history

[thorn trail]

@eternal veldt @spiral cedar Was it the G3 or N3 that had a gun between the towers? And so why did they choose that design?

[spiral cedar]

Both

[desert agate]

both

[thorn trail]

Why did they choose that?

[desert agate]

shrinks the overall citadel length afaik

[thorn trail]

Ah so a weight saving measure?

[desert agate]

brits were also a bit of broadside > chasing

[spiral cedar]

The idea was to shorten the total citadel length by concentrating the magazine spaces. Doing this forward rather than aft also shortened the length of the prop shafts, saving weight (no magazine space to pass through in the aft half of the ship)

[thorn trail]

ah

Another question: Why did the Germans go for light shell, fast velocity while other navies were more for heavier shells?

[spiral cedar]

The Kriegsmarine did not expect battle ranges to grow by as much as other navies expected after WWI. They also valued highly the greater hitting space of a flat-firing projectile over the better energy retention of a heavier one

[thorn trail]

Wait huh the german had their own equivalent to the Type 3 Shiki shell?

[tough quail]

meanwhile the french

[solid mango]

Im pretty sure ive seen that thing somewhere but im forgor

[desert agate]

🛳️

[thorn trail]

Huh I don't get

[desert agate]

she missed

[spiral cedar]

              ![shs](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/878924887647977502.webp?size=128 "shs")![shs](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/878924887647977502.webp?size=128 "shs")![shs](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/878924887647977502.webp?size=128 "shs")  

[desert agate]

i studied ballistics in school
fascinating subject
things go up
things go down

[solid mango]

[eternal veldt]

A joke about her dispersion

[desert agate]

yes

[solid mango]

What r u doing jaba

[spiral cedar]

Covering the Torch landings

[solid mango]

Yes ik but were you trying to animate it

[desert agate]

[eternal veldt]

[delicate beacon]

Can the Bi-ish stop having so many ship classes

[solid mango]

Who are the bitish

[ivory ridge]

Innit bruv

[desert agate]

💣

[solid mango]

Nah nah in pretty sure its "iit brub" in Bitish

[eternal veldt]

you forgot to put a few s behind that.

[tough quail]

i think you're thinking of insmouth fish monsters

[desert agate]

sexo

[thorn trail]

I can barely see the bomb in dark mode discord and i thought the corsair was dropping a light on Haruna or smth

[solid mango]

Rorkets 🧠

[eternal veldt]

Also, just learnt yesterday that the SCB-125 refits to the Essexs don't actually include asphalt/steel decks for Jets and whatnot - just a few reinforced steel sections here and there

[tough quail]

leylight corsair

[eternal veldt]

The anti-skid asphalt plates were only added ~1970-ish

so it's wood all along

[tough quail]

1970

marat had that shit in the 40s

get good, americunts

[desert agate]

marat and what flight deck

[thorn trail]

Wait supercarries have asphalt decks right? do they like replace the deck every so often?

[eternal veldt]

Americunts had it on their BBs at Pearl my guy

[tough quail]

fuck

[eternal veldt]

just removed after finding it flammable

[tough quail]

joek about marat getting a bunch of concrete slabs on her deck after being refloated

[eternal veldt]

Sekrit dokumints, I believe

In fact, I don't think we even know much about how supercarrier's strength deck works compared to the often argued hangar/vs flight deck strength deck comparisons for WW2 ships

[desert agate]

it's not asphalt as far as im aware it's "something" coated in a non-slip durable material

[eternal veldt]

as long as it's not linoleum

[spiral cedar]

Oh hey, now this person is saying that Baltimore used uncapped AP

The SAP shell that the British used was capped, which increased the angle at which the shell would penetrate rather than ricochet. When it hit an armour plate, it weakened it so that the shell body had an easier time penetrating. It also prevents the shell body to deform upon initial contact with the armour, the cap tanking the impact. The AP mark 21 shells that the Baltimore used I believe didn't have a hardened cap, but rather used the main shell body for that role. I'm ranting.

[desert agate]

back to the 1890s are we

[alpine onyx]

The great qualities of HMS London

[spiral cedar]

Never mind that they used some of the hardest AP caps ever used on a warship

[manic latch]

Yooo Rich its shell discussion

[alpine onyx]

London has dp main guns

Baltimore doesn't

Checkmate

[tough quail]

baltimore channels the spirit of holy texas and floods her ass so sharply the throws her bow into the air to use her main guns as anti-air

please give updoots

[thorn trail]

This is what I found regarding Baltimore's projectiles

[desert agate]

number of airborne planes taken out by County class main guns: 1
number of airborne planes taken out by Baltimore class main guns: 0

checkmate americans

[thorn trail]

Wait how did a county class kill an airplane

[alpine onyx]

I'd take the bet that a decapped Baltimore shell still has better pen than those British wannabe AP shells

[spiral cedar]

Were the Admiral Hipper heavy cruisers the strongest and the most durable WW2 cruisers ever built since Prinz Eugen was able to withstand two nukes?

[tough quail]

alright im getting the gun

[desert agate]

HMAS Canberra reportedly downed a low flying betty with her main guns

[eternal veldt]

Baltimore channels her inner ninjutsu

[manic latch]

Did you know Texas flooded herself to have more range in D-Day?

[eternal veldt]

transforms into Des Memes when there is an air attack

get fucked IJNAS

[tough quail]

bruuuuuuuh no way

[alpine onyx]

Must have been an incredible show of strength

[solid mango]

Damn since Independence had a Cle-

[desert agate]

it was an ever so slight obliteration

[eternal veldt]

How about we talk about something less well known?

Like Warspite killing half of the Kriegsmarine DDs?

[manic latch]

I know right it's the manifestation of American technology superiority and ingenuity to overcome any weakness enemies of freedom can abuse

[spiral cedar]

One of the replies

[desert agate]

did you know that uhm uh mmm uh America

[solid mango]

Why why why

[eternal veldt]

He quoted a good book

[tough quail]

shame about the uh pilot gore like the guy thought but incredibly fucking based

[eternal veldt]

except on the wrong fucking class

[tough quail]

cb scharn cb scharn

bottom text

[eternal veldt]

C-, there was an attempt

[ivory ridge]

Battlecruisers so of course Hood best Cruiser

[desert agate]

Kutz then

[manic latch]

Kronk

[tough quail]

yavuz undefeated

turkish superiority maintained

[manic latch]

Yavuz ran away from Mariya so hard

All to get scrapped in 1970s instead

[desert agate]

turkyie stronk

[eternal veldt]

big shame Germany refused to buy back Goeben when offered

[tough quail]

at least germoney tried to buy her back

in this one tragedy

[eternal veldt]

This is why they're cursed with the Baden Wurtemburgs

[tough quail]

wait i thought they did try

[spiral cedar]

Ottoman minelayer Nusret = High Seas Fleet in killing Entente capital ships in 1 day

[tough quail]

oh

you're right actually

[manic latch]

Duality of man

[tough quail]

nevermind fuck you germany

you still suck

[eternal veldt]

The Turkish government offered to sell the ship to the West German government in 1963 as a museum ship, but the offer was declined.

[tough quail]

and should not be a sovereign nation

[desert agate]

germon >

[tough quail]

i hate having history i hate having history

[manic latch]

SMS bad smh

[tough quail]

the moltkes were good though

[desert agate]

reminders of the war they lost the 2nd hardest

[tough quail]

also they should have bought her back as an apology for that whole exchange being kind of a

like

[manic latch]

Gangut sisters: We know you hate heavy artillery ships alot but at least can one of us become museum for our efforts in world wars?

Khrushchev: Fuck you

[tough quail]

horrendously egregious warcrime

lol we gave you this battlecruiser so we could forcibly drag your indecisive country into a war with russia

[eternal veldt]

Ganguts are quite old at that point, tbf

[manic latch]

As was Mikasa

[desert agate]

tbf

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

and ships are costly as all hell to maintain

[manic latch]

Avrora lives at least

[desert agate]

the Ottomans did nothing to help matters for themselves

[tough quail]

valid

[eternal veldt]

Mikasa was a fucking aquarium at one point

[tough quail]

yeah to be fair i think the USSR was busy with like

[thorn trail]

Wait what was the most guns put on a destroyer ever?

[tough quail]

losing something like 12% of their total population

[desert agate]

the Turkish government wasnt aware of the Germans closing the straights but when they did, did absolutely nothing to backpedal

[eternal veldt]

You want to know what the real crime is?

[desert agate]

a reasonable country would have just uh... said no

[eternal veldt]

Gremyashchiy

[tough quail]

desperately wouldve liked to keep a kirov though

[eternal veldt]

hate

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/all-might-noooooooo-screaming-shouting-my-hero-academia-gif-16850514

[thorn trail]

what ship is this

[eternal veldt]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_destroyer_Gremyashchy_(1937)

[desert agate]

something something the Germans have just taken Constantinople

[eternal veldt]

even is in AL

[tough quail]

gremy my beloved

[manic latch]

Ah nuclear test

[spiral cedar]

Probably some DD being used as a troop transport

[desert agate]

lmfao

[manic latch]

Should be 8

Somers etc

[tough quail]

i have an obligatory russian lady oc for the rp shit i do with vae i named after her

i cant think of any that went over 8, yeah

[manic latch]

Even Okhotnik was 8

One of last DD designs of Tsar Empire

[desert agate]

ah yes the long thing

[tough quail]

just make her wider

make them twins

now we've got a party

[thorn trail]

How large were the guns?

[manic latch]

130mm

[tough quail]

british UR DD with four of the renown triple 105mm mounts

[manic latch]

You know

I never saw a triple turret DD

Ever

[eternal veldt]

They're 102s

and IIRC they sucked dick

[tough quail]

oh whoops

my bad

also yes

[eternal veldt]

How about we time transport HMS Swift to WW2

[tough quail]

i think trying to work those guns on a DESTROYER in the NORTH ATLANTIC would be

like

[eternal veldt]

Resurrect Fisher's failed project

[tough quail]

genuinely worse than being sent to a gulag

[thorn trail]

Were there any three-gun/triple gun destoryers?

[ivory ridge]

Now hear me out

[manic latch]

None I think

[desert agate]

according to the RAN's website HMAS Vampire carried 62 pom poms

[tough quail]

not that i recall, everyone was too weak

[tough quail]

BOMB THIS JAPAN

[desert agate]

62
pom poms
on a DD

[thorn trail]

Wait which ship had the most anti air guns ever?

[desert agate]

its wrong

but still

lmao

[thorn trail]

Like by number not by AA broadside

[eternal veldt]

one of the Iowas, most likely

[tough quail]

is the implication there that she just ferried the guns around

[manic latch]

Yamato

[eternal veldt]

49 single Oerlikons - all replaced by twins IIRC

[manic latch]

Wait

[desert agate]

well its her armament

[manic latch]

It's Yamato no?

Most barrels

[desert agate]

if shes carrying them around

[eternal veldt]

then add 80 bofors to her

[desert agate]

it wouldnt be her armament

just her cargo

[eternal veldt]

49 x 2 + 80

[tough quail]

valid

[desert agate]

also

[eternal veldt]

Aquila, is it

[desert agate]

[manic latch]

LOOK FLYING WING. SOVIETS MAKE STEALTH TECH LIKE HO-2299!!111

[thorn trail]

Woah Iowa had a shit ton of guns

[thorn trail]

wait what ship is this?

[desert agate]

Aquila

[eternal veldt]

again, a reminder that the single mounts are replaced by twins by 1945

i.e. Oerlikon Mark 1/2/3/4 --> Mark 24

[desert agate]

yeah Iowa comes out on top

[thorn trail]

Oh holy shit

[manic latch]

Yama

[thorn trail]

that's a lot of guns

[manic latch]

Man

Montana in 1945

Would be nice AA number

[desert agate]

montana deserved the L

[eternal veldt]

Oh wait, I'm wrong.

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

BB64: 3 x 3 - 406/50 Mk 7, 10 x 2 - 127/38 Mk 12, 20 x 4 - 40/56 Mk 1.2, 2 x 2 - 20/70 Mk 4, 49 x 1 - 20/70 Mk 4, 2 catapults, 3 seaplanes (OS2U, SOC, SO3C)

Yamato is still on top, yes.

[manic latch]

Finally

[tough quail]

yeah i was about to say

[thorn trail]

Wait more on the alternate/theoretical history side but which one ship of the modern era (Civilian or Military) would make the biggest difference in WW2?

[tough quail]

i was double checking yamato myself

[eternal veldt]

Was checking either California, Iowa, or Yamato

[manic latch]

She has triple 25mm mounts those give big boost

[eternal veldt]

1/1946, BB44 California: 4 x 3 - 356/50 Mk 7.11, 8 x 2 - 127/38 Mk 28, 14 x 4 - 40/60 Mk 2, 40 x 2 - 20/70 Mk 24, 1 catapult, 4 seaplanes, SC-2, SG, Mk 8, 4x Mk 4, Mk 13 radars

[desert agate]

USS Gerald R Ford

[eternal veldt]

California is just insane

1944: 8 tubs of bofors

[manic latch]

Wait
How you will maintain her

[eternal veldt]

gets hit by a Kamikaze

[desert agate]

a single super carrier could sink the entire IJN in a matter of weeks

[eternal veldt]

1945: Ok, I will double my AA, AND add two more bofors tub

[desert agate]

you dont need to maintain her the IJN wont last long enough

[thorn trail]

For civilian ship? Which type of current Civilian ship would make the greatest help for the logistics of the allies?

[manic latch]

Huh

[spiral cedar]

If "ship" includes subs, then I think an Ohio-class SSBN would make quite a splash

[desert agate]

any modern container ship

[tough quail]

you;re not gonna budge anyhting with a single transport ship

[manic latch]

Knock Nevis vs Kamikaze

[desert agate]

although a modern cruise liner could be pretty nice for moving troops around the various fronts

[spiral cedar]

Type as in an entire class/category or just one hull

[thorn trail]

one hull sorry

[manic latch]

Aren't they really top heavy tho

Like irrc they really fear from any kind of bad wind areas

[eternal veldt]

Send a Kongo class DDG back in time, sink the Wasp, do 🅱️antai Kessen with the USN an-

Oh wait, wrong animu

[desert agate]

wouldnt be a massive one

since it would need to fit in docks of the time

[spiral cedar]

Probably a container ship full of iPhones coming from the PRC to the USA. Crack those suckers open for a shortcut to electronics miniaturization

[manic latch]

What about full of modern ammo?

That's compatible of course

[desert agate]

you and what delivery device

[manic latch]

This

Change iPhone with modern military stuff

[spiral cedar]

Container ship full of PLA troops oh shit it's World In Conflict again

[manic latch]

Crew: Why this thing has made in China word

[eternal veldt]

Since we're going full unhinged

might as well send a container ship full of anime to Japan, Miyazaki's stuff

Tell them it's from the future, pacify the nation entirely

[thorn trail]

Wouldn't less sophisticated transistors be better for that since uh how would they study miniaturization if they physically can't see the design of the chip without the electron microscopes or smth?

[eternal veldt]

WW2 ended, yay

[tough quail]

or just go back to the original beat down wank

[spiral cedar]

Shhh, quantum mechanics doesn't exist

[tough quail]

tell germany to side with china

[eternal veldt]

Just keep shit like Konpeki no Kantai away from the containers

[tough quail]

laugh as the war ends in 1942 at the latest

[spiral cedar]

Container ship full of generic Isekai anime

[thorn trail]

That would let the Japanese commit seppuku with how trash they are

[solid mango]

Would still end the war

[manic latch]

God can't wait to get isekaid to NP world one day

[spiral cedar]

Then send it to the USSR

[eternal veldt]

Stalin Isekai anime

[spiral cedar]

Socialism with harem characteristics

[eternal veldt]

holy shit

[manic latch]

Hmm

Soviet Anime= Tankie Weebs= more simps for Soviet Union online forums

Good good

I support

[desert agate]

send them nuclear weapons so that doesnt happen

[manic latch]

Wonder how Soviets would use nukes

For Germany for sure. Or would they

[tough quail]

yes

[desert agate]

theyd have to steal them from the us first

[tough quail]

they'd just end up dying of radiation poisoning

[spiral cedar]

Might use one on Poland

[thorn trail]

Ok another shitty question that I'm just curious about: Everyone keeps talking about what if this country had nukes earlier or smth in WW2. Now what if nukes were given in WW1 instead?

[tough quail]

wake up poland its time for your annual ordinance test

[manic latch]

I mean Warsaw gets flattened with nukes or not in history

[thorn trail]

What would each power do with the nukes if they had the only nukes in ww1

[eternal veldt]

Fisher puts a nuke on one of his BCs, destroys the entire HSF at Jutland

[tough quail]

gnarly

[eternal veldt]

British permanent blockade, germoney starves to death

happy ending

[solid mango]

God damn it Fisher

[tough quail]

honestly unironically fisher is enough of a madman to probably figure out nuclear powered Admirals from one bomb

[desert agate]

the war really ends by christmas

[tough quail]

the man just looks at it and his brain expands into the universe

[manic latch]

🎄

[eternal veldt]

Wasn't he fucking around with diesels already in one of his incomparable plans?

alongside superstructureless ships

[tough quail]

yes, which is immeasurably based

[manic latch]

Yo yo

Give Gas Turbine engines to Fisher

[thorn trail]

How about the Germans and the French?

[spiral cedar]

Fisher would sail an old armored cruiser up Kiel and detonate its nuclear weapon on board to end Germany as a naval power for fifty years

[solid mango]

I really need me some Fisherium now

[tough quail]

GAS TURBINE MK IVs

[spiral cedar]

Always have more

[tough quail]

now THIS IS A BALTIC ADVENTURE

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/714401138463735818/image0.png

[tough quail]

YEEHAW

[thorn trail]

Ok but what about other nations

[spiral cedar]

Nukes fall, everyone dies

[manic latch]

Germany would nuke British first

[eternal veldt]

Northern France will be fucking inhospitable

[manic latch]

Then Stalingrad

[eternal veldt]

or the entirety of France, rather

[spiral cedar]

Nuclear zeppelin raids

[manic latch]

3000 nuclear Zeppelin

[thorn trail]

Oh I meant that only one nation had nukes in this scenario

[thorn trail]

Kirov Reporting!

[spiral cedar]

Ottomans have one (1) nuke in WWI

What happens

Let's say Fat Man equivalent

[manic latch]

Gallipoli Fleet?

Rip QE

[tough quail]

tbf the ships would probably be fine unless directly hit

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/714526710766501957/image0.png

[tough quail]

crossroads wasnt really devastating

[manic latch]

Crew radiation?

[tough quail]

yeah the crews are fucked

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/714336115653345361/image0.png

[eternal veldt]

Still amazed by how Fisher resigned

just straight up fucked off one day and nobody could find him

[spiral cedar]

Even his 2 weeks notice was fastest

2 seconds notice

[solid mango]

NO I need to ask for some Fisherium

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/714224555648090142/image0.png

[eternal veldt]

He was on a pretty high power trip by that point though

[tough quail]

fisher has left to become one with the universe

[thorn trail]

Another stupid ass question: How fucked is Tirpitz if instead of Tallboys the British somehow were able to dropped a modern Massive Ordinance Penetrator

[spiral cedar]

Instead of being sunk, she is sunk

[eternal veldt]

Didn't the Tallboys already literally punch clean through her and then explode?

[thorn trail]

Just a single MOP?

[remote monolith]

massively? MOPs break through meters of reinforced concrete

[eternal veldt]

Don't have Sirene's primary material, so:

A second hit amidships between the aircraft catapult and the funnel and caused severe damage. A very large hole was blown in the ship's side and bottom

[remote monolith]

it can literally drill nearly 100 meters into the ground before exploding

[spiral cedar]

Probably not, unless it hits somewhere very important. It's still a compartmentalized ship

But like 2-3 probably, though if the placement is very bad it might take a couple more

Talking in port ofc

At sea one is probably enough

[thorn trail]

Speaking of ship damage, how did many ships that were badly mangled still able to like move until a port and repaired (Mostly talking about Minne and the other US cruisers hit with Japanese torpedoes because I've seen pics of the damage and they looked fatal)

[eternal veldt]

Javelin

[spiral cedar]

The British report on Tirpitz's damage notes that the 3 Tallboys that did her in were pretty well situated to capsize her. Had they landed elsewhere it might have taken a few more. Not because she could resist the attacks, but because large compartmentalized ships in shallow water are a bitch to permanently sink

[desert agate]

HMS Zubian was 2 destroyers combined together

[eternal veldt]

There's a whole series of posters called "Damage control saved X"

https://www.navy.gov.au/media-room/publications/wwii-damage-control

[eternal veldt]

If you want it on the IJN side, may I present to you

[spiral cedar]

I'm not sure about the "still able to move" stipulation, as it would exclude towing

[eternal veldt]

bent duck

[spiral cedar]

(Thus excluding Amatsukaze)

[solid mango]

A duck

[eternal veldt]

but bent

look at the bow

[solid mango]

no, is very much part of plan, a raised bow design

[spiral cedar]

Clearly this is an Atlantic bow

[thorn trail]

my first thought was that's a cope slope

[eternal veldt]

Action:

• 2130 Sighted surfaced enemy submarine stalking; turned and made flank speed to ram. At 2153 torpedoed by USS NAUTILUS (SS-168). Two torpedoes hit the starboard side, one under the bridge and the other forward under No.2 turret, but the second was a dud. The first hit tore an eight-meter diameter hole in the side. No.1 boiler and starboard engine room flooded, keel severely strained, but able to steam at 20 knots; 14 dead and 63 injured, the latter including Admiral Kimura. Six 3.9" and 401 rounds of 25 mm. fired at submarine. The loss of integrity was considerable, for flooding extended fore-and-aft from frames 6 to 90 well beyond the torpedo hole and she is left well down at the bow. AKIZUKI had to resort to emergency steering to proceed.

[thorn trail]

Wait would a cope slope be helpful if they were ever put into WW2 carriers?

[eternal veldt]

Aoba was also shot up pretty badly

[solid mango]

You mean Atlanta right?

[eternal veldt]

Don't think so, especially with the use of Piston engine aircraft

[eternal veldt]

Thought Amatsukaze was able to steam on?

It's not healthy, sure

[thorn trail]

Ok not ww2 related but was there a plan of ANY nation to put a cope slope AND catapults together in a ship? (I'm thinking a catapult directly into a cope slope)

[delicate beacon]

I take it it isn't done because the cope slope takes up space from the catapult's length.

Essentially you get the worst of both worlds, like a Battlecarrier.

[eternal veldt]

sang, where are the funny dutch hybrid ship proposals?

give WG a reason to remove Gouden Leeuw, smh

[thorn trail]

Hybrid ship proposals? What's that

[eternal veldt]

Hybrid ship in this sense usually means a gunship with aviation features - i.e. Battlecarrier/Aviation battleships

[thorn trail]

Wait the dutch had battlecarrier proposals?

Where can I find info on them

[solid mango]

Basically Ise

[eternal veldt]

That's why I'm asking if there are any

The Dutch are clearly at the naval forefront with some plans for BBs already

[delicate beacon]

I have found foreign studies translated and Helfrich being Helfrich. But that's about it.

[eternal veldt]

aww.

[delicate beacon]

If any of those hybrids were a thing, it'd be more like a CVE + CL hybrid.

So like those USN CLVs

[eternal veldt]

Ok, got it, Eendracht with half a flight deck attached

coming to the Dutch Tree soon ™️

[thorn trail]

Were there any plans to make something like a Kiev class aircraft carrier but instead of being a missile guided cruiser it was a battleship

like with an angled flight deck

[manic latch]

What

You mean like Harrier carrier Iowa?

[thorn trail]

Something like this

[thorn trail]

Oh god that exists?!?!

as a plan?

[desert agate]

akagi had a very pronounced sloped deck

[manic latch]

Well yeah Iowa had shitload of plans during her refit plans

[tribal mortar]

in all real things... how we read like F4, F6F, etc

[desert agate]

furious also making another appearance

[thorn trail]

wait are those helicopter landing pads?

[eternal veldt]

Akagi's original plans were pretty wild.

[manic latch]

Ye

[thorn trail]

and are those boxes on the side tomahawk launchers?

[thorn trail]

this one

[desert agate]

boats

[thorn trail]

Oh lifeboats

[desert agate]

landing craft specifically

[thorn trail]

Wait wait

[manic latch]

Landing craft

[thorn trail]

so basically turn the Iowa into an LHD??!?!

Whut

What other conversion plans exist

[desert agate]

yes

[tough quail]

rad

oil tanker iowa oil tanker iowa

[desert agate]

16in guns for direct fire support of troops shes landing

[manic latch]

This is for Kentucky of 1956

[tribal mortar]

wait.... The reason F6F Hellcat is gold because of... the fact that they... DESTROYED 5000 ENEMY AIRCRAFTS?!

[delicate beacon]

Dutch 1946 BBG

[thorn trail]

@manic latch weren't there plans to turn the Iowa into something like a pure anti air BB?

[delicate beacon]

Oh no

Kentucky H

[manic latch]

That's the Des Moines turrets one

As quad turets

[solid mango]

Oh my

[eternal veldt]

The slopes in this case is to help with landings rather than take off, I believe

[manic latch]

@thorn trail

My favorite

[thorn trail]

Tanker

what the fuck

[eternal veldt]

There are also full on Iowa conversion into carriers

[thorn trail]

any blueprints?

[eternal veldt]

you bet.

[thorn trail]

How many planes was this expected to carry? Because I remember the Lexington's had a smaller air group than what a carrier of its size could carry due to being a converted Battlecruiser

[eternal veldt]

same for Alaska.

[thorn trail]

CVL?

or full blown CV?

[manic latch]

Assumed around 80s

[thorn trail]

Lower than the Midway then huh

[manic latch]

Essex

[thorn trail]

Was more comparing it to a ship of similar displacement

somewhat

[eternal veldt]

The capacity really depends on how much progress was made on the ship

In the case of ships like Shinano, which are at 50% completion, it's lollmao

Saratoga and Lexington both were good conversions

[manic latch]

Shinano can do +100 if wanted tho

[eternal veldt]

Enough time to gut the ships entirely

[manic latch]

Wide enough body

[eternal veldt]

No, 47 only

the other ones are carried as kits

[manic latch]

Because she is a support carrier

Not fleet carrier

Fleet carrier Shinano can do +100

[eternal veldt]

which may be assembled, but still not a fleet CV

In that case you might as well just build the G15s

[thorn trail]

this says 120 or something tho?

[manic latch]

Kits

[eternal veldt]

youtube video

Shinano a supercarrier

just no

Shinano had 47 planes because her hangar is only one level high - most IJN carriers had 2 decks

Her barbettes are also already installed, and its being used to house all types of aviation related shit rather than planes

[manic latch]

Shinano with Kaga style hangar would be bliss

[eternal veldt]

She'd fucking die with a two-level hangar with top instability

[thorn trail]

so the 120 planes more refer to planes that can be crammed into the deck

aka a glorified ferry then

[eternal veldt]

She's a mega Unicorn

that's it

[solid mango]

Right, who's daring enuf to make a full on carrier with the Yamato hull and isnt a Shinano

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/3Wz6ml1f5_I

[thorn trail]

The ship's organic air group was intended to consist of 18 Mitsubishi A7M Reppū (Allied reporting name "Sam") fighters (plus two in storage), 18 Aichi B7A Ryusei ("Grace") torpedo-dive bombers (plus two in storage), and 6 Nakajima C6N Saiun ("Myrt") reconnaissance aircraft (plus one in storage).[7] The remainder of the hangar space would have held up to 120 replacement aircraft for other carriers and land bases.[8]

Huh

[manic latch]

3 hour old video

[manic latch]

@thorn trail Just watch this

[thorn trail]

I already have like so many Drachinifel vids I am too lazy to watch so no

[manic latch]

Sigh

[eternal veldt]

The strange sight of a sailing rigged cutter on the boat deck of HMS Revenge, 1940.

[thorn trail]

What's the context of this pic? Why is the cutter there?

[eternal veldt]

Cutters are normally on ships for disembarkation/embarkation on land/other ships

This here is probably a drilling of rigging a boat if things go wrong - not exactly described, hence strange.

[fierce sparrow]

https://twitter.com/ConeOfArc/status/1606555701429485568
https://twitter.com/Chieftain_armor/status/1606657046006333474

ConeOfArc (@ConeOfArc)

I'd love to see if @Chieftain_armor could fit in this if only one were still around...

Twitter · Dec 24, 2022, 7:41 AM

Nicholas Moran (@Chieftain_armor)

@ConeOfArc Track tension has a slightly different meaning on that one

Twitter · Dec 24, 2022, 2:24 PM

"Tracks"

[tough quail]

da

future science

[manic latch]

You can put t34 turret on anything

[fierce sparrow]

Ohno...

[thorn trail]

Wait what 2 ships are those

[alpine onyx]

Lützow to an extent, she ate a nearby Tallboy, got a 55° list, but they managed to right her

But she wasn't fully repaired, because late war Germany

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etti1shXQEI&feature=youtu.be

The ship survived an air raid unscathed on the 13th, but a five-ton bomb dropped by a British Lancaster which achieved a nearmiss on the 16th opened up 30m of the Ship’s side and she assumed a 56-degree list. Two 1,000lb bombs which hit the forward and aft 28cm magazines failed to explode. With the help of salvage vessels the ship was restored to an even keel before electrical plant 4, the starboard 15cm gunhouses and ‘A’ turret were pumped dry. The guns were tested on 28 April, after which ‘A’ turret resumed the bombardment of Soviet land forces.

[spring briar]

Merry Christmas to everyone

May many new blueprints be upon ye

[manic latch]

🎄

[delicate beacon]

Mele Kalikimaka

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ3KLkJxhzU

[tribal mortar]

name me a gear that is gold but in all actuality based on history it should be a grey/blue/purple

or if that is a rainbow, it is also deserved to be in a grey/blue/purple if not for game's gimmicks

[somber knoll]

Douglas BTD-1 but more in the case of game's bomb calculation being ass

[delicate beacon]

Pompoms

Twin 4,7" QF Mk. XI
Twin 100mm Type 98
Triple 410mm
Twin 380mm SK C34
Twin 410mm
Ju 87
Barracuda?
Triple 25mm shield
Probably the IJN 100/127 AA

[manic latch]

Triple 25mm shield

[manic latch]

Type 625E SHORAD

Jesus this fucking thing is sexy

Please Gaijin

[tough quail]

thats rad

[spring briar]

[shrewd pecan]

Sorry another copy and paste Soviet AA vehicle we gave to the Chinese first

[somber knoll]

almost all of those that Sang mentioned have their purple or below counterparts so I probably won't complain.

also the twin 410 is all purple, unless we talk about the Sanshikidan variant that is clearly a grey gear

For the Junkers, with the exception of the D prototype carrier variant made somehow into a torpedo bomber to make it convenient to use all 3 the Graf Zeppelins and Parseval, is self-explanatory.

All the rainbow gear so far has been the cream of the crop. tho with some exception like the German quintuple magnetic torpedo or the Japanese Type 95 sub torpedo but I would argue with the latter.

[alpine onyx]

This is a crime

Especially because the C/30 gets purple

[somber knoll]

shouldn't exist?

or rarity up?

[tribal mortar]

Hmmmm... Holy, thanks for the info...

[alpine onyx]

Way up

A 37mm gun that effectively pushes 150 rpm? Definitely higher than blue

[shrewd pecan]

Tho I do look forward to when China gets the Taiwanese mini van with AIM9X equivalents

[tough quail]

party truck

[shrewd pecan]

👁️

if the F-4J is this good

I look forward to annoying everyone with the tomcat radar

[lapis wraith]

History in the past has show multi turreted tanks are an failure for multiple reasons but the main reason was the amount of crew required and the bad communication, with today technology of telecomended stuff, does you guys think multi turreted tanks will be bringed back, like two machine gun turret on a main battle tank controlled by an person telecommending them

[shrewd pecan]

I don't consider modern RWSs the equivalent of multi turreted tanks

its just the natural evolution of roof mounted machine guns

[lapis wraith]

Me too but could we bring back multi turreted tanks or it's so much of an heavy trash ?

[shrewd pecan]

next gen tanks (such as the EMBT here) are already moving towards having two RWSs

in regards to multi turreted tanks

what is really the point?

your either gonna have to sacrifice the quality of the main armament

[lapis wraith]

Yep that's an multi turreted tank for me

[shrewd pecan]

or make a stupidly large tank that runs into maus like issues

if you want to do a multi turreted tank in the classical sense

your better off just using all of that room to make a better autoloader for the main armament

[lapis wraith]

On paper, having more than one turret sounds good

[shrewd pecan]

not really

even on paper your sacrificing your main armament

for one of lesser power

and more overall internal volume

again I don't consider machine gun RWSs the equivalent of multi turreted tanks

[lapis wraith]

It was before but technology it's advancing, we could see multi turret on lighter tanks or vehicles like IFV

[shrewd pecan]

again

more internal volume

for lesser armament

you're better off doing something like the HSTV-L

where you have a autoloader capable of getting shots off every 0.6 seconds

[lapis wraith]

Is it using HEAT rounds ?

[shrewd pecan]

APFSDS and proxy fuze HE

out of its 75 it was able to receive equivalent penetration as 105 MM APFSDS of the time

while having the stupid firing rate

[lapis wraith]

Yeah I see

[shrewd pecan]

having multiple turrets overly complicates the tank

[lapis wraith]

Im just an fan of fortress on wheels

[shrewd pecan]

makes the turrets have to compete for firing arcs

and reduces what you can use as a main armament if you want the tank to be a reasonable weight

alongside reducing overall ammo loads

on top of that it complicates fire control

[lapis wraith]

I'm just seeing multi turreted tank as the equivalent of IFV but heavier

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but why do you want

a stupidly heavy IFV?

[lapis wraith]

It's sounded good in my head

[shrewd pecan]

on top of that

[lapis wraith]

And you could have two gun firing at two target

[shrewd pecan]

it would be a stupidly heavy IFV

unable to carry infantry

[thorn trail]

what tank is this

[shrewd pecan]

its a experimental Russian SPG that used dual 152s

[thorn trail]

what's the name?

[shrewd pecan]

it was determined single was better since the duals were inaccurate

[lapis wraith]

One shooting infantry and the other shooting other tanks

[thorn trail]

Oh nvm it's an experimental Mista

*Msta

[shrewd pecan]

what do you

imagine with multi turrets

this?

[lapis wraith]

Yes this

[thorn trail]

that's insanely stupid tho

[shrewd pecan]

yeah you have a stupidly heavy tank

[thorn trail]

you are like limiting the space inside the tank

[shrewd pecan]

that's sacrificing a lot of capability

[lapis wraith]

Like the t34 but with télécommanded turret

Like an drone

[thorn trail]

also how are you gonna armor all the turrets properly without getting ammo racked and like kaboom

[shrewd pecan]

I wouldn't consider modern RWSs

the equivalent of the multi turreted tanks

[tough quail]

i mean

it is the equivalent

[lapis wraith]

The machine gun turret doesn't need that much armor

[tough quail]

its just actually good now

[thorn trail]

Also aren't RWSs mostly for anti drone or something?

[shrewd pecan]

multitude of things

ranging from infantry to anti aircraft

[lapis wraith]

Yes that's what I thinked

[thorn trail]

then why not just go RSWs then

[shrewd pecan]

you have the 30 MM RWSs that are in the works

[thorn trail]

why have it be in a turret at all

[shrewd pecan]

I mean that's what he's proposing

but he's going at it from the angle of multi turreted tanks

over a modern tank with a remote machine gun

[lapis wraith]

Because he keep telling me RSW aren't equivalent to multi turreted tank

[shrewd pecan]

multi turret implies

you're smacking multiple turrets on the tank

that are meant to have people inside of them

over just a RWS on the roof

[lapis wraith]

Because its meant to have people inside the turret ?

[thorn trail]

Then why do you need to have it multi turret instead of you know being a remotely controlled gun in the first place?

[tough quail]

that's still a turret though

its just not a full enclosed one

[shrewd pecan]

its terminology soup

[tough quail]

it's multi-turret

its just not shit

[shrewd pecan]

and he's trying to compare it to the interwar multi turrets

which I don't really think is a accurate description

[tough quail]

they're trying to do similar things - it just wasnt feasible then

[shrewd pecan]

since that implies we never abandoned multiple turrets

[thorn trail]

If multi turret tanks ever come back and exist, they should make this tank lol

[lapis wraith]

We abandoned then revive them

[shrewd pecan]

multi turreted tanks

[tough quail]

i mean

yes

[lapis wraith]

Kind of yes

[tough quail]

its an extra MG turret that doesnt suck

[lapis wraith]

But it isn't armored

[tough quail]

also the US literally had those machine gun cupolas post-ww2

[shrewd pecan]

multi turret tank

[lapis wraith]

Yeah totally

[tough quail]

whoch is 100% a turret

[thorn trail]

again why. just make it a remote weapons system. No need to armor it

also wouldn't need more crew then

[lapis wraith]

That's more what I'm talking about

[tough quail]

that is OBJECTIVELY a multi-turret

[shrewd pecan]

idk I just don't consider it the equivalent of inter war multi turreted tanks

since that is just the commanders cupola

[tough quail]

turned into a turret

[shrewd pecan]

like I get it

you can argue it is

[thorn trail]

Wait what tank is this anyway? Soviet tank right?

[shrewd pecan]

but I don't think its accurate to describe it as interwar thinking

[lapis wraith]

I just imagined an normal main battle tank with an HE turret bellow or on top

[shrewd pecan]

man has never seen a M60

[shrewd pecan]

???

[thorn trail]

I mostly assume round looking tanks are Soviet kek

[tough quail]

thats like the least soviet thing there is

[shrewd pecan]

what is solely loading HE these days

[lapis wraith]

Two anti tank turret on top of each other

[tough quail]

you can tell its mid cold war american because its fucking enormous

[shrewd pecan]

you do know that tank guns don't just fire

one round right?

[lapis wraith]

Its kinda racist but the crews look more slavic than anglo saxons

[lapis wraith]

I know

[lapis wraith]

I aleardy seen the Swedish tank with auto canon

[shrewd pecan]

the 40 MM bushmaster one

[lapis wraith]

Stg I forgot number

[shrewd pecan]

STRV-2000

[lapis wraith]

Yeah it's in war thunder I think

[shrewd pecan]

its not

since only the mock up existed

[lapis wraith]

No it didn't have an movable turret

[shrewd pecan]

the STRV-103 didn't have a 40 MM

only a 105

there's not even room to mount a 40 MM on the STRV-103

[lapis wraith]

For me it has an anti tank canon

[shrewd pecan]

it has a 105 MM L7

[thorn trail]

isn't it basically a tank destroyer

[shrewd pecan]

no its a tank

its intended to be a tank

in doctrine and design

[thorn trail]

terminology wise what's the difference between a tank destroyer and a tank?

[shrewd pecan]

Tank destroyer doesn't have a coaxial machine gun

beyond that there's no real set definition

[thorn trail]

doctrinally? what do tank destroyers do differently?

[shrewd pecan]

US wise

there meant be held in reserve and sent forward to destroy enemy armored pushes

[thorn trail]

So basically a way to blunt enemy armored spearheads?

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/7ho8TU_JpoI?list=PLd65nEfwevC-jIQ0xhk-22X7SkbMHirQK

yes

[lapis wraith]

I'm not a tank expert and only asked myself the multi turret question after watching an coneofarc vid on the neubafahzeug

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of how that godforsaken tank did things

it would not work

profiles too high and the design of the tank is far too awkward to incorporate modern armor and other principles

there's a reason why it failed alongside other multi turreted tanks

[lapis wraith]

Crew communication

[shrewd pecan]

its better to just have

one turret

with one primary armament

then just smack a RWS or two on the roof for anti infantry or anti aircraft

[thorn trail]

@shrewd pecan stupid question but how possible is it to have lick an anti tank missile mount like a TOW on the turret of a tank as like another weapon to be used against tanks?

[shrewd pecan]

you can

but why would you?

APFSDS is going to be far better at doing the job

[lapis wraith]

You could have an multi task tank instead of one IFV, one MBT and one AAA

[shrewd pecan]

on top of that why not just go with a gun fired missile instead if you can't get good enough APFSDS performance

yeah but what's carrying the infantry?

[thorn trail]

Don't IFVs like do different roles than tanks

[lapis wraith]

Not everyone can afford missiles

[shrewd pecan]

if you get rid of the IFV

you lose the infantry support

and why are you putting your anti aircraft missiles at the front?

[thorn trail]

I think he's thinking of something like a CIWS

which is frankly still stupid

[shrewd pecan]

I mean 30 MM RWS for anti drone duty isn't the worse idea

but intending it as a SHORAD platform is just stupid over something the tank can do in a jam

[thorn trail]

at this point you're just overcomplicating the tank, right?

[lapis wraith]

I'm just thinking of an modern T 36

[shrewd pecan]

I mean 30 MM RWS is perfectly doable

[lapis wraith]

But with télécommanded turret, is that so much to understand?

I'll make a drawing to make you understand what I'm talking about

[shrewd pecan]

stacking turrets makes the thing impossible to armor effectively without it weighting 100+ tons and being stupidly big

[thorn trail]

he did say that "it's a machine gun turret, why need to armor it much"

[shrewd pecan]

he's going down the

stacking turrets route

[thorn trail]

here

[shrewd pecan]

like this

[thorn trail]

Yeah that's honestly stupid af

[shrewd pecan]

it sacrifices both turret space in the main turret

combined with making the tank harder to armor

[lapis wraith]

Yeah but the secondary turret are radio commanded

[thorn trail]

the armor profile is gonna be interesting as fuck because how the fuck do you armor that without becoming overweight like fuck

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but how are you armoring the hull

when it has a to be a flat slab

[thorn trail]

again why not just go RWS on top of the main turret then?

[shrewd pecan]

to fit those turrets in the front

on top of that

[thorn trail]

Why does it need to be a secondary remote controlled front turret?

[shrewd pecan]

how are you going to fit any reasonable armament on the main turret

or get any reasonable depression

out of the main gun

[lapis wraith]

For more firepower instead of autocanon

[shrewd pecan]

so your

[thorn trail]

I honestly can't see where this will go without it being needlessly big as fuck or lacking armament for its size

[shrewd pecan]

limiting the main gun's overall size

[lapis wraith]

Yes

[shrewd pecan]

and the amount of armor you can get on the tank

for

a turret at the front of the hull

that has a limited firing arc

and can't really do much

[thorn trail]

then what the fuck are you supposed to do when you are fighting a tank then with a gimped cannon?

for its size

if you are limiting the gun size?!?!

[lapis wraith]

If the main cannon is destroyed, you have another one !

[shrewd pecan]

if the main turret is knocked out I'm either bailing out of the tank or getting the fuck out of there

[thorn trail]

you seriously think you can fit a good enough cannon on the front turret

that can replace the main turret?

[lapis wraith]

Not that

[shrewd pecan]

👁️ ammos cooking off and the tanks on fire

[lapis wraith]

Well its good for retreat

[shrewd pecan]

TIME TO KEEP FIGHTING

no its not

[thorn trail]

also if the main gun is hit then the front turret is definitely cooked as well

[lapis wraith]

Bro I'm not an modern tank expert

Neither an past one

[shrewd pecan]

why are you pushing this idea that failed in the past

[thorn trail]

good for retreat
tank breaks down due to being overly complicated due to having a front turret

[shrewd pecan]

and will fail for the same reasons today

[lapis wraith]

It's sounded better in my head

[shrewd pecan]

like the closest I can even think of what your suggesting in concept is a Israeli heavy APC that only did it because it needed a tower for observation purposes

[thorn trail]

*complications with having another turret at the front

[lapis wraith]

But I won't go further

[lapis wraith]

Wtf is that, it's look like the FSA modified an tank IDF gifted them

[shrewd pecan]

its the Nagmachon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagmachon

[tribal mortar]

what?! okay...

[thorn trail]

why does that look like a bunker was strapped on top of a tank

[shrewd pecan]

it basically is

[thorn trail]

oh really? huh interesting

[shrewd pecan]

its a centurion

converted to a APC

that they later slapped the super structure on

[tough quail]

THE O B E L I S K

[lapis wraith]

This look shitty and useless, so that's what look like modern multi turreted tanks

Honestly kinda lame

[shrewd pecan]

to give it a protected observation point

it has 2 FN MAGs in the super structure

[lapis wraith]

Oh I see

[thorn trail]

Speaking of Israel tanks: What the heck is the Namer supposed to be

[shrewd pecan]

a heavy APC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namer

[lapis wraith]

Some short of Jewish mythology idk

[shrewd pecan]

type of fighting Israel does

usually points towards t he use of heavier platforms

able to take fire if needed

[tough quail]

gotta be well defended against the rocks getting thrown at it

[shrewd pecan]

alongside the mines and kornets

[thorn trail]

Yeah I know it's an APC but what's the idea behind it because honestly sounds stupid as fuck taking a tank and turning it into an IFV

[lapis wraith]

Wtf is that, its look like ISIS modified an humvee gifted by Obama

[shrewd pecan]

its meant to replace their lightly armored M113s that kept getting blown up by mines and RPGs

[thorn trail]

But why develop it using a tank hull instead of a new hull ala Bradley?

[tough quail]

cheaper

[shrewd pecan]

because the hull already exists

[lapis wraith]

Ok I understood, multi turreted tank is stupid and should stay in their tomb, I won't go further

[shrewd pecan]

it has commonality with their tanks

[tough quail]

also a bradley is armored like a wet fart in comparison

[thorn trail]

Isn't the Namer even more armored than the Merkava?

[shrewd pecan]

also I don't think a bradley would fair well in Hamas Kornet land

[lapis wraith]

Idk I seen both of them destroyed

[shrewd pecan]

Namer hasn't had a combat loss

Merkava's suffered a few

[tough quail]

every tank can and will be destroyed in actual conflict

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

[lapis wraith]

So it wasn't an namer

[tough quail]

if it hasnt suffered a loss yet it just havent been deployed often enough to

[tough quail]

what the fuck is it with merkavas and their guns falling off

[shrewd pecan]

the gun got knocked off by a Kornet

[tough quail]

[thorn trail]

tbh the Namer sounds like my philosophy when making a ship in UAD: Tiny guns but thicc ass armor

[lapis wraith]

Idk there was that Israeli tank in Lebanon that got blow up during the 2006 invasion

[tough quail]

thats just some goofy war thunder shit

[shrewd pecan]

it was that one battle

in which

a bunch of Merkava's got damaged

but none were actually destroyed

[lapis wraith]

Damaged beyond repair

[shrewd pecan]

nope

all returned to service

[lapis wraith]

Damnit

[shrewd pecan]

tho a few got ammo racked in other parts of the war

[thorn trail]

@shrewd pecan is the Merkava autoloaded or not?

or does it use a manual loader?

[shrewd pecan]

merkava IV has a semi autoloader

[thorn trail]

wdym by semi autoloader

explain

[shrewd pecan]

where there's still a loader but the semi autoloader hands the loader the round

idk the Merkava doesn't have the best ammo storage solution

its how this type of thing keeps happening

[lapis wraith]

Yeah 20 tanks damaged beyond repair

[thorn trail]

no blowout panels?

[shrewd pecan]

IV has blowout panels

[tough quail]

not the best more like

"literal fucking nightmare"

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but horse

every tank but the abrams

[thorn trail]

so basically a dispenser for the loader? kek

[shrewd pecan]

has the nightmare ammo storage solutions

[lapis wraith]

So that's how it get blown up by IED easily

[thorn trail]

What makes the Abrams different?

[shrewd pecan]

at least Merkava has the storage in the rear

unlike the leopard 2

[shrewd pecan]

all of its ammo is stored in armored blowout panel protected compartments

[thorn trail]

Is that ammo on the fucking front of the tank?

[lapis wraith]

Welp i gtg, I have stuff to do

Merry Christmas

[thorn trail]

Huh. But at the cost of being heavy because of the compartmentalization of the tank?

with each compartment being armored and such?

[shrewd pecan]

no tank was just designed with it in mind

[thorn trail]

Why did other tanks not follow this procedure?

[shrewd pecan]

multiple reasons

[tough quail]

it's not really a golden solution

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but its far better than anything else right now horse in regards to abrams

[thorn trail]

reasons such as?

[tough quail]

im answering why the entire world isnt rushing to adopt it

[shrewd pecan]

usage of internal space

[thorn trail]

What else?

[shrewd pecan]

if you look at where the abrams stores its fuel

[thorn trail]

What's the problem?

[shrewd pecan]

the fuels stored in the front of the hull

[thorn trail]

I don't see it at first glance

[thorn trail]

Oh what that red thing means fuel right? Oh...

[shrewd pecan]

yes

[thorn trail]

Wait which is worse: The fuel at the front or the ammo at the front like the Leopard 2

[shrewd pecan]

ammo at the front

[thorn trail]

Because it's less likely to combust and explode?

[shrewd pecan]

if the ammo gets hit you go down with the tank

Leopard 2 also gives the commander much more space to work with

you can also just

not carry ammo in the suicide rack

[thorn trail]

Aw wait I forgot I asked which was worse. I thought I asked which was better

[thorn trail]

So tanks don't always carry a full set of ammo?

[tough quail]

aye

[thorn trail]

do they like prioritize APSFSDS rounds or more multipurpose rounds?

Because iirc don't they carry multiple types of rounds?

[shrewd pecan]

depends on what they plan on fighting

[thorn trail]

so enemy scouting is important as fuck then

[shrewd pecan]

US for example usually just loads equal amounts of APFSDS and MPAT (heat with a proxy fuze warhead)

[thorn trail]

does the use have a HESH round?

[shrewd pecan]

no

you can't do HESH with a smoothbore

tho the Stryker and the MPF have HESH for the 105 for anti structure work

[thorn trail]

isn't the Stryker MGS being withdrawn from service?

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

but MPF will have it once it enters service

[thorn trail]

MPF smoothbore or rifled?

[shrewd pecan]

it has the American L7 so rifled

[thorn trail]

only the british use a rifled gun now right? most other nations went with smoothbore right?

[shrewd pecan]

everyone uses Smoothbore and the brits are making the transition to smoothbore with chally 3 rn

[thorn trail]

Ah

ok ok

[shrewd pecan]

anyway regarding MGS's retirement and MPF

[thorn trail]

@shrewd pecan Thank you for answering all my questions. gtg sleep now. Sorry if it was annoying asking all those questions

[shrewd pecan]

you have to consider two things

(one last point I make here)

[thorn trail]

I'm listening

[shrewd pecan]

with the army going back to divisions

Stryker brigades are going to paired up with armored brigades

what is the point of the MGS if you have two brigades worth of Bradleys and Abrams to call upon

[thorn trail]

wait the US army reorganization is the one where they have heavy and penetration divisions right?

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

Stryker brigades are basically able to enable the armor by providing additional mechanized infantry alongside freeing up armored units from tasks the strykers are more suited for

combined with the fact the Strykers can now get direct armored support from the armored brigades and don't need the MGS anymore

compare that to the new infantry organization

where their only option is MPF

[thorn trail]

ooo interesting. Anyways really got to go. Thank you very much for all this info

[tough quail]

bruh

[kindred reef]

what the abrams doing

[shrewd pecan]

training

[tough quail]

the first one is just a bunch of Abrams doing a co-op run of resident evil 4

[maiden citrus]

I read this as him becoming a nuclear powered cyborg

[kindred reef]

that just looks like a torpedo with a mast

[junior trench]

less

Leo 2 has less space for the TC and gunner because of the gunner's sight and FCS placement

as well as the berlin wall turret dividing grate

fuel up front is also a benefit in terms of armor

it helps provide the frontal arc protection

[ivory ridge]

Tf there isnt an english Wikipedia page for the SLC

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Alexandria_(1941)

[junior trench]

the Leo 2 turret rack also still totals the tank because the bulkhead separating the ammo from the electronics behind the TC isn't fire rated

so the ammo fire burns through

sets the electronics on fire, and then sets the rest of the tank on fire

something we know happens courtesy of the Turks

real life also isn't war thunder

[kindred reef]

Finland begging Germany to sell them their bad kitty-cat mbt instead of just buying the abrams or leclerc or anything else

[junior trench]

Germany was selling them for nothing once the Cold War ended

and Leclerc has its own weirdo shit

with the same suicide racks

but an even weirder engine

[kindred reef]

yeah but id rather have 500 good tanks than 1000 faulty ones

[junior trench]

Leclerc uses a diesel as the primary with a turbine as the APU

which is... the opposite of how you're supposed to do that

[kindred reef]

the leclerc sounds worse than the leopard 2

[junior trench]

it's also armor limited due to France's needs for it to be deployable on short notice to Africa for colonialism expeditionary warfare

[kindred reef]

who would win t90 or leopard 2?

[junior trench]

who knows

but taking averages based off actual use and which models are prevalent

the Leo 2 never arrives

and the T-90 dies to infantry

[kindred reef]

broken down?

[junior trench]

never worked in the first place

[kindred reef]

is the leopard 2 that bad?

[junior trench]

it's been left to rot

since the cold war ended

[kindred reef]

what about 2a7?

[junior trench]

barely exists

and is a rebuild on said same rotting leftovers

cannibalizing older working tanks

to make a working "new" tank

[kindred reef]

and isnt elon musk building a german tank?

[manic latch]

What

[kindred reef]

i thought i heard something about that