history

[wintry moat]

Genuine question

[eternal veldt]

Bluecher was ferrying troops to capture Oslo

Operation Weserübung was well underway

https://youtu.be/5KgBJC4RXC4 Here's another video on the exact battle, albeit with its consequences highlighted

short is, the German troops had to land much further away from Oslo, so there was time for the gold reserve and the king to escape.

[wintry moat]

Ok

Oslo is a major city right?

[thorn trail]

Oslo is the capital yes

[eternal veldt]

This is also why Blücher's casualties are very high - the ship was crammed to the brim with invasion materials and equipment

[wintry moat]

I am not familiar with Norway

[eternal veldt]

the shots from Oscarsborg basically knocked her telegraph equipment offline, and set a massive fire on board the ship in the hangar

said fire then reached the 10.5cm magazines, and there isn't much you can do to save the ship when magazines go off

[wintry moat]

So she's on fire then torped

[eternal veldt]

the whitehead torpedoes hit the turbine and boiler rooms, would certainly harm the firefighting efforts

[wintry moat]

damn, basically the worst spot to hit

[eternal veldt]

but up to that point, the crew was hopeful that the ship could be saved, and even ordered the ship to be anchored

[thorn trail]

was there ever a time a ship survived her magazines cooking off?

[eternal veldt]

It was the out of control conflagration that basically killed her

[wintry moat]

Not that I can recall

I mean, every major ship that's had their mags go up are lost

[eternal veldt]

....Mikasa?

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/463wu2/historical_magazine_detonations_the_list/

as noted, Shaw, Marat survived

New Orleans is a bit of a (?) for me since the damage reports conclude that it was the bombs and mine magazines that exploded, not the main 8" powder magazines

(c) It is improbable that any explosion occurred in the 8" powder magazines, even after the mass detonation of bombs. Burning of smokeless powder in confined spaces will develop pressures of destructive magnitude after an interval of time, only under certain conditions of density of loading and degree of confinement. In the case of BOISE* about 3000 pounds of 6" powder burned without producing an explosion. In the case of NEW ORLEANS unburned 8" powder grains were reported to have been found on the upper decks. Some powder might have burned briefly in the magazines but if so it would have been quickly extinguished by the inrush of water. Further, if an explosion had occurred in the large powder magazines, A-408-M and A-411-M, between turrets I and II, the damage would have been even more severe than was actually the case. The bottom of the ship under these magazines was distorted but relatively intact as far forward as frame 30. The bomb magazines were just forward of this and the structure was bent sharply downward forward of frame 28, see photo 6. This alone is almost conclusive evidence that the bomb magazine was the center of the trouble.

another win for underwater powder magazines and another reason Hood's shell/powder room arrangement sucks dick

[wintry moat]

They were above the Waterline?

[manic latch]

They knew the problem

But never bother changing

[delicate beacon]

Do you know how expensive it could be to fix the problem.

[wintry moat]

really damn expensive

[manic latch]

Losing the ship is cheaper

[wintry moat]

Aren't you talking about ripping out everything on the way down

[eternal veldt]

Actually, the rest of the Admiral-class battlecruisers planned to do that

and Nelson naturally had the proper arrangement

As for Hood, really, just a matter of time and money

Other ships are in more dire needs of refits, and once war broke out, any kind of capital refit except the most urgent ones (such as battle damage) are just "lol lmao no"

[ivory ridge]

@chilly osprey next storia militare is on the Giussano and Cadornas

[chilly osprey]

Oh boy

Was waiting to see what it was

This should be interesting

[supple sandal]

This is the first time I seen anyone calling him that

Very creative

[alpine onyx]

While it sounds weird, there was a chance for a warship to literally just pass by a manned and alert fortress. During the same campaign Köln pulled a similar stunt, and sailed past a fortress actively shooting her while taking no casualties.

Several impacts in the water close to the bow " Köln ".
Several shots passed over the ship (signal deck). One between both funnels. Morse code in the direction of the battery "Stop firing, good friend, etc). Artillery fire stopped for a short time, searchlight continues to shine. By skillful behavior of the torpedo boats they succeed in advancing into the harbor at high speed without being hit. "Köln" follows, fired on again, and passes the Kwarven battery, but without being hit, likewise the torpedo battery (at the foot of the Kwarven), which is apparently not clear, in any case does not fire. Later, during the occupation, it is found that combat pistols are not inserted in the torpedoes.```

[thorn trail]

combat pistols?

[supple sandal]

Combat pistol do what?

[alpine onyx]

The fuzes in the nose of the torpedo

[supple sandal]

Oh

[alpine onyx]

That's the German text ran through deepl

[thorn trail]

Ah fuzes

[alpine onyx]

So the terminology isn't 100% on point

But it gets enough context across without me doing all the work

[supple sandal]

Kruzt

[grave ravine]

L+Ratio+get rekked nazis

Also the guns were "only" 50 years old

[wintry moat]

I thought she was not moving to combat but towards a new port farther away from American Air raids

[strong plank]

what blucher?

blucher was sunk in april of 1940

like a solid year and a half before the US joined the war

[autumn sorrel]

What do you mean? It is his nickname on this channel

[supple sandal]

[autumn sorrel]

Are you referring to her sister, Prinz Eugen?

[supple sandal]

Mcunter mhh

[wintry moat]

Shinano

[autumn sorrel]

[spring briar]

Reminder that Hood’s strategy by Holland was to close the range with Bisko so that her deck wouldn’t be hit as much

Thus putting a lot of faith into her 12” sloped belt made with 1910’s British steel

[wintry moat]

Hood honestly shouldn’t have been sent

but she had a reputation and the speed

[spring briar]

She was available

That’s the sad thing

[wintry moat]

Hood’s fall was so close to being avoided

As Wales was almost the Lead ship

[manic latch]

Imagine if Bismarck sank both if Wales become lead

Unlikely but interesting

[spring briar]

Extremely unlikely

PoW was kept at distance for a reason

Taking advantage of her deck

[tough quail]

hood was basically armored with sandpaper in comparison

[spring briar]

20 year tech gap

Hurts

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/05/05/navy-to-commission-littoral-combat-ship-uss-cooperstown

[tough quail]

it sucks that they're so shit because they actually look really cool

[spring briar]

the superstructure somehow made me think of a confederate ironclad

[grave ravine]

I like the look of the independence class better personally

[lost ravine]

It was a nice idea on paper but yeah sadly they are broken. Glad I am not going to those ships.

[supple sandal]

Going too fast
Hull crack

[tough quail]

it makes me think of like

a goofy police speedboat you'd see in cp77

[runic prairie]

Considering they actually work, that’s fair.

[grave ravine]

I mean they aren't really much better, whereas the freedom class wont move, the independence class is literally falling apart

major corrosion and hull cracking issues

[runic prairie]

Braces are easier to install than new engines.

[grave ravine]

yeah I guess, at the end of the day both aren't very good ships

[runic prairie]

LCS should’ve gone to one design and just have both companies build it.

And they should’ve been built with some actual AAW capabilities, not just RAM and planned integration with guided 57mm.

Seriously. Just put a damn stanflex module or two on it.

[grave ravine]

on that note, the MMSC variant the Saudis are buying will have 8 VLS cells to carry SM-2 or ESSM

and presumably also fix the engine issues?

[manic latch]

Surely

[runic prairie]

I mean it’s not hard to go up once you’ve hit rock bottom.

[cinder escarp]

The worst of the corrosion issues are amusingly the USN's own fault. For whatever reason, most galvanic protection was stripped from the design by the program office for cost reasons.

(As to the hull joint cracking, well... Austal did just underestimate how much flexing there would be there. But that's also pretty simple to fix by just welding in more bracing.)

[foggy oracle]

Any limitation to history discussion here?

[cinder escarp]

The neat thing about an all-aluminum ship is that the braces you weld in, are also aluminum and so weigh very little.

[foggy oracle]

Aka, which line not to cross

[cinder escarp]

stay away from modern politics, but otherwise it's quite open.

[foggy oracle]

Hm

This might be interesting

The german blitzkrieg tactics were flawless

[manic latch]

[foggy oracle]

Until the later stages of the war

While the soviets used an tactic of meatgrinder, aka, mass assault doctrine

hoi4 moment

[manic latch]

Uhhh no

[foggy oracle]

Hm

[delicate beacon]

[manic latch]

It was this when possible
 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_operation

[foggy oracle]

Hm

[grave ravine]

I mean thats just wrong, while soviet battlefield tactics tended to be rudimentary early in the war because of C&C issues, their operational planning was generally not bad

[foggy oracle]

Hmm.

[grave ravine]

Blitzkreig is an operational theory, not a tactical one

[foggy oracle]

Okay

[cinder escarp]

The more shitposty way of putting this is...

[manic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/zhukov-gif-20082782

[grave ravine]

Like I mean firstly we have to clarify what we are talking about, is it unit tactics or operational thought

[cinder escarp]

I once had a version photoshopped with Rokossovsky there instead - Bagration was his masterwork.

[grave ravine]

The Germans certainly did have better unit tactics than the Soviets through most of the war, because Soviet training was more rushed generally, with a greater emphasis on mass

this is not the same thing as just chucking troops into the meatgrinder, as the actual deployment of forces was generally intelligent, although mistakes were made from time to time (especially early in the war)

[cinder escarp]

A good example would be in artillery: soviets generally stuck to pre-planned mass artillery salvoes. The battery already knows where the next barrage is going to go, and the whole thing keeps on rolling.

[manic latch]

Great purge + surprise attack + lack of training + rushed production was the worst yeah

But good difference was between 1939-1941 Red Army got x2 larger

[grave ravine]

I mean the purge mostly affected their poor showing operationally, rather than their tactics

The Soviet way of war always accepted that mass at the battlefield was the ultimate decider of victory, and both their strategic and operational thought was centered around that

[cinder escarp]

The other big issue in the early years was that the Soviets were in the middle of a rearmament and reorganization program. So you would see units running a total mixed bag of stuff, or units that just got their vehicles replaced but hadn't trained yet...

[grave ravine]

They built their armies so that they would have mass, and their operational doctrine was to apply as much mass to as small of a point, to achieve decisive breakthroughs

[foggy oracle]

Well, I'll grab a tea

Have a fun one lads

[manic latch]

The doctrine pursued by the Soviets was offensively oriented. Tukhachevsky's neglect of defense pushed the Red Army toward the decisive battle and cult of the offensive mentality, which along with other events, caused enormous problems in 1941

[cinder escarp]

There was at least one T-34 unit that had gotten their new tanks but not ammo or fuel.

I have to go see which one that was.

[grave ravine]

Supply was generally problematic for both sides

[manic latch]

Hell T-34 was a prototype itself. Real desire was the much better T-34M which didn't happened also because of war

[delicate beacon]

tbf the US logistics could wound up the same in 1941/42

[grave ravine]

The Soviets had a major issue with last mile until fairly late in the war, while the Germans just didn't have enough of many critical things

[cinder escarp]

It would have, yes. Getting caught in the middle of a rebuild is always chaos.

[manic latch]

US is damn lucky they aren't getting invaded or bombed by land however

[grave ravine]

I mean the US fixed it a lot faster, because the core issue for both countries was mostly along the lines of not enough trucks for the army size

And the US just built a lot more trucks faster

[cinder escarp]

There were several T-34Ms, and what amuses me is how they wanted the semi-coaxial flamethrower on so many of them.

[grave ravine]

People talk as if the Soviets and US were equals in their industrial capacity, but the US just flat out dwarfs them in reality

[manic latch]

Some Shermans also got those for Japan campaign

[grave ravine]

Most Shermans with flamethrowers either had them replace the main gun or fire through the bow machine gun port

[delicate beacon]

The US had the safety to set up their industry of scale. But in the early war when the transition was being made lend lease was often imcomplete

[grave ravine]

I mean the US military and government had also invested a lot in making sure industry could ramp up quickly, and the US just had a really large industrial base

and US war planners knew no one would actually be able to strike at said base

[cinder escarp]

Yeah, the US has a preference for mounting flamers in a dummy main gun tube - or as a hull mount. Soviets were interesting in their use of semi-coaxial turret mounts.

Pretty much all soviet flame tanks had a working main gun.

[grave ravine]

But like unless you are counting before the US entered the war, US production ramped up incredibly quick in WW2

[cinder escarp]

Here it is on TO-55, for example.

[grave ravine]

Like the US made more tanks in 1942 than in 1944

[cinder escarp]

Main gun is fully functional, although less rounds are carried due to needing to carry flamer fuel.

US tank production peaked late '42/early '43 ('42 if going strictly by years)

[manic latch]

As Sang said. US factories were also safe from bombings and didn't worry about relocating the whole foundations with people

[cinder escarp]

The force that landed in Normandy was all manufactured by early-mid '43.

This is the reality of training time needs and the absurdly titanic supply line distance we had to manage.

It's basically the only major war in history with truly intercontinental supply chains.

[grave ravine]

Sure, but even after the Soviets got everything sorted out the US still dwarfed them in production of most war goods

[delicate beacon]

What about number of soldiers.

[humble mulch]

Omw to steal Zis-3s for Romanian tank development

[cinder escarp]

(Yes, WW1 and some of the colonial wars were continents away from their home base - but a lot of stuff was still made locally instead. It just wasn't practical to ship all guns and ammo from say the UK to India.)

Soviets did put more boots on ground and did the bulk of the land fighting. Heck, the Brits had more soldiers than us in the US did.

[grave ravine]

The US actually mobilized a similar number of troops, but most didn't make it to the front line

[cinder escarp]

The principle contribution of the US to the war, was in industry.

[manic latch]

Doesn't British has less soldier deaths than US tho

[humble mulch]

US pushed Japan

[cinder escarp]

In total, no. In normandy, probably.

[grave ravine]

The US took training at a far more leisurely pace (because they could), and also US forces had a far lower tooth to tail ratio

[cinder escarp]

And the active front we were in, Japan, as mentioned - wasn't one that needed huge numbers of ground infantry. It needed huge numbers of ships and planes.

AFV production was actually scaled back in the US to provide more steel for shipbuilding programs.

[delicate beacon]

The problem with US production was not their end output but their startup. Their Bofors gun production for instance was numerous times at risk of serious setback simply because on piece of the enormous logistic train that had to be setup was not up to schedule.

[grave ravine]

I mean the US also did the lions share of beating Japan, as well as being a major player in the strategic bombing campaign against Germany, and its not like the North African campaign, Italy, and France were insignificant either

[cinder escarp]

(The original plan was for ~120,000 Shermans)

[manic latch]

Oh damn UK was 100k more than US

[grave ravine]

I mean we had plenty of production of other not as good AA guns in the interim

and even said not as good guns were still better than what most other countries were fielding

[cinder escarp]

The big reason it took so long to get the bofors into service is the originals and british were basically hand made.

Lots of "file to fit" instructions.

[delicate beacon]

[manic latch]

Chicago Piano?

[cinder escarp]

(Note, this is also why the US didn't ask the soviets for a license to produce the ShVAK in '41 despite the autocannon troubles we were having)

As Chinn recounts, the US delegates were very impressed by it but were horrified at the manufacturing process.

[manic latch]

Really worth choosing Hispano over?

[grave ravine]

What, the US made like 100,000 Oerlikons, mostly in 1942, and the Chicago Piano was also made in not insignificant numbers

And like a Chicago Piano is still an equal to the Japanese 25mm gun

[cinder escarp]

The hispano could be quite well industrially made, and they were still optimistic about the ability to get it beaten into good shape.

[delicate beacon]

Yes. That's what I'm saying. European industry was more craftsmanship focused and could produce anything decently. The US could master the production but they need serious effort to set up everything.

[grave ravine]

Obviously bofors blows either of those out of the water, but like US bofors + RPC and director control blows everything out of the water

[grave ravine]

I mean they had set up a lot of it before the war, the rampup time only looks bad if you count the time before the US entered ww2

The army did shitloads of familiarization contracts and the like

[delicate beacon]

Oerlikons made in 1942 doesn't sound like an interim in 1941.

[grave ravine]

The US didn't enter the war until very late in 1941, so our production in most of 1941 was quite low

[cinder escarp]

The chicago piano also wasn't as bad as commonly made out to be. The early issues were just teething problems, and they eventually proved pretty good (albeit not nearly as good as the Bofors or Pom-Pom stacks).

It would be an upgrade to replace the IJN 25x3 mount with the revised Chicago Piano.

[humble mulch]

The idea of file to fit parts when going into a war is like it’s own series of issues in manufacturing and output

[grave ravine]

The US was able to avoid large lead times for many crucial items by just paying companies to know how to make items in the event of war

So anything that was developed before like mid-1941 saw production ramp up immediately

[delicate beacon]

Also, funny thing about the pompom. On of the reason the US didn't go for it was because the coordite was not easily produced in the US and they couldn't substitute it. So any plan to mass produce it fell in the water.

[cinder escarp]

The pom-pom did however, did do well in the trials and was the second option in case bofors fell through.

[manic latch]

Still amazes me how horrible 25mm was and how Ijn was bearing with it.

As Phoenix? Said before you have a gun with fire rate of bofors but hitting power closer to that of 20mm

[grave ravine]

And also worse traverse than either

[manic latch]

They really should have done a 37-45mm

Imagine New Jersey with only twin Oerlikons

[cinder escarp]

They did end up building a truly excellent DP gun in the IJN, but couldn't make enough of them to make that much of a dent.

[grave ravine]

Plus only a few of the IJN 25s had director control

[humble mulch]

Yeah came far to late sadly

[grave ravine]

I mean I wouldn't say sadly

[manic latch]

Shit fire rate
Shit traverse
Shit aiming device

Shit magazine

[humble mulch]

Duck guns were incredibly cool

[delicate beacon]

I still haven't found a single positive source on the pompom in Dutch literature.

[humble mulch]

They also iirc only had AA rounds lol

[grave ravine]

no director control except on a few of the later triples

[humble mulch]

Yeah the triple 25mm mounts with the domes

[delicate beacon]

Shame we never got the Dutch DP 12cms

[grave ravine]

Meanwhile the US has tachymetric FCS on the bofors guns

I mean what really made the 5"/38 so good at well everything was the quality of US gun directors and fire control computers

they were easily the best in the world

[delicate beacon]

US and Netherlands, the only two countries exporting tachymetric fc.

[delicate beacon]

Shame most of the early 5"/38 shells game with defective fuzes.

[manic latch]

Weight*

[delicate beacon]

Either the 1941 or models thereafter finaly fixed the problem

[manic latch]

It was light enough to be put on most ships and being light make gun control much easier

[grave ravine]

the Dutch Hazemeyer mounts had advantages and disadvantages, the mount was incredibly advanced with tri axis stab and a self contained radar and FCS, but they were incredibly heavy for a dual bofors mount and were quite unreliable

[delicate beacon]

"unreliable"

[grave ravine]

at the end of the day you are often better with centralized director control rather than each mount having its own local FCS

[delicate beacon]

Also not all had self contained fcs. Thats only the Mk IV and No. 4

[grave ravine]

Im fairly certain the Dutch ones still had integral FCS, just not radar guided

[manic latch]

@humble mulch When this girl has best AA Japan in paper could have offered

Guns: 127 mm/50 Type 5. Was planned to be DP guns for ships. Replacing the older 127mm. Only 1 gun was build

AA: 40 mm/60 Type 5. Reverse engineered model of a captured Bofors irrc

[delicate beacon]

That's what I said. The No. 4 comes with the advanced independent fcs.
The No. 3 still was reliant on external direction for effective performance.

[humble mulch]

Lol yeah I’ve seen that one

[manic latch]

Yamagiri also use those

Super Shima

I really love Shima

[grave ravine]

I mean Japan only had single bofors mounts without RPC and director control AFAIK, and they also had real reliability issues

[manic latch]

I think Soviet way was best

[manic latch]

This gun was a navalized version of the Army 37 mm 61-K, which was derived from the 45 mm 49-K, which was itself derived from the Bofors 25 mm (1") Model 1933

[grave ravine]

They were designed with integral FCS, they just didn't have access to the radar tech for as high speed and quality rangefinding

They still had the analog computer

[manic latch]

So they literally create their own 40mm Bofors by following legacy of 25mm

[delicate beacon]

........

[grave ravine]

And used a stereoscopic rangefinder instead of a radar one

Like the rangefinding wasn't as good, but it had integral FCS

[delicate beacon]

You're not listening at all are you.

[manic latch]

[grave ravine]

The hazemeyer mounts aren't designed to receive external direction, the analog FCS is mounted directly on the gun

The brits just fitted the guns with better rangefinders

[delicate beacon]

Do you have any idea what those rangefinders on De Ruyter and post refit Java are for.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1654572183761588224

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

In the late 1990s, General Dynamics Land Systems came up with an interesting concept named the Abrams Lightweight Variant Tank, which provided an air transportable MBT at significant weight reduction. For simplicity purposes, the concept tank will be referred to below as ALVT.

Likes

323

Twitter · May 5, 2023, 7:42 PM

[runic prairie]

Some interesting stuff I found

[autumn sorrel]

Lol, I miss the whole US manufacturing thing bc of sleep

[runic prairie]

You know what

LCS’ your Arleigh Burke

[ivory ridge]

[runic prairie]

Y’all couldn’t behave.

https://nps.edu/documents/103424733/107333295/April+27+2006+History+of+Modular+Payload+ships.pdf/2cbd1d66-76c8-4a57-9e52-e5fc9df1ca2d

It’s actually an interesting read.

[autumn sorrel]

Modular concept is great, what bad about LCS is how overblown and suck the program is

[runic prairie]

True

[dapper parcel]

Is that supposed to be 8in gun in lieu of VLS farm?

[runic prairie]

I think so.

[autumn sorrel]

What are the fixed wing aircraft in the concept art?

[thorn trail]

8in? Doesn't the Burke use 5in?

[manic latch]

Back gun option is likely this 8 inch

[manic latch]

Mighty F-14B is coming for WT so should talk about her

The F-14 received its first of many major upgrades in March 1987 with the F-14A Plus (or F-14A+). The F-14A's TF30 engine was replaced with the improved F110-GE-400 engine. The F-14A+ also received the state-of-the-art ALR-67 Radar Homing and Warning (RHAW) system. Many of the avionics components, as well as the AWG-9 radar, were retained. The F-14A+ was later redesignated F-14B on 1 May 1991. A total of 38 new aircraft were manufactured and 43 F-14A were upgraded into B variants

The F-14B Tomcat is sometimes called the “Bombcat” since it was the first fighter of the series, which could be equipped first with conventional, and then with other types of aircraft bombs.

[shrewd pecan]

IM TOMCATTING!

Anyways in honor of this news

And for its armament

[dapper parcel]

F-14 sure got lots of reps for a bombtruck

[shrewd pecan]

Gods most expensive multirole bomb truck

[gloomy current]

Meanwhile me still waiting for the Aardvark

[desert agate]

Since the Swiss Hunter went in the German tree, the UK clearly deserves Australian F-111s

[chilly osprey]

inb4 after a certain BR Australian kit ends up in the US tree

[desert agate]

Aussie Abram's is already in the US tree

I wonder what tree they'll put ASLAV in

[shrewd pecan]

hard to say

its too similar to the LAV-25

and the LAV-III would probably be a better addition for the brits if they get to the LAVs

[unborn wyvern]

Military advertisements go hard

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/live/4HhbmD5A3KI

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1654803439400939520

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Proceedings Photo of the Week: A Republic of Korea Air Force F-15K Slam Eagle aircraft with the 102 Fighter Squadron Daegu, 11 Fighter Wing, takes off from Gwangju Air Base, Republic of Korea. 19 April. U.S. Marine Corps (Cpl. Tyler Harmon)

Likes

102

Twitter · May 6, 2023, 11:00 AM

[tough quail]

you can slam my eagle

[chilly osprey]

Oh hey she's one of the ones who had an unfortunate encounter with a Gabbiano

"Why do I hear sonar pings but no engines?"

camera moves up to the surface to show a Gabbiano-class corvette running silent on batteries

[runic prairie]

I believe that is the Grumman 698 VTOL concept, which was to give smaller ships a longer range jammer, point air-defense, and general utility aircraft.

Just looking at some Catholics.

[runic prairie]

Exactly like that 8inch. They wanted to put that thing on a lot of ships.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/USFleetForces/status/1654871268607369216

U.S. Fleet Forces (@USFleetForces)

Welcome to the fleet, USS Cooperstown!

USS Cooperstown is a littoral combat ship capable of supporting forward presence, maritime security, sea control, and deterrence.

▶ Play video

Twitter · May 6, 2023, 3:30 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1655005437245177857

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1937, the Hindenburg burst into flames as it attempted to dock at NAS Lakehurst. 36 people perished in the disaster. The leader of the Navy landing party, CPO “Bull” Tobin, had survived the crash of USS Shenandoah and led sailors in the rescue of the Hindenburg's survivors.

Twitter · May 7, 2023, 12:23 AM

[weak spoke]

I like learning more about the pacific then Europe

[eternal veldt]

There are many theatres of operation, if you meant WW2.

[tough quail]

yeah name two of them then nerd

[eternal veldt]

CBIO, ETO, PTO, MTO?

I guess it falls under the two primary theatres, but it feels distinct enough.

[dull light]

Did Mexico have any involvement navy wise in ww2

[strong plank]

“So you like ww2? Name every battle”

[autumn sorrel]

They have a navy?

[deep apex]

It's a very very small one

And Mexican navy consisted mainly of small gunboats

[dusty kraken]

"You like ww2 US Navy? Name every US destroyer built during the war"

[dapper parcel]

Dude...

[runic prairie]

I realize now he wanted only the ones built during the war

Not all of them

[maiden citrus]

[runic prairie]

Thanks Maka

[maiden citrus]

the type of lists we enjoy

[runic prairie]

I shouldn’t drink and Discord.

I’m calling it a night.

[supple sandal]

You should order them in hull number bruv

[alpine onyx]

Name every German mine warfare vessel of WW2

[dusty kraken]

oh feck

[eternal veldt]

Now name every Liberty Ship

And Victory ship

[spring briar]

@delicate beacon

[remote monolith]

oh you like WW2? Name every single soldier who fought in it, their father's names, and their complete address

[dusty kraken]

And their descendents

[hybrid sparrow]

Now I'm not a history mod but.... Spam is spam

So please don't do that. Even if its a flex or whatever

[manic latch]

[thorn trail]

So why did Truman's first Secretary of Defense hate the Navy and Marines so much

or rather why did Louis Johnson and Truman hate the Navy and Marines

Because it seems like the post-WW2 drawdown hit the Navy hard

[shrewd pecan]

Shifting strategic priorities

Navy already had a massive fleet with plenty of post WW2 hulls to work with vs the USAF which needed the new airframes and budget to keep pace with the rapid development of aircraft and nuclear weapons

[shrewd pecan]

Finland really be making both the best AK and best AR

[spring briar]

beautiful

[solid mango]

Sad Diego

[delicate beacon]

interesting

pocket pocketbattleship

[autumn sorrel]

I don't speak dutch

[tough quail]

skill issue

[delicate beacon]

Let go of the faux Latin. Reduce the amount of French in your vocabulary and start pronouncing words and vowels correctly.

[runic prairie]

1984

[hybrid sparrow]

Indeed. Good book. You should read it

[autumn sorrel]

Spam, I love Spam

One of the best thing ever coming out of America

[remote monolith]

LOVELY SPAAAAAAAAAM, WONDERFUL SPAAAAM

[grave ravine]

San Diego had 15 battle stars, not 18

[autumn sorrel]

Grilled Spam for me

[runic prairie]

Hawaii

[desert agate]

fun fact that monty python sketch is the reason why we call things such as the aforementioned example, 'spam'

[desert agate]

actually 1970s Brits being nostalgic for 1940s Britain

[autumn sorrel]

I have to go to Spamarama once in my life time

Never have the chance but I love Spam

[desert agate]

tfw too young to ever get to watch monty python live

[shrewd pecan]

spam truly my states worse export

[desert agate]

spam is great

[autumn sorrel]

Why? It was awesome

[desert agate]

unless its in a discord channel

[remote monolith]

missed the chance back in 2014

the last great reunion

[desert agate]

i was 12 in 2014 and didnt really know who they were

[runic prairie]

Skill issue

[grave ravine]

IDK spam musubi was surprisingly good

[autumn sorrel]

Spoon is younger than me?

[grave ravine]

same here except I was like 10 lol

[desert agate]

2002 baby

[autumn sorrel]

I thought Spoon was 30 something

[desert agate]

lmao what

nah i turned 21 just recently

[autumn sorrel]

Enjoy the 21 year, best year in a life time

No need to worry about anything and so full of hope

[desert agate]

lol

lmao even

[runic prairie]

I wish it was.

[solid mango]

Whar

[grave ravine]

Navy historical center lists it as having 15 battle stars, and actually bothers to list each campaign it got a star for

San Diego museum claims 18, but I know who I trust more

[solid mango]

Damn

[grave ravine]

San Diego is actually like number 15 on most decorated US warships of WW2 list

[solid mango]

I have actually never visited SD's NHHC site, dis quite the revelation

[manic latch]

How do you get these stars

[grave ravine]

Battle stars are awarded similarly to battle honours in the RN, basically for participating meaningfully in an action or campaign

[manic latch]

US navy fans after I bite their ship

[runic prairie]

Munchy crunchy

[manic latch]

[grave ravine]

O'Bannon after Vella Lavella

suffered no casualties

[spring briar]

k

[runic prairie]

Looks like a Forest Sherman

[spring briar]

it is

[runic prairie]

What sinkex is it?

[spring briar]

dunno

[runic prairie]

Tu-95 with three KH-22 missiles

NATO reporting name: AS-4 Kitchen

[manic latch]

Prefer Tu-22M but 95 is big girl

[runic prairie]

I can’t say I’d like to be that pilot

Seems a bit too suicidal

Here’s a couple with the KH-80

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

Chilled nose parrot shell krem

[tough quail]

horrifying

[spring briar]

smh

10 inch parrot shell

terrifying

they used these to make ironclads bugger off

[tough quail]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1655281236129054723

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1945, the majority of the crew of HMCS Uganda indicated in a poll that they did not intend to continue participating in operations against Japan after the Canadian government announced that only volunteers would be deployed in the Pacific. The ship had to return to Canada.

Twitter · May 7, 2023, 6:39 PM

[runic prairie]

Don’t want to deal with Kamikazes? Just say no.

[ivory ridge]

Why does this bug only happens with hit

Sometimes i see maka with her account pfp instead of the server one but then it updates

Hit's just stays like this

[desert agate]

lmfao what

i havent updated my pfp or server pfp

certified discord moment

[ivory ridge]

my beloved

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/651823796453638144/1036911307661787156/uncaption.gif

[ivory ridge]

Hilarious how that pic is like over a year old and we still dont have an italian supership ingame

[delicate beacon]

I wonder why we didn't get Alte Grau with DARDO for wows

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/el-risitas-juan-joya-borja-ratones-coloraos-laugh-meme-laughing-man-gif-24899295

[ivory ridge]

what u laughin at

[thorn trail]

Stupid theoretical "time travel" question but would a C-130, C-17 or C-5 be more impactful if we send 10 of one type to the Berlin Airlift

[spring briar]

the fact that there are middle eastern countries on there
and then the UK, US etc
basically italy is selling arms to both parties

truly salesman attitude

[thorn trail]

Yadda yadda assume maintenance and whatever is taken care of

Logistical wise, which of those 3 would be more impactful

[ivory ridge]

Is this better or worse than france selling their MBTs to the middle east

[spring briar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/651823796453638144/1036911307661787156/uncaption.gif

[ivory ridge]

actually none of the Iraqi ones are tanks but still

recovery vehicle, Anti air, Artillery

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[runic prairie]

C-17 would probably be best since it would be able to operate from Tempelhof with far less trouble than a C-5.

They’d be each be able to carry 77 tons.

From Wiesbaden to Berlin at cruise speed is about 30-40 minutes.

Unloading time takes 20 minutes

If you’re fast

Loading probably takes around 30 minutes.

Refueling is done at Wiesbaden (you might be able to use the tanks to transport extra fuel for the city) at the same time.

[shrewd pecan]

globemaster supremacy

[runic prairie]

Assuming other delays, checks, etc, total time for a round trip could be as little as 2-2.5 hours, assuming ground crews are up to it.

Using the plan for 6 hour blocks as seen in the Berlin airlift, each crew makes two trips then makes 1-2 hours for checks. Then the next crew takes over.

I’m seeing they got C-54 loading/unloading down to 10/5 minutes respectively. But that’s for 10 tons of equipment.

Assuming night vision equipment we’ll have four flights per aircraft in the day and three at night.

Seven flights per day/C-17

7•77•10 = 5390 tons of cargo each day.

Requirement was for ~5000 tons/day.

So it would be possible to do the Berlin airlift with 10 C-17s.

@thorn trail

[thorn trail]

Does that take into acct that most of the cargo is bulk cargo aka coal that's not that dense and hence you might not reach the 77 tons of the C-17

[runic prairie]

Just depends on how they load it.

[thorn trail]

Afaik the C-141 suffered from that as well. Where the cargo volume was filled out before the MTOW was reached

[runic prairie]

Coal is about 1 ton/m^3

A 463L pallet is 2.1x2.6 meters with an undetermined height but max weight capacity of 4500kg

So it wouldn’t be hard to do that.

C-17 carries 18 of them

So 81 tons max

But max takeoff is 77 tons so pallets aren’t the constraint.

[thorn trail]

Still think 77 tons is way too high since coal is more realistically 1.4tons per cubic meter

[runic prairie]

That would make it better

C-17s have a lot of volume.

[thorn trail]

Wait hold on let me check again

Hmm

Sources say it varies from 700kg to 1400kg per cubic meter

Hmm actually it is possible

[runic prairie]

Bulk density drops to 0.8-0.9 ton/m^3

But volume really isn’t an issue as there’s lots of vertical space.

And pallets could be >1 meter high.

[thorn trail]

That would increase unloading times would it?

[runic prairie]

Maybe

It just depends

They’d have a lot of practice

And it could probably be very fast.

[thorn trail]

How about how many C-130s it would take

[runic prairie]

Idk

Probably like 20-25

It just depends

[thorn trail]

Would the C17 be realistically the largest plane that we could send back in time to the berlin airlift

[runic prairie]

Yeah

And even then it’s probably a close-run thing for operating out of Tempelhof.

[thorn trail]

Hmm. Wonder if the An-22 would work better

Afaik that should be slightly larger than the c17

Yeah 77 vs 80 tons

And the An-22 should be slightly better at short runway operations afaik

[runic prairie]

Yeah An-22 is notably better.

[tough quail]

france literally seconds after the cold war ends: hello russia

would you like some of our everything

[spring briar]

Truly?

[tough quail]

ye

hell they even poked fun at france's arms dealing by giving the fake migs in top gun exocets lmfao

[delicate beacon]

Have you seen Dutch arms dealings though.

Cold war: ends
Dutch: sells their entire tank force and most of their artillery.

[grave ravine]

same with Germany, like everyone got Leo 2s when the Great German Tank Fire Sale Happened

[delicate beacon]

No. Germany still owns tanks. The Dutch dropped from 900+ to literally zero.

[subtle prawn]

There's a binational tank unit, no?

[dapper parcel]

C-17 require 8500 ft runway at MTOW

Idk about An-22 performance charts but I don't think it would be that much different. Still 6000+ ft for sure

I'm assuming Tempelhof to be the baseline performance needed

Largest STOL cargo plane that could realistically operate there would be about A400 or An-70 size

Unless we're resorting to water injection or something

[runic prairie]

Taking off from Tempelhof would be empty basically.

[grave ravine]

The dutch still have a few tanks in their joint German-Dutch tank unit

[delicate beacon]

Yeah we're leasing 18 tanks for a joint unit. But we only started doing this after selling all our tanks.

[dapper parcel]

C-17 landing at max payload with enough fuel for diversion is exactly 6000 ft

Can be 3000 ft if you use that bonkers thurst reverser on short final maneuver

Full flap, 5 degree slope

You know what, An-124 can do that too if you use similarly noncredible maneuver.

It IS supposed to be STOL

[grave ravine]

Ah, well at least y'all are doing it now

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/DocStrangelove2/status/1655211381329625093

Doc Strangelove (@DocStrangelove2)

These look like they were made with genuine malice.

Likes

18556

Retweets

1152

Twitter · May 7, 2023, 2:02 PM

[autumn sorrel]

Very cursed

[dapper parcel]

That AR one is just fancy furnitures tho. The bolt action on the other hand...

[dusty kraken]

Gun on the right is definitely from Mad Max

[gloomy current]

the AR guy was based enough to get rid of the forward assist, but not based enough to get a receiver without one by default

[ivory ridge]

Italy wasnt that better before 2014 tbh

the Centauro trials fell through but even during current events we can see italian derived vehicles like the Lince

now on both sides

lol

[tough quail]

that's more my point tbf

they both did it

[ivory ridge]

yeah

looks at the Egyptian Mistral class LHD

[tough quail]

isn't the US trying to dump the lcs' on Egypt too or am I remembering the wrong country

[cinder escarp]

Currently, the Saudis are buying a customized, clean build version of the Freedoms.

It was a bold choice.

[tough quail]

...

[ivory ridge]

Freedom and not independence?

uh

[tough quail]

Why

Is this where the fucking Nikke money is going???

[ivory ridge]

idk why i find this name funny

[manic latch]

As Sarc said 4 special variant is under construction for Saudi

[ivory ridge]

Fincantieri marinette marine be like

[strong plank]

Horse it’s brilliant

USN suffers through the LCS program
China sees this and copies begins their own program
the saudis spend money to get their own

cost imposition strategy successful

[cinder escarp]

Multi-Mission Surface Combatant

[strong plank]

Also I love that the PLAN has a higher opinion of the LCS’ than the USN

[cinder escarp]

(They really don't - that one thing shown in the presentation was just an export proposal at one of the conferences. It doesn't exist outside of the model.)

For littoral warfare, they have the very conventional 054A and upcoming 054B FFGs.

[strong plank]

https://news.usni.org/2021/08/11/chinese-see-u-s-littoral-combat-ship-as-powerful-tool-in-future-distributed-conflicts

[cinder escarp]

Weird thing is there, they don't cite the paper they quote and I can't find it.

And doing searches for the supposed title gives nothing but links back to that piece.

[strong plank]

they do say 'reviewed by USNI News' so I imagine they were given access to it

I'm not too surprised that a Chinese Government paper about assessing USN capabilities isn't on google

[cinder escarp]

It's just without the original source it's hard to tell what's lost in translation, or the context. E.g. they could have been talking about the concept of the LCS armed with missiles and not the platforms as delivered.

[shrewd pecan]

I’m not gonna lie if they just brought back the dedicated ASROC launchers for the LCSs and actually made the god damn minewarfare module they’d probably be a actually useful asset

Gods greatest anti submarine platform

[autumn sorrel]

How good is Sub Brief as a source?

[chilly osprey]

Very poor

He's wrong quite a lot, but uses his former service as a status of authority that he really does not have.

[manic latch]

@spring briar Le Malin

Le Malin will be presented in the latest configuration after the upgrade in Boston in 1943. The originally poor anti-aircraft armament, which they tried to strengthen in each of the five ship upgrades, finally turned out to be quite effective, including two twin-barreled and one quad mount of the 40mm Bofors autocannons and 10 20mm Oerlikons. During the same upgrade in Boston, the ship received two additional mortars for 100-kg depth charges, bringing their total number to four. But the torpedo armament had to be reduced, abandoning one of the three triple-tube launchers.

[spring briar]

I hope it is good at killing DD’s in wt

[void raptor]

Does anyone know if the US had any 20 inch naval guns or just experimented with them

[thorn trail]

afaik nobody actually had 20in guns

18in was the max someone ever used or even experimented with

for the US it would be the 457mm that we have in Azur Lane

[void raptor]

Ok thx

[runic prairie]

Just find space for a tactical length VLS.

It would weigh less, be less resource intensive, and not need a complete redesign.

I know the Independences have space for a VLS unit in the bow aft of the 57mm that wasn’t used because of weight.

[spring briar]

The US had no 20 inch guns, but they did bore out a 16” barrel to 610mm for firing tests with large projectiles for the atlas missile program

The Japanese built and tested 480mm guns and partially built but didn’t test 510 mm guns

Japan also had 18.1” guns on the yammys

[void raptor]

Just wondering cuz a US 20 inch guns with there AP and there range finders and firing computer would be soo cracked

Irl in AL and in WOWs

[spring briar]

A 20 inch gun would always be cracked

[shrewd pecan]

anything above a 18 inch doesn't really seem particularly worth it

[void raptor]

Yeah handling and reloading seems way to much of a hassle

[shrewd pecan]

throw in weight and less overall ammo capacity

[strong plank]

Now if they could find a way to autoload the 16” mk7…

[void raptor]

USA USA USA

I’m pretty sure the crew of the Wisconsin were so good at reloading that they once did it under 30 seconds

[manic latch]

Only Lion's late variants and Soviet Project 24 had autloader designs for their 16 inch irrc

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1655571607073505280

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1942, USS Lexington (CV-2) was scuttled after being crippled by Japanese torpedoes and bombs during the Battle of the Coral Sea. After slipping beneath the waves, the carrier would not been seen again until March 2018 when the wreck was located by Paul Allen's team.

Likes

114

Twitter · May 8, 2023, 1:53 PM

[spring briar]

Thats run of the mill average

[ivory ridge]

https://twitter.com/SaltyFrenchBoi/status/1655560262739546113

Salty_French_Boi (@SaltyFrenchBoi)

I hate the internet

Likes

1238

Twitter · May 8, 2023, 1:08 PM

i cant post my reaction or i would get warned

[manic latch]

Mega based

[ivory ridge]

im pretty sure you can get warned for that

[shrewd pecan]

that would require admitting they know where it came from

[ivory ridge]

i already got warned for a similar sentence

[shrewd pecan]

also considering my past couple of warnings its gonna arbitrary at best

still mad over the warning I got for posting a video describing the history of these people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science

anyway I'll remove the comment

[thorn trail]

@delicate beacon Do you have the list of ships that are possible PR6 candidates

[delicate beacon]

Not me. But hold on.

#al-lore message

[thorn trail]

Thanks

[ivory ridge]

[delicate beacon]

Wait you're.... why?

[ivory ridge]

you know when that mod joined the channel and complained about off topic

they didnt like my response

[delicate beacon]

[grave ravine]

20in would be worth it in the hypothetical scenario where it has gotten to the point where everyone has 60-70k ton battleships armed and armored against 18in gunfire, but until then not really

[manic latch]

Damn

[shrewd pecan]

I mean at that point assuming post WW2 scenario

you might as well just start flinging the nuclear shells

[manic latch]

Bigga gun = more range and damage for nuke

[grave ravine]

I mean this is only really possible IMO in a no-WNT scenario

where everyone is building 16s in the 20s

and goes to 18s in the 30s

and then a couple people build 20in super battleships right before or during ww2

they would basically be Yamato equivalents, but up a notch

[shrewd pecan]

fair

tho even then I don't really think people would be going too insane with their designs considering post WW1 economic considerations

[grave ravine]

Also are these AMRAAMS

[shrewd pecan]

since basically everyone but the US would be broke

[shrewd pecan]

I have no idea

[grave ravine]

I mean yeah thats why WNT came around

[shrewd pecan]

I think there sparrows but I have no idea how that thing would be able to guide either sparrows or AMRAAMs

[grave ravine]

but you know if people really wanted to do it, they would find a way

OK I think you are right about them being sparrows

Which begs the question, what radar is guiding them

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparoair

I don't think its a sparoair

tho I'm wondering if its some sparrow development being tested

[runic prairie]

Use RAPs

[runic prairie]

Early sparrows started delopment in late 1940s.

1950

[grave ravine]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/hv9sot/helio_au24_stallion_light_gunship_and/

What reddit had to say about it

they are claiming that it was just a mockup for show

[runic prairie]

Old beam riding version

[grave ravine]

The plane its mounted on isn't old enough to be part of sparrow development

[runic prairie]

They used Hellcats, Skyraiders, and eventually several jets for development.

[shrewd pecan]

ah

tho I suppose you could just develop a radar pod for guidance

similar to the AIM-152's proposal

[runic prairie]

Yeah. It was a beam-rider so pretty basic.

Earliest photo I’ve seen of a sidewinder.

I’ve seen it dated as 1949 but more reliable sources say 1950.

Test fired later that year.

[runic prairie]

Mounted on a skyraider

-1951

[runic prairie]

Kinda.

A big part of the GD/W proposal was for the illuminator to also be rear-facing.

As the missile didn’t have an Active radar seeker while the H/R proposal did.

The IIR seeker was mainly a backup but did offer autonomous terminal homing.

[runic prairie]

This allows the F-14 (or other aircraft) to run away after volleying off their missiles.

[shrewd pecan]

surprised no one didn't attempt that concept before

even with active radar homing missile it seems like a pretty decent concept

[runic prairie]

It takes up a pylon and datalinking means that you can just use an aircraft further away to guide it.

Su-57 has those cheek mounted radars to similar effect and there were proposals for the F-22 to have similar ones installed.

But network-centric warfare kinda makes it unnecessary.

[shrewd pecan]

fair

[manic latch]

You mean IRST?

[runic prairie]

No, the Su-57 has a pair of smaller Aesa radars in its cheeks.

[manic latch]

Ah

X bands ye

[delicate beacon]

https://bibliotheeknlda.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p21075coll26/id/152/rec/210
Goalkeeper history

[tough quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/169946730173825024/1105208494182903809/image-28.png

time to get funny

[spring briar]

listen..

[manic latch]

Likely as counter to new F-14B

Hmm. Su-33= F-14, Mig-29K= F-18?

[tough quail]

maybe

surprisingly sane choice for the first flanker

[tough quail]

rotund

[manic latch]

Mi-24 inside Mi-26

[tough quail]

shitty export carrier flanker is a good way to put one in without basically annihilating top tier with another uber jump

[grave ravine]

That sounds way too smart for Gaijin

Im sure they will find some way to screw this up

[manic latch]

I mean current state is

2 F-16, 2 F-14 vs Mig-29 and Mig-23ML

[tough quail]

did you like

forget freestyles exist

[manic latch]

I actually did

[tough quail]

so yeah its fine

[manic latch]

F-15 will break it

https://tenor.com/view/jet-gif-22100461

[tough quail]

savor the time we have left

until the infinite flanker-eagle pissing match era

[manic latch]

Aim-120 vs R-77 spam

Future of warfare smh

[tough quail]

the eu still fucking around with tornados when gaijin forgets to put in anything actually good

[manic latch]

Eurofighter

https://tenor.com/view/airplane-fighter-planes-gif-13328516

[tough quail]

they'll add them like four updates late

[manic latch]

I like how

British puts its influence on European plane names

Just Eurofighter?

British: Nah slap Typhoon in its name since British

Europe: Just Next gen fighter?

British: Nah call it Tempest since British

[tough quail]

to be fair

correct choice

given tempest and typhoon are cool fighter names

[manic latch]

Much better names than NGAD ngl

[tough quail]

i assume it'll get an actual name later into development

[manic latch]

Yup

Turkish MMU name become Kaan

Maybe Ngad will also be dinosaur like Raptor

Tyrannosaurus?

Too long

[spring briar]

@tough quail

[delicate beacon]

Hellrood

Lichtgranaat

[tough quail]

splendid

[shrewd pecan]

We aren’t getting the R-77 anytime soon

Same with the aim-120

Probably gonna end up with the active radar R-27s

[cinder escarp]

It's already in the files. For the Yak-141.

[shrewd pecan]

There’s been a lot of things in the files for a long time

[tough quail]

this was about the future of eagle/flanker variant spam anyway

[shrewd pecan]

fair

[tough quail]

which is when the really funny leaks start inshallah

[dusty kraken]

Lets actually be immune to drafts as war thunder players by being a national security risk

[eternal veldt]

I'd leak Malin's plans to gabgob if I had one

Because they fucked up the funnel

[dusty kraken]

You'll get your correct model but it'll be at br 5.0 with no good reason

[eternal veldt]

Don't worry, I almost don't play WT Naval

Not like Malin is in her prime anyway, she's in her 1943 refit

Massive loads of AA dakka, but loses a torp toob

Is Helena still broken as fuck?

[dusty kraken]

Always has been

Good news is most Helenas are zombies

But a sentient Helena player that has a grudge for you is probably the most terrifying thing to exist

[void raptor]

Where was hoods coat of arms placed on the ship, or is the coat of arms being displayed on a ship just something that WoWs does

[eternal veldt]

Best girl as always.

[eternal veldt]

Most Royal Navy ships retain their coat of arms on their bridge throughout the war.

[void raptor]

Huh wows does that but not on hood or I’m just missing it

[eternal veldt]

Hood doesnt seem to carry it on the bridge like others.

WoWS' Hood isn't greatly modelled or coloured, tbh.

Yeap. Hood has it on the gun plug/tampions, but not the ship bridge itself.

Conversely, ships like Repulse have them right there.

It's in general not a standardized thing.

[void raptor]

repulse has hers in game, I’ll check renown

[eternal veldt]

Renown 44 should have it. Renown in the tech tree is an abomination and should be burnt to the keel.

[void raptor]

Yeh renown 44 had hers, I just wish the tier 8 was a theoretical hood 42’ refit

[eternal veldt]

Eh, just an Admiral will do, to be honest.

Designs like J3 are alright. Hawke is an invention, but looks alright.

Just stay away from Drach's "1944 Hood". Gives me a headache.

[void raptor]

I wanna more American dreadnoughts refits too

[void raptor]

Unfortunately I do believe that one is the most plausible, at least you’ve never seen his HMS hood all forwards turrets from ultimate admirals

[eternal veldt]

Well...no.

There are multiple issues with how Drach interpreted the refit.

[void raptor]

At least I got hoods special flag from missions today

[eternal veldt]

Just on top of my head:

1. 133mm > 113mm, chronic shortage of 133mm mount

2. funnel caps, Vanguard's design is barely in wind tunnel testing

3. Hangar/Catapult, RN is busy pulverizing the entire section by 1943 and turning it into a boat deck so extra AA can be added

4. wrong antifouling/bottom colour, but I've talked about this so many times here I'm sure everyone hates me for it

[void raptor]

Well hoods refit was most likely gonna happen in the US so just saying “extra AA” is understating it

Plus after the refit I do see hood mostly in the pacific

[eternal veldt]

There are two issues with a "Hood refit"

I doubt that the US would dedicate the resources to do a refit on the QE/Renown's level, especially with King in command

Nor is the British going to do a refit to Hood for the forseeable future short of repairing her battle/wear and tear damage (like her stripped turbine while chasing after Strasbourg during Operation Catapult)

Mostly because British shipyards are in full capacity and everything is devoted to the construction of smaller craft and escorts

It's also why the slated R-class and the remaining two QE refits are told to piss off and they were relegated to second-line convoy escort duty.

So, while Hood 1942 does look appealing, don't think it's going to happen first and foremost, and if its going to be done, most certainly not a radical rebuild unless she's badly damaged to the point that a full reconstruction is required.

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-stare-funny-gif-26367587

Italy will likely get the Tornado ADV this patch except with worse missiles than the british one

then again i think gaijin barely modelled the difference between Skyflash TEMP and SuperTEMP

so it will most likely be nearly the same

[tough quail]

yeap

like i said

[strong plank]

What was the reason behind Richelieu's US refit?

[tough quail]

we will have an eagle and a flanker about four updates before anything close to a typhoon

[strong plank]

I remember reading it was some sort of special request

but how'd they talk the US into that

[eternal veldt]

Two massive reasons for the special request as I recall

[tough quail]

stole the statue of liberty and held it hostage

[eternal veldt]

For one, 3 of Turret II's guns are completely out of action, with Gun No.7's gun barrel completely destroyed

For two, Hermes did a funny with her swordfish in the opening stages of Operation Menace

Her stern near the shaft area was damaged, and subsequently was partially repaired with a cofferdam built around the area

[strong plank]

ah so basically she really needed repairs

[eternal veldt]

By 1942, honestly, I don't think Richelieu is combat worthy

[strong plank]

and I assume the british shipyards couldn't have handled it

[eternal veldt]

Nor are there enough propellent charges

So the US took over, looked at the shell and charges, and made shells and charges

Though IIRC the shell was a scaled up/down version of a US shell, but this is more @spring briar 's territory

[strong plank]

guess that makes a degree of sense

[eternal veldt]

(The US manufactured propellent charges were dogshit)

Also worth noting is that US also did the same thing with the 152mm guns

Except this time they ripped Emile Bertin's turret II open, stole her middle gun and sent it to Dahlgren

[strong plank]

always thought it was a little funky that in the middle of the war, the US'd go

[eternal veldt]

...and never gave her back.

https://tenor.com/view/poi-yuudachi-theft-gif-22854108

[strong plank]

"yeah sure we'll do it, send her across the atlantic to us"

[eternal veldt]

And tbh, ignoring the trust issues

The fire control radar US gave to Richelieu can only be described as an out of season April Fool's joke

"Yes Monsieur, you have a battleship fire control system"

[tough quail]

they did the absolute bare minimum they could

[eternal veldt]

"No sir, all we are giving you is a PT Boat radar because we don't trust you"

[tough quail]

and yet wondered why france kept spiting them during the cold war

[strong plank]

I'm guessing security concerns?

[tough quail]

they barely considered the french allies

[strong plank]

this is the same USN that would paint out parts of the Iowas' radars in photographs iirc

I think there were also a few US ships that would have stuff like that installed after setting off but I can't remember where my brain is pulling that tidbit from

[eternal veldt]

Radar is sensitive technology

Cant have a spy disclosing your stuff now

At least it's not Shinano level secret

a grand total of four fucking photographs found so far, three of which are literal pixels

[strong plank]

I love that Shinano was such a secret that Archerfish's crew didn't get credit for the kill for a while afterwards

[fervent wyvern]

Effective AA guns?

Was Malins AA that good?

[prisma oar]

Ise but purpose built

for that role

and not refitted by the goons

[eternal veldt]

Le Malin has quadruple bofors and a few 20mm oerlikon tubs after her US refit

Something close to an as built Fletcher, I think

The cost is naturally the last set of torpedoes behind the second funnel gets deleted

Now let's see if WT does the gamer move and classifies them as CL, as the US did to hasten their refit waiting times

Don't expect them to hit 40+ knots either, as their max speed was reduced to IIRC ~37 knots with all the new things aboard

[dusty kraken]

how good was the SAP tho

[eternal veldt]

Isnt that up to Gaijiggles

Again, Richelieu's territory

[spiral cedar]

The powder bags were the same sort the USN used, the French just weren’t used to USN handling methods

[manic latch]

Light battleship Bismarck

[tough quail]

ohhh

that explains why they made the deck out of sandpaper

[spring briar]

Specifically made to murder DD’s and lightly armoured CL’s

[spring briar]

Jabo

[spiral cedar]

Toob

[manic latch]

Rich why uhh

Horrible turret traverse and unprotected on top

When expecting hunting stuff like these

Why no enclosed turret

[tough quail]

because heavy

[delicate beacon]

Candy

[spring briar]

Tbf they are quite old designs when compared to other top tier DD’s in WT

[delicate beacon]

Why no 3"

[spring briar]

Like

The Fantasques are contemporary with the first modern class of US destroyers, the farraguts

[charred coral]

https://youtu.be/07Zd0Oy8JyQ

[delicate beacon]

Hr Ms Middelburg

[manic latch]

Ah

[spring briar]

And the farraguts had issues just like the fantasques when first completed

Being fitted with the brand new 5”/38

[lament quartz]

Nice 240

[spring briar]

Give the fantasques the same amount of time to evolve like the farragut -> fletcher lineage and we’d likely get something spectacular

[lament quartz]

Alabama needs work

The rust is starting to piss me off

Alabama has a mix of AA

Quite interesting for a ship thats called lucky A

Most of her AA is at the bow

And amidship

[spring briar]

Mostly amidships

[delicate beacon]

Bow is good place for AA

[spring briar]

No

@delicate beacon I found a real treasure

Look at this gorgeous lineup

[manic latch]

How

[lament quartz]

normally most ships ive been on all upgraded to 40 mm bofors

but to never loose a sailor to combat is a feat most ships earn

[manic latch]

What happened to French army in 1920

[remote monolith]

I like how everything there is from Turkish claims and not a single French one

[manic latch]

They also captured the commanders too

[spring briar]

🥱

[desert agate]

a little bit of surface rust is nothing to be overly concerned about

its not like these ships didnt achieve considerably more rust while in active service

its just what metal does when it encounters oxygen

or water

both of which are quite prevalent on earth

many of these museums aren't going to perform extensive paint work unless it reaches a point where the expense is worth it, slightly damaging the aesthetic isn't that big of a deal

[alpine onyx]

Rust isn't even really damage to aesthetic if ya ask me

Ships are something to be used, not showcase models to place behind glass under vacuum

[lament quartz]

I preserved ships for a living

A nice coat of haze grey is gonna look good for the public

Yorkie or any CV is the largest project a volunteer force is gonna deal with

Battleships and destroyers i can finish from bow to stern in a week

Just restoring and preserving a space for the public to get into

i should ask for volunteer work on midway and iowa plus the victory ship the only skill i know its preservation and restoration

[delicate beacon]

Can you rescue Almirante Grau and restore her for me?

[lament quartz]

If its alfoat i can restore any ships hull and bulkheads

Just need the supplys

Which will run around 2k

Paint is also incredibly sticky and hard to get off the skin

[desert agate]

Diamantina has unfortunately seen better days

shes pretty rusty thanks to covid and the like screwing over her maintenance period

Vampire is in drydock right now though

here she is in her 1981 drydocking

[eternal veldt]

Just don't look at a ship after staying at sea for more than 3 months

stares at KGV after her 1940 cruise

[alpine onyx]

Wish I had images of Scheer after her cruise

[delicate beacon]

We have some of Spee.

[eternal veldt]

Vanguard looks like a piece of shit too after a one month extensive shakedown.

All bow paint basically flaked off, and wake areas are badly rusted.

[eternal veldt]

I'm not entirely sure about this one, since Im not sure if "sacks of coal" is the feel of US propellent charges, but yes, poorly suited at the very least

[spring briar]

Perhaps they wrongly stacked the propellant

Or forgot the strings holding it together

It’s definitely an oversight on their part, but it’s nothing that I haven’t experienced many times in my day to day working life

[manic latch]

M60A1's frontal armor

[spring briar]

Thin

[manic latch]

According to Defense News, the U.S. Air Force is seeking to retire a total of 310 aircraft during fiscal year 2024 to free up funds for purchasing more modern replacements. That's more than double the 115 retirements that Congress approved in 2023. Among the 310 planes on the chopping block are 74 of the venerable F-15 type C and D fighters.

[manic latch]

Makes sense. F-15 is close to 40 years old now

F-15EX is last attempt to make her live longer

[bitter sand]

just throw them to Davis and reactive them during war

Like Ghost Fleet

[remote monolith]

fun fact, the holotype for Dilophosaurus didn't live the happiest life and had horribly fucked hands:

"On its left side, it had a fractured scapula and radius, and fibriscesses (like abscesses) in the ulna and the outer phalanx bone of the thumb. On the right side it had torsion of its humeral shaft, three bony tumors on its radius, a truncated articular surface of its third metacarpal bone, and deformities on the first phalanx bone of the third finger. This finger was permanently deformed and unable to flex."

tldr, one arm bent at the completely wrong direction due to joint issues and the other got completely crushed

[foggy oracle]

Were there any cases of during WW2 ships defecting to other side?

Now that is what I wonder might be a good question. Cause I can't recall any case of such

[eternal veldt]

SS Normandie, one of the most beautiful ocean liners ever built, entering New York, then leaving a burnt out shadow of her former self.

As for the defection thing, not any that I particularly remember. Plenty of ships that were salvaged and pressed into foreign/enemy service though.

[runic prairie]

Ghost Fleet is such a goddamn stupid book.

[bitter sand]

Entire Regia Marina after 43

[foggy oracle]

Interesting... thank you

[ivory ridge]

that's not really defecting

because they were still under Italy

[foggy oracle]

Technically, as long as Captain of a fleet lets the other side know that they're either going out of battle/joining their enemy that can be considered defecting

[grave ravine]

Didn't take a picture of the firing console for the Sea Sparrows, but I do have one of the console for the Harpoons (Peter Skram in Denmark)

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, what the RM did definitely isn't defecting

[grave ravine]

I believe there are a few instances of ships defecting from Vichy France to join the Free French Navy

[chilly osprey]

For them, their country signed an armistice with the Allies and surrendered. The Navy itself did not actually do so and was initially trying to figure out where it could find safe harbor while clashing with German forces.

Once they arrived at Allied ports, due to lacking any other options, they resisted British attempts to force their surrender (much to the amusement of the Americans) and in the end a long armistice was signed for the sake of co-belligerence against the Germans and RSI.

Though the two most powerful Italian battleships were interred at Suez, the rest of the fleet was able to operate, largely under its own authority (though, like every Allied navy, still under Allied Supreme command), for the rest of the war.

[foggy oracle]

Hm.. interesting..

[grave ravine]

The F-15C and Ds are spent planes, they would need complete rebuilds to keep flying safely for more than a couple more years

[chilly osprey]

If you want clear defections, your best bet would be to go and look back at WWI

There were a couple cases of Austro-Hungarian ships that defected and sailed to Italy

[foggy oracle]

true true

[grave ravine]

The EX was supposed to replace the C and D in service with a plane with similar but better capabilities, but they are newbuild airframes

[foggy oracle]

Thanks for a little history lesson

[tough quail]

[manic latch]

Project 56K destroyer Bravy is here Horse

its a Kotlin class with Volna-M SAM system with an ammunition load of 18 missiles. SACLOS missiles are capable of acquiring targets at 16 kilometers and are excellent for destroying aircraft at long and medium distances. Moreover, Volna-M missiles are also capable of hitting lightly armored surface targets, dealing tremendous damage when their 30 kg warheads detonate inside the hull. The mount has launching rails for two missiles, and reloading takes a very long time.

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

You can see the 4R90 Yatagan fire control radar for those missiles near her second funnel

[ivory ridge]

Lots of boats and plane blogs

Only one tank and it's a premium

[tough quail]

finally the age of goompy arm launchers

I already forgot the tank tbh

[ivory ridge]

The vismod abrams

You probably forgot cuz it was announced like

2 weeks before everything else

[grave ravine]

The vismod abrams is stupid

cuz its the wrong abrams

[tough quail]

okay yeah I didn't register that as part of the same patch

[manic latch]

Fren

[thorn trail]

How much do you have to change if for example I want to use an Iowa class hull as a Trident SLBM carrier

[ivory ridge]

It seems like gaijin wants to spam every variant of the Ariete amv as a different tank so we are probably getting the pt 2 next patch

[thorn trail]

Like say spared no expense

[tough quail]

first we change your prescription because your meds aren't powerful enough