modern ships are our speciality
#history
spring briar
autumn sorrel
It will sheer right through from bow to stern.
spring briar
until it detonates somewhere near the engine room
autumn sorrel
If it have contact fuze then well, bye bye DD
spring briar
and bb caliber splinters start fanning out
SAP is more of a nightmare to DD's compared to HE depending on the fuze
but then again in some navies the difference between HE and SAP is just a question of preference
eternal veldt
Either way, why don't we spin the original topic around a bit
spring briar
no
autumn sorrel
Back to Halsey?
eternal veldt
Most idiotic/incompetent admirals you dont want to serve with, go
spring briar
Darlan
eternal veldt
Unsurprising from you 
autumn sorrel
Didn’t Gensoul neglect to tell the gov about the other options of sailing to America
eternal veldt
I think Kurita is judged slightly too harshly
Guy lost his flagship, had to swim for his life, then didn't have sleep IIRC for 3 days straight, then getting mixed reports of facing what appears to be the 3rd fleet
Keyword being slightly.
spring briar
Didn’t Gensoul neglect to tell the gov about the other options of sailing to Ame...
Gensoul had also proposed to disarme his ships in place, but this option was rejected by Churchil
where Gensoul's fault does show up here is that this was the only honorable option he would consider at that time (considering the franco german treaty, darlan's orders and the distance of british ships)
autumn sorrel
Gensoul had also proposed to disarme his ships in place, but this option was rej...
I disagree, he was in contact with Vichy gov at the time. US is still neutral so it still seem to be a better choice then most.
spring briar
Guy lost his flagship, had to swim for his life, then didn't have sleep IIRC for...
who was the other admiral with him again?
spring briar
I disagree, he was in contact with Vichy gov at the time. US is still neutral so...
I am literally quoting a study
that investigated it
eternal veldt
who was the other admiral with him again?
Nishimura and Shima was to the south through Surigao Strait, Ozawa baits Halsey to the North
autumn sorrel
But does he relay all of British demands or the ones he feel need to?
eternal veldt
Kurita was the sole leader for the Centre Force through San Bernandino Strait
Nishimura was KIA after WeeVee and Oldendorf shat on him, Shima turned back
spring briar
But does he relay all of British demands or the ones he feel need to?
as I said, considering all the options given to him, Darlan's order, the franco german treaty and the distance of the british ships the only honorable option to him was to disarm his ships
autumn sorrel
Kurita was the sole leader for the Centre Force through San Bernandino Strait
Well, tbf for Kurita. The action of Taffy 3 defy all normal logic with their suicidal charge, it would unnerved Kurita and make he think about what the enemy have that he do not know.
eternal veldt
Thats why I said slightly too harshly
Given his mental condition after Atago just went down in minutes at Palawan
I'd originally rank Nagumo fairly highly on the incompetence chart, but seeing his dilemma, I guess I see his difficulty
But as Montemayor said, why bother to close to surface action range with Hiryu after losing 3 carriers already 
spring briar
@autumn sorrel
you know it's easy for britain to make "no seperate peace" agreements when they're not on the continent
just saying
and sailing the ships to the US was never an option because of German air power lol
eternal veldt
Fix your fucking ACAD then, smh
spring briar
eternal veldt
eternal veldt
Yes.
spring briar
and fixing german public mentality over versailles
instead of making it seem like some indomitable hurdle
eternal veldt
Make Versailles harsher, ez, smh
spring briar
helping china out earlier
making stalin realize that not everything is as it seems
oh
getting Sweden to stop exporting steel
mistakes were made
Btw minor faction
alpine onyx
Eww Naval Encyclopedia
alpine onyx
And I always will
that page is mostly junk
"modern 6in guns on Agano"
also fix German mentality, so we can enjoy another generation of Deutschlands and Scharnhorsts
and be wholesome
alpine onyx
true, a more pacifist Germany might not go for Scharnhorsts
so Deutschlands
all the way
wait what?
how?
eternal veldt
Dont ask me, ask that trashville of a website
eternal veldt
Yarp
alpine onyx
I'll suffer later
spring briar
Pacifist germany would just go for Zenker’s coastal defence babies
alpine onyx
Deutschlands are coastal defense
no one specified what coast
could also mean South America
spring briar
Also, France has no radar
Does navency say that?
eternal veldt
Yes
alpine onyx
I mean
eternal veldt
Photos are also mislabelled, causing someone to miss my guess the ship entirely
alpine onyx
they kinda did do coastal defence in Spain
eternal veldt
🚮
spring briar
they kinda did do coastal defence in Spain
Yeah and your tank force did civilian defence hmmm
autumn sorrel
<@634401798253445132>
That was informing, we can all agree that Churchill also hold most of the blame in this. I guess I can boil down to this, I held Gensoul responsibility because he was the commanding officer and as the commanding officer, he was in charge of the fleet and his men well-being. I held the long belief that Gensoul failure to correctly relay information led to the tragedy. But in light of your information, he is more like a tragic character who want to serve his nation and government to the best of his ability, the circumstances at the time was certainly hard for him. Maybe they could have come to a compromise like when Cunningham disobey Churchill to make his own terms bit it was in hindsight. I guess I was too hard on him.
alpine onyx
then again, the K-class did those too (just don't tell Drach, he wouldn't believe it)
spring briar
German colonies:
alpine onyx
banana shower
spring briar
POV: british DD’s at Jutland
And french dds at casablanca
German dds at narvik
Usn dds at honda point
eternal veldt
Reefs arent exactly the same as a shell...
Either way Riche
Enjoy this shitshow
"Beyond the Myth" more like "Beyond the citations"
autumn sorrel
Charge your phone, damnit!
eternal veldt
Hermes was never real
alpine onyx
Just how
eternal veldt
This site deserves a nuke
alpine onyx
How do you get "never fully operational" from a ship doing non-stop operations for over a year?
eternal veldt
There's other spicy takes, like this one:
On Hipper:
"Their silhouette recalled the Scharnhorst battleships in reduction, but still at launch they were the most powerful cruisers in the world."
eternal veldt
Aha, found him
Charles René Magon de Médine
selon le témoignage du général Lauriston, présent à cette bataille, Magon hurlait après l'amiral et jetait dans sa direction « tout ce qu'il trouva sous la main, sa lunette, son porte-voix et jusqu'à sa perruque
according to the testimony of General Lauriston , present at this battle [Battle of Cape Finisterre], Magon was yelling at the admiral and threw in his direction “ everything he found at hand, his telescope , his megaphone and even his wig.
manic latch
<:MurmWat:839635014256951296>
Tsar navy to Dutch: Teach boat
Later France: Teach Boat
Soviet Union to British, US, France, Italy, Germany: Teach boat
Later
Italy best Fren teached boat
Soviet Union to China: Am also teacher now so I Teach boat to you
spring briar
Tsar navy to Dutch: Teach boat
Later France: Teach Boat
Soviet Union to British...
motherfucker we allied you in the 7 years war
we industrialized Ukraine for you
we inspired your revolution
we brought enlightenment for you
we died on the great square for you
we built ships for you
manic latch
motherfucker we allied you in the 7 years war
we industrialized Ukraine for you
...
Then you supported Whites 
manic latch
Well Rich, because you supported the Whites, the Red Government started a new page with knowledge on this matter that you tried to defeat them. Not a good start is it
spring briar
well krem
we burned moscow because it was funny
but you also
burned moscow
moscow just likes burning
manic latch
She is a hot city indeed
alpine onyx
<:MurmWat:839635014256951296>
spring briar
how can you beat 150mm belt
the only advantage is maybe accuracy and french magic AP
manic latch
As for Algerie and Zara. Both has amazing butts so it's hard to choose
spring briar
Algérie obv
alpine onyx
According to Drach, Italian shells won't hit anything anyway
spring briar
alpine onyx
also 150mm barbettes and turret faces
second thickest turret faces on a European cruiser
spring briar
tough quail
limitless rage
manic latch
Why Algerie is weaker when it was designed as a response to Zara
manic latch
Cringe
spring briar
there aren't that many counters
alpine onyx
Algerie counts as a counterpart
eternal veldt
Does Yamato count
alpine onyx
Tho Zara armor weak, was defeated at Matapan
eternal veldt
Counter the US standards
tough quail
the French actually bothered following the treaty they were part of and made with ease the best treaty cruiser doing it
spring briar
I know algérie is a good cruiser because some people form their entire personality around disproving Algérie as being the best treaty cruiser
manic latch
Counter the US standards
Stalin's way of response was: Make the ship bigger and better than the ships it should fight against.
Tho Kronshtadt was a little problematic because of Scharnhorst and Dunkerques
spring briar
alpine onyx
I'll stick to New Orleans
eternal veldt
Stalin's way of response was: Make the ship bigger and better than the ships it ...
Yes, that's what the IJN thought as well
manic latch
Ain't Germans too?
manic latch
Doesn't have the butt of Algerie so
tough quail
nawlins is probably my runner up
spring briar
Noleans also has half a decade of further upgrades
manic latch
nawlins is probably my runner up
If Only Soviets build Super Streoid Kirov as Project X Multipurpose Reconnaissance Heavy Cruiser
Project "X" was designed on the standard displacement of at least 15,518 tonnes & about 17,350 tonnes on full load displacement. In terms of ship hull dimension, it would be 233.6 m in length, 22.3 m in width & 6.6 m in waterline draft. Armed with 4 x 3 - 240 mm/60 main guns; supplemented with 6 x 2 - 130 mm/50 B-2LM twin gun deck turrets, 2 x 3 - 533 mm triple torpedo tubes, 6 x 1 - 45 mm/46 21-K AA cannons & 4 x 1 - 12.7x108 mm DShK heavy machine guns.
spring briar
If only France had scaled up the Galissonieres made the saint louis' quicker
tough quail
that's about as much of a treaty cruiser as like
manic latch
also krem I don't hold russia's choices against you
Red Army took everything from Navy 
tough quail
spee
manic latch
that's about as much of a treaty cruiser as like
Soviet Union: What treaty
alpine onyx
Spee was 12,000 tons standard, so not that far off
autumn sorrel
240mm, what caliber is that?
alpine onyx
Deutschland with 10,600 can work tho
spring briar
240mm, what caliber is that?
9.4"
manic latch
240mm, what caliber is that?
Improvement over 180mm don't ya think
Belt - 115 mm
Deck - 75 mm
Barbette - 115 mm
Conning tower - 100 - 150 mm
Main turret - 75 - 115 mm
B-2LM turret - 50 mm
Bulkhead - 115 mm
manic latch
mostly given it presumably has an actual gunhouse
Can carry at least 9 planes
autumn sorrel
Belt - 115 mm
Deck - 75 mm
Barbette - 115 mm
Conning tower - 100 - 150 mm
Ma...
Isn’t that a bit thin?
eternal veldt
for 15k tons it's pretty good.
manic latch
Isn’t that a bit thin?
Kirov class had 50mm so
Big improvement I say
Chapayev had 100mm
Interestingly, the design philosophy behind Project "X" was likely to be based on the Imperial Japanese Navy's Mogami-class & Tone-class heavy cruisers, which were then modified into an aircraft cruiser capable of accommodating between 6 - 11 seaplanes, with the former historically capable to carry up to 11 seaplanes at the very least
autumn sorrel
But which theater design „X“ designed for?
manic latch
But which theater design „X“ designed for?
Rimsky-Korsakov's concept for his "large cruiser" was not only to be capable of destroying enemy cruisers being as large as the German Deutschland-class cruiser with its main guns being larger than 203mm in caliber, but also to be self-sufficient enough to conduct an autonomous operation outside of the fleet command's chain of command within a certain period of time while coordinating its task/strike force in the form of a small fleet division or a sizable flotilla consist of a few light cruisers, destroyer leaders such as Kiev-class & Tashkent-class, along with a handful of destroyers, submarines, support ships & other smaller sea combatants. Be it carrying out anti-submarine warfare, commerce raiding, intercept enemy raiders or operating a small-medium scale skirmishes, Project "X" was intended to fulfill those aforementioned roles in an unconventional means.
So Baltic and Black Sea as main focus
spring briar
manic latch
In addition, Project "X" was to get at least two submersible torpedo boats/midget subs designed by TsKBS-1 design bureau, known as the "Flea" - «Блоха» .
autumn sorrel
Ok, what with the Soviet and the propensity of making „do it all“ ship?
manic latch
Ok, what with the Soviet and the propensity of making „do it all“ ship?
Basically, Project "X" was to be the Soviet Ooyodo because of the ability to deploy seaplanes for support, coordinating smaller ships within its vicinity & carry out "sneaky" operations at the same time. The Navy had a soft spot on the idea of forming a sizable recon fleets or flotillas, which is why both Kiev & Tashkent existed to lead DDs.
manic latch
but they already knew
Well maybe that's why they didn't build it hmm?
spring briar
already having had a role swap
manic latch
Rich are you drunk 
autumn sorrel
Why do I have the impression that the Soviet Navy ship building plan feel like one of the way Stalin flexing to the world and try to get in the Big Navy club?
manic latch
Why do I have the impression that the Soviet Navy ship building plan feel like o...
It is. Ocean going fleet navy plan of Stalin as 5 year plans yes
spring briar
Rich are you drunk <:hmm:886726902449045534>
wdym
manic latch
But also a needed defense Germany, Japan etc
manic latch
Shhh
spring briar
spring briar
tribal mortar
Carrier based P-51H anyone?
manic latch
Molotov with spitfire
tough quail
Rad
tired flower
tribal mortar
Molotov with spitfire <a:TohruHarts:998318496918282240>
This better to be a gear
spring briar
manic latch
A Taiwanese AWACS E-2K Hawkeye landed on its belly and caught fire
rapid junco
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
manic latch
Kept it secret for morale?
Man happened with K-21 
She shoot torps to Tirpitz by a very long distance. Heard 2 explosions, assumed it hit Tirpitz
But in reality it likely missed or exploded to something else
alpine onyx
Meanwhile on Tirpitz: "Such a nice day, we launched our plane ahead so it gets back to base, seeing a lot of seaguls around"
manic latch
alpine onyx
Since I'd expect the germans to notice a bunch of explosions happening nearby
I think the torpedoes were fired at such an extreme range that they just died without exploding
manic latch
Since I'd expect the germans to notice a bunch of explosions happening nearby
The first ships to be seen were destroyers of the 1936 class, and they covered Tirpitz and the cruiser Admiral Scheer from possible attacks from submarines. The commander of K-21 decided to attack. K-21 bypassed the destroyers' protective barrier and went inside the squadron. Having approached to a distance of almost 13,000 feet the submarine fired a four torpedo spread from stern torpedo tubes towards the Tirpitz. Acoustics and crew members in the compartments of the submarine heard two explosions however, after the war, historians in German documents did not find evidence of torpedoes making contact with the battleship; the Germans did not even take notice of the attack. Historian M.E. Morozov put forward a hypothesis about the impossibility of torpedoes hitting the battleship, and he explained the origin of the explosions saying that the torpedoes detonated early
spiral cedar
Certified Russo-Japanese War torpedo doctrine
frigid karma
Certified Russo-Japanese War torpedo doctrine
The torps hit British fishermen
manic latch
The torps hit British fishermen
Nah that's Tsar Russia
On 21 January 1942, Norwegian fishing boat F-223N Ingøy was sunk by gunfire from K-21
So Soviets prefer Norwegian fishing boats
alpine onyx
That suggests that there were two torpedo detonations within a few hundred meters of a German warship on the lookout against a submarine attack
with them not noticing a thing
so... I think that is a very nicely told story
frigid karma
Could it be possible the documents reporting a potential submarine explosion were on the tirpitz when she blew up
alpine onyx
the war diaries of that day are available online
frigid karma
Huh
alpine onyx
if a sub was spotted, it'd be in there
manic latch
Can you always hear underwater explosions?
delicate beacon
Only if there is someone to hear it.
alpine onyx
especially since German hydrophones had the track record of hearing everything
manic latch
Or do you need sonar
delicate beacon
Kremlin
alpine onyx
the amount of false positives that you'll find in those diaries from sonar crews reporting torpedo noises is insane
when in reality they head the echo of another ship bouncing off of a reef
manic latch
Then the crew was bullshitting there being explosions they heard
People didn't believe Archerfish when she sunk Shinano right
alpine onyx
Hermes' war diary is full of those
and the 1936 type destroyers had even better hydrophones
frigid karma
People didn't believe Archerfish when she sunk Shinano right <a:cryingjesusholy:...
Omegalul what
Are you suggesting tirpitz actually sank to glorious Soviet sub
Entirely different goalpost here buddy
spring briar
manic latch
I'm saying people don't easily trust submarine crews as habit
spring briar
alpine onyx
well, they did trust K-21
frigid karma
Except archerfish actually sank her target
And k-21 didn’t even get tirpitz to notice
alpine onyx
WG even turned K-21 into a Naval Legend
frigid karma
They turned sov soyuz and some random Soviet missile boat in the Cold War into naval legends
All the second one did was pass some trials
manic latch
WG even turned K-21 into a *Naval Legend*
They should have named those naval documentaries better because people assume all ships there has to be popular to be named legends
frigid karma
CaRrIeR kIlLeR
alpine onyx
you heard WG's introduction to that series?
manic latch
Indeed it was idiotic decision
frigid karma
Kremlin
Cease your headassery
WG was just feeling like wanking Soviet stuff at the time
Stop coping for them
manic latch
This actually fucking hurts it this is why I'm pissed about it
At least also make Naval legend of H class or Lion class so people don't go full bully on Soyuz video
Or name the documentary as Wows documentary series not fucking naval legends
alpine onyx
"They were designed to be the best. They met enemies face to face. Endured tragedies and enjoyed victories. They went down in history due to the bravery of their crews. They are the ships that deserve to be called... "Naval Legends"."
manic latch
"They were designed to be the best. They met enemies face to face. Endured trage...
Yeah was the biggest mistake ever
alpine onyx
apart from the first point
manic latch
Hmm
alpine onyx
just not gonna work
manic latch
Are all ships designed to be the best tho
alpine onyx
depends
manic latch
Since budget and tonnage limitations etc
alpine onyx
if you build second line ships, then no
like destroyer escorts
you build them to be mass producable
or those sweety 1939 Fleet Torpedoboats
alpine onyx
"cream of the world's shipbuilding"
alpine onyx
I did suggest them to make a Tirpitz one
with focus on this duality of her being
the mental torture of some crew members having to sit basically idly by while the war is turning south, and in contrast those air engagements that did happen where she was the sole center of attention for a few days
spring briar
It’s naval legends
not naval philosophy sirene
alpine onyx
I mean, it still fits their description
alpine onyx
About Deutschland
manic latch
They did something to wank harder
Sabaton's Bismarck CGI
alpine onyx
eh, that cgi wasn't nearly as wanky
spring briar
The CGI looked good in that
manic latch
Has dual purpose 130mms of Udaloi instead her 152mm and 100mms
Also has wrong rangefinder on front
manic latch
I think he is talking about by the time of Soyuz's design
spring briar
Can I have some kind sir?
alpine onyx
specifically they say that when launched she'd be the best of her kind
manic latch
Like Chapayev was pretty good by her time of design as well
alpine onyx
so when, in 1942?
manic latch
specifically they say that when launched she'd be the best of her kind
42-43 ish
If things go as planned
alpine onyx
the Iowas were well underway at that point
which I will happily take over Soyuz
for a number of reasons
alpine onyx
not radar
frigid karma
what the fuck
spring briar
I prefer sugar
frigid karma
are you talking about
delicate beacon
Naval Legends about Volga
manic latch
Naval Legends about Volga
alpine onyx
It's about the Iowas having a machinery layout I can trust to deliver what it promises, a much more usable auxiliary armament, an at least equal main armament, much better speed and much greater range
frigid karma
shower
spring briar
I’ll take Soyuz over Iowa in Russian waters as long as I get to be the lead engineer
frigid karma
asap
manic latch
It's about the Iowas having a machinery layout I can trust to deliver what it pr...
Hmm I should ask you this then
Littorio vs Bismarck
spring briar
alpine onyx
in pure combat, Littorio
alpine onyx
some none anti surface combat things go towards Bismarck tho
so obviously the answer will be "it depends"
manic latch
You spoke of Iowa's range
But what range gives you in 1v1
Littorio also had inferior range to Bismarck
frigid karma
Kremlin
alpine onyx
1v1s are not my measurement
frigid karma
first of all
frigid karma
i'm not sure when we brought up 1v1s
delicate beacon
An Article about Sinterklaas' airplane? 
frigid karma
Sirene, did you bring up the 3 screws thing
alpine onyx
yesn't
I do have my doubts about a 3 shaft arrangement with a projected 77k shp per shaft delivering the on paper specs
frigid karma
even the RM didn't go up past 55-60
delicate beacon
Didn't they go to 70 for one CL?
frigid karma
so 77 is, ehh
alpine onyx
If you want to know exactly how I evaluate ships Krem, I have a pentagon of general stats I look at and basically take a multiplicative score
the five stats being firepower, protection, speed, anti-air and strategic factors
obviously only works in WW2 era
manic latch
If you want to know exactly how I evaluate ships Krem, I have a pentagon of gene...
Yeah you value all things which is good
Then Iowa is better for sure there
She is better fit to it
frigid karma
the five stats being firepower, protection, speed, anti-air and strategic factor...
would strategic factors factor in soft stats
alpine onyx
no, it's purely about hardware
frigid karma
ah
alpine onyx
strategic is basically the endurance and seaworthiness
how long can the ship operate, and where
frigid karma
isn't that soft stats
alpine onyx
I thought you meant soft stats as in crew
frigid karma
crew is a random variable
alpine onyx
precisely
frigid karma
not really worth discussing
but like
soft stats for me is anything outside of armor-firepower-speed
frigid karma
so maintenance, costs, reliabilty of systems, etc.
manic latch
the five stats being firepower, protection, speed, anti-air and strategic factor...
Hmm
Do you have a perfect BB design you would call best for ww2 by stats here. (Not heavier than 70k tons of course)
Like just type stats here
frigid karma
define perfect
alpine onyx
there is no perfect ship
frigid karma
because it's inherently a flawed idea
manic latch
Fulfills all the 5 things he asked decently
frigid karma
you don't go to an engineer and tell him to make a perfect ship
you tell him "i want you to accomplish these well defined goals" and he does that
manic latch
Yeah I know that. But I'm asking Sirene what's the 'best' he can do without passing 70k tons
frigid karma
"make me a ship primarily designed for fighting numerous BBs"
-yamato
"make me a ship that can catch kongos"
-iowa
spring briar
there is no perfect ship
Friendship
frigid karma
Yeah I know that. But I'm asking Sirene what's the 'best' he can do without pass...
the fuck?
what's the 'best' is the same as what's 'perfect'
there is no perfect ship
only ships good at particular tasks
manic latch
Tablet
alpine onyx
oof
manic latch
Don't need drawing of course
alpine onyx
very difficult, because I need parameters
manic latch
Just need stats
alpine onyx
where you put that ship
spiral cedar
"make me a ship primarily designed for fighting numerous BBs"
-yamato
"make me a...
"make me a ship primarily designed for fighting numerous BBs"
Fusō
alpine onyx
what does the opposition use
spiral cedar
Can engage 6 targets at once
frigid karma
"make me a ship primarily designed for fighting numerous BBs"
Fusō
fuso actually was the IJN's best aa ship
that pagoda would swat planes out of the sky
manic latch
where you put that ship
Hmm. Say France
manic latch
So you know German ships the best. Then you know best ways to counter it
alpine onyx
but it'd end up being some 32kn ship with ten to twelve 40cm guns, at least 20 barrels of heavy AA, a cruising range not below 15,000nm and however much armor you can afford
alpine onyx
because that will be uncounterable for the Germany that entered WW2
cannot run
definitely do not want to fight, even in a 2v1 (one will always take hits and be mission killed)
manic latch
So it's the fast Montana?
With 320k hp engine?
Has 12 406mm
Has 33 knot speed
Has DP 126mm/54s and 40mm bofors (maybe replace them with 76mms later why not)
Has great armor
spiral cedar
On 70k tons? Just build 200 minelayers
maiden citrus
just build 70 dds and suicide them in
spring briar
spiral cedar
Prolific
rapid junco
The first ships to be seen were destroyers of the 1936 class, and they covered T...
That remembers me of an episode with Enzo Grossi and submarine Barbarigo
Here in the South Atlantic
Grossi tried to attack USS Milwaukee ( ), which he wrongly identified as a "Maryland class battleship", which was being escorted by USS Moffet
He fired two torpedoes
The crew heard explosions and thought it was Milwaukee sinking
When in fact they weren't aware of the torpedoes
chilly osprey
He actually claimed to have sunk American battleships twice
He was stripped of his medals and promotions for the sinkings after the war, once the incident had been investigated
Interesting fun fact, though - he was actually born in Brazil
maiden citrus
milwaukee was not the imposter
chilly osprey
The second time was worse, since the Standard-type battleship he claimed was actually a Flower-class corvette. Which they did not hit.
maiden citrus
now that's a mistake and a half
chilly osprey
Indeed
rapid junco
Interesting fun fact, though - he was actually born in Brazil
And he was attacked by his own compatriots 
The FAB's baptism of fire is an action performed by a B-25
On the 22nd of May, 1942
With my country still on "Neutrality" (still, it was already two months since we severed relations with the Axis)
A B-25 partly crewed by Brazilians
Including Captain Pamplona, which would become a pilot of the 1st Fighter Squadron
They attacked Barbarigo with 100lbs. bombs
It didn't sink the sub
But it maybe damaged it
rapid junco
And he was attacked by his own compatriots <:NepSmug:839635014324322395>
Ah
And he also attacked his own as well
He torpedoed the merchant "Commandante Lyra"
Which didn't sunk
Both Milwaukee, followed by the tug boat "Heitor Perdigão"
Managed to save the ship
And just as a "Comical relief"
Commandante Lyra had a sister ship
Which was named
Commandante ||Ripper|| 
junior trench
The second time was worse, since the Standard-type battleship he claimed was act...
... if you set your torps for a depth against a BB would they even hit a Flower if the shot was perfect?
chilly osprey
I wouldn't expect you too
maiden citrus
probably not
spiral cedar
No
junior trench
wouldn't that be a kick in the pants if that's happened
not even being able to say "well, we sank something"
frigid karma
do the funni
latent pelican
In the week leading up to the Battle of the Somme, it was estimated by the British that they fired 1.5 million artillery shells.
autumn sorrel
War logi is crazy
dapper parcel
shell cocktail shakers
So, mercury fulminates or lead azides?
south forge
How is Enlisted for a historically accurate World War II game?
delicate beacon
Looks quite generic, probably not more than usual.
tough quail
it gets the general vibe down better than the majority of others by
a long shot
you just also see some whacky low production guns around too
but bf1 had the same issue and literally nothing competes with that for ww1
also calling it generic is weird as
jack shit plays vaguely like it
fierce sparrow
delicate beacon
spiral cedar
What is that
delicate beacon
24cm A/B Tromp
delicate beacon
Look at this cutie
manic latch
Look at this cutie
delicate beacon
Best bote
delicate beacon
subtle prawn
delicate beacon
@ivory ridge
ivory ridge
dapper parcel
76mm gatling lesgooo
subtle prawn
spring briar
delicate beacon
Excuse me
Important historical footage
You can carry on again.
Dutch ships resupplying in France
delicate beacon
Sail up the Medway: procure Royal Charles
Sail up the Loire: procure Baguette
cutie spotted
spring briar
Whooo
delicate beacon
spring briar
Mines
delicate beacon
spring briar
A bote
spring briar
I feel like posting 1860’s stuff
delicate beacon
What about Belgian WW1 stuff
delicate beacon
🥖
spring briar
delicate beacon
SFECMAS SS.10 ARS
spring briar
YES
delicate beacon
it looks like Fritz-X, did you steal from the Germans?
delicate beacon
delicate beacon
Me when some wehrb says the Germans invented the guided missile.
@ivory ridge food
spring briar
spring briar
Dammit
tribal mortar
Fucking meta loli
desert agate
delicate beacon
@spring briar , my friend @tribal mortar wants to know Le Mars' namesake.
desert agate
tribal mortar
<@450678921512353792> , my friend <@456226577798135808> wants to know Le Mars' n...
Yus
subtle prawn
@tribal mortar
tribal mortar
<@456226577798135808>
THANK YOU
tribal mortar
Though what kind of ship is Jean Bart's Le Mars? A frigate? A corvette?
tribal mortar
https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=24962
thank you
It's wonderful for my namesake list
tribal mortar
But does anyone here know what Le Temeraire's namesake is?
eternal veldt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Téméraire_(1669) Earliest usage is this ship of the line, at 1669.
But perhaps the most famous Temeraire in French usage is the 74 gun Temeraire class, a class with a whopping total of 107 74-gun ship of the lines.
tribal mortar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Le_T%C3%A9m%C3%A9raire
hmm interesting
What about L'Opiniâtre?
tribal mortar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_line_of_France
So a frigate
spiral cedar
What is that
subtle prawn
alpine onyx
http://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/images/spacesuits/henryXIIIArmor05.jpg
"I showed you my lance answer me"
valid trout
"I showed you my lance answer me"
Is that just a suit of armour for someone who has a boner?
alpine onyx
Not 100% sure, but a number of suits have that, I guess for comfort
The male equivalent to boob armor plates that some people like to bitch about
vivid sierra
The italian TD?
tepid mulch
Is that just a suit of armour for someone who has a boner?
It's a codpiece, it was very trendy at the time
Also question
There any term or word for a hostile ship?
tough quail
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/763462491119681540/1045786859827101776/ga...
my beloved
thorny scarab
The male equivalent to boob armor plates that some people like to bitch about
"The Penis Sheathe stays on in the bedroom"
shrewd pecan
manic latch
EU: You will use this budget for infrastructure etc right
Poland: Yeeeees
shrewd pecan
EU: You will use this budget for infrastructure etc right
Poland: Yeeeees
generally put there building to compete against the German defense industry through partnership with the Koreans
manic latch
generally put there building to compete against the German defense industry thro...
So why the need to compete against Germany
Domestic national values or smh?
Fear of future sanctions?
Which did happen with Turkey after their Syria deal
shrewd pecan
So why the need to compete against Germany
Germany has been fucking them over for the last decades when it come to defense procurement
It gives Poland independence in their procurement while giving south Korea a entry into the European defense market
manic latch
shrewd pecan
I also shouldn’t need to mention the nature of a certain country that has shattered the last several decades of common European defense policy and is already building up it own stab in the back conspiracy over its recent actions
dapper parcel
EU: You will use this budget for infrastructure etc right
Poland: Yeeeees
It's okay, you still use the budget for infrastructure anyway
Freeing the national budget for other uses 😏
desert agate
desert agate
That word enough to get a ban?
you good mate?
manic latch
He needs sleep
subtle prawn
manic latch
spring briar
subtle prawn
delicate beacon
subtle prawn
spiral cedar
What's going on in the picture
tough quail
planes flying above boats
spiral cedar
tawny nymph
I visited the granny
unborn wyvern
fierce sparrow
delicate beacon
What's going on in the picture
Dutch Navy chillin
alpine onyx
De Rooter
tribal mortar
Dutch Navy chillin
The Dutch Navy off to buy tulips
spring briar
tribal mortar
who this chonky ship
delicate beacon
delicate beacon
Cute little buggers like these are the best
fierce sparrow
subtle prawn
delicate beacon
We got what now?
delicate beacon
Again
spiral cedar
Congrats
delicate beacon
delicate beacon
Why do I see bis
Because he was the strongest battleship of ww2?
spring briar
https://www.delpher.nl/nl/tijdschriften/view?identifier=dts:2541005:mpeg21:0049&...
Hmmm
Interesting
I’ll look for the source
spring briar
I’ll be looking for the french source
delicate beacon
It's from "Le Yacht" 
spring briar
desert agate
Because he was the strongest battleship of ww2?
boob
spring briar
Whats that?
strong plank
Northrop Grumman is unveiling the B-21 Raider at a publicity event on friday
so it'll be the first proper look we get at it, all we've gotten so far have been renders
my dad was invited to the event, if he send me any pictures of the thing I'll see if I can share em
ivory ridge
🦅 🇺🇸
strong plank
didn't actually realize until recently that the name Raider was chosen in honor of the Doolittle raiders
spring briar
oh you guys are making a new black flying dorito
strong plank
angry wedge
ivory ridge
still shocked by how big the B2 is
i always link it to the f-117 in my mind but lmao
spring briar
tough quail
https://youtu.be/3rg9_uZwbnA
ayyyyyy its one of the bestter bisko arts
i always liked that guys style
spring briar
USS Shiloh when
strong plank
The exposure on that top pic made me think the guns were talos mounts
manic latch
i always link it to the f-117 in my mind but lmao
Jesus christ
No wonder you are depressed
Always aiming at smaller things
spring briar
manic latch
Maybe Northrop saw your sad state where they decided to make B-21 much smaller than B-2 as you dreamed
ivory ridge
brb removing my walls.
I live in your floor
ivory ridge
manic latch
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1000540249782505533/Sc...
Sometimes I get urge to say lewd things to ships Undef shares
But I do fear from the power of moderation team
ivory ridge
spring briar
@spiral cedar navweaps is in the future!
spiral cedar
Can't wait for spaceweaps.com
subtle prawn
manic latch
@delicate beacon Closing 3000 farms huh
delicate beacon
https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=MMKB18:009298000:00025
It mentions Moniteur de la Flotte
spring briar
spring briar
manic latch
Iowa vs Montana fans arguing who is better
valid trout
Iowa vs Montana fans arguing who is better
Lol
tribal mortar
Iowa vs Montana fans arguing who is better
Iowa vs Yamato fans arguing who would sink who.
steep pine
Moving down here so we don't annoy the Schutzstaffel
gentle viper
@viscid crescent please tell me you dont believe in the "sherman death trap" Myth
also they all scream "Tiger! Tiger! Ace! Genius! Wittman!" Until Joe Akins appears with a Sherman
steep pine
Here's the whole thing about Bismarck.
viscid crescent
<@773604678302433360> please tell me you dont believe in the "sherman death tra...
I used to believe in that myth where the shermans catched fire easily
Not anymore tho
gentle viper
Here's the whole thing about Bismarck.
Bismarck was a brand new Battleship, she sunk a 20 year old+ Battlecruiser with a lucky shot
steep pine
Lindemann knew he fucked up when he hit Hood
gentle viper
She couldnt even Shoot down the Swordfishes!
steep pine
Churchill sent the entire goddamn Atlantic Fleet after his stupid ass.
Fifty-four warships
gentle viper
Churchill sent the *entire goddamn Atlantic Fleet* after his stupid ass.
yeah no shit a fast surface raider will cuck all the escorts
the problem with bismarck is that she was a threat because she would disperse convoys, and the subs take care of the rest
that would work 1 or 2 times
Even then
a Singular KGV could probably outpower bismarck
steep pine
With the whole Atlantic Fleet after him, Lindemann knew he wouldn't make it back to Brest.
There was no way in Hell.
gentle viper
With the whole Atlantic Fleet after him, Lindemann knew he wouldn't make it back...
Even if he reached Brest
the RAF would've bombed everything in a 3 square mile radius to kingdom come
steep pine
Agreed.
gentle viper
it annoys me seeing Wehraboos overhype bismarck
i once had to debate with one saying that Bismarck was only second to Iowa
viscid crescent
it annoys me seeing Wehraboos overhype bismarck
Insert that bismarck copium image
steep pine
Bismarck was a hell of a warship; her captain was a fucking lunatic.
gentle viper
I want to see Bismarck duke out against Washington, lets see just how many Minutes Bismarck lasts
unborn wyvern
Colorado could take the Biscut lol
gentle viper
I want to see Bismarck duke out against Washington, lets see just how many Minut...
in defense of Bismarck, Lee was a demigod basically
gentle viper
Colorado could take the Biscut lol
Bro, there is a better timeline where PoW's main gun didnt malfunction, and Bismarck didnt survive the Battle of the denmark Strait
steep pine
Here's the issue I have with the Wehraboos and their defense of the Kriegsmarine. They were a one-trick pony with the U-boats.
gentle viper
Here's the issue I have with the Wehraboos and their defense of the Kriegsmarine...
and one that didnt even last that long
steep pine
Their surface fleet was dog shit
gentle viper
just read about the Effectiveness and losses of the U-boat fleet in 1943
and beyond
once the allies stepped up the ASW game
gentle viper
Once King stopped being such a dumbass
and chose to actually cooperate with the britons
things actually started working out in their favor
who would've thought that cooperating with your allies yields results
steep pine
The Kriegsmarine would have wanted no part of the US Navy.
As the IJN found out to their dismay.
gentle viper
As the IJN found out to their dismay.
the US Navy 1943+ is the definition of "fuck around and find out"
steep pine
Indeed.
steep pine
Hell, the destruction of CarDivs 1 and 2 all but finished off the IJN
gentle viper
Hell, the destruction of CarDivs 1 and 2 all but finished off the IJN
even if the US lost at midway, they would've probably recovered from that
eventually
chilly osprey
Churchill sent the *entire goddamn Atlantic Fleet* after his stupid ass.
I mean, this has less to do with Hood sinking and more just that the British were going to do their damnest to catch any German battleship that has broken out into the Atlantic.
steep pine
Six months is all it took for us to come out fighting
hasty flame
I just want to say one thing: It never fails to amuse me that the Royal Navy (nearly) single-handedly won against both the Regia Marina, Kriegsmarine and Marine Nationale 
So long 
tribal mortar
Daily ships basically
They churn out more than the IJN could do. 6 hours of ships compared to 6 years of shipbuilding in Sakura Empire.
viscid crescent
I dont know how the US could have lost WW2
steep pine
It wasn't possible for us to
steep pine
Yeah... Japan fucked around and found out
viscid crescent
Other than major fuck ups and lack of plot armor
gentle viper
you literally cant loose WW2 if you control the seas, the air, and the atom
steep pine
Congratulations. You woke the tiger.
tribal mortar
Other than major fuck ups and lack of plot armor
KMS and IJN had real strong plot armour until 1942.
gentle viper
i remember this book called "the big one"
tribal mortar
It’s like 42, everything falls apart
steep pine
Ironically enough, it was World War II that pulled us out of the Great Depression.
chilly osprey
Lmao
tribal mortar
you literally cant loose WW2 if you control the seas, the air, and the atom
Every HOI4 game ever
steep pine
Historical irony, that.
gentle viper
and damn the US holding out their nukes till 1946 to Carpet Nuke a Germany that conquered the UK and half the USSR makes me horny
chilly osprey
Saying things only fell apart in 1942 for Japan is a meme given the only joined they war in December 1941
gentle viper
Literal 200+ Nukes
viscid crescent
Every HOI4 game ever
gentle viper
the B-36 would've destroyed Germany
steep pine
Here's what gets me about Pearl Harbor.
chilly osprey
I also wouldn't really say the KM was running on plot armor either
viscid crescent
So now we stepping into alternate history?
steep pine
Yamamoto knew it was a bad idea.
tribal mortar
Saying things only fell apart in 1942 for Japan is a meme given the only joined ...
Sakura Empire pretty much started the Pacific War with Dragon Empery.
gentle viper
they had no Aircraft capable of reaching its max alt
chilly osprey
The invasion of Norway was quite painful for them, and 1941 was a very bad year for their battleships.
steep pine
Nobody listened to him.
tribal mortar
*Nobody listened to him.*
Because it was big gamble.
gentle viper
So now we stepping into alternate history?
lets not get into alternate history
But i will die on this Hill, the B29 program was a mistake
i love the B29
tribal mortar
Either way we take the risk and end the war before it starts or we start the war and fight someone thrice as powerful as us
gentle viper
But Honestly the Program was a DISASTER
the biggest clusterfuck of US Aviation industry
even bigger than the Avenger II
steep pine
And Japan fucked up at Pearl Harbor.
tribal mortar
the biggest clusterfuck of US Aviation industry
B29 looks nice ngl
steep pine
Let me explain.
tribal mortar
And Japan fucked up at Pearl Harbor.
No shit.
steep pine
The only thing they managed to hit was Battleship Row
gentle viper
B29 looks nice ngl
i personally loved it
tribal mortar
The only thing they managed to hit was Battleship Row
And a few warships too, but they are insignificant
gentle viper
And Japan fucked up at Pearl Harbor.
had the Japanese not surprised attacked, maybe the war would've lasted a bit more
The Americans would be you know, more calmed
steep pine
The repair facilities were left alone
Six months later, we came back at Midway and kicked their teeth in.
Fuck around and find out
tribal mortar
The repair facilities were left alone
And the oil tanks too
tribal mortar
Six months later, we came back at Midway and kicked their teeth in.
Made awkward when one wargame predicted such a scenario but was deemed impossible
steep pine
Lesson learned: Don't Fuck With The US Navy.
tribal mortar
Lesson learned: Don't Fuck With The US Navy.
More like the dont mess with the US and just let it fight itself
gentle viper
Hang MacArthur
tribal mortar
Hang MacArthur
Smh
eager dove
Japanese officers knew they couldn't win a prolonged war with the US, the whole plan was to have a quick and incredibly violent war to bring the Americans into negotiations
gentle viper
He was an total Buffoon with how he handled the campaign of the philipines
eager dove
obviously uh did not work
gentle viper
all that could go wrong went wrong because of HIM
steep pine
No, the only thing they managed to do is piss us off.
gentle viper
all that could go wrong went wrong because of HIM
WPO wasnt great i know
but still better
do you know just how many civilians and POW's got killed because of that idiot?
chilly osprey
'what do you mean they won't give up after one battle?'
'what do you mean they will leverage the fact they have six times the industrial output of us?'
steep pine
'What do you mean that, even with 80% of the male population going out to fight that they can still build enough warships to bury us?'
tribal mortar
Basically the Sakura Empire gambled on a quick war against the US to prevent their intervention in the Dragon Empery but their gamble failed because of way too many risks and saw them push back from their conquests.
eager dove
gentle viper
Getting into China was also a disaster
steep pine
Those Fletcher-class ships were largely built by women
gentle viper
they killed a fuckton of american cruisers and Destroyers
eager dove
long lance wank
chilly osprey
A lot of torpedoes sank a lot of destroyers and cruisers
gentle viper
A lot of torpedoes sank a lot of destroyers and cruisers
not the Mk 13
kek
Fucking Bureau of Ordnance i swear
Hang everybody in the Bureau of Ordnance
steep pine
Who would win? Two massive carriers, or two little sub girls?
eager dove
the Long Lance is an overhyped torpedo that caused more trouble to the ships carrying it than their enemies
it was massive overkill
gentle viper
They caused the death of Too many pilots
for nothing
because those torps did NOTHING
chilly osprey
Mk.13 did sink a lot of ships, in fact, after the early/mid-war period...
steep pine
Because US subs got both Taihou and Shinano.
gentle viper
it took them way too long to fix the Mk 13 issue
eager dove
everybody had torpedo dud issues at one point or another, the USN just had it at a very inopportune time and Buord was stubborn about fixing it
chilly osprey
Mmm.
gentle viper
everybody had torpedo dud issues at one point or another, the USN just had it at...
"our torpedoes dont work"
"No"
"i saw them crack after hitting an enemy ship"
"You are both wrong and Stupid, demoted to shore labor"
steep pine
Archerfish got lucky because Shinano's captain was an idiot
gentle viper
Buord moment
eager dove
The Germans famously missed a chance at killing Churchill and a bunch of Royal Navy officers aboard HMS Nelson early in the war due to duds
chilly osprey
Funny everyone glosses over all the issues with exploding early or veering off course or diving too deep that the Type 93 had.
And that's setting the whole issue of oxygen propulsion...
eager dove
In Zahn's own account of the events, three cruisers were heading straight toward his U-boat's position, making any attack by him almost impossible, when suddenly they veered by twenty to thirty degrees from their previous course opening the field of attack and bringing him into a direct line of fire with HMS Nelson and HMS Rodney. Rodney was the lead ship of the convoy and Zahn decided to wait until it passed and concentrated his sights on the Nelson. The U-boat came within the point-blank range of 800 metres of the ship and Zahn's chances of striking and sinking it were high.
A G7e torpedo (middle) similar to the ones used by U-56 against the Nelson.
He fired three torpedoes from U-56's three torpedo tubes toward the flagship. No detonations occurred but two torpedoes allegedly struck the hull of the Nelson: one of the sonar operators of ‘’U-56’’ claimed to have heard sound of impact with Nelson's hull. The third torpedo subsequently exploded at sea without causing damage. The incident has been described as the "most important non-sinking" of the conflict. After the attack Zahn became widely known as the "Man who almost killed Churchill" amongst the U-boat submariner corps.```Hard to say. The effects of torpedo hits can vary depending on where they they strike and what other damage the ship has taken.
And usually battleships that sink by torpedo strikes have taken more hits than might actually be strictly required to sink them.
viscid crescent
Imma be lurking with popcorn
cinder escarp
Just how many torps would it take to sink Iowa?
depends on the torp...
Mark 13s? A lot.
Mark 48s? Like 2, maybe 3.
chilly osprey
Lol
gentle viper
depends on the torp...
Mark 13s? A lot.
Mark 48s? Like 2, maybe 3.
yeah no shit
Spoiler but a Destroyer Escort cant tank a Tomahawk Nuclear Missile
cinder escarp
Real HMS Plym hours
spiral cedar
New people
eager dove
plenty of them lol
somber knoll
no
just a regular wehrb
frigid karma
we have a newbie who wants macarthur's death
that's lovely
welcome
wehrbs, where
somber knoll
only the tl;dr tho, the bulk is in general I think.
chilly osprey
somber knoll
Bismarck was a brand new Battleship, she sunk a 20 year old+ Battlecruiser with ...
starting from here
spiral cedar
The repair facilities were left alone
The Japanese didn't have the ordnance to destroy the repair facilities as a whole, or to put a significant fraction of the repair facilities out of action for any substantial length of time. Recall that there are civilian repair facilities and many skilled civilian contractors in Honolulu that can repair damage to the naval repair facilities, and furthermore that the USN had three repair ships and several tenders available at Pearl that could likewise repair anything needed (they were described as being able to "do practically anything except build [a battleship] from scratch"). Certainly there is historical precedent for this. It's likely that most of the damage could be repaired in a couple weeks.
The repair facilities are also a considerable area—the Japanese standard carrier bomb, the 250 kg, was poorly optimized for land target demolition, and even if you assume no bomb crater overlaps another, committing the entire bomber force on the carriers to just bombing repair facilities would have destroyed, in a best-case scenario, only about 5-10% of the shipyard areas. Hardly enough to render Pearl Harbor incapable of repairing the damage
somber knoll
Ye.
frigid karma
Then why would he be a wehrb
spiral cedar
In other words, bombing the repair facilities would have pretty much been a complete waste
somber knoll
not really I think?
not really a wehrb ye
I was distracted by how the statement of the organization for the hunt was worded 