history

[tough quail]

wheeze

[shut wren]

rip

[spring briar]

MBT-70 still couldn’t pen half the turret armor of a T-64

152mm apfsds

[tough quail]

also no it was out like a decade early at best

[spring briar]

Good old 70’s

[tough quail]

one of the biggest gun launcher issues was literally just putting the missile in a metal tube to not foul the barrel

which they had working on fucking t-55s

goompy

[tough quail]

admittedly it's overall a good thing it failed

even if you got everything working the mbt-70 spaced armor became obsolescent very very fast

it would age like milk in the sun

[shut wren]

uhh

where french translator at

[tough quail]

splendid

[manic latch]

Imagine if

M1 Abrams insisted on 152mm launcher

[spring briar]

“The Justice in 1909. Detail of a 194mm turret. The shape of the boat crane in the background is characteristic for the ship.”

[manic latch]

As something to carry on from Mbt 70

[shut wren]

[spring briar]

Mind if I post IJN Fuso?

[shut wren]

nah

[tough quail]

wouldnt be as enormous a disaster as the armor situation really

[tough quail]

swapping the gun to a smaller sane one is easier than unfucking the entire protection scheme

[spring briar]

IJN Fuso

[tough quail]

it should have kept the 20mm

round friend

[manic latch]

Do correct me if I type something wrong here

First composite armor: American T95

First mass produced composite armor: T-64

First APFDS: T-62's 3VBM-1

First APS: Soviet Drozd

First MBT smoothbore: T-62's 115mm

[shut wren]

for tanks or?

[manic latch]

....

Or what

[tough quail]

as opposed to the APGSDS on ships

[shut wren]

first APFSDS

[tough quail]

and the composite armor on planes

[shut wren]

nevermind

[tough quail]

there is that cool austrian APFSDS anti-material rifle tho

but thats recent

[shut wren]

QLZ-04 best anti infantry weapon

[spring briar]

Your tank (weak) vs my gun (strong)

[shut wren]

Headshot the mf on top

[manic latch]

Rifled is good for HE and HESH

Smooth is good for HEATFS and APFDS

[shut wren]

Si i know

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Oi

Whats wrong

[spring briar]

Actually HE loses some energy from rotation in rifled shells

[shut wren]

Richie is gonna shove krem into a sabot

[tough quail]

ye

the US is mainly missing a regular HE shell by just being weird

[manic latch]

But it's spinning so spreads around more when it hits

[spring briar]

…

Krem this isnt a cluster munition

Its an HE shell

[manic latch]

Yes it's an explosive

Like HESH

Spinning makes it splatter wider

[shut wren]

[spring briar]

For HESH yes

[shut wren]

Riche does it?

[spring briar]

Yes

[shut wren]

[spring briar]

For HE it will waste energy by spreading the blast more

[manic latch]

What's wrong with bigger blast

[shut wren]

is it true that APFSDS preforms worse when fired from a same cailber arty gun\

[spring briar]

Less energy in places you want to be damaged

[shut wren]

but good for anti infantry

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

No cause energy will still be wasted more

[shut wren]

[spring briar]

Rifled guns have the advantage of firing full caliber shells

So that they carry more mass

But in terms of efficiency a smoothbore wins

[shut wren]

si

[spring briar]

HESH and HE thrive from the volume of explosive so they are better in rifles guns

[shut wren]

Riche

[spring briar]

But HE loses a very small amount of effectiveness from rotational effects

[shut wren]

is it possible to dive bomb a HE or HESH shell from a plaen and break the roof

[spring briar]

Ofc

HE shells can penetrate some armor before detonating

[tough quail]

and HESH is going to do uh

nightmarish things to any tank roof in the world

or ever to likely be put in service

[manic latch]

Wish I can Hug Soyuz like how Hesh sticks to flat concrete

[spring briar]

Krem

[tough quail]

real

[spring briar]

Krem

Kremmy

[manic latch]

Izmail gang

Godspeed you magnificent boat

[tough quail]

bless

[manic latch]

WG done her refit cool

[shut wren]

Massive [CENSORED]

[tough quail]

god i hope VB gets the funny quad 37mm

[spring briar]

The zenithaux?

[manic latch]

Ye

[spring briar]

The quad bofors french cousin

With hyper rof

1200 rpm

Imagine that on a tank chassis

I am erect

[manic latch]

Remember when there was an option to upgrade your Humvee with 4 Kornets

[tough quail]

thats rad

[manic latch]

Some countries use it

[tough quail]

also i dont think im familiar with this one actually, do tell

im thinking of ganguts armored 37mm

[manic latch]

Oh damn

I thought you would know

[tough quail]

maybe i just dont know it by name

im terrible about forgetting those

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/annoyed-disappointed-mad-upset-gif-26051039

[shut wren]

MG turret Humvee better

[manic latch]

Number 223

[tough quail]

oh jesus christ is that a quad ACAD

[manic latch]

Ye

[tough quail]

sweet fucking lord the horror

[manic latch]

I expected to see her before twin 57mm in AL

[kindred reef]

is it true that german u-boats in ww2 were horribly constructed?

[spring briar]

Yes honey

[manic latch]

Who said it

[spring briar]

Yes

[tough quail]

the later u-boats got pretty dicey

[manic latch]

It depends on time ye

[tough quail]

i wonder if i could get the devs to put that quad in too

though god i dont want to pick between the two

they're both such cool mounts

[frigid karma]

what the fuck is this

[spring briar]

Warship girls r?

[tough quail]

WGR is fucking wild man

what a based game

[manic latch]

Yeah WGR

[shut wren]

tf is WGR

[spring briar]

“Based”
Twin 533 is UR
Quad 37 is SSR

[manic latch]

Pla just read

[spring briar]

Tf

[tough quail]

boat game between KC and AL

[shut wren]

uhh

depends

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

for having it at all i mean

[spring briar]

Im richie

[tough quail]

but yes

valid

[manic latch]

Indeed

[tough quail]

baaased

[spring briar]

If the 1939 push happened

[tough quail]

me in vb be like

[manic latch]

Rich how does this work

[spring briar]

Soviet 500mm gunne

[spring briar]

Quad 37 acad

[manic latch]

How long would it take me to Navalize

[spring briar]

Some years

[manic latch]

[shut wren]

soon™️

[manic latch]

Yeah I will use you as Ammo

[spring briar]

Sorry can’t comment too much

Am watching belgian quiz show

[manic latch]

Is ok

[shut wren]

you can use deez nuts as ammo

[spring briar]

Ok PLA

[shut wren]

what

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/372267338663198720/1091061460643364986/1034723981825159228-1.gif

[spring briar]

Undy when he becomes homeless

https://tenor.com/view/long-day-bored-tired-sleepy-freshly-showered-gif-15176860

(He will post a cat gif)

[ivory ridge]

so true

[spring briar]

You know it choomfy

[grave ravine]

Sheridan got used a ton in Vietnam

Just not the missile

[shrewd pecan]

Sheridan saw pretty heavy use

[frigid karma]

niihau incident is some hollywood shit

and this incident basically influenced all of the japanese internment policy in the US because three japanese americans immediately defected to the japanese side during this

[wintry moat]

What is that?

[frigid karma]

japanese pilot from Pearl Harbor crashes on an island in niihau

[wintry moat]

Yeah

they uh commit the no no?

The US I mean?

[frigid karma]

What

Just Google it

[wintry moat]

Ok

Sorry

I understand now

Damn,

It really does read like an action movie

[shut wren]

PVA troops at the battle for Triangle hill

[delicate beacon]

Battle for what!?

[shut wren]

TRIANGLE HILL

TYPO TYPO

[delicate beacon]

[shut wren]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1650299136430751745

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1949, the Truman administration canceled construction of the the first supercarrier, USS United States. Ironically, the USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75) was laid down in 1993 as the USS United States but was changed as part of the compromise to name CVN-76 for Ronald Reagan.

Twitter · Apr 24, 2023, 12:42 AM

[frigid karma]

what do i say

[jagged monolith]

The IJA earned a rather amusing nickname for themselves thanks to their relentless plunder of wood, often from houses (they dismantled the houses while people were inside).

皇軍
Huángjūn
Imperial Army

蝗軍
Huángjūn
Locust Army

[shut wren]

I though that nickname came from something else

[grave ravine]

What is the earlier convo?

[shrewd pecan]

thirsty

[kindred reef]

[shut wren]

Abrams looking thingy

[kindred reef]

to be fair, most living things do need water to survive

can't blame the poor guy

[thorny patio]

Not really history related but i thought it better here than in al-general at least:

So i understand CVs have been the dominant naval unit since ww2, however it's occured to me that they haven't been the ONLY ship to see more focus and development over the years...

I'm led to think Destroyers then are the main Frontline naval ships... But it's so jarring to think about that when my concept of an average DD is "light armor-goes fast- lots TRP and tiny main guns"

[jagged monolith]

then it should drink

[shrewd pecan]

it is

look at it

its drinking

[thorny patio]

But it's not even using it's built in STRAW XD

[shrewd pecan]

the drivers hatch is in the water

ITS DRINKING

[thorny patio]

Real talk, the engine in most tanks is in the rear right?

[shrewd pecan]

there's only a few with the engine in front

most developmental

while a couple like the Merkava have it in the front

[thorny patio]

They must have some BEEFY armor if they designed it like that

[shrewd pecan]

engine doesn't really provide much

tanks like the Merkava have to sacrifice a great amount of armor protection for a frontally mounted engine

main trade off is the ability to replenish ammo while hull down

[thorny patio]

Hull down?

[thorny patio]

Ah

Alright that makes some practical sense

[shrewd pecan]

during the Yom Kippur war Israeli tanks were running out of ammo and being unable to replenish ammo mid combat

[thorny patio]

Tho in my eyes such tanks would only be viable in hilly terrain and probably best for sniping

[shrewd pecan]

Merkava's rear door allows it to replenish ammo while still being mid down

[eternal veldt]

Yea, not quite. Destroyers have been on thr naval forefront for almost any role since WW2.

[shrewd pecan]

also that's why you just dig new fighting positions

[ivory ridge]

"bonjour"

[thorny patio]

Not quite what? As in DDs are used more than cvs?

[shrewd pecan]

CVs are the main capital asset

[ivory ridge]

hilarious facebook meme from a totally not biased person

[shrewd pecan]

they're the most likely to decide a engagement, its not like your gonna be having more CVs than destroyers

man's just jealous of tanks with actual reverse speeds

[thorny patio]

Well... One or two CVs can make or break a battle

What about frigates?

[shrewd pecan]

I wouldn't really call

WW2 era frigates proper surface combatants beyond ASW and convoy escort duty

[thorny patio]

But what about them as they are today?

Has their role changed since then?

[shrewd pecan]

massively

[thorny patio]

I'm legit curious about this i wann aleeeearn

[shrewd pecan]

considering we have everything from the dumpster fire Baden's that somehow weigh up to 7.2k tons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden-Württemberg-class_frigate
to the actually good air defense frigates such as the FREMMs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FREMM_multipurpose_frigate

[thorny patio]

Hot damn the FREMM looks seggsy

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation-class_frigate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Álvaro_de_Bazán-class_frigate

most navies these days operate primarily guided missile frigates

[thorny patio]

But wait, how does a modern frigates role differ from modern DD role?

[shrewd pecan]

for most navies they cover the same role

in terms of navies like the USN

Frigates primarily function as escorts

they're able to provide both ASW and anti aircraft capabilities to the fleet

with ships like the OHPs having a rather long service history with a reputation for being able to take a beating

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry-class_frigate#Notable_combat_actions

[thorny patio]

Well I've seen the "frigates are just damage sponges" so that checks out

"He look at that frigate! He's doing his job" says as said frigate is on fire and dying

Wait... So frigates sound just like what we think of as heavy/light cruisers?

[shrewd pecan]

its hard to really put them into traditional classifications

[ivory ridge]

i wouldnt really say that most they cover the same role in most navies

[shrewd pecan]

in the USN they serve primarily as escorts tho are intended to operate in conjunction with larger vessels

[ivory ridge]

in most of the big navies the frigates will be mostly ASW

[shrewd pecan]

while in most European navies

they're the main surface combatant

[ivory ridge]

in the japanese navy the "frigates", aka the non-aegis "destroyers" are ASW vessels

with some self defence

[eternal veldt]

Sorry, something came up. What I wanted to say was that DD development is also equally emphasised upon nowadays, as are CVs.

[thorny patio]

I'd imagine Japan's navy is going to be set up a smidge different from everyone else considering they have to think in terms of defending ONLY

[eternal veldt]

Mostly since their displacement bloated massively.

[thorny patio]

Well... Kinda

[shrewd pecan]

doesn't really help that Japan classifies most of their frigate sized vessels as destroyers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asahi-class_destroyer

[ivory ridge]

not exactly

they dont

not officially

[eternal veldt]

An Arleigh Burke now weighs what? 10k tons?

[shrewd pecan]

yes

[ivory ridge]

idk how many times i posted this

but

いずも型護衛艦, Izumo-gata Goeikan, the STOVL carriers
ひゅうが型護衛艦, Hyūga-gata Goeikan , the helicopter carriers
まや型護衛艦, Maya-gata Goeikan, the guided missile destroyers
あさひ型護衛艦, Asahi-gata Goeikan, the escort destroyers
もがみ型護衛艦, Mogami-gata Goeikan, the new frigates
あぶくま型護衛艦 Abukuma-gata Goeikan, the older destroyer escorts

different from what they used in ww2 for the destroyers
秋月型駆逐艦, Akizuki-gata Kuchikukan, for example

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogami-class_frigate

[eternal veldt]

Miles away from the 2,500 tonners we had back in WW2.

[ivory ridge]

Goeikan means escort vessel

not destroyer

[shrewd pecan]

ah

[eternal veldt]

And yea, I was about to say Frigates are now back on the centre stage, a bit closer to the "DD" we had back in WW2.

[thorny patio]

Arleigh Burke's are still in service??? Aren't they all old AF?

[shrewd pecan]

No

new burkes are still being built

[eternal veldt]

Flight 3As are just recently laid down and launched, I believe .

Flight Is are old, yes.

[shrewd pecan]

tho Burke herself is about 32 years old

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Arleigh_Burke

[tough quail]

USN has trouble building anything actually new due to the usual congress meddling

[shrewd pecan]

ah

[thorny patio]

Jesus i remember reading about the Burke's when i was still in elementary. And they're still building more? Reminds me of how the US milked the ESSEX Cvs

[shrewd pecan]

they gave Burke a Searam

[eternal veldt]

If the design is great, there is no need to change it.

[thorny patio]

True

[shrewd pecan]

there reaching the end of their growth room

[eternal veldt]

I don't remember who said it, there were a couple designs based on a Brooklyn hull quite recently.

[thorny patio]

But u can always improve as tech improves

[tough quail]

there's.. a fair bit of reason to change it

[shrewd pecan]

but it should be able to hold over the USN until DDG(X)s start showing up

[thorny patio]

And eventually, were going to be stuck with a shit ton of outdated ships

[eternal veldt]

Sure, a new platform is needed at this stage, but of course time is needed to develop it

[tough quail]

blame Congress' obsession with the ten carrier fleet basically

[eternal veldt]

It's not entirely the same, but basically, think the Sherman

And it's 999 variants

[tough quail]

that one really isn't comparable at all

the Sherman was rather short lived even

[eternal veldt]

Is it obsolete now? Yes. Was it highly modified and constantly modified? Also yes.

[thorny patio]

I actually like the Burkes design overall, i just always imagined we'd move on as tech in recent years has exploded in progress

[shrewd pecan]

its long lifespan came from foreign users

even then it was obsolete even with the M51s

[tough quail]

yeah

[unborn wyvern]

I was going through my Grandpa's stuff and found these. US Navy binoculars from WW2

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of Burke

[tough quail]

as soon as the Pershing's were rolling that was the death knell for US Sherman development

[shrewd pecan]

her designs still more than relevant

[eternal veldt]

Fair enough, was thinking more about the overall lifespan, not just US use.

[shrewd pecan]

issue is just her replacement taking forever

[eternal veldt]

Pershing took quite some time if I recall.

[thorny patio]

Do u think the USN will give any Burke's to museums?

[unborn wyvern]

He wasn't even old enough to serve in WW2 but served post-war in the British Army and later the merchant marine. Not sure where he got them from but he loved the sea

[eternal veldt]

And even then, had a couple issues until M46 hammered it out.

[ivory ridge]

you dont mean the CGX on the wooster hull right?

[eternal veldt]

I think that's it.

[tough quail]

the m46s were still kind of shit but that's another topic

[eternal veldt]

They look cool. Can we agree on that?

[runic prairie]

With SPY-6 being integrated on Flight III and backfitted to Flight IIA they have a good deal of life left in them.

[tough quail]

oh absolutely

i take no pleasure speaking ill about the pattons

[eternal veldt]

That Skirt and Torsion is seggs

[tough quail]

outside of them being named patton

but the development story is tragic

[eternal veldt]

But M48...eeeeh

[tough quail]

alright now its time to fight

[eternal veldt]

Too rotund for me

T95EX, sure

[tough quail]

i love Egg Lord

[eternal veldt]

T-55, also great

[tough quail]

alright, valid

[eternal veldt]

Just not so sure on M48 with that muzzle brake

[tough quail]

its mostly the hull i like

its Neat

[unborn wyvern]

What's funny is the OHP replacement is as big as a Burke and the Burke replacement is the size of a Ticonderoga

[thorny patio]

The Burke's to me: "ship wants to die but can't because he's too cool"

[tough quail]

its because the navy has no budget to replace it

[ivory ridge]

OHP replacement you mean the constellation?

[unborn wyvern]

Are we going to get a Tico replacement the size of a heavy cruiser??? 🤔

[ivory ridge]

[unborn wyvern]

Yeah

[tough quail]

the strict adherence to the ten carrier fleet and sloppy project spending basically hamstrings them

congress wont let them scale back to 8 or 9 carriers and their programs they do run turn into shitshows

[eternal veldt]

Honestly, DDs now are already kinda cruisers

[ivory ridge]

it's like 7.3k tons

not really the size of a burke

[eternal veldt]

10k tons, treaty compliant /s

[tough quail]

like lets not get it twisted

[unborn wyvern]

Woah woah woah, are you saying budget cuts... good?

[tough quail]

its no veneration for the arleigh burke or anything

the navy wants to be done with them a decade ago

they just cant

[unborn wyvern]

Disgraceful kill him to death from shooting him in the crotch 2000 times with a paintball gun

[eternal veldt]

US naval budget cuts and hamstringing resulted in the Standard BBs, therefore budget cuts good

[tough quail]

it also forces them to cornet cut all over the place

[unborn wyvern]

Also yeah the Fords have spare space for when they put lasers and shit on them where Burkes are out of space

[tough quail]

like the first batches of virginias being made out of shitty cheapo titanium

or the virginias kind of existing period as much as i like them

or the fact they cant invest in any infrastructure and US shipbuilding is basically being smothered in the crib

[shrewd pecan]

sometimes I just wonder

how the fuck the navy keeps putting itself into this position of being fucked over by congress then wasting their little spare funding on stupid procurement and budget choices

[tough quail]

like god forbid a war starts and newport news gets flattened

the usn just kind of

fucking

dies

[shrewd pecan]

such as wasting their entire aviation development budget on the A-12 for the entirety of the 90s

or the LCS program that they have to keep alive so the shipyards don't die

so there ending up with a bunch of hulls

they don't have the numbers to crew

[tough quail]

at this point im kind of of the opinion they should just

[thorny patio]

If war breaks out, i imagine the US will go into overdrive

[runic prairie]

To get to your original question the roles they fill differ between navies.

To the U.S. a CV is their primary offensive weapon. It’s why most U.S. surface combatants have few ASMs (though their SAMs can pull double duty).

The destroyer and cruiser are meant primarily as escorts to the CV. Cold War doctrine was one nuclear CG per CV (a practice that can actually date back to aspirations of assigning one Atlanta or Juneau per CV in WWII)

With the proliferation of Aegis among the fleet destroyers (and for a time the Tico was considered a destroyer) became the primary defensive assets.

Frigates were viewed as escort and ASW vessels while DDGs and CGs were for air warfare.

They operate as a system, each covering different roles to differ capacities.

[tough quail]

give the entirety of the army's budget to infrastructure building

[runic prairie]

Wars where that might be an issue would be too short for it to really matter.

[tough quail]

they're doing nothing of actual value with it while the actual important service branch is committing die of old age

[shrewd pecan]

like I'm thinking the navy needs more funding

but at the same time

[tough quail]

they need to actually use it

its a twofold issue

[shrewd pecan]

I'm expecting them to just dump it all into one fucking program that fails or produces a medicore platform

[tough quail]

they dont have the budget they require and when they get their budget they spend it like they just got done slamming down a gallon of glue

[shrewd pecan]

navy lucked out with the Burke since that program worked out and gave them a world class destroyer that everyone copied

[tough quail]

i mean the virginias are great

they've just also fucked up so bad there's one place on earth to properly service and build them now

[runic prairie]

Under budget and ahead of schedule

[tough quail]

see above

[shrewd pecan]

I mean submarine procurement has its time to time issues but it usually goes down fine

[tough quail]

the platform itself is fantastic

the procurement and the infrastructure is depressing and awful

[shrewd pecan]

🤨 generally the LCS program had potential and they smothered it and keep procuring more of the damn things despite it already being a dead horse

[tough quail]

and now its gone so badly i think i could convince the usn to give me one for $200

[runic prairie]

They should’ve picked one design, taken the STANFLEX concept and done that.

[tough quail]

there's also the matter of the US doing the smart thing and buying FREMMS

except they need to complicate it by making them shittier

[shrewd pecan]

should of just double downed with the Independence and made a flex hull version with actual VLS cells to make them useful post module cuts

I mean they fucked themselves over

by choosing the shipyard in Wisconsin

[runic prairie]

I think there’s room to fit in the bow but weight issues mean it was never utilized.

Probably a single Mk-41 unit.

[thorny patio]

If your implying nukes, i don't think they have any place in a discussion about conventional warfare...

If someone throws nukes, were all dead, end of discussion.

[tough quail]

either gut the army budget or slash two carriers and put all those funds directly to infrastructure

and literally nothing else before thats done and dusted

[shrewd pecan]

🤨 generally we could of had one of the best anti submarine and anti mine platforms and now its been left to rot

in terms of just navy infrastructure issues

its hard to say since I don't really think gutting the army is the best idea

[runic prairie]

Well yes but no. I’m talking about the pace of an extreme intensity conflict.

Even if conventional you have to consider the political aspect, which nukes are a part of.

Hypothetical “Long wars” with the Soviet Union were measured in a couple months.

With how long it takes to build ships you could maybe get a couple out of mothball within a massive conflict.

[tough quail]

also the us can't go into "overdrive" period

like

the infrastructure literally doesnt exist

they can't do the ww2 thing even if a protracted war started

[shrewd pecan]

its a matter of rebuilding infrastructure that decayed or starting anew

https://www.cbo.gov/force-structure-tool

[runic prairie]

Compared to WWII the production facilities have become incredibly specialized.

You can’t build a SPY-6 radar anywhere.

[thorny patio]

Oof

[tough quail]

its both

incredibly specialized and most of these yards plainly dont exist

[shrewd pecan]

a lot of yards died post cold war

[tough quail]

like i said, if norfolk gets clapped somehow the usn would uh

be dead on its feet

[runic prairie]

They’d go nuclear.

[tough quail]

that's not the point

[runic prairie]

It’s escalation dominance.

It’s how extreme intensity wars are likely to be fought.

[shrewd pecan]

tho

[thorny patio]

How are we somehow spending all the moneys on our military but at the same time not spending money on military infrastructure?

[shrewd pecan]

here's the thing

we don't spend all of the money on our military

[tough quail]

dumb choices and the revolving door nature of our government

[shrewd pecan]

when you actually adjust for spending as ratio to GDP

its comparable to most other nations

we spend the most because we have the biggest economy on earth

[thorny patio]

WOW SO IVED BEEN LIED TO XD

[runic prairie]

Also personnel are very expensive, especially with U.S. rates.

[tough quail]

the US is still near the top in % GDP spent

[thorny patio]

Doesn't help that inflation is absolutely tanking the value of the dollar

[runic prairie]

Dollar’s doing better than a lot of other currencies.

[shrewd pecan]

on top of that you have to factor in due to the Federal nature of the United States a lot of spending is offloaded onto the states that would be central government spending in other nations

[tough quail]

a strong dollar is not a good thing for how the US economy works fwiw

[frigid karma]

what did i miss

[runic prairie]

What didn’t you miss?

[deep apex]

This

That is what you missed

[tough quail]

talking about the decrepit hulk of the arleigh burkes and why the usn has no infrastructure

[thorny patio]

Anyways, I'll be back in like... 45-ish minutes?

[tough quail]

anyway blame reagan and bush

[shrewd pecan]

3.2%

[frigid karma]

muh

iowa

[runic prairie]

I do that already.

[tough quail]

iowa is just the tip of the ice berg

[frigid karma]

The more you learn about american history

[tough quail]

reagan basically fisted the entire world economy

[frigid karma]

the more you can connect literally anything wrong in modern society to reagan

the consequences of electing a californian to the white house

[shrewd pecan]

my blame range goes all the way from Nixon, skips Carter goes to Reagan to Bush to Clinton then to george bush again

[frigid karma]

😔

[tough quail]

you could argue the man did more damage to the world than the entirety of the ussr

which is fucking hilarious

[frigid karma]

carter is a gigachad honestly

too bad everyone blames him for opec using the testicular torsion beam on the us

[runic prairie]

I mean Carter was a good man but also a bad president.

[frigid karma]

(which was a thing since nixon)

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

Carter tried to improve the country

then got fucked over by a mixture of international pressures and events out of his control

[runic prairie]

Fair

[tough quail]

honestly on a larger scale a lot of the problems does really boil down to the revolving door government

[shrewd pecan]

if it wasn't for the entire oil situation its likely he would of been remembered much better

[tough quail]

the US' entire political system is uh

Shit

[shrewd pecan]

revolving door has its own trade offs and benefits

[tough quail]

especially for the last two decades

[frigid karma]

eh, i can imagine there are worse possibilities to

[tough quail]

holy fucking shit its so bad

[frigid karma]

8 year terms

[shrewd pecan]

main issue is just people don't like to actually look at context or look back at recent history

[frigid karma]

the problem is the combination of revolving door and

2 week memory spans in the public

if even that

[tough quail]

atm US politics largely boils down to "spite"

[frigid karma]

it's always been that

[tough quail]

its comedically aggressive lately

but valid

[frigid karma]

Reminder that people in the 60s are like

well

yeah

at least they have to pretend to be not open about it these days

[runic prairie]

It’s not the best system but it has its moments.

[frigid karma]

the whole reason any civil rights bills were passed was because Johnson had to tie all of the southern senators up in his bathroom and intimidate him with his lil' Johnson

[tough quail]

but yeah its kind of hard to keep things running smoothly when every four-eight years a new guy comes in hell bent to kick down the sandcastle of the last guy

[shrewd pecan]

eh its something where despite everything happening you can see signs things are slowly getting better

[tough quail]

and upends basically every focu

[shrewd pecan]

even if it doesn't seem like it

[frigid karma]

President Johnson did not mess around. He was constantly on the telephone, making dozens of calls every day, and was known for using more than one phone at a time. Apparently he wanted to get some serious talking done, because nowhere was off limits for conversation. Rather than put a conversation on hold, he would have reporters and aides follow him into the bathroom where the dialogue was supposed to continue. Needless to say this often inspired discomfort.

Johnson is reported to have had conversations while exposing his genitals, urinating in the sink, and sitting on the toilet, but as far as the observers could tell, it never caused him any embarrassment. Some presume that his actions stemmed from a desire to show his power and to put others in an awkward position so that he could better control the conversation. Possibly he simply didn’t want to stop talking.

[tough quail]

mixed in nicely with extremely subdivided tribalism

[unborn wyvern]

The B in LBJ stands for "BIG DICK"

[frigid karma]

Big Dick, Lil' Johnson

[tough quail]

it doesn't help the cold war involved the US deciding that they needed to be the exact opposite of everything soviet

including the uh

"collectivist" part

[frigid karma]

but yea, us politics has always and will always be turbofucked

the founding fathers kind of

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

[frigid karma]

intended for that to be the case

[unborn wyvern]

LBJ gave us High Speed Rail in america

Thank you LBJ

[shrewd pecan]

its not really like the anti collectivist part was unique to the cold war era

[tough quail]

oh god dont bring up trains

[runic prairie]

Seeing that only hurts me more.

[tough quail]

before we get another spon-maka boxing match

[runic prairie]

Trains are very based

[shrewd pecan]

nationalize the US rail industry

[deep apex]

Oh god

[unborn wyvern]

It was a peice of shit but it could go like fucking 120kmh

[deep apex]

[shrewd pecan]

down with UNION PACIFIC!

[deep apex]

help

[unborn wyvern]

Except the PRR/Penn Central tracks were so shit they couldn't go 120kmh

[runic prairie]

I want to open more inland waterways as well.

[tough quail]

its always been like that but the cold war REALLY hammered it deep into US cultural identity

[frigid karma]

toot toot

[shrewd pecan]

I mean even during the coldwar

[runic prairie]

Make the entire Columbia River Navigable.

[frigid karma]

you see, it's kinda ironic

[shrewd pecan]

you had some successes with LBJ's great society and other political movements

[frigid karma]

because there was all that hippy and counterculture movement stuff in the 60s

and then

counter counter culture!

[deep apex]

Jesus Christ and his hood this is turning more sour than that expired ration I ate for shits and giggles

[tough quail]

yeah sure there were bright spots

[unborn wyvern]

BACK THE BLUE
BACK THE BLUE

[runic prairie]

Were they Chinese MREs?

[shrewd pecan]

CONRAIL! CONRAIL!

[frigid karma]

le rich fuck in california also goes fuck the government

and elects reagan

[deep apex]

Nah. Ur mom lul gottem

[tough quail]

but overall the USSR existing basically cursed the US into cutting off the nose to spite the face

because fucking commies and DoNt TrEaD oN mE

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

[runic prairie]

Friedrich de Grosse is a figment of your schizophrenia.

[frigid karma]

eh

well, before ww2

isolationist america was also

uh

[shrewd pecan]

its not really like a lot of the conservative reactionary movements during the cold war were unique to the US

[frigid karma]

yeah

[deep apex]

Massive

[frigid karma]

stupid be stupid, you can't fix it

[tough quail]

but its not "during the cold war"

it persisted

it entrenced

[shrewd pecan]

opposition to the Soviet Union while it was a factor isn't really the sole cause

[tough quail]

it became the national identity

[frigid karma]

Also, this kinda glosses over detente?

like

people in the US were cheering gorby when he came to manhattan

[deep apex]

Good Lord where are the

[frigid karma]

spoon, this is >20yr ago

[wintry moat]

Seeing Dr. Seuss anti Nazi Propaganda is weird

[shrewd pecan]

since those reactionary movements were a global thing that persisted into the 90s in other countries as well

[frigid karma]

we're good

[tough quail]

spoon this is incredibly obnoxious

[unborn wyvern]

Dr Seuss when racism towards African american and antisemitism : 😠

Dr Seuss when racism towards Japanese Americans: 😀

[tough quail]

real

[deep apex]

Fine I'll just leave

[frigid karma]

Interesting fact about the US burning japanese cars in detroit

the Chinese also did

[unborn wyvern]

Nonsense! I was just about to start talking about conrail again

[frigid karma]

the US, in an attempt to one-up the competition, proceeded to burn Chinese people!

(they actually beat him to death with a bat)

Japan laughed, sold more cars to both, and then economically collapsed in the 90s

[unborn wyvern]

This picture unironically makes me sad

[frigid karma]

sounds like a 3 stooges plot

[runic prairie]

RIP

[deep apex]

I was actually going to post a lake freighter video but apparently people were already having a battle or whatever.

[runic prairie]

✊

[tough quail]

and now the US makes two good cars instead of one

[frigid karma]

Speaking about trains

[unborn wyvern]

Then they became part of Norfuck Southern and Crash Smash Xplode

[runic prairie]

Please. I love navigable waterways.

[frigid karma]

I loved reading about redditors bitching "the media is covering this up! no one in msm is covering this" about east palestine

and the comments are under a post with the link to

the NYT

[deep apex]

https://youtu.be/En03sKGZU8g

[frigid karma]

https://tenor.com/view/jinx-the-cat-jinx-jinx-cat-cat-computer-gif-25786466

[tough quail]

saved

[runic prairie]

Bless

[frigid karma]

stole this from undie lol

[tough quail]

thats a good one

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-suspicious-stare-reaction-gif-gif-26297876

[frigid karma]

the stream is tomorrow at 5

what do yall wanna cope about

we know there's something new, and something about "alpha"

[unborn wyvern]

"Why is the media not talking about this???"

My brother in christ, how did
you find out about it

[deep apex]

https://youtu.be/BuP9Lfbqx3U

The Witch of November

[frigid karma]

oh, btw undie

you know about the abrams vismod thing in wt?

[ivory ridge]

the media always hides everything
until they are not, then they are lying
until they are not, then they are biased
or smth, im not a conspiracy theorist

[unborn wyvern]

Or talking about how it's a conspiracy when railroaders have been talking about derailments for years but nobody has been listening

Only until the horse (not you @tough quail ) fucks it all up and released a massive fart cloud over Ohio did people notice and then "its a conspiracy!"

[tough quail]

the deepest i went into the weird train conspiracy hole

was they they kept doing the stupid balloon shoot downs to pull attention away from it

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/370059367946518528/1099390260670111824/ftalll2ttbva1.png

[tough quail]

not that it was some actual disaster or anything, just because it was embarrassing

[frigid karma]

seeing the highly positive response to that update

[ivory ridge]

you literally cant change my mind about the fact this was the first devblog just because of the ERA memes

[frigid karma]

they're doing it again with the most popular nation

[tough quail]

alright get in the fucking jet so people stop bitching at us about bumfuck nowhere ohio

[frigid karma]

germany

panzer iv h vismod, at 3.7

It's a panzer iv disguising itself as a leopard

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/jinx-the-cat-jinx-jinx-cat-cat-computer-gif-25786466

[manic latch]

Why repost

[frigid karma]

it funny\

[tough quail]

which im like

99% certain thats exactly what was going on

[frigid karma]

the balloon stuff was funny tho

i made a meme off of it

[tough quail]

because as soon as people stopped giving a shit about the train they stopped doing the balloon stunts

[runic prairie]

The fucking moronic takes are all I remember.

[tough quail]

the takes on social media about both made me realize

man

maybe oppressive totalitarianism isnt that bad an idea

[frigid karma]

man has not been on weibo

in ever

[shrewd pecan]

no because that just descends into the people making such conspiracy theories being in even more positions of power

[tough quail]

the like one weibo comment i've ever seen was like

[runic prairie]

There was some dipshit on Reddit that managed to convince thousands of people that a balloon 60,000 feet in the air was carrying ground penetrating radar.

Because ground penetrating radar famously works from high altitude.

[tough quail]

"the great firewall is for your protection, not ours. you haven't yet seen the actual meaning of cyberbullying" to some western dude

and that was funny as fuck

[unborn wyvern]

He's not immune to propaganda

[runic prairie]

Oh but it gets better. Supposedly this was to find ICBM silos or something.

Because you can’t see our ICBM silos from fucking Google Earth.

I fucking hate the average understanding of nuclear strategy.

[unborn wyvern]

Well you can't see inside them and from what I heard the previous administration had a informal agreement that they let them balloon in exchange for allowing for information exchange if you know what I mean

[frigid karma]

the balloon was an attack by the bloons administration

[runic prairie]

GPR isn’t going to see inside them.

[ivory ridge]

the average war understander™️ is fucking hilarious on social media

looks at michael tracey

👁️

[unborn wyvern]

I don't know enough go make a comment but i do know the shitposts were fantastic

[runic prairie]

And to even work on soft ground it would need to be maybe ten feet above it.

Maximum.

[frigid karma]

i mean what even is the point of targeting ICBMs on land?

even you develop a magical stealth icbm to knock them all out first

subs exist

[unborn wyvern]

Taking notes for your Sims 4 house build of course

[runic prairie]

Half the point of Silos is to absorb nuclear hits.

It’s why China is building so many.

The missile fields are meant to be targets.

[unborn wyvern]

The point of MAD is not to target silos so that's kinda pointless

[runic prairie]

Most of the reason is because you might get some of the missiles.

[runic prairie]

Counterforce versus countervalue

There’s scenarios where you hit them and scenarios where you don’t.

[unborn wyvern]

True

[runic prairie]

China likely doesn’t target them because their arsenal is too small.

But Russia likely does.

[unborn wyvern]

If an enemy wanted to take out their nuclear arsenal then the more silos the better, more things for the enemy to worry about

[runic prairie]

That’s what China’s doing. Build a ton of silos and only fill some of them, forcing disproportionate targeting.

The U.S. probably has the most capable Counterforce arsenal in the world since the Tridents on the Ohios can target hardened silos with the W88 warhead reaching a 99% PK on one.

U.S. nuclear doctrine is meant to “win” a nuclear war (whether you can actually win one is not the point, the U.S. arsenal is geared to attack hostile nuclear arsenals).

[manic latch]

Wasn't that the deal of star wars

[runic prairie]

Partially

[manic latch]

Winning the nuclear war

Hmm

[runic prairie]

It was also because of Reagan’s personal beliefs.

Part of it was he viewed that the U.S. could achieve a conventional advantage over the USSR.

And he also disliked nukes in general.

[manic latch]

Reagan: This space weapon is defensive and will stop your nukes

Ussr: what prevents you using it as a weapon

Reagan: hmmm

[thorny patio]

Holy Kashino guys i was gone for less than an hour XD

[runic prairie]

My opinions on Reagan’s intelligence are better left unsaid.

While I do have personal connections in my family to the Star Wars program, I view it as a pretty stupid move.

Undermining deterrence makes the game theory calculation all the more unstable.

[manic latch]

Reagan was lucky that Soviets trusted US technology alot

So while %50 of Soviet scientists said such lasers are too advanced to be reality, rest of scientists and mostly government thought they can be real

[runic prairie]

I mean the reverse is also true.

See MiG-25

[humble mulch]

wasnt

[manic latch]

Mig 25 was an interceptor lol its Us's fault to assume she was a fighter

[humble mulch]

Reagan also the one who said hed tag team on aliens with the soviets

[unborn wyvern]

YES

[runic prairie]

Additionally the U.S. way overestimated the ABM defenses around Moscow.

[manic latch]

Wasn't that CIA

[humble mulch]

I thought thats why he wanted the star wars program thing

[unborn wyvern]

He ask Gorbachev if they would side with the US if aliens ever attacked and Gorbachev said he would

[runic prairie]

Purging the xenos scum with a comrade.

[humble mulch]

Yeah fuck Xenos

[unborn wyvern]

XCOM if it was epic

[manic latch]

The moment US underestimated Soviet technology was the moment they lost a U-2 so likely why they never put a SR-71 inside Soviet borders irrc

[runic prairie]

SR-71 was never meant for overflight.

It used side-looking radars, ELINT, and Cameras.

[manic latch]

Makes sense

[deep apex]

https://youtu.be/V5tbah19qo8

[runic prairie]

The A-12 (similar to SR-71) was used for overflights

It’s pretty hard to tell the two apart but they did have vastly different roles.

[manic latch]

Although originally designed to succeed the U-2 overflying the Soviet Union and Cuba, the A-12 was never used for either objective. After a U-2 was shot down in May 1960, the Soviet Union was considered too dangerous to overfly except in an emergency (and overflights were no longer necessary

Ah

Man wish they tried to make A-12 fly over Soviet Union

Really wonder the result

[runic prairie]

missile launch

accelerates

Kinematics is a bitch.

[thorny patio]

Flying spy/recon jets over Russia doesn't seem like something anyone should just do on a whim

[deep apex]

Apparently almost anyone Scandinavian (specifically Finnish, or Swedish origin) knows of someone who was here. Anyone here with such origins that can confirm it?

I've read many books and statements online that state almost every family in the region knew of someone who was a survivor or perished

[runic prairie]

You might be able to get it with an ABM missile but I don’t think much else could get something going at Mach 3 at 85,000 feet.

During that day and age.

[dapper parcel]

It isn't that much of a stretch. The probability of anyone having something like three degrees of separation or less to at least one of the 800+ victims is almost 100%

[deep apex]

like three degrees of separation or less to at least one of the 800+ victims is almost 100%

What do you mean by degrees of separation?

[eternal veldt]

Everyone is connected to each other at mostly 3 people's length of connection

[deep apex]

As in people who know a someone who knows a someone?

[eternal veldt]

The common linguistic theory is that everyone has at most six degrees of separation

[thorn trail]

yes

[eternal veldt]

Yes

[thorn trail]

apparently it's now down to three

[deep apex]

Ah okay. I just hadn't heard it described like that

In terms of wording

[eternal veldt]

For example, I myself is connected to a a high ranking government official in just two connections

(for my safety, I shall not reveal more)

[eternal veldt]

Thanks to the internet, I bet.

[thorn trail]

probably

I only knew about the six degrees of separation due to that one tv show

the one where 2 hosts try to connect 2 things in 6 degrees of separation

[frigid karma]

sentinelese

*almost everyone

[deep apex]

Also worth pointing out the amount of alarms you can hear when Estonia is heard on the radio

[eternal veldt]

Well, yes and no, you may be associated with someone who had studied the sentinelese, and therefore, be connected with them

I guess the keyword here is know or not

[frigid karma]

oh, "connected"

that's a lot clearer, yeah

but of course the definition of 'associated' or connected' can get pretty vague

[eternal veldt]

There's a reason why its a framework/theory only, and not a formula

[jagged monolith]

Difficult

there are massive bottlenecks

and the one to last interact with them is 800% dead

It’s like some kind of fucked up version of the Erdos number.

[thorn trail]

In the Cold War most B-52s were based in the midwest right?

[jagged monolith]

I have not seen this anywhere.

If anything it is likely greater; the original 6 is based on the US.

[thorn trail]

specifically which bases were most of the B-52s based

[runic prairie]

Fairchild AFB in Spokane Washington had a lot of B-52s.

Barksdale still has them.

[thorn trail]

What's the nearest commercial airport to Barksdale

[dapper parcel]

I pick three because original question was about the population of a region's relation to disaster that affect mostly populations of that regions, which mostly culturally related in the first place
Even if you're limiting it to familiar relations, three is about right

[runic prairie]

Shreveport Regional.

Under 10 miles away

[thorn trail]

Hmm lemme check if my KSP mod has SHV as an airport here

I wanna see how far my bombers can reach flying from where SAC was supposed to be based from

[runic prairie]

Spokane International is pretty close to Fairchild

Less than 5 miles away.

[strong plank]

Star Wars was meant to be a complete defense against a nuclear strike on the US

[runic prairie]

Minot International is also less than 10 miles away from Minot AFB.

[thorn trail]

Nope this mod doesn't have SHV as an airport

any other larger well know airport close to Barksdale?

[frigid karma]

I am very concerned

I am very very concerned

[runic prairie]

Try Spokane

[strong plank]

while the US does have the means to intercept a nuclear ballistic missile strike, it's only really rated to handle a handful of missiles

[thorn trail]

I'm asking due to KSP. I have the Real life Solar System mod and I'm wondering how far my planes can reach from irl bases the B-52s were supposed to be based on

[runic prairie]

There’s nothing else really close to Barksdale

[strong plank]

also that's not really true

well sorta

[runic prairie]

Like I said in the convo above it really depends.

[strong plank]

you can undermine MAD if you can strike first and eliminate the target's nuclear weapons

[unborn wyvern]

There were B-52s based in upstate New York near Albany?

[strong plank]

a bunch of IR scholars freaked out in the early 2000s bc they realized that at that point, the US basically had that capability

[runic prairie]

“Super Fuzes” go brrrrrr

https://thebulletin.org/2017/03/how-us-nuclear-force-modernization-is-undermining-strategic-stability-the-burst-height-compensating-super-fuze/amp/

Good read on the topic

[strong plank]

the one my prof had the class read was this https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/end-mad-nuclear-dimension-us-primacy

[runic prairie]

Plattsburgh

[strong plank]

ah 2006, a simpler time

[unborn wyvern]

Right. @thorn trail looking up stuff about pre-1991 Strategic air command would get results

B-52s are based mostly out of Louisiana, North Dakota, Guam, Florida and California iirc but there was many more bases during the cold War that were closed down after the fall of the soviet union

[desert agate]

Defence Strategic Review dropped

very interesting just read it

ADF to see a fundamental restructuring over the next decade, with some urgent restructuring to occur in the next 2 years, which are a danger period for the Indo-Pacific

[dapper parcel]

I wish certain countries in the region also come into sense and start bolstering their naval and air defense capability instead of only the armies

[desert agate]

everyone is going to focus on ADFs desires to acquire new capabilities but I think that that's missing the point

[desert agate]

who?

New Zealand?

[dapper parcel]

Nah, the "barrier"

[desert agate]

indonesia?

[strong plank]

No B-21s though, which is a little unfortunate

[jagged monolith]

It was never going to happen.

So not much of a loss.

[desert agate]

the biggest two recommendations made by the review are thus
firstly a shift away from the Defence of Australia doctrine and towards a strategy of National Defence, with capabilities that reinforce this doctrinal shift, this is Australias largest doctrinal shift since the 1976 white paper
secondly ADF will shift away from being a balanced force towards being an integrated force, meaning ADF intends to reduce or lose some general capabilities which ADF does not consider necessary for the National Defence strategy

[desert agate]

nuclear submarines are a far better investment

[jagged monolith]

our whitepapers are boring

[strong plank]

I’m not familiar with the Australian side, but the US is pretty open to selling

[jagged monolith]

just “we will procure high-effectiveness hyunmoo missile” over and over

We know you’re procuring high-effectiveness Hyunmoo missiles

[desert agate]

ADF will also stop producing white papers and begin publishing National Defence Strategy on a biennial basis

[jagged monolith]

now explain why the TEL has 10 axles

[dapper parcel]

Stop calling unrelated missiles "hyunmoo" as a start

[strong plank]

Fair enough

Oh it’s a comprehensive review isn’t it

[desert agate]

yes

[strong plank]

I’m too used to reading it done service by service

[jagged monolith]

no

We will call everything Hyunmoo

[desert agate]

ADF exists at a scale where comprehensive reviews are not only possible but also advisable

[jagged monolith]

it confounds everyone

[desert agate]

also, Australias purchase of K9 will be cancelled in favour of HIMARS

[jagged monolith]

Second purchase.

[desert agate]

you're right yes thats my bad

[jagged monolith]

The first one has a contract signed, and if Australia goes back on that we’re going to demonstrate our missiles go 50% further whenever we feel like it.

[strong plank]

Guess that makes sense, HIMARS has been getting some good advertising recently

[strong plank]

oh you guys are going for a land-based maritime strike capability too

that’s what the marines are pivoting to focus on

[desert agate]

Australia was already a major investor in developing the replacement for ATACMS (Precision Strike Missile) and this development will be accelerated with increased funding

[jagged monolith]

Need to develop our own PrSM.

[desert agate]

Army is shifting towards a force structure that will resemble the USMC

[jagged monolith]

Peddle it with Chunmoo.

[dapper parcel]

Makes sense. I mean, where and how else the fights will be fought realistically

[desert agate]

well this is the whole idea of shifting towards a strategy of National Defence rather than simply Defence of Australia

[strong plank]

Unlike the marines though, I assume you all will be keeping the Abrams around

[desert agate]

Defence of Australia was always focused on internal defence, protecting the major cities and potential terror attacks, whereas National Defence is about protecting the nation as a whole

[dapper parcel]

All Australian involvement in any conflict will almost certainly expeditional in nature

[desert agate]

I can only assume the Abrams program will be going ahead as planned, as the DSR makes no mention of it

[strong plank]

that’s what I’d guess too

[jagged monolith]

We got what we wanted with Redback.

[strong plank]

The marines dropped tanks bc they knew the army could do that job for them

[jagged monolith]

Besides, the amount of foreign tech in that thing’s insane. No biggie.

[strong plank]

If you’re talking the main army then it’s a fair assumption that they’re staying around

[desert agate]

this has not necessarily been the case in the War on Terror, but the DSR is a fundamental restructuring of ADF away from a force for fighting the post-cold-war conflicts and towards a peer opponent conflict

[jagged monolith]

Only thing that’s left to do is to develop a missile more fit for TEL.

[desert agate]

given that DSR recommends accelerated development of LCM and LCH, I would presume Army wants greater capability to deploy its M1s rather than reducing its investment in tanks

LAND400 will be reduced from 400 to 129 vehicles however

[strong plank]

What was LAND400?

[desert agate]

IFV

[dapper parcel]

No mention of seabasing?

[desert agate]

none

[jagged monolith]

Disappointing, but only a little.

[desert agate]

ADF will also be shoring up its communication lines through the interior, with explicit mention of the Indian Ocean Bases, and fuel storage and logistics towards the interior bases will need to be dramatically enhanced, and government intervention will be necessary to support civil fuel storage which is about to be decommissioned, in support of ADF operations

RAAF in particular needs greater capability to disperse and harden

DSR recognises that while a direct invasion of the Australian mainland is a remote possibility, the primary threat to Australia and ADF assets comes from long ranged strikes and incursions into our EEZ

far northern australia is ADFs largest strategic asset but also its greatest strategic liability

[jagged monolith]

Just gib big enough hyunmoo to bonk tasmania already

so we can also whack most of Central Asia

[dapper parcel]

Let central asia alone, lol
Not like anyone even remotely know wtf they're doing anyway, much less what they're up to

[desert agate]

Osborne shipyard must immediately start expanding its facilities for the construction of the nuclear submarines
Henderson does not have enough work to sustain the number of shipbuilders at the facility, as it is a major base for maintenance and upgrade, government intervention must ensure its long term sustainability

the shipbuilding sustainment program must be enhanced and expanded to provide Australia with a persistent shipbuilding capability

[jagged monolith]

By God I will drop two dozen 1-ton thermobaric bombs on Beijing with one missile

[runic prairie]

Isn’t there a proposal to mount LRASM on HIMARS?

[desert agate]

LRASM-SL is more than a proposal

It's literally happening

[runic prairie]

Nice

[jagged monolith]

screaming

[strong plank]

Meanwhile I’m just here waiting for OMFV news like

[runic prairie]

You guys should buy the Nimitz.

[strong plank]

https://tenor.com/view/maes-b-lost-in-a-field-pulp-fiction-john-travolta-gif-14829328

[runic prairie]

I think that’s a great idea.

[jagged monolith]

We need to sell stuff

[strong plank]

Nah Nimitz’s time has gone

[desert agate]

do you think we can just shit out personnel or something?

[jagged monolith]

HOMARS must rule

[runic prairie]

Isn’t that how people are born?

[desert agate]

Angus Houston can't just look at a man and within minutes have him in uniform

[strong plank]

She was designed for 50 years of operation and she’ll be hitting that mark right before retirement

[desert agate]

it isnt 2013 anymore

[runic prairie]

New coat of paint and she’s good as new.

[jagged monolith]

(no she isn’t)

[runic prairie]

Don’t mind the refueling

And the corrosion

It adds character

[jagged monolith]

If Australia likes having an immobile derelict hulk it is a good purchase.

[desert agate]

another recommendation made by the DSR is that ADF needs to immediately rectify its personnel retainment and recruitment issues

[runic prairie]

Conscription

[jagged monolith]

Conscription

[desert agate]

Navy in particular, has the greatest challenges in this regard

[strong plank]

I feel like every military around the world just nodded in unison

[desert agate]

conscription is not only a very bad idea for ADF (it's a bad idea for most militaries) but is also politically impossible

[strong plank]

recruitment and retention’s been tough the last few years

[jagged monolith]

Recruitment’s been tough for the last few years

[runic prairie]

Skill issue

[jagged monolith]

too few “recruits”

)))))))))

[desert agate]

conscription is excellent for large forces which operate very basic and simple heavy equipment

that equipment is however, less capable

you cannot train a conscript on HIMARS in peacetime

[jagged monolith]

(yes you can)

[runic prairie]

Simple. Conscript only college grads.

This is a financially smart move.

[strong plank]

Conscription’s not something you’re really meant to take out of the toolbox often, if at all

[jagged monolith]

ROKA runs on barrel-scraping conscripts and it’s doing just fine.

[desert agate]

they are specialised pieces of equipment and require years of investment to create professional personnel

[desert agate]

there is a very good reason why the ROK relies on guns rather than precision strike

[jagged monolith]

(man freezes to death)
I said it’s fine!

[desert agate]

an unprofessional, conscripted ADF is an ADF that cannot defend Australia

[jagged monolith]

I’m sorry I can’t hear you over the sound of 10,000 Chunmoo rockets per year

[runic prairie]

3000 Chunmoos of the ROK

[desert agate]

Australia must maintain a professional corps of highly trained personnel

[dapper parcel]

HIMARS don't need the entire crew to be NCO
Most complex systems don't either. That's realistically how any conscript-based military will operate

[desert agate]

a large pool of untrained and unmotivated personnel will only degrade capability

[strong plank]

There’s a reason why most militaries run on the professional model

[desert agate]

I have yet to witness a modern expeditionary force that uses conscription

[dapper parcel]

Using conscript for expeditionary force is how you lose support fast

[desert agate]

all conscript forces rely on their armies for internal conflict, or short distance land conflicts with bordering countries

[dapper parcel]

or any offense for that matter

[desert agate]

if ADF is to shift to a National Defence Strategy, it must maintain a professional corps of highly trained personnel

ADF is also to reintroduce a ready reserve force by 2025

[manic latch]

Buying Nimitz is a scam now

Reactors don't go well with age

One of their downsides

Can't use them long as normal propulsion ships

QE may outlive Ford

[frigid karma]

elaborate

I'm not too knowledgable about aircraft carrier reactors, but regular reactor lifespans seem to be doing fine

https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/whats-lifespan-nuclear-reactor-much-longer-you-might-think

[jagged monolith]

Carrier reactors have a very specific designed life.

After this, they must be thrown away.

In theory, it is possible to replace many of the components which are designed with limited life (all of them) and continue operating, but this would be prohibitively expensive; the reactor was never designed for such a thing.

[frigid karma]

[desert agate]

the great thing about land nuclear reactors is that you dont need to take apart an entire ship to get to them

[manic latch]

Let's say if you design your nuclear carrier as to operate 50 years

It will go long as that

Trying to milk it more will make her worse

[jagged monolith]

Land reactors also have life-limited components (again, all components are), but they can be replaced relatively easily and they have greater margins for error.

[manic latch]

Also the reason nuclear ships are hard museums to become

You need to rip out the reactor from inside

Then either close it again or left that hole there

[frigid karma]

But wasn't ford designed to last for

around 50 years, same as her predecessors?

[runic prairie]

Yeah

They undergo a refueling and refurbishment period midway through life

Then once again near the end.

[jagged monolith]

It is designed to be RCOHed once.

[runic prairie]

It’s about a 20 year life span

For the reactor

[jagged monolith]

Some of the life-limited components can be replaced in that time.

Not all of them.

[frigid karma]

man i'm starting to understand german teams

11 kills

got steamrolled

[manic latch]

70s

2070s

[frigid karma]

so yeah, 50 years

more or less like the last two nuclear classes did

[manic latch]

Wonder if we will live long enough to see her replacement

Design likely pop in 2060s

[frigid karma]

if you got off your pc, maybe

[manic latch]

Wrong

You see most things on pc

[frigid karma]

was more referring to lifespans

[manic latch]

Ah

[frigid karma]

but in any case, obsolescence is defined by capability, not weakness

[jagged monolith]

A ship that cannot move is obsolete.

[manic latch]

Or dangerous to itself

[frigid karma]

Can i finish?

Nuclear carriers are bought so they can immediately get going to wherever they need to go, without having to refuel

having a shelf life on their reactors doesn't directly impact this capability

and said capability is a rather important one to the usn

[manic latch]

And France

Some reason

[frigid karma]

power projection

also

[manic latch]

British chill with Diesel

[frigid karma]

when dongfengs can come flying around at disturbingly often times

being stuck refueling is not a good idea

[manic latch]

You still need to refuel for plane fuel and crew food but ye

[frigid karma]

For example:

People say the horse became obsolete in ww1 because machine guns; not true. They were still used a lot on the eastern front, and the germans brought MGs there

[strong plank]

y'all are focusing on the nuclear part

and not

[frigid karma]

the reason is there's a lot less trenches and barbed wire on the eastern front, which prevented the horse's capability of flanking the enemy quickly