history

[tough quail]

I will burn your house down for besmirching the egg

[manic latch]

Well 122mm is indeed large

[shrewd pecan]

sorry but I'm gods greatest M48 Thud

[eternal veldt]

The roadwheel arrangement isnt optimal either to my memory, hence the whole trial with IS-6 (and it ended up worse)

[grave ravine]

M48 did quite well in Vietnam, but M41 also did quite well

[tough quail]

fuck your tank destroyers build more of these dipshit mobiles

[manic latch]

M103 wasn't in Vietnam right

[eternal veldt]

I don't like the egg's appearance

Fight me

[fresh nest]

The suspension was also kinda bad on the is-2 if I recall

[grave ravine]

thank god no

[lime belfry]

M41 was unironically fit for nam

[fresh nest]

Yes

[grave ravine]

M41 was a brilliant tank

[tough quail]

sheridans did nothing wrong besides have a shitty missile forced on them

made by ford

because ford always ruins everything

[fresh nest]

Yeah, the m103 was used during nam, not for long though if I remember correctly

[manic latch]

Recoil makes it jump harder than Sprut

[shrewd pecan]

the M103 never made it to nam

[grave ravine]

Saw an M41 today as well

[lime belfry]

M103 never made it to nam tho

Would be funny

[grave ravine]

I mean the gun launcher had some other problems

[lime belfry]

But no

[eternal veldt]

Im not sure how well a heavy would do in tropical weather

[grave ravine]

but Sheridan was a nice underrated tank

[tough quail]

well the whole gun launcher thing was stupid(ly handled)

[eternal veldt]

Especially with the amount of mud buildup

[tough quail]

just use it as a big dumb howitzer

[fresh nest]

Huh, I remember seeing some pictures of what looked like an m103 in nam, must've mistaken it for an m48 or somethin

[shrewd pecan]

the M103 by Nam was out of Army service

[manic latch]

My favorite M103 flaw was gunners ass starts to burn because his sitting location was just above the engine, they fixed it later

[tough quail]

it's a tiny thing that can snap any mbt in the world in half with HE and instagib infantry too

[eternal veldt]

Centurions already had to rip their skirts off

[grave ravine]

The best armored(ish) vehicle (in Vietnam and ever)

[lime belfry]

You dont really need big gun because tank fight barely haopened in Vietnam

[fresh nest]

YES

[lime belfry]

And when it actually did it like a bunch of paper armor PT76

So M41 was enough

For like 90% of the war

[grave ravine]

M41 even did surprisingly well against T-54

[lime belfry]

Yeah

I mean it did horribly in Battle of Loc Ninh

But it did quite well in Quang Tri

[grave ravine]

yeah

[lime belfry]

Another case of who shooting first tend to win

[fresh nest]

L3 was the best vehicle of WW2 fight me, yes no armor, yes n small gun, but it was fast, maneuverable(ish), and small enough for a reconnaissance vehicle and ammo tractor

[lime belfry]

L3 was best in its kind (tankette)

So yes

[manic latch]

I love the use of Soviet 37mm from ww2 by Vietnam especially on helicopters

I wonder if they took down more US crafts more than any other Soviet SAM

[lime belfry]

Yes

[grave ravine]

TKS was a better tankette

[lime belfry]

I have statistic for that

The 37mm is the best AA gun the communist had in nam

It better than 57mm and 14.5mm

[fresh nest]

What's funny is that every major army has been beaten at least once or twice by farmers with guns

[lime belfry]

But every army was farmer with gúnd

Who do u think they drafted the most ? Urban folks ?

No, it always your average farmer dudes from the countryside

In every single war pre urbanization

Even in ww1 and ww2

[manic latch]

Yup

[fresh nest]

Fair

[lime belfry]

Most of the pop lived in countryside

[grave ravine]

Armies tend to reflect the countries they come from

[manic latch]

Especially ww1 was farmer heavy

[grave ravine]

The US army in WW2 was mostly people from the cities

Because by that point most people lived in cities

In the US

[eternal veldt]

Morale does play a role in how well its military perform

Vietnam was rough for the US to my knowledge

[manic latch]

US was heavily industrialized + they didn't need immediate conscription.

I'm sure US army would look different if say, Japan was advancing from Florida to New York

[fresh nest]

Alright, time to go listen to WW1 German songs, because their songs are sad yet sound so good

[eternal veldt]

Fragging was commonplace

[manic latch]

It will pass Derp

[grave ravine]

Morale is made up of three things, confidence in the cause, confidence in one's leaders, and confidence in the prospect of ultimate victory

[manic latch]

It will pass

[grave ravine]

All three were missing in the US military in Vietnam

[lime belfry]

Your average communist soldier will only go home when they win in nam

The US ? 1 year

So there the cause

One side had to win to go home

The other xould just finish the tour

And forget the war

[grave ravine]

Well also a lot of US soldiers didn't believe in fighting Vietnam

And most people also rightfully thought the war was unwinnable

And the credibility gap was massive

[fresh nest]

British war music: defending their Islands
American war music: going back to their girlfriend
Japanese war music: dying in honor
German war music: WAR IS HELL AND WE WILL NOT COME HOME

[eternal veldt]

The morale story would likely be different if Vietnam actually shit on US territory

Like a certain nation did

[lime belfry]

Yeah but it doesnt happen so...

[strong plank]

Aight I read through the whole thing during my off time at work

[lime belfry]

Although saying that

At least the US had no problem with homefront back in Korea

And they sorta "square" that war

[strong plank]

Very interesting read

[lime belfry]

I guesss war attitude changed

After 1 gen

[grave ravine]

Eh, armies recruit from a country's population, if you need every soldier and 80% of your population is from the cities, 80% of your army would be from the cities

[strong plank]

I wonder how much of the ideas went into the AbramsX concept

[eternal veldt]

Lots of reasons cause a change

[grave ravine]

In Korea there was a sense that the cause was just, and that it was possible to win

[eternal veldt]

"This isn't our war, we shouldnt meddle with it" is a good motivation

[lime belfry]

The baby boom ruined America gung ho i guess

[strong plank]

obv ASB isn’t the army proper, but I imagine the army’s investigating much of the same stuff

[grave ravine]

No, it was just that the Vietnam war was really unpopular

People did not want to fight the Vietnamese

[lime belfry]

I believe there was a demographic that showed war support among US citizen only dwindle after 1968

Before that it was like 50/50

But it strange the red scare did not motivate the men further

When the cold war was still very hot in the 60s

[manic latch]

I think war popularity is more about how good your country performs

Like a football match

[manic latch]

Yeah that one was weird

@lime belfry my favorite Vietnam War picture. Vietnamese having same poses as Gremyashchy's 37mm AA crew in WW2

[lime belfry]

I believe this was actually the standard prepare pose for 37mm AA gun

I serve in 57mm AA battery but when i looled at the 37mm one

They posed like that in training

[manic latch]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/PaulConRO/status/1677359691519729675

PaulC (@PaulConRO)

Following Poland, Romania will also buy 54 K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzers from South Koreea, several components will be manufactured in RO. No surprise here, it seems that Poland and Romania are building their military in a very similar way to increase interoperability.

Likes

1117

Retweets

140

Twitter · Jul 7, 2023, 4:51 PM

[eternal veldt]

@spring briar Wake the fuck up

Flandre is in AL

[manic latch]

[subtle prawn]

It was the Type 1 design that was ultimately chosen for the Alsace-class in the end, is that right?

[manic latch]

Yesnt

9 380mm was the most likely option

[eternal veldt]

Given how Jordan and Dumas said "40,000 ton BBs were ordered", extremely likely

[subtle prawn]

Where did the other sources get the part about Type 3 design being the chosen one from anyways?

[eternal veldt]

Garzke and Dulin

as well as McLaughlin

on the basis that the quadruple turrets do not require a redesign, and that they can simply be used immediately.

[eternal veldt]

for the record, these I believe are what the two produced for the conjectural ship

the rationale is explained on the right side

a bit painful otherwise.

[spring briar]

[autumn sorrel]

So, Flandre have triple gun turret, new BB gun?

[eternal veldt]

I mean....yea

Not sure what's the point when the 406mm Schneider is already in game

unless they want to introduce the 100mm CAD mle.1945

[stiff mauve]

Pretty sure it’s triple 380

[lime belfry]

Probably not gonna change the META BB gun slots anyway

[dapper parcel]

That particular 6in placement is one aspect I don't think would actually happen with Alsace IMO

Thinking about it, has any ship put double superfiring triple 6in other than Yamato?

Or any 6in really, USN's double superfiring twin 5" is already goofy stability-wise

[eternal veldt]

Gascogne, though unbuilt

[eternal veldt]

Considering the specifications called for 9 x 152, no. This will bump it up to 12 x 152.

And I don't think Yamatos are superfiring 6", unless you refer to the A140 series.

[dapper parcel]

What I meant was the forward 6in firing over two main batteries

[eternal veldt]

As for the top stability issue, I think I raised this before; the counterpoint is that I believe Alsace has a deeper draft for the GM issue.

France is really the only ones I can think of, and maybe Germany?

Ah wait, I forgot, Kremlin's favourites

Stalingrad and Project 24

[dapper parcel]

That isn't meaningfully deeper draft IMO. Could be easily explained by different arrangement of her torpedo defense being baked-in directly instead of actually caused by lower keel

[eternal veldt]

Different in what way? Lower TDS?

[dapper parcel]

Not having JB's bulge discontinuity

[eternal veldt]

bulge discontinuity?

this, you mean?

[dapper parcel]

JB's bulge is added on after the fact. One would think a ship designed for the new beam from the get go will integrate the bulge into the design

In any case, the difference in draft is only what? like 10cm?

[eternal veldt]

I see what you mean.

[eternal veldt]

Jordan doesn't include it, for some reason.

[desert agate]

#other-games

[dapper parcel]

If we take Richelieu as completed at 9.22 and Garzke's Alsace estimate at 9.25 That's basically rounding error

[eternal veldt]

yea, you beat me to it.

Garzke cites 9.17 as designed for Richelieu.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsKVr7woLwI

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1677326087439761411

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1908, Ensign Chester Nimitz ran the destroyer USS Decatur (DD-5) aground in the Philippines. He was court-martialed, found guilty of neglect of duty and issued a letter of reprimand. It was a different era, so he was still able to make fleet admiral despite the incident.

Likes

1227

Retweets

211

Twitter · Jul 7, 2023, 2:37 PM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1677717644701585408

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1991, the Navy had to shoot down one of its own aircraft over the Mediterranean when the crew of an E-2C Hawkeye from USS Forrestal bailed out due to a fire. The plane continued to fly, so an F/A-18 downed it with a 20mm to prevent it from crashing in a populated area.

Twitter · Jul 8, 2023, 4:33 PM

[manic latch]

But those are 130mm

Not 152

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1677746995572637696

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1853, Commodore Matthew Perry sailed into Edo Bay to open Japan to trade. Perry introduced whiskey to the Japanese at a reception and then sent 110 barrels to the emperor. Japanese whisky is now a booming multi-billion dollar industry.

Twitter · Jul 8, 2023, 6:30 PM

[fierce oracle]

The f-35 can be a air superiority fighter, it can carry 4 AIM-120’s and the British are augmenting it to be equipped with MBDA meteors,

Being faster doesnt mean that you’re better,

I.E the MIG-25 and MIG-31

[warm finch]

Tbf the MiG-25 has a pretty good service record for a Soviet fighter

[quasi ridge]

but whos faster

[fierce oracle]

Lybia and iraq

[quasi ridge]

mig 25 never was fast

[fierce oracle]

The mig-25 has a top speed of mach 3.31

[quasi ridge]

its airframe couldnt handle the load the engine was giving, it never was truly fast

[fierce oracle]

could consistently hit mach 3 for up to 15 minutes at a time

[quasi ridge]

it onlt reaches that top speed in a straight line, cant turn or else goodbye airframe

[fierce oracle]

It was an interceptor

[ivory ridge]

[tribal mortar]

It shot down some F-18s once

[quasi ridge]

F18s are multirole tho

[warm finch]

A single USN one, they apparently didn't realize until the MiG-25 was long gone

[tribal mortar]

Ah

[warm finch]

Only F/A-18 air-to-air loss to date iirc

[quasi ridge]

what im saying is that F22 is better than F35 in dogfighting

[warm finch]

Dogfighting is inherently outdated.

[tribal mortar]

In a dogfight but a lot of air combat is long range

[quasi ridge]

missile dogfight i mean

[fierce oracle]

Can equip up to 8 missiles

[tribal mortar]

Like over the horizon long range

[fierce oracle]

Quit saying shit isnt good cause its multi role,

[warm finch]

Apparently some testing squadron equipped it with 10 or 12 one time? I'll look up the image hold on

[junior trench]

eh

spherical staring IRST is kinda...

[fierce oracle]

Yes with double AMRAAM racks

[junior trench]

hilariously broken for that kind of fight

[warm finch]

Here

[fierce oracle]

That is a fucking nightmare right there

[tribal mortar]

My WT loadouts

[junior trench]

it's all fun and games until your opponent can cue an AMRAAM to fire over the shoulder with their IRST while also being able to data-link guide it into pitbull range without ever emitting from its radar

ever

[fierce oracle]

10 AMRAAM’s + 2 AIM-9M

The f-35 isnt bad, its a multirole fighter

https://youtu.be/mGwU9HKH_Eo

[fresh nest]

Nah man, I can't even get a lock without getting 20 locks on me in return

[tribal mortar]

HARM moment

[fierce oracle]

Have an AWACS?

[fresh nest]

Lol, I wish

I'm like a racoon in a flying garage, except the garage is a primitive ass f4 phantom

[tribal mortar]

4 internal hardpoints 6 external on the F-35

[fresh nest]

At least I know how to use radar guided missiles on Xbox now sooooo

[fierce oracle]

Theres no point to carry externally when you have 1000 F-35’s

[fresh nest]

Haha r-34s go WHFFFFFWWWWEEE

[tribal mortar]

I do too

[junior trench]

external carriage isn't some magic button which turns off stealth

[tribal mortar]

Bind lock visual range

Easy

[tribal mortar]

Kind of because the radar cross section is really small

[fresh nest]

Speaking of, should I buy the mig-23 MLM? when I have a chance?

[manic latch]

Gee I wonder why 2D thrust vectoring plane is better at dogfight than one without thrust vectoring

[tribal mortar]

If you add missiles on that it makes it have a later cross section

[fresh nest]

I've test flown it a few times and I like it but idk if it's worth the price tag cuz I don't have the ability to get shot at while flying it

[junior trench]

the radar cross section of a missile isn't exactly large, from any angle

and even some pretty basic Have Dashing would make the effects of external carriage negligible

[fresh nest]

What sucks is that I can't get any custom skins on the mig23 if I do get it

[manic latch]

@tough quail gaze upon this and despair

[tough quail]

At least the username is accurate

[fresh nest]

My fellow history enjoyers, edumacate me on the mig-23 because I'm dumb and don't feel like googling it

[tough quail]

what is up with the influx of dumbass claims the last few days honestly

[tribal mortar]

Funny soviet dart

[manic latch]

The MiG-23's predecessor, the MiG-21, was fast and agile, but limited in its operational capabilities by its primitive radar, short range, and limited weapons load (restricted in some aircraft to a pair of short-range R-3/K-13 (AA-2 "Atoll") air-to-air missiles). Work began on a replacement for the MiG-21 in the early 1960s. The new aircraft was required to have better performance and range than the MiG-21, while carrying more capable avionics and weapons including beyond-visual-range (BVR) missiles. A major design consideration was take-off and landing performance. The VVS demanded the new aircraft have a much shorter take-off run. Low-level speed and handling was also to be improved over the MiG-21.

[fresh nest]

Lol

I see

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-stare-funny-gif-26367587

why us

millions of discord servers and they choose this one

[fresh nest]

So the yak-141 was the jet that fulfilled the VTOL that they wanted in the new aircraft

Whilst the mig-23 gave them more of what they wanted and was chosen over the yak, correct?

[manic latch]

Yak 141 was a good replacement of Yak 38M

Or would have been

[fresh nest]

Ah, okay

Soviet aviation has always been a bit confusing for me so that makes more sense now

[manic latch]

Mig 23 and yak 141 has 20 years difference lol

[fresh nest]

Lol

I should probably look at the bios of vehicles more often than I do, it would probably help me to not be as dumb

[warm finch]

There is a technicality here

[manic latch]

F22 can thrust vector, F35 can't

[warm finch]

The F-35B has a variable thrust nozzle, which can be taken as thrust vectoring.

[warm finch]

It's operational usefulness is questionable but, y'know, that's why it's a technicality.

[shrewd pecan]

THRUST VECTORING IS A GIMMICK AND DOESN'T MATTER OUTSIDE OF APPLICATIONS LIKE VTOL FLIGHT ON THE F-35B

[warm finch]

Agreed in full.

[manic latch]

Yes I don't see F35B using that during combat

Weird to bring it up

[shrewd pecan]

why would it

it's only there for VTOL flight

[manic latch]

the first shelter over the catapult on the PLANS-18 „Fujian“ has been removed.

[shrewd pecan]

also what the hell

was that earlier discussion

[manic latch]

Yeah

[warm finch]

Apparently Harriers used it in mock dogfights, I think the term was VIFF-ing? Short for "vectoring in forward flight". But then again with the secondary engine on the F-35B this might be redundant.

[tribal mortar]

Redundancy is important

[junior trench]

I'm not sure how much value you'll get out of thrust vectoring anyway considering the uh...

110 degree angle of attack possible while in controlled flight

[junior trench]

normally limited to "only" 50 degrees

[grave ravine]

VIFF was a gimmick

[junior trench]

VIFF works when you have funny RoE for exercises

[warm finch]

Much like thrust vectoring on non-VTOLs itself.

[junior trench]

like the helicopter vs jets one where the jets weren't allowed to engage except at stupidly close range

[grave ravine]

But thrust vectoring is kinda pointless nowadays with HOBS, assuming you get within close range anyways

[tribal mortar]

It looks cool I guess

[grave ravine]

Yeah it does

Russian jets are the best for airshows

And F-22

[tribal mortar]

Yeah I have a family member who works at Pratt & Whitney. If I slander the F-135 he would probably kill me

Or F-119

[manic latch]

135 deserves to be slandered

Or maybe it's not his fault actually

It's burning almost x2 hotter than it needs to be because of 35's systems

And will become worse with Blok 4 systems

[tribal mortar]

Yeah he worked on It

[manic latch]

So what he says about solution

[warm finch]

Nowadays? Let's be real here. Modern Su-30s look cool, but they were originally given one of the first PESA radars for a damn reason.

[tribal mortar]

He’s not here rn he’s out of state

Tomorrow he’ll be back and I’ll ask him for the answers

[manic latch]

Noice

[tribal mortar]

If it’s not classified that is

[warm finch]

The 135 gives the F-35 a suprisingly powerful engine for a single engine aircraft. I mean, the planes slower than some people would like to admit but you gotta give the engine credit for what it is.

[manic latch]

Problem isn't power

Problem is it can't handle the cooling of systems

So when it goes x2 hotter, it gets much shorter life

Or more chance of breaking down

[warm finch]

I didn't mean that was the problem, I meant that the problem came with an otherwise pretty solid engine.

[manic latch]

Yes you focused on the positive

I'm talking about the negative. That's bad enough to consider a new engine

But a new engine for all f35s would be too expensive

So either new engine or upgrades on f135 are only options

[warm finch]

Well every US fleet of aircraft gets an engine upgrade one way or another in its service life.

[tough quail]

so ignoring all of that

armored cars are funny

[ivory ridge]

truly

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

please do not fuck it

[maiden citrus]

It looks like an 80s action hero with sunglasses

[manic latch]

What T-34 needs to become in 1939 to stop getting bullied

[warm finch]

Wasn't this the april fools day render poking fun at Russian refurbishment culture?

[manic latch]

Refurbishment culture= modifications?

[warm finch]

If you can call slapping new sights on a T-62 that instead of "a joke". Yes.

[manic latch]

It's called modification yes

It doesn't matter how old something is

It's a term

[warm finch]

Guess that joke was a foxbat if it flew over your head that quick

[manic latch]

What joke

Anyway

Ac-130 was highly influenced from such modifications

Slapping gatling guns on Dc-47 to use it as gunship in Vietnam

[warm finch]

I meant that the T-62M obr. 2021 modification might as well be called a joke, thus remotely funny, thus joke.

[manic latch]

Ah you see modernization as a joke

The whole concept of upgrades

Then I have an image for your humour

[warm finch]

No? Just that particular one.

[manic latch]

This should be very funny

Upgrades hahaha

[warm finch]

Since it's obnoxious, 60s hardware being supposedly brought up to modern standards with some sights and a few ERA bricka.

[warm finch]

This one, being also obnoxious, is funny in its own little way.

[manic latch]

Uhh what's wrong with that?

[warm finch]

The Lee if a WW1 general made it

[warm finch]

kinda answered your own question there

[manic latch]

@lime belfry

Anti-communist propaganda leaflet from the Vietnam War (ca. 1965) comparing the mistreatment and poor equipment of the Vietcong with the well-equipped soldier of the South Vietnamese army.

surely right will win

[maiden citrus]

one side has 1/3rd as many military dead

[junior trench]

Never ask a man his salary, woman her age, or why hundreds of thousands of people fled North Vietnam during the partition, and Vietnam as a whole later

[lime belfry]

Pretty correct propaganda tho

Usually in both attack and defense the communists lacked heavy fire support

In a battalion vs battalion scenario, which was the most common in the VNW

The communist would not have the same amount of firepower as their free world counterpart

A typical VC battalion had no signaller so their ability to call support is little to none

They may have 1-3 heavy machine gun, 1-2 mortar and 1-2 recoiless rifle at best

While the other side have 105mm howitzer fire support, heavy mortar as well as air support attached to them depends on cases

Of course in 1975 the ARVN couldnt have that luxury anymore

But in 1974 they still could

[manic latch]

"The VC/PAVN relied heavily on heavy machine guns and standard Soviet-designed anti-aircraft batteries like the ZPU-series for air defense functions. In the latter year of the conflict, field units of the VC/PAVN deployed Soviet SA-7 Man-portable air-defense system that presented a significant challenge to US air dominance, particularly helicopters. For strategic aerial defense, the North deployed one of the densest and most sophisticated air-defense systems in the world based on Soviet surface-to-air missile missiles and radar batteries"

[lime belfry]

The ZPU was actually unicorn in South Vietnam

And only seemed to be deployed commonly in the North

The only logical explaination was that ZPU logisitc kinda sucks

ZPU burned ammo way too fast

This was from my own experience seeing how my AA regiment and others

[manic latch]

[lime belfry]

Always had a 57mm battalion, maybe 1-2 37mm battalion

But never a ZPU battalion

It also interesting that the most common damage caused to helicopter was actually 7.62mm

[manic latch]

"It was only after the shift to conventional warfare in the 1972 Easter Offensive, and the final conventional campaign in 1975 (when US airpower had vacated the field) that tanks and heavy batteries were openly used in significant numbers. When using heavy artillery, the VC/PAVN relied on high quality Soviet-supplied heavy 122mm and 130mm guns that outranged American and ARVN opposition."

[lime belfry]

Statistic on effect of NVA/VC AA

Note that this was damaged, not desteoyed

So it may be survivor bias to say that what cause the most dmg to US aircraft was actually 7.62mm and not bigger caliber

[manic latch]

Damn

[strong plank]

You should’ve posted the funny Turkish m60

[ivory ridge]

these are 2 different tanks but still

m60 upgrades

[lime belfry]

Quite true

Although from account on both sides

Soviet arty sucks at long range

It wasnt as accurate as American counterpart

So shooting at max range tend to make the guns spread a bit too much

[manic latch]

Fun fact this turret can also be mounted on T-72

I think turkey did it for export

[lime belfry]

On statistix use of communist arty in 1972

Dont worry guys it not leaked intel

[manic latch]

I don't know why Soviets didn't valued precise accuracy.

For example for Msta, when her accuracy was around 150meter to target. Soviets went "good enough"

So I assume Soviets prefer artillery by numbers and it's better to have some spread?

[lime belfry]

Yes

So in battle of Quang Tri in 1972

The PAVN fired a total of 180561 120mm and 160mm mortar shells

383362 60mm and 82mm mortar shells

There was no statistic for the number of heavy shell use

But they did mention they had 170603 shells before and during the battle

So.... it can be assumed the communists relied alot more on the light and medium mortar

The 60mm and 82mm one

Because again, it the battalion level fire support

[manic latch]

Communist units also employed mortars frequently, with the Soviet 82mm and its Chinese variants being the most common alongside 60mm Chinese Type 31 and Type 63, American M2 mortar, French Brandt Mle 1935 and 81mm Brandt Mle 27/31

[lime belfry]

A howitzer is a division fire support

Yeah the magic of 82mm mortar was that it can use American 81mm mortar shell

By simply duct taping the 81mm shell to increase caliber

Smart

[manic latch]

Woah

[lime belfry]

They communist liked 60mm and 82mm mortar for that reasons

It shares ammo with American

The American uses 60mm and 81mm

Convenient if you captured ammo

If you dont that fine

[lime belfry]

I think it is kind of a bad doctrine by now

Or at least outdated

With drones and aircraft being the meta since WW2

Just lining up 10 guns to shoot your enemy is kinda impractical

When they had air supremacy

Or u know, drones

Because drones dont have to give a shit about its own life

[tough quail]

i dont know what the full topic is but i heard mortars

[manic latch]

Of course, Smart munitions were developed for Msta to reduce this problem, Krasnopol shells.

And new koalitsiya sv, Msta's replacement has almost x2 more range and likely better accuracy

[tough quail]

nona posting time

[lime belfry]

Mortar is cool

[manic latch]

120mm

Frens

[lime belfry]

So yeah I dont think volume of fire to make up for accuracy is a good thing

Because 1. You have to win the air war

2. You cant provide close fire support to your infantry cus friendly fire

[ivory ridge]

ACV with AMOS

also a cockerill 120 version, a 30mm and a 50cal for recon

[tough quail]

oh thats fucking rad

[ivory ridge]

related to these
https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1677637200249491459

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

The US Marine Corps once considered pursuing the Amphibious Combat Vehicle (ACV) platform as a Family of Vehicles to fulfill the armor community’s needs. It was proposed to develop three manned turret variants: ACV Tank (T), ACV Reconnaissance (RC), and ACV Fire Support (FS).

Twitter · Jul 8, 2023, 11:14 AM

went nowhere but still

[tough quail]

WHY WOULDNT YOU GO WITH THE AMPHIBIOUS AMOS THATS SO COOL

[ivory ridge]

well the actual ACV is a thing

it's part italian as well

[tough quail]

[ivory ridge]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_Combat_Vehicle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iveco_SuperAV

[tough quail]

you should get regiments because these are in it @spiral cedar

they're very fun

[ivory ridge]

dont the chinese have a 120mm mortar on wheels

ah no it's the russians as well

[manic latch]

PLL-05

[tough quail]

i havent dug too deep into more niche chinese afvs yet

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLL-05

[ivory ridge]

doesnt even look like a mortar

[manic latch]

[ivory ridge]

i was thinking of this at first tho

[manic latch]

As Centauro testing showed, wheels aren't preffered for snow/mud

[tough quail]

russia also has this funny looking replacement sitting in development hell apparently

only found out it was a thing today

[manic latch]

Wonder if this is better Pantsir

[ivory ridge]

not sure which kind of mortar is better

[tough quail]

i love mortars of all shapes and sizes

in everything vaguely rts shaped i touch i am an indirect fire psychopath

[manic latch]

Did I ever tell you about a certain Soviet Navy project in 80s?

It's not a story English community would tell you

[ivory ridge]

me waiting for any wargame type game to have Italy

[tough quail]

its also getting france and the dutch soon!

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-stare-funny-gif-26367587

[tough quail]

it is however not getting italy on the current road map

because italy isnt allowed to be in games for some reason

[manic latch]

Devs: Best I can do is China, Russia, America only

[tough quail]

read: the devs cant be fucked to do all the new models italy would need ig

[ivory ridge]

me looking at the danish otomatic and the korean fiat 6616 in wargame red dragon

[tough quail]

..wait is italy not in WGRD???

they have like fucking everything

[ivory ridge]

correct

[chilly osprey]

They're not

[ivory ridge]

south africa won the last major dlc choice

then they were busy with warno

so no italy in either

https://tenor.com/view/plink-wide-cat-plink-cat-meow-gif-27396868

[tough quail]

that's...

[chilly osprey]

Because clearly South Africa was very relevant to a Cold War scenario

[tough quail]

for fucks sake

[maiden citrus]

[manic latch]

I miss Red Alert

[tough quail]

how the fuck is italy not in wgrd but france is already in warno

Eugen Systems is a French video game developer based in Paris, France.

[manic latch]

Turkey vehicles be like

America 2

[tough quail]

oh

iF YOU'RE FRENCH WHY DIDNT YOU SET WARNO TWO YEARS LATER SO I CAN GET LECLERCS

[chilly osprey]

And people wonder why we get annoyed when the few games that include Italian things butcher them.

Because there's barely any games where there's a playable Italian faction or vehicles.

[tough quail]

coh3 be like

italy

no italians

[chilly osprey]

[tough quail]

also be like

releases

nobody buys it

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/we-do-a-little-trolling-misinformation-toji-no-miko-kaoru-mashiko-gif-24078541

[tough quail]

true and real

[manic latch]

Soviet 406mm deck mortar from 80s

It had a smooth barrel of 406 mm caliber and a length of 6.5 meters. The system could fire guided projectiles at both coastal and sea targets, as well as air targets. In addition, it was possible to fire feathered shells and depth charges with both conventional and nuclear warheads. 406-mm turretless installation could be placed on all types of surface ships with a displacement of over 2000 tons
The main feature of the installation was the limitation of the minimum elevation angle to +30 degrees.

[tough quail]

what the hell

80s

right

when the world was collectively on Neo Meth

[manic latch]

Any ship above 2000tons having a 406mm Mortar

[chilly osprey]

I'm not screaming, you're screaming

[tough quail]

my life degrades in quality the more i start to like italian stuff outside of cars

[chilly osprey]

Tbh, if you want an Ariete stand in for most games using the Leo 2A4 is probably your best bet

[tough quail]

yeah but here's the thing

[ivory ridge]

but muh gen 2 thermals

[tough quail]

german
looks not even 15% as dope as an ariete

[remote monolith]

Axis automatically wins after midgame because they get so many good things to unlock while the Allies only get comparatively minor buffs

[maiden citrus]

city of heroes got wild it seems

[tough quail]

a leopard will never give me this level of tank pornography

[manic latch]

Why Ariete with furries art appears when I'm looking through Ariete pics

[ivory ridge]

also i love how smooth and round this thing is

[tough quail]

would rub

[chilly osprey]

This is true

[tough quail]

its so fucking aesthetic

[chilly osprey]

Clearly your other searches are influencing your results :p

[ivory ridge]

they did what

[tough quail]

bruh

[chilly osprey]

WAT

Lmao

[ivory ridge]

i knew about the vehicle but lol the choice of words

[chilly osprey]

That's a pretty common expression in English

[tough quail]

argies be like

spg breeding

[ivory ridge]

gaijin be like

[tough quail]

i dig the colors

[ivory ridge]

german tech tree

cuz TAM

👁️

(not yet but it will happen)

[tough quail]

this makes my soul frown

[strong plank]

And it looks much better than what it’s replacing

[ivory ridge]

what SPG did the germans even use before the pzh

[chilly osprey]

Use the fact Argentina is buying Guarani to claim the entire country for Italy

Probably M109, if I had to guess?

[lime belfry]

Ze wespe

[manic latch]

Most punchable face

[chilly osprey]

Ah, yeah, they procured 570 M109's and replaced them with the PzH2000

[manic latch]

I have an option

It was always my dream for navy and army to share same ammo for high caliber shells

[tough quail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/515583624083406848/1090727811251175545/well_fuck.gif

[chilly osprey]

I wonder what happened to all the German M109's...

[manic latch]

Nom

[ivory ridge]

that's

i know who that is

but that's like

the most direct citation ive ever seen

for a pretty much random guy on twitter

[chilly osprey]

Lmao

[manic latch]

China will grow larger

[ivory ridge]

i will always be confused by how humongous the Guarani 30mm turret is

like why

[chilly osprey]

Ammo stowage? FC unit?

[ivory ridge]

and it's still an exposed belt

[ivory ridge]

cut the tail

[manic latch]

No that's chute

[ivory ridge]

next to a child

[manic latch]

Hmm

[ivory ridge]

japan?

[tough quail]

aw they took their babbo out with them

thats swell of them

[manic latch]

Why this picture is hot

[ivory ridge]

when is spain gonna buy centauro 2s

[chilly osprey]

NGL, I haven't kept track of anything the Spanish army has done recently

Just navy and air force programs

[manic latch]

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/iav-2023-spanish-army-launches-vac-programme

No king rules forever my son

Except if this project dies

[ivory ridge]

it's ok we can still sell them 120mm turrets

[tough quail]

i will never forgive spain

[ivory ridge]

anyway that's an ifv

[manic latch]

It will also utilise the same mission systems and turrets used by the Spanish Army's 8×8 Wheeled Combat Vehicle (Vehículo de Combate sobre Ruedas: VCR) Dragón.

[ivory ridge]

not even

also an ifv

[manic latch]

I love how

"Isolated" Spain is

You barely hear news from them

They just go "k we will develop this"

Then you don't hear about them for a while

[ivory ridge]

look at medium nation 8x8 IFV
look inside
it's based on a mowag vehicle

why always

[chilly osprey]

Spain has its hands in a quite a few lighter vehicle programs.

They've done decently with maritime exports too, for a country of their size (in terms of economic and military weight)

[ivory ridge]

The LAV is a mowag piranha

the Dragon is a mowag piranha

[chilly osprey]

But overall they're still very dependent on foreign equipment, and foreign fittings for much of what they do build

Ex, the F100's are quite good AAW ships, but they also quite literally are also Aegis ships with all American weapons and sensors.

[ivory ridge]

the Pandur is a mowag piranha

the sabrah is a pandur so a piranha

[manic latch]

Biggest weakness of China is

Vehicle names

I forget %50 of them after couple days

[ivory ridge]

if the patria is even remotely related to anything mowag im gonna scream

ok it's not

which also makes the rosomak safe

[strong plank]

Anyone post the new chieftain vid yet?

[subtle prawn]

.

[manic latch]

Wonder if it would be leased if Soviets had a carrier

[autumn sorrel]

Prob the Hellcat not the Corsair

[autumn sorrel]

They need to give them kick ass name or at least spacing out like Soviet did. They have like 5-6 IFV with number designation so close to each other that sometimes get confusing

[manic latch]

@tough quail

Wonder how many tanks Typhoon would needed

[shrewd pecan]

I generally do not understand how ANZAC made it yet Italy didn't into WGRD

like ANZAC is filled with glaring holes as a deck, is missing multiple units it should of had, and only really serves to complement commonwealth with AUG equipped infantry

[lime belfry]

Because it isnt a famous faction ?

"If a force is good in WW2 there a 99% chance there a game featuring them in any given time period, even if it doesnt make sense"

[shrewd pecan]

they added both the Netherlands and South Africa

[deep apex]

The Italians did perform well in WW2 at times

Tf are they on?

[strong plank]

does't wargame take place in europe too

[lime belfry]

Wargame used to be pog

[deep apex]

Yup

[shrewd pecan]

wargame red dragon is primarily Asia yet they went "we want to primarily focus on European countries"

[lime belfry]

They fucked up after steel division

[shrewd pecan]

when it comes to a lot of the units

[lime belfry]

Because agai there not alot of Asian countries that can be an unique faction

There Korea japan and China India

What next ?

Thai ????

[shrewd pecan]

oh there's not even Pakistan or India

[lime belfry]

Singapore I guess ?

[shrewd pecan]

there's 4 Asian countries + ANZAC

[lime belfry]

Yeah my point is

There not alot

I am not naming every faction

[shrewd pecan]

they didn't even bother giving ANZAC like a AMRAAM F-18 interceptor or anything

their top fighter is a F-4E

and their only ATGM planes are A-4 skyhawks

[lime belfry]

Tbf M113 tank variant is kinda pog tho

[shrewd pecan]

literally could of gotten the almost purchased New Zealander F-16s as the top end ATGM plane with AMRAAMs as the air to air missile

would of made up for the top end tank only being a Leopard 1

they could of also of just given ANZAC the North Korea treatment inlore

and just smacked them with the abrams a few other things

anyway enough about WGRD

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1677840585053335552

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

In 1975, the U.S. Navy planned to take visiting Soviet sailors on a tour of cultural sites in the Boston area. After stopping for lunch, the Soviets refused to leave a Howard Johnson's restaurant because they were so amazed by all the food they could order.
#SeaStorySaturday

Likes

969

Retweets

187

Twitter · Jul 9, 2023, 12:42 AM

[runic prairie]

I bet Constantine XI shit himself when he saw the Ottomans drag one of these into the Golden Horn.

[strong plank]

you know the weird LockMart NGAD shape kinda makes more sense if viewed from upside down

[dreamy vector]

They will in a way, provided that the soviets were low at air power for some time.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/RyszardJonski/status/1678011603357245440

Junsupreme (@RyszardJonski)

Polish M1A1 Abrams, K2 Black Panther and Leopard 2PL side by side.
📸Source: 1 Warszawska Brygada Pancerna / fb

Likes

427

Twitter · Jul 9, 2023, 12:01 PM

[warm finch]

What a millenium of invasions does to an mf

[solid mango]

MOBILE NOO-

[autumn sorrel]

You might want to relearn Polish history, they aren't always victims

Even Vietnam have a tendency to downplay our conquest and expansion, as if it is something to hide

[autumn sorrel]

It must be a fun night

[warm finch]

I didn't specify "getting invaded" or "invading" tho...

[manic latch]

Then why even mention it

[warm finch]

It works both ways, your hostility is entirely unnecessary

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1678100226303836160

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1991, B/N LT Keith Gallagher was paritally ejected through the canopy of a KA-6D Intruder due to a faulty seat. Pilot LT Mark Baden managed to land on USS Abraham Lincoln with Gallagher unconscious on top of the plane. Gallagher recovered and returned to flight status.

Twitter · Jul 9, 2023, 5:54 PM

[autumn sorrel]

I always have a wierd love for the Intruder, it look cute af

[shrewd pecan]

Always been a weird aircraft to me with a rather fascinating history of service and modernization

Navy/marine work horse that served from 68 all the way to 2019

Personally the retirement of the KA-6D alongside the S-3 Vikings were probably the biggest mistakes the navy made entering the 21st century

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, the A-6 look and really build to last

[shrewd pecan]

Could of also of just replaced everything with osprey variants

[dapper parcel]

Not only the aircraft, they are basically retiring the role too

Hawkeye only survives because they actually need loiter time

[warm finch]

I mean, the Growler should be able to do ASW as well as EW? But even then there's not as many of them as S-3s or EA-6s

[shrewd pecan]

I don’t see where you’re putting ASW capability on a growler

I was also primarily pointing out the refueling variant of the A-6

The role the S-3 later took up as well

One of the primarily short comings of the navies current carrier strike groups is the lack of dedicated refueling aircraft leaving only super hornets to carry out the mission

[warm finch]

To my knowledge the Hornets can refuel each other

[shrewd pecan]

Which greatly eats into the service life of the super hornet

[warm finch]

See?

[shrewd pecan]

Yeah that’s bad for the long term service life of the aircraft

[chilly osprey]

The term you're looking for is 'buddy tanking'

The current goal, at least for the USN, is to put the MQ-25 in service as an unmanned tanker for carrier aircraft

[dapper parcel]

Airframe stress aside, you can only extend combat range by at most 40% by buddy tanking

[warm finch]

Oh yeah sorry Iam on data so by the time you try to stop me I already continue on whatever tangent I was going on lol

[dapper parcel]

COD, sure, already done
ME/CE, sure, but surely as an air ambulance only and not actually for rescue mission right?
AR, maybe, idk if potentially slowing down the whole flight is optimal here
C2ISR, lol

[shrewd pecan]

the C2 one is just funny

But generally I think the osprey could of made a half decent refueling and ASW platform

[grave ravine]

Some Marmon Herrington armored cars

Humber

BRDM with Malyutkas

Fox

Cascavel

EBR

Sdkfz 221 (maybe reconstruction)

Staghound

Greyhound

Modified Ratel

Eland 60

[tough quail]

absolutely

fantastic content

[grave ravine]

Saw them at the Royal Jordanian tank musem the other day

[dapper parcel]

I think they're just emulating Crowsnest with that, not full AEWC capability

[warm finch]

The fact the chinese are able to finish a fleet carrier, with no prior experience in making them, without any major expertise from the original builders AND having it not need a tugboat on every deployment is praiseworthy.

[manic latch]

I love how you bait things willingly

"In good will" is important Mikoyan

China's situation is related to having high attention on surface navy combined with second larger military budget in the world

And being much younger by technology they applied of course

[warm finch]

I have enough good will to expect you to take the comment for what it is, praising the chinese for doing it better than the Russians who built the damn thing.

Or rather started building

[manic latch]

Yes Varyag was left in Ukraine when Union collapsed

China bought from them later, given its worn down state, people were mostly convinced it won't be finished as military vehicle

[warm finch]

So was Kuznetsov actually, the whole problem with it is that Russia has no dry dock that can properly service her. The Kuznetsov was literally taken from the shipyard and brought to a Russian port to be announced as the Russian Federations flagship.

[manic latch]

New drydock is build, and she was placed there just months ago

[warm finch]

As far as I can tell it wasn't. Apparently it was finished as a familiarity training vehicle and then refitted for combat.

[manic latch]

But yes she was build in Nikolayev shipyard like Kiev class before her

Soviets liked Nikolayev shipyard because it was an ice free port

[warm finch]

Ooh. That explains the whole fire thing that happened at the end of 22. Got it, thanks.

[manic latch]

Promise was it would become entrainment park

[warm finch]

I mean Russias entire expansion since Peter the Great was centered around ice-free ports, can't really blame them for cashing in on that lol

[manic latch]

Repairs during maintenance is common, because of all the welding work being down etc. Uss Bonhomme Richard also burned in 2020 during maintenance for same reason

No navy is free of maintenance fire chance

For Bonhomme For example, because of her maintenance "The resulting fire was fueled by paper, cloth, rags, or other materials, not fuel oil or other hazardous materials"

Ship maintenance gives you lot of open electric cables, welding equipment heat, lot of hazardous material side by side

So that's why most ships can burn during it or during construction

[warm finch]

Especially if you've got nothing to fight it with like in the Bonhomme Richard

[manic latch]

Hell this is latest example

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2023/06/30/in-construction-amphibious-ship-catches-fire-at-ingalls-shipbuilding/

June 30

Same case

"Construction or maintenance"

[warm finch]

Yes, I mean we do agree that ships are susceptible to fires during dry dock times then?

[manic latch]

Yes, and we also agree it's not special to Kuznetsov

Tcg Anadolu is weird one

Her fire wasn't reported at all almost

It's on her wiki page

[warm finch]

Oh that wasn't the point, point was that I couldn't figure out why she would be burning when she's been in a port near/in Murmansk for months, the fact she was in a dry dock explained that

[manic latch]

No you can still have fires while on sea

As said, Bonhomme wasn't on drydock as well if you remember

Since maintenance happen inside ships

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/352975182065041410/1093166129792421959/LaGalSmug.gif

[manic latch]

Drydocks are for large maintenance, while normal docks are for well normal ones

[warm finch]

But it had all the fire control systems removed which I presumed the Kuznetsov would still have if she wasn't being worked on until a dry dock had been constructed, but the dry dock was infact constructed with the Kuznetsov in it, rendering that assumption moot.

[manic latch]

You disable fire control systems when I don't know, maybe to prevent watering when you are doing welding since it's hot and can activate things you don't want to

Or if you are changing the water pipes etc

Or you don't want to ruin your paint etc

[warm finch]

Yes. That's what happened on the Bonhomme Richard. The fire control wasn't on and something caught fire, resulting in the ship being decommissioned.

[manic latch]

Kuz's firefire broke out as welders were working during maintenance in the first power unit

I dont know of all ships disable damage control systems for water if they are doing welding

Since fire detectors can get triggered

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/04/chinas-1st-type-075-lhd-caught-on-fire-during-fitting-out/

[manic latch]

Interesting enough however

Amphibious ships have the most fire news

Anadolu, Bonhomme, Type 75, Bougainville

[warm finch]

Curious

[tribal mortar]

My family member said 1 thing because the rest is classified

But he said there are different variants of the F-135

F-119 is also classified too

Can’t say anything about them

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1678138760607793154

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1945, USS Cod made the only international sub-to-sub rescue when it saved the crew of the grounded Dutch 0-19. The Dutch crew was so thankful that they later held a big party for the U.S. crew. The Cod commemorated the event by adding a martini glass to its scoreboard.

Likes

209

Twitter · Jul 9, 2023, 8:27 PM

[manic latch]

I mean that's for most warplanes engines

And F135 HAS to get a modified variants in future to cope with her heat problem

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Soldier_2030_Initiative

Mind boosting drug

[ivory ridge]

based

[tribal mortar]

Failed project

Very sad

[tribal mortar]

They saw the pervitin results

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1678201828289249282

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1940, HMS Warspite scored one of the longest range gunnery hits from a moving ship to a moving target in history. During the Battle of Calabria, a 15-inch shell from Warspite hit the Italian battleship Giulio Cesare from a distance of almost 15 miles.

Twitter · Jul 10, 2023, 12:37 AM

[manic latch]

@tough quail

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/07/more-zubr-class-amphibious-assault-hovercraft-for-the-chinese-navy/

More Zubs

[tough quail]

zoobies

[manic latch]

Yo Rich

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/indian-navy-to-get-26-rafale-m-fighters-and-three-attack-submarines-from-france-101688953456665.html

[tough quail]

ADDITIONAL RAFALES

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/Rich_Ships/status/1677904134391963648?s=20

RichShips (@Rich_Ships)

Great footage of BB-60 USS Alabama and BB-57 USS South Dakota during a practice exercises with the Royal Navy near Scapa Flow on June 24, 1943.

BB-60 closest to camera. Likely filmed from HMS Anson.

428-NPC-1905 #BB60 #USSAlabama #BB57 #USSSouthDakota #OTS #OverTheShoulder

Likes

367

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 9, 2023, 4:54 AM

[manic latch]

See the problem here Horse?

Vikrant's elevator width is 10 meter

Rafale M width is 10.9meter

They gonna pull something weird

[tough quail]

toggles noclip

[manic latch]

Production of TEDBF is planned for 2031

[eternal veldt]

@spring briar

[autumn sorrel]

I know that they supposed to be bad design but god, tumble home design was goofy and cute af

[wintry moat]

What ship?

weird little bote

[eternal veldt]

Neptune.

[pseudo crystal]

That is a nice house boat

[solid mango]

I love these cute goobers

[spring briar]

Not bad design
Just has one huge drawback

[cinder escarp]

They're rearranging some of the wingtip stuff

[zealous vine]

new super BB has 2 conning towers

[eternal veldt]

Dogshit design

I assure you sir, there is no structural integrity problem near the bow

[maiden citrus]

based

[autumn sorrel]

14inch gun?

[ivory ridge]

16

super montana

[autumn sorrel]

80-90k tons?

[alpine onyx]

Two conning towers is unusual?

[autumn sorrel]

Redundant in case 1 got taken out

[eternal veldt]

It's more that

The US never had it in previous designs

so why add it now

[alpine onyx]

And the Germans had it on like... all of their ships with notable fire control

Heavy cruisers and larger

[autumn sorrel]

Maybe base on the studied of Eugen?

[eternal veldt]

That's a cruiser, it shouldn't be applied to a BB

A conning tower also contributes to topweight, so its not something like an afterthought to add

The whole super-montana WG made is just many ??????s on multiple levels

[alpine onyx]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/669133963864047626/1078274743788122193/image.png

[autumn sorrel]

What was the thickness on Iowa conning armor again?

[alpine onyx]

Actually may I argue for the Deutschlands to have three conning towers?

[eternal veldt]

16", IIRC

oh, 17.3"

[autumn sorrel]

Pretty heavy

[solid mango]

Ew wtf is that

[warm finch]

Tbf WG does have a knack for adding things that never existed.

Not saying the other side of the barricade is any better but still. Structural integrity does not matter if it's as arcade-y as WoWs

[eternal veldt]

I wouldn't mind if they demonstrated themselves to be capable of doing much better

[limber dune]

@eternal veldt for kitakaze, you used the line drawings from 高角砲と防空艦 but didnt credit it in the reference list

[eternal veldt]

Devastation, as fake as it is, falls in line with British battleship development

Must have deleted it on accident. Thank you.

[limber dune]

no problem

[limber dune]

i wanna ask, is there a pdf of it available online, or did you scan it by yourself?

[eternal veldt]

It was found online, on a rather sketchy website that did not offer much detail. I wish I have a copy.

https://kknews.cc/game/3zm38ma.html If you can read Chinese, you can find the other scanned sections here.

[limber dune]

alright, thanks for the help. i was hoping someone just straight-up scanned the entire thing.

[eternal veldt]

Japanese books in general are quite difficult to come by.

Even less so on scanned copies.

[limber dune]

the older ones, yea. best bet is to find them on jp yahoo auction and even then they cost a lot.

[eternal veldt]

I am fortunate enough to have a few books by Fukui.

[fierce sparrow]

people really tried way too hard for the Future Soldier programs these days...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAZWXUkrjPc&ab_channel=SonyPicturesEntertainment

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/368244534578118658/1086722679190593758/BurningMurmory.gif

oh! oh no... pls don't Sony
Is this is a movie or a mini series?

[manic latch]

Omg its Rich when he finally snapped from lack of France event

[autumn sorrel]

Hope it is a series

Honestly after the recent Alien movies, I rather have a dim view on Scott, really hope he doesn't fuck this up

Anf for real tho, what's with modern trailer and give away nearly everything in it

[fierce sparrow]

sigh... I really hate watching modern trailer cliches these days.

No thanks to Inception for the "gold standard" of movie trailers.

[autumn sorrel]

Like that ice battle scene, fucking hell give away the whole action plot

[fierce sparrow]

whoever made that Napoelon trailer should have been fired for the job.
It so obvious like you said...

[autumn sorrel]

Honestly, just show him changing from a captain uniform, to general, to the coronation then his field dress as Emperor, nothing more

[autumn sorrel]

It give away the surprise and now I feel nothing when the scene happen

[fierce sparrow]

So... do you remember the Napoleon 2002 mini series?
I used to watch this back in my high school.

what do you think of it now? decent enough?

[autumn sorrel]

Canadian? I don't think Vietnam ever aired a Canadian tv series

[autumn sorrel]

I was more famaliar with Waterloo

[fierce sparrow]

right... Watertoo, we all know that movie

[autumn sorrel]

Man, that sonic boom moment

[autumn sorrel]

Shame that Soviet is no more, you can't have entire army corps as your extra anymore

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

[autumn sorrel]

CN can still technically do that but frankly, their idea of historical accurate is questionable

[shrewd pecan]

a lot of movie productions cooperate with the US military

but that cuts into what the movie can exactly show or discuss

[fierce sparrow]

even the New Zealand army is helping the production for the Lord of the Rings.

Something about the landmines safety

[autumn sorrel]

Michael Bay, I know. But unless they make a movie about war for Independence, I don't see a massive extra shot

[shrewd pecan]

also if its a movie set before the modern era its easy enough to just get a bunch of extras

or renactors

[autumn sorrel]

Civil wars, definitely. War for Independence, I know of some group. This one might need the French Army, they still have the equip from what I seen

Funny if that Square formation is actually composed of Brit reenactor group

[humble mulch]

I feel it's a decent trailer

And yeah bro

It's piss easy to get extras

[fierce sparrow]

British Squares...

[humble mulch]

Just film in Europe

They do reenactments and they are fuckinf huge

Think waterloo last year was absolutely funding massive

[autumn sorrel]

Is this the part you tell me that it will compose of Polish Uhlan?

[humble mulch]

[autumn sorrel]

Honestly, one of my fav military formation in history

[humble mulch]

Idk what the numbers was but I do wargaming and my napeolic pals were bragging about going

But yeah normal western trailer

[humble mulch]

This goes hard, but for zoomers you do need action

They've been feed marvel movie trailers for the past like 10 years

[fierce sparrow]

At least I stop watching recent Marvel Movies.

They are now but errrr....

[autumn sorrel]

Fucking Hollywood, corrupt everything with their cheap pop movie

[humble mulch]

Yep it be like that

[autumn sorrel]

I am so burn on Marvel that I don't even care talking about Fury anymore

[humble mulch]

Hopefully tho it's actually good tho

[autumn sorrel]

Heard it bad but frankly, I don't care

[humble mulch]

Fury was enjoyable

But yeah lmao

Stupid ass Germans and their tiger just throw the last fight

Producers forgot how ambushes worked irl

[warm finch]

This reminds me of the fact that in the movie Waterloo, there are no miniatures/whatever primitive CGI they managed to make back then. All of the soldiers are actually real Red Army troops.

[humble mulch]

Yeah!

Lmao

Same with civil war movies

[autumn sorrel]

Not that Fury, the Secret Invasion show

[humble mulch]

They just get reenactors

[humble mulch]

LOL

My bad

[autumn sorrel]

But yeah, the Tiger fight is stupid

[warm finch]

Oh yeah, Gettysburg was made to be historically accurate mostly because if it wssn't the reenactors could just kinda leave

[humble mulch]

It's cheap, like imagine you get to go dress up and larp a cool battle and they film it

[autumn sorrel]

So you watch History Buff

[humble mulch]

Would be so much fun

[warm finch]

Well I do but I actually knew that fact before watching his video.

[humble mulch]

Yeah they keep you in check cause they love and know the history

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, it sound fun hanging out doing what you like

[humble mulch]

Like Henery cavel with Witcher

(Superman dude)

[autumn sorrel]

*Cavill, yeah, it was bad

Watch only ep1, barely make it through

[humble mulch]

Hollywood and never being able to adapt source materials faithfully

[autumn sorrel]

"Ring of Power"

We just need to connect Tolkien to a rotor and we will have infinite power

[humble mulch]

The history of Hollywood ruining my favorite things

[warm finch]

All of season 1 is somewhat bearable if all you know about the witcher franchise is "cool blonde transhuman kill monster"

[humble mulch]

Lmao

[autumn sorrel]

Korean ironically make better war movie now, a bit cheesy but good

[humble mulch]

I've been looking at Chinese War films

[autumn sorrel]

I can't stand, play the game and read the books, can't stand it

[humble mulch]

Sure it's propaganda

But fuck it's cool and nice

makes the US looks so much fucking cooler too bro

[warm finch]

Yeah, I think exposing yourself to both sides propaganda helps you stay in the middle

[humble mulch]

Yep that's what I try to do

[autumn sorrel]

I hope you mean the big budget one, they have literally a popcorn movie industry that churn out anti Japan movie each week with questionable quality

[humble mulch]

No no not the anti Japanese ones

[warm finch]

So uhm... what's the ETA on the Top Gun bootleg again?

[humble mulch]

Those ones are bad. Yeah I stick to their big box off stuff

[humble mulch]

Zero idea but ngl I can't wait

[autumn sorrel]

[humble mulch]

Me reenacting with the boys and I hear a tank engine in the distance

[warm finch]

Battlefield V 💀?

[autumn sorrel]

There is one where Japanese have Bulletproof vest with MP5

[humble mulch]

Will say tho those kits are pretty alright

His backpack is modern tho

[autumn sorrel]

It was so bad even the Chinese hate it

[humble mulch]

Those straps give it away

[autumn sorrel]

Gun isn't the problem from what I know, they still have large number of old Arisaka

[humble mulch]

Yeah

I believe they kept a fuck ton just for movies

[autumn sorrel]

For Militia formation, tho they don't really train those formation like we do

Man, it feel weird. I just watch a anti JP drama just last month with my neighbors

She married a CN guy so their Cable have CN channel for reason

It is decent, still a bit over the top but gear is mostly right tho

[fierce sparrow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/368244534578118658/1086722679190593758/BurningMurmory.gif

what is that???

[humble mulch]

Yeah they probably don't train or know squad shit over there

American reenactor groups are iffy on this too

[autumn sorrel]

Funny enough, I could probably get myself a gear, stand in the line and I will perform perfectly to the order given.

But yeah, kudo to those reenactor, they go as far as having NCO to lead each platoon and perform seemlessly

[humble mulch]

Yep, I do wargaming shit so I know a decent amount of ww2 squad tactics and I think I'd only be able to actually perform as an NCO/squad leader

Anything more like platoon wise and I check out mentally under pressure

[autumn sorrel]

I play Foxhole, only combat role I have is tank driver

That or my being the regiment quartermaster

[humble mulch]

Lol yeah

Like 1 job that's pretty manageable

[autumn sorrel]

Being a tank driver is actually decent, if you have a competent commander than he can pretty much guide you to position and told you when to fall back

It start being a problem is when me being the driver but also the most senior one in the crew so I have to drive and command at the same time

[humble mulch]

Yeah, leading like 3 groups of 3/4 men (2 rifle sections + lmg section) is manageable for me. One in cover firing while the others move and repeat the process

[autumn sorrel]

Problem is comm, it is easy when you only have 10 dudes in shouting range or a tank, when you have to coordinate multiple unit on the field than it will be problems

[lime belfry]

The best job u can get in the army is being the cook

Just saying

[autumn sorrel]

Rice and stew Pork?

[lime belfry]

Bruh no

Rice with boiled egg

The nightmare

[autumn sorrel]

Lol

Take so long to peel

[lime belfry]

Only conscript know....

We eat boiled eggs every single fucking day

[solid mango]

Often times I forget how large these ships rlly are

[fierce sparrow]

https://twitter.com/Real_CandRsenal/status/1678399427713671180

CandRsenal (@Real_CandRsenal)

#oldguns

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Twitter · Jul 10, 2023, 1:43 PM