I saw-a tha pizza tank
#history
unborn wyvern
junior trench
Boo. Get new material.
unborn wyvern
CFB borden brought their M13/40 to the aquino tank weekend
junior trench
At least make it a risotto joke instead
unborn wyvern
can i offer you a replica Latvian interwar tank built ontop of a Bren carrier?
unborn wyvern
unborn wyvern
rip lol
fervent bobcat
Anyways a bunch of second rate powers vs pretty much every other country in the world
It wasn’t about whether the allies would win: it was about when and what would be the cost
unborn wyvern
the M13/40 wasn't just sitting there and looking pretty, it moved under it's own power
Unfortunately due to the previous museum that was borrowing it slapping a new engine and transmission without permission and doing lord knows what with the original engine
junior trench
M13/40 doesn't get much credit for what it is considering the other designs of the time
manic latch
Imagine thinking in any way that the axis could win
While the Map does look like alot. What if US was Axis side 
fervent bobcat
US would end up having to deal with invading Canada and fighting a war across the Atlantic to fight Britain
European axis would probably still get fucked up
But the US had zero reason to want to help them anyways 
unborn wyvern
M13/40 doesn't get much credit for what it is considering the other designs of t...
Italian tanks are pretty cool, i was really excited when i saw it waiting to go around the track
they did they best they could with what they had
junior trench
Nah like
If you actually compare the M13/40 to other tanks from the same year and broadly within the same weight class
It's pretty top of the bunch
fervent bobcat
Best case scenario for Axis-US relations is total US neutrality
Thankfully Tojo was such a paranoid idiot he attacked PH
I will admit I can’t help but feel bad for the Germans: they both ended up in hopeless wars with them having to solo a massive coalition of other powers basically on their own
Germany’s biggest weakness is picking sides
unborn wyvern
Replica StuG and a not replica M577
fervent bobcat
First by allying with the rotting Austro-Hungarians and ottomans and then basically isolating everyone in Europe from them other than Italy and Romania
ivory ridge
M13/40 my beloved
tough quail
Anyways a bunch of second rate powers vs pretty much every other country in the ...
it's in pretty bad form to call your opponents "second rate" when the opening months involve them beating your ass up and down the field
it makes you look worse more than it makes them look worse
tough quail
I will admit I can’t help but feel bad for the Germans: they both ended up in ho...
and this is just stupid
fervent bobcat
it's in pretty bad form to call your opponents "second rate" when the opening mo...
Weren’t you arguing the last time I talked to you that France and Britain were ready for the next war and Germany only got lucky
tough quail
oN tHeIr OwN
fervent bobcat
oN tHeIr OwN
Tell me: what did Austria Hungary even do in the final years of ww1
Or the ottomans for that matter
ivory ridge
fervent bobcat
Italy in WW2 ended up having to be turned into a client state because they signed peace with the allies
But then again why bother when it seems you guys just change your stances on something for the sole purpose of disagreeing
tough quail
my man
do you understand how dramatically harder germany would have gotten fucked without their allies
the sheer amount of forces they were tangling up before the hammer came down on Germany proper?
or the fact barbarossa was pretty much only possible to begin with because of germany's allies in ww2
because they geographically widened the invasion front by over 3x
silver crest
or the fact barbarossa was pretty much only possible to begin with because of ge...
wehrbs thinking that germany solo carried barb
tough quail
tfw hungary romania and finland increase the invasion corridor four fold and stretch the red army accordingly
fervent bobcat
Rip to the Romanian army: beat the shit out of Russia only to be annihilated by Stalingrad
tough quail
austria-hungary and the ottomans in ww1 similarly tied up so, so many troops in ww1 for germany
frigid karma
consider that after the battle of vittorio veneto, the italians had basically free reign to yolo right into germany
austria-hungary useless btw
fervent bobcat
They basically beared the entire western front, Austria only had Italy (ended up losing despite having every single advantage possible) and Russia (collapsing) to worry about
frigid karma
every single advantage possible
the fucking alps
fervent bobcat
If Austria-Hungary’s role as an ally simply was “distraction” then they were quit the shit allies
frigid karma
what is this delusion
fervent bobcat
> every single advantage possible
> the fucking alps
That’s literally what I mean
Defensive war in the alps!
They still fucked that up!
tough quail
because germany would've just shrugged off russia, italy, the french and britain all piling into their homeland from left right and center
fervent bobcat
Italy’s army was also hopelessly incompetent
fervent bobcat
because germany would've just shrugged off russia, italy, the french and britain...
bruuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh
frigid karma
ok at this point
fervent bobcat
When the fuck did I say that
frigid karma
you need help
you realize like
a large part of italian operations in ww1 is attacking austrian held positions in the alps
fervent bobcat
Yes.
And somehow despite the fact that they had the easy task of defending the alps against the hopelessly incompetent Italian army it would’ve been easy, but instead they ended up collapsing
How do you mess up that bad
frigid karma
ok at this point you're just a braindead germany coper
fervent bobcat
bruuuuh
frigid karma
"muh poor glorious germany having to carry shit teammates smh"
fervent bobcat
More like: “Germany fucking sucks at picking allies”
And is even worse at choosing enemies
frigid karma
they're kind of starved for choice
fervent bobcat
“Who we fighting today” “everyone”
I literally said “hopeless war”
I’m not a wehrb
Or kaiserb
tough quail
you're either grossly overrating germany or grossly underrating her allies so, 's a bit hard to tell
fervent bobcat
they're kind of starved for choice
During that time their only directly hostile nation they dealt with was France, but then they proceeded to also piss of Russia (backing the oppressor of the Slavs by helping the brain dead Austrians), Britain (attacking Belgium), and the US ( Zimmerman and the submarines) and no, they’re not starved, they’re just F tier diplomats
frigid karma
Britain is part of the triple entente with Russia and France
fervent bobcat
They basically did everything they could to only end up with two rotting empires as allies
fervent bobcat
Britain is part of the triple entente with Russia and France
Britain wasn’t even part of the entente at the start of the war
Wym
Triple Entente was created post Belgium invasion
Due to the British guarantee
Britain might’ve just sat it out if Belgium was left alone
frigid karma
in a 5s search from wikipedia:
The Triple Entente (from French entente [ɑ̃tɑ̃t] meaning "friendship, understanding, agreement") describes the informal understanding between the Russian Empire, the French Third Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. It was built upon the Franco-Russian Alliance of 1894, the Entente Cordiale of 1904 between Paris and London, and the Anglo-Russian Entente of 1907. It formed a powerful counterweight to the Triple Alliance of Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Italy. The Triple Entente, unlike the Triple Alliance or the Franco-Russian Alliance itself, was not an alliance of mutual defence.
fervent bobcat
Then why didn’t Britain immediately declare war once Russia went to war
Britain only joined once Belgium’s neutrality was violated
frigid karma
because britain has closer ties to france?
fervent bobcat
But they also didn’t declare war when France was attacked
fervent bobcat
As said, they only declared war when Belgium was attacked
frigid karma
i am 99% certain that even if belgium was not attacked, it would only take a while for the french to convince the british to start fighting the germans
considering the nature of europe at that point
fervent bobcat
Hold on lemme research that
frigid karma
also germany and austria have such strong cultural ties that, like
time traveling back to cause germany to not ally with austria is tantamount to deleting germany's identity altogether
fervent bobcat
Aight, I concede
solid mango
My eyes tricked me there for a second 
ivory ridge
pretty sure the norcal prelims have both a triple 127 and quadruple 127 in some of them
cinder escarp
Octuple 5" fuck it. 2 layers of 4.
tender monolith
did i miss shitposting time again
fervent bobcat
Nope
zealous vine
What does the AA crew do when there are enemy planes, but the ship still has to shoot at the enemy ship? Do the blasts significantly hinder the AA crew's operation capacity?
desert agate
Yes
frigid karma
What does the AA crew do when there are enemy planes, but the ship still has to ...
combined air and surface warfare is very rare
owing to the fact that most aa gunners will just see a blur in the sky and shoot at it
it's fairly common during dogfights for one ship (even not having to engage enemy ships) to accidentally shoot down allied planes
desert agate
Calabria iirc featured a fair amount of surface and air warfare
frigid karma
yamato and tirpitz also attempted to fight planes with their main guns
didn't really work, and i'm pretty sure they need to call all crewmen below decks before they shoot
otherwise the aa gunners will probably be swimming
zealous vine
So the AA crew still shoot at planes regardless if the main guns are engaging enemy ships?
desert agate
Not at all
During surface engagements there are still manned AA emplacements
And obviously large calibre guns don't work for AA work
somber knoll
yamato and tirpitz also attempted to fight planes with their main guns
confetti shells moment 
junior trench
Yamato's attempt was laughable
Tirpitz's was brainy
timed 15" HE to break up formations
vs an 18" firework
zealous vine
pretty nutty
desert agate
So the AA crew still shoot at planes regardless if the main guns are engaging en...
Not all AA emplacements can be manned during a surface engagement, positions that are close to the guns cannot be manned as the pressure of the guns firing will kill those manning them
But in the event of air attack, there are still positions manned just in case
And also qwerty is yet again talking out of his ass, friendly fire from AA was not exceptionally common as its not hard to tell which planes are hostile and which are friendly, you can use the course and the formations of the aircraft to determine their nationality and in lower altitude engagements (which most naval air battles are) its more than possible to see enemy roundels
junior trench
Germans also pretty much knew exactly where the bombers would be coming from due to fjord's shape
desert agate
Plus IFF was in its infancy and also helped prevent friendly fire
junior trench
so it's not exactly a horrible idea to just fire 15" timed HE into the path the enemy bombers have to take
zealous vine
Not all AA emplacements can be manned during a surface engagement, positions tha...
thonks 👌
spring briar
15” anti personnel shell filled with steel shot
desert agate
I am yet again left in pain trying to find the diagram of the safe and unsafe areas on Iowas deck when her main guns are in operation
zealous vine
I am yet again left in pain trying to find the diagram of the safe and unsafe ar...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKimuGp2LSs it was stated recently in Simenski's vid
spring briar
alpine onyx
A bit late, but from accounts of the Bisko and Eugen they did keep crew on deck near their AA mounts during gunnery duels, but usually in a shelter location to reduce the likelyhood of losses to splinters. But there was no rule that the AA gun posts had to remain empty during firing, as there were plenty of witnesses that saw the engagements while at their mounts.
Also while not a BB gun, Eugen did use her main guns to fire flare rounds towards enemy planes to mark them for her escorting fighters when she came under an air attack en route to Germany with her aft missing
And at that point all AA posts were manned for obvious reasons
spring briar
Ayo they turned Europe into an island archipelago
desert agate
Denmark isn't fucking real
fierce sparrow
maiden citrus
missisipi river hyper mode engaged
humble mulch
Ice land looking think
spring briar
Me, a western interior seaway mosasaur 
vs
You, a pacific mosasaur 
maiden citrus
me: a baby t rex just tryna swim with my dad
maiden citrus
yeah
spring briar
and the animation is just stunning
maiden citrus
I'm the third baby, and on the beach can't find food because I'm searching for hot dogs as prey
remote monolith
AYO they removed California
western interior seaway my beloved
spring briar
remote monolith
now if only you preserve Appalachian dinosaurs as frequently as Laramidian ones
also speaking of Prehistoric Planet jesus fuck pterosaurs look freaky
remote monolith
their proportions are horribly wrong, their head looks too big for their neck, and they way they walk is unsettling
maiden citrus
when they walk it's like, my brain trying to figure out what kind of animal that is
cuz there's no animal like that now
remote monolith
ikr, they look like something that's not from earth
maiden citrus
maybe bats but they're miniscule
remote monolith
bats at least are small and they kinda mostly crawl. while pterosaurs can grow to giraffe sized and fucking gallop at you
maiden citrus
yeah like in their episode
when that one comes back to find the other female messing with its nest and its running animation and noises it's like
ah yes, xenomorph
remote monolith
yeah this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTt7RXRve18
holy fucking shit man the noise just makes it worse
wtf are you
spring briar
I'm just glad we finally have a believable dinosaur documentary
that doesn't have PS2 graphics
remote monolith
apparently not all enjoyed it though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2xFIuky8C8
spring briar
dinosaurs are warm blooded
maiden citrus
do people just forget that
spring briar
we believed they were cold blooded for the longest time
but look how chonky they are
maiden citrus
yeah, I do think metabolism probably varied by species though
spring briar
likely
sullen canyon
Well they were mistaken for reptiles of sorts
remote monolith
yeah, I do think metabolism probably varied by species though
probably yeah
maiden citrus
like how sauropods probably can get by on gigantothermy when they get large enough
spring briar
it's funny how hard this documentary dunked on jurassic world tho
the Trex looks both softer and more bad ass
remote monolith
PrePlanet has so many shades thrown at Jurassic Park lol
maiden citrus
mesothermic
spring briar
panthermic
manic latch
https://tenor.com/view/kaperoo-prehistoric-planet-david-attenborough-hans-zimmer...
Relationship goals 
remote monolith
mesothermic
yeah they're kinda not as warmblooded as modern animals, but not reptile cold either
maiden citrus
love me some sauropods
remote monolith
that Dreadnoughtus part was insane
you don't often see sauropods smash into each other like that
spring briar
same energy
maiden citrus
yeah, and accurate, if something that large fell without bracing it could be damaging
manic latch
https://tenor.com/view/kaperoo-prehistoric-planet-david-attenborough-hans-zimmer...
Don't watch spear and fang
spring briar
they just became smol
maiden citrus
spear and fang is based though
spring briar
Don't watch spear and fang <:Sadge:866427415051763732>
nah I've seen that
manic latch
Zombie episode 
spring briar
maka
maiden citrus
theropod moment
remote monolith
lil dinosaurs
manic latch
spring briar
maka when one of the largest sauropod species is called Dreadnoughtus and not South-Carolinus
maiden citrus
true
remote monolith
maka when one of the largest sauropod species is called Dreadnoughtus and not So...
least it didn't get named Kaiserius
remote monolith
dang, kinda has a nice ring to it I admit
remote monolith
need more ancient creatures named after battleships of old
manic latch
Tsaraurus
desert agate
<a:Rossiya_pat:856553988559339589>
Once again I am forced to remember that black swans aren't the international standard swans
maiden citrus
or ships named after ancient creatures
manic latch
spring briar
manic latch
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/493859460599644160/983139231599829012/tri...
Pyotr Veliky vs Des Moines in balanced War thunder match making
spring briar
@manic latch
fierce sparrow
those red eyes ain't gonna stop those ATGMs
So... rip Shtoras
eternal veldt
Montgomery's plan for the Normandy landings. Pay attention to the remark on the bottom right.
Don't let Yamamoto read that.
spring briar
eternal veldt
What does the AA crew do when there are enemy planes, but the ship still has to ...
Rather late, and specifically only for Yamato: Any gun crew that is not within shielded structures (i.e. Sandbagged/unshielded 25mm/13mm positions) are required to get inside the superstructure or below the ship, taking along with them the Le Prieur sights for the 25mm while they are doing that or risk
- extreme eardrum injury
- messing with the Le Prieur sights' delicate calibration from shockwave
I think Maka did some calculations as well, being on deck while the main guns that bkg are going off isn't nice to your lungs either and risk having it collapsed if too close.
There is also the case of Richelieu's 380mm giving severe burns to the forward Oerlikon gallery crew as she fired as the ship's guns were not trained abeam enough; By that point as I recall a bulkhead was already installed to mitigate the blast effects. Nonetheless, a few guns were also ruined because of that.
Conversely, as Ive posted before, there are also cases where these effects are completely irrevelant or otherwise ignored, as demonstrated in this reel below.
Helmet blown clean off from shockwave.
spring briar
OSHA moment
eternal veldt
You generally just dont want to be in proximity of these things; Wisconsin's bridge crew duck to cover as soon as the firing command was given during her service in the Gulf War.
spring briar
ofc you don't want to be near a tube producing 500 million joules of energy
eternal veldt
You don't want to be on the receiving end, either...
spring briar
hope that the shell remains stuck in the armor
eternal veldt
(Please dont post the exploded PzIV, that was a demo charge, not Rodney's handiwork)
spring briar
yes but the effects would be similar in case of a direct hit
eternal veldt
Probably, lots of defoiling and probably a crater to boot.
spring briar
a non-direct hit would likely crush one side and penetrate the entirety of the tank with shrapnell
like the russian BB's at tsushima
eternal veldt
like the russian BB's at tsushima
What happened? Non direct hit on the waterline, spalling happened anyway?
spring briar
japanese AP shells acted like HE
and the upper works of the russian BB's are somewhat armoured like medium tanks
eternal veldt
So fuse activated and shrapnel everywhere?
eternal veldt
Pepperpot moment
spring briar
Japanese shells were unable to defeat the actual armor of the ships
but they set everything on fire as coal dust was littered everywhere
eternal veldt
spring briar
and most russian crew for DC got blasted with shrapnell
so the fires were left to burn
eternal veldt
Why flameproofing is absolutely important
spring briar
why maintenance and cleaning is absolutely important
comparatively, russian shells were able to penetrate japanese BB's but had very limited bursters
eternal veldt
In the defence of the 2nd Squadron, well-maintained is the last word I'd describe them after that long trek to Tsushima
eternal veldt
Embellishments notwithstanding
I'd imagine the hull is caked with rust and barnacles
eternal veldt
See, this is why Dunkek gets the nice carpets and things off as soon as war is declared
At least I hope they didn't remove the tables too 
spring briar
russian bb's get shit on relentlessly for tsushima
while it was mostly a maintenance problem
and the shells were rather whimpy after penetration
eternal veldt
If the motley crew is as described as "untrained"
Then it's a significant problem itself already
I've described before how the Chinese Beiyang Fleet is just a floating disaster
Shells that are left rotting for god knows how long, funds for training diverted to the imperial court
Guns so badly maintained that allegedly one of them had a breech explosion
🤡 /10
spring briar
two Japanese ACR's were forced to retreat because they received underwater flooding from russian AP shells
tsushima is a weird one honeslty
I would've loved to see how it would've gone had both fleets had proper AP shells
and we cleaned the russain bb's
eternal veldt
A properly maintained fleet would generally be good enough
And, if anything, good morale and discipline assuming the crew is indeed not yet proficient
spring briar
Simply removing fire as a hazard would massively shift the battle in favour of the russians
eternal veldt
how to destroy the Jeune Ecole once and for all
spring briar
Guns so badly maintained that allegedly one of them had a breech explosion
breech explosions happen from time to time
but if your rifling is rusted...
let's rewatch drach's video on Tsushima shall we
eternal veldt
That's the problem
The rifling was dusted, and the crew in their haste rammed the shell right into the chamber without cleaning it
Boom goes the gun crew
spring briar
kekw
eternal veldt
Which is why I said shit training is such a massive problem
This situation could have been easily prevented if proper and regular training was done
But no, let's spend more money for Dowager Ci Xi's disposable embroidered towels
eternal veldt
Also, I'd just like to note
For the Beiyang Fleet, the commander knew the fleet is in a shit condition
But the imperial court asked "wtf is the fleet doing while Korea is getting fucked"
So 
eternal veldt
Also a gross underestimation of Japanese naval power, of course
The Imperial court still refers to the Japanese as "Wokou" then, a derogatory term meaning Japanese pirates
spring briar
Chinese calling the Japanese pirates
haha
how ironic
speaking of
RIP Ning Po
eternal veldt
Chinese calling the Japanese pirates
The term traces quite far into history, so not entirely incorrect
And keeping in mind that the Qing is still quite... pompous
spring briar
eternal veldt
(and that's how you fucking overdose on copium and unironically believe in boxers)
Invincible flesh armour that can stop westoid boolets, shi de
manic latch
<:YorkBruh:588629709328482325> those red eyes ain't gonna stop *those* ATGMs
So....
Abrams has her own
Or used to
Not sure if they still use it
I think Bardley has it
Uhh
Puma has her own
Ztz-99A has similar style with Puma
spring briar
DNO Rear-Admiral A.G.H.W. Moore summarized Ordnance Board remarks regarding armor penetration in a "Memorandum to the Controller" dated 24 October 1910. In this Memorandum it was stated that 12 inch (30.5 cm) APC shells striking at any angle over 20 degrees were unlikely to penetrate even 4 inches (10.2 cm) of KC armor (face hardened) and were likely to breakup at angles of 30 degrees when striking 6 inches (15.2 cm) of KC armor.
Thus, it can be seen that the poor performance of British shells at Jutland (Skagerrak) cannot have been a surprise to the Royal Navy. Remarkably, the memo does not suggest that the shells be improved, but instead urges that these thicknesses of armor be considered for future ship designs, as if it was expected that enemy shells would perform as poorly as did their own.
bruuuuuh
jovial elm
Abrams has her own
Abrams doesn't sacrifice it's front armour profile for it's red eye
Unlike the T90
manic latch
Abrams doesn't sacrifice it's front armour profile for it's red eye
Yeah that's why T-90M doesn't have them anymore
And Abrams doesn't use this thing anymore I think
But German PUMA and Chinese Ztz-99 does
Works like PUMA one
jovial elm
Yes
manic latch
Speaking of PUMA. I think Challenger 2 will get MUSS system too
jovial elm
T90M is reasonably cheap so it is ok
manic latch
T90M is reasonably cheap so it is ok
And Sexy 
jovial elm
Speaking of PUMA. I think Challenger 2 will get MUSS system too
The chally 3 has it, it is also having an APS tested
I actually saw the chally 3 in the wild
manic latch
I thought there was only 1 model
jovial elm
Megatron has tonnes of unique tech
Like thermal viewer bammers
Jammers.
Not sure about the plate
I hate the way warthunder portrays the chally
cinder escarp
T-90 doesn't sport the active jammers of the Shtora system largely because guidance has moved on and newer jammers weren't developed.
manic latch
I hate the way warthunder portrays the chally
Why. Black Night is cool
Now you get the Desert Storm Chally
cinder escarp
Meh, chally is crap in any guise.
manic latch
Meh, chally is crap in any guise.
What's her problems except the rifled gun
cinder escarp
Fat, underpowered, very fat, comedy cannon whose problems are far deeper than rifling, exceedingly fat, hilariously poor hull protection, the fattest lad since maus, completely unsurvivable ammo stowage, big chungus, outdated sensor kit.
spring briar
what he said
manic latch
Yeah kinda weird still no 1500hp engine
cinder escarp
L30's ammo involves black powder igniters, bagged charges, obturating breeches, and touch holes to set off the igniter.
It reminds me of old naval artillery.
jovial elm
Games act like it isn't
spring briar
not enough
cinder escarp
manic latch
Games act like it isn't
Can you share secret documents to prove it
jovial elm
Lol
cinder escarp
There is, I kid you not, a touch hole (flash channel in British terminology) for the gun
It is very ye olde fashioned
cinder escarp
Can you share secret documents to prove it
LFP is a flat 76mm RHA.
jovial elm
Touch hole?
jovial elm
LFP is a flat 76mm RHA.
It literally isn't tho
manic latch
LFP is a flat 76mm RHA.
Woah that's.. low
cinder escarp
So, the TVE is a blank cartridge that serves as the primer - and the flash of the cartridge travels down the channel to ignite the black powder igniter.
It's very much like an old cannon's touch hole & fuze
jovial elm
cinder escarp
The only integrated armor in the LFP is the 76mm RHA plate, everything else is applique.
jovial elm
You can see the armour is far thicker than it is portrayed on that lfp
cinder escarp
Why yes, because Megatron carries the late applique package
jovial elm
Applique is fine
cinder escarp
It's... okay but suboptimal. It has durability issues and results in comical weight.
jovial elm
Idk man
jovial elm
Looking at Leo 2s popping in Kurdistan was pretty special
cinder escarp
That's a literal silk pouch of black powder that is sewed onto the back charge.
manic latch
cinder escarp
The Leo 2s lost were in their original 1980s B-tech configuration with zero applique. Which is still better LFP protection than the CR2 without applique.
L30 is also a wacky comical split-breech gun, and uses three part ammo
cinder escarp
The third part being the blank cartridge used as the primer, they come in 10 round magazines the loader has to manually replace every 10 shots
spring briar
other tanks use electrical primers I suppose?
cinder escarp
Yes, but integrated into the round as is sensible
And not a totally separate component firing through a touch hole
jovial elm
Chally 3 is pretty meh but still far better than ariete
spring briar
Chally 3 is pretty meh but still far better than ariete
I mean
jovial elm
L30 was great when it was first introduced
spring briar
who is seriously comparing Chally 3 to Ariete
jovial elm
But typically britihs, they fucked it up
jovial elm
who is seriously comparing Chally 3 to Ariete
I meant chally 2
cinder escarp
The L30 was always a "good enough for now and domestic" gun, it was never that good.
spring briar
they just needed to make a new tank from the ground up
yet decided to make an upgrade package to the chally 2
jovial elm
The L30 was always a "good enough for now and domestic" gun, it was never that g...
When it was new it was good
cinder escarp
Here's a more complete diagram of the breech in both unlocked and locked, from the declassified investigation into the misfire they had.
jovial elm
Chieftain was the best western tank of it's era kinda
cinder escarp
When new it was completely inferior to all competitor guns being issued.
jovial elm
When new it was completely inferior to all competitor guns being issued.
When new it was against the L7
So...
Oh wait, chieftain had a different rifled 120
Oh
cinder escarp
No, when new L30 was against the Rh-M 120mm L/44, the CN120/52, and the 2A46M1
Chieftain had the L11, which the L30 is just a modest update of.
(L30 was in fact developed as an upgun for CR1 and Chieftain under CHARM... and ended up getting rolled into CR2 because it was the best domestic gun they had)
manic latch
they just needed to make a new tank from the ground up
yet decided to make an up...
Well budget curse. Next generation tanks are damn expensive as seen by K2 and Armata. So nations prefer upgrades like T-90M, Chal 3, M1A2 SEP V4
cinder escarp
Had Thatcher's personal politics not played a key role, the CR2 would have been very different. It would have used a Leopard 2 hull and likely the French CN120-52
manic latch
Well budget curse. Next generation tanks are damn expensive as seen by K2 and Ar...
Speaking of. Any new plans for Leclerc?
cinder escarp
jovial elm
Are you referring to the mbt 80?
cinder escarp
Honclerc is getting a fairly modest but adequate renovation, and the Italians are actually doing an extra deep rebuild of the Ariete.
jovial elm
If so it wasn't the leopard hull, it was inhouse
cinder escarp
Are you referring to the mbt 80?
Referring to the Vickers Mark 7/2, the vehicle that actually won the tender that became CR2.
jovial elm
It was just a standard design for the era and it's cancellation had nothing to do with thatcher
jovial elm
Referring to the Vickers Mark 7/2, the vehicle that actually won the tender that...
Ah
The British fuck up everything the succeed at
Look at you aviation, tank, car, shipbuilding industry
cinder escarp
That is what is pictured in that photo, but ultimately the Britishized leopard 2 hull was killed because A) Thatcher wanted a purely domestic tank and B) Thatcher did not want the tank to be beholden to German export permissions.
manic latch
The British fuck up everything the succeed at
Invents Steam catapults
Uses ramps on their latest Carriers
jovial elm
>Invents Steam catapults
>Uses ramps on their latest Carriers
Also invents angled flight deck
manic latch
delicate beacon
Scharnhorst 
jovial elm
And was some great early jet designs
manic latch
And was some great early jet designs
Tfw Harrier, famous
Forgets to make a new one
Joins F35 instead
cinder escarp
British tank procurement can best be described as one massive trainwreck, to the point where every vehicle (with the noteworthy exception of centurion) from the interwar rearmament to the CR2 itself was issued obsolete on service entry
jovial elm
British tank procurement can best be described as one massive trainwreck, to the...
Wtong
Wrong
cinder escarp
The Brits had ambitious follow-up programs to Harrier, they just didn't fund them.
jovial elm
British everything procurement
jovial elm
FFS, the British were the only other tier 1 contributed to the F35 other than the usa
cinder escarp
1980s study for a supersonic VTOL stealth replacement for harrier
Absolutely bleeding edge, included a prone pilot in a virtual cockpit
spring briar
Honclerc is getting a fairly modest but adequate renovation, and the Italians ar...
Ariete getting a cavour and duilio style rebuild?
manic latch
1980s study for a supersonic VTOL stealth replacement for harrier
What went wrong?
cinder escarp
You'll note no windows on P.125, the pilot sat in a virtual cockpit made of display screens linked to cameras in the skin of the plane, ace combat COFFIN style.
jovial elm
Don't get me started on the British nuclear program and the British attempts to break the sound barrier
jovial elm
Don't get me started on the British nuclear program and the British attempts to ...
In both cases they gave the tech to the USA who then hid any future developments from the uk
manic latch
In both cases they gave the tech to the USA who then hid any future developments...
Could have beat SR'71 
cinder escarp
<:BuckyStare:588629690919550997>
jovial elm
Tube alloys and the M52
cinder escarp
Ariete AMV is an incredibly comprehensive update, yes.
spring briar
oh they got hipster scarfs
cinder escarp
"-new 1600HP engine;
-new Renk HSWL295TM transmission;
-new fuel tanks and fuel feeding system;
-new return rollers;
-new AFSS (fire prevention, will use FM200 gas instead of Halon 1301);
-reallocation of exhaust pipes;
-electrical turret drive instead of hydraulic;
-upgraded CBRN system;
-new 3rd gen ATTILA commander sight;
-new 3rd gen Lothar-SD gunner sight;
-new DNVS digital driver night sight;
-new FCS;
-improved hull protection against mines;
-new quad-channel SDR radio and ASID communication system;
-new Rheinmetall Rosy smoke launchers instead of the old GALIX. "
manic latch
"-new 1600HP engine;
-new Renk HSWL295TM transmission;
-new fuel tanks and fuel ...
You know this is how upgrades should be
Instead going little by little you slap many things in single go
jovial elm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAC_TSR-2 <a:smoge:889039808020770827>
TSR showed promises but wasn't the aircraft for it's era
manic latch
1600 HP?
nice nice
Is there stronger tank engine
spring briar
m1a2 is 1500 HP iirc
manic latch
m1a2 is 1500 HP iirc
Yeah everyone is 1500 at max
manic latch
Gotta love gas turbines
T-80
spring briar
The last good Russian tank
cinder escarp
1600 HP?
nice nice
It's actually the same engine but heavily overhauled
It went from being two centauro/dardo engines... to being two centauro II/freccia engines.
spring briar
deadass an excel graph
wow
you gotta wonder where all the money goes in training sometimes
manic latch
Undef
manic latch
Something to think about
Sverdlov cruiser wiki weight
16,640 tons
Sverdlov weight in war thunder
19,200 tons
While in wows. Kutuzov is 16,340 tons
So yeah Gaijin got something very wrong I think
chilly osprey
who makes these powerpoints
PowerPoints in defense fields are almost always... Uh, not exactly geared to quality presentation.
ivory ridge
Also shout-out to Leonardo literally streaming a presentation about the hitfact turret that was supposed to be private
ivory ridge
I think it was on YouTube
fierce sparrow
ah good ol Powerpoint...
ivory ridge
Tfw 40mm Freccia
chilly osprey
Based
eternal veldt
Ah, we shitting on Powerpoints on defence fields?
May I present the old classic from you know who:
eternal veldt
Thus, you know who. 
strong plank
they can’t keep getting away with it
desert agate
Would the real mike sparks please stand up?
strong plank
I like how the implication is that Guadalcanal would’ve gone a lot smoother if we’d just built a ton of Japanese destroyers
desert agate
Big if true
eternal veldt
I mean, if anything, the IJN overall would have benefited much better from the construction of more escorts and better merchant protection
rather than a massive focus on 🅱️antai kessen capital vessels, appealing as it is
spring briar
May I present the old classic from you know who:
strong plank
now I’m just imagining two destroyer forces blindly launching nighttime torpedo attacks on each other
chilly osprey
Excessive emphasis on torpedo use at night can be a detriment.
A recent article(s) I read made the point that Italian doctrine for destroyers and torpedo boats in 1937/38, as it had barely evolved from WWI, while still calling for destroyers and torpedo boats to be extremely aggressive at night, also wanted them to use torpedoes only, up until the point it was clear the enemy was aware of their presence. Only at that point should guns be used, at which point all gun systems should be used 'to the bitter end'
This policy of guns only as a secondary weapon probably hindered the development of night fire control equipment and doctrine for the RM in the interwar era
And it definitely contrasts pretty strongly with how the British went about night combat with destroyers, i.e. 'cripple them with gunfire as early as possible'
manic latch
ALLIES TURNING THE WAR
Soviets in 1944: wait we were losing?
fervent bobcat
Stalin was basically pleading for a second front because the Soviets were taking the entire German onslaught for like 3 years
manic latch
Stalin was basically pleading for a second front because the Soviets were taking...
Of course. Allies should do their duties
Easing the pain for both fronts
fervent bobcat
True…
tough quail
the real turn is the falaise pocket closing and bagration concluding back to back
taking the arms and the legs off of the heer respectively at the same time
Mmm what if all our competent and equipped troops on both fronts die simultaneously
desert agate
the austro hungarian empire dissolved itself
desert agate
tbh tho Churchill/Kitchener listening to the French and redirecting the forces in Gallipoli to defend Serbia probably would have accelerated their decline
spring briar
imagine NOT using outdated ships in a channel with the entire ottoman army looking at you through a gunsight
a channel btw which was mine free until you decided to send a battlecruiser into it to take some potshots
desert agate
it wasnt mine free
3 lines of mines were both laid at each entrance to the straits
what happened was the combined Anglo-French forces attempted to force the straits however the minesweepers were all torn up by Ottoman shore batteries
then the Ottoman minelayer with the final 27 naval mines in the Ottoman naval inventory laid them all in a space where the British and French ships turned around during the previous attempt
thus leading to heavy losses to mines
as well as gunfire
which was far stronger than anticipated
spring briar
listen, were there mines before HMS Indomitable had gone in it first?
desert agate
yes
mines were laid in the Dardanelles strait before war was even declared
3 lines of mines at the entrance
desert agate
then after the first bombardment, they laid more mines in a bay which the allied ships used to turn around
and it was that minefield which sunk bouvet, irresistible and ocean
desert agate
i did
or well
i drove through it
minefield 11 in Erin Keui Bay was the one that did the damage
spring briar
saw any shells or shell fragments?
desert agate
nah its all cleaned up now
spring briar
tough quail
yeah i visited the bay and managed to fuck up so badly i hit every single mine one after the other
you're welcome guys
desert agate
literally the last 27 naval mines in the entire ottoman empire too
spiral cedar
Thought it was 26 
frigid karma
yeah i visited the bay and managed to fuck up so badly i hit every single mine o...
horse the minesweeper
tough quail
thats me
tough quail
and other things said by the deranged
spiral cedar
SRBP has its place
And was common at the time
Even if not realistic
Also
Kearsarge
1 forward turret
spring briar
look at the barrel sticking out behind the plaque
it's missing its 8" mini turret tho
spiral cedar
Yeh
spring briar
desert agate
spring briar
idk man
desert agate
spring briar
you just dig
desert agate
spring briar
spon, you ok?
desert agate
spring briar
desert agate
spring briar
British post-Jutland tests of Russian 12" M1909 APC [M1911 APC - TD] shells gave excellent results at 20 degrees obliquity, much better than the new Greenboy British 12" Mk VII APC shell did and seemingly on a par with the larger British 13.5" APC shells.
14" AP vs iron slab
who would win
ivory ridge
me
spring briar
spiral cedar
This complex system worked well during the test, even though ammunition supply depended largely upon muscle power. Only five times before the 148th salvo did any gun fail to fire because it lacked powder and only once because a projectile was not available. BuShips commented that "for a good portion of the time, shell and powder handling lines were crossing each other in the lower powder handling room without causing any confusion. In fact, the flexibility of the powder handling system was most impressive, especially with the relatively green crew manning these stations. . . . 2,400 bags of powder were handled without any breakage. Considerable strength and dexterity were exhibited by shell handlers as they 'walked' the projectiles to any desired location by rocking and turning the shells so their points moved in a horizontal circle of about 6 inch diameter. This indicates the importance of acquired skills in any ammunition handling problem."
spring briar
yes
spiral cedar
How did the French turret crews rip the 38cm powder bags
spring briar
did the US use the same bags as the 16" guns but with a lower amount of powder?
or did they make new bags?
spiral cedar
I assume it’s fairly easy to just manufacture new bags
spring briar
well they said that they behaved like sacks of coal so i doubt they were the nice and plump bags you see so often in the US gun reels
I honestly wouldn't be surprised that they were just underfilled 16" bags tbh
spiral cedar
Wonder if US and French bag design was different
manic latch
spring briar
Wonder if US and French bag design was different
manic latch
I prefer Mig-15 engine
spring briar
Seems like the standard silk bag with semi rigid ends
tough quail
korea must be stopped
manic latch
korea must be stopped
dark spade
for D-day if I recall the allied invasion from the Germans perspective was almost suicide, and the invasion part was only successful because the allies built floating ports (after a week 1 was destroyed in a storm but the other was fine). heck the landings would have probably been a fail if they didn't use American boats because it would take them to long to get out of the boat.(not that a big ramp opening in the front is the best of ideas but hey it allows you to get off the boat faster)
desert agate
not really
a lot went wrong on D-day and the landings themselves were on the brink of failure multiple times
spiral cedar
for D-day if I recall the allied invasion from the Germans perspective was almos...
What do you mean by “Germans perspective?” As in the Germans thought the Allied operation was almost suicidal?
desert agate
and the British and Canadians used their own landing craft that were different to the American design
and worked just fine
and the big ramp at the front of the boat is the best method of landing troops
show a soldier who landed at Gallipoli an LCVP
it really doesnt get any better
even in the 21st century the concept remains
spiral cedar
Keep in mind that these aren’t amphib tanks that drive onto the beach, drop off their infantry, and then drive inland
They are boats that drive up onto the shore, and then have to back up and go out to sea to get the next wave
So consider where else you can put the ramp
At the back? Then you’re dropping off soldiers into water
Which is far worse
dark spade
What do you mean by “Germans perspective?” As in the Germans thought the Allied ...
as in from what information the germans had, they would only know there was troops on the beach with almost no way to get more supplies other than the landing crafts hitting the beach constantly which limits the unloading speed of supplies
desert agate
the Germans believed the landings would directly target a port and thus the beaches around Normandy were a relatively weak part of the Atlantic wall
as yes, logistics are nice
spiral cedar
The Germans knew amphib assaults were hard, but they also underestimated Allied supply capability, yes. They did expect that the initial landing could be contained in the better-defended areas (Pas de Calais, Normandy), after which the superiority of rail resupply (they assumed) over boat supply would allow them to out-reinforce the Allies and drive them back into the sea
desert agate
it was part of the reason why the Germans were so convinced the attack would be at Calais, other than Allied counter intelligence and deception
spiral cedar
They also expected that the initial assault would have to be at or near a port city to get the needed dock capacity, yes, as you implied
desert agate
most German troops close to Normandy were concentrated around Cherbourg as it was the port and thus the most expected place of Allied attack
spiral cedar
So the artificial harbors did indeed undermine that assumption—however, in practice the artificial harbors were not decisive, and direct shore offloads and the capture of Cherbourg proved far more important than the artificial harbors
desert agate
Cherbourg was the busiest port in the world from 1944-47
the biggest setback with regards to Cherbourg was the Germans putting up stiffer resistance than anticipated and delaying Allied troops advancing on the city, allowing the Germans enough time to sabotage the port facilities
dark spade
I would imagine the germans did everything in their power to keep that from being taken
spiral cedar
Within their constraints, but the speed of the Utah beach breakout prevented the city from being held long-term
desert agate
once the city itself was close to falling and the port facilities were sabotaged, the troops who could escape fled to Hague where they intended to do basically a Bataan and hold up the Allied advance as long as possible on the peninsula
they got bombed to smithereens and they surrendered after a relatively short push inwards
the whole area was secured by d-day +21ish iirc
after which the Allies invested vast resources into repairing the port facilities and railway station over the course of a few weeks to get the port useable again
dark spade
okay good to know, normally all the crap I see is only about Dday its self
desert agate
indeed
being here in normandy right now gave me a whole new perspective on the operations in the area
chilly osprey
Are you implying that there were naval battles in the Russo-Japanese war other than Tsushima!?!
Radical!
(/s)
spring briar
maiden citrus
frigid karma
?
junior trench
1944 Nazi Germany vs 1991 Gulf War USA
spiral cedar
alpine onyx
thanks, I hate it
spiral cedar
It hurts
delicate beacon
Whatthefuckisthat
It looks like some Wehraboo attempted to create their own scheme
maiden citrus
150 huh
alpine onyx
they were given the task of creating a paper demon that could survive a given bomb threat
and well... for those later designs they had to account for some absurd bomb threats, so it just went 
delicate beacon
Trying to make Tirpitz resistant to tallboys it seems
tough quail
so h41
god
germany is like the anti-france
where the larger the ship gets the more tonnage it wastes
spiral cedar
tough quail
the french could probably fit more firepower than the fucking kriegsmarine combined on h-41s tonnage
cinder escarp
where the larger the ship gets the more tonnage it wastes
At least H41 was a reasonably capable design in all regards, even if incredibly fat
tough quail
i frankly dont consider your ship capable when it's demonstrably worse in protection and firepower to ships nearly half it's size
spiral cedar
alpine onyx
Drach-who?
tough quail
man she's even slower than richy
at least the diesels wont constantly fucking explode
alpine onyx
Need range
spiral cedar
alpine onyx
more range
spiral cedar
alpine onyx
should rather snipe the vision slits on the conning tower, if we can go that far
just shoot out all optics, then get close and fire a torpedo salvo
ez win
spiral cedar
Nah
Down the barrel shits
Shots
Just fire shells down each gun barrel
Blow the turrets up from inside
Then sit on the barrels and take a dump
alpine onyx
Also I'm suspicious of the claims/statements that Tirpitz' armor differed from Bisko
spiral cedar
Any idea where it originated?
alpine onyx
since the claim of TP's belt being 315mm is not supported by the blueprints, which also give her 320mm
probably originated from the same direction that gave the ugly sisters a 350mm belt
tough quail
the range is honestly irrelevant, or just a happy bonus in hindsight
German steam plants were a pox upon this world and should have been replaced to the last
come to think about it the heer was also constantly suffering for not using diesel for literally everything
alpine onyx
If you wanna live the fever dream of operating in the Atlantic without having any refueling or resupplying opportunities there you kinda have to go for absurd ranges
tough quail
when you rev up your brand new panther and the engine compartment instantly bursts into flames because of leaking fuel vapor from the petrol engine
also yeah I know but the diesels actually run without dying which imo is an even more important improvement
alpine onyx
oh of course
reading those machinery reports from Scheer from her 1940-1941 trip is 
and their improved ship diesels would've been on an even higher level
with 15,000 hp from a ~70 ton motor everything becomes possible
dapper parcel
I'd give them some slack with diesel, few others use diesel on small(er) displacement engine
Tho considering their legendary transmission, diesel with higher torque and harsher power delivery would be interesting
alpine onyx
Nah, what slack I'd want to give died when reading up all the lobbying and shit that led to the Diesel tech getting dropped in favor of high pressure steam
Teething issues with tech on that scale? Better drop it for this stuff that we only ever tested on merchants that is gonna fail all requirements and hopes
dapper parcel
small(er) displacement
At large displacement the Germans are quite sophisticated
You'd think MAN, B&W got some low speed diesel design around at the time
cinder escarp
dapper parcel
I don't know how Sulzer was at the time
jovial elm
Wehraboo moment
jovial elm
God, hadn't bismarks captain ever played wows
jovial elm
Wonder if the Bismark person realized the Yamato has 2 rudders
spiral cedar
jovial elm
"slightly beefed up cruiser"
spiral cedar
jovial elm
Wehraboos are a lower than human level of life
tender monolith
Facts
jovial elm
Reading the comments is giving me a stroke
maiden citrus
<:portRaise:586409806148010005>
the 5'' secondaries would be sufficient, maybe even the bofors
jovial elm
Well yeah
jovial elm
Age of sale ships relied on wood for armour
jovial elm
Nah, dig the .50 out of the closet
Maybe not .50cal
I suspect they could cause splintering but not sure about penetration
tender monolith
There are mans on the decks
tender monolith
Doing kind of important stuff
jovial elm
Tell you what
HMS warrior is a beauty
Spent a day in her docks on her and in victory
Al should add HMS victory and give her like 1fp stat
Would be a great meme mini event ship
maiden citrus
incinerate HE shells vs all wooden hulls
jovial elm
Nah mate
maiden citrus
wows wishes it had this much fire
jovial elm
Wood is stronger than steel
But only if it were a German wooden ship and a foreign he shell
maiden citrus
upper belt moment? surely not what they meant though
tender monolith
Who can tell
tender monolith
If you don't cite sources you can claim fucking anything! This guy gets it
maiden citrus
the british navy never existed: source, my cooking friend richy thought about it once
tender monolith
Lmao
maiden citrus
you're telling me this world is populated by warships?
delicate beacon
To be fair, all armour belts are weak to plunging fire. Just like the Maginot is weak to Belgium.
spiral cedar
maiden citrus
he's pinpointing the pain since I am here
spiral cedar
I think the answer is 10
maiden citrus
that's painful start to finish
spiral cedar
If we exclude the two Pearl Harbor losses
delicate beacon
You guys seem weirdly masochistic looking up those questions.
maiden citrus
oh right
tender monolith
Blame jaba
maiden citrus
yamato could theoretically fight 1,000 planes at once
the conditions don't state win
tender monolith
Rofl
maiden citrus
so the answer is every standard at once
terse tinsel
could
maiden citrus
theoretically
terse tinsel
Should? nope Would? most likely since she couldn’t outrun them
spiral cedar
Yamato can’t outrun the Standards?
maiden citrus
heck even oklahoma was floating while yamato was
spiral cedar
maiden citrus
so the only one that can't is arizona
terse tinsel
yamato could theoretically fight 1,000 planes at once
I meant the planes my bad
desert agate
Absute speed demons of standards
terse tinsel
Imagine if Yamato got Bismarcked
And that’s how the two of them both went down
Rudder out and going in circles
dusty kraken
reminder that you cannot outrun a standard
desert agate
Because she's got a well designed propulsion and steering system
terse tinsel
Ah
spiral cedar
reminder that you cannot outrun a standard
100% of ships fired on by a Standard have been sunk, I believe
desert agate
4 shafts > 3 shafts
spiral cedar
(in combat)
terse tinsel
What would happen if you jammed the rudders to where they were facing opposite directions but toward each other
/ \
New braking system?
desert agate
The ship would go in a straight line but slower because of the extra drag
delicate beacon
Adding additional redundancy
Of all the things the Germans tried to be redundant with they didn't consider adding another rudder? 
desert agate
And you'd just have to use the engines for steering which is actually doable because you have 4 shafts
maiden citrus
Absute speed demons of standards
desert agate
Of all the things the Germans tried to be redundant with they didn't consider ad...
Remember, rudder scuttling charges
alpine onyx
They did have two rudders, and managed to get one free while the other remained stuck hard over
But wasn't enuff so they prepared to blow the entire stern off
desert agate
dapper parcel
Of all the things the Germans tried to be redundant with they didn't consider ad...
What? Three rudder? four?
all the stern is rudder
dusty kraken
the stern is the rudder
maiden citrus
New braking system?
iowas could use their rudders to slow down faster, so there are tricks you can do
I'm sure if you're trying to get the tightest turn circle you can for example you can just git gud to some degree with rudders/props
terse tinsel
Do the Battleship Trick
alpine onyx
Hahaha no
terse tinsel
Drop anchor and Tokyo drift
dapper parcel
almost all ship can do rudder braking
Two rudder means you don't ends up swerving
maiden citrus
technically one ship did it iirc
terse tinsel
Which one?
spiral cedar
During the battle, cordite smoke was a real problem for the two British battleships. Rodney would not use any of her radar outfit for ranging; all of her guns were fired using ranges provided by her optical rangefinders. From 0852 until 0859 Rodney’s two aloft rangefinders were the only ones able to track the target.
I thought we agreed on smokeless powder, Britain
dapper parcel
flashless powder actually have quite a thick smoke
terse tinsel
Ok weird question but favorite naval batter
spiral cedar
During this time, there was very poor visibility to the target due to rain squalls and cordite smoke from the guns and funnel smoke of the British ships as well as that of Bismarck and the large number of shell splashes ringing her.
This new heading caused problems with cordite and funnel smoke that were being blown into the area between the two British battleships and Bismarck, which made rangefinding aboard Rodney almost impossible. It was difficult for the spotting officer to observe the fall of the shells at the target.
At 0905 the port 134-mm guns were ordered to open fire. The range at this point had decreased to 12,800 meters. However, due to their cordite smoke, they had to cease fire a few minutes later.
When the range closed to 16,500 meters, the port 152-mm turrets opened fire. Funnel gasses and the cordite smoke made rangefinding impossible, and guns had to be fired blind at a low elevation angle.
spiral cedar
Ok weird question but favorite naval batter
Pancake
tender monolith
Crepe
tender monolith
Nope
spiral cedar
Nein
terse tinsel
It’s just fried dough with powdered sugar on top
It’s pretty good
And as a bonus, it gives you more calories than 10 Big Macs
spiral cedar
Edible heart attack
spiral cedar
Huh, the Austro-Hungarians used Vaseline in their naval powder charges
Up to 5% vaseline
terse tinsel
Thats quite odd
tender monolith
What was the reasoning?
terse tinsel
It is the same reason why the used pig fat for the old muskets?
Like on the charges
Oh
twilit plume
spiral cedar
The turrets seem more reminiscent of the Japanese 20cm twin
spiral cedar
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/2qr7ff/sumo_wrestlers_practice_under_the_guns_of_an/
Nagato, allegedly
terse tinsel
That’s a weird place to out sumo wrestlers
spiral cedar
It’s to repel boarders after the ship rams an enemy vessel