Stuka vs M1
#history
frigid karma
tough quail
what is it with these weird giga brain takes
and not just
"try to shoot it from the side"
dusty kraken
Complex tactical actions
Vs
Just flank bro
manic latch
on todays episode of ceaseless agony
shrewd pecan
grave ravine
Well apparently Tiger 2 is equal to (better than?) T-55
manic latch
Well apparently Tiger 2 is equal to (better than?) T-55
Wehrb explaining how 75mm> 100mm
remote monolith
newer generations are being exposed to that thread's insanity
there's still hope yet
shrewd pecan
all of the modern army vs WW2 army arguments that could go into interesting ways of counter a superior force that devolve into wheraboo aryan superior race whataboutism
manic latch
Love how South Korea doing neat stuff but few take interest on except Koreans and maybe Polish 
shrewd pecan
the tiger II when that dime store APFSDS cuts right through the UFP
grave ravine
Also
desert agate
this person really didnt deserve the relentless bullying they were subjected to
like it was stupid dont get me wrong
tough quail
I don't think the long boy 88 had much or any advantage in pen even during ww2
desert agate
but they were just a dumb kid
grave ravine
I don't think the long boy 88 had much or any advantage in pen even during ww2
I mean the Long 88 was a powerful AT gun in WW2. Its very definitely not up to the task of dealing with postwar stuff though
tough quail
one momento
manic latch
Ye Super Jumbo was for Long 88mm
I forgot if IS-3 was for normal or long 88mm
shrewd pecan
I mean it’s probably their best chance short of the 128
manic latch
Jagtiger gang
grave ravine
Ye Super Jumbo was for Long 88mm
I forgot if IS-3 was for normal or long 88mm
AFAIK IS-3 is proof against long 88 frontally, though I would have to check
desert agate
the 88mm was pretty equivalent to the soviet 85mm or the american 90mm or british 20pdr
grave ravine
the 88mm was pretty equivalent to the soviet 85mm or the american 90mm or britis...
The Tiger 2 has a more powerful 88 than the tiger 1 did
desert agate
yeah
manic latch
Long one ye
desert agate
but the system itself wasnt totally out of spec for what youd expect from the time
tough quail
Oh yeah the long dong 88 gets shit all over
grave ravine
but the system itself wasnt totally out of spec for what youd expect from the ti...
Yeah, but it did have a clear advantage over the 88 or the m3 90mm
Probably wasnt worth the investment
but it was a powerful gun
desert agate
either way, not penning a t-64
grave ravine
Yeah the D-10T obviously blows the thing out of the water
runic prairie
Oh I remember reading that years ago.
Everyone wins if they just Tabun each-other.
shrewd pecan
thinking about it
tough quail
shrewd pecan
Could the long 88 lower front plate the 64?
grave ravine
Could the long 88 lower front plate the 64?
Lol no
tough quail
head and shoulders the best AT gun in widespread use in the war
shrewd pecan
What’s even the protection on the LFP again?
tough quail
and in use in much higher volume than it's competition to boot
manic latch
Imagine joule of Object 279's 85mm/100
tough quail
Jesus fucking christ
thorny cobalt
Long af barrel
grave ravine
What’s even the protection on the LFP again?
I think 80mm sloped at like 60 degrees
Its in the ricochet range for normal AP
grave ravine
Yeah
grave ravine
given t-64s have actual side armor
AFAIK Iraq didnt have T-64, only T-54/55 and T-72
shrewd pecan
I bought lfp up since spon mentioned the 64
grave ravine
I mean the side armor on a T-64 or T-72 still isnt really gonna stop a long 88, they aren't really well protected on the side
Its like 80mm RH or something like that
shrewd pecan
I mean probably the prime anti tank capability at this point is just gonna be flinging 10.5 and 15 cm HE at the Iraqis
grave ravine
Still they aren't really gonna get much of an opportunity to side shot T series tanks
tough quail
will still hold if decently angled, as opposed to other modern mbts with like
runic prairie
AFAIK Iraq didnt have T-64, only T-54/55 and T-72
I’m pretty sure they had T-62s as well
shrewd pecan
They did
tough quail
35mm
grave ravine
I’m pretty sure they had T-62s as well
Yeah they did, I just brainfarted and forgot those
shrewd pecan
Alongside a bunch of Chinese export tanks
grave ravine
Alongside a bunch of Chinese export tanks
Chinese copies of T-54/55, those actually were the most common models
shrewd pecan
People also forget about the AMX-30s they had
delicate beacon
Showdown 
manic latch
People also forget about the AMX-30s they had
Around 200mm ish frontal effective armor for those
cerulean ice
Yea, only Dorsetshire and Maori have been stated to partake in survivor rescue up until submarine alarm, while the cat is claimed to have been rescued by Cossack. Which already puts a first question mark on the story. The whole Bismarck and Cossack sections of the story are sourced in entirety to a single book (coincidentally by a Polish author, lmao, because that is just so common for WW2 naval books). It is only the Ark Royal part that has multiple sources talking about a presence of a cat... except this one is called Sam
which puts into question if a transfer between Cossack and Ark Royal even happened, and not that Ark Royal had a cat unrelated to Cossack which at some point in some way got himself attached with a myth relating it to two other ships
manic latch
spring briar
manic latch
He is searching the white balloon
runic prairie
“You really oughta go home.”
manic latch
“You really oughta go home.”
Times a Sukhoi visited US vs times F-22 visited Europe 
ivory ridge
which of the 2 was invited and which wasnt
manic latch
which of the 2 was invited and which wasnt
Depends on which home for Sukhoi I guess
strong plank
The “you should go home” was with Iranian Phantoms
manic latch
While good ol 22 has only 1 owner
manic latch
The “you should go home” was with Iranian Phantoms
Oh that one
In 2014, Iranian Air Force F-4 Phantoms moved to intercept an MQ-1 drone flying in international airspace near the Iranian border
spring briar
Omg
manic latch
In 2014, Iranian Air Force F-4 Phantoms moved to intercept an MQ-1 drone flying ...
And F-22 says go home? 
You are 11000km far from home buddy
strong plank
2 years prior a pair of Iranian SU-25s had tried to shoot down another MQ-1
manic latch
Let me guess. That drone was near Iran
strong plank
The F-22 pilot was trying to give the phantom pilots an easy out
manic latch
They should stick to land missiles like how they took down Global Hawk in 2019
strong plank
Shooting down a U.S. drone in international airspace isn’t what I’d call a wise move
ivory ridge
Russia failed to shoot down an MQ-9 over syria with a pantsir
manic latch
Iran also tried with shoulder launched for MQ-9
Seems low range AA is not good for it
So I assume Iran used something like S-300 to shoot Global Hawk
From what we know Libyan National army shot 2 MQ-9s over the country in 4 years
Sadly we don't know what they used
Since their literal best AA is Shilka
They do have Chinese Wing Loong however...
It was donated by UAE
Ok yeah
Wing Loongs with her BA-7 missiles likely the ones who shot down those MQ-9s
But then Ba-7 is anti-tank...
Yo Tato
Can you use Hellfires to shoot down slow moving flying objects?
Wanna know if it would be possible to shoot a drone through drone with use of anti tank guided missile
grave ravine
Wanna know if it would be possible to shoot a drone through drone with use of an...
Yeah the hellfire can shoot down drones, AFAIK Hellfire has 2 A2A kills, a Cessna and what looks like a Shahed. Ground launched ATGMs also have a variety of anti air kills, mainly against helicopters, with a number of videos of Stugnas shooting down Russian helicopters in Ukraine, and a few older videos of TOWs taking down helicopters in Syria
grave ravine
From what we know Libyan National army shot 2 MQ-9s over the country in 4 years
LNA had Pantsir AFAIK
manic latch
LNA had Pantsir AFAIK
Ok now it makes sense
chilly osprey
Yeah, LNA made pretty wide use of Pantsir
To exactly what extent they had Russian personnel manning them is, iirc, not clear
chilly osprey
But they were doing numbers against GNA drones until the Turks starting bringing in their EW equipment and taking over drone operations, which swung things the other way.
frigid karma
You are 11000km far from home buddy
manic latch
Speaking of Turks. They flought their first domestic jet today
likely American engines but
manic latch
True
manic latch
Run
Ran
Fly
Flo
delicate beacon
Vliegen gevlogen
delicate beacon
Scherp
eternal veldt
grave ravine
bruh what
runic prairie
I think we should lock that guy in a church and burn it down.
Let him see how brave Dirlewanger really was.
Wehrbs fall into three categories:
Stupid, Closeted Neo-Nazis, and Open Neo-Nazis.
They are not mutually exclusive.
thorny cobalt
Wehrbs fall into three categories:
Stupid, Closeted Neo-Nazis, and Open Neo-Nazi...
“Mein opa served in the waffen SS and he was honorable man who simply fought for his country. What is wrong with that?”
eternal veldt
Isn't he ultimately locked up with some Polish guards?
Must did an oopsie here and there.
manic latch
Isn't he ultimately locked up with some Polish guards?
French said he had heart attack irrc
manic latch
He reportedly died around 5–7 June 1945 in a prison camp at Altshausen, probably as a result of ill treatment. There are numerous conflicting reports of the nature of his death: the French said that he died of a heart attack and was buried in an unmarked grave; or he was taken by armed Poles, presumably former forced laborers; or French military prisoners (of Polish descent); or Polish soldiers (29xième Groupement d'Infanterie Polonaise), who were mistreated in French custody; or former inmates and prison guards; or that he escaped and there were some rumours that he joined the French Foreign Legion. Ultimately his fate is unknown, but it is generally considered most likely that he died at Altshausen.
grave ravine
Wehrbs fall into three categories:
Stupid, Closeted Neo-Nazis, and Open Neo-Nazi...
I mean I don't think Ive met a wherb who wasn't stupid
runic prairie
“Mein opa served in the waffen SS and he was honorable man who simply fought for...
I remember some German talking about how he had a Grandfather in the SS (I forget the context of the conversation).
Wehrb says something to the effect of, “Your Grandfather was an honorable man.”
German guy replies that his Grandfather was a piece of shit and it’s good that he’s dead and gone.
eternal veldt
Some wehrbs are simply just in the early stages of the Dunning-Kruger effect, me formerly included
Those are still fine with information given to them
Neo-Nazis that double down, less so
thorny cobalt
Wehraboos you don’t see anymore
frigid karma
Stabbing the heart is technically a heart attack <:BuckyPrideZoom:91104255322110...
No Frenchmen would’ve given him that quick a death
thorny cobalt
Atleast from my experience
eternal veldt
Nobody said it can't be the coup de grace
runic prairie
Atleast from my experience
Half to a third of the Ironblood fans are dangerously close if not downright wehrbs.
frigid karma
My coup de grace would’ve involved organs between the legs a lot more
The deepest I’ll go into the wehrb hole is their uniforms and vehicles look nice
eternal veldt
Bold of you to assume it wasnt done at the onset already.
frigid karma
The rest is 
thorny cobalt
Half to a third of the Ironblood fans are dangerously close if not downright weh...
Didn’t say they all died out unfortunately.
manic latch
Only good SS I know is Hans Wilhelm Münch also called The Good Man of Auschwitz
kindred reef
TIL there are R-27ETs in the WT files
manic latch
He developed many elaborate ruses to keep inmates alive
frigid karma
What are those
tough quail
extendo range infrared superfucker missiles
frigid karma
Ah
tough quail
absolutely filthy compared to anything in WT
manic latch
What are those
eternal veldt
A couple bits off their military construction (if you count it that) are not completely irredeemable, at least when you look at the Deutschlands
eternal veldt
Or, ironically, the Tiger, if it was actually used as an actual fucking breakthrough tank
manic latch
TIL there are R-27ETs in the WT files
Which one tho
eternal veldt
And not hailed as a god-killing machine
tough quail
the proper ET, not the ET1
manic latch
Noice
tough quail
likely how it will go
frigid karma
Or, ironically, the Tiger, if it was actually used as an actual fucking breakthr...
curse you daebom
manic latch
141 style 
manic latch
could be paired with later tomcats tho
Ah
manic latch
Super Tomcat
shrewd pecan
not sure what the performance different would be between the R-40 and AIM-54D
tho MIG-31 would probably have the edge when it comes to F&F BVR missiles
tough quail
yeah foxhound/foxbats will probably be released alone
unless they do like a whole interceptor meme pack
shrewd pecan
F-14D would probably be a good match up for it
tough quail
and its like voodoos
shrewd pecan
tho I'm just waiting for the F-16 ADF to get AIM-120s out of nowhere one update
manic latch
Moment they add F-22 and doesn't nerf or add counter for NA whales to get her in day 1
shrewd pecan
F-14D also makes the tomcat into a pretty decent ground pounder considering its ability to mount guidance pods and other ordnance
shrewd pecan
Moment they add F-22 and doesn't nerf or add counter for NA whales to get her in...
no knowing Gaijin
if we ever get to the F-22
its gonna have no stealth
half of its gimmicks missing
yet still gonna trash the field due to having 6 AIM-120s
manic latch
I still remember Harrier nightmare
tough quail
it'll just get heat seekers lobbed at it given these maps are short ranged and everyone comes from the same direction
WT would have to fundamentally change for stealth to matter that much
manic latch
Stealth should be tested with April fools or F-117
shrewd pecan
F-117 wouldn't really be a bad addition
since all it would be is just climb
bomb a base
and loiter because they can't snipe you with R-27s or AIM-7s
shrewd pecan
she can take 2000s
by the time we get to the F-22
odds are maps are probably gonna be bigger
manic latch
B-52/ Tu-95: at long last
shrewd pecan
I doubt it
manic latch
shrewd pecan
unless its like
super early versions of either of them
at like the era of F-86s and MIG-15s
shrewd pecan
its like
mid to low tier bombers where they can just climb
and hide the entire match
manic latch
B-1 and B-2?
manic latch
Would be interesting sight for ground battle support
shrewd pecan
for B-52, Tu-95 and B-1 to be doable
they'd have to make electronic warfare
a actual thing
tough quail
backfire gib
shrewd pecan
and you know
the twenty million things that make modern fighters survivable
that WT doesn't have
grave ravine
The deepest I’ll go into the wehrb hole is their uniforms and vehicles look nice
Fair enough, their uniforms were made by Hugo Boss
shrewd pecan
or its just gonna be pantsirs smiting everything left and right
manic latch
backfire gib
Yamato looking at incoming Backfires after she killed a Gangut
grave ravine
Or, ironically, the Tiger, if it was actually used as an actual fucking breakthr...
The issues with Tiger were mostly with its production, some 250 variants in a roughly 1300 unit production run
made building the things crazy inefficient, something like 10 times the man hours needed to make a T-34, or 30 times that needed to make Sherman (though the US had the advantage of the best industrial base in the world before the war)
manic latch
made building the things crazy inefficient, something like 10 times the man hour...
I don't know why they needed it
Fear of KV-1?
shrewd pecan
breakthrough tank
grave ravine
Fear of KV-1?
They needed a better armored breakthrough tank, it wasn't specifically in response to tank developments elsewhere
shrewd pecan
it was meant to be held in the rear lines to be repaired and readied to create breakthroughs
manic latch
US didn't had a breakthrough till Jumbo right
shrewd pecan
ended up becoming the fireman of the Eastern front and taking horrible losses because of that
tough quail
The issues with Tiger were mostly with its production, some 250 variants in a ro...
no the suspension is garbage
thats very much not a production issue
grave ravine
US didn't had a breakthrough till Jumbo right
Yeah, and note how short of a production run it had
grave ravine
no the suspension is garbage
I mean repairing it was pretty involved, but it worked and didn't fail especially quickly
tough quail
soviet mud says hello
grave ravine
soviet mud says hello
Tiger actually did pretty well with mud thanks to its low ground pressure
tough quail
until the mud gets caked in the roadwheels
grave ravine
Like it wasn't perfect, but the suspension design did have some advantages in terms of being space efficient and effective on a vehicle of its weight
manic latch
M4 Sherman > M26 Pershing> M48
T34> T-43= M103
tough quail
whatnow kremlin
manic latch
what lead to what
grave ravine
Its funny cuz in literature Tiger and T-34 are both noted to have particularly good mud crossing ability, yet their wikipedia articles generally give you the opposite view
grave ravine
M4 Sherman > M26 Pershing> M48
T34> T-43= M103
The link between M4 and pershing is a lot more tenuous than that between M26 and M48
shrewd pecan
you'd have to throw in the T20, T23 and T25
tough quail
pershings aren't really related to shermans
shrewd pecan
even then I'd only really call it a cousin relationship
tough quail
and M48s are actually scaled down M103s too
grave ravine
you'd have to throw in the T20, T23 and T25
Yeah, and even then the T20 was supposed to be a clean slate design, though it shares a lot of parts from Sherman
tough quail
which is part of why they suck much less than earlier pattons
grave ravine
cuz they worked
manic latch
and M48s are actually scaled down M103s too
Isn't 48 a fixed 26
tough quail
nope
grave ravine
Isn't 48 a fixed 26
46 is a fixed 26, 48 is an evolution of 47 which is an evolution of 46
manic latch
Ah
tough quail
started as the M103 and got scaled down to regular ol mbt
eternal veldt
The things I'd do to see the T32 deployed just to fuck KTs
manic latch
started as the M103 and got scaled down to regular ol mbt
103 was a scaled down t34
tough quail
T-44 my beloved
grave ravine
P-80 was the best early jet, just barely too late to see action in WW2
tough quail
when you build like 2000 of the best tank in the world before the war ends and just never use them
grave ravine
when you build like 2000 of the best tank in the world before the war ends and j...
AFAIK IS3 saw use in the middle east
tough quail
referring to T-44s in ww2 specifically there, but aye
frigid karma
tfw the only kills the meteor got are on grounded aircraft
grave ravine
tfw the only kills the meteor got are on grounded aircraft
and V-1s
manic latch
AFAIK IS3 saw use in the middle east
6 days war
tough quail
rotund friend
manic latch
IDF also did 105mm AP tests on a captured one
manic latch
Su-100 in Yemen 2015
grave ravine
IS-3 also saw service in 2014
ooh yeah I forgot about that
grave ravine
Su-100 in Yemen 2015
T-34 Yemen
Paraguayan Shermans on parade (they were only retired in like 2017)
eternal veldt
Thanks for reminding me about the cursed T-62 turret on T-34 hull emplacement
grave ravine
Thanks for reminding me about the cursed T-62 turret on T-34 hull emplacement
If you want something cursed
manic latch
Wonder if Syria still has Panzer 4
manic latch
If you want something cursed
grave ravine
Wonder if Syria still has Panzer 4
Since none have been seen in the civil war, they are probably all gone
manic latch
grave ravine
ISIS star wars sail barge lol
manic latch
Jabba's yacht
grave ravine
X1A (super stuart)
grave ravine
T-55 turret on truck
thorny patio
Do you think AL will ever add the og Arleigh Burke?
shrewd pecan
no
thorny patio
Ah come oooon, it'd be cool
thorny patio
JUST midway, lol
deep apex
She missed the war by only 1 week
grave ravine
Maybe Midway but that's a stretch of itself
Eh Midway isn't too much of a stretch, they have Centaur and palls
literally only commissioned in the 50s
cuz Centaur was fundamentally still a ww2 ship, it just took the brits forever to finish her cuz they were broke
thorny patio
Okay but an shan... Legit if they can have retrofits that make them more in line with their 70's armament... What's stopping others from being added?
grave ravine
Okay but an shan... Legit if they can have retrofits that make them more in line...
I mean its one thing to have a post war retro (give essex class nukes lol), but its another to introduce a literal 90s ship
thorny patio
Not to be technical but AB was made in the 80s
grave ravine
Not to be technical but AB was made in the 80s
first one entered commission in 1991
thorny patio
Ah okay they were ordered in the 80s, commissioned in the 90s
Wait, how the hell does it take almost a decade to build a ship? XD
I kid i kid
grave ravine
Wait, how the hell does it take almost a decade to build a ship? XD
I mean the design process took a while, but actual build time was short, laid down December 88, launched September 89, in service July 91
thorny patio
Ah
frigid karma
Wait, how the hell does it take almost a decade to build a ship? XD
sometimes, yeah
grave ravine
sometimes, yeah
Case in point the Centaurs, laid down during WW2, finished in the 1950s
grave ravine
Yeah she participated in what was really the only allied naval victory in the Dutch East Indies Campaign
thorny patio
Ooooh yay, so she'd be a good pick for a niche event XD
Would u make her rare, elite, or god forbid SR
grave ravine
Would u make her rare, elite, or god forbid SR
probs rare, putting a clemson as SR is highly dubious, and even elite is kinda pushing it
considering it was a group of 4 clemsons that fought that battle, and 4 elite clemsons would be kinda wonk
I imagine it would be a good pick for some ABDA command event though
thorny patio
ABDA?
grave ravine
ABDA?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-British-Dutch-Australian_Command also known as how not to run a naval campaign
eternal veldt
WW1 botes can be SSR
grave ravine
It was the allied joint command during the Dutch East Indies Campaign
eternal veldt
Putting a four piper at SR isn't a far fetch imo if the game wants it so
grave ravine
If we get a four piper SR, it should be Campbeltown IMO
thorny patio
Ah
grave ravine
Though shes not Dutch East Indies obviously
ivory ridge
probs rare, putting a clemson as SR is highly dubious, and even elite is kinda p...
a fucking DE is SSR and another is purple
so lol
thorny patio
I'll je happy with my JPJ... I like all the ships named after the mad lad of the revolutionary navy
eternal veldt
Are you referring to Hammann as the DE? Or Eldridge?
grave ravine
a fucking DE is SSR and another is purple
Eldridge is kinda stupid, whats the purple one?
ivory ridge
Hamman
ivory ridge
Are you referring to Hammann as the DE? Or Eldridge?
both
one is gold and the other is elite
so
eternal veldt
I ate the SSR in my question 💀
grave ravine
ah yeah some random Edsall class lol
eternal veldt
Don't diss the DEs
grave ravine
The obvious choices for gold DEs IMO are Sammy B and England
thorny patio
What would a Clemson JPJ look like as a ship girl u think?
eternal veldt
Very good workhorses
frigid karma
also *anything chinese*
anything chinese all purple and above
grave ravine
Very good workhorses
Some of them did a lot of good, others basically did nothing cuz the sub situation was already under control and they just patrolled around the Caribbean and all
eternal veldt
I dont remember if any were involved in picket duty in the closing stages
grave ravine
I dont remember if any were involved in picket duty in the closing stages
AFAIK radar pickets were mostly newer destroyers
Again if you want obvious choices for SR DEs, its Sammy B and England, although Sammy B could even be a UR if you really wanted to push it
I am patiently waiting for a Samar event
ivory ridge
UR
thorny patio
Paul Jones should be dressed up like a pirate XD
ivory ridge
eternal veldt
Taffy 3 being UR is really a bit of a stretch, as valorous their actions are
Because if that is the case, I also think Hatsuzuki and Espero should also be URs
grave ravine
Ok but counterpoint Yudachi is a UR (retrofit, but still)
frigid karma
Yudachi is a mistake <:BuckyPrideZoom:911042553221107714>
Of course Yuudachi is ur
grave ravine
If any Japanese DD should have gotten UR based on war service, it was Yukikaze
frigid karma
She is in yasakuni shrine
thorny patio
Yudachi is life tho
eternal veldt
Not forgetting her war crimes anytime soon
thorny patio
Pls dun kill me
eternal veldt
But really, I suspect Yudachi has to do with that other game
thorny patio
Hm?
grave ravine
Yeah Hatsuzuki is rad, but not as rad as Sammy B
eternal veldt
Kancolle was why that name was so prominent
thorny patio
Aaaah
grave ravine
Kancolle was why that name was so prominent
Apparently it all stems back to Gundam or something
thorny patio
Ok speaking of ships that give off other game vibes...
Musashi reminds me of Raiden Shogun
frigid karma
Not exactly original
quick shard
Wat AL server u guys from?
eternal veldt
Apparently it all stems back to Gundam or something
As far as my understanding goes, it's mostly that "poi" thing
grave ravine
As far as my understanding goes, it's mostly that "poi" thing
I was looking up where the nickname Nightmare of the Solomons came from, and it first appeared in a Gundam episode
eternal veldt
Well, yes...also just KC cope.
grave ravine
I think KC got it from Gundam
ivory ridge
Yuudachi and Shima being KC bait
Also ayanami trying to be KC shima tbh
in the early days
dapper parcel
Yudachi is a mistake <:BuckyPrideZoom:911042553221107714>
What having a narcissistic surviving CO do to a shipfu
grave ravine
What having a narcissistic surviving CO do to a shipfu
AFAIK Yudachi's captain died later in the Guadalcanal campaign, but Im not sure
cerulean ice
Ok speaking of ships that give off other game vibes...
Musashi reminds me of Ra...
oh my god, Raiden (not to be confused with Raiden, not to be confused with Raiden, not to be confused with Raiden) invented the association of colour purple with thunders!111oneone!11!
deep apex
Uh
cerulean ice
fucking weebs
deep apex
I didn't think she even looked like her
Mostly because purple is not immediately associated with lightning in my mind
cerulean ice
who only know like a single popular thing and think it invented like half the things present in japanese games
frigid karma
who only know like a single popular thing and think it invented like half the th...
guarantee he also believes "genshin copied botw because gliding and climbing"
frigid karma
no, it's the same idea
cerulean ice
anyways, a ship can not be in a shrine because it is a ship
maiden citrus
'let's release our purple electric sword lady with mecha arms
right after this other game released their purple electric sword lady with mecha arms like a month ago'
dapper parcel
AFAIK Yudachi's captain died later in the Guadalcanal campaign, but Im not sure
I might conflate them with Hara, but I remember there's also some officer-turned-author postwar that claim many little trivia about her that don't pass my smell test
maiden citrus
musashi is a copy of her boss fight
deep apex
Idrgaf
frigid karma
ohh
maiden citrus
which released very shortlyish before musashi did
grave ravine
I might conflate them with Hara, but I remember there's also some officer-turned...
Hara was captain of Amatsukaze until 1st Guadalcanal, and later Shigure after Amatsukaze took heavy damage in 1st Guadalcanal
deep apex
Also this is so off the mark a British night bombing raid has more accuracy on topic
grave ravine
While his memoirs are known to have a ton of inaccuracies, they are also generally still considered a decent source on Japanese naval tactics and the specific actions of Japanese warships in 1st Guadalcanal.
Like you have to read it critically, but its not useless either
dapper parcel
Unless it's outright implausible, which are very common
A lot of these memoirs feels like self insert light novel
A lot of retconned strategic evaluation for one
cerulean ice
and by the end of the day Yuudachi retro is likely more of the case of her actually being popular on CN, enough to even get into top 3, not just her inflated perception alone
(although part of the reason of her popularity to begin with might been influenced by inflated perception)
grave ravine
Yeah strategic eval stuff is basically bunk, but its good from a tactics PoV and is really the only 1st hand Japanese account we have of 1st Guadalcanal
cerulean ice
you can joke about war crimes every time she is mentioned, but chinese themselves clearly didn't mind when they picked her
grave ravine
Speaking of Amatsukaze is a ship I am surprised we havent gotten yet
cerulean ice
and Shimakaze isn't KC bait, Shimakaze is, it may surprise you but
Shimakaze is likely Shimakaze bait
like, you know, you might not be aware, but there was a japanese ship in the past called Shimakaze
who is really popular among naval enthusiasts because she was peak japanese destroyer design
grave ravine
who is really popular among naval enthusiasts because she was peak japanese dest...
Akizuki > Shimakaze
I kid, they did different things, but still I really like the Akizukis
cerulean ice
(I know, Ducks > Shima)
runic prairie
Do you think AL will ever add the og Arleigh Burke?
No. Modern Naval combat is completely different from that of WWII.
Ships these days lack armor for the most part so getting close is a great way to be destroyed.
Think of it like every ship is an aircraft carrier trying to find the others in a massive stretch of sea before launching a missile attack.
One of the best descriptions of it is:
“To illustrate take the following generic situation and think of the naval environment. One actually could extend this to other environments as well.
Put two football teams in a stadium at night each on their defended goal line. Each team will provide the backfield players with rifles and the linemen all have a pistol. Each weapon is equipped with a flashlight fastened to the barrel. The quarterback is equipped with a flashing signal light.
Now turn out all the lights so it is absolutely dark.
Who wants to turn on their light first?
Now to more accurately replicate the naval environment we put half the fans in the stands more or less evenly distributed on the field. We also put two blimps overhead, one for each team, equipped with flashing light and binoculars.”
eternal veldt
There is a reason why Shimakaze is classified as a "Type C" and not Type A "torpedo" or Type B "AA" ship
Because Shimakaze is simply built different
(as the "perfect"/larger DD)
grave ravine
There is a reason why Shimakaze is classified as a "Type C" and not Type A "torp...
Hey you forgot the Type-D (Destroyer Escort)
cerulean ice
not really a "forget" if not relevant to the point 
eternal veldt
Matsus, yes, but Im talking specifically Shimas
We can also talk about how IJN should have thrown more at Kaibokan construction, but that's a bit of a rough spot
grave ravine
We can also talk about how IJN should have thrown more at Kaibokan construction,...
I mean more escorts would have helped, but they also really did need fleet destroyers
eternal veldt
You mean Yamagiri?
frigid karma
yes
eternal veldt
I mean more escorts would have helped, but they also really did need fleet destr...
Generally IJN needed more of everything
Capitals to stall the US offensive
Escorts to secure their supply lines
Can't pick one in hopes of winning
eternal veldt
how accurate is that super-shima in wows
Trash. Dispose in bin.
runic prairie
Trash. Dispose in bin.
WoWs is a crime against naval history.
eternal veldt
If WG is actually not demented, they would have went the proto-Shima route and made a DD with 2 septuple launchers
As mandated in the design requirement
grave ravine
Can't pick one in hopes of winning
Yeah, that about sums it up
Which ship is the super shima in WOWS?
eternal veldt
Really, it's safe to put every supership except Eagle as fake
And maybe that new...er...Novosibirsk cruiser. Still a bit of a fetch.
grave ravine
also its kinda funny cuz the super shima was really a budget shima designed to be mass produced
eternal veldt
Which ship is the super shima in WOWS?
That Yamagiri thing
With immensely stupid funnel designs taken from the Type III special DDs because why
grave ravine
lol yeah what is that goofiness
eternal veldt
The point of Shima was to eliminate the torpedo reload launcher system entirely
Because 1) you need to fall back and take 30 minutes to reload your torpedoes, then head in and torpedo again
- the reload launcher is a hazard without any benefits
That's why you don't see the funny boxes on Shima, compared to say...Kagero and Asashio
grave ravine
did they put them back?
eternal veldt
On Shima?
eternal veldt
I dont recall TRB on Shima, don't remember Yamagiri
Doesn't matter anyway, game mechanics are game mechanics
grave ravine
yeah
eternal veldt
Weakest French man can slam a 380mm shell alongside its powder casings within 10 seconds
And magically yeet a heavy as fuck 139mm shell into a breech and fire that off in 1.5 seconds, even though said mount had jamming issues
grave ravine
Torpedos reload out of thin air
eternal veldt
Amazing
It would be immensely boring if actual reloads take 30 minutes
Again, just to illustrate the point, you drive a cruiser
You sail 6 hours to a point, then suddenly a plane appears
grave ravine
And magically yeet a heavy as fuck 139mm shell into a breech and fire that off i...
Interesting enough US 5"/38 crews were able to get under 3s reloads
grave ravine
Apparently WOWS screws with combat ranges by nerfing velocity or something
eternal veldt
The 5"/38 shell was less heavy than the RN/French systems
grave ravine
Yeah IK, still very impressive
eternal veldt
It's IIRC also why the 5"/54 was also not as favourable
grave ravine
The US could also actually use that reload time cuz they had good director control
eternal veldt
Shell was heavier and impeded firing rate
The 5"/38 has long mileage though
Given more time and resources, I think some other nations like France could hammer things out, especially on the CAD/139 twin mount systems
grave ravine
I mean what really made the 5"/38 work was the quality of US directors
cerulean ice
Apparently WOWS screws with combat ranges by nerfing velocity or something
when the whole battlefield is scaled down, but wants to keep some of the impression of longer distances, then velocity also has to be scaled down, otherwise there would be a number of basically-hit-scan guns
runic prairie
It's IIRC also why the 5"/54 was also not as favourable
Development of the 5”/54 was complicated.
The heavy shell weight was ultimately what led them to picking the Mk.42 automatic mount over the Mk.41 semiautomatic mount.
eternal veldt
As in time required to get a gun on a target, or?
runic prairie
Additionally they weren’t really in a rush.
eternal veldt
Because the reload rate isn't quite related to the gun director
grave ravine
Because the reload rate isn't quite related to the gun director
Reload rate would be a lot less useful without quality directing, since with the 5"/38 they didn't wait for fall of shot at all to correct fire
eternal veldt
Additionally they weren’t really in a rush.
Yea. The 5"/38 was acceptable as it is, IIRC.
grave ravine
against surface targets anyways
eternal veldt
Oh, if you are talking about the general effectiveness of the 5"/38, then yes
Also applies to the 40mm bofors with the Mark 51 director.
eternal veldt
when the whole battlefield is scaled down, but wants to keep some of the impress...
If I recall, it was the arcing and shell drag that was heavily adjusted
Gunnery dispersion as well, but getting that to real life levels would probably be very unfun.
grave ravine
If I recall, it was the arcing and shell drag that was heavily adjusted
Also just pen tables AFAIK
eternal veldt
Oh, right, those and "overmatch" mechanics
457mm: Sorry, cannot defeat a cruiser bow
460mm: magic acquired
Sure
Either way, leave WoWS as arcade as it is
Because recent developments make me want to drink bleach if we go to the "historical" front
cerulean ice
Because recent developments make me want to drink bleach if we go to the "histor...
just say that you already got a piece about American BBVs ready for the PR document before you do so Silver
frigid karma
wouldn't that be his suicide note
eternal veldt
If they do Louisiana, there is still some interesting tidbits
The other two, I'll be as lazy as WG
Because that's all they deserve
grave ravine
Lol I just saw that a little while ago, both the PKVK and the Chi-To got gaijined
frigid karma
Lol I just saw that a little while ago, both the PKVK and the Chi-To got gaijine...
meh, the chi-to didn't really fully deserve the kill
the pkvk series tanks have completely separate turrets and hulls, if you pen the turret it isn't a full kill
grave ravine
meh, the chi-to didn't really fully deserve the kill
Before your clip starts, they both shoot each other simultaneously, and the Chi-To gets only 1 guy in the turret
Despite using APHE
His shell literally passes straight through the gunner without doing anything
frigid karma
gaijin moment
grave ravine
yep, classic gaijin moment
alpine onyx
Because if that is the case, I also think Hatsuzuki and Espero should also be UR...
SMS Zenta as UR
manic latch
Turkey tested engines of Atak 2 for the first time
manic latch
Turkey tested engines of Atak 2 for the first time
Welcome to the family girl
Soviet engines
eternal veldt
HMS Conway was a naval training school or "school ship", founded in 1859 and housed for most of her life aboard a 19th-century wooden ship of the line. The ship was originally stationed on the Mersey near Liverpool, then moved to the Menai Strait during World War II. While being towed back to Birkenhead for a refit in 1953, she ran aground and was wrecked, and later burned.
quick shard
waffle ss
spring briar
quick shard
ye with extra syrup
eternal veldt
🤨
maiden citrus
I like my waffles dead (put inside a cooker and forced to stay there) and drowned (in butter)
dapper parcel
Does it taste better than luftwaffle?
desert agate
eternal veldt
Does it taste better than luftwaffle?
Light and fluffy, then drown it in Meyerple syrup
quick shard
I like my waffles dead (put inside a cooker and forced to stay there) and drowne...
mhmm moonwaffles
stiff mauve
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1010581869278011474/1100776179096629379/RM_20_2443_0001.jpg
manic latch
The showcase of mostly American firepower was far from flawless. A Himars rocket launcher that took the first shots at the small warship, located about 12 miles away from the launcher, missed with all six of its rockets. The launcher was positioned close to a beach on a naval base
quick shard
oh ye that happened yesterday
desert agate
tbf not like its using an anti-shipping missile
tough quail
yeah that's a really goofy use anyway
I was gonna say it's funny because of the ebin saint himars crowd but I realize I haven't seen a wink of that in like half a year besides a bad arknights scribble
desert agate
himars will be getting a proper anti-shipping capability in the near future
NSM and LRASM-SL are both planned
but they'll be using the ATACMS launcher, which only carries one missile, rather than 6 on the M270 launcher
you'd expect GMLRS to be able to hit a static target in a sinkex, but again, not it's designed purpose
tough quail
even purpose built equipment can have bad days anyway
runic prairie
The showcase of mostly American firepower was far from flawless. A Himars rocket...
Better to have that come up in training than just assuming everything was fine.
thorn trail
NSM and LRASM-SL are both planned
hold on Himars and M270 are gonna be capable of launching NSMs?
I assume the M270 would as well seeing as they're using the same pods the Himars uses
desert agate
so HIMARS has 2 launchers
the 6 pod and the single pod
GMLRS launches from the 6 pod
ATACMS from the single pod
NSM and LRASM-SL are planned for the ATACMS version
thorn trail
yeah i know that. so that means the NSM should also be able to launch from the M270?
ivory ridge
thorn trail
Can someone enlighten me why the germans named 2 pairs of ship in the same class Scharnhorst and Gneisenau? Like did the 2 namesakes have anything in relation to each other hence the Germans named a ww1 cruiser class after them then used the same pair of names for the Scharnhorst class Battleship
desert agate
is this basically just a humvee with a NSM tube
NSM is designed to use the same multi-purpose launch canisters of the Harpoon, allowing it to be mounted onto the decks of warships which were not designed for it, or to mount it on land vehicles
makes it a very versatile, relatively lightweight, capable, modern missile
thorn trail
NSM is designed to use the same multi-purpose launch canisters of the Harpoon, a...
How many NSMs would the Himars be able to carry in a single pod
desert agate
afaik NSM is planned to be integrated with the single cell ATACMS launcher
unless they develop a new launcher, which afaik doesnt currently exist in public domain
stiff mauve
Can someone enlighten me why the germans named 2 pairs of ship in the same class...
Just reusing names
ivory ridge
I dont think there is a specific reason, but it's something that happens
While the first use of Andrea Doria and (Caio) Duilio in the Italian navy werent related, all the subsequent ships with those names were sister
Duilio class battleships in ww1
Andrea Doria class Helicopter cruisers in the 60s
Orizzonte class Destroyers in the 2000s
frigid karma
around 2/3 of the abrams is probably what they're going for
frigid karma
a carrier is a bullpup airfield
dapper parcel
MTU 890 huh
Makes sense but kinda unexpected
runic prairie
afaik NSM is planned to be integrated with the single cell ATACMS launcher
You could probably put a couple RIM-66 SM-2MR missiles in the same pod.
Hook up the HIMARS to a radar and you’ve got a SAM system.
Not perfect but it’s just that much more flexibility.
desert agate
Rim-66 and SM-2 are designed for mk41 VLS which has different dimensions
But there is a plan for a containerised land based VLS system in the works
I can probably see ESSM being squeezed in but I'm not sure there's any point
runic prairie
Rim-66 and SM-2 are designed for mk41 VLS which has different dimensions
RIM-66 was designed to the same dimensions as Tartar, in fact the early SM-1MR versions were called “Digital Tartar”.
It predates the Mk-41 by quite a bit.
LRASM and NSM weren’t designed for integration with the missile pods but that hasn’t stopped them from being integrated.
It would give a more mobile SAM capability to Marine units that can then be adapted for other use.
desert agate
The primary issue is that RIM-66 is longer, but also considerably skinnier than both NSM and ATACMS which would make trying to fit the RIM-66 into the launching system somewhat more difficult
It is of course correct that SM-1 predates the MK41 but it is also true that the SM-1 fits into the MK41 which NSM does not, hence the need for a separate launching system which it was designed to be the same dimensions as the previous Harpoon, which also did not fit into a MK41
Unless they're willing to develop an entirely new launcher (defeating the purpose of the exercise), its going to be very difficult to launch such a missile from a HIMARS
The solution to the issue you have outlined is already being developed
viscid estuary
desert agate
Will need to wait for something more official to show up tho because the whole development is still in the speculation phase afaik
chilly osprey
SM-1, I would note, has never been integrated into Mk.41, even if it would in theory fit.
strong plank
redundant vehicle desu
it's more a replacement for the Stryker MGS isn't it?
strong plank
replacement as in it fills the same role
shrewd pecan
it’s essentially just a tank for the infantry
that’s much more airlift-able than the abrams
strong plank
so more of a replacement for the sheridan then?
shrewd pecan
Pretty much
frigid karma
how can it be the replacement for sheridan if there isn't a glorious 6 inch he boomstick on it
desert agate
SM-1, I would note, has never been integrated into Mk.41, even if it would in th...
Fuck I meant sm2
That's what I get for typing at 2am
Ugh I'm gonna go to bed and reformulate a coherent argument tomorrow
runic prairie
Unless they're willing to develop an entirely new launcher (defeating the purpos...
There are deck box-launchers for the RIM-66. Keep in mind it isn’t just for use in VLS, it has versions for rail launchers as well, making this sort of arrangement feasible.
It is longer, and that does present some complications, but there are similar problems in integrating LRASM into the launching system.
You could probably only get two of the boxes in the space of an ATACMS pod.
desert agate
maybe but I don't see anyone with a viable use case to develop it
runic prairie
It just depends on how much they want to lean into the adaptability side of things.
If you want to keep it simple then there isn’t much of a reason to.
If you want to expand air-defense to new units and provide a new capability it does.
It all depends on the perceived need for that.
shrewd pecan
I don’t really see the point in a air defense roll for the HIMARs
Since that would heavily eat into its intended purpose as a precision strike platform
It’s tasking something onto artillery units that really should be done by its own dedicated platform/unit
runic prairie
True. But like I said, it just depends on how adaptable they want to go.
frigid karma
I don’t really see the point in a air defense roll for the HIMARs
Best air defense is knocking out the plane before it has left the airfield
runic prairie
The containerized VLS has a similar problem.
Picking either strike or air-defense.
chilly osprey
Just Buk-ize ESSM or CAMM-ER and call it a day?
thorn trail
Containerized VLS?
shrewd pecan
AMRAAM-ER on a American BUK equivalent sounds incredible
thorn trail
Is this like similar to that weird shit in AC7 where drones were launched from shipping containers
runic prairie
Containerized VLS?
shrewd pecan
Beyond that the entire air defense roll for the containerized VLS just seems like something that should probably just end up with its own launcher
thorn trail
Oh. So not like the AC7 drone launchers
shrewd pecan
patriots replacement should probably just be a system capable of flinging both SM-6s and PAC-3 missiles
runic prairie
Or are developing them at least
runic prairie
XQ-58 Valkyrie
runic prairie
~~patriots replacement should probably just be a system capable of flinging both...
Put Patriot on MPF hull and we have a deal
thorn trail
I should try making small drones in KSP next
All I have are strike aircraft cold war style of terrain hugging
subtle prawn
runic prairie
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/sea-sparrow-rim-7-surface-to-air-missiles-...
RIM-7 is far from an ideal SAM
grave ravine
RIM-7 is far from an ideal SAM
Presumably they could figure out something with the ESSM too though
runic prairie
Presumably they could figure out something with the ESSM too though
True
shrewd pecan
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/sea-sparrow-rim-7-surface-to-air-missiles-...
yeah I know about the RIM-7 BUK modernizations
chilly osprey
I mean, it kind of depends on the version of Sea Sparrow?
Like, sure, you probably don't want to be lauching RIM-7H, but, there's a load of RIM-7M and 7P between the various NATO partners, and then on top of that also Aspide Mk.1 and Aspide 2000 that are generally compatible with any system that can launch Sea Sparrow - and was also a widely sold system that's only just starting to go out of service, freeing up considerable amounts of ammunition.
It's one of the most available SAM systems for substitutions the West has at the moment.
autumn sorrel
@manic latch ASU-85 test firing
https://twitter.com/annquann/status/1651090480875319298?s=46&t=VmBPf9V3wtTffwschA-ygw
grave ravine
I mean, it kind of depends on the version of Sea Sparrow?
Like, sure, you proba...
Yeah the reason it was done was because Ukraine was running out of Buk missiles, and we had a ton of old Sea Sparrows available, it was a something is better than nothing situation
chilly osprey
Absolutely
And a lot of the targets they have to engage honestly aren't more challenging than a lot of what they were supposed to be able to counter in the first place (sea-skimming, maneuvering AShMs).
frigid karma
While I’d love to watch you guys talk more about this the mods are probably thirsting rn
runic prairie
Sea Sparrow BPDMS is one of the jankiest SAM systems I've ever seen.
Have a guy manually illuminate the targets.
Genius stuff
frigid karma
Sea Sparrow BPDMS is one of the jankiest SAM systems I've ever seen.
Isn’t sea sparrow a ship mounted system
runic prairie
Yeah
BPDMS was basically a guy with a manually trained mount that pointed at incoming ASMS.
frigid karma
BPDMS was basically a guy with a manually trained mount that pointed at incoming...
Unless Ukraine can fit them on a patrol boat, how do they expect to use them
runic prairie
Those illuminators guided a linked, modified ASROC launcher with the Sea Sparrows
frigid karma
Just plop them on the ground somewhere?
ivory ridge
Just plop them on the ground somewhere?
yeah
frigid karma
Oh ok
ivory ridge
frigid karma
I thought since it was specified ship mounted it needed other instruments aboard a ship to also work
runic prairie
BPDMS was meant to be as simple as possible, so it could be mounted on just about any ship.
ivory ridge
like if you think about it the TEL-based modern AA systems like the S-300/400, Patriot and SAMP-T are just
ground based VLS
actually IIRC Moska's S-300s were like
literally the TELs strapped under the deck
runic prairie
Basically, though the S-300 cell isn't very adaptable to other munitions.
ivory ridge
i know there is a pic of the inside of moskva where you can see where it's mounted... cant find it
runic prairie
The Russians never did seem to get the whole multi-purpose VLS cells.
ivory ridge
fuck it here is the outside
runic prairie
They have cells for certain AA missiles. They have their U-VLS system for surface-to-surface missiles, but the two don't mix.
ivory ridge
HAHA
found it
now i know why i couldnt find it
this one is from Peter not moskva
runic prairie
Same system, also shows how the Mk-41 is far more space-efficient.
ivory ridge
i dont remember which ship it was exactly
but like
i think it was one of the type 45s
where someone posted a pic of where the FFBNW cells would go
and they put a gym there
frigid karma
Interesting
ivory ridge
The famous "Mk41 Gym" of Daring class (Type 45) destroyers. Yes, this empty space is located in front of the existing 48-cell VLS silo, behind the 4.5" Mk8 Mod1 gun and it can receive (FFBNW) 16 additional Mk41 VLS cells for Tomahawk or other land attack cruise missiles...
runic prairie
Yeah. I think they're going to put strike-length with Tomahawks in there.
ivory ridge
frigid karma
Oh, I have that same model of rowing machine
ivory ridge
runic prairie
The best way to PR on your 2k is to do it in the Tomahawk room.
runic prairie
Oh, I have that same model of rowing machine
I mean, Concept 2 is the gold standard for Rowing Machines.
subtle prawn
frigid karma
He seemed fine with the tank, though
subtle prawn
The monarch at that time would be King George VI
spring briar
@ivory ridge Sardegnan rifled (Cavalli) projectile
ivory ridge
spring briar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1010581869278011474/1100776179096629379...
Atrocious armor scheme
delicate beacon
Numbers 
runic prairie
Kinda old but they have been looking at using HIMARS as a SAM launcher for a while.
grave ravine
frigid karma
miday
also hornet's torpedo bombers committing mass banzai charge was one of the central reasons why the dive bombers got through, so give her some credit
frigid karma
YT and Enterprise's successful coordinated attack was out of pure luck more than anything
grave ravine
also hornet's torpedo bombers committing mass banzai charge was one of the centr...
Also it was YT's TBs that attacked when the DBs attacked
Hornet and Enterprise's TBs attacked about a half hour earlier
YT's airgroup was the only one experienced enough to mount a proper strike package with TBs, DBs, and Fighters all attacking together
frigid karma
ah right, nvm
ivory ridge
you would think people would be more careful whe one of the rule is literally about not doing what they are doing
black on white
grave ravine
If Hornet's DB squadron had also attacked the Japanese fleet, it likely would have been a clean sweep for the US, because the US rightfully expected the DB squadrons to each be able to individually sink a Japanese carrier outright
eternal veldt
delicate beacon
delicate beacon
Bravery and stupidity often share a host.
sullen canyon
grave ravine
Lol what
Funniest thing is that hes right they were shit allies, the Germans were arming Nationalist China
frigid karma
the part that pisses me off most about this is the "germany didn't want pearl harbor" myth
quick shard
both are warcriminals
and japan just put more weight in the burden for germany after pearl
weak spoke
I feel like a 3rd wave on Pearl Harbor there will be more planes lost for the Japanese
grave ravine
and japan just put more weight in the burden for germany after pearl
I mean I'd like to remind everyone, it wasn't that the US declared war on Germany after Pearl Harbor, Germany declared war on the US
quick shard
i think I read the wrong book
shrewd pecan
frozen kestrel
Quick question: Did HMS hood have anti-torpedo blisters or anything of the sort? Making historically accurate loadouts in game and was curious.
grave ravine
Quick question: Did HMS hood have anti-torpedo blisters or anything of the sort?...
Yeah HMS Hood did have torpedo bulges
frozen kestrel
Nice
kindred reef
oh no they're learning
grave ravine
Nice
Its interesting because a lot of later warships would lack torpedo bulges in favor of having more complex internal liquid void systems
External torpedo bulges were only really common on WW1 and early 1920s warships
deep apex
runic prairie
That is some advanced shit.
rapid junco
Do you wanna something to clean your eyes?
I was intending to post that tomorrow
But anyways
Cruiser Bahia's mascot
The dog "Netuno"
sullen canyon
I kind of find it interesting that some ships managed to have an animal mascot at times
rapid junco
I remember reading somewhere
That U-35 (the SMS one)
Had a monkey as a mascot
sullen canyon
I guess it's so that the crew have something to calm their nerves while being out at sea I guess
frozen kestrel
Yeah HMS Hood did have torpedo bulges
Aight, so is this loadout historically accurate?
I've got the blisters on, and I scoured through her actual armaments (Courtesy of the HMS Hood Association for listing them)
grave ravine
Aight, so is this loadout historically accurate?
AFAIK the Air Radar in game was not the one fitted to Hood
frozen kestrel
I'm pretty sure Hood had FCRs, so I could change it out
grave ravine
Hood had the Type 284, which again I don't believe is in game
eternal veldt
@thorny scarab Sorry for trailing off, had to shut off my phone.
Anyway, yes, there are some high ranking crew members on board Taihou. Admiral Ozawa himself, even.
As for "IJN people going down with their ships", as someone else mentioned in the other channel, it's mostly the commanding staff that do that. In fact, IIRC, Hiyou arrived just in time to see Taihou nearly beneath the surface and took on what's left of her survivors.
Curiously, Taihou's captain was determined to go down with his ship, but was knocked unconscious as the ship sank, and was rescued by a DD.
He founded the "Taihou club" later.
Point is, Taihou's crew is most certainly undertrained, and didn't even carry her actual "designated planes" because of plane shortage.
grave ravine
I'm pretty sure Hood had FCRs, so I could change it out
The 6CRH shell was used by Hood if you want to use that
eternal veldt
Compounded with the poor decision by Ozawa to plug the elevator hole and letting gas buildup even faster.
frozen kestrel
The 6CRH shell was used by Hood if you want to use that
Don't know if I've got that
grave ravine
Don't know if I've got that
Its in core shop, and you might as well get it since its a straight upgrade on the white shell for RN BBs and BCs
grave ravine
I mean its one of the better things to spend core data on, but if not that, you can always use rammer
eternal veldt
Smh, should have allowed us to put torpedoes on Hood.
frozen kestrel
I used all my core data on Enty's Dauntless and Le Mars for some reason
eternal veldt
Unplayable game.
grave ravine
I find it hilarious that the AFCT is the rainbow fire control equipment
cuz the USN Ford Mk1s were just better
frozen kestrel
Honestly, I'd like to give half of the ships their recon planes. Like, I really wanted to give Eugen her Ar-196s
grave ravine
I used all my core data on Enty's Dauntless and Le Mars for some reason
Ah, yeah the 6CRH is nice in that its both BiS equipment but also historic for RN BBs and BCs
frozen kestrel
Yep. Honestly, now I'm just saving for that and Ark Royal's Swordfish
Problem is you can only buy one
grave ravine
Just got to wait like a month to buy another
frigid karma
Smh, should have allowed us to put torpedoes on Hood.
what, and plummet her wr by 20%?
eternal veldt
Don't care. Fridge door funny.
frozen kestrel
Speaking of funny, imagine the little voices lines you'd get if the devs put Piorun in the game and you sortied her with Bismarck
eternal veldt
Piorun's stuff is mostly unfortunately a myth
frigid karma
oh boy, the piorun meme
did you know piorun's crew boarded and singlehandedly sank bismarck
it's true
grave ravine
AFAIK other destroyers got a lot closer to Bismarck than Piorun
frozen kestrel
Then again, my sense of humor is so broken that I've put Laffey into a fleet with Hiei and Hiei-chan
eternal veldt
Piorun engaged Bismarck, then 38cm shells started landing very uncomfortably close
She skittled off, and fucked up Vian'd coordinated attack
spiral cedar
The 6CRH shell was used by Hood if you want to use that
Hood never got the 6crh shells. She was sunk still using the 4crh shells since her turrets and hoists were not modernized.
grave ravine
Hood never got the 6crh shells. She was sunk still using the 4crh shells since h...
OK
frozen kestrel
I feel like your username is referencing something...
spiral cedar
Bismarck’s machinery deck armor
frozen kestrel
Ah, that makes sense
spiral cedar
Hood got hybrid shells with 6crh bodies and 4crh windscreens
That is false. 6crh and 4crh shells of the same generation had the same body—the windscreen was just shorter on the 4crh shells to fit in the older handling systems.
grave ravine
That is false. 6crh and 4crh shells of the same generation had the same body—the...
OK
eternal veldt
Feels like a lot of navweaps stuff need overhauling/rechecking lately. 
spiral cedar
6crh just refers to the overall length of the shell due to the windscreen; it says nothing about the construction of the body of the shell
spiral cedar
Feels like a lot of navweaps stuff need overhauling/rechecking lately. <:EmileSi...
The Navweaps blurb there is accurate, just misinterpreted in this case
frozen kestrel
Can we just talk about how much the RAF was just complete assholes to literally any Kriegsmarine ship the just happened upon?
grave ravine
Can we just talk about how much the RAF was just complete **assholes** to litera...
I mean they were at war, what did you expect them to do
spiral cedar
Can we just talk about how much the RAF was just complete **assholes** to litera...
Kill stealing from the RN yet again smh
grave ravine
Plus I don't think the RAF actually got all that many german warships
frozen kestrel
Wasn't the Tallboy bomb engineered specifically to screw up Tirpitz?
grave ravine
Except coastal command bombers hunting subs
spiral cedar
No
Tallboys were medium capacity bombs designed to take out hardened reinforced structures like submarine pens by creating an artificial earthquake
frozen kestrel
I beg your f*cking pardon?
spiral cedar
Their employment to take out Tirpitz was a non-optimal, but sufficient, side usage
frozen kestrel
They CREATE an artificial earthquake?
eternal veldt
A Halifax took out Gneisenau at Kiel.
grave ravine
I believe Wallis thought of taking out ships as a secondary usage of Tallboy
spiral cedar
Gneisenau is a funny case
On 13 February Gneisenau passed through the Kiel Canal and went immediately into drydock at the Deutsche Werke. Kriegsmarine standing orders prescribed that prior to a shipyard lay-up or entering drydock, a warship must discharge her stock of ammunition, but for reasons that have never been explained Gneisenau went into drydock with her shell-rooms and powder magazines full. Less than two weeks later this error would prove fatal. Presumably the original purpose of the drydocking was merely to allow a survey of the mine damage before the ship was transferred to Gotenhafen for full repairs, but Gneisenau was still in the dock during an air raid on the night of 26/27 February.
She suffered only a single hit. The bomb struck the forecastle, and, having penetrated the upper and battery decks, detonated against the armour deck. The hot explosive gases were sucked through the ventilators into the magazine below ‘A’ turret and ignited the powder in the shell cases for the ready ammunition. There followed a chain reaction: the powder went up in a great jet of flame and the excess pressure lifted up ‘A’ turret and tossed it askew. All members of the turret crew were killed. The ship’s final death toll was 112. A catastrophic explosion was only averted by immediately flooding the shell rooms and magazines. On 23 April Grossadmiral Raeder visited the ship.
This bomb abruptly ended Gneisenau’s career.
eternal veldt
I don't remember if Scheer is also RAF's handiwork.
spiral cedar
Magazine deflagration caused by a non-penetrating bomb hit
grave ravine
I don't remember if Scheer is also RAF's handiwork.
Yeah
quick shard
French frieskorp
frozen kestrel
So basically, she got ammo-racked without getting ammo-racked?
grave ravine
They ***CREATE*** an artificial earthquake?
While that was the idea, in practice they were just very large AP bombs
frigid karma
her powder detonated
that counts as an ammo rack in my opinion
although it depends on what extent you're looking at
frozen kestrel
I normally consider it an ammo-rack if a penetrating shell detonates the magazine
This... this really messes with that definition
frozen kestrel
Or Mutsu
eternal veldt
Piling hot coal ash on the bulkhead against the magazine, which was supposed to be insulated
spiral cedar
her powder detonated
Detonation technically requires a supersonic shockwave, which her situation did not produce since the magazine was doused before sufficient pressure could build up. So deflagration, in this case
eternal veldt
Spoilers: it was not insulated. Instead of cork, they put newspaper in.
frozen kestrel
I smell a Darwin Award
spiral cedar
There’s also the Russian battleship that blew up because of a hot water pipe too close to the magazine
frozen kestrel
Okay, that one just got a chuckle out of me
frozen kestrel
runic prairie
They ***CREATE*** an artificial earthquake?
That’s what a shockwave is.
remote monolith
Illegal booze party in Mikasa's mags
I love that it came right after the Victory at Tsushima too
dapper parcel
It was reported that some members of the crew had decided to hold a party in the powder magazine. In order to remove the poisonous part of some methyl alcohol (used for flares) they had stolen, they set light to it in the corridor to the powder magazine and there was a spillage that led to the explosion. The story was told to a medical orderly by a heavily injured member of the crew immediately before he died. The medical orderly initially regarded this confession as confidential and did not immediately report it to his superior. The account was therefore not considered by the investigation committee but emerged later.
Out of all places in the ship, why would you do it in the powder magazine
Now thinking about it, did her magazine climate-controlled?
spiral cedar
Not in those days
deep apex
No
alpine onyx
On that note, rip sms karlsruhe exploding in tropical weather due to unrefridgerated magazines
spring briar
That is false. 6crh and 4crh shells of the same generation had the same body—the...
Luckily AL’s 6 crh shell looks like a 4 crh
charred coral
frigid karma
katori doesn't count, spruance had to pull god knows how many strings so the iowas could get the killsteal
spiral cedar
Still a cruiser 
frigid karma
Still a cruiser <:shrug:808219162786398218>
Does Glorious getting sunk by Scharn & Gneis count, because cruiser voler?
tough quail
lol
desert agate
technically you can kill anything with a 5in gun if you try hard enough
it'll just take you a while
frigid karma
technically you can kill anything with a 5in gun if you try hard enough
Yes, but certainly not easily
In any case the context of this is he was originally defending why 2 KGVs could beat one Yamato, which, fair enough is in the realm of possibility
And then his arguments keep going off the deep end
tribal mortar
technically you can kill anything with a 5in gun if you try hard enough
Bismarck agrees
how long was she shelled? was it 2 hours or so?
by all kinds of artillery
frigid karma
Bismarck sank primarily because of a lot of 16 inch and 8 inch holes
I’d be very surprised if she had 5 inch shells in her, considering America is neutral at the time
tribal mortar
what I was trying to say that it was impressive that she managed to survive for so long even when it was under fire by much heavier calibers
frigid karma
Oh boy, this old myth
Barring a catastrophic ammo blowup the majority of big ships sink slowly
tribal mortar
it is?
frigid karma
Bismarck is not special in that regard
spiral cedar
Well, it’s sort of expected for a big ship. Shells make holes that let in air, which tends not to sink ships quickly
spring briar
what I was trying to say that it was impressive that she managed to survive for ...
Titanic had a bigger hole in her
Still took her 2 hours and 40 minutes to sink
tribal mortar
goddamn myths
desert agate
it's difficult to sink a ship without significant underwater damage
spiral cedar
Kirishima took fatal damage from less than 10 minutes of Washington firing, but she survived another 2 and a half hours before rolling over
Firing more into a sinking ship just rearranges the rubble
spiral cedar
If you want to cripple something, shoot it. If you want to sink it, get water in with a torpedo
dapper parcel
Bismarck had the distinction of an entire fleet keep pounding her as she sink
Instead of immediately leaving and letting her sink like almost any other engagement
frigid karma
If you want to cripple something, shoot it. If you want to sink it, get water in...
What if you call over SEA fishermen
Would that increase the ~sinking~~scrapping rate
desert agate
the vast majority of capital ship losses in WW2 involved torpedo hits afaik
spring briar
And if you have nicely timed shell fuzes
They will punch a nice plug out of the belt
And detonate inside
At most making a small shell sized hole
frigid karma
Even kaga just outright disappearing above the waterline still needed a torp
spiral cedar
As USN damage reports put it, surveying the various ways ships were damaged and sunk:
It is an excellent example of what may be termed a general rule for damage primarily involving flooding which has been derived from many cases of war experience, namely,
IF THE SHIP DOES NOT SINK WITHIN A VERY FEW MINUTES AFTER DAMAGE. SHE PROBABLY WILL SURVIVE FOR SEVERAL HOURS.
Loss of NORTHAMPTON by progressive flooding also parallels other war experience which has shown that,
CASES OF LOSS BY BODILY SINKAGE, PLUNGING OR CAPSIZING SEVERAL HOURS AFTER DAMAGE HAVE BEEN ENTIRELY ATTRIBUTABLE TO PROGRESSIVE FLOODING.
Since Bismarck’s magazines were flooded after her turrets and barbettes were each penetrated, she could not really explode
(Wet powder is inert)
So a quick boom was off the table
And the Brits were slow to employ torpedoes
alpine onyx
cue Rodney torpedo meme
spiral cedar
So they mostly expended a lot of shells rearranging the superstructure
spiral cedar
Gotta give the surface fleet the kill credit
alpine onyx
Shoulda let the Swordfish sink Sheffield so they don't leave empty handed
frigid karma
Since Bismarck’s magazines were flooded after her turrets and barbettes were eac...
What do tsunderes and magazines have in common?
Get them wet, and they probably won’t suddenly explode at you
frigid karma
Shoulda let the Swordfish sink Sheffield so they don't leave empty handed
No worries the French would handle that later
dapper parcel
TB run when there were like half dozen ships criscrossing around her bounds to be catastrophic
frigid karma
