a good trade off, especially when they can just do the 2 crewmembers in the turret, 2 in the hull

[tough quail]

that sounds like it solves exactly no problems

[ivory ridge]

turret armor: none

[tough quail]

its a test bed

[ivory ridge]

yes

i know

but

the turret is still "normal sized"

because of the armor

and other stuff inside

[tough quail]

oh

yeah

the turret is always going to be big

[ivory ridge]

plus iirc

the MTTB had a hull ammo rack

an autoloaded abrams would be like the lecler or type 10 behind the turret

[tough quail]

the only reason the armatas isn't bigger is because the ammo is still in the hull, wholly cut off from the crew

[ivory ridge]

which also makes it bigger

t-14 without turret cover

[tough quail]

man the more i think about it

the half/half crew split is

so fucking stupid

it's the true peak of needlessly complicated bullshit

just build a real new tank, kick out the fourth guy and have a functional engineer corps if you're worried about maintenance

[ivory ridge]

[shrewd pecan]

4th crewmember means no need to have a maintenance company follow every tank company tbh

[tough quail]

keeping dudes in the turret at all after watching the javelin boogaloo is pretty yikes

[shrewd pecan]

idk any tank is gonna get fucked by Javelin type attacks

and I'd also argue not having anyone in the turret would worsen situational awareness

[tough quail]

you've got a much better chance of your crew, you know, not being vaporized by just going full crewless

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/515583624083406848/985646361909297172/IMG_9061.gif

remove the turret

[shrewd pecan]

idk no one really has a Javelin equivalent with its stupid attack angle outside of the Chinese

[ivory ridge]

strv 103 for everyone

[tough quail]

they're going to be coming

missiles are uh, a lot faster to develop and to get into service than an mbt

[shrewd pecan]

Russia wise its not really like there in a space to make anything capable of Javelin type top down attack

[tough quail]

as you can see by the worlds inventory still being 90% circa 80s or earlier jank

[shrewd pecan]

idk the type of fights the Abrams would be going into either theaters with few top down attack munitions

or in the case of Chinese where very few abram's are gonna be fighting

[tough quail]

until someone starts exporting them like kornets

and then oopsie woopsie

[strong plank]

I’d also imagine some sort of countermeasure would be in the works

[shrewd pecan]

I'd argue it would be better to just make a APS able to handle Javelin type top down attacks

then worsen situational awareness by not having anyone in the turret

[tough quail]

APS isn't full proof and even top attack missiles are a lot cheaper than MBTs and the associated crew

trophy cant stop javelins and that took fucking ages to get rolling properly

[ivory ridge]

just get more artillery

[tough quail]

and even trophy can get get volley fired

[fierce sparrow]

more Artillery...

[shrewd pecan]

👁️ anti tank artillery shells

[strong plank]

next gen Abrams will have a phalanx bolted to the roof

ez

[fierce sparrow]

don't let me thing about Chally2 with Brimstone missile launcher at the back of the turret.
That's just so wrong on so many levels of tank design...

[ivory ridge]

coaxial Oto 76mm with DART rounds

[tough quail]

just put a fifth guy back in the turret to shoot at missiles with an m4

[strong plank]

horse you need to be more forward thinking