history

[spring briar]

merde

c bien ça

[ivory ridge]

la creatura

what a weird vehicle

[dapper parcel]

French scout looking absurd, what's new?

[ivory ridge]

AMX-10 still in service while the Vextra was rejected

why live

[spring briar]

Good question

[ivory ridge]

You vs the guy your girl tells you not to worry about

[shrewd pecan]

shame honestly, Vextra is a extremely nice looking vehicle

[ivory ridge]

8 wheels >>>> 6 wheels

[shrewd pecan]

Never liked the IFV variant tho

[manic latch]

12 wheels>>>

[shrewd pecan]

always disliked how the French designed their wheeled IFVs looks wise

They smack these extremely small turrets in them that just look awkward

[manic latch]

Isn't small turret good thing

[manic latch]

More space for crew

[shrewd pecan]

depends on what you want the vehicle to do

I dislike it from a looks viewpoint

[manic latch]

I see

[shrewd pecan]

Tho if your making a vehicle capable of carrying a entire squad yet maintaining a auto cannon it’s a workable solution

oops that 2nd image was the VBCI

[dapper parcel]

Sensible turret for APC tbf

[shrewd pecan]

never really liked it on the VBCI either

such a small turret on such a big vehicle

again design wise it’s perfectly acceptable

looks wise it just looks wrong to me

[manic latch]

Is portholes useful

[dapper parcel]

Looks aside, didn't French mechanized infantry squad recently changed into 8-person unit

Wait, that's the entire reason for VBCI isn't it?

or was it the other way around

[shrewd pecan]

VBCIs carry 8 dismounts, 9 if you count the commander

tho that's the same amount as the AMX-10P

[eternal veldt]

Unless you have artificial air ventilation or intend to suffocate your crew to death, yes.

(Or turn your ship into a giant floating gas bomb, in the case of Taihou and Lexington)

[dapper parcel]

What period we're talking about? Imagine not CBRN-proof in 21st century

[desert agate]

M113AS4s having a turret so small the commander can't fit in with anything on their plate carrier

[brisk bay]

Damn this place is bombing

[desert agate]

Bombing Belgrade yes

[manic latch]

Dinosaur time

[remote monolith]

found a rather blatantly pro-Imperial Japan movie about the Indonesian Independences @royal quail @gilded girder https://youtu.be/vWQx1I2MTjE

among the hilarious shit I find:

the Japanese are potrayed as benevolent saviors of Asia
omitting the multiple anti-Japan rebellions in the Dutch East Indies by 1945
no mention of atrocities like the Romusha or the Pontianak Masssacres
the fact that the red-white flag was not allowed to be flowned by the Japanese administration is seen as a positive thing

then there's a scene where some PETA soldiers talked like this:

"Kami tatakau sebagai Indonesia guntai melawan rengougun. Taichou, tatakatte hoshii bersama kami!"

[royal quail]

What the fuck

who made these?

who the fuck made it?

WHEN?

[remote monolith]

the Japanese, back in 2001

[royal quail]

[remote monolith]

honestly that dialogue is the worst thing about the movie because it sounds like a terminal stage weeb

[eternal veldt]

Japan gud, Dutch bad

(Do not let Sanglune read this.)

[spring briar]

[dapper parcel]

"Kami tatakau sebagai Indonesia guntai melawan rengougun. Taichou, tatakatte hoshii bersama kami!"

I... what?

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

https://gagadget.com/en/weapons/165642-us-may-give-up-70-f-35-lightning-ii-fighters-to-invest-6-billion-in-next-generation-engine/

[dapper parcel]

inb4 P&W getting it again

[tepid mulch]

In a totally radical world where everything is swing wing

Yeehaw

[celest fractal]

[ivory ridge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr4FhwkCZUI

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLaJVsATUXo

@remote monolith some indonesian history from the 2004 boxing day tsunami

[remote monolith]

ah yes

horrible times

[tepid mulch]

Ah right

I was a kid when I watched that on TV

I think

[frigid karma]

but silver

sanglune is gone

[manic latch]

"Anakin is gone. I'm what remains."

[subtle prawn]

The Savannah is assisting the Allied amphibious landing at Salerno on the Italian mainland, firing on enemy tanks, and conducting counter-battery fire on a railroad artillery battery. It is targeted by a German Do 217 bomber, which releases a Fritz X and guides it towards the Savannah. Unable to evade this guided munition and it traveling too fast to be intercepted by the onboard anti-aircraft guns, the Fritz X slams into the Savannah’s C turret, crashing through multiple decks before exploding.

The entire turret crew is killed immediately, and the damage from the Fritz X spreads to the lower ammunition handling section of the ship triggering follow-up explosions. In all, 206 sailors are killed in the attack, and 15 more are seriously wounded. Though damaged heavily, Savannah’s damage control crews contain the flooding and the fires, stopping the ship from sinking. While still afloat, the Savannah requires heavy repairs. Though this is the first time a US ship has been struck by a Fritz X, it is not the first time the Fritz X has been used in combat.

The Fritz X made its combat debut this past summer, and notably a few days ago back on 9 September the Italian battleship Roma was hit by multiple Fritz Xs as it was on its way to surrender itself over to the Allies. As a result of the extensive damages sustained, the Roma sank off the coast of Sardinia, taking 1,253 of her crew out of 1,849 down with her.

Picture: The moment a Fritz X slams into turret C of the USS Savannah, 11 September 1943
Source: U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command - #NH 95562```

[manic latch]

@tough quail Look at this beauty

It was an experimental project. Soviet M-62 Diesel engine on MZKT chassis

Sadly this baby barely has any documentation. It's unknown if she still exists today

Irrc. This design was for transporting workers to locations hard to reach

So why build railways when you can give wheels to the train

[tough quail]

da

add more wheel

[maiden citrus]

bote

[tough quail]

da

add more funnel and turret

[maiden citrus]

fast bote

[spring briar]

Unarmoured brigade

Clemenceau seen from the sky (duh)

[shrewd pecan]

I can’t believe it

[desert agate]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-03/40-years-of-solid-rock-goanna-indigenous-rights/101375490

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1569153227786002433?t=av_k_cf0Wp_MqpRFFmXt6w&s=19

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Launched in 1931, the FDNY fireboat John J. Harvey was decommissioned in 1994 but saved from the scrapyard by volunteers who turned the boat into a museum. On Sept 11, 2001, the boat was rushed back into service to pump water in lower Manhattan due to the fire mains being damaged

Twitter · Sep 12, 2022, 2:37 AM

[frigid karma]

the

the licorice boat

[spiral cedar]

This passage is from Alamein by Jon Latimer. “The Principles of War” podcast has a 4-part series on the use of artillery at 2nd Alamein, in particular the crucial role of the Australian gunners and commanders (episodes 88-91) for those interested in hearing more.

[strong plank]

https://youtu.be/Sl8ZPyWGkrg

[tired flower]

US Navy UCAV is looks like.........

[gilded girder]

Lookin like those paper airplanes I folded in primary school

[spiral cedar]

Probably slightly more expensive, though

[strong plank]

I know at least that top pic is a few years old

[tired flower]

well it actually looks like MQ-101 from Ace combat 7

[tired flower]

yeah

https://tenor.com/view/ace-combat-arsenal-bird-mq101-drone-fighter-jet-gif-20467470

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

the MQ-101 was based off of the X-47B

[tired flower]

yep

[shrewd pecan]

sadly the X-47B and the X-47C are likely never gonna see the light of day

priorities got shifted from surveillance and strike to purely refueling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-25_Stingray

[tired flower]

so sad

😭 😭

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of carrier UCAVs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baykar_Bayraktar_Kızılelma

look towards the Turkish

with the USAF and Aussies looking into similar systems as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratos_XQ-58_Valkyrie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-28_Ghost_Bat

[desert agate]

ghost bat isnt planned to have carrier capability currently

[shrewd pecan]

probably should of specified that there similar non carrier systems

for the XQ-58 and MQ-28

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/ron_eisele/status/1569009673688301571?s=20&t=jzhGT1q6DL4b9mazvZtnpg

Ron Eisele (@ron_eisele)

Kingfisher recovery, USS South Dakota

Likes

424

Twitter · Sep 11, 2022, 5:07 PM

@chilly flower

[ivory ridge]

Ariete AMV prototype PT2 with the improvements in the turret

[manic latch]

Pls Gaijin

[spiral cedar]

The two British gunboats engaged the Germans with their 6 in (150 mm) and 12-pounder weapons, but the enemy fire was so accurate that they were forced to withdraw. USS Endicott, with only one 5 in (130 mm) gun in operation, opened fire from within 1,500 yd (1,400 m) of the enemy ships. The Germans switched fire from the gunboats to Endicott and hit her, wounding one man, the only American casualty. Although a dud, the shell tore a large hole in Endicott's side. In an engagement that lasted just under an hour, the Americans and the Germans dueled at close range until both the corvette and the yacht were sunk. The Allies then resumed their bombardment of the city. When later asked why he engaged two enemy vessels, Captain Bulkeley replied, "What else could I do? You engage, you fight, you win. That is the reputation of our Navy, then and in the future".

[frigid karma]

tis but a scratch

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

interesting

[shrewd pecan]

https://twitter.com/chen_yenhan/status/1569434537276612608?s=46&t=l0_7c__4ldXCTn7RlowR4w

陳彥翰 Chen Yen-Han (@chen_yenhan)

The first images of the M1A2Ts for the Taiwanese Army have been released.

The M1A2Ts are based on the M1A2 SEPv3s, with FMS armor replacing depleted uranium armor. The tanks will first equip the elite 542nd "Rapid Thunder" Armor Brigade based in Hukou, Taiwan.

Twitter · Sep 12, 2022, 9:15 PM

[somber knoll]

btw, I have something to ask:

Does Attack Aircraft basically become a catch all/umbrella term for planes other than fighters and pure bombers post-WW2? I'm asking because by the time the term went on vogue, previous aircraft such as dive bombers have become obsolete in their role

Shout out to @chilly flower

[frigid karma]

I think it should be strike aircraft

[somber knoll]

I figure it's a bit interchangeable? but yeh you get the gist.

[shrewd pecan]

strike aircraft is the catch all for basically all multirole aircraft

attacker is mainly just for the dedicated CAS platforms

technically you can fit aircraft like the F-111 and F-117 into the attacker role

Tho the F-117 was more a bomber than anything

and the F-111 sorta just covers multiple bomber/attacker roles

[manic latch]

A-10/Su-25

[shrewd pecan]

more like MANPAD bait

[manic latch]

He did asked about dedicated Cas

[shrewd pecan]

tho I suppose recent conflicts kinda prove that dedicated attackers can survive in contested air space environments just with a less than ideal survival rate compared to other types

[manic latch]

Well they do fly low
Got armor compared to other
And usually has an ideal target

[tough quail]

just throw a tarp over them while they're in the air so the enemy cant tell what they are

[shrewd pecan]

I mean long range SAMs don’t really matter if you’re basically hugging the ground

[manic latch]

Yep

And dedicated Cas are usually cheaper right

Compared to multi role stuff

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

Not necessarily

[manic latch]

This is why A-10 and Su-25 will stay based and in service no matter how many haters they have

[shrewd pecan]

again the A-10 is a aging platform with a no longer active production line

[manic latch]

So when it will retire?

[shrewd pecan]

hopefully soon

[manic latch]

Surely not before the F-22

[shrewd pecan]

again I don’t believe the A-10 is useless I just believe it’s past it’s prime

[manic latch]

Prime of dedicated CAS. Oh boy we can even go back to ww2

Il-2 my beloved

A-38 was too good for this world

Only two build but

Can't go wrong with 75mm

Using B-29 engines too

[strong plank]

A-10 should definitely be gone before the F-22 imo

since the F-22's replacement is still being developed

[manic latch]

B-52 with new engines

[strong plank]

whereas there are already other platforms to replace the A10's CAS role

[shrewd pecan]

mixture of light attack craft, multi role fighters and likely drones could easily cover its role

Drones already have the loiter time USAF just needs something with equivalent payload

[somber knoll]

Remote-controlled Super Warthog

the only remaining reason the A-10 is in service is its payload yeh.

IIRC even as way back as 2001-2002 Predator drones can be equipped with light CAS, but on the level of A-10 payload, not yet.

[shrewd pecan]

I mean the primary issues are payload and responsible response times

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_Mojave

The Mojave might have potential

tho I suppose conventional aircraft could response timely

[somber knoll]

"responsible response times" So input lag apologies for the lame joke.

Nonetheless, I would say that regular aircraft will still have place.

[shrewd pecan]

If the airframes weren’t 40+ years old I’d argue converting the A-10 into a unmanned platform wouldn’t be the worse idea

tho I don’t really think life extension is the best idea for the A-10 fleet

[somber knoll]

agreed. unless there was a recent branch development of a new airframe with the A-10 platform (which it wasn't), it quickly becomes obsolete.

[frigid karma]

So apparently

The Soviets had a full auto battle rifle by the winter war that wasn’t the federov

The AVS-36

Select fire too

[dapper parcel]

If there's one role that benefit the most from unmanned platform, it would be CAS
High risk environment

[tough quail]

yeap

was canned in part because the soviets realized full auto rifle caliber was awful for standard use

which is why the succeeding svt from tokarev didnt include it

[frigid karma]

lady & gentlemen

the quora post to rule them all

"why didn't they just rush B[ritain]???????"

[maiden citrus]

submarines not part of fleet actions?

what if submarine was fleet

we will meat you in north atlantic tommarow, be there or be square

[eternal veldt]

When the Bantai Kessen theorist has a child with the wehrb:

But eh, this joke doesnt quite work, they shouldnt procreate

[maiden citrus]

huh? it's fine, the japanese are honorary orions

[spring briar]

How thin would you like these shell walls?

-“Da”

[spiral cedar]

HE?

[spring briar]

Even the SAP and AP tbh

[spring briar]

When the first British investigation team examined the wreck of Tirpitz on 21-22 May 1945, they noticed a huge dishing of the hull above the bilge keel. The dishing in the outer bottom plating extended over an area of 15 x 5m, the maximum inboard deflection at the center being about 83cm. They naturally assumed this damage had been caused by a near miss Tallboy.

However, when the British returned in September 1945 and spent 40 days on a thorough survey of the wreck and the surroundings, they found on closer examination that this damage had in fact been temporarily repaired. The bomb had caused splits in the welding over a considerable area and these splits had been made watertight by driving in steel liners and welding on patches under water. The repair had been continued from inboard after pumping out the compartment.

Damage to plating and frames was extensive, and no attempt had been made to alter the shape of the bulge in the bottom plating. Instead, fabricated transverse frames had been built around it on the inside. It was concluded that this damage was the result of a near miss during the Fleet Air Arm attack in Kaafjord on 3 April 1944 (Operation Tungsten).
Picture from the first investigation team’s report. The boat and the sailor in the picture are German – part of the German salvage team.

points at faulty double bottom

[spiral cedar]

@spring briar Any info on if the APC M1924 was actually issued to ships?

If so, why modify the M1912-1921 to use K dye bags in 1940?

Wait, misread that

Second question still applies tho

[spring briar]

That would imply using the Bretagnes together in a fleet

[spiral cedar]

Didn’t misread it actually

So both questions apply

[spring briar]

I’d have to check chambers on the BB barrels to see if it would fit

But I can’t concretely say it was used on the BBs

The modification of the Mle.1912-1921 would suggest that that was used over the mle.1924

But it could also just be to bring the older APC up to modern MN standards

[alpine onyx]

Not quite sure how a normal double bottom ship would have handled a 6 ton bomb exploding right next to it

which kinda applies to a lot of things that happened to Tirpitz

[spring briar]

I mean

define "right next to it"

[alpine onyx]

like I don't think any other battleship had four tons of explosive go off underneath

[spring briar]

Terre Neuve was actually right next to Dunkek

and we see what that did

not trying to dis tirpitz here
just showing that the double bottom failed exactly where the fault is

[alpine onyx]

Hmm, a Tallboy would have 2.5 tons of Torpex, which would be like 3.8 tons of TNT equivalent

[spring briar]

any info on exact point of impact

and depth

[alpine onyx]

I'll dig through the diaries

[spring briar]

meanwhile I'll dig for jaba and then make an excell of the 130mm of the Le Hardis

[alpine onyx]

oh hey, there is a dedicated report for Operation tungsten

[spring briar]

I love that Navweaps states something but then doesn't list a source

very helpful

[alpine onyx]

Trust me bro

[spiral cedar]

W/D³, Post Dreadnought AP
[SAP or Common used when indicated]

18" Furious (8crh) - 0.569
16" Nelson - 0.500
15" Queen Elizabeth (early) - 0.569
15" Queen Elizabeth (interwar) - 0.574
14" KGV - 0.579
13.5" Orion (early) - 0.515
13.5" KGV (early) - 0.569
12" Dreadnought (early) - 0.492
8" Kent [SAPC] - 0.500
7.5" Hawkins [SAPC] - 0.474
6" Tiger - 0.601
6" Leander [CPBC] - 0.519

16" Colorado (early) - 0.515
16" Colorado (mid-interwar) - 0.547
16" North Carolina - 0.659
14" Nevada (early) - 0.510
14" Nevada (mid-interwar) - 0.547
12" South Carolina - 0.503
12" Alaska - 0.660
8" Pensacola - 0.508
8" Baltimore - 0.654
6" Omaha - 0.486
6" Brooklyn - 0.602

18.11" Yamato - 0.542
16.14" Nagato (mid-interwar) - 0.535
14" Kongō (early) - 0.510
14" Kongō (mid-interwar) - 0.541
7.87" Furutaka - 0.497
8" Takao - 0.542
6" Agano [Common] - 0.463
6.1" Mogami - 0.543

14.96" Bayern - 0.494
14.96" Bismarck - 0.527
12.01" Helgoland (early) - 0.515
11.02" Nassau - 0.495
11.02" Lützow - 0.494
11.02" Scharnhorst - 0.544
8.27" Blücher - 0.420
7.99" Admiral Hipper - 0.527
5.91" Königsberg - 0.486

14.96" Richelieu - 0.582
13.39" Bretagne (early) - 0.496
13.39" Bretagne (early interwar) - 0.509
12.99" Dunkerque [SAPC] - 0.563
12.01" Courbet - 0.545
8" Duquesne - 0.576
6.1" Duguay-Trouin [SAPC] - 0.549
6" Emile Bertin [SAPC] (late interwar) - 0.583

15" Littorio - 0.578
12.6" Conte di Cavour - 0.578
12" Dante Alighieri - 0.577
10" San Giorgio - 0.500
8" Trento - 0.539
7.5" San Giorgio - 0.475
6" Condottieri - 0.509

[spring briar]

noone:
Jaba: 13.39"

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

ohno
after 1934, when dye bags were being added to french shells in service, they also looked into powder visible at night
which contains phosphorous

[spiral cedar]

Powder visible at night?

[spring briar]

yes

[spiral cedar]

As in, on bursting, or muzzle flash, or glow-in-the-dark?

[spring briar]

glow in the dark

[spiral cedar]

WHAT

why

They didn't actually do it right

[spring briar]

they scrapped that and went with the contact detonation method instead as you can see on richie so no

[spiral cedar]

Okay good

[spring briar]

kekw

why would that be so oh nyo

hol up
French 340mm coastal batteries had an option to fire the shell to a height of 22km to encounter minimal drag

[spiral cedar]

Yeh, coastal guns get higher elevations

Take advantage of lower drag

[spring briar]

look at that juicy elevation

[spiral cedar]

And also deck pen memes

Time for 16"/50 high angle coastal guns

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/515583624083406848/709563128991580170/image0.jpg

[spring briar]

love my french radar fc 340mm high elevation coastal artillery

USN 16" coastal batteries were also radar FC by 1943 i guess?

or 1942

idk

[spiral cedar]

dunno

[spring briar]

by 1943 there was like 0 threat of a japanese invasion

[spiral cedar]

Yeh

and radars are still needed by the fleet

Also turns out mainbat RPC didn't get put on the fast BBs until starting Feb 1943

And for various reasons NC only got hers in 1944

The 5" batteries got them right away tho

[spring briar]

people forget the USN in practice became what they think it was in 1937 only in 1943

farragut in 1936 with radar FC bro

[spiral cedar]

Mostly because in wartime you only give stuff to ships when they are back in port for repairs

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

otherwise they are doing cool warship shit yo

[spring briar]

that's when the dunkeks alledgedly got their delay coils

[spiral cedar]

donut disturb

[spring briar]

boat tails in 1911

bless

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

and we threw RPC out in the 30's because too unreliable

shoot me now

[alpine onyx]

Of course Tirpitz took two underwater near misses around that location (assuming it's starboard that you found, but there is no mention of notable portside damage in that region)

One during Tungsten, but no mention of that bulge, just the holes in the hull

And one from the first Tallboy attack

actually two bombs during Tungsten

[spring briar]

why do french documents list the 240mm mle 1906 at 950 m/s and navweaps at 800 m/s

am I missing smth

[junior trench]

Operation Tungsten didn't involve Tallboys though?

[alpine onyx]

Correct

[junior trench]

Nine of the Barracudas were to be armed with 1,600-pound bombs and a further 22 would each carry three 500-pound semi-armour-piercing bombs that were capable of penetrating the lightly protected upper decks of the ship if dropped from above 2,000 feet (610 m). The remaining ten aircraft would be armed with 500- and 600-pound general-purpose bombs and with anti-submarine bombs intended to inflict casualties among the battleship's crew and cause underwater damage if they exploded in the water near her hull.

[alpine onyx]

but as I wrote just now, the first Tallboy Strike had a near miss around the same location where two near misses happened during Tungsten

[junior trench]

the most likely culprit in the 600 pound depth bombs

[spring briar]

sounds more reasonable

[junior trench]

also Rich's post notes that they thought it was a Tallboy near miss

only to conclude that it definitely wasn't and was from Tungsten

[spring briar]

anyone want to know the price per kg of french AP shells in 1911?

[junior trench]

oh, I see where I confused myself

it's 500 and 600 pound GP bombs with unspecified depth bombs

not 600 pound depth bombs

[alpine onyx]

And I look at the German damage assessments, see no mention of a 15x5m hull deformation in the aftermath of Tungsten and then a month later a Tallboy strike around that area that caused major hull deformations above and below water

And say maybe, maybe, the British assessment is wrong

[spring briar]

I'd expect a tallboy exploding that close in shallow water next to tirpitz to do the same as the explosion of Terre Neuve did to Dunkerque

were tirpitz' mags full then?

[alpine onyx]

Should be

[spring briar]

oof

[alpine onyx]

Not full full, but definitely not empty

[spring briar]

wonder what that would look like

[junior trench]

that being said I did find a rather amusing hand of god depth charge that's somewhat close in weight

a 745 pound depth charge with a 600 pound TNT charge

[maiden citrus]

💀

[junior trench]

though nothing can compare to the early attempts of converted naval mines

actually

it seems there's too many gun cotton and low filler weight for total weight mines

for that to hold true

[alpine onyx]

Also amusing to see the ammo consumption of Tirpitz's long and medium AA during Tungsten, she fired 8% of her heavy AA ammo (506 rds) and 1.2% of her medium AA ammo (400)

Both in absolute numbers and in relative numbers the heavy AA pumped out more

[spring briar]

well
how high were the planes flying

[alpine onyx]

More about Fjords being absolute garbage for medium AA usage

especially when there is heavy fog usage

the targets only appear briefly, and then like right on top

[spring briar]

smiles in Austerlitz

[alpine onyx]

so the 20mm carried most of the weight, and the 105s were doing barrage fire at the sectors the planes went through during their approach into the fjord

[spring briar]

Navweaps: doesn't state that french 340mm rifling went from 4° to 6° at the muzzle

centrifugal fuze

very cool

@spiral cedar

from 1909

chrome-nickel shells for better oblique performance

[spiral cedar]

what say

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

sleepu

[spring briar]

france seems to be the only country that receives its shells in oblique hits

which is weirdly worded

[maiden citrus]

shell comes home

[spring briar]

In actuallity, in France, APC shells are through their requirements capable of piercing cemented steel armor of the same thickness as their caliber under 15° or 20° oblique impact

for SAPC shells this would be about half their caliber

I love obliquity requirements

🇺🇸 🇫🇷

Carnot vs Dreadnought

[maiden citrus]

the dreadnought vs the all big gun bb project she tells you not to worry about

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

I prefer KOR-2

[tired flower]

Noice

[spring briar]

🇫🇷 🤝 🇬🇧

[spiral cedar]

Help.

[frigid karma]

https://tenor.com/view/cia-bt-oddkast-glowinthedark-podcast-gif-20566324

[spiral cedar]

https://youtu.be/Wtyg0xgM0Gg

[tough quail]

thanks jaba

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

Use this to bleach your eyes

I wish they had gone through with the further modernization project which would have replaced the twin 57's with 100mm mle 1953's

[somber knoll]

[somber knoll]

Should have been moved to Scotland while he thinks the Scots were sus.

OOC, but Peak English thinking there.

more peak English political thinking
tho to be fair, if they allow Edinburgh to safekeep it it would be less of a hassle back then

[subtle prawn]

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2022/october/action-report-hmas-australia-luzon

[frigid karma]

intrepid had a pretty big cake

[tough quail]

friends

[frigid karma]

why is there a saint chamond just chilling with the germans

i don't think the germans used captured saint chamonds

[tough quail]

it isn't captured

it's sneaking into position

[frigid karma]

there's literally 3 of them standing still while their comrades are getting barbecued

are they on strike again

merde petain isn't even on duty today

[tough quail]

they're getting into very deep cover

also i like the idea that like

eight guys with glamethrowers would get this close

[frigid karma]

wait uh

[tough quail]

before one of them gets popped and sets all their friends on fire

[frigid karma]

are those french guys

yeah they're french wtf

[tough quail]

...

[frigid karma]

none of them have the spiky helmets

[tough quail]

alright i didnt look at it that closely

but yes

those are very french

lmao

[frigid karma]

french didn't even use flamethrowers

bruh

i mean this makes sense

in another scene we see the chamonds bombarding the shit out of that very same trench

[maiden citrus]

I misread that as salmon due to splatoon 3 and was looking for it

[frigid karma]

fellow splatoon gamer

[maiden citrus]

weird looking turf war though the ink color is nice

[frigid karma]

turf war is for casuals

bursting blood vessels over clam blitz is peak splatoon gameplay

[maiden citrus]

'I'm not a casual I play salmon rush co-op' - person playing splatoon with joycons in handheld mode

[frigid karma]

salmon run is fun

i was profeshional 999 in the old game

[desert agate]

those are french troops tho

like

look at the helmets

clearly an adrian

[frigid karma]

yea i acknowledged that

the thing is they all had flamethrowers, something the germans not french used

[desert agate]

And here we have French troops using flamethrowers in WW1

[frigid karma]

oh, they did

til

[desert agate]

They also had single man portable ones like the Germans

And they used captured German ones

[tough quail]

where is this from btw

[desert agate]

probably all quiet on the western front

[frigid karma]

Netflix teaser for all quiet on western front

[tough quail]

gotcha

[frigid karma]

On yt

[strong plank]

local german horrified after learning other countries use flamethrowers too

more at 11

[tough quail]

local german realized he fucked around

and is duly finding out

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/CDF_Aust/status/1569808142187507714?s=20&t=4Y_ZCKB06pDeykcxi480mA

General Angus Campbell (@CDF_Aust)

Today is the 75th anniversary of Australia’s involvement in peacekeeping operations. Since 1947, more than 66,000 Australian peacekeepers have served in more than 50 international peacekeeping operations. Tragically 16 have lost their lives. We honour their service & sacrifice.

Twitter · Sep 13, 2022, 10:00 PM

[frigid karma]

we funky tonight boys

this feels like an 80s arcade

[spiral cedar]

@『DEATH_PENALTY』#0406 What did Dunkerque have for backing of the main belt and main armor deck? Jordan isn't quite clear; half the time it's just the 225mm of KC on 60mm of teak backing, but on one page there's also 16mm of unknown backing material (HT? MS?) on every frame with a belt. Which is correct?

ah, ping broke

@spring briar

[spring briar]

225mm armor steel + 16mm structural for belt with 60 mm backing
125mm armor steel + 15mm structural steel for deck (dunno if there's teak backing here)
these are the numbers given on the plans

Dumas mentions that all backing is 60mm of teak for vertical armor but doesn't mention backing for decks

[cinder escarp]

but why teak

[spring briar]

good wood

water resistant

[eternal veldt]

RN fans when they realise their ships use teak backing instead of oak backing /s

[spring briar]

RN in shambles

[spiral cedar]

Does MS or HT make more sense for structural steel here?

[spring briar]

it's special steel

definitely not MS

[maiden citrus]

constitution stole it

[spring briar]

if MS means mild steel

[maiden citrus]

yeah

high tensile, mild steel

[spring briar]

yea it aint MS lol

maka is made out of HC steel

highly cute

[maiden citrus]

well you're st steel

special trustee

[spiral cedar]

We talking HT or D steel?

[spring briar]

I'll look for it

[spiral cedar]

Was D steel used in other areas of French ships?

[spring briar]

ok it should all be HT steel

[spiral cedar]

Works for me

By the way, since you have the plans out

[spiral cedar]

Any info on the thickness of the weather deck or outer hull?

[spring briar]

any armor steel should be 80 or 100 kg steel and the 15 or 16 mm backing should be 50 kg steel

basically as in Algérie

the outer hull should be 10 mm thick

[eternal veldt]

Thought Constitution had some douglas fir?

Or am I confusing myself with US flight deck material

[spring briar]

jaba do you copy

[spiral cedar]

Oh, 10mm now

Makes it easier for me

[spring briar]

yeah the 18 mm was inside

[spiral cedar]

Any idea on weather deck?

[maiden citrus]

constitution is pine and oak iirc

[spring briar]

12 - 5 mm for the top
22 + 12 - 20 mm for the one below

[spiral cedar]

Below, as in premier pont?

Or premier faux-pont

[spiral cedar]

on this diagram

[spring briar]

I'll edit it gmm

[spiral cedar]

mkmk

[spiral cedar]

Ah, so it gets extra layers when the secondary guns are present

Makes sense

[spring briar]

yes

[spiral cedar]

Want it to be extra splinter resistant

[spiral cedar]

Muchos gracias señorita

[spring briar]

did any USN ships experience cable tunnel flooding issues

[spiral cedar]

Yes

It’s in the damcon reports of a couple I’ve read

[maiden citrus]

me going to bed at night, thinking of montana's armored tubings

[spring briar]

seems to be the shared experience of all nations in ww2 when it comes to navies

flooding through cable tunnels

[spiral cedar]

136. Progressive flooding of compartments through bulkhead stuffing tubes for electric cable has long been a serious nuisance to ships receiving underwater damage. Leakage through bulkhead stuffing tubes, however, rarely has permitted complete flooding of a compartment. The most serious cases of such flooding occurred on DENVER (CL58)* and INDEPENDENCE (CVL22)*, where the damage control problems were complicated by such leakage. A complete discussion of the improvement in packing stuffing tubes and in watertight construction of electrical cable is included in the War Damage Report for the above vessels.

[spring briar]

same reports on richie and dunkek

sadly it was never fixed on the dunkeks because you know

[spiral cedar]

12. Compartment C-408-L. Note door 4-113-2 shored. Water on deck was from leaks through electric cable stuffing tubes and leakage at base of doors 4-113-2 and 4-113-1.

13. Compartment C-408-L showing electric cable stuffing tubes in bulkhead 113 which leaked.

3. The ability of these ships to absorb damage and withstand flooding from torpedo hits reflects the high standards of the basic designs with respect to strength, stability and subdivision, as well as many improvements which have been made in systems and equipment. These two cases, however point up the importance of the need for constant vigilance with respect to matters of detail in design and construction. The most important lesson from these two cases is that in both ships open piping systems and electrical cable bulkhead stuffing tubes contributed to the flooding of compartments and spaces beyond the limits of structural damage. Changes have been authorized and completed in the majority of the ships of the two classes to correct the deficiencies uncovered. Improved methods of construction also have been developed and where practicable have been applied to existing ships as availability permitted.

44. Compartments C-404-M and C-507-M flooded full through electric cable stuffing tubes. The flooding of these spaces was not immediately detected because of their somewhat remote location relative to the scene of damage control activity. C-408-L flooded to a depth of about one foot through electric cable stuffing tubes and also through a faulty arrangement of the non-automatic fixed fog system.

55. All radio transmitters went dead when the radio motor generators, all of which were located in the after gyro room, were flooded out. Water reached the forward and after main distribution boards via electric cables, but these quickly were disconnected and the boards were cleared before any serious damage was caused.

Second platform compartments C-504-M, C-506-M, C-507-M and C-508-M flooded to a depth of about 6 inches through electric cable stuffing tubes.

113. On both of these ships water traveling inside the cable sheaths of individual cables caused a great deal of trouble at various switchboards and panels. This has occurred in many other cases of damage. Since 1 January 1945, all electric cable produced for the Navy has been watertight, in which the cable is sealed throughout its length to prevent the flow of water under pressure through the cable core. Cable-end sealing, in addition, still remains mandatory. Sealing of ends of important power cables also has been authorized for ships in service, but the repair workload in the various yards has precluded large-scale accomplishment of this very desirable alteration. The most important circuits, however, should be protected, even if all cables cannot be sealed.

Photo 12: Compartment C-408-L. Note door 4-113-2 shored. Water on deck was from leaks through electric cable stuffing tubes and leakage at base of doors 4-113-2 and 4-113-1.

Photo 13: Compartment C-408-L showing electric cable stuffing tubes in bulkhead 113 which leaked.

E. Ammunition Behavior

130. In reference (dd) the Commanding Officer of DENVER pointed out the excellent resistance of 5-inch/38 service ammunition to extreme crushing resulting from battle damage. The point of impact on DENVER was located about 8 feet from the forward lower corner of C-405-M, the projectile stowage and lower handling room for 5-inch mount No. 5. There were about 1000 projectiles and possibly one or two 5-inch/38 cartridges in tanks in this compartment.

131. The outboard longitudinal bulkhead was blown violently inboard and the compartment reduced to half of its original volume. Several projectiles were thrown, nose first, against solid structure with great force. Several of the fuses were pinched between metal objects or were almost destroyed by impact. There is evidence that a sensitive element of one fuse may have detonated. There was no detonation, however, of any of the main explosive charges. Photo 26 shows the condition of compartment C-405-M after damage. Photo 27 shows projectiles recovered from this compartment. Powder tanks illustrated were recovered from compartment C-403-M, the 5-inch powder magazine directly inboard of C-405-M. This compartment also was severely damaged. Cartridge cases were thrown violently about and battered. A few tanks and cases were broken sufficiently to allow powder to escape, several pounds being found in oil tanks below the magazines. There was no evidence of detonation or fire.

132. As stated in paragraph 101, there was no evidence of any fragment attack on the interior structure of the magazines or on the projectiles in the magazines. The liquid layer between the torpedo detonation and the magazine (approximately 7 feet) appears to have been sufficient to stop fragments or at least reduce their velocity to a harmless value. Damage to the ammunition in compartments C-405-M, C-403-M and C-503-M was due entirely to shock and the crushing action of structure. Against this type of damage, the projectiles showed excellent resistance.

133. In reference (b), the Commanding Officer of INDEPENDENCE made particular note of the fact that "7 fully ready torpex loaded torpedoes within thirty feet of the explosion did not detonate". The torpedo warhead magazine, C-506-M, was empty. The torpedoes referred to by the Commanding Officer were located in racks on the hangar deck between frames 104 and 116 on the port side. These torpedoes were about 38 feet from the point of detonation. In this location, they were not subjected to blast, fragment attack, crushing or fire.

[spring briar]

not worries

Dumas mentions that all steel that isn't cemented is either high tensile steel for backing or special armor steel for bulkheads and internal armor

don't even want to think about using ducol for bulkheads

can't weld that shit

[spiral cedar]

In my notes I have 36 deg from vertical listed for the deck slope, but these two diagrams seem to depict 34 deg from vertical

If you happen to have an exact figure, ping me

[spring briar]

@spiral cedar the angle depends on the exact location

[spiral cedar]

Of course it does

[spring briar]

so what would you like me to give you

[spiral cedar]

Amidships or abreast machinery

[spring briar]

then the angle on Jordan's diagram of frame 96.5 should be correct

[spiral cedar]

mkmk

[spring briar]

frame 96.4

[spiral cedar]

Dunkerque Immune Zone 

Machinery Area ("Standard" comparison)

Vertical protection:
Outer hull - 0.39" HT
Main belt - 8.86" French KC at 11.5 deg w/ 2.36" wood & 0.63" HT
Splinter deck - 1.57" French NCA at 34 deg

Horizontal protection:
Weather deck - 0.2" HT
First deck - 0.79" HT
Main armor deck - 4.53" French NCA w/ 0.59" HT backing
Splinter deck - 1.57" French NCA

Strasbourg Immune Zone

Machinery Area ("Standard" comparison)

Vertical protection:
Outer hull - 0.39" HT
Main belt - 11.14" French KC at 11.83 deg w/ 2.36" wood & 0.63" HT
Splinter deck - 1.97" French NCA at 34 deg

Horizontal protection:
Weather deck - 0.2" HT
First deck - 0.79" HT
Main armor deck - 4.53" French NCA w/ 0.59" HT backing
Splinter deck - 1.57" French NCA

@spring briar Final confirmation this is correct?

[maiden citrus]

oh no he's gonna shoot them

[spiral cedar]

Don't worry, they'll get to shoot back

[frigid karma]

when is he gonna shoot his shot

[silver crest]

joaquin phoenix is starring in a napoleon movie

[spiral cedar]

We live in an estate

[frigid karma]

Three of them to be fair

[spiral cedar]

33 - 1334, 54.3 - ncp
34 - 1338, 52.7 - ncp
35 - 1344, 51.1 - 341, 29.0
36 - 1351, 49.5 - ncp
37 - 1359, 47.9 - 216, 20.9
38 - 1370, 46.3 - 442, 25.9
39 - 1384, 44.8 - 552, 27.7

Sometimes it do be like that

[spiral cedar]

@maiden citrus @jagged monolith @spring briar @tough quail @eternal veldt @junior trench @ivory ridge

Dunkerque machinery immune zone against Scharnhorst 28cm/54.5 SK C/34 APC

SUMMARY
**Immune zone - 19000-37000 yards (18000 yards wide)**
"Completely" immune zone - 21000-34000 yards (13000 yards wide) [no holing of main belt or main armor deck]

Strasbourg machinery immune zone against Scharnhorst 28cm/54.5 SK C/34 APC

SUMMARY
**Immune zone - 15000-37000 yards (22000 yards wide)**
"Completely" immune zone - 16000-34000 yards (18000 yards wide) [no holing of main belt or main armor deck]

(up next will be Scharn against Dunk 330mm)

[maiden citrus]

that's quite the difference

[spiral cedar]

Keeping in mind of course that this is at 90 deg target angle, and thus a "best case scenario" for belt penetration

[maiden citrus]

right, just I knew stras had improvements but that's quite noticeable

[spiral cedar]

Yeh, just adding context

General rule is an extra 1" of belt gets about 2k yards on inner zone for zero to low inclines

[spring briar]

This is beautiful, if only we could get her in AL

[spring briar]

@spiral cedar @maiden citrus

[maiden citrus]

hehe

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

I now have a scale model of the SHS

[spiral cedar]

Now to make a scale model 16”/45 Mark 6

[spring briar]

just need to paint it and add driving band

[spiral cedar]

Scharnhorst machinery immune zone against Dunkerque 33cm/50 SAPC

SUMMARY
**Immune zone - 12000-28000 yards (16000 yards wide)**
"Completely" immune zone - 27000-28000 yards (1000 yards wide) [no holing of main belt or main armor deck]

[spring briar]

I need to slightly reshape the windscreen of my SHS

and then color it

[spiral cedar]

Advantageous ranges, broadside-on:
(effective penetrations only)

Dunkerque v. Scharnhorst 
>37k - neither (Dunk deck, Scharn deck)
29k-37k - Dunkerque (Dunk none, Scharn deck) [9]
20-28k - neither (Dunk none, Scharn none)
13-19k - Scharnhorst (Dunk belt, Scharn none) [-7]
0-12k - neither (Dunk belt, Scharn belt)

Strasbourg v. Scharnhorst 
>37k - neither (Stras deck, Scharn deck)
29k-37k - Strasbourg (Stras none, Scharn deck) [9]
15-28k - neither (Stras none, Scharn none)
13-14k - Scharnhorst (Stras belt, Scharn none) [-2]
0-12k - neither (Stras belt, Scharn belt)

This last past is just a bonus, don't complain about the questionable assumption of 90 deg target angle hits

[spring briar]

it would be interesting to check underwater pens of dunky on scharn

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

You can do that

It is almost 2 AM for me

[spring briar]

and what if I deliver you the velocity of the shell after traveling in the water for x distance tomorrow

[spiral cedar]

I’m probably gonna take it easy with muzzle energy tables ‘tomorrow’

If I have time I might check out the Cavours

[spiral cedar]

Oh yeah, funny thing

KGV pens Scharn’s sloped deck at a 90 deg target angle at 8k yards

Rather than 11k by Dunk

[spring briar]

mass difference?

[spiral cedar]

KGV is 1590 lbs with 1399 lb body; Dunk is 1234.59 lb with 1111.13 lb body

(1595 with K dye bag)

[spring briar]

british dye bags were only introduced in 1946 for the BB's

[spiral cedar]

Mm don’t think so?

[spring briar]

oh

1942

nvm

now I want to give Dunk a real AP shell as she should have

[maiden citrus]

That completely immune zone change

16,000 to 1000

Bruh

[spiral cedar]

It’s the sloped deck

If the belt gets penned, you’re not “completely” immune

[maiden citrus]

Yeah, but that might be the largest change we’ve seen between those two figures

[spiral cedar]

Nah, the biggest is probably when the Brit 15” is hitting Bismarck

Because inner zone is 0k

[maiden citrus]

Oh true since that’s a meme

[spiral cedar]

Yeh

[spring briar]

so this is now true

[alpine onyx]

If you assume a long range fight

[spring briar]

that's a given
the whole reason behind the 33cm is long range stuff

[alpine onyx]

you just need to have an actual opportunity for that

[spiral cedar]

Now, you can probably make a strong case that each yard of immune zone beyond 30k yards has much less importance than, say, in the 15k-25k yard band

I have my own ideas on how to weight those, but that’s ultimately a matter of personal preference

[alpine onyx]

Because I reserve the right to dimiss engagements beyond 30k yards

since those... rarely happened between battleships if at all?

[spring briar]

true

not to mention Scharn has actual AP, Dunk has SAPC and that will affect the numbers shown here by Jaba in Scharn's favour

[alpine onyx]

add barbette and turret face hits

[spiral cedar]

Oh right, I need to make my graphical barbette comparison at some point

[spring briar]

same actually applies to Scharn's AP but to a lesser degree

since actual AP

[alpine onyx]

You know that I will face another brainlet that will tell me that French battleships win anything by going bow in

because bouncy bounce

[spring briar]

poggers

[spiral cedar]

Ah but don’t you see, Scharnhorst goes bow in and bounces everything to her bow

And then of course it’s a torpedo fight

[maiden citrus]

bow in vs invincible turtleback

a battle of the wows forums

[spring briar]

I wonder what your opinion is in the difference of filler weight between the two shells and how this would affect the outcome of an engagement, Jaba

[spiral cedar]

If we're going to that level you'd want to start adding in expected hits per minute, etc.

Which is a more complex problem

[spring briar]

Dunkek dye shells will paint Scharn red

[alpine onyx]

La Tomatina?

[spring briar]

how to become a christmas battleship:
let strasbourg and dunk shell you for a bit

[spiral cedar]

how to become a submarine battleship:
let wahshington shell you for a bit

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

Just set up a christmas tree on board

Christmas boat

[spring briar]

Scharn is 31k ton standard right?

[alpine onyx]

roundabout

got a bit heavier over time, since they added lotsa AA and some radar and stuff

also that entire rear superstructure that was modified

[spring briar]

say

any reason you retrofitted her bow to an atlantik bow but it really didn't help much in the end?

[alpine onyx]

I added the bow and lengthened it

went with both

[spring briar]

nono I mean IRL

[alpine onyx]

oh, well, I didn't do stuff to her, wanna be clear about that

tho from what I read it helped a bit

and a bit is better than nothing

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

and not much else they could've done, you can't just raise the weather deck by a meter or two

[spring briar]

have you tried it

[alpine onyx]

I find it cringe when people talk as if they did anything during WW2

[spring briar]

same with dunky and stras

they died a lot

and revived

and then died some more

[spiral cedar]

Wait

I think I used the wrong Scharn sloped deck thickness just now

[alpine onyx]

you went with 110mm?

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

Time to fix

[spring briar]

is it 105 or smth

I forgor

[alpine onyx]

it's 105

[spiral cedar]

80mm

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

same as most of the horizontal deck

[spiral cedar]

Welp…time to fix

Should’ve known something was up with that 12k yard inner zone

[alpine onyx]

should give Scharn a better window in case she stumbles into Dunk during an Atlantic storm

[spring briar]

in case of an atlantic storm both ships would have their turrets flooded

[alpine onyx]

Ramming speed!

battle of the collision bulkheads

[spring briar]

sirene where is Strasbourg in AL

[alpine onyx]

artist still not sure what fetish to go for

[spiral cedar]

Wait…

I did it right

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

I misread that I used the wrong number

[spring briar]

jaba requires some sleep

[spiral cedar]

Clearly

[spring briar]

I'm so happy that I have a miniature SHS now

throws it at Sirene

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

hugs sirene instead

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

jaba go to bed

[spiral cedar]

Am in

[spring briar]

or feel the wrath of

SHS carrying man

[alpine onyx]

Do I want to know what 16in SHS would do to Scharnhorst?

Probably not

[spring briar]

same thing it does to all pre-and treaty bb's

hope for overpens

[alpine onyx]

Kinda like imagining what Yamato would do to Scharnhorst

[spring briar]

yamato has garbage shells

[spiral cedar]

M

[alpine onyx]

But still big and gonna hurt

[spring briar]

yes

big holes

[eternal veldt]

I missed a lot, haven't I

Shiny horse vs Stras, wasn't expecting a feast today

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

32mm bow weak, Yamato will destroy everything with the famous and historical overmatch mechanic.

That is why Richelieu is tier 8 and Musashi is tier 9, check fucking mate.

[spring briar]

JB tho

MBRB

[eternal veldt]

[Unobtainable]

[spring briar]

but hey fuck this radar bs

[eternal veldt]

Irrelevant, /s

Just... French ships darting around at 54 knots, no shits given, and landing most shots perfectly is irritating enough

Vibing hard

I oddly have a lot of bones to pick with how WG depicted the MN

From MBRB to turboboosting

Guess Phoenix is also reeling from the SAP BS from the Italain cruisers.

[spring briar]

the turbo is understandable, but not to the degree it is shown in wows

SAP just doesn't act like actual SAP

[eternal veldt]

Remind me, how should it act? Like the AP in game?

[spring briar]

armor schemes are null

ap with less pen breathes in at oblique hits

and slightly less pen at perpendicular hits

and higher burster ofc

[eternal veldt]

Oh, okay. Shell cap matters here or nah?

The oblique part.

[spring briar]

SAPC exists so yes

it helps

that's why british common pointed shells didn't work as well

MBRB is bullshit

[eternal veldt]

You know what is BS

No listing mechanic

Ship literally eats shit from 3 torpedo hits, bow and stern completely severed from the explosive charge, turret crew entirely dead

[spring briar]

no flooding from underwater hits

[eternal veldt]

WoWS: 100% fighting efficiency

And dont get me started on the RN repair tool

[spring briar]

getting hit by a full bb salvo under the water line would flood atleast a dozen compartiments on real botes

[eternal veldt]

Just very no, as much as and many others were saved

Also no cruelty that is a machinery hit

Shell enter, explodes, blows steam lines

[spring briar]

oh

and dispersion

[eternal veldt]

Everyone in the machinery compartment dies from scalding high pressure steam

[spring briar]

sounds like dunkek moment

[eternal veldt]

Taffy 3 too, IIRC

[spring briar]

while plains?

jaba go sleep

[eternal veldt]

No, Johnston after Yammy pounded her, IIRC

Or Hoel, one of the two

[spring briar]

White plains also lost some boilers iirc from yammy misses

or machinery

dunno

[spiral cedar]

WoWs: A BB broadside of AP into a DD does nothing

IRL: one BB AP sinks a DD

At 0940 a 16-inch round fired from 12,000 yards crashed into Fougueux. This, the first direct hit obtained by an American warship, crumpled the destroyer’s bow up to the quarterdeck, drove the stem underwater, and set the bridge afire. Fougueux rapidly flooded and Commander Sticca ordered the crew to abandon ship.

[eternal veldt]

Yea, electricity was knocked out too IIRC

Oh right, we solced the Fougueux mystery

[spring briar]

bad

[eternal veldt]

It wasnt Wichita or Brooklyn that killed her

It was Massy

The third (wo) man

Detective novel material

Now give me skin Manjoob you shits

[spring briar]

I have several questions

[eternal veldt]

Funny thing, there used to be a time where if an AP shell enters a DD longitudinally, the shell will arm and... What you described happens.

It was actually stunning at deterring destroyers from making suicidal torpedo runs on battleships.

Alas, "balans" for braindead players

[spring briar]

french dd's getting hit by 16" shells

Fougueux, Milan, Le Malin

who else

hmmm

[eternal veldt]

All at Casablanca?

Audacieux was shat on by Australia IIRC

[spring briar]

yes

luckily most french dd's hit could still beach themselves

[eternal veldt]

Not a DD, but didnt Primaguet beach herself then burned to death?

[spring briar]

dunno if the shell on Le Malin even armed

yes

Primauguet got ganged up on by the whole US task force and burnt out after beaching

Primauguet how would you like to fight Wichita, Augusta, Tuscaloosa and Brooklyn?

massachussetts's hit on Milan followed up by 2 8" hits

26-28k yds

however, Primauguet showed how though she was despite the many hits and the fire

A less significant victim of this engagement was the boat in which General Patton had intended to reach the beach from the flagship Augusta. The boat had been swung out on davits in preparation for launch when muzzle blast from the cruiser's 8-inch guns blew out the bottom of the boat, causing most of Patton's luggage to be lost overboard.

@eternal veldt

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-infinity-war-avengers-gif-20036370

[maiden citrus]

have a video of me one shotting a dd as arizona this way

[eternal veldt]

I delete those for a living back then

Imagine my anger when they said calibers of 280+ gets slashed anyway

[maiden citrus]

mass with the longest range hit irl and in azur lane

[spring briar]

apologise for hurting my DD's

[maiden citrus]

of course, they're cuties

[eternal veldt]

They aligned with P*tain

[spring briar]

you sent cruisers in to deal with DD's

[spring briar]

This is history not memes

[ivory ridge]

That's clearly history dont you see

[tired flower]

Lmao

[spring briar]

Shit freeaboos say

[tired flower]

Okay

Now this better

Also I can’t believe this aircraft almost be build

But it’s true

[manic latch]

No way

There is no way that thing is structurally reliable

[tired flower]

Yeah

But it’s true

[tribal mortar]

Essex, Centaur and Victorious after refits

[kind summit]

I find TFX designs interesting though

[red flint]

to commemorate the event, anything interesting to know about musashi?

[spring briar]

Musashi used no cemented armor

[somber knoll]

@spiral cedar how were the Yammies' guns' rpm?

[manic latch]

As richel said. Yamato class used non cemented armor

War thunder is adding SMS Ostfriesland

I'm sorry Rich

Germans win again

[spring briar]

I know

[alpine onyx]

I think the fastest achieved reload was 28s, at normal engagement ranges 45s

[manic latch]

Yikes

[spiral cedar]

The official figure is 40s at max (45°) elevation

I'm the galloping ghost of the Japanese coast.
You don't hear of me and my crew.
But just ask any man off the coast of Japan
If he knows of the Trigger Maru.

I look sleek and slender alongside my tender
With others like me at my side,
But we'll tell you a story of battle and glory,
As enemy waters we ride.

I've been stuck on a rock, felt the depth charge's shock,
Been north to a place called Attu,
and I've sunk me two freighters atop the equator
Hot work, but the sea was cold blue.

I've cruised close inshore and carried the war
to the Empire Island Honshu,
While they wire Yokohama I could see Fujiyama,
So I stayed, to admire the view.

When we rigged to run silently, deeply I dived,
And within me the heat was terrific.
My men pouring sweat, silent and yet
Cursed me and the whole damned Pacific.

Then destroyers came sounding and depth charges pounding
My submarine crew took the test.
Far in that far off land there are no friends on hand,
To answer a call of distress.

I was blasted and shaken (some damage I've taken),
my hull bleeds and pipe lines do, too
I've come in from out there for machinery repair,
And a rest for me and my crew.

I got by on cool nerve and in silence I served,
Though I took some hard knocks in return,
One propeller shaft sprung and my battery's done,
But the enemy ships I saw burn.

I'm the galloping ghost of the Japanese coast,
You don't hear of me and my crew.
But just ask any man off the coast of Japan,
If he knows of the Trigger Maru.

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

Postwar USN analysis and Japanese survivor testimonies indicate that in her final battle (at the Sibuyan Sea), Musashi sustained 6 US aerial torpedoes without serious threat of sinking, and was eventually brought down by 4 additional torpedoes striking at about the same time

[spiral cedar]

Rip embed

[subtle prawn]

#OTD in 1944, USS Shangri-La was commissioned. One of the few Navy ships named for a fictional location, the name was chosen after FDR slyly told reporters that the Doolittle Raid had been launched from Shangri-La—the secret paradise in the novel "Lost Horizon".

[spiral cedar]

There we go

[strong plank]

She was also sponsored by Doolittle’s wife

[spring briar]

@spiral cedar underwater 340 mm HE shell

[spiral cedar]

FATO

[spring briar]

yes

also uh

this

[spiral cedar]

Long cap

[spring briar]

yes

see this?

It corresponds to this

also found information on French super long range guns tested in the late 20's

will get to you with it when I'm through the info

it includes a 5.3 caliber long 224mm shell

and a 5.0 caliber long 224mm shell that had a confirmed range of 127800 meters

Firing a shell on the 21st of November 1929 from Saint-Pierre-Quiberon to the bay of Audierne

[spiral cedar]

Over 127 km

[spring briar]

yes

[humble mulch]

Damn now that's far

[spring briar]

it was fired by a 150 caliber gun

I'm pretty sure I've posted pics of it already

just not of the range it shot at

was one of a long list of long range artillery pieces france made to test hyper velocity ballistics

sadly finding any pictures of the shells will be near impossible unless I go dig in an archive

[spring briar]

Le Hardi my beloved

When will you come to me

[midnight aurora]

incredible what training your bloody people will do

[spring briar]

More of a having time to get all the systems up and running correctly issue

[manic latch]

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2022/09/14/lcs-coronado-decommissioned-after-less-than-9-years-of-active-service/

[spring briar]

I still don’t get what the Independence class was built to do

[strong plank]

They were supposed to be multipurpose, and have different modules that could be changed out for different missions

[tough quail]

also the navy was just bored

[chilly osprey]

A lot about the LCS was also forced on the navy by OSD

Rumsfeld, damned be thy name

But, fundamentally it was this ship type that would somehow have to be light, cheap, and yet basically fill every task the higher-end elements of the fleet weren't going to be doing, plus ASW, and it also had to be able to do everything while operating in littoral enviroments. Oh, yes, and they wanted them to also go 40 knots on top of this.

They decided that all this could be achieved by mission modules that could be 'easily' swapped out based on the mission the ship was expected to perform.

Some of the concepts of the LCS may have worked out if they had offloaded many of the tasks onto another ship design, simply by designing an actual class of frigates to replace the OHPs, but that never happened.

So the entire thing became a mess, and then also most of the mission modules failed to appear when planned because they kept not funding their development, among other things.

[cinder escarp]

The design requirements for the LCS also resulted in mission bays that quite simply were either too small, too light in load rating, or both (looking at you freedom class, independence at least has large bays!).

But yes, they wanted every capability for littoral warfare imaginable, on a 40+ kt ship, with at least 3000nmi range, and it had to have a small crew of ~50 along with small size and low cost.

They determined this could be done by looking at a ton of studies for various capabilities and seeing they had a (very small) window where they all overlapped. Of course, studies aren't totally accurate and the ships ended up impossible to build.

Freedom of course, was the bigger failure of the classes. Too undermanned, overweight, can't meet most KPPs even with all of the work poured into it. Actually delivered, loaded freedoms can't make 40 knots as they are too heavy to fully plane, and they can't get anywhere near the 3000nmi range requirement unless you cheat by burning all of the mission module's fuel (and even then it just barely creeps over the requirement).

[tired flower]

nice

[eternal veldt]

An SB2C damaged the barrels of Turret 1 during Sibuyan Sea. Musashi decided to open fire with her well-known Type 3 shells in anti aircraft defence. Said shell exploded in the barrel and forced the turret to be evacuated.

And if you're interested in tidbit details, Musashi differed visually from Yamato from details such as the type of shielded triple 25mm AA carried, main mast, and ladder arrangement.

[manic latch]

Ain't also 127mms being non armored in Musashi on second floor

[eternal veldt]

Musashi has only 3 per broadside, all armoured.

Or rather, shielded.

[manic latch]

Wait. She had 25mms instead there?

[eternal veldt]

Yamato has 6, the top row unshielded.

Yes.

[manic latch]

Ooh

[eternal veldt]

Musashi's hinoki deck was also stained with soot and tar to darken it against aircraft by Leyte Gulf.

[manic latch]

Yeah it was the reason she was chocolate in KC

[eternal veldt]

And for this...

[kind summit]

So sad that I didnt find any good book to read about Musashi. So have to read about Rodney and her sistership lol

Brits actually planned on using oxygen 622-mm torps but at some point decided not to

[spiral cedar]

Anatomy of the Ships - Yamato and Musashi by Skulski and Draminski
Capital Ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1868–1945 The Yamato Class and Subsequent Planning by Lengerer
“Yamato” by Dickson, Warship International 1975 No.4 (p. 294-318)
“Loss of Yamato, Musashi, Taihou, Shinano” by the US Naval Technical Mission to Japan

[kind summit]

I have a 900 pages book about japanese battleships but its in japanese

[spiral cedar]

The first two are books so you’d have to get them yourself

But the second two are article PDFs so I sent them here

[kind summit]

Yeah thanks, these ones are more about ship's deaths though

[spring briar]

the best books on musashi and yamato are unfortunately in japanese

[ivory ridge]

Just be a weeb

[spring briar]

@spiral cedar French 305 mm fuse timers can be set to a max of 0.025s delay

[spiral cedar]

Is that…1906?

[spring briar]

and also another model that can be set from 0 - 0.25 s

ye this is pre ww1 stuff

for railway guns sadly

the marine stuff seems to elude me

[spiral cedar]

Ah

[spring briar]

marine fuse should be in the range of 0.025-0.03s tho

[spiral cedar]

What do railway guns need delay fuzes for anyway, bunker busting?

[spring briar]

penetration into the ground

[spiral cedar]

Yes but why

[spring briar]

or into concrete

well to avoid detonation during penetration

[spiral cedar]

So bunkers

[spring briar]

yes

[spiral cedar]

0.25s is a long time…

[spring briar]

yes

it's adjustable between 0 and 0.25s via a special wrench

same as in the navy but there the range is much smaller

I also found that long boy from yesterday

or atleast a newer version of it

[kind summit]

oh ok its just 600

Probably has every minor detail but I am way too lazy to translate it somehow

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

More readable machine translations

[spring briar]

@manic latch I found it

[manic latch]

HOOOW HOOOW

[spring briar]

I will make a HD model now

[manic latch]

Her history shell be preserved

[spring briar]

also found the SAP

[manic latch]

Give

[spring briar]

but not really

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

180 mm SAP is a very close match

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

meaning Kronshtadt's 305's are probably also just scaled up 180 mm shells

[manic latch]

I thought them as just faster Gangut shells

[spring briar]

no

look at navweaps

[manic latch]

Damn

[spring briar]

ok actually i won't make an HD model yet

[kind summit]

Yeah but there's this

Or stuff like that

[eternal veldt]

What exactly are you looking for?

I have the exact same book.

[kind summit]

Well I mean I have it too, I am just saying that kinda lazy to translate the most of the book to actually go on and read it

[manic latch]

Would SU-10 satisfy you

The first prototype was completed and ready for flight tests when the OKB was among many shut down at that time and all work stopped. The Su-10 was sent to the Moscow Aviation Institute for use as an instructional airframe.

Also cursed fact

The more you research SU-10 the more cursed it gets

See what I mean?

It's that cursed that discord things design is NSFW

Sigh

Wonder if I can post other one

Yep I can post the six engine

And then there is this one

There was a British fighter with 2 jets as top

What was it's name

Ye

[manic latch]

@stoic spruce Want to show you Ulyanovsk

She is rather rare knowledge but was beautiful non the less

A bigger Kuznetsov that's nuclear

She was %40 finished before the collapse of Union