OH NO
#history
tough quail
thorn trail
wait
maiden citrus
I knew you'd have me
eternal veldt
Guidoni's catamaran carrier. 3,500 tons, 3 meter draft. 80,000 shp for 33 knots.
maiden citrus
the clemson hord
thorn trail
who decided that
thorn trail
Nah just have uh
manic latch
thorn trail
an entire DD division line up while a flat deck is laid on top of them
eternal veldt
Bearn had torpedo tubes on at one point, yes
tough quail
didnt a bunch of the conversions
maiden citrus
torpedo tubes are on so many ships historically that they shouldn't be
eternal veldt
plen = unproven concept
maiden citrus
you get used to it
eternal veldt
I don't recall Lexington and Akagi having it, unless I'm mistaken
thorn trail
No i get that BBs and BCs early on had torps
tough quail
hmmm
thorn trail
But was Bearn the only carrier to carry torps?
maiden citrus
I am now imagining langley with torps struggling to get in range
just wiggling back and forth quickly like a crab swimming
thorn trail
Because I know Lexi's had those 8in cruiser guns and so did Akagi with those forward guns on the 2nd (or 3rd) deck
But torps is just wut
WAIT
THEY WEREN'T UNDERWATER?!?!?!
thorn trail
I thought they'd be underwater or like casemated or smth
thorn trail
Ah
eternal veldt
It's common practice on many cruisers of the time.
thorn trail
I thought they were swiveled launchers on the flight deck
eternal veldt
Trento had it, Myoko had it until their big reconstruction
tough quail
thorn trail
Trento had it, Myoko had it until their big reconstruction
Which Myoko version in your opinion was better?
the 155mm one or the 203mm gun version?
eternal veldt
....Myoko with quad 203s is a based design though, shame it didn't went through
tough quail
thorn trail
Yeah from 155 vs 203 Mogami
eternal veldt
The guns aren't really the problem, I feel
eternal veldt
it's the ship being lightly built and welded that's the main issue
and in general, I don't like the RN/IJN practice of having zilch armour on the guns
literally 25mm plating
thorn trail
actually why was that their doctrine
what was the reasoning making the guns paper thin in armoring
random trench
I thought the entire concept was fast battleships
Actually
I’m forgetting that Britain entered WW2 with like a hodgepodge mesh of different battleship types
junior trench
hits to gun mounts regardless of armor tend to knock them out for the fight
random trench
hits to gun mounts regardless of armor tend to knock them out for the fight
Yeah
So why put armour
junior trench
the difference being the massive disparity between a jammed mount and a catastrophic loss of mount... and ship
because uh
eternal veldt
trying to find Choukai's diagram
junior trench
the IJN cruisers had 25mm barbettes as well
"oops, we had an ammo train fire in the turret stalk due to a DD SAP shell"
vs
bonk
thorn trail
how much did the IJN hate turret crews lol
junior trench
not enough to deny them a sunshade
thorn trail
it's like they want the turret to die
limber dune
very much it seems
limber dune
on the fubuki-class they didnt even give them assistive loading mechanisms and it was incredibly cramped
junior trench
to stop the main plate from turning into an griddle
eternal veldt
"this is fine"
junior trench
meanwhile other mounts have actual thermal mass
eternal veldt
The shell ripped the 25-mm armor,
penetrated the turret, and exited through the rear without
exploding, as seen in drawing 7 .1. The shell damaged the
aiming sight of the gun and destroyed compressed-air pipes,
electric wires, and an electric motor. Moreover, the blast of
the ship's own 20-cm guns caused superficial damage to the
superstructure, and the blast of No.4 turret damaged the exhaust ventilation fan of the starboard fonvard engine room.
thorn trail
@eternal veldt Friend sent me this and how real is this actually. Did the Japanese really plan to put torps on an amphibious landing craft?
limber dune
that doesnt really look legit tbh
eternal veldt
Not too familiar with landing craft, sorry.
limber dune
what would you need torpedoes on amphibious landing craft?
thorn trail
Aight. because I'm trying to read up on this and I can barely find any info
eternal veldt
what would you need torpedoes on amphibious landing craft?
to sink the IJN, their mortal enemy, duh
thorn trail
what would you need torpedoes on amphibious landing craft?
Their plan was apparently to sneak near the naval atolls in the pacific to sink US BBs
thorn trail
By the time development had been completed, it was proposed that the Ka-Tsu be used to attack US battleships anchored in atolls (such as Ulithi), which could not readily be attacked using conventional means. It was proposed that a Ka-Tsu armed with a pair of torpedoes be dropped off by submarine away from the atoll, propel itself to the outer reef using its tracks, and then enter the lagoon on the inside of the reef.
Was just wondering if there were any more sources on this
Also no it isn't IJA
it's IJN
old lily
manic latch
Psst Silver
If I wanted a certain battleship to be very comfortable when sailing around
What engine and fuel would I use
eternal veldt
I'm not the machinery expert here, you're better off asking Sirene or Riche
Sirene's obvious answer would be diesel, but still
maiden citrus
I mean diesel is pretty based
strong plank
I also just learned earlier that apparently one of the rejected designs for the Ford class was a stealth CVN
and looking at its design makes me wish for death
maiden citrus
RAMMING SPEED
eternal veldt
you see, when Nimitz loves Independence very much...
strong plank
it looks like it was conceieved by a Nimitz and an Independence while the Sea Shadow watched
maiden citrus
the missile knows where it is
it is in the ocean
it is a ship now
the missile knew where it was, but not what it would become
strong plank
oh god I didn't notice
maiden citrus
remember kids, you can be anything you set your mind to
strong plank
are those vls cells on the nose
manic latch
are those vls cells on the nose
Kuznetsov: I was right after all
supple sandal
desert agate
canada
supple sandal
Definitely Canadians
grave ravine
?
desert agate
canadian war crimes
grave ravine
I see
supple sandal
Legally not a war crime if there is no trial but holy fuck
That some fucked up shit
spring briar
Holy shit what y’all do without me
maiden citrus
spring briar
<:MakaDog:819427575951917087>
strong plank
killing overhyped battleships for one
autumn sorrel
“Borrow” ship from the French 
strong plank
British carrier aviation was pretty good to my knowledge
esp given how, funding wise, it was basically playing second fiddle to land-based aviation for a good while
spring briar
@delicate beacon
autumn sorrel
<@204885533380444160>
Common ancestry?
shrewd pecan
Vls ford
autumn sorrel
Cute
grave ravine
British carrier aviation was pretty good to my knowledge
That depends on what you are talking about
The British had a lot of experience with the mechanics of carrier aviation, their newer carriers were good enough, and the armored carrier doctrine does make sense given what Britain was trying to do. Furthermore Britain had far and away the best fighter direction and coordination
That being said, the carrier planes themselves kinda sucked
warm finch
That being said, the carrier planes themselves kinda sucked
Now I wouldn´t say that, the Harrier is widely regarded as one of the best 3rd gens. And its service record shows that.
grave ravine
I presumed we were talking WW2 era
warm finch
Iam deeply sorry for my lack of context
grave ravine
That being said I would contest claims that Harrier is one of the best 3rd gen jets
Harrier is a very niche aircraft
It was definitely the best VTOL fighter of its time
But that's not exactly hard
warm finch
Harrier is a very niche aircraft
Yes it has to be used correctly.
chilly osprey
If you are talking in the WWII era, then you have to give the RN points for night combat.
They were generally more practiced at it than most other navies going into WWII and I suspect would have given the IJN some rather significant kickings had they more opportunities to actually engage them in surface actions.
grave ravine
Yeah
warm finch
I feel like there are times the british come out on top through a suprising amount of luck like with the sinking of the Bismarck and then there are times where they just dominate through sheer skill like with the battles in the meditteranean
chilly osprey
I mean, there's an element of luck or chance to everything in naval warfare.
They were just quite good at shaping scenarios so that the odds were in their favor before they actually fought.
grave ravine
I feel like there are times the british come out on top through a suprising amou...
Eh, I'm not sure I would attribute them sinking Bismarck to good luck, like there were ways things could have gone worse for the RN, but there were definitely ways they could have gone better too
warm finch
Eh, I'm not sure I would attribute them sinking Bismarck to good luck, like ther...
I wouldn´t either, but I don´t think it´d be the sinking of the Bismarck then but instead the almost sinking of the Bismarck. If it wasn´t for the swordfish attack or the interception of that one personal message from land it is likely she wouldn´t have been taken out.
eternal veldt
If you meant the message Lutjens sent out, he was under the belief that the RN was still shadowing him
as it turns out, people make mistakes based on the fog of war
manic latch
Now I wouldn´t say that, the Harrier is widely regarded as one of the best 3rd g...
That plane was one of the reason Falklands performance was mediocre (losing 6 ships)
Because harrier caused you to build ships without catapult
If British had F-4 and Awacs instead Harriers during Falklands
It would have been much better
warm finch
It´s a sidegrade by design. It´s less expensive to maintain and build the ship which severely helped with the economy.
And the war was just a humiliation to the Argentines, they lost more men than the outnumbered british and had to yield the seas to a nation which was a literal ocean away.
autumn sorrel
And the war was just a humiliation to the Argentines, they lost more men than th...
It’s doesn’t look like that at the beginning of the war. It was actually very bad for the Brit with them have to pull force from all over to form the task force and they take heavy losses when Argentina air force doing bombing run on their anchored transports and warships
Calling it an absolute Brit win is a stretch
grave ravine
Because harrier caused you to build ships without catapult
I would note that Harrier isn't what caused them to build VTOL carriers, money is
warm finch
Calling it an absolute Brit win is a stretch
Oh I didn´t, if anything this helps the point that Argentina was humiliated. The British had several things go wrong, the whole war was pretty poorly planned from a modern standpoint but the British did quite well with what they had.
grave ravine
Harrier enabled them
autumn sorrel
Oh I didn´t, if anything this helps the point that Argentina was humiliated. The...
Well, the Argentine Navy was really in no position to oppose the RN. RN naval blockade was never breached and well, Phoenix lost really take a toll on Argy Navy.
But yeah, Brit war plan was a bit of a mess. I always loathe Journo but actually broadcast your attack plan to the enemy? Yeah, BBC can go suck it.
Argy actually fuck themself by invading, territorial dispute is one thing, invasion is another thing entirely.
warm finch
Dictators going to do dictator things I reckon, can only put them in their place from there
autumn sorrel
Any anti colonial claim they have was throw outside of the window when they declare war.
autumn sorrel
Dictators going to do dictator things I reckon, can only put them in their place...
The Regime was really unpopular, the Junta only rule by fear and they barely hold on to power at the time.
warm finch
Yes isn´t that why they invaded? To increase opinion? Dictator logic of "look we took territory that´s good right?"
autumn sorrel
Yeah, kinda
It was the time when Brit was retreating from all of their colonies so they think they can do some “anti colonial” sentiment. Problem is, those islands inhabitants are all British descent and Argy was really never actually own the Island. It was the Spanish then the Brit.
But Argy can’t really renounce their claim. It will be political suicide to do that so you still see they complain about it till this day.
warm finch
Yeah, and even then the claim doesn´t really make sense as you delve into it
manic latch
I would note that Harrier isn't what caused them to build VTOL carriers, money i...
That's the thing tho
You are forced to build a normal carrier if you have no vtol
gloomy current
You are forced to build a normal carrier if you have no vtol
I wouldn't call the Kuznetsov normal
Then again I don't know if it counts as a carrier anymore either
manic latch
I wouldn't call the Kuznetsov normal
It has slope like QE, it's elevators are large enough
It has arresting gear
Only difference is it has Granit anti ship missile launchers
Which makes her a cruiser by name as well
gloomy current
Doesn't qe exclusively use stovl planes
manic latch
F-35B yes. But in theory she could handle planes that can use ramp
But British stopped building naval planes since
Sea Harrier
gloomy current
Return to flying boats when
manic latch
Doesn't qe exclusively use stovl planes
F-18 had ramp tests for India for example
Pros of ramps
Literally no maintenance
Extremely reliable
Easy to design and build
Fast plane launches
Cheap
Cons
Planes can't carry full load weapons and waste more fuel
Can't launch AWACS
chilly osprey
There was a proposal to launch an F/A-18 off of QE
As a demonstration
Didn't happen as no one involved really wanted to foot the bill, however
But it would have been an interesting proof of concept for a STOBAR arrangement
chilly osprey
Well, the Argentine Navy was really in no position to oppose the RN. RN naval bl...
Tbh, General Belgrano's loss is kind of overstated in terms of its impacts on the Argentine Navy
Their planned pincer attack had already failed, as a lack of wind prevented their A-4's from taking off of V. de Mayo, so they were already pulling away from the combat zone.
They obviously knew the RN had SSNs in the area, and V. de Mayo's group - which was equipped with the more modern ships of the Argentine Navy at the time and actually knew what they were doing when it came to ASW - ended up playing a cat and mouse game with one of the British subs for much of the rest of the time they were at sea.
Belgrano's group, on the other hand, was composed of older ships, and they were handled poorly - they did not even take the bare minimum of precautions against submarine attacks, and paid a steep price for it.
grave ravine
You are forced to build a normal carrier if you have no vtol
Well, or you could just build not carrier at all
and looking at the British govt and their procurement, I can totally see them going that route
autumn sorrel
@shrewd pecan Gun but Dino
warm finch
It has slope like QE, it's elevators are large enough
It has arresting gear
On...
It´s more of a political requirement. Carriers over a certain tonnage can´t go through the Bosphorus. The thing with the Kuznetsovs needing the ramp/ski-jump/cope slope whatever you wanna call it is the fact the soviets didn´t really know how to incorporate catapults at that point, the Ulyanovsk was expected to incorporate that but we all know how our favorite ship concept ended up.
snow mist
Which torp mount does laffey (dd-724) use?
The quad mark 35 or the quintiple mark 17?
spring briar
Quint
shrewd pecan
Pros of ramps
Literally no maintenance
Extremely reliable
Easy to design and ...
I wouldn’t say no maintenance
snow mist
Quint
Ok thanks this should make my laffey 100% historicaly accurate (except for the auxiliary slot)
manic latch
It´s more of a political requirement. Carriers over a certain tonnage can´t go t...
Yes Kuznetsov class was a stopgap until Ulyanovsk were built
Soviets valued the potential of AWACS so Ulyanovsk was going to get it as Yak-44 with side catapult
And yes
She was also a cruiser
Thus granits vls on bow
shrewd pecan
every soviet carrier was a cruiser that just happened to carry fix wing aircraft
warm finch
I still love that story about the Kiev where they apparently sent her into the atlantic with 6 aircraft and they just scrambled them so often it looked like she had 60
Fake or not it´s funny
snow mist
Is the kuznetsove the one got on fire at dockyard and eventually get scrapped or am I remembering the wrong one?
warm finch
I think you´re messing it up with the LHD Bonhomme Richard
caught on fire with nothing onboard to save her, got scrapped.
Though the Kuznetsovs track record with breakdowns isn´t that great either...
warm finch
After a not-so-stellar service record might I say
warm finch
If my attitude towards it wasn´t obvious yet, I concur.
spring briar
Ok thanks this should make my laffey 100% historicaly accurate (except for the a...
Laffey in game is not DD-724
Rather the Benson class USS Laffey DD-549
manic latch
Is the kuznetsove the one got on fire at dockyard and eventually get scrapped or...
Thats Uss Bonhomme Richard as Mig said
She burned for days so nothing much was left
supple sandal
supple sandal
she was never set up for success
But hey
Missile
manic latch
she was never set up for success
As I said
She was a stopgap
Nuclear Ulyanovsk was the real plan
warm finch
But it wasn't. Meaning a ship already definitely not set up for success was now an astronomical unit from it.
manic latch
But it wasn't. Meaning a ship already definitely not set up for success was now ...
Yes carriers are expensive
warm finch
Yes carriers are expensive
The "overspending on your military pretty much non-stop right after a devastating war" didn´t help much I reckon
manic latch
The "overspending on your military pretty much non-stop right after a devastatin...
Not non stop, size were significant reduced for all vehicles
Soviet navy peaked at 1985 (1561 ships in total and the second largest in the world after the US Navy), the fleet of the Russian Federation gradually weakened in the 1990s and 2000s and decreased in number to 136 ships in total in 2010 year
X10 size reduction
warm finch
Soviet navy peaked at 1985 (1561 ships in total and the second largest in the wo...
This is a fault of all the large capacity shipyards being in Ukraine
Part of the reason on why the Kuznetsov is widely considered decrepit is the lack of a shipyard large enough to service her, until recently as you let me know.
manic latch
This is a fault of all the large capacity shipyards being in Ukraine
Uhh not all
For black sea yes
warm finch
Oh yes sorry, all the shipyards that do not freeze over
manic latch
Part of the reason on why the Kuznetsov is widely considered decrepit is the lac...
Yes her drydock used to be Nikolayev
She lost access to that
Only option was using a floating dock
Which caused to be most problematic on her when it sank from her weight
warm finch
I believe it was actually one of the pumps failing and the dry dock flooding
Wait shit that´s technically the same thing
supple sandal
You know
If I was Russia at that point I would rather leave Ukraine with all that weapons
Or sell it all
manic latch
Then Ukraine would sell all it to China later or sell it back to Russia to pay debts
supple sandal
Specifically the carrier
warm finch
Russian pride wouldn´t allow that, as a slav I have intimate understanding of this. None of us will let a grudge go unless circumstances call for it. We hold on to lost glory under the false pretense we´ll rise back to it one day.
And you don´t just see it with the Russians, you see it with the Poles, the Ukrainians and especially with all the ex-yugoslav states
strong plank
That depends on what you are talking about
Yeah I was referring to their doctrine
random trench
history channel
subtle prawn
manic latch
It's not
General Electric estimated its XA100 engine would increase the F-35’s range on internal fuel by 30 to 35 percent and thrust by 10 to 20 percent over F135
shrewd pecan
oh I’m posting that since I find it funny
That there’s ads for that in the DC metro
warm finch
General Electric estimated its XA100 engine would increase the F-35’s range on i...
From what I managed to get from the wiki on the damn thing, it´s designed as an upgrade for the F-35 with capability to be used in US sixth gen programs
Btw engine upgrades are the norm in US planes
manic latch
Btw engine upgrades are the norm in US planes
Planes*
warm finch
But that´s what I wrote?
random trench
Bro
random trench
It's not special to US planes
US planes on top
manic latch
Are you implying
The Air force with most money in the world makes the most engine upgrades?
Impressive
random trench
Are you implying
no im just saying that US jet aircraft are generally better than most others
they also happen to be the same airforce which got scared of a thing with big engines, then engineered something for no reason
so i mean do with that what you will
manic latch
Mochi
random trench
you summonedme
manic latch
I don't know why you have to mention US jets are superior with the concept of engine upgrades being possible with non US planes
random trench
idk man i got nothing else to do today
somber knoll
https://www.inquirer.com/business/tourism/battleship-new-jersey-teak-deck-replac...
That's more than 4 decades worth of wooden planking
warm finch
It's not special to US planes
Not exclusive, correct, but name a US plane and it probably had an engine upgrade. And I do not count technical upgrades where it´s the same engine just uprated or something like with the Russians. I mean whole new engines/engine upsizes.
manic latch
Not exclusive, correct, but name a US plane and it probably had an engine upgrad...
Mig are you baiting
Do you know "upgrading" engine is usually uprating it as well. Changing the engine is not a new concept special to US either
warm finch
How is saying that the US usually changes out the engine baiting?
An upgrade is defined by Oxford dictionary as "raise (something) to a higher standard, in particular improve (equipment or machinery) by adding or replacing components."
manic latch
You act like it's a special concept for US only
warm finch
An upgrade is defined by Oxford dictionary as "raise (something) to a higher sta...
adding or replacing
warm finch
You act like it's a special concept for US only
Do I?
The concept is not. But upgrading every planes engine like this is exclusive to the US, I think
Feel free to correct me.
warm finch
I do not see your problem with the statement, do you have evidence to the contrary?
frozen kestrel
Why does this remind me of the Combine train from Half-Life 2?
humble mulch
I do not see your problem with the statement, do you have evidence to the contra...
Given how many migs models are still in service I wouldn't call it an exclusively American thing (upgrading/retrofitting engines), but I also don't think the US has upgraded the engine in every plane they've used and in general all or nothing statements like that just cause issues 
warm finch
True enough but point is that the Americans really do ridiculously overspend
strong plank
they also happen to be the same airforce which got scared of a thing with big en...
The foxbat didn’t single-handedly cause the F-15 to exist
Yes it spurred a lot of its design decisions but the Air Force already knew it was going to need to design a new fighter
gloomy current
it changed the requirements of the new design
shrewd pecan
haughty osprey
The USAF was already planning on a new aircraft to start phasing out the F-4, the Foxbat simply made them change some of the requirements and provided a big publicity and funding boost.
There was also the Air Force picking the A-7 which meant they absolutely needed something for their air-superiority role
random trench
Yes it spurred a lot of its design decisions but the Air Force already knew it w...
This is a good statement
They needed something better than the F-4 phantom, which had a pretty damn horrible kill ratio and time to turn
strong plank
time to turn wasn't what hurt the phantom
the phantom was designed to intercept soviet bombers from a distance with missiles
strong plank
not contest a crowded airspace
random trench
And the star fighter wasn’t much better
The star fighter generally didn’t have a good reputation for safety
shrewd pecan
and that was down to pilot training more than anything
random trench
True
subtle prawn
What was wrong with the German usage of it anyways?
random trench
They used it wrong
shrewd pecan
if I remember correctly
it was the pilots not being used to its low speed performance
random trench
And also they tried to fly it a certain way iirc but I may be wrong
All I know is the F-15 and the F-18 come about because Robert McNamara was a dumb shit and tried to make aircraft that BOTH services could use
Which ultimately hurt the US military as a whole
Obviously that’s a grossly oversimplified version of the story but you get what I mean
shrewd pecan
"One contributing factor to this was the operational assignment of the F-104 in West German service: it was mainly used as a low-level fighter-bomber, as opposed to the original design of a high-speed, high-altitude fighter/interceptor. Furthermore, the installation of additional avionic equipment in the F-104G version, such as the inertial navigation system, added distraction for the pilot, as well as extra weight that further hampered the flying capabilities of the plane. In contemporary West German magazine articles highlighting the Starfighter safety problems, the aircraft was portrayed as "overburdened" with technology, which was considered a latent overstrain on the aircrews.[163]"
random trench
"One contributing factor to this was the operational assignment of the F-104 in ...
Why on gods green earth would you use a STARFIGHTER as a low level bomber
shrewd pecan
those didn't exist yet
random trench
They were in development
Weren’t they also the direct replacement for the Luftwaffe?
Like they replaced the star fighters
random trench
Okay yes they replaced them with phantoms
Then after the phantoms came the tornado
For some reason I’m thinking there was one European nation still using star fighters
Was it Italy?
For some reason I think Italy
shrewd pecan
the F-104s stayed in West German service till 87
random trench
Okay that explains it
random trench
Pain
shrewd pecan
not exactly sure why they lasted so long in Italian service since they had the ADV versions of the Tornado
but eh it was still a capable interceptor I suppose
grave ravine
They needed something better than the F-4 phantom, which had a pretty damn horri...
Phantoms performed fine in dogfights in Vietnam
The issue was poor C&C
random trench
The issue was poor C&C
That’s what I meant
Missile fights were great
Anything closer than missile range and the phantom sucked ass
grave ravine
North Vietnam had way better fighter vectoring
desert agate
that is a myth
grave ravine
For most of the war
random trench
No guns in the first few versions
desert agate
the issue was a lack of reliable missiles
random trench
Which I still don’t know why they did that
grave ravine
Anything closer than missile range and the phantom sucked ass
No even in turning dogfights Phantom performed quite well
random trench
the issue was a lack of reliable missiles
I crave the forbidden heat signature
desert agate
USN Phantoms, which notably didn't have guns, had an exceptional kill ration throughout the whole war
grave ravine
the issue was a lack of reliable missiles
That's true, but it also got resolved fairly early on
desert agate
primarily because they equipped AIM-9s whereas the USAF was using a far less capable and far less reliable missile
random trench
Idk I really just think the phantom was the ugly duckling
grave ravine
USN Phantoms, which notably didn't have guns, had an exceptional kill ration thr...
Mainly because the navy got way better C&C than the USAF did
random trench
And the Tomcat/F-15 was the golden children
grave ravine
Even after the USAF got Sidewinder
random trench
I’m more of a gulf war guy myself
grave ravine
It's notable that kill ratios totally flipped on their heads when Teaball went up
strong plank
primarily because they equipped AIM-9s whereas the USAF was using a far less cap...
Navy Fighter Weapons School helped as well
grave ravine
USAF Phantoms started going like 15 to 1 after Teaball
random trench
Was it the Mig-21 or the 17 that the phantom went up against
desert agate
i dont get why people mock the F-4s A2A performance which was pretty respectable throughout the whole conflict, when the USAFs CAS and bombing campaigns in Vietnam were so utterly atrocious
strong plank
Navy Fighter Weapons School helped as well
it was effective at teaching navy pilots how to make better use of their missiles in the kind of engagements they were getting into
grave ravine
i dont get why people mock the F-4s A2A performance which was pretty respectable...
People remembered Sabre going like 10 to 1, and were wondering why Phantoms was only doing 2 or 3 to 1
random trench
i dont get why people mock the F-4s A2A performance which was pretty respectable...
because ig the idea was the US was invincible?
idk
haughty osprey
The myth of PAVN aircraft superiority needs to die. The Fishbed was not some kind of particularly better platform, it was just intelligently deployed by the North Vietnamese as they adapted and launched attacks against bomb-loaded F-105s and other strike aircraft.
That and North Vietnam had a formidable network of ground-based radars and communications that knew when to send their fighters up against viable targets.
You have multiple cases during the war of F-4s showing up and fucking bitchslapping PAVN fighter units.
desert agate
7 years
11 planes
over 870 strikes
all to take out a bridge for all of barely a year
random trench
I guess the US's main problem wasn't the equipment but mainly strategy
grave ravine
Navy Fighter Weapons School helped as well
The impact of Top Gun is probably overblown, Red Baron found that after Falcon was ditched, basically every time Phantoms saw the enemy first they killed them
grave ravine
7 years
11 planes
over 870 strikes
all to take out a bridge for all of barely a ...
And we only took it out cuz TI came in clutch
desert agate
US airpower has a very respectable air combat record over Vietnam
A2G on the other hand...
random trench
US airpower has a very respectable air combat record over Vietnam
And civilian record
cough
strong plank
vietnam was also just
random trench
30,000–65,000.\
strong plank
not the type of war the US had anticipated having to fight
random trench
vietnam was also just
a war the us did not need to be in
Unironically the british and Japanese had a better time of dealing with Ho Chi Minh just after WW2 ended
then the french came
grave ravine
I mean we armed Ho Chi Minh during ww2
grave ravine
He originally looked to the US to guarantee Vietnamese independence
desert agate
Australian forces had performed exceptionally well in Vietnam thanks to having extensive counter insurgency experience in Borneo and Malaya, with many of the most senior officers having experience fighitng Japanese guerilla tactics in New Guinea towards the end of WW2, but were not deployed in the numbers necessary to make a major difference, combined with the US military throwing its diplomatic weight around, forcing Australian forces to effectively follow American practice
random trench
Australian forces had performed exceptionally well in Vietnam thanks to having e...
i was literally about to say this
the aussies were fucking amazing at jungle warfare
grave ravine
We could have told De Gaulle to fuck himself and forced France to give up their colonies
haughty osprey
The US threw its lot in with the French instead of backing Vietnamese independence
strong plank
everyone's gangster until the south koreans showed up
grave ravine
But we did not
random trench
Australian forces had performed exceptionally well in Vietnam thanks to having e...
fun fact, my grandpa fought in malaya during the malaya crisis
haughty osprey
And that was quite a bad decision in hindsight, although it was probably necessary considering the situation France was having post-WWII
random trench
he even had his medals displayed at the imperial war museum
desert agate
the mutual distrust between American and Australian forces prevented both sides from presenting their individual superiorities in various areas
random trench
the mutual distrust between American and Australian forces prevented both sides ...
which i still never understood
at least not in detail
desert agate
Australia was at the time still very close to the British and was very reluctant to completely shift its foreign, and defensive policies
and the Americans were unwilling to listen to a nation which they saw as a junior partner
random trench
i guess the whole imperialism thing was a major turn off for the US
random trench
and the Americans were unwilling to listen to a nation which they saw as a junio...
and this
strong plank
the US likes to assume they know best
grave ravine
i guess the whole imperialism thing was a major turn off for the US
Yet somehow we were fighting in Vietnam
strong plank
it's something still being grappled with to today
desert agate
both sides also had rather different objectives
random trench
my grandpa's unit in borneo
grave ravine
The one good thing is that the US and Vietnam have managed to reconcile today
desert agate
fundamentally they both wanted to stop the southern expansion of communism but while the US saw it as protecting their South Vietnamese allies, and thus prevented them from engaging with a more aggressive set of rules of engagement, Australia more saw it was protecting themselves, the homeland itself was at risk if communism came further South
strong plank
you also had the shift in US strategy from Westmoreland to Abrams
desert agate
this created many irreconcilable disagreements in operational planning that basically resulted in Australia being relegated to its own section of South Vietnam (which it fought in very well), while the Americans were fighting their own individual actions elsewhere
tough quail
The myth of PAVN aircraft superiority needs to die. The Fishbed was not some kin...
...?
who on gods green earth thinks fishbeds are better than phantoms
the ribbing the USAF gets is the fact fishbeds were able to do as much damage as they did despite being outdated
random trench
the ribbing the USAF gets is the fact fishbeds were able to do as much damage as...
which they really shouldn't have been able to do given the US's tech advantage
jesus i talk like english is my 2nd language
tough quail
yeah the fact the air war wasn't a complete massacre is the brow raising part
they're essentially an aircraft generation up and still frequently getting rolled by airborne rice farmers in soviet hand me downs for the first chunk of the war
random trench
they're essentially an aircraft generation up and still frequently getting rolle...
yurd
tough quail
questionable doctrine and training in comparison being to blame obviously though the F-4D existing didn't really help
desert agate
one of the biggest disadvantages the Americans had was their overly restrictive rules of engagement
tough quail
F-4D rolls "worst ordinance package ever"
Asked to leave Vietnamese airspace
(the rules of engagement thing is cope)
haughty osprey
You cracked a better one than I could
random trench
(the rules of engagement thing is cope)
i mean
tough quail
(they wouldn't even have a chance of hitting the chinese beyond identification range)
random trench
its big funny
tough quail
and likewise
they would not be able to hit the vietnamese
if anything it saved them from wasting missiles
random trench
fuck you i don't give a shit about your embassy in serbia, china
Im an f-117 nighthawk i literally do not give a shit
tough quail
like
at the range they arent allowed to fire
a sparrow is about as effective as an unguided rocket
well, vietnam era sparrow, they got better later
but you get my point
random trench
yurd
tough quail
they would've been uselessly sprayed at nothing
tough quail
thats fine tanks are dope
eternal veldt
horse, serious question
random trench
"Bro bro, look i put my ammo rack AROUND the crew how dope is that shit"
strong plank
I only found out last week that uh
random trench
the merkava has a mortar
Urban warfare package
desert agate
i would say why but id get banned
random trench
same reason why it has chains on the back
random trench
i would say why but id get banned
yurd
strong plank
didn't the mk1 have it tho
random trench
not anymore
desert agate
shouldnt be said
random trench
an unspoken thing we all know
desert agate
they know when you deleted something
random trench
i know
tough quail
merks are just heavily anti infantry
strong plank
was the idea that they'd cut down on manpower requirements by combining the tank and mortar team roles?
tough quail
hence the million machine guns
random trench
was the idea that they'd cut down on manpower requirements by combining the tank...
more destruction, in short
strong plank
I guess it makes some sense
random trench
the merkarva was originally designed with more urban combat in mind
though thats later versions
the earlier ones idk
tough quail
Or the bulldog for that matter
gimme a sec to confirm I'm remembering right
strong plank
weren't they often used hull-down in defensive positions
hence the hatch at the back
random trench
weren't they often used hull-down in defensive positions
iirc i haven't seen merkarvas used in large quantities, like pitched battle for example
strong plank
so that it'd be easier to keep them stocked up on shells
eternal veldt
The hatch is for the ammo to be continued to be loaded if they're dug down, yes
or, if the situation demands it, medevac
strong plank
I guess a mortar is kinda handy if you're already dug down
eternal veldt
certainly not as an IFV as the IDF portrayed it, because it's fucking awful
random trench
yeah the israelis are a bit
strange when it comes to tank design
great in terms of tank usage, but
strong plank
same reason why it has chains on the back
chains are to cover up a spot on the back of the turret
prevent it from being a shot trap iirc
eternal veldt
Chains are used to detonate/disrupt HEAT rounds
useful against something like an RPG
autumn sorrel
https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-family-guy-vietnam-undefeated-gif-10282031
That’s actually very distasteful to mock the dead that way
strong plank
strong plank
family guy actually
random trench
just say south park
eternal veldt
I love racism and stereotypes ™️
tough quail
Why the funny muzzle brake on the eggs?
As I understand it, aside from the obvious recoil reduction, it's shaped like that to aggressively redirect the gas to the sides out of the way of the sights and to avoid kicking dirt up in the way of the gunner too
tough quail
slat armor is incredibly aesthetic
eternal veldt
a bit odd that it's not continued then - maybe just fume extractors solving the issue entirely
tough quail
iirc yeah they just streamlined it
autumn sorrel
slat armor is incredibly aesthetic
I don’t really like slat that much, I understand it effectiveness but don’t like it
strong plank
just a giant block
tough quail
though some times the US just drops good ideas for a while
shrewd pecan
**fuck you i don't give a shit about your embassy in serbia, china**
Embassy was a B-2
eternal veldt
The M48 doesn't appeal to me visually, M60A1 and M103 are alright for me
tough quail
like M4s having cool proto stabilizers, then the US becoming the latest adopter of all for full stabilizers
manic latch
**Im an f-117 nighthawk i literally do not give a shit**
It's a B-2, F-117 was famous for being shot down by Serbia
tough quail
it's very strange
shrewd pecan
Serbia was also famous
for losing that war
and you know
being one of Europe's last Fascist states
also genocide that was a major one
eternal veldt
IIRC it's more that the Pershing's 90mm gun is too heavy for the stabilizer
strong plank
you know there's something strangely aesthetic about the stryker
tough quail
tato that was the like, tiniest slither of bait
eternal veldt
They had it on the T25 prototype IIRC
tough quail
c'mon
strong plank
like the hull is so geometric, and then you've got all the equipment slapped on
maiden citrus
if you let people get away with bait too much, people might believe it
tough quail
IIRC it's more that the Pershing's 90mm gun is too heavy for the stabilizer
they didn't get another one going until like, half way into the m60s lifetime though
it's bizarre
strong plank
the comically large air conditioning unit
tough quail
if you let people get away with bait too much, people might believe it
...they did shoot one down though
maiden citrus
it keeps me cool, while engine keeps hot dog warm
shrewd pecan
one F-117 got damaged
autumn sorrel
also genocide that was a major one
Honestly, I blame Tito. Dude is GOAT but he really have a illusion that somehow Balkans won’t kill each other without a Iron Fist rule after he die.
shrewd pecan
other got shot down
eternal veldt
Maybe a belief that it couldn't be sufficiently stabilized
eternal veldt
just like the whole premise of the Strv 103
manic latch
for losing that war
Wonder why 
tough quail
they saw the really early ones kinda sucked then didn't bother
strong plank
the
the laser shorad stryker
random trench
Wonder why <:catathome:1123623565057609768>
I mean they kind of did it to themselves
tough quail
until basically all of NATO had them working
autumn sorrel
the
the laser shorad stryker
ECM where
shrewd pecan
Wonder why <:catathome:1123623565057609768>
they did have it coming
tough quail
the
the laser shorad stryker
I love metal gear
random trench
Like how on earth do you suddenly expect to not lose to nato
manic latch
What's the last war US fought alone
tough quail
uhhh
autumn sorrel
What's the last war US fought alone
Grenada
shrewd pecan
we had
manic latch
Ah
maiden citrus
this one's easy
strong plank
god this beautiful thumbnail
shrewd pecan
a lot of Latin American states
maiden citrus
the us civil war duh
shrewd pecan
with us in Grenada
strong plank
look at it go
manic latch
the us civil war duh
France: Oi
tough quail
weeeee!
strong plank
I can hear the extra maintenance time
maiden citrus
France: Oi
that's the revolutionary war
tough quail
didn't France kinda get involved in both
autumn sorrel
look at it go
Only need that video of 4 dude inside
tough quail
just not as much
maiden citrus
many nations tried to soft influence the latter
eternal veldt
Do the confederates getting boats from the UK count as "fighting alone"
manic latch
Emperor Napoleon III realized that a war with the United States without allies "would spell disaster" for France.[1] However, the textile industry used cotton, and Napoleon had sent an army to control Mexico, which could be greatly aided by the Confederacy. At the same time, other French political leaders, such as Foreign Minister Édouard Thouvenel, supported the United States
eternal veldt
albeit illegally
tough quail
didn't the tsar iirc tell everyone to fuck off
manic latch
Tsar send navy ye
strong plank
those 3 australian dudes that snuck aboard a confederate ship:
tough quail
which is incredibly dope
strong plank
yeah I was about to say
autumn sorrel
many nations tried to soft influence the latter
Brit selling tons of guns to the CSA while Union agent being dumbass and buy poorly manufactured Enfield
strong plank
Just Cause was probably the last one the US fought alone
manic latch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Panama
Bruh
Shit why discord
Oh nvm
manic latch
The two Russian navy expeditions to North America during the U.S. Civil War, one to the West Coast and another to the East Coast, and the Kalevala expedition in 1861-1862 were the only concrete foreign military support received by President Abraham Lincoln and the Union Army during the course of the entire war,
shrewd pecan
since they don't make sense to do
manic latch
The two Russian navy expeditions to North America during the U.S. Civil War, one...
Oh wow
tough quail
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1935/may/visit-russian-squadrons-1863
broke: cold war
bespoke:
autumn sorrel
since they don't make sense to do
Optics doesn’t look good
shrewd pecan
it goes against the US's foreign policy aims
eternal veldt
true bespoke is Zhukov and Eisenhower 
tough quail
true bespoke is Zhukov and Eisenhower <:MurmWat:839635014256951296>
we were so close
strong plank
until it turned out that the intel agencies fucked up
manic latch
supple sandal
solo interventions anymore
Wait
manic latch
"I will give you coke"
autumn sorrel
we were so close
I love how Zhukov was so sure of his position and prestige that he genuinely don’t give a fuck.
supple sandal
Didn't the last one just ended last year?
strong plank
iraq wasn't solo
shrewd pecan
Afghanistan was a multi national operation
autumn sorrel
Didn't the last one just ended last year?
Nah, new war coming soon
shrewd pecan
same with Iraq
strong plank
nor was afghanistan
tough quail
I love how Zhukov was so sure of his position and prestige that he genuinely don...
yeah because he's fucking zhukov
he could pretty much slap stalins head off his shoulders with his dick after the war with germany ended
autumn sorrel
yeah because he's fucking zhukov
Even the supposed comedic depiction of him is a dump down version of how chad he was
manic latch
shrewd pecan
Canada, UK, Australia and local forces all partook in the 2001 invasion
supple sandal
https://tenor.com/view/marshall-zhukov-death-of-stalin-marshall-zhukov-field-gif...
Play the music
shrewd pecan
and plenty of other countries joined in for anti insurgency operations
autumn sorrel
he could pretty much slap stalins head off his shoulders with his dick after the...
“I fucked Germany…” such a good line
strong plank
why are there no pictures of ACVs next to strykers
supple sandal
Why it isn't called Striker
autumn sorrel
https://tenor.com/view/marshall-zhukov-death-of-stalin-marshall-zhukov-field-gif...
The Swag of that man
supple sandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
K
shrewd pecan
Stryker is a name
tough quail
why does russia name everything after the most random shit?
supple sandal
Me looking at new startup companies that have "Y" instead of "I"
tough quail
they have a 240mm siege mortar
manic latch
why does russia name everything after the most random shit?
Uss Enterprise is not random
tough quail
they named it tulip
autumn sorrel
why does russia name everything after the most random shit?
All theirs ship are “Admiral…” something
tough quail
because who gives a fuck
manic latch
strong plank
actually enterprise is cool
autumn sorrel
they named it tulip
Come now, name a instrument of death after Flower is a Russian tradition
supple sandal
they named it tulip
The more deadly the weapon is the more sweet sounding it name is
strong plank
all the early carriers after langley were given revolutionary war names
manic latch
they named it tulip
You didn't realise artillery is called flowers. 203mm is Pion (Peony)
tough quail
what the fuck does manul mean again
tough quail
You didn't realise artillery is called flowers. 203mm is Pion (Peony)
oh no i do
its just weird
supple sandal
Like "Grandma" or whatever "Katyusha" is
shrewd pecan
somewhere out there
autumn sorrel
You didn't realise artillery is called flowers. 203mm is Pion (Peony)
Pion 
, only need better mobility, hydraulic system and gun ramming, and it will be the best SPG again.
shrewd pecan
there is a civilian owned Pion
manic latch
Tunguska is better than Pantsir as name ngl
supple sandal
Note here that I don't remember what weapon is called "Grandma" in Russia
dusty kraken
imagine naming your AA pants bruh
desert agate
Shame about the warcrimes cos Australian troops looked dope in Afghanistan
manic latch
It means Carapece
autumn sorrel
Shame about the warcrimes cos Australian troops looked dope in Afghanistan
LRRP jeep?
strong plank
say what you will about the GWOT
tough quail
Tunguska is better than Pantsir as name ngl
well yeah its fucking tunguska
they kinda like
strong plank
the drip was immaculate
tough quail
capped out on AA naming there
strong plank
except ucp fuck that shit
autumn sorrel
capped out on AA naming there
“Tor”, “Kub”
desert agate
LRRP jeep?
LRPV
shrewd pecan
tough quail
i swear UCP is like
manic latch
Wish Tor was Thor
tough quail
actual trolling
desert agate
Based on the Land Rover
strong plank
I mean it's a textbook tale of an ambituous program failing
manic latch
Jeep is only good in a base
strong plank
the plan was to develop a 'bank' of digitally-generated camo patterns for different environments
autumn sorrel
Death traps
Jeep are fine in open terrain, kinda nightmare in mountain terrain
strong plank
except funding got cut
manic latch
Mine? Dead
Bullet? Dead
Mud? Dead
strong plank
so they decided to make one for all
strong plank
...which didn't work in any environment
tough quail
my favorite weird russian colloquialism is that thermobarics count as incendiaries
i.e
autumn sorrel
Mine? Dead
Bullet? Dead
Mud? Dead
Chadian would like a word
tough quail
TOS is literally "heavy flamethrower system"
manic latch
my favorite weird russian colloquialism is that thermobarics count as incendiari...
Tos is called flamethrower ye
tough quail
here's your flamethrower toot toot
supple sandal
I still not sure is the Tunguska is named after the location or the event
desert agate
I'll take a Hilux or a Navara any day
tough quail
I still not sure is the Tunguska is named after the location or the event
i think its a case of "both"
autumn sorrel
I'll take a Hilux or a Navara any day
Hilux, those thing won’t die
desert agate
Navs are better
tough quail
also im just sending this one because it looks cool
desert agate
They just break easier
manic latch
here's your flamethrower toot toot
I prefer Tos-2, it gets the needed mobility
tough quail
remember to not stand behind your local MRLS
supple sandal
also im just sending this one because it looks cool
How long is the the reload on this one
manic latch
I prefer Tos-2, it gets the needed mobility
- faster reload
grave ravine
desert agate
tough quail
god i dont even want to know what the hell reloading these is like
autumn sorrel
I prefer Tos-2, it gets the needed mobility
Better FCS?
grave ravine
god i dont even want to know what the hell reloading these is like
They have special reloading vehicles with cranes and crap
tough quail
ye ofc
autumn sorrel
Ngl, it look better than most cage field modifications
manic latch
Better FCS?
It is equipped with a more powerful TBS-M3 rocket and its own crane. It has also an increased range
You don't need precision for Tos lmao
tough quail
its just a cute house now
autumn sorrel
It is equipped with a more powerful TBS-M3 rocket and its own crane. It has also...
Man, TOS-1 range is bad
desert agate
Unironically seaplanes offer a critical capability that militaries cannot afford to ignore
manic latch
Her spread is the point
grave ravine
Ngl, it look better than most cage field modifications
Looks better, but frankly it's significantly less useful
tough quail
Unironically seaplanes offer a critical capability that militaries cannot afford...
correct
strong plank
holy shit this is from my dad's op
manic latch
Hell it's better against drone drops
tough quail
thats rad
supple sandal
Unironically seaplanes offer a critical capability that militaries cannot afford...
Then we launched satellite with cameras
strong plank
the SEALs and the Grom in 2003
grave ravine
Since I doubt TOS has the roof protection to survive the remnants of a heat warhead the way a tank does
autumn sorrel
Looks better, but frankly it's significantly less useful
Yeah, but when a TOS is down the range, I will get the hell out
desert agate
Since I can be asked repeating myself, here's what I said in another server
manic latch
Since I doubt TOS has the roof protection to survive the remnants of a heat warh...
It's for drone drops lad not ATGM why people always think ATGMS 
desert agate
Then we launched satellite with cameras
I'd like to see a satellite perform ASW or Search and Rescue
grave ravine
It's for drone drops lad not ATGM why people always think ATGMS <a:psycho:105180...
No IK, most drone grenades are heat though
supple sandal
Oh that
tough quail
Japan has seaplanes still? 
dusty kraken
make jet seaplanes real again
strong plank
no no but Hit, A2/AD makes them untenable
which means....
we need stealth seaplanes
supple sandal
I thought you talking about recon role only
tough quail
seaplanes are good because they do tons of stuff
grave ravine
The cope cage on a normal tank probably will stop drone grenades, on TOS though it's likely even grenades that are damaged could still kill the system
desert agate
no no but Hit, A2/AD makes them untenable
It really doesnt
strong plank
It really doesnt
that's mostly a joke
desert agate
Since they allow dispersion on a level that conventional ASW assets cannot achieve
tough quail
The cope cage on a normal tank probably will stop drone grenades, on TOS though ...
worth a shot tbh
eternal veldt
Seaplanes are..interesting
tough quail
it's a dirt cheap modification
autumn sorrel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-10
Bring back the Erkoplan
tough quail
might as well give it a whack on the off chance it works
grave ravine
Yeah
eternal veldt
Hailed as the aircraft of tomorrow back then when there arent that many airfields
desert agate
The P-8 is exceptional but needs perfect airfields, and perfect airfields will be hard to find
strong plank
I need to ask my dad if he's got any pictures from his deployments
grave ravine
The guys in The Drydock think US-2 isn't very useful
strong plank
he's told me he's got one when his group went through the Minsk mid-scrapping
desert agate
There's been talk of RAAF buying US-2s but given Japan's export policies it may be difficult
strong plank
posing in front of the island and everything
grave ravine
I don't really know enough about it to comment
eternal veldt
Isnt there that one
desert agate
The guys in The Drydock think US-2 isn't very useful
US-2 specifically may not be exceptional but the capability of flying boats as ASW assets is unrivalled
desert agate
Given that just about every airfield in the Indo Pacific will be wiped out in hours of any SCS conflict, P-8s will have a very hard time operating from usable airfields
strong plank
speaking of, Hit, I saw Australia just put out this year's Defense Strategic Review
manic latch
Soyuz Jumpscare
strong plank
was giving it a read at work earlier
desert agate
And satellite recon and bombardments will create a very difficult position for P-8 operations
desert agate
speaking of, Hit, I saw Australia just put out this year's Defense Strategic Rev...
Came out months ago
strong plank
ah
desert agate
Navy review is the next big thing
strong plank
our australia guy was reading through it so I assumed it was new
supple sandal
desert agate
Hopefully sooner rather than later since Hunter class is looking increasingly like a failure
desert agate
our australia guy was reading through it so I assumed it was new
It's pretty good, outlines a lot of stuff I've been saying for some time
Government accepted or accepted in principle most recommendations
autumn sorrel
And there is a model for it on tabletop
supple sandal
Holy fuck shit
desert agate
I'm very excited for LCM and LCH
supple sandal
Epic
desert agate
Prototype for LCM is down at Henderson rn
Shipyards are ramping up
Navy needs its review soon though
autumn sorrel
Holy fuck shit
And there is even a bigger one
manic latch
Ah the carrier
supple sandal
I don't mind rts game with this since I know damn well that I can't play table top
manic latch
Can't wait for her in war thunder
desert agate
But yeah defs read the DSR it's very interesting and informative @strong plank
random trench
I’m currently waiting on Challenger 3 and/or KP51 Panther tank
supple sandal
Can't wait for her in war thunder
Warthunder ships don't have guided missile I think
random trench
My love of tanks shows through
manic latch
I’m currently waiting on Challenger 3 and/or KP51 Panther tank
Germany should stop naming their tanks after cats
random trench
Also I think it’s really funny that the Germans made another panther
tough quail
im mostly waiting for WT to start doing stupid prototype shit when they run out of new tanks
autumn sorrel
Germany should stop naming their tanks after cats
Katze when
supple sandal
Germany should stop naming their tanks after cats
Mouse
Goliath
random trench
Atp just remake the WW2 tanks
manic latch
Yes that gone so well
grave ravine
I’m currently waiting on Challenger 3 and/or KP51 Panther tank
Challenger 3 is backed by a govt, it is coming. Panther is just a tech demo
strong plank
But yeah defs read the DSR it's very interesting and informative <@5511682737529...
Will do
random trench
Challenger 3 is backed by a govt, it is coming. Panther is just a tech demo
Unfortunately
I mean it’s by Rheinmetal iirc so it Def has some credibility
But most likely not all
tough quail
isnt rheinmetall trying to peddle panthers off on everyone under the sun
its just nobody wants to buy it
manic latch
They do
supple sandal
I guess naming tank mouse and Goliath is German humor
random trench
Yes
grave ravine
isnt rheinmetall trying to peddle panthers off on everyone under the sun
Yeah, because they were being sidelined by KNDS in MGCS
grave ravine
But they managed to strongarm the German govt in putting them in MGCS, which has caused that program to stall
random trench
grave ravine
Classic European procurement moment
tough quail
Yeah, because they were being sidelined by KNDS in MGCS
there's a reason there's two Ls in Rheinmetall
random trench
Which is fucking ugly
strong plank
btw @shrewd pecan apparently the Army Science Board is putting out another study on a future M1-follow-on tank
strong plank
will let you know when it drops
random trench
It has fucking no turret armour
manic latch
btw <@167796048574545920> apparently the Army Science Board is putting out anoth...
Again huh
shrewd pecan
👁️ AMERICAN K2 EQUIVALENT
random trench
Though tbf not that it needs it if the Personal defence works well
manic latch
How many Abrams replacement projects will be created and die
tough quail
the french is the redeeming part
grave ravine
That's EMBT, a tech demonstrator from KNDS, which is probably tangentially related to what MGCS will end up being, but is not MGCS
tough quail
Though tbf not that it needs it if the Personal defence works well
(it does)
manic latch
How many Abrams replacement projects will be created and die
Like I don't get what US wants from next tank
tough quail
APS will absolutely never replace bog standard armor
supple sandal
Is that supposed to take a hit in the turret?
random trench
Is that supposed to take a hit in the turret?
Nothing is supposed to take a hit to the turret
strong plank
Like I don't get what US wants from next tank
no this is the ASB
grave ravine
How many Abrams replacement projects will be created and die
It's just a study, not an actual replacement program
strong plank
they're basically a thinktank for the army
manic latch
Ah
strong plank
it's a study of what requirements an M1 replacement would need
grave ravine
Like I don't get what US wants from next tank
The US Army doesn't either, it's why they keep doing these studies
supple sandal
Nothing is *supposed* to take a hit to the turret
The KV-2 when no one have a good enough gun:
tough quail
never do fucking anything like this
strong plank
I may or may not be directly related to a board member
grave ravine
look at the engine
Too late, ACE will be on everything hehehe
tough quail
the neo abrams tech demo pivoting from an ancient turbine to some chieftain level garbage is
baffling
mmm mmyaes lets make an american 5TDF
strong plank
The thought process is to increase concealment
tough quail
the style of engine that made every soviet mechanic want to dome themselves every time they woke up in the morning
random trench
Yeah idk why they thought that was a good idea
grave ravine
Memes
shrewd pecan
thought Abrams X just had a diesel engine
grave ravine
But also power density
random trench
Though my favourite tank will still always be the Challenger
grave ravine
thought Abrams X just had a diesel engine
It's got an opposed piston diesel
strong plank
thought Abrams X just had a diesel engine
Diesel that can power a battery
shrewd pecan
ah
supple sandal
So we wouldn't seeing the new Abrams for the next 10 years or not at all?
strong plank
which the tank can run off of
tough quail
yeah it's basically an american 5TDF
grave ravine
It's also hybrid electric
tough quail
and the 5TDF is fucking horrendous
random trench
So we wouldn't seeing the new Abrams for the next 10 years or not at all?
They’ll probably work on it, as the US does
The US has a habit of being ahead
Because of some unfounded concern about something
random trench
Such as Cough cough hypersonic missiles
manic latch
In 1959, the Leyland L60 19 L (1,159 cu in) six-cylinder diesel engine was introduced. The L60 was produced in the United Kingdom for use in the Chieftain tank. The Soviet T-64 tank, produced from 1963-1987, also used an opposed-piston diesel engine 5TDF
grave ravine
So we wouldn't seeing the new Abrams for the next 10 years or not at all?
No we wont
The US is still in the wooly ideas phase
shrewd pecan
abrams still has a lot of life left in her
manic latch
Because of some unfounded concern about something
Unfounded?
strong plank
The idea behind diesel-electric is that you can stay concealed and run off the battery
supple sandal
Such as *Cough* *cough* hypersonic missiles
I would concern if it actually hypersonic and can maneuver mid fly at that speed
tough quail
The US has a habit of being ahead
you haven't really been following US tank development for very long then because they kind of wobbled around for the whole 1944-mid 1980ish stretch
strong plank
Since any tank that can be spotted can be killed
tough quail
the diesel-electric idea is fine
the specific kind of diesel is like
the height of hubris
shrewd pecan
hybrid abrams
supple sandal
Unfounded?
Mig 25
strong plank
actually horse I’d unironically recommend giving the first report a read
tough quail
the hybrid idea is one i like
tough quail
just dont make it a chieftain hell diesel
strong plank
It explains a lot of the choices that went into Abrams X
grave ravine
actually horse I’d unironically recommend giving the first report a read
Which report?
supple sandal
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Range_Hypersonic_Weapon
When talking about concerns I talking about Russia equipments
tough quail
unless they found some kind of special sauce opposed-piston diesels are like
warcrimes upon mechanics
strong plank
^
tough quail
ill give it a look in the morning
manic latch
When talking about concerns I talking about Russia equipments
Zircon can change course irrc
tough quail
im about to sleep
the main takeaway from the abrams x memery is
however
autocannons are based
put them on your tanks
manic latch
There is a reason US wants hypersonic defense. Since China also has DF smh I forget the number
strong plank
all this talk about hypersonics has made one thing clear