But these couldve been used on Kronshtadt right
#history
mystic basin
mystic basin
Oh
spring briar
too much rotational velocity from kron's guns
manic latch
Yosh
mystic basin
The rifling inside the barrels
Yes
Wait why do only ships have the extreme rotation
Why not other guns
manic latch
Rifled
spring briar
Why not other guns
?
mystic basin
In the 1880s did they just not have the rifling yet
And thats why they would explode?
spring briar
they did have rifling
manic latch
Kron use very long guns
spring briar
rifling has existed since the early 1800's
mystic basin
Ah
So the sheer explosive force coupled with the longer barrel would kill the shell
Gotcha
spring briar
the old russian 305mm shells had a much lower velocity so they rotated slower, meaning less pressure on the walls of the shells
kron has really high velocity guns
so the old shells would spin too fast for the walls to hold
and they would break
mystic basin
And now your guns broken
alpine onyx
Reduced charge
mystic basin
I see
alpine onyx
Mortar shells
manic latch
Reduced charge
No
mystic basin
Reduced charge
Yes lemme shoot at a ship with a fraction of the velocity I need
Richochet farming
Or non-pen
manic latch
Mortar would hit deck
mystic basin
Would it still go through?
spring briar
btw
the same company that made the engine for the Leclerc MBT was producing 305mm shells for the russian empire in Finland in the 1890's and 1900's
wild isn't it
lapis elm
Mortar would hit deck
A question from this: Lower velocity would mean, to an extent, a better ability to do plunging fire?
spring briar
spring briar
A question from this: Lower velocity would mean, to an extent, a better ability...
yes
but you also need a significant initial velocity so that you aren't just having your projectile free fall
manic latch
A question from this: Lower velocity would mean, to an extent, a better ability...
Of course.
spring briar
otherwise it's way too slow and won't pen shit
mystic basin
Thats what mortar shells are meant to do right
spring briar
no
lapis elm
alpine onyx
Let's build one of those three-deckers with mortars
Only mortars
And let it hail!
spring briar
but in the early 1900's, deck piercing mortars were definitely a development
mystic basin
And let it hail!
A single close-range ship would kill it
Literally no direct fire weapons
spring briar
in 1905 during the siege of port arthur in the russo japanese war, the Japanese used 280mm mortars to shell the russian battleships
the shells were piercing the decks and ripping them up
alpine onyx
lapis elm
spring briar
Navarin had cast iron 455 kg AP and HE (more like SAP) shells
mv ~ 610 mps
barrel life ~ 60 full charges
spring briar
I found out that those shells were practically as long as the model 1907 SAP ones (the long ones on the ganguts) but without an AP cap ofc
those heavy shells also cost a lot
spring briar
russia then went to france to ask for assistance with lighter shells
switching from 367 or 455 to 331.7 kg
manic latch
switching from 367 or 455 to 331.7 kg
spring briar
this increased muzzle velocity by ~14-21%
and so penetration at short to medium range
this practically gave them one of the first succesfully fuzing shells with post-armor bursting
spring briar
well the successes were in 1895
ten years later, corruption had already affected a large number of the shells
meaning they were the simple variants without AP caps and meh fuzes
with which they went into Tsushima
manic latch
spring briar
it happens
subtle prawn
maiden citrus
life cycle of a shell
tough quail
aerodynamic lad
spiral cedar
16" guns superior because easier to fit your cleaning twink inside
maiden citrus
child labor
spring briar
Never take advice on cleaning naval gun bores from the guy that shot a .300 blk out of his .223 AR to clean it
humble mulch
Today I learned that in ww2 every Romanian army division had a Chaplin and they would constantly get their divsions to help build churches, assist to organizing weddings, and doing many other civil projects and farming between the interwar and end of ww2
humble mulch
Yes I do mean chaplain
But Charlie Chaplin is a powerful enough man to be in all of them they didn't have many
frigid karma
nah
i heard chaplin was working part time in germany
some sort of high ranking official
humble mulch
Also if anyone would like to know how utterly fucked Romania was during ww2 and their involvements in the holocaust a more recent book came out on the topic:
Romania's Holy War
Soldiers, Motivation, and the Holocaust
By Grant T. Harward
Incredibly recent book, I read it 2~ years ago as it was a dissertation before a book. Goes over army culture, organization, war progression, propaganda, and other drives and motives in the war and is an incredibe contrast to post ww2 books on the issue from Romania and the west
Also does a great job illustrating the total disconnect between the officers & enlisted men, the government and army, and how hatred and fear towards one group can be redirect to another
manic latch
American B-24 Liberator bombers in flight over the burning Astra Romana oil refinery in Ploiesti.
An American B-24D Liberator bomber flies over a burning oil plant in Ploiesti, Romania, during Operation Tidal Wave.Operation Tidal Wave, in which the 44th, 93rd and 389th bombing groups of the 8th Air Army took part, not only broke the record for flight range, but also became the first mass raid of heavy four-engine bombers on a target since the beginning of the war. in strafing flight. The flight altitude during the bombardment averaged about 140 m. As a result of the raid, the total volume of Ploiesti refineries was reduced by more than half and amounted to only 46% of the previous volume
eternal veldt
According to Yuro, putting an AA platform or catapult there works too
Let's just ignore the fact that the RN heavily relies on the cutters and motor boats to ferry people around
manic latch
Air bombs (presumably four FAB-100s) hit the German auxiliary supply vessel "Franken" (Trossschiff "Franken") as a result of an attack by Il-2 attack aircraft of the Baltic Fleet Air Force southeast of the Hel Spit, East Prussia, April 8, 1945. Photo control hit. The ship broke into two parts and now lies at a depth of 47-72 m at a point with coordinates 54°32′ N018°57′ E.
humble mulch
Operation tidal wave was a big meme, iirc its named Black Sunday. Was practically a failure in every regard and one of the most costly operations done by the USAAF. 53 of the 177 B-24s were lost with 660 crew and another 53 damaged, with the Axis losing only 7 planes. And the bombers missed a great majority of the refineries and within weeks oil production levels were much higher then previous due to the refineries not being at maximum output to begin with, though a few were knocked out for the rest of the war.
The USAAF attack flew from Benghanz at low altitude under radio silence. This caused lose in unit cohesion which didn't go well with them being detected by the entirety of the Axis air forces.
The Bulgaria Air Force intercepted them and recived their first Air kills in the war with several medals being given out. The RRAF made +50 sorties against the raid and the Luftwaffe +80.
This resulted in the 98th Bomber division being removed from that theater.
Should be noted the RRAF quite literally had an entirely separate "branch" specifically for homeland defense and Ploiesti was the most heavily defended Axis city outside German with +300 fighters and 2 very sizeable AA divisions
IAR-80s also really good at low altitude and that was the home defense fighter the RRAF used, with +100 being within the defense force of Ploiesti
Columbia Aquila refinery after the bombing, with bomb craters, largely intact
Was a really dodgey USAAF bombing run with no fighter coverage at all. Return trip for the bombers wasn't the best as only 88 made it back, the 53 lost early were combat loses and the return airfield was in Libya
The German 5th Flak Division and the Romanian 4th AA Brigade (5th flak division was half Romanian personal) also had cool AA flatbed railroad cars with an assortment of German flak guns on them
And these were the 2 divisions there, the other 4 Romania had manly used locally produced Vickers 75mm aa guns in comparison to these 2
tight violet
The black eagle’s t-80 chassis is lengthened with an extra set of wheels but what good did that do for the design?
tough quail
aye
cold pumice
Least clueless r/warshipporn user
Why didn't they simply only build battleships because a cruiser would lose
ivory ridge
So true
manic latch
SEPv4 version builds on the previous SEPv3 variant, by adding the following:
An upgraded Gunner's Primary Sight (GPS) with a third-generation forward-looking infrared (FLIR) sensor, improved laser range-finder, and full-color video camera.
An upgraded Commander's Primary Sight (CPS) with a third-generation FLIR and full-color video camera, as well as a laser pointer and range finder.
Lethality improvements including the addition of a digital data link that can communicate with the Army's new reprogrammable XM1147 Advanced Multi-Purpose (AMP) round for the tank's 120mm main gun.
A new onboard meteorological sensor that can collect various types of data to improve accuracy.
Upgraded communications, data-sharing, and onboard diagnostics systems.
Information the Army has previously released says that the SEPv4 will also feature a Laser Warning Receiver (LWR) system to help improve survivability by alerting the crew that targeting lasers associated with guided anti-tank missiles and other weapons are being aimed at them. Separate from the SEPv4 development effort, the Army has also been working to integrate Trophy Active Protection Systems (APS) onto its existing M1A2 tanks and also has explosive reactive armor (ERA) kits available for the Abrams.
In addition, the SEPv4 will have an Improved Thermal Management System (ITMS), as well, to help mitigate the additional heat generated by the various new electronics and the power sources that go along with them
spring briar
but can it boil water
manic latch
Nah
ivory ridge
but can it boil water
British superiority
spring briar
ivory ridge
Great discord bugs
manic latch
In a new development for the storied 70-year-old bomber, it is now conducting wind tunnel testing for its new engines. The bomber has used the same engines since the 1960s so the craft is due for an update. The B-52 will also receive a new radar. Once this happens the B-52 will be considered the B-52J or even the B-52K. That’s not all. The new B-52 variant will have improved “communications, pylons, and cockpit displays,” and one station crew member station may eventually be removed
manic latch
In a new development for the storied 70-year-old bomber, it is now conducting wi...
The AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar replacement is attractive because it is the same system used on the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet and has some similarities to the radar used on the F-15E Strike Eagle. The Raytheon AN/APG-79 radar
hushed saffron
In a new development for the storied 70-year-old bomber, it is now conducting wi...
... In the grim darkness of the 40th millennium, there is only B-52s.
tough quail
you're going to find M2s, mosins, 1911s, DShKs, AKs and AR-15s on fucking mars somehow
they're just a core part of the universe now
spring briar
you're going to find M2s, mosins, 1911s, DShKs, AKs and AR-15s on fucking mars s...
as long as I can find a FAL
manic latch
you're going to find M2s, mosins, 1911s, DShKs, AKs and AR-15s on fucking mars s...
Who doesn't love DSHK
tough quail
gode bles
tough quail
right arm of the free world baybee
subtle prawn
tough quail
based
spring briar
I called Alaska a small fast battleship on reddit and some dude is citing the entire development of battlecruisers to me now
frigid karma
small fast battleship
die
you sound like those fuckwits that call anything floating with a weapon a battleship
why don't you call the LCS turds small fast battleships too?
spring briar
I love how me simply eluding to what I said is already causing a reaction 
frigid karma
small fast battleship
i am going to give the best head in the world to a loaded .50 cal for putting those words on my screen
spring briar
strong plank
if the Dunkerques were battlecruisers
and the Richelieus were basically a development on that
spring briar
Dunkerque is not a battlecruiser
spring briar
Dunkerque is a fast battleship
And Richie is also a fast battleship
But since dunky is smaller than richie, she’s a small fast battleship
Alaska is a large cruiser yes
Definitely not a battlecruiser
alpine onyx
spring briar
frigid karma
Richy we know this is your secret plan to brainwash us into liking french pre-dreadnoughts
stop
alpine onyx
Oh rite
frigid karma
any of them
spring briar
any of them
No clue what you mean
subtle prawn
manic latch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulGXSPoOJSE
Never liked this type of gunners
Wish they had a cool shield turret
manic latch
zealous vine
Amazing 😮
eternal veldt
Kleine*
spiral cedar
tfw you accidentally make a plate of Q=25 
frigid karma
tfw you accidentally make a plate of Q=25 <:dunkekstare:754204585031237703>
is Q=25 some kind of food?
send pics
spring briar
@ivory ridge Italian 305mm AP shell from Dante/Conte/Duilio
The internals are kind of simplified because I don't have enough documentation
ivory ridge
spring briar
spring briar
French battleships of 1922-1956 by John Jordan
manic latch
manic latch
subtle prawn
tough quail
destroy rheinmetal
tough quail
if the leclerc of the west is doomed, the leclerc of the east must succeed
hyundai, this is the last of my power! take it!
shrewd pecan
It’s production line ended forever ago so no surprise
manic latch
not for long
Kf-51
shrewd pecan
There’s only so many surplus leopard 2s left
manic latch
Ye Panther is coming
shrewd pecan
that’s also assuming anyone actually buys KF-51
tough quail
kf-51 is a meme
it's going to take so long to get off the ground that hyundai will smother them
spring briar
France must make a 7 axle leclerc with integrated APS and a 138.6 mm gun 
manic latch
Doesn't K2 production go very slow 
spring briar
shrewd pecan
considering there’s gonna be three production lines for the thing and it’s variants soon
It’s likely gonna be going much faster
subtle prawn
According to Wikipedia, India and Croatia are looking at the Leclerc at least
shrewd pecan
I doubt either would buy it
spring briar
India
chilly osprey
The more orders they get the more they can expand production or increase the rate of production
spring briar
chilly osprey
Selling to India is like pulling teeth
shrewd pecan
tho who knows
manic latch
India has like 5000 T-90. How many Leclerc they want
shrewd pecan
probably enough to replace the T-90s
manic latch
probably enough to replace the T-90s
shrewd pecan
I mean that was before Russia was a questionable supplier
Tank purchases of this type also take years to decades to actually be finished
ivory ridge
chilly osprey
Well, Russia was a questionable supplier then too
The article linked even talks about it
It's just that now things are a bit more dire
manic latch
Tank purchases of this type also take years to decades to actually be finished
So India is going Saudi way?
Combine different tanks
chilly osprey
India is doing a mix of that and also trying to develop a competent design themselves
spring briar
Arjun 3
chilly osprey
It's an ongoing struggle
shrewd pecan
I can’t imagine there exactly happy watching the performance of Russian tanks right now either
manic latch
I can’t imagine there exactly happy watching the performance of Russian tanks ri...
Saudi Abrams tactics = Abrams is bad? 
tough quail
a lot of the issues russian tanks are facing are not going to be solved by a leclerc either
not... many of them at all
shrewd pecan
that’s fair, but the reputation is still there
chilly osprey
It's less so the tanks as they're being used in the field, and more the issues with supply chains that are about to happen
spiral cedar
chilly osprey
Russia is going to be eating up a lot of what is going to be available in components for replenishing their own tank force
shrewd pecan
yeah that as well
chilly osprey
All while suffering huge shortages of components because of sanctions
This will have a major impact on India's supply chain
tough quail
it helps india already has a bunch of french equipment too
chilly osprey
Because current events have shown Russian tanks to be more than serviceable. Russian tanks have been used very effectively against the Russian army, after all.
shrewd pecan
I can see india going for leclerc or K-2
chilly osprey
It will be a question of how much domestic production India can get out of either country
Though with India's recent record of demands
They may just get nothing
shrewd pecan
I feel like K-2s gonna be the better option considering they licensed produced K-9 before
Korea seems more willing to do that type of thing compared to France
Tho leclerc is also a valid option for them, we’ll have to see if they end up buying either
shrewd pecan
K-2s still the most expensive tank ever produced
Labor costs only get you so far when your working with a tank that has a radar in it
tough quail
having a radar in your tank is also immensely based
manic latch
K-2s still the most expensive tank ever produced
Isn't that Turkish Altay?
shrewd pecan
I hope more tanks and IFVs pick up that gimmick in the future
shrewd pecan
Isn't that Turkish Altay?
Still a K-2 development
cinder escarp
Altay isn't really a copy, it's... sorta related.
manic latch
shrewd pecan
I’d call it a development
cinder escarp
And K2 is largely only so expensive, like Type 90/10, due to the very low production rate.
shrewd pecan
We’ll have to see how the Polish purchase effects the purchase price
spring briar
cinder escarp
Note back in its production run, HonClerc was the most expensive tank ever
for the same reasons of negative economies of scale
shrewd pecan
fair
cinder escarp
(They were never going to compete with the M1 Abraham Lincoln in cost, purely because that thing has always been a budget tank program)
manic latch
Budget except fuel
shrewd pecan
your dealing with the scale of the United States military, fuel costs aren’t gonna be a issue
cinder escarp
The first Abrams rolled out for under $3.5 million in current day dollars, and they actually went down with time.
manic latch
Ye there is like 10k Abrams
cinder escarp
It wasn't just scale, from day one the Abrams was not to be the best tank the US could build.
It was to be... the best tank that could be built for a unit cost of $500k each in FY72 dollars
spring briar
105mm gun
cinder escarp
It was literally a build-to-cost program
shrewd pecan
I mean the 105 was still perfectly serviceable at the time
manic latch
105mm gun <:FlareWheeze:898029171123568711>
Honestly it was a smart decision
Soviets: So enemy use 105mms Should upgrade design armor against those.
Soviets: OH shit they are passing to 120mm, develop new 152mm MBT projects against it
collapsed before doing it
cinder escarp
The lacking of any form of collective NBC in the vanilla variant, the lack of AC, the lack of an APU, the lack of a CITV, the incredibly woke armor layout which is minmaxed to hell and back... they're all a result of the $500k cap
spring briar
I mean ofc it was gonna get swapped eventually, its just funny
cinder escarp
Honestly it was a smart decision
Soviets: So enemy use 105mms Should upgrade ...
The T-64/72 was in fact the reaction to NATO fielding a 120mm, in the form of Chieftain.
The soviets did not originally realize that Chieftain's gun was a strange medium-pressure thing with far less energy than the full power 120mm HV on the Conqueror or M103.
(In fact, the final 105mm round fielded by the US, has more muzzle energy than any 120mm round ever fired by L11)
spring briar
The 120 used in the leopard 2’s is also pretty low pressure I heard, compensating for it with a longer barrel
spring briar
Idk
shrewd pecan
pressure maxed
spring briar
High pressure
manic latch
Ye
cinder escarp
The Rh-M-120 is fairly high pressure, although the Germans use relatively conservative loadings
spring briar
Not really
cinder escarp
The gun was only originally designed for the 80,000 psi range
shrewd pecan
I mean I’d rather the higher pressure than the longer gun
cinder escarp
We did a study to basically see how hot we could actually load it, by taking a bunch of high-quality production tubes and loading them until they burst
They then backed off a bit to determine the yield point, subtracted a percent or so from that, and chose it as the loading.
We're basically firing proof shots
every round
cinder escarp
Instead making barrel longer they uhhh
We tried to make the long barrel
manic latch
We tried to make the long barrel
What went wrong
cinder escarp
But despite some funky tricks, it overloaded the stabilizer. And there was no money for swapping the stabs.
cinder escarp
Note: the Germans had to replace their stabs as well when they swapped guns.
spring briar
A longer barrel does bring some other issues with it
Harmonics, droop and temperature issues
shrewd pecan
didn’t the M256E1 give the tank suspension issues
spring briar
So its ok that they stuck with the shorter one
chilly osprey
iirc the /55 does have some droop issues
spring briar
chilly osprey
But it's been a long time since I've read about it
cinder escarp
If we ever bothered to update the stabilizer (and we really should, it uh has some issues)... it would be a trivial manner to fit the longer barrel at the same time.
shrewd pecan
I mean how much more performance are you really squeezing out of that
cinder escarp
And by "some issues", I don't mean performance. It's a very good system performance wise that competes very well even with newer systems such is on 2A5+ Leo 2s or the LeClerc. The problem is it's all-hydraulic.
spring briar
Why is that such a big issue
cinder escarp
(Also, as to why Abrams was designed as a build-to-cost machine, the past "build the best tank you can" program, MBT-70... ended up with a fantastic vehicle that simply cost $8 million each in modern money. And the army just could not afford it. They purposefully set the Abrams unit cost cap at about 40% of the MBT-70)
cinder escarp
Why is that such a big issue
Hydraulics are a never-ending maintenance headache/issue, they are a safety issue (oh boy leaks, and if the leaks catch fire on you...), and they are a survivability issue (all that burning oil when penetrations happen...)
cinder escarp
When the Germans swapped stabs in the 2A5, they replaced their all-hydraulic system with an all-electric system. All modern designs are all-electric.
manic latch
(Also, as to why Abrams was designed as a build-to-cost machine, the past "build...
Why Abrams is cheaper
spring briar
Its made from wood krem
manic latch
What it sacrifice
cinder escarp
Cost cutting everywhere
There's no APU, despite the incredible thirst of the engine, because money.
There's no commander's thermal, because money.
There's no AC, because money.
There's no collective Nuclear-Biological-Chemical protection because yes, money.
spring briar
When upgrade packages become a necessity
manic latch
cinder escarp
The side armor is very thin to save weight and money, except where it has to be a bit thicker to meet the basic requirement. And they only protect the area that is absolutely required.
The minmaxed hull side armor looks like this.
manic latch
manic latch
The side armor is very thin to save weight and money, *except* where it has to b...
All or nothing 
cinder escarp
Similarly the frontal armor scheme is very unique. Instead of having NERA all over the upper front, the front is kind of trapezoidal like the old german designs.
manic latch
cinder escarp
And only the middle flat area has any NERA in it
Both the LFP and UFP are thin steel
The LFP relies on the fact that in practice, it can't be hit at anything resembling an angle that is going to penetrate.
And the UFP simply relies on extreme sloping to deflect incoming rounds despite its extreme thinness. The UFP is just 38mm thick but at 83 degrees.
This was sufficient to simply bounce any threat it was required to face, even though it's paper thin steel.
manic latch
Do you think Abrams replacement will cutting stuff again for cost
shrewd pecan
probably not
spring briar
This was sufficient to simply bounce any threat it was required to face, even th...
WAS sufficient
manic latch
Ngl this kinda killed my thing on Abrams. I thought she was way of going quality over quantity
Turns out that was MBT-70
spring briar
Then again early soviet apfsds was pretty iffy
Maraging steel with a tungsten penetrator core
shrewd pecan
didn't they smack another plate on the SEP IIIs LFP
spring briar
M735 is honestly such a funny design
Iirc it was based on the earlier cored APFSDS on the mbt-70?
cinder escarp
>WAS sufficient
I have, in other places, referred to it as the "killmeplease" UFP.
Because modern HEAT rounds all have graze fuzes, and long rods don't bounce.
cinder escarp
Maraging steel with a tungsten penetrator core
That is entirely what it was designed to defeat, in particular 3BM3
Which the DoD had decided was the best round the soviets could possibly produce in the near-mid future.
They used the APFSDS developed for the MBT-70 at a substantially reduced charge to 'simulate' it.
(During the whole cold war we had a frank refusal to admit that the soviets were ever anywhere but 10-15 years behind us, unless we needed to sell a program then we'd overhype them. But in general the analysis was always dismissive)
cinder escarp
didn't they smack another plate on the SEP IIIs LFP
I believe they have, but nothing has been done for the UFP, nor really can be done. It would interfere with the driver's hatch and cause clearance issues with the gun when depressed.
cinder escarp
It's the kind of fault you really just have to go to a whole new design for, to fix. Like cleavage on the soviet MBTs.
shrewd pecan
I believe they have, but nothing has been done for the UFP, nor really can be do...
I mean they could smack add on armor on top of it, tho I'm not really how much they could add without interfering with other parts of the tank
cinder escarp
I mean, even the brand new abramsX has the same killme UFP design
tough quail
cleavage?
cinder escarp
tough quail
im prertty sure i know what you mean i just wanna make sure i have the term right
cinder escarp
im prertty sure i know what you mean i just wanna make sure i have the term righ...
It's the joking term they used to refer to the cut-out in the frontal armor scheme for the driver.
tough quail
right
manic latch
AbramsX feels like Chal 2 Black Knight
tough quail
thought that was it, just making sure
manic latch
AbramsX feels like Chal 2 Black Knight
But a new turret and engine
cinder escarp
They couldn't solve it without simply going to a new hull design, as with 477/187
cinder escarp
Man, I remember when that conference happened.
I got those papers way before they leaked
Because uh
I know a tanker in the army
He has shared a number of things he trusts me not to leak, which baffles me (although I don't leak)
For what it's worth, he says that scuttlebutt at the time for concept three was for the new 'high energy' gun was to be a 155mm.
cinder escarp
Unfortunately.
I like some of the ideas, but it's held back by trying to save the current hull and some other questionable bits.
manic latch
Yeah same hull kinda killed for me
Tho they wouldn't call it Abrams if it was new right
Since it's literally new tank with it
shrewd pecan
spring briar
what in the pancake on a hull is that
spring briar
MF DIDNT EVEN HIT THE CENTRE OF THE TARGET
fierce sparrow
I'm abit annoyed with those weird looking sideskirts... I mean really GDLS?!?
spring briar
how many crew members?
tough quail
they could've at least put an extra road wheel on for the funnies
spring briar
7 axles
mf
tough quail
wait if its crewless why is the turret so fucking huge
cinder escarp
Of course it has 7 axles, it's just a modified abrams hull.
cinder escarp
tho seems smaller than the standard abrams turret
The Yamato mounts were smaller than the Abrams turret.
cinder escarp
"smaller than Abrams turret" is a lot like "shorter than the Bradley" in terms of AFV non-accomplishments
shrewd pecan
generic scifi tank
spring briar
guys I know where the 4th crew member went
they went to fetch the trophy APS
(don't shoot me)
subtle prawn
Transformational technology. The Abrams X is a main battle tank for the next generation, featuring reduced weight for improved mobility and transportability and delivering the same tactical range as the M1A2 Abrams with 50% less fuel consumption. The AbramsX’s hybrid power pack supports the U.S. Army’s climate and electrification strategies, enhances silent watch capability and even allows for some silent mobility. With a reduced crew size and AI-enabled lethality, survivability, mobility, manned/unmanned teaming (MUM-T) and autonomous capabilities, AbramsX can be a key node in lethal battlefield networks and serve as a bridge from Abrams SEPv3 and SEPv4 to a future tank.
spring briar
Leclerc still looks better
tough quail
fierce sparrow
Why muzzle brake tho
Normal Abrams doesn't have it
fierce sparrow
still curious whats the crew layout is gonna be.
And I hope they didn't follow what Rheinmetall did to the Panther.
manic latch
> Why muzzle brake tho
> Normal Abrams doesn't have it
Ah
tough quail
probably just three guys in the front armata style
strong plank
ok so basically
fierce sparrow
Armata... parade piece
tough quail
there's uh
strong plank
AbramsX is basically an Armata that doesn’t suck
manic latch
AbramsX is basically an Armata that doesn’t suck
What are the vital changes
tough quail
it still has the "please let me die" front plate and an american rendition of the fuckawful T-64 engine
cinder escarp
> Why muzzle brake tho
> Normal Abrams doesn't have it
They are using the XM360, and not the XM360E1 almost certainly because muh unmanned turret is light.
spring briar
Horse, listen up
what if
we take the 155 mm from the caesar
and we put it on a leclerc with 7 axles
tough quail
manic latch
Armata sucks
doesn't explain why
leaves
tough quail
regal moment
strong plank
doesn’t respond in 20 second
omg he gave up
tough quail
atm we've got american guns and sensors as a plus
most of the general conceptual plusses and cons of an armata/neo-abrams shared between them
aaaand downs syndrome engine and an awful front plate as a con
so on paper its about even or worse
well the 30mm is pretty good actually thats another plus
manic latch
well the 30mm is pretty good actually thats another plus
Ye
strong plank
Better autoloader, an RCWS, better sensors
ivory ridge
(don't shoot me)
I will 
manic latch
Better autoloader, an RCWS, better sensors
fair
strong plank
>Armata sucks
>doesn't explain why
>leaves <:Sadge:757500586777116752>
I was double checking to make sure Armata used a carousel before I bashed it
spring briar
guys I can go in the belgian army as an artillery officer and train on the new ceasar ng
should I do it
shrewd pecan
armata used a carousel
idk thing is never seeing service
so I don't get the fixation on it
spring briar
I mean it's a big upgrade from the T-90MS
let's get that out of the way
tough quail
it doesn't really have the usual crew murdering part of an actual carousel
manic latch
so I don't get the fixation on it
Doesn't it gives us idea on what Sep 5 might get?
shrewd pecan
I mean it would of been a upgrade over anything Russia has currently
tough quail
also hot take but the funny current events make it uh
more likely to go into service than not
shrewd pecan
since its not the same basics 1960s design upgraded to a extreme extent
manic latch
more likely to go into service than not
Oh yeah that video
tough quail
ass beatings usually lead to a much greater emphasis on unfucking yourself
frigid karma
treading the line here
tough quail
it's still going to take a huge surge in priority
frigid karma
can we talk about some older stuff
strong plank
Kinda hard to make a new tank with an unmanned turret when you can’t get chips
shrewd pecan
I'm doubting their basic ability to make the tank
tough quail
life finds a way
spring briar
no need to doubt it
the fact there's so few of them is proof that they are not capable of scaling up production
tough quail
especially with el funny javelin meme they're likely to exhaust every possible route to get their hands on it
spring briar
strong plank
even china isn’t bailing em out
shrewd pecan
I'm guessing they could probably strip down the design
spring briar
china cares more about money than russia
shrewd pecan
cut shit like the APS to make it more produceable
manic latch
China is also threatened by sanctions, they will keep that for their own funny move
shrewd pecan
tho, in its current form I'm doubting their ability to produce it
cinder escarp
no need to doubt it
the fact there's so few of them is proof that they are not c...
Without getting dangerously into politics like some people might...
The issues have more to do with the fact that, well, when Armata was first produced it was very immature and the original promised timelines were bluntly impossible.
cinder escarp
tho, in its current form I'm doubting their ability to produce it
The biggest single hangup isn't even the APS or any foreign parts. It's the engine.
manic latch
I'm guessing they could probably strip down the design
How about T-90M B2 or smh
Only 2000s tanks use new hull
strong plank
also are we assuming whatever they make will use sandbags, or actual ERA
cinder escarp
Although I can give a fun fact about some bits: the original 2015 parade Armatas? Had a lot of foreign sourcing in it. The guns were machined from raw blanks imported from France.
spring briar
manic latch
Yeah lot of stuff was from France. Like Thermals
tough quail
also a bunch of the sensors were french iirc
cinder escarp
RU did not begin production of 2A82 blanks domestically until 2020.
cinder escarp
(They had to set up a line to make them)
frigid karma
strong plank
Yeah the thermals are from Thales iirc
shrewd pecan
I'm going to roughly assume if anything is gonna have real ERA its gonna be the T-14
cinder escarp
Also, the Thales thermals that are widely used in RU hardware are no longer bought from France and haven't been for 10 years.
frigid karma
huh
cinder escarp
Thales sold them not just the design, but all of the production tooling.
shrewd pecan
they've been licensed produced for a bit
manic latch
<:frenchtroll:1027491140909416498>
Tfw when you sink/hurt most NATO warships while being in Nato thanks to Exocet
spring briar
I mean we left the NATO military structure for a while
tough quail
chads tbh
manic latch
Exocets are OP
spring briar
they were good
cinder escarp
But to be blunt, T-14 was immature when shown off prematurely, UVZ made a great many lies... and they had to replace foreign parts with domestic but got no extra money to do so which really strung things out.
spring briar
Uralvagonzovod moment
manic latch
But to be blunt, T-14 was immature when shown off prematurely, UVZ made a great ...
Yeah I didn't get the rush to show it too early, 2020s would be fine
tough quail
just showing it is one thing
shrewd pecan
rush to show it early is to likely source foreign partners tbh
cinder escarp
Remember how in the early days they had a 152mm armed version in the works? UVZ sold the MoD on that, and the ability to swap between 125 and 152 turrets was a key factor in it replacing the 195 project. But it turns out that was a complete lie.
tough quail
im just not sure what was going through the head of the dipshit that went YEEHAW TWO THOUSAND OF THESE IN LIKE THREE YEARS
frigid karma
a 152 version, now that's a meme
manic latch
Remember how in the early days they had a 152mm armed version in the works? UVZ ...
I thought Armata had bigger turret than normal for 152mm
tough quail
which would top like peak cold war production of both superpowers
cinder escarp
You can't just swap in a 152mm turret and it'd need a whole new variant, they had utterly lied to the MoD.
strong plank
I mean isn’t this a well-worn pattern
shrewd pecan
which would top like peak cold war production of both superpowers
I mean the US shat out 7,000 M48s in the span of like 3 years
strong plank
show off new tech
promise thousands to replace current stocks
build 5
tough quail
an M48 is not a modern MBT
shrewd pecan
fair
tough quail
its just a big steel egg
manic latch
152mm 2A83 on T-72
shrewd pecan
ammo capacity : 10
tough quail
thats just more barrel than tank at that point
spring briar
honestly
compared to the USN shitting out Fletchers
7000 M48's is nothing
nothing I tell you
manic latch
ammo capacity : 10
What about Object 262
Pls War thunder make it event vehicle
Need my 152mm
cinder escarp
152mm 2A83 on T-72
<:Prayge:886365734530326539>
spring briar
ah
cinder escarp
195 is pretty great, has everything
spring briar
the thing armata was based on
manic latch
195 gang
spring briar
T-95
cinder escarp
Armata was basically a rival internal project to the 195 by different guys in UVZ
Lower costs and modularity for the Armata is what got it to replace the 195 in development.
Of course, both "features" ended up being a bold lie, but the Armata devs won the internal battle.
shrewd pecan
What about Object 262
it has 16 rounds
shrewd pecan
I mean in war thunder
manic latch
Need to visit capture points alot
shrewd pecan
leopard players are already only running like 15 rounds
cinder escarp
What about Object 262
The last of the soviet LKZ programs, which I have basically called BURLAK T-80
manic latch
Yee
manic latch
The last of the soviet LKZ programs, which I have basically called BURLAK T-80
Commander optics
shrewd pecan
wasn't it France, US and Russia
spring briar
other than the US
cinder escarp
(because its turret design was the basis for the later burlak turret omsk came up with)
manic latch
The last of the soviet LKZ programs, which I have basically called BURLAK T-80
I think 1990s collapse was the worst time for Soviet military projects
Land
Lose 152mm MBT projects
Air
Lose Fifth gen fighter projects
Naval
Lose Supercarrier Ulyanovsk class and rest of ships under construction/planned
tough quail
i mean
cinder escarp
Almost every new RU system is built on old soviet incomplete programs
spring briar
your country collapsing tends to be the worst
manic latch
your country collapsing tends to be the worst
But things I counted are most vital stuff of today
Since nations still use their stuff from 1980-90 projects
frigid karma
https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372
france was doing a pretty good job in the middle of its schizophrenic seizure in the early 19th
tbf
tough quail
the carrier would be kind of useless
spring briar
france was doing fine
until the 7 years war
...
tough quail
the soviet navy came out the best of the bunch
submarines are what they actually need and they never really forgot how to do those in the breakup
manic latch
the soviet navy came out the best of the bunch
Yeah Submarines are saved
tough quail
cool PR tool, but as far as practicality goes, yeah just stick with the yasens and shit
strong plank
bring back 12" guns
manic latch
tough quail
qwerty at it again with the shite takes
manic latch
Carrier fans explaining why they look at plane launches more than the ships
spring briar
carriers are literally shoeboxes
frigid karma
ok and
spring briar
shoe boxes are not cool
frigid karma
can you launch a car out of a BB gun
no
can you launch car off a catapult onto a sub
shrewd pecan
I mean the Russian naval industry had quite the come back
frigid karma
case settled
shrewd pecan
until like 2014
strong plank
carriers are cooler anyways
Desert Storm be like “is it too much to ask for both?”
spring briar
can you launch a car out of a BB gun
depends on the car
shrewd pecan
when it fucked its relations with Ukraines naval industry
spring briar
frigid karma
can't be a very big one
spring briar
well you can compress it in the junkyard
tough quail
you just need to get creative
spring briar
frigid karma
then it's not much of a car anymore
manic latch
until like 2014
Ye also lost the Mistral class from France and engines from Germany
Had to try to go domestic
frigid karma
is it?
spring briar
Ye also lost the Mistral class from France and engines from Germany
I saw that mistral when I visited St Nazaire
shrewd pecan
Ye also lost the Mistral class from France and engines from Germany
Russia was the worlds biggest warship exporter
frigid karma
plus, you can actually host cool events on a carrier deck
shrewd pecan
then it lost key relations with producers in Ukraine
spring briar
uh
BB's are big
there's plenty of deck space
Carrier decks are like minecraft superflat
frigid karma
wdym, more prevalent?
manic latch
@shrewd pecan
Russian Osprey
Smash or Pass?
shrewd pecan
pass
manic latch
spring briar
manic latch
Here
spring briar
that's pretty bubba ngl
manic latch
It goes brrr
chilly osprey
164.7mm :p
spring briar
fun fact on the 164.7
it was mounted on some french river barges in WW1
and used to bomb germans
very cool
manic latch
wanna make a 164mm armed MBT?
What about
138.6mm of Malin on a tank
spring briar
well we'd have to make it smoothbore
which would increase the caliber to like 140
and ideally it would have to be over 50 cal long
which isn't possible if we bore it smooth
manic latch
Soviet naval guns on tanks
Su100y: Gnevny's 130mm
IS-7: her 130mm derived from a naval gun
Object 261: Kirov's 180mm on IS-7 hull
manic latch
frigid karma
krem
you'd literally bring up an obscure soviet artillery piece
rather than the 100mm d-10t
for naval derived guns
manic latch
rather than the 100mm d-10t
Tho I never understood that thing
Did it came from a 100mm gun OR 100mm naval shell
Like gun was designed around a shell?
spring briar
isn't that what you usually do
manic latch
Soviets are different Rich.
Other navies design their ships around guns
Soviets designed their guns around ships
spring briar
tough quail
its definitely not from a naval gun itself
spring briar
why
manic latch
That's why Kron fuckery of having 380mm and 305mm
manic latch
Oh yeah
frigid karma
kirov was more of a case of them making changes to a gun for a ship
and not
considering that they might need to also change the ship too
no?
spring briar
kirov was meant to have twin 203's
manic latch
kirov was more of a case of them making changes to a gun for a ship
Italians: Dude use 6 180mm on twin turret ok
Soviets: Tho I can make it 9 180mm if I can stash it between
British: Nah man 180mm too big use our 152mm
manic latch
So Kirov in theory had potential for
6 152mm
6 180mm
9 180mm
203mm?
spring briar
6 203
manic latch
honestly krem
you should've made it 3x3 203 mm
Why I feel that was Chapayevs
spring briar
chapaevs had a 2x2 406mm project
manic latch
Tho Chapayev is a obese Kirov hull with more armor
frigid karma
so a baltimore'd chapayev
manic latch
chapaevs had a 2x2 406mm project
That fake no?
frigid karma
manic latch
so a baltimore'd chapayev
Soviets never had much "heavy cruiser" concept weird enough
They called Kronshtadt heavy cruiser
Who's core begin with 254mm
tough quail
they just call battlecruisers heavy cruisers and dont really follow the treaty light/heavy cruiser split and encompass regular cruisers under light
which makes sense
manic latch
There is Project 66 (moskva in Wows, who was designed against DM class. Had 9 220mm
Is that heavy cruiser? Nope Soviets called her Medium cruiser
tough quail
because they werent part of that treaty
manic latch
There is Project 66 (moskva in Wows, who was designed against DM class. Had 9 22...
Because Stalingrad was the Heavy cruiser
manic latch
they just call battlecruisers heavy cruisers and dont really follow the treaty l...
Ye
tough quail
didnt richlelieu outrange fucking yamato or some absurd shit like that
manic latch
didnt richlelieu outrange fucking yamato or some absurd shit like that
Littorio did
Forgot Rich
spring briar
Littorio did outrange riche
frigid karma
considering even the most innoucuous comment with more than 10 replies usually devolves into barely sentient, racist name-calling
tough quail
yeah i know littorio does
frigid karma
spring briar
pretty sure krazny kavkaz outranges most bb's other than litto, yamato, bismarck and richie
in theory ofc
manic latch
Soyuz's range was 45.67km 
spring briar
supposedly
spring briar
224mm/150 ALVF project supergun had 128 km range
manic latch
/150
spring briar
manic latch
Gee I wonder
manic latch
Me after new Soyuz book
spring briar
made from a 100 cal barrel and a 50 cal smoothbore piece
they were going to use a 104kg shell to get a range of 150-160 km
but tested with heavier shells first
which showed issues so they didn't continue
ivory ridge
spring briar
this canon was made specifically to hit savoyards
ivory ridge
spring briar
true accuracy
manic latch
Blood flows to brain
manic latch
Secret desire of Tato
Gawd imagine this baby in War thunder
Trying to awkwardly kill open top vehicles with this gigantic body
ivory ridge
Oooh new Perun video
spring briar
frigid karma
M4 76 Sherman outside the Owen Sound armory
jesus christ, i saw one in my halloween candy when i was a kid
cgi of kaga going boom
ruby agate
Ah thank god (And Ghoulsen II for pointing out the club-list channel) I found the channel that is legitimately the only reason I installed this game
spiral cedar
Welcome, enjoy your stay
somber knoll
tough quail
the fact he even knows these namesmakes his stupidity more confusing
eternal veldt
Normans dont count according to him
Because its the norman vikings that invaded France and then invaded Britain
tough quail
and it has an actually positive score
please stop posting these so i can feel joy in my life
eternal veldt
Horse, I spared you from the rest of the comment chain already
It gets worse once WW2 gets involved
eternal veldt
...There's a rusted out mosin in [current events], but I'd rather not post that to make your day the worst
tough quail
i dont even believe thats not staged
because you can literally dig SKS' and AKs out of the ground in either country
eternal veldt
Whatever it is, the gun looks bad
tough quail
it'll buff out
strong plank
Yeah it ain’t just mosin’s
eternal veldt
@spring briar to your question earlier in al-lore
strong plank
AK guys be like “she still cycles just fine tho”
eternal veldt
Given that SoLs as a concept existed before then, safe to say that they, too, possessed more ships compare to Britain at the time
tough quail
regal swinging in a completely different stadium
eternal veldt
and though just wikipedia shit and not exactly helpful to the question, here are some numbers for the Revolutionary/Napoleonic era for all navies:
1st & 2nd rates (130–90 guns) 156
3rd rate 74s (70–90 guns) 408
4th rate (60–68 guns) 199
74 best grills
strong plank
regal swinging in a completely different stadium
No I’m just trying to crack a joke
subtle prawn
Port visit to Naples, 8–14 May 1935. In the foreground is the Italian cruiser Zara. At right are six contre-torpilleurs of the 2400-ton type moored with their sterns towards the harbour breakwater: the 5th DL with Tartu (no.1), Albatros and Chevalier Paul, and the 7th DL with Gerfaut, Aigle and Vautour. There is a second Italian heavy cruiser alongside the breakwater in the left distance. (US Navy NH86446, courtesy of A D Baker III)
spring briar
The good ol days
desert agate
Ah thank god (And Ghoulsen II for pointing out the club-list channel) I found th...
The titties didn't have any influence?
humble mulch
Photo dump of Stalingrad Fire Station, now to weather it
frigid karma
naisu
spiral cedar
Was it fought over heavily in the battle?
humble mulch
I have zero idea, couldn't find much online about it either but it's a cool thing to do
Anyone have a more modern history of this guy?
spring briar
manic latch
Say
What's the point of non carousel style autoloader
If crew is safe inside their cabin
I assume full hull is a available instead of a armored cabin?
desert agate
Carousel ammo explosion will send the turret flying making the vehicle entirely worthless even if the crew survives
Assuming AbramsX will be using a similar blow-out panel system as before the internal components of the vehicle will remain intact in the event of an ammunition detonation
That means all the expensive sensors and targeting equipment will remain mostly intact and the vehicle will be able to be returned to service
It will need a lot of work done on it in order to do so but at a tank you can fix is better than a tank you cant
desert agate
RAAF Beaufort found in Rabaul
ADF planning to recover and identify the KIA
Unclear when it was shot down at this point in time but likely in 1943-44
4 personnel believed to have been aboard when the aircraft was shot down
remote monolith
Kebon Kopi II Inscription of the Sunda Kingdom, lost in the 1940s due to WWII
it tells of the restoration of a Sundanese King to the throne in what expert think is 932 CE
indicating that the rule of Sunda was once toppled but then returned at that year
further, different types of matchlocks and arquebuses common in the SEA, arts from Civ IV mod
strong plank
What's the point of non carousel style autoloader
the US already has a space program, we don’t need two
manic latch
You know
I think Armata is possible now in War Thunder
Black Knight of British was example of tech demonstration tanks being possible for tech tree
Soo this year we got
AbramsX, KF51, EMBT
ivory ridge
ivory ridge
Black Knight of British was example of tech demonstration tanks being possible f...
the rooikat MTTD wasnt even complete and it's ingame so
that's not the reason those tanks arent added 
and the black knight is still a chally 2
just with an APS
not a whole new tank
tough quail
yeah thats a whole lot more actually concrete info on it
you're more likely to get weird shit like TTBs and obj 195s
probably within the next couple years as the options for top tier tanks is
just shy of empty
dusty kraken
Until someone gets salty enough to leak documents again
tough quail
even with that i mean
dusty kraken
Will the US finally designate the AbramsX as M2
chilly osprey
They will either continue to use the nth variant of M1A something, or arbitrarily move to M4 :p
strong plank
AbramsX is a technology demonstrator so I doubt the army will adopt it
tough quail
they'll go straight back to M1 blank and claim its so advanced it's fundamentally different from every tank they've ever made before it
strong plank
you’ll probably see some sort of new M2 design that uses features from AbramsX
dusty kraken
Plot twist: they go back to old tank designations and we get M-lots of numbers back
ivory ridge
m69420
also i find the fact that kremlin mentioned the "new" ariete together with the AbramX, Panther and Armate incredibly funny
tough quail
yeah because it looks way cooler than the rest
ivory ridge
tough quail
it do tho
i'd way it's a little close with the armata but the neo abrams and panther? miles better
frigid karma
Im expecting M1Ax tbh
manic latch
also i find the fact that kremlin mentioned the "new" ariete together with the A...
Bruh what else Italy can get as top MBT
That's their current best