history

[rapid junco]

Aquidabã was on the rebel side i should say
While Sampaio was on the "Loyalist"

The rebels were defeated
Some consequences were like
The Marine Corps was extinguished for some time

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1636461282353094683

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

USS Iowa's Tube #270, the first 16-inch/Mark 7 gun ever built, is being moved from storage at Norfolk Naval Shipyard to Fort Story where it will be on exhibit near the Old Cape Henry Lighthouse. Tube #270 was installed in Iowa's turret 1 until being removed in 1954.

Likes

119

Twitter · Mar 16, 2023, 8:15 PM

[frigid karma]

@maiden citrus

wv44

WV '44: Secondaries with long range, improved accuracy and fast reload, improved heal (akin to Monty)

[subtle prawn]

He knows

[spring briar]

*she

[frigid karma]

🐌

ooof

[subtle prawn]

Whoops

[maiden citrus]

Doesn’t it have bad accuracy

The rest I’m totally in love with though

[frigid karma]

secondaries have improved accuracy, fast rld and long range

main gun sigma is 1.7 and standard usn dispersion

[ivory ridge]

1.7 sigma isnt bad

or rather

it's not good but also not the worst

[frigid karma]

eh, colorado has 2.0

wv44 basically trades main gun performance for secondaries

[spring briar]

Juan

I want a USS South Carolina or USS Michigan plushie

[delicate beacon]

Ship or Kansen

[eternal veldt]

The lattice mast will break, not huggable

[frigid karma]

if the mast is sturdy, it will serve another purpose

[wicked light]

Where i can find those photos from ships of brazilian navy?

[rapid junco]

Well
Usually the most commom source is the NGB website

NGB (Navios de Guerra Brasileiros [Brazilian Warships]) is a website that gathers info and pictures from the ships (it's kind of an old site still maintained)

But i've way other sources as well
That one of Aquidabã can be found on the Brasiliana Fotográfica

But recently i also have "befriended" a retired Admiral that have access
He have access to the DPHDM (lets say its the USNI of the MB)
And sometimes i can find "gold nuggets" pictures
Rare things

That's the case of that one

I dunno, but it sounds illegal. But it isn't

And there's some i found randomly out there
The MB have an Official Flickr account

[tough quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213011911002816513/1086111045921288233/message-editor2F1632863410462-ffg-62-versus-fremm-graphic.png

https://tenor.com/view/godfather-massacre-sad-gif-16810633

[subtle prawn]

Just found about how they modified the FREMM design?

[tough quail]

yes

[ivory ridge]

57mm

[wicked light]

I had already seen the FAB one. Awesome photos.

[wicked light]

Thankyou.

[desert agate]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-17/five-year-archaeological-project-explores-north-west-wa-deserts/102089628

[manic latch]

https://news.usni.org/2023/03/16/army-and-navy-cancelled-march-hypersonic-test-due-to-battery-failure

[rapid junco]

You're welcome

[cobalt magnet]

whats the fight of pearl harbour so famous about? i keep hearing abt it

[thorn trail]

wait do you mean the attack on pearl harbour?

it's the attack which brought the US into the war

Surprised attack by the Combined Japanese fleet on the US fleet based in Pearl Harbor

[cobalt magnet]

eh japanese went and aggro us ppl? thats dumb tbh

[autumn sorrel]

You seriously asking that question?

[cobalt magnet]

i dont take history

im not american just for the record

[thorn trail]

There was a method to that madness

The goal was to damage the US Navy to the point that they'll take a while to rearm and built up

[autumn sorrel]

They stuck in a war with CN and in order to get more resources for war with CN, they go to war with US, Brit and dutch

[thorn trail]

While they do their version of blitzkrieg on SEA for their resources

[cobalt magnet]

whats blitzkrieg

[autumn sorrel]

Lightning war

[cobalt magnet]

i have no idea whats that

[thorn trail]

Once they held these territories, they'd put up a defensive line to prevent the Americans from trying to recapture those territories

[autumn sorrel]

And the dutch rather burn their oil field than leave them to the Japanese

[cobalt magnet]

is that why japanese ran out of oil

[thorn trail]

Ultimately one of their main goals for that defensive line is for the "Decisive Battle", where in one engagement they'll beat back the US Navy

Hence why the Yamato's were BIG, since the Japanese know they were gonna be outnumbered

[autumn sorrel]

Not really, USN subs intercept and sink many of JP oil tanker, like only 30-40% managed to get to the Home islands

[thorn trail]

it was worse than 30%

by 1943-1944 it was like more like 90% of the merchant marine for Japan

[cobalt magnet]

wouldnt it be better to build more ships rather than make 3 extremely huge ones

[thorn trail]

Japan again cannot outbuild the US

[autumn sorrel]

It still hilarious when IJN emphasize so much on attrition by sub but they completely neglected ASW

[thorn trail]

limited capacity

[thorn trail]

attrition by sub for main fleet but not for merchant marine lmao

[autumn sorrel]

They can’t compete on number so they have to rely on quality

[cobalt magnet]

i have no idea what attrition is

[thorn trail]

weakening or exhausting the enemy

[delicate beacon]

Slow loss of resources/life.

[thorn trail]

so basically picking the enemy one by one

[autumn sorrel]

It still isn’t an excuse for the complete lack of research or outright ignore asw

[autumn sorrel]

Slowly inflicting dmg on enemy overtime

[thorn trail]

Yeah it's stupid

then again, Japanese destroyers weren't "designed" or built for escorts

Mahanian doctrine and what not

[cobalt magnet]

i heard us subs done in a lot of japanese ships

[autumn sorrel]

Mahan will be the 1st to point out IJN completely butcher his teaching

[thorn trail]

only by around 1944

before then well

🚮

I forgot what the US Sub torpedo was but it was trash

something like less than 50% chance of actually working

[autumn sorrel]

When BuOrd finally get hard enough smack in the head and finally fix the torp, that when kill start racking up

[cobalt magnet]

whos buord

[autumn sorrel]

Mk14

[thorn trail]

Oh right

[thorn trail]

Bureau of Ordinance

[autumn sorrel]

Bureau of ordinance

[thorn trail]

aka weapons development and testing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5e0Tor2kMg

[autumn sorrel]

Interwar was underfund and staff by political officer who only want to win vote

[thorn trail]

this video summarizes it pretty well

[cobalt magnet]

ill watch it when i have time

thanks yall now i have to digest this like an actual lesson

[autumn sorrel]

Had IJN actually invest in asw and adopt convoy system, their merchant marine would have last longer

[thorn trail]

wasn't just not investing in ASW

as the video points out, Japan was running out of escort ships in general

they didn't have much ships smaller than destroyers and destroyers were too needed as escorts for the main fleet that they couldn't allocate them all

Also the fact that the destroyers that they did have were getting destroyed a lot

[autumn sorrel]

Well, running Tokyo Express is a costly affair

[autumn sorrel]

Oh, they did have light carrier for convoy duty and “escort destroyer”, problem is that they belong to IJA

[thorn trail]

Ah yes. IJA vs IJN classic rivalry

[delicate beacon]

It also took them untill around the same time to learn wolfpack tactics.

[manic latch]

Turkey show their MMU prototype

[eternal veldt]

Sheesh. I missed a lot. No, the IJN did not completely ignore ASW.

It's more that the combined fleet holds massive power in the "red bricked building" - Naval Headquarters, that the pleas of the smaller escort division tends to get drowned out.

More importantly, with the US industry spooling up to speed and advancing on the home islands - something had to be done to stop the US, perhaps inflicting enough to just get out of the war with a good enough deal.

With the defeat of Operation A-Go, Japan finally allocated more resources towards protecting its merchant marine - with limited success at times, and even managed to get a sub kill or two. Granted, that's a tiny drop compared to what the US is shitting out at the time. Hydrophones and radar according to the US Naval technical mission were already developed and used in training, and multiple kaibokans are being built.

It may be too late - as the US by 1944 is absolutely tearing up the merchant marine as said with up to 3,000,000 tons of shipping lost, but Japan is far from just "hurr durr muh combined fleet no escort needed" stereotype (that I often present as well).

Ultimately, if you don't want to lose the war at all, just simply don't attack Pearl Harbor. It was a limited tactical success,and in hindsight, a gross strategic failure that cemented the US' population's view to bring the war to an unconditional end, to the point of "hang the emperor".

[thorn trail]

They attacked the US because the Philippines held a key strategic position in SEA

[eternal veldt]

Or, if you entertain that scenario, abandon the continental policy entirely (extremely unlikely given the rocky Japanese politics in the 1930s and internstional tension )

[thorn trail]

They assumed that if they attacked Malaya and Indonesia that the US would rush to the aid of the allies

[eternal veldt]

By that time the US has switched over to the Island hopping strategy already

The fanciful notion of Zengen Sakusen (gradual attrition warfare) ala Tsushima is not going to work.

The poor conduct of the IJA towards US assets and diplomats, from the Panay incident to the Allison incident, also does not help Japan at all

Or really, the whole fucking IJA as the whole.

I forgot if it is Kaigun that argued it, Tsushima brought the Japanese navy to its most glorious peak, while also partly responsible for laying its foundations for its fiery demise 40 years later.

[chilly osprey]

I think it might be, yeah

[eternal veldt]

Go figure, I mention Tsushima and Riche shows up

[spring briar]

I can make a page long list of Japanese blunders at tsushima

Mostly gunnery related

[eternal veldt]

I dont think the night torpedo attacks were that successful either

Also just sweep the previous Port Arthur oopsies under the rug

[spring briar]

The mines did the heavy lifting

Ngl

[eternal veldt]

Hatsuse and Yashima still afloat, yes yes

[chilly osprey]

Mines were the least hyped part of the Russo-Japanese war at sea, and yet one of the most important new elements

[spring briar]

Ikr

[alpine onyx]

Mine warfare in a nutshell

[eternal veldt]

Makarov dying to mines too

[spring briar]

It’s saddening

[eternal veldt]

In spectacular fashion

[spring briar]

Rip admiral Makarov

[alpine onyx]

Not as glorious to drop a mine that'll sink something six months later as it is to exchange four or five salvos with a larger ship

[eternal veldt]

Broke: deploy mines and sink a ship

Woke: load your ship up with mines and watch a CA blow your ship up with a couple shots

[chilly osprey]

Always worth remembering that Japan needed to have two ACRs stand in for battleships because they lost a third of their battleship fleet to mines

[eternal veldt]

You know who, sirene

[spring briar]

Izumo and Azuma?

Or Nisshin?

[alpine onyx]

I only know the other way around, load a CA up like mad and then watch it explode after a dozen shots

Hmm

[chilly osprey]

Nisshin and Kasuga were with the battleship line at Tsushima

[eternal veldt]

Blücher, I'm guessing?

[alpine onyx]

Ye

Poor thing

[eternal veldt]

Alright, hint for you

🐧

[spring briar]

Nisshin got 3 of her 4 barrels sliced off by russian 12” shells

[chilly osprey]

Yep

[spring briar]

The ACR’s did well ngl

[eternal veldt]

I forgot if its Hatsuse or Yashima that was nearly saved

One was blown apart quickly

[chilly osprey]

This was the role that they were designed for, after all

The Garibaldi-class were intended to be halfway between a big cruiser and a small battleship, which is why so many had 10" guns

[eternal veldt]

And no domestically built BBs at the time too as I recall

[alpine onyx]

Interesting

Poor Pinguin

The power of diesel could not save her

[spring briar]

What saved the Japanese was the excellent build quality of their BB’s ngl
And this isn’t written about enough

[chilly osprey]

For Italy or Japan?

[eternal veldt]

Japan

All five were from Britain as I recall

[chilly osprey]

Yeah

[eternal veldt]

Wasnt until Satsuma they finally made their own

[chilly osprey]

Interesting to note that in Kaigun, Evans & Peattie actually argues that one of the Japanese held out better may have just been that their foreign-built ships were simply built better than their Russian counterparts and were thus more resilient.

[eternal veldt]

Tbh, Im not sure about the materiel situation of the second squadron at that point, and I dont mean coal dust everywhere or the exaggerated circus tales that were just straight up BS

[spring briar]

What people think Tsushima was about: Japanese superior gunnery, skill and torpedo boats
What Tsushima actually was: waterline flooding, mines and the ability for IJN BB’s to absorb full order detonations

[eternal veldt]

More on the seaworthiness of the ships - for a damn long voyage like so too, with no drydocking and the likes

[spring briar]

Also somehow people think Tsushima was about no tumblehome vs tumblehome

[chilly osprey]

oof

[eternal veldt]

...odd argument

[chilly osprey]

Going back to this, worth noting this arguably was rather important to Japan's success. They ordered mostly similar ships from the British, who could build them quickly (~3 years).

One imagines that if they had already been designing and building ships at home they'd have suffered from much slower build rates like Italy did - who laid down their first pre-dreadnoughts in 1893 and did not have them in service until 1901/02.

[eternal veldt]

Id be concerned about their quality too, to be frank

Considering the later Fusos are...dunno, mediocre?

[spring briar]

And not to mention Britian was already at the stage where building their type of pre dreads was perfected

[chilly osprey]

Yep

[spring briar]

Very high build quality allowed Japanese BB’s to absorb Russian 12” bursting behind their belt

[chilly osprey]

Also worth noting that as soon as Japan does build their first BBs at home, the build time immediately gets longer (more specifically, the fitting-out process);

[eternal veldt]

Something something Nelson of the East

By virtue of supplying britbong ships

[spring briar]

Ofc, this does show that build quality does not equal steel/armor quality

French armor on Iéna was tested against similar shells to those used by the Russians at Tsushima and the belt rejected penetration

[chilly osprey]

Meanwhile in Italy;

[spring briar]

Meanwhile Russian shells penned Japanese belts at about 6-9k yards

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

But yea, going back even earlier, in general the Anglo-Japanese alliance was a great boon for Japan

[chilly osprey]

Ofc in Italy's case availability of funds also tended to impact how much construction work could be done in a year and often helped draw out construction and fitting out proccesses

[eternal veldt]

Designs, doctrine, training new officers, lots of things

[spring briar]

Similar to French and russian shipbuilding

[ivory ridge]

open NCD
they seriously believe germany will build a 176 VLS ship

[spring briar]

How much did the Italians tinker on ships while under construction actually

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-sad-sad-cat-cat-meme-gif-25617057

[chilly osprey]

I think it depends on the design, but usually not too much? There are only a handful of cases I can think of where designs changed substantially after they were ordered or started construction

The Garibaldi-class also let them experiment a lot with armaments

[manic latch]

Open NCD

No IQ

[spring briar]

The pains of laying down a pre dread in 1889, only for it to be commissioned in its final form in 1896

[chilly osprey]

Hence why the early ships have a mixed battery of 152mm and 120mm, beyond the heavy guns, while the final form would use only a 6" battery.

[spring briar]

I also remember the ruggiero di laurias having very long build times

[eternal veldt]

While on topic,remind me how long it took to build the famous five predreads for France?

[spring briar]

1890-1897

[eternal veldt]

They were handed off to different firms as I recall, hence the drastic differences

[spring briar]

Meanwhile french export ships built to the same quality being built in 4 years max

[chilly osprey]

Yep, all the Italian ironclads had kong build times liks that

[spring briar]

It’s annoying

Meanwhile britain shitting out classes of 10 in a couple years

[chilly osprey]

Money money money

And better industrial organization

[spring briar]

But hey

Atleast our shells worked

[eternal veldt]

Gotta build them to the 1860 standards

[spring briar]

I feel like people see the 5 Charles Martels and think they’d automatically lose to say, a Majestic

[eternal veldt]

Come to think of it, Britain should have done the funny and ask France to send her four Courbets up to Jutland

Parry this now Derfflinger

[spring briar]

Shells that work and can actually burst inside derff

Imagine

Courbet might need a small elevation upgrade tho

[eternal veldt]

Scheer destruction

I'll see myself out

[spring briar]

Danton vs a Konig

[ivory ridge]

Bruh

"Relatively mature"

[manic latch]

Some delays

[chilly osprey]

176 (redditor double counted cells on the render)

(render is also unofficial, 2 years old, and NOT FROM TKMS)

[ivory ridge]

Can i copy your last comment and post it under the one i screenshotted

Or you can do it yourself, same thread as comment you left

[chilly osprey]

God fucking damnit I forgot that file was weird

This is what TKMS was showing off earlier this month

[chilly osprey]

I'll hit it

[ivory ridge]

Actually i just did it myself but i mentioned i stole the comment

Plus i linked that image above

[chilly osprey]

fair lol

[ivory ridge]

Tho yeah i clearly remember that 2021 render from before

People were joking that that's where all the VLS from the last 30 years of german designs went

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, it's from this article;

https://esut.de/en/2020/01/fachbeitraege/ruestung/17877/fregatte-f127-naechste-generation-luftverteidigung/

From JANUARY 2020

[ivory ridge]

Kekw

Now for somethinf unrelated

[manic latch]

[ivory ridge]

At least they didnt steal the Oto 76 for the brits again

[manic latch]

Wait who's dis

Oh God

[ivory ridge]

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/428

[manic latch]

Project 25?

Hmm

Ok this is %100 percent comes from the projects that lead to Kronshtadt

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkpBcXNCQFw

[frigid karma]

Fucking

Quad 419s

When they add anson all the KGVs will do a fusion dance and become this creature

[dapper parcel]

I wonder where that number came from. Were there some news/publications running with that number?
I swear it's far from the first time I see someone argue that she'll get 176 cells. Asked if they mistaken it with missile loadout (4pack ESSM?) or counting all kind of launcher (RAM?, decoys?) yet they're adamant it's VLS cell count....

[chilly osprey]

It's because people were looking at this render and double-counting

That has 88 VLS cells

And has thus been haunting us for the past three years

[frigid karma]

Wonder why they don’t just say 88 rather than force us to count

Also

88, kek

[dapper parcel]

That don't even look like Mk41

With so many of them claiming the same number I thought there were some mainstream media running with that number

Or maybe just a weird ass echo chamber just like that two guy claiming Type 003 CV being nuclear

[manic latch]

She be sexy

[dapper parcel]

Lattice mast

[tough quail]

bruh

[frigid karma]

ngl that looked like some super stalingrad

[manic latch]

Super Riga

[ivory ridge]

Italian supership never

[tough quail]

yeah seriously this is getting goofy

[ivory ridge]

technically if they count the release of the Soviet cruiser line and not Petro/the CAs specifically then yes that was before the Italian line

otherwise Petro was released like a year after

Euro DDs were also after the italian CAs

[tough quail]

yeah pretty much

[ivory ridge]

then again i would rather have a super DD than a super cruiser

frankly idek how they would do a super Venezia

going to 6 turrets or quad gun turrets would be goofy af and unlikely

and you cant really make a jump and slot like

5 Napoli turrets on it

and doing 4 Napoli turrets wouldnt fit how they do superships

[manic latch]

203 to 254mm

I did

And I will do it again

[frigid karma]

they could go the ushakov route

still 15 venezia guns but something fucking stupid

[manic latch]

Tfw Ushakov actually has new guns but WG didn't bother making new shells

[ivory ridge]

just slash the reload in half

[frigid karma]

like they attach an afterburner to it

or give it 30 layers of spaced armor so all the shells disappear to the pasta dimension

[manic latch]

Barrels are /7 longer than Krem

[frigid karma]

ushakov is already broken as fuck

[ivory ridge]

i mean i would rather have a super DD because the autoloaded 135mm is a fucking meme

[frigid karma]

you can just sit broadside in front of the whole enemy team and ignore them

venezia but with garibaldi's polaris missiles

[manic latch]

Tanky ship is more tanky now ye

[ivory ridge]

imagine Regolo but with half the reload and better ballistics

[frigid karma]

molest enough destroyers and you can nuke france with the f key

[ivory ridge]

i think the italian super DD will actually lose a turret

and maybe base it off the refit CRs

[frigid karma]

isn't regolo's reload already like half of irl

[ivory ridge]

it's faster but not really half

but the autoloaded one is

even faster

[manic latch]

Dakkakdakadak

Super Elbing will be lit

203mm main guns

Or triple 150mms

[tough quail]

using elbing for that piece of shit still hurts me

the only good ship class designed under nazi germany

lets put the name on the worst design they made instead

[manic latch]

Which was for Tsar Russia

Shit he means Type 39

[tough quail]

yeah, kremlin? the uh

1940s torpedo boats?

[manic latch]

Bruv call it Type 39

[ivory ridge]

Super ship San Giorgio with 3x2 135/53 and 3 76mm per side

[tough quail]

can we get a french super DD with the quad 130s slapped on

like im giing to do in vb

[tough quail]

based

[manic latch]

If new Tier X Destroyer is Mogador with Soviet AA

Then make the Super a Kleber with Smolensk 130mm

[frigid karma]

kid named midway dive bombers

[frigid karma]

kid named thrasher homing torps

[manic latch]

Kid named Trash

[ivory ridge]

kid named i dont care

[tough quail]

qwerty being as unwanted as usual

[manic latch]

Unchained

[bronze sinew]

does anyone know the history of the wows borodino (1950 small battleship) or what project number it was, trying to find more info on it

[frigid karma]

it's on her wiki page

Borodino World of Warships is based on Design III-III-3 by TsNII-45, a variant of a proposed “small battleship” project in the early 1950s.

During the development of the Project 24 battleship in the 1950s, the design work was handed over to TsNII-45, the Shipbuilding Ministry's warship research institute. This was to allow the previous design bureau, TsKB-16, to work on the Project 82 battlecruiser, a personal favorite project of Joseph Stalin. However, Stalin became displeased with the slow pace of the work and the increasing size of Project 24. On April 18, 1950, a revised TTZ (operational-tactical requirements) was approved for the battleship, which reduced the size to that of a “medium” battleship. The Ministry of Shipbuilding sent a copy of the TTZ to TsNII-45 for analysis. TsNII-45 criticized the design, stating it was one suitable for a World War II battleship, but not taking into account recent developments.

As a result, TsNII-45 put forth a counterproposal for “small battleships”. The idea was that two or three small battleships could fulfill the same role as one large battleship or several large cruisers. Aiding them in their role was the recent developments in radio communications and radar, allowing for effective “brigade firing” against a single target. Wargames showed that an enemy ship would suffer heavy damage before one of the small battleships did so itself.

In April 1951, a meeting of naval constructors was held by the Ministry of Shipbuilding to further examine the small battleship concept. The group proposed a 457 mm main battery, with a 180 mm or 220 mm secondary battery, which would fire high-explosive shells at long ranges, disabling enemy fire control or radar as the small battleships approached a target. The group also proposed a reduced number of main battery guns, to allow protection from up to 406 mm guns as well as a displacement similar to Project 82.

Finally, it was believed that enough small battleships could be built to allow for two or three for each theater of operations. The Ministry of Shipbuilding approved the concept, and TsNII-45 sketched nine variants of the small battleship project by the end of 1951. These designs were armed with 406 mm guns, as 457 mm guns were unavailable. The main battery was concentrated on the bow, to save weight. Accordingly, most of the armor was concentrated on the forward transverse bulkheads and turret faces, with the side belt armor reduced, as the ships would be fighting bow-on. In addition, most of the variants further saved weight by a reduced amount of heavy anti-aircraft weapons – only close-ranged AA guns would be mounted on the battleships. The belief was that the heavy AA would be more effective if mounted on the escorting warships.

The Ministry of Shipbuilding favored these designs over the revised TTZ for Project 24, however the Ministry of the Navy strongly criticized them. It was ordered for both the Ministry and the Navy to jointly study both concepts. No meetings to discuss the matter took place, however, and with Stalin’s death in March of 1953, all work on both the small battleship concept and Project 24 ceased.

[bronze sinew]

oh thanks i usually dont read downwards because i dont find much helpful

awesome, project 24, thanks

[frigid karma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCqa9_ZOnT0&ab_channel=MitsiStudio

nice animation

maybe not for kids though

@humble mulch can i post this

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1636743024603480065

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1954, an AD Skyraider from VA-55 became engulfed in flames after a mishap on the deck of USS Essex (CVA-9). The pilot escaped but left the engine running. An aviation electronics technician airman climbed into the cockpit of the burning plane and shut it down.

Likes

279

Twitter · Mar 17, 2023, 2:55 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1636717043574611969

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Happy St. Patrick's Day! This is an S-3B Viking assigned to the “Shamrocks” of Sea Control Squadron Four One (VS-41) preparing for launch aboard USS Nimitz (CVN 68) in 2006. #StPatricksDay

Likes

241

Twitter · Mar 17, 2023, 1:12 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVqcQqmA3t0

[shrewd pecan]

https://twitter.com/ConeOfArc/status/1636565888571670534
https://twitter.com/H00vJu/status/1636690969796984833

ConeOfArc (@ConeOfArc)

Technically a historically accurate tank decal now

Likes

1953

Retweets

224

Twitter · Mar 17, 2023, 3:11 AM

underwater powerarmor (@H00vJu)

@ConeOfArc technically a historically accurate aurcraft decal

Likes

137

Twitter · Mar 17, 2023, 11:28 AM

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe0Aezb-I6U

[golden spindle]

Watching it love the channel

[manic latch]

No

Project 24 is Kremlin/Slava/Ushakov

Borodino's design family was a "medium battleship" as cheaper alternative to this heavy BB class

Concept was
Instead building 1 Project 24, you would build 2-3 Borodino style medium battleship instead

So when together, they would be strong as 1 Project 24

But this "medium battleship" designs were more expensive than a Stalingrad class while inferior to Iowa class, so the concept didn't lived long

[cinder escarp]

Battlecruiser moment

"it costs a lot but still loses?"

[bronze sinew]

is there a specific project number or name for this project?

im also looking around for the borodino that mounted 457s instead of 406s, not all that much info on that except that it was cancelled real fast when they didnt have 457 guns

[frigid karma]

Teddy leaves drydock

[cinder escarp]

That's... an interesting angle to shoot the pic, trying to figure out in my head where that was taken.

Great shot of Mt. Olympus the brothers though.

[frigid karma]

it's not often you see flat on side profiles of CVNs, so i figured it was worth a post

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgHCvLmKtxw

[frigid karma]

atamonica moving to alternate history

👀

[tired flower]

killswitch is based

[spring briar]

USS New Jersey (1944) vs Gloire (1860)

[storm echo]

https://youtu.be/cX6-ZR9io54

man

[rough oar]

such a sad tale for her captain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indianapolis_(CA-35)

[eternal veldt]

That likely explains why every KGV class has different lengths, all longer than design requirements too.

Heres your plates, cut them yourself

[spring briar]

Agressive looking

[humble mulch]

this goes hard

[eternal veldt]

oh look, found where the clownery started

Thanks Breyer ™️

pfffffft

The wonders of before the archives opening

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

@manic latch gaze upon your waifu's real form!

[manic latch]

Holy shit

[manic latch]

Did Germans assumed this from Sovetskaya Ukraina's hull they captured?

[eternal veldt]

Breyer believed the positions of the hull and the heavy turret barbettes are correct

the rest are conjecture based on "eastern european sources" and aerial photographs over Nikolaev

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

presumably this

At least they have the sheer correct

Rest looks a bit....German/British.

[manic latch]

Wish it was the Victory camo of Lenin but

She still manages to look sexy no matter what she wears

[manic latch]

Ngl I find this secondary layout better

[eternal veldt]

Also, kinda sad to know that the magazine I used to read as a kid basically just took the images from this book, compress it to garbage and gave it shit proportions, then published it with multiple typos.

Still not sure where this clusterfuck came from, though.

[manic latch]

GK looking mofo

[eternal veldt]

Best part is that it is labelled as 1047.

Probably still better than the shitshow that is Gouden Leeuw.

[delicate beacon]

No phallic-anorexic funnels. A bridge. Aircraft.
Yep, it's closer to P1047 than Gouden Leeuw.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1637101710823890944

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

It's #AwkwardMomentsDay. In 2014, the Portuguese Navy held a press conference with Portugal's defense minister to demonstrate their new drone. The event had an awkward moment when the drone was launched and immediately plummeted into the water.

Likes

713

Retweets

116

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 18, 2023, 2:40 PM

[tough quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213011911002816513/1086644629123895357/FrfULrKX0AMB62b.png

[weak spoke]

I say the salvage operations after Pearl Harbor was a success

[spring briar]

Nevada

[delicate beacon]

🟠 ☢️

[strong plank]

What’s the exp bonus

[alpine onyx]

50mm main deck

[spring briar]

Hey sirene

[desert agate]

50mm

Very small

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Should get surgery

Make it bigger

[manic latch]

@tough quail find this beauty again

War thunder should add it as American Pantsir

[desert agate]

The Muppet phalanx

Or whatever those trucks are called

Uh

Hemmet

Hmmt

[tough quail]

that reminds me

the vehicle roster in broken arrow is incredibly based

[frigid karma]

would it really be an american pantsir

[tough quail]

it has those funny phalanx trucks, t-14s, lancers with nukes, absolute comedy all around

also no an American pantsir doesn't really exist

[shrewd pecan]

wiping lines with B-1 lancers

[tough quail]

closest is adats

which is based however

[shrewd pecan]

No one really goes with the same doctrine as Russia when it comes to air defense

[desert agate]

America doesn't like short range air defence

No

Mid range

Stingers are short

[tough quail]

lots of other countries have comparable vehicles the US just don't

[shrewd pecan]

pantsir really shouldn’t of been added to WT

There’s not really

[tough quail]

CAS mad CAS mad

[shrewd pecan]

A lot of pantsir equivalents

[shrewd pecan]

It just made Soviet CAS more powerful

[desert agate]

Obviously but gaijin needs to buff Soviets unnecessarily somehow

[shrewd pecan]

by making the best method to counter Soviet CAS much harder to do

In terms of actual pantsir talk

There’s not really any systems that offer a similar capability in a all in one system

[tough quail]

yeah but the pantsir should be in, the actual change is they need to start shoving in those iris-t and mica trucks next patch

no CAS survives

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but those trucks

Are dependent on radars

And other systems than just the TELs

[frigid karma]

It's a twofold buff to russian cas

first all other cas get fucked, so it's a relative buff

[shrewd pecan]

Issue with pantsir is that it’s a all in one system

[frigid karma]

and other countries spawning in fighters to down them have to contend with a pantsir now

[shrewd pecan]

It can engage aircraft as they spawn tbh

[frigid karma]

also just realized you can kind of compare us spaa doctrine to us TD doctrine

[tough quail]

Bad?

[frigid karma]

"make special thing to kill tank/plane? Nah, tank/plane can kill tank/plane"

[desert agate]

Pantsir is obviously a precursor to HARM being added soon

[tough quail]

that is not TD doctrine

[desert agate]

Like

It's kinda clear

[shrewd pecan]

my F-16 eating a pantsir missile only a mere 18 KMs away from the battlefield

[tough quail]

welcome to gaijoob

[shrewd pecan]

idk gaijin just refuses to add things that make modern aircraft and helicopters actually survivable

[tough quail]

it's basically the reverse in the air

or well was freestyles shook it up a bit

[frigid karma]

it always baffles me why flares are locked behind a grind

[shrewd pecan]

Phoenix don’t really work too well unless your opponent is either in space or deciding they will fly in a straight line

[frigid karma]

that's like buying a new tank and the UFP is just gone until you grind that out

[shrewd pecan]

Pantsir missiles you can often dodge issue is having 4 of them flung at in rapid succession

[tough quail]

but the meta is still "everyone hug the ground like you're lawn mowing in Kursk so the f-14s don't snipe you"

[shrewd pecan]

Why the tomcat isn’t 12.0 I cannot tell you

All I can say is if you have a bad KD in a tomcat uninstall

[tough quail]

because Russian bias isn't a thing, it's just fotm milking

[shrewd pecan]

I’d be fine with pantsir as I said if they added the shit that makes aircraft more survivable

[tough quail]

it's why freestyles can now out drag a mig-29, they're trying to set that up as the fxp whore

[shrewd pecan]

Such as EW/jamming, F&F capability for the AH-64D so on and so on

They probably need to eventually cut to the chase and just add early AMRAAM and R-77

[tough quail]

pretty much

im not sure what the more grotesque air addition was

freestyles or the f-4s

f-4s just hordes every phantom toy under the sun while not going up in br because fuck you i guess

but freestyles have the most ridiculous energy retention known to man

[shrewd pecan]

I kinda want to grind for the Israeli phantoms

Since it’s rather clear gaijin will never give the US the systems they developed for their aircraft

Israel is likely my best chance for laser guided bombs

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pave_Knife

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pave_Spike

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LANTIRN

Literally never existed I promise

[strong plank]

Isn’t American air defense doctrine just

“Well we’re going to have to bring the Air Force with us anyway so”

Plus systems like patriot and THAAD

[shrewd pecan]

THAAD isn’t really used for fixed wind shoot downs

[strong plank]

Oh duh yea

[shrewd pecan]

As of late there working on expanding overall air defense capabilities with MML and other new systems

[strong plank]

My brain included BMD in air defense

[shrewd pecan]

there’s also the like 4 iron dome batteries the army has

[frigid karma]

Holy shit Ryan is at carrier con

[strong plank]

Then you’ve got the occasional phalanx

Since they are often installed at bases iirc

[shrewd pecan]

I’d roughly argue we should be equipping every air base in the pacific and Europe with a batteries worth of MMLs

[strong plank]

I don’t know why but the table and folding chairs just cracks me up

[shrewd pecan]

Alongside picking up systems like SLAMRAAM/NASAMs

[strong plank]

I forget, does the army operate that shorad variant of the Stryker?

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

My friend who’s deployed over in Germany is currently a crewmember on one of them

[strong plank]

Nice

[manic latch]

Yeah Osa should have been added instead Pantsir

I think China might get something Pantsir level tho

They do have many prototype of spaags

What about Type 625E

30mm cannon, 8 FB-10 missile

[shrewd pecan]

should of just given Russia a TOR

and called it a day

[manic latch]

Yeah just copy paste it from Chinese one

[shut wren]

"Prototype"

[manic latch]

Not mass produced

[shut wren]

ok ok

[hushed saffron]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet_Bat

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1637207461319802881

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

It's #AwkwardMomentsDay! During the National Day of Spain parade in 2019, a paratrooper carrying the county's flag collided with a lamppost. The paratrooper was left dangling for several minutes in front of King Felipe who is Captain General of the Spanish Armed Forces.

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 18, 2023, 9:40 PM

[rapid junco]

Admiral Togo with the Brazilian midshipmen of the training ship "Benjamin Constant" during the ship's stop at Yokohama in 1908.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1637122779953745920

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 2006, Somali pirates attacked the USS Cape St. George and USS Gonzalez. Pirate skiffs had chased a couple of small boats before opening fire on the ships with RPGs and small arms. The ships returned fire and set a pirate skiff ablaze with a .50 caliber tracer round.

Likes

944

Retweets

166

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 18, 2023, 4:04 PM

[desert agate]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-19/torres-strait-light-infantry-battalion-80th-anniversary-thursday/102113752

[storm echo]

we already have JS Kaga

Now we wait for JS Akagi

slight trolling will ensue

[frail haven]

Mitsi is fantastic.

[frigid karma]

https://warisboring.com/the-captain-of-the-carrier-uss-franklin-is-a-case-study-in-how-not-to-lead/

[autumn sorrel]

Hey Krem, did the Russian Navy have any program to upgrade soviet era wake homing torps?

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_53_torpedo

[manic latch]

This girl will be replaced by this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futlyar

[delicate beacon]

gun

[dapper parcel]

Knowing advances in sensors and electronics I'd be surprised if wake homing mode doesn't come standard (among various modes)

[autumn sorrel]

They are standard on Russian and Chinese one afaik, German and Turkey also have the same capability for theirs, not sure about US though

[autumn sorrel]

Since 2017 huh? About few decades late but at least something

[manic latch]

Well I assume most torpedo development went to the Poseidon

[frail haven]

what happened?

[autumn sorrel]

He berated the entire crew when he first take command in 1944 for failing to shot down kamikaze plane that hit the Franklin and killed many crewmen just days before, which make the bad morale situation even worse and give a bad impression among the crew.

When the Franklin was operating before it got dive bombed, the captain didn't order the crew to general quarter despite being warn by look out about approaching enemy aircraft. After it got bombed, he give confusing order about "non-essential" personel need to be move to the nearby light cruiser that was transfering damage control team and take in wounded from the Franklin, result in hundred of crew deemed themselves as non-essential and go to the other ship, while create confusion among the remaining crew, make them think abandon ship order was given. He then cancel the evac order and create even more confusion.

After Franklin limbed back to repair, he then round up the crew that "cowardly abandon ship", doing something akin to public humiliation to them. The navy did not buy his sham but they swept the matter under the rug and still give him a Navy Cross.

[manic latch]

Ship surviving saved his ass

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, had the Franklin sunk, he will be publicly flay alive

[dapper parcel]

Tbf you can get a lot of shit going on as long as you don't get your ship sunk, or grounded, or running into shit, or making the navy looks stupid.

[autumn sorrel]

But the old 53 family still in production? Last I know, USN still consider them to be legitimate threat and develop CAT countermeasure against them.

[manic latch]

Well Fizik-1 is their most modern variant ye

Fizik-2 will be the replacement of 53 family

[eternal veldt]

He also refused the pilot's help upon return to Pearl Harbor and took helm himself, then ramming the ship into said dock....

amazing person.

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/AirAssaultCat/status/1637301550514044930?s=20

AirAssaultEnjoyer (@AirAssaultCat)

I would love to have a PLA scholar explain the need for gyrocopter troops.

Likes

203

Twitter · Mar 19, 2023, 3:54 AM

[spring briar]

Love the AT missile

Does he launch it with his foot?

[desert agate]

yeah just gotta give it a kick

[autumn sorrel]

If it is NK then I could understand but why use Gyrocopter when you have proper Heli

[strong plank]

One of the higher ups saw it in an old Bond movie

[dusty kraken]

FOOT MISSILE

Undetectable by the enemy

[strong plank]

Lmao

It actually was in a Bond movie

[glass trail]

thats crazy

next thing theyre gonna make bonds car

new and improved apc

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1637527473230422021

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1945, USS Franklin was rocked by a series of explosions after two 550 bombs from a Japanese dive bomber crashed through the flight deck and ignited gas tanks and rockets. The carrier suffered 1,300 casualties but a determined effort by the surviving crew saved the ship.

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 19, 2023, 6:52 PM

[shut wren]

it looks like a cool thing to go out joyriding with the boys

[shut wren]

"Eh fuck it,It worked in the movies its gonna work in real life"-PLA higher up,probaly

[vestal willow]

Does anyone know why Takao's eyesight is said to be poor in game? I tried searching around but couldn't find any reason. She had radar (although Japanese radar, but still) and succesfully participated in night time battles, so her having bad eyesight does not immediately make sense to me

[delicate beacon]

Maybe #al-lore knows

[spiral cedar]

The single and twin mountings on Émile Bertin were all fed from the same magazine. This magazine had a single hoist that could supply 20 rounds per minute, an inadequate supply for even two guns let alone the four that she carried. This hoist ended on the upper deck and the rounds had to be carried by hand to the mountings. From the photograph above, it does not appear that there was any ready round stowage close to the mountings to supplement the supply from the hoist.

[tough quail]

that explains why i need to take six years to remove the rof debuffs

[maiden citrus]

[shut wren]

Yall so like

whats the difference between all the F-16 Blocks n shit

like Block 10 and 20

[cinder escarp]

Yes

[cinder escarp]

https://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions.html

F-16.net already covers all of them

In absurd detail

[shut wren]

[spring briar]

Kek
French AA in the 30’s moment

[dapper parcel]

20 rds per minute for 1200 rds magazine, they really plan for an hour long engagement

[maiden citrus]

yis

[dusty kraken]

you see if you shoot very slowly but constantly you'll give the pilot anxiety

[spring briar]

I will take all of your armor and shells away

[alpine onyx]

I guess that's one way to do things

[maiden citrus]

rich will strip your ship mid combat in a blur like a popeye cartoon

[cinder escarp]

AA in the '30s is in general a very funny topic

Nobody really appreciated how aircraft were actually going to be used/attack profiles, and just how hard it was to actually hit the things.

For example, the HACS AA directors in use on Force Z had a ~250kt speed limit. The IJN attack planes quite literally flew faster than the FCS was even capable of registering.

[frigid karma]

n what is perhaps the best-known example of the state of Britain's pre-war anti-aircraft capability, in a 1937 firing exercise, a radio-controlled Queen Bee drone, a converted Tiger Moth, was able to fly straight and level at 85 knots around the entire Mediterranean Fleet for over an hour without being hit by a single shell.

[alpine onyx]

Next step is to just dump fire control for the heavy AA guns, and eyeball the shots with tracers

[frigid karma]

Or what if

We put the aa gun on a plane and then fly that plane really close to the enemy plane and then shoot it

[alpine onyx]

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/Nickatgreat1220/status/1637423553665720320

David Wang (@Nickatgreat1220)

Norinco Next Gen MBT

A Slide of Presentation Disclosed Recently from an Open Speech. The Lecturer Discussed bt One of the Proposals for PLA Future MBT - Articulated ONE with UGV/UAV-assisted. The Head Can Carries Infantries & The Tail Also Carry Loitering Munitions/Missiles

Likes

348

Retweets

121

Twitter · Mar 19, 2023, 11:59 AM

[dapper parcel]

Why build two separate platform if you can make a centipede out of it

[thorn trail]

ngl the blue sign with the pic in a circle in the middle made me think first of amogus

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Land trains soon

Wait isn't that just a land train

[cinder escarp]

There are no new ideas under the sun

[dapper parcel]

Eh, at least Swedish one was arguably a single system

[shrewd pecan]

the multi hull platforms like that just seem like a absolute nightmare to maintain and transport

especially if your throwing MBT grade armor on them

[desert agate]

https://www.9news.com.au/national/former-australian-soldier-arrested-in-nsw-over-alleged-war-crime/08ac238b-72c0-445b-bedd-86a2306c9895

[shrewd pecan]

like everything you want to do with the trailer you'd be better off just tossing into a French style scouting section alongside the tank platoon

ah he's finally getting what's coming for him

[desert agate]

Yeah

Hopefully they get the rest of them too

They can rot in prison for what they did

[spring briar]

What he do?

[desert agate]

Same as the rest of them

Blooding, planting, etc

Stuff in the brererton report

[spring briar]

[dapper parcel]

Is he even actually charged with warcrime tho?
From the description it sounds like just for a crime, during war

Tbf the term "warcrime" has been conflated with a lot of unrelated things the term itself is probably already meant something else different in colloquial use

[subtle prawn]

He apparently shot an Afghan civilian

[dapper parcel]

Civilian itself is surprisingly a lot less protected under IHL

Not sure tho, been long time since I dive deep into it

[subtle prawn]

The last time somebody from here committed war crimes, the whole unit they were in got disbanded compounded with a lot of other issues in the unit, but most of the perpetrators themselves got away relatively scot free

[dapper parcel]

Pretty much, at one point I even think an individual simply can't commit a warcrime. It has to somehow related to how a war is conducted, which at minimum involves an unit

[subtle prawn]

“Peacekeeping” mission
End up torturing a civilian and photographing it

[dapper parcel]

Is it even peacekeeping if you're pretty much on one side

[desert agate]

Don't give him the benefit of the doubt mate

He's SASR

There's a lot of stories about those guys and none of them good

[shut wren]

[supple surge]

TBF peacekeeping is just a term to make war palatable. It’s still war

[desert agate]

There tends to be a distinct difference between how peacekeeping operations are conducted vs actual warfare

[slow raft]

@eternal veldt USS Nautilus plans acquired!

the NA sent along other pages with interior views, and even the updates they did in 1943 at Mare Island

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/JonHawkes275/status/1637827769085177856

Jon Hawkes (@JonHawkes275)

Ajax moving again, IOC Jul to Dec 2025, FOC Oct 2028 to Sep 2029. Still feels an awfully long way away, when over 150 are sat ready in Wales and have been there for years now.

In meantime, £480m being paid to GDUK, about half of what has been held back since issues started

Likes

233

Twitter · Mar 20, 2023, 2:45 PM

[manic latch]

Man it's scary to drive this thing

Literally becoming deaf willingly

[subtle prawn]

Apparently, they've been mitigated somewhat but

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1637872459675213824

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1945, USS Devilfish became the only sub to be struck by a kamikaze. Devilfish sighted the approaching plane and attempted to dive but the kamikaze hit the periscope shears, destroying the radar masts and causing serious leakage. The sub managed to return to Pearl Harbor.

Twitter · Mar 20, 2023, 5:43 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1637899259851751428

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1922, USS Langley (CV-1) was commissioned as the Navy's first aircraft carrier. Critics claimed that the carrier was obsolete because it was too costly and vulnerable. A century later, the same is being said about USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78). https://t.co/66LQhXezDX

Twitter · Mar 20, 2023, 7:29 PM

[strong plank]

Friend took this pic over spring break last week

[manic latch]

Will take a long long years to scrap it all I guess

[frigid karma]

they should honestly just take out anything radioactive and keep it there

it'd be a cool ruin to explore for the future

[shrewd pecan]

main issue is there's nowhere to scrap her currently

I'm a proponent of making her a museum tho that's likely never happening

[thorn trail]

Iirc they'll have to cut a hole into her to remove the reactor hence why she can't be a museum ship

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

[strong plank]

Flex tape

[shrewd pecan]

a uneconomical amount of flex tape

[slow raft]

there should be soft patches that allow for easy refueling, can probably defuel the reactor, then cut up the remaining vessel, and lift out the pieces through the soft patch holes, then build a plug in situ
but alas, I think we are full of big ship museums and I don't think we need another yet

[thorn trail]

yeah you ain't pulling up an entire nuclear reactor thru those

[shrewd pecan]

I don't really think it would be economical to reassemble her after ripping her apart to remove the reactors for obvious reasons

combined with the costs of upkeeping a museum the size of CVN-65 would basically be undoable without government funds behind it

[slow raft]

implying you didn't read what I said..
Soft patches aren't big enough to pull a reactor through, we know that.
but they can lift the fuel, and then cut up the remainder of it to pull through, like the egyptians stirring up a brain to pull it through the nose for mummification.

[thorn trail]

Yeah I read it. Cutting up an entire reactor inside is probably not feasible

[slow raft]

and yeah, likely still radioactive anyway, all hypothetical 😛

[strong plank]

I mean

You would need equipment to cut it

which would need to be brought into the ship

and into the reactor space

[thorn trail]

they're probably not cutting it up as well to prevent losing parts of the reactor

that might get unaccounted for

[slow raft]

I don't think the equipment needed would be large enough for its size to be a problem bringing it aboard a CVN

losing stuff is also a good reason

[thorn trail]

Ah. Apparently they don't remove just the reactor itself

it's the entire room itself that's removed

the entire compartment

at least that's what the nuclear subs that get decommissioned go thru

[slow raft]

that makes sense.
I spoke to one of Nautilus' crew once while I was visiting her, he told me that the sections aft of the control room that are currently blocked off for public viewing are actually ready for display, plexiglass installed and everything, but its still technically classified so until everyone they feel is a threat catches up, its closed off.

[shut wren]

we take the fuel out

and throw a bunch of boom inside the finish the reactors

then just patch it up

and boom

museum ship

[spring briar]

M14

[tough quail]

heinous

[past fiber]

Lets all appreciate the Beauty of the G3

Sadly i havent shot it yet

Can't own that stuff in Germany

[past fiber]

Smash

Helis are cool

[spring briar]

FAL

[shrewd pecan]

We have the Chinese blackhawks, Hong Kong blackhawks and the Taiwanese black hawks

Where are Macau’s blackhawks is the ultimate question

[past fiber]

G3>FAL

[spring briar]

Sadly no

[shrewd pecan]

Which way western man

[spring briar]

SA58 is sexy

Gimme

[past fiber]

The new us rifle is also a good one

[spring briar]

Mcx

[shrewd pecan]

the spear

[past fiber]

Yeah

[spring briar]

It exists

Quite punchy

But lolw the ammo

[past fiber]

It can fire .308

[shrewd pecan]

Army’s not going to be using it in 308

[past fiber]

Ik

But it can use it

[shrewd pecan]

6.8 was the main draw alongside bringing in new firearms technologies

[spring briar]

6.8

[shrewd pecan]

Main draw personally is the XM250

[past fiber]

Idk If it's better

.308 should be more commonly available

[shrewd pecan]

it has advantages and disadvantages over the M4

[spring briar]

Still can’t pen body armor the 556 couldnt

But ballistically its much better

[shrewd pecan]

In terms of 7.62 NATO I don’t think we should be going back to that

[spring briar]

Much flatter shooting

[past fiber]

The army should have adopted .50😂

[spring briar]

Leads to much better hit rates at range

[past fiber]

The only french rifle i respect

[shrewd pecan]

The addition of standard issue suppressors alongside the new scope is likely going to be the main benefits of the new NGSW guns

[spring briar]

You should let go of your useless biases ngl

[shrewd pecan]

I don’t feel like diving in the 6.8 debate since that goes all over the place

[past fiber]

Nah German engineering>>>>>

[spring briar]

No but like

For real

[past fiber]

Technically the sig spear is german

[shrewd pecan]

it’s not

[spring briar]

You’ll be much happier

And no

[past fiber]

Switzerland speaks German so it counts

[shrewd pecan]

The MCX family of weapons was entirely made by SIG US

[spring briar]

Technically the G3 is Spannish

[alpine onyx]

[past fiber]

Teutonic engineering

[shrewd pecan]

Swiss and German branches of SIG basically had nothing to do with it

[spring briar]

Sirene

[alpine onyx]

[shrewd pecan]

It’s basically three brother companies operating in three different countries when it comes to sig

[spring briar]

What now

[shrewd pecan]

“The American company is SIG Sauer, Inc. Its predecessor SIGARMS was founded in Virginia in 1985 to import and distribute SIG Sauer firearms into the United States: Its headquarters were moved to New Hampshire in 1990. This company was renamed SIG Sauer, Inc. in 2007, and since 2000 is organizationally separate from SIG Sauer GmbH.”

[spring briar]

Sig pls release new .357 sig guns

[shrewd pecan]

hope you look forward to being a SIG beta tester when it comes to their civilian products

[spring briar]

@alpine onyx you left some shells at Hartlepool

[alpine onyx]

Don't worry, the Allies left god knows how many bombs in Germany, so it counteracts

[spring briar]

Bombs are boring sirene

Shells are forever

[alpine onyx]

Pew

[alpine onyx]

The more I think about AP shells, the more they weird me out

[spring briar]

Why

[alpine onyx]

Here, have this 800-1500kg block of steel, yeet it against carbonated and/or heat treated plates up to half a meter thick so that it bends open the metal like a piece of tinfoil

[spring briar]

It shouldn’t bend it open

It first makes a crater and then plugs it

Bending only happens in very ductile steels unfit for armor

Well, depending on what you mean as bending ofc

[alpine onyx]

It's still a mind boggling amount of force at work there

[spring briar]

Yes

[strong plank]

I want to get an MCX one day

[spring briar]

But velocities that shells experience are an order of magnitude bigger than most velocities you see on a day to day basis

[strong plank]

Not necessarily the spear but one of their MCX line

[alpine onyx]

On the other hand, the right-side hole made under identical impact conditions, except for a lower striking velocity just below the NBL, has the projectile imbedded in the plate with only its lower one-third or so still inside the plate and the upper end of the projectile, again minus its AP cap and windscreen, projecting out the plate back at a small angle. The bottom of the projectile is a couple of inches (~5cm) inside the hole from the front surface. The projectile is wrecked (that is the only word for it). The hard, blunt, oval nose has some chunks missing and large cracks radiate into the body of the shell. The ductile and very tough, middle and lower body of the shell is split lengthwise nearly in two with the opposite sides offset sideways slightly. The base plug is gone, having been spit out like a seed in a lemon wedge squeezed over a glass of ice tea as the lower body was crushed and split apart; it is missing from the display, possibly broken into pieces.

From an Okun piece

[spring briar]

If humans could throw stuff not at 100 mph, but say 300 mph, we would be able to penetrate some armors

[alpine onyx]

Of a 14in shell vs 457mm plate

[alpine onyx]

And my brain doesn't really like to imagine what the fuck went on there

[spring briar]

You got the picture?

[spring briar]

Ah that one

I got here some Austro Hungarian tests

See how big of a difference tough steel makes

Where the broken chunks don’t break off

[alpine onyx]

That's what I mean with bending there

That bulge

owo

[spring briar]

Yeah once the shell has enough energy left, that bulge would simply pop out like a cork

The steel having reached it’s ultimate tensile strength

[alpine onyx]

To bend 30+cm thick plates like that just feels odd

[spring briar]

Brittle steels break

Yeah but does it feel weird to dent a piece of cardboard when you hit it with a rock?

[alpine onyx]

No, but that's what scale does to the brain

[spring briar]

Yea

Which is fascinating

[alpine onyx]

Also not everyone has a shooting range for BB guns in the backyard

But tossing a stone is ez

[spring briar]

You would understand better if you shot some guns I feel

Gunpowders are not to be messed with

[alpine onyx]

I do have my hunting license

[spring briar]

And naval guns have a ton of gunpowder propelling them

Enough to get a few hundred kilo chunk of steel moving at two or more times the speed of sound

Over only a dozen or so meters

The powers involved are insane

[alpine onyx]

Mhm

[spring briar]

I enjoy making scale models of shells and launching them at a sheet of thick cardboard or wood

They give quite similar results

[junior trench]

at extreme range, sure

but that's like

the least relevant range for a service rifle

[spring briar]

Cleve

I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt

[frigid karma]

All soldiers need exoskeletons so they can carry m2 brownings for their standard issue service rifle

[junior trench]

I mean, sure

but infantry combat remains an average of 300 meters and below

and it's just... one line still at that range

[frigid karma]

What’s the name of that new optic that makes us rifles able to engage at much longer distances?

The one on the xm5

[junior trench]

the one which doesn't actually work?

the vortex something or another

[spring briar]

16” service rifle

ELR shooters love this

[frigid karma]

That’s it thank you

[frigid karma]

Needs a sawed down carbine and bullpup version for trench combat

[shrewd pecan]

I haven't seen anything saying there's issues with Vortex's FCS

all I can really find is a Armytimes article that only cites youtube videos regarding the XM157
https://www.armytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2023/02/28/the-not-really-next-generation-weapons-program/

"There is simply no rhyme or reason to Army rifle procurement programs. Problematic programmatic choices do not stop here, however. Another problem is the weapon sight. The Vortex XM-157, which may have critical components made in China, is most definitely not an ‘auto-aiming’ sight. For guaranteed hits, the shooter still must manually ‘ping’ the target. This takes back usable seconds and makes shooting 100% accurately on the fly, as envisioned under the program to justify the reduced available round count, an utter pipe dream. The scope is otherwise a normal scope." it's just a "it might be claim" followed up with complaining that you have to laze the target before shooting

https://youtu.be/f5YWXrZdNpA

[spring briar]

Garand thumb

[strong plank]

Papa thumb himself

https://tenor.com/view/garand-thumb-night-vision-flannel-gif-15544034

[shrewd pecan]

demonstrates how the optic works so easy to go to

[frigid karma]

“It might be claim”?

What is that

[shrewd pecan]

" The Vortex XM-157, which may have critical components made in China"

its source for this

was a youtube video

[strong plank]

I love that they’re like

“Ackshually it doesn’t auto aim”

like they were somehow under the impression US had found a way to give every infantryman aimbot

[shrewd pecan]

who cares about battery life when you can just keep the laser on 24/7

[frigid karma]

And also like

Anything that is simple enough to be manufactured in China, is likely capable of being built in a U.S. factory too

[shrewd pecan]

its down to sourcing the necessary chips and other items

[frigid karma]

Especially as more and more us factories now shift to war footing for [current event]

[shrewd pecan]

if the claim is true its not the first time Chinese made chips ended up in US hardware

this is especially a issue for older platforms

[frigid karma]

When globalization and military policy collide

[shrewd pecan]

sourcing a specific chip that may or may not be in production anywhere in the globe makes a prime market for knock off or recycled chips to get into the US supply chains

XM157 from what I've seen works and does what its intended to do

in terms of talks actually in the article regarding the XM7

[frigid karma]

[shrewd pecan]

they cited another youtube video for it tho I already know 6.8s struggling against level IV armor so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt
https://youtu.be/BGL9wP8_-LI (the video in question)

[frigid karma]

mongol hordes make conventional European defensive strategies obsolete due to employing significant maneuver strategies
Chinese solution
let’s build a giant wall

[shrewd pecan]

"Civilian testing problems have, or should have, sunk the program already. The XM-5/7 as it turns out fails a single round into a mud test. Given the platform is a piston-driven rifle it now lacks gas, as the M-16 was originally designed, to blow away debris from the eject port. Possibly aiming to avoid long-term health and safety issues associated with rifle gas, Army has selected an operating system less hardy in battlefield environments. A choice understandable in certain respects, however, in the larger scheme the decision presents potentially war-losing cost/benefit analysis." holy crap he even cites the madman himself
https://youtu.be/lhFjUliSvVc

(inrange has gone down the tubes as of late if anyone knows the drama regarding WWSD)

[strong plank]

I’d heard one of their guys started beef with someone

[shrewd pecan]

its also noted that these aren't using the Army's AP round either

[shrewd pecan]

ah even in the video it does better than about 60% of other rifles when it comes to the mud test

[frigid karma]

I don’t, do tell

[shrewd pecan]

he got angry at Ian over the entire what would stoner do rifle project falling apart

alongside a few other issues regarding him

they do have this point regarding the article tho
"The fundamental problem with the program is there remains not enough tungsten available from China, as Army knows, to make the goal of making every round armor piercing even remotely feasible. The plan also assumes that the world’s by far largest supplier will have zero problems selling tungsten to America only for it to be shot back at its troops during World War III. Even making steel core penetrators would be exceedingly difficult when the time came, adding layers of complexity and time to the most time-contingent of human endeavors. In any case, most large bullet manufacturers and even Army pre-program have moved to tungsten penetrators for a reason, despite the fact it increases the cost by an order of magnitude and supply seems troubled. Perhaps Army has a solution, perhaps."

I'm not really sure exactly how much tungsten you'd require to keep the army supplied with enough AP rounds

[eternal veldt]

Whoa. So it's a simple ask and you shall receive?

[slow raft]

Yup, I found the reference number in the archive database, saw that it wasn't scanned yet, asked for them, and voila, a couple days later and they were sent to me in an email.
It has a few different interior layout cutaways, as well as the booklet of plans from her upgrade in 1943

It helped finally answer the mystery to
"what in hell is that rectangular box they added to her in the 1943 refit behind the gun deck?"

http://navsource.org/archives/08/168/0816815.jpg

The answer is "rubber boat stowage"

Also the foundations they built for the guns is pretty

[slow raft]

Always makes me chuckle that Nautilus is presented the way she is in the game but compared to other subs she's actually kinda friggin' huge, and older than the other fleet boat girls by a fair margin.

[eternal veldt]

Sheesh, a 6"

[frigid karma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWEFditK_yA&ab_channel=AnonymousWave

@shrewd pecan

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/03/20/secnav-cno-pushing-plans-to-decommission-11-warships-in-fiscal-year-2024

[slow raft]

Big Iron!

[frigid karma]

Man it's always trippy to read old us/european battles and it's like "this siege of fort x changed the fate of this entire region for decades to come and was a critical turning point in the war" and you get to the casualty report and it's like 20 people dead in 3 months

i'm pretty sure people died faster when disputing over land ownership with their neighbors at that time period

[desert agate]

US army casually forgetting the last 100 years of firearms development because... they can i guess?

cant wait for it to inevitably fail

[dapper parcel]

This isn't even a "globalization" or even supply chain problem
This is just system designers being lazy to update the BOM

I won't be surprised if it was something as silly as still specifying 74S logic instead of 74HCT or something

[shrewd pecan]

this was for a article citing purely a youtube making a claim I can't see repeated elsewhere

[frigid karma]

i'm out of the loop when it comes to that new us rifle, but iirc the issue is too much emphasis on fighting body armor and sig sauer being bad as usual?

[shrewd pecan]

rifle itself is fine

it performs just as well as anything else

complaints are mainly with it being arguably a sidegrade

[frigid karma]

hit seems to disagree

[shrewd pecan]

its battlerifle vs assault rifle

overall the differences between the M4 and XM7 likely aren't gonna really matter in the grand scheme of things

where it really counts is the XM250 and the XM157

since the XM250 is a actual upgrade over the M249 and M240

tho if it actually ends up replacing the M240 that's to be seen

since I think the M240 still has a better MOA

[dapper parcel]

It'll replace infantry M240 for sure

[shrewd pecan]

I can see it going either way

M240s likely staying in the coaxial role

tho I don't really think the weight of the M240 really matters when there gonna be in the weapons squad regardless

[dapper parcel]

That's what I mean, M240 wasn't even ever suitable for dismounts

[shrewd pecan]

eh

it fills the GPMG role well

again its being used by the weapons squad so, more accurate suppressing fires over the M249

[dapper parcel]

I still have reservation for that claim, It's one thing being good as GPMG or traditional crew served weapon
But when one is "shoehorned" into regular infantry squad...

[shrewd pecan]

yeah I'm not talking about it in the infantry squads

last thing I want to see is British style squads where everyone is carrying the heaviest weapon possible

still wonder why the Marine Corps dropped their squad level M249s

[frigid karma]

that went from 3 m249s, one for each fire team to no m249 at all?

[dapper parcel]

One fireteam still carry M249 I think

[shrewd pecan]

they have M249s I think at the company level

that get passed down as needed

[dapper parcel]

The idea was that M27 can function as suppression if needed

[shrewd pecan]

considering the pathway they went with the M27 as the new standard issue

I'm pretty convinced it was just a way of getting new rifles over a actual M249 replacement

[dapper parcel]

Well, if you sell the concept as 4 rifle that can do some suppression
instead of one dedicated suppression and basically the whole team build around it

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but all 4 of those rifles are a sidegrade over the previous M4A1s/M16s, lack the sustained firepower of the SAW and you could argue the effect would be better with 1 SAW, 3 M27s

[dapper parcel]

Tho I wonder if there are some much more fundamental policy change too
Considering that marines got into such heavy configuration due to its deployment loophole

[strong plank]

the marines wanted to give every rifleman an automatic rifle that could perform suppression

a light, automatic rifle is something they've wanted since 1999

[tough quail]

because m249s are kind of shit and it was a convenient thing to ditch to get 416s

on todays episode of well armored hulls

[shrewd pecan]

compared to the older Merkava's

the IVs hull armor is pretty comparable to other western MBTs

its able to take most HEAT rounds tho modern APFSDS its obviously going to struggle against

[tough quail]

err

no it isnt

what you see right there is what you get

[shrewd pecan]

that's

mostly apart of the engine deck roof

[cinder escarp]

Merky Merk Model IV is a lot better than the earlier merks in hull armor (oh yeah, it's merking time) but it's not good.

[shrewd pecan]

IV improved the hull armor quite considerably yeah

[cinder escarp]

But on the second pic, that is the whole hull front armor module

[tough quail]

yeah thats not the "roof"

thats the whole ass ufp

[shrewd pecan]

I was looking at it the wrong way

[tough quail]

which is more a suggestion for a round to stay out than actual armor

well, anything 120-125mm anyway

[cinder escarp]

The earlier merks were a trainwreck

sheet metal.jpg

This is the fault of the intakes and exhoost

[cinder escarp]

You can also see a little flap at the bottom here, it's this

this flap exists to allow transmission servicing, and locks the UFP module in place.

A shocking amount of the Merkava IV's design has made it past the IDF's normally incredible censorship

[tough quail]

do we have an actual measurement of how thick that is

[cinder escarp]

ofc no

[tough quail]

well i mean has anyone done the math using other stuff for scale

[cinder escarp]

oh sure, but it's not really thick enough no matter what it's made of to truly matter.

[tough quail]

i figured yeah

i didnt know until now that the engine is majority aluminum too so

lul

[shrewd pecan]

from what I can tell

APFSDS unless its particularly shit it's not gonna withstand