history

[ivory ridge]

Or the modern frigate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_frigate_Virginio_Fasan_(F_591)

[spring briar]

virgin

[ivory ridge]

Ah no that's virginio

Kekw

[spring briar]

like you

[ivory ridge]

So true

[spring briar]

happy we got a dante and a vergil

[manic latch]

5 Type 52D under construction

[alpine onyx]

Regarding the 35kn in ss4, it'd be interesting to know the course relative to the sea. Several instances of destroyers going 35kn in heavy seas, but in a bow-heavy ship that can get very ugly

@spring briar any info on that?

[manic latch]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/08/turkiyes-indigenous-76-62-naval-gun-completes-sea-trials/

Would be damn ironic if it actually started to beat Italian 76mm for export

Big doubt of course. But still

There gotta be reason they do this instead just keep buying for Italy

[spring briar]

[ivory ridge]

that article is cope

Leonardo was asking €8.2 million for a 76mm gun. He also revealed that the Turkish 76-mm gun costs far less, €4.7 million
Ok but you're buying the Equivalent of a compact 76mm

The company also stated that the indigenous 76mm Naval Gun stands out with its features such as the ability to fire a wider variety of ammunition compared to the Italian product, the ability to use special fused bullets, and its electro-mechanical structure that allows digital control.

wider variety like... ?

Special fuses that exist since the 60s

and digital control... it's 2022 i would fucking hope a new gun would have digital control

[manic latch]

That's the thing tho

[manic latch]

[ivory ridge]

Wait a second

Are they cooling it with sea water and only cleaning it afterwards

That's

Yikes

[spring briar]

Turkinah

[alpine onyx]

I mean that honestly

Not in a negative way

I know that Z-11 going 35kn into the storm had her bow cut under, and everything in the forward third of the ship smashed

Would probably not have happened if she was sailing away from the storm

[spring briar]

I meant it as

no, not really

if I come across it I'll show ya

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

centre shell is rare

it's the original body of the 455 kg ap from the chesma class (first russian pre dreads)

but with a new ballistic cap

[simple star]

hey peepo who know more naval and military equipment and weapons do you think this turret is very usable also i cant put the image here im putting at off topic because its a build

[spring briar]

you can put it here if you want

[simple star]

alr i guess

heres my T04 prototype kinda final finish turret

[manic latch]

Nagato style turret?

[spring briar]

a quad

[simple star]

nope a yamato

[spring briar]

I assume two doubles together like a french quad turret

[simple star]

beacuse this for my ships its about 600 meters long

[dapper parcel]

One of Yamato's proposed design was two over two

[simple star]

wdym by that

[manic latch]

Online designers trying to design a BB smaller than 290m challenge (impossible)

[spring briar]

ansaldo shenanigans

[simple star]

what on eart is that one the top one

[manic latch]

You know Smolensk from Wows

Italians had this idea before Soviets

Making turret taller instead wider

[simple star]

the 2nd one looks like my but smaller

[manic latch]

Because let me guess. You give it like +460mm size

Since muh big and all

[dapper parcel]

imagine designing for manufacturability

[simple star]

can see that but what you think it will able to work or i made it to big

[dapper parcel]

But for real, I wish new engineers take design for manufacturability a bit more seriously

[spring briar]

my points of critique:
your guns should be spaced more where they are tightly packed one on one
your barbette is likely too small to fit all the hoists

[manic latch]

Meanwhile Wikipedia iceberg

[dapper parcel]

The gun is staggered, so I gues it can't be a two twin or two half-twin

Training mechanism would be interesting I guess

[simple star]

i already fix that

tha space problem

[spring briar]

[simple star]

also fun fact im the one only buidl the ship

[spring briar]

[simple star]

put alot of effort

[ivory ridge]

What are italian turrets doing in japan

[dapper parcel]

It's just illustration ig, as usual there's no surviving documents

tho I don't think they consider the 1+2+1

or is that german-style 2+2 worked from inside the pair?

[spring briar]

[dapper parcel]

what?

[spring briar]

quad talk

[maiden citrus]

pfft, that's so easy!

[stable ermine]

during WW2, were there any aircraft that were specialised to neutralise air defenses?

[alpine onyx]

I believe it was Japan that built a few planes as dedicated "deck cleaners"

envisioned for the Fugaku and during the Project
Z brainstorming three other concepts
arose and later formed part of Chikuhei's thesis.
The first was an attack design that had 400
Type 97 7.7mm machine guns crammed into
the aircraft. The front and the back of the
bomber would accommodate 40 machine
guns arranged in ten rows. The intention was
to rain thousands of rounds of bullets down
on to enemy ships with the theory that a
swath of destruction 45m (148ft) wide and
1Okm (6.2 miles) long could be achieved by
15 Fugaku aircraft. Once the decks of these
ships were swept of personnel, nine Fugaku
bombers, each with twenty 907kg (2,000Ib)
bombs or torpedoes, would deliver the coup
de grAce, covering a path 200m (656ft) wide
and lkm (0.62 miles) in length with high
explosive.```

Maybe not built, but "envisioned"

[shrewd pecan]

I mean in terms of WW2 SEAD it’s pretty much just conventionally hitting your target so it’s not really like you need dedicated aircraft

there is the few examples of bombers being used to deploy chaff to confuse enemy radar but that’s all I can think of

[manic latch]

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/ship-figurehead-0017155

[stable ermine]

i meant aircraft which could take out anti-air guns

[tough quail]

not much you can really do to feasibly specialize them in the period

closest you'll get is like

an IL-2, but the armor is mostly for small arms, it's not gonna do much against autocannons

for dunking on AA you pretty much just need to rely on swooping in and strafing or bombing the guns before you get shot

[spiral cedar]

In need of a heavily armed low-level bomber to clear the decks of enemy AA gunners, General Kenney had approved of "Pappy" Gunn's proposal to upgun several of his B-25s to carry 4 .50 cals in the nose, 2 .50 cals on each side of the fuselage, and 3 .50 cals underneath the fuselage. This all replaced the original single .30 cal mount in the nose. Kenney thought this looked nose-heavy, and asked Gunn about its center of gravity (CG). Major Gunn replied, "Ah, the CG? Hell, we threw that away to lighten the ship."

[shrewd pecan]

“B-25 Mitchells were also outfitted with radar-homing equipment and used to lead "hunter-killer" teams of other B-25s in locating and destroying Japanese early-warning radar sites”

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/515583624083406848/732859694032486491/Margaret_2b.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/515583624083406848/732859694330413057/AAA_27..._Drawing_B-25__Date.jpg

[shrewd pecan]

from what I can tell from searching Wikipedia, most SEAD ops were conducted with artillery over aircraft with P-47s and heavy bombers being also regularly tasked over Germany to hit radar and AAA sites

There’s nothing really special you need for a aircraft for WW2 SEAD beyond the airborne radar homing equipment

[spiral cedar]

Hiryū's final strike at Midway against the damaged Yorktown is often described as having been largely wasted, as it struck an incapacitated carrier rather than the two operational carriers in the other task force. Yet given how few aircraft were thrown together for the final torpedo bomber strike, how depleted Yorktown's CAP was by that time, and how restricted her maneuverability was from the bomb damage, is it not probable that, had the strike gone in against the combined Enterprise/Hornet CAP and AA screen, and been expended against freely maneuvering ships, that only 0-1 torpedo hits would be scored, and resulting in no US carriers being lost at Midway?

[manic latch]

Ain't the rule is hit it till it sinks

So makes sense they go for the damaged one

[shrewd pecan]

It’s a crippled asset

arguably it’s better to make more assets combat ineffective than it is to completely destroy a single one

[humble mulch]

while thats true

In this specific situation while that was the wanted outcome, you have to remember the torpedo strike team thought THEY WERE attacking a different carrier

only after coming back and comparing reports did they realize they hit Yorktown twice

[spiral cedar]

I'm aware

I'm talking results, not intentions

[humble mulch]

I know, mentioning it for tato
cause it was a good fuckywucky

[spiral cedar]

Ahkay

[shrewd pecan]

fair

I was just responding to Kremlin

[subtle prawn]

Mogador in late December 1939, when she took Admiral Darlan to Portsmouth, UK, for a further conference. Note the dark grey hull and light grey upperworks; the hull number is still painted white with black shadowing. (US Navy NH 86543, courtesy of A D Baker III)

[spring briar]

[zealous vine]

When did secondaries on cruisers/battleships become obsolete for anti-surface use?

[alpine onyx]

Depends on what theatre or usage you look at

For a more asymmetric engagement (BB vs DD) I'd say they kept their usefulness throughout the entire war

Likewise for bombardment roles they still had their purpose (quick check, a third of the ammo Eugen threw at land targets over the span of eight months was from her 105s)

[spring briar]

also turns your ship into a CL while you are reloading your main guns

[alpine onyx]

insert Eugen firing her 105s at Prince of Wales

[spring briar]

truly the most effective way to strip paint

105 mm to tanks:
105 mm to ships:

[alpine onyx]

pretty much why when possible, they'd use them for shore bombardment

[spring briar]

main guns are still much much better for that lol

[alpine onyx]

better, yes

but ammo is rare

and more 105mm ammo on board

also Eugen shot out her barrels like twice, non stop shore bombardment late war

[spring briar]

lmao

still, regardless of logistics, big guns are far better for it

muh texas floods bulge

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

every

single

time

[alpine onyx]

mfw it speaks more of her inadequate upgrades

something, something, 15° barrel elevation

[spring briar]

looks at the Bretagnes and Courbets which got their elevation upgraded

[eternal veldt]

Inb4 supercharges

Also, as far as I remember on the French and Italian front, DDs are enough of a threat to warrant large caliber anti surface battery

Warspite retained her 6" during modernisation because the board is convinced of its stopping power

And then there's the 5.25", but we shall ignore Drach on that front /s

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Also, this is excessively late, retrofit in AL =/= actual retrofit IRL

[alpine onyx]

5.25 superior to 5"/38

[eternal veldt]

Some are as simple as a pose change or a simple radar swap on the rigging

[alpine onyx]

Dido > Atlanta

[eternal veldt]

Against surface targets, maybe?

Heard the 5"/38 isnt too nice for surface combat.

[alpine onyx]

Though some do have a basis, like Köln's retrofit which gives her a helicopter which was what she was fitted with after a refit (but lost it again, because meh)

For surface targets it's a very sketchy thing

There are target and range combos where Dido may be superior

[spring briar]

the 5" 38's "problem" is that it's 5"

[eternal veldt]

Isnt 38 calibers also kinda a problem

[alpine onyx]

But there are also ranges where the sheer volume that both the gun and the quantity offer will be way more useful

[eternal veldt]

What was the weight of the 5.25 shell again

[spring briar]

I don't think the /38 would've been as succesful as it was without being /38

[eternal veldt]

80 lbs?

Brilliant stuff

[junior trench]

the 5"/38, if anything, is flinging its shells abnormally fast for the caliber:bore length ratio

[spring briar]

yeah it's a really hot charge

kentucky windage

[junior trench]

and still lasts forever

[alpine onyx]

Also not sure what exactly mofton said, but I recall him saying something about the actual impact of a larger shell being not all that impressive for the weight gains

But not sure if this was 4.7 vs 4.5

Or if it was about the 5.25

[spring briar]

chromium for days in the USN

[junior trench]

well the 4.5" is barely any heavier than the 4.7"

so no surprise there

and for the 5.25" vs the 4.5/4.7"

well

[eternal veldt]

I also like how UK just went fuck it and used the Mark 37 directors by the end of WWII, but totally different issue

[alpine onyx]

There we are

[junior trench]

the square cubed law is a massive bitch to begin with, but physics really hates explosions

[maiden citrus]

😵

[spring briar]

fragmentation size

hits different

[junior trench]

also

the whole thing where doubling the size of a charge barely extends the blast radius

relatively speaking

[spring briar]

half of the extra energy gets wasted from the extra volume of the charge

[alpine onyx]

I'll stick to the Atlanta 5in spam

So much use to make of it

[spring briar]

for a lower relative increase in fragmentation surface area

[cinder escarp]

I mean, in terms of secondaries, big secondaries are really quite pointless

Unless you want to get really big with them in which case you are just making a mixed-caliber pre-dread but modern.

[alpine onyx]

And last I recalled, Atlanta didn't get her forward turret stuck due to bow flex

[spring briar]

only worth if you make your secbat your main bat

[eternal veldt]

Which one got their turret stuck?

[alpine onyx]

Bonaventure when engaging

[cinder escarp]

But basically anything in the 4"-(low end charge/barrel length)6" range won't actually benefit from the bigger shell sizes. Besides the issues of scaling damage from kaboom, the armor of targets is irrelevant at these sizes and what ends up mattering for the most part is throw weight.

[eternal veldt]

Ugh, Didos being crapped out without even having enough mounts

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

this is what happens when you're too busy keeping lines open to make new WW1 pattern 4-6" guns

you have trouble making enough modern 4-6" guns

[manic latch]

Yo rich

Ushakov has 880mm back turret armor since 457mm/55 barrel lenght

[eternal veldt]

Best part, they fit it to PoW, which was subsequently lost

[spring briar]

if anything, the biggest advantage of going for a bigger shell in the 4-6" range is purely ballistic

which is very handy ofc

[eternal veldt]

Maka stands right ngl, the more I learn of the RN the worse it gets

[manic latch]

Yeah...

[maiden citrus]

[alpine onyx]

The Charybdis way of carrying eight 4.5s is superior anyway

[spring briar]

the more I learn about the MN the more I love Le Hardi

[eternal veldt]

Then T22 took her out

[alpine onyx]

But then Drach's "RN superior because bigger gun" falls apart

German Fleettorpedoboats flexing on what should've shredded them

[junior trench]

yesn't

because fixed 4.5", which is all wartime 4.5" ammo...

is nearly the same weight at 5.25" projectiles

"if I had a nickel for every time the the RN made a 4.5-5.25" gun which had ammo too heavy to be rapid fired, I'd have three nickels, which is fucking embarrassing."

[alpine onyx]

British syndrome gets ignored

[junior trench]

also

the British 4.5" mount has the dubious distinction of managing to pull a "trust no one, not even yourself"

[alpine onyx]

I'm not going to blame the gun for that

[junior trench]

which you'd think would have happened to at least one other navy at some point due to the sheer volume of shells fired throughout the whole war

[alpine onyx]

But their failure to install proper safety features

[junior trench]

"yes, it's very flashtight... what about the training and elevation interlocks?"

"... interlocks?"

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

also

the hunt begins for images of every mark of 5"/38 projectile

Rounds were normally 5.25crh. Some rounds may have been slightly boat-tailed.

[spring briar]

rebated boat tail?

in any case, boat tail is good

haven't seen boat tailed 5"/38 though

[junior trench]

huh

weird...

M910 25mm TPDS-T doesn't get the

This is a training item and is not used in combat.
line in its description

it is a 95g steel core projectile being launched at 1525 m/s though...

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

boat tail

hot

[spring briar]

I know the ammo for the 5"/54 uses boat tails regularly

[spring briar]

maybe some of the 5"/38's used in the 70's had some newer shells

ayo dunkek and stras

[maiden citrus]

5''/51 my beloved

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

oh

I see why

actually

nvm

Although the penetration achieved by the two combat rounds - armor-piercing, discarding sabot with tracer (APDS-T) and high explosive, incendiary with tracer (HEI-T) - differ slightly, both are eventually effective. However, the best target results are not achieved with either of the combat rounds. At close range against structural targets, the training round (TP-T) is significantly more effective. The TP-T round, however, has little utility when used against enemy armored vehicles.

still interesting

the whole statement is in regard to structural targets

thought for some reason the TP-T is noted as a training round only

while the TPDS-T isn't

despite the note that TP-T is the most effective when you want to breach walls

[manic latch]

How do you reload 127mm when out of ammo. Leave the turret? Or there is a underneath elevator

[junior trench]

which is probably because it's a 182g hollow steel projectile being smacked into a wall at 1100 m/s

so it dumps all the energy

[spring briar]

bushmaster lore

[junior trench]

rather than penetrating or exploding

[spring briar]

yeah
it mushrooms and plugs the wall creating a large scab of fragmented concrete

which is still moving in excess of lethal velocities

sort of like how training APDS or APFSDS would act in a similar way

being garbage against armor

[junior trench]

nah

the training APDS is still a solid slug at 1500+ m/s

[spring briar]

isnt it made from aluminium?

[junior trench]

steel body

[spring briar]

oh nvm then

[junior trench]

aluminum nose cone

babe

it's time for your cinnamon grenade

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

blunt trauma

is it like

play dough pellets or smth

[junior trench]

it's a 66mm grenade launcher projectile

that launches rubber pellets after impacting the ground

[spring briar]

right

is it for crowd control

[junior trench]

it's also meant to fit into 66mm vehicle smoke launchers

so

cluster launch

the blunt trauma grenades

[spring briar]

where flat nose 25mm

[spring briar]

that's the training round core I assume

[junior trench]

yes

[spring briar]

lmao

[junior trench]

does this mean the TPDS-T would also be the anti-diver 25mm

[spring briar]

they even crimped the windscreen onto it

maximum energy transfer

[spring briar]

idk depends on how well the windscreen crumples or shears off

[junior trench]

I did a super rough and dirty DeMarre for it and got 62mm pen at the muzzle

[spring briar]

so we can use it to hunt Agano

[junior trench]

you can kill BMPs with training ammo

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

it's flat nosed with a ballistic cap

so by WT logic it doesn't bounce

and armor is less than LOS effective against it

[spring briar]

amateur ballistic enthousiasts when they see a flat nosed shell

thinking it will dig into anything

[junior trench]

goofy ass unheat treated flat nosed shells thinking they can bite into anything

also

APFSDS nipple

very lewd

[spring briar]

very hard nipple

dig in very deep

[junior trench]

babe, it's time for your .45 ACP tracer ammo

[spring briar]

Babe what’s wrong? You haven’t touched your .45 acp rbt yet

[junior trench]

[spring briar]

For that 1/2 inch less bullet drop at 50 yards

[junior trench]

"fuck it, alloy rod core"

[spring briar]

feed ramp be damned

[spring briar]

thank you sniper, ghost warrior

very cool

50 bmg smoothbore

my man you don't need air guidance fins for such a stumpy bullet

[fierce sparrow]

[rapid junco]

Exactly 80 years
After a wave of protests from what had happened in our coast in the previous week
Vargas and his cabinet decided to declare war on Germany and Italy.
With the official declaration being published 9 days later

Did you realize that i specified Germany and Italy?
It is because we only declared war on Japan in June 6th, 1945
Until them, we only had cut diplomatic ties with Japan

[night heart]

Hello

[exotic scarab]

hi

[frigid karma]

hope you didn't buy that swastika shirt

[exotic scarab]

dont buy a shirt like that

also dont buy a liebhusaren or black brusnwicker shako because someone ruined the skull

[strong plank]

reminds me of when I went on an overseas school trip to europe

and the idiot of the trip thought it would be a funny idea to buy an ushanka, sickly and hammer and all, and wear it around

in the czech republic

needless to say he got a few looks

[haughty osprey]

Pfft, I went on a trip to Finland, my friend played the Soviet anthem on a speaker as a joke, and an older gentleman started fucking singing Njet Molotov

[desert agate]

Children

[haughty osprey]

Oh and an Italian learned about the Berlusconi pizza that Kotipizza has

[desert agate]

Most culturally insensitive thing I've done overseas was give Buckingham palace the middle finger

Which is deserved and I have every right to do

[haughty osprey]

"Why does this pizza share a name with that asshole PM we had?"

Waiter was too happy to explain

[haughty osprey]

At least you didn't play hide and seek in S-21 like I saw some kids doing when I visited

[desert agate]

I was there during the jubilee

So the Brits were in their monarchist fever

[haughty osprey]

Lol

[desert agate]

Sadly I recently discovered that I have British citizenship therefore I legally have to become a monarchist

[haughty osprey]

If Harry Potter himself can be a British Republican, so can you!

No joke, Daniel Radcliffe is a British Republican.

[desert agate]

Based

Unfortunately he is British therefore I care little for his opinion

[haughty osprey]

Fuckin' Nazis.

Can't wear my KhK Sunskin because they ruined skulls on caps

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Khk?

[ivory ridge]

Ok but now you have to explain it too

[haughty osprey]

https://www.atlasobscura.com/foods/reindeer-pizza-berlusconi-finland

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

Wish Soyuz made me a pizza too

[undone remnant]

Dumb thought

Oscillating battleship scale turrets

[subtle prawn]

https://youtu.be/KdQBxIWszO0

[manic latch]

Allies Wunderwaffe

[haughty osprey]

Interstate TDR

The Bat

VT Fuzes

The P-47

Azon bombs

[manic latch]

This is like saying T34/Sherman was a wunderwaffe

[tough quail]

i think you missed the part where wunderwaffe is usually derogatory and it means dumb bullshit that doesnt work

like habakkuk

....also P-47 is just a fucking weird one to put on the same list as fucking VT fuzes

[spring briar]

poggers where nuke

[fringe frost]

I wouldn't say P-47s were wunderwaffe, cause the German ones didn't exist much or didn't work out

where as the p47 worked extremely well

[tough quail]

all of those did

besides arguably the first one

but P-47s are just... kinda standard

[haughty osprey]

The P-47 is so godly its existence is proof that whatever higher powers are out there wanted Allied victory.

[frigid karma]

why are italy, netherlands, turkey exactly the same

and UK as well

seems pretty poor as an identification system

[spring briar]

add APDS to the list

[tough quail]

PTABs

[spring briar]

allied wonder weapons

[tough quail]

i still adore the fact that the higher ups in the VVS just didnt fucking believe the pilots in how effective PTABs were until they flew out with their own spotters

[rapid junco]

https://youtu.be/GyKaO-vGC78?t=142

[ivory ridge]

https://twitter.com/SavunmaSanayiST/status/1562076564950491137

SavunmaSanayiST.com (@SavunmaSanayiST)

AW249 Taarruz Helikopteri, ilk uçuşunu gerçekleştirdi.

Likes

293

Twitter · Aug 23, 2022, 1:57 PM

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/470628763970043904/1011387548276375592/output-onlinegiftools_5.gif

https://twitter.com/CGMeifangZhang/status/1562061254780411904

Zhang Meifang张美芳 (@CGMeifangZhang)

The history of American aggression in a snapshot! And this does not even include proxy wars, regime changes and other acts that destabilize regions, nations and peoples. Begs the question: will a nation that romances war ever know peace? Or allow for it? #US #war

Likes

383

Retweets

174

Twitter · Aug 23, 2022, 12:56 PM

"American agression"
includes the Revolution, Civil war, WW1, WW2

[rapid junco]

It fits the crazy people here saying it was the US who sank our ships

[shrewd pecan]

war in Afghanistan

[strong plank]

I mean technically couldn’t the civil war be considered American aggression

if you consider the confederates to still be American

[frigid karma]

Do those people know how the Korean War started

[ivory ridge]

If that counts, then a chinese official is the last person that should say anything

jesus christ the chinese civil wars

[frigid karma]

Jesus Christ’s brother

[strong plank]

Yeah I know it’s a Chinese gov account

I just find it funny that you could technically call that one true

since the war did begin when the confederates attacked fort Sumter

but yeah lol

Damn those aggressive Americans for starting…
checks notes
…The Vietnam War?

[humble mulch]

Gulf War as well iirc

[frigid karma]

Be the American Chinese propaganda makes you out to be

[junior trench]

the US was literally denying shit SK wanted because the leader of SK at the time wanted to invade NK

this then ended up being a problem because NK asked the USSR for shit to invade SK and USSR went "ok, sure"

[subtle prawn]

https://youtu.be/H50_a6AowB0

[manic latch]

[rapid junco]

This one for you

It's a former Russian DD

[manic latch]

[rapid junco]

Initally Avtroil of the Russian empire
Captured by the British in 1918 and handed over to Estonia (Lennuk)
And sold to Peru in 1933 and became "Almirante Guise"

[desert agate]

American Aggression
mentions the civil war but not fucking Veracruz

[unborn wyvern]

I mean if you really think about it the US/UK were the ones who overthrew Iranian prime minister Mohammad Mosaddegh leading to Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi to take power in Iran who's unpopular rule led to the 1979 Iranian revolution and a unstable situation in Iran leading to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to believe he could win a quick and decisive war against the new Islamic republic of Iran but the war caused Iraq to be burdened by massive foreign debits from buying modern western equipment for their military for the war causing Saddam to accuse Kuwait of side drilling and demanding they pay reparations and then when Kuwait only paid 9 out of the 10 billion promised he invaded for the other 1 billion i guess?

So it really was the US's Fault all along you see

[frigid karma]

ah, but it was the roman empire's republic system which inspired some of the aspects behind British parliamentary democracy, which led to the formation of the American republic as a result of British democracy. Therefore Gulf War is the fault of italians

[unborn wyvern]

Mama Mia! 🇮🇹 🤌

[tiny comet]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WpccLU6polA

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0FD2GK06KA

[undone remnant]

Ooh drach uploaded

[humble mulch]

A Zriny II captured assault gun used by Romanian troops near Cluj.

Romanian Panzer 35T and crew

[unborn wyvern]

random guy: "I am the brother of Jesus Christ"

starts war

20–30 million dead

[humble mulch]

Well actually the US and UK only fucked with Iran more with putting the Shah in power cause the Soviets and UK invaded Iran and had a hard time finding pro allied folk to put in charge, further fucking up Iran and the Middle East even more. So it's actually the Roman's fault

[unborn wyvern]

and after all those free cab rides he gives you... that bastard

[frigid karma]

Who

[unborn wyvern]

Roman bellic, GTA 4.

[austere wren]

P-47 is cool but F4u is 👌

[unborn wyvern]

What? not the F6F? the P-47 but carrier flavored?

[humble mulch]

how about the flat f4u

the IAR-80

[dusty kraken]

F8F for F6F that went to the gym

[fading blaze]

hello hello this is probably unrelated to history but since i don't really know alot about ship armor just wanna ask smthn

so this is basically from WT (ignore that)

but did the Kongos have a gaping hole in their deck armor?

not sure if any of this armor is accurate since it's a game but it just seems a bit off

[ivory ridge]

You're only looking at citadel armor like that, you have to toggle external armor on the left side iirc

[fading blaze]

No i know that

But even w/ the external showing

that gaping hole still exists

ignore the quality due to me not having a strong enough pc yet

this is w/ external armor

you can still see that rectangle

[frigid karma]

yea, that's the hole hit's dick left in her

jokes aside there should be armor there

[fading blaze]

yeah, i was wondering why it just looks

out of place or something

[frigid karma]

otherwise bombs could fly through the unarmored superstructure and blow up the ship

[fading blaze]

I think Kongo has the same issue too

[frigid karma]

this is WT naval, they dont really care

[fading blaze]

that, too ig

they'll add Kronsh before they fix the current ships

or even add the French navy

Gonna just double check to see if Kongo suffers the same issue

oh boy

anyways ty for helping me clear the confusion

thought it was for "historical accuracy" or smthn for a second

[alpine onyx]

At least some armor should be there, but you would have holes in the deck due to the boiler uptakes

but usually those got covered with armored gratings (which afaik are not modeled in WT on any ship)

[spring briar]

[fading blaze]

interesting

But yeah, doubt they'll fix this

Naval isn't exactly a popular gamemode

[alpine onyx]

They do fix armor models when you provide the appropriate sources

[fading blaze]

p sure someone submitted one about Kongo a while ago

[alpine onyx]

Assuming of course, they don't just remove the armor outright

[fading blaze]

no answer to that yet

[alpine onyx]

looks at Köln getting her incorrectly modeled citadel bulkhead fixed by having no more bulkhead

[spring briar]

where MN

[fading blaze]

rule of thumb for WT naval

if it isn't soviet it aint getting fixed

[alpine onyx]

But they did fix Spee's belt

[fading blaze]

HE "bug" still not fixed

True true

[alpine onyx]

She now has the historical 80-100mm belt

instead of the uniform 100mm one

[fading blaze]

but when i played a match w/ Kaiser i witnessed him det a spee's ammo

w/ Atlanta

[spring briar]

Graf Spee
who crawled through 500 yards of shit and came out clean on the other side

[fading blaze]

but yeah she seems more survivable than what she used to be

Honestly i'd prefer if gaijin just atleast try to fix some of the current errors

you know, instead of adding 1960s era cruisers?

[alpine onyx]

And they fixed the mess that Leipzig's armor is

[fading blaze]

can't really tell how bugged/incorrect they were

dont have the leipzigs yet

[alpine onyx]

now she has the correct wtfiswrongwithyou 20-50mm belt with inconsistent turtlebacks and paper thin citadel bulkheads

[ivory ridge]

Well now light cruisers can just kill battleships by spamming HE at their main belt because of """armor degradation""" which results in hull break and an insta kill so

[fading blaze]

they didn't remove anything this time?

woah

[fading blaze]

Yeah this can happen

though in all my times playing Haruna, most of my deaths are by fire

And that occasional Kronshtadt sniping you from miles away as soon as you spawn

don't have much hope in Alaska either

Her AA looks great but that's a downside

dont know if HE is meant to be this effective irl but hee hoo here we are

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

If your braincells are not dying while looking at this, you're doing it wrong

[ivory ridge]

Le clusterfuck

[spring briar]

hope is a good thing
maybe even the best of things

but this belt

looks more like a temperature gradient

[alpine onyx]

And you wanna know that the belt of the Königsbergs looked like?

[spring briar]

ohnyo

[fading blaze]

oh no

[alpine onyx]

[fading blaze]

bruh

[alpine onyx]

It's so... normal

[eternal veldt]

Soyuz syndrome - small

Likely not chosen to deflect particular shells at a particular range either.

[dapper parcel]

Soyuz is the other way round

[eternal veldt]

Leipzig Lobotomy - Large?

I can live with that.

[dapper parcel]

I mean if Soyuz is thicker at the bow to account for facetanking, then Leipzig's thicker at the middle is just asking for a broadside(?)
based

[eternal veldt]

Ah, I misremembered Soyuz being more normal

Yes, Reverse Soyuz

[manic latch]

Yah Soyuz goes
20mm-220mm-420mm-406mm-390mm-375mm

[eternal veldt]

🤦‍♂️

[alpine onyx]

I too hate the idea of manufacturing many plates of the same thickness

Rather bring in some variety

[manic latch]

But with bis model rework

[manic latch]

"And everything was beautiful once again"

Just a straight line 380mm

[spring briar]

remember krem

hope is a good thing

maybe the best of things

and good things never die

[ivory ridge]

[fading blaze]

Lmao what the fuck

the missing deck armor is so bad

a literal DD/CL can water your crew away just by aiming at the middle

[spring briar]

it'll be fixed

no worries

[fading blaze]

Doubt

Kongo has the exact same problem on missing armor

and it's been how long since her release

Funny thing is about 2 weeks ago gaijin fixed an issue w/ Kongo

that being her secondaries can't switch ammo types

yet they completely ignored her armor

The nerves of soviet naval mains to say that their naval grind is "shit"

[spring briar]

it'll get fixed like they fixed Hyuuga
it took a while for her too

[fading blaze]

yeah

best way to play the Kongos sadly

is to harass CLs as quick as possible

[spring briar]

French boys: wtf is a naval grind

[fading blaze]

and DO NOT get hit by anything

bro i have seen a DD water crew

you just gotta aim at the middle lmao

but yeah, Gaijin neglecting the french navy is bullshit

Italy, too

[spring briar]

italy is sad but atleast they have ships

like

[fading blaze]

I mean for Germany i kind of underestand

most of the german roster is just WW1 era for top tier

[spring briar]

the French navy not existing is just bullshit

[fading blaze]

yeah

i really don't know why it isnt there

[spring briar]

2nd largest navy in europe

[fading blaze]

it was CERTAINLY larger than the USSR or German fleet

[spring briar]

lmao

[fading blaze]

but it's war thunder right?

USSR gotta be good at everything

[spring briar]

germany and USSR both

ngl

[fading blaze]

Tanks and planes i can accept

but naval?

what a fucking joke

[spring briar]

I mean Germany nearly has all its battleships classes

light cruisers

dd's

sigh

but

gotta keep the hope up

[fading blaze]

yeah

sadly

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/get-busy-living-or-get-busy-dying-andy-dufresne-red-ellis-boyd-redding-morgan-freeman-gif-23667429

[fading blaze]

I see people begging for Bismarck jsut because "alaska"

Funniest part is i don't see Alaska as a threat

she'll either be equal or a worse Kronsh

[spring briar]

WT doesn't model shell differences between navies

kinda sad

[fading blaze]

though irl we'll never know

[ivory ridge]

The hilarious part is that Filler > pen

And SAP > AP

[fading blaze]

yeah

[ivory ridge]

Because the fighting ranges are so small

[fading blaze]

AP is absolute shit in WT

that's why american BBs suck

HE/SAP is the meta

[spring briar]

happy dunkerque noises

[fading blaze]

that, and shell velocity

Trust me

Haruna absolutely slaps with her SAP

[ivory ridge]

Dante with the highest pen in the game somehow

but garbage filler

[spring briar]

so dunkerque with her SAP + high muzzle velocity will be strong?

[fading blaze]

i really don't understand how SAP or HE would work irl

[ivory ridge]

This will hurt the Littorios a lot, but at least they have SAP

[manic latch]

She does have same belt armor and better speed with shitton of AA. But her most unique feature is super heavy AP for 305mm

[fading blaze]

Like it can cause fires

[fading blaze]

Which is sadly a reason why she wont do well

AP doesn't work in WT lmao

[spring briar]

hopefully one day

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

sirene you don't deserve to cope

your entire navy is in the game

[manic latch]

Yeah and Tirpitz/Bismarck were in the files

[alpine onyx]

I still spawn in my Königsberg 9km away from half a dozen battleships

[spring briar]

atleast you can spawn in a ship of your country

just you wait

dunkek be comin

[alpine onyx]

Just because Köln managed to chadwalk through the firing arcs of a Fortress doesn't mean I can do that in video games

[manic latch]

Dunkek will face with Hood

[fading blaze]

I kinda want to play a bit of HMS

but all i have is an unspaded liverpool for now

[manic latch]

Hms has good potential coming

QEs should appear after Hood

[fading blaze]

fuck

[manic latch]

Then KGVs

[fading blaze]

yeah true

My most progressed tree is USS

HUGE mistake

on my end

[manic latch]

I mean Iowa will come eventually

And even Burkes I guess

Call it future investment

[fading blaze]

Eventually

gaijin is gonna nerf the Iowas

look at Arizona

[manic latch]

Will be funny US getting Colorados while Germany getting Bismarck

[spring briar]

France should be fine because AP and SAP options on most ships

so I'll grind that

[manic latch]

Ye SAP god

[spring briar]

also French armor layout in interwar ships is great for WT

thick deck

angled belt

however

one issue

no french botes

aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[fading blaze]

turtleback armor works good in WT so yeah theres that lol

[manic latch]

Wonder if British will get Lion. Doubt Vanguard will be enough for vs Iowa and Yamato

[fading blaze]

Honestly

Probably

[manic latch]

Tho I'm worried about Alsace since she wasn't laid down

[fading blaze]

Gaijin siad they don't mind adding ships that were LAID down

said*

[manic latch]

Yeah

[fading blaze]

so Vanguard can definitely be ingame

Lion has a good chance

[manic latch]

So H-39, Soyuz, Lion is safe

But Montana and Alsace is blurred

[spring briar]

all I need is Dunkerque

[manic latch]

Thats easy

Will %100 come before Richies

[fading blaze]

I just don't want any made up paper ships and im fine

[manic latch]

Gaijin removes them anyway

Like the German tanks and Japanese jets

Tho we still got that odd Japanese tank hunter

[fading blaze]

Also

on the issue of Kongo and Haruna not having armor

apparently

gaijin doesnt consider HTS as armour

Best part?

all the decks are modelled on Hood so there's that

[manic latch]

I'm glad gaijin didn't lose hope on naval still

Despite lack of attention, they get content and changes

[fading blaze]

Content that either ruins the game

powercreeps shit to oblivion

or is just unfinished and rushed

They think Alaska is what the US tree needs to have a "competitive" top tier ship

I just got Haruna because I like the design of the Kongos in general

Though i'm not touching any US BB until its probably an Iowa

if gaijin actually makes the Iowa shit then that'll cause alot of issues

[alpine onyx]

All this talk about battleships

True beauty is in smaller ships

[manic latch]

North Carolina might be good

Or South Dakota especially

[fading blaze]

Yeah

Again, always have low expectations

those BBs may have been alright irl

but that doesn't matter to gaijin

oh also

you know that soviet CL that's coming next update

it has 30mm CIWS lol

8 of them

[alpine onyx]

or we go even smoler

[fading blaze]

Honestly

its only recently i realized how useful dazzle camouflages are

[eternal veldt]

They're good for deceiving the enemy of the ship's bearing and course, but you can only do that so much.

[rapid junco]

Is it normal to the general public to think that Naval Aviation equals carrier borne Aviation?

[manic latch]

https://twitter.com/WarThunder/status/1562768937313398784?t=wFUhzdWbTZmkJ4nFczQuFQ&s=19

War Thunder (@WarThunder)

The VRCC Centauro is a Spanish variant of the legendary wheeled tank destroyer that will come to War Thunder with the next major update! Laser-sharp 105mm gun, high speed, thermal imager and of course, premium bonuses!
👉 https://t.co/xaW4CvYTfY

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 25, 2022, 11:48 AM

Undef will be happy

[manic latch]

Mikhail Kutuzov with refit ye

[fading blaze]

Also

a "rook" decal has been datamined too

[manic latch]

Yeah it could be Su-25

Makes sense after A-10

[ivory ridge]

Kevlar cheeks, Gen 2 thermals, DM33
My beloved

[fading blaze]

Mhm

maybe it'll get the A-10 treatment

one will have limited armaments, the other tree version will be full

ok gaijin please show us possible Fulcrums or Vipers

[manic latch]

Tornado

[fading blaze]

Eh, that'd be great

for ground RB only

Unless we're talking about the Tornado F.3 (aka ADV variant)

however only Italy and the UK will get that

Germany will probably only have the IDS

the ADV variant basically had a better engine/accel and more fuel

as well as a slightly longer airframe

[spring briar]

Ramjet bullet

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684722676371423267/1012353702620835870/Screenshot_20220825-153200-645.png

[chilly osprey]

lmao

too true

[shrewd pecan]

Germany with no BVR capable plane until the addition of the MIG-29 and AMRAAM F-4

[manic latch]

German Mig 29

[ivory ridge]

https://twitter.com/jmsdf_pao_eng/status/1562620782097797121

Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (@jmsdf_pao_eng)

There is one thing in the photo that isn‘t a ship mixed in.

#amphibian #rescue #flyingboat #JMSDF70th

Likes

378

Twitter · Aug 25, 2022, 2:00 AM

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wex2LSwIyMc

[manic latch]

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ins-vikrant-india-indigenous-aircraft-carrier-commissioned-september-2-kochi/article65810077.ece

From November we will commence landing trails which we hope to complete by middle of next year. We will put in all effort so that the aircraft carrier is operational with the aircraft and the aircraft which are available with us are the MiG-29s,” Vice Adm. Ghormade said at a press conference ahead of the commissioning. The carrier should be fully operational by end 2023, he stated

Hmm Mig 29 still. Wonder when F18 purchase and delivery be done

[fading blaze]

damn i almost forgot my country even has a navy

to be fair we only have like 1cm of water anyway

[rapid junco]

Paraguay and Bolivia have their own navies
Despite both being landlocked countries
Well, they have riverine navies that is

[tough quail]

huh i didnt know the su-25s name translated to rook

neat

[fading blaze]

lol

all we have are frigates and a few destroyers anyway

[dapper parcel]

what navy? China's Indian Ocean fleet?

[shrewd pecan]

another Soviet CAS plane

[ivory ridge]

I got plon

[tough quail]

yaes

[rapid junco]

Might i ask what country you are from?

[fading blaze]

The only plaen i have

its sadly commercial

B777 300ER

[spring briar]

I have a B2 bomber model

[manic latch]

Based

They are already retiring them tho

For inferior smaller B-21s

[eternal veldt]

alright, time to be evil

when you counterjerk too hard

[desert agate]

Knocking out her own radar is not equivalent to losing fire control

These mf redditors

[eternal veldt]

and happened not only to Bismarck, so that point is moot

Beeg Bayern is the real take though

[alpine onyx]

But it's mostly known for Bismarck, so must be a German problem

[eternal veldt]

Dunk puts it right

Two polar opposites to evaluate Bismarck

Unstoppable killing machine, or pile of scrap

[alpine onyx]

[frigid karma]

honestly most things involving germany

[eternal veldt]

More insane takes

[frigid karma]

there's the cult of germany should've won the war

[eternal veldt]

"Swordfish is the only British Anti ship aircraft"

[frigid karma]

and the reactionary "germany sucks at everything and anything"

[eternal veldt]

Barracuda, Albacore, Beaufighters:

What a shitshow

AoN = unsinkable
Bismarck belt never penetrated, etc

[alpine onyx]

I dunno, I'm currently browsing through all the relevant war diaries to get a picture of how often German ships had an AA encounter while underway, how many planes they faced, what the general state of AA was and if they were hit by something of relevance during the battle

[frigid karma]

speaking of AoN, i heard there was also a lot of criticism directed towards it at JB because of a big hole in her at casablanca

[alpine onyx]

And like, I only have two engagements where a hit was scored, both Bismarck

[frigid karma]

which is actually from ranger's bomb

[eternal veldt]

🤦‍♂️

[alpine onyx]

Lützow is gonna add a third one with that aerial torp, but other than that, German AA did it's job

[eternal veldt]

If you want to criticize Jean Bart, its the insanity that is 3600 152mm shells in her magazines if full

Which, if detonated, is apparently more powerful than Hood's magazine detonation

400 rounds per gun

[alpine onyx]

I'll critizise the gun layout, and the French will agree with me

[eternal veldt]

All forward or secbat?

[alpine onyx]

Both

[eternal veldt]

Fair enough.

But then again, France does not know the secret of Littorio

(which is flat out lying)

Though I guess Riche got quite a bit inflated too as built, and especially after US refits.

[alpine onyx]

Quick look at Jordan, standard displacement is 38,000 tons?

[frigid karma]

TBH i never understood gascogne

[eternal veldt]

Yea.

[frigid karma]

you wanted all guns forward for a reason

[eternal veldt]

Grew to 43k IIRC.

[alpine onyx]

Can maybe do some long/short ton fuckery

[frigid karma]

and before the richelieus are even DONE

you make a plan that basically implies "all front guns is stoopid"

[eternal veldt]

All forward is disadvanteous, as proven at Mers El Kebir

An all forward layout meant the ships were unable to bear the main battery on Somerville while getting pounded

Gascogne is a stopgap measure, since Bort will be delayed in launching

Which is why Clemenceau saw less modifications (Richelieu was ahead) , but Gascogne greatly so

[alpine onyx]

All forward also had this rather annoying trait of having to install a 9m buffer between the magazines (unless you want to get into dangerous territories), which for Richelieu meant having to provide small arms magazines and diesel generators with more armor than usual, increasing weight again

[eternal veldt]

What I have concern is Gascogne's hangar layout

[alpine onyx]

And the SecBat is usually in a less favorable layout

[eternal veldt]

Which the British is vehemently against

Due to flooding and structural concerns

[alpine onyx]

Ah, an aft hangar

[eternal veldt]

The Brits mistakenly thought US BBs had that like the US cruisers

They weren't. Keep them on dollies on the weather deck, and just toss the planes overboard if damaged.

[frigid karma]

the US do like tossing over aircraft

[eternal veldt]

Its pretty much standard practice.

[frigid karma]

The tossing overboard of like 20 million dollars of Hueys in Vietnam was so goddamn wholesome

[eternal veldt]

Italians did the same with Ro.43s IIRC.

The Japanese learnt to dump their torpedoes overboard if things start going

[frigid karma]

mogami did

mikuma forgor 💀

[eternal veldt]

Yahagi did.

[alpine onyx]

I'd say the Germans learnt to dump their depth charges, but by the time they might've realized that they already had them uninstalled

[eternal veldt]

Funnily enough, I dont think Yahagi tossed her seaplane overboard

Photos show the plane basically straddling the catapult after damage

And just a piece of wing amidst an oil slick after going under

[alpine onyx]

Yeah, looking at that pic of her sitting with shit exploding all around

Looks very much like a former floatplane on her cat

Nya

[celest fractal]

If the USN decided to go with the ST-21 (Super Tomcat 21st Century) would its Airwings gain or lose capability?

[shrewd pecan]

What are you sacrificing for it

[shrewd pecan]

main reason tomcat was dropped was due to cost for a capability that could be offered by less expensive platforms

Tomcat was always a expensive bird with high running cost

[celest fractal]

[shrewd pecan]

so it boils down to what are you sacrificing for keeping the Tomcat

fleet would maintain its extreme long range airborne bomber/anti ship missile defense

along with the F-14s stupid long range radar

[celest fractal]

But would the Navy lose ground attack capability?

[shrewd pecan]

not necessarily

Tomcat still was a decent multi role and theoretically with the benefit of hindset you could sacrifice more troublesome programs like LCS for it

[celest fractal]

[shrewd pecan]

tho fundamentally considering the era TC-21 would of entered service it would be rather out of place for the mission sets for the global war on terror and would likely lack any near peer opponent to really counter, by the time it’s role would of become relevant F-35 would be entering service which would of likely replaced it

and would of likely also been cheaper considering how expensive the tomcat was

[celest fractal]

Okay

[shrewd pecan]

honestly ideally the navy would of gone with something in between the A-12 and the NATF

NATF concept as it was proposed likely would of end up with tomcat syndrome of high operating costs and purchasing costs due to unneeded complexity (I don’t know why a fifth gen needs variable swept wings even if it looks cool)

[celest fractal]

Maybe they needed better low speed flight performance

[shrewd pecan]

like since this is the only example I can think of, something akin to the stealth hornet in arma 3 where the navy could of gone for a multi role fifth gen a step below the F-22 but provides the same role as the super hornet

[celest fractal]

[shrewd pecan]

but eh that’s just assuming the navy can manage any form of aircraft related development program successfully

considering all but one of their late Cold War programs failed and the one that succeeded was just the obese hornet

[tight violet]

How cursed is this md-11 but twinjet

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgvCepc-SV4

[somber knoll]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg old gem but still beautiful.

[zealous vine]

What do y'all think about the SLRC cannon?

[desert agate]

cry about it

[remote monolith]

on this day the Krakatoa eruption reached it peak and Rakata basically evaporated

[eternal veldt]

I forgot the exact wording, but the citadel area of Bismarck was definitely holed.

Few shells appear to have penetrated to the machinery or magazines within the armored citadel. The 320mm armor plates of the main side belt, supplemented by the 110-mm armor slopes to the lower edge of the main armor, appear to have performed as designed. There were few photographic or video images showing the main side belt, so analysis of such limited evidence is inconclusive. At the close ranges at which the battle was fought, the British 14-inch and 16-inch guns were capable of penetrating the main side belt armor, but the side armor/slopes combination appears to have been infrequently penetrated, if at all. The armor system on Bismarck had been optimized for effectiveness in relatively close-range gunnery actions, although it was inadequate to protect against long-range shellfire. The fragmentary information now available indicates that the propulsion plant continued to operate throughout the action, with only two shells having penetrated into this complex.

[fast moat]

hmm

[eternal veldt]

[fast moat]

discussion about bismarck and her effectiveness as a battleship

drach posted a video about this exact topic 12 hours ago

[subtle prawn]

The four Mogadors authorised under the 1938 bis estimates would have been of a modified design with improved machinery and greater endurance. Two twin 100mm Mle 1930 high-angle gun mountings would have replaced the after torpedo tubes, and the secondary fire control position would have been replaced by an HA director similar to that fitted in contemporary French cruisers. The close-range anti-aircraft armament was to comprise four 13.2mm Hotchkiss CAD, the additional two mountings being fitted aft in place of the twin 37mm mounting. As part compensation for the reduction in the number of torpedo tubes, two reloads for the forward tubes would have been embarked in lockers, as in the Le Fantasques, for a total of eight torpedoes.

The actual Kléber and not Weegee’s version of it huh…

[spiral cedar]

We have this conversation here like once a month

Don’t worry

[somber knoll]

it's a recurring wehraboo debunking thing so always brace yourself

[tough quail]

did you know that richelieu could solo the kriegsmarine surface fleet

[alpine onyx]

Why would one want to watch a Drach vid on Bismarck?

[spring briar]

No clue

Cuz I wont

[hushed saffron]

Sleep deprivation maybe?

[frigid karma]

i'll watch a drach video when he provides some fucking sources

[alpine onyx]

His source for Bismarck's firing control cable stuff was "As far as I have been able to read"

isn't that a nice source?

meanwhile primary sources stating the opposite

[frigid karma]

lame

he should follow shinano's method of source gathering and just lucid dream

[eternal veldt]

He recently started adding sources to his videos.

[frigid karma]

"it was revealed to me in a dream" - shinano

[alpine onyx]

actual sources?

Or just amazon links?

[frigid karma]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Operation-Ne...
https://www.dday-overlord.com/en/d-da...
https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-b...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Operation-Ne...
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/D-Day-Minute...

[eternal veldt]

hah, still links unfortunately.

[alpine onyx]

I'll just link to the German national library

my source is probably in there somewhere

[frigid karma]

bundesarchive, the largest landfill for napkins in all of europe

and they still won't let you see some of the more tasteful doodles

[eternal veldt]

largest uncategorized landfill*

[frigid karma]

like bro

[eternal veldt]

I'm not letting you go for the undocumented mess that is RM 24, sorry.

[frigid karma]

it's a fucking ww2 warship

[alpine onyx]

I'd say the Bundesarchiv is very open

the question for me is mostly if they have digitized it already

[unborn wyvern]

Ground attack was done by other planes like the A-6 intruder or the F/A-18 hornet

The F-14 was capable of bombing things but was designed to be an interceptor first and foremost

It's another reason why the Tomcat was scrapped

The USN had a different plane for each role

S-2s and S-3s for anti ship

F-14s for interception

F/A-18s for multirole

C-2 traders for resupply

E-2C for AEW&C

UH-60s for SAR & ASW

Also F-4s and E-6s for electronic warfare

So you have all these planes but only enough space for about 90-100 so the navy wanted less types of planes

[manic latch]

Aint S are ASW

[unborn wyvern]

Yeh a S-2 trackers and S-3 Vikings did ASW too

[manic latch]

No like literally. ASW is their main role

The Grumman S-2 Tracker (S2F prior to 1962) was the first purpose-built, single airframe anti-submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft to enter service with the United States Navy.

The S-3 was developed in response to the VSX program conducted by the U.S. Navy (USN) to procure a successor anti-submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft to the Grumman S-2 Tracker

[unborn wyvern]

Yeah the ASW helicopters were more for screen ships but carriers still carry helicopters

Point is carriers had very diverse airwings back in the 70s-90s but now aside from the C-2s, E-2s and helicopters everything is done by the Super hornet which is better

They can send any plane on any mission and the repair crews don't have to worry about fixing an entire airforce now just half one

[undone remnant]

huh i can't even imagine until today

that there's people who thinks bismarck was scuttled

[spring briar]

Found this boy while on vacation

@tough quail

[tough quail]

Yooooooo

[spring briar]

It actually big

[manic latch]

It's a tank

[tough quail]

it's the tank

[desert agate]

ah yes

digitised archives

something i dream of

AWM has digitised a lot of its collection but not all, and not all of it is accessible for free

ANN has done jack shit

you can request individual documents

RAN has also got a lot of documents digitised but its mainly just ships logs rather than wider documentation surrounding operational planning etc

[strong plank]

Today’s the day boys

CVN-80’s having her keel-laying ceremony today

https://youtu.be/0XuRuoSyIbs

[earnest cloak]

Big E

[rapid junco]

Some of FGV have that
You need to pay for seeing pictures with better resolution and quality

Speaking of museums
The IWM
I need to send them an email for them to correct something

Surprising for me
It seems that they included a page about the accident that happened with Lt. Possolo in England

Thing is
They used this picture for him
Of Lt. Fileto

This is how Possolo really looked

[gilded girder]

Applies to alot of military stuff I feel

[frigid karma]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/699927655188791357/1013228890359087127/Screenshot_20220828-012712_Twitter.jpg

[eternal veldt]

Enzo, I wouldnt bother with correcting the IWM

Far too many things are poorly or wrongly captioned on that website.

Be it British, French, or something else on the naval front.

[rapid junco]

Welp
I'll move on to ask the RAF Archives if there's any mentions of "The 9 of England" (The nickname i gave to the group of pilot volunteers)

On their documents

[eternal veldt]

I'm never forgiving them for labelling Trento as a "French cruiser"

[spring briar]

[exotic scarab]

Wait

[subtle prawn]

Le Hardi as she might have looked if she had been completed according to the avant-projet of late 1932, with twin 130mm mountings fore and aft and a uniform close-range AA armament of eight (4 x II) 13.2mm Hotchkiss MG.

[spring briar]

The bad version

[subtle prawn]

And I thought the specs of the original design was already sounding underarmed even before comparison to it’s contemporaries

[manic latch]

Wait what?

10m X 14m elevators?

[manic latch]

@spring briar Rafale M lost from the start

I don't think she can fit the elevator. Especially without folding wings

But F-18 is also Length:  (18.31 m)
Wingspan: (13.62 m)

Huh...

I am sure she can fit wings wise by folding but how they will fix the lenght issue

[cinder escarp]

So uh, it was designed around MiG-29K and Tejas

[ruby zinc]

wazzup

what ya guys think of the naval battles in guadalcanal and solomon islands?

[spiral cedar]

Where the USN learned to fight

At least, the surface branch

[dapper parcel]

you can overhang elevator, y'now

[ruby zinc]

they have alot of meh admirals that dont use the new SG radars

they got the radar advantage but didnt use it

[gilded girder]

I mean

Weren't the early ones not that great?

I think I remember Jaba saying something on the lines of that

Something with shell splashes