history

[tough quail]

plus judging a tank based on whether or nit it'll get dunked on by javelins from above is kind of a useless metric because every single mbt in service or beginning production atm will

[glass trail]

the citizens will be more of a danger than the actual military

[scarlet ledge]

"ask not what you can do to the tank, ask what the tank can do for you"

[shrewd pecan]

the main threat are mainly the North Korean military, special forces and stay behind armies

[scarlet ledge]

a T-62 that underwent cosmetic surgery is better than nothing to be completely honest

[shrewd pecan]

no because that T-62s is now completely useless

the gunner and commander don't even have optics

how the fuck are they meant to operate

[scarlet ledge]

skill lmao

just use third person bro

[glass trail]

real

[shrewd pecan]

fuckers are more blind than a mark IV

[scarlet ledge]

when i'm in a blindness competition and my opponent is the crew of that new north korean mbt

[glass trail]

for all we know, their soldiers all have knee problems from all that ceremonial marching, the moment bad weather happens theyre screwed

[scarlet ledge]

if north korea actually fights another war i bet they'll just spam chonma-hos and B-5s

i mean it works in wargame red dragon how much different is real life

[shrewd pecan]

in real life a B-5 doesn't eat missiles with the equivalent tnt mass to render them into individual pieces of scraps

[scarlet ledge]

Pvt. Kim of the ROK Ground Forces vs 4000 glorious chonma-hos of the supreme leader

25 point mbt spam enjoyer vs beta male 200 point super heavy fan

bonus points for spamming 5 point ww2 tanks

[shrewd pecan]

sorry but I'm BLUFORs greatest artillery spammer

[scarlet ledge]

⁉️ major skill issue on behalf of redfor

[shrewd pecan]

this match was just funny

[glass trail]

scary

[scarlet ledge]

bro what kind of player loses a udaloy to land arty

[tough quail]

need too much ridalin to stomach wargame, the pacing is awful

[shrewd pecan]

so this was in a 10v10 strait to the point match where I got bored

and just started killing ships with my Eurocorps support deck

one combined barrage of 8 M270s and 8 M110s is able to kill most ships

tho most of my matches just descend into this type of crap

god I love base rushing with rooikats

somewhere I have a screenshot of me killing ships with marder 2s

[glass trail]

im so confused

[scarlet ledge]

really is the eugen systems game of all time

[scarlet ledge]

wheeled tank players spawncamping in the first 2 minutes

[shrewd pecan]

there stupidly easy to kill

Tho punishing if you don’t guard your flanks

[scarlet ledge]

i wonder if the WMA301 is available in wgrd

[shrewd pecan]

It’s not

[scarlet ledge]

wma at 8.7 truly is a gaijin moment

[shrewd pecan]

You can kill that thing with 7.62

man the fuck are even my old ATACM kill logs

so many of my screenshots are just ATACMs kill logs

truly gods greatest missile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS

[frigid karma]

ok, yknow what i wanna see

ww1 dogfighting games with semi auto pistols and rifles

One day, after our reconnaissance over Mons and Charleroi, Jackson spotted a German Taube machine. I had also seen him but we had done our job and I did not want a fight. Jackson was always bloodhirsty, however, and the following shouted conversation ensued:

Jackson: 'Look, old boy!'

Me: 'Yes, I know.’

Jackson: ‘I think we ought to go for him, old boy.’

Me: 'Better get home with your report.'

Jackson: 'I think we ought to go for him, old boy.'

Me: 'All right.' "

"I changed course for him and, as we passed the Taube, Jackson got in two shots with the rifle. We turned and passed each other again with no obvious result. This happened three or four times. Then, ‘Have you got a revolver, old boy? My ammunition's all gone.’ I, feeling rather sick of the proceedings, said ‘Yes. But no ammo.’ ‘Give it to me, old boy, and this time fly past him as close as you can.’ I carried out instructions and, to my amazement, as soon as we got opposite the Taube, Jackson, with my Army issue revolver grasped by the barrel, threw it at the Taube's propeller. Of course it missed and then, honour satisfied, we turned for home. "

an excerpt from what is probably the most appalling frontend i have ever seen in my life

https://www.rifleman.org.uk/RFC_use_of_Rifles.html

even fully zoomed out, there are some sections of text not readable

training zeppelin targets for rifled airmen

[desert agate]

nooo not the bongo

bro that rifle is fucking huge

[strong plank]

yea bc it’s a 20mm grenade launcher with a rifle bolted on underneath

[scarlet ledge]

900 dock space

[manic latch]

Nah

It's a....lengthened T-72 with lot of cosmetics

Wish they didn't put the smoke launchers there since it shows that "Abrams Cheek" is hollow at back

[shrewd pecan]

they don't really have that many T-72s compared to their T-62 developments

additionally it wouldn't be the first T-62 they modified the running gear first

[manic latch]

That makes sense too I guess

[shrewd pecan]

the Ch'ŏnma-ho has one less roadwheel compared to the 6 on the standard T-62

lemme correct myself (I woke myself up after I got like 20 notifications for bidens surprise visit to Ukraine)

its the other way around

[manic latch]

Wrong. Teamkill is disabled so Javelins can't hurt Abrams

[shrewd pecan]

Ch'ŏnma-ho got a additional one in later versions

[manic latch]

Yeah more wheels

[manic latch]

Nah Man White house can't lie. Surely it's Poland

[shrewd pecan]

no he's in Kyiv

[manic latch]

Yes I was joking

White house said he would be in Poland

[shrewd pecan]

tho the M2020s just

all over the place

in terms of influences

as I mentioned earlier

the gunner and commander literally have method of looking outside of the tank

[manic latch]

I thinks optics are fake

Wish they didn't close those

If they are real of course

[shrewd pecan]

they don't have a visible way of opening

[manic latch]

Maybe like

Riveted from outside like old Soviet tanks

[shrewd pecan]

and like if there unwilling to show off the optics

what is the bizarre ass steps of

"we have APS before we have thermal optics!"

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

APS mounts are also just bizarre

since they cut right into the turret armor

[manic latch]

Kinda curious they choose outside ATGM instead barrel launch variant, tho I guess it's stronger when it's not barrel launched one

[shrewd pecan]

multiple reasons

[ivory ridge]

Isnt that the smoke

Not aps

[shrewd pecan]

such as the kornet being actual able to kill most tanks in the South besides the like M1A2 SEP VIII and VII

[ivory ridge]

[shrewd pecan]

then why does it have

the APS radars

and why do they look like the T-14s APSs

[manic latch]

Fack Tato is faster

[ivory ridge]

[shrewd pecan]

tho for all we know there just plastic tubes but who the fuck knows since North Korea was able to produce a S-300 copy out of nowhere

[manic latch]

I think these were the smokes?

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

now again

this is a tank I am convinced is fake

tho its notable how they manage to make most of the details look correct while not managing to make the gunners dog house and the commanders CIT actually look correct

[manic latch]

True Parade vehicle after all then

Tho what if only some parts are fake

[shrewd pecan]

🤨 also how the fuck is that RWS meant to work

[manic latch]

New model but weaker than it promises

[shrewd pecan]

shits just a box with a AGS-30 on top

[manic latch]

F

Least impressive next gen MBT

[shrewd pecan]

CIT also just seems off

in terms of placement

its right behind the gunners dog house

I can't actually tell how many people are meant to be in this tank

since it looks like a 4 man crew if the CITs right there

since the CIT is almost always placed on the opposite side of the gunners dog house

and I don't know why they'd double them up beyond the commander being there

[frigid karma]

2007 martini henry in afghanistan

[dusty kraken]

are you saying that they're still making martini henry rifles in 2007?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jdd-yUNfHg

[eternal veldt]

@maiden citrus

[desert agate]

oi silver

you didnt ping me you bitch

thats Sydney harbour

https://twitter.com/DramaWarship/status/1627404357217009670?s=20

Warship Drama (@DramaWarship)

Date: August 06, 1925. Location: The Sydney Harbour, Australia. Event: The USN squadron of 8 battleships is departing Sydney for New Zealand after a 14-day long stay. Two vessels of the Colorado-class are pictured here. Photo by Samuel Hood.

Likes

131

Twitter · Feb 19, 2023, 8:26 PM

[subtle prawn]

Implacable arrives in Sydney in 1945 with 2,200 Australian Army personnel on board, having transported them from Borneo. (Author’s collection)

[eternal veldt]

I see we follow the same guy

[shut wren]

dont blame the messanger

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/515583624083406848/1077050796547522671/IMG_2573.jpg

Funny french man In DMs has spoken

[shut wren]

this looks so much like a model kit

[alpine onyx]

It does show the individual craddles nicely

Precious turret

I'll take six please

[shut wren]

Btw this is for Tato

[frigid karma]

from the gerald r ford explosive tests

[shut wren]

From deck?

[desert agate]

thats an...

odd photo

[strong plank]

Gojira awakens

[shrewd pecan]

Man’s the aftermath of a encounter between the USN and a alien cargo ship, XCOMs about to dive deep

[frigid karma]

it's the split second after the explosion

looked cool

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/Anthrax_In_UK/status/1627467970115956736?s=20

AWACS Anthrax🇦🇺 (@Anthrax_In_UK)

The Centurion tank is so funny, it was designed in 1943, rolled off into production a few months too late to see ww2, and is still in service today with modernised variants like the Olifant

Likes

178

Twitter · Feb 20, 2023, 12:39 AM

[maiden citrus]

Standards detected

[wintry moat]

Who is this?

Which ship

[spiral cedar]

Tennessee I believe

http://www.modelwarships.com/features/archives/tennesse-bb43/20.jpg

[maiden citrus]

does look to be the case based on bofors placement etc

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1627744020418990105

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1962, LtCol John Glenn orbited the earth three times. Glenn earned only $8 which included his basic pay, flight pay, BAS and BAQ. The 5 hour flight was not long enough to earn a per diem. Plus he was not reimbursed for mileage because he flew a government vehicle.

Likes

116

Twitter · Feb 20, 2023, 6:56 PM

[spring briar]

Mercury

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1627803486480920578

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1942, Butch O'Hare became an ace when he shot down five bombers attacking USS Lexington. His father had been Capone's lawyer but was gunned down after helping prosecutors convict Scarface of tax evasion. Butch was KIA in 1943. O'Hare Airport is named in his honor. #MoHMonday

Twitter · Feb 20, 2023, 10:52 PM

[manic latch]

Oh God

Saw the video of A-6's "crew sucking" incident of USS Theodore Roosevelt from 1991

Jets are scary

[deep apex]

Yeah uh don't stand in front of the intake

[manic latch]

Still fucking impressive he survived

[delicate beacon]

Italian 75mm M 1912, IJmuiden

[manic latch]

Looks sad

[delicate beacon]

Well the Germans brought it over. Seems like it was treated like yunk

[strong plank]

you know what's crazy

we still barely know anything about the helo the seals used to dome Bin Laden back in 2011

[manic latch]

Yeah

Only its broken tail

[fervent wyvern]

Whomst

[manic latch]

It does remind me a Hawker Typhoon but it's not

[hushed saffron]

Oh

A Firefly

neato

[scarlet ledge]

fairey firefly

[scarlet ledge]

nah rockstar games ahead of the pack 🤑

just noticed the fact the stealth annihilator is marked both "MARINES" and "UNITED STATES ARMY" simultaneously

i had literally never noticed that before going on the gta wiki for my shitty joke

R* please fix

THE MOST UNPLAYABLE VEHICLE IN GTA ONLINE ‼️

[manic latch]

Oh damn it was the Firefly indeed

But I'm curious about those barrels sticking out

Since some variants don't have that

[scarlet ledge]

probably 20mm guns

[scarlet ledge]

looks like a radar

[fervent wyvern]

So fighter?

Also is it any good

[frigid karma]

[frigid karma]

most good fighters these days you run for the rockets

[fervent wyvern]

I dunno
I use sea hornets and tigercats

[junior trench]

Hispano V has shorter barrels which don't protrude

[frigid karma]

@eternal veldt i recall there being a claim somewhere that buord was responsible for the battle of tassafaronga because they claimed that japanese couldn't build a better torpedo than the USN

i recall reading about it somewhere, but i can't find it now

or do you think jaba would know more about this?

closest thing i found was this

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2019/april/massive-torpedo

but i recall there being something about racial discrimination in that argument

which is the more important part of what i'm looking for anyways

[eternal veldt]

Odd take, since responsibility of Tassafaronga also fell on the cohesiveness of the units (i.e. the Desdivs not working well with Crudiv)

But I dont remember that argument. Sorry.

[frigid karma]

well, tassafaronga was a multifaceted disaster

but one of the reasons was basically buord saying "those stinky japanese could never build a torpedo as good as the US! you're ok"

and then the captains proceeded to full potato

[tough quail]

kind of a common thing across every ww2 front

US would be no different

[frigid karma]

yeah but what i'm specifically looking for is a series of times the US's racism towards the japanese blew up in their faces

[eternal veldt]

Complacency was what led to Savo, to be honest

[frigid karma]

"wHo HaD rAdAr"

[eternal veldt]

And to nobody's surprise, McCunter was involved

[frigid karma]

dw i brought up dugout doug plenty of times in my writeup

[eternal veldt]

But yea, everyone has that moment

Still laughing at the HACS

[frigid karma]

problem is typically the problems with US racism is limited to discussions on blacks, and the japanese internment camps

it's understandably a bit harder to measure such effects in wartime, but i'm 99% sure

[eternal veldt]

My guy, you know full well what Halsey's slogans entail

Racism is rampant

[frigid karma]

That's obvious

what i'm looking for is times in which that racism had dire consequences for military actions

[tough quail]

hard to say conclusively as it tends not to uh, end up in an after action report

im sure the baffling response in the phillippines at the start of the war had a lot to do with disregarding stinky asians being a threat

[desert agate]

The entire Malaysia/Singapore campaign especially the loss of Prince of Wales and Repulse

[frigid karma]

im on a us-centric debate here

[tough quail]

blame the us for force z

[frigid karma]

basically im trying to prove to somebody that american hyper racism in ww2 did cause fuckups

[tough quail]

godspeed

[desert agate]

Well the war in the Pacific was started by the US so it's obvious that it was their fault

[frigid karma]

tassafaronga, i think, is one of the more provable ones since you have buord going "bro it's fine, stinky nippons cant build dildos for shit"

[tough quail]

chad

[frigid karma]

something something brewster buffalo

[tough quail]

u see

the us was actually going to back japan

but they're racist and figured chinese dudes were the same thing

and sent them all the fun stuff instead by accident

[frigid karma]

the japanese wanted to emulate american colonialism and to do that they massacred every buffalo they could see

[tough quail]

[frigid karma]

"we heard you were fighting the fucking redcoats over something opium, here's a fuck ton of fighters"

"ehh...xie xie?"

eh, i'll just halfass and go with that usni link if ound

woke up at 3 today can't be arsed to stay up much longer

[desert agate]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townsville_mutiny

@frigid karma you may find this interesting

[frigid karma]

race riots, ofc

[desert agate]

The Americans were security mad. Every dockyard worker on board had a rating allocated to watch him full time, and if he was welding on a bulkhead, he had two. One in the compartment he was in, and one in the compartment which backed on to it, both armed with fire extinguishers. As there were a lot of them, and they worked right through in shifts, they put quite a stain on our manpower.
The American Naval Authorities could not do anything about this arrangement as it was a civil law, and out of their hands. After much argument’ it was arranged that they would supply working parties to help with the handling of the re-armament stores And when they did, that started a real fire storm.
Remember we were in West* Virginia, the birthplace of rabid segregationists and the Klu Klux Klan, who were still, apparently alive and well. We had already found that public transport, restaurants, and every other public facility were plainly marked, ‘Whites Only’ and ‘Others’. So when the first working party arrived at the gangway, it was not surprising to see they were negroes, escorted by four white naval NCOs complete with side arms and batons.
When the O.O.W. refused them permission to come aboard carrying arms, in which he included the batons, he was asked, in less than polite terms,” how do you expect us to keep these black ‘B’s in order without guns”. The O.O.W. was adamant, and it finished up with a big con-flab between Capt. McIntosh and the base Senior Officer, with I believe, signals to and from Admiralty. They must have backed McIntosh, because from there on the work party arrived at the ship, complete with armed escort, who then turned them over to the O.O.W, did an about turn and departed, no doubt spitting and spluttering about the damm limeys giving the F**** black B*** ideas above their station.
These working parties worked with however many of the ship’s company could be mustered, but it took them a while to feel at ease working alongside, and doing the same jobs as ‘you mad whities’ as they called us. And they did work, hard. Perhaps we sowed the seeds of a cultural revolution, This discrimination caused quite a few fights ashore, and as the American Naval Police were so bigoted, we instituted our own shore patrols to work with them.
Jim I. Gallie, RN, (HMS Victorious from Mar. 29, 1941 to Sept. 12, 1945): Manuscript

[frigid karma]

[spiral cedar]

Albert Einstein’s 1943 letter to the Bureau of Ordnance telling them their torpedo contact fuze doesn’t work and how to fix it

[deep apex]

If you have to convince them, they're beyond the point of no return

[strong plank]

Most operational failures, at least as far as Guadalcanal is concerned, were mostly due to captains still figuring out how to actually use the tech advantage they had afaik

like, having better radar but assuming its range is longer than it is, or not factoring in ships with newer SG radar into your strategy

[spring briar]

BuOrd destroyed

[frigid karma]

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1627890812133441536?t=S3BG4E2zeVj7I58AAhoOvA&s=19

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 2008, USS Lake Erie (CG 70) launched a modified Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) to destroy a non-functioning National Reconnaissance Office satellite during Operation Burnt Frost. It was feared that an uncontrolled re-entry of the satellite could release toxic hydrazine fuel.

Twitter · Feb 21, 2023, 4:39 AM

[manic latch]

Supports Healthcare= communist

[ivory ridge]

Correct

[shrewd pecan]

being charged over 1k for a emergency room visit right in the middle of changing health insurance makes you the type of person who want's to do a Johnny Silverhand against a healthcare company

[desert agate]

Communism is when the government gives people healthcare and the more healthcare the government gives people the more communister it is. My plan is to use this money to give healthcare to every man, woman and child in the world and therefore force them to adopt communism. I will ensure that the government takes every toothbrush, every iphone and every stock market and burns them along with every starving Ukrainian. Once the Soviet Union stands supreme as leader of the worlds nation and the top provider of healthcare I will rename the earth to Venezuela and inflate our currency to the end of time. To destroy all of the small business owners and mom and pop landlords, I have my shagohad tank which will reign a nuclear fire on a new, red world.

[manic latch]

The fact this is not a copy paste meme kinda worries me Spon

[shrewd pecan]

his plan

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/TaskForce72Aust/status/1627955827410882565?t=whhwiSDTbWAV6IYgQuzrjQ&s=19

TF72Aust (@TaskForce72Aust)

The Akuna was a a pilot vessel operating on Port Phillip Bay from 1925 to 1956. Prior to that she had been the HMAS Una & was originally the German government vessel Komet, captured by the @Australian_Navy in October 1914 with the capture of German New Guinea by Australian forces

Twitter · Feb 21, 2023, 8:58 AM

[manic latch]

Chinese Unmanned ATV and launcher of kamikaze drone

HHQ-9B firing from a Type-55

[scarlet ledge]

most eventful day in townsville history

[desert agate]

Least crime filled day in Townsville

[sweet barn]

this is probably the best place for this, anyone else see the news about Albacore?https://www.nbc15.com/2023/02/21/us-submarine-lost-during-wwii-found-nearly-80-years-later/

[spiral cedar]

Yes

[remote monolith]

mhm, been out for a few days

[delicate beacon]

1431 results

5 results per page.

Welp, this is going to be fun

[tribal mortar]

Does Taihou have a bad damage control?

[eternal veldt]

Inexperienced crew, yes

But they were not oblivious to the issue, and the crew was frantically trying to get the gas away from the ship as soon as they realized the avgas is spreading across the ship

People were shouting that avgas is everywhere, and the crew was desperately smashing portholes open to get as much fresh air in as possible

Though, it was allegedly a boot's contact with the floor that created sparks that really blew the whole ship apart.

[delicate beacon]

The next itteration of the design came with bootless crews. Issue solved.

[eternal veldt]

Other popular theories are plane landing sparks, sparks from smashing shit, or wire sparks

Ultimately unlikely to be ever 100% properly determined, much like Hood, due to catastrophic casualties

[vestal delta]

World War II or the Second World War, often abbreviated as WWII or WW2, was a global conflict that lasted from 1939 to 1945. The vast majority of the world's countries, including all of the great powers, fought as part of two opposing military alliances: the Allies (led by the Soviet Union, United States, United Kingdom, and China) and the Axis (led by Germany, Japan, and Italy). Many participants threw their economic, industrial, and scientific capabilities behind this total war, blurring the distinction between civilian and military resources. Aircraft played a major role, enabling the strategic bombing of population centres and the delivery of the only two nuclear weapons ever used in war.

[eternal veldt]

Or just simply...train your men.

Oh wait, they're all dead.

[dapper parcel]

It's almost inconsequential figuring out where the spark came from. It's a ship, there will be sparks from random things. You don't suppress the spark. The problem was that the fume is allowed to be in such concentration to be explosive.

[eternal veldt]

Or, if we dive deeper, how the leak occurred in the first place

as there are some peopleTaihou's designer himself admited in a post-war academic conference at MIT that the welds around the avgas tanks may be faulty

oh, and before shitting on damage control, it should also be noted that Albacore's torpedo jammed Taiho's elevator; with avgas leaking, the utmost urgency should be venting that gas asap, but, in order to quickly get the second wave into the air, orders were to use emergency planks, tables and even chairs, whatever they have on hand to uh....seal the gaping hole shut so the second wave can take off.

Taihou effectively cornered herself into that perilous position.

[eternal veldt]

lung cancer, anyone?

[shut wren]

Is for me?👉 😯 👈

[desert agate]

Thanks..?

[ivory ridge]

You're welcome

[alpine onyx]

Always learning new things every day

[frigid karma]

1939

Time to play Devil’s Advocate

[alpine onyx]

In 1939 things did escalate to becoming a World War in the sense of the word, even if things were happening before that

So it's... kinda correct? Ish?

Kinda how sometimes people argue about WW1 only getting the WW title when the US formally entered, because it started as the biweekly European head bashing

[maiden citrus]

'war is cool, it lets you become an adult!'

[alpine onyx]

Sometimes

Sometimes it makes you a child for lifetime

[frigid karma]

“You're inches away from death every time you go on a mission. How much older can you be at your age."

[chilly osprey]

1939 works best as a date because that's really when things kicked off into a high-intensity war fought across the globe

Otherwise, if you include localized conflicts, you end up with a series of escalating conflicts that bring you back to 1914.

i.e. the 'it was just another 30 years war' thing

Ex, if we count the Second Sino-Japanese War, then we can push the start date back to 1937 - but that was also local to Chinese waters and the Chinese mainland. And we may as well at that point push the date back to 1936 or even 1935, with the Axis involvement in the Spanish Civil War and the Italian invasion of Ethiopia.

Both of which were still pretty localized.

But 1939 is pretty clearly the point where the war goes so global that it's being fought pretty much everywhere.

[frigid karma]

And then there’s the fact that prior to 1941, the war in China and the war in Europe would be considered separate

[chilly osprey]

Yup

[frigid karma]

The biggest relation between the two is some German support to China

[chilly osprey]

Though the 'European' War already stretched as far east as the Indian Ocean and Pacific anyways, particularly after June 1940

[alpine onyx]

With Speeeeeee doing her stuff, South American waters were also involved

And quite sure the raiders also went to the South African regions

[chilly osprey]

Yup

Also after June 1940, the British are fighting the Italians in East Africa and the Red Sea through to the spring of 1941, and then you have Italian submarines circumnavigating Africa - and a surface ship escaping to Japan

Oh, yes, and then there's also the brief Anglo-Iraqi war in May 1941

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1628063598814568449

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Today is #PancakeDay! During WWII, the experimental Vought V-173 "Flying Pancake" was developed into the Vought XF5U "Flying Flapjack" as a potential U.S. Navy short take-off and landing (STOL) fighter. The program was canceled because of advancements in jet technology.

Twitter · Feb 21, 2023, 4:06 PM

[maiden citrus]

[alpine onyx]

🥞

[delicate beacon]

Scheer gave the Dutch quite the headache.

[rapid junco]

78 years of the conquest of Monte Castello

https://twitter.com/exercitooficial/status/1628026765296672770

Exército Brasileiro 🇧🇷 (@exercitooficial)

O Brasil não foi à guerra, mas a guerra chegou ao Brasil quando nossa soberania foi ultrajada e nossa neutralidade foi desrespeitada.
O Exército Brasileiro teve um papel fundamental na história do conflito.
Relembramos hoje os 78 anos da tomada de Monte Castelo.

Likes

587

Twitter · Feb 21, 2023, 1:40 PM

[rapid junco]

This remember me of a story told by Lieutenant Cardoso de Castro
In 1939, he was embarked in Jaceguay (a hydrographic survey vessel)
They were surveying the Búzios Sound, and near Cold Cape, in the dawn quarter, the officer on the watch reported seeing a figure that initially resembled terra firma but as time passed, seemed to be a large warship, navigating on blackout.
The ship interrogated "What ship?" via signal lamp.
Jaceguay answered: "Brazilian Navy hydrographic ship Jaceguay"
But also asked "And your name?".
The warship didn't gave any answers, it changed course and disappeared

A few days later, the Battle of the River Plate happened
Cardoso ends the story with the question
"Who Jaceguay could've met? the British, that made that question with purpose of finding possible enemies, or the German, fearing that Jaceguay could be one of its hunters?"

[maiden citrus]

interesting

[rapid junco]

And not so related

[alpine onyx]

Could be very related, I'll look into Spee's diary later since I assume it's related to her, and see if they make a mention of that

Alternatively, the German ship met up with Altmark every now and then and she would definitely not want to get unwanted attention

[rapid junco]

I was going to talk about another thing

That is not related to this story
But related to Spee

[alpine onyx]

Oh

Whelp, joys of text chat

[rapid junco]

When Lieutenant Leôncio Martins was ferrying riverine monitor Paraguassú from Rio de Janeiro to Ládario (1940)
A journey that starts at Rio de Janeiro, goes to the mouth of the River Plate and goes up into the Paraguay river
Paraguassú made a stopover at Montevideo
Where HMS Ajax was also docked
Martins had the chance of visiting Ajax

I talked about it here

It's on the same book i took Cardoso's story
Brazilian Naval Tales

And here as well

Cabo Frio is on the red pin

[desert agate]

oops fuck

wrong tweet

https://twitter.com/space_osint/status/1628066492020391936?s=20

Aerospace Intelligence (@space_osint)

Finally, the selfie of the U-2S Dragon Lady pilot with the Chinese surveillance balloon above the continental United States.

Likes

1995

Retweets

414

Twitter · Feb 21, 2023, 4:17 PM

[spring briar]

Gloire

[ivory ridge]

razzle dazzle

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/JonHawkes275/status/1627974385985368065

Jon Hawkes (@JonHawkes275)

K2ME, a v. notional concept of Middle East focused export version of K2. Includes improved cooling & filtering, APS integration (generic concept, here a Trophy), new passive/reactive armour. Weight of c.60t.

Pics courtesy of Janes' tank supremo at #IDEX2023, @Rivet_Counter

Likes

190

Twitter · Feb 21, 2023, 10:11 AM

[tribal mortar]

i wonder if anyone is actually gonna buy those

[shrewd pecan]

it's a possibility

Egypt's considering the K2

with South Korean licensed production agreements there's plenty of potential buyers in the ME

[frigid karma]

K2 vs merkava?

[shrewd pecan]

more like K2 vs whatever war crime adventure the Saudis pay the Egyptians to go on

ah

"but it differs from the original version, among others: longer hull length, addition of another, seventh pair of road wheels, ammunition storage isolated from the crew, additional armor of the turret and hull by adding detachable panels of layered armor, and in the case of the drive compartment, a mesh and bar armor, designed to protect against HEAT projectiles."

they really are getting Poland the best K2

[frigid karma]

@ivory ridge i need that video of bismarck flaws

asap

you know th eone

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/754162364718514226/898664145476522035/bismarck_vs_history.mp4

[frigid karma]

much needed reinforcements, thank you

there's not a lot of critical thought in that video but also

not a lot of critical thought in who i'm arguing with rn tbf

[shrewd pecan]

now a similar video on Otto Von Bismarck and how he paved the road for the destruction of the German Empire 👁️

[manic latch]

Say

Why did Bismarck go this way despite experiences from Scharn sisters

They make the freeboard higher on Bismarck after Scharn experince but I assume it wasn't enough

[frigid karma]

Something something Austria something something concert something Africa

Did I get most of it?

[shrewd pecan]

throw in his hatred for the French and constant attempts to alienate them

the reliance on Prussian militarism

[frigid karma]

Redundant and pointing out the obvious

[shrewd pecan]

etc etc

[frigid karma]

You may as well point out he was from Prussia

[shrewd pecan]

true

[frigid karma]

Turns out rabid militarism whether under Wilhelm or Bismarck is a

Bad

Idea

Bismarck sadly got away with it and has his dick sucked because France went full pepega

[sullen canyon]

Bismarck was just your typical setup of German Overengineering by overlooking the most basic flaws here and there and just making it end up into a paper tiger of sorts that only got a lucky shot on the Hood

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1628183900953485312

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1945, USS Saratoga (CV-3) was set ablaze after six Japanese planes scored five hits on the carrier within three minutes. 123 sailors were lost and another 192 wounded. 40 of the carrier's aircraft were destroyed. The crew got the fires under control and saved the ship.

Twitter · Feb 22, 2023, 12:04 AM

[eternal veldt]

@maiden citrus I've seen the R-class talk elsewhere, not sure if you have seen this gem yet.

[maiden citrus]

poggers

[eternal veldt]

Also, the British two-tone scheme on the R-class is fucking deadly. exceptionally good looking.

[tough quail]

correct

[eternal veldt]

Of course horses comes at the slightest mention of Arkhangelsk.

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/X1W8iz8DyRw
https://youtu.be/qFANjlr4I9Q

[subtle prawn]

In the side protection system, the empty bulge was outboard of the ship’s double bottom, which formed a water layer. Inboard of it was an oil tank, then the torpedo bulkhead, then an inner oil tank and then either an air space before a boiler room or a wing engine room without an air space. Water protection compartments were full, so in theory the ship’s side protection system was as effective as it could be. Oil fuel compartments were nearly full. Because no underwater attack was expected, side scuttles were open for ventilation, with light-excluding ventilators to maintain blackout conditions. Watertight doors were generally closed and clipped, except for some left open for normal harbour work.```

The third hit was abreast the boiler rooms. It collapsed the inboard oil fuel tank (inboard of the torpedo bulkhead), causing a flash visible at the funnel casing. There was no evidence, however, that the torpedo bulkhead itself had been defeated. The fourth hit was probably at the starboard wing engine room. It defeated the torpedo bulkhead there, probably because the oil tank there was full. It created a fine spray of oil, which vaporised and ignited, venting through the engine room hatches. It burned Marines in their mess. It appeared that this was the most severe explosion and that it may also have broken through the centreline engine room bulkhead.

The ship sank twenty-five minutes after the first explosion and thirteen after the second. The Board did not consider that closing the scuttles and deadlights would have saved the ship, although it would have slowed her sinking and thus probably would have allowed more men to escape. In retrospect it seems likely that the crucial factor was the presence of longitudinal bulkheads dividing up the engine room, so that a wing compartment could flood rapidly to create not only a sudden list but a considerable momentum. The official summary of war damage added that the incident emphasised the need for ships to be kept watertight up to about 8ft above the deep waterline.

The experience of HMS Resolution confirmed that a single torpedo would not have been fatal. She was hit abreast the forward boiler room off Dakar on 25 September 1940. The full depth of the bulge structure was wrecked over a length of 50ft; bulge compartments were flooded over a length of 80ft. The forward boiler room and some other compartments flooded slowly and initially she listed 12° (corrected by transferring oil and portable equipment). The main battery remained intact, but the secondary battery on the damaged side was damaged by the column of water created by the torpedo explosion. Forced lubrication failed 4½ hours later, temporarily immobilising the ship. The main lesson was that secondary flooding much increased the effect of the torpedo. A similar hit to Malaya (20 March 1941) just abaft the forward bulkhead of the forward boiler room destroyed 35 ft of bulge and flooded 100ft of bulge but caused less of a list (7°) and was repaired more quickly (thirteen weeks rather than six months, both in the United States).```

[spiral cedar]

Something something centerline machinery death bulkheads

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/02/21/pilot-error-after-sierra-hotel-break-resulted-in-south-china-sea-f-35c-crash-investigation-says

[subtle prawn]

HMS Barham was hit by a spread of three or four torpedoes in the Mediterranean during a sweep by the battle force, 25 November 1941. The torpedoes hit between the funnel and the after turrets, causing the ship to list rapidly. Four minutes after the hits, with the ship on her beam ends, there was a heavy explosion, probably between ‘X’ and ‘Y’ magazines. The Board of Inquiry concluded that the torpedoes had blown in the side of the ship, causing such rapid flooding that she quickly listed to 40°, paused slightly and then rolled all the way over. The Board could not be certain of the cause of the explosion, but suggested that it was due to a fire started in the port 4in magazine, which spread to the adjacent 15in magazine. By the time the ship exploded she had already capsized. The officer of the watch on nearby HMS Valiant stated that all observers agreed that there had been three torpedo explosions, one and then two in quick succession, all amidships between funnel and mainmast. The general opinion at the time was that the big explosion was the 6in magazine rather than ‘A’ or ‘B’, as the centre of the explosion was abaft the bridge; the officer thought it was forward of ‘X’ and ‘Y’ magazines. ADO/PCO of Barham felt three torpedo explosions and then a fourth abreast the mainmast.

[vestal delta]

Mucho texto

[spring briar]

Y u asking him? I made that vid

Literally using the worst sources

[frigid karma]

You weren't online then

undie was

[alpine onyx]

If you are referencing the seakeeping thing that shitpost is talking about, the Bismarck's were described to have good to excellent seakeeping. Not sure where or how the creator came to that conclusion

[tight violet]

what guns would best represent the brits during the troubles

[spring briar]

Sirene i used the most garbage source

[tight violet]

if ira has their ar-18s

[alpine onyx]

But I have to ask that for most of the things that meme is trying to tell, since the majority of the points are either false or cases of "so what"

[spring briar]

Namely axishistoryforum

[alpine onyx]

It crosses like 80% of my Bismarck bingo

[spring briar]

That was the point

[frigid karma]

[spring briar]

If I wanted an accurate vid I’d have come to you

[frigid karma]

i typically throw it against wehraboos because le flashy colors and meme music

[alpine onyx]

I have to thank you for the headache it caused?

[frigid karma]

are more convincing to them than actual writeups

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

I made that shit in 1939

[frigid karma]

Know your audience

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[spring briar]

Please don’t watch it sirene

[alpine onyx]

I had a stroke over it

[spring briar]

Ok but now you know it wasnt serious

[alpine onyx]

God knows what the creator thought

[spring briar]

Me?

[alpine onyx]

But people in pop history love to think that it's all true

You, you probably thought of Lorraine

[spring briar]

Ofc

But I will repeat

Most stuff in that vid come straight from one post on axishistoryforum

[spiral cedar]

Quora version

[alpine onyx]

Doesn't surprise me

Though that fella probably had quite some night when they wrote that post

[spring briar]

Besides I no longer get enjoyment from bashing ships in history

These days I spend my time procuring rare pictures of lesser known ships

Like Rostislav with her office block

Also sirene pls forgive me

[alpine onyx]

[desert agate]

Primarily the L1A1 SLR until the SA80 shows up in the late 80s early 90s

[eternal veldt]

If they do not have time for articles, they are not worth the brain particles

[frigid karma]

counterpoint

watching them cope is funny

[eternal veldt]

Whatever floats your boat.

[ivory ridge]

@chilly osprey https://twitter.com/RID_Difesa/status/1628305479683264515?t=DQN5SCe1EJrNZ6Wf91p4Lg&s=19

RID (@RID_Difesa)

https://t.co/sOew8G3tSa
Sta prendendo progressivamente forma il design dei futuri cacciatorpediniere DDX destinati ad affiancare in seno alla Marina Militare i classe DORIA/ORIZZONTE attualmente in servizio.

Twitter · Feb 22, 2023, 8:07 AM

13.5k tons with 96vls?

Lol

[shrewd pecan]

a actual proper European destroyer?!

I LOVE ITALY!

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/eamonhamilton/status/1627789417330122753?t=9_E0HErmFgydqz1LF8pWWw&s=19

Eamon Hamilton (@eamonhamilton)

Post-war Britain gave us angled-deck aircraft carriers with optical landing systems, but also whatever the fresh hell this is.

Likes

162

▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 20, 2023, 9:56 PM

[desert agate]

96 is overkill but I hope it works out

Personally I'd drop to 72 and use the displacement for a better radar tho

[ivory ridge]

That would require a better domestic radar to exist

Because i doubt they are buying from somewhere else

And frankly I'm clueless about radars so i have no clue on how good the Leonardo stuff actually is compared to others

[manic latch]

Why not just buy SPY-6

[desert agate]

American export controls

Buy CEAFAR

Germans are already looking at widespread CEAFAR adoption

They've even got a testing radar set up

[ivory ridge]

Domestic industry >>

[desert agate]

CEAFAR is the world's best radar not because of its capabilities (which are exceptional) but because it's name is a double pun

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

you are nerfing the ship tho but fine

[ivory ridge]

@maiden citrus
https://warthunder.com/en/news/8110-development-uss-nevada-bb-36-cutting-the-edge-en

[manic latch]

Holy shit

[desert agate]

Tbh I'd buy American or CEAFAR if you want a modern DDG radar everyone else just isn't worth it and developing your own domestic radar design capabilities probably isnt necessary unless you're looking at fleet wide adoption

And export potential

[ivory ridge]

Which is why Italy has their own

[desert agate]

I don't see Italy with its own active phased array systems

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

Oh nvm

SELEX has a phased array radar

Italy slay ig

[ivory ridge]

Yeah selex is under Leonardo

[eternal veldt]

b-based?

this shall come in handy soon ™️

[alpine onyx]

Nevada my beloved

[desert agate]

okay so

TIL that the RN cancelled their CATOBAR carrier program in 1966 because the RAF convinced the government that it could cover the fleet globally using friendly airfields

and in order to demonstrate this

they moved Australia 300NM in their calculations

which was the only way in which they could make their point somewhat viable

genuinely the greatest UK moment to have ever happened

[ivory ridge]

[autumn sorrel]

Budget slashing?

[desert agate]

well it was basically budget slashing

RAF wanted the money that the carriers were getting

so they got the program cancelled

[autumn sorrel]

And RN didn't point that out?

I would imagine that RN would vehemently defend the program and pointing out that friendly nation can turn hostile real fast

[desert agate]

of course they did

it led to the resignation of a lot of the Royal Navy's senior brass in protest

still didnt fix things

even first sea lord resigned

[chilly osprey]

Oh, yeah, no, Italy is pretty set on the radar front

Ex, on these DDGs, the multi-function radar is Kronos Dual Band, which is a combination of Kronos Quad (C-band, AESA, subarray-level beamforming) and Starfire (C-band AESA, not sure what beamforming is like on that) with the Kronos Power Shield as the dedicated long range volume search radar (L-band, AESA, element level beamforming).

[autumn sorrel]

I just skimping over the 1966 thing, apparently RAF also lost bc they can't have new aircraft, the whole thing basically a sign of how much UK influence was lost during the time with general withdrawal from East Suez. That and the gov at the time was Labour.

[desert agate]

yeah i didnt realise the Italians had an equivalent for AN/SPY-6 or anything similar

[manic latch]

Common Italy W

[tribal mortar]

Carabiniere and Grecale after WW2

[ivory ridge]

Even more interesting is the second post war for Carabiniere, where she became a test ship and received one of the first models of the oto 76mm

[manic latch]

Cute vehicle

[shut wren]

Kitkat Rookat something

I forgot the name

[manic latch]

[ivory ridge]

It's centauro

[chilly osprey]

They also took a Gleaves-class destroyer as a testbed, the ex-Aviere, aka, ex-Nicholson

[ivory ridge]

The rooikat is the south African one

[chilly osprey]

Best 5" gun ever mounted on a US destroyer, even now

[ivory ridge]

[shut wren]

arent those the british heavy tonk

[ivory ridge]

That's centurion

[shut wren]

oh

Rooikat Centauro same thing

[shut wren]

b o a t

[ivory ridge]

So is this the same as well

[ivory ridge]

Based

[chilly osprey]

127/54 Compatto on the bow, 76/62 Compatto aft super-firing over a 5"/38 single

[ivory ridge]

Never seen this

[shut wren]

If we stole it from the british

then yes

[ivory ridge]

[shut wren]

Or we modified it or some shit

[chilly osprey]

Oh, it gets worse. In 1972 they removed the 127/54C to test a new ASW mortar. And then also put an Albatros launcher amidships for testing.

[shut wren]

I douno

[chilly osprey]

10/10 most bastardized American destroyer ever

[ivory ridge]

[shut wren]

What was the original MURM before the lend lease

[ivory ridge]

Uss Milwaukee

[shut wren]

They didnt gotta yeet her after the war

[manic latch]

It's Omaha class

Destined to scrapped

How many light cruisers US has now as museum anyway

[manic latch]

I actually don't remember...

[eternal veldt]

CLG-4 - Little Rock only.

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

Most of the Clevelands aren''t worth the upkeep compared to the Baltimores in a missile age, and any 6" gun cruisers left were either sold or mothballed to death

Honolulu got it especially bad, since she only has a grand total of 2 pictures in her new 5"/38 twin configuration before sold for scrap for good

[shut wren]

[chilly osprey]

Even in the gun age the math didn't work out

The Clevelands had similar manpower requirements to a Baltimore, so they were about as expensive to man, but had inferior firepower and less reserve topweight for upgrades.

Hence why they reactivated the Baltimore's over the Clevelands for the Korean War

On the other hand, it's actually worth noting that technically more Clevelands became CGs than Baltimores in the Cold War.

For the Baltimore's, you have Boston and Canberra from 1952 to 1955/56 as testbeds for Terrier, but then in 1957 you get six Clevelands's converted into CGs - two with Talos, four with Terrier (completed 1959/60). This is followed up by three Baltimore's converted from 1959 to 1962/64 into Talos ships.

Beyond that it was all dedicated ships - Long Beach being the only 'true' cruiser, laid down in 1957 and completed in 1961 with Talos and Terrier - and then after that, all the 'Guided Missile Frigate' classes with Terrier that eventually get re-rated as cruises in 1975.

[shut wren]

Stupid Ideas:IS2 turret on a patrol boat or Gunboat

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXws_Y2OuI8

[frigid karma]

Nationalist pride: +10 morale, -10 intelligence

I’d take it

[manic latch]

[shut wren]

who tf plays naval in WT

Its a good money maker but still

[frigid karma]

Don't you hate it when

pepega what

Kremlin why are you posting CNN here

[shut wren]

check the funny shit I've sent you qwerty

[frigid karma]

no

piss off

[shut wren]

[manic latch]

My bad

Never again

[shut wren]

back to gulag I go

[manic latch]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a42941315/next-generation-air-refueling-system/

[manic latch]

I thought US killed this program

Or did they put on hold

[tough quail]

to win de supah war de us needs uber space science

that intro line is so deranged it might as well say

"Winning could be just what's needed to win a future war in the air"

[manic latch]

100 Morbillion $ project

[remote monolith]

if victory is sure to result in victory then you must fight

Sun Tzu said that

[frigid karma]

And I’d say he knows a LITTLE more about fighting than you do, pal

[remote monolith]

because he invented it

[humble mulch]

Sun Tzu quotes are very amusing to me

[frigid karma]

Remember that his audience isn’t very

Bright

[humble mulch]

That’s why it’s funny

[frigid karma]

It’s the art of war not AP War

[desert agate]

is that what i think it is?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/ministry-of-defence-pay-14bn-ajax-programme/

[maiden citrus]

Wow that looks amazing and like something wows should do

[tough quail]

true

[maiden citrus]

and even in their text they're still beating around the bush

ah yes it set the standard for all subsequent american battlesh- no? literally every bb of all nations after they figured out how this ship was built used this scheme

except a couple oddballs

being the first american warship to adop-

no

first ship period

[thorn trail]

Is this the all or nothing scheme?

[maiden citrus]

yup

it's like, why are you wording it like that

[ivory ridge]

Ok Maka saw the Nevada now delete the pics of the ex us dd used as test ship before she sees that too

[maiden citrus]

all it serves is to make it seem less impressive than it was

[thorn trail]

What makes all or nothing good anyway?

[frigid karma]

More efficient with weight

[spiral cedar]

Here

[maiden citrus]

focused combat effectiveness by prioritizing certain areas and designing around others not being important to protect (don't put anything critical here, put it in the max armor areas), efficient armor weight and manufacturing (less thickness amounts), a bunch of different things

[thorn trail]

Thanks!

[maiden citrus]

but yeah this reads incredibly downplay-y weird

like 'yamato had the biggest guns put on a japanese ship in ww2' style writing

[spiral cedar]

The Type 93 had the longest range of any Japanese torpedo during WWII

[thorn trail]

Type 93 is the Long Lance right?

[spiral cedar]

Yes

[alpine onyx]

The Deutschland class had the longest range of any German cruiser

[spiral cedar]

HMS Agincourt had the most main battery turrets of any British battleship

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWNKFNNDQHw

[frigid karma]

Dug up a neat poster from 1943

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaxz-gCQ0b0

[shrewd pecan]

With the war in Ukraine showing both old and new vulnerabilities to the tank combined with multiple armies for various reasons additionally dropping their armored capabilities, while I think we all know the obvious answer to this question, honestly it’s a pretty worthwhile discussion of the evolving nature of the tank and how it copes with modern and old threats

(I’m not going to touch on politics here it’s just inherent you need to bring up armored warfare in Ukraine for this discussion) In terms of old and new vulnerabilities the war in Ukraine has shown the continued vulnerability the tank has to artillery and standard infantry anti tank weapons even with tanks that are suppose to have active protection systems (T-90M being knocked out and destroyed by a M2 Carl Gustaf)

And hundreds of Russian and Ukrainian tanks alike being destroyed by both gun and rocket artillery with artillery proving crucial in stopping armored offensives

Then you have the “new” toys on the block with drones, top down attack missiles, smart anti tank artillery rounds, and loitering munitions similarly proving their effectiveness in knocking out tanks in the hundreds

Now both sides are either improvising or adding in modifications to deal with these threats with additions such as heavier side ERA, Cope cages so on and so on

Overall making the experience in Ukraine more similar to the last time the necessity of the tank was questioned heavily the Arab-Israeli wars where both sides took atrocious losses from ATGMs and new infantry anti tank weapons

[tough quail]

i mean the question is a nonstarter

this is just how protracted conflicts work

you... lose things

fucking shocker that

in ww2 you couldnt sneeze without finding a dead tank, or a downed fighter

or dozens of destroyed carriers and god knows how many destroyers

we uh

didnt stop making those

[shrewd pecan]

I mean its a given you will take attrition regardless but you had both sides in Ukraine taking heavy tank losses early on

compare it to other conflicts like the Gulf war were you had Iraqi armored forces taking massive losses while coalition forces took barely any

now there's always the argument of comparative troop quality, coalition superiority in technology, fire power, and well everything else

[tough quail]

yeah which is a very

very

very obviously different situation

[shrewd pecan]

yeah that's why I was comparing it to the Yom Kippur war initially

since that was a conflict were both sides took heavy tank losses due to new anti tank weapons and changes in tactics

[tough quail]

the concept itself is flawed, though, because replacing tanks with infantry instead doesn't really help even if anti-tank weapons exist

because instead of needing a several hundred thousand dollar missile

you can just take 9mm to the face

[shrewd pecan]

I mean I was more curious in discussing what's lessons are likely gonna be taken out of the war in Ukraine

[tough quail]

fair shout

[shrewd pecan]

since in the Yom Kippur war despite the heavy losses tanks proved to be decisive for Israel

and you had both the East and West innovating things like the modern IFV, modern protection schemes, ERA and improvements in armored training

similarly in the war in Ukraine you have tanks proving decisive in multiple engagements and battles despite taking heavy losses

and you have Russia and Ukraine both responding to battlefield experiences with modifications to existing designs, field improvised armor packages and curious things like camo nets stopping loitering munitions

I mean just look at the T-80BVM 2022 where you have the dropping of the side ERA bags for proper ERA on the sides

or the use of anti drone nets in protecting equipment

similarly we have the M60 ERAs due to the Yom Kippur war

or the invention of the BMP-2 and Bradley due to the need to counter ATGM teams

[strong plank]

I assume companies and militaries are looking at how to counter top-attack munitions

[shrewd pecan]

its going to be interesting what routes people go about dealing with it

[strong plank]

whether that’s with a rcws like Rheinmetall’s KF-51 or some other form of APS

[shrewd pecan]

while APS is a obvious one the issue is dealing with the attack angles of missiles like Javelin

additionally relaying on just APS likely isn't the best idea so I imagine reinforcing roof armor is likely gonna have to be done as well

[strong plank]

It would be interesting to look at the types of scenarios where Javelin isn’t hitting and killing

since obviously there’s gonna be a failure rate

[shrewd pecan]

there's some notable examples

I've seen footage of a BMP-1 eating a javelin and multiple other ATGMs and keep running despite being heavily damaged

additionally there's examples of post javelin hits not fully destroying T-72s and other tanks

I can see designs like the STRV-2000 where the crew is fully separated from the ammo and the gun being potential solutions

[tough quail]

thickening roof armor isnt really possible

not to a point that would stop a javelin

[strong plank]

Then there’s also NLAW

[tough quail]

you'd basically need KV-2 nightmares

overflies are a lot stinkier

[strong plank]

So far stuff like the kf-51 and Abramsx seem to be taking the “just increase the arcs of the existing aps” approach

or using an rcws

and yeah while it’s likely neither of those tanks will go into full production, they do kinda serve as an indicator as to how the industry is thinking about these issues

[shrewd pecan]

I'm not sure about the RCWS solution

since that's going to need a lot of automation combined with potentially the addition of a radar

to where you have a entire CIWS on your roof essentially

[strong plank]

Fair

it’d probably be more useful against drones than the munitions themselves

[shrewd pecan]

personally its going to have to be APS systems combined with automatic smoke dischargers and some form of method detecting ATGMs in flight

since laser warning receivers aren't going to work against things like Javelin

tho regarding the drone and SHORAD issue

personally I think something akin to French style tank platoon organization might offer a solution

Pairing something like a Abrams platoon with something akin to a investigation group equipped with either AMPVs or JTLVs

with one or two of the JTLVs either having a protector RWS able to equip Stingers or the straight up 30 MM RWSs with stingers certain defense companies have been showing off

might be a potential solution

[manic latch]

I think ERA bags will be just replaced with box ERAS as it should have been

Since those bags are very easy to get ripped

[shut wren]

Just make robo tanks

no crew

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but that has a multitude of its own issues

[manic latch]

What got me wondering on T72B3 2022 is those new manlet ERAS as number 2

[shut wren]

Just add a extra Cope cage

simple

[manic latch]

Isn't it's very hard to hit that spot?

Kinda easy on War thunder but Irl it should be very hard

[shut wren]

WT doesn't prove anything

but yea

[shrewd pecan]

I'm assuming its likely from battlefield experience

[strong plank]

Just cast a single giant ERA brick and put it on the roof

[shrewd pecan]

nothing really tells you where your tank is likely getting hit at than watching get hit in the middle of battle

[maiden citrus]

'cannot be penetrated'

-photos of the tank being penetrated in that exact spot-

we knew it was bad, but not how bad

[shut wren]

thats my point

oh yea

some of the IS tanks have holes in their damage model lol

[shrewd pecan]

we also aren't discussing war thunder

nor the IS tanks

[shut wren]

I was just saying how WT isnt accurate

[manic latch]

Who would have thought

Anyway Now I finally get to see how Chals 2 will really perform

[shut wren]

they shipped some?

[manic latch]

They have this annoying reputation of resisting morbillion RPGs in Iraq

Will see how they will handle deadlier atgms

[strong plank]

Imagine telling a time traveler that in the 2020s, T-62s would be fighting Bradleys

[shut wren]

from the past or Future?

[maiden citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/simulations-just-like-the-simulations-harrisonfog-battlefront2remaster-discord-gif-16952806

[shrewd pecan]

considering that was some of their historic targets

they'd probably think the US was invading another third world dictatorship

[manic latch]

What's even maximum armor of Bradley

[shrewd pecan]

depends on the armor package

[manic latch]

Best one

[shrewd pecan]

if it has the BUSK package decent for a IFV

[cinder escarp]

not enough to resist any KE weapon, or many CE weapons

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but what IFV besides the ones converted from tanks or Puma are going to be doing that?

[manic latch]

I assume m113 losses were mostly from Artillery

[cinder escarp]

the problem with BUSK is that the coverage is truly appaling

[strong plank]

I mean it’s kinda in the name isn’t it

Bradley Urban Survival Kit

[shut wren]

Somebody explain to me what are KE and CE weapons

[shrewd pecan]

I mean the Bradley additionally is going to be more resistant to artillery splinters compared to the M113 or the BMPs running around right now

[shrewd pecan]

APFSDS and HEAT

[cinder escarp]

But it only covers like a third of the side? Including the upper and lower skirts which are the main places that will be hit (from balconies or basements) in urban combat?

[shrewd pecan]

APFSDS is a kinetic penetrator and HEAT is a chemical penetrator

[shut wren]

[cinder escarp]

BUSK isn't terrible given the bradley's design, but it's still not good.

Also, BMP-3 is a lot more artillery resistant than the Bradley is - has much thicker aluminum all around.

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but there aren't many BMP-3s left running around

[manic latch]

Isn't there like...

[strong plank]

I was about to say

[manic latch]

60 Bradley

[shrewd pecan]

100+ pledged

likely more in the future

[manic latch]

Ah pledge

[shut wren]

What’s the maximum size an auto cannon can be

[shrewd pecan]

additionally the Bradley's are a step up from the BMP-2s, BMP-1s and other IFVs ukraine is currently fielding

[maiden citrus]

whatever your dreams desire

[tough quail]

i know the exact one you're talking about and you uh

[manic latch]

57mm?

[tough quail]

you know whats with ammo that isnt in WT right

[manic latch]

Or maybe you can push 75mm

[shrewd pecan]

do you count the HSTV-Ls 90 MM proposal as a autocannon?

[tough quail]

also im pretty sure that spot is just a case of hyper super tight angle fucking with the pen

[shut wren]

If it ain’t made it ain’t countin

[maiden citrus]

the joke being we knew wt was trash for things like that

[strong plank]

The Des Moines can be an autocannon if you think about it really hard

[maiden citrus]

just not how trash

[shrewd pecan]

since if I recall the 90 MM and its autoloader were actually made

it was just never mounted in the HSTV-L

[shut wren]

Ok so hear me out

[maiden citrus]

then again, I forgot about bomber models

[shut wren]

Stupid ideas:152mm auto cannon Bradley

[maiden citrus]

bomber models are so atrocious it's hard to beat that

[shrewd pecan]

the biggest the Bradley has received is a 105 MM

[strong plank]

How to exhaust ammo supply 101

Wait what

can I get a pic

I need to see this

[maiden citrus]

ah yes I too remember how b17s snapped in half to 30cal

thanks wt very the accurate

[cinder escarp]

The biggest autocannon is in 155mm

[shut wren]

I though all Bradley had 105

[strong plank]

[tough quail]

i mean russia put a functioning 125mm on a bmd and put it into active service

you could probably like

[cinder escarp]

The crazy mofos at Bofors have the record for both the largest autocannon ever built, and the second largest.

[tough quail]

bodge on a fucking 6" gun from the mbt-70 onto a bradley

[shrewd pecan]

you could make a low recoil 120 MM work probably

[shut wren]

The PE-8 taking 340 20mm rounds and bring fine

[tough quail]

if you give enough of a shit to try

[strong plank]

You vs the mpf she told you not to worry about

[manic latch]

Sprut as 125mm?

[tough quail]

i dunno the mpf has the plug of looking nice

that bradley hurts me

[strong plank]

Fair

[tough quail]

yes

[cinder escarp]

The 155mm artillery piece on the Bkan is a recoil-driven autocannon feeding from an En Bloc clip Garand style.

[shut wren]

Alright new stupid idea

[strong plank]

The turret looks like it’s from an early-war German tank

Or maybe that’s just the camera angle

[tough quail]

the turret itself isnt terrible but the hull slopes do not work with that style of turret

[maiden citrus]

me bolting the 8'' gun from uss hull onto a mustang convertible

[tough quail]

which is a shame because they usually look great

[cinder escarp]

Bkan could fire 15 shells in 45 seconds

[shut wren]

We build a big ass grand of 400mm plus caliber

[cinder escarp]

At maximum range, the entire clip would be fired before the first shell landed

[strong plank]

Here me out maka

Take a Des Moines Gun

put it into a comically upscaled M3 Lee in the hull gun position

[manic latch]

I like Mjolnir with twin 120mm

[shrewd pecan]

anyway here's why we need to make a fully automatic M110 for reasons

[cinder escarp]

The second biggest autocannon is the Bofors 120mm L/46, used on both land and sea mounts

[strong plank]

Coob

[shut wren]

It looks like wallle hiding inside

[maiden citrus]

and then place a worcestershire gun on the top, uniting the guns in holy matrimony

[shut wren]

Alright guys hear me out again

[cinder escarp]

(Other 'automatic' naval guns are in fact not autocannons. They are conventional QF artillery, that simply has an electric or hydraulic autoloader attached.)

[shut wren]

We take a Nimitz class and we take most the shit out of it

We build another Gustavo

And put it inside

[strong plank]

Cringe

At that point just

Have the aircraft drop the shells onto the target

[maiden citrus]

wave motion gun surprise nimitz

[shut wren]

It’s called stupid ideas for a reason

[zealous vine]

What have I walked into

[shrewd pecan]

a lot of things

[strong plank]

You know how the midways had a dummy secondary battery yea

[manic latch]

Midway was going to have 203mm before they remove it for weight savings irrc

[strong plank]

take a ford and give it a shit ton of zumm guns

[maiden citrus]

lol

I can hear the iron maiden guitar rift

[shut wren]

Take a raptor and strap a 45mm for balloon hunting

[manic latch]

Ram the raptor to balloon

[maiden citrus]

nah you just add the naval laser for balloon hunting

[strong plank]

Raptor already has a 20mm

[maiden citrus]

stinky balloon skin will never stand up to laser focus

[tough quail]

im still reeling from the fact the raptor balloon hijinks actually happened in real life

[strong plank]

That’s some ace combat shit right there

[maiden citrus]

you heat the air inside the balloon with the laser

[shut wren]

Imagine you train your whole career to prepare for Russian Su-57 and then your only kill was a Chinese balloon

[maiden citrus]

and it explodes

ez

[shrewd pecan]

Su-57?

[manic latch]

F22 wasn't for Su 57 lad

[shrewd pecan]

No the F-22 was intended to take on hordes of Soviet fighters

[strong plank]

Raptor can have a balloon kill every now and then as a treat

[shrewd pecan]

why would they prepare it to take on a "fifth gen" with the RCS of a 4.5 gen

[shut wren]

No idea

[manic latch]

??

[shut wren]

Never read it’s purpose

[manic latch]

Plan you ok

[strong plank]

During Vietnam the Air Force realized that statistically, the plane that saw the enemy first typically won

[shut wren]

No

[strong plank]

Since it could get missiles off first

So the raptor played into that

[manic latch]

Tbh real preparation was Mig 1.44. Tho it doesn't look stealthy by looks so not sure what was the full plan for her approach. Things collapse before fruition

[shrewd pecan]

I don't think

the MIG 1.44 would of had the best RCS values considering the RCS values of the much modern Su-57 aren't all that good

[maiden citrus]

didn't it get revealed it has the stealth of like...

non stealth us fighters

[shrewd pecan]

tho of course the USAF was likely planning for advancements in Soviet Stealth technologies

[manic latch]

Ye as I said. Really not sure what was the point of Mig 1.44 if it was created as answer to F 22

[shut wren]

We steal it instead of making it ourselves

[shrewd pecan]

only real competitor out there is the Chinese since at least the J-20 can manage good RCS values at a front aspect

[strong plank]

The perks that come with uh

https://tenor.com/view/poi-yuudachi-theft-gif-22854108

[manic latch]

400,000 documents and help from B-2 engineer does help

[tough quail]

oh god not genuine stealth jet discourse

[shrewd pecan]

the theft of technologies while it plays a factor

personally I think it underplays chinese domestic capabilities

[shut wren]

we got smart people

we just dont use em

[shrewd pecan]

you very much do

technology theft alone doesn't get you capable aircraft

[strong plank]

It does help

[manic latch]

I miss her

[shut wren]

steal good planes designs

and improve

[shrewd pecan]

🤨 if theft was enough China would already have a operational B-2 equivalent

and so far they have

[manic latch]

Isn't H-20 can be revealed soon

[shut wren]

Hey Im working hard on steal em rn

[shrewd pecan]

one good stealth interceptor

[strong plank]

I wouldn’t be surprised if stuff like analyzing the (remaining) bits of nighthawk helped with developing their own RAM

[shrewd pecan]

and one rather mid looking fifth gen fighter in the works

[shut wren]

First attempt

eh

we did

decentlygood

[shrewd pecan]

its almost like the J-20 beat the J-35 in the JXX competition for a good reason

[shut wren]

wait we calling it J-35 instead of J-31

[manic latch]

%100 this guy helped alot on RAM https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noshir_Gowadia

As a design engineer, Gowadia was reportedly one of the principal designers of the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber, who conceived and conceptually designed the B-2 bomber's entire propulsion system and billed himself as the "father of the technology that protects the B-2 stealth bomber from heat-seeking missiles

[shut wren]

thank homie

brb tech issues

[manic latch]

Gowadia was also charged with helping to design stealth technology for Chinese missiles, and with money laundering.

[shrewd pecan]

the other issue is uhhh

you can't really reliably maintain your technological development on IP theft alone

since eventually your victim is going to grow wiser

[manic latch]

Ye

[shrewd pecan]

and start punishing you for it like China is being punished for rn

[shut wren]

Yea but we could use it to start off ye know

[tough quail]

yeah same buddy

[manic latch]

Ain't point is more about catching up however

[shrewd pecan]

yes

tho the issue is catching up going forward

[strong plank]

It is funny though

[shrewd pecan]

I fully believe China has advanced capabilities and is a valid threat etc etc

[strong plank]

watching the Chinese bomber renders start to look more familiar after the B-21 reveal

[shrewd pecan]

tho they're rn on the back foot when it comes to multiple key technologies

[shut wren]

Alright homies lets keep working hard

||stealing||

[tough quail]

its probably worth noting that a lot of these technological gaps are

very overstated in their actual practical difference

[shut wren]

[manic latch]

Tho they do have unique stabilizers that can fold. If they keep it

[shrewd pecan]

the chip gap and other similar gaps are pretty major

[maiden citrus]

I don't know if I'd say that, some are wider than people realize

[tough quail]

the lack of serious air to air combat has turned the jet discourse into

[maiden citrus]

the chip gap is huge

[tough quail]

unholy rivet counting

[strong plank]

or rivet-spotting in the SU-57’s case

[cinder escarp]

The chip gap is not that huge, but I will not say more as we are quite firmly into non-history discussion

[shut wren]

Someone correct me if Im worng

[strong plank]

wait nvm those were wood screws

[shut wren]

but

[manic latch]

Canard frens

[shut wren]

I remembered China got the Mig-21 from NK since the Soviets refused to sell after the Sino soviet split

and we reverse engineered it into the J-7 and later J-8

Correct me if im wrong

[manic latch]

J8 is obese Mig 21 yes

[shut wren]

Big-21

[zealous vine]

How is the Agano's 6 incher comparable to Mogami's 6 incher?

[shrewd pecan]

o I love the J-7 with the pure amount of dumb things China has done with it

ancient jet fighter that has no right being modernized to the point China has modernized it to

[shut wren]

Copium + being very desperate

[shrewd pecan]

yeah want a MIG-21 with Chinese AMRAAM equivalents? we gotchu

[manic latch]

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_Main.php

Have fun

[tough quail]

putting the technical in "missile truck"

[manic latch]

[shut wren]

hear me out

[maiden citrus]

[shut wren]

Stupid Ideas:

B o a t

[maiden citrus]

nah

that sounds good

[shut wren]

we Take a Decently sized ship

We stuff VLS inside

wait

nevermind

ranout of stupid ideas

[tough quail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/549610777603211267/1066388722414796910/togif-2.gif

[manic latch]

Maka help me

[manic latch]

How do I make people like Su-57

[shrewd pecan]

its a shit fighter

there's no way around it

[maiden citrus]

I can't help you with that one friend

[tough quail]

you get people who aren't politically charged

or are politically charged in the crazy way

but thats less ideal

[shrewd pecan]

👁️ I've showed admiration for both the J-7 and J-16

[manic latch]

I think I fixed it

[shut wren]

Why J-16

[manic latch]

Wait I can't send wtf

[shrewd pecan]

being the best Su-27 variant tbh

[strong plank]

Man the recent news with Poland reminded me that the Grot exists

[shut wren]

[shrewd pecan]

use of composites, modern AESA radar with Chinese avionics

great fighter

[strong plank]

“Fuck you”
Bullpups your Gro-wait what the fuck

[manic latch]

Now Su-57 F-57 will be adored

[maiden citrus]

getting people to like something ussually entails hyping up a relatively unique or silly feature

something that makes it stick in the mind as entertaining or cool

[strong plank]

fr tho what was the logic behind

[shrewd pecan]

Su-35s similarly makes pretty good upgrades on the Su-27 tho no AESA

[strong plank]

“Hey we want a service rifle that can be set up conventionally or as a bullpup”

[shrewd pecan]

the export Su-30s are also pretty interesting especially the one with French avionics

[strong plank]

Not in a nagging way I’m just genuinely curious

[shrewd pecan]

Su-57? what's even the point of that thing

[manic latch]

It's hot. And has AESA

[tough quail]

why does it look like a moldy steak

[manic latch]

Fine I will get better graphics one

[shrewd pecan]

DCU on a Su-57

[strong plank]

La creatura

[shrewd pecan]

la creatura

[tough quail]

more scars for the scar god

[shrewd pecan]

MAY THE AR-18 AND ITS CHILDREN LIVE ON!