torpedo tubes were barely a step above that and honestly werent such a bad idea
#history
desert agate
runic ermine
Only thing cod vanguard did right was show why that's a bad idea
desert agate
considering how pathetically slow Bearn was, giving her some capability to defend herself isnt the worst thing to do
desert agate
Only thing cod vanguard did right was show why that's a bad idea
doesnt that game take place in WW2?
runic ermine
considering how pathetically slow Bearn was, giving her some capability to defen...
If that was the case then maybe cruiser guns aren't such a bad idea lol
runic ermine
doesnt that game take place in WW2?
Somehow yes
Even though there's an F2000
And germans using AS-44s
desert agate
Akagi lost her 3 decks between 1935-38
runic ermine
And Japanese using STGs
desert agate
she shouldnt have her 3 decks in any ww2 setting
runic ermine
she shouldnt have her 3 decks in any ww2 setting
Sorry think I showed her with 2
desert agate
If that was the case then maybe cruiser guns aren't such a bad idea lol
they were because building slow carriers is a bad idea but they weren't to know that
she never had 2 decks
runic ermine
she never had 2 decks
Idk I haven't seen cod vanguard in like a year
desert agate
she had a single straight through flight deck installed in her 35-38 refit
runic ermine
And I wanna keep it that way
runic ermine
they were because building slow carriers is a bad idea but they weren't to know ...
Isn't that was escorts were for. To protect the capital ships?
desert agate
Kaga also had a single deck
runic ermine
Kaga also had a single deck
But more aircraft
desert agate
carriers werent seen as capital ships by that point
runic ermine
carriers werent seen as capital ships by that point
Ok good point but someone must have thought "the big platform with planes on it is gonna be a target"
And escorts existed way before CVs
desert agate
Akagi and Kaga carried about the same number of planes
grave ravine
carriers werent seen as capital ships by that point
That kinda varied from country to country
desert agate
Kaga had more operational aircraft Akagi had a larger reserve
grave ravine
But yeah carriers weren't viewed as the arm of decision at the time
runic ermine
Akagi and Kaga carried about the same number of planes
I think kaga was the one who carried a few more
runic ermine
Kaga had more operational aircraft Akagi had a larger reserve
Ah
desert agate
72 + 18 reserve for Kaga
66 + 25 reserve for Akagi
so Akagi actually carries a single more plane
runic ermine
But yeah carriers weren't viewed as the arm of decision at the time
Because they were still working things out. I just wanna know why the hell someone thought that torps would be a good idea
desert agate
Ok good point but someone must have thought "the big platform with planes on it ...
again, no one had any idea how useful planes were in naval combat
runic ermine
so Akagi actually carries a single more plane
Almost nothing
desert agate
id note that this was just a few years after the disastrous Mitchell tests
grave ravine
Because they were still working things out. I just wanna know why the hell someo...
I mean even through the war in the Mediterranean battleships really remained the decisive assets
desert agate
the conversions were really the exceptions to the rule, the majority of carriers were around cruiser sized
runic ermine
I mean even through the war in the Mediterranean battleships really remained the...
True. Italy didn't even finish their two CVs
runic ermine
the conversions were really the exceptions to the rule, the majority of carriers...
Oh I see so they thought they'd act similar to cruisers but with aircraft
desert agate
that was how a lot of navies felt
runic ermine
that was how a lot of navies felt
I guess it kinda makes sense since they probably say BBs as capital ships and anything else as support
desert agate
ideas changed regularly and by the 30s the more modern concepts of a fleet carrier existed in the major fleets, the Italians and Germans who lagged behind were going to build more 20s style concepts
Zeppelin and Aquila were both atrocious ships compared to their contemporaries, but given how neither fleet had carrier experience it made some sense
runic ermine
ideas changed regularly and by the 30s the more modern concepts of a fleet carri...
Yet Italy still had a more successful navy
grave ravine
Though even when modern fleet carriers were being built by the big three in the 30s, they were still viewed as attritional assets rather than the arm of decision
desert agate
the Italians performed very well with their fleet
runic ermine
Zeppelin and Aquila were both atrocious ships compared to their contemporaries, ...
And Aquila's sister was also 20s style?
runic ermine
the Italians performed very well with their fleet
Especially when they were facing the royal navy
desert agate
aquila didnt have a sister
there was another attempted conversion
but it was almost completely different to aquila
runic ermine
there was another attempted conversion
Weren't the two conversion ships sister ships?
desert agate
they were but the conversions were completely different
would be apt to call them half sisters
runic ermine
would be apt to call them half sisters
Kinda like Akagi and Kaga
desert agate
Akagi and Kaga arent even related beyond similar fittings
Akagi was a battlecruiser conversion, Kaga a battleship
runic ermine
Also I wonder if Sparviero will become a shipgirl
desert agate
Correct although kagas rebuild left her without much of her battleship heritage left
runic ermine
Correct although kagas rebuild left her without much of her battleship heritage ...
I think Béarn was also similar
desert agate
She was lengthened, had a new powerplant installed and had a lot of material that was intended for Amagi fitted to her
runic ermine
Converted Normandy class BB
runic ermine
Interesting
desert agate
Bearn was a conversion of questionable viability however she gave the French navy valuable experience which they would have been able to leverage were it not for the German invasion
Pretty much none of the so called 1st generation of carriers was particularly useful in the long run but the experience gained from them was invaluable
wintry moat
The 1sts of technology usually seem themselves outpaced
solid mango
I love french shipbuilding
alpine onyx
ideas changed regularly and by the 30s the more modern concepts of a fleet carri...
With how Graf Zeppelin was largely inspired by triple deck Akagi (iirc the research commission missed the start of the modernization blueprints by a matter of a few weeks) I'd argue that the Germans still did a good job in sorting out the most problematic bits (non-full length deck due to turrets, weird funnel, single flight deck)
alpine onyx
The persistence to keep 15cm guns until her hull was like 50% completed was a problem, but as she still had comparable or larger hangar volume/hangar floor area compared to all USN CVs (Midway excluded) it didn't cut too deep into her hangar decks, and mostly just meant more cluttered magazines
spring briar
I love french shipbuilding
This is a sketch by a non-French author of a ship that would have had a richelieu or gascogne layout, not whatever this is
subtle prawn
Le Malin coming alongside the fast battleship Dunkerque during an underway replenishment exercise on 22 March 1940. (Philippe Caresse collection)
runic ermine
Bearn was a conversion of questionable viability however she gave the French nav...
I can't deny that. Early designs help us make improvements on future ships
median osprey
Does anyone have any good British navy ww2 books because I need to read some for a paper for college
eternal veldt
What exactly on the Royal Navy are you looking for?
The response gets as narrow down to general naval development, doctrine, or even operational history.
median osprey
Like about Hood, Princes of Wales, Warspite. @eternal veldt
eternal veldt
Friedman's British Battleships, RA Burt's British battleships 1919-1945 are good starters.
Anatomy of the ship for Hood and Warspite if you want the extra spicy details.
Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse examines the loss of both ships as part of Force Z.
solid mango
This is a sketch by a non-French author of a ship that would have had a richelie...
I don cur, I wan mor 
strong mountain
manic latch
strong mountain
no frenchie for you
fierce sparrow
strong mountain
solid mango
ivory ridge
frozen kestrel
I love french shipbuilding
solid mango
solid mango
I sad now, need moar french cursed bote plox 🙏
static turtle
I love french shipbuilding
What is the curved rail thing that goes over the deck between the towers?
solid mango
What is the curved rail thing that goes over the deck between the towers?
Seeing how it travels to the aircraft catapult in the back....
ivory ridge
a rail for the plane
solid mango
ivory ridge
put it on the rail
static turtle
Yea I sea
ivory ridge
and then go to the back
static turtle
That seems inconvinint
ivory ridge
you can even see the crane
ivory ridge
it's what the french based the last 2 of these on
solid mango
ivory ridge
solid mango
Y e s
autumn sorrel
what are they cooking
Gun, lots of guns
runic ermine
https://fxtwitter.com/Fincantieri/status/1728076580486848891
Nice
subtle prawn
mystic basin
HOLY SHIT
manic latch
swift silo
For those who've not seen it yet. IMO the report basically flipped the general story for November 12-13, 1942 on it's head. There's a lot more friendly fire posited in here than I was expecting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kK9hkbHS5g
mystic basin
Likely US
swift silo
They're counting 11 possible friendly fire incidents for the US (up from a previous 1) and 1 for the Japanese from a previous none
manic latch
@tough quail
swift silo
They're counting 11 possible friendly fire incidents for the US (up from a previ...
@wintry moat
wintry moat
Damn
swift silo
Yup
swift silo
I'm actually in the middle of trying to piece together Laffey's full service history and all I can say is that I'm glad I'm not to that battle yet. Otherwise I'd have to completely redo that section.
wintry moat
cool
strong plank
Laffey’s service history like
ends at Guadalcanal doesn’t it
Unless you mean the other one
swift silo
I guess that also reopens the possibility that LtJG Evins wasn't mistaken in being hit by a cruiser instead of Kirishima. Shit
swift silo
Unless you mean the other one
No you got the right one. But there's like 8 months before that that no one talks about
Which, tbf, a lot of it is escort work for various carriers and convoys according to the deck logs I've read so far.
Those carriers being Saratoga, Long Island, and Wasp, in that order.
grave ravine
For those who've not seen it yet. IMO the report basically flipped the general s...
Glad Drach finally made a video on that, word will finally get around about it
I've posted about Lundgren's work a number of times on this channel and elsewhere
In particular it's interesting because the fact that the US effectively won the actual exchange of fire, before the many friendly fire incidents, vindicates somewhat the US decision to commit Callaghan's cruiser force against the Japanese battleships
I'd note however that I disagree somewhat with Lundgren's analysis of the strategic picture and lead up to the battle
swift silo
I'm definitely gonna have to take a day or so to just read through it.
I'm gonna have to anyway for this Laffey history thing, but I'm really gonna have to to see how much it actually changes
grave ravine
It's eye opening, and it's nice because it fills a lot of the holes in the record where you just wonder what a ship is doing
Though there are still some parts that don't really jive very well
It's clearly a lot better than the previous record
Also nicely enough someone has been slowly updating all the wiki pages with Lundgren's work
runic ermine
I'm gonna have to anyway for this Laffey history thing, but I'm really gonna hav...
What happened
swift silo
What happened
runic ermine
This did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kK9hkbHS5g
A new analysis
swift silo
Yes
grave ravine
The analysis is here http://www.navweaps.com/index_lundgren/index_lundgren.php
It's the pdf titled Naval Battle of Henderson Field
@runic ermine
remote monolith
@maiden citrushttps://vxtwitter.com/dustydino/status/1728126673042960441?s=20
he's gonna do a John Hammond
maiden citrus
aw yis
junior trench
runic ermine
Cool
manic latch
The French Ministry of Armed Forces reported that the Dassault nEUROn stealth jet UAV (photo), which has been in development for a long time, is planned to be integrated as a “faithful wingman” into the weapons complex of the promising F5 modification of the Dassault Rafale fighter. The development of the Rafale F5 and its weapon system, including a UAV and a long-range anti-radar missile based on the advanced FMAN/FMC cruise missile, is included in the military programming law for 2024-2030
subtle prawn
runic ermine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns5mNDct-bI
To make a long story short: OIL
strong plank
No not at all
it seems obvious to us 20 years later but back in 2003 the fear of Iraq developing the capability to hit the US with a WMD was genuine
manic latch
strong plank
and so when the intelligence community got their hands on an unreliable witness and misinterpreted SIGINT, they committed what was arguably the greatest intelligence failure since Dec 7 1941 and told the White House and the world that Iraq was ‘without a doubt’ developing nuclear and/or chemical weapons
The oil myth is just that: a myth
manic latch
and so when the intelligence community got their hands on an unreliable witness ...
Failure or overlooked 
strong plank
It was a failure
so after the 1991 Gulf War, UN inspectors were sent into Iraq, and they uncovered chemical weapons programs that the U.S. didn’t even know existed
The fact that Iraq was able to keep these programs secret scared the hell out of the intelligence community
fast forward to the 2000s and Saddam, despite not being able to develop chemical weapons under threat of sanctions by the UN, still acts like he is
the intelligence agencies (CIA, DIA, etc) remember what they missed in 1991 and they start seeing evidence where it doesn’t exist
Metal tubes for grad rockets look like centrifuge parts (despite experts testifying that they couldn’t be)
any doubts get pushed aside with the reasoning being “well they were able to hide it from us before”
What they didn’t realize was Saddam was posturing - he was pretending to still have these capabilities to appear strong to Iraq’s neighbors and to prevent challenges to his regime
The intel community basically became convinced that he had to have revived these programs - a lack of evidence didn’t mean they weren’t, it meant that Iraq was just really good at keeping it hidden
and the rest is history
runic ermine
No not at all
Also removing a dictator was also a pretty big part
strong plank
You didn’t read any of that did you
runic ermine
You didn’t read any of that did you
No I did
subtle prawn
While visiting HMNB Portsmouth in 1949, USS Missouri (BB-63) tried to be a good host to the enthusiastic locals who toured the battleship, but the British were horrified when they saw a Navy cook making tea for them by boiling gallons of it in a huge mess cauldron. One of the guests later sent the Missouri's captain a note with instructions on how to properly brew tea using teapots.
runic ermine
> While visiting HMNB Portsmouth in 1949, USS Missouri (BB-63) tried to be a goo...
Lmao
autumn sorrel
so after the 1991 Gulf War, UN inspectors were sent into Iraq, and they uncovere...
Didn’t US tacitly approve Iraq chemical weapon program during Iran-Iraq war?
strong plank
depends on what you mean by approve
They knew about them and their use
but the US wasn’t really pro-Iraq as much as it was anti-Iran
while trying to keep Iraq from dragging them into the conflict (ironically by getting more involved a la the tanker war)
wild tendon
I don't know much about submarines post world war 2
all I know is that they could house ballistic missiles
does anybody know any good resources (preferably youtube video format) that are informative in regards to the anti ship capabilities of US Submarines post world war 2?
autumn sorrel
does anybody know any good resources (preferably youtube video format) that are ...
Depend on the era but early cold war sub still use torp as the primarily mean to kill other warship
grave ravine
Modern submarines still by and large use the heavyweight torpedo as their primary weapon
shrewd pecan
Modern submarines employ primarily either guided torpedoes or torpedo tube launched missiles
runic ermine
but the US wasn’t really pro-Iraq as much as it was anti-Iran
On that topic, didn't anti french sentiment rise in the USA around the time of the Iraq War because France had said that they weren't going to participate
manic latch
White flag meme ye
runic ermine
White flag meme ye
And Freedom Fries
autumn sorrel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_(missile)
Man, I wish they actually develop a sub based variant of KH-35 for Kilo
US can do it but Russian prefer super sonic for some reason
runic ermine
Man, I wish they actually develop a sub based variant of KH-35 for Kilo
Speaking of the Kilo class. That Rostov-on-Don is a pretty resilient sub
autumn sorrel
Nah, it can be fix but it much more practical to build a new ship than try to fix it
desert agate
its rarely discussed outside of Australia
zealous vine
Why were there more issues with Nelsons' 16" as compared to 16" of the Americans?
desert agate
a replica of her island can be found in the WA Maritime museum
zealous vine
(let's take Colorado 16" for ref)
manic latch
Why were there more issues with Nelsons' 16" as compared to 16" of the Americans...
Bad design
Combined with uhh
"From inadequate firing trials, a mistaken theory was promulgated by the Director of Naval Ordnance (DNO) that held that a high-velocity, low-weight projectile would have superior armor penetration characteristics at large oblique angles of impact, a conclusion which was the opposite of previous findings. This theory was not substantiated by later trials, but these took place too late to affect the decision to use a lightweight APC projectile for new designs. As a result, these guns proved to be only marginally better in terms of armor penetration than the previous 15"/42 (38.1 cm) Mark I and much less satisfactory than those older guns in terms of accuracy and barrel life."
So it was just unlucky 406mm
Ruined by treaty (had to be modified for Nelsons, was design for G3 class originally)
And ruined more by this false theory
zealous vine
"From inadequate firing trials, a mistaken theory was promulgated by the Directo...
👍
Did Japan really have the capacity to make 20" guns, and manage the logistics behind it?
and are there still findings about these types of Japanese late-war, naval projects today?
manic latch
Did Japan really have the capacity to make 20" guns, and manage the logistics be...
it appears that two guns and one gun mount were ordered from Kure Navy Yard in June 1941. Construction was halted with the start of the Pacific War at which time the first gun was having its breech fitted and the second gun completed up to the 4A tube. The gun mount and the fittings were mostly complete but unassembled. All of these were left as they were and no further work was undertaken during the war.
So ye
wire winding
@spring briar @tough quail
The thinking of French foreign policy for centuries, since Richelieu's time, was brought up on the creation in Europe of such conditions of fragmentation, irregularity and non-defense. As a result of the work of French policy, the ideas of which culminated in the Versailles "peace" treaty, the whole of middle Europe - Germany, Poland, Czecho-Slovakia, etc., are put in conditions that exclude defense and positionality. France's vassals are skillfully placed in the position of squirrels who must spin the wheel of militarism. The art of French politics lies in the willful creation of unstable positions. Hence the short-lived nature of this creation. The definite idea of the Treaty of Versailles - to create a non-defensible position for Germany - makes it physically necessary for Germany to prepare for offensive operations. Poland will still have an opportunity to consider how she should thank France for the gift of the Danzig corridor, which provides Poland with primacy against a German strike.
-Clemenceau, Azur lane
zealous vine
it appears that two guns and one gun mount were ordered from Kure Navy Yard in J...
👍
manic latch
See thing is
Guns aren't that hard to build
Germans build 533mm naval gun for example
Keeping the gun reliable and good is the hard part
Especially for barrel life
autumn sorrel
Well, either you make a thick barrel but weigh too damn much or make thinner one and risk accident
manic latch
?
runic ermine
Anyone here study the war of 1812?
unkempt sedge
spring briar
“Stolen”
rapid junco
Today is the launch day of Warspite
She's now 110 years old
summer pendant
Today is the launch day of Warspite
She's now 110 years old
War Corgi
remote monolith
Troodontids are likely to be at least partially herbivorous
damn there goes 20 years of carnivorous troodon tropes
silver crest
i just realized
why did the imperial japanese army call everything a type 94?
from the pistol to their trucks
it's a type 94
junior trench
"lol look it's all M1"-dummies when they run into an M1939
junior trench
ivory ridge
the type 94 tankette started production in 1935 but close enough
eternal veldt
spring briar
Mine?
eternal veldt
Nein
spring briar
manic latch
I like the Postdam
tight violet
Yknow
Hearing how israel didnt get their chieftains and thus had to create the merkava, im really curious as to what the israeli chieftains would have evolved into
manic latch
Yknow
Hearing how israel didnt get their chieftains and thus had to create the m...
Look at their M60s
Copy their upgrades
junior trench
replacing the awful engine with an AVDS
autumn sorrel
And add ERA all over the turret
manic latch
And add ERA all over the turret
There is better
Chieftain 800
British Chobham armor
800hp version of the Perkins Condor CV12 V12 diesel engine, paired with a modified (fully automatic) David Brown Defence Equipment TN12-1000 transmission
spring briar
I like the Postdam
runic ermine
My favorite is probably the brown bess
runic ermine
Sadly brown bess has no barrel bands
Eh not that much of a problem
spring briar
Eh it can definitely be a big problem
ivory ridge
Im not even sure how to read this
alpine onyx
that looks very good
spring briar
Where shells
frozen kestrel
Ah yes, the pistol that goes off if you pick it up the wrong way
runic ermine
Ah yes, the pistol that goes off if you pick it up the wrong way
The safety on it also wasnt made properly
tbh japan made a lot of terrible pistols
frozen kestrel
The seemed to have an odd affinity for calling things the Type 94
This meme I've got perfectly sums it up:
runic ermine
The seemed to have an odd affinity for calling things the Type 94
They were probably just producing a lot of military equipment that year
runic ermine
https://fxtwitter.com/BAESystemsInc/status/1729154374725747039
Tax dollars well spent
shrewd pecan
I swear if the M109 makes it long enough for a M109A8 to become a thing
damn thing should of been replaced 30 years ago
grave ravine
damn thing should of been replaced 30 years ago
With the 52 caliber gun M109 would be fine for a while, and it's an upgrade that would be fairly cheap to roll out if the army opts for it
It would make a decent low end supplement for ERCA
unkempt sedge
subtle prawn
ivory ridge
ivory ridge
ivory ridge
DM is 21k tons full, Napoli is 27k tons full
"Couple thousand tons heavier"
And standard is still like 5k tons difference
maiden citrus
omaha is only a couple thousand tons heavier than a clemson
ivory ridge
Truly
grave ravine
A Fletcher is only a couple thousand tons heavier than a motorboat
ivory ridge
manic latch
Kronshtadt is only a couple thousand tons heavier than a Richelieu
dusty kraken
an Iowa is only a couple thousand tons heavier than me
runic ermine
Kronshtadt is only a couple thousand tons heavier than a Richelieu
Isn't Kronshtadt a BC?
manic latch
Isn't Kronshtadt a BC?
She is
Dish likely wanted to give her largest breasts to joke on how needlessly heavy she were
No idea what gives her such weight, either her machinery or armor plate sizes
maiden citrus
probably machinery
runic ermine
probably machinery
what kind because if we had specifics we count calculate
runic ermine
Because that quickly balloons the weight
what about her turrets?
alpine onyx
I don't have precise figures for Kron
Tho having spent some time digging through German designs, I do know a thing or two on what can increase weight dramatically
runic ermine
Tho having spent some time digging through German designs, I do know a thing or ...
turrets
manic latch
what about her turrets?
It appears that
%35.1 of Kronshtadt's weight goes to armor
maiden citrus
not bad
runic ermine
%35.1 of Kronshtadt's weight goes to armor
interesting
manic latch
runic ermine
<a:Kronksnow:1058428293658988574>
I do wanna know how heavy her turrets were tho
tough quail
does she just have the Stalingrad thing going on I didn't know about
where they basically armor the whole goddamn hull
runic ermine
where they basically armor the whole goddamn hull
soviet engineering
maiden citrus
if it isn't above 40% armor by weight, is it truly armored
tough quail
Stalingrad HE proofing the entire hull is incredibly based
they got it to 35kn and absolutely fucking refuse to go under it
manic latch
Stalingrad HE proofing the entire hull is incredibly based
Among Soviet naval community its called Tsushima syndrome
Where every part of the ship needs some kind of armor to prevent HE
Soyuz is best example
tough quail
if you're going to put in enough weight to make a battleship hit 35kn you might as well go all the way in preserving that speed baby
runic ermine
Among Soviet naval community its called Tsushima syndrome
at least the Russians got their revenge. Twice
manic latch
if you're going to put in enough weight to make a battleship hit 35kn you might ...
Stalingrad ain't BB
She will be vanguard when added to AL
@tough quail Armor option choices for Soyuz's belt
They choose Option 2
At least 5 different thickness on same belt instead one single value
I think you know why Horse
runic ermine
<@84008086733324288> Armor option choices for Soyuz's belt
but what will the rarities of her sisters be?
manic latch
but what will the rarities of her sisters be?
Essex sisters are both UR and Gold
So up to Manjuu
If character is important in lore then it might pop up as UR like York II or Bis II
runic ermine
well i do want Sovetskaya Belorussiya
manic latch
ivory ridge
manic latch
<@84008086733324288> Armor option choices for Soyuz's belt
This is why Horse 
Reason her main armor belt along its entire length at
course angles of 40-50 ° and the forward
of the citadel (taking into account
other armor of the bow end) through whole belt did not penetrate by a 406-mm shell
with distances over 16-15km
She used tank armor slope logic
So Soyuz would, instead like other BBs who showed broadside mostly, would stay at this 40-50° angle
Because it gave her the strongest defense
Nothing can hurt her no more
runic ermine
We have it
i dont
ivory ridge
skill issue
manic latch
I want swan lake theme
White Swan Soyuz
Prince Siegfried Clem
Baron von Rothbart Marco skins when
supple sandal
The video: during ww2 the Soviet did well actually
The comments section: but the lean leas-
runic ermine
The video: during ww2 the Soviet did well actually
The comments section: but th...
tbh idk which country had the worst preformance
id say Vichy France or Iraq but idk if that's fair
Italy had successes
France is usually over exaggerated
manic latch
I never forgave France
Maybe Soyuz would reach launch stage if France resisted 2 years or so with British
ivory ridge
krill issue
ivory ridge
maiden citrus
I would lend lease a New York Cheesecake with Lemon top
coming right up sir
manic latch
runic ermine
https://fxtwitter.com/RyszardJonski/status/1729491758789099848
nice
ivory ridge
-An unlicensed copy of the OTO Melara 76mm.
-An unlicensed copy of the Bofors 40mm.
-An unlicensed copy of the C-802 (export version of the Saccade).
-based on a 1960s British design (Vosper Mk5)
Welcome to 1960, Iranian navy 
https://fxtwitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/1729472030003589486
spring briar
Maybe Soyuz would reach launch stage if France resisted 2 years or so with Briti...
Maybe if the Soviets actually prepared correctly and kept the Germans out of Leningrad
manic latch
Maybe if the Soviets actually prepared correctly and kept the Germans out of Len...
Well
Germans never entered Leningrad
manic latch
-An unlicensed copy of the OTO Melara 76mm.
-An unlicensed copy of the Bofors 40...
Sad but
Still a thing
Model had VLS and smh else
So maybe for future
spring briar
Germans never entered Leningrad
the city she was in was besieged
and she herself was bombed
meaning they went atleast close enough
don't be so eager to hand out judgement
manic latch
Yes they also used 520mm Mortars they captured from France in Leningrad
manic latch
ivory ridge
Don't siege Leningrad, take it immediately
strong plank
so true
shrewd pecan
here have the cursed arsenals
subtle prawn
American Kiev-esque cruiser
rapid junco
subtle prawn
North Carolina preliminary Scheme F
somber knoll
North Carolina preliminary Scheme F
wild
remote monolith
welp here goes another round
and this paper will likely get criticized as well
like every other paper discounting or denying Chixculub was the definitive cause for extinction
autumn sorrel
So, what are they arguing that can stand toe to toe to a big ass space rock in killing dino?
remote monolith
So, what are they arguing that can stand toe to toe to a big ass space rock in k...
volcanism, which is the old prevailing theory and there's still some paleontologists stanning for it
I'm talking like, 40-70s old
well before Alvarez found that giant crater in Chixculub that provides conclusive evidence of space rock doing oof
the Deccan Traps is known to have happened, but its contribution to mass extinction has been doubted considering dinosaur diversity was actually increasing during the Maastrichtian up until the cosmic freak accident happen
at best it might have caused some dip in local Indian dinosaur diversity
autumn sorrel
So they are arguing which one fuck the climate more? 
remote monolith
more or less
for some reason there's a certain subset of paleontologists that insist on maintaining asteroid impacts never cause significant changes in earth's history and that most of the work is from volcanic activities
which, ok, volcanic activities does contribute to dips in ecological diversities in multiple extinction events, but that doesn't mean other factors can't be in play
hell we're NOW is causing a mass extinction without any volcanic inputs
somber knoll
volcanism, which is the old prevailing theory and there's still some paleontolog...
Even if you count the mega volcano eruptions like the pre-Krakataus and Toba, it will need multiple boom, which can only happen due to simultaneous Earth surface disruption.
remote monolith
vastly larger than Toba or Krakatoa, we're talking entire regions exploding for several million of years spewing magma and sulphur all the while, as happened in Siberia and the Deccans. Of the two only the Siberian Traps is conclusively proven to have caused a gigantic mass extinction
somber knoll
The Deccans is sort of like the Emeishan Traps tbf. smaller in scale but still contributed to the Permian mass extinction
remote monolith
the Deccans might have contributed to local extinctions yes, but its contributions to the extinction is dubious, not least since as been said before biodiversity of dinosaurs up until the Impact wasn't reducing, but increasing
the dip was mostly noticed in Ornithopod diversity, which could be explained by Hadrosaurs driving competing species to extinction rather than the Deccans
somber knoll
interesting.
junior trench
I'm too lazy to look it up rn
But
Can an asteroid impact initiate volcanic activity far beyond its immediate area
If things are already primed and building pressure
somber knoll
Can an asteroid impact initiate volcanic activity far beyond its immediate area
https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/large-impacts-may-cause-volcanic-eruptions/
Tl;dr, yes
junior trench
Aight
So what's the chance that with the fuzziness of dating things that far back, at least of the volcanism was initiated by the asteroid
remote monolith
there was a hypothesis about that yes
in 2015 a paper floated the possibility that since Chixculub and the Deccan Traps happened roughly at an antipode to each other, the Impact may have sent shocks to the other side of the earth big enough to induce or worsen the Deccan Traps
tsk, paper is locked by moolah https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aac7549
thorn trail
iirc impact events is also a candidate theory for why the Siberian Traps exploded
remote monolith
its been proposed several times but there's no storng evidence for and plenty against
for now it seems Permian is firmly from volcanism
unkempt sedge
subtle prawn
supple sandal
These two guys are supposed to be American?
supple sandal
The current pacifist Japan wouldn't like this
strong plank
These two guys are supposed to be American?
I would say so, he's a professor at my university
last I checked citizenship was about which country you are a citizen of
not what your last name is
autumn sorrel
not what your last name is
But their name don't sound like northern China name, sound a bit more south or Taiwanese
strong plank
Prof. Cheng is from Taiwan, yes
but he got his PHD at Berkeley and teaches in the US
and has done so for a long while
tough quail
local man discovers immigration exists
subtle prawn
rapid junco
These two guys are supposed to be American?
Probably
I mean, when reading through Brazilian Naval History i found sooo many Brazilians with gringo sounding names
thorny patio
I can't not make a joke here
Humans went from:
Rowboats-->sailboats-->steamboats-->coal/oil-poweredboats-->nuclearboats...AND THEN BACK TO SAILBOATS
Also that ship looks fuckin ugly as sin imo
I mean... The hull is fine... The "sails" make it awful
cinder escarp
Coal, oil-boiler, and nuclear boats... are all just steamboats as well.
The whole meme about "it's all just boiling water" is true.
Also unrelated, but the brits never figured out quick-change barrels for cannon. Dare to compare here.
autumn sorrel
Hmm, I have words to describe Kissenger that might go over board
gentle merlin
These two guys are supposed to be American?
Can they not be American?
spiral cedar
I guess my American license has been revoked
maiden citrus
I grant you the a word pass jaba
past laurel
@autumn sorrel
https://tenor.com/view/4-cr-gif-7446023702912147052
junior trench
Probably
I mean, when reading through Brazilian Naval History i found sooo many ...
Local man discovers Brazil was the nexus of the Portuguese empire for a shockingly long time
Brazil almost became the wish.com version Code Geass Britannia
It's honestly comical
cinder escarp
Portugal is now even adopting Brazilian spellings over their own for words
remote monolith
you ever wonder how this arrangement is evolutionarily advantageous to one's survival
maiden citrus
chonky
autumn sorrel
you ever wonder how this arrangement is evolutionarily advantageous to one's sur...
More body fat?
manic latch
Sit on enemy
unborn wyvern
I made this in Arma 3 in honor of a particular Airforce Col. Who didn't know or particularly care much about the bradley IFV
runic ermine
Funny story: After the Battle of the Scheldt, British general Bernard Montgomery bestowed the nickname "Water Rats" on the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division which was a play on the Desert Rats title the 7th Armoured Division had earned during the Western Desert Campaign. Canadian General Harry Crerar reportedly hated the term, though it was meant as a tribute to their success in amphibious operations in Normandy and the Scheldt
autumn sorrel
I made this in Arma 3 in honor of a particular Airforce Col. Who didn't know or ...
The movie is complete fiction, mind you
wintry moat
The real story is him basically fucking around hitting Bradley’s with AT weapons
and acting like it was surprising when it was broken
junior trench
and then acting shocked when the Army took steps to reduce the danger of penetrations
as if they're cheating
by...
checks notes
modifying the design for surviviability like he was allegedly trying to advocate for
unborn wyvern
Also totally misunderstanding the meaning of the point-by-point testing done by the ballistics research laboratory. The whole vaporifics test was intended to see if aluminum, if struck by anti-tank weapons, creates toxic fumes and/or spalling
You can't test for toxic fumes and spall on melted aluminum goop
junior trench
it's also hard to test for vapors specifically from the armor if miscellaneous material inside the vehicle burns
wintry moat
The amount of times this happens
Where x ship took a torp and was nearly killed….yeah anyway it made it home
supple sandal
subtle prawn
supple sandal
I remember someone made video about the same event
But the video is "was strategic bombing effective"
And the video is sponsored by the Naval Institute
supple sandal
manic latch
US and USSR fans when a Wehraboo appears
runic ermine
US and USSR fans when a Wehraboo appears
What about a tojoboo?
strong mountain
Busy commiting warcrimes against bodypillows in the californian desert
runic ermine
A German meets a fairy who is stuck in thorns
It said: Can you help me?
The German answered: What do I get?
The fairy said: You will have a wish fulfilled!
So the German helps her and wished to be a prince who lives in a great castle with an beautiful princess. Then he falls asleep.
When he wakes up, a beautiful princess is looking at him. He is in a beautiful castle.
The princess said: Time to wake up Franz Ferdinand, we are going to Sarajevo
spiral cedar
runic ermine
Cursed
wintry moat
The cursed timeline
unkempt sedge
runic ermine
https://youtu.be/GUsa9Tc-NGM?si=UyczvC-cxN45D8E-
spiral cedar
@alpine onyx @eternal veldt I know not everything about this diagram is correct, but I can't find the info I'm looking for on invenio so I turn to y'all for help.
I'm trying to piece together Bismarck's transverse protection (bow and stern angle "raking" shots") against shots through the bow/stern into the citadel portion. As best as I can tell, for the forward bulkhead, it is 35mm outer hull (probably Wh, maybe Sbs III?) + 145mm KC n/A above the armored deck level, and 60mm Wh forward waterline belt + 220mm KC n/A forward transverse armor bulkhead. Then for the stern, it is the same, except the aft waterline belt is 80mm Wh instead of 60mm. Any corrections to this? I know there are structural decks present as well, but it seems they should only be involved if the initial impact is closer to the centerline than to the outboard regions, which would allow for more time to the shell to descend and intersect a deck.
(Also, just to confirm, is 110mm on the magazine deck slopes and 100mm on the magazine deck flats the best up to date info?)
spiral cedar
maiden citrus
spring briar
solid mango
eternal veldt
<@285676892290285569> <@301567539182567424> I know not everything about this dia...
Sirene's stomping ground, unfortunately. My job's bringing everything down.
subtle prawn
runic ermine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1EZ55_F7xk
yesn't
they attacked because they wanted to sink the US pacific fleet so that their expansion into east asia would be easier and do the co-asia prosperity sphere (very ironic name)
and the US stopped oil shippments to japan due to their invasion of china
and war crimes in china
subtle prawn
wintry moat
I always heard the IS-2 was a decent heavy
had its faults
but for a Soviet WW2 tank
it was good
subtle prawn
tough quail
there's a lot of videos there with click bait titles about ww2 Soviet stuff being shit
manic latch
there's a lot of videos there with click bait titles about ww2 Soviet stuff bein...
It gives most views
Lazerpig, Paper Skies, Not what you think(tho he also has takes in Western equipment), History of everything
manic latch
I always heard the IS-2 was a decent heavy
I would say it was the most EFFICENT heavy tank
US, Japan, Italy: No heavy tanks
UK: Churchills
Germany: Tiger 1 and 2
Tho Pershing used to be called heavy tank irrc
That one good
Kinda late but good
manic latch
....
Yes
That's the point
Or else US had couple heavy tank projects
Even Japan with Oi
tough quail
I would say it was the most EFFICENT heavy tank
unless you count casemates anyway
in which case I/SU-152 all day every day
ivory ridge
every tank is a tank hunter
runic ermine
US, Japan, Italy: No heavy tanks
UK: Churchills
Germany: Tiger 1 and 2
the P40 was classed by Italy and Germany as a heavy tank
runic ermine
26 ton heavy tank
im serious
subtle prawn
runic ermine
26 ton heavy tank
the P in P40 stood for pesante which means heavy in italian
cinder escarp
26 ton heavy tank
Italian weight classes were set on the assumption of yet another mountain war™️
And 26 tonnes really is a considerable amount for the mountain roads and bridges of that time.
(Similarly, Japanese weight classes were set with Japanese and island infrastructure in mind - they're actually pretty darn similar to Italian classes but a few tons more)
runic ermine
(Similarly, Japanese weight classes were set with Japanese and island infrastruc...
but italian actually made some good tanks
like the P40 and semovente line
cinder escarp
Japan made good tanks as well. They just had issues with getting them to production and service. Most tanks only showed up in JP service 2-3 years after actually being designed.
And in WW2, this meant they showed up in service now obsolete.
Main reason is that tanks were at the bottom of the industry & materials priority list
runic ermine
Japan made good tanks as well. They just had issues with getting them to product...
and i say that japan had bad tanks while having a lego type 89 on my desk
cinder escarp
AFV development was also hurt for 2-3 years (I want to say like 38/39 to 41?) as they had taken the wrong lesson from the Chinese theater: That horse calvary was more valuable than mechanized calvary, and so paused development.
runic ermine
AFV development was also hurt for 2-3 years (I want to say like 38/39 to 41?) as...
yet they still made a big ass AT rifle
the largest of ww2 actually
cinder escarp
That had been done before the pause, and they did keep producing developed stuff. It was just "pause new work, and don't expand production".
Just keep what was already in production running to keep the lines busy.
runic ermine
That had been done before the pause, and they did keep producing developed stuff...
true and i do understand that china had some tanks but still: Why such a big round?
cinder escarp
It's not a fancy bullet is why
runic ermine
20×125mm is MASSIVE
cinder escarp
so they have to just compensate with force
things like the 14.5mm have fancy cermet cores
runic ermine
for reference:
Boys ATR (both the British and Canadian variant): .55 boys
Panzerbüchse 38 and 39: 7.92×94mm patronen
Wz. 35: 7.92×107mm DS
PTRD and PTRS: 14.5×114mm
Lahti L-39: 20×138mmB
Solothurn S-18/100: 20×105mmB
36M 20mm Nehézpuska: 20×105mmB
runic ermine
Gurkhas and JSDF
cinder escarp
The thing with the Chi-He is a very funny example of IJA tankery. Program started in 1940. Final mock up built & approved, August '41. Prototype built between August/September '42, evaluations and testing lasted until June 43, where it was approved... LRIP production of 15 units however, was only February/march '44. Series production in earnest was April '44 and ran for 10 months, producing 155 vehicles - 15.5/mo (although it was very uneven.)
It would have been until April '44 the first whole unit could have been stood up with them, from a program began in 1940.
subtle prawn
somber knoll
About time
manic latch
J-16
manic latch
manic latch
@tough quail
frozen kestrel
That Phalanx was deciding whether or not the people on that plane got to see their families again
subtle prawn
tribal mortar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l85XLMK2WZM
CHIEFTAIN
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
tough quail
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/12/01/terminally-ill-army-vet-to-g...
my man knows the good things in life
solid mango
spiral cedar
<@285676892290285569> <@301567539182567424> I know not everything about this dia...
Giving an additional ping to @alpine onyx in case it was missed the first time
alpine onyx
Oh crap I forgot!
Okay, problem! That diagram is based off of an idential diagram in RM6 (upper naval command), and directly conflicts with the blueprints of Bismarck as they are drawn by the construction office.
There are a few values that will conflict here, most prominently the construction office gives a uniform 110mm turtleback vs the 120mm next to the magazines, as your pic shows it
Magazine deck armor is the same, construction office says 95mm, upper command says 100mm
And if you think the story ends there, wrong! The gkds 500 files give either an 80mm or a 110mm flat deck
Now, as for your specific question, to my best knowledge the 220mm bulkheads for the magazine are correct.
But with so much conflicting information within primary sources I cannot guarantee any values
Then again, unless someone dives or finds a specific paper from the manufacturer, I doubt there'll ever be 100% certainy on the value
But my call is 95mm magazine deck
As the horizontal armor blueprint is the most detailed source, and it follows the value on the ugly sisters
spiral cedar
Alright, thanks. Would you consider the 35mm upper hull plating above the waterline fore/aft belts correct?
And is there only one 20mm deck within the bow structure (just below the waterline), with the rest being thin material?
runic ermine
Video on the Mary Celeste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EPR4Ux-U6k
(best girl of Tempesta)
alpine onyx
The 35mm plating on the sides and 50mm on the weather deck are so far uniform across all sources
So safe to use those
The deck within the bow, I'll have to check again tomorrow what the blueprints say
I will do my best to remember it
subtle prawn
clear scroll
Hmmmmmm
spiral cedar
The deck within the bow, I'll have to check again tomorrow what the blueprints s...
Leaving the possible deck out for now, here are the thicknesses and rotation angles I'm using. Let me know when you have the time if I should make any corrections
-----
**Ship #1: Bismarck**
Machinery Side Belt ("Standard" comparison)
Rotation angle: 83-96 deg
Selected rotation: Rot 85, 90
Main belt - 12.6" KC w/ 1.97" wood and 0.63" Sbs III backing
Sloped deck - 4.33" Wh at 68 deg
Magazine Side Belt
Rotation angle: 78-81 deg, 97-101 deg
Selected rotation: Rot 80
Main belt - 12.6" KC w/ 1.97" wood and 0.63" Sbs III backing at 8 deg
Sloped deck - 4.33" Wh at 63 deg
Magazine Fore Bulkhead
Rotation angle: 0 deg bulkhead & 77 deg belt
Selected rotation: Rot 0 & Rot 77
Fore belt - 2.36" Wh
Fore bulkhead - 8.66" KC
Magazine Aft Bulkhead
Rotation angle: 180 deg bulkhead & 101 deg belt
Selected rotation: Rot 180 & Rot 101
Aft belt - 3.15" Wh
Aft bulkhead - 8.66" KC
Machinery Upper Belt
Rotation angle: 83-96 deg
Selected rotation: Rot 85, 90
Upper belt - 5.71" KC w/ 2" teak and 0.5" Sbs III backing
Main armor deck - 3.15" Wh
Magazine Upper Belt
Rotation angle: 78-81 deg, 97-101 deg
Selected rotation: Rot 80
Upper belt - 5.71" KC w/ 2" teak and 0.5" Sbs III backing
Main armor deck - 3.74" Wh
Machinery Flat Deck ("Standard" comparison)
Rotation angle: N/A
Selected rotation: N/A
Weather deck - 1.97" Wh
Second deck - 0.5" Sbs III
Main armor deck - 3.15" Wh
Magazine Flat Deck
Rotation angle: N/A
Selected rotation: N/A
Weather deck - 1.97" Wh
Second deck - 0.5" Sbs III
Main armor deck - 3.74" Wh
-----
For areas where angles transition smoothly, the angles chosen are "representative" slices rather than being best or worst case. Given I am using 5 deg increments for target angle, individual degrees aren't too important so long as it's somewhere in the middle of the range
For the magazine side belt, I think the "representative" portion was near Anton, since Bruno and Caesar are less different compared to the machinery and thus are harder to justify the duplication of effort for similar protection
I guess the fore and aft waterline belts probably have some incline to them, but idk what to assume for that for now
Given the likely impact energies and obliquities involved, I doubt it matters for this BB shell analysis, but it would be useful for future reference
spiral cedar
Been thinking about ways to demonstrate penetration probabilities with my charts
At 19000 yards, the US 16"/45 Mark 6 AP Mark 8 Mod 1 (early war fast BB shell) striking the magazine belt abreast Bismarck's Turret Anton at an 85 degree target angle (5 deg from broadside), assuming no roll or pitch, would be expected to penetrate the main belt (inclined at about 8 deg from vertical) with an exit velocity of 764 fps, before striking the sloped deck at about a 51.84 deg obliquity. The V50 NBL is 776 fps, so by my usual charts, the magazine spaces would be considered "immune" at this range. If we use Bill Jurens' 80/20 energy rule for penetration probability (80% of the necessary energy = 20% penetration probability), then the penetration probability at 764 fps (12 fps short of the V50 NBL) is about 45%.
For comparison, at 20000 yards the exit velocity from the belt is 705 fps, which is close to the V20 penetration velocity (20% pen chance) of 694 fps (the impact obliquity will be very slightly smaller in this case, but only on the order of less than a degree). This suggests that the 1000 yard change in range reduces the penetration probability by about 20-30 percent, and serves to give an idea of the "fuzziness" of the penetration probability around the nominal immune zones. If we assume the NBL is the same at 20k yards for the above reasons, the pen probability is about 23%.
The flip side, V80, is 850 fps, which is higher than the 18000 yard post-pen velocity of 819 fps (the impact obliquity on the sloped deck is only different by about 0.3 deg, so the NBL should be about the same). At 819 fps (18k yards), if the NBL is assumed the same as at 19k yards (should be close, as described above), the pen probability should be about 68%.
If we broaden our approximation a bit further (assuming the impact obliquity stays very close to 51.84°, which it should, to within a degree), then the pen probabilities from 17k to 21k yards are:
17 - 87%
18 - 68%
19 - 45% (nominally "immune")
20 - 23%
21 - 9%
Since the actual impact obliquity (on the sloped deck) does very slowly decrease as the range increases, the probabilities below 19k yards are very slightly too high, and above 19k yards, very slightly too low. However, since the post-pen exit angles at 17k and 21k yards are less than 0.5 degrees different, the difference is likely very small.
This is, of course, just the penetration probability for the sloped deck itself given all other factors are at nominal conditions (no roll, no pitch, no muzzle velocity variation, negligible relative closing rate, etc.)
But most of those factors are equally likely to help as to hurt the penetration, so at a statistical level they likely end up just somewhat widening the distribution of probabilities above
mental tapir
https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1731454307529015518
Jets in AL when
spiral cedar
(Muzzle velocity loss due to barrel wear isn't like that, of course, but that's a matter of the ship's condition at the time of firing moreso than something to include for all cases)
thick scarab
Qiu Chuji on his way to speak to Genghis Khan on why allowing his soldiers to cut down civilians for bathing is morally wrong again.
No joke, search this guy up, he was invited by Khan to offer his Taoist wisdom as a supposedly blessed and immortal monk of great renown. The monk tried many times to convince Genghis Khan to ease up on war crimes through careful phrasing and wording, Genghis Khan would always agree... then immediately lapse on the wisdom and continue as he would.
Qiu Chuji tried asking him to not order the death of civilians bathing in river because Mongols declared it as taboo, Genghis Khan fell off his horse while hunting a boar and the boar didn't attack him, Qiu tried telling him "This is a divine sign that you mustn't hunt anymore".
Both times Khan agreed fully, however his soldiers would still slaughter civilians and a couple months later Khan went hunting for Boar again.
Khan's a horrible person but holy fuck, his interactions with Qiu Chuji the Taoist monk are unreal
spiral cedar
Ah, here’s where I got the numbers
Seems that the 8 deg/63 deg belt/deck figures I picked are on the conservative side for changes from amidships
10 deg/58 deg may have been more representative
Is it worth redoing tho
spring briar
Mathematically? Ye
Statistically? No
Unless you subscribe to chaos theory and the butterfly effect
shy grail
Unless you subscribe to chaos theory and the butterfly effect
Tbf chaos theory can’t be modelled unless you have a hyperrealistic splinter generation post shell explosion, where small changes at that scale can dramatically affect damage sustained
clear scroll
Unless you subscribe to chaos theory and the butterfly effect
Better: Murphy's law
spring briar
Tbf chaos theory can’t be modelled unless you have a hyperrealistic splinter gen...
I am more referring to the small difference in impact angle but go off ig
fierce sparrow
shy grail
Just saying that calculative test such as these can’t illustrate chaos theory at all basically, as this is mainly a mathematical exercise of penetration of shell v armour
Something more appropriate to test would be something like POW’s delayed fuse managing to dive under Bismarck and explode, managing to flood 2nd Boiler room, although you still need to somehow model how the damage to the fuse would cause such a delay in the first place
junior trench
spring briar
Something more appropriate to test would be something like POW’s delayed fuse ma...
That would be Monte Carlo
shy grail
Yeah something like that
fierce sparrow
zealous vine
Has there been any tank design where all turret crews were set on one side, and the gun on the other?
(aside from turrets with 1 crew like the HSTV-L and other American light prototypes)
junior trench
zealous vine
Fair
zealous vine
Has there been any tank design where all turret crews were set on one side, and ...
And wouldn't this be more space efficient?
strong plank
Depends
Is the gun automatically loaded?
Otherwise that gunner’s going to have a very annoying time
solid mango
Why does it look like its all just organizedly thrown in there
spring briar
Leave twitter
ivory ridge
strong plank
"don't siege leningrad, take it immediately"
I love that there are still people who swear up and down that the soviets handled the war or parts of it completely on their own with no issues
when you can literally go back and read communications between the soviets and the other allies where they go "hey here's what we need"
ivory ridge
at least this person was honest without knowing
"how do you defeat japan without the US demolishing them"
"like they did IOTL"
"oh so by not doing it"
strong plank
like isn't Dresden the big example
where Britain and the US went for a target specifically to reduce pressure on the Soviets
hell even at their own request
ivory ridge
strong plank
unde you could make a really funny argument here
bc the japanese and soviets wouldn't be fighting without uh
you know
japan already tangling with the US and Britain in the pacific
clear scroll
I don't think the soviets and the allies were actually allied to begin with...more a mutual agreement
ivory ridge
strong plank
an alliance of convenience is still an alliance
ivory ridge
gee man, now tell me, why were the japanese desperate enough to even consider surrender? hmm
strong plank
US-soviet relations before ww2 were a little goofy
ivory ridge
muh soviet invasion crumbling the colonies several hundred of kilometers away from manchuria
clear scroll
Plus their supply lines collapsing due to the Americans, Aussies, and few British ships
In the end they couldn't get enough steel and oil in
strong plank
like you've got the first red scare in the late 1910s, largely a result of the russian revolution
and then on the other hand you've got poor popular knowledge of conditions within the soviet union
thanks walter duranty
clear scroll
I see
ivory ridge
killing myself rq
strong plank
mfw when I
ivory ridge
why am i even bothering with a burner account
strong plank
write an article denying the Holodomor and get a pulitzer prize for it
Describing the Communist plan to “liquidate” the five million kulaks, relatively well-off farmers opposed to the Soviet collectivization of agriculture, Duranty wrote in 1931, for example: “Must all of them and their families be physically abolished? Of course not – they must be ‘liquidated’ or melted in the hot fire of exile and labor into the proletarian mass.”
Taking Soviet propaganda at face value this way was completely misleading, as talking with ordinary Russians might have revealed even at the time. Duranty’s prize-winning articles quoted not a single one – only Stalin, who forced farmers all over the Soviet Union into collective farms and sent those who resisted to concentration camps. Collectivization was the main cause of a famine that killed millions of people in Ukraine, the Soviet breadbasket, in 1932 and 1933 – two years after Duranty won his prize.
Even then, Duranty dismissed more diligent writers’ reports that people were starving. “Conditions are bad, but there is no famine,” he wrote in a dispatch from Moscow in March of 1933 describing the “mess” of collectivization. “But – to put it brutally – you can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs.”
The Pulitzer Board declined to revoke the award and in 2003 said the articles which it examined in making the award did not contain "clear and convincing evidence of deliberate deception".
strong plank
reminds me of the guy that swore that lend lease didn't start until after stalingrad and therefore it made no difference
nevermind that we have pictures of mathildas and stuarts fighting in stalingrad
junior trench
the Soviet invasion of Manchuria... where the IJA successfully escaped
to prepared defenses
and the Soviets never made contact outside of a few holding actions
because they were too busy running out of fuel and getting lost
and most of the casualties numbers are from the Soviets war crime-ing their way through China so hard the CCP complained about it
after the surrender announcement
truly the stuff which makes a nation surrender
like
the Japanese knew the Soviet invasion was coming at some point
and planned for it
expected it
you don't think "it's time to surrender" because things are going according to plan
conversely the Japanese defensive strategy against the US relied upon being able to directly bleed the Americans in battle sufficiently to force a negotiated end to the war
actually
fuck it
wait one
clear scroll
Mmm
junior trench
blegh
what I was trying to transcribe wasn't as consolidated as I'd thought
but it's all the same refutations for the same Soviet Pacific War canards anyway
but I at least have this bit from a native Japanese speaker
It also ignores the whole part about the IJA looking at Manchuria as already a battle they weren't going to win with a Soviet Invasion from 1943, the defensive plans there were to cause as much casualties as possible and slow down the Soviets to begin with
The majority of the IJA managed to evacuate on plan to the Korean peninsula to hole up better operationally defensive positions rather than attempt to hold off the Soviets in open Manchuria, the political landscape of Japan in 1945 both does not include Manchuria as an overwhelmingly apocalyptic disaster and militarily does not have the August Storm Campaign as a disasterous IJA defeat
I've actually completely forgotten if anyone actually bothered to translate the records of court and governmental talkings after the Hiroshima and Nagasaki Bombings because there's a very funny tonal shift when the Japanese Government realized that Hiroshima was not a one off
and a genuine belief that the Japanese Empire was not going to heroically make a last stand and just be bombed by USAAC Bombers
it's really funny having her around because the "Soviets caused the surrender" thing utterly relies upon... not asking the japanese what happened
spring briar
the Japanese also had plans for mass producing and distribution of firearms to arm the entire population in place as well I think
which would contradict surrender by threat of a land invasion by the USSR
ivory ridge
spiral cedar
The Eastern Front was only one front. Losing it doesn't mean surrender.
spring briar
wouldn't it be the Western front for Japan
spiral cedar
No, I mean the Axis-Soviet front
fierce sparrow
tough quail
where were you when stalin fucked hirohitos mom
grave ravine
but I at least have this bit from a native Japanese speaker
> It also ignores th...
Our bro McDilda saying the US has 100 bombs and is going to flatten Tokyo and Kyoto next
maiden citrus
now that's some graade A cope to read through, just like the good ol days
supple shore
runic ermine
the Japanese also had plans for mass producing and distribution of firearms to a...
The national defense rifles
autumn sorrel
The national defense rifles
Which basically a blackpowder matchlock 
somber knoll
the Japanese also had plans for mass producing and distribution of firearms to a...
The Japanese Volkssturm would be quite... funni and ironic at the same time
albeit with muskets instead of the Kar98K
remote monolith
albeit with muskets instead of the Kar98K <:EssexWheeze:1113921620277461033>
US Marines when the Japanese volkssturm showed up in full Yari Ashigaru attire:
haughty osprey
With bamboo spears
manic latch
I love this whole
"Who fucked Japan worse" arguments of Tankies and Patriots
It actually would be equal to Roman Senators arguing tho who's stab that Caesar died to
maiden citrus
I mean it's the equivalent of saying siam won ww1 because the germans surrendered 2 months after their troops arrived
subtle prawn
remote monolith
maiden citrus
it be like that sometimes
supple sandal
What is the deal with Mark Felton
shrewd pecan
He’s the type of person to get a doctorate to cite himself
strong plank
He’s good at 1 thing and it’s reading off Wikipedia
subtle prawn
He did use to be better before he became a YouTuber apparently
desert agate
He writes good books
remote monolith
ok so hear me out
we know that parrots and corvids can mimic sounds, even up to human speech
therefore, its very conceivable that some non-avian dinosaurs, like maniraptorans, posesses the same ability
thus, in a scenario where non-avian dinosaurs lives there exist a possibility of people disappearing into the woods or into caves after they hear someone calling for help
and they get found days later as eaten piles of meat beside a Deinonychus
maiden citrus
that is an unsettling but true possibility
remote monolith
remember, we can quite easily scale up some of the modern bird's behaviors to certain type of dinosaurs. Of course the more specialized birds might have no non-avian equivalent, but the general idea is there
so the more unsettling behaviors was likely present
runic ermine
Which basically a blackpowder matchlock <:EssexWheeze:1113921620277461033>
or a board of wood with a barrel
frozen kestrel
or a board of wood with a barrel
I'm gonna send this to Brandon Herrera now
junior trench
the percussion cap black powder smoothbores are funnier
the plank is still singleshot bolt action
this is black powder muzzle loader firing short chunks of rebar
dusty kraken
US Marines when the Japanese volkssturm showed up in full Yari Ashigaru attire:
They just gotta enable Yari Wall when the US Marines are landing on the beaches gg ez
subtle prawn
cinder escarp
rolls into Stalingrad with sturmtigers
glass trail
I don't think the soviets and the allies were actually allied to begin with...mo...
iirc the soviets actually waited for the us to almost finish clearing japan so they could get credit for defeating japan -and therefore the land that the us promised them if they helped- with minimum effort
and im also decently sure the soviets would not have declared war if they were not sure that the japanese were going to surrender soon
manic latch
and im also decently sure the soviets would not have declared war if they were n...
And Japan never declared war on Soviets because they weren't defeated on Stalingrad
manic latch
iirc the soviets actually waited for the us to almost finish clearing japan so t...
Uhhhhh
It was already decided in Yalta Conference
"Stalin agreed to enter the fight against the Empire of Japan "in two or three months after Germany has surrendered and the war in Europe is terminated". As a result, the Soviets would take possession of Southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, the port of Dalian would be internationalized, and the Soviet lease of Port Arthur would be restored, among other concessions."
manic latch
"Stalin agreed to enter the fight against the Empire of Japan "in two or three m...
"As agreed with the United Kingdom and the United States (Western Allies) at the Tehran Conference in November 1943 and the Yalta Conference in February 1945, the Soviet Union entered World War II's Pacific Theater within three months of the end of the war in Europe. The invasion began on 9 August 1945, exactly three months after the German surrender on May 8 (9 May, 0:43 Moscow time)."
So US and UK always knew Soviets would attack Japan 3 months after Germany's defeat
That was the deal
glass trail
ah i see
i misremembered then
but I do know the Soviets made sure to come in as late as possible so they wouldn't have to expend as much manpower or money
manic latch
Nukes were dropped on Japan so US "wouldn't have to expend as much manpower or money"
Operation Downfall after all
frozen yoke
HMAS Castlemaine. (appered in the 5th anniversary livesteam along side me)
all her voyages during the second world war
desert agate
id love to board her one day but that would require going to Melbourne and as I value my sanity I cannot
fierce sparrow
manic latch
Soyuz shooting Makarov 
autumn sorrel
Soyuz shooting Makarov <a:BOOBA:982307052066058340>
Nah, Stechkin 
manic latch
As someone who’s grandpa worked on the Valkyrie program
Its the Tu-144 lmao
She retired in 1978
I thought they were speaking about Tu-244, but her project ended in 1993
manic latch
ivory ridge
kurwa bobr
ivory ridge
of course you would
subtle prawn
runic ermine
I'm gonna send this to Brandon Herrera now
ak jesus
runic ermine
Today is the 106th anniversary of the Halifax explosion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion#
wintry moat
Oh i watched the Naval Disasters video on that
Didnt it have a crowd gathering on the piers
when she finally went up
runic ermine
Oh i watched the Naval Disasters video on that
I watched a heritage minute on it. Those went hard
https://youtu.be/rw-FbwmzPKo?si=zUYH1Rb4QCmYipM8
wintry moat
Damn
runic ermine
Damn
2,000 people died, 9,000 were injured but at least Vince Coleman saves those 700 passengers
wintry moat
Wasnt she burning for a long time
like she careened down the fjord? River?
For a good while
before she went up
runic ermine
Wasnt she burning for a long time
20ish minutes
It was like a fuse line
Then
Boom
runic ermine
was it as bad as Mount Hood?
I think it was worse
It was the biggest man made explosion before the nukes
wintry moat
damn
i know Mt. Hood was bad
but if she was worse
Then jesus
cuz like
Nothing bigger than a five by five ft. steel plate was found of Mt. Hood
shrewd pecan
subtle prawn
manic latch
Ramming of Yorktown by Bezzavetny
spiral cedar
It’s that time of year again
The following are my Top Five Links Everyone Should Watch/Read To Understand Pearl Harbor:
https://youtu.be/qE_iNUXhrfw
For the strategic reasons Japan felt war with the US was necessary
https://youtu.be/HPbAt3qsObE
For why the US felt such economic embargoes were the only way forward
https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1996/fall/butow.html
For a timeline of the escalation of US-Japanese tensions
https://youtu.be/8ojewTDHEow
For how Japanese doctrine and tactical choices influenced the Pearl Harbor attack's target priorities and results
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI
For the actual execution of the attack and its results
desert agate
RAAF Lockheed Hudson at Kota Bharu in late 1941
this specific aircraft would be destroyed on the ground on the 9th of December at Kuantan
453 Squadron Buffalos in flight over Malaya in 1941
453 squadron was based at Singapore on December 8 when early in the morning pilots were awoken by a Japanese bombing raid
Rudely awakened in the small hours of the morning by the screams of air raid sirens and the roar of ack ack guns and in the clear moonlit sky around a formation of Japanese bombers. Bombs were dropped but none fell in our area. So the war in the Far East started - all day we heard news bulletins telling of the wide spread treachery of the Japs - Well! They've asked for it
On the 10th of December, the squadron was assigned to provide air cover for Prince of Wales and Repulse, however were not called upon until after the battleships had been attacked by the Japanese, and so arrived too late to save the ships, and were called for by the commander of HMS Repulse, not the commander in charge of the operation
Had they been called upon sooner, as the British were spotted as early as 0630, the unescorted Japanese attack could have been halted
About 1100 hours both flights were ordered into the air ... (first flight) proceeded northwards past Mersing and shortly came upon the scene of a major naval disaster. Large patches of oil covered the water and two large warships were observed to be sinking - other naval vessels were standing off picking up survivors. ... Discovered on landing that the two ships were the Prince of Wales and the Repulse -!
In spite of being entirely obsolete and outmatched however, the Australian Buffalo squadrons achieved a 2:1 kill ratio before its disbandment due to attrition in March 1942
mental tapir
Not bad for a plane made by one of the worse aircraft companies ever 
solid mango
eternal veldt
Knew something about Challenger 3 didnt ring quite right aesthetically, finally found it
It was the missing TOGS on the mantlet
maiden citrus
the buffalo is based, and so are jaba posts
ivory ridge
Abrams X is basically confirmed
Please shut the fuck up
why are you comparing an extremely old platform getting a 30 years old gun to a completely new thing
please use your brain
manic latch
Coyness, Mr. Undef, is a bad trait. A miscalculation, in which by trying to hide our shipfu, we let it appear stark naked.
autumn sorrel
Visit Twitter this day was a mistake, I today found out that are legit Japanese acc be IJA apologist and weeb just bought it all up
Need to bleach my eyes
manic latch
UK fans: Chal 3 needs more armor!
Gaijin: Prove it with documents
Chal 3 tanker with government secret files: hand shaking
muted latch
strong plank
I feel like they could add the E-MBT demonstrator
the first one I mean
bc wasn’t that just a leopard 2 with a leclerc turret
shrewd pecan
Abrams X is basically confirmed
Nope that’s still years out
spring briar
tf is a Leclerc XLR
manic latch
tf is a Leclerc XLR
Fake French
spring briar
why fake
shrewd pecan
spiral cedar
On 6 June 1944, the Japanese naval attaché in Berlin, Rear Admiral Kojima Hideo, signaled the submarine that the Allies had landed in Normandy, thus threatening her eventual destination of Lorient on the coast of France. She was advised to prepare for Norway instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_submarine_I-52_(1942)
hushed rune
