Especially with the engine basically being tapped out from the start
#history
maiden citrus
it's already a plane where it's marginally faster in level flight only and if it dives it tears itself to shreds, so still fragile
junior trench
Operational losses for Zeros due to the planes just wearing out was positively painful
maiden citrus
yup
mental tapir
The Imperial Japanese were just pretty hobbled by their inability to produce powerful engines at scale huh
maiden citrus
it can't follow you lol
eternal veldt
Dont dogfight with it
mental tapir
Like the tactic of cutting weight which worked so well for the Mozzie could only carry the Japanese fighters so far
maiden citrus
anything above slow dogfighting speeds it became a brick because if it turned
rip
I think it was like 200mph+
mental tapir
If a zero is on you, just dive
I wonder if this tactic is recommended in WT too
spring briar
USN 8” Mk.21 mod 3 vs Japanese 6” homogeneous plate at 35° and velocities from 1350-1500 fps
maiden citrus
richy with the penetration
desert agate
RAAF Spitfires and even kittyhawks regularly outperformed zeroes over Northern Australia and PNG even at lower altitudes
77sqn was engaged from almost the start of Japans attacks on the Far North up until the very end of the SWPTO and never lost more planes than it shot down including multiple zeroes
Caldwell personally shot got 6.5 kills against Japanese aircraft mostly in his Spitfire, which despite not being the majority of his kills (the rest scored in North Africa) was regardless an exceptional performance
subtle prawn
Twitter
mental tapir
frozen kestrel
https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1806058536452899148
this is fucking hilarious
desert agate
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-27/japanese-world-war-ii-bomb-discovered-in-darwin/104025694 Japanese World War II bomb discovered, then detonated, in Darwin Harbour near CBD
terse mesa
Yeah, best to detonate it since it could be potentially unstable.
wise vessel
whys it called balls 8
twin oxide
I mean it’s better the being called a big ugly fat fellow
subtle prawn
prime river
fierce sparrow
hasty bramble
I think I have some photos from 9 years ago of when I visited the HMS Belfast in London. And a few from 2019 when I visited the USS Lexington in Corpus Christi. Might post em here later.
Belka... sigh, here we go again.
remote monolith
https://fxtwitter.com/ZalogaSteven/status/1806404505434575030
false advertisement this thing doesn't look like it'll nuke itelf 7 times
maiden citrus
a design I like
manic latch
It's the most expensive and protected MBT design ever
She has 2 engines too
Main weakness was extremely weak rear armor and barrel cannot look at the rear
Tho tank rears are weak anyway
shrewd pecan
seems like a ergonomic nightmare
bitter sapphire
Soviets make a tank with good crew ergos impossible challenge
runic ermine
Soviets make a tank with good crew ergos impossible challenge
I honestly think that they didn't really care
manic latch
seems like a ergonomic nightmare
It's fine actually
2 crew in capsule rear cabin
So they are at safest location during frontal hit and ammo won't damage them
shrewd pecan
turret probably had to be removed
shrewd pecan
when gaijin runs out of material
manic latch
Wooden mockup exists only
Likely would have worst side depression angle
Further you look back worse angle you have
Hmm could be useful on hill tho
manic latch
seems incredibly easy to just barrel and breach it
Low tier Maus curse
Tho unlike Maus it can run away at least
frozen kestrel
Twitter
spring briar
manic latch
Curious box
frozen kestrel
Credit where credit is due, that was put together with incredibly skillful craftsmanship
primal wave
when were some of the earliest naval air planes, and when did ships start having anti air guns?
spring briar
Credit where credit is due, that was put together with incredibly skillful craft...
can't be certain of that unless you can inspect it physically
runic ermine
Credit where credit is due, that was put together with incredibly skillful craft...
German engineering
spring briar
don't
runic ermine
don't
I'm not. I'm just stating that the Germans had great engineering but over engineered things at times
runic ermine
no, you're furthering a bullshit myth
But you gotta admit that Zimmerit was over engineering
spring briar
Zimmerit is not really what I would think about
runic ermine
Zimmerit is not really what I would think about
I'd also think about the Krummlauf, the interweaved road wheels on the tiger 1, the idea of the maus
grave ravine
Good engineering is not having to file components to fit
junior trench
Over engineering is when you have a job that requires 500 hours of life and use a part with 2000 hours.
What Germany did was bad engineering
remote monolith
Is Zimmerit even a type of overengineering? Its so something that simply adds a Coat of paste to the tank
junior trench
And under engineering
remote monolith
That's just unnecesary addition at best
runic ermine
Is Zimmerit even a type of overengineering? Its so something that simply adds a ...
The reason why was a stretch
remote monolith
Overengineering is when you go through a lot of hoops and complications to pull of something that can be done with much simpler ways like, IDK making doors that fold on itself rather than swinging normally
Zimmerit was just Germany being paranoid of something that realistically wasnt a particularly big trouble in the first place
runic ermine
Zimmerit was just Germany being paranoid of something that realistically wasnt a...
That's what I ment by a stretch
supple sandal
Overengineering
have 20 more moving part in a piece of machinery that only need 3
spring briar
that's bad engineering
supple sandal
that's bad engineering
That is ww2 Germany engineering
These mf ration papers
The more I learn about ww2, the more of a miracle that Germany even have some success in the first place
Damn I fumble the grammar of the sentence
spring briar
The more I learn about ww2, the more of a miracle that Germany even have some su...
in that case study the allied situation a bit more : )
subtle prawn
The more I learn about ww2, the more of a miracle that Germany even have some su...
Blame that partially on early war incompetence by the Allies
Twitter
runic ermine
The more I learn about ww2, the more of a miracle that Germany even have some su...
There's a lot of reasons depending on who they were fighting
But mainly allied incompetence
bitter sapphire
Overengineering
have 20 more moving part in a piece of machinery that only nee...
stares in H&K G11
runic ermine
And in Japan's case it was because they were fighting a country who had sword battalions due to a firearms shortage
And limited tanks
And almost no anti tank weapons
bitter sapphire
The more I learn about ww2, the more of a miracle that Germany even have some su...
good low level tactical competence, lacking in pretty much every other department
runic ermine
good low level tactical competence, lacking in pretty much every other departmen...
Agreed. Fall of France is a prime example
bitter sapphire
And almost no anti tank weapons
in the defense of at least the last two there was very little armor on the scene until the Americans arrived
runic ermine
in the defense of at least the last two there was very little armor on the scene...
That's what I mean with China. They mainly had tanks purchased from other countries
bitter sapphire
they did actually have very good combined arms and armor tactics in the early 30s when the china wars first kicked off but with both China's lack of armor and the Chinese landscape not really being forgiving for armored ops the specialization was lost quick
runic ermine
they did actually have very good combined arms and armor tactics in the early 30...
I also read that infantry armor coordination was poor
runic ermine
subtle prawn
runic ermine
What's what?
subtle prawn
River-class DDG(H) infographic
runic ermine
River-class DDG(H) infographic
Nice
subtle prawn
Image form
cunning salmon
desert agate
when were some of the earliest naval air planes, and when did ships start having...
pretty much the moment military airships and aircraft start to become a thing in the late 1900s-1910s
as for the earliest naval aircraft, arguably the very first was the Farman MF.11 which had a dedicated seaplane variant
runic ermine
Image form
My question is how are they supposed to replace frigates?
chilly osprey
Because they plan to build fifteen of these frigates to replace 12 older frigates.
And they're much more capable ships than the older Halifax-class in basically every regard.
runic ermine
Because they plan to build fifteen of these frigates to replace 12 older frigate...
So smaller but more numerous and better armed correct?
chilly osprey
No, the River's will be about twice the displacement of the Halifax-class.
runic ermine
No, the River's will be about twice the displacement of the *Halifax*-class.
But aren't they destoryers?
chilly osprey
They're replacing the old frigate fleet with a larger number of larger and better equipped frigates, to enhance the capability of the RCN's surface fleet overall rather than just sustain the limited capabilities they had before.
chilly osprey
But aren't they destoryers?
The RCN is calling them destroyers, but they are very squarely a frigate design.
desert agate
But aren't they destoryers?
the type 26 is a frigate
runic ermine
The RCN is calling them destroyers, but they are very squarely a frigate design.
Oh so it's one of THOSE situations
chilly osprey
In modern ship designs, destroyers are typically much larger and more heavily armed than frigates, with more capable sensors suites, as they specialize into long range area air warfare.
Modern frigates are descended from the destroyer escorts of WWII.
runic ermine
Modern frigates are descended from the destroyer escorts of WWII.
Kinda confusing tbh
desert agate
in the british numbering scheme
20/30 is a frigate
40 is a destroyer
80 is both at once
chilly osprey
Though there was a period from the 50s to the mid-70s where the French and Americans used frigate to describe a class of intermediate ship between destroyers and cruisers. But the Americans dropped that system in 1975.
chilly osprey
Kinda confusing tbh
Blame the British.
Actually, it may have been an RCN officer. But they decided to start calling the twin screw corvette designs 'frigates' during WWII and that lead to all these small convoy escorts being called frigates too.
To be quite honest, IMO the system the Americans and French used post-war made more sense in general - by the ship has long since sailed on that one.
upper oar
Question if right after the Japanese attacked the American and British positions in the pacific the British pacific fleet Dutch pacific fleet and American asiatic fleet gathered together as one large task force could they have effectively repelled Japanese naval movements and landings in many of the island chains? And how would it have changed the war?
autumn sorrel
Question if right after the Japanese attacked the American and British positions...
No
Not to mention the difficulty to command a multinational forces like that, the fact that they are facing 1941 IJN with all of its big fleet units outside of Kido Butai are focus in East Indies Campaign have way more in term of tonnage and capabilities than any forces that Dutch, American and UK stationed there.
And ABDA command also face the challenge of locating IJN fleet. IJN pretty much have the initiative and they pick where to fight and where to land while ABDA have defend entire East Indies and have to second guess where the Japanese would attack.
Don't forget that Kido Butai can also swing down after return from Pearl Harbor to finish what left of ABDA that manage to survive the Central Force
upper oar
That’s true but you don’t think for example the added carriers cruisers battleships and destroyers could’ve prevented the invasion of the Philippines? Mainly the British carriers I suppose I wouldn’t expect them to win against the Japanese forces in the region but maybe stall long enough to for reinforcements from the US pacific fleet?
autumn sorrel
That would require the British to send their Carriers there before the Fall of Singapore. I will refrain from the absolute idiocy that was sending PoW and Repulse with no aircover but despite how big the RN were, they are stretch between multiple fronts.
And even with Carrier add into the equation, they won't stall the Fall of SEA long enough for US Pacific fleet to ready.
upper oar
That’s fair and yeah the sinking of the PoW and Repulse were tragic and avoidable battleships should always be escorted by cruisers and destroyers to help deal with subs and aircraft no idea what the thought was behind that. In fact who ordered them to go out alone?
autumn sorrel
It take US 5 month to ready the Dolittle Raid, and even before Midway, US Navy primarily use their Carrier in Hit and Run attack, there won't be any US force available for the kind of decisive battle that will stall IJN advance in SEA.
upper oar
I suppose that’s true I just always think about how many problems there were with the allied forces early in the pacific and how things could’ve gone if they went differently the loss of the PoW and Repulse the boise having to split off from the asiatic fleet because of a freaking coral reef ofc one of the only radar ships there
autumn sorrel
I mean, if I were in command of ABDA, best thing I could do is to allow my sub to hunt down Japan merchant fleet. US Sub might be a bit impotent early in the war but Dutch sub was relatively effective in their job.
But ABDA also suffer from chronic difference in priority for each of its smaller command.
upper oar
What would you have done with your surface units if you were in charge? Pulled all the way back to Australia or tried to stall the Japanese like the US asiatic did well until they were mostly destroyed
autumn sorrel
Dutch have to defend their holding in East Indies and support KNIL forces while British are more occupy with Burma and Malaysia campaign. US and Aussie only care if IJN can't get past Papua New Guinea to attack Australia.
Only saving grace is that McArthur wasn't there to interfere with ADBA command much.
autumn sorrel
What would you have done with your surface units if you were in charge? Pulled a...
Burn everything, scorch earth every oil field, every airport that I can't protect. Pull back units to defend key locations and start withdrawing men and supply to the East
But then I will immediately get sacked bc I didn't protect Singapore or helping the British, or how I fail to protect Dutch "second homeland".
ABDA was not only facing IJN, it also facing a really stupid politic battle of its own.
upper oar
Scorched earth isn’t a bad idea especially given realistically there’s no way the US forces in the region could contend with the Japanese forces themselves and I mean tbf if I recall correctly all the destroyers were outdated and the only real heavy fire power the US had there was the Houston and boise which still couldn’t contend with IJN battleships and obviously couldn’t contend with IJN carrier divisions
autumn sorrel
I mean, there is reasonable chance for KNIL and RAF to inflict heavy damage on IJN Battleship and Carrier with the right condition but it basically an impossible battle to win
upper oar
Oh yeah RAF and RN might win battles but they couldn’t defeat the IJN alone
desert agate
That’s true but you don’t think for example the added carriers cruisers battlesh...
what carriers
in late 1941 there is not a single otherwise engaged carrier in the entire Royal Navy
and even if they could scrape together a handful, they wouldnt stand a chance against Kido Butai
after the destruction of the US Pacific Fleet there is not a single force in the Pacific capable of preventing the Japanese advance, even if the Allies had made all of the right decisions, all it does is delay the inevitable
if MacArthur hadn't allowed his entire air force to be destroyed on the ground, it wouldn't have prevented the fall of the Philippines
if the British had called upon their air cover to save PoW and Repulse, it wouldnt have stopped the fall of Malaya, although it would have delayed things
autumn sorrel
How long till ours next "McArthur Bashing" session?
upper oar
The illustrious was still there I think at a minimum and seriously I will never get over the sinking of the PoW and Repulse what a waste of resources and lives
autumn sorrel
if the British had called upon their air cover to save PoW and Repulse, it would...
Keyword here, "delayed"
alpine onyx
How long till ours next "McArthur Bashing" session?
3, 2, 1...
desert agate
Lusty was messing around in the West-Indian Ocean and she was worthless against a coordinated Japanese air attack
desert agate
Keyword here, "delayed"
if PoW had gotten into range and intercepted the landings in Northern Malaya, it would have caused considerable delays but the IJA was already advancing through Thailand at that exact moment, and the forced in Malaya were wholly inadequate
upper oar
Really? I thought the British left her over in the south east pacific at that time since they pulled a bunch of the rest of the pacific fleet back
desert agate
only a single division was properly trained and equipped on the whole peninsular
autumn sorrel
3, 2, 1...
I mean, is there even anything new we can bring up about the guy? Unless someone come in here with full propaganda about him, I pretty sure majority of this channel hate his guts.
upper oar
There were a decent number of surface engagements that US asiatic forces got involved in where having two battleships would’ve been a massive difference or even when the US moved more of the pacific fleet there
autumn sorrel
if PoW had gotten into range and intercepted the landings in Northern Malaya, it...
Would it allow a longer time frame for British to evacuate their force from Singapore?
desert agate
Really? I thought the British left her over in the south east pacific at that ti...
she was in the UK until Feb when she moved to South Africa before moving North for the Indian Ocean Raid
desert agate
Would it allow a longer time frame for British to evacuate their force from Sing...
there would be no evacuation from Singapore
upper oar
Depending on how much the Japanese move things around to move more forces it could have allowed more time for asiatic fleet or what’s left of it to relocate to Australia as well
runic ermine
Question if right after the Japanese attacked the American and British positions...
The thing that happened irl was much more effective
autumn sorrel
there would be no evacuation from Singapore
Oh right, can't lose face even if it meant a possible military disaster
obtuse palm
Lusty was messing around in the West-Indian Ocean and she was worthless against ...
It was actually Indomitable trying to planes to Singapore/DEI along with Indomitable right?
IIRC Lusty at the time is still repairing from collision damage between her and Formidable
desert agate
Depending on how much the Japanese move things around to move more forces it cou...
if ABDA survived with more assets I cant see it making any real difference in the long run
desert agate
Oh right, can't lose face even if it meant a possible military disaster
its less that and more that the entire prewar planning of multiple nations hinged upon the security of Singapore
evacuating Singapore and leaving it to the Japanese would be the highest betrayal to the Indian colonial government as well as the governments of Australia and New Zealand
runic ermine
evacuating Singapore and leaving it to the Japanese would be the highest betraya...
Also to the people who lived there obviously
desert agate
and while the British internally believed that those countries should be left to their fates, regardless it was necessary to not make any overt moves to anger them as it would hurt British long term interests
upper oar
if ABDA survived with more assets I cant see it making any real difference in th...
I mean I feel like at the battle of the Solomons the Prince of wales and repulse alone would’ve made a substantial difference for one the hiei almost certainly would’ve been sunk instead of dmged possibly could’ve saved some allied ships as well
upper oar
IIRC Lusty at the time is still repairing from collision damage between her and ...
Right I almost forgot they had a collision
runic ermine
The thing that happened irl was much more effective
But what I ment here is this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalcanal_campaign
desert agate
I mean I feel like at the battle of the Solomons the Prince of wales and repulse...
if PoW and Repulse surived Malaya, they'd almost certainly be sent right back to the Atlantic/Mediterranean until the British fleet arrived in force in 1945
autumn sorrel
evacuating Singapore and leaving it to the Japanese would be the highest betraya...
Hmm, I guess leaving thousand of soldier and countless civilian to their fate to achieve political victory is a really cold and calculating move
obtuse palm
Yeah, the British were a bit short on BBs during this time
runic ermine
Yeah, the British were a bit short on BBs during this time
And also had to split the ones they did have to fight the other axis powers
obtuse palm
if PoW and Repulse surived Malaya, they'd almost certainly be sent right back to...
Well they'd probably go through IO raid first before getting sent back
desert agate
Churchill sincerely believed the Australia and New Zealand were 'prunable' and could be abandoned, even if the British had promised to use Singapore as a lynchpin to ensure their security
upper oar
That’s a good point tbh British were super unlucky too during the war the way glorious was lost the way hood was lost I mean yikes I still stand by the fact that PoW and Repulse’s losses were absolutely avoidable and there was no reason not to have escorted them properly
runic ermine
That’s a good point tbh British were super unlucky too during the war the way gl...
And the disaster in France in 1940
desert agate
escorts were of little concern the issue was that no attempt was made to call the RAAF squadron assigned to provide them with air cover
runic ermine
As well as Norway and early battles against italy
obtuse palm
That’s a good point tbh British were super unlucky too during the war the way gl...
Just basically no ships available, but something had to be done
desert agate
Norway was a strategic victory for the Allies
upper oar
escorts were of little concern the issue was that no attempt was made to call th...
Wait they did have assigned air cover and they didn’t call them?! I thought they weren’t assigned air cover or proper cruiser escorts
desert agate
the Luftwaffe that was meant to gain air superiority over Britain was shot down over Norway, the Kriegsmarine that was meant to invade Britain was in a small fjord in the North and Oslo harbour
runic ermine
the Luftwaffe that was meant to gain air superiority over Britain was shot down ...
That one battle where Germany lost 8 DDs right?
desert agate
Wait they did have assigned air cover and they didn’t call them?! I thought they...
453sqn RAAF was assigned to provide air cover and wasnt called upon until well after it was too late
obtuse palm
That one battle where Germany lost 8 DDs right?
10 DDs
desert agate
cruisers would do nothing against that Japanese attack, the RAAF would
upper oar
453sqn RAAF was assigned to provide air cover and wasnt called upon until well a...
Is there a reason? Was there a communication malfunction or something?
upper oar
cruisers would do nothing against that Japanese attack, the RAAF would
If I recall a lot of the aircraft the Japanese used in that attack were low flying torpedo bombers I’ll take aa guns for that it’ll always help I mean look at what the laffey did with aa by itself and it’s just a destroyer
desert agate
multiple reasons but one of them was that the admiral in command of the operation did not believe that battleships at sea could be sunk by aircraft
upper oar
Wait really? He didn’t think they could be sunk so he didn’t call for the escort provided for exactly that reason?
desert agate
If I recall a lot of the aircraft the Japanese used in that attack were low flyi...
British AA in 1941 was atrocious, Laffey was a well equipped, well commanded ship backed up by years of experience, the British had none of that
obtuse palm
the Luftwaffe that was meant to gain air superiority over Britain was shot down ...
I thought the losses weren't that severe that it crippled the Luftwaffe? A loss of 260 planes throughout the campaign doesn't seem especially high for said campaign, 3 months for 260 lost planes, vs BoB which was a magnitude worse in a similar time frame. The Kriegsmarine got (rightfully) mauled, and tbh should be expected
desert agate
Wait really? He didn’t think they could be sunk so he didn’t call for the escort...
it was the captain of Repulse, not the Admiral on PoW who called upon the air cover, and they didnt arrive until after both ships had gone under
if called upon the moment radar contact was made, 453sqn would have saved the ships
upper oar
British AA in 1941 was atrocious, Laffey was a well equipped, well commanded shi...
I was under the impression that US aa was best then British then German then Japanese which was awful
desert agate
I thought the losses weren't that severe that it crippled the Luftwaffe? A loss ...
every plane the Germans lost was irreplaceable
desert agate
I was under the impression that US aa was best then British then German then Jap...
Japanese AA was considerably better than people make it out to be
upper oar
it was the captain of Repulse, not the Admiral on PoW who called upon the air co...
That’s tragic lost two major surface vessels and a large number of men for the overconfidence of one man
desert agate
British AA was considerably worse than people make it out to be
obtuse palm
HAA British worse than Japanese, LAA British was better
bitter sapphire
I thought the losses weren't that severe that it crippled the Luftwaffe? A loss ...
I'm in the opposite camp, maybe you could argue for the Luftwaffe losses but the idea that the kreigsmarine stood any chance at holding a channel crossing against the royal navy even at their highest state is comical.
upper oar
Seriously? Whenever I bring up aa with Japan people keep telling me it was almost a waste of time unless they had a full task force worth of it
desert agate
the Mediterranean fleet did an exercise in 1937 where a drone flew around the fleet for hours and didnt shoot it down, in fact the drone ran out of fuel before they shot it down
obtuse palm
I'm in the opposite camp, maybe you could argue for the Luftwaffe losses but th...
Oh of course lol, no one said Sea Lion was any way feasible
obtuse palm
Oh of course lol, no one said Sea Lion was any way feasible
The RN and the RAF would destroy the barges before they could even leave port
upper oar
I'm in the opposite camp, maybe you could argue for the Luftwaffe losses but th...
Depends if they got as lucky as they did with the Hood and just keep mag detonating every ship immediately they could lol
autumn sorrel
British AA was considerably worse than people make it out to be
I mean, using a late 19th century, despite upgrade, is still a late 19th century design
desert agate
HAA British worse than Japanese, LAA British was better
what AA fire control system did Britain have in 1941 that was in any way shape or form superior to the Japanese
bitter sapphire
Seriously? Whenever I bring up aa with Japan people keep telling me it was almos...
There were a few good guns but the very common double and triple 25s were useless in the aa role
desert agate
and what AA gun did the British have proliferated that was better than the Japanese
tawny lava
The thing with japanese AA is that they never had a decent medium caliber weapon
desert agate
because I can tell you I would rank the Japanese Type 96 well above a vickers .50
upper oar
There were a few good guns but the very common double and triple 25s were useles...
Ah okay that makes sense
tawny lava
It was all light or heavy
desert agate
the type 96 was not that bad of a weapon
it was not a great weapon by any means
but people make it out to be far worse than it actually was
obtuse palm
and what AA gun did the British have proliferated that was better than the Japan...
40 mm pom pom with new ammo is better than the Japanese 25 mm. Of course Vickers 0.5 in is like nothing against aircraft lol
bitter sapphire
Ah okay that makes sense
Their 127 could have been good but was crippled in aa performance by low train rate and bad loading speed specifically at high angles
desert agate
40 mm pom pom with new ammo is better than the Japanese 25 mm. Of course Vickers...
the 40mm pompom in 1941 had no tracer round
obtuse palm
And by 1941 most British ships had 20 mm Oerlikon (4)
desert agate
another reason for the loss of PoW and Repulse was the lack of tracers from the pompoms
bitter sapphire
The 10cm was very good but did not exist in sufficient numbers
desert agate
And by 1941 most British ships had 20 mm Oerlikon (4)
other than magazine capacity how does the oerlikon outperform a type 96
autumn sorrel
but people make it out to be far worse than it actually was
Tbf, it was compare a lot with Oerlikon in single mount and when in triple mount, with Bofors. There is no winning that competition
obtuse palm
other than magazine capacity how does the oerlikon outperform a type 96
RoF?
desert agate
again i note that the oerlikon is not supported by a robust and effective fire control system
the type 96 is
that fact alone makes it a more effective weapons system than anything the British were fielding in early 1942
desert agate
Tbf, it was compare a lot with Oerlikon in single mount and when in triple mount...
the issue is that there is no fair comparison
grave ravine
The Oerlikon doesn't have the range to really dissuade attacks
Only to make them cost more
desert agate
comparing it with the oerlikon is pointless because the type 96 massively outranges it, and it doctrinally is used completely differently, but comparing it with a bofors is also pointless because the round is almost twice as large, of course the bofors will win that fight
obtuse palm
The Oerlikon doesn't have the range to really dissuade attacks
Why you usually had 40 mm pom pom
tawny lava
Since so many knowledgeable people are in chat
obtuse palm
Sorry ping
desert agate
the pompom couldnt dissuade attacks because it had no tracer round
tawny lava
Did the japanese ever have a medium caliber AA weapon? Even in the works?
desert agate
it couldnt fire accurately because it had no tracer round
grave ravine
Did the japanese ever have a medium caliber AA weapon? Even in the works?
The 25mm
Was medium AA
desert agate
it couldnt even really out-range any comparable AA gun because it had no tracer round
and also because it was shit
autumn sorrel
the issue is that there is no fair comparison
True but outside of Chicago Piano, the Allied really don't have an equivalent to type 96 in term of doctrine either.
desert agate
and had low muzzle velocity
desert agate
True but outside of Chicago Piano, the Allied really don't have an equivalent to...
which is why there is no fair comparison
grave ravine
True but outside of Chicago Piano, the Allied really don't have an equivalent to...
Bofors and Chicago Piano are both a fair bit heavier than Type 96, though in turn they are significantly more capable
autumn sorrel
Did the japanese ever have a medium caliber AA weapon? Even in the works?
They reverse engineering the bofors but never in mass production
desert agate
a quad mount type 96 would be a fair comparison to the Piano but there was no quad mount type 96 again making it a pointless comparison
grave ravine
The Chicago Piano is another weapon that's been kinda unfairly tarnished, obviously the Bofors is just better, but the Chicago Piano was by no means a bad gun in 1941
desert agate
Maka made me a Chicago Piano defender
maiden citrus
I sense
obtuse palm
it couldnt fire accurately because it had no tracer round
Tracer rounds were used in the during the Battle of Crete but didn't make it to POW and Repulse fyi
maiden citrus
gods greatest Chicago Piano defender has arrived
it was rough years ago but like some other things people have mostly come around
desert agate
it was not a great weapon by any means
jsut realised i accidentally said the type 96 was a great weapon, edited to fix now oops
grave ravine
a quad mount type 96 would be a fair comparison to the Piano but there was no qu...
On a per barrel basis the quad Chicago Piano is significantly heavier than the triple Type 96
desert agate
Tracer rounds were used in the during the Battle of Crete but didn't make it to ...
British FCS for the pompom was a guy with a stick pointing at a plane
the British never developed a tachymetric FCS
like at all
grave ravine
The 1.1" gun itself was like twice the weight of the Type 96 gun alone
desert agate
the Japanese developed one and post-war American analysts considered it quite good
autumn sorrel
I still laugh at the fact that a Maxim gun in late 1900s somehow make it into British main AA armament in early ww2
maiden citrus
it was a great weapon that had practically all of its problems that gave it a bad reputation fixed before it was fully replaced, including being one of the first to have a good off mount director and exceptionally good shell fuses, it also had unique aiming capabilities, just the bofors is a much newer gun and much larger too
runic ermine
jsut realised i accidentally said the type 96 was a great weapon, edited to fix ...
Lol
It was an ok weapon
autumn sorrel
British FCS for the pompom was a guy with a stick pointing at a plane
I mean, you could say the same for the Type 96
obtuse palm
the British never developed a tachymetric FCS
That's HAA, for LAA that had GRU, not great but something
grave ravine
I mean, you could say the same for the Type 96
Multiple mounts had director fire control, with later ones having RPC
desert agate
I mean, you could say the same for the Type 96
they had centralised fire control for heavier type 96 mounts
manic latch
desert agate
open single and twin mounts often didnt but closed mounts almost always did
grave ravine
desert agate
i cant really be bothered going the US Technical Mission to Japans report on Japanese AA right now but its probably the only real source out there on the type 94 FCS
spring briar
manic latch
desert agate
this is on page 3 though so ill share it
maiden citrus
Mk44 director
yee, off mount director for better targeting
manic latch
yee, off mount director for better targeting
Hazemeyer: wtf
desert agate
this is on page 3 though so ill share it
the type 94s predecessor, the type 91 was also a solid design, it was old and cumbersome but still outperformed anything the British had at the time (hopes and dreams)
obtuse palm
38 kills with the 0.50 cal in 1942? Very interesting
grave ravine
i cant really be bothered going the US Technical Mission to Japans report on Jap...
Unfortunately even it has very little information about the Type 95 and Type 4 light directors
desert agate
you scream at a computer until it tells you where to shoot
maiden citrus
Hazemeyer: wtf
another thing easily forgotten is due to the depression era making it mass produce slowly it made the chicago piano seem to be a later weapon than its actual design was
it was in limited production as early as 1934, it had had most troubles fixed by 1938 models
maiden citrus
you scream at a computer until it tells you where to shoot
💻 
obtuse palm
another thing easily forgotten is due to the depression era making it mass produ...
Unfortunately only got it started fitting on sizable number of ships in 1940. IIRC even a couple BBs at Pearl Harbour didn't have it
maiden citrus
on the other hand, the bofors often thought of when one thinks of 'bofors' (aka the redesigned one) is an early 1942 deal
grave ravine
Unfortunately only got it started fitting on sizable number of ships in 1940. II...
Most of the cruisers got it earlier IIRC
maiden citrus
Unfortunately only got it started fitting on sizable number of ships in 1940. II...
yup, iirc oklahoma or arizona even had open deck weapon rings to have some fitted when sunk
desert agate
on the other hand, the bofors often thought of when one thinks of 'bofors' (aka ...
meanwhile the British still using the shit mounts until well into 43
obtuse palm
Most of the cruisers got it earlier IIRC
Mhm, probably, should be the Brooklyns?
desert agate
(the RAN got the good ones as soon as they were available)
grave ravine
Mhm, probably, should be the Brooklyns?
Even the older ones, all the treaty CAs got them I believe
obtuse palm
meanwhile the British still using the shit mounts until well into 43
Do the earlier mounts have a problem in service? I though earlier Bofors the problem was mostly just that it was laughably had to mass produce
desert agate
desert agate
Do the earlier mounts have a problem in service? I though earlier Bofors the pro...
the earlier mounts were air cooled not water cooled
desert agate
air cooling of course being somewhat innefficient when you're surrounded by water
spring briar
<a:richyboop:972839091701952542>
grave ravine
Even the older ones, all the treaty CAs got them I believe
Yeah skimming through Friedman they seem to have got them from 38-40
upper oar
I actually don't know how AA director works
I imagine you call out targets to each of your aa crews so that you can designate properly when dealing with multiple aircraft in different directions? I suppose
maiden citrus
desert agate
Alt timeline where Canberra is lost to air attack so we get Chicago pianos out of desperation for more AA (waiting on bofors) and become the sole operator
grave ravine
Yeah skimming through Friedman they seem to have got them from 38-40
The Chicago Piano refits happened at the same time the earlier treaty CAs had their 5" armaments doubled
desert agate
the treaty cruiser experience is truly just having some weirdly convenient refits happen right as the system starts to collapse
desert agate
That time a Zara had to Drydock in Malta and the British figured out its actual displacement as a result
grave ravine
The Pensacolas and Northamptons weren't designed originally with 8 5" guns, but work to refit them happened basically as soon as they hit the water and they realized the ships were dramatically underweight
maiden citrus
yup, iirc oklahoma or arizona even had open deck weapon rings to have some fitte...
arizona sporting an open aa ring to likely receive as such in 1941
ivory ridge
That time a Zara had to Drydock in Malta and the British figured out its actual ...
funny thing is that the brits thought only that one was special
desert agate
funny thing is that the brits thought only that one was special
Certified British intelligence moment
grave ravine
The Pensacolas and Northamptons weren't designed originally with 8 5" guns, but ...
The refits would have happened before the treaty system collapsed, except for a lack of money
bitter sapphire
the treaty cruiser experience is truly just having some weirdly convenient refit...
Ya gotta remember half of them were designed specifically with that eventuality in mind
ivory ridge
grave ravine
Ya gotta remember half of them were designed specifically with that eventuality ...
That is the point spoon was trying to make
desert agate
Ya gotta remember half of them were designed specifically with that eventuality ...
What an awfully convenient 4.5in belt you have lying around Vickers, oh and an awfully convenient County with an awfully convenient empty spot and an awfully convenient excess displacement
How awfully convenient
maiden citrus
the solution is to build ten thousand eries
desert agate
This is the way
maiden citrus
you're telling me the tonnage limit for ships counting towards the total is 2000 tons? alright let's make ships that are 2,000 tons standard
no more than four guns and can't be above 6.1''? ok four 6'' guns
20 knots maximum cruising speed? so it is
Since the London Treaty did not specify that armor plating could not be used Navy officials decided that armor plating was allowed.
and fuck it we ball
slap a 3.5'' belt on it and call it a day
seems like we are starting the war with 500 super DDEs
obtuse palm
Where Centauro Draco
obtuse palm
slap a 3.5'' belt on it and call it a day
Honestly just splinter proof is required, 4 6 in/47 guns is pretty heavy lol. Remember to spare loads of weight in design for future AA upgrade as well (unless you want to trade armour belt for that lol)
maiden citrus
a radar, depth charge and sonar equipped ship that goes 20 knots, has fantastic staying power for its size, large guns, has a scout plane and top notch aa too? in my 1936?
well maybe they gave up other factors like ra- 8,000 nautical miles you say?
maiden citrus
Honestly just splinter proof is required, 4 6 in/47 guns is pretty heavy lol. Re...
honestly with the armor they have eries are a destroyer's bane, and can probably hang with some of the lighter armed cls
it's certainly one of those ships that got so kneecapped due to expenses in the depression
obtuse palm
a radar, depth charge and sonar equipped ship that goes 20 knots, has fantastic ...
Too bad they couldn't fit a small TDS in there, could have prevented Erie from sinking
maiden citrus
yeah, though honestly any ship that size getting hit with a torpedo is going to be pretty luck based if it survives and if the machinery arrangement felt good that day
muted cobalt
Question irl have a nation captured and reused a former foe warship? And examples
heavy bay
A couple, yeah. Off the top of my head, the Japanese used a bunch of ships they captured in ww2 like an American destroyer, those Chinese mini-cruisers, an Italian gunboat, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stewart_(DD-224)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Ning_Hai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_minelayer_Lepanto
maiden citrus
was about to mention stewart yeah, truly interesting case lol
muted cobalt
Interesting
tawny lava
I didn't know Ning Hai was used by the Japanese, interesting
alpine onyx
Question irl have a nation captured and reused a former foe warship? And example...
Vasilefs Georgios I, reused by the Germans as ZG-3, later named Hermes
muted cobalt
I wonder how Will these be implemented in game
But most importantly what are paper ships
ivory ridge
they wont
AL doesnt do captured and war prize ships
only sold ships and willing transfers
alpine onyx
Hermes' career under the Greet flag wasn't that spectacular, might as well make her part of IB
muted cobalt
Why not the last faction they served
ivory ridge
because they dont do that
muted cobalt
Or the one that had their best run
ivory ridge
the concept of captured ships when they arent simple machines ran by humans but actual living beings
is
yknow
muted cobalt
only sold ships and willing transfers
Example?
spring briar
Or the one that had their best run
Awful
ivory ridge
It's still dumb
it wont happen
especially with ships from factions that are in the game
while captured ships from even smaller navies just wont be added
muted cobalt
I want identify crisis of a soldier fighting against former allies
That could either be gold or shit
muted cobalt
Sad
muted cobalt
But most importantly what are paper ships
.
bitter sapphire
Question irl have a nation captured and reused a former foe warship? And example...
the one I remember off the top of my head is Hibiki, which was turned over to the Soviets after surviving the entire war
manic latch
the one I remember off the top of my head is Hibiki, which was turned over to th...
That's not really capture tho
It's Nurnberg, Cesare, Nagato, Litto etc etc situation
Axis ships shared among allies
China gets some Japanese ships too
manic latch
China gets some Japanese ships too
muted cobalt
I was hoping to see them in game but nonetheless I want to know about BP ships now
runic ermine
Nice
upper oar
Speaking of ships to add Johnston when
spring briar
subtle prawn
Twitter
runic ermine
What are some countries' worst defeats in ww2. I listed some awhile ago but I wanna hear more opinions
tawny lava
Matapan comes to mind
runic ermine
Matapan comes to mind
For which nation?
tawny lava
Thought it would have been obvious, but italy
chilly osprey
Strictly naval, or on land too?
wise vessel
naval-wise, the norweigan campaign was pretty bad in numbers for the germans
half of their heavy cruisers, a third of their light cruisers, and half of their destroyers were destroyed in it
the aftermath of the barents' sea saw the surface fleet of the kriegsmarine almost entirely abandoned as well
alpine onyx
half of their heavy cruisers, a third of their light cruisers, and half of their...
Half the heavy cruisers? They had Hipper, Blücher, Deutschland/Lützow and Scheer, and lost Blücher. Or do you count the damage sustained by Hipper and Deutschland as a full loss?
eternal veldt
Ackshually the Deutschlands are pocket ba-
alpine onyx
spring briar
muted cobalt
What are paper ships
obtuse palm
Ships that never existed IRL and only theoretically modelled from blueprints
tribal mortar
One message removed from a suspended account.
One message removed from a suspended account.
One message removed from a suspended account.
tribal mortar
One message removed from a suspended account.
runic ermine
Strictly naval, or on land too?
Both
chilly osprey
Ah. Well, tbh, for the Italians I'd probably say Operation Compass or the final result of Tunisiagrad.
Matapan was the worst defeat the navy suffered at sea but that was still only the lost off one cruiser division and half a destroyer squadron. A significant loss to be sure but not one that impacted their ability to continue their core missions.
Whereas the effective destruction of an entire army and its loss of equipment, as well as a big chunk of North Africa (or all of it, after Tunisiagrad)... much bigger deal.
runic ermine
Italian propaganda poster calling for revenge against the British, 1942
runic ermine
Tho it could be just symbolizing squishing London easily with one finger like a ...
Pretty cool tbh
upper oar
Hey not sure if this is the right channel for this but my friend was checking US archives available and didn’t find log books for a few ships during WW2 (Yorktown Hornet Gambier Bay, and part of the Enterprise and Laffey supposedly) and so he put in a FOIA request. I told him he should look around a bit more first, are they really not public or did he not look enough for them?
wise vessel
it could be that those log books exist somewhere, but theyre either lost in the archives or are just missing entirely
looking more wont hurt imo, but dont have your hopes up
upper oar
I just wasn’t sure if you can get in trouble for wasting the governments time requesting info that may already be publicly available so I figured we should look more
wise vessel
im 100% sure you wont get in trouble for requesting something from the archive, they're open to requests for things like this lol
upper oar
I think he put the FOIA request to the navy
Yeah department of the navy just double checked
manic latch
@tough quail finally it has a video
Likely most unique looking aircraft carrier design ever
Think this was the smaller design
wise vessel
that thing doesnt look real
manic latch
that thing doesnt look real
I mean ye it stayed as a design and some test models
Since there was experince gained from Lun class
runic ermine
<@84008086733324288> finally it has a video
https://youtu.be/GCJ-nDz7B1U?si=c6a...
Of course something like this is Russian
fierce sparrow
<@84008086733324288> finally it has a video
https://youtu.be/GCJ-nDz7B1U?si=c6a...
Found And Explained, I think of him as the budget version of Mustard.
I always think the Ekranoplan was the Soviet idea, but it seems even the US explore that idea too.
autumn sorrel
Found And Explained, I think of him as the budget version of Mustard.
Ngl, I confuse them sometime bc of the style of their thumbnails
runic ermine
On Canada day too
manic latch
I always think the Ekranoplan was the Soviet idea, but it seems even the US expl...
Golden rule
Every military crazed nation looked into how to apply X knowledge of physics into weaponry
shrewd pecan
It’s being considered right now as a potential capability for supplying forward positions in the pacific by the US
manic latch
Waves are it's weakness
shrewd pecan
generally the proposed use as a missile boat seemed wasteful though as a supply vessel it could be rather useful if the kinks can be figured out
manic latch
God I hate how British and American English differs for words
Civilisation vs Civilization
Honour vs Honor
Armour vs armor
chilly osprey
This is what happens when you don't pronounce your vowels and can't say 'z' properly
bitter sapphire
God I hate how British and American English differs for words
A controversy of aluminum
subtle prawn
“Taxation without representation”
sullen canyon
That and grammars
runic ermine
Something was deleted
subtle prawn
Twitter
frozen kestrel
Something was deleted
Found out about the anti-drone Yak-52 in Ukraine. Turned out I had just found old news again
supple sandal
Would be funny if we bring back prop dogfight
eternal veldt
Civilisation vs Civilization
Something something "getting rid of u"
And the first rule of English grammar is don't ask about it
runic ermine
Found out about the anti-drone Yak-52 in Ukraine. Turned out I had just found ol...
On that note, there have been quite a few aces during the conflict
supple sandal
mental tapir
Yak-52 vs Sky Warden vs Super Tucano 
shrewd pecan
autumn sorrel
My 3rd favorite swing wing, after MiG-23 and SU-24
runic ermine
subtle prawn
junior trench
quoting from elsewhere
This video did not hit
Which is rare for MHV but yeah
The argument basically boils down into "The scene makes zero sense with real life tactics" and breaks down quickly once you realize that WW2 Western Front shenanigans were an absolute fuck and you have both sides being absolutely incompetent and defying their tactics at multiple points
The Battle for Dompaire with Panzer Brigade 150 literally not bothering with recon or the Sherbrooke Fusiliers getting their shit kicked in by 12th SS Panzer at Buron because they didn't have infantry come to mind (edited)
Fury's problem is that it tries to use the British tanker war experience for the April 1945 setting
Yeah losing all your tanks is a very British 1944 Normandy thing
Yeah having to defend a crossroads alone against an infantry battalion is a very British 1944/Canadian 1944 Normandy thing
It is not really an American April 1945 Germany thing
crimson roost
Hello, um I have a question about Japanese destroyer gun turrets. I tried looking up whether or not their was a prototype gun or better gun than the 127mm gun type 5 besides the 100mm gun made later on. Is there a better gun or is the 100mm gun it?
junior trench
do you mean the Type 3 12.7cm?
because the actual Type 1/5 12.7cm is the only remotely viable prototype that could have displaced it
especially with the Type 98 10cm being an objective downgrade for anything other than AA use
crimson roost
Yeah I think the Type 3 12.7cm yeah the one you get through gear boxes or by making through blueprints.The Type 1/5 12.7cm is in the gear a lab in Azur lane as an upgrade right? I was wondering if Japanese ever made a prototype gun turret to replace the Type 1/5 12.7cm gun or was it the prototype?
junior trench
the Type 1/5 was the abortive prototype meant to replace the Type 3, yes
and it only existed as the Type 1, which was meant for use aboard ships, for a very short time
the Type 5 revival was solely a shore based AA/coast defense gun
devout cedar
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollice_verso
Ain’t no way the thumbs up existed back then
shrewd pecan
extended reach
sullen canyon
Ain’t no way the thumbs up existed back then
That's because everyone wanted to see someone die when they asked for mercy
remote monolith
do note police verreso seems to be incredibly rare as most gladiator combats aren't to the death
gladiators are expensive as fuck to buy, train and promote since they're designed to entertain as long as they can
think modern WWE stars
for the most part the gesture seems reserved for when someone fucks up bad
shrewd pecan
fierce sparrow
willow jungle
BT-7A, but instead of the F-32... They mounted a freaking 76mm L-11 gun.
Gaijin, BT-7A (L-11) when???
runic ermine
Gaijin, BT-7A (L-11) when???
It's in Enlisted
willow jungle
It's in Enlisted
Wait really?!
runic ermine
Wait really?!
Yes but it was an event
2022 I think. I have it but I can't play cuz my Xbox broke 
junior trench
not sure why you're freaking out about it being an L-11
willow jungle
Aw what a let down. Hope I can get my hand on those dem speedy baby T-34.
junior trench
it's effectively identical in performance to the F-32 ballistically
willow jungle
In WT
junior trench
and was found inferior in handling
willow jungle
and was found inferior in handling
Which one has bad handling??? L-11 or F-32???
junior trench
L-11
junior trench
industrial feudalism
F-32 had been picked for the KV-1 1940
and L-11 had been picked for T-34 1940
and all the people who could have brought up the issue were also a bit too afraid to a raise a suggestion which could be twisted as trying to delay Soviet industry
willow jungle
But then they decide to use L-11 for early KVs?
junior trench
L-11 was used on the 1939 model
junior trench
if you ever get confused over weird lack of standardization
keep in mind Soviet factories wanted to only build the designs they came up with, and were effectively the personal fiefdoms of whoever was running them
aaaaand also just recently in 1937 the whole commission who ran the Soviet census was arrested and put on show trial for accurately reporting numbers which ran counter to Soviet expectations
do you want to be the person suggesting a delay in production for something as counter-revolutionary as "standardization"?
willow jungle
do *you* want to be the person suggesting a delay in production for something as...
Nope. Not gonna send myself to Gulag or get hanged.
Or worst.
junior trench
do *you* want to be the person suggesting a delay in production for something as...
the actual reason will be because you make one factory or another lose face, and the people who run those places have friends in high places
runic ermine
BT-7A, but instead of the F-32... They mounted a freaking 76mm L-11 gun.
I forgot to mention that only 150 of them were made
junior trench
incidentally
speaking of that 1937 census
it has
interesting implications regarding the oft claimed "but Soviet literacy rates"
left is the original question, right is the Stalin approved question
willow jungle
I forgot to mention that only 150 of them were made
With like... Single BT-7A survived this day.
junior trench
you can see how the Stalin improved one would artificially inflate the rate
junior trench
the worst for tank vs tank
not the worst if you just want to fling HE and not stress a rather lightly built tank
junior trench
WT's implementation of the shrapnel shell is largely anachronistic
and their use in tanks, even direct fire artillery support types, is also rather out of place
runic ermine
The one with the worst gun.
Short gun if I remember correctly
bitter sapphire
People tend to forget that 90% of a tanks fights are vs infantry
runic ermine
People tend to forget that 90% of a tanks fights are vs infantry
It's cuz of Hollywood
fierce sparrow
glad sand
autumn sorrel
French pre dread is a love-hate relationship
runic ermine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ZpI_JK06c
I remember putting that as Germany's worst defeat on my list
remote monolith
there's also the concurrent Lwow-Sandomierz Offensive
Bagration wasn't really meant as the massive deathblow that it was, most of the Red Army's resources were actually for L-S Offensive
but the deception was so massively successful for Bagration that it ended up completely overshadowing the bigger operation
junior trench
Germans forces meant for the area where Bagration occurred had been diverted as well
shrewd pecan
crazy
junior trench
the funny historiography footnote to this is Soviet propaganda immediately turned it into a "just as planned" moment by Stalin
devout cedar
This reminds me of tank that had a motar instead of a barrel
subtle prawn
willow jungle
This reminds me of tank that had a motar instead of a barrel
The gun is the 76mm KT-28, basically the tank version of the 76mm Regimental Gun M1927.
devout cedar
The gun is the 76mm KT-28, basically the tank version of the 76mm Regimental Gun...
Wowie zowie
(Autocorrect)
willow jungle
Which is... An infantry gun.
devout cedar
willow jungle
Infantry Support Gun rather.
devout cedar
Which is... An infantry gun.
Best infantry gun in my opinion is the M1 Garand
willow jungle
Norwegian Krag and MAS-44 for mine.
devout cedar
Norwegian Krag and MAS-44 for mine.
Coolio
desert agate
None of you have heard of the Owen gun and it shows
runic ermine
None of you have heard of the Owen gun and it shows
I have
autumn sorrel
Ok, who have “air launch SM-6” on the bingo card?
manic latch
Ok, who have “air launch SM-6” on the bingo card?
They were already testing it
Why you guys are so late to everything
autumn sorrel
Krem 
shrewd pecan
Ok, who have “air launch SM-6” on the bingo card?
we've seen test missiles for that for the last like six years
new pictures just confirm the designation
ABM capable hornet sounds funny I must say
mental tapir
Apparently they removed the booster for the air-launched version, so it's not quite "SM-6 max speed and altitude + speed and altitude of F/A-18E/F Super Hornet" kind of range
But probably a stopgap long range A2A while waiting for JATM & LREW to come online, maybe?
manic latch
But probably a stopgap long range A2A while waiting for JATM & LREW to come onli...
It's just a concept testing if you ask me
chilly osprey
Apparently they removed the booster for the air-launched version, so it's not *q...
While this is true, not having the booster is a very good trade for not having to work your way up to speed and high altitude from surface launch. Getting launched by an F/A-18E/F is likely going to see a fairly massive air to air range, especially against less maneuverable targets.
I would think of this as a "we're hunting for your bombers and enablers" type of missile.
While also maintaining the capability to attack other (not air) targets.
manic latch
Twitter
subtle prawn
Twitter
willow jungle
Grumman F6F with a Mark 13 torpedo.
subtle prawn
Twitter
lethal edge
Norwegian Krag and MAS-44 for mine.
well I think the MAS-36 with MAT 49 is better
lethal edge
None of you have heard of the Owen gun and it shows
I heard it and see it before
runic ermine
Best infantry gun in my opinion is the M1 Garand
Rifle: Lee Enfield
SMG: Beretta M38
MG: MG-42
Pistol: Browning Hi-Power
runic ermine
<:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:740554342213484605>
Yeah good picks are a shock I know
devout cedar
Yeah good picks are a shock I know
for my MG, its the 50 cal
runic ermine
for my MG, its the 50 cal
I picked the mg42 for its versatility and because it has an easier barrel change system than the mg34
devout cedar
I picked the mg42 for its versatility and because it has an easier barrel change...
real
shrewd pecan
https://vxtwitter.com/i/status/1713348050263949606
https://vxtwitter.com/i/status/1713352421835948452
eternal veldt
@alpine onyx I think this might interest you, pertaining to Fletchers:
On 15 June 1940, the Secretary of the Navy approved a C&R/Bureau of Engineering suggestion that one of the new destroyers be used as a prototype diesel warship, a new lightweight diesel having been produced. It was expected that a diesel electric plant would be fitted, which would facilitate subdivision. Other supposed advantages included clearer decks and the elimination of much piping. Surprisingly, they did not include improved endurance. Verv little work seems to have been done on this project. and the ship was never built.
alpine onyx
eternal veldt
Wouldn't call it the greatest - was quite the hazard trying to land at Kai Tak, as I recall.
(Also worth noting that it is full blown chaos on the first day Chek Lap Kok opened - with much criticism given to how hastily Kai Tak was shut down while the new isn't ready yet)
desert agate
It was hazardous and spectacular
spring briar
Wouldn't call it the greatest - was quite the hazard trying to land at Kai Tak, ...
Thats why it was the greatest
eternal veldt
Thats why it was the greatest
Not so great if a plane crashes into the neighbourhood - a rather worrisome concern at the time.
spring briar
great
jagged monolith
That does not look safe.
manic latch
Why are the side skirts so fucking thick
ERA tiles
spring briar
you thought they named the atoll after the garnment?
wintry moat
No
idk what i thought
i never made the connection between Bikini Atoll and the Bikini
shy grail
https://youtu.be/11173sD3kgc?si=-1ho9YzhUUBHhZFt
Operation Harpoon & Vigorous
desert agate
@remote monolith
remote monolith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG3P2BUYIQ8&ab_channel=LeaveCurious
Glad to see this
You can see the similarity between this and Araucaria in morphology
remote monolith
so it seems an even larger, but undescribed, specimen of Ichthyotitan was discovered some time ago https://youtu.be/N4dsVkSIFjo?si=JM9J-2Jj4HpANhkT
the fossil, a surrangular bone, was about 15% larger than previous remains, making it possible it came from an animal 50% larger than the previous specimens
its still smaller than the utterly gigantic Aust Cliff specimen, but still ludicrously huge
fierce sparrow
maiden citrus
so it seems an even larger, but undescribed, specimen of Ichthyotitan was discov...
will have fun watching this
subtle prawn
Twitter
chilly flower
(From Surface and Destroy: The Submarine Gun War in the Pacific)
The use of TNT charges in subsequent boardings afterwards was because sinking via the 12 gauge took too long
manic latch
The use of TNT charges in subsequent boardings afterwards was because sinking vi...
Naturally lmao
junior jacinth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxRFLgzQN5M
Damn 
fierce sparrow
subtle prawn
Twitter
manic latch
Nice
pure zephyr
Dang, crazy https://youtu.be/1thNIkX6hQc?si=YzBczkSlGV2uB-PC
runic ermine
https://fxtwitter.com/RCAF_ARC/status/1810426543921037548
Nice
narrow rover
Kai-tak had... quite the assortment of nicknames by pilots here because it was such a hazard to land
It's a miracle a major accident didn't occur, though I heard a plane once clipped an antenna on those buildings once
eternal veldt
They fortunately have a checkerboard hill to see, at least
What really helped cement Kai Tak with phenomenal sights is because the Kowloon Walled City is right next to it, a densely packed dystopian shithole that no governmental body wanted to handle
Ironic that most westerners' stereotypical image of Hong Kong is that place, packed with neon signs and walkways everywhere
(and, obligatory reminder that HMS Hermes, the first carrier was responsible for developing Kai Tak in the first place after the initial ventures failed)
junior jacinth
ivory ridge
Cavour my beloved
desert agate
Twitter
James Gordon, a private in the 2nd Australian Imperial Force, received his VC for his actions at Greenhill, north of Jezzine, Lebanon, on 10 July 1941. Under intense machine gun fire, Gordon approached an enemy machine gun post, and charged and killed four machine gunners with a bayonet. This action demoralised the enemy and allowed Gordon's company to advance, taking the position. Gordon was greatly admired for the courage demonstrated by these actions.
Dargie noted his experience of painting the portrait that Gordon was, "Not the smiling, happy-go-lucky "Digger" of legend, but the slightly older-than-young man with a very definite sense of responsibility. A farmer from Western Australia, he had all the countryman's modesty and reticience of speech. He rather deprecated heroism as such, and said "No-one likes wars. It's just a matter sticking with your friends." As I was painting this portrait, and was discussing with him the action at Merjayoun, in which he won his V.C., I noticed he was trembling. Thinking he was feeling the strain of the pose, I said, "Have a rest. I've had you sitting too long." "No, that's alright." he said, "but I always get like this when I think of that action." I felt sorry I had reminded him of it, and said so. He replied: "My cobber and myself often talk about it." "
desert agate
Filipino FA-50s in Darwin for Exercise Pitch Black 2024
runic ermine
https://x.com/AWMemorial/status/1810818750532272215
That was during the Syria and Lebanon campaign right?
spring briar
@manic latch you interested in 8" AP Mk.21 mod 3-5 perhaps
spring briar
subtle prawn
Twitter
subtle prawn
grave ravine
Wait wtf, I just realized they added a real ship that saw combat service as a PR
manic latch
Wait wtf, I just realized they added a real ship that saw combat service as a PR
She has attack planes made out of what if F8F floatplanes
So that caused her to be like that yes
Since historically she had spotter planes
In 1943
grave ravine
She has attack planes made out of what if F8F floatplanes
Which is of course silly, but regardless this ship actually existed
manic latch
Yes
It changed lot of implications
It means Wisconsin herself can be PR because of her gimmicks
round elbow
I can't tell if thats a good thing or a bad thing.
subtle prawn
Latter to me
Because you're taking somebody who could have been a regular event character with a unique gimmick and wasting them on a collab in favor of somebody more interesting
grave ravine
Its also kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth because again this is a real ship that saw combat in WW2 in the USN
round elbow
I hope they spring for "Vermont" instead then.
frozen kestrel
grave ravine
Halford before the catapult was removed and the ship was converted back to the standard Fletcher layout
frozen kestrel
Friendly reminder, they made three of those little fuckers
grave ravine
yep
round elbow
For science...
frozen kestrel
Why did I read that in GLaDOS's voice
grave ravine
Pringle and Stevens
frozen kestrel
I legit forgot one of them was named Pringle
grave ravine
I legit forgot one of them was named Pringle
named after a Vice Admiral who had served in WW1 and been president of the Naval War College
round elbow
Neat.
grave ravine
I believe Halford was the only one of the three to actually have seen combat while in her original configuration with the seaplane, participating in the 1943 Marcus Islands Raid
manic latch
Twitter
ivory ridge
lmao
runic ermine
What is it
rapid junco
He didnt
Well
You know the history already
I wanted to share the newspaper illustration
Maryland paid a visit to Rio de Janeiro
But that was in 1922...
There's also the case of HMS Petunia you may already be aware of
lime scarab
What’s yours guys thought on ww1 ships and interwar ships being constructed or lunched?
round elbow
Every ship after the first ironclad i like on some level bordering on care. Except the french predreadnaughts.... i just feel like they have wasted potential.
rapid junco
I only know the Deodoro class 
If they can be considered French pre dreads
round elbow
They look out of proportion. Compared to the ships France would build after Dreadnaught.
spring briar
First of all you’re thinking of the first one or two classes of French pre dreadnoughts (Charles Martels or Charlemagnes) that looked weird sure
The later french pre dreads look much more conventional
round elbow
Yeah primarily those ones. Are the ones I remember the most.
Though it should be noted i still like them... just not as much as other ships.
lime scarab
I mean the French weren’t the o my ones that made ship I mean look at early USA pre dreadnoughts that weren’t so great ships because America was experimenting with them
round elbow
Yeah I can't deny that.
lime scarab
@spring briar were the French pre dreadnoughts good or they were ok designs?
mental tapir
Anyone has any historical sources on the S-21 rockets?
spring briar
<@450678921512353792> were the French pre dreadnoughts good or they were ok desi...
They were innovative designs which lacked in some areas
autumn sorrel
They were innovative designs which lacked in some areas
A fancy way to describe a batch of experimental ship
scenic garden
hello, i was wondering if anyone here happened to have a picture of an american 21" mk 17 torpedo
as far as im aware they made a few right before the end of the war but i cant find like any pictures of them lmao
manic latch
Anyone has any historical sources on the S-21 rockets?
It's a unguided airburst rocket
That you can technically use it for anti surface duties as well
Like the Wfr.Gr.21 and RS-132, both also airburst AA rockets.
autumn sorrel
Again you’re only referring to the first class we built
I actually like that batch, it is so nonsensical that it is cute
lime scarab
A fancy way to describe a batch of experimental ship <:EmileSip:4953966871589683...
I mean we can’t really criticize there designs because every single country were getting there get wet to craft the great ship designs. Which require to think out of the box ship hulls.
I mean America also had experimental designs, heck look at uss Oregon it was very heavy if I remember correctly
runic ermine
https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1811846061918454199
Reminds me of how the nato reporting name for the mig 15 was the fagot in reference to the instrument
wintry moat
Cool!
junior trench
it's also not particularly high performance, which makes its existence as a UR just one of many ??? choices in AL equipment from a historical perspective
junior trench
I mean
there's better grounds even for UR Japanese FC director computers
the Admiralty Table is just really
mid
it's a thing of all time
cinder escarp
US when they don't want to hand over VT fuzes because the AFCT was too poor
manic latch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_Fire_Control_Table
Basically what happened was
getting Vanguard
We already had everything she had in game already(guns, AA, secondary)
Manjuu: Let's add her fire control to make her special smh
obtuse palm
US when they don't want to hand over VT fuzes because the AFCT was too poor
That's HACS lol, AFCT is for surface gunnery control
junior trench
you're honestly hard pressed to find any surface only FC computer which is worth putting as a UR
mostly cus it's a pretty comprehensively solved problem outside of some... loss of institutional knowledge cases
it's the DP and AA systems where all the interesting shit is going on
cinder escarp
That's HACS lol, AFCT is for surface gunnery control
they both suck lmao
sorry
I do get them confused
obtuse palm
they both suck lmao
Well HACS sucks, AFCT is more or less middling, Warspite, DoY after all got their 20 k+ yards hits with it
Although Mk 37 imo probably should have been the UR gear, like HMS Vanguard also has that, would be a good reference
obtuse palm
>getting Vanguard
>We already had everything she had in game already(guns, AA, ...
They were correct in choosing the fire control system for the UR, they just picked the wrong FCS
humble jewel
Behold, low quality video of Laffey:
https://youtu.be/mInThy-A6yI?si=XHy5-z5bU7UJRQ43
round elbow
Did Vanguard ever have anything unique?
autumn sorrel
Did Vanguard ever have anything unique?
Her AA
runic ermine
Did Vanguard ever have anything unique?
Last battleship ever produced
cunning fractal
Well then
I just learned that the UK one-upped the French before they even thought about Surcouf
THEY PUT A BATTLESHIP GUN ON A SUBMARINE… IN WW1!
round elbow
Last battleship ever produced
I should have clarified that I meant technologically.
obtuse palm
I should have clarified that I meant technologically.
You mean worldwide or just for the British?
round elbow
Either one.
fierce sparrow
Twitter
subtle prawn
Twitter
eternal veldt
Honestly, probably not Mark 37 as UR
Use Mark 38, for main battery DCT
Alas, gold in AL's eyes
grave ravine
Since it's AFCT it should probably be the Mk 8 range keeper rather than the Mk 38 gfcs as a whole
obtuse palm
Either one.
First British FCS that was built to track a highly maneuvering target, only RN BB with any form of RPC for both main and secondary battery (USN did this first). As a whole most efficient BB at or near top speed for its displacement, and had good sea keeping
eternal veldt
Since it's AFCT it should probably be the Mk 8 range keeper rather than the Mk 3...
Could always pair it with the post-war Mark 13, but I digress
round elbow
First British FCS that was built to track a highly maneuvering target, only RN B...
Interesting. Thank you for the information.
pure zephyr
What would of happened if the United States military had turned the entirety of Iraq into a military state after the 2003 Iraq War until it became functional to be its own country?
junior trench
Then you would have a post military state functional Iraq
subtle prawn
Twitter
fierce sparrow
mental tapir
it's also not particularly high performance, which makes its existence as a UR j...
I mean, at least it was good enough to outdo the Iowa-class BBs during gunnery exercises with them? Vanguard's AFCT was also the final variant, the Mk X
junior trench
that's not an FC thing
that's a natural difference in dispersion between the guns thing
frozen kestrel
Anyone know what classes the other three warships in Greyhound are? I think Dicky is a Flower-class? Eagle looks like she's an L/M-class or something similar. Couldn't see any good shots of Harry in full view, so it's hard to figure out what she is, best I could find was the third image.
I don't know, I'm pretty sure I got all of their classes wrong
maiden citrus
iirc, Dicky is a flower class, Eagle is a Grom class, I forget what Harry is
looks kinda like a battle class though from this shot
(which wouldn't have really been around during this film period, but greyfound is supposed to be a mahan but was filmed on kidd so)
chilly flower
Isn't Harry a Tribal?
(in the movie)
turrets aren't big enough to be a Battle anyways
maiden citrus
doesn't seem to have a big shell catcher ahead of turret 2 but that may be the angle
admittedly I haven't seen the movie in a long time
frozen kestrel
Second funnel on her looks too short to be a Tribal
Could be Battle-class, but that makes no sense, since they didn't enter service till '44
chilly flower
Bow proportionally isn't long enough to be a Battle though
(and they only have one funnel anyways)
Tribal fits best
maiden citrus
frozen kestrel
Turret's are too squat to be a Tribal. God this movie doesn't make this shit easy
maiden citrus
in the book I think harry was fictional
chilly flower
But they're not boxy enough to be a Battle
frozen kestrel
chilly flower
also, more critically, they aren't super far from the bridge like a Battle
junior trench
at least they all look the part
maiden citrus
also, more critically, they aren't super far from the bridge like a Battle
that angle is really good for showing it
junior trench
something something Dunkirk anti-CGI wank causing the destroyer's appearance to be massive whiplash
like I know it was super hot to rag on CGI, but sometimes you gotta do it and then do the rest on set
because
really?
chilly flower
aye
junior trench
what's goofy
is that cgi naval vessels often look better than physical models, but cgi spaceships often look worse than physical models
maiden citrus
ehhhhh
junior trench
or rather
junior trench
the bar for physical models of spaceships got set really fucking high back with the original star wars trilogy
chilly flower
(critical take most cgi ships in media look better than models)
Just put aside the Midway movie DDs
maiden citrus
well yeah, we're assuming they're trying
frozen kestrel
Okay, so wikipedia says Harry's a Tribal and Eagle is a Grom
maiden citrus
so it is a tribal
frozen kestrel
The thing that fucks with everything is the turrets
maiden citrus
my british dd identification skills is not a high bar to clear
so I don't feel bad
chilly flower
The thing that fucks with everything is the turrets
the turrets are a bit scuffed, but still everything else lines up much more with a Tribal
second funnel is too short? what else has a second funnel lmao
junior trench
the alphabet soup DDs get even weirder when you realize a lot of them should technically be under a single umbrella class
but due to the way the RN ordered DDs they get filed as a separate class rather than a subclass or flight
because the variances are so small
frozen kestrel
cough cough J/K/N-class
obtuse palm
D-H classes are mostly the same as well
Also C and I class used generally the same hull
slate blade
eternal veldt
Anyone know what classes the other three warships in Greyhound are? I *think* Di...
Dicky is HMCS Sackville, Eagle is ORP Blyskawica, Harry is a fictitious Tribal (IIRC with some oversized turrets), Greyhound is Kidd
which, surprise, nearly all of them are museum ships bar Harry, but that could be easily modified via CGI after some tampering with HMCS Haida
these few shots should give you enough details to tell where they got the ships from, especially the maple leaf on Dicky.
It's fairly decent for CGI work - save for the anti-kamikaze fit on Kidd, which didn't appear until 1945.
As for Dunkirk, just
Lol, lmao even
junior jacinth
cunning fractal
https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1812298550081986732
If remember correctly, another cruiser, Honolulu I think though I’m not sure, lost her entire bow in the same attack. The crew managed to keep her afloat long enough to get to the nearest post weld a big sheet of metal and sail her back to the US. The US damage control crew were something else.
frozen kestrel
Dicky is HMCS Sackville, Eagle is ORP Blyskawica, Harry is a fictitious Tribal (...
Figured out what was wrong with Harry. Harry might've had these turrets as opposed to the 4-inch DP turrets we usually see on a Tribal-class
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4.7-inch_Mk_IX_%26_XII_naval_gun
junior trench
The 4x 4.7" mounts was the as built armament for the majority of the ships except for 2 of the Canadian vessels which had 4x 4" mounts as built.
And war time modification of the 4.7" armed Tribals never replaced all 4 of the original mounts
Which is to say only 2 of the 27 had a fully 4" armament during wartime
frozen kestrel
Wasn't Eskimo one of those two?
junior trench
No
frozen kestrel
ah
desert agate
subtle prawn
runic ermine
Opinions on Operation AI
runic ermine
Aka the Japanese invasion of the aleutian islands
bitter sapphire
Anything from profound waste of time to actively sabotaging the far more important MI mission
The idea does seem okay if you are a desk jockey who's only looking at the situation from a globe and has never seen the arctic first hand. The steaming distances are a lot closer than a flat map projection might imply.
grave ravine
The Japanese invasion of the Aleutians only happened because of the political horse trading necessary to build support for Midway
It was a stupid sideshow that frittered away valuable resources
bitter sapphire
The moment you actually arrive in the area though, it becomes obvious why the islands are completely untenable for a forward base. The terrain is horrid to negotiate or build on, and an impenetrable mist hangs close to the ground making air ops a near impossibility at times and even caused friendly fire among the allies during the retake.
And then to stack the operation at the same time as MI was a downright criminal misuse of resources, especially when you look at the rosters and realize that the AL operation in its three stages sucked away more tonnage than MI even used.
shrewd pecan
runic ermine
And then to stack the operation at the same time as MI was a downright criminal ...
I still find the decoy operation myth to be crazy though
And Kantai Collection even mentions it as a "decoy operation" though it has been proven not to be one
But I agree that Japan wasted A LOT of men and material in that campaign
lime scarab
How good was the Baltimore class desing and how powerful was she?
fierce sparrow
spring briar
How good was the Baltimore class desing and how powerful was she?
Very good and powerful
Basically a new orleans but with everything upgraded because of no treaty restrictions
And a facehardened belt
shrewd pecan
https://fxtwitter.com/wackleeb0/status/1813440504891052495
m1 thumper my beloved
manic latch
How good was the Baltimore class desing and how powerful was she?
I can one shot her
subtle prawn
desert agate
wrong! Hawker Hunter
subtle prawn
desert agate
https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1813608325420081328
It won’t be long before there are no more WW2 veterans left
runic ermine
It won’t be long before there are no more WW2 veterans left
It's a sad reality
subtle prawn
inland saddle
Hey, i have a question guys .
Did you know what happend to the RICHELIEU once it arrive in England ?
Even if they mostly stole it...
eternal veldt
"stole" - The free french very much kept her in their hands, thank you very much
inland saddle
English took it
eternal veldt
Who said that?
inland saddle
I remember sawing it somewhere...
I don't remember it...
Mostly fake i guess...
😮💨
obtuse palm
Added a standard RN radar fit for battleships basically
inland saddle
Huh ?
eternal veldt
Richelieu remained in French hands through her career, she remained in Dakar until 1942 when Admirl Darlan finally ordered the French forces to join the allied side
At which point the USA took the Richelieu to New York for much needed repairs, although extremely unwillingly
inland saddle
Yeah, i know this part
eternal veldt
And as a snub in the face, gave her a fucking PT boat radar as fire control
inland saddle
?!
eternal veldt
It wasnt until 1944 when the British gave her Type 285 and SG radar at Durban
inland saddle
A bit late...
eternal veldt
Even then, the ship is under French control, not British
obtuse palm
It wasnt until 1944 when the British gave her Type 285 and SG radar at Durban
IIRC when she first arrived in late 1943 in Scapa Flow she received Type 284 gunnery control radar. She got the Type 285, Type 281B, SG, and a FV1 Jammer in Casablanca in late 1944, she went to fix other issues during her 1945 Durban refit
eternal veldt
Theres a book
French Battleships 1922-1956
Highly recommended if you are interested in Fr BBs overall
spring briar
runic ermine
excellent thread on the logistics of the New Guinea campaign
I remember hearing that the Owen Gun preformed extremely well in this campaign
desert agate
Performed well in every campaign it was used in from Papua to Vietnam
runic ermine
Performed well in every campaign it was used in from Papua to Vietnam
Also didn't the Thompson not preform well in that campaign?
desert agate
The Thompson barely performed well in Europe of course it would struggle in the jungles of New Guinea
subtle prawn
silver crest
oomfies
didn't the hawaiian king put the union jack on the hawaiian flag just because thought it looked cool?
subtle prawn
maiden citrus
didn't the hawaiian king put the union jack on the hawaiian flag just because th...
iirc, yes lol
runic ermine
didn't the hawaiian king put the union jack on the hawaiian flag just because th...
Surprisingly yes
silver crest
fierce sparrow
Twitter
fierce sparrow
