history

[autumn sorrel]

I envy them

[manic latch]

Millions of people try to reach America every year

[maiden citrus]

some people here have chronic grass is greener syndrome

[jagged monolith]

this was 1890s korea

It was with no exaggeration a shithole of zero value

Whatever they saw in the hermit kingdom of Joseon, I do not understand. Even less, their willingness to stay and die in such a place. But they did die and they are buried here in the land they wanted to be in, for whatever reason.

That is more than I can say.

[spring briar]

I love shells

[autumn sorrel]

Well, missioner back then was true believer unlike now. I can have my disagreement with Christianity but the willingness to spread what they believe and place themselves in danger make them admirable

[autumn sorrel]

Sea shells or 380mm naval shell?

[maiden citrus]

I love armor

[spring briar]

[autumn sorrel]

Armor is overated, no armor is best armor

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

Maka I’m sorry

[maiden citrus]

oh no

[autumn sorrel]

How did they enact the test? Using less powder to simulate the impact?

[spring briar]

Yes

[jagged monolith]

What I will say is that they followed the commandment of Christ, even for the least of peoples.

I do not think more of them because they placed themselves in danger. Dying is easy. I think more of them because they lived for Joseon.

[spring briar]

I’m so sorry maka

Maka pyon

[maiden citrus]

sometimes gun win

but that is what evolution is all about

[autumn sorrel]

That's why no armor for over pen

[jagged monolith]

sometimes all glory to massive warhead

[spring briar]

You were being serious?

[jagged monolith]

God bless Anti-Ship Missiles.

[maiden citrus]

the defense offense competition makes better examples of both

[autumn sorrel]

God bless ECM

[spring briar]

Gun wins most of the time
The golden age of armor was at the turn of the century 1800-1900 when armor was gigachad

And most shells broke up on it

[jagged monolith]

Armor 2.0

Electronic Warfare and Stealth

[spring briar]

And ofc in 1860 when France slapped 120mm iron plates on gloire

Inpenetrable

[autumn sorrel]

For a short time until the brit introduce bigger gun with higher muzzle velocity

[spring briar]

When tho

The first thing they did was make warrior

And her 68 and 110 pounders could not pen gloire

Nor could most irinclads in the 1860’s

Ironclads back then were only good for nuking wooden ships of the line

And by the 1870’s everyone was making new ships

And the US made this

Maka explain

[maiden citrus]

everything is a shell if you believe

[autumn sorrel]

Didn't someone try a Hexagonal naval gun?

[spring briar]

Yes

There was a big competition of whitworth (hexagonal) vs french vs scott vs blakey rifling etc

Hexagonal rifling did not make the cut

[spiral cedar]

@spring briar Do you know anything about the exterior ballistics and body weights of the Emile Bertin SAPC?

[spring briar]

Not that much no

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/RyszardJonski/status/1640418700552699904
https://twitter.com/RyszardJonski/status/1640418704734273536

Junsupreme (@RyszardJonski)

You can read a bit about the Evolutionary National Tank (ENT) project, which was to be the successor of Challenger 1 and be equipped with a 140mm gun and a carousel autoloader in the book Chobham Armor. Interesting drawings were also published by Garupan History:

Twitter · Mar 27, 2023, 6:21 PM

Junsupreme (@RyszardJonski)

https://t.co/7Y8OIWOrVI

Twitter · Mar 27, 2023, 6:21 PM

[spring briar]

@spiral cedar

[spiral cedar]

swirlies

pounders?

[spring briar]

Early bronze rifled gun

Rifling was invented by a Belgian in 1824 ish

But it took until 1859 for it to really take off

1860’s US rifling

[spring briar]

Back when noone really knew what the twist would have to be

Krem is that from sniper ghost warrior

[manic latch]

No clue

[spring briar]

Why is the case rifled???0

[delicate beacon]

It's just paint

[spring briar]

@delicate beacon

[delicate beacon]

Is that a cased canonball?

[spring briar]

No

Lead sheathed shell

Like this

But round tip

[delicate beacon]

How thick do you want the driving band to be?
Yes.

[spring briar]

Well that’s 1860’s tech for ya

No better alternative before multiple copper driving bands

Well except studded shells ofc

[spring briar]

These have their own disadvantages ofc (needs to be muzzle loaded)

[spring briar]

So for land warfare the lead sheath was better (rof advantage) and for naval purposes the studded was better (better shell)

[dapper parcel]

Not sure if that's supposed to be extreme taper or extra long shoulder

[remote monolith]

someone in another server claimed Japan built some 400 Tiger tank copies for the defense of their Homelands

anyone got a sourcely that remotely corroborate this?

[autumn sorrel]

IJA did buy Tiger and plan to license build but as far as I know, the Tiger they bought was conscript back into the Wehrmacht and the license build plan never go anywhere

[shut wren]

Tornado?

[autumn sorrel]

SU-24

[shut wren]

Gives off Mig-23 vibes

[autumn sorrel]

It was back when everyone was mad about sweep wing aircraft

[shut wren]

I see

[autumn sorrel]

No tiger tank but they did upgrade the Chi ha to Chi nu with 75mm gun but that's thing never seen action outside of Home Islands

[dapper parcel]

At best they realistically might use Chi-To/Chi-Ri, but even that already have production issues

[remote monolith]

this tracks with what I know about Japanese production

[dapper parcel]

Using tiger for defense would be peak noncrediblility

[remote monolith]

just flabbergasted by the 400 Tigers of Hokkaido thing

[shut wren]

Just drop another nuke in said tiger formation

[autumn sorrel]

That is some serious weeb copium

Not only the Tiger but where you gonna find the fuel and spare part to running those tanks

[shut wren]

Also

[remote monolith]

not weeb, the guy who said that simply tends toward weird takes on certain historical events and assertions without proper sourcing

[shut wren]

Wasn’t there a instance in the normaandy landings where a USN ship blew up panthers n shit using its main gun

[autumn sorrel]

Texas iirc, she intentionally flood on one side to raise the gun up and shoot farther

That why I love Texas so much

[eternal veldt]

Here we go again

[autumn sorrel]

Well, there was some guy who said IJN could have invade Hawaii right after Pearl attack so I am not much of surprise

[ivory ridge]

[dapper parcel]

There were a lot of ships involved in Normandy landings

[shut wren]

[eternal veldt]

Lots of ships were involved at Normandy - Rodney was the one famously halting a battalion of Tigers - so basically any naval ship, really

coastal bombardment = bad for your health

[autumn sorrel]

Not saying Tex definitely get the kill, just saying why I love her

[eternal veldt]

I'm more focusing on the Texas flooded her thing

It's repeated ad nauseam, unfortunately

Also, a destroyer might arguably be more useful when it comes to continued supporting bombardment

You need the big guns for heavier fortifications, sure, but sustained and unironically raining hell constantly, you'd probably want a DD instead

[shut wren]

Da

[autumn sorrel]

Remind me of some USN cruiser that provide shore bombardment during the later stage in the Pacific

[eternal veldt]

Probably why Grom became one of the most hated ships by Germans in the Norwegian Theatre

[autumn sorrel]

Which one was it that intentionally come closer to bait out Japanese shore battery again?

[eternal veldt]

I only remember Colorado getting too close and eating a bit of shit.

[autumn sorrel]

Birmingham?

[dapper parcel]

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, it was Birmingham

[eternal veldt]

Yeeeap, 22 hits, 43 dead, 198 wounded

[quartz sun]

Trap shots?

[autumn sorrel]

Tbf, it was 6inch gun battery

[eternal veldt]

Still unideal imo

Though I can't think of anything better to do, considering the effect of bombardment with cases like Iwo Jima and so on forth

Something something Saipan ratio, Okinawa ratio

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1090252830327197696/IMG_5766.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1090253576967831572/IMG_5770.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1090253577366294580/IMG_5768.jpg

the centenary of the Italian Airforce is today
https://twitter.com/NichoConcu/status/1640652721475710977/photo/1

A-129 Mangusta (@NichoConcu)

Cento anni del l’aeronautica militare.

Twitter · Mar 28, 2023, 9:51 AM

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1089657277331558480/IMG_2889.jpg

8 Eurofighters, 6 F-35s and 8 MB-346

sadly i couldnt go to any of the open days so im only stuck with the videos and pics posted by other people

https://twitter.com/CiarliniKoerner/status/1640635554055200774

Ammiraglio Nerd (@CiarliniKoerner)

#OTD the Regio Decreto 28 Marzo 1923, n. 645 is promulgated.

It put in existence the #RegiaAeronautica (after 1946 #AeronauticaMilitare), that included 'all the aerial military forces of the Kingdom and the Colonies'.

#AeronauticaMilitare100

Twitter · Mar 28, 2023, 8:42 AM

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/siobhanheanue/status/1640544071327559684?t=dNGV0X0naSOBC32LWJc0cA&s=19

Siobhan Heanue (@siobhanheanue)

A former Australian special forces soldier who was charged with a war crime related to his deployment in Afghanistan has been granted bail, after a Sydney magistrate accepted he was in a potentially dangerous position in custody. https://t.co/t0EyAcKfAO

Twitter · Mar 28, 2023, 2:39 AM

[manic latch]

Was bail like

You pay money then

You are free until court makes a decision

After that you have to come to court

[desert agate]

Bail is when you pay up to be allowed out of custody until your trial date

[manic latch]

@spring briar

The 152-mm Modèle 1930 gun with a 55-caliber barrel could fire semi-armor-piercing projectiles weighing 57.1 or 56 kg at a distance of 26.8 km at an elevation angle of 45 °. Also, these guns, due to the maximum elevation angle of 90 °, could theoretically be used for anti-aircraft fire with an altitude reach of 14 km. But due to the impossibility of loading at an angle of over 75 ° and low elevation speed, as well as the practical rate of fire of 6.5 rds / min. they could only conduct barrage fire on the barrel

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

“Potentially dangerous”

What, was he gonna get shanked in prison?

Oh noes

[spring briar]

@sang

@delicate beacon

[delicate beacon]

Wait, what kind of base is that

[spring briar]

There’s supposed to be a thick lead driving band around that

[spiral cedar]

Oh yeah @manic latch do you know if there are any range tables out there for the 152mm/57 Pattern 1938? And ditto for the 180mm/57 Pattern 1932

[desert agate]

If he dies in prison it does fuck up a potential prosecution and therefore any future cases

[manic latch]

I will search. But current stuff i know about 152mm of Chapayev/Sverdlov are

Max elevation is 45°
Range 30.2km
950m/s

[spring briar]

I have data about all shells and I think I might have some for the ballistics

[manic latch]

@gusty nest

[spring briar]

The big three

[manic latch]

Zhdanov

[spring briar]

third shell on the picture

an exact match

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

the other are?

this?

[spiral cedar]

Looks like HE

[spring briar]

it is yes

but there's like 7 different kinds of soviet 152 mm HE

and all look very similar other than the nose fuze

if ya want any specific data I can get it for ya jaba

[spiral cedar]

I mean, I’ll take if it’s not too inconvenient, but I should preface by saying I’m mostly looking for AP and SAP type projectiles for my purposes

[spring briar]

I have AP and SAP type projectiles of soviet make

I have a whole book full of them in fact

just look at some of the 152's

pages full of them

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

so if you need specific info, hit me up

[spiral cedar]

Range tables pls

[spring briar]

jaba do you want to make a range table tool

with me

that has as input: shell shape, weight and V0
and that gives the trajectory?

because we both need plenty of range tables that we can't access

just a suggestion

[spiral cedar]

There's always Jurens' exterior ballistics with microcomputers paper

[spring briar]

I want smth I can run on python

I'm going to look at ELR shooting papers

[manic latch]

Richel using quantumcomputer to print 3d BB shells

[spring briar]

krem

I found two sources for the same shells

[tough quail]

https://youtu.be/MbPT9z_RzYA

neat

[spring briar]

who wins

[tough quail]

mp7 pens more because it's a full steel penetrator

neither do more than dent soviet armor at the time

[spring briar]

what's the armor level in nato equivalent

[tough quail]

turns out even an m16 with green tip couldn't get through the 80s ceramic

[spring briar]

3?

[tough quail]

so uh anyone in the backline was absolutely fucked

[spring briar]

556 green tip isn't anything to go off ngl

and I'd add those 4.6 and 5.28's are best against level 3a soft body armor

aka without plates

rather sad innit

[spiral cedar]

What is that

[spring briar]

found a 1895 article on French shell caps

[tough quail]

they are and are very good at that

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

its more addressing the whole doctrinal use of

"hey! we can give these to backline personnel to defend themselves from paratroopers!"

p90 round bounces off of a vdv helmet

"FUCK"

[spring briar]

shell caps in 1895

hronse

hop with me on this flying amx 32

[tough quail]

hell yeah

[spring briar]

ok imma start printing out these articles and putting them in a binder

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1640772330744848397

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1946, Admiral Chester Nimitz and General Dwight Eisenhower were awarded honorary degrees from the University of Richmond, Virginia. The two old warriors toasted each other with mint juleps.

Likes

105

Twitter · Mar 28, 2023, 5:46 PM

[delicate beacon]

Sounds about right.

UK/US be like: cannot be made fun of for surrender if you retreat from every battle

[manic latch]

🦅 True

[frigid karma]

Surrendering gives the enemy all of your resources and hands you a major L

A retreat denies them that, and depending on the situation can be a victory

[delicate beacon]

Fair, but losing ground and bases is also a form of ceding resources. Especially when it's the oil Japan desperately needed and you based your victory partly on.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lBG1GLT8uc

[manic latch]

Lapland

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1640405984962134036

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#RIP to Arthur “Joppy” Joplin who passed away on Tuesday at the age of 99. After volunteering for the Royal New Zealand Air Force, he was assigned to the RAF's famed 617 Dambusters squadron. He flew a Lancaster bomber on the 1944 mission that sank the German battleship Tirpitz.

Likes

318

Twitter · Mar 27, 2023, 5:30 PM

[humble mulch]

This Tone or Chikuma

[spring briar]

think TOne

[frigid karma]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1640820899526868996
https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1640820901196230657

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1942, the destroyer HMS Campbeltown (the former USS Buchanan) rammed the gates of the Normandie dry dock at St.Nazaire in German-occupied France. Commandos then disembarked to destroy machinery and other targets.

Twitter · Mar 28, 2023, 8:59 PM

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

The delayed-action explosives hidden on Campbeltown detonated hours later, knocking the dock out of service for the remainder of the war and killing several senior German officers who were touring the ship.

Twitter · Mar 28, 2023, 8:59 PM

[dapper parcel]

Does it count as retreat if practically all but one ships were blown up?

[manic latch]

Sorry for ping @strong plank . But months ago you asked me about did Soviets laid down CV around ww2 or not. Seems naval historians had no clue so just assumed Kronshtadt was a carrier, this is a writing from 1966

Only by "recent thinking" they started to think it's a Scharnhorst like

[shut wren]

do Bradley and humvees get something like the TUSK?

[shrewd pecan]

on bradley its called BUSK

in terms of humvee there's uparmoring kits

[shut wren]

i see

uhh

did any other tank/armored vehicle get something like a upgrade kit

this shit making me curios

[rapid junco]

@ivory ridge https://twitter.com/fab_oficial/status/1640812903455510557

Força Aérea Brasileira 🇧🇷 (@fab_oficial)

28 marzo | Compleanno dell'Aeronautica Militare Italiana

Parabenizamos a todos os militares da @ItalianAirForce pelo centenário de criação.

Auguri all’AeronauticaMilitare 🇮🇹 ✈️

#AeronauticaMilitare #ItalianAirForce #100Anni

Twitter · Mar 28, 2023, 8:27 PM

[ivory ridge]

[rapid junco]

It's a pity that the Italian and Brazilian AMXs never performed joint exercises

[delicate beacon]

Kronshtadt of the Treti International class (known as Project K-1000) was a triple screw 60.000t aircraft carrier with 3x3 406mm guns and 420mm belt. She was launched 16th March 1954 as target ship.

Was my intelligence correct?

[manic latch]

%50

@tough quail Anti-Snow Mig

[tough quail]

rad

[spiral cedar]

What engine is that

[maiden citrus]

does it shoot snow

what anti snow weapons does it carry

[manic latch]

I think Klimov VK-1?

[spiral cedar]

What was it used in

[manic latch]

Mig-15s

And IL-28

[delicate beacon]

It's a gun!

[manic latch]

Ah shit
You know how Soviets thought Iowa had 482mm belt?

It seems there is another

They thought Des Moines had 203mm belt

[maiden citrus]

you see the soviets had my psychological profile analyzed

[frigid karma]

they just take chunks of the belt off and cram it into the gun barrels lol

btw, was this pre reagan or post reagean

[manic latch]

Hmm 1950-53

[frigid karma]

because i know reagean boasted a lot about how the iowas are invincible

[shut wren]

what if I pour hot chocolate into Jet engine fuel

[maiden citrus]

tastes funny but still good

[manic latch]

What if I pour molten lava into your mouth

[frigid karma]

What if you didn't

[shut wren]

What if I pour soviet copium into your eyes

[manic latch]

You dare to use my own spell against me potter

[maiden citrus]

depends, condiments? bun type?

[shut wren]

I am the CCP,I specialize in Stealing soviet stuff

[manic latch]

Liu sha bao style

[maiden citrus]

well...

if frozen custard is so good

maybe...

[ivory ridge]

[shut wren]

[frigid karma]

Do we have a :murmany:

for :germany:

[shut wren]

no idea

[maiden citrus]

[frigid karma]

danke

[unborn wyvern]

I come back here after like what a year and you guys are actin all crazy

Anyways here's a C-130A

[eternal veldt]

@desert agate obligatory ping

[manic latch]

There it is Maka, Jane's fighting ships on Iowa in 1950

19"-16" belt armor Iowa

[maiden citrus]

it's beautiful yeh

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7PBh2l9NWM&ab_channel=SkyneaHistory

[desert agate]

woe

[desert agate]

@round moth what an interesting reaction to the deaths of over 600 men

[round moth]

Do you mean the Australian ship?

[desert agate]

yes

all 600 men aboard Sydney went down with the ship, bar a single survivor whose corpse washed up on Christmas island 3 months later

hardly joyous i'd argue

[manic latch]

Most moral Roon fan

[round moth]

I mean it's kinda funny when the Australian make the ship

And I don't even know that

Sorry

[desert agate]

what

[thorn trail]

what

[spring briar]

What

[desert agate]

Australia had a sizeable navy if that's what you're surprised about

[thorn trail]

Australia still has a decent sized navy

[round moth]

Yes I knew that

[delicate beacon]

Whatthefuckisgoingon

Are we having some redname moments

[ivory ridge]

Least deranged IB fan

[desert agate]

i genuinely dont know

i feel like theres some sort of insult here but im not confident enough to say for sure

[delicate beacon]

Spon. Just trust in Hanlon's razor

[desert agate]

like i dont want to be unnecessarily mean

so im giving benefit of the doubt

but i really dont know

[spring briar]

He probably watched like one kormoran video without thinking about the context idk

[deep apex]

It's times like these that I really hate having this color with my name

[ivory ridge]

You can always not 👁️

Discord

[spring briar]

Where’d he go

[desert agate]

y'all

stop being mean

give him a chance

[frigid karma]

Least deranged Roon simp

Lmao didn’t even see undie’s comment before this

[desert agate]

qwerty failing to understand the english language again

[frigid karma]

?

[desert agate]

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

No no I read that

I just

Didn’t care

I haven’t dabbed on a red name for being stupid in weeks and I need a fix

[desert agate]

you are not funny

[spring briar]

@delicate beacon

[delicate beacon]

[manic latch]

Did you know about the cook in Moby Dick novel?
He preaches the sharks at night and says "How angelic beings you would be if you could just control your hunger" but sharks wouldn't understand him

[spring briar]

Ok but sharks gotta eat lol

@delicate beacon

[manic latch]

They do

[spring briar]

Big version

[autumn sorrel]

Those stud thing, for the rifle groove I assume

[frigid karma]

Apparently even Singapore is building 10 k ton vessels

[autumn sorrel]

Welcome to the new Naval arm race in SEA

[manic latch]

St*alth hulls of modern era

They all ugly

[autumn sorrel]

Not enough top mast for you, Krem?

[frigid karma]

[manic latch]

Sides will be flat af as tradition now

[frigid karma]

How well do stealth ships do against sonar

Or rather

[manic latch]

Isn't sonar more about vibration and engine

[autumn sorrel]

You mean Sub?

[frigid karma]

Is it possible to shape a keel to be harder to detect via sonar

[autumn sorrel]

Either quieter or smoother running engine

[frigid karma]

Well changing hull shape would be more against active than passive

[autumn sorrel]

You could coat the hull in Sonar absorption material but it is expensive and redundant outside of sub

[manic latch]

Lockheed had some ideas

[frigid karma]

I’m honestly not sure but idt it’s viable

[delicate beacon]

There's active and passive sonar too.

[manic latch]

Armed with this knowledge, Lockheed's famous Skunk Works set out to design a stealthy submarine using this principle. The idea was to be invisible to the active sonar used by enemy submarines, aircraft and ships. And incoming torpedoes

[manic latch]

Knowledge was

While developing the stealth aircraft which we know today as the F-117A Nighthawk (aka Stealth Fighter), Lockheed chanced upon something. It turned out that the faceted sides of the aircraft didn't only deflect radar, they deflected sonar too. They found this out because a polaroid camera couldn't focus on the plane. This was because it used a form of sonar to measure the distance

[frigid karma]

Yeah, this likely wouldn’t do much against passive sonar

[autumn sorrel]

Krem, did the Gepard Class Frigate use towed sonar array? They tend to gloss over those in news article and I only know that Gepard have modification for ASW.

[frigid karma]

Hmm

Do we have any sonar experts in here

[manic latch]

MGK-335EM-03 with under-keel antenna

Ok this picture is 05 not 03. Tho I don't know their difference

[ivory ridge]

76

[frigid karma]

76 vls?

Neat

[ivory ridge]

76mm

the gun

[frigid karma]

Oh

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/468719321087082516/1073284933059104798/F96E2D69-E588-49B2-9B3D-E026BE5BCB3A.gif

Soy estupido

[ivory ridge]

right Singapore uses a different mount

[autumn sorrel]

76mm is a good caliber

[spring briar]

🍕76 🍝 127

[autumn sorrel]

Or 100mm

[manic latch]

US: Not anymore
chooses 57mm for Constellation

[frigid karma]

@spiral cedar sorry for the ping but do you have immune zone data and range tables for cruiser on cruiser action

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, they have to justify for Independence class and LCS system somehow

[manic latch]

Yeah..

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/910690876169281587/1078341189171957800/caption-6.gif

[autumn sorrel]

Remind me of Soviet ASW escort ship with twin 57mm back at the stern

[spiral cedar]

@frigid karma here's one

[manic latch]

Justification is

"While the 57 mm cannon may not seem as powerful as larger naval guns, such as the OTO Melara 76 mm, some of its performances are comparable; given its rate of fire and amount of explosive per shell, the Bofors gun actually achieves a higher amount of "explosive fired per second" than the 76 mm."

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

[autumn sorrel]

So more shell weight throw down the range, I prefer the individual Shel performance than dps

[spiral cedar]

@frigid karma Another

By range tables, do you mean you want like X angle of fall and Y impact velocity at Z range?

[shut wren]

Can I put like

A modern 76mm shell into a WW2 76mm gun

[manic latch]

Here, list of almost all real and designed Soviet naval guns

[frigid karma]

That’ll do

thanks for quick response

[delicate beacon]

Probably but you have no idea how fast it'll go so your tables are moot.
Also most shells come with different casings.

[frigid karma]

You can put a 12.7 browning in a 12 gauge

If that’s what you mean

But like sang said, casings

[autumn sorrel]

Same reason why you can't use the shell for Panther 75mm in pak40 75mm, dif shell casing and pressure

[delicate beacon]

Casings aren't part of the shell. Casings are part of the round

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, I need to update on the terminology again

[manic latch]

M2 shell in a DSHK?

[shut wren]

What if

152mm KV-2 shell in a 155mm sp howizer

[frigid karma]

I wonder how many instances of extreme temperatures warped shells so they don’t fit

Probably extremely rare, but I’d be surprised if it never happened

[tough quail]

friend

[spiral cedar]

Max ranges under ideal target angles at which various CL-caliber guns penetrate the Zara-class main belt. Note the second US shell is not introduced until 1944

[shut wren]

So

If a tank and a ground based gun have the same gun

Can it’s shells be used interchangeably

[frigid karma]

Ye

But afaik Tashkent was nowhere close enough to an su100y for that to happen

[shut wren]

Well duh

[delicate beacon]

Also they may want to share the same type of shells.

[shut wren]

Also Su-85M better

Smol

[delicate beacon]

Ship HE is about boom

Land HE is about shrapnel

[frigid karma]

Wait, why do Britain and Japan have no EFF pen?

[spiral cedar]

This is facehardened armor and they are firing shells without proper AP caps

[manic latch]

130mm/50 is super based

[frigid karma]

The ijn gun didn’t have proper AP caps?

[spiral cedar]

The British CPBC has only a thin mild steel hood, and the Japanese AP has only a sub-caliber cap head

[frigid karma]

Huh, til

[spiral cedar]

The Japanese 15.5cm and 20cm AP had sub-caliber cap heads

[shut wren]

How big of a gun will a T-34 need to have the recoil filp it over

[spiral cedar]

The BB caliber APC had full AP caps

[shut wren]

T-34-85 tank

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/515583624083406848/915910521646104606/image0.jpg

Type 1 is just Type 91 with a dye bag and slightly more streamlined ballistic cap btw

[desert agate]

Diving shell memes

[spiral cedar]

You can see the BB caliber shell has a true AP cap covering the body across the full diameter

[frigid karma]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/983414272065421354/984056558294007818/caption.gif

[manic latch]

She can handle 100mm, so likely 122mm or more is her limit

[spiral cedar]

But the cruiser caliber shell only has a sub-caliber cap head

Which won't poke a big enough hole in the armor plate to let the shell body pass through without breaking

[shut wren]

Like when i shoot it it goes and filos backwards

Filps

[frigid karma]

Egyptians put 122s on them

[manic latch]

What

[frigid karma]

So

[manic latch]

Then 152mm I guess

[frigid karma]

No

[spiral cedar]

Which is how you get this

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/507631071807012866/945833301741031495/IMG_5205.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/507631071807012866/945833302126886972/IMG_5206.jpg

[desert agate]

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/defence-capability-and-the-not-used-since-vietnam-critique/

Rare ASPI W

[spring briar]

tfw it's 1942 and your shells are still as shit as they were in 1905

just in a different way

[manic latch]

What caused stagnation of Japan's naval technology?

British stop helping?

[spring briar]

limited resources and probably limited competition with other sea faring nations

kinda turned japanese shell development into an echo chamber

[autumn sorrel]

Aren't those IJA patrol craft?

[spring briar]

it's in WT afaik

so probably

[alpine onyx]

I dig that second pic

What a cutie

[spring briar]

ex Shun Tien or ex Yang Min

they became soviet ships in 1934

[manic latch]

More comrades

[spring briar]

[deep apex]

Too late

Clipped and shipped

[spring briar]

Two shots. Field "secret" bronze howitzer of the 1753 model of the P.I.Shuvalov system. Firing range 532 meters. Actively used during the Seven Years' War. The barrel is made in order to increase the dispersion of buckshot along the front of the enemy. To keep the secret, the tip of the barrel was always covered from prying eyes. After Zorndorf, when a number of guns fell into the hands of the Prussians, King Frederick II ordered them to be displayed in Berlin under the motto "Russia's Big Secret".

@manic latch

[manic latch]

Shotgun

[spring briar]

sadly they didn't use it to finish off prussia

[spiral cedar]

Does it actually help though

[spring briar]

is this a PEZ dispenser

FOR WAR?

[autumn sorrel]

How effective was explosive shell during the American civil war?

[spring briar]

pretty effective

Parrot guns were the boomstick of the day

[autumn sorrel]

10pdr Parrott?

[spring briar]

there were lots of parrot rifles

10pdr

100pdr

[autumn sorrel]

Field gun then

[spring briar]

30pdr

like this?

or more like this size

[autumn sorrel]

Is there written document on how Civil War artillery unit was organized? Are they attach to infantry brigade or Corp level?

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

funny story, the US was still using napoleon style artillery throughout the 1870's-WW1 era

atleast in the army ofc

the brunt of artillery developments went to naval guns while the US army was vibin with napoleons

and ofc various early rifled guns like the parrot

but by ww1 the mle.1897 existed so the US army went to town on those

good investment

[spiral cedar]

Americans did like their French artillery

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

can't blame em

it was really nice

🇺🇸 🤝 🇫🇷

all ya need to conquer the wild west is a parrot

[spiral cedar]

And barbed wire

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

…mostly the barbed wire

Hwacha but uglier

[spring briar]

(shells on the top left)

🥏

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1641152158450974732

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

It's National Nevada Day! In 2012, USS Nevada (SSBN 733) was boarded by a rogue team of elite seals that tried to take over the submarine. The crew of the Nevada managed to repel the seals (harmlessly) before the marine mammals did any damage.
#NationalNevadaDay

Twitter · Mar 29, 2023, 6:55 PM

[spring briar]

@delicate beacon

I found

the cutest

shell

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3myjh7bMPY

[delicate beacon]

so cute

[spring briar]

look at it

so smol

[delicate beacon]

and smooth

it looks soft

[spiral cedar]

Don't have particular optimism about its stability

[spring briar]

@delicate beacon

omg

[spring briar]

should be alright

as long as the barrel isn't too long

[delicate beacon]

I love the pantserschepen

So adorable

[spiral cedar]

Overspun?

[spring briar]

I'm more afraid of the shell starting to yaw inside the barrel

it's very short and almost a sphere so there's a good chance of that happening if it isn't properly seated

thankfully it's so short it doesn't need a lot of rotation to stabilise

[spiral cedar]

Ah, that makes more sense

[spring briar]

To keep shells like that centered inside the barrel they added two studs atleast

Ideally a bit more

And then there’s this

[spiral cedar]

Drill bit looking shell

[shut wren]

Just make it spin

More effectiveness

[spring briar]

Shells spin

Wdym

[shut wren]

Spin faster

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

Spinning a shell too fast will make it land on its side or base when fired

[tough quail]

https://twitter.com/AFVRec_/status/1641150574870528009?t=Deh36VM2zazmBq3OUBs5Rw&s=19

AFV Recognition (@AFVRec_)

And so it begins…Kontakt-1 being fitted to a Leopard 2A4

Likes

224

Twitter · Mar 29, 2023, 6:49 PM

[manic latch]

Fucking knew it would happen

[tough quail]

IT

BEGINS

[manic latch]

Chal 2 and Abrams next

[tough quail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/311449130222354433/1090621817338728579/FB_IMG_1680094887092.jpg

coming soon to a nightmare dystopia near you

[manic latch]

Kontakt-1 Bradley

[shrewd pecan]

its gonna be the BMP issue

where the armor isn't thick enough to sustain it

[manic latch]

I thought Brad had more armor

Huh

[shrewd pecan]

it does but I still don't think it can sustain kontakt

[tough quail]

there are specialty kits for ifv ERA but I don't think russia ever exported it

the funny kaktus stuff

[manic latch]

Bradley had these

But Kontakt can be different ye

[tough quail]

yeah thats built specifically to not explode it

[manic latch]

Nato MBT fans the moment they see ERA

[shrewd pecan]

I mean they slapped the ERA where the tank most likely is going to need it

[manic latch]

Chal 2 %100 gonna get it then for lower glacis

[shrewd pecan]

not sure if the combat ready Ukrainian chally 2s are gonna have the British add on armor added or not

[manic latch]

Also

A2s are cancelled right

Gonna send A1s

What was the difference

[shrewd pecan]

changed out the A2s for A1s since apparently it's going to be faster

suspecting the marine corps M1A1s might be the ones being sent

[frigid karma]

Era on warships when

[weak spoke]

In 2012 a rouge team of navy seals tried to take over USS Nevada (SSBN 733) the crew of Nevada stoped them harmlessly

[frigid karma]

Cost: yes

[shrewd pecan]

"The layout of the M2A3 Bradley is similar to the standard version of Bradley M2A2. The hull and the turret of the Bradley are constructed of welded aluminum and supplemented at critical locations by spaced laminate armor. In addition, Bradley M2A3 has appliqué steel armor which can be fitted with additional passive armor or Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA). The ERA consists of 96 tiles fixed to the sides, turret, and front of the vehicle, which enhance protection against a variety of anti-armor munitions including shoulder-launched Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPG)."

ERA seems to go over where the armor has been previously reinforced on the Bradley so

[manic latch]

Everyone gangsta till you put them on port

[spring briar]

This is not

When will people get it right

[deep apex]

TikTok brainrot moment

[strong plank]

They shave up to half a year off the delivery time

Believe the difference is mostly in stuff like fire control, sights

Articles are saying it’s the M1A1 SA variant

[frigid karma]

int e re sting

[manic latch]

Richel's hideout

[shut wren]

Its where he keeps his broken down Panzer 3s and 4s

[frigid karma]

So, TIL, there's a museum ship called ticonderoga in NY

this is the ship

[shut wren]

First one is tomKat?

[shut wren]

Mig-29?

[orchid notch]

No

[shut wren]

[orchid notch]

Looks like a mash up of a bunch of different planes

[shut wren]

hmm

[orchid notch]

It looks like a F-14 with the tail of a F-16

WTF

[shrewd pecan]

It’s a single tail F-14

[shrewd pecan]

The 2nd plane is a German MIG-29

[orchid notch]

Who did this

I want a word with them

[shrewd pecan]

It was a mock up by Grumman

Originally the tomcat was only gonna have one vertical stabilizer

[orchid notch]

I’m scared of that thing

[shrewd pecan]

last couple of things I will post for now

[glass trail]

cursed bmp

[manic latch]

Nah cursed one use 125mm

[glass trail]

average russian armored doctrine

[manic latch]

British: Yeah I know right, stashes this under rug

[glass trail]

that looks like an ifv with a challenger turret strapped on top

[manic latch]

It's a Bradley hull yes

[glass trail]

the bradley we have at home

[tough quail]

man the path to the sprut was a fucking nightmare

[manic latch]

Wanna see the cutest Soviet helicopter?

[tough quail]

hit me

[manic latch]

It was designed to be launched from Submarine torpedo launchers

You take it out from the tube

Then bam

Ka-56 is ready

[tough quail]

thats adorable

[manic latch]

Only problem it never got a piston engine small and strong enough. So it never fly

[shrewd pecan]

it continues to be a nightmare considering how badly sprut procurement has gone

[tough quail]

way better than US light tank procurement

[frigid karma]

Tomorrow we will have either, Diet Abrams, Abrams Mini, Abrams Lite, or nonfat Abrams

[tough quail]

waiting for the legendary double barrel widebrams

[frigid karma]

interesting how the predecessors to the current chinese type 15 and the american MFP

are both

from vietnam era

light tanks are truly the most oppressed group

[tough quail]

XM8 died for our sins

[frigid karma]

and i mean

even these days

it's mostly just "hey we really really want a 105 in a fucky wucky muddy or wet place"

[tough quail]

even though there's nothing stopping you from fitting a 120/125 on the same weight class

it's goofy

[frigid karma]

yeah modern light tanks in general are just

for the most part just

get a ifv with some missiles on it

you can scout, you can knock out tanks, you got your own infantry

you can't knock out fortifications but a 30mm is plenty good enough for infantry support

but i guess that last reason is why countries are still trying to build them

holy fuck it's 130 i need to sleep

[tough quail]

with how enormous newer IFVs are becoming you could probably just fit a full gun on them with a troop compartment if you got creative

yeah same buddy

[frigid karma]

isn't it 4:30 where you a re

just inject some caffeine into your veins ig

[tough quail]

yeap

[subtle prawn]

You could also use light tanks for providing support in places where MBTs would have trouble getting to

[frigid karma]

well, yes, that's the main reason why countries are still building them

[maiden citrus]

4:30 am, time to go home soon from work

[frigid karma]

mfp is almost certainly designed to help amphibious landings and whatnot

the question is

why not just use an amphibious IFV

[shrewd pecan]

MPF isn't meant for amphibious landings

nor is it meant to exactly replace a Abrams

[frigid karma]

ok poor wording on my part

[shrewd pecan]

its meant to be a air transportable fire support platform for infantry divisions

[frigid karma]

but i meant like treacherous terrain

MPF doesn't have airborne requirements iirc

[tough quail]

it's meant to waste money because they went with incredibly flaccid requirements

[shrewd pecan]

so, supporting infantry, destroying fortifications etc etc

its something the army has been wanting for a long time

[frigid karma]

nvm it is

[shrewd pecan]

but budget cuts keep preventing it (XM8)

[tough quail]

it can't be parachuted but it needs to be able to get shoved into a plane

[shrewd pecan]

Griffin considering its about 30 years newer than XM8 is the better platform of the two

[tough quail]

even though you could do both with more firE POWER WHY IS IT SO MID

[shrewd pecan]

mixture of a ton of 105 ammo being in storage, higher ammo capacity and access to HESH for anti structure work

[tough quail]

aaaAAAA

I'm gonna sleep

[shrewd pecan]

also its not really like the infantry units don't already have plenty of tank killing capability

[frigid karma]

well, recently there's been a drop but there'll likely be a surplus of 155 in the near future

[shrewd pecan]

I'm talking

105 MM tank ammo

[frigid karma]

this calls for reboring all the Sheridans we can find

152 to 155

Small change

[shrewd pecan]

not 105 howitzer ammo

[frigid karma]

she will ride again

(yes i'm aware it's not even remotely the same shell)

[tough quail]

still the correct answer

[shrewd pecan]

light tank with the full length MBT-70 gun capable of firing APFSDS

[shrewd pecan]

also I don't really think air droppable capability is worth it considering the trade off of armor

since uhhhh

when are we even going to actually air drop

[frigid karma]

Hey Tato

do you know why ariete has like

less armor than an IS-7

[shrewd pecan]

it was a interim tank meant for high mobility in mountain terrain

[frigid karma]

I was just browsing some top tier MBTs the other day and ariete uh

yikes

[shrewd pecan]

that ended up not being a interim vehicle due to the cold war ending

[frigid karma]

ah

that explains it

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of air droppable capability I'm actually serious

when are we ever gonna air drop into combat in sizeable amounts

[frigid karma]

The Moon

Actually now that i think about it lunar armor would be dope as fuck

Half the gravity, half the restrictions

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northern_Delay

"During the next two weeks at Bashur Airfield, all supplies arrived via the airlines of communication (ALOC) on C-17s and C-130s from Ramstein Air Base, Germany through Constanta Air Base, Romania. During an average 24-hour day of operations, more than 40 Air Force 463L ALOC pallets would arrive. Each pallet then had to be downloaded from the plane, transported to the SSA, processed and finally issued either to storage or to customers.

Some of the C-17s carried huge M1-A Abrams tanks and weighed from 250,000 to 300,000 pounds when they landed. After two weeks of use by heavy cargo planes, parts of Bashur's 7,000-foot runway crumbled, forcing the closure of 2,300 feet."

like every modern combat jump has just been securing a airfield from a opposition with greatly weakened air defenses that allowed for the airlifting of armor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rhino

[dapper parcel]

With surface orbital velocity of only 1.6 km/s you can even shoot yourself on your back with your own gun

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1641240541655359488

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Prior to the invention of sonar, ships such as the battleship USS Nevada (BB-36) would launch kite balloons from which observers could spot submarines. The U.S. Navy even had a specialized kite balloon tender, USS Wright (AZ-1).
#WarshipWednesday #NationalNevadaDay

Likes

169

Twitter · Mar 30, 2023, 12:46 AM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1641222166099243012

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

As efforts to restore USS Texas (BB-35) continue, steel and sections of the deck from the battleship have been sent to artisans who will use the material to make knives. The knives will be sold at auction to benefit the Battleship Texas Foundation.
#WarshipWednesday

Likes

547

Retweets

119

Twitter · Mar 29, 2023, 11:33 PM

https://news.usni.org/2023/03/29/secnav-del-toro-virginia-attack-sub-construction-significantly-behind-district-of-columbia-submarine-10-behind-schedule

[manic latch]

%10

[dapper parcel]

Wait a minute, they named the sub after DC and not the Columbia?

Well, TIL

[thorn trail]

Yeah because there's currently a Los Angeles class sub named Columbia already

[dapper parcel]

Considering the building cadence of Virginia-class, 688i Columbia will probably already getting decommissioned by the time DC getting into service

[haughty osprey]

Just keep her in Galveston holy shit

It's already a major beach resort town

And it has the actual fucking drydock

[autumn sorrel]

Ok, just some fun questions but what do you guys really think about Zheng He ships and his expedition? I try to read about them but either I get exaggerated number and some really flying colors comments or some consider the trip to be of little impact and doesn’t contribute anything.

[remote monolith]

imo, a great prestige achievement for sure, but relatively small actual economical value. I know that it does results in multiple Southeast Asian entities doing frequent kowtows to the court, which is a nice power projection value for the Ming

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WueEUAR2HN8

[tough quail]

those australian virginias are looking very likely

[desert agate]

worst case we get them second hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5sFJWeNsjA&ab_channel=MrMitchellHistory

[shrewd pecan]

👁️ US navy please invest into improving your shipbuilding infrastructure challenge impossible

the more I look into the BMD series of vehicles the more I ask, why the hell do these things exist

[tough quail]

wheeze

[shrewd pecan]

like

the BMP-2 and BMP-3 are within the weight class to be airdropped

and are only 2-3 feet longer than the BMD-4

yet with the BMDs your sacrificing both dismount capacity and protection

upper limit for air drop ability is around 42k IBS or around 21 tons

BMP-3s about 20.6 tons

BMP-2s 15.6

BMD-4 is 15

even height wise the BMD-4s taller than the BMP-3

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/INDOPACOM/status/1641198548547952648?t=v-OuPtGqHCpUyRZr1ND-_Q&s=19

U.S. Indo-Pacific Command (@INDOPACOM)

🇺🇸–🇸🇬–🇹🇭

#ICYMI, @PACAF, #RoyalSingaporeAF and the #RoyalThaiAF participated in #CopeTiger23 in 🇹🇭. #FreeAndOpenIndoPacific
#FriendsPartnersAllies

📸: Courtesy photo

Likes

249

Twitter · Mar 29, 2023, 10:00 PM

US INDOPACOM declaring Singapore a monarchy

[shrewd pecan]

I mean it basically is one with extra steps

anyway back to bashing the BMDs

you have a airborne IFV that's as heavy as the BMP-2, only slightly smaller, sacrifices 2 dismounts and sacrifices a large degree of protection as well

[frigid karma]

It isn’t?

I lived there when I was a kid and I’m pretty sure the government 1984s everyone

[tough quail]

there is uh

a lot more to be considered for parachuting something than just air lifting it

especially for something you can parachute actually crewed

its not just "alright its light enough chuck it out the back"

[shrewd pecan]

You can’t air drop a BMD crewed

[tough quail]

yes you can

the later ones at least

but crew or not the point remains

wiesels weigh like five pounds and they tried parachuting those and they just destroyed themselves hitting the ground

[shrewd pecan]

I don't think you can even air drop the BMD-4Ms crewed

ok nvm you can

I was thinking of the dismounts

🤨 tho personally I wouldn't want be inside of the vehicle being air dropped

[shrewd pecan]

Wiesel was designed for transportability by the CH-53 so not surprising

in terms of the BMDs themselves

[tough quail]

that's the point

[shrewd pecan]

you have a air droppable IFV

[tough quail]

you have to develop something specifically to not commit die after being parachuted

[shrewd pecan]

you do not have the capacity to air drop in large numbers

[tough quail]

a bmp will dismantle itself

[shrewd pecan]

this IFV additionally sacrifices multiple important things for that air droppable capability

in terms of the BMP-3 and BMP-2 yeah obviously a standard BMP-2 isn't going to be air droppable

but again for the weight class you can have a far better vehicle

that sacrifices less things

combined with the other issue of actually having the capacity to reliably air drop more than a couple battalion of VDV at a time

The Russians have 4 VDV Divisions, and 4 VDV brigades but only around 132 IL-76 and AN-124 cargo aircraft to deploy them

leaving us with "There are other problems. Optimistically, Russia’s military transport aviation (VTA) is at best able to deliver between one and two regiments in a sortie. The aviation park of Il-76 heavy transports is simply not big enough for serious airborne operations, and certainly not in a contested environment. Given that Russia’s VDV trains to force generate as battalion tactical groups, more than likely the maximum air lift capacity is for two or three such formations. In practice, this means that Russia has one of the world’s largest airborne forces (approx 45,000 strong), but without the air lift to use them in their designated role. Indeed, according to Russian defense journalist Ilya Kramnik if Russia wanted to deliver its airborne in the initial period of war it would have to increase the air transportation park four-fold. This is simply impossible given the current rate of Il-76MD-90 modernization and aircraft production. At best the VTA is likely to tread water on the number of currently available aircraft in the strategic airlift role."

https://russianmilitaryanalysis.wordpress.com/2019/01/30/rethinking-the-structure-and-role-of-russias-airborne-forces/

and the other issue I should probably mention at somepoint
"Second, despite its service record, and esprit de corps, the VDV can be seen as an anachronism: yet another piece of Soviet inheritance that Russians might qualify as a “briefcase without a handle”. Rather than parachuting into battle, in practice the VDV has spent most of its time in the role of motor rifle units on lightly armored vehicles. Allegedly, at one point during the New Look reforms, then Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov and then Chief of General Staff Nikolai Makarov even considered cutting the entire combat arm and handing it over to the land forces"

[shut wren]

Whats the most built modern ship

1980+

[spring briar]

Remove the Z from your username

[shut wren]

there

[tough quail]

it's a bit contradictory to the not a weirdo part

[shut wren]

[spring briar]

Thx

[shut wren]

[spring briar]

@tough quail

[shut wren]

also gib answer pls

[spring briar]

Depends on the size

[shut wren]

DDs

[spring briar]

Burke?

[shut wren]

[dapper parcel]

Burke will surpass Perry numbers around this August

[cinder escarp]

Yeah the burkes have been building up for a long time

It's all we really have anymore

That said in terms of production rate the 052Ds are getting turned out like sausages

[shut wren]

we call em dumplings

also saw a group of 5 054Bs being built

[cinder escarp]

Build chart from 2 years ago

[shut wren]

[tough quail]

https://www.spartanat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Leopard-Era-1-759x500.jpg

https://tenor.com/view/we-reap-what-we-sow-cat-gif-26137138

[spring briar]

Wuz that

[tough quail]

a leo 2a4 decked out in kontakt-1

[maiden citrus]

chonked

[ivory ridge]

that's an old photoshop from a couple of months ago

tho given yesterday's photo...

[tough quail]

dammit

i thought it looked off but dach told me it was an actual thing

its coming though

god help us all, its coming

[shrewd pecan]

kontakt Leopard 2A4

can't wait for the Kontakt STRV-122

[dapper parcel]

MLC70 L2A4

[shut wren]

Kontakt Plane

[tough quail]

tfw no old K1s being sent from korea

coild've had K-1 K1s

[dapper parcel]

No way Korea offload their backbone

[subtle prawn]

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2023/april/shipwreck-discovery

[tough quail]

speaking of korea

https://twitter.com/Fighterman_FFRC/status/1641353381032624130

Fighterman_FFRC (@Fighterman_FFRC)

Still captures from the South Korean KF-21 weapon seperation test video.

I gotta admit the sight of 4 semi-recessed Meteor BVRAAM sitting next to each other brings joy to me

Likes

1093

Retweets

234

Twitter · Mar 30, 2023, 8:15 AM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[dapper parcel]

When did they reattach the Indonesian flag decal?

[tough quail]

recessed pylons until block 3 has actual internal bays

sweet jesus this flayed my brain

y'all have meltdowns when felons have rivets exposed for maintenance in pictures but this isn't what gets laughed at?

[strong plank]

Weren’t they wood screws

And this is a weird altitude to be performing maintenance at

[shrewd pecan]

probably because its not meant to be a fifth gen

4.5 gen since its best described as inbetween a fifth gen and a fourth gen

[tough quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/777365752562843658/1078149877147643985/message-editor_1564523268661-kakdkakdadc.webp

typically you only bother actually filling the gaps when on actual deployment

not fucking around in airbases/prototype testing

[dapper parcel]

Idk what's with wood screws, that's just standard countersunk screws. A lot of aircraft use them
Unless there's someone actually showing them using self taper screws

[tough quail]

theres no point even really like... trying to pretend to be a stealth jet at that point

or going with the early production at all

[shrewd pecan]

I mean compared to like

[tough quail]

because they're just comedically shit compared to the later ones

[shrewd pecan]

every other 4.5 gen its gonna have the best RCS values

[tough quail]

i cant wrap my brain around

[shrewd pecan]

generally KF-21 is lacking in quite a few areas

[tough quail]

"lets do two batches that cannot into stealth and then actually do internal bays after"

[tough quail]

why are you wasting money like this

[shrewd pecan]

such as you know

[tough quail]

what the fuck

[shrewd pecan]

no internal weapons pod

and no internal loads

same time its a 4.5 gen not being marketed as a fifth gen

for what it is its gonna likely have the best RCS values for a 4.5 gen

[strong plank]

Also last I checked the South Koreans aren’t going around yelling

[tough quail]

wanna know the funniest part

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213011911002816513/1091121565757878293/El96ym6UcAASHPG.jpg

the bays are already there...

👁️

[strong plank]

“THE KF-21 STRIKES FEAR INTO THE HEART OF THE WEST”

[shrewd pecan]

probably because there still perfecting the bays

[frigid karma]

But can the kf beat a tomcat

[shrewd pecan]

internal bays can be problematic at times so not surprising

[strong plank]

Yeah the fuselage is literally

[tough quail]

if you haven't perfected them then DONT START SERIAL PRODUCTION

[strong plank]

Designed to be able to accommodate bays later on

[shrewd pecan]

I'm pretty sure

the Koreans would want KF-21s with external hardpoints

over F-4s and F-5s

[tough quail]

alright gotta hop into a call now, so gotta cut my mental breakdown short

[frigid karma]

Also horse it bears in mind that like

[shrewd pecan]

idk the YF-23 had nightmare level issues with its internal bay so

[frigid karma]

Wasting money

Is kind of incentivized in any military

Not just the military, in fact

[shrewd pecan]

its down to getting a aircraft into service as soon as possible that you can add additional capability to later

[strong plank]

I mean it actually does make sense to go

[shut wren]

Militaries love wasting money

[strong plank]

“Hey we haven’t worked this out yet, but we’re working on it and it’ll be incorporated into a future upgrade”

[frigid karma]

That’s most military projects though isn’t it?

[strong plank]

“In the meantime let’s get a base model into production to start warming up the production lines and get something into our hangars”

[shrewd pecan]

B-21 ahead of schedule and on budget

[dapper parcel]

Building local production capability is valid reason tbf
For example I also laugh my ass at Arjun, but it isn't a bad project for India
Minus the ultranationalist wank of course

[shut wren]

i know it sounds stupid but

why all "5th gen stealth" planes look like F-22 and F-35s

[strong plank]

Also yeah again the KF-21 isn’t claiming to be like

[shrewd pecan]

Convergent design

[strong plank]

the super ultra mega 5th gen killer that will have all the west shrieking and crying

[frigid karma]

Not reflecting radar

Demands a certain shape

[strong plank]

like the felon and femboy are

[frigid karma]

Surprising how hyping yourself up 3000 times a day has consequences

[dapper parcel]

You either make it like F-22 or B-2
The latter won't happen on fighter any time soon

[shrewd pecan]

idk I like treating the crap like the Su-35, MIG-35 with some level of respect

[frigid karma]

And your wunderwaffe has like 5 units total

[shrewd pecan]

the Su-57 is just

a mess

[frigid karma]

And you never even bother deploying said wunderwaffe

[shut wren]

Wunderwaffle

[frigid karma]

Because you might lose it

[strong plank]

I burst out laughing any time I see someone unironically pull out the

[frigid karma]

Like an rpg player hoarding his elixirs

[shut wren]

Like uhh

Idk

\

[strong plank]

“Bro it’s 57 because 22+35, it’s better than all the best American jets”

[shut wren]

I mean

just send a F-22+35 together

F-57=Su-57

simple

[frigid karma]

F-111 unstoppable

[shut wren]

💀

[glass trail]

welcome back to: how the germans could have won wwii

[tough quail]

well remember this is a country trying to pump out like

[rapid junco]

I heard something similar
But about the Embraer Milleniunm

[tough quail]

unlimited future science on all fronts

and build carriers

[frigid karma]

Key word on

Trying

[tough quail]

that budgets getting a beating

[frigid karma]

Also the cv dream I think is in the shitter by now

[rapid junco]

"The Millenium is better than the C130 Hercules because its worth 3 Hercules"
Because 130x3=390

[tough quail]

no they actually tried upscaling it iirc

which is lol

[frigid karma]

Maybe they can grab one of their ten billion container ships and put a helipad on it

[shut wren]

welcome back to the 15043254th discussion about this topic

[frigid karma]

Seriously, how does sk make so many ships tho

[shrewd pecan]

affordable costs with smaller ships making the bulk of navy

[dapper parcel]

They perfected the modular shipbuilding, and mostly cheap labor too tbh

[shrewd pecan]

that as well