Just do a quick pass
#history
autumn sorrel
To take time to aim
autumn sorrel
They have the speed
Sometime, too much speed mean you have less time on target
supple sandal
The have radar, they can choose the engagement
They can retreat if the situation isn't favourable
mental tapir
There was an incident of an F-80 stalling and crashing trying to take down a biplane during the Korean War
autumn sorrel
The have radar, they can choose the engagement
They will wasting irreplaceable AA missile on biplane
mental tapir
The have radar, they can choose the engagement
Idk if J-15 has radar guided gunsights though
autumn sorrel
Idk if J-15 has radar guided gunsights though
Doesn’t matter, it has only 150 rounds in a gun that notorious for burning ammo
supple sandal
Was that a gsh-30
Idk what the J-15 look like
autumn sorrel
Yes, gsh
supple sandal
I take a blind guess and assume it have soviet designed gun
autumn sorrel
I mean, it is adequate
Why bother spending millions on designing entire new gun when you can just copy the good enough one
supple sandal
The carrier also need to run ASW sortie around the clock
Or just blast sonar 24/7
But since it is 1937
I don't think they need to worry much
autumn sorrel
I don’t think Shandong have sonar
supple sandal
So the ASW heli then
autumn sorrel
Only have 2
narrow rover
Also if Shandong gets captured and the Japanese interrogate the officers
How many on board do you think would know the finer details of WW2?
Like "yea uhh y'all better not fight the Americans because they're going to throw two suns at you in 1945"
autumn sorrel
Also if Shandong gets captured and the Japanese interrogate the officers
How man...
You would be surprised, they dedicated multiple chapter in Chinese history class for ww2
supple sandal
Assuming they know about ww2
This isn't a HOI4 multiplayer match
narrow rover
My crack alt history: somewhere between 1895 and 1905, Sasebo arsenal gets blown up with a meteor. How does this affect the decision to go to war with Russia
zealous vine
Does anyone have info on a 1937 US Destroyer design labelled "Design VI"
zealous vine
It seems to have called for a 5x2 gun arrangement (somehow), presumably in a Fletcher style arrangement, and 2 quad torps
It was larger than contemporary designs at 130~m waterline length and a 14m beam, an in-between of a conventional DD and a flotilla leader type CL
grave ravine
Does anyone have info on a 1937 US Destroyer design labelled "Design VI"
From Friedman's US Cruisers
He doesn't reproduce the drawing of scheme 6, but he does have the related 5 and 6A
It was part of a spread of sketch designs for small cruisers prepared in 1937 and 1938 ranging from 3000t to 8000t, armed with 5" guns, 6" guns, of a mix of the two
The 3000t designs (V, Va, VI, VIa) only had splinter protection, while the larger designs were armored to reject destroyer gunfire
The 6000t design would eventually become Atlanta, but while the General Board and C&R continued to tinker with 3-4000t designs through 1940, armed with 5"/38s, 5"/54s, or 6"/47s, none would go anywhere
zealous vine
From Friedman's US Cruisers
Omg tysm
I thought they'd be conventional DD designs, rather than the CL-esque we got with boats, cranes, aviation, redundant director or wing torps
zealous vine
If I may, there was also a series of DL designs around 1945 post-Gearing; 1 Fast, 1 Intermediate and 1 Heavy design. I've scoured the internet, but I've come back empty handed
grave ravine
I thought they'd be conventional DD designs, rather than the CL-esque we got wit...
The 1937 design doesn't have planes, those only came in the 1939 plans
The hull design itself also was a scaled up DD hull, but many of the survivability requirements and ofc the fitting of things like boats and cranes and such all comes from the fact that it was a cruiser at the end of the day
grave ravine
If I may, there was also a series of DL designs around 1945 post-Gearing; 1 Fast...
This?
From Friedman's US Destroyers, p239
subtle prawn
zealous vine
What's the purpose of a workshop on-board and does it have any relation with the damage control unit?
autumn sorrel
What's the purpose of a workshop on-board and does it have any relation with the...
Well, it provide maintenance and replacement parts for damage control tools. Plus depend on the size of the workshop and the equipment it have, it can range for emergency repair like plugging hole and pump out water to fabricating replacement for damaged systems.
subtle prawn
zealous vine
Well, it provide maintenance and replacement parts for damage control tools. Plu...
How did navies vary really? I read the Germans had a large proportion of tonnage dedicated to them. The US as well.
desert agate
What's the purpose of a workshop on-board and does it have any relation with the...
All ships have workshops of varying sizes. They serve a number of roles, primarily as shipboard maintenance when on long deployments. From repairing propulsions systems to fixing weapons, these workshops are typically well stocked, at least on ships which are expected to make long deployments far from home waters.
They certainly contribute to damage control, but if there's active fires and flooding, you will be hard pressed to find personnel fabricating parts instead of dealing with the direct problem
This is the workshop aboard HMS Belfast. She’s equipped with all the machining tools she might need
terse mesa
zealous vine
All ships have workshops of varying sizes. They serve a number of roles, primari...
Ty!! 
subtle prawn
supple sandal
Only the brits get away with naming ships like that
autumn sorrel
How does European Navy react to Gatling Gun? Do they order it for usage upon ship and which type of ship does they put them on?
subtle prawn
supple sandal
wdym they just get it up and running?
desert agate
It's an old naturally aspirated diesel motor
They're very simple in design
There's not a huge number of moving parts, the parts that do move are generally pretty easy to get moving again
Borderline unbreakable motors generally
supple sandal
wonder why the soviet didnt stuck the thing to concrete
desert agate
It's being put up as a display, why would they bother?
It's going to sit around for a few decades at least, I doubt they expected anyone to get it running again
And if anyone could, it's not as if it could do much damage
supple sandal
in the off chance that someone tried to steal it idk
desert agate
I doubt that would have been much of an issue under communist rule
supple sandal
yea
desert agate
Plus who knows when it might come in handy again
supple sandal
sound like something might come up in a game like red alert
"objective, capture the monument to gain reinforcement"
desert agate
You'll find that the demilitarisation process of a tank for memorial duties is generally just limited to the armament anyway
Engines are drained of fluid but otherwise left intact
narrow rover
Old diesel engines are surprisingly durable tbh
There are videos of several decades old tractors just getting back up and running after a short cleanup
desert agate
Naturally aspirated motors are generally quite reliable
Power output is pretty pathetic but otherwise they just run forever
eternal veldt
There is an IS-3 that was sitting on some podium that some people manage to get running in [current event] some 10 years ago
desert agate
The most common failure parts on modern diesels are related the the turbochargers or the sensors
I wouldn't mind buying a naturally aspirated car of my own if it weren't for the fact that power output on them is godawful
Acceleration is non existent
Torque is pretty good on them though
Albeit compared to modern motors it's pretty poor
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
narrow rover
Today I learned:
After a bombing raid on Japan in 1945, some civilians were trying to scavenge stuff out of the bombed out buildings. One found either an unexploded bomb or bomb fragments and later remarked: "even the American bombs were made of high quality steel, that's when I realized Japan could not win the war"
zealous vine
Today I learned:
After a bombing raid on Japan in 1945, some civilians were tryi...
Sheesh
I lament the loss of docs during the firebombings
Was there an estimate as to how far, or how deep (latest tech) the docs lost were
subtle prawn
junior trench
Was there an estimate as to how far, or how deep (latest tech) the docs lost wer...
A rather insignificant amount compared to the destruction enacted by the Japanese themselves
And no, it wasn't superweapons
zealous vine
I see
narrow rover
Frankly the Japanese themselves burned more documents
Really someone should have pocketed some but I guess no one was that brave
Especially Yamato blueprints and the heavy tank projects the Kwantung Army did... notably the O-I
cinder escarp
They burned some really inane stuff
"why does it even matter if this gets found out, there's no national secrets or technical wizardry in the no.9 diesel engine piston group drawing"
narrow rover
Probably running low on time so they probably got all the boxes and disposed them all without really thinking what's inside them
cinder escarp
The Yamato blueprints also count, if nominally a state secret, all of them are on the bottom of the sea and much tooling has been lost. Who cares if the US learns the detailed plans, there's no fighting them in the next decade and even if the US occupation was to disappear instantly it'd take that long to build any new ships to fight them.
narrow rover
Germay lost something like a third of its entire historical book collection in WW2
That was probably the most significant loss of historical artifacts in European history and no one bothers to talk about it sadly
A large portion of that they disposed themselves because "not German enough" or something
The rest got bombed, looted, or just went missing
spring briar
Sow the wind reap the whirlwind smth smth
cinder escarp
Also we had a ton of artifacts sitting around that we deicded to just... scrap when the Jorean war came
narrow rover
I mean the British got rid of one of the only surviving ships of the line
junior trench
The Yamato blueprints also count, if nominally a state secret, all of them are o...
Anecdotally the issue was apparently being caught having committed treaty violations in a premeditated manner.
You know
Because that was the issue
And not the gestures vaguely in direction of piles of decapitated civilians and POWs all that
junior trench
A large portion of that they disposed themselves because "not German enough" or ...
Incidentally one of the authors whose works they burned was a Jewish author of the 1800s who wrote
Where they burn books, they will, in the end, burn human beings too
autumn sorrel
And no, it wasn't superweapons
Wait until they rediscover a super Yamato plan with 1-2 knts faster and with higher Pagoda 
junior trench
That being said it's kind of an open secret that Japanese model companies will uh... "conveniently" find yet another undiscovered blueprint to sell new models of. From their ass.
narrow rover
Wait until they rediscover a super Yamato plan with 1-2 knts faster and with hig...
Goddang I hate that marketing trick
It's literally the same as WOWS "SEKRET DOCUMENTS"
Just Japanese
Now... to be fair, it's not inconceivable that they keep finding those because someone found a pile of tank documents in Tomio Hara's attic
narrow rover
They burned some really inane stuff
I think they also got rid of documents that say "we executed civilians" etc, but also... the documents that just straight up say "yea we executed 10,000 POWs" just... exists right there, and people were convicted of war crimes according to those documents
subtle prawn
zealous vine
May I ask why some images on the Secret Projects website have disappeared?
I was searching through the 1938-1945 series of Lions, and found that some of Tzoli's work don't show up
zealous vine
I think they also got rid of documents that say "we executed civilians" etc, but...
Fursona of Shinzo Abe.... 
runic ermine
Today hundreds of years ago: https://share.google/rXFfvu561dGGaX5Kd
junior trench
what's with the obfusated link
runic ermine
what's with the obfusated link
Idk
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
supple sandal
Today I learned:
After a bombing raid on Japan in 1945, some civilians were tryi...
Germans: where are the horses
GOD DAMN THEY USE NO HORSES
IT IS ALL FORD, GM
subtle prawn
autumn sorrel
I couldn't help but to think of that mission from MW3 when I saw this
I thought this was only in video game but it is an actual modification?!!! 
subtle prawn
It seems to be new
autumn sorrel
It seems to be new
Did they connect it with external APU or the Abrams power pack?
narrow rover
IT IS ALL FORD, GM
Same story with the Japanese from what I recall because their trucks at the time weren't that great
The fact that they put a serial number on a freaking carriage is hilarious
subtle prawn
runic ermine
https://x.com/MilHistNow/status/1948973554894340477?t=ORspgFpOINJ05STw__quTg&s=1...
Condor Legion
narrow rover
Yup
The flying war crimes generator
restive widget
Arguably who was the most dangerous Japanese aircraft carrier during WWII?
mental tapir
I'd go with Zuikaku
She was basically Japan's Enterprise until Cape Engano
In that the Americans were constantly trying to locate and sink her and she keeps getting away, albeit with Shokaku taking the hits for her until she sank at Philippine Sea
Even at Cape Engano she managed to pull off one last trick of diverting American forces from Samar
restive widget
So did she meet Enterprise at any point?
mental tapir
Pretty sure their planes crossed paths at Santa Cruz, Philippine Sea and Cape Engano
subtle prawn
zealous vine
There are no prototypes
Ig that's it
I already checked Navweaps btw, I was meaning to look in the books but it seems I should forsake this futile act
humble jewel
https://bsky.app/profile/usni.org/post/3luvab344z22m
Bro became the ghost of the past ☠️
desert agate
subtle prawn
runic ermine
Yup
The flying war crimes generator
Did they deploy any ground troops? I know that some tankers saw action
terse mesa
narrow rover
The first and last jet powered seaplane fighter aircraft
Saunders Roe SRA1
As a concept it was extremely stupid
But at least it looked cool and people built a few of them
narrow rover
I honestly don't want to call that one a seaplane because it's such a radical change from a regular seaplane design
desert agate
Plane
On the sea
Sea plane
Fundamental changes had to be made to the form of the XFY2 in order to allow for supersonic capabilities, you cannot build a traditional 'boat shaped' fuselage when you're intending to make high speed incercepts
Just because it is 'different' doesn't make it any less of a sea plane
mental mulch
Can you explain this monstrosity?
Oh well
This is a tiltrotor VTOL know as the FA 269
Or know as "VTOL figther"
Is a 1 seat VTOL figther
Using a BMW 801 engine, the FA 269 would have been capable to swivelled though 80° degrees
desert agate
I can explain it
Napkin sketch delusions that were given far more attention than they deserved
mental mulch
The plane itself were... A Little goofy as it looks
But hey, atleast it's armed with 30 MM cannon
peak iron blood engineering
desert agate
The RLM was not well known for rational funding allocation
It often funded projects that were clearly failures on arrival, far beyond the point where it was clear to everyone involved that it was a failure, often for the sake of furthering someones political career or the embezzlement of state funds
Some of those failures even reached production, and some even still took hundreds of planes to be built before someone realised how utterly catastrophic the whole thing was
desert agate
Often times the projects came from a rather reasonable set of requirements that any other military would have identified and developed solutions for
However
The German armament industry was more or less the private fiefdom of Hermann Goering, and even further still, Hitlers own personal ideas. The RLM in particular saw a lot of projects turned into multi-year long slogs, absorbing huge amounts of state finances only to deliver nothing, a platform incapable of achieving its requirements, or a platform entirely unsuited for the rigors of warfare
The HE.117 is a prime example, it was a platform that came from the rather reasonable idea that the Luftwaffe needed a long ranged bomber, but then someone decided that it needed more power, and the only way to get that power was to put 2 engines in the same nacelle, and then someone for some reason decided the damn thing needed to be a dive bomber
And so the final product was a plane that constantly caught on fire, didn't really have the range it needed, couldn't carry a payload comparable to what the other powers could carry, and did nothing but absorb funds and resources that could just as well been dedicated to aircraft that would have actually contributed to the war effort
mental mulch
If they didn't decide to make it a dive bomber, that would maybe change the plane history
desert agate
Well it would have removed the need to put all the engines so close together
Which would have solved the cooling problems
But the problem is that the idea that it should be a dive bomber came straight from the OKL, which was headed by Goering, and no one was going to walk up to Goering and tell him how idiotic it was to demand that a long ranged strategic bomber should also be a dive bomber, because doing so risked them being sent to a concentration camp
mental mulch
So most German planes are failures then
desert agate
I wouldn't say that
There was a lot of very good conventional designs, particularly in the first half of the war
the FW190 and bf109 could be argued to have been the finest planes in the world when they first saw combat
The bf110 was an utter failure as a daytime fighter, but when it was equipped with radar it was a highly successful night time bomber hunter
mental mulch
the FW190 and bf109 could be argued to have been the finest planes in the world ...
But also variants, some were pretty good, some were fine, some were bad, and some were never saw in combat or never in production
Take a prime example
desert agate
It's more that a lot of those whacky and wonderful designs you see starting to pop up in the 2nd half of the war, where the German war economy is really starting to put resources that it doesn't have in places that wont give it results
mental mulch
Take a prime example
BF 109 has a good variants, like from A to K
But I think we might not know this one BF variant
BF 109TL
Even I didn't know it was existed
I thought there were only 12 variants
And then I firstly found out there's 1 another variant that I didn't know it existed
remote monolith
I mean the Bf was solid, it was just a design incredibly out of date by late 42 due to being about a decade old
the Fw190 was super solid
remote monolith
The bf110 was an utter failure as a daytime fighter, but when it was equipped wi...
at least until the Luftwaffe simply ran out of trained pilots and eventually airframes
runic ermine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCX6bKhw24c
Thanks
eternal veldt
Let's see if Hit is asleep.
narrow rover
BF109 served for 10 years
Even after WW2 if you include the... variants bought by Israel of all places
For a WW2 plane especially something with not a lot of upgrade potential that is a remarkable lifetime
autumn sorrel
BF109 served for 10 years
Even after WW2 if you include the... variants bought b...
Tbf, what Israel facing in 1947 using the BF109 is relatively old as well
narrow rover
Welp that's 3rd world conflicts for you
grave ravine
I mean the Bf was solid, it was just a design incredibly out of date by late 42 ...
I mean it got plane of theseused multiple times
109F completely redid the garbage 1930s aero
narrow rover
Willie Messerschmitt really was a one hit wonder smh
Frankly the very last generation BF 109s aren't really even 109s
The engine, airframe, everything is so different
If the dual Jumo engines version was ever put into service, it would have basically Pokémon evolved into another plane entirely
narrow rover
The blow your own arms off cannon
I assume the end of it was fixed to the ground to absorb the recoil?
Or do you let yourself get thrown with the gun to absorb it with your own body?
remote monolith
mental tapir
Frankly the very last generation BF 109s aren't really even 109s
The engine, air...
Isn't that the case for the Spitfires too?
Last Spitfire variant basically only sort of similar in shape to the Mk.I?
junior trench
yes but unrelated to the topic
runic ermine
Im going to be honest, I hated school but its what got me introduced to history
And what got me down the path I continue to follow
autumn sorrel
https://vxtwitter.com/AppleTV/status/1950194660363948332
Awww, cute
supple sandal
The bf110 was an utter failure as a daytime fighter, but when it was equipped wi...
How do we know it is successful
desert agate
It had a pretty favourable kill ratio among German nighttime interceptors
narrow rover
Twin engine "fighters" and failing
A very common thing in WW2
In fact the only successful one was the P-38
desert agate
That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read
subtle prawn
narrow rover
I mean, the invasion of Japan... the US knew they had to, but they really really didn't wanna
subtle prawn
https://news.usni.org/2025/07/30/u-k-australia-sign-treaty-ahead-of-developing-new-aukus-attack-boat
timber linden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPujHCqrjWw
narrow rover
There were also a whole bunch of other small details the US did to get a surrender out of the Japanese which sadly doesn't get discussed
junior trench
The only reason the Soviets get mentioned as a possible cause is because people get so caught up in ideological slap fighting they forget to consult the Japanese
TL;DR, the Soviet invasion of Manchuria was planned for, expected, and had zero impact on the Japanese strategic goals for forcing a negotiated peace somehow from the US.
autumn sorrel
TL;DR, the Soviet invasion of Manchuria was planned for, expected, and had *zero...
And if they force their way into Korea Peninsula then it will be a bigger bloodbath than Okinawa
junior trench
a Soviet campaign in Korea with only the Trans-Siberian Railroad and unit organic transport for supply would be such a massive disaster it could change everything about the upcoming Cold War
subtle prawn
narrow rover
And if they force their way into Korea Peninsula then it will be a bigger bloodb...
Kinda wish Roosevelt didn't ask Stalin for help defeating Japan
A lot of planners actually thought Roosevelt did an oopsie at Yalta
That way, Korea probably wouldn't have been divided
Japan would probably have gone GG with just the nukes anyway
And it's also a good thing for Japan too because in that case they probably wouldn't have lost all their northern territories depending on how the postwar negotiations go
Also probably less communism in China
mental mulch
HMS Trafalgar:the other, other Trafalgar
HMS Trafalgar was a decommissioned fifth class of the Trafalgar-class submarine, unlike her sister that use pump-jet propulsion, Trafalgar uses a convention 7 blade propeller, the name of Trafalgar was inspired by the battle if Trafalgar and if not, also the destroyer ship, Trafalgar
Trafalgar decommissioned at 4 December 2009
There's 3 ship that use this name
Trafalgar (destroyer)
Trafalgar (battleship)
And also
Trafalgar (submarine)
timber linden
Kinda wish Roosevelt didn't ask Stalin for help defeating Japan
A lot of planner...
Roosevelt knew what he was doing.
narrow rover
Yea, the idea was that since the Soviets would probably insert themselves into the conflict anyway, better promise them something before they join and just yoink half of Asia
Also not exactly on cold war footing at this stage (1944~1945)
It's just that with hindsight it ended up massively increasing communist presence in Northern Asia
surreal verge
Hello everyone, I'm usually not here but because today is USS Essex's (CV-9) Launch Day, I made a Google Slide about the Essex Class and why it deserves more recognition: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1a12t10k-ihHRAYqywZhuLbwZjuet3q-E3BmQPoqqTZw/edit?usp=drivesdk
zealous vine
Is there a ww2 armor quality index for various navies? As in, Japanese armor was the equivalent of this armor at this thickness attributing to its metallurgy and such.
I've heard about Nathan Okun and his reports, are there any others?
terse mesa
lethal wing
https://youtu.be/oBsOQzd1wMM I must wonder if the Aliseo will be added
8 ships in an hour is just plain badass.
velvet sinew
Mussolini's official policy before growing close to Hitler and before being isolated after Ethiopia:
Sunday, May 14, 1933.
narrow rover
Funnily enough Italy had a tiny chance of ending up on the other side of Germany lol
I mean I guess they eventually did
zealous vine
runic ermine
Funnily enough Italy had a tiny chance of ending up on the other side of Germany...
What do you mean?
narrow rover
runic ermine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stresa_Front
Ah yes that
lethal wing
BMP-2 with dual 23mm
subtle prawn
https://fxtwitter.com/clemens_speer/status/1951198885562429593/en Game over for FCAS
FxTwitter
narrow rover
autumn sorrel
So it is just a bmp-2
"Actually..."
wooden sentinel
mental tapir
This week Japan will be marking the 80th anniversary of the atomic bombs that were dropped on 6th and 9th August 1945
Which means it's time for more cope about how the atomic bombs were unnecessary because the Soviets could have forced Japan to surrender early by invading Manchuria
https://fixupx.com/duckwithagat1/status/1951427286961655863
mental tapir
junior trench
reminder that if you consult the Japanese sources the Soviet invasion of Manchuria was expected, planned for, and irrelevant for their final defensive plans
supple sandal
Embrace "THE BOMBS WERE A JAPANESE CONSPIRACY"
Based
Chat
Am I racist for thinking that Japan should be bomb more based on-
How many war crimes that did happened but they said "never exist"
And the yield is based on the number of victims
narrow rover
...probably worth noting Japan's official stance is "yes they do exist and we did wrong"...
It's just that, uhh, you can't really stop individual politicians from saying otherwise
narrow rover
And the yield is based on the number of victims
I mean Japan has a MASSIVE kill count in WW2, so you'd have to probably kill the entire archipelago... I don't even wanna discuss the logistics of that...
subtle prawn
Speaking of the atom bombs, I remember seeing a post where when somebody was asked why those bombs were dropped on Japan in a museum on a trip there, they answered with the loss of air superiority
narrow rover
Crap, can't find the twitter translation because that shit was hilarious
subtle prawn
I guess it's not wrong, but I'm not sure if I would say that one out loud
narrow rover
I mean I guess the teacher wanted something like "because we went to war" or something anti war like that but... hes right you know...
subtle prawn
The person who asked them wasn't amused by that answer iirc
narrow rover
You ain't nuking Hiroshima if there's 100 Shiden Kais flying overhead
Talking about the bombs, I wish people did more discussion on the decision not to nuke Kyoto. That decision is usually attributed to one man (Henry Stimson)
But decisions like this especially something that important usually... don't change on the whims of one dude, though Alex Wellerstein (NUKEMAP creator) thinks that was somehow the case.
subtle prawn
Did Kyoto even have any military targets worth nuking?
narrow rover
It was one of the last industrial centers left intact
The city managed to dodge any serious bombing thanks to some luck and later (apparantly) Stimson
I guess even if they DID drop Little Boy on it, the biggest change would probably be that a little bit more people could die (since Kyoto has more people in it and thus potentially more people in the bomb's "kill radius", though you'd have to look at population density maps to be sure...)
I did simulations on NUKEMAP and the usual answer I got was "more injuries, less deaths"
Not sure what mechanics cause that
remote monolith
As commander of the Ninth Army, Model was well aware of the utter uselessness of Fegelein as a field commander, but also knew that Himmler would protect Fegelein from any criticism. Consequently, Model resorted to another method of removing him: he submitted glowing reports recommending him for immediate assignment to higher roles. This strategy rapidly bore fruit, and Fegelein was awarded the Knight’s Cross and transferred to the headquarters of the RSHA.
Meat Grinder: The Battles for the Rzhev Salient 1942-43, Prit Buttar, p. 306
subtle prawn
desert agate
I really like this photo because very few pictures of warships actually show the real human scale of these ships
supple sandal
~~You ain't nuking Hiroshima if there's 100 Shiden Kais flying overhead~~
Even if there were any planes left
Not like they can do anything against the B-29s
narrow rover
Yea, it was over 9000 meters
There are very few planes that can go that high
Certain Japanese planes could certainly climb to said height but maneuvering your guns near service celing is a whole different matter entirely
desert agate
Japan did have interceptors capable of hitting the B-29
The imperial government considered the cities and people in those cities to be disposable, acceptable casualties in the war
The planes were to be saved for the invasion that was certain to be coming, to inflict maximum casualties among allied forces no matter the cost
mental tapir
Right, the Japanese strategy of bloodletting
desert agate
People seem to misunderstand the blatant sadism and disregard that the Japanese government held towards its own people
Everything could be sacrificed for the war effort, the Japanese military was fully prepared to accept the nuclear attacks if necessary
It took a coup and subsequent attempted counter coup to bring the military to heel
And even then it almost wasn’t enough
mental tapir
Everything could be sacrificed for the war effort, the Japanese military was ful...
Ehh that I'm not so sure; even if the emperor and military brass survived by hunkering in their bunkers, I'm not so sure they'd be keen to rule over irradiated wasteland
desert agate
The attempted coup of the 15th of August 1945 says otherwise
mental tapir
Besides, you're not exactly going to be able to trade civilian lives for Allied soldiers' lives in operation downfall if said civilians already perished from the nukes
Also speaking of the coup^
desert agate
The potential success of the coup is irrelevant the fact is that it happened
mental tapir
desert agate
The fact that elements of the military government would attempt a coup with no chance of success speaks to the mentality of the military at the time
The atomic bombings were more or less a bluff that worked
The Allies dropped the bombs so close together to make the Japanese believe that a nuclear stockpile already existed
And that bombs would fall every few days until the Japanese surrendered or ceased to exist
This was what gave the civilian and pro-surrender military factions of the government the political impetus to execute a soft coup and force the surrender
Had the Japanese known that the next bomb was weeks away at least, they may well have reconsidered their prospects
supple sandal
assuming the american dont just ramp up production like they did with everything else
desert agate
That’s not how nuclear weapons production worked
narrow rover
The Americans dropped bomb x2 in quick succession WHERE IT COULD BE NOTICED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE (IMPORTANT!!!) to avoid that exact outcome
At this stage of the war the US is getting really squeamish about actually invading Japan
No one wants to sacrifice a gorillion troops
(Except the Japanese, of course...)
narrow rover
People seem to misunderstand the blatant sadism and disregard that the Japanese ...
Civilians in Yokohama considered the US troops to be kind because they didn't beat or rape civilians. Mind you quite early on in the occupation, apparently order there broke down somewhat and there was this one infamous case that I can't describe without getting probably banned
So the citizens of Yokohama experienced THAT, and thought:
"I think they're better than our troops"
remote monolith
So the citizens of Yokohama experienced THAT, and thought:
"I think they're bett...
fun thing about this is that Imperial Japanese culture actually entrenched senority and bullying within Indonesian school culture
much of the issues in Indonesian schools rn stems from the brutal way Imperial Japanese instructors taught their own students, which got passed on to civilian life
narrow rover
I heard same things about our (Korean) system but I didn't know it impacted Indonesia that much, considering Japan was only in there for maybe 4 years or so
remote monolith
the modern Indonesian school system owed many of its apparatus to the changes Japan brought over here
they introduced 12 years compulsory education among other things, something that the Dutch refused to give
but the cultural trappings got carried over too
shit like killer teachers and allat
narrow rover
I've been trying to look into Indonesia's population loss due to WW2 and I've been getting everything from "2% 1941 borders" to "10% 1941 borders"
remote monolith
its difficult to determine the percentage, but total lives lost was about 4-5 million
last I checked
supple sandal
remote monolith
oh right also regarding Japanese influence, another disturbing thing was the highly militarized style of teachings
barking orders, corporal punishment, full obedience to teachers with no room for debate
these were the norm up until the 2000s and only beginning to fade relatively recently
mental tapir
The Sukarno and Suharto dictatorships probably didn't help
narrow rover
its difficult to determine the percentage, but total lives lost was about 4-5 mi...
Considering Indonesia's population was around 70 million, that's about 5% or a bit lower
Somewhere between Japan and Germany in terms of losses, but no way to replenish it
(Japan recalled its empire, and Germany had the "fortune" of having to accept expelled Germans from Eastern Europe)
remote monolith
The Sukarno and Suharto dictatorships probably didn't help
Suharto was also educated in Japanese learning camps so
lmao
the modern Indonesian Army owed their existence to the various paramilitary orgs Japan set up
mental tapir
Oof
Somehow Singapore managed to mostly avoid that
Not sure about Malaysia though
remote monolith
there was an attempt to replicate the Indonesian model in Malaysia iirc, didn't pan out
narrow rover
A part of Singapore's success is that it's quite small (thus quite easy to order things around) and was actually quite wealthy even before the so called "economic miracle"
Malaysia is bigger than Japan in terms of landmass
subtle prawn
Was the outcome of this competition ever in doubt? It seemed like a foregone conclusion to me
narrow rover
Mogameme
desert agate
Was the outcome of this competition ever in doubt? It seemed like a foregone con...
It very much was in doubt
The MEKO platform has a lot of advantages over the Mogami platform, as the design is very similar to the Anzac platform (itself based on an older MEKO design) allowing for a strong commonality in parts, training and industry
While we don't know the internals of the discussion, it has been said that Mogami was the favourite of the political establishment such as DFAT, while MEKO, thanks to its economic advantages, was the preferred platform of some elements of the Navy
I think what really tipped the scale was Japan offering ships that are already under construction, which means the first ship will be in service to meet the deadline established by the Surface Fleet Review
This will still be a serious challenge for Australian and Japanese industry
Japan has never had a defence export sale of this size, and to complicate matters further, they also have to export the industrial expertise required to build the ships to a foreign yard
This will require a lot of changes to Japanese law, as well as serious adaptation from Japanese industry
As the first 3 ships will be built overseas, Australian industry will need to adapt to upgrading the shipyards in Western Australia
These yards are in serious need of upgrade, and the government has dedicated a lot of money to upgrading the Henderson yard, including nationalising the areas that will be building the new ships
Interacting with a new seller is always a complex process, made even more so by the fact that Japan has never done this before
This introduces serious risk to the program that may cause delays which we cannot afford.
TMK is a known factor, we purchased from them before, the Anzac program produced a highly successful class of warship which has served nearly 30 years
Government is going to need to prepare to face these challenges
junior trench
the Mogamis aren't exactly well fitted out for wartime crew sizes
desert agate
This was a decision made for expediency rather than raw capability
Which realistically, is what the Australian defence establishment needs right now
The Anzac replacement was delayed too long, the number of ships the RAN ordered, too few
This is basically a course correction that will deliver a platform that may not be the best for what we need, but will deliver capability sooner than the alternative
Government has finally realised the sense of returning to the standard hull count recommended by the 1986 defence white paper
cinder escarp
As I try not to comment much about anything modern, even if warships, I'll just say this deal also sets connections in tone for when Aukus falls apart as well. (The magical, excessively boost in sub building isn't happening in either the UK or US needed to make it work. Especially the UK, which is actively slipping.)
desert agate
Fortunately SSN AUKUS wont be built in the UK or US
desert agate
have you perhaps considered posting the English wiki article?
mental mulch
I forgot
😔
Wrong post
The XB70 is a retired experimental supersonic nuclear armed bomber that was designed to hold(if I not right) 14 nuclear weapons
The plane can climb up to 70 hundreds feet and can reach up to mach 3
But shorty after the prototype, the plane was retired in 1969 due to a incident
desert agate
it was cancelled because it was obsolete before it could enter service
narrow rover
It's a remarkable feat of engineering but
It's also a bit stupid
mental mulch
It would be... A devastating bomber if they actually uses their brain
There might be also a safety concern for pilots
That is flying this plane
desert agate
it would be utterly useless if it entered service and immediately shot down by Soviet SAMs
mental mulch
Anyways...
Can I send some more history things again?
I'm onto history of planes, ship, tanks, and guns
supple sandal
X
subtle prawn
velvet sinew
The Sukarno and Suharto dictatorships probably didn't help
sukarno was right to be authoritarian when the country first gained independence
indonesia was a country that just gained independence at the time and i am pretty sure that it was very unstable/had numerous different ethnic groups
stability and order need to be secured first
junior trench
cinder escarp
it would be utterly useless if it entered service and immediately shot down by S...
It would have still been immune to anything save S-200, which are hardly everywhere.
(S-200 also being the reason A-12/SR-71s were forbidden from soviet turf)
subtle prawn
remote monolith
sukarno was right to be authoritarian when the country first gained independence
Uh, yeah, completely wrong lmao
Indonesia wasn't authoritarian at first
In fact he willingly became powerless for about a decade as head of state, not head of government
His turn to dictatorship only happened in 1959 and it made things much worse
subtle prawn
I seem to recall seeing a quote where some soldier/policeman said they didn't really know what they were fighting for other than defeating communism
remote monolith
That's for later, in the post-PKI purges of mid 60s
autumn sorrel
https://fxtwitter.com/SofiGaming/status/1952757110909047204
Very MTLB vibe
cinder escarp
Very MTLB vibe
The actual concept had far stronger MT-LB vibes
look at that running gear
timber linden
https://fxtwitter.com/SofiGaming/status/1952757110909047204
desert agate
sukarno was right to be authoritarian when the country first gained independence
Pure cope
autumn sorrel
Be US Army
Need replacement for Gavin Box
Turretless Brad, Tracked Stryker
No Abrams chassis APC
narrow rover
sukarno was right to be authoritarian when the country first gained independence
You do get the same logic with pretty much every dictator
Chiang was a notable one, like his entire ideology was that the party should "guide" the population to democracy
Turns out once you have power you never want to leave the "guiding" phase...
spice idol
narrow rover
Not 140,000 people
That's more than the two bombs combined
Hiroshima, maximum probably 90,000 or so. You can maybe edge it closer to 140k if you include people affected by radiation sickness
spice idol
Кстати бомбёжку Хиросимы и Нагасаки я считаю военным преступлением!
By the way, I consider the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a war crime!
subtle prawn
supple sandal
Кстати бомбёжку Хиросимы и Нагасаки я считаю военным преступлением!
By the way, ...
brother
Please be better at rage bait next time
junior trench
Кстати бомбёжку Хиросимы и Нагасаки я считаю военным преступлением!
By the way, ...
Interesting. Please cite the relevant law concerning the matter in force in 1945 to make this consideration.
"War crime" is a defined legal term, and as the average person is under the mistaken impression attacking a retreating force is criminal, it's best to ascertain if we're dealing with an actual legal argument or a vibes based one.
spice idol
But I said one sorry on Russian but
Если это не считается военным преступлением то как объяснить все эти жертвы
junior trench
Ah so we're dealing with vibes based, where big numbers make people feel bad, so they assume it must be criminal.
narrow rover
Кстати бомбёжку Хиросимы и Нагасаки я считаю военным преступлением!
By the way, ...
ENGLISH DO YOU SPEAK IT
Also it's not really a war crime
do wish they blew up some other place, not Nagasaki... it's my favorite East Asian city
Tbh around this time... quite frankly what is and isn't a war crime is a bit... vibes based
junior trench
A whole new category was created, yes
narrow rover
A part of it is why things like the Nuremberg trials and the Tokyo trials were such fuster clucks
junior trench
But even if one wasn't there'd still be trials
autumn sorrel
Кстати бомбёжку Хиросимы и Нагасаки я считаю военным преступлением!
By the way, ...
It isn't
narrow rover
From what I remember some Brits and French + Soviets just wanted to shoot the few dozen guys they don't particularly like without trial and be done with it
The US really pushed for trials to be held
autumn sorrel
Problem with Nuremberg and Tokyo trial is that both are flawed trials
narrow rover
Though the scale of it all kept getting smaller and smaller as tike went on, as far as Japan is considered before the war ended someone suggested putting half a million(!) on trial, then 50,000, then 5,000... in the end, Soviets and WAllies combined maybe a bit under 10,000 were tried.
Though the Soviets did so many executions without trial I doubt it matters on that side, in which case the number of people tried by WAllies is close to 6000
autumn sorrel
Nuremberg was having too much emotion and Allies attempt of painting Nazi Germany as an insane state and its leadership as a group of madmen that initiated the war for shit and giggle while Tokyo Trials literally trialed a Japanese Civil Official bc he did not do enough to stop war meanwhile let go many elements of IJN and IJA that committed blatant war crimes bc Mcunter want to play Emperor of Far East.
narrow rover
War crimes trials are almost always cluster shits sadly
It's not like the trials after the recent Yugoslav wars and such were any much better
At least the most dangerous ones were usually neutralized...
Though I guess the most dangerous dude of all (Tsuji Masanobu) sort of... disappeared into thin air
autumn sorrel
It's not like the trials after the recent Yugoslav wars and such were any much b...
Problem with Yugoslav civil war is that if the trial was conduct correctly then everyone is guilty
narrow rover
Yea
There's always a level of "fuck law vengeance mode" with these trials
At Tokyo for instance you had
- vengeance mode
- let's have fair trial
- I am a military man and I will not sentence fellow military men
- I want to troll the British (the Indian judge)
And
5) I don't care I wanna go home
autumn sorrel
Well, if you want an example of pettiness then Yamashita case come up, Allies want to convict him so hard that they created entire new standard in determine warcrimes by making Commanding Officers responsible for the subordinate actions even if they are unaware or unable to enforce order to prevent warcimes.
Then US promptly refuse to even prosecute their owns based on the Standards that they created to trialed Yamashita
narrow rover
Someone had to take the dive for the disaster that became Manila
Yamashita, and a certain Sa-Ik Hong... the only Korean to ever serve the IJA as a commander, was also executed.
I know why they did it, but considering the South Korean army had so many issues in the Korean War due to the lack of senior commanders, if Sa-ik Hong was spared and later given a command post in the Korean army he would have been pretty useful
autumn sorrel
Funny seeing how Park Chung Hee managed to climb so far despite his past
autumn sorrel
I know why they did it, but considering the South Korean army had so many issues...
Nah, ROKA still going to be dysfunctional mess that somehow staved to death tens of thousand of conscript bc they embezzled the money for food.
narrow rover
Funny seeing how Park Chung Hee managed to climb so far despite his past
We had to let a lot of collaborators free because if we killed all those guys, there would have been literally no educated persons to run the country
Funnily enough that was also the case with China a bit, because... recent scholarship suggests collaborator troops exceeded two million. The majority of Japanese troops fighting in China were collaborators... after the war ended most of them just disappeared into nationalist or communist armies depending on their preferred ideology
Some even fled to Japan proper
autumn sorrel
Funnily enough that was also the case with China a bit, because... recent schola...
You will be surprised to realize how much of percentage of troop of PLA in 1949 are of ex Kuomintang troop that defect only a few months before the war end.
The defection is so wide spread that CCP and PLA assumed that Taiwan would be an easy case seeing how much demoralize the Nationalist troops were, to a point that entire division switch side. It turn out to be a false assumption that deal PLA some heavy defeat when whatever Troop that Kuomintang managed to evacuate or relocate to Taiwan are one of the most die hard and fanatic to the Nationalist causes.
narrow rover
I'm not that surprised actually
China had been essentially a "mercenary society" where people chose their loyalties based on who paid well/who was winning/etc for a goddamn while now, and defection was basically... the norm
narrow rover
The defection is so wide spread that CCP and PLA assumed that Taiwan would be an...
The "filtering" process arguably made the KMT a lot more functional on Taiwan
And allowed them to somewhat avoid the fuster cluck that was their governance on the mainland...
Still it sucked for a goddamn while, and it's why there's "Taiwan independence"
autumn sorrel
Mainland Chinese Communist narratives have traditionally claimed that the 12th Army Corps was largely composed of forcibly conscripted recruits during this period, leading to an expectation among PLA commanders that its combat morale and effectiveness would be low during the Battle of Kuningtou. However, reports emerging from independent media sources since the 2000s suggest a more complex reality. According to these accounts, a significant portion of the new recruits were in fact volunteers, many being descendants of landlord and wealthy farming families who had suffered persecution during the early Chinese Soviet Republic period. In particular, a large number were drawn from the former Kiangsi Soviet Base region and were known as Southern Kiangsi Recruits (贛南子弟). This background, combined with deep grievances against earlier Communist purges, contributed to the unexpectedly high morale and resilience displayed by ROC forces during the battle.
narrow rover
It would have sucked ass for Chinese people at the time
You have
- murderous authoritarian regime
- murderous authoritarian regime
- be a "bandit"
autumn sorrel
It would have sucked ass for Chinese people at the time
You have
1) murderous a...
I mean, Chiang might be an authoritarian dictator but he isn't "Great Leap Forward" level of stupid.
narrow rover
I mean, Chiang might be an authoritarian dictator but he isn't "Great Leap Forwa...
Think he's more comparable to someone like Suharto
Mao is something else, once in a century figure really
Chiang is a weird one. He himself was supposedly quite clean from corruption but kept absolutely corrupt and inept people in positions of power (partially because he had no choice)
But also
Mao Zedong was also not that corrupt himself so
I doubt personal wrongdoings matter much here, more like where their ideologies can take the country
timber linden
But my college professor said that the ccp has brought paradise to the people's of china.
timber linden
I mean, Chiang might be an authoritarian dictator but he isn't "Great Leap Forwa...
Sparrows were cia robot spy drones
narrow rover
But my college professor said that the ccp has brought paradise to the people's...
Chinese history in academia is weird man
Especially the recent ones...
desert agate
The Pentagon and current administration are making a serious mistake in their plan to cancel the E-7 platform
Doing so would be utterly disastrous for American global power projection, and for the USAFs ability to conduct effective battle management
Allied air forces in Europe and Asia will be able to provide support with their own fleets, but the USAF must maintain its own capability
subtle prawn
Last I checked, Congress and some military officials were pushing for the E-7
desert agate
Boeing Australia, and the RAAF has delivered the USAF a perfect capability for replacing the E-3, they would be foolish to not take it
desert agate
Last I checked, Congress and some military officials were pushing for the E-7
In the interest of avoiding political discussion, I won't go too far into that but I do think that there is a serious inability for military officials to effectively challenge the current administration
autumn sorrel
The Pentagon and current administration are making a serious mistake in their pl...
I guess they are putting everything into Golden Dome and the monitoring Sats for the system. They probably will initiate a program to modernize and maintain the E-3 fleet for at least 1 more decade if they can somehow squirrel enough fund for it.
subtle prawn
Apparently, the administration is instead pushing for the E-2?
desert agate
Ridiculous proposals
Space based tech just isn’t where it needs to be to replace the AWACS yet
And the E-2, while a good platform, is not a 1-1 replacement for the E-3 or E-7
autumn sorrel
Apparently, the administration is instead pushing for the E-2?
Hawkeye? They complained about survivability but pick Hawkeye?
mental tapir
Any reason why they aren't just ordering EL/W 2085s from their good buddy Israel?
Also iirc F-35 can double as mini AWACs too, no?
burnt scarab
narrow rover
WW2 videos about France are all quite funny
"The French aren't stupid"
shows the French being stupid
spring briar
What
narrow rover
spring briar
Nice another video that provides factual information about smth french with constant subtle insults strewn about just because haha
mental tapir
Huntziger and his consequences
Has anyone ever wargame-ed an alt-hist where the French didn't fumble as many things and thus managed to hold off the Nazis?
junior trench
that involves so many changes you're just wargaming a force nominally called the French military
even if you discount the fumbles things just don't get communicated fast enough
narrow rover
Has anyone ever wargame-ed an alt-hist where the French didn't fumble as many th...
The French would have to be supernaturally good
It's not impossible I assume but unlikely
spring briar
No
Just a more comprehensive air presence over the ardennes would at the very least avoid a complete surprise scenario like irl
It might not save france
But it would delay the germans for far longer than we have seen
narrow rover
Probably
junior trench
anyway I'll see if I can't the AH forum thread about the French accidentally-ing their way into creating the Paris Cauldron due to the force meant to stop the Germans from assaulting Paris arriving late, and instead cutting off their supply train and the followup forces
stemming from the decision to not invest so much into the Netherlands
so there was a reserve available
spice idol
narrow rover
English do you speak it
"Russia wins the land battle of the Russo Japanese war but loses the sea battle"
autumn sorrel
"Russia wins the land battle of the Russo Japanese war but loses the sea battle"
Mahan “Control of the Sea mean you win the War ”
Yeah, no way Russia can capitalize on small land victory when their infrastructure at Vladivostok and Trans-Siberian rail line cannot sustained the kind of force that needed to break the siege at Port Arthur meanwhile Japan Control of the Sea mean that they can directly ship over manpower and supplies from the main Island with ease.
autumn sorrel
Nice another video that provides factual information about smth french with cons...
Tbf, some of the reason why French aviation industry failed does make you scratch your head and questioning why did they stubbornly clinging on a bad model.
I would attribute it to French being French
narrow rover
Mahan “Control of the Sea mean you win the War <:EssexWheeze:1113921620277461033...
Best case scenario for the Russians the war is drawn out and Japan runs out of men and money
autumn sorrel
Best case scenario for the Russians the war is drawn out and Japan runs out of m...
Yeah, Russian will lose Port Arthur way before that.
narrow rover
I mean, Japan can't storm Moscow
So just KEEP FIGHTING
ENDSIEG LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW
...and they can win
autumn sorrel
The moment Japanese Siege gun got to the height that overwatch Port Arthur, the fate of Russian garrison was sealed.
narrow rover
Would it be worth it? Hell fucking no
But if Japan gets less out of Russo Japanese war, maybe WW2 can be prevented
autumn sorrel
I mean, Japan can't storm Moscow
So just KEEP FIGHTING
ENDSIEG LIKE THERES NO TO...
Again, Japan don’t need to reach Moscow to win, they aren’t aiming for a total war but war to seize concessions
narrow rover
I know, but I'm also pointing out the Russians also had the bigger reserve of men and money to drag out the conflict and eventually exhaust Japan if they wanted to.
autumn sorrel
But if Japan gets less out of Russo Japanese war, maybe WW2 can be prevented
Japan think they didn’t got enough from the War and they resented US for negotiated the peace treaty.
autumn sorrel
I know, but I'm also pointing out the Russians also had the bigger reserve of me...
Russian bigger reserve of manpower mean nothing if they cannot deploy them in force in the Far East and again, IJN control the Sea, Russian literally is fighting with a stressed out supply line mean while Japan might as well is fighting on home turf.
narrow rover
I mean that's generally the issue with any alternative RJW scenarios
Probably just preventing the war entirely would have been easier
Or you can... potentially have Japan get a worse deal out of the 1st Sino Japanese war but losing to the Qing in THAT stage would have been harder than winning
autumn sorrel
Or you can... potentially have Japan get a worse deal out of the 1st Sino Japane...
The Russo-Japanese war was the result of they getting the worse deal out of Qing bc Russian jump in right at the end.
narrow rover
The Russo-Japanese war was the result of they getting the worse deal out of Qing...
Without the reparations Japan got out of the Qing or the prestige boost they got out of the whole war, they can't really do their naval buildup program
autumn sorrel
Nah, IJN already on their way toward being the Top Dog in the Area. This is literally the period where Vicker Amstrong will sell to foreign customers better ship then whatever RN have back at home.
Just bc IJN at the time was a having a bit of French influence doesn’t mean they can’t change and they did.
spring briar
I would attribute it to French being French
It is clear you have never had to deal with contractors
Also why the sudden mention of French influence on the IJN
As if it was a bad thing
autumn sorrel
It is clear you have never had to deal with contractors
I mean, the sub contractor that I have experienced working with tend to work over time to finish an order.
autumn sorrel
Also why the sudden mention of French influence on the IJN
Bc IJN at the time of 1st Sino-Japanese war was heavily influenced by Jeune Ecole. I am not saying it is a bad thing, IJN at the time cannot afford many large vessel, but that school of thought is frankly flawed and not suited if you intend to become a major power.
junior trench
I mean
"heavily influenced" is a bit of an understatement for the IJN of that particular war
considering who the effective chief naval engineer was
cough
spring briar
Emile Bertin wasn’t even a classic jeune ecole advocate
The reluctance of Japan to continue work with French contractors after the russo japanese war is not because of the Jeune École
It was because of an unsatisfactory gun and a cruiser that was lost in a storm
Which both boil down to putting guns that are too heavy on hulls that are not large enough
The guns being a wish from Bertin
And the ships being a result of jeune ecole shenanigans decreasing french dockyard size
autumn sorrel
So, still Jeune Ecole fault?
spring briar
The purely jeune ecole aspects worked out well for japan in both wars
Modern QF guns in the sino japanese war
And torpedos in the russo japanese war
And mines ofc
autumn sorrel
Yeah but we don’t really see much of long range commerce raider do we?
spring briar
What do you think their armoured cruisers did
Japan mistakenly added them to the battle-line but ok
narrow rover
The reluctance of Japan to continue work with French contractors after the russo...
Didn't the French at least on paper support the Russians?
spring briar
This mention of yours can again be traced back to “france bad” because you misunderstood what did the heavy lifting in the naval battles of the russo japanese wars
spring briar
Didn't the French at least on paper support the Russians?
They were allies at this time but thats irrelevant to the discussion
Also just for clarification, yes the Jeune Ecole was overall a bad thing for france in the lead up to WW1
autumn sorrel
What do you think their armoured cruisers did
Honestly, not much. Sure they are effective in battle but the long range raider that putting pressure on enemy commerce never really materialize.
autumn sorrel
This mention of yours can again be traced back to “france bad” because you misun...
I never said that “French is bad”. My main problem is that France made a lot of weird and frankly bad decision that turn around and bite them in the ass later.
spring briar
Or can be used to punch trough russian cruiser screens
spring briar
I never said that “French is bad”<:EmileSip:495396687158968321>. My main problem...
No we were discussing why French influence on the IJN was in fact not a bad thing.
autumn sorrel
No we were discussing why French influence on the IJN was in fact not a bad thin...
I mean, I intend to elaborate that IJN were heavily influenced by French school of thought but they were able to change and develop a new school based on their own experience and doctrinal needs.
spring briar
And as for things that would “bite them in the ass later”
What do you think british influence did
spring briar
I mean, I intend to elaborate that IJN were heavily influenced by French school ...
Yes
But it’s not a bad thing
They practically dropped france over night as a supplier
Yet kept using the technology and tactics to great success
Curious
autumn sorrel
And as for things that would “bite them in the ass later”
What do you think brit...
Tbf, despite Kantai Kessen specifically calling for bigger guns you still going to need battleship no matter what.
autumn sorrel
They practically dropped france over night as a supplier
Yet kept using the tech...
I mean, the whole rely on long range raider and torpedo boat don’t really help you attain Sea Control but their use is certainly effective.
spring briar
Heck
He wanted 12” armed fully armoured cruisers as an upgrade
Hardly jeune ecole now is it
autumn sorrel
Heck
He wanted 12” armed fully armoured cruisers as an upgrade
Are we sure that Fisher isn’t Bertin reincarnated?
spring briar
There are strong parallels
spring briar
I mean, the whole rely on long range raider and torpedo boat don’t really help y...
I mean it sure did for Japan though?
And they later built their battleships anyways?
autumn sorrel
I mean it sure did for Japan though?
And they later built their battleships anyw...
Isn’t that my point? That they have success with old doctrine but see the flaws and changes?
spring briar
Just bc IJN at the time was a having a bit of French influence doesn’t mean they...
TL;DR
This is a bad faith statement
Plain and simple.
Or simply a result of Royal Navy propaganda
Who can say
spring briar
Isn’t that my point? That they have success with old doctrine but see the flaws ...
.
You initial point was that French influence was bad
And it was probably bad faith because you earlier plainy said “i would attribute it to french being french”
Also you talk about effective sea power and control but also diss Mahan
spring briar
Mahan “Control of the Sea mean you win the War <:EssexWheeze:1113921620277461033...
.
Now what is it
autumn sorrel
Just bc IJN at the time was a having a bit of French influence doesn’t mean they can’t change and they did.
I am not saying it is a bad thing, IJN at the time cannot afford many large vessel, but that school of thought is frankly flawed and not suited if you intend to become a major power.
Richie, where did I make a "French is bad" argument?
spring briar
Read above
autumn sorrel
And it was probably bad faith because you earlier plainy said “i would attribute...
Yeah, about the point where French Aviation industry worker refuse to work overtime and hate assembly line working despite a State of War were declared, not French military bad.
autumn sorrel
.
Yeah, I was talking about how Russian Navy were trapped inside Port Arthur and cannot sortie out to disrupt Japanese supply shipping. IJN have effectively achieve what Mahan want, Control of the Sea. How is that a diss?
spring briar
Yeah, I was talking about how Russian Navy were trapped inside Port Arthur and c...
And they achieved it using jeune ecole for a large part
: )
autumn sorrel
And they achieved it using jeune ecole for a large part
Richie, I said Jeune Ecole is flawed, not that it is not effective
That is like a big different between me saying "focus on small boat and not battleship is bad in the long run" and me making outrage statement like "French is smelly and their ships suck" .
spring briar
Jeune ecole is flawed in the context of the french navy
But in general for small navies it is an effective way to conduct the mahanian doctrine against a larger more traditional naval opponent
Also
Being half french myself
If I seem defensive and arrogant
It is because I’m sick n tired of the bs
autumn sorrel
Also
Being half french myself
If I seem defensive and arrogant
It is because I’...
So, I should limiting my ripping to Sausages and Beer?
maiden citrus
sausages? where
maiden citrus
guess I'll die then
spice idol
narrow rover
Reckon Admiral Rozhestvensky could have won the battle of Tsushima if he bothered to hose down his ships before meeting Togo
Togo had the wrong choice of fuses and he quite literally went into battle with no AP
Japanese essentially HE spammed the fuck out of Russian ships, and it worked somehow
Then again I don't think any ship with substantial armor got citadel'd at Tsushima. That weird timeframe where armor is somehow beating shells
spring briar
That won’t save them from the underwater damage
What the Russian ships need is thicker waterline plating on the bow and stern
The Japanese went into battle with black powder shells with german fuzes
In essence they were firing low order HE shells
Which love setting fires but have no real penetrative qualities
The Russians on the other hand have very nice AP shells but their bursters were too inert
Quick fix would be to swap the wet pyroxilin bursters with black powder or drier TNT bursters
To start causing good fragmentation behind Japanese armor
autumn sorrel
The Japanese went into battle with black powder shells with german fuzes
In esse...
Yeah but when you factor in the relatively untrained Russian Conscript sailor in damage control, the crews was overwhelmed and order was lost.
narrow rover
I recall the Russian admiral doing quite a decent job training his crews
autumn sorrel
His own ship crew, the rest was so so
narrow rover
The voyage took months, it's draining as hell on the crew yes but it's also a lot of time to train
spring briar
Yeah but when you factor in the relatively untrained Russian Conscript sailor in...
They weren’t untrained
They were overwhelmed by flooding and fire
narrow rover
Yea
Mind you at the battle of Tsushima although the Russians have more BBs... the Japanese actually have more guns
92 guns vs 127, though the Japanese have less fire weight
So the Japanese essentially HE spammed the fuck out of the Russians
autumn sorrel
They were overwhelmed by flooding and fire
I mean, yeah. I can't say for sure about the level of training but there are big different between practice under control situation and "Oh shit, everything is on fire".
narrow rover
I just wish the Soviets didn't completely slander the Russian admiral
The 2nd pacific squadrons story is about half fiction and other half truth
Because the Soviets had a vested interest in making the imperial Russians look dumb
autumn sorrel
Not to mention, this is the Baltic fleet we are talking about, not likely the first pick for quality manpower
autumn sorrel
Because the Soviets had a vested interest in making the imperial Russians look d...
As if current public don't
narrow rover
As if current public don't
It just fucks with sources because you can't find which one is right
autumn sorrel
I swear, just bc hating on Russia is acceptable that now everything they ever did was dumb
narrow rover
Anyway, what people think Tsushima was about: Japanese having better training, Russians sucking
What it really was about: Mines, British BB is apparantly the tankiest thing in the universe
Mikasa absorbed something like 29 hits and didn't falter
While the same amount of hits usually put a Russian ship on the seafloor
Like all the important ship losses in the whole war aside from the ones at Tsushima itself was to mines
the two Japanese BBs that went down, and Russia losing Admiral Makarov and Petropavlovsk
Though arguably the latter somewhat influenced the former
spring briar
What it really was about: Mines, British BB is apparantly the tankiest thing in ...
Everything is tanky against inert bursters
narrow rover
That, and Britain at this stage has pre dread construction down to a T
spring briar
Yeah they were rather nicely subdivided
glass talon
HMAS Sydney II (modified Leander class light cruiser) memorial, Geraldton WA
zealous vine
Had the UK any favor, mock-ups or even physical prototypes for the autoloaders on the 1945 Lions
narrow cloak
HMAS Sydney II (modified Leander class light cruiser) memorial, Geraldton WA
Is this the one been sunk by German Merchant Ship?
glass talon
Is this the one been sunk by German Merchant Ship?
The raider Kormoran, yes (according to the plaque)
remote monolith
AI, TikTok, and blatant propaganda for an autocratic regime
the unholy pyramid right here
autumn sorrel
AI, TikTok, and blatant propaganda for an autocratic regime
I really were expecting something with higher quality. Like, at least don't insult my intellectual by posting low quality shit.
mental tapir
spice idol
https://youtu.be/kAxFvT-ZRnQ?si=JuNPYDZFrNMaRmyt
The film vividly depicts the battles for the Grozny hospital complex, which is occupied by Russian soldiers under the command of Colonel Suvorov. In one of the battles, the colonel lost an eye. The city hospital was surrounded on January 4, 1995. The building is stormed by a group of militants led by the former doctor of this hospital, Dukuz Israfilov. Arabs, Afghan mujahideen, and black mercenaries have sided with the Chechens. A dialogue is conducted on air between Colonel Suvorov and the commander of the Chechen militants...
spice idol
yeah I am in agreement to ban this guy
are you out of your mind?
at least I didn't do anything bad to anyone
supple sandal
spice idol
And how did we see Russian speech oh Russian occupiers came, oh Russians are killing Ukrainians, oh speak English. So I will tell you roll like a sausage and down Malaya Spasskaya. At least I speak English too but I do not insult or do we not recognize history and do not want to learn?
Or do we only know how to send and ban?
runic ermine
What's up
spice idol
Hi
runic ermine
How are you?
Im doing ok
spice idol
Im doing ok
Tunguska wants me to be banned for nothing
autumn sorrel
And how did we see Russian speech oh Russian occupiers came, oh Russians are kil...
- You don't ask anything or contribute any meaningful conversation about any historical argument
- You constantly posting Russian propaganda and then act dumb when someone else ask you to use English
- Your English suck, using google translate can only carry you thus far.
autumn sorrel
https://youtu.be/PqLrtR8tuW4
"How did US getting a "Brrrrrrrt" machine?"
"You see, it all started with this dentist guy,..."
spice idol
1. You don't ask anything or contribute any meaningful conversation about any hi...
It is not for you to decide, at least I do not propagate out of spite, and you would only have to accuse me of something, at least I do not stab in the back and I love my homeland and do not wish for its collapse, unlike others, and I do not attack from behind!
autumn sorrel
Man, I missed talking to Russian, they always use formal writing
spice idol
And I'll ask you another question if you don't mind?
spice idol
At least I don’t shoot in the back, since I myself am a man of honor and I am always open to conversation if you want to talk to me, sir.
autumn sorrel
Then you should learn English? If you actually wanting to add something to the conversation then you should at least understand what are we talking about most of the time, yes?
spice idol
I finished English back in school and I have no problems with it yet and some moment I agree with you.
runic ermine
At least I don’t shoot in the back, since I myself am a man of honor and I am al...
What he means is ask your question
spice idol
What he means is ask your question
This is about history
autumn sorrel
I mean, we did have a debate over Russo-Japanese war yesterday, I don't have access to Russian archive nor some of the more obscure book, it would have been perfect moment for you to actually add something that we didn't know.
runic ermine
This is about history
OK. Then ask
spice idol
It's about F86 Sabre
autumn sorrel
At least I don’t shoot in the back, since I myself am a man of honor and I am al...
Ah, you were answering to my "shoot" comment. It is an expression of telling the opposite party to talk freely.
spice idol
Did even one Sabre fall into the hands of the Russian or Chinese army during the Korean War in 1950-53?
spice idol
Ah, you were answering to my "shoot" comment. It is an expression of telling the...
I don’t object, either side can respond with their own opinion.
After all, I am a history buff myself.
autumn sorrel
Did even one Sabre fall into the hands of the Russian or Chinese army during the...
No, there were rarely any defection of US airman
spice idol
Why do you think that Sabre fighters did not fall into Russian hands?
narrow rover
Why the fuck would they
autumn sorrel
Why do you think that Sabre fighters did not fall into Russian hands?
Because why would they? Only time that you can get an intact plane is either the pilot defect or you overrun the airbase where the plane are unable to evacuate. If you are asking about whether USSR getting information from downed planes that they can retrieve debris from then yes, they did.
In October 1951, the Soviets managed to recover a downed Sabre, and in their investigation of the type they concluded that the Sabre's advantage in combat was due to the APG-30 gun-sight that facilitated accurate fire at longer ranges.
spice idol
> In October 1951, the Soviets managed to recover a downed Sabre, and in their i...
credit 5 out of 5
Well, sometimes it's hard to find someone to argue with about history)
You know how to fight back, if I say it with humor)
Documental TV series about War in Korea)
https://youtu.be/qx9zdWruR4I?si=0jR8t0Q4I8AaLRBm
subtle prawn
spice idol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B1AkE6ePo8
It's quite a situation, but it's better not to show it to the Poles.
junior trench
https://youtu.be/kAxFvT-ZRnQ?si=JuNPYDZFrNMaRmyt
The film vividly depicts the ba...
"black mercenaries"
Oh. And here I thought I was dealing with only one type of "the usual suspects".
runic ermine
"black mercenaries"
Oh. And here I thought I was dealing with only one type of "...
What's that?
raw zealot
Hello? yes, yes, the Military-Industrial Complex of the USSR.
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
runic ermine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwhCl8VdYh0
Ro
autumn sorrel
"black mercenaries"
Oh. And here I thought I was dealing with only one type of "...
The sheer logistical effort to hire Black Mercenary just to fight in Chechnya would make the entire scenario extremely funny
junior trench
The sheer logistical effort to hire Black Mercenary just to fight in Chechnya wo...
It's also just a common shibboleth for "the west (Americans, racist, derogatory)"
narrow rover
On the topic of Russians
Can't believe the Soviets really tried to build a 450m tall skyscraper dedicated to Stalin lmfao
Construction started but the Germans invaded, and after that Stalin died
So sadly this glorious thing wasn't built
junior trench
Looks like the start to a Frostpunk generator at first
Then it just turns into totalitarian megastructure number 573
autumn sorrel
Leave it to Atheist Communism to reinvent religion but this time with bigger stature.
narrow rover
Meanwhile on the other side of the Urals:
Proposed German superliner... 1000 feet long, 80k+ tons, 35 ish knots, 5 shafts
If there was no WW2, maybe we would have seen the "Yamato"s of ocean liner design actually built
The only superliner we did get was the SS United States (rip)
narrow rover
Also: today, Nagasaki got blown up. For some reason it gets nowhere near the attention that Hiroshima gets...
Also: Soviet Union declares war on Japan
spring briar
Meanwhile on the other side of the Urals:
Ah yes
Viktoria
narrow rover
A victory that never came
tacit sage
How have I never heard of this story before LOL. Literally tried to make the Tower of Babel 2: Electric Boogaloo.
tribal mortar
runic ermine
Rip
cinder escarp
They did quite a lot of work on it!
narrow rover
Part of me wishes they actually built it
cinder escarp
Foundations completed, metro station completed, substantial chunk of the frame erected
Of course, all the steelwork was then salvaged for the war
narrow rover
Germany couldn't have invaded at a worse time smh
ornate wind
Is that an angled flight deck on essex finally?
supple sandal
Looks like the start to a Frostpunk generator at first
so like the same thing?
autumn sorrel
so like the same thing?
I mean, have you ever been to a Construction site during foundation pouring process?
supple sandal
fair enuff
eternal veldt
Is that an angled flight deck on essex finally?
No.
Not even SCB-27A with the modified island and hurricane bow was installed, much less SCB-125.
tacit sage
I'm not super knowledgeable about the Independence Class Light Carriers, can someone explain why Belleau Wood is a French ship in this event?
grave ravine
I'm not super knowledgeable about the Independence Class Light Carriers, can som...
The French got the ship postwar
tacit sage
Ah ok
tacit sage
Not even SCB-27A with the modified island and hurricane bow was installed, much...
This game unfortunately stopped caring about historical references years ago.
tacit sage
I have a feeling they might reference her WoWs version in her retrofit kit.
Beyond that, there’s a clear lack of any sort of references to her actual retrofits in her retrofit art
twilit geyser
The retrofit has some truth to it, albeit little.
mental tapir
Yeah I really think Manjuu just phoned it in with Essex's retrofit now
mental tapir
Ah ok
Further elaboration:
It remains to be seen if HMS Colossus will remain as Colossus or if she will debut as Arromanches
Strange that the CVL that served with the French longer debuted as an Eagle Union ship while the CVL that joined later ended up being an Iris one
what is Manjuu cooking
tacit sage
Yeah I really think Manjuu just phoned it in with Essex's retrofit now
Manjuu phoning in ship designs? Never happened ever…
mental tapir
hearty walrus
https://tenor.com/view/plastic-man-real-real-powder-powder-that-makes-you-say-re...
real
subtle prawn
autumn sorrel
I don’t know which is worse, Russian propaganda or the fact they too lazy to use actual historical footage
long cipher
I don’t know which is worse, Russian propaganda or the fact they too lazy to use...
Да я тоже в ахуе что он скидывает
autumn sorrel
On second thought, it is Russian
spice idol
И что во первых, во вторых и 3 скажу
spice idol
I don’t know which is worse, Russian propaganda or the fact they too lazy to use...
- I don't give a shit about your opinion, 2) you Westerners only have 1 Russian propaganda or Russia is the aggressor, but that's also history, you only want to argue and talk all sorts of crap, and 3) I don't like to argue, but if I have to fight, I'll gladly arrange 2 Vietnam.
sinful zenith
dont feed the russian troll he will get tired eventually
mental tapir
Block and move on 
narrow rover
Many trolls
supple sandal
Quick question
How much did the US military spend on giving weapons system backronym
runic ermine
tacit sage
dont feed the russian troll he will get tired eventually
I don’t know, if there’s one thing I’m good at, it’s willing to commit to the bit. If I were to annoy someone like that, he’d leave in frustration before I’d get bored.
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
desert agate
<@&472236072743600148>
mystic schooner
Out of Curiosity. What is there to know about the Marco Polo? I only found Info on a Armored Cruiser
remote flame
In 1935, Italy made a battleship design proposal for the Soviet Navy based on the Vittorio/Littorio-class that would be armed with 3 of these https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/wiki/Triple_406mm_(Model_1940_Prototype)
Research ships and weapons are based off their equivalents in World of Warships, and don't exist IRL
chilly osprey
1935/36
Not 1939
The design - known as UP.41 - was one of a series of designs Ansaldo sold to the USSR in 1936.
UP.41 in particular was a 42,000-ton 406mm fast battleship design, adapted (to what Ansaldo thought were Russian preferences) from the early stages of an RM study for a '41,000-ton' battleship started in 1934-35. They would continue to work on the design long past the point the Ansaldo derivative (UP.41) was sold to the USSR, until the design was dropped for good in the summer of 1941.
'Marco Polo' is from World of Warships, and is meant to be a 'what-if' of 'what if the Italians built the design for themselves'.
The name itself being chosen for such a ship had it been built is extraordinarily unlikely.
twilit geyser
https://vxtwitter.com/jedimaster320/status/1955195966098903378
Maybe they made a mistake?
EN only shows the right. JP has both like in SCB-27.
If it was on purpose and this is some sort of mash up between her post-1944 refit and SCB-27 then that's funky.
autumn sorrel
Prince of Wales in Japan...
It's weird how history goes
Tbf, it is not the same as Kaga in Pearl
narrow rover
I swear the admirals have a sense of humor
autumn sorrel
I swear the admirals have a sense of humor
I mean, it is port call. US Navy sometimes have port call to Vietnam where the Commander or officers on ship were Vietnamese American
subtle prawn
mental tapir
Tbf, it is not the same as Kaga in Pearl <:EssexWheeze:1113921620277461033>
Or USS Midway at Yokosuka back when she was in service
runic ermine
Are there any blacklisted topics?
humble jewel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXaCIy3QtxA
Guess who's back
runic ermine
Who
supple sandal
anyone have any idea what plane is thos
autumn sorrel
anyone have any idea what plane is thos
MiG-23
That or MiG-27
The nose shape is not clear enough for me to make a definitive conclusion
spice idol
All History movie by Alexander Kolchak
https://youtu.be/ULk3pKt2spQ?si=DtLFmpiduNfhWJgI
long cipher
All History movie by Alexander Kolchak
https://youtu.be/ULk3pKt2spQ?si=DtLFmpid...
ебать ты стрёмный типчик
я конечно всё понимаю но блядь это сервер по гача игре
autumn sorrel
Game is World in Conflict
I mean, in that case then MiG-27, it the ground attack variant
supple sandal
It was the second soviet mission
That cutscene have the bridge I just captured bombed
The player: soviet
The plane: soviet
The loading screen have a su-27
autumn sorrel
It was the second soviet mission
Wait what?
The second mission in World in Conflict: Soviet Assault, titled "Harvest", tasks players with securing a series of islands in Puget Sound, specifically Sandfish Island. The Soviets are attempting to capture these islands to use their anti-ship missile batteries against a Chinese invasion fleet approaching Seattle. The primary objective is to capture the islands and their missile batteries before the Chinese arrive.
AI is being dumb as usual
autumn sorrel
The loading screen have a su-27
I mean, Su-27 was a heavy air superiority fighter at the time, the ground attack component of VVS will most likely be either MiG-27 or SU-24
supple sandal
I wonder why the dev didn't use the correct enemy plane
autumn sorrel
Not that Su-27 cannot do ground attack but the Soviet targeting pod tech at the time was exclusively for Su-24
MiG-27 at least have targeting camera at the nose
supple sandal
No I mean use American plane
autumn sorrel
I wonder why the dev didn't use the correct enemy plane
Well, it is possible that due to majority of US best equipment are in Europe and they only expect to fight US National Guard, it is logical to keep the more capable Su-24 in Europe theater and send MiG-27 instead
autumn sorrel
No I mean use American plane
Yeah, it certainly isn't F-111, airframe too small
autumn sorrel
The US invasion was doom from the start, at best it is only a distraction to force US to redeploy force back home instead of Europe. Even if PLA managed to land, Seatle alone cannot sustain a large invasion force and not to mention the Pacific fleet still active from Pearl
autumn sorrel
In game model
It is a MiG-27
autumn sorrel
I mean, US model should be F-16
supple sandal
Or f-15
autumn sorrel
Or F-15
supple sandal
Ay
autumn sorrel
Probably error with the code, wrong name tag, like strike_plane_us but it was incorrect as strike_plane_ussr
It is normal in game code back in the day
autumn sorrel
But NATO get the Tornado
I mean, other than Vulcan, NATO don't have much of a strategic bomber force
supple sandal
Fair
spice idol
я конечно всё понимаю но блядь это сервер по гача игре
История должна быть историей и историю не нужно относить к чему то
long cipher
да но то что ты так активно скидываешь...
spice idol
Как будто Колчак к флоту не относился или ты что то имеешь против??
desert agate
Server rules explicitly prohibit discussion in languages other than English
And if you’re going to spout random bullshit in an attempt to avoid being called out because you think no one can ready what you’re saying, that isn’t how this works
narrow rover
English do you speak it
gaunt owl
Today i learnt that Belleau Wood was once borrowed by the French navy and turned into Bois Belleau
mental tapir
Named after the Battle of Belleau Wood, too
autumn sorrel
Named after the Battle of Belleau Wood, too
Pretty sure Crayon Eaters gonna love her and use her as pin up
subtle heron
anyone have any idea what plane is thos
It's a mig 23
spring briar
Today i learnt that Belleau Wood was once borrowed by the French navy and turned...
We bought her from the Americans
gaunt owl
We bought her from the Americans
Didnt you return her after the 1st Indochina war?
I should've used the word "Loan" earlier
autumn sorrel
We bought her from the Americans
Richie 
, anything exciting from the tank museum?
spring briar
Richie <:Glowow:611004137210904579> , anything exciting from the tank museum?
Yeah
It was amazing
Me and the AMX-50
narrow rover
The dank museum
autumn sorrel
Me and the AMX-50
Damn, that's some big ass turret right there
autumn sorrel
Me and the AMX-50
Oh, I now see how tall the ARL side track are, did they just copy paste B1 track and suspension on ARL?
Nvm, they did
spring briar
They did
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
zealous vine
Does anyone have info on these?
vivid comet
Quick question, who in AL is the most "recent" in terms of when they were actually launched?
mental tapir
You're looking for "launched" and "commissioned"
I believe it's currently HMS Albion, launched May 1947, commissioned May 1954
vivid comet
Interesting, I thought we had someone a little further into the 50's
mental tapir
De Zeven was launched later (Aug 1950) but commissioned earlier (Nov 1953)
runic ermine
What plane is this
vivid comet
Thanks Icy 
mental tapir
I could be wrong though; don't just take my word for it
runic ermine
De Zeven was launched later (Aug 1950) but commissioned earlier (Nov 1953)
Wasn't Chapevev in 1955?
mental tapir
This Chapayev?
mental tapir
I think they meant "commissioned" instead of "completed"
Or maybe Soviet ship construction was just different, idk 
runic ermine
Or maybe Soviet ship construction was just different, idk <:WarShrug:92739178832...
Stalin wanted 15 Battleships btw
mental tapir
Too bad he kicked the bucket and his successor immediately cancelled them; it would have been a wonderful waste of Soviet resources
runic ermine
Too bad he kicked the bucket and his successor immediately cancelled them; it wo...
He wanted to keep one after the war
Soyuz I think
supple sandal
What plane is this
Is this Azur Lane
runic ermine
Is this Azur Lane
Reverse 1999 at the end of Chapter 5
supple sandal
👍
supple sandal
I thought this is 1999
runic ermine
I thought this is 1999
Time travel and alt history is the name of the game
supple sandal
Fucking brits
supple sandal
No please don't
narrow rover
Russian alt history novels love a very specific scenario in which they change the outcome of the Russo Japanese war in a very specific way which butterflies into the USSR overrunning Europe in WW2
Oh, also don't forget to somehow brutally kill Britain
supple sandal
All of them novels?
runic ermine
Russian alt history novels love a very specific scenario in which they change th...
I mean... Japan has a lot of alt history about the War in the Pacific
Kancolle fairly infamously
narrow rover
Most of them are borderline unreadable
But at least the Russian ones are good sources of Russo Japanese war alt his
The realistic ones are decent
runic ermine
The realistic ones are decent
Like any alt history stuff
Hence why Kaiser reich is so popular
narrow rover
I wouldn't say Kaiserreich is "realistic"
Funnily enough the "Russia draws with Japan, Korea split down the 38th parallel" scenario starts with Jacob Schiff (banker that gave Japan a huge loan) slipping on a banana peel and dying
X
Someone found IJN Hiei's launch
Just... sitting there in Tokyo
How the fuck did anyone not realize this long
grave ravine
How was she launched before completion?
Ships are typically not complete when launched, they typically aren't fitted with the superstructure or gun turrets (SLC is unusual in that she does have her turrets already) https://youtu.be/6X4RdaldHzI?si=EZotnHRWsur6IhfD
narrow rover
There are ships that are launched fully complete but
Probably more common these days than it was back then
chilly osprey
Yes, that's something that has become very common since the 1980s
It comes down to modern construction methods and how much fitting out work can be more easily done while hull modules are in assembly, versus older construction methods.
echo onyx
buying more IJN books
autumn sorrel
@exotic timber we have a spammer
exotic timber
<@98333273066860544> we have a spammer
It's just leftovers, thanks for letting me know