history

[manic latch]

We don't ask for return of Ironclads for same reason

Or sail warships

If you somehow ban all missiles

Then they might have a chance of return

[strong plank]

Closest thing to a modern battleship would probably be the zumms

[alpine onyx]

I'll happily take a sailship

Thank you very much

[tough quail]

kirov

battleships have really nothing to do with actual guns and zumwalts peashooters don't really make a difference

a battleship is just one large vessel with a shitload of firepower strapped to it

[manic latch]

Then Lider also counts as BB
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lider-class_destroyer

But well

They are called Battlecruisers since

They don't have the armor of BBs

But armor is also dead concept

So I don't know

AESA Pagoda

[tough quail]

Liders still what I'd just call a cruiser tbh

kirovs near treaty bb size

[manic latch]

Lider is smoller ye

[humble mulch]

Put like ERA plates on it

[manic latch]

She be cute still

[humble mulch]

And I’ll call it a BB

[manic latch]

@tough quail I show thee, Kuznetsov replacement project hell

[ivory ridge]

24k tons

[manic latch]

Should have said ww1 BB size smh

[tough quail]

isn't she 29

[ivory ridge]

full 28

24k standard

[tough quail]

oh my bad

[manic latch]

Finally

Tie Defender my beloved

[humble mulch]

I like the bottom one

[wintry moat]

Imperial march intensifies

[humble mulch]

Looks like a toy tug boat

[manic latch]

Ok uhh

I don't like Varan at all

For one main reason

It's an ocean Armata

Trying to use single hull for different class ships

See it does look smart on paper since much easier to mass produce

But it never goes that way

She is a " universal sea complex"

[grave ravine]

They are probably never gonna build the Liders

[manic latch]

Yes

Super Gorshkovs are highest choice

[grave ravine]

Yeah

[humble mulch]

oh

I guess it’s not that bad tho

Depends on how they are built really. Like the order and how involved the buyer is with it

[spring briar]

@tough quail

[tough quail]

stronk

[spring briar]

PSM

I need one

[strong plank]

No wait that’s genius

If they use the same hull for their carriers as they do for their oligarchs’ yachts

they might actually get finished

wait the back ones are cargo ships aren’t they

not yachts

[ivory ridge]

lmao

[manic latch]

Yachts and consequences

Would melt them all down

Bezos does have nice Yacht tho

While I usually don't like this "old style" this one is special

Especially the figurehead is a nice touch

Bezos specially commissioned it after his partner's look

Kinda romantic ngl

Sang

Did you guys build this

Oh yeah

It's Dutch Shipyard

https://gagadget.com/en/265597-rafael-unveils-sixth-generation-sky-spear-aviation-missile-for-new-and-old-fighters/

Good good

Very good name

Not something like JATM BVRAAM

/s

[junior trench]

BVRAAM is the missile type. Not the name.

[zealous vine]

Y'all, suggest me a ship design that's slightly goofy but still viable

(For a cursed ship game idea)

[eternal veldt]

Agincourt

The ship is a turd, but it worked...somewhat.

[zealous vine]

Already considered 👍

[manic latch]

Ye Beyond visual smh, was joking

[zealous vine]

Should identification be a game feature and, to an extent, friendly fire

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz_YXkZ_IGE

[somber knoll]

[manic latch]

@tough quail OSA-M

[tough quail]

he emerge

[thorn trail]

what plane is this on New Mex?

[eternal veldt]

O2U, I believe

[thorn trail]

Ah

how did BBs recover the floatplanes?

[solid mango]

[thorn trail]

oh they craned them?

[eternal veldt]

Well...kinda.

Landing mats are towed alongside the ship, where the seaplane taxiis onto

Cranes then lift them back up to be stowed either in the hangar, on the catapult, or just outright on the weather deck for the US.

[zealous vine]

What are the most manageable turret arrangements to have 13 or more guns

[eternal veldt]

Don't have 13 or more guns in the first place, upcaliber the gun

three guns x 5 is the most common way I've seen

[zealous vine]

I'm well aware, I merely want an Agincourt 2: brazilian boogaloo

[thorn trail]

Just do Lyon class: 4x4

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

and enjoy your fire control getting ineffective from all the splashes

[spring briar]

Lyon was set up to do ladder salvos

Beyond that

Idk

Lyon’s turrets can be seen as simply added redundancy

[alpine onyx]

why not go for 4x3 38cm instead?

should fit just fine?

[spring briar]

Blame the senate

They were convinced of the slightly smaller caliber + higher RoF = better idea

[remote monolith]

mfing Palpatine smh

[eternal veldt]

Funny, considering Petain just basically Palpatined

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPaTCmvOr8U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDb0nPf0BoA

[eternal veldt]

Can't wait to see 500 comments about how the Indian map is incorrect

[subtle prawn]

He already got a complaint filed at his channel by the Survey of India for the previous Indo-Pakistani War video

[raven osprey]

https://youtu.be/4s-ZY0lnGeI

[autumn sorrel]

????

[lunar sand]

why is the Wisconsin still part of the mothball fleet when the other 3 sisters aren't?

like what good will an Iowa do in the modern battlefield

[chilly osprey]

I don't believe she is

[shrewd pecan]

"Wisconsin was stricken from the Naval Vessel Register (NVR) 17 March 2006, and was donated for permanent use as a museum ship. She currently functions as a museum ship operated by Nauticus in Norfolk, Virginia. On 15 April 2010, the City of Norfolk officially took over ownership of the ship.[3]"

[chilly osprey]

You had advocates in Congress trying to argue for them to still being mothballed, but those efforts have long since died off

And none of the ships are in any condition approaching being feasible to re-activate.

[lunar sand]

Iowa also a museum ship? I recall she had her own weird situation where she wasn't open to the public

[shrewd pecan]

you'd be better off buying the super Italian ammo anyways for the 127 MMs

all 4 Iowa's are museum ships

[chilly osprey]

I'd also note the fundamental reason they were reactivated in the first place was;

1. They still existed at the time and were feasible to bring back into service at a not-insane cost due to limited sea life

2. The navy needed more surface strike capability but did not have many ships large enough to take large amounts of Tomahawk and Harpoon cruise missiles. The Iowa's fit the bill for this in the pre-VLS era and the 32x Tomahawk and 16x Harpoon was their primary armament.

A single DDG can now carry far more firepower than this while still being able to defend itself from attack, and is vastly cheaper to operate.

[shrewd pecan]

closest your getting to a modern battleship would be if any of the ballstic defense ship/arsenal ship proposals ever materialize

[chilly osprey]

The big guns were really always a secondary reason for the navy to bring back these ships.

[lunar sand]

Who's even maintaining these museum ships

I doubt the Navy is shelling out its budget for museum pieces

[chilly osprey]

And once there were enough VLS-equipped ships to keep them in service, they ditched them ASAP

[shrewd pecan]

mixture of the US Park Service, local cities and private charities

[chilly osprey]

I mean, how do you think most museums stay open?

[shrewd pecan]

Missouri's maintained by the Park Service

[autumn sorrel]

The have the own board and fund for the museum, ticket sale help but if the fund run low like Texas, ship is fuck

[chilly osprey]

Money from visitation, donations, and usually aid from the US Park Service or their local city or state.

US Navy doesn't really get involved in upkeeping the ships anymore

So long as the ships are sufficientlly deactivated for military use, it's wholly out of their hair.

And that is very much the case for the Iowa's.

[shrewd pecan]

most the navy does is donate items leaving the stockpiles

[lunar sand]

The city they're in provides?

I'd assume

[autumn sorrel]

They have trouble refitting the current ship hardly any fund left for museum anyway

[lunar sand]

Actually that begs the question in regards to museum ships

Who gets the say on where the ship goes

Like to be a museum

[shrewd pecan]

the navy had to approve the donation based off of proposals given to them by cities wanting the museum

[autumn sorrel]

Depend on who have the jurisdiction, Texas officially belong to Texan Navy

[shrewd pecan]

she's owned by the state of Texas

[chilly osprey]

Whoever can prove to the navy that they have the funds and means to keep the ship as a museum

[shrewd pecan]

furthermore owned by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department

[chilly osprey]

You can also get things like corporate sponserships and the like

Ex;

https://www.battleshipnewjersey.org/support/supporters/

[lunar sand]

One more question

An oddly specific one.

Pearl Harbor is still a US Navy harbor. So how do the museum ships work there? Is there anything different there specifically or is PH also for Civilian use

[autumn sorrel]

Or some billionaire have money to burn and unconditional love for the Navy

[shrewd pecan]

don't they just bus people to the ship

I haven't been to Pearl so I don't really know

[autumn sorrel]

Arizona meomorial is operated by the National Park service

[chilly osprey]

Specific areas are open as museums or where tourists can access, the rest is a military base

[shrewd pecan]

does remind me

I need to head down to the Minnesota Military Museum at somepoint

I must see their M1 standard

[lunar sand]

M1A1?

[shrewd pecan]

nope

standard M1

[autumn sorrel]

Man, America have maybe some of the best Military museum

[lunar sand]

Idk Bovington is pretty amazing

[autumn sorrel]

Most stuff in my National Military museum are all rusted or badly perserved

[lunar sand]

M12

113

Chadley

[autumn sorrel]

Tatongas, last time we talk about Vietnamese M113 modernization program, you mention some program with remote operated turret, turn out PAVN did experiment with it, one prototype before they deemed it too costly and wouldn't improve the vehicle operation much.

[lunar sand]

I wonder

Where does France have Charles De Gaulle patrol? When you only have 1 major carrier, I'd assume you want to keep it nearby

[shrewd pecan]

it depends on whatever post colonial adventure the French military is conducting

Charles De Gaulle's main mission is power projection

not to sit around in France

[lunar sand]

You think french and US pilots have ever had to practice landing on eachothers carriers? Given the use of the same system?

[autumn sorrel]

Most likely in the Mediterranean, they would move her to central Africa if they need to project power there

[shrewd pecan]

she's conducted combat sorties against the Taliban and ISIS

she's also partook in the 2011 intervention in the Libyan civil war

[autumn sorrel]

They did, in past exercise

[lunar sand]

2011? God she's old

[autumn sorrel]

Only 22 yr old, she still have juice left

[lunar sand]

How long is she supposed to go for

[autumn sorrel]

France was planning for a new carrier in 2025 iirc

Or was it 2027?

[shrewd pecan]

trying to research Minnesota National Guard divisonal lineage just for half of the websites to take twenty million years to load

ok best I am getting is 205th Infantry Brigade

how detailed
"The brigade was organized as a separate infantry brigade in Minnesota and Iowa. It was later assigned as a roundout element for the 6th Infantry Division (Light) in Alaska and served as the only light infantry brigade in the Army Reserve. The Brigade consisted of:"

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, do American have specific convention on how to name a military formation? PAVN did try to standardize it by use 3xx for divisional formation and 1xx for regimental, it even broke down more to cover other type of formation like armors.

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Armored_Brigade_Combat_Team,_34th_Infantry_Division

so 1991 is when we got reflagged to 34th Infantry Division

but I'm still trying to figure out when we ended up with the tanks

[simple vigil]

Here is the bell of the ark royal, it is in the fleet air arm museum in England, you can touch it

[shrewd pecan]

2006?????

"In 2006, the Army’s conversion to modular brigades led to 1st Brigade’s reorganization as 1st Armored Brigade Combat Team.[13]"

[lunar sand]

As much as I do love American military history and equipment

The one thing I will forever hate, is the sheer atrocious lack of standardization between the Army and Marines

[shrewd pecan]

they operate nearly all of the same shit

beyond specialized vehicles needed for the marines or army to do their jobs

[autumn sorrel]

Isn't there are different type of BCT?

[shrewd pecan]

the main three frontal combat ones are Infantry, Stryker and Armored

but there's quite a few different ones

[lunar sand]

Not always

When the Army got the M1A2
The Marines still used the M1A1 just a modified version

The Army uses the Stryker and Bradley, the Marines prefer the LAV

The Army uses the Apache, Marines like their Viper

Like please, my head

[shrewd pecan]

the Apache is much bigger than the Cobra

making the Cobra far more suited for ampihbious warfare ships

[lunar sand]

The Viper is pretty damn big compared to the cobra

[shrewd pecan]

the LAV-25 fillfuls a entirely different mission set to the Strykers

its the same size

[autumn sorrel]

Marines is expected to be deploy fast, make sense for why they need lighter vehicle

[shrewd pecan]

since there just rebuilt super cobras

additionally there's really not that much of a difference between the Marine Corps old M1A1s and the Army's M1A2s

the M1A1 just lacks the CIT

[autumn sorrel]

Marine lost their tank last year?

[shrewd pecan]

yeah because they're done being 2nd army

[autumn sorrel]

And they now have the new light tank

[shrewd pecan]

nope

purely ACVs, AAV-7s and LAV-25s (soon to be replaced)

anyways on top of the LAV-25 filfulling a entirely different mission set

the Stryker additionally

can't float

[lunar sand]

The Booker is going to the Army, and they still refuse to call it a Light Tank

[shrewd pecan]

🤨 and why would the Marine Corps have Bradley's when they can just have the Army conduct the amphibious landing alongside them

[lunar sand]

I understand the lack of Bradley's

[autumn sorrel]

Fancy words from defense contractor to avoid naming it a tank

[lunar sand]

But that's partly due to my hatred of the Bradley

[shrewd pecan]

I will not let you bad mouth the best IFV of the 1980s

all pentagon wars lovers will be severly punished

[lunar sand]

We're in 2023 old man, take your pills

[shrewd pecan]

yeah and its still fairing pretty well

[lunar sand]

Get with the times

[autumn sorrel]

Bc Marine only speciality is amphibious operation and if the army can do it as well, what the point of Marine?

[shrewd pecan]

lemme

find the picture

[autumn sorrel]

The movie really leave bad impression

[lunar sand]

"Screw the Bradley" - A CV90 enthusiast

[shrewd pecan]

what lack of a belt feed does to a MF

[lunar sand]

I think that's only the 40mm variant

[lunar sand]

And most operators prefer the 30mm one

[autumn sorrel]

The question is, can American get down from their high horse and actually accepted that CV-90 is better than most of the stuff they have

[shrewd pecan]

yeah here's the thing

[autumn sorrel]

And even then, would they even buy it?

[shrewd pecan]

they aren't even proposing the CV-90 for the Bradley replacement program now

also no Griffins probably gonna end up winning

[lunar sand]

That's not what I want America to do

I want America to explain why they tested SPIKEs on the Apache Guardian, but not on any of their IFV/AFVs

[lunar sand]

It's called the Booker now dad

[shrewd pecan]

I'm referring

to the IFV version

that won the first time around before they restarted OMFV

[autumn sorrel]

I really want it to be test alongside CV-90

[shrewd pecan]

BAE systems pulled the CV-90 from the competition

lemme find the picture of their new vehicle

[autumn sorrel]

Like, you have decades old IFV that have been tested and a new one that promised the same thing

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/article/bae-systems-announces-partners-for-optionally-manned-fighting-vehicle-design

anyway are you ready for the Bradley CV-90 hybrid?

[autumn sorrel]

Can't be that bad

[lunar sand]

CV90 I like not because its a good IFV

But because it's such a versatile platform.

You want an IFV? There's a CV90 for that
You want an APC? There's a CV90 for that
You want mobile mortars? There's a CV90 for that
You want a 120mm MGS? There's a CV90 for that
(Gonna stop before this bit gets annoying)

[shrewd pecan]

so

the Bradley?

[lunar sand]

Gross

[lunar sand]

Bradley is ugly

[lunar sand]

Ugly

[shrewd pecan]

also why would I want a tracked APC in the years lord of 2023?

[autumn sorrel]

And CV-90 can already do that, decade earlier

[lunar sand]

Centauro is the only Wheeled vehicle for my heart

[shrewd pecan]

CV-90 had the family of vehicles thing going for it due to the original Norwegian requirement

alongside Sweden's needs

[lunar sand]

CV90 makes all of the Vikings happy

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of the US AMPV just makes sense since even post Bradley in the IFV role the Army is still gonna have a fuckton of Bradley parts laying around

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, the Swede and the Norse, one of few time they actually stop bickering and work together, and the result is beautiful

[shrewd pecan]

and the AMPV is far more survivable than the M113

[autumn sorrel]

M113 was never suvivable

Like never

[shrewd pecan]

actually it kinda is

its surprisingly survivable for what it is

[grave ravine]

Dont forget M109A7 is on Bradley drivetrain

[lunar sand]

While we're on the topic of IFVs...

GD... is the Ajax project giving you Grey hairs?

[shrewd pecan]

idk if there's any procurement program that I think the Army fucked

its replacing the Paladin

[grave ravine]

yeah

ERCA is coming soon (I hope)

[autumn sorrel]

American still using Paladin?

[lunar sand]

Artillery really doesn't need to be advanced

[shrewd pecan]

it

really really does

[grave ravine]

yeah

we really need ERCA

ERCA is cool tho

so when it comes we have the good shit

[shrewd pecan]

accuacy, range and the ability to rapid fire a burst of shells on target

[autumn sorrel]

Tell that to the Korean who make K9 and 3 upgrade package in less than 2 decades

[shrewd pecan]

makes a massive difference

[lunar sand]

I won't trust the Koreans

The K2 looks overdesigned

[shrewd pecan]

not really

[autumn sorrel]

Lesson learn from K1 and Russian cooperation

[grave ravine]

Though ERCA is gonna be on the M109A7 chassis, so still Bradley chassis

[shrewd pecan]

the only really complex thing about it is the radar

[lunar sand]

I know it's not actually over designed but just look at it

[desert agate]

Ideally there is a happy middle ground between advanced and cheap artillery systems and shells allowing for more specialised rounds to be used in specific instances

[autumn sorrel]

Why? It's look fine

[shrewd pecan]

I'm just generally hoping the army does go ahead and replace the M777s with some type of motorized system

the era of towed gun artillery is fading

[grave ravine]

Eh M777 sticks around cuz its can be hung under helicopters and shit

[autumn sorrel]

Make it like Ceasar or that Sweden SPG

[shrewd pecan]

there's still that airborne/air assault role for the M777

[lunar sand]

Artillery based on the Abrams hull when?

[shrewd pecan]

but I don't think Stryker units should be having M777s

[grave ravine]

yeah fair

[shrewd pecan]

why does my thing meant to be far behind the lines need a tank hull?

[autumn sorrel]

Died with that SPAA idea

[grave ravine]

put ERCA turret on a Stryker the way the Germans put a PZH turret on the Boxer

[lunar sand]

Ask the Pzh 2000

[shrewd pecan]

the PZH-2000 isn't a tank hull

it's using parts from the leopard 2

[desert agate]

Just uses Leo running gear doesn't it?

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, MSTA use T-72 hull

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

[desert agate]

Hull itself is unarmoured

[grave ravine]

makes sense cuz the thing is fucking massive

[lunar sand]

It's a Leo 2 without the armor

And longer

[autumn sorrel]

So, you want an SPG with turbine engine?

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

we had that

[lunar sand]

Of course

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM2001_Crusader

[grave ravine]

PZH 2000 is a very goofy vehicle

[shrewd pecan]

it used the gas turbine intended to replace the older one in the M1

[desert agate]

Xm2001 was very whacky

[shrewd pecan]

but that was unfortunately cancelled alongside the Crusader

[grave ravine]

Oh yeah the American PZH

[lunar sand]

cursed

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/hBm-FPcz850

yeah and we should of put it into service

[desert agate]

Reminder that America's current SPG entered service in Vietnam

[grave ravine]

Army then went the other way with NLOS-C

[desert agate]

America needs to solve the range problem it's army has

[autumn sorrel]

Calling it, next proposal for Paladin replacement with be the same Crusader but with dif name

[shrewd pecan]

the only thing I can appreciate about the NLOS-C is that it was made in Minnesota and my old friend's dad worked on it (I think)

BEYOND THAT I HATE IT I HATE IT!

[grave ravine]

Nah the current proposal is ERCA, a Paladin but with ultra long gun

[autumn sorrel]

They have HIMARS, maybe that why they downplay the conventional arty role

[grave ravine]

TBF Paladin is very different from the early M109s

[shrewd pecan]

the HIMARs/M270s is kinda lacking in the range department as well compared to some systems the Chinese are fielding

the Army is making a active effort to modernize its fires capabilities with ERCA, PRSM and HSM

[desert agate]

HIMARS is great but rockets and missiles will always be more complex, expensive and rare compared to gun based systems

[desert agate]

Still only using a 30ish calibre gun

[shrewd pecan]

but I'm generally hoping the Army doesn't end up neglecting artillery for the Stryker Brigades

[autumn sorrel]

But the acc is making up for it, unless the CN can somehow develop a more acc system, it more like a barrage system than a precision weapon

[grave ravine]

39 caliber now, though as mentioned ERCA program aims to replace it with a 58 caliber gun

[desert agate]

In any case I think we can all establish that we all have indeed watched that Perun video

[shrewd pecan]

yup

[grave ravine]

lol yeah

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, American operate arty in what formation strength, regiment strong or broken into detachment?

[desert agate]

Unfortunately Perun is a M*lbournite and therefore must be eliminated

[shrewd pecan]

right now there operating as part of the brigade

there's about 18 pieces per brigade

but there being moved up to division level as part of the move back towards the Division

[grave ravine]

The real solution to our range problem

[autumn sorrel]

What video? The military buying list one?

[grave ravine]

1000 mile cannon

[autumn sorrel]

Might as well use the Babylon gun

[desert agate]

https://youtu.be/-A31fegpaAI

No Melbournite shall be left alive inshallah

[shrewd pecan]

this but Wisconsin

[desert agate]

Perun is from Melbourne

Sadly

He will be purged

[autumn sorrel]

Sound like back to arty bat attach to each division and be given on operation basic

[shrewd pecan]

there being moved back to direct control of the divisional artillery brigade

I'm not sure what's gonna end up happening with the Stryker brigade's M777s

since the Strykers brigades under the proposed new orbat

are being paired up with 2 armored brigades

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, sound like it is gear up for a large operation than a small break through, weird

[shrewd pecan]

with the MGS being retired

the armored brigades basically enable the Stryker Brigade to do their thing while the Stryker brigade is able to provide greater amounts of support to the armored brigades

since there's far more infantry to work with

[autumn sorrel]

Interesting

[shrewd pecan]

anyway beyond the artillery modernization

next base the Army has to hit is likely air defense

since while the StrykeR SHORAD will likely work fine enough for dealing with UAVs

there not gonna be enough when KA-52s are flinging munitions out to about 14 KMs

[autumn sorrel]

10km

But no missile can reach that far?

[shrewd pecan]

could of sworn it was 12-14 KMs

[autumn sorrel]

7-10km

[shrewd pecan]

lemme check

[autumn sorrel]

For Vikhir

[shrewd pecan]

its 14.5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMUR

I'm not talking about Vikhirs

[cinder escarp]

LMUR isn't even the main form of the missile.

[autumn sorrel]

Huh, then Avengers def not gonna cut it

[shrewd pecan]

there gonna need some form of new SPAA platform to go alongside the Stryker SHORADs

[lunar sand]

doesn't look like an Akeron to me, inferior missile

[shrewd pecan]

return to ADATs

[lunar sand]

gross

[cinder escarp]

LMUR is basically a HERMES with no booster.

[shrewd pecan]

something new for the thread

[autumn sorrel]

When you absolutely have to kill everything

[shrewd pecan]

sometimes I just forget about just how terrible older arma games looked

anywho

going forward they're going to need some form of equivalent to BUK/TOR

[grave ravine]

Put NASAMS on a truck

[shrewd pecan]

truck with SLAMRAAMs, a radar and a 50 MM

yeah pantsir but better please

[grave ravine]

I mean we don't even need it to be a self contained unit

Basically just the old HAWK batteries but with SLAMRAAMs

[shrewd pecan]

pretty much

I guess there is MML

[grave ravine]

Oh yeah

[grave ravine]

That was cool, but I don't think it's going anywhere

[shrewd pecan]

I think the stand alone version is

[cinder escarp]

MML is dead

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/06/02/us-army-enduring-shield-delay/

[autumn sorrel]

I start to see some pattern here

[shrewd pecan]

at this point just procure more iron domes

that or NASAMs 3

[grave ravine]

I stand by that sticking NASAMS on a truck and just towing along MPQ-64s is the best solution

[shrewd pecan]

what unit even has

the 2-4 Iron dome batteries we have

"On 16 May 2023 US Lt. Gen. Daniel Karbler testified to the US Congress that the US has two Iron Dome batteries, and that one is ready for deployment, and that one battery is wrapping up its training.[138]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/43rd_Air_Defense_Artillery_Regiment

guam

[remote monolith]

sus

[shrewd pecan]

Also to touch on this, why do Bradley’s or the infantry need spikes when they already have other platforms that provide the same capability

For F&F attacks each Bradley and Stryker platoon has javelins

For extended range attacks beyond visual range the army has switch blade

The NLOS is only being considered on the Apache because it greatly extends the effective attack range of the Apache and allows it to stay out of the line of fire

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/BAES_Maritime/status/1671507081541632000

BAE Systems Maritime (@BAES_Maritime)

The forward end of HMS Cardiff, the second Type 26 City Class frigate, has emerged from our build hall in Govan for the first time 🚢
The programme will deliver the most advanced anti-submarine warfare capability available to the @RoyalNavy.
Read more 👉 https://t.co/rp3OQGjrul

Likes

513

Twitter · Jun 21, 2023, 1:15 PM

[lunar sand]

it's half a bote

[thorn trail]

What was the nickname the IJN gave Saratoga again

[night heart]

hi

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/industry-news/deal-focus-pentagon-targets-plasma-assisted-hypersonic-propulsion/

[manic latch]

@tough quail @spring briar
When Soyuz says nobody is at the shipyard but I'm on the other side of the world

[spring briar]

is this real

[tough quail]

yes

god bless the guy that keeps making these

[neon oyster]

T55 obr. 3000

[wintry moat]

For real

It's basically War Thunder custom Models

[spring briar]

@tough quail @manic latch

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

rad

[frozen kestrel]

Did the U.S. repaint Prinz Eugen when they claimed her as a war prize?

[manic latch]

Given irrc her blown up boilers were never fixed and she was nuked

Big doubt lad

[manic latch]

Like

She was never even renamed

[rapid junco]

Sometimes you see posts saying "USS Prinz Eugen"
Or a X followed by some numbers (this maybe is more real though)

[ivory ridge]

USS Prinz Eugen (IX-300)

[rapid junco]

[manic latch]

@tough quail @spring briar

🍺

[winged ferry]

[sullen canyon]

Funny thing, it also worked out for dairy too if you think about it

[urban shore]

Is this accurate?

[dapper parcel]

No, we're way past semaphore as main means of signalling by the time first "BB" came out

[sullen canyon]

You could say the same thing for DDs too there if that's the case

[zealous vine]

What's this section used for?

[runic prairie]

What ship?

[dapper parcel]

Based on the shaft angle, the turbines must be there
Unless that angle is just an error by the artist

[zealous vine]

L20 project btw

Though some other German BCs did have that space between turret X and Y

Derfflinger iirc

[eternal veldt]

machinery

[manic latch]

Look at Kongos

It's ww1 machinery space

[dapper parcel]

Mackensen you mean? The turbines are there

[zealous vine]

ooo

Thank yew 👍👍👍

Oh btw I remembered this

[rapid junco]

[manic latch]

But She gets angry when I do similar events

[autumn sorrel]

Wait, they actually petty enough to pause at that single frame and scan every single line to make sure it isn’t have any Pakistani “claim”?

[dapper parcel]

The topic itself is hot enough already

They probably just trying to find any excuse so they can take down the entire video, or to force TOR to use their "official" account of history

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/Israel_MOD/status/1671926021598199821

Ministry of Defense (@Israel_MOD)

Introducing the Namer 1500: The next-gen Namer APC developed by the IMoD Tank & APC Directorate, recently delivered to the IDF. With a new 1500 horsepower engine, it showcases increased power, speed & cutting-edge touch screen technology, offering enhanced protection capabilities

Likes

682

Retweets

121

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jun 22, 2023, 5:00 PM

[autumn sorrel]

“Official” accounts? What can be more bias toward India than the history facts. I mean, they pretty much won the war and TOR videos just be a deeper dive into how the operation was conducted and from what I seen, there isn’t anything that can actually be considered false or bias toward Pakistan.

[thorn trail]

The map

It's the boundary in Kashmir that they took offense with

[autumn sorrel]

Lol, I should have guess that one

[zealous vine]

Were there plans for a twin 5"/54 mk42?

[spring briar]

@tough quail @manic latch

[shrewd pecan]

curious to see if any of the Canadians know the backstory for this

[tough quail]

finally

canada has defeated sky crime

[dusty kraken]

The Canadian Geese will now be limited to only low altitude operations

[spring briar]

sends horse a cool gun vid

horse comments on some cannuck shit

Absolutely destroyed

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apVtDqn5734

[tough quail]

im srry that was really cool

[manic latch]

Hmm

They exist in Wows

So likely

Austin use them

[dapper parcel]

A twin would require extensive modification to the feed mechanism it wouldn't be Mk42 anymore by the time it's done

[manic latch]

127 mm/54 Mk.18

Gawd Imagine Montana with these

🤤

[tough quail]

round friend

[solid mango]

I love dis goober

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/774679167346016289/1021123869702103070/1009653318634709022.gif

[solid mango]

so I did something to the mark 32

[spring briar]

Is ok

Still love ya

[tough quail]

im considering buying a makarov once things settle over here

[spring briar]

Get it in 9x18 makarov

Not .380 acp

[tough quail]

well yeah im not a fucking mug

[spring briar]

Good man

Ayo

Boat tail handgun rounds

[tough quail]

bless

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_PR1OdS754

[spring briar]

Pronouns: AK/47

[manic latch]

https://tarantacticalinnovations.com/tti-jw4-pit-viper/

While I know

7k$ for a 9mm is indeed alot

It could be the sexiest 9mm however

[spring briar]

Listen

This

I want

[manic latch]

Old girl

[spring briar]

Smol boolit

[manic latch]

Ak-12 more sexy

[spring briar]

Wrong ak-12

Pls can we go back

[cinder escarp]

The original design was a nightmare.

Also not an AK in any way.

The final version of Zlobin's design has a single-piece handguard/upper receiver that is more than a foot long.

that handguard/upper piece cost more than the rest of the parts of the rifle, combined.

And the really early versions of the Zlobin design such as in that photo above, had a ton of issues.

[spring briar]

I don't care, it just looked great
if they can find a way to make it look like the 2012 model
but work like the current model

that'd be neat

[tough quail]

yeah its aesthetic as hell

[spring briar]

monolithic .22 lr boolit

he is smol

[cinder escarp]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/05/unknown-history-new-russian-ak-12-kalashnikov-rifle-part-1/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/06/unknown-history-new-russian-ak-12-kalashnikov-rifle-part-2/

Here's a piece from one of the armorers involved in testing the new guns.

[tough quail]

[manic latch]

Say

What is the current purpose of assault rifles

Kill people yes but

Penetrate Kevlar?

Have higher pen range?

Be more accurate?

Be cheaper?

Or just be better than what you replace

I know US is focusing on lighter weight + more range

Since they believe range will matter more boosted with technology for it

While smaller bullets are better for cost and Weight I guess

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Eldest_Son

Consequences

The project focused on placement of exploding cartridges into supplies used by communist combat forces in southeast Asia. United States technicians assembled 11,565 7.62×39mm cartridges for AK-47 rifles, 556 12.7×108mm heavy machine gun cartridges, and 1,968 82mm Type 67 mortar shells to detonate in the weapon when firing was attempted

[humble mulch]

Yeah optics can allow less capable shooters to do well, and a larger bullet lets you shoot farther

[manic latch]

You can shoot further with smaller bullet given velocity

[spring briar]

What does this have to do with the video I posted

[manic latch]

I sometimes remember things suddenly

[humble mulch]

And with camera tech/optics getting better we can very well see some video game looking bullshit in our life times

[manic latch]

Phoenix knows

[spring briar]

No

[manic latch]

Wtf

[humble mulch]

Small bullets are to small

[spring briar]

Small bullet does not equal range

[manic latch]

Rich

Which goes further
7mm with 200m/s

Or

5mm with 600m/s

[spring briar]

Range is a result of high muzzle velocity and high ballistic coefficient

[humble mulch]

Like you aren’t gonna put a 9mm bullet in a .50 cal case

To make a longer range 9mm

[spring briar]

The new 6.8mm is all in all a bullet with higher BC than the 5.56

[humble mulch]

Yeah

[spring briar]

Size is important for BC, as a bigger bullet with the same shape will always have a higher ballistic coefficient

[manic latch]

And this 6.8mm

Has more range than 7.2mm

No?

[spring briar]

Wtf

Is

7.2mm

https://tenor.com/view/honkai-kick-honkai-impact3rd-gif-21324294

[manic latch]

62*

[humble mulch]

6.8mm is a round used for long range shooting yes

[manic latch]

I hate smol guns

[spring briar]

Krem there’s hundreds of 7.62’s

[humble mulch]

7.62 nato iirc goes farther? But isn’t as accurate

[manic latch]

Like

Isnt this same logic has

[spring briar]

6.8mm is flatter shooting

[humble mulch]

Yee

[manic latch]

Litto's 381mm outrange Iowa 406mm since well the velocity matter more than size?

[humble mulch]

How much is the bursting charge on between the 2

[spring briar]

Lighter bullets are easier to get up to a higher mv
But they also slow down faster than heavy bullets
So to offset this, they improved the ballistic design of the 6.8

So that it stats superior to 7.62 for longer

Until 7.62 just beats it because it slows down less fast

Learn your ballistics krem

This is literally the same reason why Russia went to 5.45

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749483175012466721/1077917000183058443/togif.gif

[spring briar]

As well as for recoil reduction

Speaking of 5.45

7N6

Is not armor piercing

[humble mulch]

Yeah 5.45 is basically the Russians version. Tho I think they might be looking at another bullet

[spring briar]

Lead solids

YEEEEEHAW

[humble mulch]

Cursed

[spring briar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1001818171780632706/1100488433203425350/GroupNumaSmol.gif

[zealous vine]

That's a Mk 16 just in a twin mount 💀

But convincing enough, I'm going to treat these cat turrets as is

[strong plank]

Nimitz class my beloved

[desert agate]

https://youtu.be/2Rj7B47F9Xs

[sleek furnace]

What's the location?

[desert agate]

Pearl

[autumn sorrel]

CVN-76 Ronald Reagan is visiting Da Nang and I don’t have free time until next weekend, sad

[strong plank]

Nimitz was in Pearl last week

[zealous vine]

How does damage control crew fix flooding?

Saw the Tom Scott Royal Navy damage repair vid, you just put up some planks??

[strong plank]

Water comes into the ship through a hole

You patch the hole

There’s planks, mats, etc

Or you evacuate and section off the compartment

[zealous vine]

Is the water pumped out? Aren't there compartments in between the outside and crew compartment of the ship

[molten karma]

how have I somehow never found Drachinifel until now

[ivory ridge]

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1672764281904074753?s=20

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

While on liberty in Cyprus in 1949, U.S. sailors and Marines from the Sixth Fleet drank more whisky, gin, and beer in two days than all the island's local inhabitants had consumed in the previous six months.
#SeaStorySaturday

Likes

620

Retweets

119

Twitter · Jun 25, 2023, 12:30 AM

[desert agate]

ive met him

[eternal veldt]

If a compartment is flooded, you likely could get the pumps working through (diesel) generators or other kinds of power to get the water out.

When all else fails or there aren't sufficient portable pumps, as had happened to Vittorio Veneto after she got torpedoed in March 1941, it's the bucket brigade time.

as for flooding itself, as Regal said, you use mattresses, canvas and the likes to first plug the hole. In the action of USS Bergall against Myoko, the sub was shelled, so bedding from the bunks was taken to plug the holes.

What happens after that typically also involves "bracing/shoring" - wooden beams and the likes to secure the patch that you added so water pressure or otherwise wouldn't loosen the piece you added and destroy all your efforts.

something like so.

[ivory ridge]

https://twitter.com/NichoConcu/status/1672909466939842561?t=O922Jx4EbgXRuNHVjk1HXw&s=19

A-129 Mangusta (@NichoConcu)

Ferrari F333E Lizard, an attempt to join the defence industry by Ferrari engineering in 1986. Could be configured for many different roles and could be armed with recoilless rifles, ATGM’s, machine gun’s and even flamethrowers. It was able to reach speeds of up to 120km/h.

Twitter · Jun 25, 2023, 10:07 AM

@tough quail

I probably posted about this in the past already but it's always funny

[dapper parcel]

it's a shitbox

[real osprey]

still do better than the Ferrari F1 team though

[tough quail]

bruh I had no idea that was a thing, that's rad

[tough quail]

it doesn't have Mercedes bitching up and down to get the FIA to nerf them so yeah lmao

[dapper parcel]

Let's be real, Ferrari at the time also thought the TD will affect RB more than it'll affect them

I don't think we even need a spoiler alert for what actually happen

[night heart]

hello

[ivory ridge]

[pliant stone]

I have a question about Ulrich von Hutten

Friedrich der Große is described by the official images as describing him on Twitter as an H-39 class.

But what struck me about Ulrich von Hutten is that the official pictures only speak of H-class, not H-39 or H-41 or anything else.

I find that a little strange, especially since up until now all ship's maids have their class listed. Only Ulrich only says H-class.

Of the H-39, 6 were planned, 2 were started, but never finished.

So what speaks for it being an H-39. It's their secret story that the commander says they belong to the same ship class, all things can also be understood in such a way that the H class is not meant to be forced in general, only the H-39 class.

So my question is Ulrich von Hutten an H-39 class or another H-class? Like the H-41? Or another?

It would be very important for me to know, because I am a hobby model builder and own 2 H-39 class model kits, I am in the process of building Friedrich der Große. If Ulrich von Hutten was not an H-39, I would have to scrap these plans.

I know that this question doesn't quite fit the game Azur Lane, but I hope someone can help you with it anyway.

[ivory ridge]

We didn't get a new gun in her event

That means she is 39

Because 41 had 420s

That's it

[pliant stone]

ok, are there other sources of memory and so on?

[ivory ridge]

No because this game doesn't care enough about that

We just have no reason to believe she isnt a 39

[pliant stone]

Is there actually a rules him azur lane,? i.e. whether there is a language that has more value than another. ? example. english or japanese. if both statements speak again what has more weight?

[pliant stone]

But Friedrich is described as H-39.

Ulrich but only as an H class

[dapper parcel]

Counterpoint: UvH is in different class from FdG in the Fleet Tech listing
Counter-counterpoint: Ryuuhou is in the same class as Chitose...

[chilly osprey]

H-class is only H-39

H-40A/B and H-41 are later projects, but are not actually part of the 'H-class' proper, and would have been given entirely different designations had they advanced to a detailed design for yards to build.

When you see a reference talking about the H-class itself, it is only the H-39 design being referenced, and battleships H, J, K, L, M. and N.

[pliant stone]

What gun did H-40 have again?

[dapper parcel]

By the way, UvH is tagged as H39 ingame

So there's that

[pliant stone]

I just don't understand why UvH is not described as H-39 class, only H-class when Friedrich says H-39.

[chilly osprey]

Never determined

I believe it was just 'more than 406mm' as a desire

[pliant stone]

ok i think i'm getting closer.
Are these official game dates Or what is that?

[dapper parcel]

It would be lunatic to develop a 420mm just to be bigger than 406mm

[chilly osprey]

looks at H-41 project

Lunatics, yeah

[alpine onyx]

The H-39 to H-41 development is not that hard cut, it was fairly fluid as they kept getting new points on how to improve the design

[desert agate]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

[ivory ridge]

Chinese > japanese > english

[ivory ridge]

Because neither are actually 100% right, unlike Gascogne being in the same grouping as JB

[dapper parcel]

They often use administrative classification, which sometimes depart from technical side of things

[dapper parcel]

Imagine not using Nippon Chemicon

It's the same for FdG

[pliant stone]

is there a page for friedrich?

[dapper parcel]

whoever pinged me that was

[pliant stone]

sorry, I mistyped

[eternal veldt]

Doubly so after they looked at Richelieu's secrets.

Still ain't talking your way out of rudder scuttling charges though.

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUaRe_mJ8bo&ab_channel=AustralianMilitaryAviationHistory

[lunar sand]

Whilst both factors are important

What's more important, how good the carrier is or the aircraft that it can field

[desert agate]

fighter jets hit power lines
local farmer phones base
doesnt bother to inquire about anything, is just upset that he lost power

[eternal veldt]

As for FdG, if we follow where the actual ship comes from, World of Warships, the ship is H-39, albeit with armour values closer to 41 as reported by Garzke and Dulin. It's technically a made up ship, rather than proper 39 as Hutten.

That said, even "Ulrich von Hutten" is a conjectural name, and unlikely to be used.

[eternal veldt]

Leaning somewhat more towards aircraft here, based on what is seen at Midway.

You can have your planes find your target, except your entire squadron is shot down because 1) the TBD is hopeless against the A6M 2)fuckfest called Mark 14

Granted, the latter at Midway isn't the major issue since most of the attacking planes were shot down in their run, and the rest were dodged.

Fielding good aircraft is also important for the defence of the carrier itself, as combat air patrol would turn out to be a good line of defence compared to any other kind of strategy.

Also, there's likely a chance to hammer out the defects of a carrier as best as you can if the ship is shit during trials and the working up period, as seen with the "man-killing longhouse" akagi and "roasted chicken machine" kaga. Planes - you'd likely need a new production line/extra modification to existing planes.

[lunar sand]

I see

[eternal veldt]

Worst case scenario, you can always assign a crappier carrier to second line duty/less intense areas for operations.

still won't save ryuujou

[lunar sand]

Thats rude

[eternal veldt]

Or Wasp, for that matter

[lunar sand]

Different question time

What's the "Z" refer to in the German DD designations

[ivory ridge]

The word destroyer

In german

[eternal veldt]

Zerstörer

[lunar sand]

Why they never got official names like other countries

[ivory ridge]

They did

[lunar sand]

[ivory ridge]

Up to z22

[lunar sand]

Ah

[lunar sand]

Well then Different question to get the blood flowing. Do individual ships of a class have unique defining characteristics that are easily spotted?

Like how is it that in naval combat it seems the enemies were acutely aware of what specific ship they were engaging.

Like how do you look at Scharnhorst and correctly guess that it's Scharn and not Gnei

[eternal veldt]

They were not.

Combat recognition is immensely hard, and ships often get mislabelled.

In the prelude to the Battle of Savo Island, a recon flight reported to the base that they spotted what appears to be 2 seaplane tenders and 2 cruisers.

Through such report, the allies inferred that this squadron is off to establish a seaplane base in Tulagi.

[lunar sand]

It wasn't seaplane tenders was it?

[eternal veldt]

In reality, combined with other messiness and complacency of commanders in that battle, it was actually Mikawa's heavy cruisers and light cruisers sailing straight towards Savo and the unloading transports.

Another interesting scenario is Coral Sea, where Japanese reconnaisance reported to the 5th Cardiv that they spotted a "carrier" and a "California-class" battleship.

Therefore, the carriers launched a full strike against this juicy target, only to realize that the ships was actually Sims, a destroyer, and Neosho, a fleet oiler.

[lunar sand]

Someone goofed up...

[eternal veldt]

As for the original question of "what makes a ship look like X and Y", you have recongition charts supplied by the intelligence office

Or periodicals like Jane's Fighting Ships

[lunar sand]

Like I imagine it's relatively easy to spot ships that are alone in their class like Bismarck

But when it's multiple ships we're in that class. Guessing the specific one seems like a miracle

[eternal veldt]

Granted, some are very off the mark, but if well trained and identified, it would help unveil the fog of war.

Even Bismarck is hard to identify.

Hood, acting on information supplied from Norfolk, continued to open fire on the leading ship as she was reported to be Bismarck.

In reality, Prinz Eugen swapped places with her after her fire control radar was knocked out while telling Norfolk and Suffolk to piss off.

Ship recognition, in short, is not an easy task

[lunar sand]

With this new knowledge I dread to imagine how many ships were sent into fights against vastly superior opponents due to wrong information

[ivory ridge]

completing as cvl

Lmao

[eternal veldt]

Ships typically dont operate alone, but as whole squadrons

So if things dont look right, they bug out

(or be caught off guard and wiped out - see Vella Gulf)

The curse of Shigure

[lunar sand]

Why did the US operate carriers in such large groups in WW2?

Or to put it more specifically

Why was Musashi mobbed by like 4 different CV/CVLs

[manic latch]

Or uhhh

Hutten's skin having "39" in her name tag

[eternal veldt]

Fast Carrier Task Force

The smaller equivalent of that is the Kido Butai, which the US knocked out at Midway

Grouping your carriers together allows strong air projection over an area

And not be "defeated in detail"

[lunar sand]

Did the British also use this in the Atlantic or where their CVs split up more

[eternal veldt]

Britain is stretched out quite thin early onwards

And losing two too early in the war

I think the fleet significantly grouped up once the British Pacific Fleet was formed

[lunar sand]

Interesting...

Anyone got any good stories from the Atlantic front. I always hear about the pacific theater, but not many stories from the Atlantic theater of War.

[eternal veldt]

Even the US early onwards had to split their carriers, two for Doolittle, two for Coral Sea

[lunar sand]

But they only had 3 Yorktowns....

Who was number 4

[eternal veldt]

Same for Japan with Operation AL/MI

[lunar sand]

[eternal veldt]

Enterprise/Hornet - Task Force 16

Lexington/Yorktown - Task Force 17

[lunar sand]

Ah

Ok so, Atlantic theater of war.

What went wrong, what went right. When did things turn around for the Allies

Especially early on, since I doubt France being removed from play that early on was something the Allies wanted or liked.

[thorn trail]

wait what's with the nicknames to akagi and kaga. What's that referencing in their design?

[alpine onyx]

Depends on the depth of stories you want

I did dig up some interesting stuff from the war diaries of German ships

And there's still much more to uncover

[lunar sand]

Any is fine

Even short stories have merit

[alpine onyx]

Scharnhorst, February 13th 1941: Due to breakers going over the deck the three depth charges of the starboard side depth charge rack were torn free and rolled over the deck. Two charges rolled overboard, of which one detonated, while the third one was thrown overboard by an officer. As ordered the charges had been set to active, but were secured as per the regulations.

Does an officer yeeting a depth charge overboard work?

[lunar sand]

Thats beautiful

But like wtf happened

Did the ocean just knock 3 depth charges loose

[alpine onyx]

Yep

Open depth charge racks

And the sea was brutal

[Context, ~2 days storm preceding] "On these courses across the sea the ship lurches very badly. (21° - 23° to each side). The water washes over the boat deck and submerges the flak. The stresses on the bracing are very severe. The position of the ship when heading against the sea was more tolerable during the pounding, despite the frequent undercutting of the forecastle.
[...]
On inquiry to fleet reported that heavy flak is only partially and only makeshift ready to fire. The cause is as follows:
Remote control and fire control values for the most part failed due to water damage.
Four guns only usable for aiming, elevation and manual operation. Bb II all electrics including telephone and firing unclear. Only two guns still fully serviceable. Three stands malfunctions on stabilization. Further damage expected if weather conditions persist. Recovery largely possible if about 3 days of good weather without icing and with possibility to work on deck.
[...]
Wind WNW 8-10 [17-28m/s], gusty, moderate visibility, rough steep seas, long high swell."```

Just a day before

[lunar sand]

That does beg the question

What is the worst recorded instance in naval history of the Ocean just... not agreeing with a ship

[alpine onyx]

Typhoon Cobra probably

[lunar sand]

Elaborate

[alpine onyx]

A US fleet entered a typhoon due to lacking intel, and left it with three fewer destroyers, almost 800 men dead and a long list of ships damaged (with sizes ranging up to the Iowa class battleships)

[lunar sand]

Dear god...

[dapper parcel]

Halsey bad at reading weather report, three destroyers sunk, multiple carriers damaged, the end...

[lunar sand]

And most likely rescuing the crew of those destroyers was not an option in the weather conditions

[alpine onyx]

Iowa did managed to wreck a shaft

[dapper parcel]

Warped shaft is common when you managed to get the propellers airborne. I'd assume the entire fleet managed to get every single shaft warped, not only Iowa

[lunar sand]

So... on the topic of Iowas

I recently found out why NJ is called the Black dragon

Was she the only Iowa painted that dark? Or did she get that name purely by coincidence.

If she was the only one... why?

[dapper parcel]

I guess that was referencing to MS21? There were other ships painted that way too

The entire Standards were painted MS21

[alpine onyx]

Warped shafts are still kinda an issue, since you can't repair those at sea. But checking quickly, Karlsruhe did not suffer from shaft damage even tho her propeller did fully surface a few times

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1673030367824207872

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1942, the Japanese destroyer Yamakaze was torpedoed and sunk by USS Nautilus (SS-168) about 60 nautical miles from the coast of Japan. Yamakaze had sunk USS Shark (SS-174) a few months earlier. This photo was taken through the periscope of the Nautilus.

#SubSunday

Twitter · Jun 25, 2023, 6:08 PM

[lunar sand]

Submarines

Evil

[lunar sand]

How often do ships need to be repainted? If ever

[dapper parcel]

It is common when shit happen that way, not that it isn't a problem
I was commenting no way only Iowa get her shaft warped considering the amount of hammering. The entire fleet must be

Shaft packing is definitely toast. Gear need inspection due to overspeed, etc

[dapper parcel]

Lol, ship is always at the state of being painted constantly, ask any boatswain

[grave ravine]

Not to be pedantic, but the TBD was plagued by an entirely different fuckfest known as the Mk13 aerial torpedo

And it very much was a major issue, it was so easy to dodge because Soryuu and Hiryuu are literally faster than the torps

And also they could only be released at low speeds

Which contributed a lot to losses

[deep apex]

OH GOD THIS

[deep apex]

Yamakaze was also lost with all hands

[dapper shell]

YOINK

[eternal veldt]

I was thinking more how the Zeroes instantly dived on them with almost no escorting fighters to intercept at all. But right, forgot how horrible early Mark 13 is.

[eternal veldt]

Akagi - funnel emits so much smoke that people mistook the thing to be on fire . The smoke often reaches the living quarters. Portholes could not be opened. Worse, diseases such as tuberculosis and dysentery broke out on board - hence the nickname

Kaga - inhospitable living quarter conditions due to funnel design. ive mentioned this a good number of times here, so searching the nickname should yield you results.

[shrewd pecan]

American MIGs

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1673127559217967104

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1944, USS Texas (BB-35) bombarded Battery Hamburg near Cherbourg, France. A tumbling German 240mm projectile smashed through the port side of the ship but failed to detonate. The projectile was covered with mattresses until being defused when Texas returned to England.

Twitter · Jun 26, 2023, 12:34 AM

[thorn trail]

what is this wire from the bow to the tower in New Mexico for?

[tribal mortar]

History wise

is there any mistake on the ship crafting of the Axis party that lead to their naval defeat?

or some kind of ship crafting miracle in the Allies that indirectly help them in their naval victory?

[thorn trail]

Ship crafting miracle known as the US industrial might

The British and the US had the largest shipbuilding programs

So naval wise it would have been difficult for any of the Axis to attrition the naval forces of the allies

[chilly nimbus]

radio antenna

[thorn trail]

Ah makes sense

[eternal veldt]

There are questionable decisions in the construction of a few ships I can think of, but rarely a few that can really be considered "fatal" or contribute significantly towards the general picture imo

deployment, competence, replaceability, and luck also play vital roles in determining the naval picture of the time period.

Case in point being Bismarck often being bashed as "shit", it's more so just not so efficient tonnage wise for no "spectacular" meritocracy, if not mediocrity in several aspects

Certainly better than some of the literal floating hazards that everyone puts out

cough Hatsuharu Type 1934

[wintry moat]

Least Bismarck wasn't trying to join the Submarine corp at anything above a flat calm

[somber knoll]

I won't exactly call them "mistakes" because all ships have their weaknesses, though that does not mean that they hasted to fix them, what with the wartime and all.

[strong plank]

What if you wanted to become a naval power

but your enemies were Britain and the United States

[inland thicket]

You don't.

Though weirdly enough, the British were underdogs during the 1600s and the Dutch were supreme during that time. It's interesting seeing how much it changes.

[alpine onyx]

There wasn't anything design wise that made the Kriegsmarine fail, as long as they had sufficient numbers they could trade equally with the RN. Can't realistically ask for more.

But when the opponent outnumbers you by at least 3:1, you have a problem

[dapper parcel]

Their entire NotCruiser is not a fail?

[eternal veldt]

The Spanish were quite dominant in the 1500s, especially in the aftermath of getting their grubby hands on the new colonies.

Especially with the treasure fleets. Heavily fortified, and nearly uncracked save for a few times.

[alpine onyx]

It was making the individual ships heavier and caused secondary issues, yes. But the ships themselves still were there and contributed to the 1:1 trading until they ran dry of ships

I don't see that being much different even if the entire 1936A lineage was skipped and Z-23 was completed like Z-35

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/06/25/video-destroyer-uss-carl-levin-commissions-in-baltimore

[tribal mortar]

Note seriously taken

[autumn sorrel]

Well, you could point out that IJN inability to adopt FCR might give them a bit disadvantage, IJN night fighting capability still superb than USN but it only apply if they can spot the US ship and in the case that they can't, US ship with radar complete dominate.

But that not strictly a ship building mistake, more of a strategic decision due the limitation of their industry

[somber knoll]

16 incher Bisko copium

[tribal mortar]

ok...

[ivory ridge]

Bote

[spring briar]

I can’t see

[ivory ridge]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/JMSDF_SDF/status/1673181917938876416

海上自衛隊　自衛艦隊（公式） (@JMSDF_SDF)

6月23日、米国派遣訓練に従事中の護衛艦「すずつき」は、ハワイ周辺海域において、米海軍の支援の下、対空ミサイルESSMの発射訓練を実施しました。艦長の野口２佐は、「本艦は、搭載する武器システムの全能発揮を図り、対空標的撃破に成功し、戦術技量の向上を図りました。」と述べました。 #FOIP

Likes

1081

Retweets

212

Twitter · Jun 26, 2023, 4:10 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHW28rFxVhE

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1673343832337809414

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1942, the Grumman F6F Hellcat flew for the first time. The F6F would become the most successful Navy fighter of WWII, with Hellcat pilots claiming 5,163 victories and a 19:1 kill-to-loss ratio.

Twitter · Jun 26, 2023, 2:53 PM

[chilly osprey]

Nice! I still need to find a new place to order from 😦

[autumn sorrel]

How effective SM 6 are in anti ship mode?

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1673393671113441280

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1944, USS Mercury was attacked by a Japanese torpedo bomber that clipped the ship's cargo boom and cartwheeled into the sea. It was the first and only boom in the Navy to be credited with downing an enemy plane. A victory mark was painted on it by the ship's winchmen.

Twitter · Jun 26, 2023, 6:11 PM

[foggy mist]

Imagine if the CWIS was introduced back in World War II

[manic latch]

Won't change much

Ciws rely on great computers

You dont have that for ww2

So it will be just another AA mount

[chilly osprey]

Yup.

CIWS is a role, not a specific system.

If anything, you might as well point at every machine gun up to 20mm cannon put on a ship and call it CIWS.

[spring briar]

@tough quail

[tough quail]

yaes

[spring briar]

puts 7.62x39mm bullet in 7.62x25mm casing

https://tenor.com/view/surfer-dude-dive-jump-gif-16744121

[manic latch]

@spring briar
https://youtube.com/shorts/Jq_8FcaQuS4?feature=share4

[spring briar]

@manic latch @tough quail
I heard you like penetration so I put a penetrator in your already ludicrous penetration handgun round

[tough quail]

https://c.tenor.com/y7isUX6gGv8AAAAM/taihou-taiho.gif

i still wanna get a tokarev

[manic latch]

Cute

[foggy mist]

Huh. Interesting

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.armytimes.com/industry/techwatch/2023/06/26/heres-who-will-move-forward-in-the-bradley-replacement-competition/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tw_mt

Xm30

Rheimetall and GD

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1673445392095268865

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1987, Stanley Kubrick's FULL METAL JACKET was released. The film is based on the semi-autobiographical novel THE SHORT-TIMERS by Gustav Hasford. Hasford served in Vietnam as a combat correspondent with the 1st Marine Division during the Tet Offensive.
#MovieMonday

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jun 26, 2023, 9:37 PM

https://news.usni.org/2023/06/26/white-house-confident-in-aukus-plan-for-australian-nuclear-powered-submarine-fleet

[mental tapir]

https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-94000/NH-94701.html

Stil so salty that AL's Skyraider's payload was so nerfed compared to what they historically carried

[strong plank]

huh

I’m surprised BAE is out so early

[shrewd pecan]

Griffin supremacy

the Lynx also looks cool

[strong plank]

I don’t think I’ve seen a picture of the Griffin IFV yet

[shrewd pecan]

not sure if they updated their proposal for the restart

[subtle prawn]

This one?

[somber knoll]

When did carriers start moving from "looks like the flight deck is attached to the hull via steel beams" to "actually look integrated to the hull itself" ala modern ones?

at least with the USN, the Sexes look like that perfect intermediary between the two.

[grave ravine]

Oh yeah, I found a Skyraider carrying 3 2000lb bombs and 12 HVARs

[grave ravine]

IMO it's basically as soon as you start getting Hurricane bows, see the Lexington's or Hermes and so on

[somber knoll]

I guess IJN was a bit late to the party

[grave ravine]

I mean the US dropped the Hurricane Bow after the Lexingtons until the Forrestals

While Japan only built 1 carrier with a Hurricane Bow, Taiho

Every British Carrier from Hermes onwards except the Courageous class and Eagle had a hurricane bow

[somber knoll]

Did the heavier and heavier planes play a factor as well?

[grave ravine]

The Lexingtons are unique in that AFAIK they are the only conversions with hurricane bows

[grave ravine]

Partially, heavier aircraft meant that the strength deck was moved from the hangar deck to the flight deck, and from then on you had to have an enclosed hangar, at which point there was no point in not having a hurricane deck and so on

[somber knoll]

Makes sense

[grave ravine]

But that only happened in the 50s

[somber knoll]

The steel support beams of the conversions aside from the Lexingtons looked terrible

[grave ravine]

Yeah, it was generally simpler to make a carrier that was open in front, and it improved ventilation

The Brits were early adopters of the Hurricane bow cuz it was better in rough seas

[somber knoll]

considering that they were supposed to operate primarily in the Atlantic, can't blame them.

[somber knoll]

Yeah, but when I saw them personally I was like

"Damn, that looks like an ez target for bombers".

Good thing heavy rockets wasn't a thing early on the war, otherwise the Kido Butai would sink early on Midway.

[grave ravine]

I mean the thing you have to remember is that for larger bombs the superstructure of a WW2 carrier (except the armored flight deck ones) may as well have been paper mache

Like bombs would just go right through the flight deck if it wasn't armored

[somber knoll]

Poor Hiryuu

hold up, that's Souryuu with the infamous three bomb holes on her deck before being blasted to oblivion, IIRC?

[grave ravine]

Not sure

Though AFAIK of the American and Japanese prewar fleet carriers, the only one not to take a bomb through the flight deck at some point was Saratoga

The theory was that damage above the hangar deck shouldn't doom the ship, but Avgas fires would turn out to be far more lethal than expected

[thorn trail]

Didn't take a bomb through the flight deck but she was a torpedo magnet lol

[grave ravine]

Yeah

[wintry moat]

It's honestly pretty impressive Sara survived the war

[thorn trail]

she and Enty stole all the luck from the other pre-war CVs

[somber knoll]

Avgas fumes + torpedo fire = spectacular firework

[grave ravine]

Torpedoes weren't even needed in a number of cases, see the KDB at Midway

[somber knoll]

Ranger has entered the chat

[grave ravine]

Oh yeah I entirely forgot about Ranger

[desert agate]

yeah but ranger did nothing

she had like 1 big event in her service career and did basically nothing else of note

[grave ravine]

Yep

[somber knoll]

eh, even getting her deployed to the Atlantic is a major luck feat.

[grave ravine]

I mean not really, Ranger may not have been great, but she was still better than the Courageous class or escort carriers, and the only serious threat to carriers in the Atlantic was subs

[desert agate]

given their size and British uh... restrictions, the Courageous class werent that bad

even if 2/3 ate shit and died basically instantly

[grave ravine]

I mean I think both Courageous and Ranger prove the folly of small fleet carriers

Like they were both fine for their displacement, but that's kind of the problem

[desert agate]

and yet, Majestic/Colossus class

[grave ravine]

And Indeps IG

[desert agate]

the 1942s were pretty exceptional ships

[grave ravine]

But the CVLs are budget and expedient vessels

A proper CV is just way better if you can afford it

CVLs had a disturbing tendency to eat shit and die whenever hit by anything

[wintry moat]

Well, didn't the Coarageous class come from Battlecruisers

[desert agate]

especially given how the 42s had a larger airgroup than the Lustys (in some configurations) while being about 10000t lighter (standard displacement), the 42s really were exceptionally designed

[wintry moat]

Really funky Battlecrhisers

[desert agate]

Melbourne even had a stellar record of sinking ships

unfortunately both of those ships were friendly

[grave ravine]

Lustys had dinky ass air groups

[desert agate]

perhaps they should consider not cutting accross the bow of a ship more than twice their displacement

[grave ravine]

But the big problem with CVLs was survivability really, you could get two of them to get air group size

Goofiest CVL has got to be Ryujo tho

[autumn sorrel]

CVL is good for the role that they was assigned to, they help carry additional fighter air group and leave Fleet carriers to focus on striking instead of providing air cover.

[desert agate]

I suppose that the 42s survivability was never actually tested in combat but I will stand by them being among the best carrier designs of WW2

[autumn sorrel]

tbf, she is a loophole that quickly got patch and her performance is meh to say the least.

[eternal veldt]

RE: Ranger, there's a reason she stayed in the Atlantic

For the first carrier, it was reasonably dogshit

[grave ravine]

I mean they were good expedients (sometimes), but a proper CV was usually preferred to a pair of CVLs cuz of the survivability issues, as well as later on the ability to support bigger planes

[eternal veldt]

The Atlantic had really no opposing carriers for her to be afraid of

[subtle prawn]

You mean purpose-built

[eternal veldt]

Yes

Including the mega brained funnel system

[grave ravine]

Ranger was a step back from the Lexs really

The USN experimented with a smaller CV, it didn't work