history

[exotic scarab]

she got a meta version

I think thats enough

[alpine onyx]

A most splendid meta version

[unborn wyvern]

gneisenau is cuter

[jovial elm]

People wonder why I don't like the warthunder community and wehraboos

https://www.facebook.com/gaming/WarThunder/videos/418242043494994/

Just read the comments

So bored of the same joke and shit takes

[alpine onyx]

welcome to pop history, where most is a reheated meme with inconsistent standards at best

[delicate beacon]

fasiboki

[jovial elm]

But people would get upset if I said, "lol 1 bomb arizona"

[jovial elm]

Which is equally tasteless

[alpine onyx]

[manic latch]

Average red name humor

[alpine onyx]

tho stuff like that is equally
Jerome Lee you do know that bismarck was beaten down to the point she had to run? She may of taken diwn the hood but the hood absolutely wrecked her. Hence how we were able to find her after we called for the hunt on bismarck

not even sure where people come up with this stuff

[manic latch]

Hood's sin is giving wehraboos a death where they can praise Bismarck as best

Songs didn't helped well either

[alpine onyx]

Unrelated, but I think Hood may be the only battleship to have been on the giving and receiving end of an ammo detonation, since she was the one who landed the hits on Bretagne a few months earlier

[manic latch]

[jovial elm]

interesting theory yeah

[alpine onyx]

tho pop history prefers to only remember Hood detonating, and then paying at best 25% as much attention on other cases of detonations

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

didn't Bretagne suffer the ammo detonation after she capsized?
like Yamato

ok nvm the secondary charges detonated before that

so very much like Hood

[frigid karma]

I love scharnhorst and gneisenau

They let me skip two meta seasons in a row

"yes i want to slave away for 2983479hours a day to get fucked by f1 racer subs so i can get mediocre t1.5 BBs"

-statement by the utterly deranged

[manic latch]

It takes me 2-3 minutes to get 100 coordinate points

And helps me to test out boss fleets

So don't mind it

But META ships should be stronger yes

[tough quail]

I dunno why they're all so mediocre

[manic latch]

Yeah despite all that cool looking equipment to upgrade them

Turks

[desert agate]

Am in Turkey, saw this

[ivory ridge]

Dardo as main gun

[dapper parcel]

Meroka as main gun when?

[ivory ridge]

[chilly osprey]

Tuzla-class patrol boat

[manic latch]

I love that quad Oerlikon? They have as old CIW

[dapper parcel]

That's quad Oerlikon KBB
Which is yes, Oerlikon, but not that WW2 Oerlikon

[dapper parcel]

What's the deal with Oerlikon naming scheme anyway

*THE* Oerlikon      20 x 110mm
The other Oerlikon  20 x  70mm
                    20 x  72mm
                    20 x 101mm
Oerlikon KAA/B/E    20 x 128mm
Oerlikon KAD        20 x 139mm  -  HS.820
Oerlikon KBA        25 x 137mm
Oerlikon KBB/D      25 x 184mm
Oerlikon KCA/B/E    30 x 173mm  -  HS.831 (B)
Oerlikon KDA/B/C/E  35 x 228mm

[dapper parcel]

Idk, they have too many models

[proud plume]

This video just popped up on youtube:

https://youtu.be/nQUS-wIir24

[desert agate]

"Dark" is a little bit meh as far as content creators go but they do get some good pictures

[dapper parcel]

At least they went slightly more than a Wikipedia narration
Which is already a plus, sadly

[fierce sparrow]

Dark Seas...

[proud plume]

Yeah I don't know why that's the name, but good video though.

[alpine onyx]

If I widened the criteria a bit to include post-sinking detonations and standard ammunition fires the ship count would increase quite a bit

A bunch of WW1 dreadnoughts I'd presume that title due to Jutland and Dogger Bank shenanigans

And Bismarck herself of course with all the irony that comes

[spring briar]

It hurts

[alpine onyx]

[delicate beacon]

It's because the author used to have or has a channel about dark things like underwater sounds and horror things called dark docs IIRC.

[delicate beacon]

Did Bismarck ever detonate?

Thought her wreck was whole.

[proud plume]

OOohhhhh

[alpine onyx]

Bismarck had an ammunition fire in one of her main magazines

It was of little consequence at that point since she was already a crippled wreck and they managed to put it out via flooding, but technically...

[tough quail]

the fucked up thing is that it'd probably be kinder to the ones that got left in the water

[delicate beacon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP1z0mfsNVY

[manic latch]

@tough quail

[rapid junco]

@delicate beacon
What do you think of this little feller?

[delicate beacon]

Looks cute

[rapid junco]

It's one of the few Dutch built ships we still have in operation

Like
We only have 4 Dutch built ships
Which are like, 4.2% of the total fleet
This is one
It's Potengi
A riverine logistical support ship
She's just as old as monitor Parnaíba (1938)

Until 1996 she operated as an riverine oiler
But when monitor Parnaíba was converted from an oil burning boiler to a diesel engine
Potengi was converted into a logistics ship
She have the same capacity of cargo carrying as from her days of oil
460 tons

Her builder is N.Y. Scheeps Boower

[delicate beacon]

NY Scheeps Boower?

    Built by: De Merwede, Hardinxveld, The Netherlands
    Launched: 1938.03.16
    Commisioned: 1938.06.28
    Dimensions : 54.5 m long , 7.5 m wide and 1.8 m draft .
    Displacement: 594 tons ( loaded) .
    Propulsion: diesel , 2 Krohout diesel generating 500 bhp , coupled to two shafts with fixed pitch propellers .
    Speed: Maximum 10 knots .
    Crew: 19 men .
    Callsign: PWGY ( PXGY )```

[dapper parcel]

that's remarkably unremarkable company name

[delicate beacon]

Yeah, I think he meant N.V. Scheeps Bouwer

Which translates to Limited, Ship builder.

[rapid junco]

Maybe i should contact someone to change that on NGB
Althought it's an old website

[rapid junco]

What its your English source?

[delicate beacon]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:G17_Potengi_(ship,_1938)

Found with google.

Not very credible.

[rapid junco]

Ah

Well
He basically copied and pasted the info from NGB
Which means it's good info

I'll show the other three Dutch built ships we operate

Riverine transport ship Paraguassú (operates in the same flotilla as Potengi)
Built by Amsterdam Droogdok

Corvette "Caboclo" (the last of the Imperial Marinheiro class still active)

And lastly
Cisne Branco, our tallship

[delicate beacon]

tall

[rapid junco]

I need to translate the pie chart i made with the countries of origin of the 96 ships we have on the Brazilian Navy's Official Silhouette Board

But all i can say for now is that 4.2% of the fleet have Dutch origins

[maiden citrus]

hood seems like a bit of a jump when some nations are still using only 12''

[tough quail]

just a bit

teensy bit

like i said earlier it's like dumping a t-44-100 into a pziv/sherman/cromwell brawl

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwolf

[exotic scarab]

does anyone know if legally I can get a replica of that in my backyard (im in america)

[humble mulch]

I’m pretty sure Terbuchets aren’t named out right in any laws here and are more likely to be 100% legal. Only problem would actually be a fucking HOA sending some Karen’s after you

[frigid karma]

Not just any Sherman fuckboy

But I digress

I heard some rumors that they’re adding Yama to squeeze some last bucks out of naval

[ivory ridge]

lol

lmao

[frigid karma]

rofl

[manic latch]

Naval got potential. But aiming is still horrible experience

[manic latch]

No way she is coming before Nagato

410mms should blow up anything in game currently anyway

[ivory ridge]

no way hyuuga would comes before kongou-- wait

no wait hood comes before QE and renown... wait

[manic latch]

Scharn did come before Biscuit

[humble mulch]

You're like

1/9

They will 100% just put Yamato in thr game with no consideration for other tech trees

Case and point, literally every large bb ship so far

[tough quail]

and

[eternal veldt]

If there's anything illegal about the Ryujo...

As the day of the handover to the navy draws near, the designer ordered the fitting out workers to work overnight to hasten the process - the next day he came to the dockyard, he heard some news: An officer monitoring the work of the Ryuujou got piss drunk and wanted to sleep - but the carrier's fitting out work was so noisy that he took a pole, started chasing the workers down and beating them - one worker even injured his face while running away. Angered, he ordered his workers to stop working, and the workers all got off the ship - but just as he wondered how to sort the mess out, the sheepish officer came in front of the designer, apologized, and got punished - the workers resumed their work.

le IJN drunkenness and abusement

[exotic scarab]

good thing I dont have one

[strong plank]

probably as legal as owning a cannon

which is in fact legal

[humble mulch]

yes

[dapper parcel]

..or the fact that 8x8 hardwood cost a shit ton

[humble mulch]

you dont need to make it from hard wood

We have

Steel

[exotic scarab]

but steel does not make the wood creaking sound and thats like the best part

[humble mulch]

Understandable

[oblique glen]

if they add yamato they better add the gulf war NJ

[eternal veldt]

Why?

[oblique glen]

balance

[humble mulch]

[eternal veldt]

As if NJ isnt broken as fuck already

[humble mulch]

That's not balance at all

Also we were talking about WT naval up there

Not AL

[oblique glen]

i know

[eternal veldt]

My bad. Gulf War NJ is still why.

[oblique glen]

I know.

I play naval

I grinded half of the uhh

[eternal veldt]

The WWII one is fine for WT

[oblique glen]

Indianapolis???? N one battle

[eternal veldt]

If anything, the shitload of AA makes it more appealing

[oblique glen]

hmmmm

[eternal veldt]

50＋oerlikons

80 bofors

80

[oblique glen]

USS West Virginia refit would be a good premium BB

Same FCS as the Iowas

Should've saved the Colorados... could've had some backup Iowas...

[eternal veldt]

You mean preserve the Colorados to now?

Simply not feasible

[oblique glen]

Simply very feasible

[eternal veldt]

Where your money?

[oblique glen]

Why should NJ get a museum ship but not WV

good question

[eternal veldt]

Where your maintenance fees?

[humble mulch]

That's not at all how it works

[oblique glen]

uh

Im broke

[eternal veldt]

And more importantly

[oblique glen]

dont ask me

[eternal veldt]

How old is WV?

[oblique glen]

1920s

not tooooo ikd

[eternal veldt]

20 years older than NJ

[oblique glen]

Old*

[eternal veldt]

Simply not worth the money in the post war navy

[oblique glen]

Practically the dame guns

[eternal veldt]

Lmfao no

[humble mulch]

Can't just scream and cry about keeping a ship when you literally cannot afford to keep it moored somewhere and they make no money as museum ships

[eternal veldt]

The 16"/45 Mark 5 fired AP Mk 5 shells

[humble mulch]

That's why we have so few

[eternal veldt]

Iowa's 16"/50 AP mark 8s

[oblique glen]

saves super dreadnought
doesn't have missiles
nobody comes to visit it
everyone visits the Missouri and NJ because of Battleship

[eternal veldt]

Just as a note, the SoDak, NC Museums were all cannibalized to reactivate the Iowas

[oblique glen]

suddenly make several million dollars in a year because of FO76

[eternal veldt]

Even Texas is in a rather shit state as it is

Drydock soon™️ for god knows how much longer

[oblique glen]

thanks america

smh

why does nobody wanna visit a battleship

Whats so good about LA and NYC

[eternal veldt]

Becauss not everyone is into WWII history?

[humble mulch]

No everyone wants to travel to an expensive city either

[eternal veldt]

The naval front especially

[humble mulch]

I've only been to Iowa cause she's in driving distance from me

[eternal veldt]

Why do you think naval models are so lackluster compared to the absolute giants that is AFV and plane modelling

[humble mulch]

But like I'm not going to see Bama

[eternal veldt]

Because naval history as it stands is a niche hobby

Some people like me drool over the details

[humble mulch]

It's the more Niche one out of the war models

[eternal veldt]

Others just pay a visit to it because "oh hey, famous ship, gotta do selfies"

Furthermore, some naval museums are just parked at absolute shit spots

The French cruiser Colbert is an eyesore to the entire neighbourhood; The destroyer Barry was about to be sealed off by new infrastructure

Both were sent off to the scrapyard even though they were museum ships

And more recently we have the INS Vikrant

Scrapped because no 💰

The traditional joke stands true

[humble mulch]

Yeah there's not really a good amount of places to actually toss a ship especially after zoning and all that has been done, and its not cheap either to get water front land for basically a permanent lease

[oblique glen]

The government willingly scraps museum ships?

[eternal veldt]

"Its not the initial cost that breaks you, it's the maintenance"

[humble mulch]

It's not even the government

[oblique glen]

why is waterfront land so valuable

[eternal veldt]

A ship left ill-maintained is just a horrific sight

[oblique glen]

it has no worth

It just looks nice

[humble mulch]

It's waterfront land

[eternal veldt]

Except it doesnt

[humble mulch]

That's LITERALLY the reason

[oblique glen]

you can get a boat in the water and look at the ocean big whoop

you get a hurricane or earthquake and you're the first to go

[eternal veldt]

Imagine you're living here

[oblique glen]

oh right because everyone loves the beach and businesses love the free business

[humble mulch]

You have a very flawed world view on coastal stuff

[oblique glen]

I'd love it

[eternal veldt]

Every fucking day multiple tourists come here and makea a ruckus

All the way until 11PM

[oblique glen]

I'm from West Virginia

[eternal veldt]

You have a wide sea view obstructed by a fucking lattice mast

[oblique glen]

Oh right... Tourists.

[eternal veldt]

Id be fucking pissed

[humble mulch]

Water ways are major for trade and what not, and are pricey because how cities usually grow around water, so it's prime real estate for everything

[oblique glen]

What's so good about a sea view though? Why is it so expensive? You can't farm on it. All there is to it is trade

[eternal veldt]

It helps people relax

[humble mulch]

It's nice

[eternal veldt]

Thats why its called scenery

[oblique glen]

gl relaxing when only the world's richest can afford it

No good reason for a bit of land to go for millions

[eternal veldt]

So? It's their property

And they dont want that eyesore

Or just people shitting or pissing themselves late at night

[oblique glen]

then pay for it to go to an actual dock or something

[eternal veldt]

Or a baby howling suddenly

[oblique glen]

or idk don't welcome tourists

[eternal veldt]

Where the money?

[humble mulch]

Tourists are the only way museum ships make money bro

[eternal veldt]

The navy is not about to relinquish a piece of valuable metal to the public

[humble mulch]

It's not like an HOA near it pays for it

[oblique glen]

right

[eternal veldt]

Sentimental feeling is not a factor here

[oblique glen]

you know maybe the mountaineer redneck hick shouldn't be speaking on rich people beach city

[eternal veldt]

If nobody raises enough money to buy it off

[oblique glen]

My "city" has 5-600 people

[eternal veldt]

They sell it to scrappers for money

[humble mulch]

Navy's usually turn down museum ship proposition unless they have a fuck ton of funding or some deal worked out

[oblique glen]

cringe

[eternal veldt]

And some ships simply arent worth salvaging

[oblique glen]

Aight

[humble mulch]

Scrapping ships also helps jobs and stuff at those ship yards the navy's have contracted

[oblique glen]

I'm gonna buy the nagato and turn it into apartment's in Ohio

[eternal veldt]

Ships as badly damaged as say...Enterprise

[humble mulch]

So it's probably better

[eternal veldt]

And again, the initial cost is the easy part

[oblique glen]

why not, instead of a museum ship, beach the vessel and turn it into housing?

[eternal veldt]

Once you buy the ship off, it's your ass on the line

[humble mulch]

Why would you do that

[oblique glen]

i dunno

Maybe rich people would wanna live in a decked out carrier

[eternal veldt]

No, they dont.

[humble mulch]

That's not how housing works nor would a ship be a good idea for it

[eternal veldt]

A ship doesnt use walls

[oblique glen]

WAIT I JUST REALISED

[eternal veldt]

They have bulkheads

[oblique glen]

China turned a Kuznetsov into a theme park... or put it into one

[humble mulch]

Like most don't even live in yachts year round

Yeah

[eternal veldt]

Kiev herself, yes

[humble mulch]

It's a museum ship with a bunch of extra steps

[eternal veldt]

But an expensive undertaking

[oblique glen]

Why not turn it into a theme park kinda deal?

dang

[humble mulch]

It's still not done yet either

[eternal veldt]

Its done tea

[oblique glen]

Maybe ships really are too expensive to have them sit around

[humble mulch]

Oh it is?

[eternal veldt]

But with covid and shit

Its not looking good

[humble mulch]

Ah yeah

I thought covid put it on pause

[oblique glen]

Or even be worth keeping around if they do anything that isn't moving massive amounts of cargo

[eternal veldt]

Yes, ships are difficult to maintain

[humble mulch]

Didn't realize it was actually done

[eternal veldt]

Becauss what a surprise

[oblique glen]

water likes to eat stuff

[eternal veldt]

Metal on water makes it degrade

[oblique glen]

saltwater+oxygen on metal is a big no no

[eternal veldt]

Im sure youve seen what happened to the Sullivans

[oblique glen]

Beach the ship and/or disassemble then reassemble it a bit inland

Yeah

[eternal veldt]

The symptoms were already there years ago

A worker dropped a wrench and it punched clean through the bottom

Thats how fucked she is under poor maintenance

[oblique glen]

Wouldn't this work with using one of those huge crawlers NASA uses for moving rockets

[eternal veldt]

Again, why would you do that

[oblique glen]

Or doing what they did with the Spruce Goose and taking it apart then rebuilding it

[eternal veldt]

Just build a new fucking thing

[oblique glen]

Preservation. Can't fall apart if it ain't in the water

[eternal veldt]

Its way cheaper without the limitations of a ship hull

[oblique glen]

looks at the Spruce Goose in a museum

True...

You can build everything above the waterline and ignore the rest

And have that be the museum

Heck

[humble mulch]

At that point make replicas in ohio

[eternal veldt]

And I have to remind you, not everyone is on board of preserving a ship

[oblique glen]

Just build replicas of everything deck level and above in a city park

[humble mulch]

It's fucking cheaper

[eternal veldt]

Some of Enterprise's veterans were vehement that she not be preserved

Because in their eyes, the ship deserves dignity and not be visited by civvies like a clown car

[oblique glen]

Yeah

[eternal veldt]

So you have internal and external resistance

[oblique glen]

maybe scrapping the majority of the ship, then saving, say, the bridge, for display would work

Put ir in a city park somewhere or in a naval museum

better for education than waow!!! $1,000 tour!

[eternal veldt]

Thats exactly what is done

[oblique glen]

I reinvented the wheel

[eternal veldt]

Portland's mast, Derfflinger's bells, are all on display

[oblique glen]

West Virginia's mast

That'd be an interesting project... building a replica of the bow turrets and the forward portion of the superstructure

[humble mulch]

Lots of bells are on display

Bro imma buy land in Ohio

[oblique glen]

I think they saved WV's bells

[humble mulch]

And make hiryus deck

LEFT ISLAND GANG

[oblique glen]

The USS Huntington's name plate is preserved in the middle of nowhere

[humble mulch]

Make it a small airport in fucking the middle of no where

[oblique glen]

I'm pretty sure a Colorado or Iowa turret is about the size of my house xd

[humble mulch]

They are huge

[oblique glen]

So I could comfortably live in one

i know

[strong plank]

Enterprise’s bell is at the naval academy

And her nameplate is in NJ

[eternal veldt]

Actually, a reminder

Shangri-La's nameplate is outside the scrapper's office in Kaoshiung

caked in rust

[oblique glen]

This is where my favorite cruiser's remains lie

The nameplate of the USS Huntington, CL-107

that'd be a cool park...

Building a replica of a turret from each major American BB class

s u p e r i m p o s e d

THIS

build a replica of this

USS Kearsage when

[dark spade]

Hey sorry I know this is not a naval history question but what eastern front city battle lasted for years in all weather? I thought lenin and stalin grad but stalin was only 3 months and lenin grad lasted for years but I hear it was only the city outskirts so little city combat.

[oblique glen]

uhh

Mosxow?

Cripe

Warsaw?

[dark spade]

Did they ever actually get into moscow?

[oblique glen]

No

[humble mulch]

Some of the Chinese battles were constant enough to be call full fights

[maiden citrus]

yup, saw it last time I was up there though it's the acr wv bell, there's a few weevee things around though

I think they even have a 5''/38 iirc

[desert agate]

HMAS Brisbane at the AWM Canberra

A very very landlocked city

[oblique glen]

The ACR bell?!?!
They actuallt preserved WV/Huntington?!

Yo!

I need to go up there sometime lol

[oblique glen]

If I get some good money I'll build a replica of WV's bridge and turret

Nice.

[proud plume]

That looks sweet

[oblique glen]

I know

I want to replicate it for fun

heheh

useless tho

[frigid karma]

It’s fine, this channel is general history

And sometimes off topic

[digital mason]

you can mostly point to a random russian city and say that one

[frigid karma]

@tough quail

https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/uu7k5g/m1895_nagant_revolver_with_an_axestock_used_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Russian navy sidearm

[delicate beacon]

Dont think many cities were fought over for long.

[tough quail]

immensely based

it depends on what you define as "long"

there's a good few protracted sieges

and then there's absurdity like leningrad

[frigid karma]

“Haha! He’s out of rounds!

Why is he throwing that at me”

[tough quail]

truly reliable weapon

not even needing boolet

[desert agate]

Real Russians don't need silly things like ammunition

Aggressor at the entrance reference

[tough quail]

oh i thought it was a tww 3 reference

[solid mango]

finished cursed Fuso, cursed Montpeiler is next

[alpine onyx]

You call that cursed, I say it's now better than historical Fusou

Tho needs some small and medium caliber AA on top, but that's a detail

[spring briar]

Better than Nagato even

50% better

[alpine onyx]

Can finally breathe in the machinery spaces

[maiden citrus]

I was thinking that too but didn't post lol

[spring briar]

IJNboos don't want you to see this

[alpine onyx]

Trading some of the awful main guns and the awful 152s in horrible positions for much improved internal layouts, one of the best CL guns in triple turrets and a glorious heavy AA battery

I call it a win

[spring briar]

Lorraine time

[alpine onyx]

Pat the Lorraine

[spring briar]

she a cutie

I hope we get her in some game at some point

[humble mulch]

Yeah fixing the fucking cramped machinery is a dub, and the AA and sec bats are chiefs kiss

[alpine onyx]

Wish I had this plan for post modernization, but I doubt that it got that much better

auxiliary machinery just getting thrown into any corner that was empty

[spring briar]

[humble mulch]

Is that a cruiser

[spring briar]

yes

[humble mulch]

Or a small BC

Very cute

[alpine onyx]

Isn't that the 17,500t cruiser killer?

[spring briar]

yep

with massively nerfed guns

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

(798 mps vs historical 965 mps)

and only 45 cal. vs 55 cal.

could've easily been a tier 8-9 cruiser

[manic latch]

Know the feel

Giving Kremlin 48 cal vs planned 55 cal

Maybe WG hates the 55 cal

[spring briar]

yes but kremlin has high muzzle velocity still

[manic latch]

True. But 1300?kg shell instead 1720kg

[spring briar]

source on the 1720 kg?

[manic latch]

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/457-мм/55_морское_орудие

Here

There is two shells

One with 1720kg weight but 820m/s velocity

And 1460kg weight but 870m/s velocity

620kg charge weight

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

(also a year later there were projects of battleships with guns of even larger caliber - 500 and 530 mm)```

fake

also

In the project, the weight of the projectile could be from 1580 to 1720 kg

[manic latch]

Not fake. Early Soyuz concepts did that that 500-530mm in mind

Tho of course they pass to 406-457-356mm limit as logical choice later

Unlike Germans that got bigger as new designs come

[spring briar]

give me an official source for that and I might believe it

[junior trench]

sekrit dokumints

duh

[manic latch]

Got the info ready on 1935 460-456-450mm designs. But fine you gonna make me search the 500mm

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

how about info for literally any of them

[manic latch]

Here, with translation

[junior trench]

that's not a .

*not a source

[spring briar]

not an official source indeed

[manic latch]

This book

Васильев А. М.,Морин А. Б
Суперлинкоры Сталина. «Советский Союз», «Кронштадт», «Сталинград»

Vasiliev A. M., Morin A. B
 "Soviet Union", "Kronstadt", "Stalingrad"

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

do you have a page number or a digital copy

because rn all we have is a screenshot from ???, a pixelated book cover, and a name

[spring briar]

pretty sure I have that book as a pdf

nvm wrong book

[manic latch]

I do. But before I do that I will also post Mclaughlin's writing

Which is English

From the book Russian and Soviet Battleships by Stephen Mclaughlin

[spring briar]

9 500mm guns
500mm belt

ah yes

realistic

[manic latch]

It's a Tillman boner. It was never considered as serious

[junior trench]

that's a near direct copy of the passage from the Russian source

and...

lmao

it's circular sourcing

[manic latch]

@spring briar https://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/1002749/superlinkory-stalina-sovetskiy-soyuz-kronshtadt-stalingrad.html

Here the link

[junior trench]

there's only two sources the authors didn't write themselves

[spring briar]

they thinking up shit like this but then fail to even get 5 acceptable light cruisers

[junior trench]

and the primary documentation is laughable

[manic latch]

Yeah invasion hurts the construction and fixing it seems

You French should know it the most

[junior trench]

no

[spring briar]

well we managed to mostly fix dunkerque, strasbourg among other ships

[manic latch]

Yet couldn't continue with Alsace's project. And couldn't fit the Jean Bart turret in time

Since you know. Germans

[junior trench]

preeeetty sure Richelieu is talking the Kirov garbage fire

of which 4 are finished by June of 1941

[manic latch]

Yes

[junior trench]

and the only delays related to war for those are related to cocking up the invasion of Finland and shuffling resources around after helping to kick off WW2 in Europe

[manic latch]

Is this American education

Kinda scary ngl

[desert agate]

Poland was clearly only invaded by 1 country

[junior trench]

wait

lemme try something

@manic latch who perpetrated the killings at Katyn?

[manic latch]

NKVD

[junior trench]

and how did they get there?

[manic latch]

Soviet Invasion of Poland?

[desert agate]

Imperialism naturally

4 years for Gorky and Molotov

Is an oof and a half

Given the first 2 "only" took 3 years

On sub 10k ton cruisers

[manic latch]

Well yes Italian assistance was needed while building the new infrastructure

Since most important things of shipbuilding were lost during the revolution

Likely what doomed Izmail sisters after the revolution

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/708138174853021797/958376002457833523/fumb-1.gif

[manic latch]

Spanish war ruined Italian X Soviet relationship

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Yet the technical assistance continued despite that. There were Italian Constructors at Soviet shipyards up to the declaration of hostilities in June 1941

In 1931. Soviets also ordered equipments for Leningrad class from Italy. Including rangefinders and fire control computers from the Galileo

[chilly osprey]

3 years for a cruiser isn't that bad of a construction time, TBF

If you're talking from being laid down to commissioning

[manic latch]

It's called Soviet= Bad

[desert agate]

Norleans took 2

[chilly osprey]

Now, when you consider the state of the ships given the modifications the Soviets decided to introduce... Well, that's more the indictment on the cruisers

[desert agate]

Australia took 2.5

[chilly osprey]

NOLAs are;

A) Being built by the Americans

B) Mostly took about 3 years

Usually about 2 years from being laid down to launching, and then about a year fitting out

[manic latch]

Wait. Isn't that the John Brown and Company's product

Ain't they already advanced on shipbuilding

Yeah they are the builders of Hood

[chilly osprey]

As a general rule of thumb, the British and Americans had some of the most advanced and fastest-paced construction anywhere, so again it's a bit unfair to use them as a measuring stick.

And even then many of the Kent-class took about 3.5 years to built

[manic latch]

[calm glen]

is it just me or hms unicorn was the only ship of her class?

[chilly osprey]

She was a one-off, yeah

[rapid junco]

@spring briar

[spring briar]

astérix!

[delicate beacon]

• & +

[rapid junco]

For Obelix i already showed the flag of NAe São Paulo's Department of Aviation

[manic latch]

Yes. Aircraft repair ship

She was the first ship built in any navy that could "carry out the full range of aircraft maintenance and repair work in addition to the ability to operate aircraft from the flight deck"

[calm glen]

[junior trench]

that's a pretty lofty claim considering how extensive the spare parts stores and repair shops on a full sized fleet carrier are

the volume will be different, but the capability?

unlikely

[desert agate]

indeed, especially compared to American carriers

[junior trench]

the overhead handling measures in a USN CV's hangar sure come in handy

[desert agate]

the Lustys own repair facilities left a lot to be desired though, which necessitated Unicorn and her successors

[manic latch]

This claim was done by Hobbs, David, Commander (2007). Moving Bases: Royal Navy Maintenance Carriers and MONABs.

[junior trench]

k

[manic latch]

Did Perseus and Pioneer had better performance after their modification to this role?

[desert agate]

perseus and pioneer basically never operated in their designed role

pioneer repaired a grand total of 24 planes before wars end, then was sent to reserve

[manic latch]

Why they weren't able to land aircraft?

[desert agate]

and perseus ferried planes back to the UK from Australia before also being sent to reserve

no, they commissioned in in mid 1945

Perseus after wars end and Pioneer in May

[calm glen]

Bruh, how tf centaur heavier than lusty despite it's classified as"cvl"

[desert agate]

they probably would have performed better but they were never placed under the strain of supporting constant frontline combat operations

[manic latch]

[junior trench]

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/America/United_States/_Topics/history/_Texts/AHUNAW/31*.html

In those few cases where major repairs were performed in combat areas, Aircraft Repair and Overhaul units, AROU's in naval parlance, handled the job. Such units operated from our bases at Noumea, Guadalcanal, and Espiritu Santo. By far the most numerous and versatile of these units, however, were the Carrier Aircraft Service units, commonly called CASU's. A few weeks after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor the first four CASU's were commissioned began to operate in the Hawaiian area. Because CASU's maintained most types of combat aircraft including fighters, fighter-bombers, torpedo planes, dive bombers, and night fighters in the later phase of the war, they were redesignated Combat Aircraft Service units, or CASU (F)'s (the [F] indicated Forward Area). During some of the Pacific island campaigns they supported marine, army and Allied combat aircraft as well as their regular navy charges. While all CASU's were theoretically stamped from the same mold, much of their value stemmed from their flexibility. Those units which operated in combat zones concentrated their efforts on keeping their squadrons in the air, while CASU's based in the United States or Hawaii assumed the added responsibilities of receiving new planes, training personnel in their duties and commissioning men and planes as squadrons. This function of the CASU's operating from permanent naval air stations was especially important because they were responsible for organizing and training the service units that maintained aircraft aboard aircraft carriers, the Carrier Aircraft Service divisions, or CASD's. Quite often experienced CASU personnel became the nuclei for new CASD's in process of formation.

the US Navy preferred to do any major work from a land base, but every carrier had a service division capable of performing major overhaul work

[desert agate]

lusty is heavier fully loaded

[manic latch]

[junior trench]

unless the claim regarding Unicorn requires going so far as to involve things like the disassembly and replacement of worn parts in even engines

then it seems to just be one made due to the sheer ubiquity of the capability making it not notable

[manic latch]

Who was the standard carrier of British? Illustrious or Implacables? Since light carrier term is a carrier that's lighter than standard carrier of the navy right

[junior trench]

Lusty's*

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

lustys are measured usually in standard displacement because of treaties

centaur uses full load usually

my book doesnt have full load for the lustys

[desert agate]

implacable was just a redesigned lusty

[manic latch]

But free from limitations right

No 23k ton rule

[delicate beacon]

Also CVL doesn't always refer to displacement. It could also mean a carrier that is faster, which requires more weight.

[junior trench]

I can't think of any case of that off the top of my head

[manic latch]

Yet Centaur was 28 knot

While Implacable was 32.5

[delicate beacon]

[manic latch]

Lusty was 30.5

[desert agate]

yeah even the colossus/majestics only made 25

they were basically CVLs

[junior trench]

*and are made to civilian yard standards

[manic latch]

Centaur got better engines

[junior trench]

???

she's 24k tons full load

[desert agate]

centaur was 10'000t bigger

allowing her to put more displacement into machinery

[manic latch]

Indeed. While almost x2 hp difference

40k hp for Colossus while 78k for Centaur

[manic latch]

To think Chad Shimakaze had 75k hp

[desert agate]

centaurs were built to be the best light fleet carrier possible

colossus/majestics were built to be the easiest to build possible

in as short a timeframe

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

my book calls them the hermes class

[manic latch]

[junior trench]

Shima made 40.9 knots with 75k shp with a nominal displacement of 2570 tons.

Maury made 42.8 knots with 50k shp with a nominal displacement of 1500 tons.

Le Terrible made 45 knots with 73k shp with a nominal displacement of 2528 tons.

[desert agate]

one of the requirements for the centaurs was they be able to operate in fleet task forces, something not possible for the 25kn Colossus/Majestics, so they shoved in half of the engines of ark royal

[junior trench]

if anything, Shima is below average for what she managed

painfully so

when it comes to speed demons

[manic latch]

How did Le Terrible gain that superiority

Better hull design?

Propellers?

[desert agate]

French had exceptional engine designs

[manic latch]

So something like rpm?

[junior trench]

Tashkent makes 43.5 knots with 110k shp with a nominal displacement of 2840 tons.

which is actually one of the worst showings for the amount of horsepower

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

the Centaurs were close in size and capability to Illustrious with superior passive protection, with some claims that

1943 light fleet carriers could stay afloat with six main compartments flooded amidships, or with five flooded at the bow or stern

[junior trench]

Leningrad makes 43 knots with 60k shp with a nominal displacement of 2350 tons.

[spring briar]

boilers rated at 325°C (225°C + 100°C super heating) but were able to do 360-370°C pretty comfortably

[junior trench]

what this tells us is that Tashkent is fucking fat

[spring briar]

bad Froude number

[delicate beacon]

Kremlin

[manic latch]

Wrong reply

Shit

[spring briar]

also Le Terrible's propellors were of a new and improved type

[manic latch]

[somber knoll]

Hm, so propulsion also plays a factor

[desert agate]

the main weapons of any warship, are its engines

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

Irrc, NC's vibration issues was solved by a simple change on propellers alone

[junior trench]

The Gridleys' boilers were a significant upgrade from the Mahan class, with steam pressure increased from 465 psi (3,210 kPa) to 565 psi (3,900 kPa), superheated in both cases to 700 °F (371 °C).
Friedman, Norman (2004). US Destroyers: An Illustrated Design History (Revised Edition). Annapolis: Naval Institute Press. ISBN 1-55750-442-3.

*and those engines aren't even the final form

[desert agate]

SS United States designers using dozens of propeller designs because she keeps fucking shaking

[somber knoll]

It's like land vehicles really. 500 horsepower, conventional front wheel drive vs 350 hp rear wheel drive. the 350 can outrun the 500 rather easily

*400 I mean

[manic latch]

Tfw French wasn't willing to share ship plans with Soviets during 1930s. So Italy friendship was made

[spring briar]

[rapid junco]

Speed is armour?

[desert agate]

[somber knoll]

Thermal efficiency is pog

[delicate beacon]

Speed is firepower

[manic latch]

Imagine NC's vibration issue was never fixed. She would be stuck at 23 knot max speed limitation. Would that doom Iowa's fate?

[delicate beacon]

Firepower is armour

Armour is speed?

[desert agate]

i have so many fisher emotes

what the fuck

[ivory ridge]

[rapid junco]

I need to create emoji's from my country's naval personalities

[desert agate]

[ivory ridge]

[desert agate]

hes

so

fucking

F A S T

[dapper parcel]

nah, the machinery itself doesn't contribute to speed once you got baseline shp (unless you somehow spectacularly mismatch the shaft speed). It's almost certainly hullform and propeller

[rapid junco]

Wouldn't this make the perfect "Bruh" emoji?

[junior trench]

Fletcher class
https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/steam/sec06.htm

The maximum operating pressure of the boiler is 615 p.s.i. in the steam drum, and the maximum allowable temperature of the steam leaving the boiler is 850 degrees F

[manic latch]

Give Allen Data

[spring briar]

yes but if your propulsion can't make your ship run at it's optimal RPM you're screwed

[junior trench]

it's the same

the manual is for the DD445 and DD692 classes

[manic latch]

[dapper parcel]

RPM matching should be solved through proper gearing during design

[spring briar]

the fantasque's bridge was even streamlined

[manic latch]

So who had the best engines for destroyers by the time of 1945

[chilly osprey]

Le Terrible 's famous 45.07 knot run was 94,353 CV, or about 93k shp.

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

thinking of what could have been

[spring briar]

what is your criterion?

[manic latch]

Kinda empty slap more launchers

[manic latch]

Let's call it. Reliable and efficient

[junior trench]

either USN or RN

USN if you bias towards the performance

[desert agate]

4000t
more launchers
6 harpoons already

[junior trench]

off the top of my head

[desert agate]

sir please

[manic latch]

[junior trench]

RN machinery is sometimes painfully conservative

[chilly osprey]

Her normal trials, conducted at normal load (2,853t) saw her do about 43 knots on 86k shp and 43.78 knots at 90k shp, and her service speed at normal power (73k shp) was about 40-41 knots

[junior trench]

but that also mean it just runs

[manic latch]

That empty place near funnel looks juicy

Put something there

[junior trench]

USN boilers and machinery was an envy producing mix of cutting edge and actually working reliably

unlike German boilers and machinery

[desert agate]

theyre already better armed than the charles f adams that ended up replacing the cancelled program

[junior trench]

France crams a shit load of performance into a very small package but has some problems along the way afaik

[desert agate]

probably would have been given ikara around there

[junior trench]

Japan was just... uninspired, relatively speaking

Italy idk, don't know enough to comment

[chilly osprey]

Italian machinery, at the destroyer level, was pretty mundane.

[spring briar]

the big problems were around the implementation of superheated boilers in Milan/Erpevier
and the same model was fitted on the Fantasques before those on Milan/Erpevier were optimised
but as far as french boilers during the war are concerned they performed well with a tendency to foul
but that might've been due to the operation in the hot pacific climate

[somber knoll]

were the painfully wasteful British boilers just on the case of KGV? since I think the cruisers were efficient.

[junior trench]

I think there's a strong revisionist push around those numbers atm

for KGV

[somber knoll]

like

8k nmi for a full tank of gas (relatively speaking) was... making her a big eater.

[junior trench]

but afaik, like a lot of it, it revolves around using reports from the RN that just say things are satisfactory, but kind of ignore that things can still stack up poorly in a comparative way, even if they're satisfactory for the user

[chilly osprey]

Usually reliable enough in service at normal operating levels, though the constant tempo of operations meant a lot of ships were running their engines constantly, often stressing them when it came to high speeds, and not often getting a chance to give them an overhaul when needed. So by the end of the war a lot of ships were having reliability issues.

By far the biggest issue for RM DDs in terms of machinery was just that it was thirsty (which hindered endurance) and the fact every design ended up seeing significant weight growth during the war meant few operating at their intended displacement, and thus typical top speed in service tended to not be the intended 38 knots.

[alpine onyx]

Satisfactory is a strechable term

[manic latch]

[alpine onyx]

Japanese were "satisfied" with the performance of their 25mm gun

[spring briar]

at like
sub 80 meters

[junior trench]

like

[somber knoll]

ouch

[junior trench]

afaik the 5.25" gun revisionism is around reports that say they perform as expected and satisfactorily

but it's kind of... devoid of content

[spring briar]

isn't that the exact same evaluation of the german 105

[junior trench]

essentially

[somber knoll]

"as expected"

[dapper parcel]

Be careful there extrapolating between performance and efficiency, since machinery for flank speed and cruise speed are literally separate

[alpine onyx]

Not quite since my main goal with the combat reports is to find data on their reliability

[manic latch]

Problem of Soviets was they always wanted "the best" from the foreign countries they wanted assistance.
Like in 1939, Soviets thought to have destroyer leader build in United States, but Navy Department said something based on Mahan class would be permissible only. Soviets disliked it since the design was from 1933 and was no longer up to date

[junior trench]

???

basing off the Mahan class nets you a baseline that's up to overseas standards in regards to the machinery

and as a non-signatory you can enlarge from there

[alpine onyx]

And the difference between "gun breaks down all the time lol" and what the reports describe is quite big

[junior trench]

not too much obvs

[somber knoll]

I know, that number was for cruising speed.

I did had read a bit about her engagement and flanking range, tho when looking at her actual performance it's... a bit contradicting to say the least.

[manic latch]

I think they would prefer something like Bagley or Somers class

Or maybe even Sims?

[somber knoll]

ain't problem being the Brits defined DP a bit differently than the Americans did?

[alpine onyx]

iir the issue with KGV's endurance was twofold:

1. the cruising ranges were calculated excluding auxiliary machinery consumption
2. their intended cruising speeds were below those of American ships they operated alongside with, forcing them to go above their more economical speeds

[manic latch]

Did they fixed this problem on Vanguard?

[somber knoll]

cause for all I know the KGVs can just take the Nelson's 6 inchers without problem

[alpine onyx]

Not gonna blame them for 2., but 1. is somewhat embarrassing

Vanguard's endurance wasn't all that much better if at all

[somber knoll]

Yeah, 15 knots vs what, 10 or 12?

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

oh speaking of shima drach just uploaded a video on her

[junior trench]

shima_discovers_you_can't_outsail_planes.mp4

[alpine onyx]

Also I think there was an issue with the fuel purification system since the outboard bunkers would be filled with seawater as fuel was getting pumped out, so the system had to first seperate fuel from seawater before they could use it for burning with the delivery rates of those filters being not quite up to the task

[desert agate]

just go faster 5head

[manic latch]

Why Mass produced versions of Shima was called super Shima?

[desert agate]

[manic latch]

According to plan that is

Stats look all the same

[spring briar]

and no parallel refueling

[junior trench]

... how do you forget about the auxiliary fuel consumption

[chrome shale]

Armament is speed.
Armor is speed.
Speed is more speed.
Reload is more cordite before big boom.

[junior trench]

then again, KGV's aux machinery got shoved into counterflooding compartment outboard main machinery/boilers...

[manic latch]

Ask Berci

[junior trench]

so it's not like they were only forgotten once...

[desert agate]

because theyre british

[spring briar]

machinery TDS

[desert agate]

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Exactly

[spring briar]

People wanking shima
Gridley's existing

[junior trench]

Gridley's with Mark 17 torpedoes

fucking give it to me

now

[spring briar]

mark 14's

[junior trench]

are on subs

[somber knoll]

[spring briar]

which sub had the boomerang torp again?

[somber knoll]

Not even Mark 16s can halp... rip USN WW2 torps.

[delicate beacon]

G7e?

Oh, you mean the one in the taiwan strait?

[junior trench]

???

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

1943 onwards the USN pulls ahead in warhead TNTe even compared to Japan

with Japan only coming back via the comically large mods to the Type 93

which afaik no one is really sure ever got to sea

[delicate beacon]

USS Tang?

[junior trench]

was sunk by a copy of the G7e

not a Mark 14

[spring briar]

still pretty sad

that puts her with Maillé Brézé in the "I got killed by my own torps" category

[somber knoll]

I was meme-ing. I understood that Mark 16 was a much, much needed improvement over the Mk 14 (I mean, the unfinished mega floof was sunk by it fired from Archerfish iirc)

[junior trench]

???

[somber knoll]

wait, Archie still carried mark 14s?

[junior trench]

the late-mod Mark 14 is running straight with a warhead that's equivalent to ~450kg of TNT

990 pounds

which exceeds the TDS of any BB other than KGV's erroneous 1000 pound rating

[spring briar]

takes a look at BB TDS
compares richie, NC and Sodak to KGV
tf is this shit

[junior trench]

and the late-model Mark 13 is just a freak of nature that you can drop from a Corsair at max speed from 2km up and have run straight and up

with a warhead equiv to 900 pounds of TNT

which, again, exceeds any TDS rating

[alpine onyx]

could be worse TDS

could be Yamato

[junior trench]

even if Yammy's TDS didn't have the flawed joint, being void only and getting smacked with warheads like that is just

[somber knoll]

Oh yeah, the fixes were pretty much done by 1943.

[junior trench]

[alpine onyx]

and those beam shenanigans that will gladly transfer all shocks deep into the ship

[junior trench]

like

[somber knoll]

That's just yikes.

[junior trench]

just to reinforce what a fat fuck the Mark 13 is

[dapper parcel]

Hey, nice way to stop shockwave propagation

[junior trench]

the British Mark XV has a ~770 pound TNTe warhead

[manic latch]

What caused Japan to develop long lances

Especially the Mod3

[spring briar]

their doctrin

O-class

[dapper parcel]

I don't think the doctrine was even developed with long lance in mind

[alpine onyx]

and still gets rated better than IJN TDS

[junior trench]

The Type 91 Mod 3 Mod 7 manages to pull ahead, but already straight up has over 900 pounds of explosive in it

and one of the refit Standards was hit by one

afaik

[spring briar]

it's the other way around, no?

[manic latch]

Shimakaze with 100mm gun refit copium

[dapper parcel]

It actually feels like long lance was just happens. A long shelved project finally gaining several breakthrough development

[spring briar]

are you referring to the joint under the belt?

[junior trench]

the 45-36AN is a bit of a joke showing up with a 440 pound warhead

[junior trench]

yeah

[spring briar]

yikes

[manic latch]

I am wondering how she will perform in war thunder. Since Shimakaze torps already one shots every ship in the game

[chilly osprey]

Does WT even model TDS?

[manic latch]

Meanwhile WG just slaps random % damage reduction for torp belts

[manic latch]

kinda wondering that. I think they do

[dapper parcel]

doubt

[desert agate]

torp hits used to be a 1 hit kill no matter where you were hit

theyve changed it now

[dapper parcel]

unless they use some random empirycal formula

[desert agate]

but its still not accurate

[spring briar]

it's a function of holes and time

[alpine onyx]

[junior trench]

the F5b maxes out at ~550 pounds of hexanite, if anyone has the TNTe for hexanite handy

[manic latch]

Reserve torpedo boats one shooting Prinz Eugen with 200?kg torps

Good times

[spring briar]

KGV kinda has the same problem

where the joints are spaced in a way that they will just push the inner bulkhead inwards

force dissipation moment

[chilly osprey]

[chrome shale]

Why the Mk 14?

[manic latch]

[dapper parcel]

MGC at it again

[junior trench]

is that

[eternal veldt]

cough torpedo explosion force vented upwards into the toilets

[junior trench]

I was about to ask lol

[chilly osprey]

The one and only

[spring briar]

Japanese spray toilets

[chrome shale]

Why? Out of every single iteration-

[eternal veldt]

**Bidet

[spring briar]

tfw KGV only has 3 seperate layers of TDS
with individually thinner plates
and less depth
than French or US BB's

[eternal veldt]

Three?

IIRC the US running 7?

[manic latch]

Damn US media smh

[spring briar]

not counting past the outer torpedo bulkhead

[tough quail]

forrestal my beloved

[dapper parcel]

Forrest fire

[manic latch]

Know that feel

[eternal veldt]

Ah, four layers on NC.

[spring briar]

talking NC and sodak mostly

but yeah

[eternal veldt]

http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/WarDamageReports/WarDamageReportBB55/BB-55PlateV.JPG

[spring briar]

there's certainly smth fishy going on

if KGV with it's objectively worse TDS has a higher rating

[eternal veldt]

heh

fishy

[chilly osprey]

best part is one of the top comments is someone saying that it's bait, and QE below agreeing

[spring briar]

[delicate beacon]

Battlecruiser

[spring briar]

still want to know what the protection of richy's crumble zone self healing TDS was

[eternal veldt]

Break into the archives.

[spring briar]

the archives are protected by richie TDS

[eternal veldt]

So...hard to repair and flammable?

[chilly osprey]

French TDS in the 1930s and 40s be like:

"Everything is designed to resist 300 kg"

[spring briar]

but no actual values

just 300 kg or more

you take a guess

[manic latch]

Phoenix breaking Italian archives to find the engineer who put 150mm upper belt armor on Up-41

[tough quail]

horrifying 10m deep ultra tds on some alsace follow on

300kg

[junior trench]

there is

[eternal veldt]

How much was the warhead on the swordfish from Hermes?

175kg?

or was the hit outside the TDS/tapered at 50%

[spring briar]

what is the TDS near the shaft

because it was near the shaft

[eternal veldt]

Yea, I was wondering if it's out of the TDS

[manic latch]

Did KGV's TDS performed badly when Wales was sunk?

[eternal veldt]

PoW got nailed in a shaft

nothing's saving her

[eternal veldt]

Turn earlier, dodge the torp entirely

turn later, let the TDS eat the torp

[manic latch]

F

[eternal veldt]

turn at that moment, get fucked

[spring briar]

there was maybe a thin sliver of TDS there still
but it was in very shallow water so the shockwave rebounded a couple times

[chilly osprey]

It was entirely aft of the TDS, afaik

[manic latch]

What if. You put ERA plates behind the TDS's first plate

[eternal veldt]

10m TDS on Alsace?

[spring briar]

I just don't remember if it was on the shaft attaching point or just behind that

[chilly osprey]

The only time the modern TDS for the French ships got a chance to do into action is when Dunkerque had to eat the 1,377-kg of TNT in depth charges going off next to her

[spring briar]

[chilly osprey]

Which was obviously more than any TDS could handle

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

That's uh

two Type 93s, basically

[spring briar]

well it did its job to a degree

[eternal veldt]

There wouldn't be a crippled dunkerque if the mags weren't flooded as soon as the swordfishes appeared

[chilly osprey]

I mean, absolutely it reduced the scale of the damage. Just, there was no way it could have ever totally kept the damage out of the vital spaces

[spring briar]

french armor placement meant that shocks would always be lead away from the horizontal or vertical
which kept the structural beams in tact

which I find neat

[eternal veldt]

Was about to ask if Ranger tested Bart's TDS, then I remembered she fucked Bart with 1000lb bombs

[spring briar]

average joe sees 1000 lb bomb damage on JB
"reee all or nothing is shit"
"praise lord Bismarck"

[eternal veldt]

and yea, that looks like out of Riche's TDS.

and a mine doesn't exactly count as a torpedo...

[spring briar]

at that point it would be like hitting a Trento in the bottom of the hull

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

It looks more like VV's hit from Urge if you ask me

[spring briar]

I don't mean in terms of placement

[eternal veldt]

Not sure if it tore the prop blade off entirely like it happened to VV

[spring briar]

but in terms of protection

[chilly osprey]

I think you mean the aerial torpedo from the Albacore during Gaudo?

[eternal veldt]

Right, that was it.

Urge's hit was more forward.

[chilly osprey]

Urge's hit was around the no.3 turret, against the end of the TDS

[eternal veldt]

Yeap. Was lazy and didn't open the book. :x

[manic latch]

[chilly osprey]

ow.png

[somber knoll]

inb4 confetti shells

[spring briar]

@chilly osprey
Found a picture of the 340mm mle.1924 being operated by Germans at Normandie in 1944
The shells on the foreground are 194mm shells

[chilly osprey]

oh, nice

[spring briar]

I'm kinda intrigued by the star drawn on the tip of the 194

[eternal veldt]

3000 warthogs of Marc Mitscher

[manic latch]

Marat

[spring briar]

I'm more impressed by that ladder

look at it

[manic latch]

Nah Marat ladder is better

[spring briar]

give Marat to France

[manic latch]

Face gone

[somber knoll]

btw, lads do any of you have the data for a Jaguar-class torp boats?

[spring briar]

any ship named after something French should be returned to France
Agincourt
Crécy
Sans-Souci
Téméraire (Lion class)
Bonhomme Richard
Marat
Parizhaya Kommuna
etc

[manic latch]

@humble mulch Give Marat Purifier's ability

[chilly osprey]

Going from WW2 photos to a decapitated anime girl is some whiplash lol

[eternal veldt]

Phoenix, a question, don't remember on top of my head. Was the triple rudder system of the Littorio ever tested in combat? (i.e. main rudder jammed, need both aux rudders to steer ship)

[manic latch]

Shipgirl*

And she is still alive. Like Marat wise

[spring briar]

Marat was pretty dead

[tough quail]

i dont even believe that's real

[spring briar]

they just used her corpse

[tough quail]

that's a baiting shitpost

[chrome shale]

On life support

[manic latch]

Sadly with %25 firepower loss since frontal 305mm gone

[tough quail]

the sheer rage kept her heart beating

too angry to die

too many germans left to shell

[manic latch]

"Even in death I still serve"

[junior trench]

a dreadnought dreadnought

[tough quail]

hans the baltic is haunted

[spring briar]

nought dead

[tough quail]

worse news yet

the ghosts have guns

[manic latch]

@spring briar

[spring briar]

Spanish 305 mm anti-universe shell

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

that's more a spear than a fucking shell

[spring briar]

(the greenish brown ones)

[dapper parcel]

That must be pretty crazy twist rate

[spring briar]

I hope so for them

richie needed more powder than similar BB's just because of her crazy twist rate to stabilise these bad boys

[tender monolith]

did my eyes deceive me

someone posted yamato versus an A-10

[tough quail]

see see this is why richelieu i worse than bismarck the french were being bankrupted by powder demands

surrender monkeys destroyed again

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/YHpn9iQzdRc

[tough quail]

each day we stray further and further from god's light

[manic latch]

We got Scharn

[spring briar]

that shell is calculated as being the lowest possible drag shape

[manic latch]

Make a 406mm version and we have a deal

[spring briar]

we did
I just can't find any sketches or pictures

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

two 340mm guns were bored out

one to 380

and another to 406

[manic latch]

No French 450mm for Soyuz

[spring briar]

sorry

we were busy

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

also why would we share ballistic data like that

[dapper parcel]

Sometimes I wonder the wisdom of contracting for a whole new gun instead of one already on production