Because the UN is not earth.
#history
delicate beacon
unborn wyvern
It's not but it's the internationally recognized international organization that organizes earth things on a international level
maiden citrus
'how can this be the human flag there's not even a human on it'
rapid junco
the Veneto
dusty kraken
I cant believe we will send a copy of Elden Ring to aliens if we ever find them
digital mason
What is going on here
digital mason
oh no how will I ever recover from this
rapid junco
I dunno
Maybe german ship posting? 
delicate beacon
dense jackal
anyone i wanna know did alabama tried to fight tirpitz?
digital mason
anyone i wanna know did alabama tried to fight tirpitz?
it did but the Germans did not want to risk the Tirpitz so she stayed in the fjords
frigid karma
The XF-84H was almost certainly the loudest aircraft ever built, earning the nickname "Thunderscreech" as well as the "Mighty Ear Banger".[16] On the ground "run ups", the prototypes could reportedly be heard 25 miles (40 km) away.[17] Unlike standard propellers that turn at subsonic speeds, the outer 24–30 inches (61–76 cm) of the blades on the XF-84H's propeller traveled faster than the speed of sound even at idle thrust, producing a continuous visible sonic boom that radiated laterally from the propellers for hundreds of yards. The shock wave was actually powerful enough to knock a man down; an unfortunate crew chief who was inside a nearby C-47 was severely incapacitated during a 30-minute ground run.[17] Coupled with the already considerable noise from the subsonic aspect of the propeller and the T40's dual turbine sections, the aircraft was notorious for inducing severe nausea and headaches among ground crews.[11] In one report, a Republic engineer suffered a seizure after close range exposure to the shock waves emanating from a powered-up XF-84H.[18]
noble zenith
jesus
frigid karma
imagine how much terrifying this would be for psyops
you fly over an enemy camp and half the soldiers fall to the ground convulsing from seizures
basically, every propellor causes a sonic boom
so imagine that vine 'boom' effect but thousands of times per minute
hushed saffron
That'd probably be hilarious to watch from a safe distance. With a very powerful telescope.
cinder escarp
The Tu-95 is just about as loud if not louder
It also has supersonic turboprops
But 4 of them
They made a funny maritime recon version, Tu-142
Which was notable for being so loud that subs could hear them on sonar
frigid karma
noisemaker launched
digital mason
The XF-84H was almost certainly the loudest aircraft ever built, earning the nic...
I had the pleasure (or well the opposite of pleasure) of hearing it... needless to say I almost went deaf
it basically uses task manager to make your ears stop working and start bleeding if you hear it long enough at close range
slow raft
reminds me of the Chrysler Victory Siren, I mean it was supposed to be loud but still. At full tilt the thing would form fog in front of the siren bells.
because the typical american response to "how can we make it harder/better/faster/stronger" is "drop a Hemi in it"
digital mason
reminds me of the Chrysler Victory Siren, I mean it was supposed to be loud but ...
the YF-84H was that but multiplied by 2 and then raised to Pi multiplied by 1000
slow raft
oh believe me I'm not seeking competition or thinking the Siren holds a candle, just remarking on the similarities in volume over distance
digital mason
fair enough
fierce sparrow
junior trench
mmm yes
let's show up with a Leo 1/AMX-30 style tank after production of the Abrams has started
spring briar
manic latch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBVm8HvqnJc
Ww2 oofed Italy's industry
They would come with something better if it didn't
junior trench
honestly, OF-40s features always make me thing it's part of a trio with AMX-30 and Leo 1
then I remember that, no, it's not
it's from the 70s
and post-dates Abrams
eternal veldt
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/976234964142157864/202...
Colourized version on Bagnasco and De Toro's book cover.
manic latch
@junior trench https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiesel_AWC
I wonder why this concept didn't continue
Especially by passing to something like drone models etc
junior trench
it did
manic latch
They are effective for their size, very cheap, easy to carry
junior trench
just very few people think it's worth while
manic latch
junior trench
the concept really carries on with the BMD series
which is the epitome of all the problems
being tin cans that are still relatively large targets
manic latch
being tin cans that are still relatively large targets
How bout this one
junior trench
especially when you consider that even infantry small arms can pierce the armor
absolutely fucking garbage
manic latch
manic latch
being tin cans that are still relatively large targets
Ain't Bradley got BMD concept?
Didn't they made her hull from aluminum 
A2 variant improved the armor
junior trench
Bradley was designed against 14.5mm API all around
BMD can't even keep out 5.56 AP from the sides and rear
spring briar
read the wiki article
manic latch
Taiwan Knox class
God they upgraded this baby so much that they could have bought a new ship
Started to slowly retire irrc
junior trench
Puma is armored against 30mm APDS and MBT HEAT
which... isn't actually hard to do
except for some weirdo multi-stage HEAT rounds, you can protect against MBT HEAT with armor only a bit more intensive than what stops single stage RPG
dusty kraken
the problem with these things can be solved if we just let children crew them
children = small = smaller crew space = smaller tank
cinder escarp
The OF-40 mostly exists so the Italians could have a vehicle to sell to certain african and middle eastern states the Germans weren't letting them sell to (they had been license producing and selling Leo 1s)
dapper parcel
I got some mandela effect there. Always tought that Ariete was 80s and OF40 was 60s
chilly osprey
I mean, Ariete was an 80s development... And then dragged into the 90s with deliveries wrapping up in the early '00s
spring briar
feels like french speed of pre-dreadnought construction phoe
chilly osprey
Some of the drumbeats might be familiar
The initial stages of the project weren't actually that slow, with official requirements issued by the EI in 1984 and a prototype already completed in 1986 and presented in '87.
From that point limited funding for the program became fairly sparse so development and testing of what ultimately was six pre-production models dragged on for the the rest of the decade, to the point that the first production contract wasn't issued until 1994, with the first complete tank arriving the year after. And the order was ultimately slashed from 700 (400 + 300 buy) to 500 maybe (200 + 300) to just 200, which naturally caused unit costs to skyrocket and in end the tanks were also delivered at a slow pace (200 from '95 to '02).
Fucking misery
manic latch
1960-70
Engineers: This is T-72. It's a design that should be used during a total war where fast mass production is vital. A modern t34
Soviets: Let's just build them now
spring briar
The initial stages of the project weren't actually that slow, with official requ...
doesn't really matter phoenix
same with arjun
manic latch
<:SadChamp:585554482490900531>
Dont worry, Arjun Mark 2 will be best tank in the world
chilly osprey
I mean, at least with Ariete there aren't toxic nationalists everywhere online insisting that it's actually the best tank ever XD
ivory ridge
brb
chilly osprey
oh no
ivory ridge
spring briar
I mean, at least with Ariete there aren't toxic nationalists everywhere online i...
ehhhhh
you know that isn't true
there's nationalists for everything
manic latch
Ariete doesn't have 120 mm Penetration Cum Blast (PCB) shell.
ivory ridge
Ariete doesn't have 120 mm Penetration Cum Blast (PCB) shell.
it's just
chilly osprey
I mean, there are, but few places rival what gets produced by certain countries
ivory ridge
an heat shell
manic latch
way way way more
1 billion people does that to you
spring briar
France
ivory ridge
turkiye stronk
spring briar
manic latch
How many F-16s they have now. 200-300?
Wants to order more from US. With block 70 variant upgrade
chilly osprey
Well, they certainly proved second best to Russia in tank warfare. Their turrets in Syria weren't flying nearly as high as Russia's were in Ukraine
And obviously that's the metric that counts
manic latch
Well, they certainly proved second best to Russia in tank warfare. Their turrets...
Leopard 2 A4s
ivory ridge
manic latch
Wait. When was the last time Germany did tank warfare
dapper parcel
I'll give Arjun a lot of leeway. It's a learning phase for them, even if they miss darn obvious lessons learned during its inception.
I just can't stand bharatboo who somehow hoist it high to the sky
manic latch
ivory ridge
the S-400 situation didnt let them get more upgrades for the f-16 iirc
dapper parcel
Well, India v Pakistan is always ugly like that
manic latch
the S-400 situation didnt let them get more upgrades for the f-16 iirc
Kicked from 35 program. But Congress just doesn't approve the F16 request yet
It's up to them
manic latch
just bribe them to let sweden and finland in nato
Bloomberg did reported that
Turkey may request lift of sanctions
To give approval
manic latch
can we widen the suez canal to the point that the middle east is deleted?
Global warming 
Just melt more icebergs 5Head
spring briar
melting icebergs actually cools the world
since the heat you put in the icebergs gets removed from the atmosphere
manic latch
dapper parcel
just wait several million years, the great rift is already doing the works there
spring briar
the problem is the change in entropy
dapper parcel
i mean, dead sea is right there in the middle
spring briar
can't wait for pangea ultima
junior trench
I'll give Arjun a lot of leeway. It's a learning phase for them, even if they mi...
I'd give it more leeway if it wasn't the culmination of 13 years of design with an 8 year delay until production
manic latch
Vikrant 
chilly osprey
Superpower 2024
spring briar
supapowa 2020
manic latch
Vikrant <:MonkaW:779553442308947968>
will be amazing to see F-18 using ramps tho
dapper parcel
design delay is okay, if they actually incorporate new advancement "found out" during development
But nah, the delay was just so that they can implement the OG spec without any improvement
spring briar
sadly they didn't find out the optic doesn't actually count as spaced armor
junior trench
German noises
dapper parcel
Gotta admit considering its demographics, India is doing well getting into cutting edge tech
At least their rocketry are on point
junior trench
though at least Germany put some armor behind the sight...
manic latch
spring briar
random out of context american cope slope to prove a moot point moment?
manic latch
<:TOOBASED:797584356403183617> will be amazing to see F-18 using ramps tho
Here
India plans to purchase F-18 for Vikrant carrier
F-18s already did cope slope tests before
So data is here
Which makes them more likely to win
Over Rafale M
Since well. I don't think Rafale M ever did cope slope tests
spring briar
if they're compatible with the Vikrant I'm sure they have
manic latch
The Indian Navy will start the flight trials of Boeing F/A-18E Super Hornet carrier based multi-role fighters at the shore-based test facility (SBTF) at INS Hansa in Goa from May 23.
Still called as indigenous aircraft carrier-1 (IAC-1), the warship is going to be commissioned on August 15, 2022, the 75th year of Indian independence, by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
According to information, the flight trials of the F-18 carrier capable fighter on the mockup 928 feet deck of India’s sole aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya are expected around May 21.
Welp. Feels like a Loss for Rafale
ivory ridge
ivory ridge
and that's from?
chilly osprey
That's from the leaks from the Swiss trials. Fairly well known at this point, did not reflect very well on the Gripen
ivory ridge
the gripen is fine as an f-16 equivalent
main problem is that SAAB is trying to sell it as an f-35 equivalent
fierce sparrow
wew... are we into Gripen memes again?
manic latch
main problem is that SAAB is trying to sell it as an f-35 equivalent
That's impossible by stealth no?
ivory ridge
well duh, but that's not the point
manic latch
chilly osprey
SAAB's marketing is what makes it insufferable
Relying on the price of the Gripen C/D to try and sell the Gripen E, and preying on people not understanding how VLO works to make claims about stealth being obsolete and trying to claim they have 'electronic stealth'
Other than that it's a servicable aircraft
manic latch
ivory ridge
hey this doesnt reference [the thing] directly so i think it's fine to post
kekw
chilly osprey
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947251782411759656/976425701949464636/Scr...
Su-57 also has a major advantage in regards to the fact that they can't be shot down in large numbers
Because they, uh, don't really exist in large numbers
ivory ridge
it's so stealth that we never seen more than 3
fierce sparrow
Armchair Scrub...
spring briar
how many SU-57's are there?
chilly osprey
Su-75 is outright immune to being shot down
manic latch
how many SU-57's are there?
10 ish
ivory ridge
poggies
chilly osprey
Because, it, uh, doesn't fly
ivory ridge
On 24 December 2019, the first serial Su-57 (bort number "01 blue") crashed 110–120 km away from the Dzyomgi Airport, Khabarovsk Krai, during the final stage of its factory trials due to a control system malfunction.
merry christmas
manic latch
dapper parcel
Russian don't celebrate Christmas on that day 
ivory ridge
fierce sparrow
ouchies...
spring briar
manic latch
<:CleveDerp:721896663370694788> *ouchies...*
Russian plane crash
Russia: System error
American plane crash
America: Human error
Usually goes like this
China: What error
maiden citrus
Doktor release my coping inhibitors
fierce sparrow
. . .
manic latch
system errors are also human errors
So B-2's crash. Who do you blame.
Maintenance crew for letting her stay under rain? Or the engineers for making her systems fragile to rain?
fierce sparrow
Russian plane crash
Russia: System error
American plane crash
America: Human err...
I really want to forget about Aeroflot's crashes...
manic latch
<:Wotspite:839635014572048394> I really want to forget about Aeroflot's crashes....
Boeing crashes
fierce sparrow
chilly osprey
See, this is why crash rates are usually compared to hours of activity
spring briar
aeroflot is an airline
chilly osprey
Which usually allow us to get a better picture of crash rates relative to how much the aircraft actually get used
dapper parcel
Aeroflot was unique because everything flying in Soviet Union was "aeroflot" back then, from airliners to crop dusters. So there's hardly unified standard of safety or service
But yeah, even accounting for that and ignoring the odd planes, it still astronomically high
spring briar
phoenix gonna explain the importance of population size and normalisation in regards to comparing statistics???
chilly osprey
I can't do that unless I have a statistics textbook to pound my fist on
manic latch
Aeroflot *was* unique because everything flying in Soviet Union was "aeroflot" b...
I think Antonov planes had the most problems
manic latch
See, this is why crash rates are usually compared to hours of activity
J-20 crash: 0
F-35 crash: 7
J-20 is best plane confirmed)))
dapper parcel
they should pander into modelmaking industry, slick designs
manic latch
they should pander into modelmaking industry, slick designs
They are certainly beautiful yes
spring briar
Foul Gripen
searching for the defence contract
emboldened by the saab of ambition
maiden citrus
pickle godrick
dapper parcel
Ngl ITAR-free fighter jets legit have a market if they truly can achieve that
ITAR and CAATSA-free 
manic latch
ITAR and CAATSA-free <:Glowow:611004137210904579>
US dominates the market by that. French is focusing on reducing the US equipment they use so they can sell stuff to nations with US sanctions
maiden citrus
france sus?
manic latch
france sus?
You know their weapon policy. To the highest bidder
fleet summit
Oh?
manic latch
Hmm
Is Maya class better than Burke class
They do look similar but Maya is brand new
So should have some technological improvements over Burkes?
maiden citrus
iirc the summary is they have a lot of custom stuff for their mission profile and that's why they seem newer, but are otherwise similar
dapper parcel
Different role tho
Maya, or Kongo descendants in general are more like Tico in role
manic latch
Didn't knew Maya was longer than Burkes
dapper parcel
They got extra flag officer space
manic latch
Maya is planned to get locally made railguns in future
Should be interesting
She also use Integrated Electric propulsion. Only destroyer that has that except Zumwalt
chilly osprey
Maya's mostly better than a Flight IIA (not flatly), but the fact it's still using SPY-1D(V) means it won't compare well to a Flight III
It also has to be said that for the moment the kinda of missiles it loads is much more limited than a Burke
Basically just SM-2MR and SM-3
Which is reflective of the much more specific role DDGs have in the JMSDF, and also how they handle AAW in their flotillas
dapper parcel
The lack of SM-6 is mostly logistic tho, not doctrinal
BGM-109 on the other hand should be obvious...
shrewd pecan
considering the lack of real offensive power in the Japanese aegis destroyers due to not only Japanese politics but lacking significant amounts of SM-6s and cruise missiles
Burke’s overall in my opinion shape up better due to the armament they’re able to carry over Japanese destroyers which are usually limited to just AA and anti sub missiles
tough quail
agony
spring briar
HMMMM I WONDER HOW HARD IT WOULD BE TO SPOT A PLANE THAT IS A LITERAL FLYING MIRROR
tough quail
germany should be banned from designing military equipment to punish wehrbs
frigid karma
U sure this ain’t from a German toys r us?
exotic scarab
ah yes another desgin that didnt make it off paper
spring briar
wouldn't have made it off the ground either
shrewd pecan
wehrbs pulling some design out of their ass that is only theoretically doable even with modern technology and going "SR-72 IS CLONE OF UNDER WUNDERWAFFE SILBERWHJKAIFGUIOGEL"
maiden citrus
All the panthers should have: -Spontaneous Transmission breakdown -20% all crew skills due to employing child soldiers
maiden citrus
that one comment chain gets better and better
tough quail
maiden citrus
it goes back and forth on both and that one is short but sweet
the wt tooltip would be pretty incredible
tough quail
it's a real good thing that the british didn't test literally brand new, made for the purpose panthers built in the british occupation zone for evaluation
and they had to be cannibalized to keep one running
and the last one still couldnt finish the standard british AFV trials
and iirc had it's engine catch fire after it rolled down a slope and hit a tree
you heard it here first folks
soviet propaganda-sorcerers were so powerful that their slander was enough to physically destroy German AFVs long west of the Rhine
shrewd pecan
average reddit moment
shrewd pecan
anyways
tough quail
tough quail
when wehraboo dreams about the T-34 are actually valid
maiden citrus
irl
tough quail
spring briar
https://i.imgur.com/YeeLXAi.png
ah yes
france, britain and the us don't know how to maintain tanks that were built to be easy to manufacture and maintain
yes
logic
manic latch
ah yes
france, britain and the us don't know how to maintain tanks that were bui...
German child soldiers can
tough quail
people use this as a cope for the french panther trials too
because if the french had operated them properly they would have lastedlonger
but if, again, your vehicle requires crazy esoteric techniques to operate and maintain
your tank fucking sucks
manic latch
Wehraboos butthurt T-34 beat them
tough quail
a blind monkey that's never felt steel in their lives can repair a sherman or a t-34
maiden citrus
the entire propaganda argument makes no sense anyway even from his perspective, soviets didn't tend to do much about other's stuff being bad, just themselves being really good
it's the british that hyped up the enemy's stuff
manic latch
British and their documentaries about Germans were the greatest tragedy
maiden citrus
soviet officer; yeah those german tanks are really strong
???
historical events™️
manic latch
Like I believe what made Bismarck so hyped was also British
Since it sunk Hood. Hood had to die from something so great
Like a knight would look more heroic dying to a dragon instead a bull
maiden citrus
it's not even the type of propoganda they tend to use, so calling it propoganda just doesn't work
chilly osprey
Embellishment is probably the best term
manic latch
Yeah
maiden citrus
our stuff is really good™️ is their tactic
enemy stuff very scary but we will prevail™️ is british tactic
tough quail
the soviet internal lend lease reports that i've read are pretty no nonsense
fairly good way to understand the stuff they liked
like churchills kind of suck ass but valentines are 👏 👏 sign me the fuck up
slather me in these motherfuckers
eager dove
I never got people trying to make skitzo breakdown mechanics in video games like war thunder
tough quail
we're bringing one to the reichstag
eager dove
My brother in Christ we are playing an arcade tank game
tough quail
dont say it's arcade
manic latch
like churchills kind of suck ass but valentines are 👏 👏 sign me the fuck up
Didn't BT series inspired Valentines?
Makes sense
maiden citrus
tanks are already annoying enough to play in wot or wt
tough quail
warthunder goobers will insist that it';s the height of armored warfare simulations
maiden citrus
the tank, well known for getting one shot
welcome to an fps for snails
by snails
tough quail
Didn't BT series inspired Valentines?
Makes sense
iirc they liked it because it was dead fucking simple, sturdy, could be fixed with a rubber mallet and driven by a toddler, and had just enough firepower
like a tiny mobile fort
manic latch
iirc they liked it because it was dead fucking simple, sturdy, could be fixed wi...
They also liked Sherman for being reliable and good armor. But disliked her uhhh height? Center of gravity?
tough quail
absolutely yuge height whereas they really liked low profile hulls
but other than that and a few other minor things they really liked it
as long as it had a diesel
petrol engines gave them hardcore super cancer
manic latch
maiden citrus
ATLEAST I HAVE NO HEALTH BARS
tough quail
i still think the most adorable thing is that, since the program that lead to it got kickstarted by the soviets sending them a t-34 and a kv-1 early in the war
they sent one of the pre-production pershings to the USSR literally to just get their opinion on it
shrewd pecan
ripple firing all 16 hellfires in WT at one target just because you can
tough quail
first comment was that it wasn't really a heavy tank at all
and everything else was basically
"this shit's bitchin'"
manic latch
first comment was that it wasn't really a heavy tank at all
IS-2 gang
tough quail
fwiw it literally isn't a heavy tank
iirc it was only classified as one (and temporarily at that) because the grunts were screaming up and down that they needed a heavy tank
because tiger panic
tough quail
so they just slapped the heavy tag on to get them to shut the fuck up
maiden citrus
'it's heavy'
'no it's not'
'oh, pardon me, do you weigh a few dozen tons? stfu'
tough quail
lmfao
manic latch
spring briar
where is the somua
maiden citrus
because tiger panic
soldiers in europe dunking on tigers;
vs
soldiers being sent overseas afraid of tigers
tough quail
this was in europe though
like, they were scared shitless of tigers despite dunking on them
it's really bizarre
manic latch
The Soviet hated that the M3 used gasoline (made it a fire trap, plus diesel was much more plentiful there) and the pitifully weak 37mm main gun. The Stuart was the main US tank at the time (it only began production in March 1941, the Lee later in the year), though, so the Americans sent 1,665 Stuarts and about the same number of Lees while they worked up other designs
tough quail
that and they also thought everything under the sun was a tiger in the field
strong plank
Tiger panic yeah
maiden citrus
call a td
but not for me
manic latch
Their conclusions about the M3 Lee:
Obsolete hull, too tall with insufficiently sloped armor;
Periscope that was adequate but basic, i.e., nothing special;
Limited traverse of the 75mm gun;
Lack of sights for machine guns;
Reliable engine, but with a design that led to an undesirable high profile;
Reliable transmission;
Good radiator design;
Good rubber-metallic track;
Good suspension;
Poor tracks for mud;
Poor access for repairs
spring briar
it was a stopgap
tough quail
PLEASE HELP WE NEED A HEAVY TANK HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO SURVIVE AGAINST THIS MENACE
shrewd pecan
I mean
just because there able to kill it
doesn't eliminate the fact they likely want something for lack of a better word "good as it"
tough quail
they already did though
a 76mm sherman is comparable or better in nearly every aspect
even effective protection
maiden citrus
iirc sherman hull at a slight angle is immune to tiger at 1km
manic latch
it was a stopgap
The M4A4 also got the big thumbs down from the Soviets. When a Soviet delegation visited Chrysler in late 1942 - a time of great crisis for the USSR -hey reviewed the M4A4 and found it wanting. While clearly superior to the M3, which required higher octane gas and was not water-cooled, the Soviets considered the M4A4 worse than the M4A2 tank for the following reasons:
Large and unwieldy engine;
No improvement over the M4A2 in terms of armament and other factors;
No improvement in suspension;
Only a slightly better turret traverse mechanism.
So yeah Soviets prefer A2 over A4
tough quail
yeah the M4A4 engine is uh
tough quail
it sure is something
shrewd pecan
You're facing these big ass scary looking tanks
yes you can kill them
but just because you can kill them doesn't eliminate the fact you would probably also want a big ass scary looking tank (I get the German tanks are paper tigers)
tough quail
reading that physically hurt me
just like the funny meme churchill screaming video attributes the M4A4s engine to the firefly for some reason
BEHOLD, THE HEIGHT OF AMERICAN TECHNOLOGICAL SUPERIORITY
WELDING A BUNCH OF SHITTY CAR ENGINES TOGETHER
tough quail
chrysler could've beat ferrari and ford at le mans if they just shoved the multibank into a lola
maiden citrus
spring briar
Nuclear buttplug
ivory ridge
manic latch
chrysler could've beat ferrari and ford at le mans if they just shoved the multi...
Wish War Thunder add this feature for BTs
spring briar
Christie suspension gives me physical pain
ivory ridge
Wish War Thunder add this feature for BTs
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/823955653869174794/972164911998332938/s3ts0q.mp4
how about the opposite
tough quail
tfw barbarossa cucked us out of the torsion bar t-34 with the cool side slopes
tough quail
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/823955653869174794/972164911998332938/s3t...
ah yes, future science
manic latch
Anti-mine tracks
spring briar
I also like the T-34 we got
tough quail
yeah
tough quail
we would've missed like
the weirdo handful of 57mm T-34s for example
and thats sad
manic latch
Tfw Soyuz is too large to pull T34 on her 
tough quail
just slap a bunch of t-34 turrets on marat after she's converted into a floating battery
manic latch
Imagine a T-34 made to late war USN manufacturing standards
Soviets got the designs, US got the quality
They rarely ever combined
spring briar
Sweden got the steel
Austria got the officers
Spain got the warcriminals
France got the technology
And Germany got the L
tough quail
as far as im aware 1944+ once the pressure was taken off the production quality jumped up a lot
frigid karma
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407952230709461024/976454014948503603/dgo...
Dancing with the devil here undie
I respect it tho
tough quail
at some point the USSR at least temporarily leapfrogged the US in metallurgy but i cant really pinpoint the years
but it was by 1951
manic latch
I respect it tho
Of course you do.
frigid karma
Counterpoint:
Tiger looks cool
ivory ridge
Dancing with the devil here undie
cope
maiden citrus
not cooler than the sherman though
manic latch
Counterpoint:
Tiger looks cool
Ffs
tough quail
though admittedly that's also in part because of casting just being kind of stinky
tough quail
some of it does
spring briar
Also depends on what aspect of metallurgy
frigid karma
There’s something to be said for the simplicity of b l o c k on the tiger
maiden citrus
as far as im aware 1944+ once the pressure was taken off the production quality ...
iirc by then, early war shermans and 34s had about the same failure time
tough quail
mg42s despite being everything wrong with LMG design
look like giant ppsh's
so i have to like them a little bit
spring briar
Typical retreat
manic latch
iirc by then, early war shermans and 34s had about the same failure time
Sherman engines are 6 months more reliable irrc
But in a nutshell. Soviets saw T34 and Sherman as equals mostly
Sherman was more comfy for sure
tough quail
they're head and shoulders above everything else in the world so let's leave it at that
the real circlejerk is t-44s vs pershings
manic latch
~~the real circlejerk is t-44s vs pershings~~
See I was wondering.
What happened to 4
T-34>44>54>64
Then uhh why 72
tough quail
that's kind of a myth
a lot of it was honestly just down to heavily competing factories
T-72s were a bit more expensive on introduction, not cheaper
though, yes, it's ultimately more reliable
spring briar
Amx-30 my beloved
tough quail
delicate beacon
AMX-30 cute 
manic latch
though, yes, it's ultimately more reliable
So I guess T-80 popped from 64 X 72?
Man 3 tanks is way too confusing really
72, 80, 90
tough quail
yeah
manic latch
Should have been single unit like others
tough quail
that's why the T-90 became a thing to clamp down on all of that nonsense
spring briar
shrewd pecan
I mean
tough quail
that said all three are from separate factories
tough quail
yes, they settled on the T-72 as a base going forward
you're not really saying any big revelation here
shrewd pecan
fair
tough quail
the T-64 was born in the horrifying bowels of Kharkov
manic latch
Tfw India has more T-90 than Russia
tough quail
the T-72 rolled out of Uralvagonzavod
aaaaand the T-80 rolled out of Kirov, and later Omsk
manic latch
Tfw India has more T-90 than Russia
2078 T-90S
tough quail
with iirc kharkov picking up the T-84 development after the split
maiden citrus
just call T-90 what it is
tough quail
i like modern ukraine's weird dome tanks
shrewd pecan
shame the production quality for the T-84 is kinda ass
tough quail
they looked at the T-80U's turret flaps and went
hmmm
but what if literally the entire tank was a mudguard
manic latch
shame the production quality for the T-84 is kinda ass
Wiki says they only have 2
tough quail
ukrainian production quality for like
manic latch
But weirdly enough. Thailand has 49 T-84
tough quail
everything is really, really bad
shrewd pecan
BTR-3 and BTR-4 from what I've seen have been fine
same with their modernizations of older vehicles
its more for new produced tanks
tough quail
like, old soviet stockpile mortar shells were working much more reliably than brand new ones built in ukraine
maiden citrus
are you sure
tough quail
and a lot of their export stuff had to get armor steel built in finland to be used instead of domestic steel
manic latch
Turkey planned to purchase T-84 then said nah we will build Altay
ivory ridge
Wiki says they only have 2
2 oplot
spring briar
I’m going to put post-refit Lorraine here to give everyone happiness
tough quail
swell
tough quail
we have to find big lorraine
manic latch
Why US doesn't build Diesel variant for Abrams for export
maiden citrus
why would
frigid karma
we have to find big lorraine
Smaller Lorraine
rapid junco
I’m going to put post-refit Lorraine here to give everyone happiness
In the line of smoll pics
tough quail
Smaller Lorraine
yes!!!
maiden citrus
but why would we want to export it
manic latch
Uhhh
tough quail
..the uh
manic latch
Poland?
shrewd pecan
nah
tough quail
the same reason you're already exporting it?
ivory ridge
multiple times
shrewd pecan
gas turbines got plenty of buyers
tough quail
and have been for years..?
shrewd pecan
main thing is just being under cut by cheap export leopads
maiden citrus
and have been for years..?
sure but why rebuild it to export
tough quail
the abrams is not being bought for its turbine
its being bought for its everything else
there's a reason literally nobody on earth is designing new gas turbine AFVs
ivory ridge
sure but why rebuild it to export
you already do, most of the exports variant have different armor
tough quail
and even internal US preliminary designs aren't using them
ivory ridge
i think only poland got actual american abrams
spring briar
tough quail
russia stopped producing T-80s and Ukraine ripped them out of the design too, they're just not worth the dosh
manic latch
and even internal US preliminary designs aren't using them
Abrams had few proposals for diesel replacement. General Electric proposed Merkava MKIV engine as replacement
shrewd pecan
I mean
tough quail
the only acceptable replacement is the hyperbar
shrewd pecan
that's because the T series platform isn't really able to counteract the trade offs of the gas turbine
due to limited space for fuel
manic latch
the only acceptable replacement is the hyperbar
What about MT 883 engine
maiden citrus
yeah the abrams engine is microscopic
shrewd pecan
Abrams is able to make up for it since its able to carry a good deal more fuel than other tank designs
manic latch
Who else use Gas turbines except Abrams and T-80s?
maiden citrus
very very cool locomotives
shrewd pecan
not really sure who else really explored it for tank use besides the soviets and the US
wouldn't be surprised if there's a gas turbine leopard 2 or something out there
manic latch
not really sure who else really explored it for tank use besides the soviets and...
Stridsvagn 103
shrewd pecan
that used both a diesel and a gas turbine
and I don't really count that since the STRV-103 is just weird
tough quail
Abrams is able to make up for it since its able to carry a good deal more fuel t...
while also consuming more fuel
so it kinda doesn't really matter
tough quail
it's not really a difference
maiden citrus
while being able to use different fuels
shrewd pecan
Abrams can run diesel
maiden citrus
the majority of good quality fuel is going to be used by the air force in an engagement
dapper parcel
Plane paradox
Heavier plane= need better engine= need more fuel= heavier
That isn't a paradox, it's just variation of Tsiolkovsky equation.
manic latch
Abrams can run diesel
Think like this
Challenger 2. A Japanese with 1 liter British tea on his hand
Abrams: A German with 2 liter Beer on his hand
Which one would drink faster
tough quail
dammit where are the dimensions for the hyperbar
manic latch
Exactly
shrewd pecan
at the same time actual impact on range is limited
maiden citrus
0.6 vs 0.9mpg
maiden citrus
but gotta have a talking point
manic latch
than other MBTs
Yes. Thus it consumes more fuel for same range
spring briar
That isn't a paradox, it's just variation of Tsiolkovsky equation.
Rocket equation moment
shrewd pecan
extra range honestly doesn't matter when that 400 KM mark is the golden mark for setting resupply points since almost every other vehicle has that fuel range
tough quail
this is strangely defensive
if the entire rest of the world isn't doing what you're doing and your own future designs arent using it
yeah
anyway vae is yelling at me to stop typing in this call
later
delicate beacon
Drawing the 35.000t version, need to think of a lighter secondary distribution (get rid of the tall barbettes?) that doesn't make a mess for fire control. Calibres atm are 48, 24 and 12cm 
dapper parcel
by the way, gas turbine problem wasn't really about bsfc, it can be very efficient
it's about how it consume about the same fuel regardless if it's idling or at full tilt
spring briar
Get rid of the 24 and put more 12
frank solar
delicate beacon
But I need 24s to help with the fire control of the 48s 
spring briar
by the way, gas turbine problem wasn't really about bsfc, it can be very efficie...
The chieftain always emphasises this
frank solar
me when horse's keyboard
delicate beacon
dapper parcel
Look at these fuel flow...
shrewd pecan
what was it again called on the abrams
tough quail
waiting for korv to tell me the hyperbar dimensions dammit
shrewd pecan
the external generator
dapper parcel
might as well go full tilt all the way
shrewd pecan
APU or something
spring briar
Ya
delicate beacon
Help I accidentally made the 48cms 360 rotatable
delicate beacon
I know 
maiden citrus
360 turrets are dope though
wonder if rule the waves 3 will have them
(coming out later this year)
spring briar
Dope but rather impossible for large caliber guns
maiden citrus
for more than a few turns yeah, but I'd still use em
ivory ridge
kek
shrewd pecan
anyways regarding the abrams gas turbine, I get why there moving away from it in future tanks along with why no one else really picked it up
delicate beacon
Eendracht had 360 degree turrets
shrewd pecan
I just don't really get why people stress over its draw back all that much due to how easily mitigated it can be
maiden citrus
if it offers tactical advantages they should keep it
shrewd pecan
I mean there's a reason why they went with it over the competing diesel engine
maiden citrus
(it does)
maiden citrus
I just don't really get why people stress over its draw back all that much due t...
the a-10 has a big ferry range compared to the f-35 while having a smaller fuel tank, better plane and skill diffed
dapper parcel
having much lower wing loading and higher bypass engine helps a lot of that tho
also Abrams engine selection was much more political than technical
or at least more political than many might thought
that was also back when NATO multifuel engine was a requirement, before everyone drops it
Leyland didn't get the memo tho
maiden citrus
it turns you into Champaign
maiden citrus
gorgeous bote
spring briar
Was also the design basis of the Brandenburg class of pre dreadnoughts
maiden citrus
boats on sides is always a nice look
spring briar
tough quail
saved
rapid junco
We used that same name for two of our "Fleet Battleships" (Encouraçados de Esquadra) 
spring briar
steady gate
dat war thunder?
digital mason
dat war thunder?
yes
exotic scarab
https://i.imgur.com/rt3vF6q.png
bit late
but I would genuinely love a game where stuff like the transmission randomly breaking, cannons and firearm misfires or jamming and other technically issues would happen
thats a issue even with the more realism focused shooters and rts like men of war and squad
frigid karma
but I would genuinely love a game where stuff like the transmission randomly bre...
play bf2042
malfunctions happen all the time
exotic scarab
actually only game I can name of the top of my hand to even have weapon jamming be a genuine concern is stalker
frigid karma
actually only game I can name of the top of my hand to even have weapon jamming ...
far cry
tough quail
yeah i was gonna say the earlier ones had some heavy jamming iirc
...is uh
is far cry heavy in it's politics?
exotic scarab
well the new one
manic latch
is far cry heavy in it's politics?
More like nutshell
Usually always extreme type of ideologies
Dictators, zealots etc
exotic scarab
but yeah
i've never seen tank transmission be a issue in games
unless its in a convenient point for the plot of a singleplayer game
humble mulch
Metro series has gun jamming
Cleaning firearms is tied with it for immersion and horror
exotic scarab
only exdous really had it
exotic scarab
the only soviet gun was the kalash (basically a mix of various AKs)
the rest were makeshift
and honnestly beyond the mutant sections you arent really supposed to use guns in metro
frigid karma
well the new one
not really
the new one is just a commie revolution on not!cuba
"here is big bad dictator backed by US oligarch, kill him"
exotic scarab
guess I was told wrong
like I said im not downloading Uplay or paying modern AAA prices for a game that might be mid
tender monolith
the qq over games having politics in them will never be not funny
cinder escarp
play bf2042
why would you sentence anyone to that horrible fate?
frigid karma
why would you sentence anyone to that horrible fate?
they wanted a game where things randomly go wrong at horrible times
does bf2042 not perfectly fit that description
somber knoll
does bf2042 not perfectly fit that description
COD:IW and COD:G?
somber knoll
I just want a new MoH game. Warfighter was an awful experiment
exotic scarab
I just wanted stalker 2 for upcoming FPS
lets just say unexpected circumstances happened to the kiev based company
desert agate
Kiev
Russian bot detected
desert agate
Because that's the Ukrainian spelling
And the internationally correct way of spelling it
Ukraine isn't a Russian colony state anymore so we use the Ukrainian spelling and pronunciation not the Russian one
desert agate
No one really gave much of a shit about it before current event
exotic scarab
yeah lol
frigid karma
all of the FPSs I want are years away
bf1 and bfv are still quite popular and good games
BFV gets an incredibly bad rap because w*men
but like, it's honestly still a fucking amazing game
highly recommend it
eager dove
I liked BF1, it just felt really lacking in actual things to unlock and do
it lost my interest before the DLC's came out
I played the BFV beta and made the choice to stay far away from that mess
cold pumice
If bfv led with the trailer they used for the Pacific the game would have done much better
eager dove
I didn't even care too much about all of the devs politics and all of that foolishness with the setting
the game was just a barebones recycled mess for the longest time from what I've been told
I'm far beyond tired of paying full price for games at launch with no content
fuck games as a live service models
I was excited for Halo Infinite multiplayer until I saw that all of the customization is locked behind the battlepass
where you only get progression for doing specific ingame challenges instead of PLAYING THE GAME
i hate triple a developers i hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developersi hate triple a developers
shrewd pecan
bf1 and bfv are still quite popular and good games
eh BFV is fine but
Main thing is I want something semi modern that doesn’t suck
frigid karma
the game was just a barebones recycled mess for the longest time from what I've ...
it feels substantially different from bf1
frigid karma
Main thing is I want something semi modern that doesn’t suck
have you heard of world war iii?
shrewd pecan
yea
frigid karma
arma reforger also looks spicy
shrewd pecan
I’ll have to revisit it
Arma reforger I’m holding off on
tho wwiii I’ll revisit
Guessing that game has ended up being a diamond in the rough
shrewd pecan
I have a innate desire to play some type of non shitty game I can run a MCX in
exotic scarab
MCX?
strong plank
based
shrewd pecan
shrewd pecan
while tarkov is a option for that
exotic scarab
i've heard you need a ssd for that game
shrewd pecan
I don’t feel like grinding that again to get to the point of being able to afford to run MCXs again
exotic scarab
that too
shrewd pecan
idk I have a high end rig nothings out of my realm to run
exotic scarab
knowing it if you want to learn the controls arma proabbly has it (or a mod for it)
shrewd pecan
I’ll get to history in a tad
exotic scarab
beyond that try squad
humble mulch
exotic scarab
i've had good experence with post scriptum and BTW which are both based on it
one is in ww2 and the other is ww1
eager dove
it feels substantially different from bf1
the beta didn't to me
shrewd pecan
what obscure thing to make a completely unrelated to the conversation to make a comment on
exotic scarab
essex
shrewd pecan
nah since it’s been awhile since I checked up on her in particular
frigid karma
the beta didn't to me
beta was pretty bad
eager dove
my personal favorite would be a proper BF3/BF4 style DICE game set in Korea or alternate history Allies vs Soviets 1945 onwards
frigid karma
but the pacific update and various new weapons are super cool
shrewd pecan
Probably about the time I check for the M1 thumpers location again
frigid karma
you haven't lived until you've stormed mount suribachi with a weeb katana slaughtering dozens of men
shrewd pecan
assuming satellite imagery has been updated again since she’s moved a few times
eager dove
yeah no thanks
especially seeing how the pacific update was what like
released over a year after the game came out originally lol?
thankfully I didn't spend my money on that
I just want a traditional battlefield game ffs
shrewd pecan
wonder how dead BF3 is on PC
eager dove
no stupid ass bootleg hero characters, no removal of class systems, no battle royale, no wack ass customization, no stupid tacked on gamemodes, actual content at launch
good luck getting that these days
shrewd pecan
if they wanted to do heroes they could just of done fucking battle front 2s system
where there’s both heroes and classes
eager dove
even then I wouldn't have done that at all
battlefield games shouldn't have heroes
star wars it makes sense because they have a huge roster of famous and unique characters
shrewd pecan
honestly battlefronts system would work well in battlefield since it doesn’t need to be for just heroes
It includes specialist and vehicles as well
could easily have idk someone with a javelin for example be a specialist you can bring in for points
eager dove
I don't see the point in specialists when BF has specific classes that can just use those weapons and equipment
shrewd pecan
Honestly specialists could work if implanted right
eager dove
2042's specialists should have just been class specific equipment
it's change for changes sake
shrewd pecan
2042s heroes were just stupidly done
I played the game for free and felt like I needed a refund for it man
idk how it got worse from beta playability wise
eager dove
I might try BFV now that I think it's on gamepass?
shrewd pecan
If it’s on sale it worth it
junior trench
Why'd they do away with specialists being a pickup anyway
eager dove
because we have to be like OVERWATCH XDDDDD
WOWIE QUIRKY CHARACTER
LOOK AT THEIR FUNNY QUIPS AND LAUGH
my brother in christ this is not bad company
humble mulch
humble mulch
Anyways made some of Akagis planes today
1/200 little shits
And yeah they are actually the incorrect color as zeros aren't really white
shrewd pecan
same place still
40.20512261468715, -120.13609598312082
makes me wonder if she's gonna end up at the armor collection or not
exotic scarab
anyway back to history
I found the name of the chad british ship that stole supplies from japan
HMS Phaeton
delicate beacon
40.20512261468715, -120.13609598312082
spring briar
is jaba lurking?
spiral cedar
No
spring briar
spring briar
@chilly osprey which of the two european axis navies would you call the most effective overall?
Italy's or Germany's?
spring briar
what?
chilly osprey
<@301343127229300738> which of the two european axis navies would you call the m...
It is somewhat difficult to compare this, because fundamentally they were fighting two very different wars. The KM was acting as a primarily offensive force, the RM was much more of a defense force. Thus on the one hand the German submarine campaign was able to sink an impressively large amount of tonnage, and the Italians did not, and yet they also materially accomplished little - it's estimated that about 1% traffic to the UK was actually lost during the war.
The RM put up nowhere near as high numbers of tonnage sunk, but at the same time, it was primarily interested in protecting its own maritime traffic to its outlying islands, to the Balkans, and to North Africa, which it did with considerable success up until allied material superiority in the region became overwhelming.
The RM itself was also much more hobbled by its lack of naval aviation than the KM, as it was much less important to the KM's main fight (the U-boat campaign), and much moreso to the RM for the purposes of air cover and reconnaissance for the surface fleet.
alpine onyx
Could do a blind ships sunk/ships available comparison, but probably not gonna be that fruitful
chilly osprey
That's exactly why I framed the discussion as I did above
delicate beacon
The teathers are vastly different too
chilly osprey
That would without a doubt paint the KM in a very good light vs the RM, but, effectively ignores the difference in the kinds of wars they were fighting
delicate beacon
One had access to the Atlantic, one not much more than the Adriatic
spring briar
I feel like the RM had a large influence on keeping the african front alive for as long as it did, especially since they also had to fuel german planes and subs
iirc
chilly osprey
It was the primary force responsible for keeping the supply lines to North Africa open
delicate beacon
Didn't Germany steal all dem fuels
spring briar
well, barbarossa needed romanian oil
chilly osprey
German aircraft did have a major influence on it because the Luftwaffe was much more effective at supressing Malta than the Regia Aeronautica
alpine onyx
KM tried to help them with the supply lines, but when the biggest asset is a captured destroyer that's a difficult task
chilly osprey
But fundamentally almost the entire escort task fell to the RM, and the vital periods when supply lines were effectively cut were broken when the RM committed battleships to the escort forces.
spring briar
but in terms of actual war impact
since I don't think the KM was actively keeping a front open besides maybe norway?
chilly osprey
Honestly I'm not familiar with how supply arrangements for Norway went
spring briar
I think it went something like
and they took norway in the well-prepared land phase of the battle
chilly osprey
Worth noting that there were definitely areas the KM clearly beat the RM on - namely, conventional submarine designs and operations. Hard to make the comparison beyond that point, though. The KM simply did not operate at the scale or pace of the RM, in terms of having to manage the deployment and operation of an entire fleet at sea, or constant convoy operation in contested waters. They also never really got too far into the path of special forces operations.
somber knoll
Worth noting that there were definitely areas the KM clearly beat the RM on - na...
speaking of subs, why did the hull design evolution from early ww1 subs to ww2 subs kinda feel like "sidestepped" (for a lack of a better term)? iirc ww1 era navies already went with the familiar sub hull form we know today albeit cruder, but interwar and WW2 designs went for the surface ship-like bow design (which was inefficient when submerged, but better in upper depths).
I figure it's an evolution in submarine combat but it's not telling the whole part of the changes it brought.
chilly osprey
Probably a product of refining bow shapes versus WWI.
It should be noted that WWI and WWII-era submarines operated much more like submersible torpedo boats than they do modern submarines. Underwater endurance and situational awareness was extremely limited, such that they operated underwater mainly when they wanted to evade detection/attack when enemy ships were around, or just during the daytime to avoid being spotted by aircraft.
Otherwise most of their time they'd be on the surface, particularly when it came to attacking enemy ships with torpedoes or guns. Or other submarines, for that matter.
dapper parcel
Submarines spend like 90% of the time transiting on surface, it's just logical to optimize for surface hydrodynamics
chilly osprey
Performance at depth would have been less important than how effectively they could maneuver when surfaced or at shallow depth, and seakeeping when surfaced would remain quite important
dapper parcel
There's also consideration for allowing deck works which necessarily require flatter upper hull on the small hull beam of the time
somber knoll
Makes sense. Plus sonar tech wasn't as sophisticated as it is today, so those subs just need to be submerged in order to avoid detection from either surface ships or aircraft (recon or asw otherwise)
somber knoll
And that's ignoring the times people tried to stick gun turrets on submarines
I mean, there's Surcouf with her cruiser guns, so
dapper parcel
Surcouf is tame compared to WW1 monstrosities
dapper parcel
Steam powered submarine, because why not?
somber knoll
Thank Diesel for quieter sub runs tbf 
dapper parcel
all thing considered steam turbine is much quieter than diesel
heck, reciprocating steam engine is quieter than diesel
chilly osprey
And this is why batteries and electric motors are a thing XD
dapper parcel
Any submarine intended for surface action is straight up idiocy
Who thought it's good idea for a pressure vessel to be subjected to enemy fire?
It only need a single dent to fuck up the hull for the entire patrol
somber knoll
X1 being designed to get into stand up fights with escorts is...
that's a 6head move ngl.
manic latch
So navweapons say Soviet 37mm 70-k performed similar to 40mm bofors during trials in 1940
But 37mm was using ammunition inspired from that US's Colt-Browning 37mm. While 40mm Bofors had better ammo choices
So would Soviet 37mm 70k become more famous if it used similar ammunition with 40mm bofors?
chilly osprey
Probably not, as the original Bofors design wasn't exactly fantastic - it had promise but was extensively re-designed to become what it was when it started seeing widespread service in 1943 and beyond.
And, of course, there is the ever present issue of the VMF simply not being very well known during the war and the general lack of information from the Soviet side getting into the west until the 90s limiting any kind of reputation similar to something like the Bofors.
junior trench
especially in a naval context
chilly osprey
Plus, you know, the generally limited scale of the VMF
manic latch
especially in a naval context
Yeah 1941-45 production was only 1,641
There was armored turret variant with double barrel but only one was build then war broke out
junior trench
an armored enclosed mount for AA is as good as worthless without direction and RPC
at least an open undirected mount can have someone pointing at targets with a stick for you
manic latch
an armored enclosed mount for AA is as good as worthless without direction and R...
It does look cute tho
Gangut used the only quad prototype
They were designed for Soyuz and Kronshtadt class
Without armor
delicate beacon
Someday I will find the Dutch weapon design archives 
chilly osprey
Looks like a 120/45 without a gun shield
manic latch
Looks like a 120/45 without a gun shield
Wait a second
Did Italy lost destroyers in Benghazi?
What's the chance that this gun came from those destroyers