history

[frigid karma]

the pt belt vid was pretty funny

[maiden citrus]

I only watched the ship ones because I know what I want to see

[spiral cedar]

I found the Texas one again and

Yeah no

[frigid karma]

i literally brought up TFE as a benchmark of noncredibility

[eternal veldt]

Peak noncredibility is Blacktails

Abrams will lose to Tiger II because no MG port

[maiden citrus]

[deep apex]

That is 5head shitposting

[maiden citrus]

blacktails is a master of cope

proceeding all current cope

[frigid karma]

blacktails?

[maiden citrus]

he was born coping

[spiral cedar]

https://youtu.be/Z767jz2bnI0

[eternal veldt]

Or "600 CAP fighters BF109 over an airfield will win against an F-16" Plasmatorch

[frigid karma]

I mean

[spiral cedar]

M1A2 SEP < T-55 Anime Music Video

[frigid karma]

does the F-16 have enough ammo for 600 fighters?

[spiral cedar]

[lime belfry]

Is lazerpig always correct with some of his takes tho

[frigid karma]

oh no

definitely not

[maiden citrus]

not all no

[lime belfry]

non credible defense makes him a god or something

[frigid karma]

emphasis on non and credible

[eternal veldt]

Your first mistake is taking NCD seriously

[maiden citrus]

because it's supposed to be funny

[lime belfry]

they arent serious

[eternal veldt]

Its warmongering haha funni

[lime belfry]

but lazerpig is serious

[eternal veldt]

Leave it at that

[frigid karma]

not really?

[maiden citrus]

a good amount is based on fact to get the foot in the door, then you go funny

[lime belfry]

well, even when he drunk

[frigid karma]

he's drunk half the time

have you heard his manic laugh

[lime belfry]

he trashed the A-10 too much

it the Tiger paradox all over again

when a war machine is praised to god tier level

[eternal veldt]

And somehow cope cage managed to get into mainstream use, which is indeed funny

[lime belfry]

some people will take it down to the bottom pit

[frigid karma]

careful there now silver

[lime belfry]

and then that narrative becomes the norm

[maiden citrus]

[frigid karma]

don't want to disappear now do you

[spiral cedar]

[eternal veldt]

Slat armour existed for the longest of times

Go away

[deep apex]

It is a shit plane though so I can't do too much there

[maiden citrus]

new and unprecedented cope

[frigid karma]

yes, but said terminology for that form of armor is relatively new

[lime belfry]

morale boost is nice

[deep apex]

Friendly fire aint

[lime belfry]

you can even argue AC-130 is a shit plane based purely on the fact if the enemy has AA guns and the air is contested

then AC-130 is this big fat plane asking to be domed

[frigid karma]

the ac-130 is a shit plane

along with the a-10

[lime belfry]

it did get legendary status bullying terrorists and COD killstreak tho

[frigid karma]

unless you're fighting insurgents without any form of aa better than an LMG

it dies in every other COD game lmao

everyone just cruise missiles it

[maiden citrus]

die in cod die irl

[eternal veldt]

Murderer's Row, Lite version

[frigid karma]

ahh that reminds me of when i went on a rant

about which US CVs canonically represent said batters

[maiden citrus]

sounds interesting at least

[frigid karma]

Combs is wasp
Koenig is yt
Hornet is Ruth

[frigid karma]

Tico is Meusel and Lex is lazzeri

In other words, Hornet can drink 5 trillion beers, down 8 trillion hot dogs, fuck half the women in NYC and still hit home runs on demand while weighing

[shrewd pecan]

it doesn't but it can just run from them

[eternal veldt]

All Casablancas apparently

[frigid karma]

checks wiki

[ivory ridge]

"They told me i could never teach a Llama to drive, they were wrong, the fools!"

[frigid karma]

27.1k tons

anyways, silver

what kind of tree would you be?

[eternal veldt]

Pepsi/SLC on very far right

[maiden citrus]

at that point just missile their air field from 200 miles out and do a wink face

[eternal veldt]

Don't be one

[shrewd pecan]

I mean at that point the ultimate way to counter spam against inferior fighters is destroy their logistics

[eternal veldt]

I wood rather die

[frigid karma]

murder the first few indiscriminately

the rest of the pilots will think they're fighting actual god

and start ditching

gotta play the morale game

[maiden citrus]

'we're going to sortie our cap against this solo blip at max range on radar-'

and there goes all the 109s before they can take off

[shrewd pecan]

if the formations tight enough I suppose you could kill multiple BF-109s with one AMRAAM

[eternal veldt]

Just

600 BF109s

[frigid karma]

you just saw this futuristic jet murder his way through a dozen planes with ease

[eternal veldt]

On CAP

Service time: very no

[frigid karma]

you're not gonna be thinking 'oh there's 600 of us, surely he wont have ammo'

you're gonna be ditching for your life

[maiden citrus]

most of us may die, and we won't kill the enemy, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make

[shrewd pecan]

additional questions here

what F-16 is it

does it have its drop tanks as well?

[eternal veldt]

Whatever is used in Iraq in 1991

[frigid karma]

just bomb their airfield and laugh

now none of them can land

[shrewd pecan]

so

at the newest block 40/42

[eternal veldt]

Because Mr. Plasmatorch also argued that tiger IIs will take out an abrams once it loses everything it has in its advantage

Y'know, fuel, ammo

[maiden citrus]

you see if the abrams crew are out on vacation and encounter a tiger 2 on their scuba dive

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LANTIRN

god

LANTIRN equipped F-16s

[frigid karma]

remember, these kinds of stupid are closer than you think

[shrewd pecan]

vs BF-109s

[frigid karma]

i posted this in gph once

As much as I don't like FDG, she was comparable against NJ. The problem she had was how much set up u needed to make her deal same/comparable dmg to NJ. Let me just listed what she needed . You need - 2 spread from veggy,-2 from table,-2 from kron in Opsi, Vanguard actual buffs, Plymouth, crit dmg buff from UvH crossfleet. There is a reason she doesnt get FS5 yet because she still is extremely strong just not plug and play like NJ.

and this was the response i got

[eternal veldt]

Just let me get the thread again

[frigid karma]

i mean

😐

[eternal veldt]

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/between-armys-america-circa-1991-vs-germany-circa-1944.32992/

[shrewd pecan]

🤨

[frigid karma]

an infamous read

[maiden citrus]

I wonder if the army that beat the 1944 germans easily if transported 50 years into the future could beat them again

[eternal veldt]

"Okay, we need you to fly your F-16..."
"...against Nazi Germany."
"You're doing Combat Air Patrol."
"They're actively contesting the airspace..."
"...using huge numbers of propeller planes..."
"...deploying in formations of over one hundred aircraft each."

[frigid karma]

First off, russian tanks suffered from low-nickel content in their armor all the way to 1943. Second, the spalling problem on the tiger II seems to have been limited to the turret, and the manufacturers compensated by installing anti-spall liners (before they got popular with COD players :))

[shrewd pecan]

ah cool

[frigid karma]

what, the, fuck?

[shrewd pecan]

bomb their airfields

[frigid karma]

i'm sorry, where does COD come in

[maiden citrus]

guys do you think the spanish could win the spanish american war if the spanish were transported from 1900 to 1945

and fought the 1945 us navy

[eternal veldt]

Transport Richelieu back to Trafalgar

Nelson in shambles

[maiden citrus]

literally what this question is

[shrewd pecan]

Wehraboo dumbassery

[frigid karma]

i fail to see how an old cardinal who likes cats could do anything to stop nelson's battle line

[spiral cedar]

1939 Kriegsmarine vs. 2022 Bundesmarine

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

the Kriegsmarine could get their ships to sea reliably

when compared to the Bundesmarine

[spiral cedar]

Well, some of it

[frigid karma]

what scenario

[shrewd pecan]

you think a single Sachsen could duel the entire Kriegsmarine long enough for the rest of the Bundesmarine to get active?

[frigid karma]

are both of them locked in a 100km by 100km deathmatch cage in the ocean

[maiden citrus]

uss iowa bb4 destroying multiple spanish warships

uss iowa bb61 'you are like little baby, watch this'

[frigid karma]

they're the same person

[eternal veldt]

Send the Tigers against the PUMAs

Who dies first?

[frigid karma]

neitehr

[frigid karma]

both break down before reaching the battle

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/19/germany-pauses-buying-puma-tanks-after-mass-breakdown

[shrewd pecan]

I still wonder

how people look at the pure size of the US military in 1991

and make that wehraboo argument over it

[eternal veldt]

Thanks for killing the joke

[shrewd pecan]

np

[frigid karma]

[eternal veldt]

Not you, qwerty

[shrewd pecan]

🫡

[eternal veldt]

That whole thread is a meme anyway

[dapper parcel]

I dunno what's worse, whether if someone is truly believing the premise, or if someone completely unaware being trolled

[eternal veldt]

Jaime I: drowning noises

[eternal veldt]

When people as deluded as combat reformers exist..

[maiden citrus]

hilariously you could probably defeat nazi germany with just the b52 fleet

9,000 mile range with no refueling, 510mph cruise speed, 50,000 feet

wtf you gonna do

[frigid karma]

something something me262

just embellish some numbers and we're gucci

[eternal veldt]

Can't believe Dresden was completely razed

[shrewd pecan]

I mean its the 1991 B-52 fleet as well pre drawn down

[spiral cedar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/515583624083406848/719216146213109780/image0.png

[cinder escarp]

You have mentioned the forbidden one

[eternal veldt]

That reminds me

[spiral cedar]

60% fullerene

[eternal veldt]

How many days was Sara Maru under repair

[spiral cedar]

Ground pressure: 8 pounds per pounds per square inch

[shrewd pecan]

ok perhaps the single frigate will do

[cinder escarp]

I'm a fan of the 2200bhp 3-rotor diesel wankel.

[eternal veldt]

Not forbidden enough

[dapper parcel]

Imagine wankel apex seal, now with diesel compression

[shrewd pecan]

crew:6

[cinder escarp]

Based on an actual engine!

The Curtiss-Wright, then John Deere, SCORE.

It never went into production for a reason

[dapper parcel]

No way it survive for long

[cinder escarp]

Yeah, you would have that right

[tough quail]

i want to die

[ivory ridge]

Man i found a peculiar creature on reddit

They make fun of the regia marina by posting links to swordfishes and warspite

But also posts them on the subreddit

They think nato is a warmongering entity

But this is their pfp

And they are heavy NCD posters

[maiden citrus]

they can't decide what L to take

[ivory ridge]

I dont remember if i can use the S word in this server but man

It would describe this guy perfectly

[maiden citrus]

it's ok to call him stupid

[ivory ridge]

The other s word

[cinder escarp]

spanish /s

[maiden citrus]

spaghetti

[ivory ridge]

This is under a pic of Trieste

No wait

Cavour

[maiden citrus]

at least the downvotes are nice

[tough quail]

ive never been pissed off in so many directions simultaneously

[maiden citrus]

I knew it was going to be a ride when he said it was from reddit

[eternal veldt]

Just your average shitposter

carry on

[frigid karma]

sicilian?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WTelEdb6jk&ab_channel=CraftyBear

[dusty kraken]

Dont tell me

It's singaporean

[frigid karma]

a singaporean would be too busy on r/sino than ncd

the level of intelligence is about the same, but the location can't be right

[eternal veldt]

sufficient-brain-damage

[frigid karma]

sexually-arousing?

[ivory ridge]

[frigid karma]

i mean

eating spaghetti with the spoon, if that isn't hot

i don't know what is

[desert agate]

insiders do not take either seriously i can tell you that much

[frigid karma]

mm, you'd be surprised

[desert agate]

if you are an insider you do not watch LP for anything other than mild entertainment

insiders also do not get takes on highly classified military equipment and operations from meme subreddits and consider them seriously

[eternal veldt]

no, the insiders leak them to war thunder instead

for entertainment

[desert agate]

those guys that did that leaking arent insiders

they have low level security clearances

[frigid karma]

the recent 'leaks' are more clickbaity than anything

overplaying how classified the f-16/mig-29 docs are

[desert agate]

the guys with medium to high security clearances generally dont talk about it and those that do dont do it much

[frigid karma]

type 99 shell was the biggest one

[desert agate]

type 99 was literally public knowledge bro

there was nothing on that sheet that wasnt open source

[frigid karma]

that one was public knowledge too?

[desert agate]

chally 2 was an actual leak

[frigid karma]

what about leclerc

[desert agate]

havent heard anything disputing its classification either

[ivory ridge]

Insiders dont take ncd seriously but the sub still has a lot of mic personnel

Plus you could be an insider of something and still enjoy the memes from the other branches

[desert agate]

wasnt disputing that

[cinder escarp]

I can assure you, there was no detailed knowledge on DTC-10-125 before da leek.

[frigid karma]

Some sources on either side of the argument here would help

[lime belfry]

well the Russians avoided getting their tank stats leaked to the public on WT by donating some tanks to NATO in perfect condition

some dudes are probably jerking off to the captured T-90M as we speak rn

probably in America

[spring briar]

Western APFSDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[shrewd pecan]

the uhhhhh

status of Russian darts rn ain't too great either

[delicate beacon]

Am in some wehrb forums because they had a great source

Can France alone win in 1938-40?
If that's the case, then the Germans wait until late 1940, then smash the Maginot line with 54 cm Karl morsers, and the 80 cm Gustav railway guns. They would eventually come up with the Fritz X too, and that would have been the end of the line as well. Of course, they still use 88's and 105 flak in direct fire to take out the observation cloches and such leaving the line impotent too.

[shrewd pecan]

🤨 always the unicorn weapon systems that can't be employed on mass

[delicate beacon]

What if Greece Joined the Axis

What if no German Scientists for cold war

These threads

People defending MacCunther

What if UK give France early warning radar

They could barely early warn themselves and that was with the extra time given by the invasion of France

Re: Germany could win Barbarossa by suppressing Italy

[maiden citrus]

[manic latch]

Isn't NCD point is like

NATO wanking

Hell it should be named as "Nato's community defense"

[shrewd pecan]

from what I understand it went from being a respectful community just to be overwhelmed by the reddit hordes after the war in Ukraine kicked off

idk some of the old people are there so you lose some you get some

[manic latch]

I thought it was always about

Western weapons are cutting edge God weapons

China/Russia weapons bad (insert memes)

[shrewd pecan]

it always had that tho the Reddit hordes made it far worse

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

most I've seen of it pre invasion was F-35 memes that were quite good

also considering recent events you can't help it when people are gonna bash the pieces of equipment that keep end up having atrocious attrition rates

even if its a debate between conduct of the user or quality of the equipment

[maiden citrus]

in simplicity, when the cat is out of the bag, it's gonna be memed

[shrewd pecan]

besides its not like everyone has crap worth bashing

🤨 I can bash the US's lack of a M109 replacement until recently, the BMD-4, Su-57 and QBZ-191 all day

[manic latch]

I mean things are silent until smh happens

Like Pumas breaking down being a thing when they trained

[shrewd pecan]

we've brought up crap like the PZH-2000s autoloader breaking after 100 rounds fired per day

[manic latch]

Yeah that's why I don't trust weapon hype unless they are in action

[shrewd pecan]

alongside attempts by Poland to break away from Defense industry dependency from Germany

[manic latch]

Like F35 looks great on every paper stats etc

But will it stay like that till it retires like F22?

Always good on paper but never shows it irl

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but the F-35s actually in widespread service

and seeing combat duty

[maiden citrus]

we've had videos posted this very day of what it can do

[shrewd pecan]

against Syrian air defense systems

and other crap

[manic latch]

Given F16s can handle that

Or even A10s
I ain't impressed

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but its combat service

where do you think the F-16 and F-15 got the bulk of its service?

[manic latch]

Oh that way

I was surprised that

Despite B-52 surprising loss rates in Vietnam

US kept them around

And will for decades

[shrewd pecan]

I mean that's because the B-52s mission set changed

[manic latch]

No more carpet?

[shrewd pecan]

her primary mission set is being a missile bus

beyond that she did pull carpet bombing missions essentially during the Gulf War

she can still do it but unless its guaranteed the enemy has limited air defense she's gonna be limited to cruise missile duty like she was during early war on terror and early gulf war air conflict

[manic latch]

[strong plank]

F-35 is also much more future-proofed

[manic latch]

Reg is back

[strong plank]

stelth

[shrewd pecan]

similarly put as I said the F-35s already been proving its combat capabilities in the Israeli Air Force and has seen combat with the US Marine Corps and USAF

[maiden citrus]

yeah I think there's a mistake being made of comparing things that hit hard stat targets and have an array of bizarrely incredible soft stat capabilities to things that can't even do their hard stat numbers

[maiden citrus]

and we're happy he is

[strong plank]

What’s killing the F-22 isn’t its performance, it’s the headaches and difficulty involved in getting newer munitions to work with systems made in the 90s

[manic latch]

[strong plank]

at least as far as I’m aware

[shrewd pecan]

shame there isn't the budget for a rework of the F-22 fleet

[maiden citrus]

we're also happy for latest azur lane anthology chapter

[strong plank]

It would be cool to see a raptor with modern systems

some sort of ‘super raptor’ with modern data links, improved stealth coatings, etc

but that’s just a fantasy

[maiden citrus]

our universe isn't ready for that

[shrewd pecan]

honestly just smacking most of the JSF systems in her just to keep her more relevant until NGAD turns up

[manic latch]

Ngad?

[shrewd pecan]

I mean NGADs just

gonna be weird

at this point I'm expecting that thing to just be the pill

[strong plank]

If all the funky renders are to be taken seriously

NGAD’s gonna be real fucky

[shrewd pecan]

ngad test footage

[strong plank]

man

Pentagon UFO shit is just funny

most of it’s just the computer not understanding something

tracking a flying bird going the opposite way

“Holy shit it’s fast”

[shrewd pecan]

a lot of bizarre shit with a lot of possible answers

[strong plank]

Can’t wait for NGAD to just be an F-15 but round

or it’ll just look like the goofiest shit imaginable

[shrewd pecan]

I mean I'm expecting to be a F-22 but for 4 buds and a compacted E-7 radar

shit is meant to be a AWACs, a deep penetrator and unfueled absolute air supremacy all in one platform

[eternal veldt]

@desert agate oi, your waifu

[strong plank]

now you’ve got me picturing a raptor with a comically large dish

[shrewd pecan]

makes you wonder what dumb prototypes that are out there that hasn't seen the light of day

[maiden citrus]

can we call it the raptor gastrolith system when they install the round radar dish on the belly

[strong plank]

it’s just a modernized XB-70 with stealth coatings

“We plan to secure air dominance with shit tons of AMRAAMs”

[shrewd pecan]

AMRAAMs?

nah we upgrading

JATMs

I'm expecting all of the renders like this tbh

to be absolutely wrong considering people re talking about this thing having up to 4 crewmembers

ok now I'm just descending into the rabbit hole

[maiden citrus]

that does look cool though

[shrewd pecan]

ace combat plane

[strong plank]

Air Force adopts one of those AC-looking concept planes
maintenance crew suicide rates increase 40%

[dusty kraken]

How much more can we dorito-fy them

[shrewd pecan]

we're doomed to forever maintenance hell

👁️ thank god I will never be a maintainer

[maiden citrus]

late era macross aircraft

[strong plank]

me any time I think about joining the military

[shrewd pecan]

2030s infantry man watching the attached JTAC call in the NGAD and it drops 600 kamikaze drones on the enemies location

[strong plank]

“I’d want to go Navy, but I’ve got some firearm experience so I wonder if there are any roles where I could use tha-wait that’s just the marines”

[manic latch]

Wonder what 10th generation plane would look like

Shame we won't see it in this century or more

[shrewd pecan]

unsc pelicans being glassed by the convenant

[manic latch]

Tho... generation are getting shorter

[shrewd pecan]

shorter?

there getting even longer

[manic latch]

Hold up

We already got the Sixth gen bomber tho

[maiden citrus]

I intend to be alive in 3 different centuries

[shrewd pecan]

we have sixth gen fighter prototypes

[strong plank]

Oh that reminds me

I didn’t get to show my swag before I left

[shrewd pecan]

and the 35s staying until the 2070s at a minimum

[manic latch]

Well yeah Gerald Ford class's aim is those years as well

Next carrier will either be big as her or smaller

[strong plank]

The Nimitz’s served for a good while

[manic latch]

Tho will depend on NJAD's size

[strong plank]

So the Fords likely will too

[shrewd pecan]

man we're gonna be dead or in the home by the time the last Nimitz leaves service

[strong plank]

behold

[manic latch]

50 years

Ford will be around 60? In 2070s

[shrewd pecan]

odds are the Fords are gonna have a nice long production run

tho I'm probably over estimating the length of George H. Ws service life

[manic latch]

Should be 10 like Nimitz

[shrewd pecan]

no real reason why she won't

unless there's something that comes up that needs a massive shift in design

[manic latch]

CVLs when

[shrewd pecan]

never

[strong plank]

I meaaaaaan

[manic latch]

https://news.usni.org/2021/02/01/light-carrier-studies-already-underway-as-navy-considers-role-for-cvls-in-future-fleet

Shut

[shrewd pecan]

so

more America's

the navy daring to put any form of investment into the shipyards to expand carrier building capacity

[strong plank]

They were mentioned in a navy plan a while back

[manic latch]

NGAD will come before Burke replacement

[strong plank]

like as a separate thing from lightning carriers

[manic latch]

Yeah my concept of CVL is it should be able to use non vtol planes

[shrewd pecan]

I mean I can kinda see the use in CVLs

tho the issue is

budget combined with who's gonna build the damn thing in a reasonable amount of time

[strong plank]

Ok yeah it was Esper who’d brought it up

[shrewd pecan]

since I do not trust navy's to reliably get a program done outside some major reforms and changes to procurement

[desert agate]

The ncd of old would have trashed on the NATO wanking of today

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

F-35 block 4 yes current F-35s absolutely not

[manic latch]

Needs New radar and engine ye

[desert agate]

Best girl

[desert agate]

Needs to actually be multi role

LRASM integration is a must

Current F-35s may not be able to be integrated with LRASM and similar modern systems

Older blocks already can't be

Eg the first 2 F-35s the RAAF got can't be upgraded

Block 4s will be the first F-35s to actually meet the F-35 program requirements

And given there's already been 500+ produced is not a good mark on the program overall

[shrewd pecan]

I'm assuming

[delicate beacon]

The ships were to be around 28,000tons, armed with 9 11" guns as main arnament and with 12 4"DP guns, 14 40mm AA AND 8 20mm AA.
Speed around 34knots, range 4500miles, with main belt armour of between 4-10inches

[shrewd pecan]

you're going to be able to rebuild F-35s to the block 4 standard

[strong plank]

Sang jumpscare

[delicate beacon]

Displ: 27,950 tons standard
Dim: 777.6 x 98.5 x 25.5 feet
Prop: Steam turbines, 8 boilers, 4 shafts, 180,000 hp, 34 knots
Crew: 1050
Arm: 3 triple 11/45, 6 dual 4.7/45, 7 dual 40 mm AA, 8 20 mm AA
Armor: 8.9 inch belt, 1.2-3.9 inch deck, 9.8 inch barbettes, 9.8 inch turrets.

[shrewd pecan]

if not welp we get to look forward to F-35 early MLUs somepoint in the near future

[delicate beacon]

I'm going to kill some people
||my lawyer told me to specify this is a joke||

[desert agate]

If that were the case (which it is not confirmed either way) it will be ridiculously expensive

[strong plank]

The Air Force has reduced its request for F-35s in recent years, with officials saying they prefer to wait for the more advanced Block 4 version of the jet and want to avoid having to retrofit as many of its existing F-35 fleet to the Block 4 standard as possible.

Seems like it’s a possibility

[desert agate]

And there is already precedent in the program for software and hardware upgrades being impossible within certain production blocks

[desert agate]

There's no confirmation either way we won't know for sure for a few years I'd wager

Either way though, not a good mark on the programs record

[shrewd pecan]

I'm assuming if block 4 rebuilds aren't a option

there's just gonna be some MLU upgrade somepoint in the near future for older aircraft

[desert agate]

F-35 was rushed into mass production without the proper integrations under pressure from congress and international customers and is currently paying the price for that

[desert agate]

That's already not an option for the block 1s (iirc the first 2 RAAF birds were block 1)

Whose to say it won't be an option for the block 3s

[shrewd pecan]

I mean at that point the block 1s are probably just gonna end up being training aircraft

tho I don't see why a MLU upgrade somepoint in the near future wouldn't be doable

[desert agate]

Reason for the older birds is software incompatibility

Basically would need a whole new software suite built for the upgrade

Which is a ridiculously expensive and time intensive process

[shrewd pecan]

is it tied to the aircraft itself or just the computer systems?

[desert agate]

I don't know all I've been told is software without elaboration

[shrewd pecan]

since I don't see why they couldn't add later block functionality with a installation of a additional mission computer or just replacing the older computers

[desert agate]

I'd assume the specifics to be classified

If it were doable it would be done

There's evidently a limiting factor somewhere

[shrewd pecan]

what's even the limits in terms of functionality?

beyond employment of LRASMs

I'm assuming they can still employ the standard range of guided munitions and air to air munitions

[desert agate]

LRASM is huge for USN USMC and international customers

[shrewd pecan]

yeah I get that

block 2 was basic combat functionality

[desert agate]

JASSM afaik

[shrewd pecan]

so basically

any long range standoff capability is going to be limited to block 4

[desert agate]

First RAAF birds must have been block 2 then

[shrewd pecan]

yeah block 2s the first ones with combat functionality

block 4 is just seeming like the difference between block 10/15 F-16 and block 50/52 F-16 but for the F-35

[manic latch]

Wait. So if I bought 100 Block 2 as X nation

I have to pay money to US to make it block 4?

[desert agate]

Maybe for the air force

[shrewd pecan]

it seems you can still upgrade up to block 3

[desert agate]

But it's a basic requirement for anyone intending to use their planes on ships

[shrewd pecan]

yeah naval is different obviously

[shrewd pecan]

or you just buy a squadron of block 4s

its probably why a lot of customers waited until later on tbh to place orders

[desert agate]

RAAF is saying otherwise

On upgrades to block 3

[shrewd pecan]

"The F-35 program is also conducting sustainment and upgrade development, with early LRIP aircraft gradually upgraded to the baseline Block 3F standard by 2021.[66]" unsure if to take this at face value or not

tho information regarding block upgrades doesn't seem readily out there

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

it really boils down to

what you want out of your 35

I made the comparison of early 16s to late 16s for a reason

[manic latch]

If you want balistic missile defense

It has to be block 4 right

[shrewd pecan]

I don't really think

any of the 35s have that capability outside of detection

the IRST on the block 2 should still have the capability

tho uhhhhhhhhhhh good luck doing ballistic defense on a plane

[manic latch]

Tbh interceptors should focus this

[shrewd pecan]

I'd rather

dump money into land and sea based ballistic defense platforms

that can datalink with the F-35 for tracking info

[manic latch]

Sixth Gen Mig 31

Yo what if like

You put 4 AETP engines on a single plane

[shrewd pecan]

man

I don't even want to imagine the ace combat shit you'd need to do in a 35

to intercept a ballistic missile while its in terminal

cruise missiles are doable since they aren't dropping from space

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/l419dJ1qiRI

[shrewd pecan]

and honestly any modern aircraft can do that

aim-9xing a terminal missile while full afterburning at a 60 degree climb

[cinder escarp]

The cost to update a Block 1 bird (nobody has really but the USAF, a non-issue), TR-1, or TR-2 bird to the upcoming TR-3 spec is... more than buying a new plane thanks to having to totally disassemble and reassemble it to upgrade the relevant parts.

To sum it up otherwise, planes lot 10 and earlier are doomed.

Do you have a block 4 bird? If not, go home.

[zealous vine]

How well built were Italian BBs?

I read they had a shit ton of rangefinders, along with having better armour quality among other navies

[cinder escarp]

The problem is, to be blunt - the vanilla hardware, TR-1 hardware, and TR-2 hardware are just not up to the full task. Block 4 - 40 series, is the way forward. (Block 4 - 30 series despite being called 'block 4' is just tweaks and fixes for Block 3F, this is why they have the same software release series)

[eternal veldt]

The Littorios were decent vessels - Their guns are decent and on gun exercises, had acceptable dispersion values - despite certain historians keep bashing them on "shitty shells" - which were the exception rather than the norm and only happened during Operation Gavdos. As for rangefinders, I believe you are referring to the gyrostabilised lookout stations, the Littorios fielded two massive rangefinders on top of their towers, stacked together.

On the matter of vertical armour, it is a bit in the fishy zone: While the composite armour with cellulite was expected to stop shells and were supposed to be more effective than other nations' single cemented plate, no other nations have really tried it other than Italy, and thus it is in the ??? zone. That said, I don't think the Regia Marina would put that system in place if it was not thoroughly tested.

The Pugliese Torpedo defence system was mediocre - with the main drawback being very space consuming hull-wise with no significant advantage over a conventional TDS system.

Criticism of the ships should be drawn to the weaker main horizontal protection of only 100mm over the machinery deck, which was realized far too late (and may be why Roma suffered catastrophically), the lack of radar until 1942~ish, and the mediocre mounting of the 90mm guns, which while itself is a decent gun, its range is limited due to the small caliber and thus, fragmentation of the round was smaller and less effective at stopping planes. The gun mount itself is also not ideal, mainly because of the 90mm stabilisation system frequently failing and breaking down from its delicacy and water damage.

I'd also nitpick that the aircraft handling arrangement was less than ideal, with the Ro.43s frequently destroyed or damaged due to battle damage or shock - But, the arrangement was done as they expect the Ca.316 to be put into service -but that never came to fruition, so it's relatively minor, and planes can be replaced relatively easily.

(Please don't kill me if I get this wrong Phoenix)

I'm also not sure why Italy opted to put their diesel generators outside the citadel as built - which failed to operate the pumps during the attack on Taranto and did cause Littorio to drink up a lot of water - nonetheless, problems with the flooding and damage control practices were identified and were remedied in the following years.

[tribal mortar]

Battle of leyte gulf in a nutshell
Sakura empire ------<filipino skk>------- Eagle union

[alpine onyx]

I think the reliability talk of the 90mm mounts on the Littorios is somewhat overblown. On the Dorias they were right on the weather deck, and them drowning in spray and breakwater would cause issues (like it would for any HA mount that was more sophisticated than a rock with a stick tied to it). On the Littorios, partially due to their no-deck-opening requirement, they were elevated, and thus should fare a lot better

But it's still only a 90mm gun, and only six of them per side, giving the Littorios some of the worst heavy AA suites of all modern battleships (I'll let the jury decide between Littorio, Richelieu and Yamato)

[chilly osprey]

Richelieu probably falls on the bottom of the three just due to the rushed nature of their installation, and the guns were of somewhat mediocre performance. Probably more equal to the Italian 100/47 than anything else.

But, yeah, the limited heavy AA was a major weakness of the Littorio design

[alpine onyx]

And I guess the Americans just dismounting the HA director

"You won't need that, right?"

[chilly osprey]

Which is party due to the lack of a true DP gun developed before the war to succeed the 100/47, and also just down to the fact the design was older than most of the other fast battleships. She was the first of the '35,000-tonners', after all.

[chilly osprey]

This is correct. The diesel generators still had armor protection, but only against shells because it was outside the citadel, and obviously much lighter armor than anywhere in the citadel. It was probably one of the biggest flaws of the design, if not the biggest.

[alpine onyx]

I guess, if you count the ugly sisters as 35,000 tonners you have them share that title

[chilly osprey]

As far as how well built the ships were - quite well, it has to be said. They were structurally very sound ships, and generally did a very good job of absorbing damage even when things like torpedoes or bombs did overwhelm their armor protection or strike outside their citadel - particularly after damage control procedures were improved in 1940-41.

Ex, very few battleships can suffer a deflagration in their main magazines, and rather than immediately blow apart, remain afloat and not capsize for another 20 minutes. This is one reason why 30% of Roma's crew survived, versus, say, the 3 individuals that survived the loss of Hood.

That said - while I would note that the 100mm deck over the magazines was undeniably a weak point in the ship's defenses, it is debatable as to this being the reason for Roma suffering as she did.

Recall, the first bomb that hit her in fact penetrated through the weaker machinery armor deck (likely a 90mm section) and ended up plunging through the ship, detonating underneath her keel - devastating, but not a mortal wound for Roma.

The second hit that ended up in her port forward engine room exploded in this space, rather than under the ship, and hit far forward enough that it is quite likely that it in fact penetrated through the 150mm armor deck, which did extend as far aft as the conning tower. This probably slowed the bomb enough that it didn't just penetrate through the ship and go off below it, which may have actually been more survivable than what actually happened.

[chilly osprey]

Honestly I'd question if there's any battleship that could have actually defeated a Fritz X drop. Yamato, perhaps?

[lime belfry]

Iowa can just laser the He 111 out of the sky with their massive AA net (provided the crew knew before hand)

[shut wren]

Sucide stuka

[eternal veldt]

I raised this one mostly since the Fritz X, per my memory, is rated for 130-150mm around 5k altitude

Beefing up the battery deck a bit more may have helped

Still, the Italian plan to try to put more 36mm plating over the weather deck to compensate sounded silly nonetheless.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjJ9FyO6T4

[chilly osprey]

I would note that was intended only for use in port, but, it wasn't even a plan, and never moved beyond a proposal by the Commission for Military Material Experiments (MARIPERMAN)

It was undeniably silly

[eternal veldt]

Looks at PT Boat radar
Here, best radar we have for a BB. Take it or leave it.

No, we don't have something called the "SG" or "SK".

Here are some shittily manufactured propellent charges for your main guns as well - again, best we can do.

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Deletes catapult and Loire 130

I'm doing this for your own good, avgas bad, you don't need spotting aircraft anyway

Here, some bofors, no crying now

[frigid karma]

No radar or spotter?

This is not what wows taught me

[eternal veldt]

Leave it to Sara Maru to do the spotting

[spring briar]

@alpine onyx

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

Tf you doing talking about ToV again

[alpine onyx]

I say that the Deutschlands were a middle finger towards the intentions behind the naval restrictions of the ToV

Which they were

[spring briar]

Not like that

[alpine onyx]

ToV gave comically small tonnages for all ship types

800 ton destroyers and 200 ton torpedo boats

Like

No

[spring briar]

I mean

[frigid karma]

Can anyone check if those helmets are accurate

[spring briar]

There’s a reason its harsh

And it isn’t even harsh

[alpine onyx]

This is 800 tons

[frigid karma]

AFAIK, Russian putilov drivers didn’t have special uniforms

[alpine onyx]

Yes, and the Germans decided to alter the deal without altering it

By downgrading

[frigid karma]

And if they did, I dont quite think they would look like that

Some info would be appreciated

[alpine onyx]

The battleships became heavy cruisers, the destroyers became torpedo boats, the torpedo boats became minesweepers

And they made generally good use of that

With the Deutschlands being their "hahaha fuck you" message

[spring briar]

The biggest “fuck you” was Keynes being a little bitch

[alpine onyx]

Now, let me play with a DLand doing coastal defense duties for South America

[spring briar]

Idc as long as you don’t elect assholes

[alpine onyx]

I rely on you, Stresemann

Meet up with that Frenchie with a fancy moustache

[spring briar]

🤝

Man wehraboos could’ve just

Not existed

[tough quail]

thats what gallows are for

[spring briar]

Too quick

If done correctly that is

Mfw boilers run for far longer than they are rated for, yet they still perform fine and when under maintenance they only show dirty boiler tubes

In tropical waters no less

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

when the propulsion is based

[spring briar]

Masséna in 1905

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1617526329175592961

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1968, USS Pueblo was captured by North Korea. Forced to pose for propaganda photos, the crew displayed their middle fingers which they told their captors was a "Hawaiian good luck sign." Time magazine revealed the gesture's true meaning, resulting in the crew being beaten.

Likes

139

Twitter · Jan 23, 2023, 2:15 PM

[frigid karma]

Balloon aprons

[spiral cedar]

That's a new KAN-SEN outfit

[frigid karma]

The tic tac?

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1617596485511843840

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1795, the Dutch fleet was captured by French cavalry when the ships became trapped in ice near Den Helder. French historians portrayed the event as a bold charge that overwhelmed the fleet, but Dutch historians claim the fleet negotiated a peaceful surrender to the French.

Twitter · Jan 23, 2023, 6:53 PM

[spring briar]

@eternal veldt can you read any of this?

I believe I found the 240mm super gun shells

[delicate beacon]

My cringiest cite so far.

[spring briar]

[delicate beacon]

Very representative of the Axis forces.

[tough quail]

if only japan didnt out perform germany in the war

[frigid karma]

They had a head start in 1937, basically guaranteeing gold at the war crime Olympics

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1617351274407632897

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

In 1991, Surfer magazine named the Sturgeon-class attack submarine USS Tautog (SSN-639) the "hottest surfboard in the world" after a SEAL was photographed riding on top of the sail.
#SubSunday

Likes

455

Twitter · Jan 23, 2023, 2:39 AM

[rapid junco]

It's been a while since i found this
And i forgot to share it here
Some... "catchy" book covers

"All you need to know about World War I"

"All you have to know about World War I"

"Brief History of World War II"

[shut wren]

Shows T-34-85*

[rapid junco]

Yeah
It was on my favourite history Youtuber's community page
Ofc it was a post mocking those

[eternal veldt]

I think I get most of it. What would you like to know?

[deep apex]

On this day on January 23, 1944, HMS Janus is sunk by Hs 293 guided missiles from Dornier Do 217s from KG 100. The magazines detonate and she sinks in 20 minutes. All except 80 of her crew are killed.

https://youtu.be/NbLdw7vbOAU

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1617699677528535041

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

It's #NationalPieDay! To help commemorate USS George Washington's (CVN-73) first vertical replenishment with a submarine in 1992, an SH-3 Sea King from the aircraft carrier delivered cherry pies to USS Hammerhead (SSN-663).

Twitter · Jan 24, 2023, 1:43 AM

[remote monolith]

question, in sheer weight of firepower which is heavier, a contemporary artillery bombardment, or a typical WWI western front bombardment? Just curious if modern technology offsets the fact that quantitatively there's fewer pieces online for a barrage today, but the payload tends to be more advanced

[spiral cedar]

Latter

The former is more efficient of course

But in weight of steel, WWI barrages are unrivaled

[frigid karma]

even with advanced payloads, there's only so much weight you can cram into a single 155

and WWI barrages had millions of shells going out, there's really no comparison

[remote monolith]

aah ty ty

[tough quail]

large dorito

[spring briar]

Everything

[eternal veldt]

I'll whip up a translation later. Do you have a similar shell written in English so I can translate accurately?

[frigid karma]

is this japanese documentation of a 240mm french shell?

[teal token]

In same attack that Janus was sunk, Jervis is also damaged, but survives and even without losing any crew. Lucky!

[eternal veldt]

Newly built F4U Corsair and F6F Hellcats being prepared to be shipped to the Pacific theatre, USA, 1944

[maiden citrus]

[frigid karma]

The isonzo ost is a banger ngl

might consider picking it up

[eternal veldt]

@spring briar to the best of my ability

[remote monolith]

related to earlier question, how many modern artillery pieces would it take to replicate the earth shattering barrages of WWI? Dozens? Hundreds?

[frigid karma]

pick one

somme?

nivelle?

kaiserschlact?

have you been playing more bf1?

👀

[remote monolith]

nah, I was just worldbuilding a bit and it get to the point where an artillery barrage appeared, and I pondered about the implications a bit

anyway, let's say Somme

[frigid karma]

somme had about 1.5m shells fired over a week before

[eternal veldt]

Hundreds.

[frigid karma]

too bad a lot of it is shrapnel

[spring briar]

No bc I don’t know what it says on the image i sent to you

It’s the shells for the type 90 240mm schneider railway gun france sold to Japan

[lime belfry]

Not much

During the battle of Quang Tri in 1972, the US threw more shells and bombs on it to rival Verdun

All u need is 1 Iowa class battleship

Several ARVN and US artillery batteries of 105mm and 150mm

A couple of Destroyers and Heavy cruisers

Plus the bombs as well

So really, it would be super easy for modern US army and air force to recreate a WW1 bombardment

If they want to of course

[remote monolith]

wasn't the bombardments of Vietnam a result of over 10 years of warfare? It's not like the US spent all those munitions within a single week in a single place for the purpose of a single battle no? I'm talking about a specific bombardment for a specific engagement like an opening salvo.

[frigid karma]

the battle he is specifically talking about is 2nd battle of quang tri

[remote monolith]

aah I see

[frigid karma]

about 3 months or so of continuous warfare, with

like

1.6m shells fired

or about the same number as the no. of shells fired in the preceding week to somme

still not quite comparable

[remote monolith]

how so?

was it just less intense because its not in a single week?

[frigid karma]

Higher density of fire, yea

https://twitter.com/Beags_Beagle/status/1613556327384498176?s=20&t=P8EduQynZIEejhiSdsFZTA

Milford H. Beagle, Jr. (@Beags_Beagle)

We have the technology and we are going to use it 🙌🏾 Awesome to demo 3D Virtual reality to the TRADOC CG and Army G3. Huge implications for our force. This is a view of what it looks like under the goggles. #drivechange @usacactraining

Likes

378

Twitter · Jan 12, 2023, 3:19 PM

[eternal veldt]

@spring briar did the translation make sense

[spring briar]

Yes

[lime belfry]

HALO and SW slowly becoming real

[valid trout]

Was there an Iowa there at quant tri?

I can’t find anything saying there was shelling from a us navy fleet

All I found was that there was a diversionary fleet but nothing about them shelling

[lime belfry]

New Jersey was in Quang Tri

[valid trout]

Ah ok

Was she part of the diversionary fleet?

[lime belfry]

they found her shell long ago, pretty big lad it is

[valid trout]

So she fired shells

But I find any account of her firing her guns

[lime belfry]

New Jersey was in Quang Tri in 1969, not in 1972

she did leave quite a mark there

she fired 5866 406mm shells and roughly 14000 127mm shells during her time in Vietnam

but the only ship in AL to reference Vietnam war is Bunker Hill

mentioning the Dragon Jaw bridge, aka Ham Rong in Thanh Hoa

[valid trout]

Ahh ok

Newport News was also there iirc

[eternal veldt]

Lots of ships were reactivated for Vietnam

Saint Paul being another notable one

[eternal veldt]

Italian battleship Conte di Cavour is towed, her stern first, out of Mar Grande and into Mar Piccolo for repairs.

[frigid karma]

Downloaded wt

I hate what I’m doing to myself

[dapper parcel]

downloads WT
sees SSD at 90% capacity
immediately deletes WT
80% again, phew

This happened for, like, three times for me, idk what I'm doing

[delicate beacon]

I really should visit NIMH.

[dapper parcel]

Nickel Metal Hydride?

[delicate beacon]

installs WT
uninstalls WT
uninstalls WT
uninstalls WT
uninstalls WT
uninstalls WT
new PC
does not install WT

Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie

Guess what it translates to

They have info on some post war 15cm triple turret

But I also need to read up on some Bofors stuff for Van Kinsbergen

and much much more

[dapper parcel]

Wait, it was different from the Swedish one?

[frigid karma]

laughs in 1.6TB

[dapper parcel]

I have 2x 1TB, just that I use it for DB/scratch/compile stuff so I can't risk too high write amplification

[shut wren]

homie which tree you going

[frigid karma]

https://information.tv5monde.com/info/sans-aucun-port-d-accueil-l-ancien-porte-avions-foch-erre-en-mer-486165

With no port of call, the former aircraft carrier Foch is roaming the seas

Clémenceau (same class as Foch)

"A former flagship of the French navy, the aircraft carrier Foch, which became the Sao Paulo in 2000 when it passed under the Brazilian flag, is roaming the seas in search of a port of refuge with the risk of ending up on the ocean floor.

The Brazilian navy announced that it had taken the 266-metre long old hull, filled with asbestos, paint and other toxic waste, in tow in the Atlantic Ocean, 315 kilometres off the Brazilian coast, on Friday.

It said in a statement that in view of its state of deterioration and "the high risk" it poses to the environment, it would not allow its return to a port or to Brazilian territorial waters.

The former aircraft carrier, which served the French Navy for 37 years, was previously towed by a Dutch tug for the Turkish shipyard Sok Denizcilik. The latter bought it for scrap in April 2021, but threatened to abandon it if no port was found to receive it.

Environmental organisations are warning that the old ship, built in the late 1950s in Saint-Nazaire, western France, could end its life on the ocean floor. They fear a "scuttling operation" by the Brazilian authorities.

The Brazilian navy is now "preparing to commit a major environmental crime at sea", warns Jim Puckett, director of the Basel Action Network (BAN), saying in a statement that he fears it will "sink" the hull "using a false excuse". "[1]

TLDR : an old French aircraft carrier full of asbestos and waste is in danger of being sunk which would be bad for the environment

Who here wants to steal a French carrier

[shut wren]

Me

I go steal for china

[frigid karma]

I know a guy from Somalia he can help

[shut wren]

Gimme his number

[shut wren]

Also which tree you grinding in WT?

[frigid karma]

This will be French ur event

Foch II

Now with asbestos

[spring briar]

@unkempt jungle remember V3?
yeah I found a book from 1887 which has a weapon of the exact same concept

[shut wren]

German tree?

[frigid karma]

? Haven’t started playing yet

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

Too busy

Will probably grind Chinese tree because their theme is a banger

[chilly osprey]

You know, some days, you have a normal one

And then on others, someone asks if you can use RDX as a warship propellant

[shut wren]

fr chinese banners are good

[chilly osprey]

Congratulations, today, I'm tired of you already

Anywho

https://twitter.com/SebNofficial/status/1617913376910499842

Sébastien Nofficial (@SebNofficial)

L'aboutissement d'une thèse... Merci aux @PUReditions. Vivement le 9 février !

Twitter · Jan 24, 2023, 3:53 PM

@spring briar

[spring briar]

oh no

Le parlement

can buy it

[frigid karma]

Is le parlement “the history”?

[spring briar]

le parlement is the parliament

[frigid karma]

Oh

[chilly osprey]

XD

[frigid karma]

The parliament of the French navy?

[spring briar]

the french parliament

[frigid karma]

The French parliament of the navy?

Trying to extrapolate my high school Spanish to French is hard

[chilly osprey]

If I'm reading that right, it's;

The Parliament and the Navy in France: A Political History of the Navy

[frigid karma]

Ah

[spring briar]

the political history of the MN

pretty interesting

where can I get this

[chilly osprey]

I don't know, I just saw the tweet and thought you'd be interested

[spring briar]

SH. 21. Rifled 280/250 mm projectile

[lime belfry]

While hunting for more hidden AL sprite art

I came to notice this

Albion EX has a very special Barracuda

The torpedo sprite is different from the normal Barracuda torpedo sprite

[frigid karma]

No there’s a plane

Look for the red bar

[lime belfry]

I did mean those

But they yeet around map like torpedo

Not bomb

The typical torpedo spite is a blue one

This one looks a bit special

[spring briar]

my sprite cranberry

[lime belfry]

I dont think skip bomb looks like that

[frigid karma]

It looks like a sprite bottle rocket

[shut wren]

Makes me think why did sprite change from green to clear bottles

also can someone tell if this thing actually existed in real life and not a funny place holder

[shrewd pecan]

It was a real thing if I recall correctly

[shut wren]

Nice

this thing slaps

[tough quail]

it's z zis-2

a zis-2 has been applied to just about anything you can think of at some point

and a zis-3 literally everything

[shut wren]

Not t-34

[tough quail]

some factory probably bodged a zis-3 in

that wasnt supposed to be a ping whoops

[shut wren]

Some have Zis-4s

[ornate wind]

Hey is the Bearcat’s warload in game somewhat underrepresented? I’ve been reading the operation manual on the thing and it seems capable of mounting a pair of 1000lb or 500lb bombs and 4 HVARs as opposed to the single 1000lb bomb we have.

[ornate wind]

I would assume that the bomb depicted here is a 500lb judging by its size next to the HVAR.

[ivory ridge]

Payloads are a balancing factor and barely and not meant to be fully correct

[ornate wind]

Aside from torpedos, I thought many planes had a fairly accurate payload

[ivory ridge]

Sure, but we reached late war and even post war planes now

[shut wren]

Like the la-5s not having rockets as they did in real life

Really balanced yes

[ornate wind]

Most planes in the immediate post war era weren’t exactly a huge step up as their designs were largely drawn up in the earlier years of the war

Bearcats were designed much earlier than their service date and could be considered a wartime design imo

[ivory ridge]

Again, it doesn't matter, it's for balance

[ornate wind]

For game balance?

[ivory ridge]

Yes

[ornate wind]

I mean sure but the bearcat is by no means a good piece of gear

[ivory ridge]

And if it had all its stuff if would have to be UR

So

[deep apex]

Wayback machine was purged for the f22 one and reddit destroyed the acc

Also the 2nd one....yeah

[shut wren]

a while ago someone sent me ZTZ-99a Classifyed Ammo documents

[deep apex]

Why are people doing this?

[delicate beacon]

Various reasons.

[shut wren]

They gotta prove that they are more correct about Military tanks n shit

About a game

[delicate beacon]

Sometimes you just want the vehicle you operate to be the best

[spiral cedar]

If it’s actually classified info they can’t use it in the game

It’s to win internet arguments with other obsessives

Not to change the game itself

The problem is not the game, but the forums

[shut wren]

The snail said that If its classified and not released,They wont add it

[spiral cedar]

Yes

[ivory ridge]

Unless you found the account somewhere else and saw it deleted, removed posts always show the OP as deleted

Same for removed and deleted comments

Unless you found a comment which is still up as shows the OP as deleted, it's just how reddit works

[frigid karma]

I’m also not sure why someone would bother posting f22 manuals if it’s not even in the game

[shut wren]

It was the F-16 and Aim 120

[shrewd pecan]

beyond the shit being purged

there’s no evidence of it being actual F-22 crap beyond redditors probably panicking and having everything purged

tho a discussion over that post did get me su-27 documents

[shut wren]

I gotta lurk around there more often

[shrewd pecan]

I mean if you want the actual classified crap descend into some of the DCS forums

[shut wren]

to DCS forums i go

[junior trench]

[shrewd pecan]

some of my friends who play DCS have seen everything from unknown AIM-120 documents to crap about the F-15s radar

On some of the forms

[shut wren]

ask em about Ztz 99a stuff

Some mf sent me the chinese docs of the ammo

[shrewd pecan]

Hell the leaked MIG-29 crap was there as well long before it hit war thunder

and now I have my hands on export restricted SU-27 documents thanks to it

[shut wren]

Im gonna take a stroll there

hope i dont get kidnapped by the NKVD

[shrewd pecan]

Tho generally put

Almost all of these documents are likely old as crap especially when it comes to aviation

[shut wren]

true

[shrewd pecan]

Odds are most intelligence services already have their hands on them long before us in the public get them

[shut wren]

some times they silp

[shrewd pecan]

like there are privately owned Su-27s in the US

[shut wren]

i see

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/LockheedMartin/status/1618001949185417217

Lockheed Martin (@LockheedMartin)

First Flight Alert! A new era of F-16 begins. Meet the Block 70 Fighting Falcon. 👋

Watch to learn more ⬇️

Likes

348

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jan 24, 2023, 9:45 PM

[tough quail]

shoutout to my three f-16 fans in the world

[ivory ridge]

[maiden citrus]

f16 is poggers

[cold pumice]

Who has the numbers for the amount of shipping sunk by uboats

[shut wren]

Tonnage or?

[cold pumice]

Tonnage

[frigid karma]

https://mapsterman.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/fe88b5e18c6443c7afaf6e32f8432687

oh wait, this doesn't let you separate by ship type

[shrewd pecan]

anyway since I found a good graphic for the F-35 block discussion earlier @desert agate

[deep apex]

J-20B cockpit dropped

[shut wren]

mfs looks like they building a 1:1 model

[strong plank]

think they can still squeeze a few more screens in

[thorny patio]

So the temper-temper incident happened during the Korean war, March 15th, 1952 of the coast of... Well.... Korea...

The Iowa-class US Wisconsin (BB-64) was stationed off the coast to lay down artillery barages against fortified enemy positions... Standard stuff, easy job for the big girl, right?

Well on that day, she received her first ever direct hit by an enemy 155mm gun battery... But she didn't suffer hardly any damage, only coming out with a few injured sailors and minimal damage to the ship herself...

So how does this behemoth of a ship respond?

BY CONCENTRATING HER ENTIRE BATTERY OF 9 406mm CANONS ON THE ENEMY POSITION AND SIMUL-FIRING

afterwards one of her escorting ships only responded with "temper temper" before moving along

[shut wren]

Imagine that but like AL

[thorny patio]

To be clear, just one of her 406mm guns would be enough to obliterate most any lightly armored position... She used ALL 9

I would love AL to make Wisconsin and angy teenager

[shut wren]

Yes I know how cannons work

Shit goes boom

Crazy how far tech has come

Like in the olden days this was almost unstoppable without air superiority

But now we just send some missiles at it and it blows up

[thorny patio]

Tbf, the same results just faster ships, faster projectiles, BIGGER BOOM

[shut wren]

Make me wonder though

What if the Qing dynasty used all the heavy arms in its stockpile instead of mindless charging

[thorny patio]

The Quing dynasty? Their issue was a "head-in-the-sand" political thinking coupled with their inability to modernize against European/japanese imperialism

And even if they had modernized, I feel it would go down the same path as japan

Now THAT would be a nightmare

[shut wren]

They had a decent amout of modern shit

They just refused to use it

[thorny patio]

Cus imagine all that manpower fully utilized under the control of a nation basing it's policies off of western imperialism

[shut wren]

Alt history fans:

[thorny patio]

Now had Suns republic not been BETRAYED by his armies general, it would have been quite interesting

[shut wren]

I remember an Graf.Novel about If the Qing Modernized, It expanded from Normandy France across eurasia and that stuff

[thorny patio]

Gosh, the story of the Chinese Republic is just sad...

Even moreso when you read how Sun-yat-sen is the one figure both communists and Nationalists respect and love

[shut wren]

The communist Love him better

but anyways

I kinda wish The Korean War turned out better for China

They Could have made it happen

[thorny patio]

Made what happen?

[shut wren]

Better Victory/Terms In Korea

[frigid karma]

it was a 152

[thorny patio]

The only reason they intervened was not out of any love for Kim-Il-sung but to prevent a US puppet-state (which south Korea was admittedly at the time) from popping up at their doorstep

[shut wren]

I know that,They wanted a buffer Zone

[lime belfry]

well seeing what it was like to live in North Korea now

I am glad the Chinese didnt win too big

[frigid karma]

North Korean artillery is most likely soviet, so despite some reports of 155 it's more than likely a 152 especially for the time period

[lime belfry]

otherwise a lot more folks gonna be in a bad spot

although I fully understand North Korean were way richer than South Korean up until late 80s

[frigid karma]

yes, basically

but SK is capitalist, and NK is communist

[lime belfry]

when Soviet just got domed and North Korea turned into a semi better version of Pol Pot cambodia

[frigid karma]

despite both being ruled by despots

eventually SK won out, and NK is still, well

NK

of course, China is more than content with the current system and has no plans on changing NK

[thorny patio]

If south Korea distanced itself from the US, maybe china could become something of an effective mediator... At least they'd be able to do SOMETHING

Not saying I'd want that

[lime belfry]

I actually have a never seen album of North Korea in the 80s

[frigid karma]

mediator for what

[shut wren]

Unless Kim jong Does some stupid shit that XI didn't like

[frigid karma]

[lime belfry]

taken by a Vietnamese photographer

it looks quite good for the time

[frigid karma]

Any posturing Kim does is purely bullshit

[shut wren]

Peaceful Unification??

[frigid karma]

NK relies on china for everything

[shut wren]

Most of everything

90% imports are china

the rest are kim jong's cheese

[thorny patio]

Well north Korea doesn't trust the south because of it's close ties to the US

[frigid karma]

xi snaps his fingers and kim has to roll on the floor and play dead

and china doesn't want a unified korea lmao

[lime belfry]

no one does

even the US

or the South Korean

[frigid karma]

under the current system 'reunification' is stupid

[lime belfry]

see, you either be the pacifist and break down a wall to unify

[shut wren]

One has to go

[lime belfry]

or u just stomp the other side and re unify

your call

[thorny patio]

Pretty much, the NK economy or lack thereof would tank the SK economy

If the unified

[frigid karma]

i mean also

they are de facto two entirely separate countries now

sure they speak the same language, but one has been worshipping a communist dictator for several decades

[thorny patio]

Well... One countries culture is HIGHLY Sterilized albeit

[frigid karma]

no one wants, say, the US and UK to 'reunify'

why should NK and SK do so

[lime belfry]

gotta respect HCM for his will to go through with re unifying Vietnam

[frigid karma]

it would help out the NK peasant massively, sure, but also not feasible for kim

[lime belfry]

imagine if we are still 2 countries

[frigid karma]

or china

or sk

or usa

or, well, you get the point

[thorny patio]

Well kim doesn't really think in terms of whats right for his people now does he?

[frigid karma]

no fucking shit

[shut wren]

Kim never gave a fuck

[frigid karma]

but, we're not here to be idealist

[thorny patio]

Maybe his grandad, but the rest of the men were just awful

I say maybe

[shut wren]

both mfs dropped dead cuz of heart attack IIRC

[lime belfry]

if u think about it

[thorny patio]

I have no idea what il-sungs plans were

[lime belfry]

Korean didnt get much of a choice in the 60s

they can choose a brutal dictator who didnt give a shit about them

[thorny patio]

But id imagine he saw himself as akin to lenin

[lime belfry]

or a dictator who also didnt give a shit about them

[thorn trail]

isn't Germany still somewhat paying for the German reunification? And economic wise the difference between East and West Germany is smaller than the one between both Koreas

[lime belfry]

and that guy also happened to be an IJA officer no less

so you even got less chance to choose

[thorny patio]

Wanting to improve shit but because of wars just not in a position to do shit

[shut wren]

Dictators 101

[thorny patio]

Then his son and grandson just decided to make the whole country their personal fiefdom

[shut wren]

You dont want your People to suffer too much,They will rise up

You also dont want your people to Be too happy,They will overthrow you

[thorny patio]

Lol, gorby didn't get that memo

[lime belfry]

should have won the war if you dont want that to happen

"skill issue", as one would say

[shut wren]

Which side?

[lime belfry]

both

[shut wren]

the NK side it was more of Tech issues

[thorny patio]

He made his people real happy and then they rewarded him with a call for democracy

[shut wren]

and Supply issue

[thorny patio]

Of course, the Koreans we're fucked cus Stalin was still alive

[lime belfry]

Korea civil war is a weird war in term of media coverage

[thorny patio]

And Stalin likes his puppets

[lime belfry]

the US lost Vietnam but still got a tons of video game and movie covering it

meanwhile, Korea war was like "What ?"

they didnt lose or win that war

[thorny patio]

It's called America's forgotten war for a reason

[shut wren]

the US didn't Lose,and Didn't even win

[lime belfry]

so why not cover it

[manic latch]

Isn't that was the point of Korea war. Soviet vs US puppets

[lime belfry]

it's a square

[shut wren]

it was more China vs Us puppet

[thorny patio]

^^

[lime belfry]

it an interesting war imo

only China made a movie about it

and it was kind of epic

[shut wren]

Soviets didn't do shit

[thorny patio]

It is, which is why I'm recent years it's gotten more coverage

[shut wren]

SK is still recovering PVA remains today

[thorny patio]

Well, Stalins support for China pretty much gave them the push to intervene

[lime belfry]

it a super important war to China

[shut wren]

well uh if NK lost the US would be bombing manchuria

[lime belfry]

because it marked the beginning of their rise to superpower

[shut wren]

ALL the heavy factories were there

[thorny patio]

BRUH

[lime belfry]

they were then capable of intervening in war and changed the outcome

[thorny patio]

Oh you mean china