history

[severe star]

I am actually struggling to keep sane here rn bro

[tough quail]

but which ones cooler

im a fan of the twin version

[ivory ridge]

WT has the 30mm one

[neon oyster]

Well I’d rather have a tank. Even if it’s one that can be taken out by a single panzerfaust

[ivory ridge]

but the 20mm one can do this

[spring briar]

@manic latch you know if you know

[severe star]

Yeah smh forgot? We NATO very bad because russia stuff looks cool

Peak logic

[shrewd pecan]

the Leopard 1A5 can fair off well against a T-72 because it has the leopard 2A4 FCS and thermals

[autumn sorrel]

Considering my country is modernizing T-55 to put them in independence tank brigade, the old gramp still have a lot of juice in them

[ivory ridge]

bnuy tank

[manic latch]

it's literally reverse for you that's the problem

[shrewd pecan]

the standard Leopard 1 is a tank worse armored than most IFVs

[tough quail]

yeah

that pose looks so dope

[neon oyster]

I do love me T55am

[warm finch]

Eastern upgrade or actual upgrade?

[shrewd pecan]

what I see in my dreams

[tough quail]

yeap

[warm finch]

Slapping ERA on does not work as an upgrade...

[manic latch]

Abrams Tusk: Ok

[neon oyster]

Well defense. Dig out a ditch for the tank to sit in suddenly you’re much more dangerous

[warm finch]

Correct.

[manic latch]

Do you know what she use

[severe star]

This just further proves none of you habe listened to a single word and just try to misunderstand it or see flaws in things that can be easily explained, then yell something in counter because you're out of counter arguements

[shrewd pecan]

your still in a lightly armored tank

[spring briar]

guys stop arguing
we all know you would
totally
operate
wearing NATO body armor
while using an AS VAL

[tough quail]

alright now we're bordering on just shitting on anything outside of the west as a rule

[shrewd pecan]

that's vulnerable to artillery

[warm finch]

Literally a thing.

[neon oyster]

ERA is still an upgrade even if very cheap.

[tough quail]

valid

[shrewd pecan]

and soviet AT weapons

sorry I'm a .300 black out fan

[warm finch]

Not entirely, I love me the Su-30 and T-64

[tough quail]

huge turret made of cardboard

[spring briar]

kremlin ignored my russian brunswick rifle...

[autumn sorrel]

T-55m3

[severe star]

Hes literally eastern

[manic latch]

Josh
You and your friend is basically

Nato is amazing and only good

Rest is inferior, doesn't have positive

[tough quail]

and?

[neon oyster]

But a very small target. Not great but improvement none the less. I’m sure everyone would love to have a hulldown Chally but there aren’t that many

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/466250908682944522/1125009239748911155/ezgif-5-77933decaa.gif

[shrewd pecan]

I wouldn't call the modern Czech republic eastern anymore

[autumn sorrel]

T-55m3, perk of being neutral country is that you can make deal with Israeli

[tough quail]

quacken is british and the most self-defeating wanker out there

[manic latch]

[warm finch]

I know... It´s just that the added weight is going to affect other characteristics so it´s more of a sidegrade y´know

[spring briar]

krem

[neon oyster]

Could be worse like idk sitting out in a ope field

[shrewd pecan]

also going hull down defeats the main benefit of the leopard 1

mobility

[severe star]

At least we're actually coming up with arguements and not just throwing accusations and strawmans

[warm finch]

Define eastern then.

[manic latch]

??????????

[tough quail]

you're not coming up with arguments

[manic latch]

BASELESS CLAIMS

[neon oyster]

You can try to run and gun but idk if that’s very safe

[severe star]

Hahahaha ok

[tough quail]

you just say "lol they blew up tho" and putting your fingers in your ears

[warm finch]

It has positives, I have been conceding to that. Iam just saying the west is better.

[manic latch]

Rules and consequences

[severe star]

Casualties are cold hard facts.

And as for strawmans

[tough quail]

challengers suck ass

[neon oyster]

Better than being killed by some shaped charge

[spring briar]

?
but
I showed you russian brunswick rifle!

[tough quail]

they're also my second favorite mbt

[manic latch]

No this began by "hopelessly outmatched"

[severe star]

"oh so you also think leclerc is best because you said so"

[ivory ridge]

yes

leclerc good

[manic latch]

Yes

[tough quail]

and also i argue in favor of so

[severe star]

When no one said so of us

[tough quail]

so much british shit

[warm finch]

Which I then backed up with multiple arguments.

[neon oyster]

Shush i know I’ll love them regardless

[tough quail]

exactly

[spring briar]

first of all
everything is possible through Leclerc

[severe star]

Literally strawman arguement

[manic latch]

You implied it

K:D ratio and combat losses

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, from a certain current conflict, we see more tank get knock out by arty than by direct tank combat

[warm finch]

And then I outargued you when you used your own.

[tough quail]

i have a model of a challenger 2 lol as the first one i bought of a tank

..or well

i did, before it melted

[humble mulch]

Literally

[neon oyster]

Current arty tech isn’t 80s arty

[shrewd pecan]

if only I could mention certain conflict

and how it shows the benefits of western tanks

compared to eastern ones

but still shows how eastern ones are you know

[warm finch]

Which do serve to paint a bigger picture along with a multitude of other things. You´ve only been saying words. I said flight characteristics and combat records.

[shrewd pecan]

viable/relevant

[tough quail]

i still think chieftains would've been pretty good for their time if they bothered to re-engine it

[ivory ridge]

i mean, for the russians it kinda is

[severe star]

I also said if it saw combat and had almost none to none losses and racked up plenty of kills then it's a testament of performance

[tough quail]

hell i still argue if m60s are really all that better with vae a lot

[ivory ridge]

they are way less focused on precision ammo

[severe star]

Not just blank stats

[neon oyster]

Yeah good gun and armour just god that engine

[autumn sorrel]

And now people understand why I love Pion

[severe star]

But you didn't care to listen

[shrewd pecan]

M60A3 TWS

all you need

[tough quail]

[manic latch]

203mm is great yeah

[tough quail]

just give it a normal diesel

[ivory ridge]

the main difference is with drone spotting, artillery warfare is the same otherwise

[tough quail]

everything else is good

[neon oyster]

Literally any engine

[warm finch]

He doesn´t seem to want to.

[shrewd pecan]

I looked up M60A3 in gifs and it gave me a bunch of lesbians kissing

[ivory ridge]

bar very limited used of fucked up shit like Excalibur, Bonus, smart and Vulcano

[tough quail]

no dont give it a petrol engine i will shoot you

[neon oyster]

That doesn’t break down every 10 seconds

[severe star]

My point exactly

[shrewd pecan]

I don't think that's the right M60A3

[ivory ridge]

and whatever the russian thing was i forgot the name

[neon oyster]

Interesting?

[ivory ridge]

krasnopol?

[severe star]

They're just trying to missunderstand and misinterptet us on purpose

[shrewd pecan]

yup

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

[severe star]

Ignore all our arguements and only strawman

[warm finch]

That´s like saying putting in nails is completely the same without a hammer

[shrewd pecan]

they did argue that a Leopard 1 standard

is better than T-72

[warm finch]

Which is correct.

[autumn sorrel]

It does count with 80s tech bc arty is king of battlefield and no strong point can hold out for long under heavy fire

[manic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-principal-skinner-skinner-children-out-of-touch-gif-4463952

[warm finch]

And I atleast have said so.

[severe star]

I think if you do that it's clear you lost

[shrewd pecan]

my leopard 1....

standard

without a stabilizer

or thermals

or a laser range finder

[warm finch]

@severe star What the fuck have you been telling these dudes while I was searching for things?

[manic latch]

Ok EXPLAIN WHY, WITH STATS

[neon oyster]

1 on 1 in a plain field? No
But that isn’t how wars are fought. A hull down leopard 1 can still give a headache to whoever is in command

[severe star]

Literally just ignore everything we say and throw strawmans and misinterpret on purpose

[shrewd pecan]

what is

[manic latch]

STOP REPEATING THIS

[shrewd pecan]

a leopard 1 standard

[severe star]

Nothin lmao

[shrewd pecan]

going to really do unless it gets lucky

[warm finch]

Oh I see what happened. I meant the Leopard 1A5. I didn´t understand what he meant by standard at first lmao

[neon oyster]

Depends. War is very situational always

[severe star]

There is no arguement if you don't actually argue with actual arguements so yknow what no

[neon oyster]

In this situation any NATO tank will be shooting from a prepared position

[severe star]

Just either give in and accept when you were wrong or try to come up with actual arguements instead

[autumn sorrel]

I gonna throw it down. Your argument about which tank are better is pointless when I have a battery of Pion.

[shrewd pecan]

that is uhhhh

wishful thinking

and not what you know

what they actually planned on doing

[warm finch]

Your battery is pointless if I own the skies.

[autumn sorrel]

Counter point, 152mm and 203mm

[neon oyster]

Good luck hitting a tank with 80s tech

[severe star]

Like all you've been repeating is leclerc this and oh durr you're wrong

[grave ravine]

yeah, the shooting from prepared positions only is defeatist 60s mentality

[shrewd pecan]

that is

[severe star]

Not a single actual counter arguement

[shrewd pecan]

doable actually

[neon oyster]

[severe star]

Oh yeah and a reaction meme

[autumn sorrel]

You forget about my air defense network

[severe star]

Very mature

[shrewd pecan]

it was doable with 1910s artillery man

[tough quail]

i cant believe optics exist

[neon oyster]

Well how many rounds for 1 tank?

[grave ravine]

and well the Soviets had a lot of artillery

[autumn sorrel]

Good luck stay alive and hunker down

[shrewd pecan]

why does it matter?

[severe star]

Like I'm pretty much done here are we @warm finch ? Theres no use to argue with a wall

[grave ravine]

lots of very good artillery

[warm finch]

Do you forget my ridiculous amount of pretty modern SEAD tech?

[shrewd pecan]

when I have a 9 gun battery firing at my target

[neon oyster]

While u charge at us

[warm finch]

Where there´s a will. There´s a wall.

[autumn sorrel]

Less than you might be thinking actually, especially if your tank are static

[severe star]

A very sturdy wall ngl

[neon oyster]

If you’re shooting like 100 rounds for 1 tank I don’t think your supplies officer would be very happy

[tough quail]

you should probably stop arguing nonsense with people who actually know better than you if you're not even going to put up a better argument then "well they jobbed in a proxy war"

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/957895213714661376/1125852325957881887/JetFuel.mov

[autumn sorrel]

You forget who you are fighting against

[shrewd pecan]

it costs me less to shell it to death then it costs for a new tank

[warm finch]

Oh please we barely got the change to said anything and they´re throwing bricks at us with no actual argument to them.

[autumn sorrel]

It actually a very good ratio

[severe star]

"who actually know better"
I havent seen a single counter arguement, just your leclerc strawman and "you're wrong read a book" "you're brainrot"

[neon oyster]

Fair but u need to spot them first. That means they’re probably already firing

[severe star]

Please, enlighten me

I'm still waiting

[grave ravine]

then again thats not what really matters, what really matters is how much can 100 shells do to the enemy vs how much can an active tank do to you

in which case it still makes sense to shell the tank

but I digress

[tough quail]

you're still waiting because you're willingfully turning your brain off to the ones that have been made. repeatedly.

[shrewd pecan]

yeah its almost like artillery units have had multiple ways of achieving that for decades

[neon oyster]

Yeah calling in arty will take minutes at least. How much can a leopard 2 do to a row of t72s?

[tough quail]

do you mean 2s or 1s

[grave ravine]

also you don't necessarily have to directly hit a tank, the large numbers of leo 1s are vulnerable to fragments from the side from a not insignificant distance

[shrewd pecan]

again leopard 1s are lightly armored

[grave ravine]

If calling arty takes minutes, you are shit

the soviets were not shit

[autumn sorrel]

Well, even if it wasn’t a direct hit, fragmentation actually do nasty stuff to anything that isn’t in an armor box like early optic and it can even dmg the barrel

[grave ravine]

or you know just pen the sides of a leo 1

[neon oyster]

Well u tell me how long spotting given cords loading and delivering takes

And adjustments

[humble mulch]

Depends on priority of call

[shrewd pecan]

there's a lot of factors

[humble mulch]

Probably has a lot a variables

[autumn sorrel]

You really underestimate soviet artillerist, the leader maybe a bunch of pig but the men are very well trained

[shrewd pecan]

but generally for most of history the main killers of tanks have been

artillery

[neon oyster]

Great conscripts depends on division probably

[humble mulch]

Yeah they are slow moving and need to be transported so arty can hit them every step of the way

[shrewd pecan]

again a tank can be spotted in multiple states of either mobility or combat

[autumn sorrel]

Scout and trained artillerist are not conscripts

[shrewd pecan]

a tank isn't always moving

[manic latch]

Well 1) If Leo2 is attacker, she has more chance of going into minefield and artillery than tank engagement

2. If it's tank vs tank, then even if Leo2 can handle a 72 1v1, can she really do much if there is 3 72 looking at her?

[shrewd pecan]

and a hull down tank is a vulnerable tank to artillery fires

tank on tank engagements aren't really the norm and for a cold war scenario the main anti tank threats are going to be artillery, mainfields, infantry and aircraft

[neon oyster]

Yeah tanks do more than fight tanks

[shrewd pecan]

I will point out that the T-72s are about as likely to die to minefields or artillery as the leopard 2 is

[manic latch]

No MBT track can survive a anti tank mine or 150mm artillery yeah

Then you become sitting duck

If you survive

[shrewd pecan]

at that point you're just gonna abandon the tank

[humble mulch]

Fr

[manic latch]

Yup

[neon oyster]

Arty go boom

[shrewd pecan]

doesn't matter go grab a new one

you can recover it later

[tough quail]

like ~right now~

[grave ravine]

that being said T-72 is somewhat more vulnerable to artillery fragments than an Abrams or Leo 2, but significantly less so than Leo 1

[tough quail]

err

by what metric?

[grave ravine]

somewhat worse side armor

[neon oyster]

I doubt a t72 can be taken out by shrapnel

[tough quail]

...what

[manic latch]

Roof armor also matters I think, what's the roof armor of Leo1

[tough quail]

t-72s have like

2-3x as much side armor

[grave ravine]

you underestimate 155 shrapnel

[neon oyster]

If it’s a direct hit your probably dead anyways

[shrewd pecan]

you can knock out a tank with shrapnel damage

[ivory ridge]

tanks are boring post wheeled vehicles with big guns

[humble mulch]

If it’s a near miss it’ll still fuck up the tank but the crew can probably make it

[tough quail]

leo2s and abrams have effectively cardboard for side armor

[shrewd pecan]

lemme find the South Korean MGS

[tough quail]

whereas t-72s still have mid cold war style 70mm+ slabs

[autumn sorrel]

Hardly but the optic will be hurt quite bad, there is a reason for T-72B3M get a better armored box for it thermal optics.

[grave ravine]

By the late 80s western MBTs were getting composite skirts which boosted it above that of the T-72

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/rotem_jupiter.htm

[tough quail]

"composite skirts"

[ivory ridge]

last year there was a scale model of the korean IFV with the centauro 2 turret

[tough quail]

no they were not

[neon oyster]

Drive out or bail then. Crew isn’t dead that’s what’s important

[shrewd pecan]

this post made me pop a nerve for unrelated reasons (war thunder damage models)

[manic latch]

Did they fixed Chal's issue of blinding the gunner if there is a mud on laser rangefinder

[tough quail]

iirc even the horrifying chungus chally 2 boxes aren't actually composite

people just assumed they were because they're enormous

[ivory ridge]

it's nera

[autumn sorrel]

Well, that’s the point of increasing crew survivability

[tough quail]

oh

then that was just someone lying then

good to know

[ivory ridge]

but it's only good vs chemical

[tough quail]

but yeah, in the 80s? lawd no nobody was carrying side kits that yuge

[ivory ridge]

mostly

[autumn sorrel]

I though they fix it in mk3

[grave ravine]

On the base M1

[tough quail]

that's.. not composite

that's just a side skirt lol

[grave ravine]

Its "special armor"

[humble mulch]

That’s spaced armor is it not?

[tough quail]

yeah its special alright

[grave ravine]

supposed to be like 2x as effective as the standard steel skirts at the back of the tank

[manic latch]

Even highest Nato IFV protection standards find 10m 155mm HE greatest level

So yeah 155mm near 5m just disables you

[humble mulch]

Yeah

Well think about it

[grave ravine]

yeah 155 fragments are hella lethal

[humble mulch]

Your fucking tracks

[shrewd pecan]

ah LAV-700 and Vextra my beloved

[humble mulch]

[neon oyster]

Tbh I like how og Centauro looks

[ivory ridge]

La creatura

[grave ravine]

not even tracks, it will straight go through the sides of most stuff

[ivory ridge]

horse do you know what this is

[grave ravine]

if it lands close

[autumn sorrel]

Now I know why in Foxholes, my tank constantly got track when under arty fire

[humble mulch]

Yeah that too

[tough quail]

yeah im gonna be real w/ you im gonna go ahead and take the tank with 3x as much side hull armor and a rubber skirt slathered in K1 instead

if we're talking about which is more vulnerable to artillery fragments

[autumn sorrel]

Well, the solution would be not to be spotted in the first place

[manic latch]

Vs Mines, Abrams?

Vs Artillery, T-80?

[shrewd pecan]

abrams for either

[tough quail]

oh yeah the west is better off vs mines for sure

[shrewd pecan]

universally abrams unless K2 is a option

that or Leclerc

[autumn sorrel]

K3 when

[tough quail]

vs arty no

[shrewd pecan]

if I die in a tank I will die stylish in a K2 or Leclerc

[tough quail]

unless we're talking about direct hits for.. some reason

in which case they both die

[manic latch]

She has more side armor?

[tough quail]

no

[ivory ridge]

also i didnt even know this existed thanks

to the list it goes

[shrewd pecan]

no I am just a abrams supremacist

[tough quail]

you know what

valid

[neon oyster]

[tough quail]

anyway fuck abrams

fuck t-72s

fuck leclercs even

[autumn sorrel]

So return to infantry?

[shrewd pecan]

pulling up to the motor pool in style

[ivory ridge]

i fucking despise this thing

but it has a 105mm armed version

[autumn sorrel]

Is that South Africa?

[tough quail]

no

[ivory ridge]

UAE

[tough quail]

discuss the cock and balls challenger instead

[autumn sorrel]

Never know that they make stuff

[shrewd pecan]

the MGS challenger

[neon oyster]

my love

[ivory ridge]

look at this and tell me god exists

you cant

[tough quail]

what the FUCK is this

[autumn sorrel]

Is it a tank or a MGS?

[neon oyster]

I’d probably kill myself if I saw that on the field

[shrewd pecan]

I am calling it that purely due to the turret layout

[ivory ridge]

bmp turret on that horribad chassis

[tough quail]

why

Why?

[neon oyster]

The hell

[ivory ridge]

bro

the UAE

is like

[autumn sorrel]

As in BMP3 turret from a perfectly fine BMP3?

[ivory ridge]

drowning

in bmp3 turrets

[ivory ridge]

did you know where else they put one?

[autumn sorrel]

Their patrol boat?

[ivory ridge]

unless you know about it you will never guess

[shrewd pecan]

HOLD ON WHAT

[neon oyster]

I don’t even want to know what they have have done to the hull

[humble mulch]

Tato what is that

[manic latch]

Dayum

[tough quail]

dude thats sick

[grave ravine]

they also got this shit

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.militarytoday.com/apc/rotem_scorpion.htm

[autumn sorrel]

South Korean APC

[humble mulch]

Dudes got a whole gaming rig

[ivory ridge]

do you know what that is

[humble mulch]

Based

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/651823796453638144/1036911307661787156/uncaption.gif

[autumn sorrel]

They put it on a BMP1

[ivory ridge]

it's

not a bmp

[shrewd pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/bill-koth-king-of-the-hill-blinds-closing-blinds-gif-20910461

[tough quail]

fucking command and conquer superweapon lookin shit

[ivory ridge]

it's a fucking

OF-40

[tough quail]

is that a leo-

okay

OF-40

[neon oyster]

That thing would light up beautifully from counter battery

[manic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-senator-armstrong-armstrong-gif-25165246

[tough quail]

holy fuck

[grave ravine]

I want to know what went through the ROKETSAN engineer's heads when they were told to make a 240 tube MLRS

[ivory ridge]

leo 1a6

[autumn sorrel]

Wait, the tank?

[ivory ridge]

[humble mulch]

South Korea’s new NATO ad

[ivory ridge]

actually no the Leopard 1a6 is the Ariete

[tough quail]

arietes look too cool to be called leopards

[autumn sorrel]

NGL, I want this

[manic latch]

When you have to turn

[autumn sorrel]

Coke, lots of cokes

[ivory ridge]

anyway back for more wheels

[neon oyster]

Are you implying leopards aren’t cool

[grave ravine]

The UAE has a kinda absurd rocket artillery park

[autumn sorrel]

Look like a truck driver, they are surprisingly mobile if you have a experienced driver

[manic latch]

Yay

[humble mulch]

Stop

[autumn sorrel]

Leo 2, yes. Leo 1 was never cool

[ivory ridge]

the only big gun wheeled vehicle from the soviets

[neon oyster]

Cri

[humble mulch]

Does that track lower

[ivory ridge]

maybe one day

[tough quail]

not as cool looking im sorry

[grave ravine]

Wheeled heavy IFV based off of T-64

[neon oyster]

I love how this thing looks. Just very appealing

[ivory ridge]

ah yes ukraine-made horros beeyond human comprehension

[autumn sorrel]

Now this just dumb

[neon oyster]

Looks like a fat crusader

[shrewd pecan]

70 tons with a 25 MM bushmaster btw

[autumn sorrel]

Kharkiv engineer are on par with UAE

[shrewd pecan]

"In November 2012, estimates of the GCV's weight, depending on armor packages, put the General Dynamics entry vehicle at 64–70 tons, and the BAE Systems entry vehicle at 70–84 tons. This made the planned infantry fighting vehicle designs heavier than the M1 Abrams tank."

[tough quail]

[autumn sorrel]

If that heavy then I want at least 40mm bofors

[ivory ridge]

bumerang with 2s25 turret

too bad both vehicles were like

[shrewd pecan]

bumerang is like

[ivory ridge]

built in very small quantities

[tough quail]

tfw no sprut-centauros

[shrewd pecan]

the only modern Russian vehicle I like the look of

[ivory ridge]

or well, i should say good

but still

[shrewd pecan]

beyond the like

typhoon/gaz tigr MRAPs

[tough quail]

finally

ukraine invented the only good british tank

[manic latch]

Does 120mm mortar count

[autumn sorrel]

This still haunt my dream

[ivory ridge]

no

when 8 wheels isnt enough

[humble mulch]

Lol

[tough quail]

oh i didnt know there were btr nonas

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, the Nona. No ideal why Vietnam didn't ask for this, they are perfectly suited for us.

[humble mulch]

How well do they turn?

[shrewd pecan]

PIHRANA 10x10 MY BELOVED

[tough quail]

all my experience dicking around on regiments has taught me nonas are incredibly based

just having them exist kills everyone ded

[grave ravine]

BMPT-64

[ivory ridge]

Patria hitfact my beloved

[humble mulch]

I fuck with that one

[spring briar]

@humble mulch pin pls

[ivory ridge]

tea dont fuck the exhaust it's not hygenic

[tough quail]

lmfao

[autumn sorrel]

120mm mortar round is deadly

[tough quail]

[grave ravine]

BMPV-64

[tough quail]

everyone needs more mortars

[autumn sorrel]

[ivory ridge]

cv90 turret?

[shrewd pecan]

no idea

[ivory ridge]

looks like the cv90 40mm

[manic latch]

Perfect

[manic latch]

Wanna see what happens when I put 76mm

[shrewd pecan]

want to know what did have a CV-90 turret on it?

[tough quail]

Oh No

[manic latch]

[ivory ridge]

Rosomak with cockerill 120 vs Rosomak with Hitfact 120 who wins

[grave ravine]

MTLB

[autumn sorrel]

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, it could be worse

[manic latch]

M10 Booker with wheels

[ivory ridge]

so a 105 LAV

[manic latch]

Perhaps

[grave ravine]

yes but this is supposed to be one of their primary SPAAGs

[tough quail]

nevermind i love it

this is gods ultimate technical

[manic latch]

MTLB with Turkish-made (ASELSAN) SARP-DUAL combat module is stronger

[autumn sorrel]

Wait, who use them?

[grave ravine]

Transnistria

[tough quail]

it could be worse, then

[humble mulch]

Lmao

[tough quail]

given they have a budget of like

two dollars

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, that's explain a lot, beggars can't be chooser

[humble mulch]

Yeah dude they have something cool so I’m proud of them

[tribal mortar]

howitzer on wheels

[tough quail]

the truth is out there

[manic latch]

Imagine if all Abrams were actually MTLBs

[grave ravine]

Cool transnistrian homemade IFVs

[spring briar]

anyone want to see muzzle loading rifles?

[humble mulch]

Yeah those are pretty cool looking

[ivory ridge]

the t-14 is just a dressed up t-72 and you cant change my mind

/s

[humble mulch]

Nice to see indigenous designs

[autumn sorrel]

Krem, how hard is it for Russia to restart MTLB production line or they better off making something new?

[grave ravine]

Transnistrian tank destroyer unit rolling in

[autumn sorrel]

If you sent me into a modern war with a SPG9, I will.....

[shrewd pecan]

could be worse

[ivory ridge]

considering unless Romania or Ukraine get weird ideas (which tbh i did see float around on the internet...) their only enemy would be Moldova which is like

[shrewd pecan]

could be the ones using the 100 MM anti tank guns

[ivory ridge]

in an even worse spot

it's not too bad

[grave ravine]

no, this is a lot worse

the 100mms can fire sabot and GLATGMs

[humble mulch]

Does Moldva just let them exist?

[shrewd pecan]

Russia has troops in Transistra

[humble mulch]

Cause like aren’t they one of those “not” states?

Oh

[shrewd pecan]

they only exist

[humble mulch]

That explains it

[shrewd pecan]

due to Russian meddling

[autumn sorrel]

They were originally Soviet minelaying vehicle

[tribal mortar]

"Peacekeeping Forces"

[manic latch]

Start something new, especially for future module upgrade potential

[humble mulch]

Good use for them then

[grave ravine]

My beloved lada technical

[autumn sorrel]

Tranistra have the majority of old Soviet armory so they got a leg up when they declare independence

[tribal mortar]

Yes

[manic latch]

@ivory ridge combine this

[ivory ridge]

https://twitter.com/Win98Tech/status/1676596869647020033

windows 98 Tech Support (@Win98Tech)

Woke up

Learned there's nuclear bomb deniers

Went back to bed

Likes

31113

Retweets

2430

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 5, 2023, 2:20 PM

[autumn sorrel]

Shame, I quite the MTLB platform

[manic latch]

It's from 60s. It's time to go

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, I saw that too, pretty dumb ass

[autumn sorrel]

The old girl give all her best

[grave ravine]

who can guess what vehicle this is based on

[tribal mortar]

It was an airburst bruh

[ivory ridge]

that date and font

[grave ravine]

yeah its from Oryx

[manic latch]

Kurganets-25 should be the main replacement for BMP, BMD, MTLB. It's a great fresh start

And like

Actually better

[shrewd pecan]

I don't think its replacing the BMDs

[ivory ridge]

terminator on an even more expensive platform

yeah that will go well

[shrewd pecan]

that's the T-15

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

Oi termi ain't IFV

[shrewd pecan]

the Kurganets-25 is the uhhhh

more sensible one there probably never gonna end up putting into service anyways

[grave ravine]

both T-15 and Kurganets are way to heavy to replace BMD

[autumn sorrel]

MTLB still make a better platform for supply unit, you don't always need an IFV chassis if your job is just carrying supply.

[grave ravine]

we have kinda gotten to the point where you can't make a good airborne IFV

[manic latch]

T-15 is like Namer, it's so damn expensive for its production

[ivory ridge]

just because they say it isnt it doesnt mean it isnt

[shrewd pecan]

I mean I think it would be better if the VDV were equipped like actual mech infantry and didn't hold onto some airborne doctrine Russia doesn't even have the strategic mobility to support

but one can only dream I susppose

[grave ravine]

yeah it would

[manic latch]

What's the best airborne IFV

I don't know

[grave ravine]

I mean BMD-4M, by virtue of being better than the other BMDs

cuz nobody else makes airborne IFVs

[shrewd pecan]

airborne IFV as a doctrine choice is just

dumb

[grave ravine]

yep

[manic latch]

Then yeah BMD should just die

[grave ravine]

airborne is light infantry

[manic latch]

Concept is dead

[shrewd pecan]

like generally

Russia does not have the air assets to deploy the VDV in considerable numbers with their vehicles

[grave ravine]

and even if they did it would still be very questionable

[shrewd pecan]

they would of been better off doing what either the Soviets did in Afghanistan and requipping them with BMPS and proper tanks

or what Ukraine did which is you know

[autumn sorrel]

Hard to change an org that are so proud of their tradition like VDV and do you really want to piss off a elite force that can overthrown you by making them normal like other infantry formation.

[grave ravine]

yeah, cuz they are one of the best infantry forces in the modern russian army

[tough quail]

they just cancelled it

[ivory ridge]

what in the goddamn did i just gind

[shrewd pecan]

making a light infantry airborne unit and converting the rest to proper mech infantry

[grave ravine]

despite the memes made about them

[tough quail]

to go with the dragoon instead

like they should have years ago

[shrewd pecan]

I mean they made it easy by sending both the active duty VDV and the Veterans organizations to their deaths

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

Feels more on hold but perhaps

[shrewd pecan]

anyway enough about that

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, maybe after the war end, VDV will be downsized to a more reasonable force

[tough quail]

no im pretty sure they 1:1 cancelled it to build draguns instead

[shrewd pecan]

its not even downsizing its

reequipping it and adjusting doctrine

[tough quail]

because kurganets gives like, no extra benefit over them

while being a bigger pain in the ass to get moving

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, they could be equip along the line of Naval Infantry

[ivory ridge]

Centauro 2 in brazilian camouflage colors

[tough quail]

a big issue with the russian MoD is they got it in their head that everything soviet sucked ass and demanded a complete 100% break from anything using soviet era parts

leading to them developing a ton of redundant shit

and now the ultra attrition pain festival is making them realize "wait this is fucking stupid"

[autumn sorrel]

Who initiative was that? The guy before Shoigu?

[tough quail]

a lot of people across the government in general

i think it was a whole optics circlejerk

look! its all brand new that means its better!

fund our bullshit!

[spring briar]

is this a car for americans?

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, BTG and the new stuff are suited for a low level intensity and proxy war, not a full blown total war

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1058642198100455456/1062849258539204728/WIDERPLINK.gif

[manic latch]

Yeah it's was just a weird decision

A full clean slate

Replace everything Soviet

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

[autumn sorrel]

Well, considering how badly they perform in Georgia, a war that they won, it might affect some upper level leader thinking.

[ivory ridge]

anyway gaijin pls

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-stare-funny-gif-26367587

[tough quail]

https://twitter.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1659684326718468096

Andrei_bt (@AndreiBtvt)

"Kurganets" is dead, long live "Manul"
Rostec reports that the latest Manul infantry fighting vehicle will soon enter production. The vehicle is a BMP-3 converted for front placement of engine. 40 years have passed and finally realized?

Likes

1357

Retweets

196

Twitter · May 19, 2023, 10:15 PM

[autumn sorrel]

But it is weird that they talk about improving comm but never really invest in it

[shrewd pecan]

gaijin please make T series tanks actually spall

[ivory ridge]

manul

no way

the funny cat

[shrewd pecan]

BMP WITHOUT HULL GUNNERS?!

[autumn sorrel]

A very dealy cat

[ivory ridge]

which for some reason a lot of racists on twitter like to associate with

[shrewd pecan]

impossible

[warm finch]

Centauro 2 in brazilian camouflage

[manic latch]

Oh no

[autumn sorrel]

Wait what?

[ivory ridge]

fat fingered?

[manic latch]

Bruh he asking tea in threads

[ivory ridge]

lmao

[manic latch]

Lmao

[ivory ridge]

yeah

weird stuff

[grave ravine]

M2A4 but cast hulled

[autumn sorrel]

Why? why cute cat mean racist?

[tough quail]

the baffling thing is that this thing was ready to go

nearly a decade ago

[ivory ridge]

look at how aesthetic this is

[tough quail]

but its soviet so we cannae use

dumbasses

[manic latch]

Kiss

[autumn sorrel]

It was a promising time

[ivory ridge]

they just werent meant to be

[tough quail]

but they're so fucking cool

[ivory ridge]

mockup

[tough quail]

turbo science

[autumn sorrel]

I really don't want to know about how its deal with recoil

[ivory ridge]

India what you doin

[autumn sorrel]

DRDO

[ivory ridge]

[grave ravine]

Arjun has such a goofy ERA layout

[manic latch]

Arjun's history is goofy

[autumn sorrel]

I can already hear a certain eastern european youtuber talking about blowout panel

[ivory ridge]

anyway i forgot to explain this thing

it's a vextra with a leclerc turret

[grave ravine]

Boat IFV

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, it is quite reasonable and cheap

[grave ravine]

shame they never actually built the tank variant

[autumn sorrel]

The artist guy really need to relearn how tank turret and mast work

[grave ravine]

lol yeah

[spring briar]

undy is inside

[humble mulch]

It’s just supposed to look cool

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/i-live-in-your-walls-i-know-where-you-live-meme-cat-caption-gif-25921313

[humble mulch]

I remember when that idea first got announced tho, makes sense for them

[manic latch]

Batmobile

[manic latch]

Soviets didn't liked wheels much since snow

Btr cute at least

[tough quail]

[misty umbra]

Just the turret sounds french

[ivory ridge]

the turret is french

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLIxDPD_92Y

[manic latch]

@tough quail AMX VCI Ambulance

[tough quail]

Bruh

[manic latch]

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/sensors-electronic-warfare/uk-signs-contract-ready-new-eurofighter-typhoon-aesa-radar

[eternal veldt]

HMS Surprise approaching her next victim. She's flying false colors hoping to get within range to bring her full broadside to bear. Captain Aubrey expects if all works well revealing her guns will intimidate the enemy into surrendering.

[wintry moat]

Lol

[runic prairie]

Doesn’t look at the server for 18 hours

1956 messages

Anyways have a diagram of beam-riding and SARH guidance for Terrier and RIM-67 Standard-ER respectively.

[maiden citrus]

same

[shrewd pecan]

horrible horrible arguments

[runic prairie]

Yeah jeez. I didn’t see everything but goddamn.

[somber knoll]

insert Tempesta hopium mantra here

[glass trail]

dont even have to be gone 18 hours, i think 8 wouldve been sufficient...

[runic prairie]

I have to ask. Does the abbreviation “kt” for a knot bother anyone else?

Every time I read it I automatically think “kiloton” as in nuclear weapon yield rather than “knots”.

[manic latch]

@tough quail Tato and Krem today

[tough quail]

wheeze

[somber knoll]

r/whoosh

[autumn sorrel]

Imagine Krem but without the knowledge and even worse attitude

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

I can assure you NATO forces in a cold war gone hot conventional war would totally take minimum losses and be able to wipe the Warsaw pact without any air losses

(the entire argument earlier was essentially NATO's technology edge somehow give them a gulf war scale victory against the Warsaw Pact)

[runic prairie]

Good training, good planning, and good leadership is more important than technological superiority (to a point, the Wehrmacht can’t beat 1991 Iraq).

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

combat is chaos and shit happens

[runic prairie]

True

[shrewd pecan]

you can have the best training in the world but old artillery guns can still knock you out

[runic prairie]

From what I’ve seen a lot of that has to do with good planning with mine warfare on the part of the Russians.

Yeah

[shrewd pecan]

breaching operations are the riskest type you can undertake

and there attempting it without air or fires supremacy

even the US Army thinks its gonna take at least 30% casualties in a breaching operation

artillery, mines and attack helicopters are a bad combo to go against no matter who you're

yup

[strong plank]

let them cook

[junior trench]

You haven't been looking very hard

Have you

[shrewd pecan]

but again

this will likely have to be a discussion for else where

[autumn sorrel]

I have other live priority and Visegrad kinda busy with France at the moment

[shrewd pecan]

at the mommy?

[autumn sorrel]

Auto correct for some reason

[manic latch]

[autumn sorrel]

Must be all those talk about fdg

[junior trench]

Why are you single sourcing

[autumn sorrel]

Poor girl

[spring briar]

She’s getting repaired tho

[stone dock]

[cinder escarp]

The crew they have on the texas is... very dedicated to keeping her in shape.

[runic prairie]

Rawdoging it.

[misty umbra]

I know
I'm french myself

https://tenor.com/view/orson-welles-welles-orson-pas-mal-cest-français-gif-13761350

[spring briar]

Très bien

[misty umbra]

Supériorité française

[spring briar]

Don’t go full nationalist on me now

[misty umbra]

How did you guess that ?

[spring briar]

UvH…

[misty umbra]

[spring briar]

Alisa

[ivory ridge]

[warm finch]

The Marines really just went "fuck Saddam" didn't they?

[severe star]

https://youtu.be/d8wtOVujLB0

Literally this

The wiki page is just a goldmine

[warm finch]

Inferior Uralvagonzavod drawing vs Superior Chrysler engineering

[severe star]

https://tenor.com/view/nato-countryballs-gif-25585419

[grave ravine]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/500747383165157378/1126508934593781791/S1581_10.JPG

From Drach's server

[eternal veldt]

https://www.navy.gov.au/media-room/publications/wwii-damage-control There's a whole series on that. You can check the rest out here.

[manic latch]

[warm finch]

Hon hon hon

[tribal mortar]

When you send the baltic fleet to the pacific to fight the japanese

What happened here

[autumn sorrel]

Fisher got to prove his concept of BC when Spee got absolutely mopped

[tribal mortar]

Ah

Dreadnoughts

[wintry moat]

Spee killed an admiral and Destroyed a small force

And the Brit’s decided enough was enough

[tribal mortar]

My bad you said BC

Battlecruisers?

[autumn sorrel]

And BC prove their worth as cruiser killer and hunting down German raiders

[autumn sorrel]

Yes

[tribal mortar]

Ok

[warm finch]

Which inturn foreshadowed their shortcomings at the battle of Jutland

[autumn sorrel]

More like the admiralty got into their head that BC is perfectly fine as screening force and participate in line of battle

[tribal mortar]

What happens when you mess with the Gulf of Aden

[warm finch]

Well, to be completely fair, a similar stunt worked for them during the Ottoman wars I believe this was during Katherine the Great

[eternal veldt]

Jutland's BCs are mostly hampered by literal suicidal practices, with armour being secondary in their destruction

[warm finch]

Which is what caused their downfall, foreshadowing it in its own way.

[severe star]

Pirates in their stupid little boat when a warship turns up

[autumn sorrel]

Tbf, they have to pick between firing faster or safety practice

[eternal veldt]

To enhance their rate of fire, the battlecruisers removed flash protection doors from their magazines to the bulkheads and turrets

Or just straight up stored munitions in places where they shouldn't be

[warm finch]

Yes, whoevers brilliant idea was that, good job

[autumn sorrel]

You might be surprised how common it is in military

[tribal mortar]

Pirates in their skiff when an American Destroyer shows up

[eternal veldt]

Coupled with absolute dogshit British shell design that is literally from 1870, and an admiral that can't communicate well

You have more than a big issue on hand

[severe star]

Honestly questioning why we don't just outright go out and sink all the pirates in their little skiffs at this point

[autumn sorrel]

Mogadishu

[eternal veldt]

How do you know it is a pirate boat?

[warm finch]

Iam not, going past safety precautions to improve combat effectiveness has been a thing since the literal actual fuckin romans

[eternal veldt]

Damn, that guy is in a sampan, must be a pirate

[severe star]

The AKs and RPGs they're approaching freighters with

[eternal veldt]

You can't neutralize the threat entirely though, other than the patrols that are happening

[autumn sorrel]

Even with bino, you can’t spot gun under fishing net

[warm finch]

Somalia has a huge fucking coastline bro

[eternal veldt]

Piracy has been and will be a problem

[tribal mortar]

Somalia had no government for like 10 years

[severe star]

Yeah Somalia has big time issues

[tribal mortar]

30 year civil war

[eternal veldt]

The British kinda overcorrected themselves after Jutland

[severe star]

But I meant like always bothering to arrest, obviously not fixing it when shipping companies are already hiring PMCs to shoot these guys on approach

[eternal veldt]

Partially why the KGV's 14" guns jammed quite a bit earlier in their operation

There's an incredible amount of flash protection measures in place to avoid another Jutland scenario

[autumn sorrel]

It is a risk. You can’t simply police or completely eradicate piracy

[warm finch]

I mean, wasn't the death tally something like 3 survivors per every lost battlecruiser?

[severe star]

Well it's just a sad reality that just arresting them wont fix it or the issues that lead to them becoming pirates

[autumn sorrel]

[eternal veldt]

Nearly full crew losses for the battlecruisers, if thats what you mean, yes

Which can happen to any ship that has a catastrophic magazine detonation

[autumn sorrel]

Well, you could try UN approach but it always a dumbass idea

[tribal mortar]

Me trying to understand great war naval battles is hard

[severe star]

Not too well versed in Jutland but yeah, horrific losses on all sides

[autumn sorrel]

Well, you have to sortie out to find the enemy, bait him and make damn well sure hit him.

[severe star]

Didn't they literally forget about one of their units, Jagdotville?

[tribal mortar]

All I can think of is the sabaton song

[autumn sorrel]

Bureaucrat and politicians, they only care if it make them look good

[severe star]

Yup

[eternal veldt]

Naval battles in general are long lulls of nothing

A short period of intense action, then lulls of nothing again

[autumn sorrel]

And not forgot, more like unwilling to commit

[warm finch]

Found it, at Jutland Queen Mary had nine survivors, Invincible six and Indefatigable had two

[autumn sorrel]

Ammo det is apocalyptic and even if you manage to get under water, the chance of rescuing is slim when a battle is raging on

[eternal veldt]

That is not the major issue

Catastrophic hull loss typically involves sudden structural collapse and water coming in to fill in that void inside the collasped structure

[warm finch]

That's why regular battleships have them principally well protected. Just the luck of Beattys squadron that they had battlecruisers which kinda said "fuck that"

[eternal veldt]

Meaning, water inrush typically blocks your route of escape, and even if you jump overboard, the water will suck you in hard

If you get caught in that, it's over

[autumn sorrel]

Physics is really scary sometimes

[eternal veldt]

You get dragged below, your lungs then collapse from water pressure

And you drown

And if that is not enough, later oil fired ships just leak oil and set the seas ablaze

And if you're unlucky enough to have a ship armed with delth charges on board, you really have to try your damnedest to get away from the wreck

Because those things will go off when the wreck gets deep enough and the shockwave crushes your organs

Shipwrecks bad

(and then you also have cases of men dying from blood loss, hypothermia, dementia, dehydration, sharks, or a vicious enemy if you somehow survive the initial ordeal - see Samar and the loss of Indianapolis)

[wintry moat]

god the Loss of Indy is such a tragedy

[eternal veldt]

British battlecruisers emphssize upon speed and firepower, and Germans rely a bit more on armour and speed, with sacrifices being a smaller gun caliber.

[wintry moat]

Did they ever find Indy’s wreck?

[eternal veldt]

The major issue is that the British shells don't actully fucking work.

[wintry moat]

I know she kept chugging after she was intially hit

[eternal veldt]

They did. Low oxygen environments preserved the ship in relatively decent condition.

[wintry moat]

it’s part of why she sank so fast

[eternal veldt]

You can still see the writing on the ammo boxes of the wreck.

[wintry moat]

Damn

you ever read ‘In Harms Way’

Read that back in 10th for a class assignment

[warm finch]

Yes I believe the thing being german battlecruisers are uparmoured cruisers while british battlecruisers are down armoured battleships

[eternal veldt]

It isnt really the case. Invincible as built was classified as an armoured cruiser.

[wintry moat]

the Invincible and Indegefatigable had only like 4 inches of fore belt of armor

[eternal veldt]

Its more of a different approach to the speed question.

[autumn sorrel]

Different philosophy when it come to BC, German favor battleline service for their BC more while Brit focus on anti raiders

[eternal veldt]

I wish I had, but Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors and some of the unsavoury shit done to civilian ships by a certain nation already has my stomach churning.

[wintry moat]

McKay got fucked so hard man

Lose your ship, no one answers your distress calls, then you take the blame for the Ships loss

[warm finch]

Eeeh potatoe potatoh

[eternal veldt]

Some suspect it was King's way of getting back at McVay's father, who snubbed King earlier.

And knowing King, he's...always angry.

[wintry moat]

huh

that makes that even worse

poor Indy was nearly blasted in half,

There wasn’t a whole lot to be done

[autumn sorrel]

Maybe not that petty but King definitely not gonna hear out any other explanation

[wintry moat]

Ok

so, I remember something about the US knew about subs being active in the area or something

[warm finch]

Different needs, the germans needed to use their entire navy to actually be able to challenge the grand fleet. The British needed to make sure the germans don't do that unhindered

[autumn sorrel]

Well, you got most of the point

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-IpkZLbTcg

[runic prairie]

Skyraider keeps winning.

[spring briar]

@tough quail @manic latch

[tough quail]

thats rad

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

Inkerman was
yeah...

The French and British had rifles

the Russians had smoothbore muskets

friggin sad

[manic latch]

"While the allies could have taken this opportunity to attack Sevastopol before Sevastopol could be put into a proper state of defence, the allied commanders, British general FitzRoy Somerset, 1st Baron Raglan and the French commander François Certain Canrobert could not agree on a plan of attack"

Classic

[spring briar]

I'm simply researching rifle muskets Krem
you'll always end up at the Crimea war

and the ACW

[warm finch]

Let's be real. The AI broke in the Crimean war.

Be it the thin red line incident ™️ or the war overall, its like somebody turned off that the AI will be making senseful decisions.

[maiden cradle]

Damn

[spring briar]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwb5sQJRqYE

[runic prairie]

Hellcat with a Sparrow I missile. -1950.

[spring briar]

@tough quail

[tough quail]

[spring briar]

Man hit the bullseye at 100 yards with what is basically artillery

Considering the trajectory

[tough quail]

what an absolute hero

[rapid junco]

Fw58 "Weihe"

[manic latch]

Aim-9X loading

[tribal mortar]

They’re ready to shoot down another balloon

[manic latch]

@spring briar @tough quail

[spring briar]

Cute

[glass trail]

avrora? no, abpopa

[tough quail]

splendid

[eternal veldt]

Escort Carrier USS Thetis Bay taking PBY Catalinas, F6F Hellcats, and one J2F Duck from Hawaii to Alameda for repairs, 8 July 1944

[manic latch]

@tough quail New Tu-160 modernization (Tu-160M) entered test flights

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/BAESystemsInc/status/1677020911730319371

BAE Systems, Inc. (@BAESystemsInc)

#NEWS 📰: BAE Systems was awarded a $37 million U.S. Department of Defense Ordnance Technology Consortium (DOTC) contract to design the Next Generation Evolved SeaSparrow Missile Launch System (NGELS) for the @USNavy. Learn more: https://t.co/ZjSbHCGQ5r

Twitter · Jul 6, 2023, 6:25 PM

[eternal veldt]

The Golden Rivet
One trick old salts always try to pull on new sailors is to send them off to find the “golden rivet” in their ship or vessel since every ship or boat has one according to lore. However, there was one ship that had a golden rivet and it probably is not the one that you might expect. In 1917, two “post Jutland” battleships, designed with greater hull protection and fire control systems were being built at shipyards on opposite coasts, the USS California was being built by New York Naval Shipyard and the USS Tennessee was being built by Mare Island. The California legislature sent a golden rivet back to New York for the California. The rivet was installed in the bow of the ship and construction continued.
Shortly thereafter, someone decided it was rather foolish that the California was being built in New York, so it was decided they would simply exchange names – the California in New York became the Tennessee, and the Tennessee at Mare Island became the USS California. The California was launched at Mare Island on 20 November 1919. And which ended up with the golden rivet? The Tennessee, of course!

@maiden citrus

[autumn sorrel]

Upgrade electronic and ecm?

[warm finch]

Does this one make the engines NOT blow out nitrogen oxide?

[maiden citrus]

Cute

[spring briar]

Lmao the USN is literally using gold in construction!! Worst navy ever!!!

• some youtube short youtuber

[shrewd pecan]

The entire brochure on the F-16AJ

https://imgur.io/a/gZ97a5E

[severe star]

Please tell me thats from public documents

[shrewd pecan]

why in the hell would classified documents on a failed procurement proposal from 30+ years ago be on Twitter

[severe star]

Idk I don't want to end up on the CIA list like everyone on Thug Shaker central

[shrewd pecan]

no all of this was publicly available

and again why would any of this be classified in the first place

[severe star]

Phew

[shrewd pecan]

I swear some of you people have no idea what actual classified documents tend to look like

Since they’re not gonna be handing out promotional brochures with classified information on them

[autumn sorrel]

*magazine page from a military magazine

Is this classified document?

[shrewd pecan]

like god damn even the YF-23s flight manual

Isn’t classified

[warm finch]

Reality has proven to very well be stranger than fiction.

[autumn sorrel]

@shrewd pecan Where can I find "Jane fighting ships"?

[shrewd pecan]

pirate it is your best chance

If not university libraries

[autumn sorrel]

Pirate then

I don't think my Uni would import mil mag

[shrewd pecan]

Buying actual copies of janes is beyond the means of my fed ex paycheck

[autumn sorrel]

I just want the old copy about Dreadnought race

It must be quite lit

[shrewd pecan]

This is just for jane’s magazine

[autumn sorrel]

That's like 2 month of my living expense alone

[shrewd pecan]

That’s like one paycheck I’d rather spend on better things than furthering my autism

[eternal veldt]

I have what you want.

What exactly are you looking for?

[autumn sorrel]

So how do I find the free copy then? I am not familiar with this

[eternal veldt]

Keep in mind that Jane's Fighting Ships is actually a shitty reference in modern standards

a great reference back in contemporary times, but absolutely fucking terrible now.

[autumn sorrel]

Good thing I don't go after modern ship, I want to know the Dreadnought race

[maiden citrus]

Janes fighting ships is perfectly accurate and balanced with no exploits

[eternal veldt]

So, dreadnoughts only?

I have the 1919, 1940, 1942, and the 1953 version.

[autumn sorrel]

Digital?

[eternal veldt]

Digital.

[maiden citrus]

16 inch belt North Carolina is the way

[autumn sorrel]

Nice

Could you send them to me?

[shrewd pecan]

well at a minimum janes let’s you read headlines

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/land-forces/latest/japan-to-procure-hawkei-eagle-light-vehicles-for-trials

[eternal veldt]

Which year?

[autumn sorrel]

1919

I like old dread

[severe star]

Yeah not taking any damn chances

It's happened like over 7 times over the past year

[shrewd pecan]

again

[eternal veldt]

You do realize that classified material quite literally

[shrewd pecan]

Classified documents do not look like promotional brochures

[eternal veldt]

has a classified stamp right over it?

[severe star]

Again, I'm just cautious

[shrewd pecan]

have a declassified document I got off of google images

[shrewd pecan]

Again classified documents tend to look like actual documents

[eternal veldt]

Anything that is cleared will have something like this over it

[warm finch]

He a little confused but he got the spirit, leave him.

[eternal veldt]

Of course, this doesn't excuse some of the genuine shitheads like the Challenger 2 document leaker

[shrewd pecan]

Classified documents do not look like this

[eternal veldt]

who personally scribed out the classified stamp

but declassified material will have a stamp over it

[eternal veldt]

It's good to be cautious, but yea, these are brochures, so they really aren't going to be classified

[desert agate]

i have in fact found documents which are in the public domain (70+ years old) but some dumbfuck forgot to remove the classified stamp from

[maiden citrus]

Classified and certified cool

[eternal veldt]

Some German documents aren't either from memory

still has DIENST GEHEIM written all over it, ask Sirene

[desert agate]

ADF used to have some odd policies regarding declassification

[eternal veldt]

Also, hit, fancy HMAS Stalwart and Torrens' plans?

[desert agate]

👀

please

i would very much like

[eternal veldt]

give me a moment

beeg file

[desert agate]

ridiculouly and absolutely cromulent

@ivory ridge
HMAS Voyager (D31) sported a few Breda guns on her after some crewmen had a minor mutinty in protest of the ships lack of AA defences, leading to a very unofficial and very much out of regulation refit where she was fitted with a handful of captured guns

[ivory ridge]

lol

[eternal veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/poi-yuudachi-theft-gif-22854108

[desert agate]

HMAS Stuart also recieved them

HMAS Paramatta may have had one and HMAS Perth fitted two behind her bridge

[eternal veldt]

[desert agate]

its understandably, given the thin legality, hard to find pictures but its cool regardless

[desert agate]

ayo