history

[lime belfry]

it happens

speaking of which, Bearn also has an unique aircraft

[ivory ridge]

but

she isnt supposed to have 2 barrages

it's a different skill

[spring briar]

screenshot pls

[lime belfry]

yeah on it

u can actually see it on her art too

it some sort of green camo paint plane

her barrage will also spawn the same thing

which isnt in the game because the french right now have 2 stripe camo plane and 2 white plane

none is green

[spring briar]

that's a Vought V-156F

[lime belfry]

hmmm

[ivory ridge]

technically im missing one but Napoli B was a bit too much for my wallet

for the same price of Napoli B i got 15 premiums from the santa boxes

[spring briar]

this plane

Béarn had these

[ivory ridge]

Bean

[spring briar]

in terms of unreleased planes bearn could get

Loire Nieupoint 40

Potez 56E

[lime belfry]

actually hard to screenshot lol

[spring briar]

Lioré et Olivier Léo 30

autogyro in AL pls

[lime belfry]

we should check every single carrier barrage to find hidden gear lol

[frigid karma]

Shoudlnt be too many

[spring briar]

blursed

[ivory ridge]

I can probably guess one without even checking

Shinano recon plane

the one that increases damage

actually

are we sure that

the first sprite that was posted

the plane with the radar

isnt york 2 first skill?

[lime belfry]

nah york 2 first skill spawn a skyraider

i checked

[frigid karma]

Recon skyraider, might have different sprite

[spring briar]

for Joffre/Painlevé we could get

CAO600

[lime belfry]

no same sprite

[frigid karma]

Also check her interceptive barrages

Whenever an Essex or yorktown launches yt2 provides them with an aa only barrage

Check those

[spring briar]

Or Dewoitine D.750

so ugly

[frigid karma]

It’s probably just some hellcats but sorth a check

[frigid karma]

That looks like two planes mating

Ngl

[lime belfry]

yes I got the bearn sprite

[frigid karma]

Disgusting

[lime belfry]

that the green one

[spring briar]

cope

[lime belfry]

u said it Vought something ?

[frigid karma]

156

[spring briar]

vought V-156F

[frigid karma]

Alright nam

[lime belfry]

does look like it

[frigid karma]

Start looking

[lime belfry]

nice so Vought confirmed

what the stats ?

[ivory ridge]

yeah ok

[spring briar]

F6F

gtfo

[lime belfry]

kay

[frigid karma]

Hellcat, called it

[junior trench]

.

[ivory ridge]

launches a recon squadron consisting of AD-1 Skyraiders,

that's not a squadron

and that's not a skyraider

[lime belfry]

devs pls fix

[frigid karma]

Lemme check the CN

[spring briar]

manjuu pls

LN40

pls

[frigid karma]

Ah fuck

Wiki doesn’t have Chinese names

Off to bilibili I go

[lime belfry]

fuck I need to check the german carrier

Graf zeppelin spawns nothing

even with aug

[spring briar]

[lime belfry]

so that check out

[spring briar]

expected

no planes to launch

very accurate

what was your first carrier

[frigid karma]

lmao yep

CN uses skyraider for the skill name too

*description

https://tenor.com/view/what-the-fuck-wtf-what-huh-shocked-gif-17215720

seems weird to be using a full ass bomber as recon anyways

[lime belfry]

petter strasser spawns stuka TD, already in game

that checked out

moving on to elbe

[spring briar]

inb4

[lime belfry]

ok... so August seems to have a hidden plane

[ivory ridge]

one of these planes is the intercepting barrage

[lime belfry]

a bit too fast for me to see

[frigid karma]

have the launching CV with no planes

[spring briar]

is it too late for me to ask?

[frigid karma]

that should lower the plane count a bit

[ivory ridge]

it's essex with just a fighter

[frigid karma]

that complicates things

[ivory ridge]

it's cuz essex herself has a barrage

[alpine onyx]

I see Colgate-chan

[spring briar]

[lime belfry]

huh

[frigid karma]

then use enterprise

[lime belfry]

seem like August got some kinda of green camo fighter or some crap

[frigid karma]

she has no barrage

[spring briar]

manjuu pls

[spring briar]

?

[lime belfry]

no not that one

[ivory ridge]

i just remembered

an empty slot just spawns

ghost planes

[frigid karma]

oh, fuck, right

[spring briar]

[ivory ridge]

so you cant have less planes

[frigid karma]

alright here's what you do

fill her slots with ijn or non-usn planes

[lime belfry]

use different faction plane

[frigid karma]

the interceptive barrage should be usn only so they'll be easy to spot

and run a CV without any barrages of her own, like enty

[lime belfry]

oh wait it is the plane, it just looks weird with other blocking it

so August has 0 new plane

[spring briar]

@alpine onyx with all due respect but it just hit me how weird it is that Sarcasticat is making this massive extensive "what could have been" list for the km but then you realize they didn't even get planes on their only carrier

[frigid karma]

we're getting a new plane, type-wu seaplane

wu means five in chinese

but searching type 5 yields nothing

[alpine onyx]

Isn't it more a collection of designs, that on their own could've been built

[lime belfry]

i got your back bro

[frigid karma]

it's probably something on ting an

i should refer back to that link

[lime belfry]

Type Wu recon planes

4 built total

[spring briar]

it's a bunch of design studies
most of which are just dead ends no?

[frigid karma]

danke

where is this from?

[lime belfry]

here

[alpine onyx]

Didn't really check it in great detail

[lime belfry]

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aircraft-made-in-china-1909-1949.39576/

handy

[spring briar]

it's like being a machinist
you get 10 design ideas but only are left with one that is feasible in the end

[frigid karma]

im surprised

[lime belfry]

Elbe and Wesser spawns no new plane, just good old Stuka

[frigid karma]

they didn't add the fba-17

since those are huajia's planes

[spring briar]

perhaps I'm just not used to sarcasticat's vigor when it comes to this

[spring briar]

FBA stands for french banana

[frigid karma]

no

french basketball association

[spring briar]

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/wiki/FBA_19#Type_3-0

[alpine onyx]

Yeah, you do usually discard the designs that are considered worse

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

But at least those are designs, and not just lists of requirements

At least, I hope

[spring briar]

I think it just irks me the wrong way that cat assumes they would've been built exactly to spec

[frigid karma]

yeah, that's fba 19

but huajia has the fba 17

[spring briar]

most of those designs would have never been showed to naval high command

think H-42 tier designs

[alpine onyx]

Yeah

[spring briar]

KW45

or whatever it's called

[frigid karma]

China
China

[alpine onyx]

But I usually just discard thoughts about them

[frigid karma]

just china

[alpine onyx]

Or give some dismissive comment

[spring briar]

I think it's interesting to look at those designs to see what they were thinking

but it wouldn't be right to see them all as possibilities that would've been built to spec

[alpine onyx]

And instead focus on ships that'd be at least reasonable to build

[spring briar]

yea

[alpine onyx]

Like 35cm Schlachtschiff F

[spring briar]

that's fine ye

[alpine onyx]

I like

[spring briar]

maybe I'm just jealous that french archives aren't easily accessible for me to do such an extended tree

[alpine onyx]

Sarc also has the advantage that there's a community large and willing enough to feed him such data

[spring briar]

and he can go to the US archive which has all those plans

on hand

[alpine onyx]

Like give me a German warship construction paper and you'll get the meaty parts transcribed an hour later

[spring briar]

they actually have De Grasse machinery plans there
I saw it on the website

sadly not digitized ofc

banan

[alpine onyx]

Finding detailed texts and protocolls on French warship construction is a pain

And then most people will need to find a translator

[spring briar]

still haven't found the turning circles

yeah, from my experience
knowing french has helped a lot

especially in finding details

[junior trench]

you're giving me flashbacks to someone trying to tell me religiously that rejected USN cruiser design studies truly show what the USN wanted in their cruisers

[spring briar]

kek

[alpine onyx]

Ideally one that doesn't charge 0.05c per word read

[junior trench]

like

my man

[spring briar]

I would do research for free

[junior trench]

they were rejected

[spring briar]

most designs sarc is looking into weren't seen by most of the german navy

[alpine onyx]

I had an Argentian BP that I wanted translated

Would've cost me 40 bucks

[spring briar]

bruhw

just learn spanish

[lime belfry]

what the newest CV that u can think

from the top of your head ?

[spring briar]

Gerald r ford

[manic latch]

Type 003

[alpine onyx]

It would be cheaper to just throw every word into deepl by hand

[spring briar]

search results for "battleship richelieu": 10000
search results for "cuirassé richelieu": 100 but they are immensely extensive photo galleries + archive stuff

[shut wren]

Boutta say that

[frigid karma]

gee the french take deeper notes on their own capital vessels than the anglos

[alpine onyx]

And then that Richelieu bp can't be read

[frigid karma]

who knew

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

sadly

there are crisp copies in some archive

lorient maybe idk

[thorn trail]

what's a "cuirassé"?

[spring briar]

french word for battleship

[alpine onyx]

How about deal, you find and digitize them in high res, I'll make the citadel and workshop math for you

[thorn trail]

Ah

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

but I can do that math

[alpine onyx]

But that way I can pretend that I am helping

[spring briar]

I'd love to have a 3D model of rich

with all the correct rooms and such

[alpine onyx]

Walkable like that Yamato VR game?

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

yea

that would be neat

[alpine onyx]

I got used to imagining it from reading deck plans

[frigid karma]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AzureLane/comments/mbvhwu/my_richelieu_model_is_almost_ready_for_3d_printing/

from 2 years ago

[alpine onyx]

Love imagining 3d objects and moving them around in my smol bren

[frigid karma]

last time his reddit had any activity was..5 months ago, not likely he's still active

[spring briar]

speaking of french designs
I found out that the MN wanted to modernize Redoutable with 3x1 340mm mle 1887 guns
ofc it was rejected for cost concerns

[frigid karma]

but i don't think there's any official 3d models of richy from AL

[spring briar]

nope

but there is one for JB

and it is pretty good

[frigid karma]

yep

new emote, neat

[spring briar]

It would be nice if we finally got the ships that had this equipment historically

[frigid karma]

man i wonder what fucking drugs wg was on when they made marseille

[lime belfry]

ok I have checked every CV

no new aircraft except the one we discovered

[frigid karma]

good work

and yea not surprising

[spring briar]

Marseille is a scaled down version of one of the Richelieu prelim designs iirc

idk why they did it

[frigid karma]

it's just as a line it makes no sense

[lime belfry]

so a Vought, a Guardian, a Soviet mystery Td

[frigid karma]

2x4, 2x4, 3x3?

[spring briar]

it kind of makes sense
but they went with the wrong ships

[frigid karma]

i guess weegee just has a fetish for nelsons

izumo, lenin, and now marseille

nothing wrong with a nelson fetish tho

[lime belfry]

what else has sprite except planes in AL ?

[frigid karma]

oh

kirov blimp thing

[spring briar]

it should have been 1926 cruiser killer --> 25kt bc --> 37 kt bc

[lime belfry]

nah that not worth it

[frigid karma]

and shirayami fubuki the collab thing

no

[thorn trail]

the 2nd pic. Who historically had it?

[frigid karma]

3x3 ab-x is

[thorn trail]

that's a BB gun right

[frigid karma]

optimum BB design

[manic latch]

Most navies take a look on Nelson design for once

Yamato's early designs, Lenin being Project 21, NC's early designs

[spring briar]

the Normandie class battleships

[frigid karma]

no it's just

[lime belfry]

actually there JU88 sprite before no ?

[frigid karma]

weegee likes to add a lot of ships with that design

im not aware of any ju-88s

[thorn trail]

Why did the french go for quads a lot

[frigid karma]

more guns per turret

= more firepower

[lime belfry]

@frigid karma old german event

[spring briar]

they launched the 5 hulls and got pretty far on them but then WW1 happened

oops

[lime belfry]

JU-88 trainwreck your ship

[ivory ridge]

the first 2 are real designs

[frigid karma]

ah

man it's been a while since we've had fun events

[lime belfry]

it actually spawns on the map

[ivory ridge]

whoops didnt reply

[frigid karma]

it would be neat if we had an event where defending the base was actually hard

[lime belfry]

I mean, can a ship even summon a Ju-88 ?

it a chunky plane

[frigid karma]

rather than just an annoying loading gimmick

[ivory ridge]

first 2 are real designs

[frigid karma]

i know they're real designs

im just saying, weegee loves to add a lot of nelsols

[spring briar]

to not lose firepower even though they were only limited to pretty small hulls due to limited dockyard size

[ivory ridge]

green bottom, clearly italian, i will steal it

[frigid karma]

they should've given collingwood 457s

kappa

[spring briar]

ah yes
Lyon't

[manic latch]

Supersuperfiring 🦅

[lime belfry]

should we expect guided bomb when they introduce Roma into AL ?

[manic latch]

We have Roma

[spring briar]

ah you mean the french guided bomb

[frigid karma]

yeah well

6x381 at tier 7 is mid

especially on a hull like nelson's

[thorn trail]

I find it funny that the French had small dockyards in the past when they built one of the largest oil tankers later on

[frigid karma]

she need the conq guns to work, and even then she's meh

[manic latch]

Holy fuck I forgot It had TRIPLE 5/38s

[spring briar]

@thorn trail I can give you an article on the normandies if you want?

[thorn trail]

Sure. I don't know much about French BBs

[frigid karma]

we don't talk about triple secondaries

or god forbid

nakhimov's smolensk turrets

[manic latch]

British did the triple 4in

[manic latch]

And Ushakov

[manic latch]

HOW MANY PAGES

[spring briar]

ok that's all

[manic latch]

Turns out it's not a good DP when it can barely turn and loading crew is keep getting stuck between each other while reloading

[ivory ridge]

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/wiki/Roma

[spring briar]

This is so close to being completed it's sad

[manic latch]

Fuck true it wasn't a DP. Fisher hated 152mm so wanted to keep 4 in

So more barrels was the solution

[spring briar]

DP
krem what are you smoking

[manic latch]

Mb I reminded of 5/38 triple

[spring briar]

this is the first DP gun

[manic latch]

Quad 130mm

[spring briar]

130

haiyaaa

[manic latch]

Fuuuck

[spring briar]

it's the one on dunkeke

[manic latch]

Problematic one ye

[spring briar]

1932

but ye it had issues

too slow to train and fire mostly

[manic latch]

[frigid karma]

Does anyone have statistics on just how many of yt2’s original crew were on the og yorktown?

[manic latch]

Ye

[spring briar]

go check crew registers

[frigid karma]

I’ve heard statements thrown around about how a lot of the survivors went onto the successor but I’m not sure about the validity of those claims

[frigid karma]

thanks for all the help

I am gonna need an excel for this

And a lot of crack

[spring briar]

qwerty do you have a job

[frigid karma]

No

I definitely don’t have the time for this

But

Eh, it’s about 3000 men right

Assuming each guy takes two seconds on average to write down

[spring briar]

https://www.hullnumber.com/CV

[frigid karma]

About 2 hours of nonstop writing

[spring briar]

copy paste crew names

sort them in excel

[frigid karma]

Oh neat

[spring briar]

then just check if any match with the search function lol

[frigid karma]

It’s already formatted?

Fantastic

I thought I was gonna have to pore over PDFs

And type a list of crew names written by hand

[spring briar]

hmmmm I don't think these crew lists are complete sadly

https://www.hullnumber.com/crew1.php?cm=CV-5

https://www.hullnumber.com/crew1.php?cm=CV-10

[manic latch]

Now I like these

[spring briar]

the one on yorktown 2 looks much more complete

wtf why am i saying yt2 and not CV-10

[manic latch]

Youtube 2

[frigid karma]

Uhh

Richie

You realize this list is just a list of crew members who went on the site and added their name to it right

[spring briar]

don't tell me

[frigid karma]

HullNumber.com's mission is to provide a means for shipmates to keep in touch with one another.

Registration and communicating with shipmates at Hullnumber.com is FREE FOREVER.

Yeah I don’t think

I don’t think yorktown was crewed by like 200 guys

[spring briar]

yes

I thought it was just the incomplete crew list

well

there are still crew lists somewhere

good luck

[frigid karma]

Yeah, finding complete crew lists is

[thorn trail]

Wait question: The fastest BB ever built were the Iowas right?

[frigid karma]

Gonna be a pain in the ass

[frigid karma]

Yep

[thorn trail]

What was the fastest BB designed but not built?

[ivory ridge]

how real do you want the design to be

[frigid karma]

I can draw up a bb doing 5000 knots with a 6.7 quintillion horsepower engine

[manic latch]

Hmmm Kaneda at 40 knots?

[frigid karma]

Doesn’t mean it’ll do that

[thorn trail]

by feasible I mean a design that was thought of and could actually be built in shipyards of that time

[manic latch]

Should look at 35 knot designs

[spring briar]

USS GEORGIA AT 40 KNOTS

[ivory ridge]

Your mother at 69 knots

[frigid karma]

The hell is that hpt then

[frigid karma]

42,9

Btw

[spring briar]

stop

it wasn't funny when I said it

[thorn trail]

@spring briar It says in the article you sent about the Markgrafs. Is this an error because all I can search is that the only German dreadnought with 5 ships in the class is Kaiser class

[manic latch]

Now this girl is known as fast cruiser killer and had 35,5 knot speed in C variant (3 turrets instead 4)

[thorn trail]

And the SMS Markgraf is a Konig class

I'm confused

[spring briar]

Markgrafs

lol

Konigs yes

[manic latch]

406/50 has armor that can resist only to 8 in tho

Perhaps

[ivory ridge]

something something 40 knots

[spring briar]

ok I found some wacky Normandie modernization plans

Normandie at 24 knots with 120mm deck and 2 triple torp launchers above water

[manic latch]

You also have this one. Designed to counter Lexington class

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

34.5 knot

[spring briar]

and twin 406's

[frigid karma]

120mm deck?

When is this

[spring briar]

1919-1920

[frigid karma]

Spicy, spicy indeed

[spring briar]

and also possibly lengthening them by 15m to increase speed to 26 knots

pretty spicy indeed

would've been a considerable upgrade

even 30m lengthening was considered

I'll have to draw these out one day

[manic latch]

Reminds that stupid Lion with gigantic hull to reach 33 knot speed

[spring briar]

Manjub pls Normandie

battleship X?

[manic latch]

There is also this one that....got bigger because they wanted it to have smaller machinery but still want to keep a 29 knot speed

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

That stern can have a mansion

[spring briar]

ngl

looks like Vladivostok (type A battleship for the real G's)

[manic latch]

The designers at DNC attributed the enormous size of the ship to better underwater side protection against 1200lb / 545kb TNT, and defence against the Uncle Tom sized rocket weapons (1060lb / 480kg and 11,5in / 298mm rocket) higher cruising speed of 20knots (rather 10knots of prewar standard), greater endurance for this increased speed, greater freeboard and a wide range of detailed additions

[spring briar]

type A battleship

[manic latch]

Yay

[spring briar]

there she is

NOW GIB CLEM

[thorn trail]

are those 16in guns

[spring briar]

yes

no

[manic latch]

Yep

[spring briar]

wait

aren't they 16.5

[manic latch]

Huh

[spring briar]

jk jk

wows joke

[manic latch]

Battleship B has the 356mms

[spring briar]

Poltava?

[manic latch]

Which later turn to 305mm Kronk

[manic latch]

Yosh

[spring briar]

yep

[manic latch]

Based

[frigid karma]

Any news on zumwalt and her 155 meme thing

There was a big news cycle about it a few months ago

[manic latch]

She will be refit with missiles no? Her guns are dead end

[frigid karma]

But it’s been quiet for a while, are they just waiting for fy2024 and the missiles?

[thorn trail]

aren't they planning to remove her 155mm gun mounts for hypersonic missile mounts instead?

[frigid karma]

Ok, so no new stuff

[manic latch]

https://news.usni.org/2023/01/09/navy-awards-hii-planning-contract-for-zumwalt-hypersonic-upgrades

Last new

[thorn trail]

I want to see a ship that looks like the Red Alert 2 Dreadnought

With those massive ass missiles

[manic latch]

VLS killed that concept

Now missiles are inside of ships mostly

[thorn trail]

booo

[manic latch]

Best I can offer from old times

[thorn trail]

[shrewd pecan]

Optimal

[spring briar]

@manic latch

https://tenor.com/view/ineedit-needit-spongebob-squarepants-need-it-gif-4883495

[manic latch]

Based

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1065003371876073514/ktop0xmwlyu51.png

La Creatura

Ferrari F333 Lizard

armed with a recoilless rifle

[spiral cedar]

@alpine onyx Do you know the process by which the Scharnhorst-class transferred 28cm shells from A to C turret?

0755hrs:
Pause in battle. Gunnery has instruction: Transport AP shells from ‘A’ to ‘C’ turret.```
e.g. was it transferred through the citadel, above the main armor deck, above the weather deck?

This is the action against Renown btw

[eternal veldt]

Reminder that Choukai's rigging is inaccurate.

Same for Maya.

Also, hipper pic for Sirene, not sure if he has it yet

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLR4KvHBzFI

[maiden citrus]

THUNDERBOLT

[eternal veldt]

Speaking of that, I find it funny that Szymanski would put those mounts on Montana

... When the standards removed them in 1945 in lieu of twin oerlikons.

[maiden citrus]

montanas need more powuh

[eternal veldt]

Just dont bother with thunderbolt at all

Slap the 3"/50 RF

[maiden citrus]

ohiogozaimus

but yeah true, think the dates lined up poorly and they would've received 3''/50s in construction

[eternal veldt]

I dont remember much about that video other than that

There's talk about deleting the conning tower IIRC, and uh... Combining the superstructure ala Fargo/Oregon City

Neither of which I suspect will go through

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1615517073844719619

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1950, USS Missouri ran aground on a shoal in the Chesapeake Bay. The battleship remained stuck for two weeks until a fleet of 23 tugs and salvage vessels finally managed to free it. @usairforce pilots joked that they tried to help by flying over and dropping oars.

Twitter · Jan 18, 2023, 1:10 AM

[frigid karma]

Bf2042 squads

[spiral cedar]

Bf1982

[tough quail]

das future science

[remote monolith]

alright question that popped out of my head, should Hirohito be removed from power post-war and the Emperorship tampered in any way, what ramifications would it entail for Allied administration in Japan?

[frigid karma]

well, that would depend on how well the japanese people would take it

and it's really hard to say, i mean, they did just watch their emperor get humiliated into a clearly-not-god status

but, there's also a reason the US really didn't want to get rid of him

[tough quail]

probably a lot of loss for not really much gain

we've seen post-war japan do just fine with the emperor in tact

[frigid karma]

The emperor was already a de facto puppet anyways

and so getting rid of him wouldn't really do much

[remote monolith]

would it angers the Japanese immensely if the Emperor is tampered with? We see that even today Japanese people rarely, if ever, joke about the Emperor even in medias that normally made fun of Japanese society

[tough quail]

a lot of their culture is getting manhandled as is and the occupation wasnt exactly

pleasant

you risk a straw breaking the camels back situation

[frigid karma]

But is it enough to mandate a full on armed rebellion

Especially in the wrecked state that is postwar Japan

[remote monolith]

that's what I'm wondering yeah, cause the Emperor is basically the Roman Catholic Church in importance, but is it enought to piss Japanese enough for them to totally reject the occupation and keep fighting

[tough quail]

its probably enough to convince a solidly large group to start fighting

maybe a few hundred to a few thousand

which i dont see as worth it

[frigid karma]

With what

[tough quail]

whatever they can grab

its not going to be effective

but its a bunch of people that dont need to die imo

because leaving hima rund didn't really lead to any huge incidents post war

[remote monolith]

do you think it can snowball later on? Like, a coupe thousand angry people at the abolishment of the Emperor, a couple people die, more people were galvanized, it then spreads even more?

[thorn trail]

That's possible. Remember the end of the Shogunate was also bloody so removing the Emperor would probably escalate hard

[frigid karma]

who knows, man?

that's too speculative for me or probably anyone

[tough quail]

yeah

im of the stance that it's Good Enough™️ and fucking with it more probably just kills more people

[frigid karma]

@tough quail GPH is now claiming FDG>NJ at bossing

i can't

i can't even

[tough quail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/169946730173825024/1064389228458418176/well_fuck.gif

[fierce sparrow]

what the hell is that

oh right... I see Stealth AMX30

[ivory ridge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/10eyp6b/oh_you_thought_it_was_over_13_weapon_system/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[frigid karma]

Oh my fucking god

Forget tiktok

anyone who plays WT in the US military or anywhere high up need to be put on al ist

[remote monolith]

this iw the F-16 incident right

the recent one? Or is there yet another one

[ivory ridge]

No

It's new

Ironically the post is from the guy of the f-16 incident

[remote monolith]

WHAT

[frigid karma]

this man is going to guantanamo bay lmao

[fierce sparrow]

goddamnit WT... stop giving us the classified docs again

[subtle prawn]

I really thought that people would learn after at least 4 separate incidents, I guess not

[remote monolith]

at this rate War Thunder will unironically be classified as a foreign espionage agency by literally every country on earth

[frigid karma]

At the Navy's decades-old tactical air combat training center commonly known as TOPGUN, there are fines for various infractions. Any quote from the iconic 1986 film "Top Gun" starring Tom Cruise as the hotshot naval aviator Lt. Pete "Maverick" Mitchell will cost you $5, former fighter pilot and TOPGUN instructor Cmdr. Guy "Bus" Snodgrass reveals in his book, "TOPGUN's Top 10: Leadership Lessons from the Cockpit."

[frigid karma]

like

again, the source of the problem is the dumbass with acccess to classified shit

but it's exacerbated by wt

[eternal veldt]

The snail keeps the documents, smh

[frigid karma]

act one step ahead

start leaking fake shit

[lime belfry]

People when they realize leaking stats dont necessarily mean the enemy could fully exploit it

[frigid karma]

have a 'passionate' war thunder player 'accidentally' leak a bunch of 'classified' abrams stats onto the forums

[alpine onyx]

There'd be no way to move shells between magazines without leaving the citadel, as the transverse bulkheads allowed only for piping and cables to pass through (which I guess is what you want for below waterline?). Similar story for the in-between deck, which is also integrated into the watertight subdivision system, just to a lesser degree.
The battery deck (so right underneath the weather deck) had an ammunition tray that ran between all barbettes, accessing the magazines through hatches in the deck, so I would assume they used that to move the shells around.
Weather deck might also be possible if you decide to hurl the 330kg rounds by hand, but, ehh

[lime belfry]

Stats matter until actual combat happens and then suddenly stats dont matter much

[frigid karma]

well they still very much do

[lime belfry]

It like in the Vietnam war where the US assumed based on stats their B-52 would be untouchable by SAM

But then in actual combat they had to lower attitude due to fog to bomb the target

[spiral cedar]

Any photos? And was powder also moved that way, or shells only?

[lime belfry]

Which make them vulnerable to even AAA

[spiral cedar]

And thanks

[lime belfry]

So... I dont know why WT players care that much about real life stats to their game stats

Like... it a game, if u want 100% on point stats just go to a warzone

[alpine onyx]

Behold, my paint skills

no photos unfortunately, but should work for powder too

at least it should be easy to get the powder there

because for a shell to get to that tray, it has to go through the powder mags

[lime belfry]

The scheme really make it looks like a park woth trees and large fountain

[frigid karma]

didn't you just say stats don't matter as much in a warzone?

and anyways, what i think you mean is hard stats are overappreciated due to video games, while soft stats are not

things like armor, rate of fire or gun size are focused on over crew comfort, cost, maintainability, etc

[lime belfry]

Yeah that what I mean

People really have to risk getting arrested just because their country rocket/shell doesnt pen 10mm more than it should be

Or the tank doesnt go 1 extra mile faster

[alpine onyx]

Early war German tanks being only effective against infantry, but blessed be the radio

[lime belfry]

Meanwhile irl tank breaks down if it goes too fast over long time

[alpine onyx]

Makes smol Pz II precious

[frigid karma]

so

2x Challenger 2 leaks

1x Leclerc leak

1x Eurocopter leak

2x Chinese leaks

1x F16 leak

1 × F-18e leak

F-16 leak is a bit overrated, but still

it's even funnier, the 8th time!

[eternal veldt]

Meanwhile:

Sirene and cat furious struggling to get 320mm belt on shiny horse

[spiral cedar]

The truth is its own reward

Which is why the Brooklyns shouldn't have light armor in AL

Or was it Wichita

Probably both

[frigid karma]

wichita

but cleve and brooklyn both have light armor

for some reason

[frigid karma]

also they said they knew

but just didn't care, because balance reason

not like scharn needs any more nerfs, tbh

with how hard a 43 knot georgia is going to violate her

and now, a bunch of BTD destroyers launched off a BBV

[spiral cedar]

Do you have good sources on Portland's armor layout btw Silver

[alpine onyx]

meanwhile Ägir with heavier armor than Scharnhorst

[spring briar]

Agir the only heavy armor CB

[frigid karma]

i gotchyu

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

Found new gun

[frigid karma]

de bang

[spring briar]

De bange

🥖

[eternal veldt]

I havent seen Portland's scheme available in the Ships-19 inventory sadly

So Friedman's will have to do for now

[eternal veldt]

I'm speaking for War Thunder

Which they rectified after a few back and forth

Not sure about the RHA roof though.

Nawleans isn't available either minus for the searchlight platform

And general booklet plans are useless since they dont have the # numbers

So,

[spring briar]

Gotta love deflagrations

(Mfw flame slower than speed of sound)

WW2 chemical improvements yo

[alpine onyx]

A case of "and then along came Zeus"

[spring briar]

Fritz x also known as the involuntary gallo germanic guided bomb project

[spiral cedar]

Magazine hit < STS bulkheads + stable powder + flooding

[spring briar]

Helps that the hole is so big too

Lot of places to vent pressure in this case

Not so much with Roma

Why can’t I find Russian pre WW1 shell manuals

[eternal veldt]

Roma's straight up blew up in the machinery room

Then the magazines go up

Not so much of a "hole"

[spring briar]

Much more rigid structure too

The pressure element is key in these sorts of detonations

[spiral cedar]

Pressure and heat

[spring briar]

I should look up enthalpy curves for ww2 propellants to see the temp influence

Alternatively I can construct those myself using the enthalpy of formation

[eternal veldt]

Probably too rigid

But proof of good Italian ship quality

Contrary to what an admiral often says

[spiral cedar]

Lack of immediate water + fast burn rate is probably a bigger issue

Wonder how the sprinkler/flooding system for the mags worked

Had it been triggered quickly, would there have been an interval where it could have saved the ship

Or would it have been overwhelmed by the burning before it could cool the powder enough

[lime belfry]

How on earth would you react to that fast enough

Probably the explosion alone would stun everyone that isnt turned into spaghetti for a good 1 min or 2

[spiral cedar]

There were about ten seconds between the bomb hit and the turret going airborne

[lime belfry]

Then the utter smoke and confusion gonna delay any immediate response

Let alone stuff like seeing guys shredded to pieces or burned to charcoal isnt something that gonna make you react accordingly

[spiral cedar]

I’m not saying a human would react fast enough (that’s why automatic systems were later installed). I’m wondering if, had it been triggered, it would have sufficed to save the ship

[lime belfry]

I think it also depends on how many human survived the initial explosion

It takes quite a good number of men to damage control

And run the ship back to safe place

[spiral cedar]

Generally a sprinkler system can be activated by just one dude hitting a button

I suspect flooding systems work similarly, but I know it was sometimes reported to a higher officer first before it was done, so it may have been more involved in some navies

[frigid karma]

i'm not sure if a sprinkler system is gonna work fast enough to stop an explosion

[spiral cedar]

It will

[lime belfry]

How would that work

[frigid karma]

do we have cases of this happening?

water snuffs a spark causing explosion

in theory

but i'm not sure if a sprinkler has stopped a ship's magazine from booming

[spiral cedar]

The USN did trials where they roasted the hell out of a packed magazine under a sprinkler system and it worked flawlessly (as it had in civilian powder factories across America for over a decade)

[alpine onyx]

One of Bismarck's magazines caught fire, and there was no magazine explosion reported

[lime belfry]

I dont think the Italian engineers thought about being hit by a radio guided bomb mounted on a plane when they designed Roma

[alpine onyx]

but they did have to think about the ship getting hit by some sort of bomb

[lime belfry]

Yeah but is there a plane that carry a 3500 lbs bomb in early 1930s ?

[frigid karma]

no, but

you have to account for advancing technology

[frigid karma]

good reads, danke

[alpine onyx]

The risk of magazines getting threatened by nearby fires or explosions was well understood by that point

[lime belfry]

Either the guy with the controller has god tier aim or his luck is just that high

The bomb hit too perfectly

[alpine onyx]

Luck, the Fritz X was relatively accurate, but that is compared to conventional bombs dropped from 6-10km altitude

[lime belfry]

And Fritz X is not laser accurate by any mean

[spiral cedar]

If a high explosive charge detonated inside the powder magazine itself you’re probably screwed regardless and only flooding from the attack itself can save you, but if it’s ignited by hot fragment attack from an adjacent compartment, or fire, or flash through some opening in the magazine, then stuff like powder burn rates and sprinkler systems can definitely make the difference

[alpine onyx]

in some testings they found that 6/10 of their bombs would land within 7m of the target, the other three functioning ones were within 14.5m

[lime belfry]

Pretty good

[alpine onyx]

and one was malfunctioning and went to Narnia

[lime belfry]

Considering Yamato managed to dodge alot of the medium bomber strafe

Radio guided bombs are worth it

But that is if u have the range

[spiral cedar]

And don’t have to deal with enemy fighters

[alpine onyx]

so practically speaking assuming the bomb works, you can guarantee a hit a battleship sized target, and will likely hit within the actual armored box (and not in the TDS), assuming you get to guide the bomb until it hits

[spiral cedar]

Accuracy in battle is probably lower, but that’s true of every weapon system

[alpine onyx]

yes, also those tests were at only 6000m

[lime belfry]

Better spreaf rate than BB gun

[alpine onyx]

but the system was rated for up to 10000, from which I would expect worse hit ratios

but in exchange being near immune from AA fire

[lime belfry]

Well Roma AA isnt the most impressive

But then again let say the He 111 goes against somethinf like Iowa by surprise

[spiral cedar]

No gun AA of WWII was effective at those altitudes

[lime belfry]

As in it doesnt expect that to come and drop a bomb

Then I would say it isnt like Iowa fair much better either

[spiral cedar]

That’s why the USN tried so hard to get 6” and 8” DP working with the later CL and CA designs

[alpine onyx]

the AA ceiling of the 5"/38 was 12km, so in theory can reach that high, but in practice that's a very narrow window to shoot at the plane and it's well outside effective ranges

[lime belfry]

If u want to hit the BB u still need fo get in the shooting distance anyway

Even for the B-52 which can bomb from like 16+ Km

Sometimes it has to lower to 9km

Due to fog

[alpine onyx]

if my memory is correct the bomb drop on Savannah caught the ship plus escorts by surprise, so there also is some advantage by getting spotted later than a dive bomber would be

[lime belfry]

I also argue that high attitude bomber doesnt seem to be rewarded with a lot of ship skills

Or hit

[alpine onyx]

well, because in most cases they didn't hit

[lime belfry]

If it actually works why not just B-29 every fleet

[alpine onyx]

they are fairly easy to defend against, and maneuvers make their drops fail almost every time

[spiral cedar]

Radio/radar guided weapons is why the last years of the war saw an arms race of electronic countermeasures

[lime belfry]

Spam Landcaster until you hit the tirpizt

[spiral cedar]

By late ‘44 and ‘45 many US ships had radio jammers for example

[lime belfry]

Peak British strat

If it doesnt work just spam more

It bound to hit

[alpine onyx]

Hitting a stationary target is fairly easy, with all aircraft types

[eternal veldt]

The main issue I see is that the magazine itself was technically not damaged, so yes, no flooding to save the ship whatsoever.

[spiral cedar]

Glances at 4-engine bombers missing entire cities

[eternal veldt]

When you think about it, this somewhat applies to Hood as well.

[alpine onyx]

Or the British pilots just sucked at hitting German ships while underway

[eternal veldt]

4"HA magazines blow up, bulkheads defeated

[lime belfry]

If B-25 can take off from hornet it techinically possible for it to take off from Essex

[spiral cedar]

There was a more considerable interval for Hood though

[eternal veldt]

Main mags go up, no water + awful shell /powder room arrangement

[lime belfry]

So why dont we have B-25 as a plane ?

[alpine onyx]

Since the total count of aerial attacks on larger German ships (5000t+) was... two (or three, if you count the two waves on Bisko as two separate attacks)

[spiral cedar]

Because it’s a skill

[eternal veldt]

There is a 152mm magazine right next to where the fritz X, IIRC

[alpine onyx]

While in port most of the ships got their share of bomb and torpedo hits

[eternal veldt]

And those are sitting preeeeettty close, IIRC

[lime belfry]

Ports also have a ton more AA tho

Like u gonna get into like 10 Flak batteries

[alpine onyx]

Königsberg, Köln, Hipper, Eugen, Lützow, pretty much every battleship

[eternal veldt]

tfw all 3 Littorios lost their wine store from port aerial bombing

[alpine onyx]

Just off memory

[eternal veldt]

Alcohol abuse

[lime belfry]

And squadrons of land based fighter ready to turn you into cheese

[alpine onyx]

Well, Brits had way more success attacking ships in port

[lime belfry]

So honestly, bombing when the ship is out on the sea isnt a bad idea

The british lost a lot trying to bomb tirpizt

[alpine onyx]

Their track record of hitting German ships while underway was poor

[spiral cedar]

Hard to find when it’s at sea

[eternal veldt]

Or was it 2, forgot if 1 was danaged at sea otherwise

[lime belfry]

But then it good brit managed to ground tirpizt

And turn her into a huge magnet of equipment

[spiral cedar]

1/9 by Vicky and 2/15 by Ark Royal right? For Bismarck

That’s not bad

[alpine onyx]

They couldn't hit Eugen when she had a muscle-powered rudder and was turning like a train

[lime belfry]

The germaj had to protect her and get fewer flak elsewhere

So it win for brit

[spiral cedar]

Finding them while underway, probably a bigger struggle

[eternal veldt]

Ships turn exceptionally nimbly, tbh

Unless you're a dumbfuck like Tom Phillips and Leach

[alpine onyx]

Eugen had no stern during that attack

[eternal veldt]

Giga take: Leach should have been killed at Denmark Strait

[lime belfry]

Speaking of bomber

[eternal veldt]

So someone more competent becomes PoW's captain

[lime belfry]

Why is Tenrai carrier based ?

[eternal veldt]

🧠

[lime belfry]

It a bit too big no ?

[alpine onyx]

Torpedo plane attack on Tirpitz was also quite a non-success

Despite the German admiral's best attempts to die

[eternal veldt]

Tigercats, Hornets, and AJ Savages are a thing

But, Tenrai is a mess. Dont even think a carrier version was even created.

And honestly, WG ought to be shot for even bringing her into the game in the first place

Because originally, Hakuryuu carried C6N1-Bs

Which actually made sense

Alongside a prototype Yokosuka bomber that WG coined as Wakusei, but we ignore that

[lime belfry]

At least F7F can land

How on earth tenrai gonna pull that off

The thing is a mess of development

I dont think the Japanese had the balls to try tesring if she can land and take off from the few carriers they still had by 1945

[eternal veldt]

Given enough time and resources, they can pull it off

But given Japan's situation in 1944 with fucking up supply lines and other things in mind

[lime belfry]

Also F7F best fighter in AL

[eternal veldt]

Good meme.

[eternal veldt]

Also, for this, Hood has the 4" HA mag between the main mag and point of impact

For Roma, I think the main mag is just directly next to the machinery room

So naturally much shorter interval and no massive sparks like Hood with her 4" deflagrading

[lime belfry]

Roma is super fancy for her time as a BB

[spiral cedar]

Yeh

[lime belfry]

Like a hotel

[spiral cedar]

Well, if you're an officer

[eternal veldt]

But I think photos pretty much confirm that Roma was hit there - especially with steam coming off first before yeeting her entire turret 2 into the sea

Thanks Regolo, good reporter

[lime belfry]

Kinda wonder if any guy from the turret has anything left after that

This also make me scared of naval combat

If u hit u are gone

Like gone as in nothing left

[eternal veldt]

I wont post it here because it will instantly ban me

[lime belfry]

The smallest caliber hitting u is 20mm

[eternal veldt]

Just google " USS Bunker Hill corridor kamikaze"

Enjoy your PTSD

[lime belfry]

Pfff I see Japanese crews getting shređed in half by .50 cal

And 2 dudes who suicided next to their 25mm

Cant be worse

[eternal veldt]

You sure?

[lime belfry]

Ehhh normal

Yeah normal

[eternal veldt]

Now picture that one without any light.

As happens to ships when their power gets hit.

[lime belfry]

Would be about as gory as that guy who missed his kamikaze

And had nothing left but a smiling skull

[spiral cedar]

The scary part is not dying instantly from some massive overkill like a magazine deflagrating. The scary part is being like the crew of USS Indianapolis being left in the ocean for days and slowly watching your fellows get killed by sharks at random, succumb to madness from drinking seawater, hallucinate and start stabbing each other with knives, and watch their skin fall off in sheets from saltwater permeation, while every plane above you passes by without stopping because no one bothers to look down

[lime belfry]

In a burned jumpsuit

[spring briar]

You got any info on italian propellant burnrate?

[spiral cedar]

Nope, which is what I'm curious about

Just know it had nitroglycerin

[eternal veldt]

Phoenix can probably help here.

[spring briar]

I know the powder on the littos was atleast spicy

[lime belfry]

Poor phoenix

[spring briar]

Woah so surprise

[lime belfry]

She deserved a retro

Hero of Argentina

[spiral cedar]

Retrofitted into Argentinia

[eternal veldt]

Phoenix_jz, not the ship.

[spring briar]

Yeah I’m gonna make enthalpy curves for propellants

[eternal veldt]

Or, even worse

[spring briar]

That would save us a lot of headaches in future arguments

[eternal veldt]

Wounded, then ask to clean up the proverbial "meat locker" later

Yea, your buddy Jimmy is now just mist and paste on that bulkhead there

Enjoy the stench for the remaining voyage until you get to a drydock

[spiral cedar]

I think the Indianapolis one is worse still

In Harm's Way is my recommended

[eternal veldt]

Fair enough, in terms of duration and mental condition.

Cobra also isn't nice from what I heard.

Sharks, typhoons, and a teeny tiny DE to help deal with Halsey's truly epic moment

[spiral cedar]

Drinking saltwater messes with the ion concentrations in your blood and cause your brain to malfunction

One of the survivors several days in was a medic

He saw his fellow sailors, mad after days in the Sun, drink some

Tried to stop them but couldn't

He knew they were already dead, just a matter of time

[eternal veldt]

Some Samar survivors also went into dementia if I recall.

[spiral cedar]

And had to watch them die in various ways over the course of the next few days

He had a circle of survivors with him, though many dozens more were within sight

Whenever one died he'd hold their body for last rites before taking their dog tags and letting go

Eventually he had about a hundred dog tags on his arm

But it got to be too heavy

And he eventually had to let go

After the war he had a hard time listening to or saying the Lord's Prayer because it was so tied up in his experience then

[eternal veldt]

Indianapolis is just... Overall a very awful tragedy. McVay's treatment post-war is also just straight up sad to hear.

[spiral cedar]

Every Christmas he got letters in the mail from bereaved families telling him that he killed their sons

[eternal veldt]

Then committing suicide later.

[spiral cedar]

His wife dying also didn't help

[solid mango]

Cant stop laughing at this mf

[shrewd pecan]

its a drivers training vehicle

modified panzer I meant to represent later panzers

more interesting thing about it is what's propelling it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator

basically the WW2 equivalent of these

[solid mango]

Very interested I am

[solid mango]

Now I want one of these

[shrewd pecan]

its just a panzer 1 with a fake turret and modified super structure

[solid mango]

Noted

[eternal veldt]

You want a Tankette T-34 instead?

Yes, Tankette, not tank

[solid mango]

Okay, I love disguised tanks repurposed to training vehicles now

[spring briar]

Ok so uhhhh

Does navweaps list their propellant composition by w% or vol%

My guess is w% but

Just wanna make sure

And if its mol% well

Rip

[spiral cedar]

I’m guessing weight as well

But could ask the site owner ig

[spring briar]

Navweaps if you say that nitroacetylcellulose is a mixture of nitrocellulose with a little bit of acetyl cellulose, I expect you to give me the exact ratio reeee

[alpine onyx]

truth is, there is no exact ratio

they just mix by feeling

[spring briar]

Also they give the propellant pellet shape

But not dimensions

Very cool

[alpine onyx]

it's just like cooking

you only use the recipe the first one or two times

after that, off memory and everything gets estimated

[spring briar]

I’m just going to assume full nitrocellulose

The acetyl cellulose is not flammable so it wont add to the chemistry (probably)

[alpine onyx]

could it work like a catalyst?

[spring briar]

Gonna check pubchem

One sec

It is likely a byproduct from using acetone as the cellulose solvent

Combined with the sulfuric acid to add nitro groups it forms acetic anhydrites that react with the cellulose to acetylate it

And you don’t really use catalysts in explosives

Since the reaction is already so fast

It wouldn’t help or would make it too uncontrollable

So im just gonna ignore its existence here

[alpine onyx]

rude

[spring briar]

Acetyl cellulose is basically food packaging material

It aint gonna do shit

Hell lego made its bricks from it between 1949 and 1963

It has super absorbing properties
So maybe to prevent moisture in the air from ruining the powder

Btw when it decomposes it releases acetic acid

Aka vinegar

So Italian powder might have smelled vinegary

But italian powder is also detrimental to sex hormone production hmmm

[delicate beacon]

Dont eat the forbidden pasta

[fierce sparrow]

forbidden pasta...

[manic latch]

Japanese teenagers roll the Fu-Go balloon on the factory floor

Fu-Go is the code name for a spherical-shaped bombing balloon developed in Japan for the bombing of the United States. A hydrogen-filled balloon weighing 12 kg and 10 meters in diameter carried a high-explosive fragmentation bomb weighing 15 kg and four incendiary ammunition weighing 5 kg each

[gleaming cipher]

I’m not sure where to post this- but- I got to go to Hawaii over break this December and I was able to go to Pearl Harbor!

It was both a very fun and very.. sad experience

And I was also able to take a helicopter ride while there as well

[frigid karma]

didn't know they offered heli rides

[subtle prawn]

https://old.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/10ey9ea/pr_1231_dolphin_was_a_60s_soviet_concept_for_a/

[frigid karma]

Imagine watching your whole squad get mowed down to coconut mall music

[lime belfry]

time to check if any new ship has hidden new plane

anyone has a datamine of theseus barrage ?

[spiral cedar]

Don't think this is the right channel for that

[lime belfry]

no new plane

damn

[eternal veldt]

[shrewd pecan]

[ivory ridge]

did

did they really need that specification