history

[manic latch]

Is that a furry

Marines have fallen

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1825901713812865454
https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1825901715880632541

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD 1908, 500,000 Aussies turned out to welcome the arrival of the Great White Fleet to Sydney. The reception was so warm that hundreds of sailors went on unauthorized absence. USS Kansas stayed extra days to round up stragglers, offering a $10 bounty on every sailor returned.

Twitter · Aug 20, 2024, 2:24 PM

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

The lure of Sydney has continued. In 1970, a sailor who was late returning from liberty pleaded with an Australian boat captain to take him out to the USS Shangri-La as the carrier was sailing out of Sydney. The sailor's shipmates threw him a line and managed to haul him aboard.

Twitter · Aug 20, 2024, 2:24 PM

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/ctsGBTdq8v4

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9aXR4Mkik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlSZpUe1MbI

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1826296619064828050

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1958, USS Enterprise (CV-6) made her final voyage as she moved from the Brooklyn Navy Yard to the scrapper in New Jersey. FADM William Halsey led an effort to preserve the Big E as a museum but the campaign was unable to raise enough funds to save the carrier.

Twitter · Aug 21, 2024, 4:33 PM

[frozen kestrel]

So, dumb question, but how thick do ya'll think the gun barrels are? The guns in question are the BL 15-inch Mk I. Bore diameter's 381mm, so that should help make figuring out the barrel thickness a bit easier
(Ship in the photo is HMS Queen Elizabeth during the Gallipoli campaign in 1915)

[round elbow]

I would guess 5 to 5.5 inches for the barrel thickness (On each side).

[frozen kestrel]

Anyone happen to know where I can find good scans of Hood's blueprints? I'm trying to get a good look at her turret schematics, since they were unique to her specifically.

[subtle prawn]

The British archives should have stuff like that, no?

[frozen kestrel]

As far as I'm aware, yes. But I haven't found jack-shit through my scouring

And trying to make this model is driving me towards a nervous breakdown

[twilit geyser]

This helpful?

[hot echo]

@thorny patio

they mostly had only DDs

[thorny patio]

Bonjour

[hot echo]

And Torpedo ships

They had only 1 Battleship which was ass

[thorny patio]

Well that's not the worst. At least they HAD offensive ships

[hot echo]

Yh

But the Naval Battles werent great on the Civil War

They had like

3 or 4 cruisers

3 submarines

[thorny patio]

Wonder if Franco ever invested any in the Navy

[hot echo]

n thats pretty much it

[thorny patio]

Also SUBMARINES U SAY?

ooooh

[hot echo]

Franco had more Cruisers and pretty much the same amount of DDs

only 1 submarine

and also only 1 Battleship which was older than the republican's one

The reoublican's BB got sabotaged by the national army and sunk in 1937 though

republican's*

[thorny patio]

Lol, that does sound like a neat event to be had. Especially given Germany and Italys intervention in the Spanish Civil war

[hot echo]

Italy intervention was mostly infantry aid

and Germany's was mostly aircraft

[thorny patio]

Yes, but AL doesn't have to follow history 1:1

[hot echo]

Most famous being the Cóndor Legion which bombed the Basque city of Gernika

[thorny patio]

Just the broad strokes

[hot echo]

yh

They didnt send any ships as far as I remember

The Spanish navy only started getting bigger after much later

[thorny patio]

Italy I believe sent the most out of the two, given they were closer and Mussolinis wanton admiration for Franco

[hot echo]

With the deals of the Americans

Italy did bring most yeah

But in exchange asked for the Balearic islands

lol

which ofc was denied

[thorny patio]

I know that only because people say this ended up hurting the Italian war effort later

[hot echo]

yh

[thorny patio]

Like... They couldn't really afford to throw as much as they did at spain

[hot echo]

Yh they were already cooked after getting bullied in Ethiopia pretty much

They just spent a lot in Spain in hopes that Franco would gift the Balearic Islands after

[thorny patio]

Speaking of Mussolinis government... We treat him as if he and [name redacted] had the same ideals... When in reality they were really allies mostly out of... Well a very loose idea of similar ideology.

[hot echo]

Nah he didnt have the same ideals

neither did Franco

Franco wasnt a fascist

He was a National-Catholic

Quite close to the third position but failing to get in

[thorny patio]

Well Franco was never going to be an axis partner because he knew Spain was in no position to fight... That and France was RIGHT THERE and so was Gibraltar...

[hot echo]

yh

Spain had literally nothing to fight for either

since the Axis already tried to ask them for the Islands

and only offered Gibraltar for the war effort if they joined

[thorny patio]

Given the UKs navy that would have been impossible to keep

Also Portugal

Shit I forgot about Portugal

[hot echo]

Portugal supported Franco in the civil war

[thorny patio]

The treaty of Windsor is STILL on the books

[hot echo]

and they were more closely aligned to the Axis than the UK

cuz of Salazar

[thorny patio]

Really?

Oh him

[hot echo]

yh

Salazar was Portugal's prime minister since 1932

u til the 70s

until*

[thorny patio]

Ah that explains... A lot...

Like ALOT

[hot echo]

Portugal sent aid to Franco

together with men

Franco side was supported by the Axis and Portugal

While the republican side was supported by the USSR, Mexico and the international brigades

[thorny patio]

Mexico was a relevant backer?

[hot echo]

which were communists across the world wanting to fight for the spanish cause

Mexico was a huge support

[thorny patio]

Mexico had COMMIES???

[hot echo]

They sent the most guns

The international brigades werent just mexicnas

mexicans*

[thorny patio]

viva la revolution indeed

[hot echo]

They were communists across every nation

[thorny patio]

Well yeah but I just don't normally associate Mexico with full blown communists

More with socialists

[hot echo]

In fact there is this famous British communist that joined and wrote a book about his POV in the civil war

[thorny patio]

Yes

I know who that is

Tho I don't think he'd call himself a communist afterwards

[hot echo]

there is also another british guy who sided with Franco and actually met him in the Civil War

He called himself a socialist

[thorny patio]

Orwell got a bullet in the throat for his troubles

[hot echo]

yes

[thorny patio]

That's not communism tho.

Conflating the two gets very contentious

[hot echo]

Yeah it isnt communism

But the International Brigades were a communist movement

He joined it even though he called hinself a socialist

himself*

also Mexico has a lot of history with the revolutionary ideals

[thorny patio]

Very few nations at all really prescribe communism anymore.

[hot echo]

well and communism in general

for example Trotsky

He escaped the USSR and hid on Mexico

Where he died to an icepick

[thorny patio]

He was exiled

I.e forcibly kicked out by yah boi stalin

[hot echo]

True

Mb

He got murdered by a Spanish communist

sent by Stalin

[thorny patio]

Also before Mexico he actually was in France

[hot echo]

yh

[thorny patio]

But Trotsky being Trotsky, he couldn't keep his yap shut, and the USSR basically hated any nation that harbored him because he continued to talk about how much Stalin sucked

[hot echo]

mhm

[thorny patio]

So France evicted him after they caught him trying to incite rebellion, the US actually offered him to visit to talk about the inner workings of the USSR... But decided NOT to let a firebrand communist have a speaking chance in front of millions of it's citizens.

Also they denied him because, like France, they didn't want him to muck up their relations with the USSR

Honestly, Trotsky getting a pick to the head saved everyone from a big game of hot-potato

[hot echo]

lmso

lmao*

[thorny patio]

AM I WRONG? XD

the fucker was legit being tossed around like a microwaved Idaho brand potato and Stalin finally decided to put him back in the fridge

[hot echo]

nah i dont think ur wrong

i just find ur comment funny

its such an interesting way to put it haha

[autumn sorrel]

Wow, finally someone who see Trotsky for an asshole who he really is

But how did you two manage to reach Trotskism from speaking about Spanish boat?

[hot echo]

Because we were speaking about the spanish civil war navy

and at the end of the day all histories are connected thru one way or another

[autumn sorrel]

True but Spanish Civil War Naval aspect is kinda fucking hilarious when you consider how much fucked up the Republican Navy was

[desert agate]

locan man today learns about the Mexican revolution

not that the Mexican revolution was necessarily marxist

more just a general social-democratic revolution

it also makes sense that the country that had just recently had a major pro-democracy revolution would also support the democratic side of the Spanish civil war

[craggy girder]

No Napoleonic History😔

[spring briar]

[craggy girder]

There will never be Napoleonic here😔

[spring briar]

Not true

[visual rover]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_U-boats

[desert agate]

we've had napoleonic era discussions here

it's just been a while since all the good people are gone

very few active channel members capable of intelligent discussion anymore

[craggy girder]

I see.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFdNOT9ObCs

[frozen kestrel]

Holy shit, yes. Thank you so much

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1826645665289830585

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1945, ADM William Halsey ordered over 1,000 carrier-based aircraft to perform a flyby so that the immense Allied naval airpower in the Pacific could be photographed for Operation Tintype. His surface fleet had been photographed days earlier during Operation Snapshot.

Twitter · Aug 22, 2024, 3:40 PM

[frozen kestrel]

Tried five inch barrel thickness, and this was the result

[spring briar]

it's

not twisting

[frozen kestrel]

That's gonna be the most difficult part

Since, I gotta figure out how the fuck I'm gonna make it twist

[spring briar]

there's an easy function for that

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1826408269352403306

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

'Skipper' used as an informal name for the commander of a ship or boat dates to the late 14th century and comes from the Middle Dutch 'schipper' meaning 'shipmaster.' By the 1830s the title was being given to the captains of sports teams.
#WordOfTheDay

Twitter · Aug 21, 2024, 11:57 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ-A5s6XHto

[torn dome]

what's the last carrier that was made either from blueprint or built by Japan?

[heavy bay]

DDH-184 Kaga

[thorny patio]

Hmmm so if I'm reading this right, Francoist Spain, and Franco himself, planned for building 4 "fast battleships" with the help of Italy, using the Littorio as a base of their design.

From Wikipedia:

In late 1939, a Spanish mission to Italy received assurances of technical support for the construction of ships of the class in Spanish yards, and a slipway of sufficient size to construct two ships at a time was built at Ferrol. However, Italy's entry into the Second World War in 1940, combined with the limited resources of Spain, led to the cancellation of the project.[6]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1826738341796258083

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1945, Admiral William Halsey hosted several senior U.S. and Royal Navy officers aboard USS Missouri to toast the surrender of Japan and the end of WWII.

Twitter · Aug 22, 2024, 9:48 PM

[desert agate]

as in during WW2 or in the modern era?

because the last carriers Japan built in WW2 were the Unryu class, which was an ordered class of 16 carriers, of which 3 were completed and most of the rest were either laid down or waiting for the slipways to clear so they could be laid down

They were more or less a repeat of the Hiryuu class with a modified powerplant and dimensions and intended to be cheaper and faster to build

in the modern era it would be the JMSDFs Helicopter carrying destroyer Kaga which is currently undergoing modification for F-35b operations

[unreal river]

Takao is ready (WWII Japanese saber)

[desert agate]

i sure hope the previous owner of that sabre had positive opinions on the Geneva Convention and the treatment of civilians in combat and POWs in captivity

[unreal river]

It’s a parade saber, so it probably didn’t do too much

[visual rover]

https://uboat.net/fates/sub-sunk.htm

German U-Boats sunk by Allied Submarines

[frozen kestrel]

Thank fucking god British naval guns have a consistent twist rate

[spring briar]

Why did you do it in sections

[frozen kestrel]

Because each section is one caliber long. The bore for the gun is 42 calibers long, with a twist rate of one complete twist in thirty calibers. Ergo, this'll help me model to twist rate in the rifling

[spring briar]

just
make one section
with a rotation of 42/30*360° lol

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1827020641591046177

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ0Ich-JtYM

[frozen kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/reload-cat-loading-buffering-kitty-gif-17184357

[supple sandal]

Did this guy just use a screenshot of a video game

[rapid junco]

Just like i have been soo much AI thumbnails

[supple sandal]

That shit look like command and conquer 2

[eternal veldt]

If you go strictly by blueprint only and not "constructed" explicitly, the G18 small carrier project is most likely the last.

[craggy girder]

What

[supple sandal]

What do you mean by what

[runic ermine]

https://youtube.com/shorts/Pt37GCnbkdc?si=SwHPu070WhivhyBZ

[autumn sorrel]

Same engine

[supple sandal]

Okay what game

[autumn sorrel]

Many game

Look like Blitzkrieg

[runic ermine]

I'm happy I was right

[visual rover]

https://x.com/warshipcam/status/1827190075093929998?s=61

WarshipCam (@WarshipCam) on X

Royal Netherlands Navy De Zeven Provincien-class frigate HNLMS Tromp (F803) northbound leaving the Pedro Miguel Locks on the Panama Canal - August 23, 2024 #hnlmstromp #f803

SRC: webcam

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 3:43 AM

The “Air-Defence and Command Frigate: HNLMS Tromp F-803” in Panama Canal sail to Curaçao (Curaçao is a caribbean island country in the Kingdom of the Netherlands)

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHcbxLyLCM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz0wBYQG6-A

[zealous gull]

Spotted this in my city, looks military but wtf is that design

[twilit geyser]

Looks to be USS Miguel Keith

Her hull is based on an oil tanker turned mobile base, so yeah, it defo looks weird.

[zealous gull]

Ooh right, I checked marinetraffic just now too

I wonder what roll stability is like for that thing, both center of buoyancy and gravity probably in thin air

[runic ermine]

It looks as if it was incompleted if you know what I mean

[twilit geyser]

Lmao

[zealous gull]

See thru ship

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1827527640829374567

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1827415650647638242

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

It's #NationalWaffleDay! In 1920, a U.S Marine defeated a U.S Army soldier and earned the title "Champion Waffle Eater in the World" by consuming 26 of the corrugated pastries in 30 minutes. He warmed up for the match by having a porterhouse steak, fries, doughnuts, and coffee.

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 6:40 PM

[desert agate]

her role is to basically act as a mobile base able to sit off shore and keep an expeditionary force supplied, her large flight deck allows her to take on and release large amounts of supplies by helicopter

very much a logistical gamechanger

[zealous gull]

Oh

Like a slightly bigger LHD huh

Odd place for a US ship to end up though

[zealous gull]

Wait youre the mwo I talked to before

Hows that been going for ya

[desert agate]

an LHDs role is to deploy forces and sustain a beach-head

this ships role is to sustain a force after it has moved past the beach head

[desert agate]

havent joined yet, decided to delay

[zealous gull]

Smart move.

[grave ravine]

@zealous gull the ESBs arent really for large scale conventional operations, they are instead meant to act as mother ships to support SOCOM and other lower intensity power projection type tasks in permissive environments https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/03/ussocom-comments-on-the-navys-expeditionary-sea-bases-esb/

[zealous gull]

I'm just amazed at the scale of the US Navy that they can create a whole new class of ship for a purpose that would seem too niche for any other navy in the world

[spring briar]

the LSMR's?

[grave ravine]

I feel like Nico probably meant the ESBs

[spring briar]

oh I missed the article above that you posted

lol

[desert agate]

https://x.com/TomcatJunkie/status/1827714946848997750

TomcatJunkie (@TomcatJunkie) on X

I just now noticed this with an E-2 launch. Now I’m questioning everything I thought I knew. Screenshot from some RIMPAC 24 footage.

Twitter · Aug 25, 2024, 2:29 PM

https://fxtwitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1827706449461379521

[runic ermine]

At least the crew was saved

[autumn sorrel]

Rough sea?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj_mSYh-ocI

[runic ermine]

80 years ago today Paris was liberated
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_of_Paris

[zealous gull]

Surely around Johor would be some of the most charted waters in the world

Cant imagine a navy grounding themselves there

Shipping container floating while mostly submerged?

[junior trench]

Occam's razor

The navies in that area just aren't actually very good

[desert agate]

my first presumption would be poor navigation

[craggy girder]

What

[supple sandal]

Dude

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxhwHgemeBs

[runic ermine]

This is the president of El Savador posting little dark age edits of his military
https://x.com/nayibbukele/status/1827820401637957968?t=NCJA6d_VKly2hYySlAancA&s=19

Nayib Bukele (@nayibbukele) on X

🇸🇻

Twitter · Aug 25, 2024, 9:28 PM

[visual rover]

https://youtu.be/lkdd_s7eAYk?si=TebK9B9szaDvEl_L

[loud comet]

Is dev reason put Halford in the PR ship category even though she was an existing Fletcher-class ship because of her catapult?
Later, her catapult was removed and converted back to a standard Fletcher layout?

[grave ravine]

I mean its most likely just because its in WoWS, and the PR ships are a deal with Wargaming

cuz I mean Halford not only was built with the catapult, but actually saw combat with it before they decided to remove it

[maiden citrus]

hilariously, it's due to the plane

[chilly flower]

Could you please cite a source for that? I haven't seen any explicit indication that Halford was operating in the warzone until December of 1943, when the catapult and equipment had been removed in October, so I'm somewhat skeptical

[kindred acorn]

Was just casually on another wiki dive session and found the Bristol Belvedere

The hell is this design, it looks like a emanciated Chinook 💀

[mental tapir]

Phallicopter

[grave ravine]

Halford participated in the August 1943 Marcus Island raid and the October 1943 Wake Island raid, and received the respective battle stars, before returning to Mare Island to get the catapult removed

See NAVPERS 15790 for the battle stars

[craggy girder]

Ok

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/P3mTiZljR7w

[robust ridge]

Non political history facts

[remote monolith]

@desert agate so turns out Tolkien was in the same year and the same school as William Slim and did know him to some extent

one of his recovered letters said thus

Sat in a corner getting news of the Old Boys of my time – finding that one was a Boss at ICI and another commanding the Fourteenth Army, and that sort of thing.”

the letter dated from 1944, so around the time Slim was completely stuck in Burma I believe

[supple sandal]

Japan army and Japan navy did the same thing

They got nuked

Tbf they don't have anything to fly that high

[desert agate]

non political
a literal fucking SS officer
meeting with Hitler
sleeping with Hitlers sister in law

Bro you’ve created levels of delusion I never thought possible

Slim was very much an underrated commander

[junior trench]

it's worse, actually

check the collar tab in their pfp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_ranks_of_Nazi_Germany

[remote monolith]

SS Obersturmfuhrer

[junior trench]

so just like

[remote monolith]

lol, lmao even

[junior trench]

cool thing to know

Wehrmacht collar tabs are very simple bar and color rank markings

whenever you see any fancier shit it's SS

*unless it's general officer ranks

but none of those are white/silver on black

which is to say editing out the SS runes on the right side (as worn) patch doesn't hide things like people think it does

[ivory ridge]

bro left the server

lol

[desert agate]

gets called out for being a fascist
leaves immediately

[spring briar]

Self cleaning

[narrow rover]

What the toilet was that lol

Also damn, this guy has a whole Wikipedia account about him
Also lived until like age 96

How the fuck he survived the Soviets I don't know

[tight wolf]

he didnt leave he got banned

[desert agate]

lmao good ending

[alpine onyx]

[runic ermine]

Looks like I missed... something

[sullen canyon]

It's best you missed it then, since I can only hazard a guess

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mSVAZ6TvTE

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1828503614567969048

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1896, the Royal Navy bombarded Stone Town and sank the only ship in the Zanzibar Navy after Sultan Khalid bin Barghash rebelled against British rule. The Sultan surrendered 38 minutes after the conflict began, making the Anglo-Zanzibar War the shortest war in history.

Twitter · Aug 27, 2024, 6:43 PM

[runic ermine]

If you want the top 5:

1. Anglo-Zanzibar War (38 minutes)
2. Operation Democracy aka the invasion of Anjouan (7 hours)
3. Football war (4 days)
4. Six day war (6 days)
5. Russo-Georgian war (16 days)

[rapid junco]

Football war usually is referred as the 100 hour war

[runic ermine]

True

[narrow rover]

Probably the most stupid war of all time

The Zanzibar war was more like
Being grossly outmatched

[tribal mortar]

i had this random thought, why didn't submarines render battleships obsolete? they seem superior in every way, immune to planes, 3 dimensional movement, significantly harder to hit in general even when spotted

[runic ermine]

Submarines are not immune to planes

[tribal mortar]

i mean surely significantly less vulnerable than any type of battleship no?

[narrow rover]

I mean how are you gonna do AA work or escort a carrier with a submarine

BBs honestly have a use until ships with ASMs turn up in the 50s

[tribal mortar]

i see, i was thinking more like, just have a fleet of only submarines so then you don't care about anything else but since then i realised they are vulnerable to guided torpedos from planes, i'm not knowledgeable at this stuff just mildly interested lol

so you still need a full party of different classes to cover for each other's limitations it seems kinda like an mmo

[runic ermine]

https://youtube.com/shorts/nqiWUUfvAdc?si=1IgJU6ZEbps3dmgP

[autumn sorrel]

You need big gun from battleship to do shore bombardment and WW2 era sub have difficulty reload torp when underwater, you missed those torp salvo then good luck staying underwater for half a day while trying your best to stay away from those pesky DD with their depth charge.

[grave ravine]

What do you think is the role of a battleship?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGYnXInkdmk

[tribal mortar]

naval warfare, control of territories, supply routes idk didn't realy consider shore bombardments to be as important

[grave ravine]

Ultimately those concepts of controlling territories and supply routes and whatnot link back to a single idea, the idea of sea control

The job of the battleship was to be the ultimate arbiter of that, the ship that would decide the decisive battles to obtain sea control, the battleship's job was to gain control of the seas

And that's the problem, a submarine can't exert sea control, it can't shield convoys, cover invasion fleets, or back up blockades

At best submarines can deny the enemy usage of an area, but they cannot ensure your own ability to operate, and they usually can't even do that

You need battleships (and later aircraft carriers) to properly exert control of the seas

[twilit geyser]

It is important to note that the role of submarines were more so akin to hunt ships rather than fight or 'brawl' with enemy warships, unlike battleships, even until now.

e.g why submarines were fielded in large numbers in WW2 to sink convoys and disrupt supply routes and battleships were not as often dispatched for that purpose.

You can't really make something 'obsolete' whose role is vastly different from the role you are performing.

[tribal mortar]

I get it now, thanks for your inputs, i knew i came to the right people

[thorny patio]

https://youtu.be/dzB3OXNNMak?si=6-7yMhPxmD8_GieV

Beautiful... Absolutely outstanding

[chilly osprey]

It also really has to be said that submarines of the WWI-WWII era were incredibly 'bad'.

They were not true submarines in the modern sense, but rather more like submersible torpedo boats that had only a limited ability to operate underwater.

[runic ermine]

And that they weren't exactly deployed to such a scale prior to ww1

[chilly osprey]

They were relatively cheap assets that could used in attritional warfare to wear down an enemy over time, but in practice were very bad at actually stalking and sinking warships.

Even to this day their ability to do so is relatively limited, and the best defense against submarines remains to just 'go fast'

Only nuclear powered submarines are able to keep up with surface ships running at higher speeds (over 20 knots) for any significant period of time, and they cannot do so while remaining quiet.

[wintry moat]

Subs are the spiders of the ship world

[eternal veldt]

Adding to this, submarines of the World War II era operate 8 knots underwater, mind, and as Phoenix said, frequently needed to be surfaced most of the time, where they only operate around ~20 knots.

And war crimes notwithstanding, allied submarines of the Pacific war played a very significant role in destroying the Japanese war economy alongside aircraft, arguably even more damaging to the war effort of Japan as a whole compared to a battleship.

[eternal veldt]

As for this, this is exactly what the Moustache man thought after the embarrassment that is the Battle of the Barents Sea

He flew into a fury, claimed that the surface fleet is utterly worthless, and most resources were devoted towards submarine construction

The result? A whopping 70% attrition rate amongst Uboat crew, because the Allies soon perfected the convoy system and just started deploying corvettes and frigates en masse, specialized in dealing with underwater threats.

If you thought fletchers were numerous, don't look at how many flower-class corvettes were built

[mental tapir]

Kinda wack that the Fairey Barracuda got to be BiS parallel TB when the TBF Avenger was far better and more reliable IRL

But I suppose we can't let the Americans hog all the good Allied aircraft

[eternal veldt]

Mark 13

[mental tapir]

Troof

Though iirc Enterprise's Avengers finishing Hiei off was before the torps were fixed, no?

[eternal veldt]

It undid the damage control effort of Hiei's crew on the rudder

the ship was already flooding from progressive flooding at that point, Yukikaze just finished her off after taking off her crew

as I said before, Yukikaze is an underappreciated US weapon against Japan

wheresoever she goes, the ship she''s charged with escorting always has a high chance of dying :^)

[mental tapir]

USN's strongest destroyer

By the same vein, was Halsey IJN's best admiral?

[junior trench]

Mogami was the USN's strongest CA

[eternal veldt]

I'd think Kimmel instead to some extent, at least Halsey didn't lose capital ships, as I recall?

[thorny patio]

Anyone know of the Sangamon Escort carriers?

Honestly, the USN had A SHIT-TON of escort carriers... Like holy jesus

And if I'm reading this correctly the Sangamons were able to refuel other ships due to their previous use as Oil tankers

[heavy bay]

Being able to refuel other ships isn’t unique to the Sangamon-class. They were better at it than most warships of similar size, I guess.

[autumn sorrel]

US Fleet Carrier can do the same thing

[thorny patio]

Ooooooooh

So what was their claim to fame if any?

[autumn sorrel]

Iirc, right before Halsey lead US fleet into the Typhoon, many Destroyer was in the process of refueling from the Fleet Carrier and because they weren’t able to be refuel that they become too bounce which leave them dangerously ill suited to navigate the rough sea.

Battleship can also be emergency fleet oilers for their escort group

[desert agate]

he did love sailing his destroyers into typhoons though

[thorny patio]

FULL FORWARD INTO THE ABYSS

[autumn sorrel]

Still funny that Halsey throw a temper tantrum and then sulking for nearly an hour when King asking him about why the hell he leave the landing force dangerously exposed bc of some crypto mistake that add unnecessary words but not immediately order his fleet to double back to fix his mistake

[narrow rover]

If someone told me general Renya Mutaguchi was a US spy I'd believe him
Man's singlehandedly started the 2nd Sino-Japanese war

Also starved almost 60000 of his own 90000 men to death

[autumn sorrel]

IJN greatest enemy: IJA

[autumn sorrel]

Oh, then there are IJN deliberately sabotage IJA supply run on Guadalcanal

[junior trench]

the only CVEs large enough to regularly operate dive bombers

[grave ravine]

A lot of ships can do that, for example Japanese battleships and cruisers could refuel destroyers

[grave ravine]

Mk 13 had a different set of problems from what Mk 14 had, and once fixed Mk 13 did actually stand head and shoulders above other period aerial torpedoes

[narrow rover]

If you ever wonder why they lost (aside from the USA being physically bigger)
They're essentially trying to do two empire building campaigns

[runic ermine]

Sums up the Guadalcanal campaign for Japan

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1829284334081323240

[runic ermine]

That face at the start was like something out of a nightmare

[junior jacinth]

https://youtu.be/g3XLRJ8E0ZM?si=pzsWegqOLbYGQ-dg

LoL

[remote monolith]

Slightly inclined ground

Seriously, Sarissa phalanxes are hell to deploy on uneven terrain and even more non-maneuverable than regular phalanx

[autumn sorrel]

People focus top much on the Phalanx as Alexander success and left out his excellent light infantry and calvary that work in tandem with Phalanx formation

[mental tapir]

Ahh yes, the world wonders

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5lbofA1xWs

[zenith plover]

anyone know more stuff about Napoleon Era then me?

[zenith plover]

i guess none

[heavy bay]

ah yes, the phalanx, famously developed in the famously flat and featureless plains of...Greece and Macedonia?

it's more difficult for heavy infantry formations to maneuver on rough terrain, but a Macedonian phalanx isn't going to become useless because the battlefield has some hills

[junior trench]

Flat ground/open field infantry tactics don't require flat country to develop

Especially if

Idk

The country is mountainous and rough with canalizing terrain that allows you to optimize for head on engagements in the most passable parts

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1829541578043773206

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1955, an Australian pilot cranked the propeller of an Auster Autocar J-5G training aircraft but was unable to get in the plane before it rolled down the runway and took off. The pilotless plane flew around Sydney for 3 hours before two RAN Sea Fury pilots shot it down.

Twitter · Aug 30, 2024, 3:27 PM

[mental tapir]

https://youtu.be/2Rj7B47F9Xs

Common Sea Fury W

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2024/08/30/italian-aircraft-carrier-f-35bs-reach-ioc

[runic ermine]

https://youtu.be/yBaQ-1P_WSQ?si=BogeKjikxfy_ciec

I love this guy

[analog anchor]

https://youtu.be/yWkYEHoLrcs?si=x16q1E6RxNOxEeC5

[grave ravine]

I also find all the talk of terrain and flanking being necessary to destroy sarissa phalanxes to be funny because we also just have examples of legions frontally infiltrating and destroying phalanxes on relatively level terrain, basically as close as you can get to the featureless plain conditions most people seem to want.

Furthermore poor terrain doesn't seem to have troubled Hellenistic armies all that much elsewhere

[analog anchor]

Aside from Johnston, there's also

Samuel B. Roberts
Hoel
Heerman

The destroyer from Task Unit Taffey-3 that fought like a battleship to buy time for the small escort carriers to get away from Japanese fleet

[grave ravine]

While terrain certainly could disorder a Phalanx, most armies would not have been able to capitalize on it, especially when facing a full Hellenistic army

In the end the Legions triumphed because Legionary and Socii heavy infantry were just better, and while Hellenistic armies as a whole were often larger the Legions often had similar, if not more heavy infantry

[analog anchor]

Aircraft throw everything they had at Japanese ship, in a desperate attempt to stop the Japanese from scoring a hit on the carriers, even if it wasn't meant to be use against war ships. Pilot threw everything they have at Japanese, be it Clipboard or even a Coke bottle, one pilot use his .38 revolver to try to hit the Japanese on the ship even.

Despite all the loss, America archive strategic victory.

Captain of sunk USS Johnston, Ernest E. Evans was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.

As Japanese Destroyer Yukikaze approaching USS Johnston crew as she sunk, the crew thought they'd be machine gunned, but instead, the crew of Yukikaze sailed past and Salute Johnston crew

[subtle prawn]

He got a Burke-class destroyer named after him recently

[autumn sorrel]

Roman also freshly coming of the 2nd Punic War with a large number of hardened veteran legionnaires, and the Macedon army was vary in its quality.

[analog anchor]

If Taffey 3 ships were added, Yostar, My soul is yours.

[grave ravine]

You can perhaps argue that about the Macedonian phalanx (more so for the 3rd Macedonian War than the 2nd), but the Seluecid phalanx was just coming off of a series of successful campaigns before it got smashed at Magnesia

[spring briar]

Oh a Thai person

Hiii

[grave ravine]

The legions were undoubtedly veteran forces, but its not like the Hellenistic kings were just sitting on their asses either

[autumn sorrel]

Wasn't Seleucid also field pseudo-legion that they copied the Roman way of war?

[spring briar]

@analog anchor Thonburi is adorable

[analog anchor]

[grave ravine]

Not at Magnesia, we have an account in Polybius of the Seleucids creating a force equipped in the Roman style (whether it was a direct copy of Rome or more the general trend of adopting Theurophoroi style units is unclear) but that happens after the loss at Magnesia, and the Seluecids fall apart without fighting another war against the Romans

[analog anchor]

If you interested, you can watch the whole battle here on this video

https://youtu.be/8DlFfBNjz8A?si=-ORQ5-SDuP-T8aYr

[grave ravine]

And even then the at the parade that these guys were shown off at they are only a small component of the Seluecid army, which is clearly still a standard Hellenistic force

[autumn sorrel]

I never notice how small the coastal defense ships are

[spring briar]

Yeah
But 7.9” guns nonetheless

[remote monolith]

arguably in a direct fight the legion system gets run over as seen in Cynoscephalae, Pydna and Magnesia, however in all of those instances the Romans were able to take advantage of tactical errors made by the Diadochi that removed their flanking supports

[autumn sorrel]

When you mentioned "Theurophoroi", are those the evolution of light hoplite formation? I know that use oval shield but sometime I see them got confused with Peltast

[autumn sorrel]

They are cute, like small BB

[remote monolith]

I forgot in what battle this is, but I believe the Diadochi cavalry managed to beat the roman left, and the roman right beaten back the Diadochi left, but while the Diadochi cavalary run off to chase retreating enemies and got removed from the fight, the Roman ones wheeled left and managed to strike the phalanx

[autumn sorrel]

Magnesia

[analog anchor]

I forgot to mention that, he's the first native American in Navy to receive Medal Of Honor

[remote monolith]

ah ok thank you

[grave ravine]

Theurophoroi and Thorakai (the difference seems to be the level of armor they had) were Greek/Hellenistic La Tene equipped soldiers (oval shield, sword or spear, javelins) that seem to have become popular after the barbarian invasions in 279 and Roman successes in the region

[autumn sorrel]

Oh, they use Kaga guns

[grave ravine]

They were generally somewhat more lightly equipped than Roman forces, but they could still be said to be "equipped in the roman style"

[spring briar]

Yes

Shell of Lamotte Picquet stuck in Thonburi’s side

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, they weren't using chainmail armor? I thought with how the Seleucid using the Galatian as well that they would at least copy the chainmail armor?

[autumn sorrel]

Damn, that's a close call

[remote monolith]

ah so these are the basis for thorax spearmen/swordsmen and thureos spears

[grave ravine]

where exactly were the romans getting run over at Pydna?

[spring briar]

Yeah but Thonburi’s belt got penned 6 times + a number of other hits so rip

[grave ravine]

but also arguing it was tactical errors that caused the Romans to win these battles frankly seems silly in the face of repeated Roman successes, even at Magnesia the Romans were able to reform in good order in the face of the Seluecid cavalry attack

[remote monolith]

the center of the Roman formation had little success actually driving the phalanx back until the Macedonians got too heated, moved far quicker than they should have an encountered uneven grounds where the Romans could strike back at the loosened formation. I would argue that this proves in a straight slugging match the phalanx can easily run over the Legionary system, but on the other hand the Legions are more adaptable and can put the phalanx in a losing situation quickly

however even then we have proofs that even that disadvantage isn't insurmountable since there's instances where the phalanx can reform and adapt quickly to battlefield conditions at the Issus river

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, her belt is only 2.5inch, the shell looks to be AP, can French HE shell pen her?

[grave ravine]

???

Per Polybius the Chalkaspides retained good order when crossing the Agios Georgios

not that that seems to have helped them at all when they ran into 1 Legio

Leukaspides was ofc caught before it was fully formed, but the fight between 1 Legio and Chalkaspides was basically a picture perfect example of a Legion infiltrating and destroying a sarissa phalanx frontally

[autumn sorrel]

How much casualties did the Legion take during engagement like that?

[remote monolith]

and yet Livy himself speculated that the reason the Legion could infiltrate the Phalanx lines was because their advance broke up the tight line?

The most probable explanation of the victory is that several separate engagements were going on all over the field, which first shook the phalanx out of its formation and then broke it up. As long as it was compact, its front bristling with leveled spears, its strength was irresistible. If by attacking them at various points you compel them to bring round their spears, which owing to their length and weight are cumbersome and unwieldy, they become a confused and involved mass, but if any sudden and tumultuous attack is made on their flank or rear, they go to pieces like a falling house. In this way they were forced to meet the repeated charges of small bodies of Roman troops with their front dislocated in many places, and wherever there were gaps the Romans worked their way amongst their ranks. If the whole line had made a general charge against the phalanx while still unbroken, as the Paeligni did at the beginning of the action against the caetrati, they would have spitted themselves upon their spears and have been powerless against their massed attack.

[grave ravine]

pretty minimal, less than 100 and mostly amongst the Paeligni (the battle started with a skirmish between the Paeligni and various Macedonian auxiliaries, and they had a tough fight with the Agema)

[remote monolith]

Pydna also involves Macedonian auxiliaries getting beaten first by Rome's elephant cohorts followed by further auxiliaries following up with a charge no? That basically doomed the phalanx with lack of flank support on both wings

[grave ravine]

Yes, the Romans broke up the Phalanx through the manipular tactics, infiltrating through any gaps that formed naturally or were cause by causalties

[remote monolith]

and the gaps were possible because the flanks broke up forcing the Macedonians to stretch out their formations to deal with the various cropping weak spots

because from Livy it seems the Macedonian flanks crumbled first

the phalanx noticed this and attempted to compensate, but this weakens the center and causing to turn vulnerable

[grave ravine]

While we know that the Macedonian left collapses under attack from Dextra Ala and the elephants, Plutarch and Livy both seem to indicate that Chalkaspides was primarily destroyed by 1 Legio, while the Roman right pursued the Macedonian auxiliaries

Though an element of this is that Chalkaspides really doesn't last much longer either, the battle ending very quickly after the heavy infantry engage

And again we know from Polybius (and to a lesser extent Plutarch) that Chalkaspides was in good order when 1 Legio engaged them

[remote monolith]

eeeeh Plutarch seems to imply the Romans broke themselves upon the phalanx and retreated early on, however as the battle advanced and the Macedonians moved forward the lines became broken and fragmented, allowing the Romans to deal with them piecemeal

The Romans, when they attacked the Macedonian phalanx, were unable to force a passage, and Salvius, the commander of the Pelignians, snatched the standard of his company and hurled it in among the enemy. 2 Then the Pelignians, since among the Italians it is an unnatural and flagrant thing to abandon a standard, rushed on towards the place where it was, and dreadful losses were inflicted and suffered on both sides. 3 For the Romans tried to thrust aside the long spears of their enemies with their swords, or to crowd them back with their shields, or to seize and put them by with their very hands; 4 while the Macedonians, holding them firmly advanced with both hands, and piercing those who fell upon them, armour and all, since neither shield nor breastplate could resist the force of the Macedonian long spear, hurled headlong back the Pelignians and Marrucinians, who, with no consideration but with animal fury rushed upon the strokes that p409 met them, and a certain death. 5 When the first line had thus been cut to pieces, those arrayed behind them were beaten back; and though there was no flight, still they retired towards the mountain called Olocrus, 6 so that even Aemilius, as Poseidonius tells us, when he saw it, rent his garments. For this part of his army was retreating, and the rest of the Romans were turning aside from the phalanx, which gave them no access to it, but confronted them as it were with a dense barricade of long spears, and was everywhere unassailable.

But the ground was uneven, and the line of battle so long that shields could not be kept continuously locked together, and Aemilius therefore saw that the Macedonian phalanx was getting many clefts and intervals in it, as is natural when armies are large and the efforts of the combatants are diversified; portions of it were hard pressed, and other portions were dashing forward. 8 Thereupon he came up swiftly, and dividing up his cohorts, ordered them to plunge quickly into the interstices and empty spaces in the enemy's line and thus come to close quarters, not fighting a single battle against them all, but many separate and successive battles.

[grave ravine]

The Paeligni are picked Socii auxiliairies, not the Legions

[remote monolith]

but no matter where you look at it, the infiltration was only possible because the concentration of the Macedonians was shattered

through a combination of uneven terrain and crumbling flanks

[grave ravine]

We know from archaeology that the terrain would not have been that even, especially since the surviving Polybius fragment indicates that Chalkaspides was still in good order when it engaged 1 Legio

And again while Chalkaspides' flanks should have been floating, Livy specifically mentions the Phalanx being frontally infiltrated

In this way they were forced to meet the repeated charges of small bodies of Roman troops with their front dislocated in many places, and wherever there were gaps the Romans worked their way amongst their ranks.

[remote monolith]

that's...what I'm saying? The terrains were uneven? And I'm not sure that Livy saying the lines were infiltrated is in any way disproving that in an even, frontal charge the Legion would prevail against the phalanx. The reason the Romans were able to do that in the first place is that the phalanx became unwieldy thanks to a combination of being situated in rough grounds and their flanks crumbling, causing a breakdown of order, plus Perseus not engaging his cavalry in any way for some reason

[grave ravine]

sorry I meant to say that uneven

[remote monolith]

all the pieces seems to imply that Pydna being the way it did was a combination of the phalanx fighting in uneven terrain against a tactically canny opponent who has superiority in terms of auxiliary support coupled with the Macedonian king's blunder

[grave ravine]

It was a battleground picked by the Macedonians

[remote monolith]

tbf Perseus had no choice

if he didn't give battle he risked losing entirely

[grave ravine]

Plutarch, the only person who mentions uneven terrain, earlier highlights that the Macedonians specifically picked the site for its even and confined battlespace!

The place afforded a plain for his phalanx, which required firm standing and smooth ground, and there were hills succeeding one another continuously, which gave his skirmishers and light-armed troops opportunity for retreat and flank attack. Moreover, through the middle of it ran the rivers Aeson and Leucus, which were not very deep at that time (for it was the latter end of summer), but were likely, nevertheless, to give the Romans considerable trouble.

And while Chalkaspides was kinda inevitably gonna be destroyed given the entire rest of the Macedonian army was collapsing around it, it is once again worth noting that Chalkaspides is dismantled in a frontal engagement with 1 Legio

[grave ravine]

What Livy is doing here is not claiming that the Phalanx was frontally invulnerable, but rather specifically highlighting that the manipular tactics allowed the Legions to open up and infiltrate the Phalanx

The Legions don't just charge as a single mass, because thats not how they fight

[remote monolith]

but the text did say the Macedonians moved forward and driving the legion back to a mountain called Olocrus \which would be consistent as they moved from more even grounds to more unwieldy ones

[grave ravine]

Also to be clear the collapse of the rest of the Macedonian army would have been primarily caused by the nature of the way the battle escalated from a skirmish with both sides attempting to rapidly deploy, the Chalkaspides and Agema (and possibly some other auxiliaries on the left) are the only Macedonian forces that seem to actually get to fully deploy before getting attacked

[remote monolith]

I don't get that impression honestly, its more like he stressed the importance of the phalanx to stay interlocked and prevent getting unwieldy, as gaps allowed the Romans to deal with the formation piecemeal

[remote monolith]

well yeah, Pydna was more or less a surprise engagement with Perseus scrambling to get his forces in shape and having to quickly choose the most suitable engagement ground

[grave ravine]

Battlefield archaeology indicates that mount Olokros was probably the Kitros ridge, and while falling back on high ground is advantageous its still a relatively shallow rise, and either way this part of the text was discussing the Paeligni facing the Agema

Chalkaspides doesn't seem to have gotten far past the Agios Georgios, and shouldn't have really encountered a rise

[grave ravine]

Perseus is scrambling to field his forces (as of course is Aemilius), but the battlefield was already picked (by the Macedonians), with the armies having been encamped there for days

[grave ravine]

Yes, the Phalanx needed to stay cohesive, as Livy illustrates maniples are able to infiltrate the gaps and dismantle the phalanx that way

The thing is that gaps are inevitable, people are not robots and getting pila thrown at you certainly doesn't help matters

Chalkaspides was said to be in good order when it engaged 1 Legio, yet 1 Legio was able to open up and exploit gaps anyways

[junior trench]

(oh my god actual history talk)

[remote monolith]

I mean even that study seems to imply that had the phalanx remained in cohesion there would have no chance for the Romans to infiltrate the lines

Yet the cohesion of the pike phalanx failed rapidly. Because of the forward advance of the Agema, the left flank of the Chalkaspides was vulnerable from the start, but Plutarch emphasized the “varied efforts of the combatants” that saw some parts of the line push well ahead of others, opening up “breaks and gaps.”39As Livy says, there were “many scattered combats” that “first broke apart the phalanx in its uneven advance, then destroyed it.”40

The Leukaspides were not fully formed whenthe Romans attacked, and were quickly infiltrated and destroyed by II Legioas a result (Liv.44.41.6:inmissa dissipauit phalangem).It is entirely possible that the Leukaspides did not even advance across the Agios Georgios.

The impetuous advance of the Agema doomed the main phalanx from the beginning. Had the Agema held back, it might have protected the vulnerable flank of the Chalkaspides and effected a coordinated attack against the legions. Instead,the elite corps committed itself to an ultimately ancillary fight.

this means the engagement likely happened when the phalanx, both the white shields and the bronze shields, were, despite in good order, not in their ideal shape, and without sufficient support in the flanks. Meanwhile Paullus wisely ignored the Agema and focused his attacks on the 2 corps which secured his victory, more so since Perseus declined to engage his cavalry

either way, in the interest to prevent this from going on and on, I think there's no doubt the Legion was definitely more maneuverable and adaptable, even with efforts from the Diadochi to overcome the main weaknesses of the phalanx by adding extra auxiliaries to fill the gaps and act as skirmishers or flank support

[grave ravine]

Leukaspides of course had not formed up yet, that was never in question, but while Chalkaspides' left flank was floating, so was 1 Legio's, and no allied formation was able to exploit that

Chalkaspides, by virtue of exiting the camp first, had time to fully form up and cross the Agios Georgios

[autumn sorrel]

I think both of you are arguing the same point, that the Legion Manipular system flexibility allows its officers to freely command and exploit any gap or weakness in their enemy formations, compare to the phalanx rigid and unwieldy command.

[grave ravine]

I would agree that a phalanx is far less flexible than a Legion, but the flexibility of the Manipular tactics (as well as the generally much heavier body armor and larger shields of legionaries) allowed it to infiltrate and dismantle a phalanx under any realistic combat conditions

I think the idea of the Phalanx being unbeatable when not flanked or "disorganized by terrain" is silly, both because Phalanx's actual combat record against the legions is pretty abysmal, but also because again people are not robots, and gaps in the formation will always exist, just as battlefields are never going to be featureless planes, and there will always be some degree of terrain that needs to be accounted for

[remote monolith]

basically yeah, but the argument is by now is specifically focused on their interactions in Pydna, which as you can see goes on and on and on and back and forth

[autumn sorrel]

Wasn't the Phalanx were often many rank deep with originally 3-4 pike can be level down at the front? I know that Diadochi war prompted an arm race which result in Sarissa getting much longer which increase the number of pike head presented at the front. Even that not enough to deter a Legionnaire?

[grave ravine]

The claims of an arms race leading to longer sarissae were based on outdated scholarship that has since been disproven

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, you don't need to flank them, at Magnesia where the Seleucid failed to suppress the Roman skirmishers, the Phalanx formation was harass by them and it create many gap and disorder in their center.

[remote monolith]

a Legion formation has a lot over the Phalanx, its more maneuverable, it features more heavily equipped individual soldiers, and pilum for each man

and yeah the Sarissa arm's race theory doesn't really hold water anymore

the evidence is pretty nebulous and some findings indicate Sarissa length has been fairly stable between Alexander and Magnesia

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, I guess Phillip found the right combination of length and wieldiness, the longer the pike the harder it is to control and more taxing for its wielder

[zenith plover]

anyone here likes Pre 1900 history?(ofc after 1500)

[desert agate]

Yes

[visual rover]

https://x.com/kon_marine/status/1829556274524258552?s=61

Koninklijke Marine (@kon_marine) on X

Na 5 maanden opereren in het Caribisch gebied is https://t.co/JJ5CCX4i1D. Groningen vandaag teruggekeerd in Den Helder. Het schip onderschepte in totaal bijna 7000 kilo aan cocaïne. https://t.co/JJ5CCX4i1D. Holland neemt het stokje over in de West 🇨🇼 👉 https://t.co/M2ra0hzDC6

Twitter · Aug 30, 2024, 4:26 PM

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, what are the consensus on the Aviso type of ship?

[desert agate]

colonial gunboats

good for that not much more

[zenith plover]

you could give a ping

wonna help me

[desert agate]

if im helping you with colonial Australian history then certainly

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1830083291522703413

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

Soon after he helped complete the construction of USS Lardner in 1942, shipyard worker Charles Klein joined the Navy and entered flight school. Three years later, his Avenger crashed into the ocean and he was rescued by a passing ship. It was the Lardner.
#SeaStorySaturday

Twitter · Sep 1, 2024, 3:20 AM

[runic ermine]

WW2 started today

[desert agate]

wasnt that a while ago or have i missed some headlines?

[eternal veldt]

You have, report to the nearest conscription office now

[desert agate]

[runic ermine]

You know what I mean

[visual rover]

https://x.com/kon_marine/status/1828072139263447250?s=61

Koninklijke Marine (@kon_marine) on X

Vanaf deze week zijn 2 schepen actief voor de Standing NATO Maritime Group 1. https://t.co/JJ5CCX3Kc5. Van Amstel is vandaag uit Den Helder vertrokken om zich hierbij aan de sluiten. https://t.co/JJ5CCX3Kc5. De Ruyter verliet de haven vorige week 👉 https://t.co/qscroo6C5J

Twitter · Aug 26, 2024, 2:08 PM

[runic ermine]

Ots 12 in Chechnya

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2re1fmbeZQ

[analog anchor]

High evasion little girl

🫡

[runic ermine]

@lime scarab
-The Soviet Pacific fleet had more ships than the IJN did in the area
-The Soviet Pacific fleet had:
2 Kirov class Cruisers
1 Destoryer leader
10 other DDs
19 Destoryer escorts
49 submarine chasers
78 submarines
204 MTBs
And 1,549 aircraft
-The IJN only had:
1 outdated cruiser
1 Destoryer
45 patrol boats
And 170 aircraft
https://youtube.com/shorts/Pt37GCnbkdc?si=7mfZLAOO_tsABAjw

Furthermore, the Japanese Volunteer Fighting Corps wasn't exactly well equipped. National Defense rifles, late war arisakas, some mgs and in some cases, no firearms at all

[manic latch]

https://x.com/Tank_Archives/status/1830320721563967981?t=-rEefJW27qTrp2d_tDtCDg&s=19

Tank Archives (@Tank_Archives) on X

#OTD in 1942 the KT (A-40) flying tank project took off on its first and only flight. A glider carrying a T-60 tank was too heavy to tow with a TB-3 bomber, plus the T-60 was already considered obsolete by the time the experiment was performed. #tanks #history #WW2 #WWII

Twitter · Sep 1, 2024, 7:04 PM

[chilly osprey]

TBH the Soviets really did not have the means to launch an amphibious assault against Hokkaido unless the Americans gave them heavy support in doing so.

Which was simply not likely.

They outright lacked the amphibious lift to really get to Hokkaido in the first place, at least in sufficient numbers to cope with the defenses. They had only a limited number to begin with (that the Americans had given them) and took serious losses invading the much closer Kurils.

[grave ravine]

Invading the Kurils after Japan announced the intent to surrender

There is a good chance the Soviet landings at Shumshu would have outright failed had it been more than just a chunk of the garrison going rogue

[runic ermine]

The main thing is that at this point, Japan didn't exactly have the ability to defend themselves unless it was a suicidal last stand

[chilly osprey]

Oh, well, good thing the Japanese would never try to make a suicidal last stand in 1945 /s

Jokes aside

The Japanese forces on Hokkaido were not the most formidable on offer but were sufficient in number and equipment to defeat the forces the Soviets could actually transport and land on the island.

Which played into why the Soviets backed off the concept after how badly their landings at Shumshu went.

The Americans had given them 30 landing craft, they employed sixteen against Shumshu and lost five of them because they couldn't shut down the Japanese coastal artillery.

They simply had no experience in these kinds of amphibious operations and were not very effective at coordinating air support and NGFS.

And to be honest, I don't know if they'd be able to effectively defend themselves against kamikaze attacks given their complete lack of experience dealing with these kinds of threats, and how poorly equipped most of the Pacific Fleet ships were for air defense relative to the American or British forces operating in the Pacific.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1830328573275574288

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1945, FADM Nimitz visited ADM Fraser aboard HMS Duke of York on the eve of the Japanese surrender ceremony. Nimitz noted the visit was “partly on official business, partly because I like him, and mostly to get a scotch and soda before dinner because our ships are dry.”

Twitter · Sep 1, 2024, 7:35 PM

[desert agate]

https://x.com/Jason_R_Burt/status/1830070573776437330

J&L Historical (@Jason_R_Burt) on X

During the Battle of the Bulge, General Omar Bradley was detained at an Allied checkpoint as a suspected spy when he correctly identified Springfield as the capital of Illinois. 🇺🇸

The MP questioning him mistakenly believed that Chicago was the capital. ⭐️

Twitter · Sep 1, 2024, 2:30 AM

[runic ermine]

I will never not find that story funny

Also:
https://youtu.be/UDWTMEYUXu8?si=ceHdYYhHUMtxvrdV

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1830434631428292702

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1985, the wreck of RMS Titanic was located by a Franco-American team that included Robert Ballard. The expedition to find the Titanic was actually a cover story for a secret mission funded by the U.S. Navy to survey the wrecks of the submarines USS Thresher and USS

Twitter · Sep 2, 2024, 2:36 AM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1830411980940980686

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1939, the pre-dreadnought battleship Schleswig-Holstein fired the first salvo of WWII when it began to bombard a Polish military base at Westerplatte in the Free City of Danzig. Germany had claimed Schleswig-Holstein was making a goodwill visit when the ship entered the

Twitter · Sep 2, 2024, 1:06 AM

[frozen kestrel]

Just realized Bismarck's missing a pair of searchlights on her WoWs model, so I fixed that real quick

[thorny patio]

I find it funny that the plane best used in AL is the Curtiss SB2C "Helldiver"

Most pilots hated the damn thing

So much it was nicknamed the "Son of a Bitch 2nd-Class"

[narrow rover]

Honestly, if the Soviets REALLY wanted Hokkaido that badly they'd be better off going for the diplomatic option. Maybe offer pulling out of East Germany or something in exchange for Hokkaido, though if they did anything close to what they wanted to do there (they wanted to... conscript their population to work in the USSR) they're getting booted off.

Or maybe somehow convince the WAllies that operation downfall is a good idea, and help out with occupation (since the Allies would need every man possible, they probably won't refuse some extra help)
Though an irradiated, depopulated wasteland isn't the most appealing war trophy.

[chilly flower]

Contrary to popular belief, many crewmen who flew and fought with it liked the Helldiver, and more often called it by it's "Beast" moniker. More often it was those who did not fly it that were the most outspoken advocates against it. It was valued for how rugged it was, it's speed compared to the SBD, heavier ordinance capacity in practice, 20mm armament, and later rocket-firing capability on the -4 and -5 models that appeared at the end of 1944, alongside other features. It's handling was also a lot better than is commonly perceived, and while it's not quite on par with the SBD in that regard, it was certainly good enough that most were fine with it.

Most of the bitterness concerning the SB2C was from it's rough initial service entry in 1943: most infamously from the captain of CV-10 Yorktown, Captain Joseph J. Clark (who was a perfectionist and subsequently responded with wanting to can the program when it turned out that it had some teething issues), that said I'd consider Clark more of a loud minority as other personnel were critical but less so of the SB2C-1, generally recognizing that many issues had already been recognized and fixes developed with things like the Mod II and Mod III packages that were being actively distributed at the time. Bunker Hill's Captain John J. Ballentine and the CO of VB-17 onboard advocated for it rather than rejected it outright, and despite encountering issues of their own, they worked closely with a Curtiss field representative to help with easing the type into service and working out flaws. VB-17 would also be the first to deploy the Helldiver in combat in November 1943, against "Fortress" Rabaul , in which they did extremely well despite the Japanese defenses being on full alert, and only suffered two losses from a pair of SB2Cs that ditched on the return trip with many other planes badly shot up but managing to land back onboard the carriers just fine despite suffering pretty significant damage (afterwards some of their SB2Cs actually actively participated in air defense against Japanese retaliatory strikes too, managing to claim three Zeros and a Val). They would go on to support the landings at Tarawa, raids against Nauru island, New Ireland, Kwajalein, Truk, and finally Tinian and Rota before being relieved by VB-8 after Feb 1944.

VB-17 paved the way for the SB2C's wider acceptance with the fleet once the more refined -1C model arrived, which started phasing out the SBD throughout 1944, completing replacing it onboard Carriers after the Battle of the Philippine Sea. Improved models like the -3 followed, with the late models of SB2C being arguably the most capable dive bomber to ever see service. I highly recommend reading the Crowood Aviation Series book Curtiss SB2C Helldiver by Peter C. Smith to get a better idea of the SB2C's history and the pilots and gunners who used it.

[mental tapir]

It's best in game due to its (surprisingly historically accurate) bomb load (though the goofy ahh way AL calculates bomb damage also helps)

Pretty impressive for a plane that had a less powerful engine than the Hellcat

Most of my knowledge about the SB2C came from this video:
https://youtu.be/jodMwJ1KVRA

[analog anchor]

https://youtu.be/X-1xRhtJzlI?si=PtniRycTWuIKj0E9

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8bbdBdm2jc

[timber linden]

The state of chicago and its occupied territories

[runic ermine]

I personally prefer the OTS-12

[runic ermine]

Rip
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13802163/sas-iranian-embassy-siege-falklands-war-raids-dies.html

[frozen kestrel]

Hey, so I'm starting work on the model for Bismarck by laying down the general guidelines for the model. I initially decided to use the metric measurement for Bismarck's dimension, but I noticed when I experimented by putting down the imperial measurements, there was a very minor difference between the two. I want to stay as accurate as possible, so should I continue with the metric measurements, or the imperial measurements?

[autumn sorrel]

German use metrics, when you do conversion to imperial there will be a small different. It is barely noticeable within a short length but for ship, it add up.

[frozen kestrel]

The one difference I notice is like, a .003 meter difference

[frozen kestrel]

That's when I put 823.5 ft into the thing

[autumn sorrel]

I guess it is still barely noticeable after all

[rapid junco]

What about this guy?

It reads

"Super Weed"

[thorny patio]

???

I was pinged

Wait there it is

That's one cool cat

[visual rover]

https://onzemarinevloot.weebly.com/fregatten-cannon-klasse.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Amstel-class_frigate

[shrewd pecan]

https://vxtwitter.com/i/status/1830589159318466707

[frozen kestrel]

Looking at Bismarck's WoWs model again. Why is there a vent grate thing over on the left side of the superstructure thing, but not one on the right?

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1831042163519414438

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

Following the surrender of Japan in 1945, FADM Chester Nimitz planned to go ashore at Yokosuka without his Marine orderly, reasoning that he was safe because any fanatical holdout would target MacArthur instead of him. An intel officer warned that the Admiral was more likely to

Twitter · Sep 3, 2024, 6:50 PM

An intel officer warned that the Admiral was more likely to be attacked because the Japanese believed they had been defeated by Nimitz and the U.S. Navy rather than MacArthur and the Army. An excellent marksman himself, Nimitz ordered his aide to the pistol range to practice shooting a .45 Colt before leaving for Yokosuka.

[autumn sorrel]

I dunno is this a compliment on Nimitz or a dish on MacArthur

[vale condor]

Both

[desert agate]

@eternal veldt @spiral cedar do you guys have any book or source recommendations for the fall of Singapore and/or the defences, their build up and the politics surrounding the Singapore Strategy

i have found some useful sources already but i want to know if you guys have anything good as well

[desert agate]

oh and naval deployments

if you have

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1830982166228226204

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1945, FADM Nimitz decided to visit wounded Japanese servicemen in a hospital as an act of goodwill following the formal surrender of Japan. However, the patients were terrified to learn that the U.S. Navy's "head man" was coming because they thought he was an executioner.

Twitter · Sep 3, 2024, 2:52 PM

[eternal veldt]

Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse does cover some bits about Force Z and Singapore's relationship

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1831102060017975769

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

After signing the Instrument of Surrender, the Japanese delegation traveled to Tokyo to report to Emperor Hirohito that they had been treated with a magnanimity that Japan probably would not have shown the U.S. if the roles were reversed. The Emperor agreed.
#TuesdayThoughts

Twitter · Sep 3, 2024, 10:48 PM

[manic latch]

"We ate 2 suns"

[runic ermine]

Uh didn't they lose 4 carriers in one battle?

And lost an entire army in Manchuria

And some of their own soldiers were starving to death

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, US at least don’t sent their Marine half starve into battle and the US Navy don’t intentionally “forget” to resupply US Army units

[autumn sorrel]

And this one claim is a bit exaggerated

[runic ermine]

Yes but still. It wasn't exactly looking good for japan

[desert agate]

I don’t think that’s what he’s trying to say

He’s basically saying that the Allies won because their spirit was better

The Japanese had prosecuted the war and based their ideals of Allied soldiers on an Ideal of Japanese racial superiority

What he’s trying to say is that the Japanese ideal was inferior to the ideals of the Allies or the Allied spirit was superior to their own which led to the defeat

It’s obviously far from a perfect statement but I think it matches a lot of modern political philosophy about WW2 and how it was fundamentally a challenge of liberal democratic ideals vs autocracy and dictatorship and the democracies won

[manic latch]

Sounds like typical diplomat glazing after loss

Bet he would have different opinion if Japan won

[desert agate]

obviously he literally says that he would have

[manic latch]

I think my favorite diplomat is George F. Kennan

Aka "The Wise Man"

[mental tapir]

Kid named "peace dividend"

[manic latch]

It wasn't THAT bad still

Always top 1 lol

Tho 200 bil loss for a while can be oof ye (then war on terror comes and stonk go up)

[junior trench]

Does the chart account for inflation or does it just list flat values to make line go up

[manic latch]

Influation adjusted dollar yup

Tho i like this one

Shows impressive economy of US

And ship printer of 40s

[desert agate]

except that the American military industrial establishment did substantially change

in 1993 SecDef invited the CEOs of all of the largest defence contractors to a meeting where he told them, to paraphrase, "merge or die"

[mental tapir]

I see a lot of people say that Boeing became shite because of McDonnell Douglas and I'm like damn, the makers of the F-4 Phantom and F-15 Eagle really fell off huh

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, that quote is just horseshit in the context of what actually happened

[mental tapir]

Was it Dick Cheney?

[desert agate]

Les Aspin

[mental tapir]

Ahh ok

[autumn sorrel]

McDonnell tried to streamline their quality management process by focus in one project at a time instead of allow their technical staff and researchers working on multiple projects. As a result, they lay off many in managerial and supervisor position. When the Cold War ended and with the A-12 project canceled, MD face with another round of layoff. Last nail in the coffin is their effort to get into the commercial market which are dominated by Boeing and Airbus, which failed.

Ironically, when the merger happened, MD higher up get to bossed their old employee, who after getting laid off at MD came to work at Boeing.

[visual rover]

https://x.com/kon_marine/status/1830978397931217242?s=61

Koninklijke Marine (@kon_marine) on X

📸 https://t.co/JJ5CCX4i1D. Tromp, https://t.co/JJ5CCX4i1D. Holland, https://t.co/JJ5CCX4i1D. Pelikaan samen met Kustwachtvaartuig Jaguar en helikopter AW139 in het Caribisch Gebied 🌎

Twitter · Sep 3, 2024, 2:37 PM

[subtle prawn]

Blame the Jack Welch mentality that was brought on

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orxQ49d2syk

[maiden citrus]

"we were beaten on the battlefield by superior arms and defeated by a nobler ideal"

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/RH_BAES_Land/status/1831014081865863579

RBSL (@RH_BAES_Land) on X

The finishing touches are complete on the latest Challenger 3 pre-production vehicle produced at our #Telford manufacturing facility, ready for its participation in #ArmyExpo24. #BestForTheBest #OneDefence #ShapingAGlobalBritain #TankTuesday

Twitter · Sep 3, 2024, 4:59 PM

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/2NFC8nh8UD4?si=vNbq2wkCQZ7H_JDE

I feel bad for the pilots and ground crew who got covered in oil.

https://youtu.be/zELul8q0HjM?si=GvjtQqRR0SYtJZwT

https://youtu.be/AmlC6_rLWb0?si=AgKn4MBZUcD5hHP_

[runic ermine]

Has he done one on the Ilya muromets

[unkempt sedge]

Last I checked, no sadly. Would like to see him do more WW1 aviation..

I hope he does more in depths on Japanese aircraft like the J2M (his Ki-84 series was great).

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/ouCCJqv73Ng?si=rlZud4_mDM5V-tYn

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/Sk7Ajz5GOuc?si=DeaY2MhRSp0bdUR9

[fierce sparrow]

https://x.com/ChungTzuW/status/1831360008157843705

Chung-Tzu (@ChungTzuW) on X

Twitter · Sep 4, 2024, 3:53 PM

[mental tapir]

Mouf

[fierce sparrow]

https://fxtwitter.com/Fighterman_FFRC/status/1831573408406188516

[sonic falcon]

yak 141 my beloved

[runic ermine]

The Churchill debate on Twitter makes me lose faith in humanity

[sonic falcon]

what debate?

[runic ermine]

Idiots are saying that Churchill was the "bad guy" of ww2

[sonic falcon]

man hitler was a good guy i swear!!11111 he didnt kill jews1111!!

''hitler wanted to save the white race''

[runic ermine]

It's also worth noting that Churchill wasn't even prime minister when ww2 started

Or when hitler came into power

[sonic falcon]

the typical this leader is bad because he fought against nazis

[visual rover]

Japanese JMSDF Mogami class Frigates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogami-class_frigate

[remote monolith]

I'm guessing it was regarding the Bengal Famine

of which there's still plenty of debates about his exact role in it and whether he actively exacted the famine or he inadvertently exacerbated it

[runic ermine]

Reminds me of the Holodomor. It's debated whether Stalin purposefully did it or if it was inadvertently cause by his 5 year plan

[remote monolith]

its a similar premise yeah, although arguably the Holodomor is a bit more clear cut in that Churchil had no obvious genocidal tendencies against Indian beyond the bog standard racism and perhaps a good deal of apathy towards their suffering, while afaik Stalin had full intention to at least reduce a certain grouping in Ukraine in terms of numbers

[runic ermine]

Yeah. And the only other difference is that if it was intentional or unintentional. Stalin caused it

[sonic falcon]

some just deny holodomor

[remote monolith]

my own position for the famine is that, while Churchill certainly wouldn't feel particularly bad about Bengalis starving en masse, at that point Britain was having critical lack of shipping to transport food around, had to contend with Japanese forces in Burma, was rationing in the home island itself, and there was a cyclone that made things worse

so his hands were tied in way

[runic ermine]

Same

And the Japanese would have killed people en masse if they successfully invaded

[runic ermine]

Like a lot of things

[remote monolith]

denying the Holodomor and IJA apologia already falls into bloody stupid department and not worth discussing over

[runic ermine]

What about the kantai collection controversy?

[visual rover]

https://youtu.be/PV-lor9XNGM?si=uE15y-QkFRmncS-p

The Netherlands Fleet in Cold War

[desert agate]

The Japanese policy towards India was far more restrained than that which was employed in China

That’s pretty clear in places like Burma where, while atrocities did happen, they were nowhere near the scale that was seen in China

That’s mainly because the Japanese goal was to employ the native peoples as allies in their war and to provide markets for Japanese goods post war

Japanese occupation policy in that theatre was thus far more focused on attempting to create a nation, modern Myanmar can trace a lot of its independence to the Japanese as a result

I think a lot of Japanese occupation policy outside of China is widely misunderstood as it’s often framed within the context of what was happening in China or from Allied personnel who were victims of mass atrocities, as well as European civilians living in those areas

That’s also not to say that Japan in any way shape or form would have or could have prevented the Bengal Famine either

They were inarguably in a worse position than the British to help even had they somehow conquered the region

As for the Famine itself, while there were a large number of factors at play, it is a fact that the British government had access to resources and material which could have at the very least lessened the suffering caused by the famine, even if they couldn’t have prevented it outright

I’ve discussed in this channel before but Australian grain was actively flowing into the region, everywhere except Bengal, where the British, who managed imports into the country, simply didn’t import any grain to Burma, and there were reasons for this, but I think those reasons could have been overcome had the political will been there

[desert agate]

No it’s just pure revisionism and modern American politics

The guys calling Churchill the bad guy aren’t doing it because they give a rats ass about Bengalis in fact it’s quite the opposite

It’s because Churchill was the greatest anti fascist to ever live and their guy well, he didnt like their guy

[grave ravine]

A certain degree of apathy to the Bengal Famine also stemmed from the fact that the Bengalis had been some of the most violently pro-independence

It's also thought that was an element of why the partition divided Bengal and Punjab

[unkempt sedge]

It's Japan's POV and that's to be expected regardless of how wrong it is. It's never going to change.

It doesn't bother me really that much anymore. We won and they lost. Simply put.

That's all I need to know.

And there would be no Azur Lane without Kantai Collection (or ARP). Heck, shipgirls would not be a thing.

I may not have played it (though KC Saratoga holds a special place in my heart), but I respect it for starting the trend.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymIP9uKSkBI

[manic latch]

Churchill has problems about 2 Famines actually

Some accuse him being supportive or indifferent about starvation of Germany

Some say he was trying to save citizens by trying to end it after peace

[chilly osprey]

I'm sort of confused by why he would be held responsible for the famine in this period? He wasn't exactly the one making the calls. He was Minister for Munitions under DLG's government from July 1917 to January 1919, when he double hatted as Secretary Of State of War and SoS for Air from then to 1921.

[manic latch]

There are some people saying blockade was his idea but yeah I don't think he had such powers to do that in first place

Likely just churchill hate

[runic ermine]

Generation War which has been called the German band of Brothers was controversial

Simply for showing the German side of things

[runic ermine]

But on the note of the KC's "gimmick", yes without it there'd be no Azur Lane

[unkempt sedge]

I never watched it and from what I am aware and it wasn't glorifying Germany or Nazism at all.

It was simply explaining what the experiences of what the average Wehrmacht soldier faced and experienced.

[runic ermine]

Exactly

[unkempt sedge]

Besides KC did add allied ships anyway and they were not portrayed in any villainous way, but actually in an unbiased way.

TBH, I actually did think they did a good job considering the box they were in.

[runic ermine]

I know. It's in the anime that people got a bit pissed

[junior trench]

The issue with KC's allied ships for the longest, and still partially ongoing, time is the glaring omissions

And for a long time they were only adding ships which had been sunk by the IJN or just were never really present in the Pacific

[unkempt sedge]

Well the problem was Kadokawa really didn't know where to go with the show. So the plot was basic and a lot of things were not explained well at all.

In the very beginning the Abyssals were perceived as Allied ships which did not help them any.

The second season was worse because they backed themselves into a corner with the first season that they could not maneuver and salvage the story.

They really did not have a lot of faith in it and didn't think it would be as successful as it was.

The contrary happened that players outside Japan wanted to play.

[unkempt sedge]

They could have been A LOT worse with the Allied ships and I was pleasantly suprised with how it turned out.

Well again, it's the Japanese perspective of the Pacific War and not the Allied one whether people like it or not.

The USN ships that were sunk by them would be more well known to them because well.......they sank them. So that makes sense.

[mental tapir]

You'd think they'd add Enterprise then, considering they sunk her like, six times

[desert agate]

https://fxtwitter.com/AyakashiKamo/status/1831680203913097234/photo/1

goes hard

[runic ermine]

Agreed

[visual rover]

https://youtu.be/9WlPQTgRFaU?si=AtSHpgPPU_eX-mG_

[runic ermine]

Also the events in the two animes mirroring real life

As well as how midway was portrayed and the mention of Operation AI

[narrow rover]

Is there any real controversy around that game other than just general IJN wank

[narrow rover]

People somehow miss the fact that 1940s ANYONE was honestly pretty shitty compared to modern standards lol

He didn't side with Hitler, that's good guy enough for me...

[runic ermine]

Yes

But it's not history based

[narrow rover]

Oh

Then I don't care iirc

[chilly osprey]

I mean, the blockade to beguin with is a viable war tactic. Certainly the central powers were trying to use starvation as a tactic against the Entente as well. It's more a question of 'who actually has the responsibility of ending it at the end of the conflict' that really matters here.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS-g2JjQSJ4

[unkempt sedge]

They did.

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/z9dH4xBSVJI?si=JeOOzvR-lnoKuuw4

As much as I'd like to see it preserved. I can't see this ship getting saved. IMO she's done for.

It's been sitting there for years and no one has stepped to the plate to buy and restore it. To preserve it the right way IMO it should be dry-berthed.

I mean look at how bad both USS Texas and Queen Mary deteriorated over the years due to poor management.

It's sad, but maybe an artificial reef is it's future. Which at least it will then serve a useful purpose, and can be visited by divers, than just continue to rust at anchor or getting scrapped.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drZBgVcNR4Y

[junior trench]

???

https://tenor.com/view/fubuki-confused-hololive-gif-18015941

[subtle prawn]

I think what they're trying to say here is they added Enty into KC

[sullen canyon]

Wait after all these years KC added Enty now?

[junior trench]

There's no db entry yet

And I cba to check further

So

X to doubt

Unless they actually think the Pacific fan project Enterprise is official

[subtle prawn]

Wait, no I suck

[desert agate]

look chat, it's Enterprise

[shrewd pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072935685008400456/1281777872717221898/ADATS720P_HD.mp4?ex=66dcf42b&is=66dba2ab&hm=5cd4befbc0688b479a219edd1a9d1d5373182449d372a6f376214099e3b85e0e&

[glacial mortar]

hey guys, how many museum ships can we visit in the US?

[sullen canyon]

Oh, hello other New Jersey

[sullen canyon]

Off hand for US museum ships so far that I know of is Washington, Intrepid, Hornet, Texas I want to say, and I think New Jersey is now one too after the overhaul she was going through. And those are the mainland US ones.

If anything a quick Google search of US ship museums might be more detailed

[subtle prawn]

All of the Iowa-class ships are museum ships

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAgUYSXuttw

[unkempt sedge]

I don't play KC, but I saw some pictures circulating.

Probably it' just
Fanart.

Yeah, forget what I said.

[unkempt sedge]

You also have USS Constitution preserved. USS Salem, USS Kidd, USS the Sullivan's, and all the various Gato and Balao subs preseved.

And there's more than that.

Not to mention we also have Queen Mary in Long Beach if your into Ocean Liners.

All I can say is there will never be an SS United States museum 😭.

It feels like a repeat of trying to save CV-6 to no avail.

[desert agate]

United States cannot be restored unfortunately

Turning her into a reef is really the best way of keeping her around at this point given her level of degradation

[unkempt sedge]

Agreed.

She's been sitting in that status for 3 decades now.

At least her wreck can be viewed by divers.

Better than being fully scrapped.

[desert agate]

And better than being left to rot even more

[unkempt sedge]

And considering what happened to Queen Mary and her history of neglectful owners, she probably would not do well as a museum/hotel.

Though as far as Queen Mary is concerned her current location is a stupid idea. I mean it's right next to a
freight terminal FFS.

[ivory ridge]

https://fixupx.com/NichoConcu/status/1832413708825362713?t=7dWLxKQk8iXlZakaZy9eQQ&s=19

[sullen canyon]

Turning her into an artificial reef would make it great for the wildlife and also for divers to check it out as well.

[unkempt sedge]

It may be a sad ending. But, it's not the worst one.

[sullen canyon]

Sad only that no one will see her in her former glory, but great for divers that want to explore wreckages like that, especially when they are artificial reefs too.

[unkempt sedge]

Ye

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEFALN8D8t0

[junior trench]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-okay-then-meh-unamused-nom-gif-18015248

[haughty mountain]

Are somebody know how italian/romaniam troop unifrom in stalingrad looks like?

[timber linden]

https://tenor.com/view/spinning-elon-musk-elon-spinning-elon-target-gif-1336931549740070810

[runic ermine]

Italian

[runic ermine]

Romanian

[mental tapir]

Still blows my mind that the time difference between the F-86 Sabre's first flight (1947) and the F-16 Viper's first flight (1974)(diff. of 27 years) is shorter than that between the F-16 Viper's first flight and the F-35 Lightning II's first flight (2006) (diff. of 32 years)

[haughty mountain]

Thanks you very much bro you are legends

But my friend say italian use german gear in stalingrad that true?

[desert agate]

Maybe towards the latter end of the battle when access to Italian ammunition became impossible

[narrow rover]

One battle killed 2 million
That's like the entire IJA + IJN deaths in WW2
Insane

[narrow rover]

Honestly I'd like to see Cutty Sark back in the oceans one day

[craggy girder]

Unpopular Topic: Some Iron Blood Ships were Named After Figures, Most Notable I think is Bismarck, Hipper, Prinz Eugen, Friedrich Der Große

But Have You ever thought of uhm.. Gneisenau and Scharnhorst and Maybe even Blücher? (Yes, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau are not just silly names, They are Generals..)

This is Generalleutnant Scharnhorst

And Scharnhorst is Literally me.

Generalmajor Gneisenau

All are Napoleonic Figures.

(Also Lutzow had a Free Corps or Freikorps)

[runic ermine]

Or ammunition in general

[runic ermine]

No it was a bit more than that

[somber knoll]

bro this is peak comedy

[desert agate]

ok

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1832767625010487691

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#RIP U.S. Navy Petty Officer 1st Class Calvin Moon who passed away on Thursday at the age of 100. Moon served on USS Razorback (SS-394) for five combat patrols during WWII and had been New Jersey's oldest living submarine veteran.

Twitter · Sep 8, 2024, 1:07 PM

[nocturne crypt]

If you think about it, the guy who killed archduke Ferdinand had the highest assists

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bub6GoTKSmE

[remote monolith]

@desert agate https://www.newsweek.com/fossils-paleontology-tasmanian-tiger-earliest-ancestor-discovered-1950843

wake the fuck up important evolutionary step in the appearance of Thylacines is here

The newly described species each roamed Australia around 25-23 million years ago during the Oligocene epoch and represent the oldest "undoubted" members of the thylacinid family ever found, according to a study published in the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology.

The Tasmanian tiger, which is now extinct, was the only member of the wider thylacinid family to survive into modern times.

Known simply as the thylacine, it was a marsupial mammal native to the Australian mainland, as well as the islands of Tasmania and New Guinea. Appearing around 4 million years ago, the species was the largest living carnivorous marsupial until the time of its extinction.

[bright skiff]

Continuing a convo from general:

• Littorio's rudders: Littorio and sisters had four propellers and three rudders. A central main one and two auxiliary ones.
  VV got her port-side auxiliary rudder jammed by a torpedo during Matapan. She was dead in the water for like an hour, then managed to sail at half-power (reaching and maintaining a speed between 16 and 19kn) for the week it took her to get back to Taranto.
  End of my rudder yapping, please continue as usual

[ivory ridge]

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJRbe-2EgT4

[runic ermine]

Rip
https://x.com/PoppyLegion/status/1833158426534277311?t=vcB6WSHG1pF_JN-HZaklmg&s=19

Royal British Legion (@PoppyLegion) on X

We are deeply saddened to learn of the passing of D-Day veteran Don Sheppard.

After serving in North Africa and Sicily in WW2, Don landed on Juno Beach on 6 June 1944 and spent three months as a despatch rider and driver in Normandy.

Twitter · Sep 9, 2024, 3:00 PM

[desert agate]

found a very interesting map of army deployments on Singapore during my research for a project

[desert agate]

It is of little importance where ships are distributed in peace. The only test is war. It is the tradition of Japan to seize the initiative, and begin when the flag falls or a little before. We must expect the loss of Singapore and Hong Kong before our Grand Fleet trails out there. We must also expect the appearance of Japanese submarines in the Sea of Malacca. It is useless to send a battalion to Singapore when Japan has shown herself capable of capturing a first class fortress like Port Arthur, defended by 45,000 men.
1923 btw

i shouldnt be surprised at how incompetent British planning around Singapore was but the more I read about it I'm still shocked at the sheer delusion on display

[remote monolith]

urgh

whyyyyyyyy

[maiden citrus]

w-

goodness me

[autumn sorrel]

I could do a better job in 10 min with that thumbnail, just saying

[narrow rover]

It's probably either Napoleon or Genghis Khan tbh

[desert agate]

https://fxtwitter.com/vodk_anon/status/1833512363380904426/photo/1

[narrow rover]

Get rotated

[desert agate]

looking at this it's kind of a shock how much and how little Fremantle has changed over the years

[visual rover]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_submarine

[craggy girder]

Upplands (If Anyone has more pictures, I’m happy to take)

[hardy spade]

Do you ever try UBoat.net? Has loads of data usually of their uses and patrols plus captains,also see surface ship logs too interestjng

[visual rover]

I know everything
i has know many all the royal netherlands navy warships and submarine (history and modern) everything

But i learn history ships of the Netherlands navy in world war 2

two netherlands submarines can sunk German u-boats in 1941 and 1944
Im using the “Uboat.net” to serach the subs

[sly socket]

dang, i gotta check this out

[manic latch]

[terse mesa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW0rsKayU8k

[visual rover]

https://uboat.net/allies/ships/dutch.htm

Here you can serach
Netherlands Naval forces🇳🇱 in world war 2

The netherlands navy submarines “O-21 and Zwaardvisch” has successes
two times they can destroyed german u-boats

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1833542950284104122

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1939, HMS Oxley became the first Royal Navy submarine lost during WWII. It was reported that the sub sank due to an accidental explosion. It was not until the 1950s that the truth was revealed. HMS Oxley had been misidentified as a German U-boat and sunk by HMS Triton.

Twitter · Sep 10, 2024, 4:27 PM

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNNRJ9l6yAE

[manic latch]

@tough quail @shrewd pecan

IS-7 still going

https://fixvx.com/YPasholok/status/1833729564024897791

[tough quail]

pike gang never dies

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm6_kRHhtn8

[mental tapir]

BUFF is forever

[subtle prawn]

At this point, I wonder if it'll be the KC-135 or the B-52 that'll be the last one remaining between the old as hell USAF planes

[shrewd pecan]

B-52 probably since the KC-135 has a actual replacement even if its troubled

[manic latch]

Fren

[autumn sorrel]

Ngl, I love the Tu-95 more, purely bc of it propeller shaft

[mental tapir]

No Xi'an H-6? 😢

[desert agate]

H-6 is literally a TU-16

[autumn sorrel]

And it is more medium bomber than true heavy bomber

[manic latch]

China doesn't have heavy bomber yeah

Voices: But Krem H-6 is considered heavy

Krem: Shut

[manic latch]

https://x.com/Tank_Archives/status/1834234059515458004?t=4n2MHAD9hYJe79DXVmrG1Q&s=19

Tank Archives (@Tank_Archives) on X

#OTD in 1932 the Germans ordered a second Vickers artillery tractor. The layout (front transmission, rear engine) inspired all future German tanks until 1945 and some elements like the track links were copied wholesale. #tanks #history

Twitter · Sep 12, 2024, 2:14 PM

[autumn sorrel]

And Il-28 is consider light bomber

[runic ermine]

It's the anniversary of the Winged Hussars

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna#:~:text=At around 6%3A00 pm,%2C the "Winged Hussars".

[ripe seal]

Polish army was brave in that battle

[manic fractal]

Ijn Watarase is fake or real for real life ?

[subtle prawn]

She is based on a real design, but was not constructed

[ripe seal]

BP girl

[somber knoll]

Speaking of Fremantle, what is the most displacement capacity it can take for ships to berth? both merchant and naval variants

[manic latch]

She based on a improved Agano class design

[manic fractal]

I see

[maiden citrus]

[eternal veldt]

Lookouts in the German battlecruiser had watched with dread as the masts of what could only be a very large enemy ship crested over the northwest horizon. Now Rodney used a signal light to ask:

What ship?

Vice Admiral Lütjens knew he would have to flee rather than fight. To buy time, Gneisenau flashed back that she was the British cruiser Emerald, creating enough confusion for her to escape at 32 knots, faster by far than the comparatively elderly Rodney. As Gneisenau showed the British battleship a clean pair of heels, she signalled her nearby tanker, the Uckermark, to also leave the scene with utmost speed.

Gneisenau departed so swiftly her rudder damaged one of the Chilean Reefer lifeboats.7 Lt Wells-Cole had a clear view from one of the 6-inch gunnery director positions and ‘saw the shadowy Gneisenau pushing off.’

Run.

[desert agate]

as large as you can fit within a length of 350m and a beam of 46m

the inner harbour is more than deep enough for any vessel to enter, the only restriction to length is the wharfs, which max out at 646m (longer than can actually fit in the port without reversing) and a draft of 14.5m (harbour master can make exceptions for deeper drafts)

A Nimitz could fit but it would be tight, not that it would ever dock in the civilian port with the military port being literally right there

[wintry moat]

When was this?

Rodney almost had Gnies?

[fading bobcat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQDn6Nbyzc&t=991s

[fading bobcat]

The ugly sisters where hunting for HX convoys. I think it was HX114 where Gneisenau had spotted Rodney.

[wintry moat]

ah ok

[fading bobcat]

they were under orders not to tackle any convoys that was accompanied by a capital ship - a sensible precaution as it would take only a few large calibre shells in the 'wrong' place to put them in serious danger as they had no friendly ports to run to.

[wintry moat]

Cool

my friend was posing a hypothetical of Gneis and Scharn V. Rodney once

[fading bobcat]

Rodney had a higher gun elevation

[wintry moat]

didnt know it was closer than i had expected

[fading bobcat]

I believe there was an instance where Ramillies had guarded 41 merchant ships alone, with the ugly sisters not wanting to engage due to there being a capital ship.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLw_UdCLMEc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5FP37kmXdQ

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLhgeJLFtlY

[ripe seal]

Resources, territories, colonies and economic dominance

That's what Britain and Germany fought for

Others had their own reasons

France was Britain's ally, Austo-Hungary had political issues with Serbia

[eternal veldt]

This is the Chilean Reefer incident.

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/SPhEiTEH2KU?si=6ps_eWmdC277mfFp

[timber linden]

https://tenor.com/view/destroying-the-school-bus-metal-mashers-woohoo-oh-yeah-scrap-yard-gif-21773220

She is a fitting image for the nation that she represents

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1834772460933464385

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

When a U.S. patrol reached Nagasaki after the Japanese surrender in 1945, they were surprised to be met by retired 82-year-old Marine Edward Zillig. Zillig had served with Admiral Dewey aboard USS Olympia before settling in Japan in the 1920s. He survived the atomic blast because

Twitter · Sep 14, 2024, 1:53 AM

[somber knoll]

that is quite adequate. I thought it was a bit smaller.

I keep thinking of how civilian merchant marine vessels keep increasing in size.

[desert agate]

Main issue is capacity

The port was built over 150 years ago and Perth is increasingly on track to overtake Brisbane as Australia’s 3rd largest city (ignoring Brisbane satellite cities)
The proposal to build a new outer harbour has seen stiff resistance and who knows whether or not it’ll go ahead

The inner harbour isn’t quite at capacity yet but it’ll need a supplement or expansion soon

[fading bobcat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4xSdJJKE8&t=1727s

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AQdxOtrn9Y

[random mountain]

@spring briar I am of the requiring of thy assistance

Do u know any large French bb designs from ww1 larger then the Lyon class

Roughly equivalent to the Italian 16inch quad BBs

[spring briar]

there were some mentions in the fleet programs of an "A21"
a ship of 40k tonnes

probably armed with 450's

[random mountain]

I was looking for all the large bb proposals in ww1

And I noticed only France and Germany (sort of) lacked any

[spring briar]

Germany has a bunch iirc

L21's

[random mountain]

Russia has the 16-16inch BBs, Italy has their quads, the rn has incomp and their 18inch qe proposal designs, us has Tillmans, ijn had zipang and Austria had their 8 16.5inch BBs

[random mountain]

Well ya, but maybe it’s just everyone else having such big toys

That the Germans seem “sane” by comparison

Like 6 16inch guns on a bc

Or 8 16.5inch on a few bb/bc designs

Sure it’s like the Austrian ones but the difference is Germany has a lot more bb experience so u think they would try something different

Now with the French BBs with the 45cm guns that gives them something even if I can’t find a good image of them (tho the gun is real)

[torn dome]

do we have a Battle-class destroyers?

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/59x32k-SljE?si=7aBNhzxC1MDHUfPH

[willow jungle]

Ice breakers back then we're armed like Destroyers. But without the torpedo tubes.

[subtle prawn]

None

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/O70ye_d1lzM?si=5KqoqClHMPuDZpGt

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/pumNRrmQy6w?si=r1u1aryb6igqgV7-

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL7HrFW3dNc

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/ybx3fypGyg0?si=WqCrjpATccIrsQ8q

[runic ermine]

Reminds me of how in ww2, Italian Falco biplanes could outperform British monoplanes

[unkempt sedge]

Well you could consider the CR. 42 as probably one of the contenders for best biplane fighter ever built. You have others though like the Gladiator and I-153.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1835357056909423029

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1944, USS Shangri-La (CV-38) was commissioned. One of the few U.S. Navy ships honoring a fictional location, the name was chosen after FDR slyly told reporters that the Doolittle Raid had been launched from "Shangri-La"—the secret paradise in the novel LOST HORIZON.

Twitter · Sep 15, 2024, 4:36 PM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1835320495819936237

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1942, the Japanese sub I-19 fired one of the most damaging torpedo salvos in the history of submarine warfare. The 6 torpedo spread hit and sank the carrier USS Wasp and the destroyer USS O'Brien while severely damaging the battleship USS North Carolina.

Twitter · Sep 15, 2024, 2:11 PM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1835152982880477427

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD 1976, an F-14 skidded off the deck of USS John F. Kennedy near Scotland. The crew ejected but the jet plunged to a depth of 1850 feet. Fearing that the Soviets would scoop up the Tomcat and its AIM-54 Phoenix missiles, the Navy recovered the plane after an intensive search.

Twitter · Sep 15, 2024, 3:05 AM

[hardy spade]

Cutaway for a Lion class-Hybrid Battlecarrier drawn in 1941

On 8 January 1941, Rear-Admiral Bruce Fraser, Third Sea Lord and Controller of the Navy, asked the DNC to work up a hybrid aircraft carrier based on the Lion-class hull. Two months later, a sketch design was presented for consideration, but it was not well regarded by the participants. This design retained all three main gun turrets and the flight deck was deemed too short to be useful.[23] A revised version with only the two forward turrets retained was requested and was ready in July. In this design, the displacement ranged from 44,750 long tons (45,470 t) at standard load and 51,000 long tons (52,000 t) at deep load. The design's dimensions included a waterline length of 800 feet (243.8 m), a beam of 115 feet (35.1 m) and a draught of 29 feet 6 inches (8.99 m). The flight deck was 500 feet (152.4 m) long and had a width of 73 feet (22.3 m). The machinery was unchanged, but another 600 long tons (610 t) of oil increased her endurance to 14,750 nautical miles (27,320 km; 16,970 mi) at 10 knots. The hybrid's armament consisted of six 16-inch guns in two triple turrets, sixteen 5.25-inch guns and eight octuple 2-pounder mounts. Twelve fighters and two torpedo bombers could be carried. The Director of Naval Gunnery's assessment was that "The functions and requirements of carriers and of surface gun platforms are entirely incompatible ... the conceptions of these designs ... is evidently the result of an unresolved contest between a conscious acceptance of aircraft and a subconscious desire for a 1914 Fleet ... these abortions are the results of a psychological maladjustment. The necessary readjustments should result from a proper re-analysis of the whole question, what would be a balanced fleet in 1945, 1950 or 1955?" The design was rejected.

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0HgKPUnRxk

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1835486344618909709

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD 1944, U.S. Marines landed on Peleliu during the Mariana and Palau Islands campaign. U.S. forces were expected to secure Peleliu and its airfield within four days but fierce Japanese resistance caused the battle to drag on for over two months before the Americans prevailed.

Twitter · Sep 16, 2024, 1:10 AM

[vale condor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoQpVeY2Oss

[frozen kestrel]

Quick question: What B-17 variant would've been most commonly used in Europe in 1944?

[autumn sorrel]

A mix of F and G model

Most likely be upgraded F model flying with newer G, which basically incorporate all of previous modification to the F model into factory production.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNu2QkyZ2Vc

[narrow rover]

My favorite theory being: the whole thing is a fabrication by its claimed inventor

[gusty spire]

Didn't expected the history channel to be about ships.

[remote monolith]

well this is a naval oriented server

shouldn't be much a surprise there's a metric shitton of talks about naval ships, tactics and warfare in this place

[gusty spire]

Yeah that's true but it says 'history'. That's where i got confused.

[autumn sorrel]

Well, we once have a collective hissy fit over the efficiency of ship armor scheme that somehow devolved into real life politics over the course of 6hr, it depend on the mood

Or was that over gun caliber?

[remote monolith]

oh about that, a lot of the regulars are also mil enthusiasts so the topic often strays to modern ships too

[gusty spire]

Politics are allowed huh?

[autumn sorrel]

No

[remote monolith]

nah not really, modern politics are off-limits

talking about the hardwares are fine

[autumn sorrel]

At least modern days politics, you are free to diss anyone before GWOT but never go full Wehrboo here

[gusty spire]

Wym by hardware?

[remote monolith]

tanks, artillery system, drones, warships

[autumn sorrel]

Tanks, plane, missile,... don't leak stuff that still confidential on here, we already have them, it is not needed

[remote monolith]

those are free game so long as you don't really discuss their political contexts

[gusty spire]

You can go full commie, con or lib?

[autumn sorrel]

In certain extent but we rather you keep it to yourself

[gusty spire]

It's not like i-

[remote monolith]

just keep out personal political views on modern items for the most part and try to maintain objective views on historical ones

[gusty spire]

That's what i usually do anyway.

[gusty spire]

Oh, like how War Thunder players do? 💀

[autumn sorrel]

Well, here we leak ship armor scheme but unless you plan to build 16inch gun battleship, it is only for educational

[gusty spire]

Also, anything before 2000's or something can be posted as historical right?

I take that as a yes.

[runic ermine]

Yes. No current politics but you can post equipment used in current conflicts if you aren't political about it

Example: Challenger 2 with anti drone cage

[rapid junco]

I was watching "Rebel Rabbit" (1949) when i saw these two vehicles

This Stuart chassi one
Could it be a sort of "command unit"?

[autumn sorrel]

That's prop, Stuart "command" variant remove the turret

[rapid junco]

The answer was less complicated than i expected

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7nXaJA6ero

[gusty spire]

That awfully looks like an AWP.

[tribal mortar]

Do you know your waifus?

[maiden citrus]

Quite a few there

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2024/09/16/legal-struggle-over-ss-united-states-drags-on

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi-sKL3KilA

[spring briar]

Neat

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1835708622258520298

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1985, veteran stunt pilot and aerial cameraman Art Scholl died during the filming of TOP GUN when his Pitts S-2 camera plane failed to recover from a spin and plunged into the Pacific Ocean. The credits of TOP GUN state that the film is dedicated to the memory of Scholl.

Twitter · Sep 16, 2024, 3:53 PM

[unkempt sedge]

FFS just make it an artificial reef already.

[tribal mortar]

Went to see best chocolate girl today

[wintry moat]

I've been as well

Its super cool

Alabama, right?

[tribal mortar]

Yup

[timber linden]

https://tenor.com/view/drop-that-broken-car-metal-mashers-scrap-yard-wrecking-yard-national-geographic-gif-21773219

[narrow rover]

Sweet home

[manic latch]

@shrewd pecan it's over

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/kendall-new-re-imagined-ngad-cost-less-f-35/

https://tenor.com/view/obi-wan-kenobi-dark-side-darkness-balance-force-gif-26716934

End of high-cost

[undone zodiac]

is this right(bismarck)

[alpine onyx]

Semi

For the 105s it was 50% C/31 and 50% C/37 mounts

[frozen kestrel]

That one big spreadsheet's got this for the secondary (Twin 150mm SK C/28 Prototype)

[undone zodiac]

theres a spreadsheet?

[frozen kestrel]

As for the AA guns, that's gonna be the Twin 105mm AA (SK C/33 na)

[frozen kestrel]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-mzOsoYnYnQmaB9dN3RhaWO-SPgnFLKcHxYKPKIPIzw/edit?gid=0#gid=0

For all of your historically accurate equipment needs

[undone zodiac]

bless

[frozen kestrel]

Yo, mods. Can we get this pinned for future reference?

[manic latch]

Stop

I'm sure Bismarck never used those

@undone zodiac Oi don't trust the list

I'm sure these armored 105mms was for H-39

[undone zodiac]

wasnt the one I had on the one

[manic latch]

This is correct yes

Not enclosed 105mm

[frozen kestrel]

Bismarck had four enclosed 105mm turrets aft of the smokestack

The four forward 105mm turrets didn't have the roof thing

[manic latch]

Ah ok

Yeah forward ones don't have the shield

[frozen kestrel]

I'm not really sure why the Kriegsmarine did that, but I guess it was a bit of an experiment

[manic latch]

But

There is no /33 here

While one you showed is /33

[frozen kestrel]

If I remember correctly, on Tirpitz all of the 105mm turrets had the roof thing

[undone zodiac]

im pretty sure its 105 sk c/33 even on wiki

[manic latch]

Think I'm confusing gun vs mount name

Gun is /33?

[undone zodiac]

was just confused on secondary gun since the purple one looked like the correct one

[frozen kestrel]

Hang on, I'll check NavWeaps

[manic latch]

Ok yeah

Gun is /33

While shield is /37

[frozen kestrel]

Gold one just has the rangefinders

Other than that, there's not really much difference as far as I'm aware

[manic latch]

While /31 has no shield

[frozen kestrel]

I'm sorry what the fuck

[manic latch]

Ye

[frozen kestrel]

why does it tilt like that