history

[autumn sorrel]

Those little fucker with their cute little eyes and ears

[spring briar]

Cats have evolved to be more cute
In order to be more likely to survive in our world

https://tenor.com/view/discord-cat-bubble-gif-25359692

[thorny patio]

Funniest shit is... Wasn't the cat domesticated back in like... Ancient times?

[desert agate]

we killed the last giants in Afghanistan

[autumn sorrel]

They never were

Human were the one that got domesticated

[junior trench]

cats self-/co-domesticated back when agriculture started taking off

[spring briar]

As far back as the first kingdom of egypt
And probably further back even

[remote monolith]

although, while taming might not be possible, non-avian dinosaur farms might actually be fairly viable

[junior trench]

dogs are absolutely prehistoric

[thorny patio]

So would that be before or after we domesticated wolf's?

[spring briar]

Cats hunt rats and mice
Rats and mice eat grain
Grain important
Cat friend

[junior trench]

after

[autumn sorrel]

Either they taste like chicken or taste like beef, it still a win win

[spring briar]

Far far faaaaar after that

Cats have only been domesticated since we had the need to store grain and crops

Dogs we had from when we were still hunter gatherers

[thorny patio]

Jesus damn humans, unlocking animal husbandry, like at turn 10 XD

[remote monolith]

like reptiles dinosaurs lay massive clutches of eggs per individual and reach sexual maturity in a fairly short amount of time, eg Sauropods reach maturity in less than 15 years. You basically only need to keep 2-3 alive and have them pump up thousands of babies to be grown and then have the meat slaughtered for consumption

[junior trench]

human-dog relations are an absolute anomaly

two apex predators

co-domesticating

[autumn sorrel]

Unironically, the cutest cat is a fucking wild cat live in a middle of desert and still hunt like how they were for millennia

[thorny patio]

Do u like meat too?

Yeah

Let's hunt together!

[spring briar]

Human hands are still adapted to hold primitive stone tools
Since we’ve been using those for around a million years or more if some sources are to be believed

[remote monolith]

now admittedly they required ludicrous amount of fuel to sustain, as an entire forest might not be enough to keep them all fed adequately, and you need to think about how to house 30+ tons, 100 feet long animals...

but the basic principle is there

[junior trench]

sauropod veal

[autumn sorrel]

Are they gonna produce more fart than cow

[remote monolith]

oh yes

considering smallish sauropod dinosaurs are the size of 2-3 elephants

you can imagine their shit production

[desert agate]

fertiliser

[thorny patio]

So what I'm hearing is... I can call my green-cheeked Conure Parrot "Dino" and I'd be partly accurate?

[spring briar]

Yes

[remote monolith]

not partly'

[spring briar]

Birds are dinosaurs

[remote monolith]

100%

birds ARE dinosaurs

[thorny patio]

They even sound like em

[remote monolith]

we've been eating and living alongside dinosaurs for as long as we diverged from other primates

ergo your chances of getting killed by a dinosaur is small, but never zero

[spring briar]

They did survive the kpg mass extinction (atleast the avian ones) and have become one of the most succesful animals

[remote monolith]

now see, this is still debatable because dinosaur vocalization is a difficult topic

[spring briar]

Meanwhile amphibians just chilling

[thorny patio]

What about the aquatic ones?

[remote monolith]

they definitely can't do bird noises

but they likely can do some form of vocalizations still

[remote monolith]

not dinosaurs, those are the komodo dragon's big brothers

[maiden citrus]

birds are so close to dinosaurs that in some modern organization, birds are classified as reptiles

[remote monolith]

cladistic classification yeah

[spring briar]

I am actually a fish

[thorny patio]

I mean... I wouldn't call a bird a Mammal considering they lay eggs

[spring briar]

[autumn sorrel]

Only reason to resurrect dino would be for meat

[remote monolith]

which unfortunately is so incomprehensible for a lot of people that schools mostly sticks to old Linnaean separation

[spring briar]

Mammals lay eggs

[desert agate]

there is no such thing as a fish

[autumn sorrel]

I don't want to hear about an amusement park, I want a dino farm

[thorny patio]

some Mammals lay eggs

[remote monolith]

some mammals do lay eggs, but we're Diapsids, not Sauropsids

[spring briar]

Some of them atleast

[thorny patio]

Yes yes I know

[spring briar]

And other mammals keep their egg inside
And give birth to live young

It’s all connected

[autumn sorrel]

Shark do both

[remote monolith]

Sauropsids are where reptiles, birds and dinosaurs chill, while Diapsids are where us mammals and things like the Dimetrodon chills

[maiden citrus]

yeah, it's often not that simple

[spring briar]

Sharks are based

[maiden citrus]

some sharks lay eggs, some give live birth

(think it's almost half and half too)

[thorny patio]

Eggs are legit just evolution going: "hey so I heard you gotta give birth in water, so I put some water in a shell for your young to grow in"

[spring briar]

Maka are you a shark

[remote monolith]

see this is why biologists gave up on classification based on morphology and focused on cladistic relationships instead

[autumn sorrel]

More like a replication of cell create by 2 other cell donors

[spring briar]

Wouldn’t that make you mama __Mako__wee

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/shark-swimming-nature-ocean-scary-gif-17097313

[thorny patio]

Im just saying, the fact that humans evolved so we DON'T need a hard egg OR have to give birth in the water is amazing when you think about how evolution has gone

[spring briar]

I love sharks

[maiden citrus]

they are pretty cool

[remote monolith]

because you have shit like dolphins and sharks sharing the same general body plan and sometimes birth mechanism but they're not the fucking same at all and are ultra removed from each other

[autumn sorrel]

Richie, The Beast of the Gévaudan, what is your theory about that?

[spring briar]

Humans have evolved to the point our offspring is useless until they are about 13

[thorny patio]

Amazing

[spring briar]

Simply to sustain that huge brain

[remote monolith]

huge ass, hungry wolves I guess

[spring briar]

And those skills

[remote monolith]

maneaters is still fairly common these days

can imagine them to be a problem back then

[spring briar]

Simply a very big wolf

[autumn sorrel]

So, it just exaggeration on the hunter part to make them less incompetent?

[spring briar]

A wolf that learned that countryfolk are easy pray when they don’t mount a counter

[thorny patio]

O-oh here she comes,
Watch out boi
SHELL CHEW YOU UP 🎶

[remote monolith]

like, the Gevaudan beast is tame compared to say, the Sloth Bear of Mysore who killed some 400 people by raking their face off and slinking into the dark

[autumn sorrel]

The what?

[remote monolith]

a rogue bear from India who rampaged for a few years killing hundreds of people before getting shot

[spring briar]

Mind you hunting a beast like that back then wasn’t so straightforward
They didn’t have long range rifles or anything back then

Also think of the Savo lions

[thorny patio]

Was he on opium?

[spring briar]

Same principle

[remote monolith]

was about to say, there's the Savo lions

and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankebetsu_brown_bear_incident

[autumn sorrel]

Damn

[thorny patio]

Was making a period joke on cocaine bear

You've heard of cocaine bear... Now get ready for his grandpa

[spring briar]

The best remedy against “monsters”

Exploding lead bullets

[thorny patio]

OPIUM "POPPY" BEAR

[remote monolith]

but yeah, maneaters aren't uncommon

[spring briar]

At all

[remote monolith]

sometimes animals happen to get a taste of human meat

and started craving more

[thorny patio]

Same principle as to why we shouldn't feed animals human food normally

[autumn sorrel]

Those eyes clearly have murder intents in them

[spring briar]

[autumn sorrel]

[autumn sorrel]

cough cough Indian throw half burnt burial pyre into the river cough cough

[remote monolith]

also there's at least one case of a reported man-eating elephant

[autumn sorrel]

????????

[thorny patio]

ELEPHANT CHOSE VIOLENCE

[remote monolith]

as in, the elephant killed humans and started chewing on the corpse

[remote monolith]

apparently it was blinded by revenge because its calf got shot

[thorny patio]

Doom music starts playing

[thorny patio]

Sounds like Babar went baballistic

[remote monolith]

also all the flesh-eating was killing the elephant since it can't digest meat, when it got shot there were rotting, undigested meat hanging off its mouth

[thorny patio]

I'll see myself out for that one XD

[remote monolith]

ah here's the article for it https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/conflict-turns-jumbo-into-maneater/articleshow/38504790.cms

[autumn sorrel]

Welp, time to add another animal on my "Stay the fuck away" list

[proud saddle]

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to ask but I'm currently building a model kit of Akagi and want to check with military history buffs to make sure it's configured in a way that is reasonably historically accurate

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/fujimi-46051-akagi--1182459 this is the kit in question

[eternal veldt]

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=35007 check here instead.

[proud saddle]

For example what is this aerial looking thing on the side

The instructions say it can be raised or lowered

I assume this is supposed to represent the akagi around the time of pearl harbor

[eternal veldt]

Those are the aerial antennaes.

[proud saddle]

So how would the planes be placed on the flight deck

[eternal veldt]

They are lowered during flight operations to avoid collisions, but otherwise remain lifted in that position.

[proud saddle]

In a historically plausible way

The kit comes with 3 dive bombers 3 zeros and 3 fighters I believe

The instructions don't say how to place them on the deck though

[proud saddle]

I see... Well they are already glued in place rip

Should i cut it down and take them down then?

The response speed wow

Resident history buff

[eternal veldt]

Just leave it be. A deck park is a deck park.

No, you just caught me at the right time.

Alternatively, consult the many photos of Akagi taken in her lifetime.

[proud saddle]

Ok

This particular kit only comes with 9 planes so I can't exactly recreate that

[proud saddle]

^

[eternal veldt]

Well, then don't. Just leave them scattered on the flight deck like so.

[proud saddle]

so it would not make sense to have the aerials raised and have planes on the deck at the same time?

i assume the planes are normally stored in the internal hanger

during travel or whatnot?

[proud saddle]

ok I think I'll just go with 2-3 planes on the deck then

the elevators are not movable for this kit

should they be the same type of plane or doesn't matter

in your opinion

[eternal veldt]

Well, no, they had what I called the deck parks. Not a great amount, but still there.

Just up to you, to be honest.

Its not unreasonable unless you suddenly put, say, a D4Y or a C6N1 on it.

Kit should come with A6M, D4Y, and B5N, all of which Akagi operated.

[proud saddle]

im not entire sure what you mean by this

im new to military ship models

[eternal veldt]

Deck park - planes parked on the deck.

You often see this on US carriers- planes crammed to the brim with planes

So what you'd do is launch the planes parked on the deck first, then take the ones from the internal hangars, warm up and spool them, and then also launch them

[proud saddle]

okay

thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psxHN0s8Vwo I think i'll try to copy the deck parking(?) layout from this guy

he's building the same kit but with alot of extra aftermarket parts and painting etc

except on mine the antennae will be raised

probably more pragmatic because i think they have a high chance of breaking off

from the model

[proud saddle]

Thanks for the explanation

[eternal veldt]

Truth be told, I usually install the tiny, fragile parts after I have finished painting nearly everything.

[proud saddle]

I'm gluing on everything first then doing a topcoat

Before I paint

Just dark wash

Maybe some extra details though I'm not knowledgeable about the exact colora

[eternal veldt]

Well, for colours, you could do Tamiya's, Mr. Hobby, or water-based acrylics like Vallejo or AK interactive.

http://vanguard.my.coocan.jp/study/study3.htm If you can read Japanese, Akagi at the onset of the Pacific War had Yokosuka Naval Arsenal Grey. Each of the four major naval arsenals of Japan (Yokosuka, Kure, Maizuru, Sasebo) had their own shades of grey.

Sasebo is known to be a deeper shade compared to others.

Clockwise from top left: Yokosuka, Maizuru, Sasebo, Kure.

[proud saddle]

I see

Thanks for the reference

I don't think I'll stress too much about the colors for now

Or I'll end up just never finishing a model

[proud saddle]

Why are there so many planes on this illustration if they didn't do much 'deck park'?

Are all the planes brought up from the hanger before they launch?

[eternal veldt]

Most are.

Again, like you said, I wouldn't fuss over the aircraft too much.

Speaking of carriers...

[proud saddle]

?

[strong plank]

if I remember correctly, Japanese carrier doctrine held that dive-bombers were to be armed on the flight deck

so you'd have the whole squadron up on the flight deck waiting for their turn to launch

most likely they included it in the illustration bc it would be useful to know how many aircraft you could have arranged on the flight deck at one time

[strong plank]

and yeah but you’re going to have them brought up as a squadron before launch

it’s not like with modern carriers where you bring the aircraft up in pairs and launch them off immediately

[desert agate]

they were armed below deck and fueled on deck iirc

[grave ravine]

the pictures are probably just of a strike being spotted

the Japanese would spot a whole strike package on the rear of the flight deck

so as to get it in the air in a short amount of time, to allow better coordination

[strong plank]

I thought the distinction was something like

dive bomber were to be armed on the flight deck, torpedo bombers were to be armed in the hangar

bc I thought it contributed to the whole Nagumo midway carrier kerfuffle

[grave ravine]

no DBs were also armed in the hangars

[inland aspen]

@cerulean lagoon

[cerulean lagoon]

I see what you mean

This is so random

[desert agate]

shattered sword @strong plank

seems we were both right

just talking about different carriers

[strong plank]

Ok yeah that makes sense

I remember the arm on deck vs arm in hangar distinction from Battle History of the Imperial Japanese Navy

in how it talked about midway

[thorny patio]

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/national/military-news/navy-announces-plan-finish-dismantling-former-uss-enterprise-aircraft-carrier/291-8b587282-2804-4dc0-b354-afdd772e22cf

A farewell salute, gentleman... To another enty ready to sail into heaven

[maiden citrus]

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/pour-one-out-so-long-bye-bye-gif-19569425

[strong plank]

[manic latch]

Heaven.....Enty in Vietnam... "Napalm sticks to kids"

[thorny patio]

It just sucks we can't save her

[somber knoll]

It's been an honor, big E. your two SKK, Capt. Archer and Rear Admiral "Maverick" Mitchell will remember your service.

[strong plank]

You can’t really save a nuke carrier unfortunately

She served her country well

she laid the foundation for future US nuclear carriers, and her name will continue serving

that’s all you can really ask for

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrique_Nationale_AS_24

[sleek folio]

anime moments in irl ships

[thorn trail]

Wait this was Matapan right

wasn't there like uh

a short while where the British admiral wanted to tow the stricken ships back as like war prizes or smth

[sleek folio]

yes

this is in Matapan

[eternal veldt]

I mean, if it is clear that the ship could not be reasonably saved, the only solution you have is to send her to the bottom to prevent capture or otherwise any kinds of data leaks to the enemy

Even something as seemingly trivial as a damage control booklet of Bismarck, taken off a survivor after the ship was sunk, was heavily examined upon by the Royal Navy and eventually caused the ruling out any kinds of engagement by the older battleships against the Tirpitz.

[chilly osprey]

The British were interesting in towing Pola, who had been immobilized by a torpedo hit and, while not actually taking part in the battle, was the reason it happened in the first place.

The rest of the ships, though, no.

[tribal mortar]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1PX-pdyiTw

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1699455266025033862

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1982, the Danish frigate HDMS Peder Skram accidentally launched a Harpoon missile due to a technical malfunction. The so-called "Oops Missile" ("Hovsa Missil" in Danish) destroyed 4 holiday cottages and damaged 130 other buildings in Lumsaas, Denmark. No one was injured.

Twitter · Sep 6, 2023, 4:11 PM

https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/germany-italy-spain-and-sweden-together-to-design-a-new-tank/
https://news.yahoo.com/germany-forges-pact-leopard-2-122117972.html

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3ZVFDonYXo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jyplIo_yN0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0wBe50oXJE

[grave ravine]

Peder Skram is preserved in Copenhagen

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Jykol7hEM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1699406875710665077

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1947, a captured German V-2 was launched from USS Midway as part of "Operation Sandy" to test the feasibility of using large long-range rockets on ships. The V-2 tilted but corrected itself before breaking apart at 12,000 feet. The test was considered a success.

Likes

627

Retweets

138

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 6, 2023, 12:59 PM

[manic latch]

Tfw Aim-9M in WT

Aim-9M: Unflareable beast

R-73: thrust vectoring maniac

[dusty kraken]

truly top tier air rb is an enjoyable experience

[tough quail]

cancer begets cancer

we hit the unavoidable death singularity a lot faster than i figured we would

[tough quail]

advanced technology

[runic ermine]

The first Challenger 2 got destroyed in ukraine

Like the only one ever destroyed before this was due to friendly fire

[subtle prawn]

Please note that it's a banned subject here in this channel

[tough quail]

it's not exactly some big british ownzoning anyway

it's a mothballed cr2 literally without TES kits

if the thing isn't even at british "theatre entry standard" for fighting insurgencies... yeah i dunno what anyone was expecting

[manic latch]

@tough quail https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/09/06/us-army-scraps-abrams-tank-upgrade-unveils-new-modernization-plan/

[manic latch]

Love how current events lessons went: "Maybe we need more mobility over weight now"

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/09/06/navy-reveals-contract-costs-of-latest-10-hull-destroyer-deal

[tough quail]

quacken i am literally defending the thing

please try to rub your braincells together before you speak

in your weird bizarro universe

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

[strong plank]

I wonder if this new M1E3 will event the DLP program

It sounds like a new production variant that’ll require some redesigning

[tough quail]

step in the right direction tho

good shit

[grave ravine]

not necessarily

there were things we kind of needed on sepv4

[strong plank]

Wonder what they’ll do to get the weight down

more modern gun and electronics?

A lot of the verbiage seems to evoke the DLP

The M1E3 Abrams will “include the best features” of the M1A2 SEPv4 and will be compliant with modular open-systems architecture standards, according to the statement, which will allow for faster and more efficient technology upgrades.

“We must optimize the Abrams’ mobility and survivability to allow the tank to continue to close with and destroy the enemy as the apex predator on future battlefields.”

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOUPB4bb8d0

[maiden citrus]

pretty easy to defend too since it's believed it just hit a mine, iirc, and everyone got out and is fine, sooo

[strong plank]

armchair defense analysts when the landmine specifically designed to destroy armored vehicles destroys an armored vehicle

[cerulean lagoon]

Have assault rifles even improved in any drastic way over the last 20 years

[strong plank]

I mean according to the army, the M16 is the pinnacle of ARs

so take that as you will

[shrewd pecan]

new materials have allowed for lighter rifles, higher accuracy alongside otheer improvements

[strong plank]

that and the much greater availability and variety of optics, lasers, etc

the last 20 years have seen a greater shift towards modularity and customization

[tough quail]

arty according to ukraine's own release iirc

[maiden citrus]

yeah it was taken out by arty after that

but a vehicle sitting abandoned due to a mine is uh

not exactly hard to take out with artillery

[tough quail]

there isn't an mbt that will ever exist that's going to drive off from a 6" shell hitting it anyway

[junior trench]

Kind of sort of not really

[tough quail]

so who gives a shit

[maiden citrus]

is that a challenge

you know me

[tough quail]

oh no

[maiden citrus]

-boots up sprocket-

alright do not go below goal is 5 mph

[junior trench]

Most modern rifle development has been an effort to achieve the results of the AR-15's forged/cast and machined aluminum without requiring the effort and investment for that kind of manufacturing

And it's pretty much universally peaked at "about the same, if a little worse"

[tough quail]

my only serious issue with most AR-15 oids is that rounded rifles look flimsy to my brain

i like my slab guns

[junior trench]

Usually worse by being heavier

Which is hilarious

[tough quail]

its why i can't go back to old battletech art with noodle arms either so it's not some america bias thing either

[junior trench]

Because 90s space age polymer guns needing to slap on more polymer to match metallic components was just a hilarious design era

"okay, we just need to add more"

"fuck, it's heavier than the M16 now"

But at least there's only ever been two G36oids in regards to polymer rifles

And one of them is outright just an en-fish-ened G36

Where designers high on their own supply tried replacing things you really should be using metal for with plastics

Because they forgot about thermal stress and reset along the way or something

But more likely it was just H&K being H&K

Because you suck and they hate you

[tough quail]

also why i actually quite like SR-25s for example, its just that little bit of extra angularness my brain wants

[tough quail]

tbf at least the og G36 is incredibly aesthetic

[junior trench]

Pretty much the only real form factor improvement to be made in regards to the og aluminum AR receiver is replacing the buffer recoil spring with a more conventional one

Because the buffer is a holdover from the AR-10

But even that's a tradeoff because the hilariously overkill buffer means the AR-15 is absurdly soft shooting

Which in turn means you can scale up into most of the hipster calibers between 5.56 and 7.62 without much issue in regards to comfort

If you're looking for major improvements in small arms, ammo is the place to work

In which case I absolutely have to shill polymer cased telescoped

Where you're looking at identical performance to conventional rounds with 30-33% weight and 15-20% size reduction

[tough quail]

also, bonus points for being cool space magic

[manic latch]

Chemical reaction Guns are primitive, but other types are too expensive or heavy

One day Lasgun

[junior trench]

Never

Mf lasguns losing power to dust

The bullet doesn't care until the dust is so coherent you're choking to death on an air-dust-fluid anyway

The laser just gives up

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1699597331283235298

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

USS Wyoming fired more anti-aircraft rounds than any other ship during WWII but never hit an enemy plane. The WWI-era dreadnought stayed in the Chesapeake Bay where it served as a floating gunnery school. It also was used to develop anti-Kamikaze tactics.
#WarshipWednesday

Twitter · Sep 7, 2023, 1:35 AM

[maiden citrus]

cutie

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/USNavy/status/1698780508694478891

U.S. Navy (@USNavy)

Loose lips sink ships 🤐 September kicks off National Insider Threat Awareness Month (NITAM). We are committed to ensure every member of the Navy and Marine Corps are educated on insider risk indicators, bystander engagement and how to report concerns #NITAM #LooseLipsSinksShips

Likes

2118

Retweets

786

Twitter · Sep 4, 2023, 7:30 PM

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

Tfw your surname is Sergeant

[maiden citrus]

lol

[tough quail]

so the f1 driver

[maiden citrus]

you know how weird it would be if horse was a tank driver (farfetched we know)

so it would be the horse armored cavalry and when he arrives there's... no horse, and then a horse gets out of the tank

[strong plank]

Yeah none of this picatinny shit

If you’ve gonna give me a carry handle it better be the tallest carry handle possible

Now this is a carry handle

[tough quail]

the silhouette looks so fucking cool

it looks like a modern f1 car

[tough quail]

this sounds like a twilight zone episode

thats why really early T-34s had that giant superhatch on the rear half of the turret

so a whole ass horse could get out

[maiden citrus]

'you said it was the horse armored calvary, where is the hor-'

[tough quail]

oh im going to get

incredible use out of this

[manic latch]

@tough quail Ural nuclear icebreaker, her class is largest in world

[tough quail]

wide

[cinder escarp]

wow, IRL kansen bra

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

Horse is literally one of the biggest teaboos in this channel mate

[tough quail]

quacken has this weird brain spiral because i admit that

checks notes

my second, if not my favorite MBT is technically kind of shit

[manic latch]

Only Nato MBT with no blow out panels yeah

Ignoring Ariete

But Ariete innocent

[tough quail]

there are

numerous other problems

you could turn the entire hull into a blowout panel and you aren't saving the crew from the Ammo Throne™️

[manic latch]

Yeah main thing between Abrams and Leo 2 is

I think Abrams can take so much more ammo in her panels

While it's limited on Leo2 sometimes forcing hull ammo as necessity

[tough quail]

there are more to tanks than ammo stowage

its a topic so beaten to death i cant be bothered talking about it

[desert agate]

It kinda sucks that a good chunk of the UKs programs over the last 20 odd years have genuinely been pretty bad

[tough quail]

star streaks are fucking based and i will hear no slander

[desert agate]

My subtle underlying Anglophila just hoping that in the end everything will be okay

[tough quail]

remember

if you're mad about the british military eating shit, just scream about thatcher some more

[desert agate]

True

But also

10 years to build a frigate

[tough quail]

yeah

[desert agate]

At least the next type 30 design is looking to be pretty good

[tough quail]

thatcher was like

several stab wounds

the cold war ending was just the ambulance passing them on the street

[maiden citrus]

she was basically an agent

[tough quail]

getting your MIC fisted right before Peace™️ kicks in is

a nasty combo

because now there's no drive to fix it

[desert agate]

i do have some very serious doubts that theyll be able to get the type 80 design theyve been talking about wanting

i was talking to drach about this and it's basically going to need to be bigger than a Kirov if it actually wants to meet the requirements of the type 80 specifications

[tough quail]

which is based

please give me a new big boat to jerk off over

🙏

[desert agate]

i mean yeah

but what money

[tough quail]

crowdfund Bong Kirov™️

i've got like $60 i can spare

[desert agate]

0.000001% of the price

i guess you can buy lunch for 2 of the workers

maybe 3 if they go budget

[tough quail]

it's progress™️

[maiden citrus]

time to do my biggest grilling yet

[tough quail]

anyway CR3s are looking to be pretty decent at least

still really heavy and with a shitty hull but thats like

par the course for the majority of MBTs in the world

and most importantly they still look cool as fuck

i would have razed RM to the fucking ground if they dared to try and fuck up the cr2 silhouette

[desert agate]

and now we wait

[tough quail]

i will also kill anyone who tries to fuck up the ariete silhouete

europe will fear my wrath

[desert agate]

composite slabs are currently inbound to the Ariete's location

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-anime-omg-fire-help-gif-17364430

[manic latch]

Let's gooo

[manic latch]

Worst thing about C3

Every lost C2 means one less C3

[desert agate]

these tanks were mothballed and were never going to be upgraded anyway

[tough quail]

aye

part of why i assume they weren't given TES kits

theirs dont even exist anymore

[desert agate]

chally 1 looks better than chally 2

[cinder escarp]

Every tank can have a blowout panel if you try hard enough

It is funny though, if you go looking through the requirements from Challenger PIP that ended up producing CR2. All of these RHAe estimates and protection goals... and the first CR2 ends up lost to a 6" artillery shell to the roof.

[deep apex]

?

[cinder escarp]

Something will blow out when the ammo detonates. Hatches, weak points...

[desert agate]

any sufficiently powerful explosion will create blowout panels

ersatz blowout

[deep apex]

Damn the joke didn't get you

[strong plank]

So we’ve got chally 3

the leopard successor programs

and now M1E3

How much you wanna bet they couldn’t think of a better name than Abrams so they went “well it’s different but it’ll still be based on the M1”

[cinder escarp]

Eh, the leopard successor programs are actually new vehicles. M1E3 & Chonky 3 aren't.

[strong plank]

don’t get me wrong tho I’m actually pretty excited

[manic latch]

What about MacArthur

No wait...

Honestly Bliss sounds nice

[desert agate]

[strong plank]

the only reason we don’t have a tank named for Schwarzkopf is because the troops wouldn’t be able to pronounce it

Tho now that the marines are divesting of tanks, maybe it has a shot

[desert agate]

just call it stormin normon

that would be a good divisional name now i think of it

[manic latch]

Ok cool name options for next tank

Bliss
Wainwright
Fleet

Orr

Pershing II

[shrewd pecan]

Schwarkopf

[haughty osprey]

General walks into room

"Sergeant, I need you in my office!"

A third+1 of the base looks at him

[autumn sorrel]

Tank named, “Zhukov”

[desert agate]

mate

there are in fact

genuine criticisms of british defence policy that can be made

and people are in fact

allowed to make jokes

[maiden citrus]

the man talks like g3 was manufactured by the dwarves of asgard

[desert agate]

every available opportunity?

its not like the regulars here rage on everything british that has ever been made

the dumb shit gets mocked because its dumb shit

doesnt mean there isnt stuff that isnt dumb

like a majority of it

berci aint here anymore

i will personally wank the tsr-2 until the day i die

sure it had problems but it was cool as shit and i wont pretend it wasnt

but yknow i will criticise the british governments decision to cancel the program because the RAF never again gained the capability it would have provided

not my fault the best decision the MoD has made in years was to put VLS on the type 31s

T31 being an actually reasonable design unlike a certain other RN frigate program

its very difficult to deny that UK defence industry is currently in a state of complete disrepair, to put it lightly, constant bad decisions, defunding of programs and Ajax has put them in a position where they can't even manufacture new artillery tubes
and the only way its ever going to get any better is by criticising the atrocious decisions that got them there and hopefully causing someone to see sense in maintaining a military capable of doing more than just beating Argentina again

[desert agate]

oh keeping the catapult cradles on the QEs was also a great decision, shame its taking so long to decide whether you want to spend the money on actually fitting them or not but yknow

[tough quail]

holy shit this is a lightbulb moment

how have you never seen me and maka argue about british ships in ww1/the interwar quacken

i think maka is the person im closest to on here and we fight like stray dogs over a pile of steaks on that topic

[maiden citrus]

horse hates british stuff so badly that he probably has an essay hidden in his stable about how g3's technology won the space race

also mm, beef, yummy

[strong plank]

Horse has said that he thinks the challenger 2’s cheek armor looks better than the Abrams

So either he’s really committed to the bit or he’s genuine

[tough quail]

i mean that's just facts

cr2s are peak aesthetic

abrams only have a chance of competing if the chonk TES kits arent on

naked chally's look a smidge goofier

[maiden citrus]

I mean going back and searching for our debates I can't believe I was naive enough to at one point say g3 was my second favorite, when after I became more cultured, I became an n3 fan

[tough quail]

my unironic ww1 opinion is that fisher was completely correct in design philosophy and was only really let down by shitty testing practices for the shells and cordite aging

[tough quail]

correct

also

you do not beat this in tank aesthetic

you just lose

[maiden citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-there-is-another-star-wars-jedi-gif-5140031

[tough quail]

...alright im too scared to even argue with this one

also to go even older

[shrewd pecan]

where is the AMX-13 turret?

[tough quail]

god

berlin brigade is the fucking shit

tank liveries never got better

[maiden citrus]

our reality was not ready

[tough quail]

the green tracks are especially threatening for some reason

[maiden citrus]

but yeah even if I din't agree it's 1st place, the man has consistently shilled g3 for like

actual years

[tough quail]

its great

based

love it

i r8 8/8

most of my favorite girls in AL are british and I run damn near everything with either a british and a french fleet or two brit fleets

my favorite ship period is warspite

vulcans are at minimum my third favorite strat bomber

i think im the only man alive that tries to argue that chieftains were relatively good in the 60s-70s

i spent like

an entire month

screaming at berci louder than anyone else

[maiden citrus]

berci was def a thing

[shrewd pecan]

chieftain good in wargame

must be good in real life

[tough quail]

real facts

[maiden citrus]

memories flowing back of how dumb every thing he said was

the type of person that takes a maybe valid argument and runs with it so far it's so nonsensical you can't help but be amazed at the stupidity

[tough quail]

towns are easily my favorite CLs of the war, i spent like a solid hour yesterday telling people on the VB server they were wrong and stupid and that 1940s british BB superstructure is the shit

i have talked

so much

about how cool N5s are

[shrewd pecan]

chieftain was probably my favorite mid coldwar tank

[tough quail]

or the sextuple bofors

[shrewd pecan]

before the M60A3 grew on me due to gunner heat PC

[tough quail]

look at this chad

love em

[maiden citrus]

even I have british stuff I like a ton

[tough quail]

oh yeah i never shut the fuck up about how much i love lewis guns too

and how i desperately want to buy a demil'd one

[maiden citrus]

like I'm not even that good of an example

but I love the R class to bits

[desert agate]

tbf if the brits built standards, theyd just be Rs

[maiden citrus]

YOU GET IT

[tough quail]

yeah true

[maiden citrus]

they began walking the path

they're incredibly aesthetic

[tough quail]

i am obviously a spitfire wanker and i think that's such a correct opinion it isn't even worth pointing out

[maiden citrus]

like, your honor, I present exhibit a

[desert agate]

merlin my beloved

[tough quail]

oh

and i constantly shit on ford for all their racing success actually being stolen valor from the british

[spring briar]

I love the R’s

[tough quail]

sorry you can't fool me i know that's a lola

[spring briar]

Much much more than the QE’s

[maiden citrus]

the correct path

[tough quail]

what are my other esoteric british wanks im forgetting, hmm

[grave ravine]

Cosworth's epic indycar engines?

[spring briar]

British muzzleloading rifles

[tough quail]

cosworth is also another good case of attempted ford stolen valor

where they tried to take credit for them basically owning F1 for aeons

[desert agate]

SMLE my beloved

[tough quail]

and then eventually came out to talk about how ford basically contributed nothing

i really want an SMLE too, yeah

[desert agate]

controversial opinion but lee enfield > springfield

[grave ravine]

Though to be fair Lola was a failing company before Ford bought the car to make gt-40

[tough quail]

thats a correct opinion

based entirely on the fact that springfield sights suck in enlisted

and make me want to die

[somber knoll]

breh

[spring briar]

Thats a breechloader

[somber knoll]

AWSM my beloved

[tough quail]

ye i know

[maiden citrus]

I bite my tongue to be supportive

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/farthyun-horse-mad-gif-19015168

[maiden citrus]

better yet I bite hot dog

[tough quail]

spingfields are good

its just their sights are really wonky in enlisted

[somber knoll]

Craig Harrison is such a giga chad that he didn't bother to use .50 cal for record sniping

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

not even in other games

cant get my brain to line up with it

[somber knoll]

instead went with .338 LM

[desert agate]

accuracy internationals arctic warfare is like, the best sniper rifle ever made too

[spring briar]

You all disappoint me

[tough quail]

also people who try to shit on the british because it was built in a shed are losers

[spring briar]

Not even a mention of the Martini Henry

[tough quail]

you wish your random assholes made guns this good

[desert agate]

i too hate elephants

[spring briar]

Random take

[maiden citrus]

I am neutral to elephants

and friends of horses

[spring briar]

Would be better if you said “I too hate Zulu”

[tough quail]

:)

[remote monolith]

Perissodactyl moment

[desert agate]

i have zulu friends for i cant say that

[tough quail]

also im counting mclaren as british enough because commonwealth and mclaren automotive is based in britain actual

pretty good

also carried ford in le mans

[spring briar]

But elephants are fair game?

[tough quail]

built arguably the objective best performance car ever made

[desert agate]

elephants cant take away my biltong

[spring briar]

If we want to wank British stuff
Why not wank Isembard kingdom Brunel

[remote monolith]

also Maka https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-02757-5

[maiden citrus]

oh

boy

[tough quail]

mmm mmyaes f1

[remote monolith]

The creature had oddly lanky legs and might have lacked the ability to fly. It also doesn't seem to conform to the accepted bird-evolution story.

Although dinosaurs were largely extinct by 66 million years ago, therapods, the three-clawed, hollow-boned group that included Velociraptor and Tyrannosaurus rex, had started to evolve into today’s birds. Many palaeontologists consider the first bird to be a 150-million-year-old feathered dinosaur called Archaeopteryx, fossils of which were found in Germany. But this study adds to mounting evidence that by the time of Archaeopteryx, dinosaurs had already diversified into different kinds of birds, Loewen says.

[maiden citrus]

whenever I see archaeopteryx in a sentence I know it's gonna be loaded

[remote monolith]

yeah when it involves the archetypal bird dinosaur it tends to be interest piqueing

bird like adaptations for a non-flying environment that early is quite something

[tough quail]

riiiiiiiight how the fuck did i forget

two things i never ever talk about

[remote monolith]

also great example of clickbaiting, mentioning the rex when the fossil discovered was of Abelisaurid https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/r1nfpxzch

honestly would have been interesting if a Tyrannosaurid somehow made it this far south, but alas

[maiden citrus]

experts find remains of unknown Canine mammal fossil

(it's a cat actually)

[remote monolith]

experts finds a surprising, million years old of a human-like creature in Africa

post image of Australopithecus

[desert agate]

sea fury was the best post-war prop fighter too

was so good they still use it in air races today

[autumn sorrel]

Ugh

Why the little fuck look so cute

[spring briar]

Because he wants to talk about black powder rifles when most here don’t

[autumn sorrel]

Hate to say it but Brown Bess > Charleville

[spring briar]

Haha

Wrong but ok

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, you mean "rifle"

Then Enfield

I love Enfield

[proud saddle]

Thanks for the help earlier. The Akagi model is now finished (more or less), any big mistakes?

Certified by azur lane history buffs as being Historically Accurate™ (mostly)?

[spring briar]

Which model

[autumn sorrel]

'53

[spring briar]

Nice nice

Fan of the Pritchet?

[eternal veldt]

Looks fairly decent. Good show.

[autumn sorrel]

Yep

[proud saddle]

Thanks. I skipped some of the smallest parts and the colors aren't exactly accurate but it looks good enough

[frozen kestrel]

Quick question: On the invenio bundesarchive, where would I find the blueprints for some of the other German vehicles (tanks and aircraft)?

[warm finch]

Honestly, as a person who also makes models. How the fuck are you this good? Most of my shit looks like it was made in MS paint!

[alpine onyx]

Same way you'd find the ships, you don't go for Kriegsmarine and Kaiserliche Marine, but for Luftwaffe/Heer

https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/06246394-f7b6-4a3f-9d92-21baa28694f2/

This link sends you to the list of plane construction, operation and maintenance instructions. Unfortunately, nothing digitized

[spring briar]

Good

Now explain why brown bess is “better” than Charleville

[autumn sorrel]

India pattern and Sea service pattern

I have a bias toward the period Royal Navy and Royal Marine

[alpine onyx]

https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/662fba40-680f-4845-867c-dba3ba9ca5c7/

some stuff around for tanks

not properly organized, so you'll need to invest some time to find it

smol, a Pz I with a kinda Pz II turret

[cunning salmon]

It's not even in the center of it

[eternal veldt]

thinning your paints and using the correct techniques help a lot.

[cunning salmon]

The turret

I mean I just started building my first model

[eternal veldt]

most tank turrets aren't actually aligned to the centre of the tank.

[cunning salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[eternal veldt]

this applies to the modern day Leopard 2 as well, I believe.

[cunning salmon]

I guess it's to compensate for the gun port view (?)

[eternal veldt]

more space for the commander, I think.

[alpine onyx]

Abrams turret has an asymmetrical faceplate

You're welcome

[desert agate]

Abrams roadwheels are asymmetrical too

Actually all tanks with torsion bars

But abrams is the topic

[alpine onyx]

If someone be complaining about asymmetric tanks

I deliver asymmetric

Embrace the chaos!

[proud saddle]

I applied a thin coat of black wash on top of the flight deck to give it more of a weathered look. It's 'nuln oil' water-based acrylic paint from Citadel if you want the specific brand. I also used a matte top-coat spray can for the finish

doesn't show well on camera

if you have some questions I can try to help out

what are you building?

I do have a bit of background with gunpla and warhammer but relatively new to military kits

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/fujimi-46051-akagi--1182459 this is the kit I built

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/RyszardJonski/status/1699699742458962266

Junsupreme (@RyszardJonski)

Screenshot from the Hyundai Rotem video presented at MSPO 2023.
K2 tank is equipped , among others with the hard kill APS Trophy HV , RCWS and an electronic drone jammer.
📸Mariusz Cielma/Dziennik Zbrojny

Likes

244

Twitter · Sep 7, 2023, 8:22 AM

https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1699732092236828954

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

The US Army also proposed a new Abrams modernization program in 2009, called the M1E3 Abrams Evolutionary Design (AED). M1E3 AED utilizes the canceled FCS elements to upgrade platform, such as XM360 lightweight gun, Active Protection System, EOIR Mast-Mounted Sight and PS-MRS.

Likes

303

Twitter · Sep 7, 2023, 10:31 AM

[warm finch]

Oh I build plane models, I know how to make them better but don't have the money lol

[proud saddle]

yet to build a model plane but I have a 1:35 sherman from tamiya painted

[spring briar]

P53?

Or brown bess?

[warm finch]

Based

Personally prefer 1:72 since it's harder to notice small mistakes lol

[proud saddle]

I might build a 1:72 Focke-Wulf Fw 190 in the future

Tamiya M4A3E8 Sherman (1:35)
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-35346-m4a3e8-sherman-easy-eight--959297

[spring briar]

@autumn sorrel you like the baker?

[runic ermine]

Sorry I was trying to note something historical not start a political argument

[strong plank]

man

[runic ermine]

What?

[strong plank]

I found someone's thesis from 1997 talking about TFX and JSF

and it had this bit to say

what could have been

[frozen kestrel]

I'll keep this in mind when I model Megatron

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1699520042507927731

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

With the war over and his job done, Admiral John S. McCain Sr. returned to his home in California and died #OTD in 1945, just four days after witnessing the Japanese surrender ceremony aboard USS Missouri in Tokyo Bay.

Likes

767

Retweets

109

Twitter · Sep 6, 2023, 8:28 PM

[manic latch]

[autumn sorrel]

Brown Bess sea pattern

[autumn sorrel]

Not really, I am more toward long rifle, not short rifle

[desert agate]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/07/australian-war-memorial-installs-new-plaque-acknowledging-ben-roberts-smith-complicit-in-unlawful-killings

[warm finch]

Inshallah the Iranians would stand no chance

[worn ember]

sorry if my question is kinda weird but

how many retrofits did akagi have exactly

without her conversion into an aircraft carrier being counted

[somber knoll]

at least twice

[somber knoll]

the first one is the major rebuild from 1935-1938 then the second one being a short refit right before Midway

[worn ember]

so

her art is based on the 38 design

it always confused me with the lines

[desert agate]

retrofit is more or less an in game term and wasnt used much for ships beyond specific instances

ships regularly went into various refits of differing scale and the like

Akagi had her one big one but also had a number of smaller ones as her armament was changed, various new systems added or removed and even just regular drydockings to have her hull cleaned

some examples of Akagis refits

and yes her art is intended to represent her after her 1938 rebuild

[worn ember]

So a retrofit in game isn't that crazy of a idea

That's cool

[subtle prawn]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/poland-eyeing-f-15ex-buy-amid-weapons-buying-spree

https://theaviationist.com/2023/09/08/poland-eyeing-e-2-procurement/

[grave ravine]

It's a Boeing press release so it could mean a lot of nothing

[tough quail]

but its also poland

and they are stupid enough to go for it

[strong plank]

Dunno how that’d be a stupid move

Only problem with the F-15EX is the price tag

[remote monolith]

and the sex jokes I imagine

[tough quail]

good plane, but im referring to the stupidity of

A D D I N G E V E N M O R E L O G I S T I C S

[desert agate]

F-15EX fails because, fundamentally, it's a 4th gen plane in a 5th gen (soon to be 6th) world

[shrewd pecan]

the 96 apaches

• F-15EX

Poland carrying Europe's defense modernization while Germany stumbles and Belgium remains smoking crack in a back alley

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/longshot-air-to-air-combat-drone-bid-won-by-general-atomics

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/mason_8718/status/1700091812533490079

ハク Mason (@mason_8718)

Budget cut!
South Korea has released 2024 defense budget list but, there is no carrier related categories.
It seems current government is more focus on frigates, destroyers and special purpose missile cruisers(Arsenal ship).
<Heavily budgeted list Naval>
FFG-III, FFX-IV
KDX-III…

Likes

187

Twitter · Sep 8, 2023, 10:20 AM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1700207822083129537

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

North Korea announced Friday that it has launched a “tactical nuclear attack submarine" capable of "both preemptive and retaliatory strikes." Analysts believe the Hero Kim Kun Ok is a modified Soviet-era Romeo-class sub that lacks the capabilities North Korea is claiming.

Twitter · Sep 8, 2023, 6:01 PM

[shrewd pecan]

I mean its either

depend on defense partners that are a oceans away or proven unreliable when it comes to adequately funding/modernizing their armed forces

or actually step up to the plate when it comes to dealing one of Europe's largest security challenges since the cold war

[strong plank]

I didn’t have ‘Poland as a military superpower’ on my 2020s bingo but I’m not complaining

[dusty kraken]

Dear god Poland's power level is still going

[shrewd pecan]

pretty much all of Eastern Europe is racing to expand/modernize their armed forces

Romania is making major modernizations

as are the Baltic States

https://vxtwitter.com/i/status/1700102251300131052

[manic latch]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2023/09/08/uss-milwaukee-decommissioned-as-the-navy-scuttles-its-littoral-fleet/70793722007/

Murm III noooo

[manic latch]

I think Poland is doing uhh

"Gf with your credit card on shopping" thingy

Buying everything possible

[tough quail]

you know these things suck but they still look dope

[manic latch]

Now how much budget they will spend for the maintaince of all these vehicle no clue

Because it will keep getting higher more things they buy

[tough quail]

they look like a miami vice speedboat plugged into, like

cp77

[shrewd pecan]

the expectation is the Polish economy will keep growing

so essentially they grow into the budget as the equipment arrives

[tough quail]

that sounds very foolproof

and not at all hubris

[manic latch]

Just saying it didn't go well for Soviets

[shrewd pecan]

considering their current budget

there armed forces are likely gonna be roughly equivalent to South Korea

in terms of size and budget

so its not really unrealistic to pull off

of course there sacrifcing other things the additional defense spending could go towards

though they're dealing with significant security challenges and commitments

[dusty kraken]

Poland going through a massive training arc for several years only for their biggest security threat crippled and on life support

[shrewd pecan]

their security threat's ability to regenerate their armed forces in the coming decades is yet to be seen

though I would argue preparedness is a better idea over assuming a threat is weakened/destroyed and doesn't have to be worried about

[manic latch]

What

[tough quail]

do not the it

[tough quail]

this looks like some optical illusion shit at this angle

[manic latch]

"Red army lost badly at Finland, defeating them will be easy"

-Adolf

"US army lost Vietnam, their next war will be bad performing as well"

[tough quail]

an attempt was made

[shrewd pecan]

I will leave it there when it comes to my comments

[manic latch]

Anyway, updates on Kurgantez @tough quail

[shrewd pecan]

sorry Kremlin this is a BMP-3M Dragun neighborhood

get thaat Kurganetz out of here

[manic latch]

Work on the BMP "Kurganets-25" continues, the vehicle received a new configuration, such requirements were put forward by the customer - the Ministry of Defense. Basically, the changes affected the chassis, it became more reliable, while operation and maintenance were simplified. The resulting car is different from those samples that were shown in 2015. There is no information yet whether the weapons will be replaced, but the opinion has been repeatedly expressed earlier that the 30-mm automatic gun for such a machine is too weak and needs to be replaced with a larger caliber (likely 57mm). Also, the too large dimensions of the new BMP were criticized a lot.The Russian army will not soon receive a new infantry fighting vehicle being developed on the Kurganets-25 platform; work on it has not yet been completed. According to Roman Khromov, deputy executive director for state defense defense and military-technical cooperation at Kurganmashzavod, the new model of the infantry fighting vehicle differs significantly from the one shown earlier.

[shrewd pecan]

good

[manic latch]

So it will look different than this version

I assume smaller body and 57mm gun of 2S38

[shrewd pecan]

CAN'T WAIT FOR THEM TO NEVER PROCURE IT

personally I don't even think its a matter of Russsia being able to actually produce the vehicles

the manufactor for the armata series vehicles is just awful man

[tough quail]

didn't they can it and swap back to the dragun like four months ago

(as they should have)

[manic latch]

Problem of Dragun is uhh

Its less future proof

You are using existing hull again

[tough quail]

massively rehauled and already done pretty much

while doing more or less the exact same thing

[manic latch]

True I guess

Cheaper for sure

[tough quail]

its not like it was a super heavy platform or anything anyway

[manic latch]

Tho it's a platform that goes back to 70s

[shrewd pecan]

the manufactor is able to actually deliver on their commitments is honestly the big pro with the Dragun

[manic latch]

Yeah

PJSC Kurganmashzavod of the High-Precision Complexes holding company sent the Russian Ministry of Defense another batch of new BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles, as well as BMP-3 after a major overhaul.

Over the eight months of this year, Kurganmashzavod, including the Volgograd site, has already exceeded the annual volume of 2022 in the production of combat vehicles by 120%.

Each BMP-3 unit must include additional protection kits (ADS) - these are grilles and armored screens. Today they are produced 30 times more than last year. In addition to completing production vehicles, KDZ is supplied to the main customer as a separate product within the framework of the State Defense Order

This is the latest BMP-3 batch

Yeah I believe they can produce Dragun easily

[tough quail]

its very ship of theseus anyway

its an enormous overhaul and IFVs aren't really as overloaded as 80s era MBTs are anyway

[manic latch]

See Burke would be good example. Burke Flight 3 is literally max level she can go

There is literally no more room left for any upgrade in Fligt III

She is ship of theseus level upgraded but said ship has tonnage limit

While if it was a new platform. Flight III wouldn't have existed

[shrewd pecan]

BMP-3 was never really that heavy of a vehicle

the hull has always seem like it had plenty of growth room

[manic latch]

Yeah Soviets preferred light. For trains and bridges and amphibious etc

[shrewd pecan]

generally dropping the amphibious requirements would probably give it plenty more growth room

[manic latch]

While Bradley decided to remove amphibious requirement during design stage ye

[tough quail]

the caged one

release him

[shrewd pecan]

its lighter weight is also why I think the BMDs alongside the air dropabiltiy requirements should just be swapped for airmobile BMP-3s

[manic latch]

Fren

[tough quail]

slat gang

[manic latch]

Sometimes I wonder

If Soviet had C-17

Would it fix BMP armor alot

[shrewd pecan]

they have

equivalents to it

[manic latch]

Il-76 can't carry much as

An-124 perhaps

[shrewd pecan]

BMD also was never really that much lighter than its standard IFV equivalents

[manic latch]

Like I wonder why Soviet thought it's fine to ignore armor on early stuff of these vehicles

BMP-1, BTR, BMD

[shrewd pecan]

BMP-1 and BTR is honestly fine considering their role/era

BMD-1 wasn't honestly that much more badly armored than the BMP-1

[tough quail]

western stuff also had to be more heavily armored in this era

because 14.5mm

existed

[manic latch]

But Nato had 12.7mm still

[tough quail]

soviet HMGs having about double the muzzle energy compared to NATO ones ended up being a major factor in ifv/apc design

[desert agate]

and bmps die to .50cal

[manic latch]

The Soviet military leadership saw any future wars as being conducted with nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. A new design, like the BMP, combining the properties of an armored personnel carrier (APC) and a light tank would allow infantry to operate from the relative safety of its armoured, radiation-shielded interior in contaminated areas and to fight alongside it in uncontaminated areas. It would increase infantry squad mobility, provide fire support to them, and also be able to fight alongside main battle tanks.

Hmm

The requirement for the BMP, which was first drawn up in the late 1950s, stressed speed, good armament, and the ability for all squad members to fire from within the vehicle. The armament had to provide direct support for dismounted infantry in the attack and defense, and to be able to destroy comparable light armored vehicles.

The vehicle needed to protect the crew from .50 cal machinegun fire and 20–23 mm caliber autocannons across the frontal arc, as well as from light shell fragments at distances between 500 m and 800

Maybe problem was "just frontal arc"

[desert agate]

gotta put your limits somewhere

[manic latch]

Make a larger vehicle will all around 50 cal

[desert agate]

money doesnt just come out of khrushchevs ass

[manic latch]

Stryker is like this right

Stryker has all around armor for 50 cal

[desert agate]

especially when he has guns to replace with missiles

[tough quail]

no cornman no

[dusty kraken]

When they say radiation shielded how well is it protected from radiation exactly

[manic latch]

Existing APCs offered little or no protection from either nuclear or chemical weapons, as they were either open-topped or could not be sealed sufficiently. Furthermore, the infantry had to disembark to be able to use their weapons.[

Thus the gun holes in Bmp

@tough quail I think this is the coolest device Soviets had

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand

Even if you manage to nuke Moscow and kill every high ordering individuals

Dead Hand makes sure nukes will be launched still as response

[tough quail]

manmade horrors beyond my comprehension

[manic latch]

Upon activation and determination of the happening of a nuclear war, the system sends out a 15P011 command missile with a special 15B99 warhead that passes commands to open all silos and all command centers of the RVSN with appropriate receivers in flight. The command missile system is similar to the US Emergency Rocket Communications System.

[dusty kraken]

I love mutually assured destruction

[tough quail]

imagine being the poor city that gets hit by a SS-17

you couldn't get hit by a satan, no no

you had to get spanker

as insult to nuclear injury

[manic latch]

He saw horrors

[tough quail]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MR-UR-100_Sotka

whose idea was this

[manic latch]

Based Spanker

[tough quail]

is it the same guy that picked flogger for mig-23s

is that just his fetish

[manic latch]

Nato HQ: "Paris was hit by a spanker"

[shrewd pecan]

man my halo rocket launcher is looking a little weird

[dusty kraken]

That's literally a medieval tower painted in camo why would they do this

[tough quail]

soviet trickery

[manic latch]

RS-28 Sarmat ICBM (Satan II unofficially)

The Sarmat is a three-stage, liquid-fueled missile with a range of 18,000 km and a launch weight of 208.1 metric tons.The missile is 35.3 meters long and 3 meters in diameter.
The RS-28 Sarmat is capable of carrying 10 tonnes of payload, of ten 750 kiloton  or 15 lighter MIRV warheads, and up to 24 Avangard hypersonic glide vehicles (HGVs) or a combination of warheads and several countermeasures against anti-ballistic missile systems

Tho it's weight and size forced it to be silo missile only. Unless you build a super Typhoon

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

[spring briar]

buck an ball highly underrated

[manic latch]

US Amphibious ship defense training

[spring briar]

Training is good

[thorny patio]

Wanna point out that CVN-65 "Enty" shall soon join her ancestors

We need fanart STAT

[zealous vine]

How large is a 180mm APFSDS shell??

Cause frankly the 140 (CATTB / ATAC) looks nearly twice as tall as a 120

[shrewd pecan]

if I recall

there were 16 inch sabot rounds intended for the Iowa's

[zealous vine]

This game has an option to mount a 183mm cannon with APFSDS, I'm.. doubtful if the barrel should even be this short

[zealous vine]

What the fuck

I mean like, ik Sabot rounds aren't ideal for naval..

[shrewd pecan]

"USNFSA Concept (Proposed)
Advanced Gun Weapon Systems Technology Program 16/11-Inch Long Range GPS Concept with Sabot. This concept was developed by the United States Naval Fire Support Association (USNFSA). The proposal envisioned an 11 inch (28 cm) sub-caliber cargo projectile utilizing a sabot to fit into the 16"/50 (40.6 cm) gun barrel. A sketch of this projectile may be seen below. This projectile did not become an official development program, but the Navy did develop their own sub-caliber cargo round, the HE-ER Mark 148 described above. The following data for the Concept is courtesy of USNFSA:"

[zealous vine]

Whats usually the diameter ratio of the penetrator and sabot?

[shrewd pecan]

these aren't the sabots but I'm putting this here anyways since proposed Iowa replacement rounds

[zealous vine]

Amazing

[zealous vine]

How large is the original Sabot round or, if it wasn't displayed, the HE-ER round compared to the 140 here?

[frozen kestrel]

I'm sorry... fucking WHAT now?

[shrewd pecan]

extended range guided sabot round as a shell replacement for the Iowas during the 90s

[frozen kestrel]

As if we needed to yeet two thousand pounds of depleted uranium at our enemies

[shrewd pecan]

they aren’t exactly a dart

the round basically was a 11 inch sabot with submunitions within them

[shrewd pecan]

In terms of APFSDS darts it depends on the round

They change length a lot with newer rounds having extremely long darts

[zealous vine]

I see, more propellant?

[zealous vine]

I just realized, why's the propellant in cylinders rather than powder form, wouldn't that be more consistent in volume?

[shrewd pecan]

no idea probably safety reasons

There probably a reason out there I just don’t know from the top of my head

[manic latch]

Yo @spring briar was it Izmail whom had sabot like shells for 356mms

Oh yeah

Izmail had Ultra Long range shell project

Boring out a 368mm for it to use 203mm shells?

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1700282236040368506

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1923, the U.S. Navy suffered its worst peacetime loss when 7 destroyers ran aground at Honda Point, CA. Navigational errors, heavy fog and the squadron commander's order for all ships to remain in close formation led to the disaster.

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 8, 2023, 10:57 PM

[maiden citrus]

my poor clemson babies

[manic latch]

Ok so briefly

Bradley's original armor: designed against 14.5mm all around, because BTRs had 14.5mm

Later change, made it strong against 30mm AP shell of BMP

With RA gear: made it strong against 30mm APDS + common RPG

[autumn sorrel]

Red video?

[manic latch]

Yeah

[autumn sorrel]

Bradley without a doubt is better than BMP2

Man, I wish for a IFV that can actually combine both BMP3 and Bradley

Oh wait, Korean did have one

K21 with sexy 40mm Bofors

[cinder escarp]

It is more like, 14.5mm frontally and 12.7mm on the sides.

For the OG.

The applique kit was designed around 3UBR6 30mm AP being the threat (a real sad round mind you), and the BRAT tiles are purely against chemical weapons - they offer basically zero protection boost to a KE threat.

[grave ravine]

The 40mm is dubious as an IFV cannon

a 30mm or 35mm bushmaster is a much more useful gun most of the time, and you will be able to carry more ammo

[cinder escarp]

The setup the K21 has is very slick, fully automated reloading from an extensive under-turret reserve carousel.

Also, amusingly the 40mm has a higher RoF than the slow-ass Bushmasters.

[autumn sorrel]

Ugh, but bofors...

Wait, did Pig have a melt down over CR2 get knock out?

Someone said he have a melt down on twitter

[cinder escarp]

He did and it was funni

[autumn sorrel]

How funny?

[manic latch]

It was by a Molotov

How?

Crew carries Vodka

Vodka doesn't burn like that

Ummm, my source told me

[autumn sorrel]

He really said that? What?

Like even with basic knowledge, it laughable easy to debunk that claim

[manic latch]

It's Pig

Hell let me DM

[autumn sorrel]

OMG, Pig thought Molotov was Vodka based

[jagged monolith]

Very nearly

But not quite

The most crucial component the automated Carousel is missing so the carousel is just there

[autumn sorrel]

Austrio, long time no see

[jagged monolith]

And they have to be loaded into the pump machine

This is still 48 Reserve rounds mind you

Anyway the bodo league massacres are absolutely hilarious

[manic latch]

Based Austrio

[jagged monolith]

During the 6:25 War there was a massive communist hunt

Many groups were labeled Communists including actual Communists

[autumn sorrel]

I am about to object but then I remember how complete nutjob Korean Communist are

[jagged monolith]

However a certain group which was the bodo League was also labeled communist

Which is funny because the Bodo League was

Explicitly and very openly an anti-communist organization

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, South Korean pres at the time is really compete hard for the "nutjob" title

[jagged monolith]

Members of The League were hunted down and killed but also many tens of thousands of innocent people who had nothing to do with the league or communism

[autumn sorrel]

Didn't Rhee gave his brother in law or someone fund to raise militia but they pocketed like all of it?

[manic latch]

What made communism so paranoid among countries was the domino effect theory

Like a flu it spreading around

[autumn sorrel]

For everything Eisenhower did, championed Domino Effect was the worst

For that theory alone that push entire region and country into decades of war

[jagged monolith]

I mean communism was an actual problem

In the background of the 625 War it was evident that communist sympathizers would readily collaborate with North Kore

But what makes the bodo League massacres unacceptable was that it didn't actually go after Communists it went after anti Communists

[autumn sorrel]

You mean, everyone who Rhee think as his enemy

[jagged monolith]

And it couldn't even do that properly because it killed well over 50,000 innocent people who had nothing to do with the league or communism

[subtle prawn]

The CV90 uses it as its autocannon, no?

[grave ravine]

Swedish ones, though all exports have been with either the 30 or 35mm bushmaster

[autumn sorrel]

Only Wehrboo are affected

[eternal veldt]

Broke: nerding out on the technical specifications

Woke: understanding the general context why it led to that specific specifications, and the consequences of such specifications

Bespoke: Ignore the equipment, go straight to the humans

[ornate wind]

More paper for this event I guess

[deep apex]

Not really

Natori is a real ship

And so is Hatsuzuki

[ornate wind]

Where did “Unzen” come from?

[blazing crow]

this is from a published book.

The "Unzen-class" was supposed to have been the largest, most advanced, and most heavily-armed of Japan's heavy cruisers