history

[shrewd pecan]

Same way as ASRAAMs getting integrated for the 35

Since it’s the primary missile of multiple export partners

also horse your applying that statement to everything from the sparrow to the AIM-120

When missiles very much end up getting the upgrade programs

Look at the sea sparrows and AIM-120D man

[manic latch]

Wish Soviets captured the Aim-9L not the B

[shrewd pecan]

“Its first use in a large-scale conflict was by the United Kingdom during the 1982 Falklands War. In this campaign the "Lima" reportedly achieved kills from 80% of launches, a dramatic improvement over the 10–15% levels of earlier versions, scoring 17 kills and 2 shared kills against Argentine aircraft.[23]”

[tough quail]

yeah thats my point

the "upgrade programs"

that stall out for ages and end up being very limited in scope

[shrewd pecan]

Do you just

[tough quail]

AIN-120D sitting in development hell for six years to enter limited production last year with

"it can loft now"

[shrewd pecan]

Not look at what these programs add

[manic latch]

Aim-260

[shrewd pecan]

AIM-120D increasing range by 50% while improving PTK and missile navigation

Or block 2 ESSM adding active radar homing

[tough quail]

or the funny meme where F-22s didn't get proper 9Xs until last year because they couldnt be fucked to update them for internal bays

i dunno about the sea sparrow upgrades personally so fair shout on that

the AIM-120D thing sounds much less impressive when you realize its scrambling to jank itself into parity with european/russian/even chinese equivalents too

that got there much earlier

[shrewd pecan]

they’ve all gotten pretty significant upgrades when it comes to the sea sparrows

[tough quail]

like i said, heavy US procurement lag

[shrewd pecan]

Regarding AMRAAM vs foreign missiles

eh only ones really out there are meteor and PL-15

If anything tbh the Chinese are ahead of the Russians

[manic latch]

R-77M?

[shrewd pecan]

R-77 vs AMRAAM is probably the more fair match up

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

Since meteor and PL-15 are more of the long range missiles

that also doesn’t really change the fact that most meteor operators still operate AMRAAM alongside them

AIM-260 is set to start showing up by the end of the year tho

[tough quail]

we'll see, going on past experiences it's unlikely to enter service before 2030

[shrewd pecan]

It’s set to overtake AIM-120 production by 2026

Considering it’s already downed about 30 test targets as of 2021

[tough quail]

but then the fun part comes in

de gubment

[shrewd pecan]

idk I think the main issue is watching all of the next gen aircraft take a decade to integrate it

[tough quail]

this is specifically why i said us missiles get hit by congress the hardest

they know how to make them and make them not suck

[manic latch]

Ngad Amraams integration if Aim-260 fails

[tough quail]

it's just dudes in congress see the unit price of a missile and their eyes bulge out of their heads like a looney toons skit

and then the chair force has their homes pillaged and their crops ravaged for their insolence

[desert agate]

F-35 LRASM integration

[manic latch]

I mean there is already a joke going around today's missed Aim-9X. Since it will mean US air force waste 800K$ to down the Ufo

[shrewd pecan]

F-22s being stuck with AIM-9Ms but dominating everything regardless

[desert agate]

it hurts

it hurts so much

[shrewd pecan]

Aussie Anti ship component entirely dependent on P-8s and super hornets

[desert agate]

also like

IRIS-T is superior to AIM-9X

but thats to be expected from a missile thats more than twice the size

[shrewd pecan]

I don’t think the Germans want IRST on their 35s because it’s a better missile they want it because it’s their missile

[manic latch]

https://www.airdatanews.com/austria-wants-to-replace-eurofighter-with-f-35-fighters-but-from-2030/

[shrewd pecan]

Is what I’m getting at there

[manic latch]

7 years

[desert agate]

RAAF is at its weakest point in anti-shipping capability since prior to WW2

so much fun

[tough quail]

its a much

much better missile

[shrewd pecan]

well yeah it’s twice the size

[tough quail]

it's their missile despite the fact aim-9s are available so readily you can dig them out of the ground exactly because its way better

[manic latch]

I'm really worried about Tempest and FCAS projects.

Given how expensive F22 was resulted on. Despite the experience and budget of US. I got a feel Tempest and FCAS will be a F22 ish plane that costs much as one

[tough quail]

(also it's Iris-t, IRST is a different thing)

[shrewd pecan]

I hate searching for the IRST

since half of the search results are either https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_search_and_track

[manic latch]

Is it normal Iris-t costs same as Aim-9X while being a better missile

[shrewd pecan]

Or there https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Standard_Time

[desert agate]

IRIS-T was developed because the US was slow to develop AIM-9X

and IRIS-T is twice the size of an AIM-9X

[manic latch]

And it's bigger

[desert agate]

considerably heavier

[tough quail]

when your missile can pretty much run circles around a 9x yeah thats worth it

[manic latch]

That's the problem tho

Why 9x costs so much

[shrewd pecan]

Domestic European price probably

[tough quail]

older things retrofitted a billion times tend to be more expensive than something purpose built assuming they're both being mass produced

efficiency thing

it's why the uber super fuck F-15s cost out the ass despite being, yknow, F-15s

[manic latch]

Oh yeah F-15EX cost is like 1.5 F-35

[shrewd pecan]

idk I’m just of the opinion your probably dead if a AIM-9X or a IRIS is being thrown at you as long as neither suffers a hardware failure

[desert agate]

F-15 costs so much because its literally using circuity from nearly half a century ago

its so incredibly difficult to find the microprocessors that the F-15 was designed for in this day and age

and when you can find them usually they come from E-waste recycling in South East Asia or China and barely work

[tough quail]

they're cool tho so worth

[desert agate]

the handful of companies still manufacturing them are pretty much always making knock offs and the very few legitimate foundries making actual microprocessors get buried since theyre more expensive and its incredibly difficult for DoD to try and sort through the mess

[manic latch]

Su-30 and F-15

[tough quail]

yeah, thats a much better explanation, thank you

[tough quail]

large lads

[desert agate]

in 2020 an F-16 pilot was killed when his ejector seat malfunctioned during routine flight and it's believed that a counterfeit processor was the cause

[tough quail]

i like how i made fun of F-16s being kind of forgotten a couple weeks ago but im starting to like them more and more

they're dorky little guys

.. i also typed this before reading spons thing

[manic latch]

Similar height too

[tough quail]

it suddenly occured to me flankers just kinda look like ducks from the front

[manic latch]

That's Su-34

[tough quail]

ye i just use it as a catch all for the style

but u rite

wide flanker

[desert agate]

the current problem that militaries world wide but particularly the US are finding is that it's like trying to build a SNES motherboard with hardware from 2022/3

[manic latch]

Duck skin in Ace Combat

[tough quail]

rofl

[shrewd pecan]

trying to integrate a 4090 onto a commodore

[desert agate]

2023 hardware is going to massively outperform stuff from decades ago but the architecture for these motherboards is very specific trying to retrofit modern chips onto ancient hardware is borderline impossible

[tough quail]

let me weld these nokias together so my radar works

[manic latch]

Gtx 1660 Super vs NGAD

Can't wait for AI to replace plane designers soon

[shrewd pecan]

it probably won’t

[manic latch]

Bet B-21 replacement will be AI design

Huh

Can't it calculate best stealth angles smh

[tough quail]

just ship of theseus the thing like m109s

[shrewd pecan]

AI shouldn’t be seen as replacing people it should be seen as a tool

[tough quail]

iirc M109A7s have literally replaced every single part from the original

just all of them

[ivory ridge]

that's what he said

[shrewd pecan]

you still need people to tell the AI what it’s doing and make sure you know it’s designing a functional plane

[manic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/robot-tech-skynet-ai-arnold-gif-13186419

[ivory ridge]

Sukhoi trying to not re-release the same plane for the 9th time challenge

(impossible)

[tough quail]

to be fair fullback is a really funny name

[manic latch]

No

[manic latch]

Honestly difference between 30 and 35 is kinda odd ye

[shrewd pecan]

Sukhoi pulling another Soviet prototype Su-27 variant out of storage to re release as a “entirely new plane”

[manic latch]

J-16

[shrewd pecan]

All composite sukhoi

China making better sukhois than the Russians

[ivory ridge]

TIL The Kuznetsov had 4 different names

[manic latch]

Su-27LL-PS

[tough quail]

the vmf goes fucking insane with name changes

[manic latch]

Should have stayed Brezhnev ngl

[ivory ridge]

The initial name of the ship was Riga;
it was launched as Leonid Brezhnev,
embarked on sea trials as Tbilisi,
and finally named Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Kuznetsov

fucking hell man

[manic latch]

Longest name on a warship

[ivory ridge]

good thing they didnt stick with the first name

[manic latch]

And Kiev class was retired ye

Now it's a park? Museum? In China

Does look comfy

[desert agate]

its a casino

actually

[manic latch]

When one of the largest Soviet ship becomes a Casino

[desert agate]

with hotel of course

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

I always forget that China just ended up with almost the entirety of the Soviet carrier fleet

[desert agate]

i like the truly insane copium of people trying to think that she can be reactivated

[manic latch]

They would have bought Ulyanovsk too if it was finished more before collapse

[tough quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/552788046161117184/1070469689202966538/20230201_142400.jpg

where can i buy one of these and an f-14 to go with it

[shrewd pecan]

I hate the obsession with Ulyanovsk

[desert agate]

the internal fittings have been so thoroughly gutted that trying to fireproof her again would be impossible

[manic latch]

Extremely huggable

[shrewd pecan]

she would of been scrapped by the point China bought Liaoning

[tough quail]

suspicious foxhound loves you

[manic latch]

It was going to be first non American super CV

[shrewd pecan]

China doesn’t even acquire her until 2002 and she doesn’t enter service until 2012

[desert agate]

I do like how the Indians took the abysmal Kiev class platform and actually made it into a workable carrier

[shrewd pecan]

And again Liaoning was acquired with the Ukrainians thinking she was going to be turned into a casino

[manic latch]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/02/us-navy-to-test-hypersonic-missile-off-uss-zumwalt-in-2025/

Say Tato is this optimistic

[shrewd pecan]

no

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

hypersonic missiles are nearly in service, zumwalt just needs her retrofits

[desert agate]

these hypersonic missiles have been in testing at Woomera for over a decade

saying theyre not far off really isnt an exaggeration

[delicate beacon]

Richieeeee

4,7 IG shells

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Range_Hypersonic_Weapon

Army’s going to be getting its first operational batteries of these by the end of the year anyways

[tough quail]

also you goober thats an su-33

not a fullback

[manic latch]

Horse

Su-33 is naval

Su-34 is duck

You asking the duck

[tough quail]

oh i thought you meant the one in the picture was a 34

whoops

yeah fullbacks are peak duck aesthetic

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

SCIFiRE is going to be interesting

air launched hypersonic cruise missiles

[manic latch]

I can understand. Varyag wasn't in a...good condition. Can't imagine how much it costed China to repair her

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1002399391488946186.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

i was being conservative when i said "9th time" uh

[shrewd pecan]

I’m mainly looking forward to the “super duper missile” mainly because I think it would be funny to see a F-15E carrying one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-183_ARRW

[manic latch]

Now count me all prototype and variants

[manic latch]

Carry it like MiG-31 style?

[shrewd pecan]

In terms of Ulyanovsk I just hate the obsession with her and China “acquiring her” since there’s no post collapse USSR scenario where she can be realistically finished

The Ukrainian shipyards we’re dependent from materials and components from across the USSR

and with the collapse they can’t really get that anymore

It’s similar to Russia where agreements with Ukraine made their military export business boom

To the point where Russia became the worlds stop supplier of military ships

[manic latch]

Ukraine was still making naval engines ye

[shrewd pecan]

then that all fell apart when they invaded Crimea

[manic latch]

Indeed. Which forced Russia to develop their own

Irrc First 2 Gorshkovs use Ukraine engines while this Third one passed to Domestic

[desert agate]

Russia setting themselves up as an excellent exporter of naval equipment and further advancing the development of their military after the rot of the 1990s only to throw it all away for some stupid territorial ambition and ruining every chance they had at reconciliation with Europe

fucking 2014 man

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

What you get when your stuck with Putin

[manic latch]

Joins Nato
Gets nato standards and even radar equipment
Sea Rams on Kirovs

F-35B on Kuznetsov

[ivory ridge]

[desert agate]

what is bro cooking

[shrewd pecan]

thinking about it due to the 10 year rule it would be okay to talk about putin’s ideological ties to Ilyin and a few others

[manic latch]

it was 20 year

[desert agate]

id advise against it

there also is no 20 year rule here

[shrewd pecan]

just note he exists https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin

[spring briar]

you know you can @ me right?

[delicate beacon]

That's impolite

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/numb-linkin-park-mill-house-simpsons-depression-gif-25894467

[manic latch]

Things I do for Soyuz sometimes

[delicate beacon]

Kremlin

I has two questions for you

One) Was there ever a Sun Yat-Sen gun layout Pr23/24? (I think I remember you saying only 2x3, not 3x2)

Two) This isn't a question. this is a robbery. Hand me your Pr23/24 gun data.

[frigid karma]

This is beyond copium

This is imperial krokodil

[manic latch]

Nah

[manic latch]

Yeah Sherlock

It is

[manic latch]

Let me search I guess

[manic latch]

3 x 4 - 356 mm
3 x 3 - 406 mm
2 x 3 - 457 mm

3x3 406mm was picked as best option

Irrc Americans thought similar when deciding on 6 457mm vs 9 406mm

Preferred more barrels of 406mm as better

[delicate beacon]

I can imagine

At 18" you're just way above what reasonable battleships can bear.

[manic latch]

Yamato ain't reasonable?

[frigid karma]

Yamato is big as fuck

[delicate beacon]

Yamato is an unorthodox solution.

[manic latch]

N3?

50k tons as well

[tough quail]

N3 has the tradeoff of having tiny baby engines

[spring briar]

me family

from over the canal

[white swallow]

Maybe im too late saying this but did you know that today its 84 years since Bismarcks launch day?

[spiral cedar]

Yes

More importantly though

It's Maury's launch day

[white swallow]

Well thats cool

[humble mulch]

20 rule is just a general rule of thumb for history communities in general

[frigid karma]

Indeed, any older and they aren’t arousing anymore

[humble mulch]

As long as y’all don’t devolve into shit throwing and have a respectable/presentable discourse on something you should be fine and as your mod I’ll do my best to make sure nothing bad happens. As for that Ivan dude, looks interesting but talking of how one’s contributions and beliefs shaped another’s can easily devolve into shit throwing, pointless arguments, and lead the topic to current events and much more recent political things which arent really accepted here.

I do trust a good majority of y’all but just takes 1 person to fuck it up or someone to read the conversation the wrong way without context

[humble mulch]

That’s a lie we all love dinosaurs

[frigid karma]

Then why doesn’t Sakura have a Dino bitch

[shrewd pecan]

he's a "figure" that's had a rather large impact on post Soviet collapse Russian politics

[humble mulch]

Yeah

Wouldn’t lean into Putin to much just cause current events + politics

[spring briar]

And Jeanne D’Arc’s

[humble mulch]

But if you want to go over general influence of post Soviet collapse that should be more then fine

[shrewd pecan]

if there's other crap you want to throw in for post collapse politics of Russia

[humble mulch]

Just like you know, don’t make it out as a fucking Hoi4 focus tree for current events

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Gumilev

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt#Russia

other two figures you can throw in as well

tho Schmitt and Ilyin are the two most notable one with the most global impact

[humble mulch]

Very interesting quick read for Gumilev, and I’ve seen some of Schmitts ideas before

But yeah general impact on global and post soviet collapse should be fine

[shrewd pecan]

Actual impacts would likely devolve into political scramblings

[humble mulch]

Like Tato trust you more then enough, more concerned for others lmao

Yeah

[shrewd pecan]

Did wish Gumilevs wiki had more to it

Since it misses a lot his impact

[humble mulch]

I know most of y’all are able to talk about works as they were and not find hills to die on with them or argue to much on their behalf

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1625459844512727042

George Allison (@geoallison)

The aspiration is for Type 26 Frigate hulls four and onwards to be built in this hall, as opposed to the current system of building in sections and joing up outside, as can be seen with this image of HMS Glasgow.

Twitter · Feb 14, 2023, 11:40 AM

[maiden citrus]

I mean remember that it depends on what country you're talking about too

also did not expect to wake up and read through really weird missile cope

[tough quail]

maka, famous missile understander

[maiden citrus]

I am very well acquainted with long cylinder based objects, having eaten murmillions of them

[tough quail]

yeah but you eat them before they can demonstrate their range, maneuver and tracking ability

biased party

[ivory ridge]

does someone have the dr strange video edit with the bismarck issues

i remember it was pinned somewhere

[maiden citrus]

I didn't save it

horse probably has it though

[ivory ridge]

[tough quail]

i wish

[frigid karma]

I should have it

I recall using one a month ago against a wehraboo

[ivory ridge]

oh nvm i found it

it was pinned in the lore server

[tough quail]

i had never even seen that

thats incredible

[frigid karma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILop3Kn3JO8&ab_channel=Stitch'sLoft

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XPvK7B0xGE

[maiden citrus]

uh

[frigid karma]

What kinds of equipment

[spiral cedar]

No clue

[frigid karma]

Hmm

If the canoes were powered by motors and they had Davy Crocketts maybe

But I think the ciws would obliterate them

Before they got in range

[spiral cedar]

Yamato > Iowa because lower belts don't exist and Yamato can turn more tightly

Classic Ben Lim momento

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/02/14/marine-corps-requirements-call-for-9-light-amphibious-ships-per-regiment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adllHQqLU-c

[cinder escarp]

Ah, glad to see the USMC's reaction to the whole "it has to be survivable because we don't have the ships to provide escort to them" issue with the USN is just... to brush aside the concern and say that because there's "great things" on the ships the USN simply will escort them presumably with escorts summoned by console commands.

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/AWMemorial/status/1625719060045365250?t=f_nakv8qwkH6y52ZYBIboQ&s=19

Aust War Memorial (@AWMemorial)

#OnThisDay in 1942 the fall of Singapore occurred, one of the worst military disasters to befall Australia. Some 1789 Australian soldiers had died in the fighting and 15,000 immediately became prisoners of war. 🔗 https://t.co/qCKhexVpN1 📷 RAF and RAAF who escaped from Singapore

Twitter · Feb 15, 2023, 4:50 AM

[weary timber]

Ye, we call it total defence day locally. All schools hold a special history and war education program today. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Defence_(Singapore)

[deep apex]

Were the Type A turrets on the first Fubukis ever replaced with newer types?

[dapper parcel]

Some were replaced with triple 25mm

[eternal veldt]

Only the Ayanamis + got the B type turret. Most wartime refits are limited to radar, additional offices and AA as mentioned.

Uranami is the only special child with Type II hull and Type A armament IIRC.

[chilly osprey]

Actually, on the topic on the of the 3rd Year Type 12.7cm/50 - does anyone know what part of O-47(N)-1 Tony DiGiulian's pulling the '14 projectiles per minute' hoist delivery rate from?

Because as far as I can tell, it only credits it with 10 rpm;

Versus;

The only other reference to rate of fire in O-47(N)-1 is this brief description;

[delicate beacon]

There's your problem. Navweaps

[chilly osprey]

A person once said "If you wish to debate someone, know their sources as well as you know your own"

idk who

But anywho

[alpine onyx]

Did you ask Shiki?

[chilly osprey]

I'm just curious what they're referencing, because I can't find it, and that gets in the way of me trying to figure out what exactly was up with a lot of these 'lower' rate of fire seperate ammunition gun systems with wildly varying rates of fire reported for them.

[rapid junco]

I was about to talk about that
Because i'm debating about something on the community post of Second World War channel

[chilly osprey]

Ah shite forgot Shiki isn't here

[rapid junco]

Indy posted this week about a time that norwegian PT boats attacked a pair of Norwegian merchants that were under German control

And like
A person in there said
"It's not a war crime when we do it"

And i said that it would be a war crime if it was a Hospital ship
But now i'm being confronted by this guy:

[chilly osprey]

I mean, the guy is an idiot, it was literally defined by the Hague Conventions (at the time) and the Geneva Convetion (now) that attacking a marked hospital ships is a war crime

[rapid junco]

Well, i'll give my my final answer to that using the Geneva Convention

But i guess the idea of giving Hospital ships a protection under the convention
It was because manpower is harder to replace

[chilly osprey]

Not exactly?

I mean, merchant ships ferrying troops were a totally valid target, as was anything carrying war material

[alpine onyx]

It's because killing incapacitated combatants was considered an awful thing to do

[chilly osprey]

^^^^

[alpine onyx]

And it still is an awful thing to do

[chilly osprey]

Many troops on hospital ships may not recover at all

[rapid junco]

But those troops are in a good state, isn't?

[chilly osprey]

They're forces with no more military capability, leaving a theater, and many will never serve again, especially not in a front-line capacity if they have to be evacuated

[chilly osprey]

Those troops are usually being transported to an active front with the intent that they will fight, so, yeah

[alpine onyx]

Hospital ships are by definition providing medical care to whoever is on board, to deliberately target a hospital ship is the naval equivalent of walking through a hostile medical tent and giving everyone laying inside a bullet

[chilly osprey]

It's moving around war material

This is also why the Hague Convention and Geneva Conventional were also rather strict about what defined a hospital ship, and a hospital ship could easily invalidate its protection if it was carrying war material

[alpine onyx]

Or if it carried armament, or wasn't properly painted

[chilly osprey]

But otherwise?

How fucked up are you that you want to argue in favor of killing personnel non longer fit for service being evacuated from a theater?

(obviously not you you, but more the 'general' you of whoever might want to argue against this)

[alpine onyx]

Just have to stop thinking about warfare involving humans, but rather it being solely a statistical thing

[rapid junco]

I think he's arguing more in favour of the lives of the merchant sailors rather than the WIA

The guy in there

Because he asked if i considered the lives of injured soldiers more valuable than of the sailors

[chilly osprey]

It's not a question of value, really

[rapid junco]

I said in my argument that is the "Logic of war"

Because we are dealing with things in wartime

[chilly osprey]

It's a question of 'these personnel are no longer contributing to the war effort'

versus

'these personnel are actively helping the enemy move around equipment, resources, and troops to better enable the enemy to kill our troops'

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHtcq3rC7OI

[kindred reef]

why were cluster munitions banned?

they seem pretty good

[spiral cedar]

They have a higher dud rate than conventional munitions, but are almost as deadly to some random farmer plowing their field

Now, not all countries have agreed to the cluster munitions ban

The US notably hasn't, citing military needs

Instead it has voluntarily declared it will reduce its cluster munition dud rates to very low levels

Progress has been made though much of the inventory remains above the self-imposed threshold

Cluster munitions do come with undeniable advantages; comparisons with non-cluster multi-warhead weapons shows fewer projectiles and greater cost

But the higher risk to civilians postwar puts them in a similar position to landmines, where military utility now comes at the cost of civilian lives and cleanup costs for years or decades down the line

Of course, signing a treaty doesn't necessarily mean you follow it in wartime, but of course no country today would ever be in the process of doing exactly that cough

[manic latch]

Countries

[frigid karma]

[desert agate]

That is true but this isn't the channel

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1625901028888698880
https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1625901030683865089

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1898, an explosion sank the USS Maine in Havana Harbor. The explosion was blamed on a mine, contributing to the outbreak of the Spanish-American War. Subsequent investigations indicate the explosion was likely caused by a coal bunker fire that ignited the Maine's magazines.

Twitter · Feb 15, 2023, 4:53 PM

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

One of the surivors of the explosion on the Maine was the ship's cat, Tom. Tom was known as "Senior Cat of the Navy" when he gained national fame after being found in the wreckage. Tom had singed fur and a wounded foot but quickly resumed his rat catching duties on another ship.

Likes

188

Twitter · Feb 15, 2023, 4:53 PM

[manic latch]

Man Mexico was big

Say I'm not familiar with this war, but why US didn't pushed all way to Mexico City into their borders?

Early surrender of Mexico?

[spiral cedar]

The war was highly disputed and unpopular in the American public as it was rightly seen as being conducted on shaky grounds for the extension of slavery

Plus the lands further south of the Rio Grande were not seen as good farmland (mostly mountainous deserts)

[manic latch]

[spiral cedar]

So not much value to the South

The coastal access and ports of California, plus the American settlers there, meant taking the areas along the way

But otherwise, no need to take stuff further south

[frigid karma]

They did march on Mexico City

Any expansion below rio grande was discouraged by northern anti slavery forces

[shrewd pecan]

it was a long term goal of Southern states to expand into Latin america to create new slave states

[manic latch]

So Mexico as today's borders exists as it is to balance slave vs anti slave states?

[shrewd pecan]

the other thing to note is that Mexico is barely properly internally integrated

it barely had any form of control over the Northern states that were annexed by the US

the Northern States were ridden with Mexican soldiers turned bandits after they weren't paid, had poor infrastructure

at one point Mexico implemented laws that required people to make a certain amount of money to achieve government positions

and literally no one in Northern Mexico had the income for it

[spiral cedar]

There was a balance before the war. The South disrupted the balance by planning to add all these guaranteed new slave states that would make them a majority in Congress and ensure slavery remained forever. That’s part of why “popular sovereignty” became the new basis, so that each state’s residents would decide when it was founded whether to be free or slave. But that also led to Bleeding Kansas when the factions fought and brought in fighters from nearby regions

[manic latch]

[spiral cedar]

Keep in mind stuff like Idaho and Montana were just territories are the time

Meanwhile Texas and California were almost ready to be states, and they have a lot of population

And they’re on the southern half of the Mason-Dixon Line

Of course, when Cali wanted to join as a free state instead of a slave state, the South got pissy about that

[frigid karma]

Well, no. That border was drawn along rio grande and then leftwards

But then there’s also stuff like the Gadsden purchase

[manic latch]

[spiral cedar]

Gadsden purchase was buying a small strip of land on the souther border with Mexico after the war because people realized it was necessary for a railroad to connect California to the rest of the country

[deep apex]

The north of my state (New Mexico) is higher up, allowing for a better-ish degree of settlement due to somewhat more low temperatures. The south is more so a basin where the temperature Severely restricts farming and habitation. The state is also lacking in water for miles in some places.

Santa Fe was captured without resistance, both during entering the city and on the journey to it. Its fall effectively put the entirety of the Southwest into U.S. hands.

The war itself was unpopular with the American public as you mentioned. Mexico also had implemented a law stating any slave who set foot upon the country's soil was a free man. This would've caused much discontent and unrest should the South have them be slave states.

[spiral cedar]

The tiny strip of land was bought for 10 million dollars, in comparison to all the land in the war being "bought" for 15 million

[deep apex]

In the end, although Jim Crow laws were not signed into effect in either state, de facto segregation still existed.

My grandfather says it was a more lenient enforcement of it. A single black person would usually just be given a few looks but not much else. Two would arouse suspicion and three and above was when things got tense.

It is still kind of funny to me that Arizona and New Mexico, both states with roughly the same amount of land as Italy, only house a small fraction of the U.S. population.

[frigid karma]

And also because pro slavery guys wanted the railroad in the south rather than north

[spiral cedar]

Right

[frigid karma]

Dreaming up an alternate history scenario where Spain retains control of Mexico and SA following the peninsular wars somehow and the 1898 Spanish American war sparks a massive two continent wide war

[thorn trail]

Like the Golden Circle proposal by some staunch pro-slavery people?

[shrewd pecan]

yup

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSDtGXW7J7I

[digital mantle]

I went to a Pizzeria and found these ships I do not recognize. Can anyone tell me who they are?

[subtle prawn]

The first is Arizona

[maiden citrus]

beat me to it

arizona in new york

[subtle prawn]

Also, why not try asking the owners what ships they are?

[digital mantle]

I asked someone…

Maybe I showed have asked the elderly gentleman about it…

[frigid karma]

Training could help overcome some of these difficulties but target practice was virtually unknown on either side of the Civil War. In the few weeks between its formation and going into battle, for example, the 24th Michigan had one recorded instance of target practice, during which three men were wounded and one died of a heart attack.
Battle Tactics of the Civil War, Paddy Griffith, 2001

[manic latch]

Here is identification guide

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1002399391488946186.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[shrewd pecan]

I need to make a folder for these

[frigid karma]

@ivory ridge weibo leak of potential sardegna UR for may

worth a look

[ivory ridge]

truly

[frigid karma]

no speedloader?

[deep apex]

RMS Queen Elizabeth on the right

She can be distinguished from RMS Queen Mary by the absence of a third funnel.

Her two funnels are also spaced farther apart.

She also doesn't have a well deck.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1626017875134918656

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

In 1968, supply officers on USS Kitty Hawk were puzzled when they received an $8565.36 oil bill. They determined that the issuing company had confused the 85,000-ton carrier with an 80-foot schooner also named Kitty Hawk that shared the homeport of San Diego. #WarshipWednesday

Likes

109

Twitter · Feb 16, 2023, 12:37 AM

[eternal veldt]

Where did you get this?

[ivory ridge]

im pretty sure his caption was meant as a joke

[frigid karma]

4chan

[eternal veldt]

I meant the Italian text looks authentic enough.

I'm tired of PR speculation at this point tbh

[ivory ridge]

yes the thing is real

i meant the whole

"leak" thing

[eternal veldt]

Yea, I'm asking where the thing is from

Because I dont recall it

[ivory ridge]

it's just yet another "here how ships will look in the future thing"

im trying to find that as well

i forgor

cuz i remember the design itself but not where it come froms

[eternal veldt]

Forgot if its from the hybrid ship book or another one of Guidoni's insanities

[ivory ridge]

there isnt an article on it of Stefsap's blog so idk

[eternal veldt]

Well, okay then.

[cinder escarp]

When will we get a Gibbs & Cox battlecarrier as a PR?

[frigid karma]

kearsarge

and

[ivory ridge]

given how PR ships are chosen, one of the new ones is more likely

so not a G&C design

[eternal veldt]

The new hybrids are full on fakium, quite incredible

[frigid karma]

old ships are still allowed

new ships are just more likely

[eternal veldt]

Bar-Louisiana, which was inspired by a fucking...Br*tish design.

0 hope, 0 expectations

[frigid karma]

i mean

[ivory ridge]

Only a DR

[frigid karma]

i came from WoT, so, lol

[eternal veldt]

Most of the shit being pulled out lately are crap

So, whatever.

[frigid karma]

ok and a stretched norcal with a kaga tied onto to the back works as a DR

[ivory ridge]

Ok but also they have the new ones

literally there

and they can use the old ship slot on something else

im not saying kearsarge shouldnt be UR, im just saying that the new one existing makes her way less likely

[eternal veldt]

So long they stay away from Superships, it's a "eh" for me

[ivory ridge]

especially because it's the US turn this year

[eternal veldt]

Because otherwise, 0 historical ratings incoming from me

[cinder escarp]

I'm old enough to remember when there were (almost) no fabrications in WoT.

13 years ago, man

[eternal veldt]

GW E.100

[ivory ridge]

ok i cant find anything

[eternal veldt]

Almost, but still

[cinder escarp]

When I first started, there wasn't even a Maus

[ivory ridge]

time to ping the bird

[frigid karma]

yes there was

the first three tier 10s were iS7, maus, and t30

[cinder escarp]

No, because I was in closed testing and was actually in one of the very first games after the maus was put in closed testing.

[frigid karma]

ah, closed testing

[cinder escarp]

It was funny, we were all clueless trying to mob it like ants

[frigid karma]

Maus is still a gud tank these days

surprisingly

[eternal veldt]

Could be worse, WoWS CBT

[ivory ridge]

@chilly osprey
any clue on the origin of this? im sure i saw it before in the past but i cant find anything other than the Secretprojects thread with just this pic

[frigid karma]

WoWs CBT had the old artillery aim kek

[eternal veldt]

US BBs being borderline unplayable

[frigid karma]

Iowa cit was like

10 meters tall right

[cinder escarp]

Like, WoT in the very early days was remarkably historical in their vehicles and maps. Was even a selling point for a while. That uh, went away.

[eternal veldt]

Guess who is still using that as a selling point

Just lol, lmao even

[frigid karma]

behold

[cinder escarp]

I don't know of a single soviet/russian tank design capable of -7

They all purposefully traded off depression to achieve a shorter and smaller turret.

Most of their vehicles are -3 degrees tops

[chilly osprey]

I'm not familiar with it, no. I think I've gone looking before without result.

Most likely, it's probably just another rough concept sketched out for a Rivista Marittima article or something along those lines, i.e. "A future ship could look like this"

[ivory ridge]

yeah thought so too

[chilly osprey]

Rather than a real design study or concept

[cinder escarp]

(The reason for that design compromise is that the Soviets felt that the times you can take advantage of having a few extra degrees of depression are overall rare in a campaign, while a smaller and shorter turret has benefits 100% of the time)

[ivory ridge]

but muh 🅱️ideogame performance

im pretty sure someone made a video about this very recently

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK6suAebD-M

ok yeah

[cinder escarp]

That said, the US and UK envisioned their tanks as primarily fighting defensive from pre-dug lines in Germany... and under that presumption it makes sense to have a turret with good depression. It also ends up with vehicles like Chieftain and Merkava that are all turret armor, zero hull armor.

[frigid karma]

dah, but wot can

[shut wren]

Wot is that arcade type of game

I got the T-34 tops

[remote monolith]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-023-04513-x

AROOOOOOOOOOOO dinosaur complex vocalizations is on the table again

[frigid karma]

it's marvelous how much scientists can learn from conveniently shaped rocks

[remote monolith]

also because the larynx seems bird-like there's an entire possibility that Tyrannosaurs sounds like overgrown geese

which is absolutely terrifying

[frigid karma]

hjonk

[ivory ridge]

I'm confused

Why is an australian journal talking about spanish ships while using an italian patrol boat as thumbnail

And why is it paywalled

Oh wait lmao

5am brain, the "us" in the article title is not the country

Still why are they using an italian patrol boat if the subject is spain

[frigid karma]

killer fleet

[deep apex]

https://youtu.be/LZ7UjjjcuJs

[desert agate]

basically Navantia offered the RAN 3 more Hobarts and a new class of Corvette

[frigid karma]

most effective german propaganda

[deep apex]

It is RMS Queen Elizabeth.

[desert agate]

sorry i meant to reply to someone

[desert agate]

almost certainly RMS Queen Elizabeth

[desert agate]

paywalled because its Murdoch press

[desert agate]

I can only assume the thumbnail has something to do with The Australian just looking for a European corvette and ignoring the details

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/spanish-pitch-to-supply-australia-with-three-warships-by-end-of-2030-20220710-p5b0f0.html

theyve been discussing the new DDGs for a while now but the new corvettes are something new

realistically it's a pretty good idea since the Spanish have proven to be capable export partners and the Hobars have been very reliable ships

and RAN is in a position where is desperately needs more hulls

and it fits well into the timeline of "desperately try to revive Australian shipbuilding and then try to keep it alive" side of current RAN acquisition

[upper trail]

Oh what other hell hole did I walk into now

[solid mango]

Ye

Welcome

Enjoy your stay

[frigid karma]

oh great thanks for directing him here pin

i'm sure he'll decide to be highly contributive here

[shrewd pecan]

6 Hobart RAN?

epic

[thorny scarab]

Mod team is already informed.
Going to bed.

[spiral cedar]

I see a detention

Will make no further comment

[frigid karma]

can i offer you a (women in a suit) in these trying times?

[spiral cedar]

Shore

[shrewd pecan]

ah

I see why he was directed here now

[frigid karma]

it's in al-art

[shrewd pecan]

its in the places I no longer venture into

I'm sure he's going to make some highly valuable commentary here

[spiral cedar]

Not for the next six hours

[shrewd pecan]

cool, he won't be able to see the F-16 ADF

I still wonder why the rest of the US F-16 fleet never got the sparrow integrations

and why it took them this long to actually integrate BVR on the F-16

"The first F-16A ADF conversion was completed in February 1989, while a contract was placed for kits to update and modify a total of 270 F-16A/B's at the Ogden Air Logistics Center in Utah. The Block 15 airframes used for the ADF program were all meant to be upgraded to block 15OCU standard, and both programs ran in conjunction. Aircraft entering the Ogden ALC for ADF upgrade also received the Block 15OCU avionics installation. The net result is that all ADF aircraft are Block 15OCU airframes. The last ADF left Ogden in 1992."

tho I suppose they got AMRAAM integration as well through this upgrade program

[spiral cedar]

[frigid karma]

lemme guess

your new name had something to do with germany?

[eternal veldt]

Bismarck's weather deck is mostly 50mm, don't worry

[maiden citrus]

what do you mean 80mm isn't enough, 75mm was decent thickness for one layer of deck armor

[shrewd pecan]

ah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_C._Upham
"In February 1862, he acquired a sample of Confederate money and quickly started producing his own counterfeits. His first printing consisted of 3,000 five-dollar notes, each stamped at the bottom with the words, "Fac-simile Confederate Note - Sold wholesale and retail by S.C. Upham 403 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia." He sold his first batch for a penny per copy. Cotton smugglers in the south quickly began buying Upham's novelty notes, trimming off the notice at the bottom and flooding the Confederate economy with the bogus bills."

[maiden citrus]

we do a little trolling

[shrewd pecan]

the 3 AM cannot sleep boredom so you dig into random shit

"The Imperial Japanese Army used a private sector company to produce an abundance of counterfeit banknotes that helped to advance Japan’s front lines in China during the Second Sino-Japanese War, a recent discovery shows."

shame I can't find more about this beyond a mention in a wikipedia article and one book review

[maiden citrus]

that's interesting

[shrewd pecan]

all I know is that they apparently did make counterfeit yuan, tho there's sadly not much out there on it beyond two articles

that sadly do not link their sources

anyway the most detailed one I can find on the matter http://asiamoney.weebly.com/fakes-1---old-forgeries.html

[scarlet ledge]

we actually have quite a few spanish ships

[alpine onyx]

mostly 50mm, except for the spots where it goes to 80mm

[spiral cedar]

That is, in fact, what "mostly" means

[eternal veldt]

And random 23mm platings smh

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/500747383165157378/1075520976713945198/IMG_1073.jpg

[maiden citrus]

[alpine onyx]

It's about that meme of having two 80mm decks in some spots

[spiral cedar]

Clearly the problem is that the superstructure is actually worth a Yamato main deck thickness of armor plate

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642452370462343179/927129855454220308/IMG_3436.png

Fun fact: if you just make shit up you can ‘prove’ anything!

[maiden citrus]

superstructure spaced armor, a marvelous idea

[alpine onyx]

Not even sure where that guy gets his 20mm in between decks from

Should be like 7 or 8mm, to prevent a sailor from falling through

Double checking, 6mm for both

[delicate beacon]

Also outboard deck?

[spring briar]

270mm turret roofs

Oui oui

C’est bon

[autumn sorrel]

What am I reading here? Another bismarck copium?

[delicate beacon]

That's exactly what it is.

Also nice username Jaba

Richie oui oui

I had an idea

What if I make basically a CA

But with super long possibly DP 6" guns.

[ivory ridge]

then it wouldnt be a CA now would it

[delicate beacon]

I just mean very heavy CL

[delicate beacon]

Where can I find the Japan ONI reports

[delicate beacon]

DZP in St. Petersburg, 1956 https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/films-media/detail/3a86509a-26ab-f397-1a65-b28185f05723/media/7ad389ae-9e9b-8c88-ae48-a2126d198264

And now for something sad

[delicate beacon]

@spring briar

[spring briar]

Where AP

[delicate beacon]

Army stuff so none

[delicate beacon]

I should plan some trips to archives

[spiral cedar]

https://twitter.com/usnhistory/status/1626260355348566016

U.S. Naval History (@USNHistory)

Naval History and Heritage Command confirmed the identity of a wreck site off the coast of Hokkaido, Japan, as USS Albacore (SS 218).

Likes

119

▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 16, 2023, 4:40 PM

[remote monolith]

so that submarine spotted sunk in 1944 by Japanese soldiers really was her

[frigid karma]

@shrewd pecan

Ye olde tank advertisement / postcard

[shrewd pecan]

ft-17

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZRJvvPshk4

[deep apex]

May her and Taihou be together in peace

[tough quail]

🐦 🤝 🐟

frands

[manic latch]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/02/austal-usa-delivers-first-autonomous-capable-epf-ship-to-us-navy/

[spiral cedar]

Defending their territory in Yugoslavia, myes

[rapid junco]

[frigid karma]

Whermocks

That’s a new name, gotta use that more

@tough quail https://youtu.be/dpCSr9jkOic

[tough quail]

yo thats rad

now i can finally fight in an undisclosed eastern european conflict

[sullen canyon]

I think you mean [redacted] location horse

[tough quail]

your mother

[frigid karma]

@humble mulch ey is this allowed?

i feel like it's borderline here

[humble mulch]

Yeah I’m gonna have to ask you to remove it

That looks pretty fucked in general

[frigid karma]

aight

[ivory ridge]

aw i missed it

[delicate beacon]

[tough quail]

lets just say richelieu would not appreciate the contents

[manic latch]

Same

Cuban Torpedo craft

No clue about speed

But it's brave

And cute

[tough quail]

thats fucking rad

fuck that dshk toyota shit

THIS IS A REAL TECHNICAL

[manic latch]

Yosh

[shut wren]

Cuban Moog Mig-17as

[shrewd pecan]

if I ever save up the money for airsofit kits

half of my shit is gonna end up being imported finnish and Norwegian gear

Savotta helmet covers just look like fire man

[shut wren]

It looks cooler ig

[frosty stream]

I just learned today that the ussr tried to join nato

[shrewd pecan]

it was intended to test the alliances true purpose

not out of a actual attempt to join

https://youtu.be/FxhLkwmSu98

[shut wren]

I mean

what if they accepted

[shrewd pecan]

I mean that just ends up of the timeline of

Eastern Europe being scared alongside China being scared

[tough quail]

i'd live a happier life

[shrewd pecan]

beyond that

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1002399391488946186.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[shrewd pecan]

nothing changes

🤨 you aren't undoing the self inflicted collapse of the Soviet Empire

[tough quail]

there's basically no way of predicting that given if it magically happened the political landscape of the planet would be completely unrecognizable

[frigid karma]

I mean

even if they had joined nato, it's likely the original nato members would've just left it alone and formed nato 2 which serves the purposes of the original nato

[shrewd pecan]

its hard to say anything about NATO 2

[frigid karma]

what you would have to do is either make western europe and america a lot more communist or make stalin a lot more capitalist

[shrewd pecan]

but in terms of the Soviet Union itself its predictable that the combination of the Soviet Economy stagnating after meeting its maximum economic potential

combined with the boiling over of the ethnic conflicts that Russia has been engineering for generations

[tough quail]

1954

38 years is uh

a lot

when it comes to economics

[shrewd pecan]

it would require

the USSR to fundmentally redo their entire economy

and not to fuck themselves over in the 70s

[tough quail]

literally just opening normal trade to europe would be an absurdly dramatic change

[shrewd pecan]

depends on how its done

[tough quail]

yes

[shrewd pecan]

since that would of just devolved into Western Europe out competing the internal Soviet market

its hard to make Command economies work without absurd amounts of protectionism

[tough quail]

no matter how you look at it you're essentially putting the last 70 years of history into a blender

[shrewd pecan]

it's a mixture of the Soviet Economy having to open up and privatize combined with the Soviet government not wasting all of their oil money and bankrupting the Eastern Bloc through high oil prices

oddly the Gulf Oil economies and the Soviet Union suffered from similar economic issues when you think about it

https://youtu.be/oPa4tiK4rWE
https://youtu.be/LrZ1eMlzwhc

[frosty stream]

Ok

[frigid karma]

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/aircraft-propulsion/hobby-clubs-missing-balloon-feared-shot-down-usaf

oops

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/salute-gif-8977961

[shrewd pecan]

oops

[frigid karma]

In fact, the pico balloons weigh less than 6 lb. and therefore are exempt from most FAA airspace restrictions, Meadows and Medlin said. Three countries—North Korea, Yemen and the UK­—restrict transmissions from balloons in their airspace, so the community has integrated geofencing software into the tracking devices. The balloons still overfly the countries, but do not transmit their positions over their airspace.

[ivory ridge]

i read albian as albanian and was confused

[shrewd pecan]

The ancient Albanian empire

[strong plank]

history question for y'all

besides 7.62 NATO and .280 brit were there other calibers considered by NATO?

during that initial trial I mean

[dusty kraken]

The first lifeform was Albanian

[shrewd pecan]

as they say god is a Albanian

[fierce sparrow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/515640057026314256/1075434540526473236/Screenshot_2023-02-15_101138.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/515640057026314256/1075434540874604564/Screenshot_2023-02-15_101221.png

[spiral cedar]

How does it work

[tough quail]

alright FN calm the fuck down

[desert agate]

I cannot see this having any benefits whatsover

my only question is

why

[maiden citrus]

two bullet impacts for the price of one

[desert agate]

but its only one bullet

theyve just rotated the cartridge to make it shorter

[maiden citrus]

does it not come out of the barrel like that? guess I got my hopes up

[frigid karma]

100% more bullet per bullet

[maiden citrus]

hey if I can hit a guy and give him a huge weird double bullet shaped hole instead of one I'd do it

even for just the novelty factor

[desert agate]

no the projectile is still the same as before

[maiden citrus]

why even live

[desert agate]

its just the casing in which the propellant is ignited has changed

[maiden citrus]

I was coping someone had made a real staple gun

[tough quail]

duplex rounds are a thing at least

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

if you want to fire two bullets at once

[tough quail]

that's just spicy burst fire

[maiden citrus]

but are the two bullets hooked together and goofy?

[shrewd pecan]

no but I found a even worse rifle to make your eyes bleed

[maiden citrus]

lol

it's so deformed

[shrewd pecan]

god I love experimental military procurement

shame none of the NGSW guns ended up looking this wacky

[maiden citrus]

thanks for trying to cheer me up with double bullet guns though hehe

[shrewd pecan]

something I do hope for

a civilian version of GD's gun

[tough quail]

but Maka

what if bullet inside other bullet

[shrewd pecan]

its pregnant

[tough quail]

for some reason they made one of these for their slow boy 12.7mm cartridge too but I can't find a cutaway

[frigid karma]

Just do that funky multibarrel mg42 from wolfenstein

[tough quail]

sir your gun isn't loaded

[frigid karma]

https://preview.redd.it/xxh1cpml18o31.jpg?auto=webp&s=ff7d402cc6a777d5219b3f5e02999b61dcea8454

Literally a quad bofors for infantry

[shrewd pecan]

"how do we make a MG42, but worse?"

[frigid karma]

It’s wolfenstein

Just go with it, man

[tough quail]

Wolfenstein requires suspension of disbelief that Germany produced anything good

[maiden citrus]

pregnant bullet

[shrewd pecan]

I mean wolfenstein is just

nazi's stealing Jewish super technology

🤨 which makes me wonder where the hell that shit was during the 30s but we'll ignore that for now

[frigid karma]

reminds me kind of raiders of the lost ark

[shrewd pecan]

https://wolfenstein.fandom.com/wiki/Da'at_Yichud

raiders of the lost ark was Jewish culture/history striking back at the nazis for thinking they could take it

Wolfenstein is just straight up Jews making super technologies then not weaponizing them against the biggest threat in Judaism ever

https://tenor.com/view/moshe-dayan-israel-israeli-soldier-gif-23446464

[frigid karma]

alright

you know, something that struck me weird is israel isn't exactly close to nazi germany

makes it kind of weird for them to always show up in those places

[shrewd pecan]

the nazis stole it then the Da'at Yichud never you know

did anything to strike back until mr BJ showed up

[frigid karma]

also, isn't the yichud thing older than judaism?

like sort of a proto abrahamic thing

[shrewd pecan]

its basically

ancient jews

that gradually became actual Jews

[frigid karma]

ic, ic

[shrewd pecan]

which additionally makes me wonder

🤨 the fuck were they doing during the fall of the Kingdom of Judah

or during the Roman take over of Israel

[frigid karma]

again, it's wolfenstein

suspension of disbelief

[frail oyster]

Ok im at the moon where is the nuclear code

[rapid junco]

@spring briar Mascarenhas de Moraes and a French officer at Vada

[analog sun]

Hi.

I’ve been thinking about the battle of the Denmark strait. And I wonder if the battle had been different if Norfolk and Suffolk had been involved. Would they have made any difference?

[delicate beacon]

As with all things naval they could have made a difference. But I reckon it be very unlikely.
Their opponents were a Battleship and an A(+) cruiser. Generally Heavy cruisers cannot do critical damage to a Battleship under normal circumstances. As such it's quite reckless to send them into the fray.

Ideally, you'd use cruisers like they were designed: cruise and to shadow larger formations then intercept the force with a heavier element from a tactically favourable position. Which is exactly what they tried to do IRL.

[alpine onyx]

On paper the battle was already skewed against the Germans, adding two heavy cruisers into the equation would not be that benefitial unless the British managed to significantly damage Bisko. Then, them being able to get torpedoes in would be helpful. Otherwise, they are a good insurance, if for whatever reason the Germans get away they continue to have two shadowing cruisers

[manic latch]

So let me get this

Australia had decent ammount of F-111s

Used them till 2010

But because of high operation cost, replaced them with 24 F-18F

And then they purchased F35s?

Which also should have high operation cost

Hmmm

[ivory ridge]

the f-111 had high operation cost but are also strike aircrafts

the f-35 arent just that

[chilly osprey]

The Super Hornets were an interim solution for between when the F-111 was withdrawn from service, and when a sufficient number of F-35's would enter service

Because, keep in mind - F-35 is primarily replacing the F/A-18A&B for the RAAF

[manic latch]

[chilly osprey]

Well, was

They've finished replacing them now, actually

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jZrnLrAd6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exVno170qhU

[strong plank]

Monthly reminder that the 1950s were a wild time

[ivory ridge]

truly

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/RheinmetallAG/status/1626538246241910784

Rheinmetall (@RheinmetallAG)

@LockheedMartin and @northropgrumman have signed a letter of intent with #Rheinmetall AG as a promising strategic source of supply for the F-35 center fuselage.

https://t.co/SFSEBg0Hjp #F35 #aircraft #aerospace

Twitter · Feb 17, 2023, 11:05 AM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1626628715223613441

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1944, U.S. forces began the assualt on Eniwetok atoll. All but about 140 of the 3,500 Japanese defenders fought to their deaths. Passed by wartime censors, this photo of fatigued Marines after the battle presented a rare image of the psychological effects of combat.

Twitter · Feb 17, 2023, 5:04 PM

[spring briar]

Are you sure?

Also important to differentiate between the bullets for the vssk and the ash

[tough quail]

second ones the duplex round, ye

[desert agate]

operational costs of the F-111 were entirely ridiculous
each airframe required an average of 180 hours of maintenance per hour in the air simply due to their age and their 1960s era variable geometry wing technology
Super Hornet and F-35 were also replacing different capabilities
Super Hornet was intended to replace the afore mentioned ageing F-111s primarily in the tactical bombing and naval strike roles (and secretly nuclear bombing)
F-35 was intended to replace the classic Hornets, which themselves replaced the Mirage IIIs which primarily filled the fighter/aerial superiority role in RAAF service

Super Hornet itself was acquired due to delays with the JSF program and the crippling need to retire the F-111s, however shortcomings with the F-35 and its integration with modern anti-shipping missiles have delayed the F-35 taking over the role the Super Hornet currently fulfils
At present there are plans for RAAF to purchase an additional squadron of F-35 blk-4s when that aircraft is ready and tentative plans to upgrade the older airframes which the RAAF already operates which will allow the F-35 to completely supersede the Super Hornet in RAAF service (excluding the E/A-18G Growlers)

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

toot

[desert agate]

RAAF Mirages are a vibe

these aircraft were the subject of some really whacky tensions between Australia and France over Israel and Vietnam of all places

and then they got sold to Pakistan where theyre still flying

the last fighter jets built in australia

for now

[shrewd pecan]

I mean I think the aussies have more than a chance at the drone market

tho for fighters I don't really think maintaining a domestic industry for that is going to be viable for Australia

[desert agate]

MQ-28 is a demonstration that Australia seeks to reenter the field of fixed wing aircraft development

at this stage thats unmanned but with the current progress of Australian acquisition programs I can see a desire for a manned aircraft coming about in the not too distant future

RAN is seeking a persistent shipbuilding capability, RAAF may capitalise on the opportunity which the MQ-28 has provided and seek to further the development of a persistent indigenous aircraft manufacturing capability

[shrewd pecan]

main issue is just maintaining the industry for fixed wing manned aircraft

[desert agate]

its either that or we, once again, build one good program and then leave the industry to die

[shrewd pecan]

I don't really see Australia either buying in the volumes for that to be sustainable or getting export customers to make it sustainable

[desert agate]

RAAFs requirements for a fixed wing drone aren't massive and there arent many export opportunities

fixed wing aircraft meanwhile can potentially have an export market

New Zealand, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore

all could benefit from a potential Australian fixed wing aircraft

[shrewd pecan]

I mean that assumes New Zealand is ever going to acquire new fighter aircraft

[desert agate]

its either that or all of the money that was put into MQ-28 goes to waste as we refuse to maintain the personnel we trained and the equipment we purchased go to countries that actually want them like the US or Korea

the Kiwis already pay us to provide them with air defence, RNZAF is an entirely subsidiary force to the RAAF

theyd pay for some Australian planes

[shrewd pecan]

Taiwan has its own domestic fighter aircraft so I don't really see them going with anything unless its a significant step up to the F-16 block 70s or the F-CK-1

beyond that Vietnam, Malaysia and Singapore are going to have plenty of competition from other suppliers such as the US, Russia, Europe and South Korea

[desert agate]

MQ-28 was an investment, it can be capitalised on or it can be squandered

europe

lol

[shrewd pecan]

eurofighter, JAS-39

[desert agate]

France and Sweden more like

Eurofighter is a joke and no one will be buying new airframes in 10+ years

its not like a new airframe is going to come about overnight

[shrewd pecan]

idk most I can really see coming from Australia is either FA-50 equivalent or some weird US-Australia partnership to make that fifth gen light fighter the US wanted to supplement the 35

[desert agate]

and Australia massively outmasses Sweden economically and also has the geography advantage of being close

id just like to not see the money we just invested go to waste

[shrewd pecan]

fair

I just still don't see a Australian domestic fighter being competitive

[desert agate]

it could be supplemented with rotary wing and further drone development

since lord knows we need helicopters

[shrewd pecan]

Aussie UH-60Ms that will now serve for the next 50 years because europe cannot make a competent helicopter apparently

[desert agate]

the helicopter itself is fine

there were teething issues

that were very bad

[shrewd pecan]

to the point where both the Norwegians and Aussies are getting rid of them

[desert agate]

but with those fixed the Taipan is one of the best transport helicopters in the world

its just

contract

and maintenance requirements

Australian maintenance requirements are entirely different to European requirements

the Europeans would mostly be replacing stuff like landing gear and rotors so they invested in producing a lot more of them

ADF meanwhile mostly needed replacement engine components, which the Europeans replaced a lot less so they didnt have as much production capacity for

[junior trench]

my man

Su-57 has a better production record than Gripen E

it's literally only France

and they're totally backed up on orders

[desert agate]

Since Taipan engines were constantly being fucked by the bushfires and operations out in the deserts and the like it was very stressful on the engine components

[junior trench]

and going France means you're stuck with Rafail for the foreseeable future

[desert agate]

and since the contract had nothing in it relating to Australia manufacturing its own engine components, parts had to be shipped back to Europe for refurbishment and replacement

which takes a lot of time

and has a few bottlenecks

[junior trench]

afaik the Euros were also anal about letting people stockpile parts

[desert agate]

such as one big bottleneck like a ship accidentally getting stuck in the Suez Canal

which didnt help matters

so ADF just gave up and went back to the Black Hawks

which themselves are not as good capability wise as the Taipans but at least we can fly them and maintain them

[junior trench]

*even within Europe

which is why European forces keep cutting back their active stocks

or just outright replacing them

and there's no canal in the way

so it's just the sellers being assholes

[desert agate]

the whole situation resulted in iirc 10 Taipans in deep maintenance for every 2 Taipans in flying condition, and whether those Taipans were in operational condition is also not a guarantee

[ivory ridge]

Isnt the su older than the gripen e?

Like

2010 vs 2019 old

[shrewd pecan]

its probably because the JAS-39E only has 2 customers

being Brazil and Sweden

[ivory ridge]

Also it's like

7 Gripen

Vs maybe 10 production 57?

[desert agate]

talk to any ADF helicopter pilot and they'll tell you the Taipan is an exceptional platform and they wouldnt want to fly anything else
at least
assuming they can fly it
which most of the time
they cant

it's kind of a Tiger moment now that I think about it

[spring briar]

@tough quail I have cutouts, but not for the duplex

[shrewd pecan]

I mean the NH-90 is the reason why I wish this thing actually got military customers outside of Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92

since the layout of these type of helicopters just make sense

[desert agate]

that door looks a little small

and that gear housing looks a bit big

would be difficult for rapid troop deployment

not a huge door for gunnery either

[desert agate]

i stand by it that doors way smaller than a black hawk or taipan

[shrewd pecan]

ideally you would just delete the gear housing and go with fixed gear instead

to allow for a bigger door

tho I don't know the inner design details of the S-92

I just know its bigger blackhawk

tho interesting things seem lined up for the NH-90

[junior trench]

the UH-60/SH-60 fire sale is going to be wild

[desert agate]

sure isnt lined up for the ADF

[junior trench]

gonna be a lot of them hitting the market

[desert agate]

but yeah nah i think at this point ADF really should be building its own helicopters

its clear no one else can do it right

the Americans give us a mediocre platform that flies the Europeans give us an excellent one that doesn't

[shrewd pecan]

anyways when are we getting the half life one MV-22 with side doors

[junior trench]

you'll get eternal Blackhawks and you'll like it broke boy

[desert agate]

[strong plank]

I imagine the navy's gonna try and snap some up for spare parts to keep their sea hawks running

[junior trench]

y tho

[desert agate]

Romeos are at no risk of a parts shortage

[junior trench]

there's also already navy and marine versions of the V-280

[strong plank]

ah

[junior trench]

with UH-1 sized foot prints

but UH-60 payloads

[strong plank]

for some reason I assumed the v-280 was an army-only program

[junior trench]

nah

it's joint

Army version dispenses with the folding mechanism because they can just disassemble them for transport

navy marine has the folding and pivoting thing

which makes it hilariously compact

[desert agate]

integrated sonobouys and torpedoes i presume

[junior trench]

V-22, V-280/V-247, UH-1Y

[strong plank]

the osprey's folding mechanism always looks comical to me

[strong plank]

like someone just pulled the wings off and set them on top

[frigid karma]

is that 2nd pic a render or real?

[shrewd pecan]

render

the V-280 gunship designs

[junior trench]

disregard V-280

acquire Samson

hate the movies

love the vehicle designs

[shrewd pecan]

personally I'm just hoping to god the V-280s able to mount pylons on its wings

tho I'm guessing that's likely not going to happen

[junior trench]

also

funny time to mention that like

things for nerds went this far for the gear in the movies

[strong plank]

unrealistic smh

no way something written up by the pentagon would look that clean

[frigid karma]

pentagon is allergic to visual aids

they are only familiar with visual AIDS

[strong plank]

pentagon powerpoints give off "graphic design is my passion" energy

[desert agate]

werent they mercs tho

ie not pentagon

[frigid karma]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-all-nice-gif-22927671

[spiral cedar]

https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2010/09/atl_wall_chart.jpg

More readable

[strong plank]

illustrations dreamt up by the utterly deranged

one of the other groups in my class are working on how to reform the ppbe process

those poor souls

[frigid karma]

meanwhile, most complicated afghan integrated defense acquisition, technology, and logistics life cycle management:

"here's an AK i found behind the backyard shitter, go shoot someone with it"

[junior trench]

Funny you mention that

Cus those articles about Taliban fighters suffering in 9-5 admin jobs recently came out

[sage sun]

https://www.stripes.com/history/2023-02-16/wwii-submarine-wreckage-japan-albacore-9163796.html

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5OOLK8_PE4

[spring briar]