history

[fierce sparrow]

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=725BIb0dtrQ

[autumn sorrel]

I know that IJN doctrine dictate that they carry additional torp to reload after firing, what about USN, RN and Kriegsmarine?

[desert agate]

USN destroyers carried reloads

well some did

Benson had a limited reload

Tribals also had limited reloads

those circle bits are where they were kept

not sure about kreigsmarine but i dont believe they made a habit of it

[autumn sorrel]

[heavy bay]

some french cruisers had torp reloads

[spring briar]

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/K3mHCztiSs4

[manic latch]

@_undefined_n#0000

We lost Undef @humble mulch

I think he nuked his discord account after Hindenburg incident

I shall post RM pictures to honor him

[chilly osprey]

What happened?

[manic latch]

Good ol Hindenburg is the new DR

Italy, Losing the chance of Capitani Romani class of being UR, and having few but barely known designs as possible UR chance, had only PR collabs to get a rainbow tier

Which was well, taken by Hindenburg

And Undef I guess just left the internet

Maybe a break or longer, nobody knows

You are our only Italian expert now Phon

[tough quail]

he's taking a break

he didn't gib his account

[manic latch]

Good

[tough quail]

now watch that the next dr is napoli

[fierce sparrow]

Let's not discuss about the Hindenberg reveal thing.

I think we've seen enough...

[eternal veldt]

Good meme

[wintry moat]

I know someone who would lose their mind for that

[maiden citrus]

he will be back, to once again lead the glorious murm

[manic latch]

[pallid grove]

To the wrong shore, came the world war...

[mellow breach]

does anyone know what the historically accurate main gun is for battle monitors

[chilly osprey]

Depends on the era and navy

[eternal veldt]

Purple British 381mm is the closest, if you are referring to the ones we have.

[runic prairie]

We lost a real one.

[limber dune]

KM destroyers carried a half reload, although there methods for reload were not as refined as IJN destroyers and it was generally more difficult to perform.

[eternal veldt]

Japanese reloads take up to 30 minutes, per memory.

The position of the forward reload tubes were also unsatisfactory, and had to be relocated on the Asashio>Kagero transition.

And finally, just generally straight up hazardous because of obvious reasons.

[alpine onyx]

Depended on the ship. Eugen is well documented, and had 22 torpedoes on deck (12 in the tubes, 10 in boxes), and then a non specified amount of internally stored torpedoes

[limber dune]

The Japanese also experimented with assisted torpedo reloading on the first two Hatsuharu-class. Iirc it significantly cut down the amount of time required for torpedo reloads. The system was removed after the substantial rebuild and subsequent Hatsuharu-class never had the system mounted.

[manic latch]

Spon

I heard HMAS Otama is on fire at Henderson

Is it true

[desert agate]

uh

lemme climb on my roof and check

there is a fire in henderson

hard to say if it's Otama herself because I dont know exactly where she is on site

but i dont think theres much of her left anyway

ill let you know what comes of it later because i cant be assed driving all the way down there

its like an hour a way and im lazy

[tribal mortar]

City of what

[desert agate]

Cockburn

Pronounced co-burn

It's an old timey colonial era name

[tribal mortar]

Ah ok

[somber knoll]

He also left the murm server

[manic latch]

Thanks

[somber knoll]

wait wrong photo

[chilly osprey]

Gorizia

[fervent wyvern]

history people
analysis pls

[thorn trail]

1st is Roon gun but just
2nd is the purple triple 406 we have

That's all I know

[fervent wyvern]

[ornate wind]

5th one is a Richelieu gun but in a triple turret

[grave ravine]

I'm guessing the third gun is this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_5_15_cm_AA_gun

[ornate wind]

Nah, that’s an army gun, the 150 here is a naval dp gun in a triple turret

[thorn trail]

Because the gun in WoWs is the army gun

there is not type 5 150mm naval gun

WoWs Shimanto uses that gun

[ornate wind]

Huh, alright

[desert agate]

yeah Shimanto is like

what if navy but army gun

certifiably braindead

[humble mulch]

Yeah was gonna say

Very interesting idea to say the least

wonder if she'll hate Mogami

[thorn trail]

Ah yes let's ask the army for their gun to use in our ships. It's not like we just traded assassinations with them in the past few decades

[grave ravine]

Ignoring the fact that the Army also literally only made 2 of the guns

[desert agate]

yeah but bro they can totally fit them on a cruiser totally a valid proposal that would have been seriously considered

[molten karma]

I love that not only did they decide that the japanese navy could have somehow obtained weapons from the japanese army with their consent, but that they also would have made little to no effort to try and rework them into actually usable naval guns as opposed to just sticking them on a hull unmodified and seeing what came out of it

truly a wargaming moment

[desert agate]

i mean as we all know, land based AA guns are well known for their capability as naval weapons

[molten karma]

on par with suggesting a Soviet unbuilt cruiser design could somehow make its way into the Chinese navy

[desert agate]

sea spray? salt water degredation? never heard of it

[manic latch]

Mark 6..

Uh Kearsarge is announced?

[manic latch]

No its gold version

406mm mark 6 improved

Its likely for Kearsarge

[thorn trail]

Yeah I just said it's related to the purple 406mm we have

And yeah i know she uses the same guns as NC

[manic latch]

And SD

[grave ravine]

Lastly Im pretty sure the 4th gun is just the 15cm German Cruiser gun in a twin turret

[fervent wyvern]

[manic latch]

It's for the Felix

[grave ravine]

yeah, but Im pretty sure the guns Weegee used are literally just the cruiser guns

in new twin turrets

[autumn sorrel]

I think someone did the trans and said that Felix use TbtSK C/42T

So Felix have CL gun slot

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_cm_SK_C/25

They are

[autumn sorrel]

Wonder which gun will be rainbow

My bet on Roon gun kai

[thorn trail]

it is that

it says in the pic there that it's the UR gear

[autumn sorrel]

Oh, I didn't notice the "UR"

[manic latch]

Man really wanted a Soviet cruiser

Maybe next year

Donskoi could be great

Super Steroid Chapayev/Sverdlov design with 12 180mm

[autumn sorrel]

Isn't Kursk supposed to be design "X"

[manic latch]

She is

That's why she has light armor as heavy cruiser

And she launches 2 mini subs and Kor-2 spotter planes

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/I9kuUGjmiBg

[autumn sorrel]

I remember that plane, Beriev basically bet his life and all of his bureau future on that plane and it somewhat succeed

[eternal veldt]

@manic latch anything else to add?

Not possible to actually talk about how excited Edison and Roosevelt is for the monster. More focused on shitting on Carp and his fuckfest.

As it turns out, packing 10+ pages worth of info from 3 different books is hard.

[manic latch]

You can add this funny quote which is the main reason Kearsarge become this

Molotov's brother in law, Sam Carp, who set up a company in New York to buy US technology. Made contacts with suppliers

"Carp requested not only guns, armour and turbines BUT also drawings for and finished examples of 16 inch gun battleships. With NO LIMIT IN SIZE, that will be " More modern and up to date and better than anything now afloat, designed, or contemplated"

[eternal veldt]

I'd add that, but Warship 1981 says slightly otherwise.

[manic latch]

Does it say Soviets wanted 35k

[eternal veldt]

Basically, 16-inch guns, 16-inch armour, at least above 35k, and at least 30 knots.

[manic latch]

Since this quote does explain why design went over +70k

[eternal veldt]

This was what was presented to Gibbs, versus the 35k given to the other two shipyards.

I genuinely wanted to add Carp has no idea what "14-inch" , "35,000 tons", or "fire control" means.

[manic latch]

Either Carb forgot about 35k limit, or Gibbs ignored it then

[eternal veldt]

But again, no space.

[thorn trail]

What irl hull closely resembles Kearsarge's hull

[eternal veldt]

no, Carp specifically issued more than 35k tons

How and why they do it is ???

[manic latch]

Ah

[eternal veldt]

It's not a converted hull. It's entirely original.

[thorn trail]

Ah

[eternal veldt]

See the right side caption.

"I will build a ship that basically ignores all your requirements because this is what the perfect battleship looks in my mind - even though I have never designed a battleship before!"

[manic latch]

Real purpose of getting a 35k ish with 406mm gun BB from US was actually getting the know how and technology for construction of Soyuz, same reason they wanted best turbines for US build destroyer

Or 5/38s guns

[eternal veldt]

at least Gibbs and Cox gave a good looking DD design

never went through, of course....

[manic latch]

" Since it is now clear that we will not receive a universal gun (5 inch) from the Americans, create a special bureau for the design of a 130-mm universal guns (Udaloi's 130mm/55), based on the Design Bureau of the NKVD LO, with the participation of the NKVMF, NKV and NKSP...
 Since in this respect we are far behind and this gun would automatically solve the problem of large-caliber anti-aircraft artillery for the Red Army and the VMF - set as a priority, by a special resolution of the CO"

So briefly what Soviets wanted most from Americans were

5/38
Boilers
Machinery

Since they believed US was much above that area compared to everyone else

While GIBS BB would give Armor and guns

[thorn trail]

Wait what did this BBVs armor scheme look like

[eternal veldt]

We don't know

[thorn trail]

I am curious what the armor scheme would have been

[subtle prawn]

Tell me about it

[thorn trail]

wait

ALL DESIGNS WERE BBVs?!?!?1

wtf

[manic latch]

No

Design D is normal

[lime belfry]

BBV was kinda a shitty concept

But cool af tho

[manic latch]

Design D

10 406mm

No planes

[autumn sorrel]

Aft quad

[manic latch]

Yes

Quad 406mm

[autumn sorrel]

I am trying to understand the rationale behind that

[thorn trail]

also lol at the 34kt speed

what the fuck

[manic latch]

It has 6 shafts

[thorn trail]

Huh

still wtf was Gibbs smoking

in making this

[spring briar]

Designs by the utterly deranged

[manic latch]

First Harbin (variant of MK-6) now Kearsarge (Project 1058),
Manjuu be teasing me by being so close to Soviets but not adding them directly at same time

At least there is Chkalov, Project71B

[manic latch]

Should have bought from French

If you guys weren't busy with your own

Couldn't finish those in time either

[spring briar]

[autumn sorrel]

So Soviet Richie?

[manic latch]

On of the choices

It has Soviet 130mm

[autumn sorrel]

Look sensible

[lime belfry]

U gotta smoke drugs to design ships

Everyone knows that

[autumn sorrel]

Fischer take the entire RN stock for his Large Light Cruiser

[lime belfry]

Large light cruiser with 457mm gun is beautiful

[manic latch]

@spring briar @tough quail

[autumn sorrel]

What is that?

Wait, is that Gangut class refit?

[eternal veldt]

... I disagree.

[autumn sorrel]

It is Gangut, oh god

[eternal veldt]

these take the cake from the RN.

Fisher doesn't have aviation to consider back then, to an extent.

[autumn sorrel]

With Brit, eccentric and madness have a very thin line

[tough quail]

legendary

[obsidian bison]

u know what the game needs, hms incomparable

20 inch guns

[spring briar]

I want him

But the guns would likely be removed

[rapid junco]

Riche, do you have any info on the Belgian merchant navy during the war? (WWII)

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.f35.com/f35/news-and-features/lockheed-martin-to-finish-1000-F35-by-end-of-year.html

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/f-35-production-set-156-per-year-until-completion/

[spring briar]

Not much

[rapid junco]

Just saying because we had a couple of Belgian ships around here in South america

For example
This tanker
Motorcarline

She was almost torpedoed by U-154
Prevented by a B-18 of our Air Force

[shrewd pecan]

the arma promotional images

these are actually nuts

[grave ravine]

IMO third one looks a bit worse than the rest

[autumn sorrel]

Would love to see VDV with 6B3 vest

[manic latch]

Doubt F35 will ever have this layout

[chilly osprey]

That is an ungodly amount of AAM's

Piss off, autocorrect

[manic latch]

Can be more once they make bays take 3 instead 2

[shrewd pecan]

the new pylons already out for 6 in the internal bays over 4

beyond that 12 AMRAAMs isn't really that crazy of a loadout

[grave ravine]

They still probably wont go for the wing pylons for AAMs

Especially with 6 internally coming out

[runic prairie]

The Boghammers have been real quiet since this one dropped.

[grave ravine]

Sorry for the very late reply, but the Gerat does appear to have been a real prototype naval weapon for once, shockingly http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_55_Gerat58.php

just realized nobody bothered to comment on it

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1678817078441046037

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

It's #CowAppreciationDay! "Scrub the Cow" is the mascot of the Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Cowpens (CG-63) AKA "The Mighty Moo". This is Scub playing guitar to entertain the crew of USNS Pecos (T-AO-197) during an underway replenishment in 2012.

Likes

121

Twitter · Jul 11, 2023, 5:22 PM

[manic latch]

Assumed everyone here knew it

Oh you didn't

[warm finch]

Yeah! The legacy hornet could hack it!

Also that is the F-35C (judging from the fact that there´s CTOL literally written there) which means the wings are bigger. Which inturn means the aircraft has more space for missiles. Which inturn makes this slightly more realistic than on the A

[shrewd pecan]

you know what CTOL stands for right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CTOL

[haughty osprey]

35C is CATOBAR

[manic latch]

Wrong Term

[warm finch]

Ah fuck me I should stop drinking before I go here

Well eitherway the loadout isn´t that outlandish

and the point about the C also stands

[warm finch]

Freestyle correct?

[manic latch]

Yak-41 yes

[warm finch]

This was pretty much the inventor for the two engine design on the F-35B correct?

Something to have with a deal with lockheed

[shrewd pecan]

Lockheed used it for its testing data

but lift fan VTOL designs have existed forever

[manic latch]

Sadly we don't really know just how much Yak influenced F-35

But I personally do feel Mig 1.44 had something alot to do with J-20

[warm finch]

The chinese do enjoy making russian stuff better in their free time

[manic latch]

They do have 11 year difference

[warm finch]

I mean they also do enjoy plagiarizing western designs from time to time so we can´t be that unfair to them

Iam not saying any names here b t w

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1678902165593636865
https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1678902167741030402

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Naval History and Heritage Command has identified the wreck of the USS Ommaney Bay (CVE-79) off the coast of the Philippines. The Casablanca-class escort carrier was scuttled in 1945 after being severely damaged by a kamikaze strike that set off a series of explosions.

Twitter · Jul 11, 2023, 11:00 PM

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Because of fires on the Ommaney Bay following the kamikaze strike, destroyers could not get close enough to conduct ship-to-ship transfers of the wounded. The crew attached life jackets to cots, strapped in the badly injured, and pushed them out to sea where they were rescued.

Twitter · Jul 11, 2023, 11:00 PM

[neat rock]

W crew

[manic latch]

@tough quail @spring briar
Soviet 420mm recoilless gun

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/the-what-smile-whut-weird-stare-gif-16592004

[manic latch]

Now the problem was

First barrel exploded after 6 fires

Second barrel however, exploded after firing 101 shots

This is the shell

[dapper parcel]

How do you even managed to explode a recoilless rifle barrel?

Just how thin they think they can get away?

[manic latch]

It was a gas-dynamic dynamo-reactive weapon. The powder charge burned in a separate chamber at elevated pressures up to 2000 kg / cm2 (195 MPa), part of the gases through special holes in the diaphragm (front bottom) entered the barrel bore and imparted kinetic energy to the projectile, and the other part of the gases entered the forcamore and, flowing out back through the nozzle holes, created a reactive force that balances the recoil force, as a result of which the gun turned out to be recoilless

[warm finch]

I mean, all barrels eventually break. No matter how good you clean and patch up the damn things after each shot, they will break. That's why soviet outlook of making replaceable, easy to maintain equipment is applauded so often.

[manic latch]

And well this was a test gun

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2B1_Oka

Oka has the much better 420mm

Problem is, it comes with a heavy recoil

Which really hurted the carrier

And reload was 5 minutes

So Soviets decided 203mm was best for highest level

[manic latch]

Actually they had choice of

Army 180mm
Naval 180mm (Kirov's gun)
Army 210mm

But I think something went wrong with 210mm, so they reduced it to 203mm for Pion

[warm finch]

Ok I know you're probably not gonna understand me so this is more for the others in the chat, but isn't this the inspiration behind the WH40k Basilisk? Same as in British WW1 tanks are the inspiration behind the Leman Russ?

[manic latch]

Basilisk is only 132mm lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU-14

Su-14 is likely inspiration

Or S-51

[warm finch]

Yeah but the Leman Russ does also have a turret so don't blame me for drawing the parallel lol

[manic latch]

Planes: Why are you launching Harpoons

Apache: Idk

Bruh it's cursed af when you think about it

It's like Ka-52 launching a Kalibr

[humble mulch]

Personally that makes some sense to me

[runic prairie]

Have you seen the other versions?

[manic latch]

Of course

[runic prairie]

Last one is chonky

[manic latch]

Love how she slowly begins to turn into Ka-52

With that radar nose especially

[runic prairie]

She was fed to many Iraqi T-55s

[manic latch]

Pepega

[shrewd pecan]

the true naval apache

[runic prairie]

Seasprite and Sea King with Sparrows.

[tribal mortar]

This looks like a yarnhub april fools joke

[desert agate]

my dad found USS America in Brisbane

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/7NewsAdelaide/status/1677548811571568642?s=20

7NEWS Adelaide (@7NewsAdelaide)

The Australian Army has shown off its military strength in Adelaide’s CBD. Soldiers from the 1st Armoured Regiment accompanied by two Abrams battle tanks marched along King William Road from the Torrens Parade Ground to St Peters Cathedral. 7NEWS Adelaide at 6pm. #7NEWS

Likes

955

Retweets

177

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 8, 2023, 5:22 AM

people are complaining about this

its a ceremonial relocation of the regiments colours

but people are comparing it to north korea

fucking ridiculous

[runic prairie]

What do you expect from twitter?

[desert agate]

its not twitter

its like

the actual news

and regular people

[warm finch]

Welcome to the free world, where symbolicism is mistaken for extremism

[strong plank]

https://tenor.com/view/my-first-girlfriend-turned-into-the-moon-thats-rough-that-rough-buddy-avatar-avatar-the-last-airbender-gif-5710468

[humble mulch]

Looks cool but yeah sorry that people are dumb

Like everyday life is still clearly going on in the background

[hard dirge]

@eternal veldt there is no description about Kearsarge yet?

[spring briar]

I posted this already

[subtle prawn]

He updated it with Kearsarge already

[autumn sorrel]

People take offense over military parade?

[manic latch]

Military parades do cause drama in Twitter alot

Jokes, analysis, comparison, hate etc

[warm finch]

Yes they´re apparently seen as a militarist and/or nationalist ordeal

Both basically being a subject of pride, I fail to see the problem equally as you do

[manic latch]

Comanche really feels scuffed so bad

[warm finch]

Yo it´s the half life 1 helicopter

[severe star]

Lmao

[fierce sparrow]

oh poor Comanche...

[grave ravine]

Invictus looks a bit better

[manic latch]

Invictus gonna lose

[grave ravine]

I don't know about that

On one hand it makes sense from a DIB management PoV to pick Raider-X

And Raider X has the potential to be a better aircraft

Otoh Invictus is definitely more ready

And it remains to be seen if Sikorsky can get Raider X working, and if the Army wants to take that risk

Also Invictus just looks way better than Raider X IMO

Raider-X under construction

[reef schooner]

Oooooo history me like

F-86A SABREJET: The American F-86 Sabre is Americas First swept wing Subsonic Jet Fighter, made In in the 1950s it was the most produced Western jet with 9,860 being made the Sabre was used in the Korean War Fighting Against MIG 15s Over MIG Alley North Korea in the First Jet to Jet combat the F-86 Sabre was a Very Advanced jet with 6, 12.7mm Machine guns and a Radar Gunsight Unlike the MIG 15. the F-86 Sabre had a Top speed of 650MPH and with its Swept wing and design it was made for Dogfighting and Proved Better Against the Soviet MIG 15 the F-86 Sabre was also in Service with other Countries and was wanted by many Countries the F-86 Sabre was a Advancement in the Jet Age

[warm finch]

I wouldn't exactly call the Sabre a dogfighter, no more than the MiG-15 anyway, it was statistically better tho. I believe the win ratio was almost totally in the Sabres favor

[reef schooner]

Hmm ok

[autumn sorrel]

Either you need to relearn grammar or at least put effort into put in coma

[reef schooner]

I tend to forget to use coma’s and Periods when typing

[autumn sorrel]

And rampant upper case

[reef schooner]

I do agree that it’s statistically better but idk about not exactly calling it a dogfighter because it was made to fight the MiG 15 in dogfights

[warm finch]

Not traditional turning fights mind you, the Americans learned their lesson from the Japanese in WW2.

[reef schooner]

Yeah I know that the A6M2/3/5 had a good turn rate

[reef schooner]

I see

So I guess I’m wrong in some areas about the F-86

[grave ravine]

Eh, even before the war primary tactics were energy fighting and BnZ

had been since like 1917 really

and those were the primary tactics for everyone

That being said F-86 was very much made for maneuverability

it especially had a great roll rate

[warm finch]

that is a high speed handling trait...

[grave ravine]

yeah

it was aimed primarily at high speed maneuverability

nevertheless maneuverability took precedent in the design

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1679132426503614469

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

The newest M1A2 SEPv4 Abrams tank rendering in GD's ad

Twitter · Jul 12, 2023, 2:15 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exa6zn9ydgs

[shrewd pecan]

Not the AR10

Rejected

[lime belfry]

@tough quail m14 is basically a BAR

But less cumbersome

[tough quail]

and stinky

[manic latch]

Fixed Biscuit

[somber knoll]

Bis...chie?

[spring briar]

main gun caliber?

[manic latch]

380 of course

[somber knoll]

I mean it looked like she had all-forward setup

[spring briar]

richie had that yes

[manic latch]

Ariel is drunk

[somber knoll]

I was thinking like that then realised that the actual layout looked better on Richie compared to the above Bisko you posted Krem.

More like a bit constipated and my current monitor setup is a bit ass so I can't see it clearly.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1679192444762566656

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Many ships have been named for towns, but the town of Ajax in Canada was named for HMS Ajax to honor the light cruiser's role in the 1939 Battle of the River Plate. Each new street of the town is named for a member of HMS Ajax's crew.
#WarshipWednesday

Twitter · Jul 12, 2023, 6:14 PM

[humble mulch]

I finally found a photo of a Romanian AA train

General Gerstenberg had ordered the Caterpillar to be positioned north of Ploiesti in order to catch the bombers, which would have just come out of the target area by surprise. Instead it caught by surprise the 77 B-24Ds of the 93rd and 98th bomber Groups approaching Ploiesti from the north, as planned. "Killer" Kane, the CO of the 98th (CMO), estimated he lost 7 aircraft to the flak train and many other were damaged. A bomb took out the train's engine and it eventually derailed.

After 23 August 1944 the train retreated northwards from Ploiesti firing on the oil wells in its way. It was stopped by a 7 men team, which blew it up near Baicoi.``

Photos are shit quality cause forums be old but it's from Victor nitu/Dragos Pusca so semi credible I guess

[thorn trail]

Is the Iowa class the only BBs with an internal belt armor?

[maiden citrus]

Several others do such as South Dakota and Richelieu

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

The ring I would offer those ladies in marriage (i made this from a piece of AA gun barrel)

[wintry moat]

This looks like a Battletech tank

I love it

[frozen kestrel]

Quick question: Does anyone know of any really good blueprint-like images of the Flight I Arleigh Burkes? Boutta make a model of the John Paul Jones

[maiden citrus]

[tough quail]

excellent

[spring briar]

💍

[eternal veldt]

Since these designs were designs but weren't built, we felt we had enough creative liscence to say, 'Look, even if they were intended to have these guns, it's entirely possible they would not have these guns'
Thanks, certain video game, for shitting on history harder

[frozen kestrel]

World of Warships?

[eternal veldt]

naturally.

[chilly osprey]

Who but?

[eternal veldt]

now now, you can't underestimate the rest of the internet

cough H-45

[chilly osprey]

[screaming]

[somber knoll]

Screeching sound intensifies

[unborn wyvern]

Standard issue tigerstripe

oh no, that's the bad universe

[manic latch]

Weirdly this picture is deleted from internet as I know.

But I still have it, keep it safe Silver

[wintry moat]

What the?

[somber knoll]

L O N G B O T E

[solid mango]

huwat in tarnaytion

[dapper parcel]

Now I wonder what's the typical north atlantic wavelength. That's going to bow/sag real bad surely

[sacred meadow]

Ok so I looked at Kearsarge in WoWS

How tf does she operate aircraft?

Is that flight deck longer than it looks?

Or am I underestimating how little length WW2 naval aircraft need to operate

[eternal veldt]

Catapults on the flight deck

or, if you have Gibbs' level of brain damage, take the planes to the stern catapults and launch them there

'a matter of convenience, that you should be able to launch planes by catapult without changing course. And also
if the central part was damaged and the planes were not you could use the planes as a normal battleship would.'

[strong plank]

Kearsearge’s designer was a big fan of carriers

in fact he really wanted to see what they looked like someday

[sacred meadow]

Wait Gibbs as in William Francis Gibbs?

[strong plank]

I love how any incomplete launch instantly becomes a massive hazard for the deck crew

[eternal veldt]

Yes.

[sacred meadow]

Wait what

Huh

I never knew Gibbs was her designer

[eternal veldt]

This is his first try on making a battleship.

so, he went full out.

[sacred meadow]

[strong plank]

and any failed landing fucks up one of the rear turrets

[sacred meadow]

Look he’s a great civilian naval architect

But a shit military one lmao

[eternal veldt]

No, he designed multiple smaller vessels for the navy

[sacred meadow]

He did?

Which

[strong plank]

You want to know the best part monarch?

[sacred meadow]

What

[strong plank]

this isn’t even what the Soviets wanted

they wanted a regular battleship design

[sacred meadow]

Front turrets and anything and anyone on the bow are fucked lmao

[sacred meadow]

?

Soviets?

[strong plank]

Yeah

[strong plank]

Design X was supposed to be an export design made at the request of the soviet navy

[eternal veldt]

Quite literally the frontline leader

[sacred meadow]

Oh okay then I take that back somewhat

[sacred meadow]

God damn lmao

[eternal veldt]

The main blame for this abomination other than Gibbs should be the person who made the order in the first place

Sam Carp

[sacred meadow]

Yeah a lot of stuff I don’t know about Kearsarge that I am now learning because of AL

[eternal veldt]

Prior to having an actual team of Soviet Technicians that arrived to help him, he doesn't know anything naval related

He doesn't know what "35,000 tons", "14-inch guns", and "fire control" meant

[sacred meadow]

Looking at her carrier design from what I know of modern carriers, holy shit

[eternal veldt]

and the requirements given to gibbs after that is basically just

"Make me a good ship with 16 inch guns, no limits whatsoever"

[sacred meadow]

💀

[eternal veldt]

For a first timer, of course he goes apeshit on it

His literal first response to the request was "I don't know if I can even make a BB"

[sacred meadow]

I’d be impressed if there isn’t a single mishap in the first cyclic op on Kearsarge lmao

[eternal veldt]

In fact, Kearsarge wasn't the only design he came up with that was offered to the Soviets

as posted yesterday, he made something quite normal looking

[sacred meadow]

Thankfully

[eternal veldt]

and even a smaller version just to placate the soviets

[sacred meadow]

Did it have his usual over engineered safety precautions like with Malolo?

[eternal veldt]

Being unbuilt, we don't know

and I'm fairly certain it needs to follow navy standards regardless

[sacred meadow]

Good point

[eternal veldt]

Because typically these things are not up to the designers' discretion

[sacred meadow]

Not sure how they’d react with him doing his usual shenanigans with safety

For an amateur naval architect, Gibbs did incredibly well

[eternal veldt]

If the design is sound, then it doesn't matter, the board will accept it and modify it

[sacred meadow]

United States really was a masterpiece

[eternal veldt]

If it doesn't, then it'll just simply get rejected like his designs

Design B was considered not suitable and generally a bunch of "why build this thing" when the Montanas are already in development

so, no point to bother with the aviation facilities, which basically just kills the whole selling point of the design

That said, Gibbs did develop a 60,000 ton BB that we have little information on

and was only described in a meeting with Admiral King, who described it as a "well-developed monster"

[sacred meadow]

Not even blueprints?

[eternal veldt]

no.

This is all we have thus far.

and Gearings basically get called as young cruisers.

(Not sure what's with the obsession of Frank Knox - always see her mentioned everywhere).

[sacred meadow]

Tbf, that’s what US destroyers are lol

They just get bigger and bigger

[eternal veldt]

Trying to squeeze things into a smaller hull isn't necessarily good

cough Type 1937J

[desert agate]

Tbf lot of mid-late 40s destroyers were basically small cruisers in all but name

There was very serious discussion of reclassifying the Daring class to light cruisers

[strong plank]

Alright I’ve had this dumb question in my head for a little bit now

So in a modern fighter the radar is in the nose cone right

how uh

[sacred meadow]

Yeah

What about it

[strong plank]

how does the radar project out if it’s enclosed in the nose

[sacred meadow]

Radio waves lol

Just goes through the nose cone

Oh yeah

Radar can also move inside the nose cone, at least for the older fighters

Newer AESA radars have no moving parts

All digital now

[strong plank]

Yeah I know that bit

I’d just assumed that if radar’s sensitive enough to detect even small flying objects

wouldn’t it bounce off the interior of the nose cone and cause interference

[sacred meadow]

If it did, I’d assume it could be filtered out like all the other usual stuff radar picks up

Actually hold on

Let me see if I can find info on the material of fighter nosecones

@strong plank Alright so, from what limited time and resources I could gather, the nosecone of fighters are made out of a material that allows the radar to see through it

I could try asking a former F-14 RIO I’m friends with irl to be sure

Not sure if he’ll know though

[strong plank]

Nah it’s good

[shrewd pecan]

turning to this one since its a good way of visualizing it

radar cone is made from materials radars can see through like fiberglass and quartz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radome

[sacred meadow]

Yeah I was correct then

[desert agate]

HMAS Melbourne showing off her distinct modifications, compared to her sister Sydney, who couldnt be fitted with an angled flight deck due to various metal fatigue issues, related to issues British steel manufacturing and shipbuilding towards the end of her construction

HMAS Yarra is also undergoing replenishment alongside HMAS Supply

[hidden flame]

I'm waiting for an Italian naval talker ...

[manic latch]

Undef is on a break, there is Phoenix

[hidden flame]

He was in chat. He didn't come here to talk about why the Italian fleet stayed cooped up and what their value was to the British.

[lime belfry]

Undef cant handle kms bias

I think he nuked his acc

[desert agate]

guys its really not appropriate to talk shit about someone behind their back like this

leave the poor man along he's got shit on

[stiff moth]

Do I know you?
From DPA?

[grave ravine]

Im no Phoenix, but what did you want to know?

[hidden flame]

I was waiting on a guy from general to take up the talk here. He didn't make it.

Were talking about the Italian navy sitting in port until Taranto took the majority of their power out in the Mediterranean. Reason being, neither side wanted a bad engagement. Not necessarily because the Italians were so strong or something

[grave ravine]

I mean the Italians didn't just sit in Port though

In 41 and 42 they sortied their battleships basically every opportunity they got

[hidden flame]

By 41-42 there was less threat of presence post Taranto.

[grave ravine]

I mean the Brits certainly didn't think so

[hidden flame]

The air attacks on Malta were the last reasonably dangerous offensive in the Mediterranean from the Axis. The Italian navy was resource starved by then if I recall.

[grave ravine]

The successive attacks on the convoys to Malta in early 42 nearly starved the Malta

It wasn't until Pedestal that the Italians started to lay off

After the Brits committed 4 carreirs to force a convoy through

and still got chewed up

Shortly afterwards you had Torch and that was that

But the Italians managed to successfully disrupt Vigorous, Harpoon, and Calendar

The Italian navy may not have performed well at 2nd Sirte as well, but they delayed the convoy long enough for airpower to finish the job

But the period between 1st Sirte and Pedestal was near disaster for the RN

[hidden flame]

Did the Italian ships even sink a ship in Pedestal? Most of the planes were German as well

[grave ravine]

Not Pedestal, they ran out of oil by Pedestal

[desert agate]

the Italians made multiple, very large, very threatening sorties both before and after Taranto

[hidden flame]

Pedestal had multiple Italian ships sunk in action.....

[grave ravine]

Buddy Pedestal was the end of the crisis

It was only after the disasters of Vigorous, Harpoon, 2nd Sirte

[desert agate]

the Italian Navy continuously posed a capable, and dangerous threat to the Royal Navy and the British position in the Mediterranean as a whole

[hidden flame]

Which was their value, it wasn't in actually engaging the vastly larger British world fleet.

The British had replacements. The Italians did not

[grave ravine]

The Brits deployed 4 carriers for Pedestal

out of like 6 total

[hidden flame]

Air cover.

[desert agate]

that severely understates the critical shortage of capability that the RN faced prior to 1942

[hidden flame]

Which I give credit to.

[lime belfry]

The hell is DPA

[grave ravine]

The Italian Navy never managed to inflict the decisive losses it wanted to, but it was the focus of the Royal Navy for much of 1942

[hidden flame]

The Italian navy was strong, but not like a unicum nation of ability

[autumn sorrel]

Defense Political Asia

[hidden flame]

If you'd tell that to the spaghetti eater I was trying to tell that to earlier, then I wouldn't be here

[lime belfry]

Never heard of

He must have mistaken me with somebody with the same pfp

[grave ravine]

I mean you claimed they just sat in port, which is the opposite of what happened

[autumn sorrel]

https://www.youtube.com/@DefensePoliticsAsia/videos

[lime belfry]

Also defense political asia sounds like the most toxic place ever ngl. Balkan lvl of toxic @autumn sorrel

[hidden flame]

No Italian BB were involved in Pedestal.

[grave ravine]

Correct, because as mentioned they ran out of fuel by Pedestal

Pedestal was when the crisis finally ended

[desert agate]

I would note that at the beginning of the conflict in the Mediterranean, the entire fleet consisted of a handful of cruisers

[grave ravine]

yeah cuz France was supposed to deal with the Italians

[desert agate]

all of the RNs carriers, battleships and destroyers had relocated to the North Sea

[grave ravine]

but well that didn't exactly go as planned

[autumn sorrel]

Beat me, the channel is just daily update on that "special event". As far as I can see, neutral.

[lime belfry]

Weird how he said he saw me before

I guess because 70% of Vietnamese are Nguyen

Maybe

[desert agate]

the first destroyers to arrive in the Med after the commencement of hostilities in Europe, was the 5 destroyers of the RAN who arrived in December 1939

[autumn sorrel]

If you really want to see real bias channel
https://www.youtube.com/@EurasiaNaval

[autumn sorrel]

Bruh, we are all Nguyễn Tộc

[lime belfry]

Yes but only if this counts as naval ship

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, so cute

[grave ravine]

Scrap Iron Flotilla?

[desert agate]

the achievements and capabilities of the Italian fleet are very much understated, but so is the desperate position that the both sides found themselves in for much of the theatres naval combat

[desert agate]

indeed

[lime belfry]

Thing is RAF was strong af in the Med

[desert agate]

the 10th Destroyer Flotilla specifically

[grave ravine]

Arguably the Regia Aeronautica and Luftwaffe played a more significant role in naval combat in the med than the RAF

[desert agate]

the entire sum defences of Malta, in terms of aircraft at least, consisted of 5 planes, of which there were only enough pilots to operate 3

[lime belfry]

Malta was doomed anyway

[grave ravine]

One of the most common major fleet actions by the RN was the club runs to Malta to reinforce the air group there

[lime belfry]

It was a sarcastic statement

[desert agate]

The Italians also conducted multiple, mostly unopposed bombing raids against Alexandria and Cyprus

[grave ravine]

ah, yeah sarcasm is hard to see sometimes online, sorry

[lime belfry]

The idea was that had the RAF appearance been as numerous as they were like in German situation

The italians would be locked in port just like the Nazi

Even if yes, their fleet was bigger

[autumn sorrel]

RAF need to defend the Home Islands at the time iirc

[grave ravine]

I wouldn't say the RAF was what was keeping the German fleet locked in harbor

[lime belfry]

Although tbf their air raid on Italian fleets were quite devastating

[desert agate]

the RAF was not only distracted, but it also didnt have the capability to oppose the Italian navy at any point in time

[lime belfry]

I would say so because tirp cant get out of dock without her ass being pounded by heavy bombers

[autumn sorrel]

The first of its kind and Italian does have a nasty tendency to get surprise attack while in port

[grave ravine]

Taranto wasn't the RAF 💀

[lime belfry]

I mean carrier fleet in this case

Air force in general locked German hard

[desert agate]

with Malta entirely besieged and Cyprus out of the question, the RAF didnt have any aircraft capable of attacking the Italian fleet in port from Alexandria, being forced to use carriers for this in a surprise raid

[grave ravine]

The heavy bomber raids only started to get real success later in the war, and even then that wasn't what was keeping Tirpitz in the fjords

though it would be what killed Tirpitz

[desert agate]

Tirpitz left her sheltered fjord repeatedly

it wasnt until the RN and USN parked 3 battleships outside the entrance on a 24/7 basis that she decided she was better off staying

[autumn sorrel]

Poor Derpitz, the moment she show her face, she will be gang on

Isn't there an op to lure her out?

[lime belfry]

I dunno because definitely RAF was significant in the battle of Atlantic @grave ravine

[grave ravine]

Oh yeah definitely

[lime belfry]

Pinning down the german fleet and acted pretry much like a beacon for the RN

[grave ravine]

I presumed you were talking the surface fleet

[lime belfry]

Yes

I am not talking about the sub

[desert agate]

yeah because Coastal Command didnt have the factional issue of eating shit constantly like Fighter and Bomber commands did

[lime belfry]

Although tbf RAF did dome like 200 subs

[lime belfry]

Bomber command on their way to burn another city

[grave ravine]

Even then Coastal Command had a surprisingly large amount of trouble keeping track of German surface raiders

partially because of the weather

[autumn sorrel]

cough cough Operation Cerberus

[desert agate]

Coastal Command, while having a very well established and functional command and control system (unlike the other two RAF commands), struggled in that bomber and fighter command both managed to effectively convince the British government that they were more important than Coastal Command, therefore were able to soak up resources that Coastal Command very well could have made use of

[grave ravine]

Simply put maritime patrol wasn't sexy

[desert agate]

a big part of that is because unlike Fighter and Bomber commands, Coastal didn't have a bombastic, politically connected commander like Harris or Dowding

Harris for example, did not allow Coastal Command to have access to Lancasters for maritime patrol until well into 1943

[autumn sorrel]

Tbf, not until how much Brit need coastal command to patrol and perform ASW, they don't sound as important as Fighter and Bombers Command

[lime belfry]

Unironically terror bombing and shooting down Nazi sounded more fun than hunting for some crappy ships that your navy outclassed anyway

I am just jk but still

[desert agate]

Lancasters which had the vital range to give British convoys the protection they required from u-boats

[autumn sorrel]

It actually more correct than you think it is

Coastal Command early in the war is really underfund and understaff

[desert agate]

Coastal Command having access to Lancasters in 1941 (they did recieve a small number in 41, but nowhere near enough) would have gone a long way towards forcing the Germans into the mid Atlantic gap

[autumn sorrel]

And return to the Med, Coastal Command personel was also siphoned off to that theater

[grave ravine]

U-Boat caught in a Leight Light

[lime belfry]

I always get the impression that Brit bombers didnt do as much dmg to the Nazi as US bombers

But that maybe was because I read primarily US source which overglorified the role of US bombers in disrupting German logistic

I once read that the American bombing in daylight was way more effective than Brit night raid

[desert agate]

you would be wrong because the USAF was forced to stop bombing Europe on multiple occasions due to severe casualties, while the RAF was able to continue

[lime belfry]

But no statistic has yet been found on my end

Definitely the American tactic resulted in higher casualties

But logically speaking, day bombing sounds more precise than night raid

[desert agate]

there was no method of conducting accurate high altitude bombing in 1943

[autumn sorrel]

Not really, "precision bombing" still very much inaccurate

[lime belfry]

I mean it way easier to see what you were bombing in daylight through the scope

Acquiring the target via landmark I mean

Or whatever the term was back than for skipper

Bombardier too

[autumn sorrel]

Their margin of error is 1000ft(300m), USAF achieve this during testing but under combat conditions, only 20% of the bomb achieve that rate

[lime belfry]

Iconic "cut the bomb early so we can get the shit out of here" moment

[desert agate]

14 April 1941
HMAS Waterhen Tows the hospital ship Vita, after the latter had been left dead in the Water by a German Stuka, outside of Tobruk, photo likely taken from HMAS Vendetta who was circling the stricken vessel providing AA defences

Waterhen would prove unable to tow the ship however, and Waterhen would take on 432 wounded and medical staff and sail on to Alexandria

Vita would be towed back into Tobruk and a week later, with her engines repaired somewhat, would return to Alexandria

[autumn sorrel]

Tbf, you are under a lot of stress from Flak and German fighters, even the most composed bombardier will slip

[lime belfry]

Make me think of that footage of a bomber accidentally bombed the bomber beneath it

Brutal back then

Nowaday they just call 3 B-52 and that GG

[autumn sorrel]

USAF box formation, in theory with act like square formation to allow maximum cover against fighters and easier to navigate

[lime belfry]

It pretty hard for German to shoot down the bombers. Even Luftwaffe Ace said this

[autumn sorrel]

You still need to achieve air domination if you want to do carpet bombing which is very dangerous with the current tech.

Loitering munition and Cruise Missile are way more effective

[hidden flame]

Carpet bombing as we knew it in the past is quite different today since it became a war crime called "indiscriminate bombing"

It's also not a very effective use of resources when you have precise munitions.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT5gkuyxoPg

[chilly osprey]

Re; the conversation on Pedestal. I once ran into a person on a forum who basically described the entire operation as German - as such;

Over the course of six days from August 9th to the 15th, the fleet was harried endlessly by German E-Boats, minesweepers, subs, cruisers, DDs, and hundreds of planes, which whittled away at the merchants and their escorts one at a time. In the end, however, the Germans' efforts were in vain...

So I went though and decided to collate all the forces involved and what damage was done

[chilly osprey]

Pedestal ended up being unfortunate for the Italian surface fleet as a whole.

The battleship force was not really in much of a condition to intervene as they had that June, however. Littorio was still in drydock from her torpedoing during the operation against the Vigorious convoy, and would be until 26 August. Roma had just completed, but still needed to work up and would not be considered operational until November 1942. She was still at Trieste at the time of Pedestal. This left only Vittorio Veneto ready for operations, as while the three older battleships were also at Taranto, they were at a reduced operational status for much of the summer, due to the need to concentrate resources (fuel, and escorting fleet destroyers) on the cruisers and most modern battleships. In any case, they were disposed at Taranto, to counter operations from the Eastern Mediterranean (if another double convoy were to happen, as in June) and thus not really in a position to act against Pedestal.

What with that said, the RM's intent for operations in the Western Mediterranean was to finish off any Allied convoy with a 2nd Battle of Pantelleria, this time to be fought by a stronger cruiser force than what had been available to Da Zara in June. Three heavy cruisers, three light cruisers, and eleven destroyers were supposed to intercept whatever managed to make it through the Straits of Sicily.

The British had likewise planned to re-fight Pantelleria, and the convoy's close escort - Force X - was likewise bulked up, consisting of four light cruisers (a Town & two Crown Colonies, plus a converted AA C-class cruiser), seven destroyers (a Tribal, two I-class, two F-class, and two P-class), and five destroyer escorts (Hunt's).

What with that said, the Axis managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of certain victory on this occasion. By the morning of 13 August - when the convoy made it past the Straits and was to make the final run to Malta, and when the Italian surface force was supposed to intercept them - Force X had been whittled down to two light cruisers (Kenya, which had been torpedoed, and Charybdis, a Dido sent to reinforce Force X) and five destroyers (two Tribal's, two I-class, one F-class) protecting merchant ships Rochester Castle, Waimamara, and Melbourne Star. Another merchant ship - Port Chalmers - was ten miles northwest, escorted by a P-class and a Hunt, while the other P-clas was standing by the sinking merchant ship Santa Elisa. The crical tanker Ohio, with a Hunt as escort, was five miles astern of the convoy, and two other merchant ships (Dorset and Brisbane Star) were seperated by moving to either rejoin or run to Malta by themselves.

Had this force been intercepted, chances are the bulk of the convoy's surviving ships (including the critcal Ohio) would have been destroyed. This was not to be, however. Shortly before midnight, the Italian surface force was recalled, which ultimately lead it to its unfortunate encounter with a British submarine.

Why was it recalled? Because a German reconnaissance aircraft had spotted the Dido-class cruiser Charybdis, and the two Tribal-class destroyers accompanying it (Somali and Eskimo), and identified them as a Nelson-class battleship with light cruiser escorts.

With the cruiser force unable to fight a battleship, Mussolini ordered them recalled, and the rest, of course, is history.

[limber dune]

airmen and misidentifying targets, name a more iconic duo

[alpine onyx]

Best not to ask Sheffield about that

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is6rN1A2F00

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-lcu2kBXQI

[grave ravine]

Northampton II should be able to use DD guns as primary weapons

[jaunty agate]

Is there some historical reason for York2's crossfleet buffing FP and NJ's buffing AVI?

[thorn trail]

No lol. It's just skill balancing choice

[jaunty agate]

ah okay, thought it was strange that they had the "wrong" stat

[tribal mortar]

AH-1 the armament is for the Huey but this variant has basically the same stuff

[stiff moth]

Never mind there was just somebody with your Username

[thorny patio]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_LSM-60

That poor ship

REDUCED TO ATOMS

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/DramaWarship/status/1679657054376435713?t=19UGIbjrOulURoe-AnLxIA&s=19

Warship Drama (@DramaWarship)

Date: October 1986. Location: The South Pacific Ocean off Wollongong, Australia. Event: USN battleship Missouri is departing from Sydney for Hobart after celebrating the Royal Australian Navy's 75th Anniversary. Current status: Museum ship at 21°21'43.4" N, 157°57'12.5" W.

Twitter · Jul 14, 2023, 1:00 AM

[maiden citrus]

[frozen kestrel]

Anniversary's comin' up too, bud

https://tenor.com/view/cat-grin-smile-smirk-awkward-gif-22382508

[tough quail]

alright I'm curious about something

I keep seeing pictures and footage of Bradleys in unspecified current events, and the overwhelming majority seem to have had their turrets facing backwards in transit or just driving through the fields

what's the deal with that

like I understand why actual mbts do that but this is a teeny 25mm in an open field so I don't think it's to not whack into things

[desert agate]

hitting bumps and stuff could shift the turret unintentionally which could be hazardous to crew and personnel

[tough quail]

ahhh

[desert agate]

afaik theres a turret lock to the rear

[tough quail]

that makes sense then

[thorny patio]

Hell yeah, July 25th babeeee

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THvRI-wDEpQ

[lunar sand]

I'm curious how America repaired richelieu without the blueprints or original engineers available.

Did we just vibe fixing a battleship

[dapper parcel]

Every ship will have their own copy of blueprint available to their engineering department on board

[lunar sand]

even still, france and the US really didn't operate the same weaponry at the time

[dapper parcel]

It doesn't matter for something like shipbuilding in general. Every repair and modification is to be done in case by case basis with full engineering review regardless of familiarity or commonality due to their nature of each of them being slightly different

Familiarity only means there's pre-prepared calculations and designs available, i.e. less rubber stamp

[thorn trail]

Also even if you don't have the same weaponry you can still produce the ammunition for said weapons as long as you know the blueprints for said gun

[lunar sand]

I'd still imagine fixing a ship for a different nation, that you're unfamiliar with is harder than if said ship was back in the hands of it's original designers

[dapper parcel]

Most of her modification was also done with drop-in modules too
There's not much engineering needed to ad 40mm mounts

[dapper parcel]

It isn't that big deal for a shipyard tbf
It's not like a car shop repairing other brands than what they usually do

[lunar sand]

I actually have some stake in that example, I worked as a mechanic for a bit with my dad

when its a car you're familiar with you can get it done significantly faster than one you're not, since new cars you might have to dig through the manual for a while to figure out what's different and where everything's located

so maybe "harder" isn't the right word, but it'll take longer given the engineers probably need to familiarize themselves with anything that might be different

[dapper parcel]

Well, great example since for shipbuilding each repair is basically equally alien to the shipyard

[eternal veldt]

Truth be told, even if it isnt that big of a deal, the US wanted nothing similar again

IIRC the Brits wanted the Littorios to receive a similar treatment, but the US wanted nothing to do with them

[lunar sand]

wasn't richie taken to the US specifically because she's so damn big?

or was it purely a matter of "they're the only one with the money to fix this behemoth"

[eternal veldt]

All British yards are busy

Anything that is not a small ocean escort or a WEP DD is not a priority

[dapper parcel]

Shipyards still accepting all kind of 3rd party repairs/modification all the time
The difference is that there's usually design bid now. So the kind of "Ill pick the contract first, will look at it later" like what's going on with Richie isn't going to happen again

[eternal veldt]

As for Richelieu, they just cannibalized as much as possible from Jean Bart

[lunar sand]

So the US isn't opposed to fixing someone else's ship

They just refuse to have it be thrown on them without any warning more or less?

[eternal veldt]

There was one single spare 380mm left , so they sent it to Dahlgren, test it and manufacture new shells based on the US 14"

They did the same with Emile Bertin, stole a gun from Turret 2, sent it to Dahlgren, manufacture shell and charges for the 152mm

[lunar sand]

Hearing what JB went through in the war, it seems like a miracle it ever was able to be restored to full fighting capacity

[dapper parcel]

Pretty sure the decision was made by a too higher up than the usual contract, so the actual engineering team was basically have to put up with it

[eternal veldt]

She was repaired after Ranger slapped her around a bit

By 1943 she is cruising at a comfortable 23 knots

But being 75% and no chance of completing her for service quickly, its just a part machine for the 95% and damaged Richelieu

[lunar sand]

Ya know... it's kind of crazy how much money and resources france actually had and still has to a degree

Richie's were huge, and Charles De Gaulle compared to every CV not operated by the US is just... huge

[eternal veldt]

Vichy France actually managed to install radar on their ships, one of the earliest too IIRC

[dapper parcel]

Like or not their policy of ensuring self sufficiecy is admirable

Even though it can be ridiculous at times

[lunar sand]

is CdG similar to the US carriers in more than just the launch system? or is the visual similarities just a result of both using CATOBAR and being designed around such

uhhh... looking at them now

Is Gerald R Ford really big, or does CdG just have a really big command deck for some reason

or is it the angle

or some combination of the above

[frozen kestrel]

Why is the island so far back on the GRF

[lunar sand]

I assume she's just really long

[dapper parcel]

Ford's island is unusually small. It's so far back to allow two elevators and parking lot in front of it

[lunar sand]

how many F-18's do you need on the flight deck?

[frozen kestrel]

Fucken mall parking lot's worth, apparently

[spring briar]

Oh yes

my favourite gun

oughw

[shrewd pecan]

I will additionally note that the GRD is twice the tonnage and 200 feet longer than CDG

[lunar sand]

arent' the frenchies in the middle of cookin up a new carrier replacement for Charles De Gaulle? (replacement probably isn't the right word here)

[spring briar]

yes

[shrewd pecan]

it is the right word

as its replacing the CDG

[spring briar]

not a replacement
just another carrier
that will eventually fully replace it

[lunar sand]

why replace CDG? She aint that old

[spring briar]

she will be phased out

[shrewd pecan]

its replacement isn't showing up until 2031

[spring briar]

when the new cv is built

[dapper parcel]

Hey, at least this time they actually entertaining the idea of building two of them

[shrewd pecan]

there probably will be some overlap of France operating both at the same time

but it will eventually replace the CDG

[spring briar]

that would be nice
but then they better start a recruitment campaign for the navy

[lunar sand]

I sometimes wonder if france only built 1 CDG due to financial concerns or they just didn't see the need

but looking back... they probably could've afforded a 2nd one

[frozen kestrel]

On the subject of carriers, has Kaga's conversion been completed yet?

[shrewd pecan]

France during the 90s was broke

and was going through multiple modernization campaigns

[frozen kestrel]

That one helicopter carrier Japan's got, I mean

[lunar sand]

how is there no good pictures of Fujian
I understand china is doing their best "iron curtain" impression for a while, but how the fuck do you hide an 80,000 ton Carrier...

[shrewd pecan]

additional deck space allows for multiple benefits over previous designs including the optimization of weapons handling, and improving overall traffic on both the flight deck and the hanger bay

[shrewd pecan]

they don't really exactly let civilians into the shipyard

I will remind you that the Japanese were able to keep Yamato underwraps for most of their construction

[frozen kestrel]

Wasn't that also the case with Bismarck, or am I wrong?

[shrewd pecan]

I recall Bismarck being rather known about

but I could be wrong

[frozen kestrel]

And then the Royal Navy said "Nah, your free trial of living just expired."

[wintry moat]

Germany was very public about stuff like the 109, like even letting British pilots fly them in the interwar period

Bis also had a pretty public launch

Did she not?

[frozen kestrel]

Yeah. Hitler was there.

[shrewd pecan]

I recall her being featured in German propaganda during her construction

[frozen kestrel]

Like this?

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

[frozen kestrel]

Just realized there appears to be four Bismarck-class ships in that image

[desert agate]

For more efficient spotting of aircraft on deck

The island got in the way a lot on Nimitz so they moved it

GRF is effectively just a Nimitz with a lot of the kinks ironed out

Better placement of lifts, more efficient handling and parking practices, more reserve power for upgrades

[desert agate]

CdG doesn't really have the space for things below deck since she's a lot smaller, also the French care a lot less about surge capacity for their carriers so they place less emphasis on sortie rates

[wintry moat]

Well, its only propaganda and I'm sure the germans would wanna build 2 more of them if they could

[frozen kestrel]

Aaaand those are triple gun turrets...

[wintry moat]

Also

I kinda want one for my room

[eternal veldt]

Bismarck's launch footage is literally captured on film

It very much is a public event

[alpine onyx]

Mhm

Germany made their naval stuff as public as possible, the coronation of King George VI was attended by the most modern ship they could offer (Speeee)

What little they could show, they presented

[tough quail]

i wish spee would visit me

[manic latch]

You underestimate power secrets can do

Without Satellites we wouldn't even know about Fujian until her launch date

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEISvjDp-8E&ab_channel=TheAustralianArmour%26ArtilleryMuseum

[grave ravine]

QEs and kuznetsovoids are bigger, but CDG is probably the more useful ship

[grave ravine]

There are some decent pics from her launch, as well as some pretty good satellite photos

[lunar sand]

wtf are the tents for

[frozen kestrel]

Soooo um... yeah, Hellfire Cessna.

[lunar sand]

don't hellfires need momentum to maximize their range, they're not spectacularly fast ATGMs

[frozen kestrel]

Tents? Nah man, those are entire ass warehouses

[dapper parcel]

No? and a Cessna is still faster than any helicopter for that matter

Also at 11km it's basically ballistic

[lunar sand]

I have a serious question regarding the hellfires

Why doesn't america just swap them for SPIKE ER II's or NLOS

or use them in tandem

[frozen kestrel]

Hellfire is a surprisingly versatile platform

[lunar sand]

it's not a bad missile

but I find it odd that America isn't operating SPIKE in some capacity

it'd be a nice vehicle based ATGM at least

[grave ravine]

Kaga has finished the work on reshaping her bow and getting the deck treatment to operate F-35, and apparently now they are doing some hull strengthening and rebalancing

[lunar sand]

the TOW is slowly showing it's age on the modern battlefield, as weapons get smarter

and a lot of other nato partners are at least giving the SPIKE (or Akeron) a peek

[frozen kestrel]

Fucking Mach 1.3 knife missile

[grave ravine]

The US is currently replacing Hellfire

[frozen kestrel]

With JAGMs

[grave ravine]

Yeah

[frozen kestrel]

Nice to hear

[lunar sand]

is there any reason the US seems to either not be showing any public interest, or is just blatantly ignoring IFV advancements that just about every other major nato partner is dipping their feet into

[grave ravine]

The US is buying Spike in the interim for Apache though

[lunar sand]

like everyone is trying to upgrade their IFV capacity, but the US is still riding the bradley till it falls apart

[grave ravine]

But new hellfires/JAGM are probably better than Spike ER II

[lunar sand]

JAGM probably but current Hellfires it's more situational I'd assume

[grave ravine]

MICV XM-30 is underway

[lunar sand]

I'm curious if it's gonna keep operating TOWs

tbh my interest with the SPIKE missile (despite being a perfectly viable infantry/aircraft weapon) is it's use as a modern day IFV Anti-Tank weapon

the more traditional LOS missiles like TOW, HOT, Kornet (prolly butchered that) seem... obsolete on the modern battlefield

[grave ravine]

JAGM has the same body as Hellfire Romeo, it just gets a new seeker

[grave ravine]

I mean IFVs are mostly engaging LOS targets

If you want NLOS, you are probably better off with a dedicated carrier vehicle for it

[lunar sand]

with drones being utilized more and more in military use, the use of one to survey an area before advancing, then a NLOS missile to neutralize heavily armored threats

seems far safer option for a mobile fighting force

[grave ravine]

And for NLOS work by ground units, loitering munitions to me seem to be more useful, though a proliferation of C-UAS could make NLOS better

[lunar sand]

[tough quail]

yeah TOWs/Kornets are nowhere near obsolete whatsoever

[subtle prawn]

GDLS and Rheinmetall's designs are competing to be the Bradley replacement

[grave ravine]

I just question putting a heavy NLOS system on your IFV

[lunar sand]

CV90 Mk IV has had success with them in testing

[tough quail]

"in testing" is a very

very different thing

[grave ravine]

TOW kinda is but replacement for it is still way out

[tough quail]

okay, good LOS ATGMs aren't obsolete kek

[grave ravine]

CV-90 Mk4 MLU doesn't use NLOS

It uses Spike-LR

Which is a normal line of sight ATGM, admittedly a very good one

[lunar sand]

they were testing NLOS systems on one

Also I thought the latest one started using the Akerons

[grave ravine]

Akeron is weird, it's not really an equivalent to Spike NLOS

Its most equivalent to Javelin really, but a bit bigger

The data linking for Akeron is a bit more extensive than what is available for Javelin as well AFAIK

Akeron was just a test too, IDK if anyone is buying CV-90 with Akeron

[manic latch]

Because they keep changing or killing Bradley replacement projects like M109 or Abrams one

Now OMFV is back again

[grave ravine]

MICV XM-30 is in a pretty good spot as far as programs go

No funny business, and a reasonable timeline with reasonable submissions so far

The spare of failed projects was in no small part because of GWOT

[warm finch]

Thing is there really isn´t a need? I mean, shit on the Bradley all you want but it is a survivable platform. And according to globalsecurity.org it destroyed more AFVs than the Abrams in the Gulf War. Questionable but sort of makes sense I reckon.

[grave ravine]

There really is a need

The newer IFVs out there are just better

But also Bradley's electronics have been stretched totally to their limits, can't upgrade the platform anymore either

[manic latch]

I don't know why you get so defensive when it's US vehicles but OMFV program wouldn't exist if Bradley was good enough

[grave ravine]

The changed the name from OMFV to MICV, easiest to just call it XM-30 though

[manic latch]

I will prefer XM-30 over any of acronyms

[grave ravine]

Cuz they are now pretty sure they don't want it to be optionally manned

[warm finch]

I get defensive about the Su-30 or more recently the T-64 too... but I guess you have to see people in your own simple minded picture, do you not?

[warm finch]

Correct, but what I meant is that there is no real rush like with the Pershing for example

[shrewd pecan]

hellfire has F&F capability with the longbow variant

beyond that spike NLOS is being picked up to compliment hellfire on the apache

[humble mulch]

Yall are talking about the Bradley

It's not a vehicle you need to throw shit at each other for

[manic latch]

UK fall from domestic vehicles is interesting study

Tho they ruined Warrior willingly

[shrewd pecan]

they let everything decay and all of their domestic companies either get merged into BAE or bought up by foreign competitors

[humble mulch]

Was there a recent study published on this? Or you just looking into it

[warm finch]

Yes... sorry I get carried away when someone attacks my pride, I´ll work on it.

[humble mulch]

You two would probably get along pretty well if you tired. I get there's the whole don't talk about what's going on across the pond so addressing the Bradley as it sits right now is kinda banned but you guys are more then welcomed to share or address that type of information in dms or other servers

As mentioned by tato, the things basically reached the end of its lifeline, and while sure it's taken out the more IFVs then Abrams, remember the context for reason for that

[shrewd pecan]

Bradley is a extremely good, reliable and survivalable vehicle

it is underrated

at the same time it is reaching the end of its upgradability

[humble mulch]

Throwing stats and ratios around and just praying causes more drama and problems

[shrewd pecan]

and there are much better platforms out there now

[humble mulch]

Yeah weapon systems have gotten way to good

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of the IFV ATGM discussion

what is the point of smacking spikes on your IFVs meant to be carrying infantry to the frontline and fight alongside them

instead of just smacking spikes on a dedicated carrier that can be much lighter armored

and just sit beyond the frontline and fling Spike NLOS's at its target

or for the US's case

Switch blade 300 & 600s

[humble mulch]

Yeah

[shrewd pecan]

worlds ultimate tank killer

[humble mulch]

I love the camo

[shrewd pecan]

fifty switch blades on one unmanned platform

[humble mulch]

Yeah thats pretty incredible

[shrewd pecan]

anyway in terms of a TOW replacement for Bradley purposes

I'd argue you'd be better off going with a direct fired ATGM capable of being fired on the move with a optional F&F capability

or pretty much just smacking the Javelin sensor on the TOW itself

and giving it radio frequency guidance later TOWs have alongside the javelin seeker

https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/tube-launched-optically-tracked-wireless-guided-tow-missiles/

[manic latch]

You can see it visually as well. Lot of things British used to build their own is now US made or other

Latest being 120mm tank barrels

[humble mulch]

Oh yeah its definitely something I've noticed, coming from American I feel it's such a stark contrast

[manic latch]

Now it's German

Because UK stopped producing their own 120mm

[humble mulch]

Cause like I grew up I knew majority of the US military companies

Sure not all of them, like barrel producing ones but there's a good amount here that are pretty much name brands as they make other stuff on the side for normal people, much like some of the Japanese companies or like Kalashnikov

[manic latch]

Like

Bradley is tanky because M113 existed

You improve upon experience

M113 wasn't pleasant experince

That's why Bradley upped the armor

[humble mulch]

Yeah and now we're fighting with flying roombas
So probably time we actually do something with it

[manic latch]

And replacement will make it better

[shrewd pecan]

considering Bradley's have been eating direct hits from grads with the crew & dismounts all surviving

I'd say the platform has been doing its job rather well

[manic latch]

Yeah its 122mm rocket

Its +100mm artillery thats usually fatal for direct hits on Brad

What's the Nato protection level of Brad

Level 3?

4?

[subtle prawn]

I'd delete that if I were you, let's just say it references a certain event that is not to be mentioned here in this server

[manic latch]

Too relevant lad

[runic ermine]

sorry

[manic latch]

Np

Just delet since

It's a Nimi warn hole for anyone speaking about it here

[frozen kestrel]

Why does this look photoshopped?

[tough quail]

because it likely is for increased clarity

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1680011727755173889

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1981, the Farragut-class destroyer USS Coontz (DDG-40) accidentally fired a live anti-ship Harpoon missile at the island of St. Croix. After a search found no debris, the Navy concluded that the missile harmlessly crashed into the sea.

Twitter · Jul 15, 2023, 12:29 AM

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/07/14/senate-bill-sets-up-aukus-sub-buy-as-u-s-industrial-capacity-questions-linger

[limber dune]

hey guys, does anyone here know what the actual designations were for the kriegsmarine torpedo tubes?

[strong plank]

Lol what

vehicle that began development in the 1960s is looking to be replaced by 2030
”clearly it just isn’t good enough”

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/thinkdefence/status/1679841188231229442

Think Defence (@thinkdefence)

EXINT Pod

Likes

861

Twitter · Jul 14, 2023, 1:12 PM

https://twitter.com/dewszt/status/1679848416820731904

ᴅᴇᴡ (@dewszt)

EXINT Pod concept art, designed to insert special forces units behind enemy lines

Likes

851

Twitter · Jul 14, 2023, 1:40 PM

[strong plank]

Bradley’s in the same boat as the Abrams

it’s still plenty good but it’s fast approaching the ceiling of how far it can be upgraded, assuming it hasn’t hit it already

[subtle prawn]

Decisive Lethality Platform is the Abrams replacement, is it not?

[strong plank]

Yeah it’s the tank component of that family of systems

You know I’m glad I finally sat down and read through the ASB tank design report

gives a lot of context to some of AbramsX’s design choices and features

stuff like silent mode or the unmanned turret

[manic latch]

Bro

She is 40 years old

Her replacement should have been early 2000s as it used to be planned

XM1201 Reconnaissance and Surveillance Vehicle (RSV) and XM1206 Infantry Carrier Vehicle (ICV) was the planned replacement of Brads

When this project died in 2014 something new had to be made

9 years later we now have the OMFV program

[autumn sorrel]

So, drop pod?

ODST when?

[manic latch]

@tough quail @spring briar @maiden citrus Happy Soyuz laid down day

[autumn sorrel]

So Krem? Soyuz for EN anni?

[maiden citrus]

[manic latch]

🎂

[strong plank]

Honestly?

I could see it

EN anni has a habit of killing a meme each year

[grave ravine]

I would actually argue that Bradley is in more need of a replacement than Abrams

[autumn sorrel]

Soyuz not being UR will be absolutely hilarious

[grave ravine]

Due to the fact that it's tapped out for upgrades

[autumn sorrel]

The chassis is at its limit?

[grave ravine]

Mainly the electrical system

[tough quail]

i wouldn't say IFVs really age as gracefully as MBTs in general

[strong plank]

Weight and electronics

At a certain point you’re having to replace everything else but the hull and chassis

[manic latch]

Think like Nimitz

[desert agate]

in what regard

[manic latch]

She can't take upgrades anymore

Ford is planned to be ready for 40 year of upgrades

[desert agate]

i feel as though it is necessary to remind the chat that CdG has without a doubt one of the worst sortie rates of any modern carrier

[manic latch]

Oh yeah Gaulle does have one of least news among carriers

I don't remember when was the last time I heard her

[desert agate]

shes useful within the framework and capabilities for which she was designed, that being supporting French expeditionary operations, primarily in West Africa, but also globally

shes not like a QE or Nimitz which is designed to launch a good chunk of the flight group for massed strikes in a matter of minutes