history

[clear scroll]

Thought so

[autumn sorrel]

The defected pilot is arguably worth more than the jet

He not only know how to handle enemy tech but also provide knowledge about doctrine, unit disposition, technology curve

[shrewd pecan]

Defectors tend to be under tight security

[supple sandal]

What
But

[shrewd pecan]

On top of that their knowledge or worth decreases the longer they’re abroad

[supple sandal]

The pilot is gone

[supple sandal]

Soviet pilots when they get to test US equipment always say the cockpit is less cramped

[manic latch]

Americans are generally larger

So their vehicles tends to show

Abrams should be more comfy than a Leo2

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, yeah no shit

Soviet stuff is either too big or too cramped

[supple sandal]

Then you got the nuclear submarine that got a sauna in it

[manic latch]

Soviets had the

Largest submarine

Largest plane

Largest helicopter

Largest modern cruiser

[supple sandal]

What about that ground effect plane that is technically a ship

Well I guess they win that category because no one else do it

[manic latch]

If US build this they would have the largest

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Pelican

Max takeoff weight: 6,000,000 lb (2,721,554 kg)

[supple sandal]

Not military tho

[manic latch]

It is

It was designed for military use

[supple sandal]

*Ace combat music start

[manic latch]

could move 17 M-1 Abrams tanks, and that the aircraft would be offered along with the C-17 Globemaster III transport, the CH-47 Chinook helicopter, and the Advanced Theater Transport as part of the company's mobility solution for the U.S. armed forces

[supple sandal]

The C-5 is bigger that the C-17 right

[manic latch]

Yes

[night heart]

@desert agate

You watching cricket World Cup?

[supple sandal]

What happened to C-6 through C-16

[autumn sorrel]

Test bed

[desert agate]

I'm at work but yes

[autumn sorrel]

And C-130 exist so naming convention is all over the place

Ah, C-130, my fav cargo plane

[manic latch]

Don't like her

Too old

And props

C-17 is my favorite

But she was too expensive

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Summit_(1985)

On November 19, 1985, U.S. president Ronald Reagan and Soviet General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev met for the first time, in Geneva, to hold talks on international diplomatic relations and the arms race. The meeting was held at Fleur d'Eau, a villa in Versoix

During a 2009 interview with Charlie Rose and Reagan's Secretary of State George Shultz, Gorbachev revealed that Reagan asked him point-blank if they could set aside their differences in case the world was invaded by aliens

[manic latch]

Hmmmm

[autumn sorrel]

Take that back

[manic latch]

Thing is from 50s

I will call that old

[shrewd pecan]

The modern C-130J is very different from the original C-130s

On top of that there’s no real reason to reinvent the wheel when it comes to the C-130 and its mission sets

[autumn sorrel]

Man, I wish PAVN could maintain their C-130 fleet, they keep the plane on the air for so long

[shrewd pecan]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up buying new ones considering some of the rumors regarding US arm sales to Vietnam

[autumn sorrel]

From a transport fleet of dozens C-130 and AN-26, it come down to only 3 C-295

Fucking hell

[shrewd pecan]

I remember there being talks about Vietnam buying F-16s

[autumn sorrel]

Nah, the air force flirt with the idea but it come down to Grippen

[shrewd pecan]

Pretty much the same thing

[autumn sorrel]

In the end, Grippen order was canceled due to unfavorable term and air force decide to increase the SU-30 fleet instead

[shrewd pecan]

Ah here we go

https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-aides-talks-with-vietnam-arms-deal-that-could-irk-china-2023-09-23/

[autumn sorrel]

Keyword "could"

[shrewd pecan]

We’ll see if Vietnam goes with it or not

[autumn sorrel]

Adopting F-16 mean PAF have to adopt a completely new system

[manic latch]

I keep forgetting the difference between 30 and 35 other than canards

[autumn sorrel]

Prob not if the price still too high for the higher up liking

[manic latch]

Also don't buy Gripen pls

Buy F-16

It's literally same thing for cheaper

[shrewd pecan]

depends on what’s being offered

[manic latch]

Tell me something Gripen can do better over Blok 70

You won't

[shrewd pecan]

I’m talking about price

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, it could work, it would require to be on credit and if PAF buy it, it have to be a reasonable big batch

[shrewd pecan]

beyond that gripen and F-16s differences just boil down to maintenance intensity and weapons integrations

[autumn sorrel]

Weapon integration would require PAF to buy more missile from US

[manic latch]

Gripen use American weapons lol

[autumn sorrel]

Why do you think the Grippen deal go out the window? Vietnam wasn't allow to buy US weapon back then

[shrewd pecan]

They have some European missile integrations that the F-16 doesnt

But that also doesn’t change the fact the gripens dependent on US made munitions and hardware

Any gripen sale is going to require American export approval

[manic latch]

There is less Gripen E build than Su-57

[autumn sorrel]

There is only 2 Lavi

[shrewd pecan]

There’s far more Lavi’s if you count J-10

[manic latch]

J-10 underrated af

[shrewd pecan]

It has no service history and it barely exists outside of China

[autumn sorrel]

Don't you know, those are indigenous design

[autumn sorrel]

At least they have something to fill in the light fighter role

[manic latch]

Honestly I'm disappointed with B-21

It's literally a B-2

But changed little

[autumn sorrel]

Mean while, SU-30 air fleet is stretch all over

I mean, new electronic, new air frame and new engine

[shrewd pecan]

Visually they never were going to be all that different

[autumn sorrel]

You know what, if I can bring a Vietname War era plane back into service, I would bring back A-37

The damn thing is scary af in ground suppporting role

[shrewd pecan]

My heart desires only one thing

[autumn sorrel]

Please no, no more arrowhead

[manic latch]

Honestly Su-57 looks better as twin seat

57 looks SO CURSED with American camo tho

Like I don't know if it's better Or not

It's like you sat on F-22

[autumn sorrel]

Heavy fighter should have option for twin seat imo

[shrewd pecan]

Looks better with it

[manic latch]

Frens

Anyway, I'm happy with design update 75 got

I think diamond shape is much more optimal now

[autumn sorrel]

So, when can we have both Aerospace fighter, as in operational in both Atmosphere and Vaccum?

[manic latch]

Not possible

You need air for main engines since they don't work in space

If you slap rockets on plane for space

But like

This thing would be super heavy

For what point

[supple sandal]

Wait you're telling me that Su-57 isn't twin seat?

[manic latch]

Suprising fact

Only J-20 is the fifth gen fighter with a twin seat variant

F-22, F-35, Su-57, YF-23 doesn't have twin

[supple sandal]

Man the damn thing look so big that I thought it is

[manic latch]

Ye...

[tropic pawn]

@here is the ship to ship radio equipment aboard bismarck; voice radio or Telegraph?

[manic latch]

@alpine onyx

[shrewd pecan]

I’ve always wondered why the Russians have seemed to always have the issue of making massive airframes with no real payload or pylon count to take advantage of it

[manic latch]

I think it's about engines

Weapon bays have to be between them

Why they didn't do it like F-22 I wonder, belly large enough to go under air intakes

[rapid junco]

Don't worry
We'll invert that some day

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymuF00qJ3do

[subtle prawn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67467831

[manic latch]

Napoleon's hat was sold at auction for a record €1,932,000.

It is alleged that it was this bicorne that the emperor wore on board the brig Inconstant, on which he escaped from exile on the island of Elba in 1815.

[spring briar]

Epique

[clear scroll]

That would be a starfighter, I presume it would be done once engine tech gets more advanced. Like plasma or ion based engines

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1726251131582443964

[remote monolith]

new dinosaur just droped

they named it check paper huh...Gremlin slobodorum

[maiden citrus]

perfect

[remote monolith]

I mean, I can't deny Lepidoceratops do look kinda like Gremlins (a related specimen as example)

[somber knoll]

gremlin power

[manic latch]

OK finally realized the difference between Su 30 and 35

Su-30 will always have two seats, may or may not have canards but usually do

While Su-35 will always be single seat and no canards

[shrewd pecan]

Should of just kept both named Su-27M and Su-27PU

[strong plank]

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/darpa-sprint-vtol/

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u5qTKBaPBk

[manic latch]

Yeah same

I prefer US way of naming things

Su-27 vs Su-35 is like

F/A-18 vs F/A-18E

Hell US calls Su-35 as Flanker-E for such reason I think

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, I wouldn’t be the first time, mig-17 and mig-19

[manic latch]

Evil B-17

[desert agate]

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/enhancing-the-ran-surface-fleet-the-return-of-the-arsenal-ship/

[manic latch]

On This Day in 1759 Admiral Hawke defeated the French at the Battle of Quiberon Bay during the 7 years war. This action ended French Naval superiority and prevented a planned invasion of the United Kingdom.

[eternal veldt]

And henceforth was the name Formidable added to the Royal Navy Roster as well.

[autumn sorrel]

Man, Louis XIV was something, literally willed into existence a big ass fleet to challenge the Brit

[tribal mortar]

basically su30 looks sexier

especially the mkm variant

[manic latch]

Charles de Gaulle conducts a catapult test with dummy load while undergoing maintenance in Toulon

[ivory ridge]

https://fxtwitter.com/NichoConcu/status/1726551245773808054?t=kex9GXOedYtDFdcyNFdmPg&s=19

@tough quail being

[tough quail]

Friend :)

[eager dove]

American procurement can’t win, people either complain about untested new designs or complain when the US tries to limit risk by utilizing existing technology

It’s also really a testament to how advanced the B-2 Spirit really was and still is

It seems a bit premature to say it hasn’t changed much when we don’t know basically any specs

[manic latch]

Oh main reason "untested new designs" survives for US is the money

They push edge too much that it usually hurts the procurement horribly

That's why there is only 21 B-2

Thing is most expensive plane in existence and demanded specially designed hangars for her ram painting

I find B-21 as basically what B-2 should have been originally

IF things goes as planned

Since B-21 actually plans to go beyond 50 models

[manic latch]

But i do believe sole reason F-35 program survived was the willing of US to not stop the funding

If thing was under British level air force budget then yeah I doubt it would survive the day

[eager dove]

There is only 21 B-2 bombers built because the Cold War ended, cost and procurement were not issues for a Cold War stance US

The same thing is not the case for the post Cold War peace dividend US where the B-2 has lost much of its role

[manic latch]

Well yes from 132 models to 21 is a big downgrade that will affect the cost

[eager dove]

No shit? This kind of program can only survive with a nation that can actually afford to fund it.

Hence why 6th gen programs in Europe have the various nations pulling together to pool their resources and funding

[manic latch]

Oh Europe's Job is even harder

Since they let US do their Fifth gen plane role

So they don't have self fifth gen experience

They have to jump from Eurofighter to 6th gen

At least with NGAD for example

US knows about F-22 and F-35

[eager dove]

Britain has a good amount of experience to draw upon from the F-35 program

BAE was involved a fair bit

But that’s not the same as designing their own

[manic latch]

Doubt it's that useful unless they helped with engines and radar

Tho that two feels American to me

[desert agate]

Rolls Royce is one of the few companies capable of manufacturing good jet engines

[eager dove]

Yeah the UK are very ahead of the game with engine tech

[desert agate]

probably one of the last things the UK has left to kill off in their defence sector

fortunately mostly self sufficient so government cant take it out back like it did with countless other capabilities

as for Europe, CAPTOR and various Thales systems are pretty solid

[eager dove]

The B-2 was a product of its time, technology was not sufficiently advanced to really do a B-21 in that era

Advances in stealth coatings, computer designing, miniaturization, etc is very much helping the B-21 be a smaller and more efficient use of money

The B-2 was basically one of the most advanced aircraft in the world for many, many years

[manic latch]

Doubt it can take the Apache's orders

Tho Italy is welcome to surprise

[strong plank]

There’s only 21 because the Cold War ended

The order went from 132 -> 75 -> 20 -> 21

[chilly osprey]

Lmao

If you think B-2 and B-21 are going to be similar internally

Boy have I got a bridge to sell you

[strong plank]

It’s funny bc exterior-wise, the B-21 looks an awful lot like what the B-2 was originally supposed to be

Before the Air Force added the low-altitude requirement that necessitated the control surfaces be reworked

[manic latch]

Of course not

Modern interior are all digital stuff

You see it when comparing latest B52 cockpit upgrade

[supple shore]

https://www.discoverpirates.com/

whydah pirate musuem in mass, u.s.

[manic latch]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/skunk-works-teases-tailless-ngad-fighter-design-in-new-ad

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/11/20/navy-p-8a-poseidon-overshoots-hawaiian-runway-splashes-in-kaneohe-bay-crew-safe

[shrewd pecan]

apparently China has a M110 knock off???????

[supple shore]

copying other countries' technologies by stealing it, is one of china's specialties after all

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/203mm-prc.htm

"A prototype vehicle of the W-90 203 mm self-propelled gun was released in 1993. It used the American body M107 175 mm self-propelled grenade cannon body in the chassis. Although the source of this chassis is unknown, China seems to have used M110, M107 self-propelled gun that the United States left behind in Vietnam, and it has diverted it. A series of shooting experiments were carried out for several years after production. Although it proved the possibility of 203mm cannon self-propelled gun, it also became clear that there is still a problem in the performance of the chassis and the gun and it is difficult to operate as a completed gun system."

oh its just straight up

the M110/M107 hull

[autumn sorrel]

Strange, it must be transfer between 75 and 79 but as far as I know, tension start to rise right after 75 so the fact that PAVN agree to send Chinese an example of arguably one of their best SPG at the time is strange

Probably captured example during the 1972 offensive but the info about their fate is sketchy and their role during the Cambodian war as strategic reserve mean there hardly any chance for Khmer Rogue to capture one let alone move it to China

Oh wait, Iran also operate M107, prob the gun are sent by them

[supple sandal]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1125841026184134829/1176353534401323038/images_-_2023-11-21T104835.253.jpg?ex=656e8f9a&is=655c1a9a&hm=e17acb91171740c0dfb609dff0b861d1868a0ac517cdd13ab4b98fcb2aac7e50&

The

[strong plank]

T-62 Calliope

[shrewd pecan]

The guns entirely domestically made

The hulls a M110/M107

It’s bizarre

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/dcs-hind-mi24-gif-20908100

give those back you son of a bitch

[strong plank]

Allegedly China bought some French guns a while back

And then mysteriously gained the ability to make slightly shittier versions domestically

[cinder escarp]

The 90s were a funny time.

A lot of programs that started in the '80s in CN are really odd mashups of soviet, western, and their own ideas.

[covert timber]

Hey that's where I live

Tf they doing in my bay

[autumn sorrel]

The Ceasar copy?

[autumn sorrel]

Military training, Pacific HQ is in Hawaii

[covert timber]

Locals are gonna use this to throw shit on America

[autumn sorrel]

I mean Iran provide China with a M107 to study, they prob use the hull of M107 instead of a domestic one bc it will either they have to use hull derived from their AFV, APC or develop entire new one while there already a working chassis and copy it is so much easier

[autumn sorrel]

They are American, people would kill to live like them

[covert timber]

Locals here hate America because overthrow

And Red Hill

With the death of most of the Hawaiians

[autumn sorrel]

Yes, I know the history

[covert timber]

And the shelling of that one island

They just seem ungrateful

[autumn sorrel]

Honestly, America done many fuck up shit in the past but I can’t see any other nation give its citizen so much freedom and opportunity

[covert timber]

Locals hate America but benefit from the imports of goods and materials

[autumn sorrel]

Oh right, Hawaii isn’t self sufficient

[covert timber]

85% of them wouldn't be able to live on Hawaii if Hawaii was their sovereign nation

[autumn sorrel]

Isn’t the state received so much funding from the federal gov?

[covert timber]

"But my culture"

We're the most expensive state

Only reason why we even are a state is because of our location

And power projection

[autumn sorrel]

Lets face it, if it wasn’t the American, it would be the Brit, the French or German, it could be a lot worse considering how the old European pacific colonies fare nowaday

[covert timber]

All the people I meet that say Hawai'i should be a sovereign nation can't tell me how we can keep a positive Export to Import ratio

[covert timber]

Don't forget China

I mean Japan

But Hawaii acts like a checkpoint in the Pacific

It's like controlling the Panama canal or nile river

[autumn sorrel]

Somehow there are Québécois said they should be an independent state despite their funding and treaty with the indian nations depend on Canadian fed gov

[autumn sorrel]

Good luck try to compete coconut export with the rest of the world

[covert timber]

People here always say "But imagine what Hawai'i would be like if America never came" excluding the fact Nations are conglomerates of Territories and they don't care about civilians

[covert timber]

Our export to import ratio is just about 1:11. 39.5M to 349M or something

And that's this past August

Sure we only use 51% of the very important agricultural land. But we can't put laws in place like Japan

[subtle prawn]

Lemme tell you about a certain group of vocal minority of Albertans then…

[autumn sorrel]

Do tell

[covert timber]

Ever heard of Okinawans?

Just like Hawaiians but asian

[autumn sorrel]

I am in the mood to hear about weird independence movement

[subtle prawn]

They want to secede from Canada as well

Really fringe minority, but it exists

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, Ryuku. The Shimazu dominated them so hard

[covert timber]

Yes

Even more ironic I'm both Okinawan and native Hawaiian

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, an independent Hawaiian nation sound a lot like a ethnostate

[covert timber]

Sounds like another way to put your people under another annexation

[autumn sorrel]

“Different management”

[covert timber]

There's a reason why small Island nations get ingulffed by a bigger nations

Imperial Japan is an example

Hitting islands in Alaska

[autumn sorrel]

So, like the Mormon?

[covert timber]

When they was building the H3 freeway here for the Military but under "Civilian use" the locals got upset saying they was damaging "sacred land"

When construction finished guess who are using the H3?

[autumn sorrel]

Is it like Australian Aboriginals claim rock to be sacred?

[covert timber]

They say it's sacred because native Hawaiian gods or something

Hawai'i is just a military base disguised as a tourist spot

[autumn sorrel]

Pretty weak god if you ask me

[subtle prawn]

Very delusional group shall we say

[autumn sorrel]

So, Canadian “Mormon”

[covert timber]

If the God was so strong, why didn't they make Oahu go volcanic again?

[junior trench]

sometimes I wonder if people remember the circumstances which led to Hawaiian statehood and realize how hellish things could be if the US had rejected that bid...
stares at the literal corpostate which had overthrown the monarchy

[covert timber]

Yeah

[autumn sorrel]

They would be like Puerto Rica

[junior trench]

ain't no one ready to see East India Company 2: This Time With Not Enough Natives To Force An Intervention

[covert timber]

Missionaries overthrew the government, not the US, fucking white men with guns

[junior trench]

what

no

not at all

[autumn sorrel]

Much worse?

[junior trench]

Puerto Rico was a territorial concession after the Spanish American War

and was always under US Federal control

[covert timber]

Hawaiians say they are the "most oppressed minority in America"

[junior trench]

Hawaii had its government overthrown by business interests who made a bid for association with the US, and the US government decided to just go all the way rather than let it be locally (read: corpostate) administrated

[autumn sorrel]

On level of Congo Free State then?

[covert timber]

They also talk about the boarding schools America did while not talking about the war crime that King Kamehameha I did on Oahu

Forcing the Native Oahu army to fall off a cliff to their deaths

[autumn sorrel]

Didn’t he bought gun from the European?

[covert timber]

Yes

[desert agate]

Fuck off

[autumn sorrel]

And he use them on Hawaiian first

[covert timber]

Just like how Japan bought gun from Dutch

[autumn sorrel]

Come on, it is one of the funniest news coming from Australia last month

[junior trench]

*and even then there was pretty lively congressional debate about going through with it

[desert agate]

Uluru is sacred

There is no debate

[autumn sorrel]

Who?

You mean the rocks?

[desert agate]

The big fuckoff rock in the middle of Australia

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, I was talking about 250 smaller ones

[covert timber]

Tf would people want to go to fuckoff Australia for a rock?

[desert agate]

You would need to be more specific, theres a lot of rocks in this country and a lot of them are sacred

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, in Buddhism, we worship a intact heart of a monk that immolated himself

[desert agate]

And righting colonial abuses of indigenous culture isn't 'funny'

[covert timber]

Over here in Hawaii we each children (Taro/Kalo)

[autumn sorrel]

It is real thing, sometimes immolated monk leave behind their intact heart and it is consider a relic

Thich Quang Duc reportedly leave behind an intact heart and it was photographed but Diem special force took it and destroy it

[covert timber]

Now I'm hungry for Dinuguan

Risk is a good game to see the national side of things

Instead of the cultural perspective

[autumn sorrel]

Look, I am not making fun of the step they take to address those thing but there are people who is in bad faith misappropriated the power given to them and make up thing for their own benefit

[covert timber]

The people who seem to not acknowledge the things being under said nation have gave them

[autumn sorrel]

I am fine with leaving indigenous sacred burial land or thing that have significant religious value for them intact and for them to decide but suddenly declare the land to be sacred to get more concessions is bad

[covert timber]

I draw the line if you are gonna use the said violation of sacred land

Like if it's agricultural or infinstructure

I hate English

[autumn sorrel]

You are American

[covert timber]

Yes but it doesn't make sense in my Jap mind

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, your Kanji is much worse

[covert timber]

Yeah I have to give you that

[autumn sorrel]

I’d rather learn old Latin

[covert timber]

Anything is better than Mandarin

I pity the people I know who have to learn Mandarin for their jobs

Yet they can't say certain words because they not that race or something

They say it perfectly but it's wrong

[autumn sorrel]

I took great pleasure in knowing that even the proud Chinese have to learn English in order to code

[covert timber]

Universal language

[autumn sorrel]

They can’t code Java or C++ with Mandarin

[covert timber]

English speaking countries making code only recognizable for English speaking people. I like it

But fr, Hawaiian is just the aeiou. While Japanese is Ki Ku Ni Chi or something

[junior trench]

wait until you hear about Euro English

even already has a unicode entry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_English

[covert timber]

I'd rather learn that than Hawaiian tbh

[autumn sorrel]

My German friend confirmed to me that every German have to learn English

[junior trench]

no

not "classroom english"

I mean European English which just exists as its own dialect

[covert timber]

My German and French friends know English

[junior trench]

due to the sheer ubiquity of English speaking media, culture, and professional fields

like, this is beyond "everyone knows Greek/Latin/French"

[autumn sorrel]

Have you ever hear a Saxon try speaking English

Not bad but need improvement

[covert timber]

You know what I hate, people who always try find Japanese version of songs and say "it's better"

[junior trench]

it appears I've made the mistake of trying to impart actual academic sorts of discussion to this clusterfuck

[autumn sorrel]

Your first mistake is to think it will be an academic discussion

[junior trench]

my standards for this channel were created based off the old regulars

[covert timber]

If you want to go Academic I'll listen

[autumn sorrel]

Tbf, I am still in a bit of a joker mood, give me a weapon system academic discussion and I will enter my professional mood

[covert timber]

Okay it just dawned on me that you said Hawaii was bought or something, that just changes the whole narrative.

[autumn sorrel]

Iirc, Corpo overthrown the monarchy and made an outreach to the US gov to be a sort of territory of the US but governed by business interests but Congress decide to go all in and make it under federal administration, later statehood

[desert agate]

Can you give me a link or something mate

[covert timber]

Dole became governor and Dole plantations was made

[desert agate]

Because the only people I've heard about claiming that indigenous heritage claims are bad faith and stealing from white Australians are themselves making their arguments in bad faith

There is still a lot of land that can be claimed and still hasn't been usually because of various legal issues

[desert agate]

Standards in this channel drooped dramatically a year or so ago

Was dropping before then but I don't think this channel has had a seriously productive conver in a while

[junior trench]

it's not even Tojokistan level shitposting anymore

[maiden citrus]

I am summoned

[desert agate]

The memes are dead and so are the good chats 😔

Why hath jaba forsaken us

[spiral cedar]

I could share immune zone calcs but those don't get much purchase nowadays

In this server at least

And I feel like Quoraposting can get a bit old after a while

[maiden citrus]

it amuses me but does not surprise me jaba lurks with mild hand on chin syndrome as I do

I love both those things jaba

[covert timber]

Want pictures of a Korean Training ship that went into Pearl Harbor?

Or the Carrier?

[maiden citrus]

that sounds neat

[covert timber]

Or something

It should be fine

I think

[maiden citrus]

I'd be interested to see it

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/11/20/state-dept-signs-off-on-2-3b-japanese-counterstrike-tomahawk-missile-buy

[covert timber]

i forgot the name but its a double bridge with 2 or more hospital rooms

No pictures of the inside

[autumn sorrel]

I will acquiesce, some of the source I used could contain bias on that topic.

[covert timber]

But it's a trainer ship

[desert agate]

what is the source

[covert timber]

They gave use miso soup in a can and Korean moonpies

[autumn sorrel]

Sky new or something, it has been awhile and I still try to find that report

[desert agate]

because i would like to make the point that in the decades since Mabo V Queensland, there has never been a malicious Native Title claim

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, Mabo V Queensland?

[desert agate]

the most important court case regarding native title in Australian history

[maiden citrus]

pretty neat, I remember on NC they had the full menu on display, with samples in vaccuum behind glass of what each item was as an example of what the sailors would eat

[desert agate]

the case which in fact established that yes, Native Title existed in Australian common law

[maiden citrus]

as an exchange, have this recipe of a very important matter

[desert agate]

it also retroactively annulled the British declaration of Terra Nullius in 1788 when the first British colonists arrived here

[covert timber]

anyways, heres Oahu getting nuked last year

[desert agate]

Mabo unfortunately never lived to see the results of the court case which he himself initiated, but he's widely seen as a very important figure in the fight for indigenous land rights

[spiral cedar]

One downside of Quoraposting nowadays is that many answers feel like they were written by a LLM instead of a human

[maiden citrus]

true

[spiral cedar]

And while making fun of dumb AIs is itself fun, it's not the same

[maiden citrus]

ai stupidity is way less funny than human stupidity

[spiral cedar]

Like this

This feels like it was written by a LLM

It makes no sense for a human to say but makes perfect sense for a trawling LLM to write

[maiden citrus]

technically correct™️

the ship was designed to do what it was told to do, this is why it was built

[spiral cedar]

The KGVs were not designed for U-boat convoy defense tho

[maiden citrus]

I disagree, the HMS King George Five class were designed in the United Kingdom to-

[autumn sorrel]

So, even if the Aboriginal claim a titles, it can still be thrown out if the government deem that the one who make the claim go against the title interests?

[desert agate]

yes

[spiral cedar]

Another suspicious factor is that the question measures gun caliber in inches but weight/mass in kg, and the answer uses and repeated the exact same units (diameter in inches and weight/mass in kg)

Which again is a bit weird for a human (who usually has a preferred system of measures for a given context) but is absolutely a thing a LLM would do (regurgitate figures from the prompt)

[maiden citrus]

HMS Hood was designed by the United Kingdom, a Battlecruiser of the early 20th century, she was often referred to as a Submarine, this allowed her to perform various duties as designed, such as protecting convoys from German U-boats

[desert agate]

However, the sovereign power of the Crown included the power to make grants of land. As that power might be exercised to create a tenure of land in the grantee, it was tantamount to a radical title to the land 21 . Native title was ousted when the sovereign power had been exercised inconsistently with the continued enjoyment of native title, but otherwise native title survived. Crown grantees were secure in their titles but the holders of native title were unprotected at common law against an exercise of the power of alienation. By majority 22 , it was held that the expropriation of native title pursuant to any valid legislative authority is not compensable. But the holders of native title are now protected by the Racial Discrimination Act to the same extent as are the holders of other forms of title. They are therefore no longer amenable to expropriation without compensation.

[autumn sorrel]

I see, what you are saying is that how it is also the natives responsibility to governed their action in order to preserve their claim

[desert agate]

The Mabo decisions gave rise to considerable controversy. After much public debate, in 1993 the Commonwealth Parliament enacted the Native Title Act which, adopting the common law as defined in Mabo [No.2] 23 prescribed a system for dealing with native title. The Act contemplates the enactment of complementary laws by the States and Territories 24 . The Native Title Act provided, inter alia, for determinations as to the existence or non-existence of native title to particular parcels of land. Access to native title land for mining or other non-Aboriginal purposes can be obtained 25 but there are extensive provisions relating to negotiation, arbitration and ministerial intervention in respect of proposals to grant access 26 . A National Native Title Tribunal 27 , presided over by a Judge of the Federal Court, has certain mediation and administrative functions and is presently dealing with the processing of claims. The Federal Court has jurisdiction 28 over issues calling for judicial determination, including appeals from the Tribunal on questions of law.

[maiden citrus]

but yeah as much as I meme jaba, I understand it, silly people are much funnier

[desert agate]

effectively what this means is that a native title claim cant kick you out of your house, unless the claimants can prove that the area around your house has been consistently culturally important

[spiral cedar]

See, this you can tell is a human, since humans like to be picky about stuff like this

[desert agate]

it is very difficult to the point of near impossibility to maliciously use native tital for personal gain

[covert timber]

Missouri and AKAGI model

[autumn sorrel]

Akagi is thicc

[maiden citrus]

ironic, the non robots go to the hundreth decimal place

[covert timber]

I'm happy I'm on the only one that noticed that

[desert agate]

i wish stuff like chatgpt could be more helpful in researching these topics but unfortunately it only spits out generalised information

[spiral cedar]

You can also spot a human when they pick up a Drach-ism like saying the British 14" had an especially large bursting charge to make up for treaty caliber limits (all British WWII BB APC used the same % filler)

[autumn sorrel]

I think I found the sky new article but it mostly talk about the “Voice” referendum.

[desert agate]

The Voice is a political topic which I am not willing to discuss in this channel

[autumn sorrel]

Might not be the article I read tho, it is hazy

[autumn sorrel]

Ok

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, it can still help in searching for stuff depend on how much they allow it to access

But man, Microsoft is making some big stuff in AI development, they hired the ousted CEO of OpenAI and there are now letter cosign by like 600 engineers at OpenAI about how they will go to Microsoft if the company keep fumble

Imagine Bing become the 1st search engine to incorporate AI

[spiral cedar]

The UK 14" gets some exaggerated bad rap, but calling it "a lot more powerful" than some 15" guns? Like which ones??

19th century muzzle loaders?

[desert agate]

cant believe they demoted King George

[spiral cedar]

I didn’t notice that

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, they demoted King George VI

[desert agate]

i would like to see how many ships from the time of George IV could take on Bismarck

at what point do the age of sail ships overwhelm her

[spiral cedar]

When she runs out of ammo, tries to ram, and gets boarded

[desert agate]

could they penetrate her armour at extremely close range?

[spiral cedar]

No

[desert agate]

like literally touching

[spiral cedar]

No

[autumn sorrel]

Send Cochrane, he will take Bismarck with trickery and booze

[desert agate]

and how does the boarding action go

muskets vs mausers

[spiral cedar]

They will eventually run out of ammunition

[desert agate]

hostile at the entrance moment i suppose

[dusty kraken]

are sailors trained in cqc in case of boarding action

[desert agate]

foe at the point of ingress

[spiral cedar]

The first man gets the Kar 98K, the second gets the stripper clip. When the first man falls, the second picks up the rifle, loads the clip, and fires

[maiden citrus]

I was thinking necromancy but this is funny too

[desert agate]

The USN had infantry squads on their ships

Not marines mind you

But naval infantry

[spiral cedar]

Littorios forgotten again

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, hypothetically question, had William IV not coming to the throne, what will happen to Cochrane?

After all, it was William sympathetic view that help Cochrane case.

[spiral cedar]

angry Maka noises

[maiden citrus]

both are under armored

though the implication of the post is also noted and called stupid

[spiral cedar]

Littorios forgotten again

[maiden citrus]

I don't want to view the immune zones, I want to complain!

[spiral cedar]

Bruh it's this dude again

Also even by this person's silly metric, I'm pretty sure the US 14"/50 beats out both the JP 46cm and GER 38cm

[maiden citrus]

I mean they're technically correct

[spiral cedar]

The GER 28cm also beats out those two

[maiden citrus]

the 14''/45 mark 12 was the best gun on the best battleship

[autumn sorrel]

But silly gun arrangement tho

[maiden citrus]

logical gun arrangement

[autumn sorrel]

Wouldn't the argurment then shouldn't be about gun but about rangefinder and balistic computer when we're talking about number of hits on enemy ship?

[maiden citrus]

that person just has extremely bad iowa takes

[autumn sorrel]

Saying a gun is bad bc it can't hit enemy is really localize the problem to a single component isntead of the entire system as a whole

[spiral cedar]

The guy outright refuses to believe that Iowa hit Katori

Despite the fact that when she rolled over she had big battleship shell sized holes in her hull

He will choose whatever conclusion he wishes to have

[supple sandal]

Iowa costal shelling?

[spiral cedar]

It specified ship targets

[maiden citrus]

I don't want to look at immune zones or data or what have you

!

[autumn sorrel]

NJ and Iowa attack Truk and the IJN ships there

[spiral cedar]

Katori was a Japanese cruiser at Truk during Operation Hailstone. Spruance charged in with the surface fleet to finish off the survivors of the initial air strikes, which brought Iowa and New Jersey into a surface action against Japanese warships. The cruiser Katori, now primarily serving as a training cruiser, fired off a salvo of torpedoes at Iowa, but missed. Iowa and other US ships smothered her with fire in short order, with aerial spotters reporting hits by Iowa at medium range. Katori then rolled over and sank. Since many ships were firing, it wasn't possible for observers aboard Iowa to directly spot any hits (they could spot misses and near-misses, of course, but the explosion of a delay-action shell is hard to spot through a 16 inch wide hole unless the ship is obliging enough to blow up, and the view was obstructed by splashes from other guns from other ships), so she reported no observed hits. Which led later people to believe she didn't score any hits, which (given the medium range involved) would have been rather embarrassing. So then of course people would later use it as reason to say the Iowas couldn't hit anything

[junior trench]

is this the same action as NJ's extreme range casualty producing shot against a destroyer?

I think it is?

[spiral cedar]

Yes

Iowa's first salvo at a reported 35.700 yds was a straddle

But Nowaki's short hull didn't stick over the horizon (except her mast), which meant her subsequent course change wasn't visible and she was lost from view 2 salvos later

It's funny, isn't it? How often this "10 minutes of effective fire" thing shows up, yet it seems every other navy didn't think it was apparently a problem for them

Funny how the Germans, Italians, French, Americans, Japanese etc. don't have difficulty finding spotters with stereoscopic vision and then getting them to sit through an extended shoot

But for whatever reason the British did, and apparently that's the one that is assumed to be correct

[maiden citrus]

luckily finding humans with stereoscopic vision isn't very hard

[spiral cedar]

If it were really as difficult as the RN made it out to be, I suspect there would be fewer Cold War tanks with stereo rangefinders

[junior trench]

ah yes

very easy to use

compared to

checks notes

sliding two matching images over each other

[spiral cedar]

Bruh

[manic latch]

Sunk by British destroyers

[spiral cedar]

Yet another alternate history timeline traveler coming to Quora

[spiral cedar]

I mean, that part is merely incomplete

But the two sunken British BBs??

What brain process invents such a non-event

I can smell Richy reaching for his TDS cross sections

Oh hey, it's you again. Go ahead, tell us about Britain's forty battleships apparently (or seventy?)

I get search engines can be sort of hard to operate. But is counting really that hard

[subtle prawn]

Apparently so

[spiral cedar]

C'mon, 5th partial salvo (3rd full salvo) is already impressive enough. Why you gotta try to shave off even more salvos

Yards, feet, what's a factor of 3 between friends, eh?

[alpine onyx]

Jaba doing Quora Tuesday again?

[spiral cedar]

Ah yes.
Japanese survivors: we count about 20 large caliber hits, with these specific hit locations in detail.
This dood: clearly the civilian submersible was being bribed by the US Navy

[spiral cedar]

Ah, no, the Yamato 46cm guns totally weren't some of the smallest dispersion BB guns of WWII, no sireee

Totally

Man, I'm sure they wished they could get 10% at long range

Oy vey, not this again

Electrical loss was never total, and predominantly affected fire control and communications circuits. Fire control and internal communications were down for 3 minutes (0033-0036) due to gunfire shock. In fixing this, the power rerouting had a complication, forcing all power aft (including in Turret III) to be lost for 1 minute (exact time not logged, but it was shortly after the first electrical outage). All of this, note, was self-inflicted and occurred several minutes before South Dakota received any hits from the Japanese. Subsequent Japanese gunfire caused various bits of fire control and radar equipment to be destroyed, but that is normal for any ship receiving repeated hits topside and not something unique to SoDak that night.

And now let's add half again to Washington's range and have her score a 100% hit rate salvo apparently(??)

People really, really hate checking their range numbers, don't they

What's a factor of 2 between friends

[autumn sorrel]

I really hate when they constantly jump between metric and imperial when talking about range

Messed up my train of thought

[spiral cedar]

???numbers?

[spiral cedar]

Easy conversion is 1.1 yards ~ 1 meter

So 33k yards is about 30k meters

[autumn sorrel]

So SoDak problem wasn’t loss of power but more like her power was reroute to the critical system from other part of the ship plus part of her FCS damage that lead to her temporary unable to return fire?

[autumn sorrel]

I remember someone said IJN have some sort of early night vision optics plus they put sailor with sharp eye sight as spotter

[eternal veldt]

metric, imperial

sod that, use football fields

[autumn sorrel]

Oh my, remind me of “Jarhead”

[maiden citrus]

pretty sure even in wows 10% at 20km would be a great hit rate

[spring briar]

Mfw Japanese gunnery in many engagement was stellar

[alpine onyx]

Is it the time of day when radar causes a boost in precision?

[spiral cedar]

Well, technically it was later possible to measure muzzle velocity with radar to account for causes of MV-based dispersion

[wintry moat]

This shouldn’t have gotten a giggle outta me

[cinder escarp]

That never gets old IMHO.

[rapid junco]

You guys talking about Quora
I've recently been having fun on a YT comment section of a shorts of a rando spitting the classics "How Germany could've won WWII"

Classics that is
"Listen to the generals"
"Don't declare on the US"
"Negotiate with the British"
"Don't invade the USSR"

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1726988309229170777

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1727125952059396365

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/0nlNz53TBpk?si=GgvO-FwAlkSwl_GN

[spiral cedar]

Quora having a normal one

[thorn trail]

wait hold on what the fuck lmfao

I wonder if you ask them which British BBs got sunk by Scharn

[spiral cedar]

Surely would be easy to name them

[unborn wyvern]

and who could forget the twitter classic; "Don't siege lenningrad, take it immediately"

[spiral cedar]

Quora posters fishing for confirmation bias as usual

[rapid junco]

Also
"Produce more things"

I think i saw a few mentions of Potential History's Channel here
I watched Both of his "Germany could not have won WWII" And i think those sound quite right

[spiral cedar]

"Make more Panthers/Tigers"
"Capture the Caucasus"
"Make more Me-262s"
etc.

[shrewd pecan]

simply just materialize more oil and men

[spiral cedar]

No one tell them that what Germany needed was more infantry, not tanks

[spiral cedar]

It never ends

[clear scroll]

Bruh

[spiral cedar]

Underwater nuclear bomb tourism apparently

[clear scroll]

Royal navy never sunk eugen that was US

[spiral cedar]

Clearly those nuclear bombs were actually RN

[supple sandal]

Not gonna read that because brain rot

[thorn trail]

What's with so many people saying Italy has the worst navy in ww2

[strong plank]

because clearly their navy must've performed the same as their ground forces

it's the same with how people think of the kriegsmarine

[spiral cedar]

Lack of penetration into English-language histories from the Italian perspective until rather recently

So it was mostly from the British perspective

[desert agate]

The more I say 'fucking' the more valid my point is

[spiral cedar]

The more I fucking say 'fucking' the more fucking valid my fucking point is

[unkempt sedge]

Actually, one could claim the Regia Marina did a better job than the entire Kriegsmarine surface fleet during the war. However, that would be a very heated debate for sure.

[strong plank]

Peter Capaldi does history

[wintry moat]

Wasn’t the Italian ship designs pretty good for their time

like Littorio is a good ship all and all

Besides the whole, shitty shells or whatever was the case for them

[desert agate]

the shell issue was a single batch

[remote monolith]

https://www.sci.news/paleontology/amanasaurus-nesbitti-12466.html

note: not actually a dinosaur

Silesaurids are extremely close relatives of dinosaurs, but they're not dinosaurs

no surviving lineage today since they didn't seem to make it out of the Triassic

[maiden citrus]

triassic stuff good

[desert agate]

https://fxtwitter.com/PDHeritageCent/status/1726915443737473402

[covert timber]

I discovered this video, using traditional Chinese technuiqes to make a Dandao replica
https://youtu.be/NhdFygUJOek

[manic latch]

Me forging a knife worthy enough to cut Soyuz's birthday cake

[manic latch]

@tough quail

The second accident was a cooling system leak which occurred in 1967, shortly after refueling. Finding the leak required breaking through the concrete and metal biological shield with sledgehammers. Once the leak was found, it became apparent that the sledgehammer damage could not be repaired; subsequently, all three reactors were removed by blowing them off the ship with shaped charges above a burial site off Novaya Zemlya, and replaced by two OK-900 reactors. This was completed in early 1970.

How do the fix this?

Soviets: Blow it up

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

“An unprecedented operation of controlled pinpoint destruction of ship structure with shaped cumulative charges (adjacent structures were protected with metal, rubber and wood protective covers). The operation was successful, saving more then a year of time”

[runic ermine]

They did

[runic ermine]

Also there's a movie that recently came out about the italian navy

It's about when the Italian submarine Comandante Cappellini sunk the Belgian ship Kabalo, and Cappellini's commander Salvatore Todaro decided to disobey orders and to rescue the Kabalo's crew

Really great story

[clear scroll]

Me: designs it so I can eject the warp core if needed

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/11/22/3rd-fleet-aircraft-intact-as-navy-prepares-to-investigate-p-8-poseidon-mishap-in-hawaii

https://breakingdefense.com/2023/11/airbus-exploring-development-of-future-tanker-based-on-a330neo/

[manic latch]

https://www.forces.net/services/navy/strike-action-threatens-delay-new-royal-navy-submarines

[digital mantle]

What Japanese naval vessels carried the Z Flag aside from Mikasa, Musashi, and Yamato?

[manic latch]

Akagi and Zuikaku

Tho I'm not sure if Yamato sisters ever used those flags tho

[digital mantle]

Anyone else?

Did Nagato where one?

[manic latch]

No from what I know

I think it's a flag for morale

Or when you are about enter important stage of battle

Thus Akagi and Zuikaku

[autumn sorrel]

Make it a Cossack saber

[runic ermine]

Italy's army had successes but the main reason for their failures are bad logistics, supply issues, bad tactics and poor commanders though there were a few good ones like Giovanni Messe

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee5vpMosJys

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/P_6AkSYrRkI?si=xzM0GChvHA5yGM_5

[tribal mortar]

there are uboats sunk in southeast asia right?

[autumn sorrel]

Yes

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/pNlqEtNIhc4?si=p4A8u3nEV3-9-z-B

[frozen kestrel]

I just thought of something and now I'm curious. Are there any existing photos of Bismarck or Tirpitz's interiors? (Corridors, bunks, engine rooms, etc.)

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdpRZqA8I6I

[spring briar]

https://artlogic-res.cloudinary.com/w_1200,c_limit,f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto/artlogicstorage/jameshyman/images/view/7def3cdf0c56711475f5b3a625e54b83/jameshymangallery-the-countess-of-castiglione-in-collaboration-with-pierre-louis-pierson-la-comtesse-de-castiglione-un-dimanche-1861-1867.jpg

Countess of Castiglione

Niece of the count of Cavour

Mistress of Napoleon III

https://victorianparis.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/giorgio-1.jpg

When skin in AL

[spiral cedar]

Clearly, since the Kriegsmarine fired the first shots of the invasion of Poland, it was the Kriegsmarine expansion that caused WWII

[manic latch]

Tho when you think of it

Germany never really wanted to fight with Britain and I don't think expected to win easily over them

Wonder if they expected for it to do nothing and just make a ceasefire deal

[supple sandal]

STOP USING QUORA

[supple sandal]

IT FUCKING SUCK

[maiden citrus]

that's the humor

[subtle prawn]

That's the point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT1D3fh40Nk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwaVz3JFQxE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwY2uATMDe4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TXjhHNpNas

[haughty osprey]

Quora questions are literally being manufactured by AIs now

The site completely lost all of its credibility around 2018

It's done

Finished

[ivory ridge]

implying it ever had any

[tough quail]

quora has been viciously mocked since before 2018, yeah

and believe me it's not an AI thing

like yeah, some of them are, but people just ask the fucking dumbest questions

[spiral cedar]

Average Quora question and answer nowadays

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/mTRy4qq8SYI?si=19Fr6lPRhKGMRBld

[unkempt sedge]

Yet they seem to ignore the British Army was using the L1A1 (lisenced FN FAL) since the 1950's....

If you need a good laugh, just head over to Quora.

[spiral cedar]

Bismarck now fired 5 half salvos in 30 seconds, truly amazing

And apparently May 1941 to Dec 1941 is under two minutes

[maiden citrus]

longest two minutes in the west

[spiral cedar]

All radars are equivalent

[supple sandal]

Dude just stop

The fucking brain rot

[spiral cedar]

4 ships, 12 ships, eh, same thing really

What's a factor of 3 between friends

[strong plank]

The cutoff makes that so much funnier

[unkempt sedge]

Bismarck has to be the most overrated battleship of the war, not even the Yamato herself gets the praise like Bismarck or Tirpitz do.

They were not bad designs, they were average. I would go as far to say the Littorio's were better designs than Bismarck.

[strong plank]

Also anyone who unironically calls Bismarck ‘he’ is just

[supple sandal]

Wehraboo

[unkempt sedge]

Wehraboos going to Wehr...

[runic ermine]

Wehraboos and tojoboos are cringe

[supple sandal]

There isn't any other country that have this kind of fan

[runic ermine]

Japan and tojoboos

[supple sandal]

Never seen the Japan one

[runic ermine]

They will defend the messed up shit that japan did

While also denying it

[unkempt sedge]

Me neither, if Tojoboos exist they are quite rare as I have never had encounters with them.

[runic ermine]

I have and they suck

[spiral cedar]

And are these 10,000 tons of upgrades in the room with us now

[supple sandal]

@spiral cedar
Please

No more

Please

[strong plank]

No it’s funny

[supple sandal]

I can't take this
Would like someone to physically bomb Quora

[strong plank]

Lmao

[unkempt sedge]

I give credit where credit ia due. If there was a good type of surface ship the Kriegsmarine built. It was the Schnellboot. They were extremely effective. Moreso than Bismarck or Tirpitz.

[strong plank]

“Why does the FG42 have a much lighter recoil than the G3 or FAL?”

[spiral cedar]

What other ship could've surpassed the hit rate of a 1920s range table? Say, Prince of Wales, perhaps, with an equal hit % as Bismarck? Mm?

[strong plank]

Entire top answer is in Cyrillic

[supple sandal]

Instead of reward answers they reward questions

And stupid question generate rage bait

[unkempt sedge]

Just people trolling really.

[supple sandal]

For money

[strong plank]

Firearm understander

[supple sandal]

BECAUSE IT IS CHEAP

[spiral cedar]

Bruh

None of these are true

[strong plank]

Hey Jaba you remember when that YouTuber came in here

And claimed Bismarck never got penned

[spiral cedar]

Yeah, Yandev

[strong plank]

until someone pulled up the underwater archeological report

[supple sandal]

Mf is sink

[spiral cedar]

Impenetrable 320mmm vertical main belt vs. who-cares 340mm barbette

[supple sandal]

Did the mod banned this guy?

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642452370462343179/1167279693846822912/image0.jpg?ex=65693c6e&is=6556c76e&hm=fe0dc623ea3faaa27eaa10569f67f023f5f64ab3820acd3b9b6ea1c6c420e700&

[runic ermine]

E boats

[unkempt sedge]

Wehraboos be salty when their glorious Kruppsthal gets penned.

[unkempt sedge]

I believe there is one surviving example left in the UK somewhere.

[spiral cedar]

Oh, now G3Ms can drop Type 93 torpedoes apparently

[runic ermine]

And everyone gets salty when you say that italy actually had some successes

[supple sandal]

I seen US veterans make books calling the Sherman death trap

Ain't the only reason is that enough people survive and going back to call it a "death trap"

[runic ermine]

This is some kancolle type bullshit

[spiral cedar]

All torpedoes are created equal

[supple sandal]

Expect the Mk14

[runic ermine]

I didn't get the shimakaze torps

[runic ermine]

But what I mean is I remember a scene where there's a quiz and the answer is that the type 93 oxygen torpedo is better than American torpedo because it uses oxygen. What

[spiral cedar]

Yeah, that sank more tonnage than any other non-German torpedo I believe

[supple sandal]

Because they made so much of it?

[spiral cedar]

Because Japanese ASW memes

[strong plank]

US submarine crews when there is japanese shipping at the function

[unkempt sedge]

That's nothing honestly compared to the salt people make when one argues the Richelieu's were some of the best battleships of the war design-wise.

[spiral cedar]

tfw an entire high value convoy gets maybe 1 escort

[runic ermine]

The Canadian navy had really good ASW capabilities because of the situation with the battle of the Atlantic and the battle of the saint Lawrence River

[unkempt sedge]

As a Yank, Canada's contributions to the battle of the Atlantic were always downplayed. They protected the U.S. coast quite a bit while our Navy was fighting elsewhere.

They will always have my respect!

[runic ermine]

Brothers in arms

Forever and always

[spiral cedar]

glances at Scharnhorsts
glances at German DDs

[runic ermine]

Poor z23

[clear scroll]

True, this is considering Brittan has territories half way around the world (cough australia)

[clear scroll]

Mmm

[spiral cedar]

Just build more ships

EZ

[clear scroll]

Your forgetting bout the economy

[spiral cedar]

so did the Nazis

[clear scroll]

True

E-boat?

[unkempt sedge]

A Schnellboot. German Motor torpedo boat.

[clear scroll]

Ahhh

[runic ermine]

12 hippers? They only finished 3

[clear scroll]

A what if situation my friend

Sadly politicians do t always know what's best

Ya see if funny moustache man hadn't saked/killed his officers and listened to them, ww2 would've turned out differently

But no it's do what I say or you die

Also pop quiz, where was the fully automatic rifle invented

[spiral cedar]

Earth

[clear scroll]

Which country

[strong plank]

Italy

[clear scroll]

Nope

Ww2 germany

[unkempt sedge]

Would fit in my alternate universe "industrialized axis Qing China 1939 allied Japan scenario."

Basically Germany grants China license production of the admiral hipper class.

[strong plank]

lol what

[clear scroll]

Hitler said no to its use but the troops said fuck you and snuck em onto the Russian front

[strong plank]

the

fully automatic rifle

you mean like the lewis gun

[autumn sorrel]

Is this myth again?

[clear scroll]

Yea, it was invented in Germany and saw combat on the Russian front

[strong plank]

the one invented in 1911

[clear scroll]

Rifle not machine gun

[autumn sorrel]

Hitler let his generals pretty much free reign to do whatever the fuck they want early in the war

[strong plank]

or the BAR

made in 1917

[clear scroll]

Rifle

Not machine gun

[autumn sorrel]

BAR is shit

[strong plank]

or the fedorov

[chilly flower]

I believe you mean the concept of the Assault Rifle
Automatic Rifles existed well beforehand, with stuff like the Cei-Rigotti, BAR, Chauchat and Lewis, Federov, etc

[strong plank]

made in 1916

[chilly flower]

The distinction with an Assault Rifle is the intermediate cartridge

[clear scroll]

Yea, that, same thing to me

[strong plank]

you do know what the R in BAR stands for right

[autumn sorrel]

Russian don’t have a concept of assault rifle, they call them submachine gun

[strong plank]

well no they did

they made one in '36

just not in wide issue afaik

[autumn sorrel]

AVT?

[strong plank]

AVS

[autumn sorrel]

They want it to be universal, prob is they can’t produce enough in number

[chilly flower]

Still falls under autorifle rather than assault

[strong plank]

point is the idea of a full auto rifle was around since ww1

[chilly flower]

[autumn sorrel]

Mfw when American managed to give everyone a Garand while Soviet keep churning out Mosin

[strong plank]

bc when you've got something as useful as the machine gun, well you're gonna want to make it mobile

soviet manufacturing wasnt the problem

they churned out plenty of sub guns

[chilly flower]

Would've had SVT-40s be more widespread if it wasn't for Barbarossa :(

[unkempt sedge]

Mosin-Nagant were decent rifles and still good enough to get the job done.

The war prevented mass production of the SVT and phasing out of the Mosins.

[autumn sorrel]

PPS is arguably a better last ditch weapon and PPSH production line was streamlined and simplified to the make it as cheap as possible

[strong plank]

I love that browning saw the lewis gun and chauchat and went

"nah mine needs to be shouldered"

[unkempt sedge]

I do wish to own one someday. Sadly they got really rare and expensive in the U.S. Well most milisurp is so that's not a suprise. Arisaka ammo cost will make your jaw drip.

[strong plank]

"give it rifle ergonomics"

[chilly flower]

Same

a BAR would also be a dream even if it would be pain to carry it around

[autumn sorrel]

He should have live a bit longer and invent AR before AR was a thing

[chilly flower]

honestly would settle for those semi-auto M1918A3 reproductions Ohio Ordinance has been churning out

I do know a buddy who actually owns an Arisaka though

[autumn sorrel]

BAR still heavy af and not worth for the amount of it can dish out compare to other option

[runic ermine]

I'd say that the Fedorov avtomat is the first AR

[chilly flower]

I care not for how it compares
It'd just be sick to have a BAR for the gun itself

[unkempt sedge]

As a yank, I love the BAR, however of I had to choose. I would pick a Bren gun or a Type 96/99 lmg over it. Better ergonomics overall.

[strong plank]

broke 'stg44 was the first AR'

woke 'a GI with a garand and a belt loop was the first AR'

[autumn sorrel]

Just use Czech gun, ZB lmg always delivered

[unkempt sedge]

I won't disagree there. Bren is a lisenced Czech ZB anyway.

[runic ermine]

Meanwhile italy had mussolini's pizza cutter

[autumn sorrel]

And then there are PK, Kalashnikov know how to make a gun that work perfectly

[chilly flower]

I can kinda see that, especially with the cartridge

[autumn sorrel]

Mfw when everything Kalashnikov made is basically an AK but different

Still work tho

[unkempt sedge]

Not all italian machine guns were rubbish though.

They did have the Breda-SAFAT 12.7

[runic ermine]

Kinda like their version of the m2 browning

[chilly flower]

It is based on the m1919 yes

that said it isn't an infantry weapon (not with the Italian Army, anyways...)

Aircraft MG

[strong plank]

box with toob

[unkempt sedge]

You are correct. I was refering to MG's in general though.

[chilly flower]

Fair, its really just that the Breda 30 was terrible

[unkempt sedge]

I certainly am not disagreeing on that point.

[runic ermine]

Stripper clip fed lmg

[autumn sorrel]

Should have make a copy of ZB-26

[unkempt sedge]

Even the japanese hopper-fed type 11 was better than the modello 30. Then again it's a low bar to hit.

[runic ermine]

I got one for my minifig

[strong plank]

brickarms?

[runic ermine]

No brick warriors but I think brickarms did just make one with a stripper clip

Also sorry for the blurry photo

[unkempt sedge]

Japan did. They captured a lot of zb-26's in China. They even made their own version of the ZB-30 for tanks.

https://youtu.be/RGoKCpFZxFI?si=HmFXJq1Znkiud5WJ

[runic ermine]

They also captured 285 ZH-29s and tried to make a copy

[unkempt sedge]

It's a good reliable design. I would say they would be dumb not to. The British even used it.

[runic ermine]

They made this thing. The type otsu

10-25 made

[unkempt sedge]

Ah! I remember Forgotten weapons doing a video on it. Same with the Type 4 Garand.

Japanese guns get a bad rep in general. I will defend the Type 96/99 as a really good LMG. I'd put it right up there with the ZB-26 and the Bren. I could even argue it's one of the best LMG's of the war, period!

https://youtu.be/ckB3e6IObU4?si=XLK1ijn-jvJo4tnP

https://youtu.be/41DL89Av7do?si=qhwUJNvV3htSgzOC

I remember somewhere that Australian commandos loved using the ones they captured in New Guinea. I do not remember the source however.

[runic ermine]

It also appears in enlisted

[autumn sorrel]

I never understand why people so negative about gun being copy, it should be a complement bc it is so good that other have to copy it

[unkempt sedge]

Some people think it's better to waste money and come up with your own design instead of just copying or lisence-producing another design which saves you money in the long run.

[frozen kestrel]

What is Volga's ship basis? Because I just had an existential crisis trying to figure out if she's real or not?

[unkempt sedge]

I believe Volga is either a project. 72 or 71 carrier design. She was never built. Basically a design study.

[frozen kestrel]

Thank you for clarifying, because this nearly made me have an aneurysm

[unkempt sedge]

Happy to help!

[tough quail]

because they got, uh

invaded

and panicked and swapped production back to the mosin

which proved to not be necessary whatsoever

given they simultaneously managed to build more SMGs than the literal entire rest of the world combined

garand production would've probably gotten weird if like, the heer teleported into mexico and set texas on fire or some shit

[junior trench]

They were certainly liked by the Italians for as long as there wasn't really a readily available weapon of comparative size and weight to them.

But I think it's worth noting how quickly Italian air designs totally dump them in favor of 20mm weapons once they're on hand.

[tough quail]

not that the US shouldn't get credit for settling on the garand earlier tho, and skipping the weird AVS ghetto m14 step

that delayed full scale production by like 2-3 years

[junior trench]

And it's especially note worthy that it just... Happens all at once, mostly down to the 12.7mm weapon not having Browning/UB ballistics making a strong argument for it's continued use

You see vaguely the same sort of thing happen to the Japanese 12.7mm

Gets thrown out by the IJA in favor of the even more embiggened 20mm Browning

Because lackluster ballistics and relying on HE filler in a 12.7mm means switching to a 20mm is just logical

Meanwhile the IJN had a reasonably punchy 13.2mm to keep using

[tough quail]

eternally dismayed we lost our one chance to replace the M2 with something substantially cooler due to the fucking P90 of all things

weird FN fuck gun my beloved

can we at least jury rig M2s to be dual feed because i think it looks cool

[junior trench]

I think I DeMarred 15.5mm APDS at some point

One sec

[tough quail]

[junior trench]

15.5x106mm APDS: 60mm steel @ 450 meters

Fuck your BTR and the BTR behind it

[tough quail]

thats the gooooood shit

[junior trench]

That being said

That's only like

5-10 mm more than .50 SLAP

Under the same sort of inputs

Which already does the same thing

[tough quail]

yeah, but weird calibers tickle my brain

[strong plank]

There was the M73 wasn’t there

But it was ass

[spiral cedar]

Dozens of capital ships

The WWI Grand Fleet resurrected to chase her

[strong plank]

Double digits if you count in Roman numerals

[clear scroll]

Yes

Bismark: sinks 1 ship
Royal navy: sends all the ships

[spiral cedar]

People can't count

[clear scroll]

I can count

[wintry moat]

That is a mental image and a half

[strong plank]

did britain even have double digits of capital ships at the time?

[spiral cedar]

No

Well

[strong plank]

weren't the illustrious' still in various states of commissioning

[spiral cedar]

Do you count carriers

[strong plank]

ah

[clear scroll]

I do

Its just back then battleships were the capital ships

[strong plank]

I forgot about the 3000 miscellaneous aircraft carriers of winston churchill

[autumn sorrel]

So, why did European army change from tricorn hat to wearing shako during Napoleonic era?

I tried asking on Quora and the answer is vague

[tough quail]

didn't they have double digit capital ships even without carriers

[strong plank]

how many of the KGVs were commissioned by then

wait I forgot

the royal navy had like

[tough quail]

two Nelsons, iirc four QEs still, R&R, PoW, KGV, a few revenges

[strong plank]

ww1 battleships spilling out of their drawers

[tough quail]

but obviously only.. iirc, renown, Vicky, ark, KGV, pow, and Rodney was going after bisquick

[strong plank]

its like how I forget the USN had 3 new mexicos, 2 Tennessees, and 2 NYs posted up in 1941

[tough quail]

I might be hallucinating Vicky though that sounds weird

[spiral cedar]

British capital ships, 25 May 1941:

Queen Elizabeth class
Queen Elizabeth: in Mediterranean
Warspite: damaged by air attack in Mediterranean
Valiant: damaged by air attack in Mediterranean
Barham: in Mediterranean
Valiant: in repairs after submarine attack in Atlantic

Revenge class
Revenge: in North Atlantic
Resolution: refit in US
Royal Oak: sunk
Royal Sovereign: in North Atlantic
Ramillies: in North Atlantic

Nelson class
Nelson: in South Atlantic
Rodney: in North Atlantic

King George V class
King George V: in North Atlantic
Prince of Wales: lightly damaged by gunfire in North Atlantic

Renown class
Renown: in Mediterranean
Repulse: in North Atlantic

Admiral class
Hood: sunk

[tough quail]

so fifteen discounting the weirdo carriers

[strong plank]

now im imagining an alt history guadalcanal

but instead of washington and sodak

[tough quail]

...do monitors technically count as capital ships by treaty standards?

[strong plank]

Nimitz just sends in like 4 standards

[spiral cedar]

So of 15 floating capital ships, 4 were stuck in dock for repairs or refit, 3 were operational in the Med, 1 was below the equator, and 6.5 were in the North Atlantic

[spiral cedar]

Below 10k tons so I don't think so

[tough quail]

gotchu

[spiral cedar]

.5 being PoW since she was operational but of degraded capability

So the Brits do have just about enough to quality for 2 digit operational capital ships at the time, but a third are out of theatre and otherwise busy dealing with actual navies

[maiden citrus]

that's not an alt hist that's the ideal timeline

[spiral cedar]

The US had the battleships for it, just not the tankers

Due to the shortage of fast tankers it was either the battleline or the carriers, so the latter got priority given what Japan had deployed in the South Pacific

[maiden citrus]

yee

[spiral cedar]

In early August 1941, the US had seven operational slow BBs en route to Pearl

In late August however, three were sent to either refits or gunnery experiments, leaving four ready for combat duties

While ready for combat duty (including Mark 3 FC radars and improved AA armament from their West Coast refits), the ships were held back due to the aforementioned fast tanker shortage. They were considered for the Aleutians operations, but the risk-benefit ratio didn't seem worth it for a relative sideshow. In November 1942 the logistics situation was considered sufficient for the four slow BBs to be sent to the South Pacific (Fiji), but Halsey viewed them as a liability (too valuable for later battles to risk now) and they weren't sent to the frontline, leaving the fast BBs, cruisers, and destroyers to hold back the Japanese surface forces. Only in February 1943 were the slow BBs ordered to stop a renewed Japanese effort, but intelligence determined the Japanese task force was a hoax before they arrived, so they turned back.

[shrewd pecan]

hate the RWS placement

[strong plank]

that's the new marine amphib right?

the top one I mean

[desert agate]

The old 13.5in-ers

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1727533078153756907

[spring briar]

Shako’s came into fashion

And bicorn hats went out of fashion

They were also just better for soldiers

[spiral cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

According to a translated article by firearms enthusiast and historian Andrey Ulanov, the Soviet Union acquired a single M1 Garand rifle through Lend-Lease and tested it in 1943. Lend-Lease shipment records showed that the United States did send a single M1 Garand rifle to the USSR

According to Ulanov, Soviet testers were impressed with the M1 Garand’s accuracy and reliability, but they considered it too complicated and heavy for the average Red Army soldier

[manic latch]

This doesn't make sense tho

Since death of SVT-40 because it was more complex and expensive to manufacture, most production was suspended in favor of the simpler M1891 rifles and ultimately the PPSh-41 submachine gun. Production of the SVT-40 finally ended in January 1945 with a little more than 1.6 million of the rifles made. A sniper variant was produced in small numbers (about 50,000) and outfitted with the Russian PU 3.5x scope.

[autumn sorrel]

It like saying SVT is too heavy and mechanical complicated for average Soviet conscript

[manic latch]

Exactly

[manic latch]

She is likely the heavier Option 2 of Project 72, basically Soviet Illustrious

Chkalov is Project71B

[autumn sorrel]

Didn't Guard unit was still prioritize for SVT shipment? I remember their table of equipment in 1945 dictate their rifle squad to arm with SVT

[junior trench]

too heavy
Garand is only 300 grams heavier than an M91/30

manlet conscript skill issue ig

[spiral cedar]

I know giving Rodney her credit is necessary and all, but her initial gunnery had issues. Her fourth salvo was still 2000 yards off target by her own records, and she didn't straddle until salvo 18

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eGNxR0ZLr8

[unkempt sedge]

https://youtu.be/w_Zn9NyQtxw?si=oFQQ9D56h_7FJDUc

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPkNmIhlhKE

[runic ermine]

How high was the French navy when making this?

[desert agate]

It wasn't the worst idea tbh

And it's not like the French were the only ones to do it

[runic ermine]

Still somehow better than putting torpedo tubes on a CV

[desert agate]

The British mounted a 12in gun on some of their subs

[runic ermine]

I'm looking at you Béarn

[runic ermine]

But still the plane. Why? It's a submarine

[desert agate]

Wait till you see what the Germans were doing to Graff Zeppelin

[desert agate]

For spotting targets and fall of shot?

Japanese subs carried planes too

[runic ermine]

Ok that's a good point but don't squadrons support that kinda thing rather than one float plane

[desert agate]

And the plane was later replaced with a gyrocopter

[desert agate]

Squadrons of what?

[runic ermine]

I already know. It's also referenced in her rigging

[runic ermine]

Nvm it was dumb

[desert agate]

submarine squadrons were an immature concept and land based aircraft didnt have the range in the 20s

[runic ermine]

Germans be like: Schlachtschiffkanone

On a CV

[runic ermine]

I honestly forgot that a lot of ship designs are from the 20s

When technology wasn't as advanced and concepts were still being worked out

However I still think that torpedos on a CV is dumb

[desert agate]

early carriers were developed in a time when people didnt really know how to use carriers or what they would do in a battle
the Lexingtons and the early Japanese carriers both mounted 8in guns and Furious had an 18in gun

hell Akagi comissioned with 3 decks

[runic ermine]

Yeah but still. Torpedo tubes