Can I use Jane's armors schemes?
#history
maiden citrus
it gets some ships like one billion inch thick armors, so sure
spiral cedar
10" deck North Carolina here we come
maiden citrus
we want montana NOW
frigid karma
10” deck will give me a 10” d-
[dragged away by tea]
spiral cedar
10” deck will give me a 10” d-
[dragged away by tea]
A 6" D on top of a 4" D?
That'll definitely get you in trouble
frigid karma
Inb4 they actually do have 10” deck and modern blueprints were fake ones to deceive spies
spiral cedar
Well, she is a museum ship...
alpine onyx
And that 16in belt
spiral cedar
In fairness, the official USN estimate is that her belt is equivalent to a vertical 16" belt
So I can't really blame them too much for that one
But a 6" upper deck is just too brainy
unborn wyvern
the one between the Eurofighter and the Gripen is a Super Hornet
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Four_Super_Hornets.jpg
maiden citrus
But a 6" upper deck is just too brainy
let the gift of metacentric height take you higher
remote monolith
let the gift of metacentric height take you higher
spiral cedar
whilst KGV stayed back beyond 10,000 yards, so that her guns would still have a plunging arc
frigid karma
Well, she is a museum ship...
I’m sorry do you run around on museum ships with a hidden steel drill to measure weather deck thicknesses
(Fuck you actually might)
spiral cedar
Well, there’s a reason I couldn’t go on board Iowa for the Azur Lane event…
tender monolith
... did you try to fuck it
spiral cedar
My lawyer advises me to plead the fifth
tender monolith
I see.
spiral cedar
In fact Roma which had a similar top armor of 157mm’s quite similar to Bismarck’s
mmm
no
The King George V class battleships are ton-for-ton the most heavily protected battleships ever made, and in absolute protection second only to the Yamato class battleships
I like how this is wrong even with their premises, because Vanguard existed
tender monolith
How the hell do some of these idiots come up with this shit
spiral cedar
Rivet counters who are good at memorizing numbers
dusty kraken
DO NOT stick your genitalia into a 16in/50 cal Mark 7 gun
spiral cedar
With the right combo of numbers, you can make those conclusions
But numbers alone do not always bring enlightenment
maiden citrus
citation needed
spiral cedar
Remember:
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics
maiden citrus
ton for ton so protected that we can immediately name two other ships the same size better protected
the 6'' deck roma tho
spiral cedar
Over mags 
Remember, it’s okay to assume all enemy attacks will hit your heaviest armor only
strong plank
DO NOT stick your genitalia into a 16in/50 cal Mark 7 gun
don't crush my dreams like that
spiral cedar
There’s no reason to give armor values that are less than the max
maiden citrus
something tells me elsewhere it is much less
spiral cedar
4” over machinery
maiden citrus
so that this is not a convincing number
spiral cedar
DO NOT stick your genitalia into a 16in/50 cal Mark 7 gun
Given people have climbed inside the barrels
Technically
People have already done so
spiral cedar
TA 50
14 - 1369, 37.76/9.48/80.52 - ncp
15 - 1334, 37.81/10.38/79.62 - bfp
...
23 - 1085, 39.08/18.46/71.54 - bfp
24 -
25 - 1037, 39.76/20.71/69.29 - bfp
26 - 1013, 40.12/21.83/68.17 - bfp
27 - 990, 40.48/22.94/67.06 - ncp
28 -
29 - 939, 41.15/25.06/64.94 - ncp
30 - 917, 41.57/26.15/63.85 - ncp
31 - 892, 41.96/27.20/62.80 - cp
-
15k-26k bfp, 31k cp
-
No pen from 0-14k yards, base-first pen from 15k-26k yards, no pen from 27k-30k yards, complete pen from 31k+ yards
This, more than any other reason, is why I hate incremental armor schemes
cinder escarp
I’m sorry do you run around on museum ships with a hidden steel drill to measure...
He brings the portable ultrasound system
junior trench
"it's a girl!"
frigid karma
He brings the portable ultrasound system
How does that measure armor thickness
It can only discover where crewmen would store bodies of their enemies
cinder escarp
Because ultrasounds systems can peer through and get a thickness measurement?
cinder escarp
You do realize that tank autists have been bringing them to measure tanks in museums?
frigid karma
I thought they just gave images of shit like babies
cinder escarp
tender monolith
Lmfao
cinder escarp
Here's a chieftain that they used the ultrasound on in a bunch of places
It was developed for ships
frigid karma
These are nominal thicknesses?
cinder escarp
Those are the raw thickness of material, non LoS yes
maiden citrus
Wait they can measure thickness?
yes, I use ultrasound at work to see how full liquid containers are
it's very flexible
spring briar
me when a 12” shell ricochets off the water and is heading for my fighting post
I get shredded
delicate beacon
You become the dinosaur
spring briar
in fact, i get so shredded that I pick the shell from the air and throw it back, detonating the enemy magazine
spiral cedar
Must’ve put the powder mags over the shell rooms
spring briar
The sheer heat of my return throw caused the air to super heat, detonating the powder
Relativistic shell
My throw however caused an air burst which vaporised most of my own fleet
@tough quail
lesgoooo
spring briar
hardened baguette dispenser
spiral cedar
@tough quail can you explain this
tough quail
when having 120mm AP from the highest energy tank gun in the world isnt enough, the french decide it needs to be reloaded in six fucking seconds
dapper parcel
yes, I use ultrasound at work to see how full liquid containers are
Ultrasound is very common in shipyard to QC weld quality
We use gamma ray from Cobalt-60 to NDT pressure vessel 
fierce sparrow
Imagine modernized the damn AMX-50... in 2010+ -ish time period.
spring briar
so the leclerc?
fierce sparrow
I was thinking adding RWS and APS...
Putting some modular armor...
But trimmed the weight down abit
As if you still like the Oscillating turret
oh and add a newer 120 gun and some FCS by Thales
tough quail
or the funny 140mm leclerc for the overkill gun
dapper parcel
Would an unmanned gun-only "turret" counts as oscillating turret or does it need to have the magazine oscillating with the gun elevation 
fierce sparrow
unmanned turret... on an AMX-50
Damn... beating the Russians early for unmanned turret
dapper parcel
Well, AMX-13 is already halfway there
I don't think AMX-50 was significantly different
maiden citrus
the bitch-11
spring briar
fierce sparrow
ok... maybe I just imagining turning AMX-50 into a French Armata...
spring briar
cinder escarp
Non, Leclerc is AMX-56 )))
desert agate
@spring briar first French tank I've ever seen in person
spring briar
is that a tank?
desert agate
Tankette
That one specifically was abandoned in Norway before being found and brought to this museum
spring briar
very smol and cute
dapper parcel
Renault UE
desert agate
406mm shell
spring briar
isn't the biggest shell a 600mm shell from karl gerat?
the one on the right looks like a 406
desert agate
The placard was wrong rip
spring briar
desert agate
I wonder what ship this came off
tender monolith
My German ain't great
'In the 30th year in the Reichsmarine ???
And of/from Torpedo Boat ???
Caliber 105mm'
alpine onyx
Probably a 1923 to 1937 type Fleet Torpedoboat
Which doesn't narrow it down that much given the volume of these ships
Can exclude the 1939s, the pre dreads and Emden tho, as it's not HA
tender monolith
I haven't got a clue what eingefuehrt or verwandet mean unfortunately
I'm not about to try to type an umlaut on my phone ok
tender monolith
Aha
alpine onyx
Eingeführt can also mean inserted, but that would only apply in the ecchi/hentai genre
tender monolith
Lmao
alpine onyx
tender monolith
So basically either the museum this is at had no idea what particular boat it came from or no one cared enough to note it
'Torpedo Boat 6969'
Good enough as any
dapper parcel
Eingeführt
I love it when what looks like a digraph isn't actually a digraph
manic latch
spring briar
from Emden?
desert agate
Most important piece from the museum that the 105mm gun pic is from
Yeee
It's tall
alpine onyx
the motor they developed for Z-51 and that I dream of at night
alpine onyx
The 15,000hp Diesel motor
alpine onyx
humble mulch
desert agate
I'm leaving the museum now
alpine onyx
spring briar
I found a gloucsefeerzter meteor engine in the basement of my university
spring briar
is that the russian concorde clone
desert agate
Yeah
spring briar
well ig it was technically first
alpine onyx
big chungus
spring briar
your voice is somehow australian
desert agate
Whoa really
desert agate
Yeah they got an imax theatre here
It's cool but I fell asleep during the ocean thing mainly because it was in German without subtitles
maiden citrus
hit voice
maiden citrus
desert agate
My knowledge of German is basic at best
spring briar
I've just found out that USS Enterprise looks like a very long Béarn and now I'm basically scared
desert agate
@chilly flower I call upon thee and request the aid of the aircraft recognition god
What is this plane?
My best guess is Victor but
I doubt it
Had this on the side
spring briar
HMMM
dusty kraken
lead and mislead
dapper parcel
How could someone not recognize a Nimrod?
I don't think that hull profile is used anywhere else
desert agate
I-
Didn't think of it
I was confused
The only nimrod I know is the Hawker nimrod
dapper parcel
I guess this particular airframe is XW665
jovial elm
opinions?
delicate beacon
Are you WW1 Germany?
tender monolith
no units make this annoying as piss to read
delicate beacon
What is this, rtw?
tender monolith
are you trying to simultaneously trigger as many people as possible jord
is that what this is
desert agate
Either put on wing turrets or don't built it until you get B
delicate beacon
AX twins or bust.
dapper parcel
Also seriously? AXY?
AWY is lightest configuration in RTW
B and X gets barbette tax
jovial elm
a coal fired battlecruiser with 3x2 15cm guns?
"
jovial elm
Are you WW1 Germany?
France
jovial elm
Also seriously? AXY?
No superimposed tech
tender monolith
ok cool
jovial elm
1906
tender monolith
i suppose 3x2 15cm battlecruiser doesn't make any goddamned sense anyway
jovial elm
kek
tender monolith
no main batteries at all
secondary and tertiary guns only
think of the weight savings
dusty kraken
Nobody will expect you to use a gigantic battering ram in the 20th century so it'll probably work
alpine onyx
Build your ships with barbettes and magazine spaces, but no turrets
Easily fits treaties
Then when needed you drop in the turrets and you get a fully functional ship
tender monolith
devious
tough quail
im kind of surprised nobody ever just made a battlecruiser with shitloads of armor and tons of regular 8" guns as some dumb cruiser smiting brick
i mean its stupid
but im surprised nobody did it
tender monolith
alpine onyx
We can drop in the 355mm gun there
tender monolith
or alerted by the horse in this case
alpine onyx
Just you see
dusty kraken
How about this
We take a boat a label it as a ship and then build an actual ship around it without treaty limits
🧠
spring briar
let's use aluminium
dapper parcel
im kind of surprised nobody ever just made a battlecruiser with shitloads of arm...
Weight stipulation: Am I a joke to you?
tough quail
yes
dapper parcel
Everyone barely made an actually floating cruiser within limit, imagine putting armor
tough quail
by that i mean like
an actual battlecruiser sized capital ship with just a stupid amount of 8" guns
again, very stupid, but a trap im surprised nobody fell into
dapper parcel
I guess that might actually happen had Tsushima never happened
manic latch
im kind of surprised nobody ever just made a battlecruiser with shitloads of arm...
But. Why do that when you can build more cruisers
Why build a ship with 20 203mm if you can build 2 cruiser with 10 203mm each
dapper parcel
or if Pakenham had taken some splinter straight on the face
tough quail
But. Why do that when you can build more cruisers
why did germany want to build the Spahkreuzer?
naval design is not the land of the sane
tough quail
this is after they rejected all treaties and told the british to eat dick
the spahkreuzers were in the same building program as the whole h-class
manic latch
Yeah no clue
manic latch
Novgorod
dapper parcel
I seriously think that had the treaty didn't made CA "the next best thing you can build that isn't BB", every Navy eventually will just build BBs and CLs
spring briar
the spahkreuzer makes sense as a scouting cruiser
but sadly the KM was nowhere near the size it needed to be to use them effectively
so
tough quail
except >seakeeping
manic latch
Soviets: Casually goes with Soyuz construction since they weren't in treaty. Yet keeps it secret
tough quail
they're at this perfect design and tonnage crossroad to be simultaneously
poorly armed
horrendous seakeeping
overarmed relative to that seakeeping
virtually completely unprotected
dapper parcel
Essentially Konigsberg pt.2 huh?
tough quail
they're gonna end up getting the z23 treatment of just being unable to reload their guns in the atlantic
tough quail
the 6" armed destroyers were horribly difficult to reload due to the horrendous seakeeping and stability
they weren't literally impossible to reload
dapper parcel
Nothing new with KM's light cruiser
tough quail
but it was really hard
dapper parcel
look at their technical record
tough quail
and completely negated the firepower jump and then some
dapper parcel
it's awful
manic latch
émile bertin on the other hand
Why she is slower than Kirov? 
spring briar
she isn't tho?
tough quail
"what if we made something even worse than this"
manic latch
she isn't tho?
Like sure trial speed says 40. But why normal speed is slower
36 vs 34
spring briar
the kirovs are 2k tons heavier
dapper parcel
be careful with speed at what load condition
manic latch
the kirovs are 2k tons heavier
Yeah 9 180mm vs 9 152mm 
tough quail
yeah emile is about 3k tons lighter at full load
spring briar
have you seen how cramped the kirov turrets are krem
spring briar
I doubt the turrets are that much heavier
manic latch
have you seen how cramped the kirov turrets are krem
Yeah. Fix to those turrets were Donskoi's 180mm design we see in wows 
And Bagration that is
spring briar
too heavy
tough quail
nevermind emiles turrets are literally half the weight
spring briar
lolw
manic latch
Kirov is 113k while 3k difference
spring briar
that's pretty darn heavy then
tough quail
chapayevs turrets were nearly identical in weight btw
daily reminder the kirovs should have just been rearmed with those
spring briar
also don't forget the kirov's actually have armor
which is the main difference here
manic latch
Ah fuck I forget the armor
spring briar
emile just needs to operate with the DD's
tough quail
yeah emiles lighter on armor
alpine onyx
Re: Spähkreuzers, from what I can tell they suck as hard as they do because they wanted to cramp way too much into them
spring briar
if you want a comparison
maybe la gal but then again she has much more armor and still has 152's
spring briar
manic latch
daily reminder the kirovs should have just been rearmed with those
Soviets had plan to arm Tallinn with 12 180mm or 12 152mm (Chapa guns) after the war.
But 180mm production was stopped and 1 ship wasn't worth to start it again. And 152mm refit would be too expensive that you could have bought another Sverdlov for same money. Thus Tallinn stayed with no refit
alpine onyx
Long range, the entire midship hull is stiffened with armor, 35kn speed and a catapult
alpine onyx
They're not as bad as Leipzig I guess
manic latch
I dislike how much they buffed elbing in wows
Flamu: DEAD ON ARRIVLA BECAUSE WG HATES GERMANS
tough quail
see the thing is
leipzig is a mid 1920s design
nearly every cruiser in the world was a piece of shit
manic latch
weegee: here have some more german bb's
tough quail
the spahkreuzers being late 30s is humiliatingly poor
alpine onyx
That I hold against the Spähs
tough quail
they're some of the absolute worst ships designed past 1930, if not the worst period
dapper parcel
Other nation managed to build CLs that didn't fall apart just by floating around in 1920 tho
alpine onyx
But Leipzig is like, really bad as a second gen
manic latch
Soviets: Why you guys call light cruisers as heavy cruisers
spring briar
speaking of heavy cruisers
I found more stalingrad pictures
manic latch
tough quail
gib gib
manic latch
How
tough quail
place stoolgrade directly into my brain
manic latch
Dunkerque is a heavy cruiser for Soviets
I think
tough quail
should be
same general idea as kronshtadt, just hyperfocused on fisting panzerschiffes specifically
manic latch
Izmail was the true battlecruiser for Soviets 
spring briar
manic latch
spring briar
like, two good cruiser killer designs
cries in 17500 t french cruiser killer
tough quail
russian and for some reason also polish forums seem to be like
an infinite trove of naval history
a good 80% of detailed diagrams ive seen outside of books and museums are in Cyrillic
dapper parcel
There's a lot of technical naval book in Polish for some reason
manic latch
an infinite trove of naval history
Exactly. Found 1949 design of Stalingrad like that
It's Petro with 305mm guns
tough quail
thats trippy
manic latch
Brennus bussy 
tough quail
kremlin no
delicate beacon
You say that
tough quail
the kgb has been digging into foreign navies of the last century in case any irl shipgirl shenanigans actually comes to fruition
spring briar
french forums are still the best ofc but
delicate beacon
But the only thing out of Russian media I've found is a Celebes with random AA guns and barbetteturrets penetrating the entire thing.
tough quail
got to be prepared in case algerie or saratoga are suddenly a viable combatant again
spring briar
I hope Kremlin will love Tsesarevich one day
manic latch
French Navy destroyer D621 "Surcouf" after a collision with the Soviet tanker "General Bocharov" on June 6, 1971 in the Mediterranean Sea
tough quail
why must the things i love destroy each other
spring briar
Horse
manic latch
manic latch
I hope Kremlin will love Tsesarevich one day
Perhaps
manic latch
Pamiat vibes 
tough quail
thats just a dick
spring briar
one day kremlin, you will see why the russians lost at tsushima
manic latch
If only Soyuz was teleported there
spring briar
and it's not because of their ships
tough quail
i think there's like 70 different reasons you're gonna need to be specific
if you told me all of the turret crews were suddenly attacked by snakes i would believe you
manic latch
Admiral dreadnought challenge needed
1 Soyuz vs Japanese fleet of Tsushima
spring briar
biggest reason is the long voyage of the 2nd ps and japanese use of blackpowder filled HE
manic latch
spring briar
comparing the battle of tsushima to that of the yellow sea, it becomes clear
tough quail
i love soyuz but its togo
i think he'd just board her and fight the crew if he has to
tough quail
ah yes
the butterfly effect of the turn of the century IJN capturing a completed Soyuz thrown back into the past
manic latch
tough quail
shits gonna get weird
manic latch
<:Blessex:753375684126310451>
spring briar
Kremlin the borodino's would've shrugged off the Japanese fleet if the crew had simply been given the tools and time to properly maintain them
like how they were able to properly maintain Tsesarevich in Port Arthur and how she was barely scratched at tsushima
manic latch
spring briar
please
bayan got shot by japanese 11" mortars directed from hill 203
and was a fine ship
manic latch
spring briar
RIP admiral makarov and admiral vitgeft
had they not died we would not have sakura empire today
but maybe sakura union
don't cry krem
Oslyabaya wouldn't have wanted that
she wanted you to be happy
manic latch
manic latch
On positive side
Tsushima loss is one of things going for revolution
Sovetsky Soyuz wouldn't exist without Soviet Union
so Tsushima loss actually created her
spring briar
uhhh
manic latch
It gotta influenced Soyuz in some way
spring briar
you know Gangut has 152mm barbettes and 75mm turret roof yes?
manic latch
As I remember. Gangut has lessons from Tsushima. But not sure what lessons
spring briar
if anything she was a lesson what not to do in Soyuz
spring briar
vibes in bayesian statistics telling how fucked the british could've been
spiral cedar
I’m pretty sure a lack of advantageous loss ratio at Jutland would somewhat nullify the morale advantages of a draw at Doggystyle Bank
manic latch
i love soyuz but its togo
spring briar
ok but
who says dogger bank would've been a draw
actually
as long as the british don't fix their safe ammunition handling they're gonna have a hugely skewed loss ratio
spiral cedar
Loss of 1 UK BC, loss of 1 IG ACR, end of that squadron’s raiding? Seems like a draw argument could be made
tough quail
ah yes
spring briar
since at that point it just becomes a battle of who gets the most hits as close to the turrets/mags as possible
tough quail
divination through borscht
spring briar
losing a BC to an ACR would be rather devastating to the RN imo
ofc that should never happen with the proper safety procedures
spring briar
but it still feels like a phyrric victory for the germans
tough quail
im with jaba here, tipping the british off to the cordite problem before jutland is
going to be very
very bad
spring briar
but after listening to drach's 1918 showdown between the RN and HSF I was rather bewildered
spiral cedar
losing a BC to an ACR would be rather devastating to the RN imo
You’ll find people saying Denmark Strait was a British operational victory because it stopped the convoy attack plans 
spring briar
alpine onyx
Where is that talk of how the British ships gangbanged the Germans at Denmark Strait
tough quail
it was an operational victory because it put the fear of god into the kriegsmarine
spring briar
also, drach literally added an extra luck stat to HMS NZ
spiral cedar
“Let’s never do this again”
tough quail
spiral cedar
also, drach literally added an extra luck stat to HMS NZ
“Renown gets an extra accuracy bonus”
spring briar
and the wildest bs he added was that the british bc line was again shooting in the wrong order
like
???
hello
every single man on board of the BC's would've had it drilled in their skulls to only engage their respective opposite targets
tough quail
alpine onyx
oh look, someone finally dropped their brain on the floor and actually asked that question
spiral cedar
She probably did, temporarily, due to fires melting the insulation off
spiral cedar
But probably not what was meant
spiral cedar
exposed by leaving the citadel to go to the rangefinders
Rangefinders should be in the main belt smh
alpine onyx
do rangefinding with hydrophones
spiral cedar
Eat carrots, obtain Mark II eyeballs
spiral cedar
Or as the British would do, the turret rangefinders should be the primary
“But the top rangefinders are unprotected!”
“The main rangefinders will be in the turrets.”
“Oh, I see. So they’ll be armored?”
…
“You’ll armor your turrets, right?”
tough quail
jovial elm
https://tenor.com/view/shy-lily-vtuber-orca-wink-gif-24902216
Who dis, design is cool
spring briar
Shylily
spiral cedar
Brezhnev
tough quail
lmfao
tough quail
mm right there that right there sure is some history yes sir
spiral cedar
Think you skipped a few steps
spring briar
part 3
eating seal
spring briar
part 4
disrupting submarine radars
spiral cedar
part 5
revenge of the sonars
frigid karma
Oh shit it’s the commie trained dolphins
remote monolith
babe wake up new gigantic Spinosaurid is discovered https://twitter.com/TetZoo/status/1534856738989645826?t=3By6YiFQDr-Zgm6rt-5rgA&s=19
Twitter
and its the Brits that got em
frigid karma
babe wake up new gigantic Spinosaurid is discovered https://twitter.com/TetZoo/s...
Actual history lmao
spiral cedar
So baboons are better waifus than humans
spring briar
possibly
spiral cedar
#prehistory 
remote monolith
ah sweet, this Spinosaurid is suspected to be the biggest theropod ever found in Europe too
spiral cedar
What’s a theropod?
spiral cedar
Theropod
remote monolith
any 2 legged dinosaurs basically, avian or non avian
spring briar
theropod needs therapy
spiral cedar
bords
remote monolith
spiral cedar
But why
spring briar
305 i think
frigid karma
Wait
dusty kraken
when are we getting 1000mm torps
dusty kraken
im no ship expert but this just looks dumb for some reason
dusty kraken
why are there ww1 casemates in there
spiral cedar
Someone saw Spee and thought, why not stretch her to add 3 more oversize turrets
frigid karma
If this bitch gets added to pr5 I will build her for the sole purpose of throwing her into arbiter fights and watch her die
frigid karma
Someone saw Spee and thought, why not stretch her to add 3 more oversize turrets
These are 350 mm guns
spring briar
take Mackensen
spiral cedar
Yes
spring briar
stretch it
put an extra aft turret
widen it
put an extra barrel per gun
tadaa
strong plank
Those turrets look so smushed
spring briar
manic latch
I will tell you now Richy
Pr5 will have Germans again even 2 if WG keeps adding Germans ships like this
spring briar
it still doesn't exist
frigid karma
No like
spring briar
it's completely turret swapped
frigid karma
As a napkin
ivory ridge
I'm coping and seething spain is getting a CR
frigid karma
Wait what
ivory ridge
Pls not steel pls not steel
manic latch
Tier?
ivory ridge
10 duh
manic latch
Holy fuck that bow 
spring briar
basically a re-hulled CR
frigid karma
Inb4 Spain gets their first ur and it’s a cr
manic latch
Soviet style bow= my respect
spring briar
"soviet style bow"
frigid karma
Isn’t it Italian
spring briar
it's a cruiser bow
ivory ridge
spring briar
ivory ridge
the rest looks new
Close enough, still coping
spring briar
Yeah
spring briar
It’s just a game after all
midnight ore
it sure is
frigid karma
Honestly, there’s faker
spiral cedar
Womp womp
junior trench
never ask a woman her age, or what an SHS looks like under the ballistic cap
spring briar
This is on NJ fyi
spiral cedar
Never ask
A ship her age
A shell its weight
Or Tone what she did with the passengers of SS Behar in March 1944
spiral cedar
All the better to penetrate the French with(?)
spring briar
Your comment has been noted
Also found a pic of the elusive british 13.5” apc
Its taking a nap
silver crest
i keep forgetting that americans back then had british accents
when exactly did americans sound like modern americans and not british
strong plank
The British accent didn’t really become a thing until around the industrial revolution
iirc
silver crest
unborn wyvern
also the "Americans" didn't see them as such until after the revolution. when Paul revere went on his famous ride he yelled "The regulars are comming out!" Regulars being the british army, because people in the US colonies saw themselves as British subjects protesting/revolting against unfair tax laws
maiden citrus
im kind of surprised nobody ever just made a battlecruiser with shitloads of arm...
does a like 18,000 ton anchorage armed ship in the late 20s count because I did have a class of those
tough quail
yes
maiden citrus
pog
spiral cedar
@maiden citrus @spring briar @tough quail @junior trench @alpine onyx @chilly osprey
The effects of a medium-thickness upper belt on deck hits, using our favorite punching bag.
UBD = Upper Belt + (flat) deck [complete pen]
UBD BFP = Upper Belt + (flat) deck [base-first pen (usually ineffective)]
Unsurprisingly, the upper belt's presence means that target angle will affect deck penetration. The effect is moderate at low target angles off broadside, but increases substantially beyond about 30 deg off broadside (60 deg target angle), akin to the way it works for belts. While base-first penetrations are barely affected in this case, that is in part due to the thin nature of the 80 mm deck—can't go above an 80 deg impact obliquity, so 14k yards is already "bottomed out."
The first image shows the UBD and UBD BFP curves as half-thickness lines, and the third image depicts just the UBD and UBD BFP curves. The second image is the data table; note 40 means no pen out to the max range of the gun (in this case, actually about 36.9k yards).
The data sheet, if desired (not optimized for readability)
And just in case anyone's forgotten:
EFF = Belt effective penetration (intact, fit to burst)
CP = Belt complete penetration (>80% of shell weight through plate)
PP = Belt partial penetration (hole in plate)
SDCP = Sloped deck complete penetration
Deck = Main armor deck complete penetration
Deck BFP = Main armor deck base-first penetration (tumbling, unfit to burst)
spring briar
maiden citrus
hushed saffron
OH FUCK YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
desert agate
milduras a nice town
spring briar
what about Traralgon?
desert agate
nah literally only been to melbourne and driven through mildura
oh been to geelong too
cos airshow
should see Tasmanias place names
indigenous names are fine, Tasmania though
spring briar
wheeze
desert agate
In April 2003, during the early part of the Iraq war, the town's website was bombarded by confused internet users from around the world trying to contact Iraqis
spring briar
dusty kraken
I can't believe the Mongols burned down one of the world's largest libraries there at the time
desert agate
Oh in Perth you can either go Innaloo or Upper Swan
Joke works best if you say it out loud
spring briar
delicate beacon
F35 Harrier?
tender monolith
fat plane
manic latch
https://twitter.com/dewszt/status/1534933126656315392
Why carrier still has slope
British think slope> catapults now?
Based ngl
tough quail
chonk
shrewd pecan
Twitter
fierce sparrow
NH90 ehh..?
desert agate
Shittiest helicopter around
spring briar
Spon not being able to rationally think when something bad happens in regards to Australian defence
take the helis
employ some people
get them to see what needs to be fixed
fix it
proceed
please
for me?
shrewd pecan
they can't fix them due to a lack of spare parts
"“Regrettably we have reached the conclusion that no matter how many hours our technicians work, and how many parts we order, it will never make the NH90 capable of to meeting the requirements of the Norwegian Armed Forces. Based on a joint recommendation by the Armed Forces and associated departments and agencies, the Norwegian Government has therefore decided to end the introduction of the NH90 and has authorized the Norwegian Defence Material Agency to terminate the contract.”"
fierce sparrow
guess its back to Blackhawks ehh?
junior trench
shrewd pecan
"“We have made repeated attempts at resolving the problems related to the NH90 in cooperation with NHI, but more than 20 years after the contract was signed, we still don’t have helicopters capable of performing the missions for which they were bought, and without NHI being able to present us with any realistic solutions.”"
guessing we're getting Norwegian Blackhawks
tho would be nice to see the S-92 get some attention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92
junior trench
certain key components, notably those related to the NH90’s anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capability, have also become obsolete, she says, with NHI unable to find suitable replacements.
such is what happens when you're delivering helicopter up to 20 years late
and are busy fixing things like the width of the doors
and how much weight the floor and ramp can support
desert agate
Spon not being able to rationally think when something bad happens in regards to...
I mean
It's not a helicopter that's uniquely problemed in Australia
spring briar
Nor is it faulted in every country it’s used in
desert agate
The sole nation without serious complaints is France really
Because they build it
And thus take all the stock of spare parts
Australia was it's first major export customer and it was 15 years late to delivery
tender monolith
How the fuck do you get 15 years latw and not get sued into bankruptcy
desert agate
Domestic industry involvement 
eager dove
Join the club
tender monolith
I wasn't involved
desert agate
Skill issue
spring briar
want to talk about how the RN didn't deliver 4crh AP to HMAS Australia?
tender monolith
:v
solid mango
Hipper big head
spring briar
spiral cedar
want to talk about how the RN didn't deliver 4crh AP to HMAS Australia?
What did they issue then
CPC?
spring briar
2 crh
spiral cedar
spring briar
this one
it got replaced on the royal navy ships with the 4crh shells around 1915
tough quail
australia not real
chilly osprey
That's what the Kiwi's want you to believe, but in reality they're missing from maps more often than the Aussies
chilly osprey
Also, Richy, quick question, when did the MN move from 2crh to higher crh shells?
spring briar
you mean when they put winscreens on their shells?
desert agate
australia not real
desert agate
That's what the Kiwi's want you to believe, but in reality they're missing from ...
annexation justified
chilly osprey
Basically, yeah
desert agate
🚮
spring briar
but French APC caps were also somewhat close in shape to British 4crh projectiles so it wasn't that big of a detriment that they had no windscreens
I circled some of the navy shells in red to demonstrate
Compared to British 4 crh shells:
I hope this makes it a bit more clear
chilly osprey
Yeah, it does, thanks
spring briar
french AP caps necessitated a very long windscreen, which is what they also went with
Land based artillery, which used big HE did put windscreens on
µ
haven't been successful in finding pictures of the early 340mm with windscreen tho
nor the heavy AP used on the earliest of russian battleships
also the more I read on tsushima the more I call bs on togo
spiral cedar
How so
spring briar
ordering german fuses for the HE and not bothering with AP
junior trench
what if
bombardment HE with a windscreen, solely so you can put an extended trigger rod out the front to the top of the windscreen
so the shell explodes above or at ground level
rather than below the surface
spring briar
will have to be a long rod
or a slow shell
like my man togo went into battle without AP
and somehow faced the one fleet in all of the seven seas that had ships more flammable than a hay bale in death valley
man rolled a nat 20
ivory ridge
spring briar
dapper parcel
Its crew crowded deck in hopes of balancing her.
tough quail
spring briar
As Petropavlovsk moved closer to the harbour's entrance, she detonated a Japanese mine that his men had failed to clear as he had instructed.[19] Secondary explosions followed quickly in succession and Petropavlovsk sank, taking Admiral Makarov with her.
dapper parcel
like my man togo went into battle without AP
and somehow faced the one fleet in ...
He's also extremely lucky his HE shells that detonate prematurely onboard his ships didn't cause sympathetic detonation
fierce sparrow
Rough...
spring briar
yeah that too
in that time any sort of breech detonation can just turn your ship into a pipebomb
desert agate
Predreds try not to explode violently and sink quickly challenge (impossible)
manic latch
One of wonders of aviation
The helicopter that crashed during Bin Laden's assassination
We dont know about the full design yet right
Only the tail
God I wonder how it looked in full body
frigid karma
Found an interesting read on Bismarck’s crew morale
Kaptänleutnant von Müllenheim-Rechberg, when interrogated, ventured the opinion that “Bismarck” could still have held her own against “Rodney” and “King George V” had not a shell from, he believed H.M.S. “Dorsetshire”, hit the Main Control Position. This blew out “Bismarck’s” brains. Main armament was then put into local control and von Müllenheim-Rechberg moved to “B” turret which was ordered to engage H.M.S. “Dorsetshire”. Only one salvo was fired. The gun’s crew had become thoroughly demoralised and mutinied and left the turret saying: “We are not going to stay here for target practice.” Müllenheim-Rechberg also left the turret. Similar scenes were taking place all over the ship for at this time “Bismarck” was taking terrific punishment.
According to one prisoner one officer drew his revolver and shot down some of the crew when they refused to obey him. Turret after turret was silenced, and communications were wrecked. Shell after shell hit the upper deck which was speedily reduced to a mass of twisted steel scourged ever again by fresh shells. Fires had broker out amidships and aft. Sheets of flame were pouring out of the funnel and the ship’s four aircraft were also burning. One shot snapped the mainmast which spun down over the quarter deck creating fresh carnage. Slowly the ship began to heel to port, water began to pour below through ventilators on the port side, water also rendering two port secondary armament turrets useless. Below on the Battery Deck ratings fought to escape with others who jammed the companionways, afraid to run the gauntlet of fire sweeping the decks above. The order to “Abandon Ship” never reached many parts of the vessel. Groups of men acted independently for themselves, but many such groups were blown to pieces before they could leave the ship.
As regards the final phase of the destruction of the “Bismarck” a conversation between two prisoners is worthy of notice. One remarked that a number of members of Germany’s Propaganda Kompanie were on board who filmed the scenes during the last battle. His companion said: “If that film was ever shown in Germany there would be no more volunteers for the German Navy.”!
spring briar
I wonder if those films are in some archive
frigid karma
Dashcam vids of the 1940s
maiden citrus
the formerly known as a man getting hit by a 16'' shell
frigid karma
As if there would be teeth left
spiral cedar
- Although HORNET and YORKTOWN were constructed at different times, HORNET was essentially a duplicate of YORKTOWN. In the actions which resulted in the loss of these ships, they were both initially struck by two Japanese aircraft torpedoes. It will be noted, however, that the list resulting from these two hits was considerably different on the two ships. YORKTOWN listed initially to 17° and then to 24° through slow flooding, whereas HORNET listed initially 10-1/2° and remained there momentarily until counterflooding reduced the list to 7°. Although YORKTOWN took aboard more water, the difference in quantity was negligible and does not account for the difference In list assumed by the two vessels.
- The most important reason for the difference is the fact that YORKTOWN was struck by two torpedoes in the most vulnerable section of the ship - the firerooms. In this section the torpedo defense system consists of only three bulkheads. The immediate flooding of the generator room and the outboard firerooms produced about 13° of list. The flooding of the voids in the torpedo protection system and the four crew's spaces above the hits produced the remainder of the 17° initial list. HORNET, on the other hand, was struck in way of the forward engine room -a more adequately protected section of the ship. The flooding of this space resulted in no list because no longitudinal bulkheads were present. The flooding of No. 9 fireroom and torpedo protection spaces produced about 5-1/2° of list. The other hit aft struck in a section minutely subdivided which was near the centerline. These spaces in themselves probably produced about 5° of list.
spring briar
spiral cedar
Italyans
spiral cedar
I, Tall Yan(dere)
exotic scarab
spring briar
I don't they they meant gay in that sense of the word
spiral cedar
Jaba, do you know what the DP in eg. 12 inch DP shell stands for?
Dunno
So I sent an email to Okun; if he doesn’t know then I’ll ask some others
tough quail
italnyas
ivory ridge
spring briar
<:nyaaa:798599965458300968>
Garibaldi on his way to troll Cavour
junior trench
Jaba, do you know what the DP in eg. 12 inch DP shell stands for?
air burst anti-air/anti-surface mortar HE obvs /s
sullen canyon
So, an officer is also a shell there?
spring briar
dapper parcel
dapper parcel
dapper parcel
chilly osprey
They're actually pretty useful for defending narrow waterways
The RM had a ton of 11" mortars around the straits of Messina, for example
fervent bobcat
Macc
fierce sparrow
spiral cedar
POV you’ve challenged the USAAF to a game of water polo
frigid karma
Thought those were skip bombs
remote monolith
spring briar
noooooooo
fierce sparrow
eternal veldt
Nah, it's just coal dust.
dusty kraken
This is why you dont paint the deck with vodka
Big fast shell hits it and it gets set on fire
tribal mortar
Type 4 Ke-nu
spring briar
maiden citrus
👗
jovial elm
There is a fairly inexhaustible supply of people who think naval administration and the classifications which navies gave to ships implies that battlecruisers should never have faced battleships. Indeed, when challenged, we're often advised to "go read a history book". Like quite a few others here, my library is quite extensive but I'm aware that when told to go read a book, what the person who's backed themselves into a corner really means is "I watched a very poorly made TV show once". Study of naval warships to any meaningful depth takes a lot of time and more technical and engineering understanding than most people are willing to give it.
So, here's a fairly simple illustration. On the left, a midships cross sectional diagram of the belt and deck thicknesses of the highly regarded Queen Elizabeth class battleships, 4 of which served with distinction under Adm Beatty as part of the 5th Battlecruiser Squadron at Jutland in July 1916 and, famously, absorbed a pounding. Some of the class were heavily reconstructed later gaining substantially more horizontal armour but slowing them down further. Famously, HMS Barham exploded after being torpedoed in December 1941 in the south east of the Mediterranean. On the right, a midships cross sectional diagram of the belt and deck thicknesses of the very poorly regarded battlecruiser HMS Hood, which exploded in May 1941 following a hit from a 380mm shell travelling at 10.5 degrees below horizontal, according to the German ballistics curves for the 16,300 yards/14,900 metre range of the salvo.
It should be immediately apparent to all with functioning eyeballs that simplistic remarks such as "Hood was a battlecruiser and had armour nowhere near that of a battleship" are simply incorrect.
manic latch
There is a fairly inexhaustible supply of people who think naval administration ...
Hood fans explaining why a battlecruiser should be called battleship
Speaking of British
@desert agate https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1623588/rolls-royce-engine-aukus-nuclear-submarine-deal-brexit-news-defence
desert agate
Pure speculation