history

[eternal veldt]

Regrettably not a lot of new information compared to my kindle jp library

[maiden citrus]

the age of beauty

[eternal veldt]

That said, it did come with a very nice booklet of general plan of

[spring briar]

Nice

So does my book

Not very in detail plans

But still nice

[eternal veldt]

Right, time to sleep after that clown show that is Stille's book

Good lols for the night at least

[manic latch]

Iowa with dead turret

3 days after the explosion

[spring briar]

Typical that you have a picture of that

[manic latch]

Hey its harder to find than average Iowa ones

Kinda

[delicate beacon]

Kremlin is a Soviet KGB agent

Explains why he got the CIA reports

[maiden citrus]

can confirm, a man dressed in red stole snacks from me two days ago

it must've been the KGB

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

Your hot dogs?

[maiden citrus]

cookies and milk this time

[spring briar]

I will cherish this picture for ever

[maiden citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/gears-gif-21214028

opening fire

[spring briar]

Tfw British 17pdr shell caps are the same shape as those on their BB AP shells

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/853668388824023050/1021507170002550926/unknown.png

Look at it

[manic latch]

F6F-3 carrier-based fighter crash landing on USS Enterprise

[spring briar]

Krem

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

Do you have a thing for catastrophe related to american stuff

[manic latch]

Fine I will share positive things

Prayers on South Dakota

Soviet and American sailors celebrate the surrender of Japan

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Issuing a salary on the flight deck of the USS Independence

Torpedo bomber Type 97 "Kate" sits on the deck of the aircraft carrier "Shoukaku"

[manic latch]

The crew of the USS Lexington celebrate Christmas 1944.
In the decoration of the cabin improvised materials were used.

[manic latch]

F

[ivory ridge]

What are you Fing for

[manic latch]

France

Paris makes a tower of Sauron

[maiden citrus]

can't believe santa found the time to visit all the usn ships, he truly is amazing

[spring briar]

Paris boner

Do you have a map like this for Belgium?

Should be hilarious

[ivory ridge]

I have 2 european ones

[spring briar]

Its a smiley

@delicate beacon

Groningen empty

[ivory ridge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/zu8bwt/-/j1ht8os

[delicate beacon]

Proof that Drenthe doesnt exist

[ivory ridge]

Here are 2 with the whole of europe

[delicate beacon]

I like that I live in a valley

[delicate beacon]

Maas spotted

[spring briar]

Mountains begone

[spring briar]

Goed

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

Italy’s population density is like

The sea wall

[ivory ridge]

We're gonna build a wall and make the fish pay

[kindred reef]

im surprised italy has so many people in the southern region

[spring briar]

You thought it was a desert or smth?

[delicate beacon]

Cranky old people needed some place to retire

[ivory ridge]

Yes

[spring briar]

Sicily doesn’t exist

[kindred reef]

i have heard that italy has a more agricultural southern region and that the northern part is more business idk if is real

[spring briar]

Puglia is ocean

Italian agriculture is in the north

The south has

Olive trees

[kindred reef]

ok

[spring briar]

Puglia has more olive trees than Greece

Maybe

Don’t quote me

[manic latch]

If it's in pizza then it's also in Italy

[kindred reef]

did italy really elect a facist or has the american news been lying to me?

[spring briar]

@ivory ridge

[manic latch]

GBK no modern politics

[kindred reef]

oh

[maiden citrus]

how many pugs live in puglia is the real question

[kindred reef]

9

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

MP handfeeding Pizza to you

[frigid karma]

I thought that was a pokeball at first

[manic latch]

Spon is gone

[kindred reef]

"We do quite a considerable amount of mental trickery and mockery of those who are unfortunate enough to fall victim to our clever little trap of social teasing"

[subtle prawn]

Dunkerque returning to Brest following the Naval Review of May 1937. The quarterdeck is dominated by the aircraft facilities. Two of the after 130mm quads are abeam the hangar with the third above it. (P du Cheyron collection)

[spring briar]

[kindred reef]

the shape of dunkirk's hull reminds me of an improved admiral hipper hull

[spring briar]

Wha?

[kindred reef]

here on this hipper class, you can see the hill curving back outwards near the waterline, where as the Dunkirk does not seem to have this

[spring briar]

How are their hulls similar

[kindred reef]

the shape of the stern and the sides seem kinda similar

[spring briar]

[kindred reef]

similar, except for the hippers silly thing at the waterline

[kindred reef]

ok ive always wondered why some ships fly the flag at the front

[manic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/why-isnt-it-posssible-its-just-not-american-psycho-gif-26353597

[kindred reef]

also why is there a russian ship with a messed up looking union jack on the front?

[shrewd pecan]

its the Russian naval jack

[kindred reef]

i thought that was the reverse scotland flag

[shrewd pecan]

my apologizes its t he jack

[kindred reef]

whats the difference?

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_(flag)

[kindred reef]

ok but why do russias naval flags look like reskins of uk flags?

[shrewd pecan]

it dates back to Peter I

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensign_of_the_Russian_Navy

but essentially

its St Andrew's Cross

[manic latch]

Yeah Soviets removed it after revolution

Tho it came back after collapse

I honestly preferred Soviet one

Was more unique and cute

Cross flags are boring

Except British. They do have good coloring

[ivory ridge]

war in the balkans war in the balkans

[manic latch]

Which one

[rapid junco]

@chilly flower
My grandfather side by side with the T33 that is currently exposed in the Central square of Dumont

[manic latch]

I liked last one

[shrewd pecan]

https://twitter.com/vodk_anon/status/1606846009312690179?s=20

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnNpUk-6VGo

[eternal veldt]

When a ship is underway, you "break" the flag over the main gaff, i. e. On the main mast or other lines near that region

When a ship is at port, you hoist the colours on the "Jackstaff", usually located on the bow or stern of the ship.

[warm brook]

i thought their developing a plane to replace the f22

[shrewd pecan]

they are

that ads over 20 years old

[warm brook]

i didnt read the second part

lmao

also why are they even showing the mcdonnell and boeing concepts

its gonna be martin

[desert agate]

https://youtu.be/QmOuqQ-elzY

[warm brook]

its always martin

[shrewd pecan]

its literally a image showing off of the program competitors

back when the JSF was still a competition

[warm brook]

douglas doesnt have the tailfins so i doubt itll manuever good

boeing looks like a pathetic blob of steel

[gentle viper]

day 2 of posting underappreciated Cold War Vehicles, 2S14 Zhalo

[unborn wyvern]

Best gun in Ghost Recon 1

[warm brook]

how many mm penetration

+whats the armour plating like

[shrewd pecan]

its a BTR

with a 85

"The 2S14 Zhalo-S was built on the BTR-70 armored personnel carrier chassis, with a turret mounting an 85 mm 2A62 gun, which had identical ballistic characteristics and ammunition to the towed 2A55 anti-tank gun. The 2A62 was equipped with a muzzle brake with an efficiency up to 75-80%, able to fire 20-25 shells per minute. The 2A62 used armor-piercing composite-rigid (APCR) shells, which were exclusive to the gun."

[kindred reef]

did germany have any torpedo planes in ww2 because ive never seen one

[manic latch]

They used HE-111 irrc

[eternal veldt]

They messed with it for a bit with the Fw-190 and Ju-87 as well.

[desert agate]

Germany primarily used sea planes for the deployment of airborne torpedos

the HE-115 was, other than the F-111 the main torpedo bomber aircraft of the luftwaffe

the ju-188 would also be used in the role heavily

[thorn trail]

F-111? I can't seem to search for an F-111. The only thing that pops up is the Aardvark

Or do you mean the He-111?

[desert agate]

fuck

yeah

brain on autopilot

[eternal veldt]

Browsing too much NCD, are you?

[thorn trail]

Was wondering "huh how did the F-111 become a torpedo bomber"

[desert agate]

i simp the pig all days of the week silver

[thorn trail]

lazerpig?

[desert agate]

ncd has nothing to do with my love of the aircraft

no

the F-111 was called the pig in RAAF service

[thorn trail]

Ah the vark

[eternal veldt]

Thought you're going to go all "Vark" from here on out

[desert agate]

Australian pilots considered aardvark to be too hard to say

also we dont have aardvarks here

so pig it became because it has a snout nose

lazerpig is a... poor content creator

[kindred reef]

bad piggies

[kindred reef]

wrong

[desert agate]

excuse me?

almost all of his videos are littered with inaccuracies, falsehoods or exaggerations

one of his recent videos was based entirely on an unsourced, unconfirmed, pdf he found online

[kindred reef]

his video on the t34 was very good

[desert agate]

his only videos with any substance are those tackling issues which are long-since resolved in most online forums and exist only to fellate those who already knew the content within them and just want to hear someone else say it to them

[kindred reef]

okay

but does anyone here watch squire? probably one of the most historically accurate ww2 channels out there tbh

[desert agate]

his Boyd video was also... bad

[kindred reef]

ok

[desert agate]

does more to attack Boyds character than what he was actually saying, and a lot of the time what he was saying wasn't wrong

[spring briar]

I wouldn't call lazerpigs videos full of inaccuracies
but he does lay on the comedy to the point where it becomes the main drive of the video
and the actual substance is lost

[desert agate]

he also rags on the fighter mafia too hard

they werent right on a lot of things

but they also werent always wrong

[alpine onyx]

remembers Lazerpig's Piorun video

Yeah no

[desert agate]

to be quite honest im of the opinion that just about anything he says that isnt about a tank should be entirely disregarded

but then as im not a huge tank nerd i cant fully verify what hes saying

[alpine onyx]

He's good for entertainment

But as someone doing proper in-depth research and presenting unbiased results (in whatever form that works), he's not good

[manic latch]

I really want him to shit on a British vehicle

So I can believe he is not that biased

[alpine onyx]

Eh, that's not necessarily proof of him being unbiased

I have my biases towards German stuff, yet I will out-shittalk anyone when it comes to Shitzig

[manic latch]

Hmm

I'm not a big fan of Gnevnies. I get the concept of being cheap and easy to build is nice but they really wasted resources for such ships instead building larger and more useful destroyers

[alpine onyx]

They do serve as a case of a somewhat modern destroyer that snapped in two in heavy weather

[manic latch]

Should have focused on Udaloi class earlier

She was gonna have twin DP 130mm mounts too

Would be much more useful for ww2

[alpine onyx]

wouldn't it be possible to give the Gnevnies 100mm single dp guns?

[manic latch]

So where will you put them

[alpine onyx]

instead of the main guns

[manic latch]

Best they can do was 76mm

Oh

[alpine onyx]

the surface gunnery action of Soviet DDs during the war was limited, and even during those they didn't seem to make good use of the larger caliber

[manic latch]

Well that's a hindsight

[alpine onyx]

of course

[manic latch]

If they knew that they would likely focus on AA

Smh like Japanese going 100mms earlier

[alpine onyx]

them using a single 76mm gun per side was a waste tbh

[manic latch]

What would ya put instead

37mms?

[alpine onyx]

another 37mm

[manic latch]

Yeah they weren't efficient designs

[alpine onyx]

the 76mm gun was used like a heavy AA gun, but with only one burst you can't do proper fire control

unless you have god tier tolerances

[manic latch]

Tashkent and Ognevois gets the twin turret 76mm later

Turns to twin 85mms on Ognevoi later

[alpine onyx]

that's better, but still not quite there

[manic latch]

Yeah American way is better

127mm, 40mm, 20mm

Tho Americans have the 127mm

Soviets don't have the DP 130

So 76mm was coping way

[alpine onyx]

another 37mm gun, or something more imposing in the close range department, would have served them better against the usual aerial threats

[manic latch]

Hell remove 1 torp launcher for more 37mm too

[zealous vine]

Why were the Japanese so reluctant on letting go casemates on their capital ships? Speaking of which, what even was the first capital ship design to not include casemates.

[alpine onyx]

Yamato

[manic latch]

Yamato ironic enough

Her earlier designs still had casemate

[alpine onyx]

And I guess the casemate guns had some use during the night battle shenanigans

[manic latch]

Kaga, Bearn and Zeppelin are only Cvs with casemate right?

[alpine onyx]

Akagi

[zealous vine]

No, I mean inclusive of all designs, including paper

Even the Yamato preliminaries

[eternal veldt]

Montemayor's the only youtube video creator that I relatively trust

same for MHV

[alpine onyx]

I mean, with MHV you have the amazing benefit of knowing exactly where he got each point from

[eternal veldt]

That's the great part.

[manic latch]

1929

[zealous vine]

Hot damn that smoke stack

Thank you though

Yamato preliminaries look so jank, even the late designs..

[manic latch]

Love those 203mms

[eternal veldt]

I see you haven't seen the Kongo Daikan yet

[zealous vine]

What da helllll

[eternal veldt]

You see sir, while you argue over casemates or turrets, you just need to use the big brained method of dual purpose casemates

[zealous vine]

I heard they attempted at those

[manic latch]

14CM/55 TWIN DUAL-PURPOSE TURRET

[zealous vine]

They actually exist.. my..

[zealous vine]

Why tf is the breakwater so high on the top design lol

[zealous vine]

I get that you usually shoot broadside

[alpine onyx]

tbh, those Kongou Kai designs are too whack, I don't see them having enough headroom for upgrades they'd need later down the line

[manic latch]

God I love this girl

9 460mm 12 155mm

All diesel with 6 shaft. 33 knot speed

Iowa would shit itself

[zealous vine]

With a Mogami-esque arrangement

Wow

[eternal veldt]

Japanese diesel, good meme

Taigei breaking noises

[manic latch]

[alpine onyx]

should ask the Germans

[eternal veldt]

I thought they did

[eternal veldt]

rest in pieces

Granted though...Nisshin is a thing

[alpine onyx]

meanwhile the Germans having no trouble regularly exceeding their rated maintenance intervalls

[desert agate]

reject diesel

return to triple expansion

[eternal veldt]

Still have no idea what IJN Command is smoking with C-44

Suddenly go to three shafts from four on Agano

[alpine onyx]

Maybe weight saving

[eternal veldt]

Time to check the bible

[alpine onyx]

With Yuubari being the lightweight of lightweights, and also using triple shaft

[manic latch]

Soviets choose 3 shafts on Soyuz for belt protection or smh weird reason like that. Is that true for Agano?

[alpine onyx]

I could see that possibility

[zealous vine]

Were the Japanese light cruisers good at what they were purposed for?

[alpine onyx]

for destroyer flotilla leading, I guess

but the moment they face something heavier, rip

[desert agate]

japanese light cruisers are an interesting spectrum of ships which are designed to fulfil a certain niche role that they utterly failed at from the outset to somewhat more respectable, yet still less capable than their contemporaries

[eternal veldt]

Not mentioned, shame.

This one's up to Shiki.

[desert agate]

Oyodo for example was a mistake

[alpine onyx]

Agano was the biggest mistake

[desert agate]

agano was better than oyodo any day of the week

[spring briar]

Yubari was good for when she was built

[alpine onyx]

eh, unless we go for night battles I prefer the better artillery and AA of Ooyodo over the torpedo broadside on Agano

[eternal veldt]

But Sirene

[alpine onyx]

Ooyodo is heavier, yes, but as an individual unit she offers me more than Agano can

[eternal veldt]

according to German wikipedia, they're gud botes

[desert agate]

6 guns total on a 10'000t design

[spiral cedar]

At least those six guns aren't shitty WWI thingies

[desert agate]

true

[eternal veldt]

Ooyodo was designed as SubRon flagship more than as your average light cruiser, I believe

[alpine onyx]

I rather take an overweight but useful ship than a more tonnage efficient but utterly useless ship

[desert agate]

designed 1908

[spiral cedar]

The 15.5cm has, if nothing else, good pen

[desert agate]

yes and that was a mistake

[spiral cedar]

The 6" is just garbage

[alpine onyx]

Four 100mm guns vs two 76.2mm guns for the AA broadside

no need to think about that

[desert agate]

get rid of the submarine flotilla command bullshit and throw on an extra turret or two

[spring briar]

agreed
but since this applies mostly to german ships
disagreed

[eternal veldt]

You know what, you're right spon

reject Ooyodo

give us this copium

[spring briar]

1938

oh boy

[desert agate]

noooo thats not what i meant

[spring briar]

that's from Lacroix' book innit?

[eternal veldt]

the bible, yes

[spring briar]

I recognize the font

[alpine onyx]

Hipper engages HMS Berwick
By the power of Drachinifel Berwick gets a handicap bonus for being the lighter ship

[desert agate]

county always win

[eternal veldt]

Sure, Canberra

[spring briar]

Ken't have a belt

[alpine onyx]

Berwick ends up getting hit thrice, no hits on Hipper

[eternal veldt]

now let's you back to Ironbottom sound

[alpine onyx]

yoink

[desert agate]

canberra won

she won the war

[eternal veldt]

But back on point, IJN command seems to realize SubRon flagships are bad at least

because both of those flagships are slated to become mega ducks

[spring briar]

what's better
winning the war with a few hickups
or losing the war with every advantage imaginable

don't have to ask me twice

[alpine onyx]

best IJN CL is Isuzu

fite me

[manic latch]

Yodo

[desert agate]

she is a cute

[spring briar]

Yubari

[alpine onyx]

I see plenty of wrong opinions

[desert agate]

wait i didnt realise

[spring briar]

[thorn trail]

what book is this?

[desert agate]

yubari is 3k tons fully loaded

[eternal veldt]

slight points to Tama for me

[desert agate]

whose idea was that

[alpine onyx]

[eternal veldt]

being one of the very few IJN ships to use camouflage without being turned into a hulk

[alpine onyx]

Yes, Yuubari was lighter than a bunch of DDs

[desert agate]

anyway sendais my beloved

[eternal veldt]

https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Cruisers-Pacific-Eric-Croix/dp/0870213113

[spring briar]

the bible

[alpine onyx]

I hope you hate money

[thorn trail]

Ah fuck doesn't deliver to my country

[manic latch]

Why Japanese ships have this "obsolete" feel on their superstructure designs

Except Yamato and Nagato

[thorn trail]

Also I have 0 money to spend on that so kek

[desert agate]

yar har

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

I can send the PDF

[alpine onyx]

Avast ye mates

[spring briar]

sirene

[desert agate]

dont advocate piracy friend

[eternal veldt]

[desert agate]

mods get mad

[alpine onyx]

what can I do against you Richie?

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

rest in peace brave soul

[eternal veldt]

But yea, you have your alternative way to get the book, you do you

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

don't @ me

[manic latch]

66gb

[eternal veldt]

🏃‍♂️

[desert agate]

my books folder has some bangers

[thorn trail]

Daz a lot of books

[eternal veldt]

Not just books, primary documents as well

[manic latch]

[alpine onyx]

@s

[eternal veldt]

Including a massive inventory of Marine Nationale booklet of general plans

You need a cutaway of French ships, ping Riche or me, we got you covered

[thorn trail]

Wait what does the folder name mean? That's german right?

[spring briar]

my folder is full of novel warship research

[manic latch]

Send this file to Germany in 1935

[eternal veldt]

Geheim oder nicht?

[alpine onyx]

Folder name just says History

[thorn trail]

Ah

[desert agate]

the decisive factor by air vice marshal Wrigley is one of my favourite books since it's effectively a deconstruction of interwar air-power theory and how air power doctrine should evolve

it's honestly banging

[spring briar]

print it on 60.000 feet of film tape

[alpine onyx]

you know how awful it'd be to store 160GB on 1930s tech?

[manic latch]

Yosh

[manic latch]

Ok what if

You print it out as paper

[spiral cedar]

Losing a turret to HE moment

[eternal veldt]

You have the entire RM24 catalogued offline, have you?

[alpine onyx]

nope

only those that I opened once after that one time invenio was offline for two weeks

and I regretted not saving anything

[eternal veldt]

One of them is the Idaho turret

[thorn trail]

What's RM24?

[alpine onyx]

correct

[spring briar]

Reichs Marine 24

[desert agate]

all my other books are on my (currently fucked) PC

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

pc fix yourself

[alpine onyx]

German archive index for naval artillery for 1930ish to 1945

[eternal veldt]

Bundesarchiv Reichsmarine 24 inventory, basically an inventory of untitled German equipment and their drawings

[manic latch]

Twin 533mms

[thorn trail]

So like drawings for the plan of the H class BBs and what not right?

[eternal veldt]

Nope, that falls under RM25

Schiff

[spring briar]

the H-class drawings are very limited sadly

[eternal veldt]

The O-class falls under the "Schlachtschiff" section too

[alpine onyx]

Stuff like that

[spring briar]

not even armor thicknesses

[alpine onyx]

detailed turret armor blueprint for the Hipper class

[eternal veldt]

Riche, I think the deck drawings are there for the H-class

[alpine onyx]

or of course, the plan of all plans

[thorn trail]

Photo is not loading for me

[eternal veldt]

that's how we came to the conclusion of a uniform 120mm turtledeck

[alpine onyx]

it's 12MB, open it in browser

[manic latch]

Still More popular than Project 24 despite she having more details

[eternal veldt]

and how everyone is wrong, including Garzke and Dulin

(and Stille still selling this bullshit to this day)

[spring briar]

imagine having knowledge of your designs

[alpine onyx]

and how we know H was meant to have a uniform 100mm deck

[manic latch]

[alpine onyx]

instead of this 100mm machinery and 120mm magazine stuff

[eternal veldt]

You are wrong, good sir

Soviet BB development stopped at Soyuz, according to this book, you cannot refute it

[manic latch]

I hate this book so much

[eternal veldt]

[thorn trail]

Wait which BB had the thickest deck armor? Yamato had the thickest belt armor right?

[alpine onyx]

do I want to know what they say about H-class?

[eternal veldt]

tfw my shitty 9 page document uses more sources than this book

Sirene, just

[spring briar]

Yamato had the thickest deck armor

[alpine onyx]

Yamato had the thickest deck of all completed battleships

200mm

[manic latch]

Yami

[spring briar]

followed by Richie and JB's 170 over the mags

[spiral cedar]

200 on the flat, 230 on the slopes

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Thickest single deck

Montana has a combined total of 10" deck

6" +4", IIRC?

[spiral cedar]

Plus a wee bit extra on the backing

[spiral cedar]

Don't pull a Jane's on me

[eternal veldt]

But yea, I lost sleep last night

just to see "H-39 better than Lion because gERmAn AccUrAcY"

[alpine onyx]

I can give a better rundown on the H-class than that, after drinking ten beers

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

Here's Montana:

 Machinery Area ("Standard" comparison)

Vertical protection:
Main belt - 16.1" Class A @ 19 deg w/ 1" STS backing

Horizontal protection (Outboard):
Weather deck - 1.5" STS on 0.75" STS backing (2.07" STS equivalent)
Main armor deck - 6.1" STS on 1.25" STS backing (6.96" STS equivalent)
Third deck - 0.75" STS 

Horizontal protection (Centerline):
Weather deck - 1.5" STS on 0.75" STS backing (2.07" STS equivalent)
Main armor deck - 5.8" STS on 1.25" STS backing (6.66" STS equivalent)
Third deck - 0.62" STS

[manic latch]

Project 24 was 245mm

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

I breathed too much Jane copium, sorry

have to commit seppuku

[thorn trail]

Wait most BBs had inclined armor right? Which BBs didn't have inclined armor?

[spring briar]

Bismarck

KGV

[alpine onyx]

KGV, German BBs

[spring briar]

sirene is slow

[manic latch]

Soyuz

[thorn trail]

Another question then: Why?

[eternal veldt]

Vanguard as well

[spring briar]

vanguard is not a BB

[thorn trail]

Why weren't they inclined?

[alpine onyx]

I had a stressful morning

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

Wanted more vertical height

[spring briar]

the copium reason

[alpine onyx]

German reasoning for that was that they wanted the belts to cover the waterline too

[manic latch]

More slope means less space and lower height for weight

[spring briar]

does anyone have that wonderful list from Mattzo where he compares vertical and inclined belt advantages?

emphasis on wonderful

[spiral cedar]

I can find it

[alpine onyx]

So something like Richelieu's arrangement was out of the question for them

[spring briar]

well

you guys needed something deep enough to meet up with the bottom of the turtleback

[alpine onyx]

The sloping position of the outer armor does not bring any significant advantages. The slight weight reduction for the same protection is outweighed by the vulnerability of the outer skin to even the lightest explosive shells, which can lead to considerable speed losses without affecting the vital parts of the ship in any way. If, on the other hand, increased penetration protection of the belt armor is to be achieved, it is suggested that a pre-armor of at least 60 mm, preferably 100 mm, be placed against the outer skin, and behind it, at a sufficient distance, a likewise vertical or nearly vertical armor of 250 to 300 mm be provided.

That was their stance on inclined belts

[spiral cedar]

*Their stance on internal belts

[spring briar]

their

!

[eternal veldt]

Remind me where's this from? Garzke's US BBs? Friedman's values have some differences compared to what's listed (and on armour cross sections), not because of lb too.

[spiral cedar]

[spiral cedar]

Given enough time, even a Kriegsmarine engineer will re-invent Littorio

[ivory ridge]

[alpine onyx]

well, the inclined belt ships they had a decent look at as well as their own inclined belt ships (Deutschland class, Shitzig) had thin plating outside of the main belt at the waterline

[spiral cedar]

Probably G&D

My Wifi is having a fit

[manic latch]

Wait. Montana had 248mm deck armor then
That's 3 mm more than Proj 24

[alpine onyx]

Cope

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

263mm, bye bye Pr24

[alpine onyx]

also can we say the Germans would reinvent Littorio, when they had their hand in the development of Littorio's armor in the first place?

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

But no - doesn't check out with Jaba's figures

[manic latch]

But Jaba said main deck is 5.8 not 6.1

[eternal veldt]

look carefully, centreline and outboard

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

Oh

[eternal veldt]

Forgot the # =mm conversion

[manic latch]

Why outer has more armor

[spiral cedar]

40# = 1" for US

[spiral cedar]

Outboard has no superstructure, also usually has the 5" secondary mags underneath

[ivory ridge]

cycle to prison
throw dynamite against SS officers
doesnt elaborate further
leaves

become mathematician professor and live until 2022

https://twitter.com/wrkclasshistory/status/1607406233312530433?s=20

Working Class History (@wrkclasshistory)

#OtD 26 Dec 1943, communist partisan, Mario Fiorentini, cycled to the Regina Coeli prison in Rome and threw two kilos of TNT at the SS officers guarding the gates. Eight were killed, five instantly. Guards opened fire, but were unable to hit him as he pedalled away to safety

Likes

4117

Retweets

639

Twitter · Dec 26, 2022, 4:01 PM

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

This doesn't tell me much about the backing, though, or the weather deck values

[spiral cedar]

Also outboard can be accessed by hitting the upper hull first, which is less resistant than the upper deck

[manic latch]

Proud

[manic latch]

Montana gained my respect more

[spiral cedar]

SoDak also did this, though afaik Iowa did not

[manic latch]

Well Iowa is not a battleship

[desert agate]

it is the tried and true history of naval engineering that all will eventually return to the equilibrium of design that is Littorio

[spiral cedar]

So Littorio is a crab

[desert agate]

yes

[spiral cedar]

[desert agate]

🦀

[manic latch]

Littorio deserves big respect

Inspired UP41

Who inspired Soyuz

[spring briar]

do not quote stille

[manic latch]

Who Inspired Project 24

[spiral cedar]

Berwick describing how she drove off Admiral Hipper, 1940, colorized

[spring briar]

Amiral Baudin inspired Brandenburg
Brandenburg inspired german pre dreads
leading to german dreadnoughts
leading to bismarck

I'm sorry

[manic latch]

Fuuuu

[spring briar]

Gloire inspired all

[manic latch]

Given the hate Soviet vehicles get. Maybe it's good Soyuz is not more popular

[spring briar]

stop being petty

[manic latch]

It's hard to have a vs debates with her since other side will straight jump to armor quality

[desert agate]

it is a pretty glaring flaw tbh

[manic latch]

But it's still 60k tons of steel

[spring briar]

don't stoop so low Krem

[manic latch]

You are right

Sirene endures KMS bullying

I will endure VMF

[spring briar]

atleast the KM and VMF get representation

[spiral cedar]

Something something "Yamato had iron armor"

[spring briar]

imagine

[eternal veldt]

pft

[thorn trail]

VMF?

What's VMF

[eternal veldt]

1876 Inflexible fights Yamato

[spring briar]

some ironclads could pen 1 meter of iron armor

[eternal veldt]

Inflexible wins

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

soviet navy

Voyenno-morskoy flot SSSR

aka

VMF

[eternal veldt]

Jane's Fighting Ships, 1942 edition

Because the Soviets bought the fact that Iowa has a 19" belt

[manic latch]

Yeah

For Soviets Iowa had
482mm belt
35 knot max speed
Higher penetration

So Project 24 needed to have
At least 30 knot speed
410mm belt armor with 20° slope
457mm/55 with autoloader and heavy AP was desired

[eternal veldt]

Good job, Soviet Intelligence

[spring briar]

I wonder how many teething problems that autoloader would have had

[manic latch]

Soviet logic

So Iowa is a BB, which means she is designed against her own AP

Which means she must have amazing belt armor

But in truth. Iowa wasn't a true BB

[spring briar]

you keep telling yourself that

[eternal veldt]

Eh, give it enough time and they'll hammer it out....hopefully.

Stares at the British 4"-6" array

[spring briar]

as with everything

[spiral cedar]

Guess neither was Soyuz then

[manic latch]

It wouldn't be US level of reload of course

[thorn trail]

Weren't there only a few BBs able to survive their own shells?

[manic latch]

Nah Soyuz had BB duties not a CV escort

[spring briar]

US BB guns had a special level of reload?

atleast say brooklyn

or DM

[eternal veldt]

Is this just referring to the DM 6 second reload

[manic latch]

I mean compare US 152mm with Soviet 152mm reload

Soviets were kinda jealous of US reload

[spring briar]

I'll tell you a little secret

[manic latch]

Like in war thunder you got
American 152mm having 10 round per minute

Soviet 152mm at 7.5

[spring briar]

continuous chain hoists

[alpine onyx]

And then along comes Nürnberg

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Come to think of it, is Shitzig released yet?

[spring briar]

no

[eternal veldt]

or still in dev hell

[alpine onyx]

In WT?

[eternal veldt]

WoWS

[spiral cedar]

Meanwhile Japan be like
Super spicy 15.5cm
But a ROF only slightly higher than a 20.3cm

[eternal veldt]

What's the protection of the US 152mms?

[spring briar]

french rof moment

[spiral cedar]

6" at 45 deg iirc

[eternal veldt]

Because the Japanese 15.5cm turret protection is very dame da ne

25mm, 32mm front

[spiral cedar]

Per NavGleaps:

Turret armor thickness:
Brooklyn and St. Louis classes:
Face: 6.5 in (16.5 cm)
Sides: 1.25 in (3.8 cm)
Rear: 1.5 in (3.8 cm)
Roof: 2.0 in (5.1 cm)

Cleveland and Fargo classes:
Face: 6.5 in (16.5 cm)
Sides: 3.0 in (7.6 cm)
Rear: 1.5 in (3.8 cm)
Roof: 3.0 in (7.6 cm)

[alpine onyx]

Wasn't it 165mm of turret face armor?

[spring briar]

Brooklyn and St. Louis classes:
Face: 6.5 in (16.5 cm)
Sides: 1.25 in (3.8 cm)
Rear: 1.5 in (3.8 cm)
Roof: 2.0 in (5.1 cm)

Cleveland and Fargo classes:
Face: 6.5 in (16.5 cm)
Sides: 3.0 in (7.6 cm)
Rear: 1.5 in (3.8 cm)
Roof: 3.0 in (7.6 cm)

DAMMIT JABA

[alpine onyx]

there we go, brain still at 12% capacity

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Okay, protection is at least better than Mogami

[spring briar]

face protection is wonderful on these

[alpine onyx]

also wasn't the IJN turret 25mm all around?

[thorn trail]

most ships had their thickest armor on the turrets right?

[spiral cedar]

Only 29 deg from vertical tho

[spiral cedar]

If you're not British, yeah

All British turrets aspire to be a projectile

[thorn trail]

Why?

Why did the turrets have weaker armor?

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/840434830684323870/image0.png

[spring briar]

Armor thickness for both twin and quad mountings as given in "Naval Weapons of World War Two" by John Campbell and ADM 234/271:
Face: 12.74 in (32.4 cm) (520 lbs.)
Fore Sides: 8.82 in (22.4 cm) (360 lbs.)
Rear Sides: 6.86 in (17.4 cm) (280 lbs.)
Rear: 6.86 in (17.4 cm) (280 lbs.)
Roof: 5.88 in (14.9 cm) (240 lbs.)
Floor 2.96 in (7.5 cm) (120 lbs.) plus 4.9 in (12.4 cm) (200 lbs.) sill plate in front of the gunhouse to protect the top of the barbette.

compared to 430mm of face armor on richie

[spiral cedar]

457mm at 49.1 deg of Massy

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Project 66 with 9 220mm and 8 130mm DP guns designed to counter 203mm cruisers. DM was it's biggest problem and rival

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

They trusted their flash protection

But yeah I never really understood it

[spring briar]

choices

[eternal veldt]

my bad, yea, 25mm all round

then comes to the Yamato modification and they got 32mm front plates and insulating panels all round

[spiral cedar]

Mhm

[alpine onyx]

K-class with 30mm turret faces

[eternal veldt]

still omega shit protection

[spiral cedar]

Tfw the dud 5" shell still knocks your turret out

[eternal veldt]

(and likely what eventually caused Yamato to blow up since a bomb hit there and set a fire)

[manic latch]

Gangut good ending

[alpine onyx]

I guess the British thought that with three quad turrets, loosing one turret still leaves you with eight guns

And then they cut two guns

[eternal veldt]

The real "holy shit" moment for British turret protection is when you look at Nelson's scheme

none of the 152mm barbettes have any protection

[alpine onyx]

Also super shallow belt

kek

[thorn trail]

wait what

why

[eternal veldt]

weight, baby

[thorn trail]

so basically to try to go under the WNT, they gimped the armor of the Nelson?

[alpine onyx]

Getting a 165mm deck for the mags was expensive

[eternal veldt]

Either that or they're considered unnecessary

[manic latch]

What about Warspite casemates

[eternal veldt]

But time to remind Sirene of Bismarck's little 20mm pog hole on her 15cm turrets

[spring briar]

Vertical belt enthousiasts mental gymnastics diagram

[alpine onyx]

Shut it Silver

I am having a good day

[eternal veldt]

[spring briar]

@spiral cedar found it

BEST LIST EVER

[thorn trail]

20mm pog hole?

[eternal veldt]

take a look at this - what do you think is the problem?

[spring briar]

only 20mm of armor on the lower barbette of the 15cm twins

[eternal veldt]

The walls are 20mm, remember

[spring briar]

very vulnerable to lolpens

[thorn trail]

huh

[eternal veldt]

Fortunately only present on the forward pair of 15cm turrets

but still a very Bismarck moment

[spiral cedar]

I wonder how this would read if it instead said
-Thinner armour is needed (say 11" rather than 14")

[eternal veldt]

alongside the tomfuckery of her horizontal protection

[spiral cedar]

Might get the point across better

[spring briar]

I love being on the best team

france however did not know to join the internal or external inclined belt team

so they did the unthinkable and joined both

[eternal veldt]

There was a half-arsed refute on that earlier, which I think Jaba saw already

[spiral cedar]

I mean, besides Japan, didn't every country that did one do both

[spring briar]

france did both at the same time

[spiral cedar]

Hood and Nelson
NC and SD
Littorio and that dumbass curved cruiser belt

[spring briar]

phoenix will be angry

[spiral cedar]

Good

[eternal veldt]

Here.

[spring briar]

concave armor

to hit those tangential lines for the best penetration

[eternal veldt]

and the answer

Curved belt, the Abruzzi?

[spring briar]

it's funny that Britain went for vertical belts for deeper protection
yet almost gets rekt when a diving shell pens under the belt

[eternal veldt]

Luigi Amedeo Giuseppe Maria Ferdinando Francesco di Savoia, duca degli Abruzzi

thanks sirene

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Also, where is this insanity from?

[spiral cedar]

Yeah, the Assbrushy

[spring briar]

Mattzo

on Drach's server

[eternal veldt]

I imagine it got torn apart?

[spiral cedar]

It's moreso a list of arguments the UK designers used

[spring briar]

and Mattzo doesn't want to see the advantages of the inclined belts

[spiral cedar]

Idk I just think "there would be trouble attaching framing to the outer face of the armor" is a funny one to include

[eternal veldt]

Docking isn't exactly an issue if you just put bollards on the weather deck, is it?....

or if the situation calls for it, just....go Iowa's route?

[spring briar]

Mattzo also made a list of issues with Richie

as far as the "richelieu on paper" vs "richelieu irl" argument is concerned I totally agree

[spiral cedar]

The cable passage watertightness is a bit mean, since I think that was an issue everyone had

[spring briar]

it's still an issue

[eternal veldt]

Was about to say Littorio quite literally flooded to death via cable tunnels

[spring briar]

as the sural boilers exist I'm sure france
or another navy
could've fixed cable tunnel flooding some way or another

[eternal veldt]

Some of the criticisms are valid

Though the main point of "crashing the rate of fire" doesn't exactly ring to me - Generally, you need to observe the fall of shot, make adjustments, then open fire again anyway, at least in British practices when trying to do rangefinding

funny how "if she hit a mine" was a criticism to the engineering compartment though, because Richelieu did exactly that - the only negative effect is losing 3000 litres of wine

[spiral cedar]

Mine damage is weird

Especially magnetic mines

[eternal veldt]

Overall, I think some of the criticisms here are partly because of "teething" problems of the main artillery

[spiral cedar]

The more precise version of the objection would be to point out what % of the propulsion would be lost if a hit occurred at the transverse bulkheads between two machinery compartments—which is a valid point, and something that holds back, say, the New Orleans class with their grouped machinery layout instead of the prior and following unit layout

[eternal veldt]

North Carolina also initially had serious vibration issues, and as far as I remember, the US went with different bladed props on each of the SoDaks until they arrived at the optimal solution on Alabama

"smokiness" is just a bit over the line though for the Sural boilers

[spiral cedar]

Yeah that's nitpicky

[spring briar]

with richie
we kind of got what we delivered
an unfinished BB

[eternal veldt]

Honestly though, I'd probably add one more thing here though that's a bit more alarming

the ammo capacity for the 152mm guns

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

400 rounds per gun, for a total of 3600 is just.... over the top?

Jean Bart was very lucky that the ammo storage was empty at the time

[spiral cedar]

Nonsense, you can never have too deep of a 152mm magazine!
hides Boise taking a 203mm hit underneath the magazine belt into the 152mm magazine

[valid trout]

Sodak had 152??

[spiral cedar]

[eternal veldt]

no, Richelieu

[valid trout]

Oh ok

[eternal veldt]

Yea, but you're still sitting on 62 thousand kg worth of powder, even Hood is only at 15 thousand

[spring briar]

yeah not sure what the idea there was

[eternal veldt]

Probably to fend off smaller vessels from night attacks

[spring briar]

but then again 150mm deck over it

[eternal veldt]

You guys were expecting foes from all directions from the experience on the CTs, apparently

[spring briar]

you don't always get to fight a BB with a radically new shell and gunnery doctrin compared to european BB's

[eternal veldt]

Well, it was a response to Littorios

[spiral cedar]

If it can pen that, anywhere else on the ship can be penned anyway

[eternal veldt]

not fucking Massy

[spiral cedar]

So yea, understandable

The US BBs had hefty 5" loads too

But that makes sense because AA fire takes a shit-ton of shells and you need to Not Run Out Of Ammo While Being Bombed

glances at UK in Med

[spring briar]

I'm glad we tried 6" DP

as bad as it ended up being

[eternal veldt]

I remember British criticism towards the SoDaks on the Secbat

"oh, they're grouped together too much, that's bad"

[spring briar]

yawn

[spiral cedar]

2" armor, not like they're gonna sympathetic detonate from fragments

They ain't British casemates at Jutland

[eternal veldt]

Comparisons continued during the war, so that the designers of the final abortive British battleships in 1944–5 had to explain why their ship seemed to offer less on a greater displacement than the US Iowas. A British officer who visited the US Bureau of Ships in 1943 commented only that he could understand DNC’s comment and the perceived inferiority of US practices, but ‘their ships seem to sink no more quickly than ours’.

"US inferior lol"

Good meme

[spring briar]

typical washinton cruiser

my ass

[eternal veldt]

Ah, British casemates at Jutland, amazing stuff

cordite fire on casemate, entire starboard casemate battery knocked out and nearly blowing the main mags of Malaya

incredible

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

France was using rather thick strips of poudre B compared to british spaghetti cordite

we should've fought at Jutland

[spiral cedar]

Franco-American alliance at Jutland against Grand Fleet

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Nevada at Jutland

[spiral cedar]

The French ships explode, the American ships can't kill anything, the British ships explode

[eternal veldt]

let's go boys

[spring briar]

French ships deflagrate

throwing turrets around

New york strips her left barrel

or was it her right barrel

[spiral cedar]

Wyoming shoots at Lion but kills Queen Mary instead

[spring briar]

BuOrd vanishes

(they put all the new shells in storage)

[eternal veldt]

Beatty frantically signals the US squadron to stop firing, except confusing them and they fire harder

[spring briar]

the US 12" battleships use Russian 12" export SAP

[eternal veldt]

oi Riche

the minute you posted Dupleix, it got nerfed

What are you doing

[spring briar]

oh god they did

wtf

[eternal veldt]

What have you done?

[spiral cedar]

The curse

[spring briar]

shoutout to Daisen

which would snap in half in a wave trough

[eternal veldt]

Daisen's just fucking weird overall, 1920ish look

40ish equipment with shitty homemade bofors

[spiral cedar]

Cursed

[eternal veldt]

and half a takao glued to the side, I guess

[spring briar]

there's one thing the French navy has that Germany doesn't in WW1

[eternal veldt]

But, there is one good point about Daisen

it uses Haruna's camouflage

[spring briar]

(gonna pause for a sec to get you guy's jokes out of the way)

[eternal veldt]

let's see if this gets Hit's attention

[thorn trail]

other than HMS Incomparable, what Battlecruiser design was similar to Incomparable (large af guns but armor so thin basically paper)

[spiral cedar]

Lex

[eternal veldt]

Die-joubu

[spiral cedar]

Die-jōbu too, yes

Courageous

Renown

Invincible

[eternal veldt]

Just toss the whole British BC lineage in there

[spiral cedar]

Aside from Hood ig

[eternal veldt]

and G3, I think

[spring briar]

HMS Incomparable was actually downscaled from 3x2 20" to 3x2 18"
and even a 3x2 16" if need be

[spiral cedar]

Tru

[eternal veldt]

Hood is a damn shame

because the rest of the Admirals would get the exchanged shell/powder room arrangement

just not Hood

[spring briar]

the 20" gun was simply a question by Fischer to Elswick as to what the biggest naval gun they could produce was

they replied a 20" gun of ~40 calibers in length and a weight of 200 tons

[eternal veldt]

Speaking of British BCs, I have a Chinese book on British BCs, unfortunately bit of a shitshow

doesn't even show Repulse's fridge door torpedoes on the diagrams

(Don't even ask about Renown, deleted entirely)

[thorn trail]

fridge door torpedoes?

[eternal veldt]

They're above water, you open the door, torpedo wooshes out

[thorn trail]

Wait they had torpedoes?

[eternal veldt]

Hood's torpedo tubes at one point was the leading theory to "why Hood was lost"

[spiral cedar]

Torpedoes were common on capital ships up until about the '20s

[thorn trail]

ah

[eternal veldt]

Japan had them on the Nagatos too

just removed during the big refits

[spiral cedar]

The USN occasionally did torpedo practice launches with the battleline

They usually went poorly

[thorn trail]

what was the last US ship to have torps?

[spiral cedar]

Sometimes the torps even ran circular back to the battleline

[eternal veldt]

US BB, you mean?

[thorn trail]

by that I mean US BB

Yeah US BB

[eternal veldt]

All the way until Colorado, the tubes were removed during refits

[thorn trail]

ah

[eternal veldt]

German big brains still use torpedo tubes on H-39 though

Can't use too much ammo to kill those pesky frieghters

[spiral cedar]

Like Jervis Bay

[manic latch]

Soyuz had Hydro

[spring briar]

use more expensive and rare ammo instead

[delicate beacon]

Save ammo, use an expensive device with motor strapped to it instead.

[spring briar]

sang and I are one being

[spiral cedar]

Clearly

They should just ram

[spring briar]

but only sang got emote

[delicate beacon]

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

How modern ramming bow would look like

[delicate beacon]

Wait, Ill emote you

Perfection

[spring briar]

thanks

[thorn trail]

This is stupid but where there any dreadnoughts that had uh the same hull type as the Zumwalt destroyer?

[delicate beacon]

We're just like reddit. The same comment twice but one gets upvoted and the other downvoted.

[eternal veldt]

Zumwalt's emphasis is on stealth, and was based on an experimental hull earlier

[thorn trail]

Yeah I know but where there any tumblehome dreadnoughts?

[eternal veldt]

Tumblehome?

oh boy, ask Riche with the French predreadnoughts

[thorn trail]

I vaguely remember the pre-dreadnoughts have it but idk if there were any dreadnought designs that were tumblehome

[spring briar]

plenty of dreadnoughts had inwardly inclined sides

[delicate beacon]

I remember seeing some interesting charts with ships penning eachother range and torpedoes being used to cover the closer ranges.

[spring briar]

actually most did

[eternal veldt]

Wait, let me get that woke russian design

[spring briar]

but there's a difference between a tumblehome and such inclines

[thorn trail]

so no dreadnought designs were tumblehome?

[spring briar]

pretty much

[thorn trail]

like even planned/cancelled ones?

[spiral cedar]

Not the internal vertical-sloped belt one right

[spring briar]

is he getting Bubov?

[eternal veldt]

da!

[spring briar]

yep

that still isn't a tumblehome

[eternal veldt]

But yea, Sevastopol from a quick glance is also inwardly sloped, but not tumblehome

[spiral cedar]

Yeah, that's just Michael Jackson

[spring briar]

yeehee

[thorn trail]

Another question, why were some French pre-dreadnoughts tumblehome?

[spring briar]

because it improved the firing angles of the secondary battery

[eternal veldt]

I remember someone mentioning a specific reason for this layout

[spring briar]

but mostly it is a result of them choosing for a lozenge style arrangement on their 2nd class of pre dreadnoughts

[spiral cedar]

Being extra kind to those soft-capped shells that need under 20 deg obliquity to function

[thorn trail]

lozenge? what's a lozenge style arrangement

[spring briar]

diamond style gun layout

[eternal veldt]

Right, stability

[spiral cedar]

     T     
T         T
     T

[spring briar]

USS Brooklyn is a very good example of this arrangement

[thorn trail]

didn't dreadnought also have this gun arrangement?

[spiral cedar]

No

She had

     T     
T         T    T
     T

[thorn trail]

Wait what was the last Dreadnought to have wing turrets?

[spring briar]

also, on dreadnought those wing turrets were on a separate deck

might be Courbet or Rivadavia

[thorn trail]

Also why did earlier dreadnoughts have wing turrets

[spring briar]

when the secondary battery of earlier pre dreadoughts was made into a uniform main armament, it meant that the sides of the ships which had the secondary battery was already adjusted to having magazines and barbettes

[delicate beacon]

Bow needed to be tall and they also needed 4 guns forward

[spring briar]

this allowed for quick transition to dreadnought style ships while retaining the engine and machinery layouts of prior designs

[eternal veldt]

There were concerns over superfiring as well IIRC

South Carolina didn't give a shit, naturally

[spring briar]

yeah it wasn't done except that one time with a secondary gun on Henri IV

so to suddenly go to superfiring main guns they'd need a more gradual shift
unless you're america

[eternal veldt]

US also had experience with superfiring already with the silly gun mounts like the Virginias

[spring briar]

wedding cake looking ass

[thorn trail]

The one with a smol gun on top of main battery?

[eternal veldt]

Yes. Not sucessful.

[thorn trail]

It looks goofy as fuck

[spring briar]

it did teach the USN a lot about hoists
and they used this in the brooklyns

[eternal veldt]

When the superfiring tops fired, the shockwaves seriously impacted the crew on the bottom turret

[spiral cedar]

Kearsarge

[eternal veldt]

Hampered reloading rate and is generally more an obstacle

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586214066352029707/1056381284114509874/US_Battleships_Friedman_043.JPG

[thorn trail]

Wait were there any plans to have over and under main guns on a turret instead of side by side?

[spiral cedar]

Break out the Japanese

[spring briar]

yes

the Peruvians

[thorn trail]

Any pics of the ship or of the design?

[delicate beacon]

This is what peak gunplacement looks like.

[eternal veldt]

Russians have a quad 130mm

The infamous MLK-16-130

[delicate beacon]

?

[thorny patio]

Okay okay... So I can't believe I even had this thought. I'm not really taking myself seriously here but...

RMS Olympic and/or Britannic...

I mean the al devs seem like the type to add joke ships

[spiral cedar]

grouped machinery

[chilly osprey]

Not a 'real' design

[delicate beacon]

wow, party pooper

[thorn trail]

wha-

that looks cursed

[eternal veldt]

Didn't Ansaldo make those quadruple turrets?

[manic latch]

Italian and Soviet designs

Soviets had quad 100mm and 130mm for that

Italians gone bigger

[eternal veldt]

fuck, I can't find the pic again

[manic latch]

Ansaldo i mean as for Italy

[thorn trail]

that looks like a pain to actually use

[spring briar]

sideways superfiring

[ivory ridge]

based

[eternal veldt]

There we go

These are the Ansaldo mounts I mentioned

or, Japanese. Not much information on them, apparently.

[spring briar]

might be able to ID the origin by comparing the barrel construction with Japanese and italian practice

kinda screams Italian to me

specifically the 381/40

[eternal veldt]

o..oh dear...

[thorn trail]

the 4 of them in a square look made me think that this was a gatling gun or smth

[eternal veldt]

It's Hiraga's copium again

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

These are all 41cm gun designs

And for Kongo Daikan, apparently

so it gets wackier for that boat

[manic latch]

And here is the Soviet 100mm BL-127

[spring briar]

I feel like someone is forgetting the Italian twin 76mm over under

Kongo Daikan is the opposite of Bismarck

[eternal veldt]

in what way

[thorn trail]

looking at this makes me wonder, with today's technology is it possible to make like a 100+ mm rotary cannons and place it on a ship?

[spring briar]

all the armor in one place

0 redundancy

[alpine onyx]

Redundancy is optional

[thorn trail]

And no not a CIWS but a gun like the 5in gun on US destroyers

[alpine onyx]

Tonnage efficiency is all that a ship needs

[spring briar]

Sirene you use that word so often nowadays

[eternal veldt]

Hipper: