Their armor thicknesses for Bismarck seem slightly off, but IDK how much that would affect the calculations
#history
chilly osprey
Ex, if we look at the British assumptions for European 15" guns in ADM 239/268 - it seems very likely that they were underestimating their muzzle velocity, or their ballistic shape. They believed the shells were 1,938 lbs (879 kg), like their own modern shells, and assumed that it could penetrate 14" of British belt armor at a 90° inclination at a range of 15,000 yards or greater.
Addendum 2 to ADM 239/268, which is what you posted, shows that they corrected their assumptions about the performance of German shells - they now list weight as 1,764 lb (800 kg), which is correct, and MV at 830 m/s (a bit higher than reality but not too far off).
This increases the range at which they believe the 14" belt can be penetrated to 16,000 yards (and the 15" belt around the magazines from 13,000 yards to 14,000 yards) - if this is the assumption with a much lighter shell, then clearly they were predicting much worse ballistic performance beforehand, either due to ballistic shape or lower MV.
I don't have German estimates on hand, but, I do have Italian estimates for their own 381/50, and their assumptions - which actually lowballs the performance of their new APC shell compared to reality (at least against vertical armor) - placed the penetration of 14" of belt armor (90°) at 24,000 meters (26,000 yards), and a 15" plate at just under 22,000 meters about (24,000 yards).
I don't have the calculation methods for the British handy, but the Italians were using a derivative of the DeMarre formula, which actually pretty seems to model to performance the British were assuming for their 15" shells in service in 1937 (i.e. not the later Mk.XVIIb used on the modernized 15" ships in WWII).
chilly osprey
Also they say this, is this true?
Broadly, yes - though it's also worth noting that the Germans did this because they could reasonably get away with it, between the relative insensitivity of their propellant (and that half their ammunition was cased).
It's still not a brilliant arrangement on the part of the Germans, but they had more of an ability to get away with it than most other navies (everyone but probably the Americans).
spring briar
It’s pretty weird ngl
We know the entente studied german propellants and incorporated some of their findings into their own solventless propellants
But then we have shit like Hood and Bretagne exploding
It’s a mess
chilly osprey
Yep
And always hard to work backwards on cases like those because so much of the evidence is atomized
spring briar
But Bretagne I might atleast explain because for older ships the MN might still have been using the older propellant
Dunkerque used the new propellant and she only burned when her turret was hit
And afaik when French DD’s or CA’s for hit by large caliber BB shells, they did not explode
But idk
It’s a mess
Do we even have cases of DD’s in WW2 having their mags detonate?
chilly osprey
Yes
Either from torpedo hits, or sometimes direct hits from shellfire.
Off the top of my head it happened to one of the Navigatori
spring briar
Torps detonated?
chilly osprey
I'm pretty sure it was the gun magazines - Italian torpedoes usually didn't explode when hit
Ah, yeah, it was Alvise da Mosto in action against two British light cruisers and a destroyer.
chilly osprey
Penelope and Aurora
deep apex
Ah
Alvise charged in an effort to buy time for the merchants she was escorting, right?
Or am I getting confused again?
chilly osprey
That's correct
She charged them down to keep them occupied and to try and deliver a torpedo attack
deep apex
Sometimes the Regia Marina's destroyers makes me question if they counted bravery over skill
chilly osprey
After the range got down to 10,000 meters she made a hard turn to port, and started laying port, to confuse the British fire (since they were getting quite close to her). This bought her another 2,000 meters, so when she burst out of the smokescreen the range was 8,000 meters, at which point she closed again, launched four torpedoes at somewhere around 6,000 to 7,000 meters, and then turned back to fall back into the smokescreen. However, just as she was starting to turn over, a 6" salvo hit aft (at 18.09) and detonated the no.3 gun magazine, and apparently some of the depth charges too, which blew off the stern.
At that point she became a sitting duck and attracted more fire, though the rest of her guns kept firing until the list became to great to bear the guns. She sank at 18.15.
deep apex
The merchants she was escorting were sunk right?
chilly osprey
Yeah
deep apex
Unfortunate
chilly osprey
She was escorting a single ship, but it had been crippled by air attack
Which is how Force K found the two Italian ships.
Da Mosto was picking up survivors from the ship, in fact, which was already settling by the stern.
chilly osprey
Sometimes the Regia Marina's destroyers makes me question if they counted braver...
It was a mix of doctrine, and destroyer skipper ethos.
Like in most navies, destroyer captains were typically younger, and more aggressive officers. And in the RM, a destroyer was expected to close in as much as reasonable to deliver an effective torpedo attack - especially when dealing with larger ships, where their torpedoes were by far the most effective weapon. Ironically had Dell'Anno only been faced by destroyers, he might have played it more conservatively.
deep apex
Still I don't blame him
chilly osprey
They definitely had balls in spades - and it has to be said, it takes some ship handling skill to get a destroyer in from a range of 16 to 18,000 meters (the range the British opened fire) to just 6,000 meters before taking your first hit, especially when under fire by two 6" light cruisers.
Where things fall short, IMO, is the torpedo doctrine for the Italians. The principle of not flushing all tubes in one go to keep some reserve (usually 1/3rd) for use later in the action was generally not borne out by the war - hitting comes from throwing as many torpedoes as you can in one go, as close as you can reasonably get. And given that Italian destroyers carried no more than six torpedoes, this was just too few to hold back any in a single-ship salvo.
grave ravine
Didn't Amatsukaze's forward mags blow as well?
junior trench
Laffey the Second's aft mag went up
spiral cedar
subtle prawn
swift silo
I've been doing some research on Laffey (DD-459), she's got a little bit of a clumsy streak it seems. I got near enough a full timeline of her service history at this point. Not just the commissioned at the end of March followed by a time jump to Cape Esperence I've usually seen.
shrewd pecan
still flying
spring briar
@delicate beacon i hit the jackpot
spring briar
Found a stash of all shells on public display in Japan
spring briar
Largest dutcg caliber that fought against ijn?
And largest dutch east indies coastal defence caliber?
delicate beacon
Any.
Coastal would be interesting too since you'd probably get some old USN guns.
spring briar
Hahahaga it even has German shells from Tsingtao
@manic latch
254mm Russian shell
From the Russo-Japanese war
manic latch
<@688903088819404825>
Small
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
autumn sorrel
Chonky
ivory ridge
chilly osprey
Bemused they include Italy in with the F-16 countries, given they were a rental to tide them over until enough EF-2000 arrived.
shrewd pecan
manic latch
USS James E. Williams (DDG 95) Arleigh Burke-class Flight IIA guided missile destroyer leaving Toulon, France - May 22, 2023
wintry moat
Looking a little worse for wear
deep apex
Chemistry
remote monolith
Looking a little worse for wear
side effect of entering a French controlled area, happens to all of us
eternal veldt
Any ship on active service is going to look like a rustbucket after a month or two without paint maintenance
wintry moat
Just saying she looks a little rough around the edges
eternal veldt
Part of the charm
violet basin
This at Elmendorf?
violet basin
ya, very nice picture
manic latch
manic latch
subtle prawn
manic latch
ivory ridge
spring briar
Time to compile the results of my
1:25 scale 305mm vs wooden board tests
30° obliquity
clean pass through
30° obliquity #2
clean pass through
30° obliquity #3
hit near the edge, clean pass through and significant spalling
0° obliquity, with backing
clean pass through of board and backing
0° obliquity, with backing #2
clean pass through of board and backing
0° obliquity, double thickness board with backing
clean pass through of thick board and backing
45° obliquity, double thickness board with backing
shell stuck in back of board after pass through (hit the backstop, otherwise would've kept going)
@delicate beacon @maiden citrus @spiral cedar
delicate beacon
spring briar
conclusion:
wood is rubbish armor
shrewd pecan
maiden citrus
needs thicker wood
manic latch
subtle prawn
desert agate
conclusion:
wood is rubbish armor
my next RTW3 campaign will be fought with the wooden armour challenge
eternal veldt
When your crew all die from wood splinters:
humble mulch
Gonna have some nice flash fires
desert agate
flash fires? you mean intentional illumination devices?
spiral cedar
Self-activating emergency smokescreen and illumination systems
eternal veldt
Self-fuelling and self-activating bonfire camping kit
wintry moat
Mass Crew Vanishing act
strong plank
this will have a minor effect on your surface detection radius
somber knoll
oof
dapper parcel
This should be logistics training
desert agate
It's for HADR, yes
As global warming creates more intense weather events in the region, we need to cooperate to ensure our HADR procedures are well practiced and compatible with eachother
eternal veldt
frozen kestrel
Just want to confirm, but are these actual blueprints of Prinz Eugen?
delicate beacon
I dont see why they wouldn't be, aside from a lack of Bundesarchiv stamps.
alpine onyx
They are, but if you want higher res you should get them directly from invenio/german federal archive
These are reposted by dreadnoughtproject, geniune prints, but watermark and downscaled
frozen kestrel
Invenio, huh? Wait... does that mean I can just find most of the Kriegsmarine blueprints there?
delicate beacon
Yup
frozen kestrel
That's gonna make my life like 3,000x easier
delicate beacon
untill you get to the undigitalised parts
delicate beacon
Sirene, why are the things I want not digitalised.
frozen kestrel
Bismarck's blueprints cause me pain
well, time to pull out my translator because I can't understand half of the UI
delicate beacon
Pretty sure I linked them less than a week ago to someone here
alpine onyx
But be careful since there's a set of Bisko prints before they changed the caliber
With some spicy differences to the end result
solid mango
Ooh hey dis do be interesting, just gonna lurk here 
frozen kestrel
But be careful since there's a set of Bisko prints before they changed the calib...
frozen kestrel
well, guess I'll figure that one out eventually
how do you even use this website? Like half of the ui isn't working
delicate beacon
You open folders on the left, one you're down enough you have to use the bottom left. Then all records are on the right and you clock on digital anzeigen (if available) or w/e to view them.
If you're on mobile tough luck
eternal veldt
Suche
type these in, and the results should pop up on the left
Alternatively, I may be able to provide what you need on hand
frozen kestrel
okay, so I just went to the link with Bismarck's blueprints and found Eugen's in the oddly organized side folders
this website is causing me pain
solid mango
eternal veldt
If you are only looking for the profile drawings, you should be looking for something called Längsschnitt
In which case, you will get Eugen's design as originally designed
eternal veldt
Just want to confirm, but are these actual blueprints of Prinz Eugen?
this one will show you , without the watermarks.
In which case, I have the full resolution of.
note that even these prints are not completely accurate; for example, this pair of flak directors were not installed on Prinz Eugen until her refits in Brest ~late 1941, as they were sold off to Germany. If by chance you're striving for 100% accuracy (if it can even be achieved), then photos are your best friend.
frozen kestrel
note that even these prints are not completely accurate; for example, this pair ...
That'll be helpful for when I model USS Prinz Eugen
frozen kestrel
Is there a website similar to this for Japanese warships? Or was everything for the IJN kept under wraps?
eternal veldt
Yuzuru Hiraga's Archive contains information to a select few warships, especially those of the 8-8 fleet plan.
Some are also conveniently written in English.
frozen kestrel
Nice
solid mango
Oh my
subtle prawn
desert agate
Single engine moment
humble mulch
Eagle fans be wild
strong plank
At NAVSEA rn and they’ve got some cool historical shit on display including Balao’s island, will try to take pics
the USN putting its coolest historical displays in its most secure areas
It’s so close yet so far
stiff mauve
runic prairie
Pretty sure that’s a Lance missile.
strong plank
Apparently the Navy yard had a museum ship but she was scrapped in 2015
FUCK
Mfw I leave before remembering that’s where they’ve got the Yamato armor plate
Didn’t get a chance to see it
thorn trail
Apparently the Navy yard had a museum ship but she was scrapped in 2015
which museum ship was it?
subtle prawn
spring briar
probably 5.25"
wintry moat
Ayo that salvager got a gun
Is from that raid on the Illegal Repulse and Wales salvage ops
manic latch
Is from that raid on the Illegal Repulse and Wales salvage ops
Of course
Video was surfaced today
ivory ridge
Is it 381mm or 356mm?
video says 134
manic latch
Ah
wintry moat
So yeah about 5 inch gun
subtle prawn
wintry moat
That is wild
grave ravine
Wallis made a lot of interesting stuff
spiral cedar
Base and nose fuzed
spring briar
No base fuze
Just a base plug
You need something to plug the hole through which you fill the burster cavity ofc
subtle prawn
charred coral
it does look like something from 2065 (when Thunderbirds was set)
manic latch
dapper parcel
48N6
autumn sorrel
HQ-9?
autumn sorrel
Hmm, I remember a report said their capability is equal to PMU1 model, that would make them on par with system on Kirov, no?
Oh wait, wrong model of S-300 on Kirov 
autumn sorrel
I guess, during the collapse and Russian gov start selling weapon for everyone?
chilly osprey
Russia was more willing to sell than the USSR and China was offering the cash
Because the PLAN had bugger all for air defense at the time
Prior to the Type 051C's (two ships, each with 48x S-300FM in VLS), the PLAN's air defense was basically navalized Buk being fired out of single arm launchers.
And lots of Crotale/Crotale knockoffs
subtle prawn
desert agate
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
autumn sorrel
https://news.usni.org/2023/05/25/u-k-royal-navy-distressed-and-concerned-by-ille...
It always the Chinese
wintry moat
Bastards...
subtle prawn
prisma oar
better armor and 1 more main gun
8 15 inch guns vs 9 15 inch guns
12,6 inches of armor on bis vs 14 inches on littorio's belt
4.7 maximum on deck for bis and 6.4 on deck for littorio
and littorio and vv weren't sunk by biplanes and most of the littorio survived the war
manic latch
12,6 inches of armor on bis vs 14 inches on littorio's belt
Bismarck has 110mm turtleback behind the 320mm belt armor
prisma oar
that didn't help it against the KGV
the littorio and the vittorio veneto both survived the war and weren't crippled to death by biplanes
manic latch
If you put Littorio to same situation as Bismarck would she survive lad
prisma oar
she survived more battles
the whole escape to the sea plan was terrible
should had relied on subs
manic latch
she survived more battles
What is the most dangerous battleship Littorio fought against?
prisma oar
she fought against warspite and I Forgot the other goobs
manic latch
she fought against warspite and I Forgot the other goobs
That's Veneto yes, but she managed to escape
prisma oar
pretty much the roma just got guided bomb'd
and idk if to count Impero
as was just yeeted
Bismarck also has the very notable design flaw of its central fire control cabling being above the armor meaning one hit likely take that out like historically
upgraded tirpitz would be a different story
better radar and comparably better shells
but VV still has a better full broadside capacity
grave ravine
Eh, VVs were better ships, but yeah there was no way anyone was escaping the British hunt for the Bismarck, even a Yamato probably would have gone down to the forces arrayed against Bismarck
prisma oar
real
its like the TBD torpedo situation vs swordfish
ive had people tell me the swordfish was better yes, it had a better operational history than the TBD that is obvious
but the TBD was shafted by the fucking terrible shit that was the Mark 13
grave ravine
But VVs guns were better, had more guns, had better armor, and was like 5k tons lighter
prisma oar
the amount of time I spent arguing how the TBD was better than the swordfish
in a youtube comments
its unreal
grave ravine
Bruh people actually claim swordfish is better lol
prisma oar
give the TBD an actual good torpedo and it would shaft the swordfish any day
grave ravine
I mean to be clear TBD was outdated by 1942, it had other issues
prisma oar
Bruh people actually claim swordfish is better lol
BUT MUH RAID AT TARANTO/BISMARCK RUDDER
grave ravine
But a Swordfish was just worse
Like TBD had a serious issue of just being very slow compared to Avenger
spring briar
found the regia marina simp
prisma oar
found the regia marina simp
manic latch
Bismarck also has the very notable design flaw of its central fire control cabli...
Poor Sirene is trying his best to fight against this
"Literally every battleship ran unprotected (or at best splinter protected) fire control cables to some posts. As did South Dakota, Yamato, Vanguard, basically every modern battleship.
The moment you have a rangefinder on your superstructure you need to run a cable to it, and beyond splinter protection it will be unprotected"
grave ravine
Poor Sirene is trying his best to fight against this
"Literally every battlesh...
Does Bismarck have a comparatively larger section of above deck cabling? Or does the idea stem from somewhere else?
manic latch
Does Bismarck have a comparatively larger section of above deck cabling? Or does...
Bismarck is ruined by her hardcore fans vs hardcore shitters
ivory ridge
found the regia marina simp
prisma oar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/651823796453638144/1036911307661787156/...
assemble
ivory ridge
my discord crashed for posting that gif
prisma oar
lmao
ivory ridge
it's a sign
manic latch
Bismarck is ruined by her hardcore fans vs hardcore shitters
Hardcore shitters focus on her radar getting disabled when Massachusetts and New Jersey had same events
grave ravine
Bismarck is ruined by her hardcore fans vs hardcore shitters
Yeah, I mean at the end of the day it's still a modern 40,000t battleship
prisma oar
#survivedthewar
prisma oar
grave ravine
While she probably is the worst of her generation of battleships, the differences between the ships were not massive, and various tactical factors were likely going to play a larger role in any fight between them
wintry moat
tbf, Germany hadnt built a proper battleship in what 10 years
grave ravine
Unless you put Bismarck or VV in a night action against like a KGV or SoDak, that would be fairly one sided
prisma oar
Nelson retrofit good
maiden citrus
it's pretty one sided in general, sodak vs bismarck
prisma oar
it is
maiden citrus
the immune zone for sodak turrets vs bismarck's guns is close range even by wows standards
manic latch
tbf, Germany hadnt built a proper battleship in what 10 years
Neither Italy. Isn't Cesares are from ww1
wintry moat
I think the Ventos aren't awful warship either
spring briar
France hadn't built a BB since the 1910's either
prisma oar
launched in 1911
spring briar
maiden citrus
meanwhile bismarck's immune zone is like -20,000 yards
wintry moat
they aren't WW2 German DDs
prisma oar
Neither Italy. Isn't Cesares are from ww1
launched in 1911 and retrofitted around the interwar
manic latch
France hadn't built a BB since the 1910's either
Strasbourg is secret BB shut
grave ravine
Battleship holiday exists guys
maiden citrus
so tbf vs some bbs it truly was massive
prisma oar
around 1925 I think
prisma oar
Battleship holiday exists guys
real
if you want eye bleach for a terrible BB design here
manic latch
Everyone knows this
ivory ridge
tbf, Germany hadnt built a proper battleship in what 10 years
Reminder that the Scharns were started AFTER the Littorios
manic latch
***I hate it***
Bet you never see this
prisma oar
what in th gad damn
ivory ridge
like 7-8 months after
wintry moat
I love these
strong plank
Battleships designed by the utterly deranged
wintry moat
Looks like a orc got ahold of a WW2 ship
delicate beacon
Ahhhh we have a redname show up and the conversation is gone to shitters.
Perfection
delicate beacon
Cute cat. Have an italian bote design on the house
!
spring briar
It’s loading
delicate beacon
delicate beacon
Why are her rivets not blowing apart after being shot at.
spring briar
Perhaps the Germonians are firing AP
manic latch
manic latch
delicate beacon
Kremlin, maybe it bri
Fucking discord
I had the bug that keeps closing your keyboard on mobile
Kremlin, maybe it brings joy to you when I mention the Russian fleet scared the Dutch when it transitioned through the DEI to Tsushima.
It was the first time a first class European navy traversed the region.
manic latch
Kremlin, maybe it brings joy to you when I mention the Russian fleet scared the ...
Who doesn't scare Dutch
spring briar
The British fleet in the Medway
delicate beacon
Also Richy good news
May get 15" shell pics
I have an agent going to Tyne and Wear 
spring briar
wintry moat
May get 15" shell pics
Cool
subtle prawn
https://twitter.com/JCLarsonneur/status/1661805521517568000 Studies for a second PA-Ng apparently
spring briar
Oui oui
autumn sorrel
Bet you never see this
This remind of a ship from Dystopian war, not double hull but it has a twin carl gustav at the stern
subtle prawn
dapper parcel
It was the first time a first class European navy traversed the region.
Huh, no way this is true. Hongkong/Weihaiwei/Singapore exists
I guess there were no full battlefleet yet
delicate beacon
Yeah
thorn trail
Wait the Kron ingame is based on the Kron battlecruisers irl right?
delicate beacon
Ye
subtle prawn
alpine onyx
Does Bismarck have a comparatively larger section of above deck cabling? Or does...
Don't think that there's any work into getting accurate numbers there, since that'd require some extremely detailed blueprints. Gut feeling says that yes, Bismarck has a higher probability of getting a cable hit per shell hit, as the German approach to external fire control components (so directors, rangefinders and control posts) was that any single one can be hit and disabled, and the only way to protect them was to have multiples of each spread out as far as possible. So something like on say the Richelieus, where three rangefinders get stacked on top, is not gonna fly on a German design. If you want to hold that approach against them though...
thorn trail
Ye
if so why is her armament a 305mm, when the irl Kron's were planned to have 380mm guns?
the 305mm guns seem to be more from the Stalingrad class
maiden citrus
https://tenor.com/view/bullet-burger-yummy-hungry-gif-12526641
my newest defense system
eternal veldt
if so why is her armament a 305mm, when the irl Kron's were planned to have 380m...
Project 69 vs Project 69I
Once the deal with Germany went through, it was proposed to rearm Kronk with the 38cm guns
thorn trail
Once the deal with Germany went through, it was proposed to rearm Kronk with the...
Ah so basically the one ingame was before 69I?
thorn trail
How easy is it actually to just replace guns on a BB?
actually that reminds me
like
the Scharnhorst's were planned to be refitted with the same kind of weapons Bisko had
How easy would it be?
alpine onyx
On the Scharnhorsts a bit more work, as they had to lengthen the bow a bit to give it more bouyancy
desert agate
for a standard barrel replacement, typically provisions are made in the design to make it easier to replace guns, as they get worn out after a few hundred rounds fired
for an upgunning, more work is required since you need to ensure bouyancy is taken into account, but you also need to ensure the magazines and shell hoists are able to take the new rounds
thorn trail
were there dreadnoughts that had been upgunned after their commissioning
desert agate
yes
alpine onyx
Easier than getting those 380mm twins in
thorn trail
which specific ones?
thorn trail
So only those 2?
desert agate
they were still basically the same gun, but they were rebored to allow a larger shell
thorn trail
Nothing as big as the 283 to 380 the Scharn's were planned to be?
alpine onyx
You can look at the Mogamis for that
alpine onyx
But not on the BB scale
On paper it happened with the North Carolinas, but the "weaker" turrets never materialised
thorn trail
were there any "planned" ones other than the Scharn's?
or were the Scharn's the only ones with that big of an upgun that was planned?
desert agate
none im aware of
dapper parcel
Mogami wasn't exactly simple replacement either
They still had to design a new turret (or at least the drive flat) due to the barbette size, Iowa fuckup-style
eternal veldt
Tone class: How about I fuck it up even harder and need to design another turret for it
strong plank
The USN fucking up with the Iowas and accidentally creating arguably the best 16” guns of the war
spring briar
Well sorta
Depends on what you prefer
Iowa is a safer bet against most targets
strong plank
well at least the best within the USN’s arsenal
spring briar
maiden citrus
manic latch
if so why is her armament a 305mm, when the irl Kron's were planned to have 380m...
Soviets realized development of 305mm/54 guns of Kron would take a while. So decided to buy the existing 380mm guns and barrels in Germany
It had inferior range and penetration? But better hitting power etc, so Soviets saw trade fair
manic latch
well at least the best within the USN’s arsenal
Nah
16"/56 Mark 4 was the best 406mm
914m/s shell velocity with 914kg AP
It should have even worse barrel life than Soyuz/Littorio guns but
It was based
manic latch
It should have even worse barrel life than Soyuz/Littorio guns but
Ah it did
high muzzle velocity of the prototype resulted in very short liner life of only 45 rounds, with a predicted liner life of 125 full charge rounds for the service weapon. During the early stages of the design process for the Iowa-class battleship, the gun was briefly considered for the main battery, but was rejected due to short liner life; the belt armor of the Montana class was also designed against the 16"/56 cal gun
God if only Iowa had those
spring briar
So its a bad gun
alpine onyx
Just 355/356mm everything
subtle prawn
manic latch
What's ridiculous about it tho,
Maybe unmanned turret but most next gen tank ideas of countries have such choices
ivory ridge
strong plank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfCG0bNxVL4
I mean to give it some credit
It does look good
and looking good is about all it’s expected to do
manic latch
and looking good is about all it’s expected to do
What's wrong with it? Especially near something like T-90?
It has better firepower, mobility?, protection over it
It has better electronics, much superior crew protection
Main downside near it is it's cost
Actually I should ask this
Do you like M1A2 or Abrams X more Regal
I can understand where you are coming from if you prefer A2 over X
shy haven
isnt the abrams X a tech demonstrator rather than a actual combat tank?
manic latch
isnt the abrams X a tech demonstrator rather than a actual combat tank?
A tech demonstrator for possible future choices of Sep v4 or above yes.
But has features like unmanned turret, autoloader, New engine, autocannon, new optics etc
So I'm trying to understand if Regal doesn't like it because of its low production numbers or design choices like unmanned turret, reliance on cameras etc
strong plank
So my problem with the T14 is like
are we talking about the T-14 as it should be, or as it is?
manic latch
Who do we know as it is, you Armata crew member? 
manic latch
20 ish by visual
So you dont like it because of production numbers
Which I understand
Same problem of 57
strong plank
Not because of production numbers
if it were a technology demonstrator a lot of its issues could be overlooked
Stuff like it’s low numbers, shenanigans with its engine, etc
Because a technology demonstrator’s just meant to show that a particular design choice is possible and viable
Armata’s issues are somewhat magnified by the fact that it’s constantly held up as “the next evolution in tanks” or some flavor of that
manic latch
Armata’s issues are somewhat magnified by the fact that it’s constantly held up ...
Next gen actually accepted as tank of 2000s irrc. So type 10 was first
ivory ridge
it's a supposedly new groundbreaking tank from a nation that spent the last 30 years just upgrading soviet stockpiles, and literally all their new projects have ended with very low numbers, from IFVs to Amphibious air droppable light tanks to wheeled APC/IFVs
manic latch
Them came K2 etc
strong plank
Don’t get me wrong there are a few things I do like about it
I think the common chassis idea of the platform is a smart one
manic latch
it's a supposedly new groundbreaking tank from a nation that spent the last 30 y...
Likely result of underestimating costs alot, when you have similar budget with Britain you should likely follow their style. They are going for Challenger 3 instead a new tank for a reason
strong plank
I mean it was even something the US was considering in the early 2000s with the FCS program
manic latch
I think the common chassis idea of the platform is a smart one
Is it? US tried it and even they failed it with gigantic budget 
humble mulch
The panzer 38t did it well
manic latch
~~The panzer 38t did it well~~
Ww2 was easy since you had no complex shit 
shy haven
well everything depend on what tank it is
manic latch
Now even US is not sure if they should develop new tank or go by Seps
strong plank
Reminds me
I’ve still got an army science board publication on future tank concepts that I still need to read
manic latch
Decisive Lethality Platform (DLP) will be Abrams replacement
We have no idea what it looks like however
Or if it will ever happen
night heart
Hey , you guys saw they got a 3d scab fir the titanc
Imagine if they do the same for hms hood and kms bismarck and ijn yamato
cinder escarp
Common chassis are a good idea done many times. But any chassis that includes a tank as one of the variants is going to be expensive and bulky, and many armies balk at that.
grave ravine
Im a bit skeptical of putting your primary IFV on the same chassis as your tanks, generally speaking people don't demand that level of protection on IFVs, and typically you want lighter vehicles where possible. While there could be a role for heavy IFVs in certain environments, I personally don't see them getting mass acceptance.
cinder escarp
Pretty much every MICV study ever has recommended sharing a chassis with the MBT to have similar protection and mobility.
This... pretty much doesn't happen as armies balk at the cost and logistics.
ivory ridge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1111748954120540251/IMG_3899.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1111748961921937499/IMG_3900.jpg
thorn trail
Ok how true is it that a Hellcat in Guadalcanal beat a bomber to death with its landing gear?
Wait no it was a Wildcat
but yeah how true is it?
hallow roost
by the way, what blueprints are the new event ships based on?
subtle prawn
Regensburg is M-class like Magdeburg, Otto von Alvensleben is 1937J, and Jade was a planned conversion of the liner Gneisenau
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
low vault
how credible is this history lesson? https://youtu.be/tgbQ0PFfQBY
subtle prawn
stiff mauve
Bet you never see this
wtf you got a source?
tribal mortar
charred coral
delicate beacon
wtf you got a source?
It's not real
Nobody sane would design a ship thats just 2 ships glued together.
solid mango
Pink bote
nimble willow
Bet you never see this
Bismarck Sechs-Neun to be released in 2069
spring briar
autumn sorrel
oh yea? Then explain this, sang.
Please be real thing
stiff mauve
It's not real
I know it's not real, I'm just looking for the artist who did it to see what other cursed stuff they made
supple sandal
tribal mortar
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3S-ODPwQ01M
manic latch
shrewd pecan
subtle prawn
frozen kestrel
Anyone know what this thing is on the back of IX-300 Prinz Eugen?
frozen kestrel
Pink bote <:Glowow:611004137210904579>
Yes, Nevada and her blatant refusal to sink.
desert agate
Anyone know what this thing is on the back of IX-300 Prinz Eugen?
Got the full pic?
Looks like a pilot boat of some description
eternal veldt
Anyone know what this thing is on the back of IX-300 Prinz Eugen?
Propeller guard, if you are referring to the extended boom.
Once extended, it would stop things from getting close and damaging the prop.
grave ravine
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f-15ex-no-longer-heading-to-oregon-trainin...
lol what are they doing?
dapper parcel
Germans do that style of vertically folding prop guard a lot on their larger ships
The one on scharnhorst probably illustrate its purpose the best
delicate beacon
I'm looking for art references and I find lots of historical pictures on pinterest
dapper parcel
Wait what? Pinterest hits that doesn't pollute image search result? wow
spring briar
I'm looking for art references and I find lots of historical pictures on pintere...
This
Pinterest has given me many shell and gun pictures
subtle prawn
frozen kestrel
Why does that remind me of the AR from Halo?
spring briar
Belgian engineering
strong plank
Tactical tuna
manic latch
I don't like things below 12.7mm
But humans are too weak to use it as normal infantry 
delicate beacon
Sirene
Where would I look for photos taken by Germans
https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/20c59e6f-75cc-4063-85d0-c5856e3c180c/
12 cm Beutegeschütz (Belgien)
Enthält auch :
K 3: 15 cm Flak (Gerät 50), Seelenrohr, März 1936
cursed
wintry moat
What in the world
frozen kestrel
Hey, I just got the Type 91 AP shell. Historically speaking, who does it belong to?
subtle prawn
ivory ridge
Hey, I just got the Type 91 AP shell. Historically speaking, who does it belong ...
The type 91 was a design used in guns from 155 to 460mm
given it's a BB aux it's either Nagato's or Yamato's
but we also have the type 1 for Yamato
dapper parcel
Hey, I just got the Type 91 AP shell. Historically speaking, who does it belong ...
"Type" in Japanese parlance refer to a series of items using the same design instead of referring to specific line item
ivory ridge
Type 91 is the diving shell
dapper parcel
Type 91 for example refer to a shell design adopted in year 2591 (1931 Gregorian) which had distinct boattail and diving characateristics
There were 155mm, 203mm, 365mm, 410mm and 460mm variants of it
The white shells are all Type 91.
From left 356mm, 410mm, and two 460mm
long swallow
Stubby red shell
frozen kestrel
So Type 91 goes to Nagato?
ivory ridge
it's a BB aux
so on all BCs and BBs
other than like musashi cuz type 1
even if she would be fine with 91 as well
Also not uhhh
Mikasa
Obviously
frozen kestrel
Mikasa had been long out of service by that time, correct?
frozen kestrel
Cemented?
long swallow
It not on the water
dapper parcel
Yamato still got type 91 until very late IIRC
I'm not even sure if she ever actually fielded 46cm Type 1
shadow frost
Anyone know the naming conventions for USS and IJN ships? I know at least that USS battleships are named after states, cruisers are cities, and destroyers are people.
long swallow
IJN are Mountains I think?
ivory ridge
Anyone know the naming conventions for USS and IJN ships? I know at least that U...
apparently you asked this 6 months ago
shadow frost
apparently you asked this 6 months ago
It's just a burning memory...
ivory ridge
long swallow
Oh nooo
eternal veldt
thorn trail
What was the most advanced French CL in WW2?
ivory ridge
What was the most advanced French CL in WW2?
La Galis
alpine onyx
Sirene
Sometimes the archives have a "Bilderband", a collection of pics taken. Damage reports have them sometimes. Otherwise, probably need a lot of luck
desert agate
night heart
Oh 3D scan?
yeah , its quite high detail
manic latch
desert agate
Lol
frozen kestrel
Why do Prinz Eugen's aft turrets have different geometry compared to her forward turrets?
spring briar
Why do Prinz Eugen's aft turrets have different geometry compared to her forward...
in order to incorporate the rangefinders
frozen kestrel
I mean why are they a different shape. They grey areas are the models of the forward turrets I duplicated and put back there
frozen kestrel
well, if that's the case, it's going to make this 3,000x more annoying
manic latch
Blame Germans I guess
delicate beacon
Go check photos to see if they were actually different
Otherwise either the blueprint or scanning is off.
waif
frozen kestrel
I keep seeing ones with AA mounts on turrets B and C
Okay, I found a recognition drawing of her, and the top of turret C has a noticeable slant to it.
stiff mauve
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1032033411822522484/1112275625198227547/EuropaBlueprint.jpg
frozen kestrel
I'm guessing that's another one of Germany's old carrier projects?
delicate beacon
Europa conversion
Didn't know it was digitalised
I went past it yesterday even
desert agate
@alpine onyx is the expert on this topic
id say it would have something to do with deflecting the blast from the superfiring turret
frozen kestrel
Since I'm taking a break from modelling Prinz Eugen because her geometry beginning to give me a headache, does anyone have blueprints for either the Sims- or Benson-class destroyers?
delicate beacon
https://maritime.org/doc/plans/index.php
DD-616 is a Benson
frozen kestrel
Oh hell yeah! Saratoga's plans are here too!
Greatly appreciate this asset man
So many blueprints for models I want to make. This is amazing
dapper parcel
That's general plan, not blueprint 
alpine onyx
Why do Prinz Eugen's aft turrets have different geometry compared to her forward...
I doubt that the shape is different between fore and rear turrets. Keep in mind that those plans were hand drawn, and that the exact dimensions of turrets were determined by detailed turret plans (you can find some of them in RM24).
Superfiring ones as mentioned, differently shaped for the rangefinder
stiff mauve
Didn't know it was digitalised
Its not. But I found it in two parts and stitched it back together
alpine onyx
Looks like Kingpin's library, which has lots of German CV prints
alpine onyx
Scharnhorst Kai?
delicate beacon
stiff mauve
Looks like Kingpin's library, which has lots of German CV prints
Its from some site cant remember that had access to Bundesarchive
delicate beacon
alpine onyx
Also on note of general blueprint confusion, there's a foreship plan for H-39 that shows a citadel deck strength of 50mm
delicate beacon
Extended deck?
stiff mauve
Dont think they have any 1047 plans but I can take a look
alpine onyx
Sometimes those plans should be cross-checked for accuracy
delicate beacon
Do you know the site?
alpine onyx
Nope, citadel deck
delicate beacon
RM 7/3272 - Niederlande, Kreuzer, Zerstörer, U-Boote, Torpedojäger, sonstige Schiffe: Beschreibung, Aufnahmen, niederl. Material, Presseausschnitte, Planung für Schlachtschiff, 1938-1943
RM 7/3245 - Konstruktionszeichnungen u. a. des niederl. schweren Kreuzers "Tromp"
RM 20/1912 - Neubauplan (...) Entwurf holländisches Schlachtschiff
RM 11/13 - Bauunterlagen für holländisches Schlachtschiff
~~waiting for the 
~~
alpine onyx
Sang, should I tell you that I'll be spending a few months 500m away from the federal archive in ~ a year?
alpine onyx
I am already furiously writing down archive numbers to look into
delicate beacon
I've been doing the same over the years.
stiff mauve
@delicate beacon there’s ths? But dont know if it’s actual blueprints or just somebody’s line drawings: https://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Special_battlecruiser.htm
delicate beacon
Why does everyone link me that.
stiff mauve
Because it seems to be the primary source (thus far) for it?
delicate beacon
It's the WI article. There's also some other chapters in books.
And I have the original Marineblad article.
For primary sources I'll have to go to the Hague though.
frozen kestrel
Hull's basically done
stiff mauve
RM 7/3272 - Niederlande, Kreuzer, Zerstörer, U-Boote, Torpedojäger, sonstige Sch...
Here's 11/13 but I dont have anything on 20/1912
delicate beacon
stiff mauve
Haven’t a clue what specifically its about in regards to 1047 though
frozen kestrel
Sorry to keep bugging you guys with questions like this, but what kind of torpedo disabled Bismarck?
eternal veldt
contact warhead, or are you looking specifically for the specifications of the torpedo?
frozen kestrel
The model, I think? I keep thinking of the Mark 13, but that's an American torp as far as I remember
eternal veldt
Mark XII
frozen kestrel
The Mark XII? Alright. I'll see if I can find a cross section of one
Once again, modelling things.
alpine onyx
Third time was the charm
frozen kestrel
I don't follow
frozen kestrel
contact warhead, or are you looking specifically for the specifications of the t...
I'm guessing these things bend backward and the thing explodes?
alpine onyx
Third torpedo that hit Bismarck was the one that disabled her
frozen kestrel
oh
subtle prawn
past crystal
hello friends.
past crystal
I am new here
my name is symphonix and uhh
yeah thats probably it
someone sent me here from #al-general
they say i should go chat here instead
past crystal
this channel needs to be revived fr
spring briar
did it die??
spring briar
past crystal
smh
spring briar
subtle prawn
ivory ridge
manic latch
We miss you Undef
sullen canyon
need a random wehrb with a very bad opinion to revive the channel
Okay I'll try something then. How about we talk about how Germany could of steamrolled into Russia if they didn't decide to do numerous side trips to Moscow.
sullen canyon
Yeah, it's Big Brain Time
manic latch
Take me instead 
ivory ridge
manic latch
Zurge Rush Stalingrad
sullen canyon
Well.... he's not wrong about Leningrad, since what was of major import there to begin with anyways?
spring briar
even better
air supply stalingrad
like real life
manic latch
Yeah that's the problem. Germans already had number superiority on early Stalingrad
manic latch
Also Baltic Navy was there, which was one of the main reason Tirpitz were sitting on her ass for something to pop out
sullen canyon
Okay, so it was kind of a choke point
And Tirpitz got stuck in the Fjords for most of the war until Vicky found and bombed her to hell and back
manic latch
And Tirpitz got stuck in the Fjords for most of the war until Vicky found and bo...
Gangut was living hell as well
manic latch
Gangut was living hell as well
Her artillery strike map
spring briar
alpine onyx
What's your opinion on Prinz Eugen
Eugen underwent similar stages to Bismarck, first getting hyped up above where she should be, then getting hammered to something lower than she actually was. Maybe her reputation will swing back up again, and balance out in between where it belongs
cinder escarp
need a random wehrb with a very bad opinion to revive the channel
Quora is always open!
ivory ridge
Twitter is enough for me
manic latch
Eugen underwent similar stages to Bismarck, first getting hyped up above where s...
Nah I just hate her game character
delicate beacon
Eugen underwent similar stages to Bismarck, first getting hyped up above where s...
To be fair she's still overhyped in certain circles.
cinder escarp
Lower than she actually was? How could bismarck be lower than the abyssal plain?
grave ravine
Well.... he's not wrong about Leningrad, since what was of major import there to...
Its also worth noting that Leningrad was the second largest and most important city of the USSR, with all the things that entails including tons of factories and important infrastructure and crap.
Not that most of it survived the siege, but well you can't just ignore it
dapper parcel
LW can't even terror bomb a f*ing city properly, so let them precision bomb hardened target instead 
grave ravine
LW can't even terror bomb a f*ing city properly, so let them precision bomb hard...
I mean the bombing criticism is probably actually one of the fairer ones, the RAF was really stretched by the campaign against aircraft manufacturers and chain home, but because of the XX system they managed to hide from the Nazis how effective their campaign was, and they switched targets
that being said it still wouldn't have really helped them, cuz even if they do degrade the RAF significantly, Sea Lion was basically doomed to fail
subtle prawn
long swallow
Lol
maiden citrus
spring briar
strong plank
long swallow
spring briar
manic latch
spring briar
frozen kestrel
Since I'm doing historically accurate loadouts in-game, what do I put on Bismarck? (Besides that 380mm SK C/34)
manic latch
380mm, 150mm SK C/28 for secondary in gear lab, Twin 105mm C/33 AA,
frozen kestrel
Thanks
long swallow
Twin 150mm (SK C/28) makes sense
solid mango
Or you can make cursed shit like this
delicate beacon
cursed shit?
long swallow
If it’s historical lol
delicate beacon
https://github.com/YukaIzumi/AzurLaneHistoricalFitguide
Why do so many submarines have Snorkels?
long swallow
Sure
long swallow
Why do so many submarines have Snorkels?
Underwater for longer
delicate beacon
I didn't intend that manner when I posed the question
I meant that I don't recall many submarines using snorkels.
grave ravine
https://github.com/YukaIzumi/AzurLaneHistoricalFitguide
If you want to be nitpicky, neither of the radars shown for Bismarck are right, the Bismarck used the FuMo 23 rather than the FuMo 25, and obviously she didn't get the American Mk8
manic latch
Yeah they are smoking there
frozen kestrel
If you want to be nitpicky, neither of the radars shown for Bismarck are right, ...
Same with Prinz Eugen if I recall, but FuMo 23 ain't in the game yet, so pain for historical accuracy.
manic latch
Same with Prinz Eugen if I recall, but FuMo 23 ain't in the game yet, so pain fo...
Prinz should be 25
frozen kestrel
Eugen had the 25?
grave ravine
Yeah apparently from 1944 onwards she got the 25
frozen kestrel
Time to make alternating loadouts...
manic latch
Eugen had the 25?
Soviets wanted to pull her for her new radar yes
US got the pull instead
Then nuked her
frozen kestrel
Specifically to give the Soviets the middle finger
frozen kestrel
The US really did just destroy a lot of things just so the Soviets couldn't have it, didn't they?
grave ravine
I mean the US did want ships to test nukes on
manic latch
I mean the US did want ships to test nukes on
They had their own ships which they also used tho
grave ravine
and what better ship to use than the war trophies that you know you wont be using
long swallow
If you want to be nitpicky, neither of the radars shown for Bismarck are right, ...
Idk if that supposed to in a positive or negative way in the beginning
manic latch
Wonder if Prinz Museum would become Wehraboo worshipping Temple in US. Maybe one of the reason they sank it
frozen kestrel
Apparently, one of the guns from Prinz Eugen's A turret is still around
delicate beacon
Soviets wanted to pull her for her new radar yes
The Dutch wanted anything that was useable. Instead they had to buy it.
thorn trail
Apparently, one of the guns from Prinz Eugen's A turret is still around
Yeah it's beside the only 18in gun the US has iirc
delicate beacon
Wonder if Prinz Museum would become Wehraboo worshipping Temple in US. Maybe one...
There's a propeller somewhere that people go to.
grave ravine
On the topic of propellers, the propeller of the submarine that sank Lusitania in WW1
eternal veldt
Wonder if Prinz Museum would become Wehraboo worshipping Temple in US. Maybe one...
That, and simply zero need to maintain said ships in a post war economy.
If it's old, it gets scrapped or ends up as target ships.
delicate beacon
There's also the logistic train.
One reason enemy ships weren't used frequently anymore was due to a reliance on the war industry of the defeated country.
Which you obviously did not want to support.
eternal veldt
Prinz's machinery broke down once the German crew left, IIRC.
Japan is one of the odder ones, salvaging what remains of multiple vessels and commissioning them into second/frontline duty anyway.
strong plank
Wonder if Prinz Museum would become Wehraboo worshipping Temple in US. Maybe one...
Iirc the actual reason was that her engine got screwed up
manic latch
F
strong plank
Yeah what silver said
plus if you’re the US there’s not much reason to hold onto a captured enemy ship
You’re not gonna be fielding it
and if you can use a captured ship for nuclear tests, well that’s one more Baltimore or independence you can put into reserve instead of destroying
dapper parcel
Eugen's high pressure piping was manufactured from way too unsuitable alloys under US boiler standard
strong plank
There's a propeller somewhere that people go to.
The USN actually still has Eugen’s bell
dapper parcel
If there were OSHA back then, no USN sailor would operate her machinery not because of unfamiliarity, but simply because of the fucking danger
strong plank
its tucked away somewhere in the NHHC archives
at the DC naval yard
the archives have a lot of cool shit
if this were AL and you needed a piece of the original ship to make a kansen, the USN could spawn like 2 fleets just from archive stuff before having to think about excavating wrecks
hell they could probably beat Japan to Yamato
dapper parcel
Don't underestimate the power of unaccounted archive tucked under some old engineers bedside drawer in some random Japanese town
The amount of that happening is stupidly high
Everytime I see this kind of credit, I'm like... yeah, sure..
Remember when a whole investigative article in Warship 2019 piecing how exactly the curtis turbine on HMS Tiger works based on photographic evidence
and then some Japanese dude wrote a letter like "yeah I have the blueprint of that exact same turbine installed on Fuso, here's where you're wrong"
maiden citrus
hopefully evidence was gathered before believing him
autumn sorrel
How much do you want to bet, Yamato design plan still survive in some old dusty Japanese attic
subtle prawn
eternal veldt
How much do you want to bet, Yamato design plan still survive in some old dusty ...
May or may not be possible, we have a hoarder called Shizuo Fukui, the centrepiece of almost all naval literature of IJN
People are still digging stuff up from his attic
He has 3,000 classified documents in said attic when he died, and its still in the process of being sorted and compiled into a book.
cinder escarp
Soviets wanted to inspect her so US sank it
The really funny thing is that they ended up getting all of the German elektroboote data anyhow
So denying the Soviets the state of the art in IJN sub design to try to deny the Soviets sub information... was pointless.
junior trench
It was outright claimed plans for the Yamato class were found in a desk in a Nagasaki shipyard office a few years back
Of course they refuse to display them
And the news reports themselves decided to go almost completely into "lost media" territory
eternal veldt
Best bet is to approach the Yamato museum, who to my knowledge also houses Hiraga's "Warship Designs" notebook.
Someone is also selling reproduced Shinano plans online. Likely not the real thing though.
Kagero publishing PTSD
manic latch
It was outright claimed plans for the Yamato class were found in a desk in a Nag...
Irrrc Drach mentioned it but said those were the earlier plans not the finalized Yamato?
dapper parcel
Earlier plans and design reviews were already known for decades tho, unless there's more
desert agate
manic latch
I still don't get why Australia needs Himars
Aren't they bad against moving ship targets
ivory ridge
why would you think they need them just against ships
why do they have tanks if tanks are bad against ships
manic latch
I actually don't know what MBTs they use other than Abrams
ivory ridge
why would they need another MBT
spring briar
I will make a clay jet engine
chilly osprey
Aren't they bad against moving ship targets
That would depend on what they fire out of them.
Remember, HIMARS is just the launcher
There's multiple types of munitions that can be fired out them. Ex, what's being used currently in [REDACTED] is just GMLRS.
But there's also ATACMS, GLSDB, and eventually PrSM.
And Lockmart has also touted firing LRASM from HIMARS
manic latch
There's multiple types of munitions that can be fired out them. Ex, what's being...
There was a training in Asia I forget which country
They missed the sea target while using Himars
Did they used GMLRS?
tough quail
think that was the Philippines iirc
manic latch
thick timber
What's the practicality of super carriers with all the missiles and satellites now?
manic latch
What's the practicality of super carriers with all the missiles and satellites n...
Floating air base
Has planes that can fire their own individual rockets
Is more responsible than satellites during war
spring briar
orbital anti carrier strikes will be lit
manic latch
Rich
spring briar
manic latch
Did French had these moving rangefinders on warship turrets
spring briar
don't think so
but ships did have central fire control
manic latch
Object 432 (T-64)'s one of early designs
It was likely first time Soviets thought about storing crew in single capsule
shrewd pecan
What's the practicality of super carriers with all the missiles and satellites n...
It’s much harder to hit and track a airfield moving at 30+ knots than it is to track one sitting still
Carrier air defenses have greatly evolved with the advance of technology with the carriers escorts processing a wide variety of modern air defense capabilities
manic latch
Carrier air defenses have greatly evolved with the advance of technology with th...
QE: What defenses
Yeah main job of carrier defense are escorts
And it's own planes
tough quail
my beloved
shrewd pecan
~~QE: What defenses~~
The lack of mark 41 equipped escorts for QE is a downside
Since the Brit’s opted for the VLS gym over actual VLS cells on the type 45s
shrewd pecan
To actually kill a American style CSG you’d have to track it and locate it (not hard due to the amount of radar and other electronic signals involved but that’s normal for most modern militaries)
- get enough assets in one area to strike it and hope the CSG doesn’t notice
- get said assets into range
- fire off enough munitions to overwhelm the carrier air wing, air defense cruisers/destroyers, EW and other counter measures
- get enough actual missiles on the carrier to actually knock it out
manic latch
If things don't go nuclear of course
shrewd pecan
Such a strike would likely require a missile count within the hundreds
So would be logistically intensive on the attacker and likely deplete several months worth of missile production
manic latch
Chinese wargames claimed they need 24? 36? Hypersonic to defeat a CSG but wargames are unreliable
Both sides don't know how good EWs will work
shrewd pecan
Yeah but that’s several months of missile production on one target
For a type of strike that won’t be guaranteed to work
manic latch
But there is also 10 of this special target
Maybe solution is mass producing hyper to level it gets cheaper like F35
shrewd pecan
Hypersonics aren’t really economical in the first place to really justify them in insane volume
manic latch
True
shrewd pecan
There relatively easy to adapt against with a mixture of improvements in automation and space detection systems
wintry moat
my knowledge of modern warship extends to “fire missile and wait for radar contact to die”
shrewd pecan
Frankly if the CSG is able to get interceptor missiles off on the hypersonic it’s gonna shoot it down
wintry moat
Naval combat is Hide and Seek with Guns
manic latch
my knowledge of modern warship extends to “fire missile and wait for radar conta...
EW and VLS missiles made modern warships super complex
manic latch
Won't one shot, but can disable for good to force it go back home
ivory ridge
Just a reminder that passive defence is incredibly advanced even more than active defence
manic latch
MK-41
shrewd pecan
Hypersonics are something that is often overhyped
ivory ridge
check radar to find supercarrier
look inside
100 decoys
shrewd pecan
I'm not sure if US wants it or not
It’s a worthwhile capability don’t get me wrong
But people tend to over hype it
spring briar
shoot all decoys
shrewd pecan
American Khinzhal
manic latch
Testing began in 1962 and was initially marked by a string of failures. These failures, along with a lack of mission after the successful development of submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs), led to its cancellation in December 1962.[1] The UK had decided to base its entire 1960s deterrent force on Skybolt, and its cancellation led to a major disagreement between the UK and US, known today as the "Skybolt Crisis".
shrewd pecan
I still don't get why Australia needs Himars
Anyways I also wanted to point out something here
Australia’s apart of the PRSM program the missile that will end up replacing the ATACMs