history

[manic latch]

Cute tho

[ivory ridge]

Weird that it says 105mm

That's the 120 turret

[strong plank]

it smol

[ivory ridge]

A lot of these "converted" APC/IFVs with big guns on top do

[strong plank]

Also giving a light tank atgms isn’t the strangest idea imo

[ivory ridge]

It's because the very high flat side makes it look very tall

Boxes on wheels with big gun

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

lav-700 supremacy

[ivory ridge]

I think the main difference here is the turret to hull ratio

Converted IFVs have taller hulls where the turret seems to just be resting on it

While in the purpose built ones the turret actually looks like part of the vehicle

[cinder escarp]

RETVRN TO TVMBLEHOME

[humble mulch]

I think the funny NK tank looks cool even if practically speaking it's not the best idea, but I can understand the want to add ATGM launchers to it

[strong plank]

Wait is that North Korean? Thought it was south

[ivory ridge]

The one above is SK yes

We are talking about another one

[strong plank]

Ah

[ivory ridge]

This one has side atgms

I Think the version with manpads is another one

[strong plank]

Do they rotate out a la Bradley or just stay there

[ivory ridge]

This one has a whole mess on top

2 ATGMs, 2 MANPADS, double MG

[shrewd pecan]

we have no idea with that prototype tank

it just looks like a T-62 with a mock up turret on it essentially

[strong plank]

The one with side atgms looks like a poor man’s Abrams

Or at least the turret does

[shrewd pecan]

t-14 abrams

[frigid karma]

when?

[manic latch]

On such forums that spoke of it when it was revealed

Could be reddit as well of course

But now. Seems many "next gen" design does carry a ATGM some reason

[spring briar]

I wonder why

[shrewd pecan]

outside of NLOS ATGMs

[frigid karma]

i don't recall people insulting north korea for putting ATGMs on their turrets

[shrewd pecan]

I don't really see the point in tank mounted ATGMs

[frigid karma]

more so that it's NK and those probably don't even work

[shrewd pecan]

especially the kornets the North Koreans are smacking on theirs

[ivory ridge]

I dont actually remember of Any ATGM on new MBTs tho

[shrewd pecan]

that just leaves the tank more exposed during the travel time of the missile

[ivory ridge]

There is an high caliber RWS mania but not atgms

[spring briar]

If the gun gets knocked out you still got a weapon?

[shrewd pecan]

its a weapon that the tanks gonna have to keep itself exposed to keep on target

[ivory ridge]

The lynx has a 30mm and drone launcher, the MGCS a 30mm, the next gen abrams a 30mm

The only ATGMs mounted on a tank turret i can remember are on the israeli turret

[shrewd pecan]

I mean with the drone launcher you don't need to maintain a laser on target for the thing to work

[ivory ridge]

Which is for light tanks

[shrewd pecan]

and odds are the Israeli turret is also using spikes

[ivory ridge]

Like the tracked boxer and some wheeled vehicles

But thats one single turret

And not MBts

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/navalinstitute/status/1572591870156439553

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1956, the pilot of an F-11F Tiger managed to shoot himself down. After going into a dive and test-firing the 20-mm cannons, he inadvertently outraced the rounds and then crossed their path. The fighter took multiple hits, forcing the pilot to crash land.

Likes

112

Twitter · Sep 21, 2022, 2:21 PM

[strong plank]

Panther has some sort of launcher

I guess it would make some sense if they’re top-attack

Wait nvm those are for loitering munitions

[tough quail]

autocannons cool and good

[shrewd pecan]

ok but where’s the ammo storage

[strong plank]

Don’t Worry About It™️

[manic latch]

Ain't 6 ammo with auto

[strong plank]

Yeah I’m not sure

I’ll pull up the page and see if they say

[shrewd pecan]

External mountings might be ideal for the entire loitering munition and atgm mounting idea

I don’t really think taking up significant space internally is the best idea

[strong plank]

The Panther fulfils the core capability of “dominate and destroy”. With the Rheinmetall Future Gun System consisting of a 130 mm cannon, a fully automated ammunition handling system and the additional armament options of the HERO 120 loitering ammunition, the Panther has concentrated firepower for long-range strikes in multi-target engagements.

[shrewd pecan]

so 130 MM with barely any ammo capacity

[manic latch]

What if it's stored also in hull like Leopard 2

[shrewd pecan]

Suicide hull rack

[strong plank]

Yeah I’d have to guess it’s in the hull somehow

Dunno why they’d still show that off given uh

Recent events

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/systems_and_products/vehicle_systems/armoured_tracked_vehicles/panther_kf51/index.php

Maybe y’all can find more info that I’m not seeing

[manic latch]

The Panther is designed for a crew of three, supporting future force structures with reduced numbers of soldiers. Two crew stations are located in the chassis, with one dedicated to the driver and an optional station dedicated to a company commander, a drone operator or a wingman pilot.

What's a wingman pilot

[shrewd pecan]

I get the wanting to have the 4th crewmember, there’s a line to logic behind it, that’s a 4th dude that doesn’t have to be following the tanks as part of s maintenance company, it’s a 4th set of eyes in the tank that could man a second RWS and could take other task loads off of the rest of the crew

tho I don’t think taking up significant amounts of space internally for loitering munitions is the best idea

[cinder escarp]

The French have the right idea as to the crewing solution

Minimal crewed tank, sticking extra guys in a APC that follows the unit around for maintenance and other jobs.

[strong plank]

That’s where I think GDLS has the better idea

Having the capability to handle loitering munitions, but not having them mounted to the tank itself

I’m trying to find the image rn

[shrewd pecan]

I mean arguably you could smack one of these at the back of the turret

tho, I do agree the unmanned switch blade launcher is ideal

[cinder escarp]

Next generation of combat vehicles is arriving
2/3rds of the vehicles on the photo are decades old

[shrewd pecan]

Modern procurement baby

[strong plank]

I’m sure having it separate from the tank itself also makes logistics a tad easier

You can supply em separately and you don’t have to carry them around when they’re not needed

is it bad that I only now realized where the name switchblade came from

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/navalinstitute/status/1572651559510491136

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

It's #BatmanDay! The Navy once stated that if Batman had a warship, it would be the stealth destroyer USS Zumwalt. However, when the top-secret experimental Sea Shadow was finally unveiled in 1993, some observers thought it was a prop for a Batman film (or Darth Vader's yacht).

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 21, 2022, 6:18 PM

[manic latch]

Batman would go with a submarine

[tough quail]

or like a corvette

[humble mulch]

Pretty sure he has both of those

Lego wise he's got like a dozen small patrol boat thing

[chilly osprey]

@ivory ridge Quick question - how would you translate into English the detonator type 'Tipo Unico Riordinato'

[ivory ridge]

frick

[spiral cedar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/586216580463984650/1022222221231538186/Screenshot_20220921-140508.jpg

[chilly osprey]

Yeah, I ran into the same issue when I went looking lol

[cinder escarp]

"Type Unique Rearranged"?

[ivory ridge]

unique type rearranged is a very literal translation so i guess

[strong plank]

isn't the mg42's biggest problem the fire rate

[ivory ridge]

"Unico" could also be "Single" instead

as in the only one

[chilly osprey]

That is actually more how I was reading it. Single/consolidated

[ivory ridge]

yeah

but rearranged is kinda weird and not fully understand the context im not sure

[chilly osprey]

All I know is that it's a detonator type

See no.4

[ivory ridge]

hmmge

[spring briar]

@chilly osprey why are there French 164 mm APC shells in an italian memorial?

[chilly osprey]

Which memorial is it?

[spring briar]

Monumento degli Alpini ai Caduti delle guerre mondiali – Bergamo

Via Colle dei Roccoli, 13

[chilly osprey]

... that is very weird

They must have just put random shells around it, because it definitely doesn't make sense given the theme of the monument

It's possible that there would have been 164.7mm shells in Italian depots after the war if they had any to resupply French vessels during the first world war

[frigid karma]

Did alo just get an outage for anyone

[tough quail]

someone should inform this guy what .50 BMG does to anything it scrapes

preferably by test firing it at them

[spring briar]

a scrape by a bullet shouldn't do a lot tbh

a cut ofc and some bruising

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/ryszardjonski/status/1572585791486042115

Junsupreme (@RyszardJonski)

An interesting model of the K2NO or K2PL tank at the DX2022 exhibition.
There is no visible APS Trophy or KAPS, which were shown on earlier models. 360-degree camera system visible.

Likes

113

Twitter · Sep 21, 2022, 1:57 PM

[spiral cedar]

[manic latch]

Plot twist: This guy is a time traveler and actually saw this happen

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/navalinstitute/status/1572690765570277376

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1997, a computer glitch caused USS Yorktown (CG-48) to be dead in the water for almost three hours. The Yorktown had recently been upgraded through the Navy's "Smart Ship Program", but the propulsion system failed because the computers crashed after trying to divide by 0.

Twitter · Sep 21, 2022, 8:54 PM

[spring briar]

“And then they built a comically large shell, I tell ya it was the funniest shit I’ve ever seen”

[strong plank]

“Watcha got there?”
“A smoothie”

[junior trench]

MG42 eats ammo like a fat whore and will actively try to kill itself the whole time it's doing so

The barrel is constantly trying to off itself under the heat

[frigid karma]

lmfao, that's the best way to describe it

it's also terrible at its original job

suppressing

[junior trench]

And being WW2 Germany you don't get to use the fancy shmancy alloy barrels some nations get

So you must adhere to that rate/heat control

[frigid karma]

the MG42 is what would happen if you had a ten year old JRPG player try to design a gun

"maximize fire rate lmao"

[junior trench]

Or else you risk things like welding the muzzle end of the barrel to the muzzle booster

The MG34 is objectively a better MG, but is far more work intensive to make

[frigid karma]

go with fg42 instead

[junior trench]

That's even worse

[frigid karma]

why

[junior trench]

BARn't

[frigid karma]

well, when you're talking about german small arms

fg42 is pretty good

[junior trench]

Just use stolen Czech designs

ZB 53

[frigid karma]

only china is allowed to use it

czech weapons in anyone but nationalist china's arsenals is cringe

[junior trench]

It was designed to withstand five minutes of constant fire, after which time the barrel had to be changed due to wear.

Meanwhile the MG42

Oof ouch owie my barrel

[tough quail]

tfw you build your lmg to pass a dps check, not perform suppressive fire

[frigid karma]

typical german military

all 🐔 no 🥛

in case mods try to snipe me for nsfw

[manic latch]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/c-130-seaplane-should-fly-in-2023-says-air-force-specops-commander

B-52 sea plane next

[dusty kraken]

when you learn that a human will go down with just one hit from a 7.92mm rather than 20

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1572374363982135297

Northrop Grumman (@northropgrumman)

👀 https://t.co/U2Who6wi3f

Likes

5706

Retweets

1195

Twitter · Sep 20, 2022, 11:57 PM

[manic latch]

Ah B-21 reveal

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/navalgroup/status/1572645236001898496

Naval Group (@navalgroup)

[#DIDYOUKNOW] ⚓️ The FDI has been designed with outstanding upgradability to meet tomorrow’s challenges, both physical and digital. Our design standards include significant growth margins to enable these updates. #navgeek

Likes

210

Twitter · Sep 21, 2022, 5:53 PM

[spring briar]

[night heart]

but its so cool

[night heart]

imma save this

[spring briar]

if the MG-42 is so cool why does it need to switch out its barrel so much

[night heart]

because it got hot

[spring briar]

I don't think you got the joke

[night heart]

yeah i got it

you guys know about princess diana ?

the princess of wales

[spring briar]

died in a Parisian tunnel in 1997 trying to flee from the paparazzi

first wife of Charles former prince of wales

mother of william and harry

yes

[night heart]

idk what paparazzi is , but i just found about her and she is such an inspiration

[spring briar]

paparazzi is part of the press

taking pictures of celebrities

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/warshipporn/status/1572957123327270915

WarshipPorn (@WarshipPorn)

HMS Vanguard seen at South Africa, carrying King George VI on Royal Tour. Via The National Museum of the Royal Navy. [1800x1237] from /u/frostedcat_74 at #WarshipPorn ➡ https://t.co/2x08QlwSFo

Twitter · Sep 22, 2022, 2:32 PM

[manic latch]

Royal Yacht

[ivory ridge]

Royale with cheese

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1572892977932148736

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

American Rheinmetall Vehicles recently rolls out new Lance 5030 remote turret armed with 50mm XM913 gun for their Lynx OMFV infantry fighting vehicle offering for the U.S. Army's Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle program.

Likes

140

Twitter · Sep 22, 2022, 10:18 AM

[spring briar]

Rheinmetall

[manic latch]

Rheinmetall will rule the world

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/navalinstitute/status/1572971653847519236

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1951, HMS Unicorn became the first aircraft carrier to conduct a shore bombardment when she used her four twin mount QF 4-inch Mk XVI dual purpose guns to shell North Korean coast watchers at Chopekki Point.

Twitter · Sep 22, 2022, 3:30 PM

[manic latch]

3rd Type 075 LHD 'Anhui' to be commissioned soon

[fierce sparrow]

https://youtu.be/XzCkFUjuoE0

[unborn wyvern]

They technically sort of did as the SA-80 is a bulpup AR-18 which is an improvement on the AR-15

[junior trench]

Not an improvement

A cheapo barely related model to flog to nations short on money

Like Europeans, apparently

AR-18 derivative rifles are also seemingly cursed

[cinder escarp]

I wouldn't consider it "barely" related, but the AR-18 is very much a sidegrade to the AR-15.

[manic latch]

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/09/22/italy-air-force-chief-heads-to-japan-to-talk-next-gen-fighter-jets/

[ivory ridge]

At this point they should just merge Tempest and the F-X lol

[chilly osprey]

It very well may do so

[strong plank]

picture of Ford doing shock tests

[manic latch]

Weeeell

https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2021/05/13/despite-promises-uss-ford-heads-to-shock-trials-with-4-broken-elevators/

You can't break what's already broken

[strong plank]

The elevators weren’t broken, they were still being built and installed

hell that article even says as much

but you know, Forbes would never use a clickbait title for an article on mili-

[shrewd pecan]

Boeing sympathizers

[strong plank]

literally the only substance in the article is that the Air Force CoS wants to develop something new to complement the F35

[manic latch]

Weird. Media says it like they are broken

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2021/05/17/ford-ussgeraldrford-elevators-pia/6821621277121/

Another example

"Fixed"

[strong plank]

the rest is just the author calling the F35 expensive and worthless while citing no evidence or reasons

[strong plank]

Two are being tested and not yet delivered, while two more are in the "last stages of construction" and are "estimated to complete, certify and turnover later this year."

[manic latch]

Yeah why use "fix"

[strong plank]

it’s not that they were broken, it’s that they literally hadn’t been finished yet by the test

presumably because shock tests are a headache to reschedule given all that’s necessary to perform them

[manic latch]

Honestly tho. What's wrong with constructing these

[strong plank]

As is said in the articles, 2 were awaiting certification and 2 were still being built

[desert agate]

theyre very complex systems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8p1gUL6Yas

see:ammunition handling facilities on HMS Queen Elizabeth

[strong plank]

you generally want to sort out any potential problems you can before you install them onto the carrier

And you want to make sure they’re certified to be in working order before you run a full-ship shock test

you know, so if something breaks you know it was from the test

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgD0Mjp_w60

[frigid karma]

clickbait title?

military articles are usually even worse off than gaming journalism

[manic latch]

I guess

[frigid karma]

Look at pierre sprey lmao

fucking disgrace

[strong plank]

"well you see I once locked eyes with someone who had stood next to an F-16, so let me tell you how much more I know about it than you"

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/navalinstitute/status/1573331532500160514

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1970, TORA! TORA! TORA! premiered. The spectacular scene with a P-40 crashing into other fighters was an accident caused when the stunt radio-controlled plane went out of control. The crew seen running for their lives were not acting. The director decided to use the shot.

Likes

651

Retweets

195

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 23, 2022, 3:20 PM

[tough quail]

ayyyy

[spring briar]

@eternal veldt

Bougainville class interior (D'Iberville is the ship in question)

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2M48xmjZEs

https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1573220201277313027

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

More details

Likes

193

Twitter · Sep 23, 2022, 7:58 AM

[manic latch]

Wait...

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/ivan-pavlovich-soviet-soldier.html

[subtle prawn]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/09/germany-orders-600-ram-block-2b-missiles-for-german-navy/

[cinder escarp]

There's never been a good explanation as to why Newport News has been unable to properly build the elevators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNQAJuEvbAQ

They're fancy maglev elevators, but they aren't that complex.

The issue is purely that Newport News was unable to build the shafts to spec in terms of straightness and tolerance. Which is just pathetic.

[manic latch]

[cinder escarp]

https://news.usni.org/2019/10/25/worlds-most-expensive-warship-starts-sea-trials-after-more-than-a-year-of-repairs

"“We’re about 75-percent done with the entire project. We’re talking about in some cases [lining up] 70-ton doors and hatches,” Geurts told USNI News this week. “It’s not a technology issue. It’s a construction completion issue in terms of getting all the doors and hatches where they need to be.”"

Nice job HII

[ivory ridge]

talks of a shared engine and some systems was present since the start
the both the UK and Italy personally talked with japan

so really no reason not to other than some self imposed rules from japan that are mostly outdated

if those are even still present

meanwhile the FCAS

[frigid karma]

Who’s HII again?

[cinder escarp]

Huntington Ingalls Industries, former Northrop Grumman Shipbuilding.

Formed by NG's merger of Avondale (which they got when they bought Litton), Newport News (which they bought off the market in '01), and Ingalls (came with Litton with Avondale).

HII runs Ingalls and NN. It was spun off from NG because there were so many issues in the 2000s under Northrop Grumman that NG literally lost their shipbuilding contract with the USN.

It's just very impressive that newport news can't build a totally straight elevator shaft

[unborn wyvern]

Heh you said elevator

[dapper parcel]

It's just linear motor, not maglev
Tho I do wonder about its battle resiliency

[spiral cedar]

It happened

[tepid mulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3rIvoWsvXY&

Have soup lore

[frigid karma]

this belongs in #food

[spiral cedar]

It’s probably fine?

[subtle prawn]

Le Triomphant coming alongside a US Navy ship to take on dry stores; the photo was taken in the Western Pacific in early 1942. During this period she carried an unusual two-sided deceptive/disruptive camouflage scheme, in which the port side was painted to resemble a mercantile freighter. (US Navy NH 81738, courtesy of A D Baker III)

[frigid karma]

why is the lower part lighters?

shouldn't the upper part be lighter to blend in with the sky, and the lower part be darker to blend in with the ocean?

[desert agate]

Das not how the dazzle works

[spiral cedar]

It’s not dazzle

You can see a silhouette of a merchantman on the side painted on

[spiral cedar]

Shipgirls in body paint

[maiden citrus]

omaha in clemson cosplay

[spring briar]

very extremely epic

[maiden citrus]

like you

[eternal veldt]

Darker actually works, if it is night time.

And night time is arguably more deadly for a merchantman.

[manic latch]

Chinese New Generation of 8x8 APC with 30mm Caliber Auto Gun

Yeah next gen= cool lights

It's a must

[manic latch]

@spring briar

Want to feel agony?

[tribal mortar]

now better question for USN fans what was the first US ship with missiles
someone ask this in #al-general

any answers?

[desert agate]

USS Mississippi as far as I'm aware when she mounted an experimental RIM-2 Terrier system in 1953

[manic latch]

Uss Midway v2 1947

[desert agate]

Okay well

Yes

Technically

But she's not exactly fitted or equipped with them

[manic latch]

But

She had missiles

[desert agate]

True

[tribal mortar]

Hmmm... thanks for Info about this one...

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Look, ye mighty and despair

[spring briar]

do you want to die

actually, this isn't so bad as long as I can upgrade the armor
especially on the turrets

for all the KMS' issues I still regard the German 15" gun as a good gun

[frigid karma]

does the bat count as a missile?

[tribal mortar]

I dunno tho? but the answers, I think, have been provided above???

[spring briar]

[zealous vine]

When did American naval doctrine of aft aviation facilities instead of amidships applied to ships?

[spiral cedar]

For cruisers, effectively after the New Orleans

[zealous vine]

What about Alaska?

[cinder escarp]

Alaska is just a strange boat

In every regard

The cost of a BB, built like a big cruiser, lots of subcontracted parts including guns that were mostly made by the army...

[zealous vine]

Huh.. understandable

[cinder escarp]

It never should have been built, but it was a pet project of some VIPs

[strong plank]

It was designed to counter some supposed Japanese super-cruisers, but by the time it was commissioned the IJN wasn’t really really in any state to field its competition

[zealous vine]

ig the only significant thing it can do is probably being cheaper than a battlecruiser?

[humble mulch]

I don't think Alaska was cheaper then a battlecruiser, it also got a lot more later war stuff compared to all of the other battlecruisers as I'm pretty sure all of them were made/stared prior to the war

[zealous vine]

but i mean it's not so big of an advantage..

[humble mulch]

her guns cost $1.55mil each and were they most expensive bought by the US in ww2

and they made 2 of these things

[cinder escarp]

Alaska is a battlecruiser, in the original "ultimate cruiser bully" sense

[zealous vine]

well, it would probably be more expensive theoretically if any battlecruisers even survived after the war, let alone even modernized

[cinder escarp]

Her design rationale is literally the same as the Invincible class.

[zealous vine]

I personally would think, proportion-wise, large cruisers are a class of their own

but other than that, pretty much a battlecruiser

[frigid karma]

counterpoint: alaska is a cool name

[zealous vine]

it is though

[strong plank]

given the us navy didn’t reuse the battlecruiser designation from the Lexingtons, it makes sense to call em large cruisers

Lexington and Sara were tentatively designated CC-1 and CC-2

[tough quail]

but that's kinda just an appeal to authority

the usn are the ones who made the mistake of making a new designation for no reason

[spiral cedar]

They're upscaled Baltimores with cruiser subdivision and build standards, funded out of the cruiser budget rather than the capital ship budget, used as cruisers

[tough quail]

and doctrinally they're still just battlecruisers

[spiral cedar]

No

[tough quail]

and honestly everything you just said was a mistake

[spiral cedar]

"cruiser killer" is a usage not a ship classification

Doctrinally, heavy cruisers were cruiser killers

[eternal veldt]

Re: Midship Hangar Catapult Practice

BuShips preferred the amidships location. The after
turrets could be lowered (in one case, a full deck
height) and weight saved thereby; the former hangar
space aft could be subdivided for better survivability. That is, the larger hangars of earlier cruisers
were close to the waterline, and when flooded would
sharply reduce the effective waterplane area of the
ship. The bureau also argued that recovery of aircraft
would be simpler and under closer supervision from
the bridge. The General Board agreed, and in characteristics for a new light cruiser (21 August 1940)
specified the new location, with stowage for six aircraft. A similar practice was followed in the proposed
new 8-in-gun cruiser and the Alaskas.

In connection with the Cleveland design, comparative studies of aircraft located amidships and aft
were ordered in August 1940 by the assistant secretary of the navy. BuAer considered it an advantage
of the amidships location that aircraft could be
launched in heavier weather because of the increased
height of the catapult, although the handling area
for additional aircraft would be limited; it was an
added benefit that aircraft on the catapults would
be better protected from the blast of the cruiser's
guns. On the other hand, as would be proven within
two years, aircraft amidships were a severe fire hazard; appropriate stowage space alongside the forward stacks might be difficult to provide because of
the heat, which would damage doped fabric surfaces;
the aircraft themselves were exposed to a greater fire
hazard from stack gases and incinerator exhaust; and
all except two aircraft would be exposed to the weather
owing to the limited size of the hangar that could be
fitted. On the whole, BuAer preferred catapults aft.
This arrangement allowed all aircraft to be stowed
in the hangar (for better maintenance and much less
exposure to rain and corrosive sea air); reduced fire
hazard, both to the aircraft and to the ship; made
aircraft handling less congested; made it easier to
bring aircraft aboard, given the lower height of the
stern catapults; and made cross-deck launching possible, so that the ship did not have to change course
to catapult aircraft

This is why CA-B also went back to the amidship catapult design.

[strong plank]

Honestly the way I think about BC vs CB

Battlecruisers stem from a capital ship concept but move down towards cruisers

Large Cruisers stem from the cruiser concept and move up towards capital ships

[eternal veldt]

Weren't the Battlecruisers "large armoured cruisers"?

The Invincibles were listed as so prior to receiving the designation "Battlecruiser".

[spiral cedar]

DAC, Dreadnought Armored Cruiser

[spiral cedar]

Doctrinally they were neither used as the Germans and Japanese used battlecruisers (fast wings of the battleline) nor as the British used battlecruisers (hunting down cruiser squadrons independently of the battle fleet)

The US used heavy cruisers doctrinally as cruiser killers, which governed their design and armament. The Alaskas filled the same place in the fleet, just against the next generation of enemy cruises that never materialized. Due to their greater size and firepower it made sense to give them a classification above the older, smaller cruisers, hence CB

They're meant to be rolling around in the fleet alongside Montanas, Iowas, Midways, Des Moines, Worcesters, etc. The fact that the war ended a bit before some of these could be completed doesn't change the fact that it's of a generation larger in size than previous

[cinder escarp]

Eh, they're specifically built as a response to a Japanese psuedo-BC design that really only existed in the dreams of bad US intel reports

The USN never changed cruiser designations as size went all over the place before.

[spiral cedar]

I don’t find either of those terribly convincing. The imaginary Japanese ship can hardly be definitively classified as a “pseudo-BC” over, say, a large cruiser, and the design they did select (B-65) they regarded as a cruiser. And the fact that the CB designation did not previously exist does not disqualify it any more than the designations of heavy and light cruiser designations not previously existing either

[tired flower]

The smallest aircraft carrier in the world which is actually heli-carrier

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420567649253326860/1023440322065334342/IMG_2759.png

[maiden citrus]

jaba holding down the fort as I sleep

also lol they're trying to correct the people there with the ship

[dapper parcel]

Tbf a short look at the hull design should be pretty obvious that they're a cruiser and not a battleship...

[tired flower]

USS wingham bay

[dapper parcel]

On the other hand the classification dissonance is reminiscent of how US Tank Destroyer doctrine and design concept was completely different than most other nation's TD.

[eternal veldt]

Funnily enough, Japan came up with the B65s afterwards.

There were some wild plans to fit them with the older 36cms too, though it remained only as a possibility.

[ivory ridge]

Heli carrier with harriers clearly present on deck

[tired flower]

Nowadays that harriers aren’t in service anymore so there’s only seahawk and other helicopters on it

So sad

Idk why they retired them

[ivory ridge]

because it's thailand and they dont have the money

[tired flower]

Real

[tired flower]

Also RTN don’t have to use the plane to fly surveillance in the gulf of Thailand

Actually I know why they retired but I just feel sad

Like the Us retired some av8b or Japan retired the F-4EJ

[ivory ridge]

The US retired their Harriers because they are being replaced by either F-35s or full heli complements on their LHDs

[tired flower]

Sadly the F- 35 vtol landing is worse than harrier

[ivory ridge]

[tired flower]

My eyes hurt 👀

[ivory ridge]

Thematic posting

Can you spot the training harriers

[tired flower]

The two seat?

[ivory ridge]

Yeah

5head fuckers

[tired flower]

Ha I got it

Well is this Príncipe de Asturias ship?

[ivory ridge]

1st and 4th pics are Garibaldi, 2nd and 3rd are cavour

[tired flower]

Okay

[ivory ridge]

My beloved

[tired flower]

Big

[cinder escarp]

Yeah, the IJN program absolutely existed but what the USN thought through their intel was basically a true proper IJN style battlecruiser, basically a Kongo replacement. It's not that the IJN weren't working on their own large cruiser, but that the USN thought they were working on a new battlecruiser. It was built to fight a ship very different from what the IJN was planning, and in fact once the Alaskas got underway the IJN considered revising the B-65 in response.

[stiff mauve]

Didn’t the whole IJN BC program end with Amagi?

[desert agate]

This is the late 30s program not the early 20s

[shrewd pecan]

helicopter carrier?

things a royal yacht at this point

[subtle prawn]

Le Fantasque on 30 May 1936, when the 2nd Squadron was reviewed off Brest by President Lebrun. Note the hyphen before the number ‘10’, which marked her out as an ‘Atlantic’ ship, and the single white band on the fore-funnel denoting the 10th Light Division. The swallow-tail tricolore pennant of the officer commanding the division is flying at the foremast top. Le Fantasque’s two divisionnaires were L’Audacieux (-11) and Le Terrible (-12). (US Navy NH 86554, courtesy of A D Baker III)

[spring briar]

[tired flower]

Yes

[shrewd pecan]

its unironically mainly used as a royal yacht at this point

[tired flower]

Only its name

[tired flower]

nowadays it will be using when natural disaster happen

[shrewd pecan]

eh, never realized KDX-III Batch 2 is switching over to Phalanx from Goal Keeper and Searam

[junior trench]

why would you drop SeaRAM...?

[shrewd pecan]

no idea, it seems the render of Batch 2 had the Searam, tho it seems they gave her dual Phalanxes instead

[manic latch]

The fock

Missiles are always superior to guns

[shrewd pecan]

probably just had them on hand

[spring briar]

Ok where are the missile based man portable anti infantry weapons?

[manic latch]

why are you using ciws as anti infantry

Just get the 127mm do the job

[spring briar]

You said missiles are superior to guns

[manic latch]

Yep

[spring briar]

M4 is a gun right

Mk23

MCX spear

[manic latch]

Well you can drop a tomahawk on infantry. Cost is the problem tho.

[spring briar]

No

Missiles are superior to guns at scale

[manic latch]

Look rich. Gun ciws are inferior to missile ciws. Especially with current missile threat

[spring briar]

Im not talking about ciws

Im talking about firearms

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

the hot dog launcher, pacifies enemy troops cuz they have to eat

[spring briar]

I hate blanket statements

[junior trench]

would def work on Russians

[junior trench]

.

[maiden citrus]

it'd work on me

[spring briar]

Maka is cute

[maiden citrus]

except I'd out eat the fire rate

[spring briar]

Just bomb them with pictured of maka

They will make peace

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

Whered everyone go

[maiden citrus]

[dapper parcel]

Goalkeeper is basically EOL now

[junior trench]

@maiden citrusdo you think I overdid it on the torpedo belt?

TDS: shell//3.5 feet void//0.75"//3.5 feet void//0.75"//3.5 feet liquid//0.75"//3.5 feet liquid//0.75"//3.5 feet void//0.75"//3.5 feet void//1"+ holding bulkhead

[maiden citrus]

....nah looks good

I've only made one that absurd

[spring briar]

I would just change the innermost bulkhead to a 40mm one and then it should be perfect

[maiden citrus]

I had one that was shell/3 feet/1''/3 feet/1''/3.25 feet/1''/3.25 feet/1'' inner

[junior trench]

it's 1" homogenous armor + the usual ~19mm bulkhead

[maiden citrus]

so vaguely similar

well 3.25 feet per inner layer when I went and checked

[junior trench]

so ~44mm as the final

[spring briar]

Hmm

[maiden citrus]

of course the same ship also had 8.5 feet torpedo bulge outside this

it was, undoubtedly

a fat fuck

[junior trench]

total depth is a bit over 6.4 meters per side

will happily eat the same type of torpedo as NC did

to almost no effect

[maiden citrus]

a ship after my own heart

[zealous vine]

I dont think Harugumo would be a likely design successor to the Kitakaze (although, we are dealing with a fantasy design afterall).

I read the Akizuki was quite sluggish, but solved it on Kitakaze by slapping Shimakaze's propulsion system in it. I don't think they want to make her successor sluggish again just to add minimal additional firepower (especially just for 100mm). I know I'd sound dumb, but what would a Kitakaze successor look like?

[maiden citrus]

because my total depth with the bulges is also 6.4m

21 feet is what's listed

[spring briar]

Richie and NC would be proud

[junior trench]

6.4m all internally

[maiden citrus]

yeah that's pretty beast

[junior trench]

also beefy angled belt

Main belt extends 12 feet above waterline to armor deck, 8 feet below waterline.
Actual belt height is 12.69 feet above waterline ,8.46 feet below waterline, total 21.15 feet
Main belt is 18" above waterline, tapering to 8" below

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

I just knew I would strap bulges to mine in construction

[spring briar]

18”

Tf are you packing as main guns

18”/47?

[maiden citrus]

bro did we

[junior trench]

Deck is 6.5" main + 2" weather/bomb deck + 1.5" splinter deck

[maiden citrus]

make the same ship

[junior trench]

12x16"/50s

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

Barbettes end at armor deck 12 feet above waterline, 20" thick along 270 degrees, 12" thick along 90 degrees, 11.03" avg

[maiden citrus]

mine is 18'' and is 12.24 feet above water

[spring briar]

Does it use the mk.8

[junior trench]

yes

[spring briar]

Good

[junior trench]

69k tons standard

nice

[maiden citrus]

I only have 5'' main + 1.5'' weather though deck

and I am not using 16''

I put 4x4 14''

[spring briar]

So ye sounds fine but would just put a 40mm bulkhead in the TDS
It’s not out if necessity it’s just out of psychological reasons

[junior trench]

?

there is a 44mm bulkhead

at the very back

[maiden citrus]

my ship is a lot smaller as a result, probably a ton slower too ofc

[spring briar]

Oh

The holding bulkhead?

[junior trench]

yeah

[spring briar]

Well then its fine

[junior trench]

25.4mm Class B on 19mm STS

[maiden citrus]

since this is a 37.5k ton ship

[junior trench]

or just 44mm STS

depending

[maiden citrus]

36k standard

[junior trench]

also equipped to fit 20x2 3"/50RFs for the future

goes to sea with 20x4 40mm Bofors

[maiden citrus]

mine's a 1920s design so aa is meh

[junior trench]

also has 20 5"/54s

[maiden citrus]

14x2 3''/50s and four quad chicagos is the aa

which sure for 1925 is phenomenal, but

[junior trench]

12 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm 54.0 cal guns
40 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns
48 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 70.0 cal guns

some of the 20mm will probably get replaced in clusters by single 3"/50RFs

[maiden citrus]

http://puu.sh/JmZVa.png

probably gonna gain weight when aa evolves

[junior trench]

28 knots

15k mni @ 15 knots

[spring briar]

What are you countering

[maiden citrus]

oh yeah much faster

[junior trench]

it's "Monty the Yamato fucker 2000"

[spring briar]

Nice

[maiden citrus]

18 knots with 10,000 miles at 10 for me, which is where the weight was saved

of course this ship is also miniscule

[spring briar]

I suppose it will focus on long range FC radar assisted deck fucking

[maiden citrus]

even ss says this thing will eat a dozen torps

[junior trench]

Yammy would need to close to 16k yards to put a shell through this Monty's belt at a perfect 90 degree target angle

[maiden citrus]

what's the belt angle?

[junior trench]

-19

[maiden citrus]

nice

[spring briar]

Theres absolutely no need to let yammy close

[maiden citrus]

mine's only 12 cuz older design and smaller dimensions, so it's external

[junior trench]

I have enough beam to do the funny angled external

that was on actual Montana

[maiden citrus]

yeh, my beam outside bulges is only 104

so probably can't fit an external 19 degree belt on it

it'll also probably need a little more deck slapped on in a 30s upgrade with more aa to stay absolutely relevant

[junior trench]

Yammy needs to be over 34k yards away to get through the main deck at all, assuming you ignore the upper

[maiden citrus]

5'' main is good but the belt to deck is lopsided due to time period

[junior trench]

but then it still needs to burst well enough to beat the splinter deck

[maiden citrus]

the bulges give a ton of floatability though so

it's doable

[spring briar]

Im not worried about your montana withstanding yamato tbh

Especially with splinter decks

[junior trench]

if you wanna see something funny

behold, the power of dummy thick Class B

[maiden citrus]

lol

kinda sad this naval roleplay ended before I could make something crazier

[spring briar]

Maka

[maiden citrus]

I was already ahead of irl in some factors I hyper focused on so was stocked with meme machines

[spring briar]

We could

Together

[junior trench]

oh my

how lewd

[spring briar]

Like at Yorktown in 1781

[maiden citrus]

with our azur lane beds next to each other in dorm?

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

16" Mark 8 is such a threat

[spring briar]

We should make the entire ship out of the same steel the SHS is made of

[maiden citrus]

we had a treaty for no 16'' guns right before this was designed, we signed the treaty because keeping people's guns small keeps our ships more dangerous

[junior trench]

full on 4k yards more dangerous to the belt

[maiden citrus]

since we were the world's armor nerds

so this has 18'' belt with 12 degree angle against 14'' guns at best

and 16'' guns if someone pulled a japan

they're screwed either way

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

and then so many 14'' guns itself it will absolutely mission kill you

[junior trench]

KGV would need to get within 10k yards

rip

[maiden citrus]

lmao

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

my nation got a couple 16'' armed ships built before the treaty went into effect, so we just assumed everyone else did too

and built armor for the next ships to tell 16'' guns to sit down just in case

not everything is peachy though because I wanted turbo electric and we were not good at engines

I had I think 3 classes fail engine trials

and have to be fixed in a refit

[junior trench]

time to force old Soviet 12" to try to fight Monty

[maiden citrus]

like we aimed for 22 knots on one class and got like 19

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

[maiden citrus]

we cannot into speed

[junior trench]

cannot

straight up cannot

[maiden citrus]

lol

eventually after all the builds and trials and fixings of trials we could build turbo electric engines that met our speed ranges

[spring briar]

Are you surprised

[maiden citrus]

but god forbid we try to design an engine that goes over 26 knots

[spring briar]

You’re asking quite a lot from what is basically a SAP shell

[junior trench]

I was hoping for something at 0 yards

[spring briar]

Maybe some spalling

But idk about that

[junior trench]

now time for a Guadalcanal Smackdown

[spring briar]

Try alaska’s 12”

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

[spring briar]

sub 10k

I see

[maiden citrus]

spooky

[junior trench]

Littorio's 15" has such a long max range that it actually can flung far enough to start falling steep enough and fast enough to be a threat to the deck lmao

[spring briar]

a 18" belt does that to a mf

[maiden citrus]

also helps me with how tanky mine would have been even if the angle is less

[junior trench]

just need to score a deck hit at... 37.5k+ yards

[spring briar]

I'd take that graph with a grain of salt

try dunkek

[maiden citrus]

what does a nelson gun do to this

since that's probably about the strongest gun I'd encounter

[spring briar]

Nelson gun will only be an issue at sub 10k I'd say

but let's see

[junior trench]

dunkek

[spring briar]

what an angled belt does to SAP

[maiden citrus]

lol

[maiden citrus]

that's the goal

[junior trench]

Nelson

[maiden citrus]

about 15k huh

note this would be nelson's as issued shell

cuz this is... 1924

[spring briar]

don't forget this doesn't take aof into account I think

[maiden citrus]

perhaps

[spring briar]

Maka chan

[maiden citrus]

yeh?

[spring briar]

17" SHS with rebated boat tail

and dye charge

[junior trench]

the germoid 16" makes an attempt

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

cleve testing peepoo pre ww2 shells against Montana kai

[maiden citrus]

well it's also useful to see that even what would probably be about the strongest shell in the world

needs to close to 15k

[spring briar]

aside from 12"/50 mk18 ofc

that's a WW2 shell

[junior trench]

I mean

[spring briar]

Nelsol?

[junior trench]

I showed it vs 16" Mark 8

[spring briar]

or germoid 16"

[junior trench]

^

[spring briar]

add that to the mk18

[maiden citrus]

yeah since this ship will be finished building around 1926

and I doubt any ship would want to close to that distance to a 4x4 14''

[spring briar]

I'm still internally debating whether deck punching or belt fucking is more worth

[maiden citrus]

what's nelson's deck pen chart

[spring briar]

ok maka it's time to make the UHS

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

a shell that won't care about belts as much as it doesn't care about decks

[maiden citrus]

nice

so immunity is like 15k to 29k

[spring briar]

likely to be better IRL

[junior trench]

the graph doesn't account for the inability for anyone but the USN's shells to function beyond like 30 degree obliquity as well

afaik

[maiden citrus]

true

[spring briar]

British shells have very precise (alleged) fuse timers so the upper deck will save you

not that you'd need saving tho

[junior trench]

well

the upper deck is a weather/bomb deck

so there's room for shells to come in and avoid it

[spring briar]

ik

should still work

and the main deck is there too

is there a bomb deck?

[junior trench]

Deck is 6.5" main + 2" weather/bomb deck + 1.5" splinter deck

though tbh I might be better off doing 7/1.5/1.5

[maiden citrus]

maybe

[spring briar]

I mean

7/1.6/1.4

[junior trench]

the big funny of a 6" Class A belt meaning IJN 15.5cm needs to be closer than 2k yards

[spring briar]

or

wait actually

is there a deck under the main?

[junior trench]

yes

[spring briar]

gud

[junior trench]

the splinter deck is under the main

the main is at the top edge of the belt

and the bomb deck is at the very top

[spring briar]

ok nice was about to flip otherwise

alright for the UHS I'll need some funky metallurgy

and burster volume will be funky

[junior trench]

flatnosed tungsten time

[spring briar]

well

this is my blank

406mm 6.88 caliber

[junior trench]

[manic latch]

Gigachad Gangut vs Monty

Hmm.
Can you try Japanese 510mm this time

[spring briar]

basically it will not care for decks nor belts

now I gotta read a course of ballistics to see where to put the driving bands

[spring briar]

@maiden citrus

[maiden citrus]

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

According to Western publications and the Internet, a version roams that such shells to increase the firing range were made from semi-armor-piercing shells mod. 1911 adding a ballistic tip and reducing the weight of the projectile from 470.9 to 455 kg by removing part of the TNT and installing a 25-cm wooden cone into the cavity. However, this version is just a legend. Armor-piercing and high-explosive 12-inch. shells arr. In 1907, at the initiative of Colonel Rickam, the Finns, together with the Swedish company Bofors, equipped it with a long ballistic tip, which sharpened the nose and increased the length of the projectile by 1.4 klb. The weight of the shells increased from 331.7 to 355 kg, for them the Finns used charges weighing 137 kg, which gave the shells an initial velocity of 900 m / s. Such modernization made it possible to achieve a record range of 42,900 m (235 cab) on experimental firing from the Soviet railway transporter TM-3-12 restored by the Finns at an elevation angle of 49 °! All shells were equipped with TNT. Interesting, that in all 12-dm. shells, the Finns changed the fuses to their own, samples of 1933 and 1936.

According to Western publications
just a legend

System of storage and giving 12-dm. shells in the bomb magazines was completely changed relative to the original for the 14-dm. shells. Racks for shells were not made, but they were stored in piles in the so-called "Belgian way".

🇧🇪

[maiden citrus]

wat

[spring briar]

idk maka

[maiden citrus]

the legend of documented data

just a myth

it never happened

[spring briar]

I'll take a look at the info and make my own opinion on it

[zealous vine]

Have shells from the same ship ever collide with each other mid trajectory when salvo firing

[spring briar]

it is possible but not to my knowledge

though the chance of it occurring is a statistical anomaly in any case

[zealous vine]

Huh.. cool

[strong plank]

Does the gyrojet count

[spring briar]

no

that's an unguided rotated rocket projectile

and it sucks

[spiral cedar]

Yes

W-what if our shells kissed in mid-air…haha jk…unless…

[junior trench]

[subtle prawn]

https://youtu.be/gDs3U-yvVNM

[junior trench]

short answer?

yes

long answer?

yyyeeesss

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/AWMemorial/status/1573779474881171463?t=T_c-dxNr12AnDPuPaJb8Vw&s=19

Aust War Memorial (@AWMemorial)

#OnThisDay 80 years ago in 1942, HMAS Voyager was grounded and destroyed at Betano Bay, Timor, after a strong tidal current pushed the ship parallel to the shore, lodging it on the beach.

Learn more: https://t.co/oeNdbv70aZ

Twitter · Sep 24, 2022, 9:00 PM

[spring briar]

for real
lol
that's some powerful suction

[thorny plaza]

Certainly interesting

[spring briar]

oh hi

[thorny plaza]

Hiiiii

[spiral cedar]

Welcome

[thorny plaza]

^-^

[alpine onyx]

So there is a precedent for turret whip

Only read about it on some German blueprints, but otherwise no thoughts spent on that

So it was kinda like searching a ghost

[spring briar]

I was of the opinion it wasn't that common if at all
especially with medium to small caliber naval guns

[spiral cedar]

Twins need their bore separation

[thorny plaza]

Was this especially noticeable on the northhampton class
Their barrels are quite close together

[spiral cedar]

It was on all the US 8" triple cruisers until delay coils were fitted

[alpine onyx]

Germans went with delay coils so turret whip should've been heavy

But never really noted

[thorny plaza]

Ah

[alpine onyx]

But when they saw greatness in 1927 they positively noted reduxed turret whip when having barrels close together

[spiral cedar]

Yep, reduced torque

[alpine onyx]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/621103843106881556/811154830411169852/unknown.png

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

it's all about levers

[spiral cedar]

Flashback to teaching my students about simple machines

[spring briar]

pulleys

[alpine onyx]

Teach them about explosions

[spring briar]

checks fb
sees richelieu post

bad gunnery platform

[spiral cedar]

Angriest Murm I've ever seen

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

👀 hello USS Canberra

[thorny plaza]

Haiiiii

[desert agate]

fren bote

[junior trench]

[spring briar]

406mm UHS

internals will be revealed soon

[spiral cedar]

May as well make it a shaped charge at this rate

What's your weight estimate?

[thorny plaza]

Oooo

[spring briar]

Will come with weight numbers in a bit

[spring briar]

no

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

there's no point in not trying as long as I can keep the nose pointing forwards during flight

the only real issue I can see is torque while passing through material

[spring briar]

4145 lbs

[spiral cedar]

Same weight of cap and windscreen as the normal SHS?

Or are they longer and bigger

[spring briar]

I estimated with the same cap as the SHS

[spiral cedar]

mkmk

[spring briar]

I'm not even convinced a big cap would be needed with a shell like this
just a cap that will keep it at its angle of attack

[spiral cedar]

If fired with the same muzzle energy as the 16"/50 Mark 7 (likely an underestimate since the shell will be in the barrel longer), the muzzle velocity will be about 2020 fps

Out of the older 16"/45 Mark 6 (again likely an underestimate) it would have a MV of 1860 fps

[spring briar]

hmmm

what kind of cap..

[spiral cedar]

And out of the UK 15"/42 Mark I it'll have a MV of 2800 fps with supercharges according to some people

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

shaped charge with a followthrough charge

BROACH shell

do it

[spring briar]

I'll do that once I got this figured out

[junior trench]

and give it rocket assistance

and guidance

yeah...

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

how fast did human torpedoes go?

3 knots

💀

[celest fractal]

Are MBTs just Heavy Tanks with Medium Tank mobility?

[spring briar]

no

[celest fractal]

[spiral cedar]

Motor Torpedo Boats?

No, they are not tanks

[celest fractal]

fixed
Typo

[frigid karma]

What defines a heavy tank?

[celest fractal]

Heavy tank is a term used to define a class of tanks produced from World War I through the end of the Cold War. These tanks generally sacrificed mobility and maneuverability for better armour protection and equal or greater firepower than tanks of lighter classes.

[tough quail]

generally its agreed upon as heavy tank level protection, heavy tank or better firepower, medium tank mobility and weight

[frigid karma]

the terms of heavy tank and medium tank are kind of obsolete now with MBTs though

[tough quail]

the wikipedia requirements are superheavy firepower, heavy tank protection, medium tank weight and light tank mobility

but that uh

literally does not exist

[frigid karma]

like there are only two classes of tank now

light/recon, and MBT

[strong plank]

Wasn’t the whole point of the MBT concept that you no longer needed to invest in multiple types of tank

[tough quail]

qwerty this is relative to ww2

the MBT thing came in right afterwards

also yes a core feature is that an MBT is supposed to be your end all be all tank

[frigid karma]

I know this is relative to ww2

[tough quail]

though nobody really followed that until the late 50s

[frigid karma]

I think the thing is

People could slap more armor onto an MBT until it's much better armored and slower

and call it a "heavy tank"

but heavy tanks have been kind of useless ever since late ww2

Too expensive, too heavy, too maintenance heavy compared to other stuff

[tough quail]

completely different discussion and not really relevant to what the guy is asking

[strong plank]

plus aps offers a much better alternative to slapping on more heavy armor

[tough quail]

but really most of the world considers a centurion to be the first MBT

so your answer is essentially

"an MBT is something with equivalent protection/mobility to a panther, a better gun, and actually works when you try to drive it"

[spiral cedar]

Don’t you mean the Paaanther??

[tough quail]

panthers effectively a proto dipshit mbt

[frigid karma]

the renault ft is an mbt tank

[spiral cedar]

MBT is when you minmax all your armor onto the front

[tough quail]

given a centurions side armor

yeeeah

[frigid karma]

Doesn't that make the panther an MBT then?

considering it was getting penned by stuarts at kurks in the side

[spiral cedar]

“kurks” sounds like a slur

[tough quail]

it do

also a centurion is literally just a panther that actually works

same general armor profile and everything

[frigid karma]

ye

the thing about the FT is, it has comparable armor to the other tanks of its time

[spiral cedar]

FT-17?

[frigid karma]

ye

but it's far more flexible in the field, and has a turret

[tough quail]

the designation largely just makes no real sense

[spiral cedar]

Gun is worse tho

[tough quail]

they're just super medium tanks

[spiral cedar]

Medium but Better Tank — MBT
Makes perfect sense to me

[tough quail]

even the doctrinal role wasnt set into stone until much later

because the us, uk and ussr were all using heavies alongside them

if you want to be really stringent about it the first mbt would actually be like

a fucking chieftain or a t-64

cause at least then they get the yuge death guns and the conqueror/t-10m are retired

[manic latch]

IS-7

Yeah Cent is likely the first ish

[spring briar]

@spiral cedar

[spiral cedar]

Lil’ burster

In principle there should be a lil’ notch on the side of the AP cap on which to screw the windscreen

[spring briar]

50% higher than SHS burster

[spiral cedar]

I assume it’s there and just hard to see with my current resolution

[spring briar]

I just left it out bc lazy

[spiral cedar]

Ah

[spring briar]

I can probably downscale the AP cap a bit since I've got so much shell to work with

[manic latch]

Yo Rich. Do you have real image of half cut naval BB shell

[spring briar]

anyways now that I made all other naval guns obsolete

[spiral cedar]

Except for AA I guess

[spring briar]

shit

[manic latch]

On my way to travel back time and give this to Ganguts

Actually

Tell me Rich

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

If Kirishima had these shells on same guns

Would she best Sodak

[spring briar]

yeah

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

but not really since her hoists can't handle them

@spiral cedar the W/D³ is exactly 1

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

imagine using a bismarck shell

to scale with shell guy

@manic latch will do Soyuz shell tomorrow

[manic latch]

Thank

[spring briar]

I just realised

The twist rate on my rifling is gonna have to be insanely tight to stabilise it

[dapper parcel]

Will that shell even manage to be in one piece when it meet any form of resistance?

[frigid karma]

Richy is firing screws

[junior trench]

progressive rifling time?

[hushed saffron]

Slap fins on it?

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/AWMemorial/status/1574262640616038400?t=vOrgRlF0Zlhe8KFdEe_g7w&s=19

Aust War Memorial (@AWMemorial)

Today marks the 105th anniversary of the battle of Polygon Wood. The British and Empire troops suffered over 15,000 casualties, more than a third were Australians. Today we remember all those who died in the battle of Polygon Wood.

Learn more: https://t.co/XTIJLnzPNw

Twitter · Sep 26, 2022, 5:00 AM

https://twitter.com/AWMemorial/status/1574141851946389504?t=CRF7lFa5uAg2QPeC8VxIbg&s=19

Aust War Memorial (@AWMemorial)

#OnThisDay 105 years ago in 1917, Sergeant John Jack Dwyer was awarded the Victoria Cross for his actions at Polygon Wood on 26 September 1917. https://t.co/b2MrSgFsPn
Image: Studio portrait of Sergeant John James Dwyer VC, 4th Machine Gun Company. 044843

Twitter · Sep 25, 2022, 9:00 PM

[spiral cedar]

Sometimes I wonder how Zimm got assistance from Okun in 1990 to generate the penetration tables for Action Stations!, and then gave Bismarck's shells better deck penetration than North Carolina

[maiden citrus]

the mysteries of the world

[cinder escarp]

Clearly the [CONSULT_OKUN] action comes with a diceroll

[spiral cedar]

I’m tempted to email Zimm and ask him how to modify his 32 year old abandonware game

I very much want to edit the gun values the way I can edit the armor values

(why did SD have an internal belt but Iowa did not?)

(why did Richelieu have over 13 inches of deck armor?)

[maiden citrus]

wat

that's not even being a wehrb that's just lmao

[spiral cedar]

(why does it say armor quality is taken into account, and then have no quality difference between Nagato, Colorado, and KGV belt armor?)

(why is New Orleans’ belt better than Brooklyn, which is better in turn than Cleveland?)

[maiden citrus]

[spiral cedar]

Also apparently latewar, max level radar and fire control equipment gives only 2k yards extra effective range over optical

The core system is great but the actual stats are wonky

[maiden citrus]

I too remember when west virginia had only 2k yards more effective range than yamashiro

[subtle prawn]

Albatros at Casablanca in 1942, wearing the hull number ‘X73’. Hull numbers were re-painted in brick red from early 1940 to reduce the visibility of the ships. In addition to the standard AA modifications Albatros has had her two 75cm searchlights relocated to newly constructed platforms forward of the third funnel, and a third, smaller 60cm searchlight has been fitted on the foremast platform. (Pierre Boucheix collection)

[somber knoll]

USS Nevada BB-36 anchored in Lahaina Roads, Hawaii during Fleet Problem XXI - 1940

Original Color Picture

LIFE Magazine Archives - Carl Mydans Photographer

@maiden citrus SHONEN intensifies.

[maiden citrus]

fantastic

[spring briar]

Nou

[somber knoll]

USS Enterprise CVN-65, christened in 1960, passed the USS New Jersey at the Golden Gate Bridge, San Francisco?.

when you realize that NJ personally knew both Enties

[somber knoll]

Lead Ship, Dreadnought Battleship USS Pennsylvania pictured from the Golden Gate Bridge.

[maiden citrus]

[somber knoll]

Lead Ship, Dreadnought Battleship Courbet pictured at Toulon on January 4th 1914.

[spiral cedar]

What’s the caption?

[somber knoll]

Lizzie off the coast of Australia

[spring briar]

130 mm shell smth smth uh

[spring briar]

@manic latch

[manic latch]

Thank you

[spring briar]

internals soon

[manic latch]

You need rewards Rich

[spring briar]

I work for free

[spring briar]

@manic latch

[manic latch]

Just love that space in balistic cap

[spring briar]

wait I think I forgot a plate

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

ok nvm it's correct

might slightly modify the angles on the cap and tip

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

@manic latch

Update

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

@manic latch SAPC next

[manic latch]

I guess you can't make the HE and Super Long Range shell since they weren't developed because of ww2

[spring briar]

do you have any info on them

or was it just for the B-37 mount

[manic latch]

no. Just know they were planned for Soyuz

[spring briar]

I have also found all the imperial russian and soviet 305 variants

[manic latch]

Even Stalingrad?

[spring briar]

no but I know what it looks like

all in all Soviet shells seem to be a combination of Italian and German practices

including some other nation's traditions

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Post refit Kirov in Stockholm 1967

Got her radars

Kirov firing at enemy forces 1944

@tough quail
Other AL fans: Yo Refits make ships cool we need them.

Voroshilov's refit: AUUUGH

This poor girl was a Kirov class

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

You just have to get the right refits

[manic latch]

I love my post war refit Kirov

[spring briar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/623233419047862292/734524311687266395/Fl_165_landing_aboard_KMS_Koln.gif

@manic latch found russian 12" shrapnell shell

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

barrel life of 60 shots with 455 kg "heavy" AP

[manic latch]

A small price to pay for salvation

[spring briar]

I found a 367 kg shell for the very oldest russian pre dreadnoughts but navweaps doesn't list it