history

[strong plank]

an army man and a marine are both peeing off a bridge

the army man says to the marine, “man, the water sure is cold today huh”

the marine nods and says “yeah, pretty deep too”

[autumn sorrel]

So that’s why the bunny theme

[somber knoll]

There was also the 2013 twilight event where they put on actual Playmates on board

[remote monolith]

https://www.sci.news/paleontology/mambachiton-fiandohana-12130.html

interesting, bird ancestors with osteoderms

[thorn trail]

BIG

chonkers

Wait which Standard is this?

California?

[somber knoll]

BB-43? So Tennessee. Missed a number

[thorn trail]

Oh I didn't see the number on the side

[random trench]

You know what still has me cackling

A US ship hit an Iranian mine and in response the US sunk have of irans navy

[autumn sorrel]

It send the message

[random trench]

Reagan era US military was just

Interesting MMFAO

[manic latch]

Must be a very hard duty

Herculean task

[manic latch]

This likely also caused the shooting down of Air Flight 655 by USS Vincennes so don't see the humour

[subtle prawn]

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/07/26/lithuania-picks-leopard-2-tank-over-abrams-black-panther/

[subtle prawn]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-change-in-rollout-for-challenger-3-tanks-says-mod/

https://twitter.com/DefenceAust/status/1684458605695717376

Defence Australia (@DefenceAust)

The @AustralianArmy will receive 129 new infantry fighting vehicles in response to Australia’s changing strategic environment. 😎 These will be built in Geelong, supporting development of sovereign manufacturing capabilities. 💪➡️ https://t.co/Yv4mikBsBf

#YourADF #AusArmy

Likes

186

Twitter · Jul 27, 2023, 7:00 AM

[zealous gull]

Good choice

Huge for Geelong too, used to live there and the town is not in a good state with almost all the manufacturing and jobs gone in a short period of time, hopefully this is a positive step for it

[old lily]

Nevada :

• Bombarding Iwo Jima
• After Pearl Harbour Attack
• Bombarding Normandy
• Defending Pearl harbour
• Torpedo Damage
• Nevada on Puget Navy Yard, 1942

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

[solid mango]

[manic latch]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/BAESystemsInc/status/1684218310085292032

BAE Systems, Inc. (@BAESystemsInc)

Open-ocean amphibious capability ✔️
30mm Turret ✔️
Increased lethality ✔️
MRAP + Survivability ✔️

The Amphibious Combat Vehicle 30mm cannon variant equips @usmarines with direct fire capability and increased lethality to defeat current and future threats.

Likes

145

Twitter · Jul 26, 2023, 3:05 PM

[random trench]

The idea of not even losing a man, simply running into a mine, and then blowing up half of someone’s navy because you’re pissed is funny

[warm finch]

After a cursory glance at the incident, I blame the captain. He went into Iranian territorial waters and then opened fire at them while withholding crucial information from command. So it wasn´t really sinking half of Irans navy that caused the shootdown.

Also he was told it was an F-14 so, wouldn´t you give the order when you´re already under fire?

[random trench]

idk

i still think sinking half of irans navy is funny

[warm finch]

Oh it is it's just not the reason behind the shootdown

[random trench]

yurd

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1684616709456420875

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Today is #NationalNewJerseyDay! USS New Jersey (BB-62) is the most decorated battleship is U.S. Navy history, earning 19 battle stars for service in WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, Lebanese Civil War and the Persian Gulf. "The Big J" is now a museum in Camden.

Likes

216

Twitter · Jul 27, 2023, 5:28 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1684583361275203584

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1972, the F-15 Eagle flew for the first time. The Navy once considered developing the F-15N Sea Eagle as a faster, lighter and cheaper alternative to the F-14. However, modifying the F-15 with folding wings and stronger landing gear for carriers negated its advantages.

Twitter · Jul 27, 2023, 3:15 PM

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/what-new-ec-37-electronic-warfare-jets-will-actually-be-able-to-do

[manic latch]

Ugly

[warm finch]

Idk just looks like some slightly modified private jet

[manic latch]

APS on North Korean M-2020 Mbt

[strong plank]

That’s exactly what it is

What’s funny is that the specific jet isn’t made anymore so they have to be procured secondhand for conversion

[manic latch]

"Efficiency 101"

[strong plank]

It’s actually less expensive than new production

[junior trench]

I'm not sure there's even an incoming projectile in that APS shot lmao

camera is able to capture the movement of the projectile at its fastest right from the launcher

but there's not even a pixel sign of it in the APS shot

shades of the ChiCom tank stabilizer demos where the water inside the water bottle is a solid object

[strong plank]

impossible, I was reliably informed that Kim il Sung himself invented the idea of hard kill APS

[warm finch]

Hey it´s cheaper than restarting the production line. They´ll probably stop when the other guy does

[manic latch]

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/northrop-bows-out-of-ngad-fighter-competition/154324.article

[maiden citrus]

cuties

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/07/27/republicans-call-for-white-house-shipbuilding-boost-to-support-aukus-attack-sub-sale

[deep apex]

Inconceivably rare W

[manic latch]

It's a deal heavily on US's influence interest

I would have supported it if I was a patriot

Tho issue comes from more of

"Should I keep these for my own navy or give it to them"

[deep apex]

Considering if we're gonna want to spend less on our military and have our allies actually be able to stand on their own, it's a good idea

[warm finch]

Whole thing with the F-35 and other joint-X programs is for everyone to collectively get as much as the US would have gotten of the last generation of equipment. Saves costs and makes the defense much more consolidated.

[random trench]

Defence spending has always been a bit of an interesting point of contention

Especially the last bill which only narrowly passed because of compromises

And the biggest problem nowadays is the politicisation of the military (which should never happen)

The US defence spending is so high because it’s Allies don’t spend enough (I’d argue) on their own defence

What also contributes to US defence spending is it’s overall modern military philosophy of power projection and being able to strike anywhere on the globe within 24hrs of first contact

[zealous gull]

Spotted these two while on a boat today, didn’t realise ship camouflage was a thing again??? Has some ww2 era vibes.

[eternal veldt]

Dazzle pattern's a classic.

Realistically, the argument can be made that these smaller ships operate closer to the shore - thus a dazzle does break up a ship's silhouette and bearing movement against land based targets- though in the age of radar and aircraft...

[shrewd pecan]

these vessels are usually meant for use against less sophisticated targets

so the pattern can make a difference when it comes to dealing with civilian observers or spotters

[remote monolith]

I HATE AI GENERATED ARTICLES I HATE AI GENERATED ARTICLES

[eternal veldt]

Dinosaurs with rolled homogenous armour

👍

[spiral cedar]

Harveyized

[remote monolith]

There's so many wrong things here like

AN archosaur? Dinosaurs ARE Archosaurs

Literqlly everything considered birds or crocodiles are Archosaurs

And there's the matter of osteoderms not even being that common in Dinosauria, with only select genera having them, mostly in Thyreopora and Sauropodomorpha

[strong plank]

We’re not going to be spending less

[eternal veldt]

coming to your local content farm soon: Dinosaur discovered to be dead from spalling, not a meteorite hit

[strong plank]

Interesting

So it’ll probably be between Lockheed and Boeing

What’ll be interesting is that unlike the JSF program, the Air Force is doing separate contracts for the design and for production

so one of the things that hurt Boeing (lack of confidence that they could deliver the aircraft in quantity) should hold less weight this time

[somber knoll]

or they are playing the long game and may submit a carrier-borne 6th gen instead.

Man I wish

[strong plank]

They didn’t rule out participation in the F/A-XX

So it’s possible

[somber knoll]

Attack Tomcat lesgooo

[maiden citrus]

new creature called bird sheds light on how finches developed wings

[desert agate]

goddamn TS23 is looking cool

sucks that im not able to watch any of it

Townsville is getting a free airshow every day rn

[grave ravine]

Grumman is returning to its roots and focusing on the navy fighter

[grave ravine]

Dazzle would be more useful against things like suicide speedboats and stuff

[chilly nimbus]

isn't a massive part of the aukus deal paying fuckloads to the US so they can beef up production anyway
not to mention Australian ports becoming equipped to handle Virginia-class subs essentially gives the US free sub bases in there

[eternal veldt]

The original principle is against shoreline targets, at least for Measure 32

But it doesn't always work - Colorado got badly bruised by a 15cm land based gun during a shore bombardment

[chilly nimbus]

wonder if these are the same guys that tried to block aukus in the first place and give aus LA class subs instead

[desert agate]

Aukus isnt really putting money into American shipyards, and as of right now, the only base being upgraded to equip nuclear subs, is Fleet Base West

there are plans for a second submarine base on the East Coast, that will not be Fleet Base East or HMAS Cairns, but as it stands its still unclear where that base will be

of the 3 potential locations, one is in the middle of Brisbane, and has issues jelly fish and seaweed in certain times of year, which can get tangled on shafts or in pump jets causing operational issues and the other two locations have other issues

[manic latch]

World is becoming way too complex

[desert agate]

Port Kembla, one of the other options is quite small and quite shallow and has a town surrounding it which makes secretive deployments of submarines from the location difficult, as well as the high cost of real estate in the area

Newcastle, the final choice probably has some locations which can be used, tbh i havent looked much into the Newcastle option but I am aware of a strong public resistance to the new base

dont know why theyre whining tbh, Fleet Base West is getting nuclear subs and you dont see us up in arms about it

[subtle prawn]

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2023/07/27/senate-to-extend-buy-american-laws-for-navy-ships/

[somber knoll]

[manic latch]

Surely won't slow down the construction even more

[desert agate]

so i guess they arent getting Nulka anymore

[tough quail]

when your shipbuilding industry commits die

[subtle prawn]

Japanese AESV

[strong plank]

it uh

it will

[grave ravine]

I was talking more about what it would be useful for today, I doubt any ship would be coming under heavy shore based gunfire lol

[eternal veldt]

I think both are still fine, so long as its not sophisticated as tato said

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/07/28/senate-passes-ndaa-authorizing-10-new-ships

[manic latch]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/07/27/navy-confirms-uss-boxer-cant-get-underway-amid-reported-onboard-fire.html

[somber knoll]

Reasons to resurrect the New York Navy Yard

but then again NY is dying anyway

so

[manic latch]

Fix metro before you do the navy there

[grave ravine]

Nulka is fine

It would allow the defense secretary to wave those requirements under certain circumstances, including to expand production to Canada, Britain, Australia or New Zealand or if the Buy American requirements increase the total acquisition cost beyond 25%.

Still, this is a terrible idea

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/AusAirForce/status/1684697034396479491?t=7lc-GfjJ4Mq4zRmfes42Yw&s=19

Royal Australian Air Force (@AusAirForce)

RAAF Base Tindal is turning up the heat during @TalismanSabre with plenty of #AusAirForce and @usairforce aircraft launching from the base!🔥

📸 // 1st Lt Robert H. Dabbs

#AusAirForce #StrongerTogether #FriendsPartnersAllies #TS23

Likes

138

Twitter · Jul 27, 2023, 10:47 PM

High vis RAAF roundel my beloved

[strong plank]

NY metro is fine

the hobos are a feature not a bug

[warm finch]

I guess it could be called quality control? But then again why not just make commitee to check the quality of each component whrn you're already spending billions on a new supercarrier every other year

[grave ravine]

It's not about quality control

[grave ravine]

It's about appealing to congressmen who have defense manufacturing in their districts

[warm finch]

How disgustingly democratic.

[humble mulch]

Probably cause of the whole F35 ficaso with chips, but this is basically just US internal politics/congress bs

[warm finch]

Oh yeah I kinda wanted to mention that but since that was pretty minor and it didn´t actually create a need for the whole fleet to be refitted I chose not to.

Speaking of stealth aircraft we should probably say happy birthday to the serial production of the Su-57 since it apparently began in July 2017

[rapid junco]

https://twitter.com/Rich_Ships/status/1684528096962023427

RichShips (@Rich_Ships)

Brooklyn class cruisers CL-50 USS Helena & CL-49 USS St. Louis during target practice - SWPAC, New Caledonia on June 10, 1943.

428-NPC-955 #CL49 #CL50 #USSStLouis #USSHelena

Likes

115

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 27, 2023, 11:36 AM

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk1EcpNKX_Q

[grave ravine]

No, it's not even that deep, this is literally just pork for the senator from Wisconsin

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeiRH67GN0k

[shrewd pecan]

F-35 inflation

The F-35 you have the perfect chain of complex aircraft with multiple different variants, a international supply chain with global manufacturing involved and the pentagon fucking up and not securing multiple pieces of key intellectual property leaving them to pay higher rates to industry for various services

[random trench]

https://tenor.com/view/silbido-el-jiggler-hora-de-aventura-meneando-ondulado-gif-24570281

[random trench]

thing looks like this

[wintry moat]

That episode is honestly kinda horrifying

[random trench]

it is

you know what country often gets overlooked throughout the wars as simply a junior partner

Belgium

[wintry moat]

Who?

oh

[random trench]

Belgium went so hard unironically

he actively stood alongside the belgian troops during the march to the sea

like its honestly astounding that the belgians hung on so long

[spring briar]

Thats because

Belgium was their home

Actually it’s mostly Germany hugely underestimating the time it would take to capture key cities

For example they allotted 2 days for Liège

It took 11

Belgium was also Lightning fast in its reaction

[random trench]

yurd

even during ww2 they went hard af

you didn't see that kind of reaction from most of the other low countries

[spring briar]

I wish France’s leadership acted like Belgium in WW1

Alas

[random trench]

the Netherlands surrendered in WW2 after seeing rotterdam get obliterated

luxembourg immediately folded

at least belgium held off the entire german army despite all the odds for a few days

Chasseurs Ardennais

No one can tell me that the belgians in WW1 and 2 weren't just the biggest chads known

German High Command: Herr Kommandant, it seems they have an entire army group along the line!

Belgium: "W̴̑̀è̶̎'̵͌̀v̵͛͋e̶͌̏ ̸͂́ŕ̸un out ̎ṏ̸́f̸͋̅ ̵́̀a̸mmo bǘ̵̏t̷̄̊ ̶̑̑not out of̈ ̵͒͝h̸̔̉ô̵͑p̴̋̈́ḛ̶͠"

[thorn trail]

Eh i'd say in WW1 they were chads. I wouldn't say ww2 that much especially with how their king acted in ww2

[random trench]

I don't mean their leadership

i mean the 40 dudes out in the sticks who held up the entire german army

WW1 belgians as a whole were based, the WW2 belgians were hopelessly outmatched on every level and still managed to portray themselves as an entire army despite having less than a company defending the border

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1684970674761211913

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1945, the destroyer USS Callaghan (DD-792) sank near Okinawa after a kamikaze smashed into the starboard side. The Callaghan was the last of almost 50 Allied ships sunk by suicide attacks during the war.

Twitter · Jul 28, 2023, 4:54 PM

[remote monolith]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2023/07/27/nematode-revived-siberian-permafrost/?utm_source=reddit.com

Scientists woke up a 46,000-year-old roundworm from Siberian permafrost

[autumn sorrel]

I seen enough movie to know waking up shit from permafrost is a bad idea

Like that time when permafrost thawed and dead sheep corpse with Anthrax inside them got exposed.

[remote monolith]

you never know what kind of abomination gonna crawl out of the ice

[autumn sorrel]

I call shot on ancient Viking warlord zombie

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsL1H7w5up8

[manic latch]

@_undefined_n

[tough quail]

oh yeah he never bothered coming back here huh

[spring briar]

That is a long bygone era

I was there

3000 years ago

[humble mulch]

Mom says it's my turn now

I do think it's really cool tho when they unfreeze stuff things like that. The idea of permafrost has always just really fascinated me. And as someone who did wrestling seeing the ancestry of ringworm is kinda neat

[manic latch]

Pickle

@spring briar

[somber knoll]

The MG one should also include PK as the "heavy AK" though

[runic prairie]

looks inside

All ESSM

[random trench]

I like the AK but

Meh

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/AlboMP/status/1685086073939169280?t=6NvCZ2NObyTFfJj0-q9rdA&s=19

Anthony Albanese (@AlboMP)

Statement on Exercise Talisman Sabre.

Likes

438

Retweets

112

Twitter · Jul 29, 2023, 12:33 AM

4 feared dead after Taipan crash

[autumn sorrel]

So many thing was preserved in ice and low temp. Otzi man was so fascinating bc we have a glimpse in pre historic Alps life and not to mention baby Mammoth they dig up in Siberia.

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/DefenceAust/status/1685114206062829568?t=V8rxRP_zJmWSpG3qFkz-Aw&s=19

Defence Australia (@DefenceAust)

Defence can confirm an Australian Army MRH-90 Taipan helicopter has impacted waters near Lindeman Island, off the Queensland coast. The aircraft was participating in a night-time training activity as part of Exercise Talisman Sabre 2023.

Statement: https://t.co/Ewasg21VNZ <1/2>

Twitter · Jul 29, 2023, 2:25 AM

[autumn sorrel]

Problem is that ice may also preserve nasty bio shit that frankly should have been left alone.

[remote monolith]

mammoth cube

mammoth cube

[tough quail]

its a good thing this is a cherry picked meme and not really accurate then

[autumn sorrel]

Base AK model is a bit meh, it is deadly in a well trained professional soldier hand but in a hand of newly pressed insurgent, they can't shoot for shit

[tough quail]

thats

certainly a take

[humble mulch]

So as an AK owner, the sights are made to hit a person's chest if you aim at about their waist from I think 100 or 200m

Meaning their quite good in anyone's hands

Or the inverse, aim at chest hit waist area

Haven't shot mine in a minute, but it's quite simple

They also have a track record showing otherwise throughout countless civil wars

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2uYjoAb3AE

[autumn sorrel]

The platform have bad rep when everyone conception about it is that clown civil war in Liberia and of rusty, barely maintained AK of ME insurgents.

I find AR to be a more comfortable and accurate but AK can still achieve the same with training and mod.

[humble mulch]

No like everyone thinks of every single goddamn war

[autumn sorrel]

Which war?

[humble mulch]

The average population forgets the AK-74 exists, and others forget its actually still in use and production

The general bad rep comes from video games and media if anything actually

[autumn sorrel]

Prob bc it wasn’t as wide spread in conflict as AK-47

[humble mulch]

Yeah it's a younger platform

[autumn sorrel]

I remember first FPS game I ever play in Broken Mirror on PS2, M-16 is only in like 1 mission and the rest of the game is just AK-47 despite being in a ex Soviet state where AK-74 should be in abundant.

Oh wait, not Broken Mirror, it was “Black”

I confused it with Dark Mirror

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjiqdSwMxT8&ab_channel=FoundAndExplained

[cinder escarp]

Ah, the hyperbole.

A neat plane, but hardly as 'incredible' as made out to be.

(that whole radar in nose scheme was something the soviets loved - indeed a very similar plane was built by the Soviets as Ye-152A)

(which later became the J-8)

Personally, my old giga-interceptor favorite is the rapier

A tremendously influential design despite going nowhere.

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apO8wVU7DFo

[supple sandal]

Oh so USSR created something like a dead man's hand project and Russia just forgot it even existed until like a decade ago

[autumn sorrel]

They don't? Russian incompetent is a regular meme but they don't neglect their nuclear force and especially something as dangerous as a dead man switch

[supple sandal]

Sorry
*forgot to tell the world that they have something that dangerous

[autumn sorrel]

Umm, they actually don't

[supple sandal]

Okay

[autumn sorrel]

Yetsin was notorious for constantly bragging about it

Like how much he like to flash around the big red button, Russian also publicize it to make sure the West don't think that bc just the Soviet Union are gone, Russian can't take the world with them into apocalypse

[supple sandal]

Would be cooler if they did

Didn't tell everyone about the big red button I mean

[autumn sorrel]

American have a similar system that are more easier to find info about.

Problem with Russian one is that there are claim that their system is fully automated

As in they don't even need human command to authorize a nuclear retaliation

And no, it isn't Skynet

[supple sandal]

Same info in the video I watched but the "forgot about it"

So exaggeration

[autumn sorrel]

More like in the case of all leadership and General staffs are all dead, and no one manning it then the system will send order to all Russian nuclear force to launch nuke

[autumn sorrel]

Not exaggeration, man in the strategic missile force and submarine will receive the order and code from the system and then they can launch nuke back

[supple sandal]

No I mean the "forgotten about it existence" part

I saying that I got the wrong info

[autumn sorrel]

Well, it still allegedly bc the system sound so fucking massive and out of this world with sensor all over Russia to check seismic and radiation level to determine whether or not a nuclear strike happen, and then it still gonna require a massive computing power to analyze all of that so they can crosscheck to make sure no rogue attack was ordered.

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, yeah. It does make it sound funnier if Russian is that incompetent

But yeah, it look more like semi auto control system in case the senior leadership got taken out

[manic latch]

I made the Dead Hand

It will active when Manjuu delays Soyuz too much

I'm tempted already

[manic latch]

I think America stopped using their own

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/DRC-8_Emergency_Rocket_Communications_System

[warm finch]

... that seems fake since, isn´t one of the main things about a Russian nuclear strikes that individual base commanders are allowed to press or not press the button at their own volition?

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1685362273924096000

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1967, USS Forrestal was rocked by a series of fires and explosions after a glitch caused a Zuni rocket on an F-4B Phantom to fire and hit the fuel tank of an A-4 Skyhawk on deck. The disaster killed 134 sailors and injured 161. Among the survivors was John McCain.

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 29, 2023, 6:50 PM

[manic latch]

Dead Hand is for the case all kind of people with authority died

[warm finch]

Splendid.

[manic latch]

Upon activation and determination of the happening of a nuclear war, the system sends out a 15P011 command missile with a special 15B99 warhead that passes commands to open all silos and all command centers of the RVSN with appropriate receivers in flight.

"the Soviets had once thought about creating a fully automatic system. Sort of a machine, a doomsday machine, that would launch without any human action at all. When they drew that blueprint up and looked at it, they thought, you know, this is absolutely crazy"

So yeah Dead Hand should still has minimal human decision factor, it's not full machine only

@maiden citrus Baltimore activities

[deep apex]

The font
The lighting
The angles of the photos
The art style that decorative tree has
The captions on last ones

Can't get much more authentic than that.

I have yearbooks from the 50's that have similar graphics

[autumn sorrel]

They do but Dead Hand system in theory will act as High Command in the case senior leadership was taken out early on, and base commander can't just press the launch button at will, they need order and confirmation code that coming down the chain or in Dead Hand case, issue by the system.

[warm finch]

Yes that´s what I meant by "allow to press or not press", the phrasings a bit confusing

[autumn sorrel]

Thing with nuke is that there are so many layer of control to make sure that no single idiot can issue a rogue order to launch nuke. And putting control of all yours nuclear arsenal into an automate system is still crazy, even by Russian standard, human element is always require.

Dead Hand can bypass all control layer but only when the system have play out all scenario and come to the ultimate conclusion that Apocalypse is inevitable. Even then, the system will transfer the control power to whoever manning the station at the time.

[manic latch]

Being half machine also prevents full human error irrc

Dead Hand was created as an answer to precise Trident nukes

Since they can be launched from submarines and has good accuracy

While older nukes were missile and planes only and wasn't really accurate

So Dead Hand was created for the case if people with authority was targeted by first strike trident missiles

[manic latch]

It was designed to lie semi-dormant until switched on by a high official in a crisis. Then it would begin monitoring a network of seismic, radiation, and air pressure sensors for signs of nuclear explosions. Before launching any retaliatory strike, the system had to check off four if/then propositions: If it was turned on, then it would try to determine that a nuclear weapon had hit Soviet soil. If it seemed that one had, the system would check to see if any communication links to the war room of the Soviet General Staff remained. If they did, and if some amount of time—likely ranging from 15 minutes to an hour—passed without further indications of attack, the machine would assume officials were still living who could order the counterattack and shut down. But if the line to the General Staff went dead, then Perimeter would infer that apocalypse had arrived. It would immediately transfer launch authority to whoever was manning the system at that moment deep inside a protected bunker—bypassing layers and layers of normal command authority

[warm finch]

Interesting stuff

[manic latch]

It's a pure revenge system yes

[autumn sorrel]

So if you want to be Bond villain rogue nuke, Russian prob isn’t gonna be your source, better buy from Pakistan or South Africa.

[manic latch]

I think Dead Hand actually inspired a story plot in Cyberpunk as well

Rache Bartmoss is the best hacker of 21st century, when he gets killed, vital system activates a switch where all kinds of viruses and rogue AIs attacks the internet and simply shatters its almost completely

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, the Hacker have a dead man switch that release the virus that fucked up everything

[manic latch]

Yup

[autumn sorrel]

And there was a real life situation that almost happen but was averted thanks to an IT analyst registered a web domain on time and by doing so prevent a virus program from getting release.

[autumn sorrel]

Kinda stupid to have that and didn’t tell everyone, like dude have the best protection card but he doesn’t tell anyone.

[manic latch]

Because it's possible he killed himself by accident through staying in net too much "body died from lack of food/water"

True rogue nukes are submarines

If crew decides to mutiny

[autumn sorrel]

That’s why you have Commissar and US equivalent

[autumn sorrel]

Oh wait, he died physically long before his true death, he live on the Net before getting a Raid from Arasaka that ultimately result in his death on the Net

[manic latch]

I wonder if totalitarian or corporate culture is better for military vehicles

Totalitarian leaders have power to get what they want or build what they want without care of bureaucracy or some type of congress

While corporations have good payment for engineers and money from government to build cutting edge vehicles

So wonder if Lockheed build better planes if

1. US was an Empire (absolute one)

Or

2. Had power much as the government

[autumn sorrel]

Well, you have Soviet model as example. Some of their design are push through by pure political power instead of its functionality.

[manic latch]

Gib example

[autumn sorrel]

T-64, the damn tank was kept in production far longer due to it designer influences

[manic latch]

Well it was a pretty good tank

Hell best of its time

[autumn sorrel]

It still a good tank but there is a good reason why T-72 was designed later on

[manic latch]

Cheaper and less complex yes

British problem is worse

Their last tank factory is closed in 2017

[autumn sorrel]

[manic latch]

So their last Chal 2 hull is uhh

20 years old?

And those 2-3 decade hulls are uuh..

Becoming Challenger 3

[autumn sorrel]

Like, 100 hulls set for upgrade?

And that is like 5 yrs upgrade plan

[manic latch]

150 planned

[autumn sorrel]

I think scenario 2. Yeah, Lockheed will absolutely bribe congressman and do shenanigans shit to push through stuff but they still have check and balances to make the thing work, with totalitarian, they just swept the problem under the rug and don’t bother to fix it.

[maiden citrus]

we swear it works as you wished great leader please don't kill us

(it does not work)

[autumn sorrel]

I can’t say the same for LCS though

[manic latch]

They would get executed for LCS if they were absolute empire yeah

Or totalitarian

[autumn sorrel]

They prob gonna get away, there are so many reason and people to blame instead of the higher up.

[manic latch]

Imagine Zumwalts survive

Dictator: I don't care about shell cost, I want my big artillery ships

Follows up with 300mm railgun Super Zumwalt

[autumn sorrel]

Ngl, that’s sound awesome despite impractical as hell

But Zumwalt is kinda Navy problem.

[manic latch]

This isn't what I meant Google

Zumwalt was amazing tho

[autumn sorrel]

So many new and innovations system cramp into a combat platform. I am fine with some prototype ship and LCS will be much better as a tech test bed but shit happen when some congressmen want more vote

[manic latch]

He was Gorshkov equal

Gorshkov was also called Red Tirpitz

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, both Zumwalt and his son died of cancer

His son case is more tragic bc the guy was exposed to Chemical Orange in VN

[manic latch]

@maiden citrus Baltimore book

[maiden citrus]

yeh thankies

just woke up a bit ago

[manic latch]

It's from 1946

[autumn sorrel]

I used to have Baltimore model kit when I was 8. Shouldn’t have bought it that soon

I misread the instructions and glue the bofors mount onto the 8inch turret ring

[manic latch]

When I was a child I saw the model of Prince of Wales and thought she was the strongest warship because of having 4 barrel turrets

I had no concept of calibers by that time

[autumn sorrel]

I can already read English back when I was 8 so I really like the description of Balti service history, funny thing, I thought she was a battleship back then

Krem, would it be awesome to say that my grandfather have a picture of a Pacific Fleet Sverdlov Cruiser in Cam Ranh?

[warm finch]

Definitely corporate. Totalitarianism as a concept allowes incompetence to thrive since a dictator lives off of the support of the army.

Of course this isn´t a rule but more of a phenomenon.

[manic latch]

Of course

[solid mango]

Time to yoink aswell

[desert agate]

thats bannable my guys

[manic latch]

What

We aren't allowed to share documents?

[maiden citrus]

'this book is brought to you for free and open access'

somehow don't think so

[manic latch]

I don't think you can even buy this book anymore

"This Book is brought to you for free and open access by the World War Collections at Bangor Community: Digital Commons@bpl. It has been
accepted for inclusion in World War Regimental Histories by an authorized administrator of Bangor Community: Digital Commons@bpl. For more
information, please contact [e-mail]."

[maiden citrus]

I mean probably not considering the website is a library and encourages you to download it

for free

[manic latch]

Yeah I think this is fine

[remote monolith]

yeah if it's explicitly saying for us to take and read it then it should be good

[manic latch]

Would be ironic if

Expected Krem ban: Too much Soyuz simping

Krem ban: Shared Baltimore book from 1946

[maiden citrus]

how dare you share this free digital book

[solid mango]

[solid mango]

Where did the 8s go

[eternal veldt]

I think this is actually just a cruise book

Nothing serious and actually open available elsewhere

[quasi ridge]

look at how similar these two maps was, both prince eugen and napoleon are geniuses and learning history books took napoleon very far in the international stage

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

@spring briar Happi Navy day

[spring briar]

Happy navy day fren

[manic latch]

🍰

[spring briar]

Is that marat

[manic latch]

See

Ganguts sisters looked so similar that

Even the crews confused ships time to time

[spring briar]

They should’ve colored the turret tops

Imagine how pretty

Blue turret top Marat

[manic latch]

Yosh

[spring briar]

White turret top oktyabrskaya

[manic latch]

Happi Marat

[spring briar]

Yup

[manic latch]

Seems Marat has single floor bridge

While 3 for Gangut

Thus art is Gangut

[spring briar]

Imagine

[manic latch]

Shit

Kommuna also has 3 floor

[spring briar]

But kremmy

Is not important

All are cute

[manic latch]

True

Except Soyuz

She is more cute

[spring briar]

But Rostislav

[spring briar]

Cute

[quasi ridge]

i have a cool history book

[random trench]

You know, i've been reading lately, and i honestly think that if britain had not limited herself by adhering to the Washington Naval Treaty, Britain would have maintained a completely different role on the seas

I think that the british would have not been the junior partner in the pacific, and that the USN and RN would have fucked over the japanese majorly

[autumn sorrel]

Brit economy is completely fucked after the war and if they continue to build more ship, American and Japan will step up and begin a new naval arm race

The naval treaty, like it or not, is very much sensible

[subtle prawn]

Congress wasn't very interesting in funding a very large navy at that time iirc

[autumn sorrel]

They were isolationist but they do approve a bigger navy to keep up with Japan and Brit

[random trench]

ik ik

im not an economist, but i think being more clever about the way they were managing the empire would have helped

We were also overconfident in regards to protecting the empire

we couldn't do everything like we thought we could, on the whole

[autumn sorrel]

Well, there was a specific clause in the treaty to make sure that Brit cannot just create "Dominions Navies" to store ship and then pull them back into a gigantic ass fleet

[random trench]

which was dumb

but then again, at the time its what the british public wanted so i guess we made our bed and lied in it

[autumn sorrel]

Meh, the Dominions very much wanted their own Navy

Problem is that the Admiralty way of thinking that they should own and command everything

[random trench]

I think post WW1, we were very meek in regards to our foreign policy

i say this because we essentially handed over our crown of naval superiority without a fight to the US

Along with Appeasement

two glaring issues that britain should have handled differently

but that's with the benefit of hindsight

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/AlexLuck9/status/1685610515970809857

Alex Luck (@AlexLuck9)

First image (I know of) of PLAN Type 052B DDG 168 Guangzhou in sea, after her MLU, which among other things saw integration of VLS for HQ-16 and removal of launcher for Shtil-launcher & magazine. Via xx笑而不语xx/Weibo.

Twitter · Jul 30, 2023, 11:17 AM

[random trench]

at the time no one wanted a war

[autumn sorrel]

More like Brit isn't in any position to do anything with the Great Depression and a failing economy

[random trench]

which is why i still think not being allowed to dominionise her navy was a dumb idea

it would have saved so much money

[autumn sorrel]

Building ship is expensive and frankly, you have so much more thing to worry about at the time than building ship

[random trench]

that way the british could focus on building a modern fleet

but alas

economy

politics

[desert agate]

dominionise the navy?

[autumn sorrel]

Some Dominion like Indian actually cost the Crown money to maintain

[desert agate]

as in... give it to the dominions?

[random trench]

and then take them back if there's a war

which yeah, hands a huge amount of power to the dominions

and decentralises the navy

[desert agate]

i would note that there are political... complications in that regard

[autumn sorrel]

NZ and Aussies can have their own Navy, albeit a small and colonial style force instead of what they actually want

[desert agate]

for starters, Canada would simply outright refuse

[autumn sorrel]

Good luck with that, no way the Crown would agree to such a thing

[random trench]

no i know hence why it never happened

[desert agate]

French Canadian politicians constantly vetoe(d) any attempt for Canada to build or obtain a large fleet for any reason, they even wanted to stop the RCN getting destroyers

[random trench]

though i guess there was no saving the britain from the annals of time

[autumn sorrel]

French Canadian

[random trench]

there was literally nothing we could do to protect our naval crown

[autumn sorrel]

I bet they are from Quebec

[random trench]

yurd

[subtle prawn]

What gave that away?

[desert agate]

then theres the RAN which, as of 1918, told Britain that it would simply not participate in any conflict if it did not have guaruntees that RAN ships would be under RAN command, and would not be deployed to any area without explicit permission from the Australian government

[random trench]

Yeah

[desert agate]

this wasnt 1914 anymore when Australia readily handed over its force to British command

[random trench]

i feel like we could have done something differently, but at the same time im content with the answer of, "It just wasn't our day anymore"

[desert agate]

leaving only New Zealand which well... was probably the most loyal dominion, and South Africa which had similar political issues to Canada with the boers not wanting a fleet to help Anglo interests

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, good ol NZ

[random trench]

give all the ships to NZ, tell them have at it

[autumn sorrel]

Instead of descendant of prisoners, bunch of loyal sheep farmers

[random trench]

watch the east burn

[desert agate]

New Zealand with its population of maybe and an economy of no

[autumn sorrel]

Which is weird to see 2 colony with so dif attitude right next to each other

[random trench]

but its funny

[desert agate]

well NZ didnt exactly have a navy

[random trench]

Idk, lately ive been like, "Yeah i don't like being british, i may or may not reject my national identity all together"

so im just being real critical of the british

[autumn sorrel]

NZ have a BC that they bought with their own money and "loan" to the Royal Navy

[desert agate]

the Kiwis didnt bother even having a navy until 1921 let alone the naval staff to man it

[desert agate]

they only paid for half of it

[autumn sorrel]

[desert agate]

and the crew was half kiwi

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, I see absolutely no way Brit allow their Dominion to have an independent navy. They maybe weaken after ww1 but they still strong enough to deny greater autonomy to their colonies

Unlike the Dutch

[desert agate]

the British most certainly were not strong enough to deny greater autonomy

[autumn sorrel]

They pretty much saw East Indie command as a seperate entity

[desert agate]

as i said, when it looked ovbvious that war in Europe was happening, the RAN outright refused to participate unless the RN gave it concessions

[random trench]

Its really weird, we pioneered things such as the Tank, Aircraft carriers, naval aviation in general, sonar, anti submarine warfare, and yet we still ended up second best

[desert agate]

the Statute of Westminster was also incresingly popular in the dominions

[random trench]

Sonar and codebreaking are some of my most favourite inventions btw

[desert agate]

the empire was never profitable

it was quite literally a ponzi scheme that resulted in Britain being the most powerful nation in the world for some time

that was never going to last

no ponzi lasts forever

[random trench]

truth

hence why im a red white blue, gunshooting, alcohol drinking, flag flying american

but i don't exactly appreciate god too much or politics, i just enjoy pondering my orb

bc i legit just bought an orb

[desert agate]

alcohol, a truly uniquely American concept

[random trench]

i wanna be a wizard

anyways boats and hoes

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/AndreiS49747209/status/1685638014884524032

Dacian Draco🇷🇴🇪🇺 (@AndreiS49747209)

‼️🇷🇴Romania’s ongoing military modernisation program is i n s a n e

2.5% GDP spending (Top 5 in NATO)

Megathread 🧵1/25

Likes

212

Twitter · Jul 30, 2023, 1:06 PM

[spring briar]

Tea nut

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1685731997673558016

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1942, Franklin Roosevelt signed the Navy Women's Reserve Act into law, establishing the WAVES (Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service). More than 80,000 women served in the WAVES during WWII but were prohibited from boarding naval ships or combat aircraft.

Twitter · Jul 30, 2023, 7:20 PM

[manic latch]

🇨🇵🇷🇺🇨🇿🇰🇵

Pick one

[manic latch]

🇬🇧

Hmm

[spring briar]

🇭🇹🇰🇭🇵🇷🇸🇮

Perhaps these?

[manic latch]

Krem upgraded Soyuz (my love is her fuel) welcoming Uss Missouri

[random trench]

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[random trench]

Yes

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/megigogi/status/1685709971491540992

MEGO (@megigogi)

Which way western man

Likes

258

Twitter · Jul 30, 2023, 5:52 PM

[pallid grove]

Thock all the way

[supple sandal]

Why exactly he was shot again

[autumn sorrel]

Some alphabet agency

[supple sandal]

Yeah but for what reason

[autumn sorrel]

Something something expose the deep state

[supple sandal]

I believe there exist 2 type of conspiracy theory

[autumn sorrel]

Honestly, most of that is conspiracy theory just a few year ago

[supple sandal]

1 is stupidly unbelievable (the earth is flat)

The second is still unbelievable but people wished it was real

(NASA have a lot of funding)

A conspiracy theory stopped being a theory the moment it was proven real

[autumn sorrel]

[supple sandal]

Wait what

[autumn sorrel]

Tbh, I don't think highly of Kennedy like how American deify him, only likable one is Teddy

Kennedy at the end of the day still push for more US presence in VN so even if he live, the war gonna continue anyway

[strong plank]

There was never a shooter, Kennedy’s head just kinda did that on its own

[supple sandal]

Where :Essexholdinganotewithglasses:

Statistically being US president is currently the most dangerous job in the country

[autumn sorrel]

American is weird, you put term limit on your president but not your senators, you create the very one rulling class that your founding fathers want to get rid off

[chilly osprey]

That's because it wasn't designed to require term limits

Remember, senators originally were not elected

They were appointed by the states they represented

[rapid junco]

Hey
I definitively saw that sub on a PROSUB related article

Are Romanians buying Scorpenes??

[strong plank]

I’ve acquired the sacred texts

[fierce sparrow]

https://twitter.com/RyszardJonski/status/1685897032907501568

Junsupreme (@RyszardJonski)

Abrams Lightweight Variant Tank.
General Dynamics sketches from 30 years ago.
To me it's very similar to the M10 Booker only with autoloader.
Source: Secretprojects

Twitter · Jul 31, 2023, 6:15 AM

[supple sandal]

https://youtu.be/_bqzwsM6eoQ

[desert agate]

https://www.9news.com.au/national/military-helicopter-crash-search-continues-four-personnel/ced86d76-13d8-4fdd-8b63-77ec8a2d4ea3

Heli crew is dead

[autumn sorrel]

Sad to hear but hard to survive that kind of accident

[eternal veldt]

Nurses pose on the Hospital Ship USS Relief AH-1 with US Pacific Fleet Battleships in the background at Lahaina Roads Hawaii - Summer 1940

[manic latch]

Since its introduction into service, the NH90 has suffered several technical issues, which have delayed active deployment of the type by some operators. In 2022 Norway terminated the program and demanded a full refund, while Australia has decided to retire the type, originally due to remain in service until 2037, 10 years ahead of schedule

[thorn trail]

what BB is that in the foreground?

the one with triples

[eternal veldt]

One of the new mexicos

[desert agate]

Talks of retirement even earlier now

[chilly osprey]

NH90 remains one of the most convoluted helicopter programs of all time.

"We will have all these European countries join together to make just two variants of this helicopter, achieving economies of scale"

Actually comes up with 14 different subvariants

Half the navies involved don't purchase the anti-corrosion package on their helicopters

Dozens of modifications

[external screaming]

Granted, credit where it's due, the Dutch navy actually went through the effort to fix their helicopters and upgrade to the higher-grade anti-corrosion package that the Marina Militare used.

The French and Germans seem to have just opted to stick with what they got, for whatever reason.

[desert agate]

'hey so we just had all of our fleet ingest ash from the bushfires, and now they need engine replacements, but since you wont let us stockpile them, can you send us some over?'
'nah we're not making engines right now'
'but we need engines'
'sounds like a you problem tbh'

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpG_SHcNRFU

[random trench]

I don’t know too much about helicopters but I’ve heard that the Eurocopter Tiger was the main basis behind the idea of cooperative European aircraft

[manic latch]

Eurofighter, Eurocopter

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1686043382173294593

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1964, Task Force One consisting of USS Enterprise, USS Long Beach and USS Bainbridge left Norfolk on Operation Sea Orbit. The all-nuclear-powered unit traveled 30,565 miles around the world without refueling to “show the flag” and demo the Navy’s technical achievement.

Twitter · Jul 31, 2023, 3:57 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1685987507530567680

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

Raytheon demonstrated its Air-to-Air Stinger (ATAS) system mounted on a Stryker in 2017. The Stinger/Stryker incorporated the Stinger missile into a M153 CROWS and mounted it on a Stryker. Although this proposal was an inexpensive solution, in the end the US Army did not accept.

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 31, 2023, 12:15 PM

https://twitter.com/JonHawkes275/status/1685928785659506688

Jon Hawkes (@JonHawkes275)

Handy summary of Australia's upcoming Redback's capabilities and systems.

Likes

154

Twitter · Jul 31, 2023, 8:22 AM

[warm finch]

This actually reminds me of how seemingly unable the Nazis were of just retiring a vehicle. Prime example: Ferdinand Tank Destroyer

[shrewd pecan]

retiring vehicles in the middle of a total war

is rather difficult

since its either

your unit has those tanks

or doesn't have those tanks in most cases

[remote monolith]

especially when so much resources already went to waste to the construction

they made ninety, NINETY, of the goddamn thing

that's 90 tanks that can still be used for something, anything

[manic latch]

Yeah Soviets used some of their prototype vehicles as well

[shrewd pecan]

even for the US

older tanks usually ended up as training tanks

or being sent else where as lend lease

[supple sandal]

Germany what the fuck

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/07/31/uss-zumwalt-under-repair-before-mississippi-homeport-shift-hypersonic-missile-upgrade

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1686142346453299200

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1970 at six bells in the forenoon watch, the Royal Navy issued the last daily rations of rum, ending a 230-year old tradition. Sailors mourned "Black Tot Day" by holding mock funerals and wearing black arm bands. The Royal New Zealand Navy issued the daily tot until 1990.

Twitter · Jul 31, 2023, 10:30 PM

[warm finch]

Oh i get why, it´s just that you see the Americans not using them in combat duties/sending them elsewhere like you said. That´s what I meant, to be fair the Germans do send all the older shit to Slovakia later in the war but knowing the military integration on those two... eeeeh

[manic latch]

[junior trench]

Something something tfw in vitro vs in vivo drug testing

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1686192119361200128

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1962, the decommissioned Buckley-class destroyer escort USS Ira Jeffery (DE-63/APD-44) was sunk as a target by the Balao-class submarine USS Sennet (SS-408) using Mark 16 torpedoes.

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 1, 2023, 1:48 AM

[frozen kestrel]

Hey, quick question since the 77th anniversary of the BAKER shot was six days ago, anyone know where I could find the service history of LSM-60?

[manic latch]

http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/14/14060.htm

[frozen kestrel]

Danke

[autumn sorrel]

Why most navy that have triple turret on their battleship choose abx layout? Why not abxy?

[somber knoll]

Size, weight, seaworthiness, and overall packaging

[desert agate]

Because X and B mounts are considerably heavier than A and Y mounts

And ideally you want the majority of your fire-power facing forwards

Thus ABY becomes the more efficient layout compared to AXY

[autumn sorrel]

[spiral cedar]

You can do ABXY...if you're willing to take a lower gun caliber for the same armament weight as ABY

At some point you are sacrificing potential gun caliber to up your barrel count

That's a balancing act

More guns is more useful against enemies that aren't sufficiently protected against you

Bigger guns are more useful against larger, more armored enemies

Most navies felt 8-10 was a sweetspot

So with triples that means 9 guns

[desert agate]

https://www.defence.gov.au/news-events/news/2023-08-01/exercise-talisman-sabre-incident

Full statement by Defence regarding the helicopter crash

[solid mango]

[fierce sparrow]

it seems my yt "recommendation" keep showing me the "Is South Korea Building the Next Battleship?".

Sigh... my first thought would be, battleship? didn't they show the proposed Aircraft Carrier? The title seems strange to me.
I have to admit, the Arsenal Ships looks pretty RAD...

[wintry moat]

I keep seeing that as well

[manic latch]

Not even Kirov was called BB

[chilly osprey]

The only possible name

Other than 'Joint Firepower Ship'

Is 'The Fuck Kimmy Barge"

[supple sandal]

Yeah because people understand that bb kinda obsolete

Unless for whatever reason that you really need some naval artillery and enemy have no means to attack it

[chilly osprey]

In which case most major warships carry 5" guns, and that will be more than enough

[autumn sorrel]

Is it possible for modern day AA defense to shoot down a 16inch shell?

[spring briar]

No

There’s a few feet of steel for any conventional projectiles to go through

And they wouldn’t meaningfully slow it down either

Maybe a well placed missile against the lower half of the projectile body might detonate it

[strong plank]

CIWS trying to shoot apart a 16in SHS

that’s a funny image

[lost ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/plananx-ciws-gif-18207820

[spring briar]

For example, this wouldn’t do shit to a 16” shell

[chilly osprey]

If it was an HE shell you'd have a better chance

But you'd ideally want a larger caliber even then

[spring briar]

Definitely

[chilly osprey]

There were/are doubts about the ability of Phalanx (20mm) to penetrate the warhead of 'armored' missiles like Kh-22, for example.

[spring briar]

No doubt

But against a 16” shell
No

[strong plank]

then there’s interceptors but like

would interceptors even be able to lock on

[tough quail]

this is why goalkeepers are more based

[spring briar]

What is that

[chilly osprey]

Goalkeeper is a Dutch system that basically asks 'what if Phalanx used a GAU-8 30mm cannon'

[spring briar]

That still really isn’t doing a lot to a 16” shell

Like at all

Hate to break it to ya

[chilly osprey]

Well, it's not exactly equivalent to Phalanx. Different fire control, and deck penetrating

Which is why it had much more limited export success

[chilly osprey]

I mean, it's a physical object. Either their seeker or a radar illuminator will guided them to the target.

[spring briar]

A 16” shells for any gun based ciws system
Is basically trying to shoot an inert block of steel out of the sky

It just isn’t going to do a lot

At all

Especially because your shells are going to hit the AP cap first

And kinda pit that

And just not really do anything to the shell body below

[manic latch]

Yeah Granits also had head armor for Gun ciws

Likely can tank 20mm since Soviets likely tested against their own 30mm

[spring briar]

@tough quail French experimental lead bullet

from the 1830's

[tough quail]

Oh god

[autumn sorrel]

So if 16” is invulnerable to any countermeasures short of Muv Luv laser class, until which caliber that modern day defense can reliably shot down?

[spring briar]

perhaps 5"

or smaller

man

imagine being a soldier in 1850

and then you get hit by a 18mm lead bullet going as fast as a commercial airliner

[chilly osprey]

I imagine 76mm APFSDS would do something to a 16"

But beyond that

You have missiles that can pack a lot of bang

And shells don't maneuver

[spring briar]

APFSDS would probably be able to pen rather deeps

but all the way to the burster chamber

not sure

but probably your best chance to pen it frontally

[chilly osprey]

True, but if you're staring to get hit by multiple, I imagine the shell is going to have a bad time

What with that said

[spring briar]

the more hits, the higher chance one will make it through

but this is kind of a dumb scenario

lol

[chilly osprey]

I mean, yeah

I haven't even gotten into how likely it is for anything with SAMs to ruin the battleship's day before it gets close enough to use the guns

Or how much of a PITA it would be to try and hit a modern ship chasing salvoes

Because of how much more responsive gas turbine powered ships are versus steam powered ones

And how maneuverable a lot of modern ships are.

[spring briar]

what would you rather get hit by

[chilly osprey]

I'd rather, uh, not

All options seem rather unfortunately for my health

[spring briar]

Old bullets are the stuff of nightmares

Also, Phoenix, this will interest you

[autumn sorrel]

Look like that bullet from “Wanted”

[zealous vine]

Is it me, or have I been noticing that a lot of modern tanks have, or what seems like, cutouts on their turrets

[tough quail]

where do you mean exactly

[autumn sorrel]

You mean optics and sensor?

[zealous vine]

on the sides, there are holes for the smoke launchers. I was wondering why it would have to be completely covered from front to back rather than, say, like the challengers

(tbf, the armata's turret is unmanned so I can see why it would have so much hollow spaces)

[tough quail]

those arent smoke launchers anyway, at least for the armata

the neo-brooms is also unmanned

[zealous vine]

my bad

[tough quail]

but yeah for the armata thats the APS, same deal with the funky neo abrams iirc

[autumn sorrel]

Isn’t Armata APS are the box of charges on top?

[manic latch]

Armata ones are APS yeah, ones from T-95

[autumn sorrel]

APS angle is…. interesting

[manic latch]

T-15 one is like this

My theory is

Box turret = hard kill APS

Tubes= soft kill as some kind of cold fast smoke for preventing IR lock

[autumn sorrel]

Isn’t it still better to launch that kind of countermeasures upward?

[manic latch]

That's the problem. No idea how these tubes work

Easy to see with the box turret

But tubes? Nope

[autumn sorrel]

Never understand why those is even there to begin with. Look so much like they just slap armor and cover on T-95 and call it a day.

[manic latch]

Maybe they are fixed launcher like Soviet Drozds

More obvious with a model

Yeah they are likely fixed hardkill

[spring briar]

I could pen that with my kentucky rifle

[manic latch]

I need to pen Soyuz's heart

[zealous vine]

So..

Cutout-like structure on T14, NeoBrams because its unmanned, less emphasis on armor
for the Type 10, its to cut weight

[manic latch]

Manless turrets doesn't need armor yeah

There is no crew to protect

And it's smaller

[tough quail]

unarmored turret holding all the ammo with a direct link to the crew for the gunner to climb in be like

[manic latch]

Not sure if they are connected but in a seperate capsule

Only way to reload is well someone has to leave and enter with the shells later

But if you are restocking means you are in a safe place anyway

[spring briar]

@tough quail

Chamelot Devigne M1873

[tough quail]

excellent

[spring briar]

we need to go back

[tough quail]

the ideal male form

[spring briar]

@manic latch The Russian in the Crimea war mostly had smoothbores, but many were equipped with Belgian Nessler balls
these were kind of like a shotgun slug, keeping the bullet stable in flight, which increased accuracy

[autumn sorrel]

@jolly cove so, what was your point again?

[jolly cove]

I should have said "during the time of WW2" but you and others seem to be insistent about talking about the war itself

My point is that germany is among the more land locked nations

They historically don't focus on the navy as much

It's the same as Austria

Had Germany not started the second world war, they would not need to focus on a navy for their primary self defense

[autumn sorrel]

They were never land locked, the hell are you talking about? And Australia? Aussie very much like to have a strong navy

[jolly cove]

Thus their manufacturing base is historically not used to naval construction

[jolly cove]

Austria, not Australia

[subtle prawn]

Kaiser Wilhelm II very clearly wanted a large navy for Germany

[autumn sorrel]

Astro Hungary have a very professional and well funded navy pre ww1

[wintry moat]

WW1 Germany had colonies in the Pacific

[jolly cove]

Yes they had colonies

But historically they didn't always, so their manufacturing base is simply not traditionally focused on naval infrastructure, England has focused on naval infrastructure at the very least since the 16th century

[autumn sorrel]

Not just colonies, Kaiserliche Marine is German Empire tool for international influence

[jolly cove]

Germany started getting colonies and expanding since Otto Von Bismarck, but it's a luxury of their size and scope as an empire, and not a necessity for the self defense of the heart of the nation

[autumn sorrel]

Man, you missed the Dreadnought race, German industrial base very much capable of building big fleet unit

[spring briar]

that's what their far east squadron is for

[jolly cove]

If Germany wanted to merely protect Germany, they don't need to focus on the navy

[spring briar]

the bulk of the HSF was for fighting England

[jolly cove]

Which was somehow overtaken in scale by the Japanese during the second world war

[wintry moat]

Cuz losing the war does that

Japan was an Ally nation

they could keep what they had

[autumn sorrel]

Aero is arguing that German don’t need a ongoing sea fleet bc they’d better off with a self defense style one

[jolly cove]

You guys are still insistent on talking about the war itself when I brought up a hypothetical

[jolly cove]

"better off"

No you misunderstand

Necessity does not equal better off

[spring briar]

having stuff like Dlands overseas to annoy English ports and divert their resources can be very handy

and naval bombardements

having a navy is always good

[jolly cove]

This is a very simple argument I'm making, which is that Germany's navy is a luxury made necessary to maintain its imperial expansion and not to protect its mainland borders

[spring briar]

just depends if you can effectively wield it

[lime scarab]

And being several crippled from war reparations and such

[wintry moat]

Mentally tied that in

my bad

[spring briar]

what war reparations?
they never paid anything during the interbellum

[wintry moat]

Really?

[spring briar]

Germany was easily capable of paying off its war reparations

[wintry moat]

Damnit, why was I taught that throughout school then?

[spring briar]

given most of Germany's industry was intact

[lime scarab]

Didn’t they have to pay England and France was reparations which they didn’t have and couldn’t pay back

[autumn sorrel]

Be Weimar
Print money to pay for shit
Super Inflation
People protesting
Blame it on the French

[spring briar]

that's what people love to say
to try and justify the economic situation in germany
and what followed

I'll give you an example

France lost the Franco Prussian war
had to pay more than Germany after WW1
France paid it off in a couple years
and had one of its most prosperous periods ever afterwards
even after losing Alsace-Lorraine
which had a lot of french industry

[autumn sorrel]

You could argue that Kaiserliche Marine is Tirpitz and Kaiser Wilhelm pet project but a strong navy is absolutely necessary if Germany want to be a great power and a relevant force in Europe.

[jolly cove]

Okay, so we agree

It's only necessary if germany wants to be an empire

[autumn sorrel]

And protect the border is German Army not the Navy

[wintry moat]

Plus

[jolly cove]

England needed it for centuries to protect itself from invaders, the literal borders

[wintry moat]

If Tension between Britain and Germany broke out with British Aggression if by some fuckiness

[jolly cove]

Germany uses the army primarily to protect its borders

[spring briar]

*invade others

[wintry moat]

the Brits would just blockade them right?

[jolly cove]

Well, during WW2 yes

[wintry moat]

and strangle the Germans

[spring briar]

not just WW2 lolw

[jolly cove]

Again, I think you guys are insistent on talking about the war specifically, I'm just entertaining a hypothetical

[autumn sorrel]

Ok, we will jump to your ww2 points

[spring briar]

all of Prussian politics was built upon unifying the germanic peoples and expanding lebensraum
yes even in Prussian times

[jolly cove]

I am not interested in the idiosyncrasies of what Germany needed specifically during WW2

Or other wars

[wintry moat]

I'm confused

[jolly cove]

Technically speaking for German borders they only need a navy if they are trying to keep their colonies and hold onto an empire

[lime scarab]

I think I am two

[spring briar]

For a world war
you need a navy

that's basically the gist

[autumn sorrel]

Even without the colonies or empire in ww2, the navy is still very much needed

Problem is that they are too ambitious about it

[jolly cove]

If the Germans weren't an empire their navy would be even more insignificant than it already was during WW2

[lime scarab]

You mean throwing out two many plans for a fleet and different warships

[jolly cove]

Modern Austria doesn't even have a navy

[spring briar]

they're landlocked

[jolly cove]

Yes, and Germany practically is too

[spring briar]

no

[humble mulch]

You can be landlocked and have a navy

[spring briar]

they aren't

lmao

[jolly cove]

Without it's colonies Germany has access to the Danube and black sea

[autumn sorrel]

So, you are saying that, for ww2 Germany, they only need coastal defense ship?

[jolly cove]

And a few cruisers maybe yes

[autumn sorrel]

That called riverine patrol

[wintry moat]

WW2 doesn't happen if Germany doesn't throw it's weight around

[spring briar]

having a contested coastline does not equal being "basically" landlocked
and a strong navy facillitates actually uncontesting said coastline

that's a lot of coast

[autumn sorrel]

I maybe think plan Z is dumb and over ambitious but if they just do that like you said then they are even more fucked

[spring briar]

plan Z is horrid

but not having a navy is also horrid

it means just a part of the RN or MN can blockade Germany

and then it's game over

like imagine having a land war
but your major ports are literally getting shelled daily

and you have no way to supply fruit

or other overseas exports

like rubber

oil

[jolly cove]

This whole thing started because someone said if azur lane is going to have any more ships to add to KMS to be equal to other factions, and I said they inherently didn't in the real world because their naval operations are not a primary focus like it was for England

[spring briar]

my man
AL making IB a major was the biggest mistake to begin with

[autumn sorrel]

Well, it is hard to focus when you’re having a big ass war in the East

[spring briar]

it's the cause of all the issues

[lime scarab]

Kinda like a modern day costal patrol warship of American navy and other modern navy

[subtle prawn]

Marine Nationale or the Regia Marina being the better choice for a major faction?

[wintry moat]

AL could also ya know, dig up the High Seas Fleet

[humble mulch]

If you are gonna cry and do faction wanking I'm gonna throw you all out

[wintry moat]

That's a good amount of vessels to have

[autumn sorrel]

Way better, they have more real ship but less paper ship

[spring briar]

ok but what about the old MN
the old RN

see where the issue starts

[wintry moat]

Yeah

Your right

[spring briar]

you're always going to have to babysit germany

[wintry moat]

true

[autumn sorrel]

You really want the hotels, do you

[wintry moat]

no arguing there

[spring briar]

ofc

[wintry moat]

Yes

[spring briar]

[jolly cove]

Ironblood being a main faction as a bad decision I do agree with

[wintry moat]

love the French hotels

[jolly cove]

It shows a lack of understanding and German bias imo

[wintry moat]

French crack must be wild

[spring briar]

never forget that the French armoured cruisers saved multiple armenian villages during WW1 from the genocide

having a navy

[humble mulch]

This is where marketing comes in

[spring briar]

is good

[jolly cove]

"we want shipgirls with cool German uniforms" is what the ironblood faction tells me

[humble mulch]

And tells you you're just wrong

[autumn sorrel]

In the Black sea?

[spring briar]

nah now it's just horni demon ladies

[spring briar]

in the mediterranean

[humble mulch]

There's different priorities when it comes to what a gacha game is gonna pick and choose to have it bring in its money

And sadly, we all fucking know correct history isn't one of those reasons

[autumn sorrel]

How? I thought that event was more localized in the Caucasus and Black sea?

[subtle prawn]

Richie, do you know what the MN thought of the Capitani Romani-class ships that were ceded to them as war prizes by Italy?

[spring briar]

wait

lemme get a better pic

[wintry moat]

Side tangent, when did France start build battleships again after school of “Small Botes beat big botes”

I know how to say it not spell it

June Ecolle

I know thats a butchery

[jolly cove]

Oh we have circled back to this, lol rip, I guess the demand is for German shipgirls? wehraboos must have a lot of money

[wintry moat]

I'm sorry

[autumn sorrel]

When Brit decided to standardize their battleline with a single class of battleship

[wintry moat]

oh

what would that class be?

[autumn sorrel]

Royal Sovereign class

[spring briar]

during the Jeune école,
the budget allowed for some battleships
which were of course overweight and undersized

the first french Pre dreads which weren't haunted by the Jeane école were the Patries
and you can tell

[wintry moat]

ok

[wintry moat]

The patchwork ships?

[spring briar]

no

[wintry moat]

The one drach covers

[spring briar]

no

[wintry moat]

Ok

Sorry

[spring briar]

France was building battleships during the Jeune école period

[wintry moat]

ok

[humble mulch]

Yes it's been stated before on JP streams that EN is very fond of IB, and we have big income peaks on IB events and a lot of them doing really well in the popularity contests

I also

Do wargaming

[wintry moat]

just not the massive amounts Britain wasn't

[humble mulch]

It's an across the board thing

[autumn sorrel]

The one before that, they still build Battleship but small number

[jolly cove]

The German mythos during WW2 really created a dumb German fangirl culture lol rip

[spring briar]

sadly not no
since French BB's had notable qualities over their British counterparts
but sadly held back by jeune école practices

[humble mulch]

German will always be wanked cause they are almost always hyped up on causal conversations so they are far more inreesting then otheting things

[jolly cove]

Hyped up is understating it

[humble mulch]

You don't need to understand everything about tanks

To like the big cats

Especially with how they are portrayed

[jolly cove]

People genuinely believe that the Germans were creating technology way ahead of everyone else, etc. etc.

[spring briar]

I like the Tiger and the Pz.3
That's about it

the rest is boring af

[autumn sorrel]

Brit before Royal Sovereign only build ship in pair for trial and testing, RS being mass building make the brit battleline more streamline and standardize

[jolly cove]

Americans love to hype up WW2 Germany

[humble mulch]

Like fuck Whitman is a wanked tank Ace yet during the war he was pretty much a no body iirc?

[wintry moat]

ok

[humble mulch]

So does they UK

[wintry moat]

some of that stems from the actual war to keep morale up

[autumn sorrel]

They have to hype the German to make their defeat less embarrassing

[wintry moat]

looks at Bismarck

[jolly cove]

Whitman was somebody... If it's for nazi propaganda radio

[humble mulch]

Basically yeah, and since they kinda kicked italys ass, thus they don't embellish italian shit and also bad mouth them

[jolly cove]

Most of it is post-war allied nations needing west Germany to go from the evil enemy into a respectable ally during the cold war

[humble mulch]

Even tho they were competent and not bad

[autumn sorrel]

I don’t know whether to love it or strangle the designer

[spring briar]

Beautiful ship wdym

[autumn sorrel]

Too many porthole

[wintry moat]

it's got pug mentality so ugly its cute

[autumn sorrel]

And not enough gun sticking out of it

[wintry moat]

Actual bathtoy

[autumn sorrel]

Floating hunk of steel

[spring briar]

French ironclad floating battery
The first iron armoured warships in history

They were used at the battle of Kinburn in the Crimean war

And were invulnerable to Russian cannons

[wintry moat]

Get memed on Ruskies

France seems to be the hidden gem of Europe

[spring briar]

*iron and wood

[humble mulch]

This is the part that interests me the most, looking back on how everyone rebuild and views themselves now in terms of "we were the baddies"

[spring briar]

Yeah but we get memed on because of one event in 1940

[humble mulch]

Cause you have Comblock nations who got fucked and kinda sorta embrace it but acknowledge they did some bad shit, like Romania, and then you get fucking Japan

[wintry moat]

The government didn't have a spine, the guys on the ground tried

I don't fault France too bad

[autumn sorrel]

They done right on battleship design, right when everyone else start building missile guided ship

[spring briar]

Isn’t that every government

[wintry moat]

fair

[humble mulch]

Yeah same reason Germany gets hyper wanked

It sucks

[wintry moat]

cuz the way Germany got to present itself in history

[humble mulch]

finland?

[wintry moat]

And Poland

[autumn sorrel]

Japan is the worst in term of looking back. They basically never acknowledge that period of history, not bc they were the bad guy but bc they lose.

[jolly cove]

The JCP does

Ironically

The JCP is considered by the south koreans to have the most honest take on Japanese war crimes

[humble mulch]

What's the JCP?

First I've heard of that acronym

[autumn sorrel]

Japan commie party

[humble mulch]

LMAO

[wintry moat]

Huh

[autumn sorrel]

They’re really dumb

[wintry moat]

Didn't expect that

[spring briar]

WW2 if the Maginot line ran across the Belgian border as well:

[humble mulch]

OUT OF RVERYONE ITS THE FUCKING COMMUNISTS

[wintry moat]

I mean

[autumn sorrel]

They kinda ok until they simp for Mao and North Korea

[jolly cove]

It's because they have no national pride like many Japanese do

[wintry moat]

Didn't the Maginoe technically work if the Germans had to find a way around it?

[spring briar]

Yes