history

[eternal veldt]

Ate a long lance and was fine

[alpine onyx]

At her forward turret, on top of that

[somber knoll]

because I just remembered that the USN just realized the sodaks and Iowas TDS looked shitty, so they decided to just revert back to NC's design with improvements for Montana

[alpine onyx]

So not even the strongest point of the system, rather one of the weakest

iir it wasn't that it was shitty, but that it didn't exceed the requirements like NC's did

[somber knoll]

yeah that

[eternal veldt]

SoDak IIRC was more of a compromise on weight, and bulges aren't exactly nice for speed

[maiden citrus]

yeah, after tinkering it was still a great system, iowa's performance is still classified iirc

[alpine onyx]

I think they declassified it a few years ago

But no one really published it

[spring briar]

guys
I know it's good TDS
it just doesn't catch the eye as much as Tennee's

[alpine onyx]

But some people I'd consider trustworthy in naval tech talk discussed the findings in them

[maiden citrus]

I mean, many took torpedoes, only weird ones like juneau getting hit in the same place twice got noticed

[alpine onyx]

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/240543-torpedo-protection-system-of-bb57-south-dakota-and-bb61-iowa-classes/

[maiden citrus]

omega chonk

[alpine onyx]

Here we go

[spring briar]

thing I like about sodak tds is that a large chunk of the tds is in front of the plane of the belt armor

see what I mean

[alpine onyx]

That's not really meant to be a knock against USN cruisers, I love most of them

[spring briar]

USN cruisers just didn't invest in it
plain and simple

[alpine onyx]

More that I find it weird how a cruiser whose TDS has done a good enough job of keeping a torpedo hit out gets her TDS bullied for taking a torpedo hit

[spring briar]

bluch?

[alpine onyx]

Yes

[spring briar]

she would've been unsalvageable regardless

[eternal veldt]

Blücher was getting shelled quite hard at that point, if I recall?

Even the hangar's ablaze.

[alpine onyx]

She was considered salvagable until the fires set off her auxiliary magazine

And tore out half of her side

[spring briar]

ergo

unsalvageable

was the fire even controlled?

[alpine onyx]

Impossible to control, since the hallways were stacked with ammunition for landing parties

[spring briar]

exactly

people bash blucher but not nearly as much as the idiots that put her in that situation

[eternal veldt]

but sunk by whitehead torpedo funni

[maiden citrus]

interesting and seems to infer what I argue most of the time anyway

[alpine onyx]

Sending a cruiser that is 50% ammo transport to pass a potentially hostile fort at point blank range

[spring briar]

in a fjord

with ships behind her

[maiden citrus]

just often qualitative language by authors can be taken out of context, like how the sodaks are called 'cramped' in comparison to nc when nc is a luxury yacht so what does that even mean

[eternal veldt]

Just curious, were the crew at action stations?

[alpine onyx]

Think so, yes

She did return fire quickly

[spring briar]

I mean
it is, right?

[alpine onyx]

But the first hit was a 24cm shell into her hangar, and then another one that got into her forward superstructure

[spring briar]

24cm?

not 28?

[alpine onyx]

Was it 24?

[spring briar]

28

[alpine onyx]

Big shell

[eternal veldt]

yea, as I recall her DCT was out after...15 mins?

[alpine onyx]

Big HE

And then showered in like a dozen 15cm hits

[eternal veldt]

28cm

Krupp guns

[spring briar]

and now she's a cute SSR
congrats

[eternal veldt]

Yea, she looks cute.

[alpine onyx]

I appreciate her

[eternal veldt]

Kudos to the artist for doing the yellow Weserübung turret tops too.

[spring briar]

yeah

noticed it too

[eternal veldt]

aaaand the Atlantic Bow too, albeit turned into a sawshark

[alpine onyx]

Mhm

[maiden citrus]

based

[spring briar]

Sirene
would you trade in Brünhilde for Lorraine

[alpine onyx]

What is Brünhilde anyway?

Another O?

[spring briar]

O class yes

[alpine onyx]

Booo

Should've given Schlesien

[eternal veldt]

Proper O at least.

Not Ägir kitbash...

[spring briar]

hate her outfit
she stole agirs clothes

[eternal veldt]

Ägir has the O-class hull form okay

armour scheme, we don't discuss that

[alpine onyx]

looks at turtleback nonsense

[eternal veldt]

I'm hoping that Manjuu doesn't try to reference that in skills or something else

but they likely won't

[alpine onyx]

Could just give her reduced damage by cruisers and destroyers as skills, since that was the reasoning behind her scheme

[eternal veldt]

I'd think they'd just give the "Heavy" armour modifier and call it a day

as they did with Ägir

[spring briar]

Provence

[alpine onyx]

You got a hole in your left wing

[spring briar]

Just the turtleback?

[eternal veldt]

remind me what's wrong with that again?

[spring briar]

well

gmm

[alpine onyx]

But did ya know Yamato had the same?

[eternal veldt]

Oh, right, I think AoTS covered it, but nonetheless, let me post the Yamato machinery again now that I have new loot

[alpine onyx]

Yeah, saw it there earlier when looking for those ventilation trunks

[spring briar]

yes
and it is often mentioned in evaluation of her

but the German double bottom isn't

[alpine onyx]

tbh, haven't heard of that before

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

I hear about the joint between the belts

[spring briar]

Yammy also had the girded and joint problem

[alpine onyx]

Sometimes about that silly transverse H-beam

[alpine onyx]

But not the double hull thingy

[eternal veldt]

I'd need more than arrows to understand, too dumb.

[spring briar]

on top, there's 3 layers of TDS protecting the citadel

[alpine onyx]

It's about absorbing/taking forces

[spring briar]

just below it, because the double bottom doesn't connect up with the double bottom on the bottom of the hull, there's only 2 layers

and this stretches all the way along the citadel

[somber knoll]

that center prop layout is... interesting.

[eternal veldt]

That's not a prop, just the keel, I think.

[spring briar]

no, I meant the joint issue

[eternal veldt]

Yamato uses four shafts, three bladed propellers.

[somber knoll]

oh, I meant shafts yeah

car mechanic brain

[eternal veldt]

Also, maybe Riche might like this one

Thought it doesn't exactly give you any more information

[spring briar]

I know the yammy shell internals like my back pocket

but still nice to see

[alpine onyx]

Was talking about that

[eternal veldt]

Book gave me some good info on two things so far:

1. Hull lines for Shinano/111 (Kii) is different, so not just a mere armour/gunnery difference

2. Confirmation that Yamato has three shielded 25mm types, not just two

So kudos to WG for saying that there are indeed three shielded variants when they explained remodelling the ship.

Ah, and Sirene might like this one

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

They covered the diesel machinery originially intended for Yamato

[somber knoll]

When Weegee actually does the right thing once

[spring briar]

less pronounced but ok

[eternal veldt]

Spee got pictured too

[alpine onyx]

I saw some specs for Diesels

but

hit me

HIT ME!

[eternal veldt]

Let me try to read it first

It's in Japanese, and I can't decode some stuff

[spring briar]

diesel yammy

wat

[somber knoll]

any info on what diesel that they planned to use? as in the manufacturer

[alpine onyx]

They initially wanted some Diesel in their life

But it was kinda difficult for them to immediately jump to motors with the required output

[eternal veldt]

They put the diesel on the big whale and it didn't perform too good.

[alpine onyx]

had a few Diesel ships

Mizuho as well

[eternal veldt]

big whale as in Taigei

[alpine onyx]

[eternal veldt]

Nisshin was diesel powered as well, Pretz will never forgive me if I don't mention her

Just checking

[spring briar]

speaking of sub tenders

[eternal veldt]

Deutschland's total HP is 54000 HP, yes?

[alpine onyx]

ye

[eternal veldt]

Okay, so I read that correctly

Basically, mixed diesel propulsion if I am reading correctly

[somber knoll]

so, ala the Konigsbergs? interesting

guess they hadn't confidently developed their diesel just yet.

[alpine onyx]

I think it was more like Leipzig and co

[somber knoll]

and here I thought Mitsubishi and Isuzu make good diesels

[alpine onyx]

two Diesel shafts, two steam shafts

[eternal veldt]

A-140A: 132000HP, Diesel is 68000, 30 knots, 18 knots over 9200 nautical miles, trial displacement 68000 tons.

A-140F5: 135000HP, 75000HP steam + 60000HP diesel, trial displacement of 65200tons, 27 knots, 18 knots over 7200 nautical miles

[somber knoll]

Their propulsion system consisted of four steam turbines and a pair of 10-cylinder four-stroke diesel engines.

Hm, guess the Konigsberg diesels weren't used for propulsion?

[eternal veldt]

How was Deutschland's diesel arranged?

[alpine onyx]

They were

[eternal veldt]

4 diesel turbines, 1 shaft?

[alpine onyx]

but it was a Diesel or Steam arrangement

This is Deutschland's arrangement

Every shaft gets two motor and one gearbox room

[eternal veldt]

Ok, if I am reading correctly, each shaft gets 1 gearbox room and 4 motors on A-140A.

[alpine onyx]

In contrast the two aftmost machinery rooms on Karlsruhe, left is only cruising diesels, right is cruising turbines, one turbine and one diesel per shaft

To use one, you must de-couple the other

[eternal veldt]

ah fuck it, let me get it online to double check

[alpine onyx]

Also gimme motor specs

How much madness did the IJN hope to squeeze out of a motor?

[somber knoll]

THE NUMBERS MASON WHAT IS IT I figure it was the size of the rooms in meters?

[spring briar]

comes back from dinner
diesel talk

https://tenor.com/view/he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-19335672

[alpine onyx]

Should be numbers for the damage control tables

[eternal veldt]

Not specified, sadly.

[somber knoll]

Now Imagine Bisko, Yammie, and Veneto with Diesels.

worse Diesel Richie

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

Diesel Bismarck

[eternal veldt]

But I believe it is correct that it was 4 motors to one shaft.

[alpine onyx]

With that fuel capacity

[eternal veldt]

Which makes us at....16 motors?

[spring briar]

sirene
what's the internal volume of bismarck's fuel tanks

[somber knoll]

they were V12 too if I recall?

[spring briar]

or what is the total volume of fuel oil she used

both work for me

since I can use one to calc the other

[somber knoll]

cause Konig had V10 (or is it I10?)

[eternal veldt]

oh for fuck's sake, I'm a moron

[alpine onyx]

Without fuel reserve space (which isn't considered in the blueprint) it's 6951 cbm

fuel oil only

[eternal veldt]

The numbers are all here, third column to the right

[alpine onyx]

so 5908 tons of Diesel going iwth their numbers

[spring briar]

doesn't seem that high

[eternal veldt]

yes, 68k + 132k = 200k HP

[maiden citrus]

diesel Oklahoma

[alpine onyx]

but the diary gives more

way more

[eternal veldt]

I'll check the other book

[alpine onyx]

8294 cbm including reserves

[spring briar]

what's this cbm unit

[alpine onyx]

cubic meter

[spring briar]

my brother in christ just m³

[somber knoll]

2 sets X 4 x 9 cylinder MAN motor

so that means

[alpine onyx]

my keyboard doesn't have smol three

so it'd be m^3

[spring briar]

weird

[alpine onyx]

which doesn't look as elegant

[maiden citrus]

3 but smol

[spring briar]

gives maka a hotdog

[eternal veldt]

Nothing from the other book, sadly 😔

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

aw yis

[spring briar]

did you know arizona was written as arrizona in the 1860's

[maiden citrus]

hm, I didn't actually

[eternal veldt]

here, the extract

sorry sirene, book won't hold by itself

[alpine onyx]

Google Lens!

[eternal veldt]

did that already, and I'm certain there is no mention of the motor specs

[dapper parcel]

Huh, I don't think there were diesel-only proposal?

Most of the config were more or less like this

[eternal veldt]

No. All mixed.

[spring briar]

After the collapse of Continental currency, Congress appointed Robert Morris to be Superintendent of Finance of the United States. Morris advocated the creation of the first financial institution chartered by the United States, the Bank of North America, in 1782. The bank was funded in part by bullion coins loaned to the United States by France.[57]

friend

[maiden citrus]

[improve relations with iris]

[spring briar]

I see I have to further my naval history knowledge by making schematics of french machinery layouts

[eternal veldt]

And which ship is this for?

And might as well share this

Basic requirements of Yamato was 30 knots+, at least 8 18" guns, invuln zone against 18" shells from 20k-30k yards, full speed for 80 hours, 18 knots for 20,000 nautical miles, basic displacement of 65k tons

Another odd-ball are the CBs, at least 8 254mm guns, speed of 36 knots + (?), protection against 8" and 10" shells around 15k yards, from what it looks like.

[dapper parcel]

I'm wondering what's going on with A-140-B2
I don't think it ever actually talked about in details

Well, not in a peer reviewed articles that is

[maiden citrus]

well yamato got one of those requirements

[eternal veldt]

Looks like B2 was going full out on diesel, so my bad, not all of them are mixed machinery

full-diesel propulsion for 140k HP, 62k tons, 27.5 knots, 18 knots for 9200 nautical miles

[dapper parcel]

It would be Yanmar

Or at least the firm that would become part of yanmar postwar

[eternal veldt]

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/艦本式ディーゼル

Kampon.

[eternal veldt]

More reading, Taigei was selected to be the platform for trying the diesels intended for BBs

[dapper parcel]

Yep, Kanmoto #13 Mod. 6

[eternal veldt]

The Type 11 model 10 was capable up to 8500hp, it seems

but the navy committee ran tests with 4800hp over 144 hours, and various motor tests to test wear and tear

verdict: unreliable, significant machinery tear

[spring briar]

tear or wear

[dapper parcel]

Excessive lubrication leak, excessive piston ring damage, excessive exhaust smoke (which I damn certain all were connected)

The main discretion point against using diesel on battleship actually was that #13 motors have no service record at all and the similar #11 motor had severe reliability concern in service

[eternal veldt]

That's it, I think.

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

[dapper parcel]

It's actually interesting that double acting crosshead engine was so popular in early low speed marine diesel

I wonder if it was carryover from steam engine design

[somber knoll]

Kampon Mark 25 Model 2

[somber knoll]

I was thinking that they thought they might make the same horsepower as the steam ones but idk.

and crossflow designs weren't in the vogue until after post war afaik.

[dapper parcel]

crosshead, not crossflow

you have to use crosshead if you want the piston to be double acting

[somber knoll]

lemme go online and check

[manic latch]

Visited Kotor in Montenegro today

Got a nice naval museum there

[spiral cedar]

Is it mostly age of sail?

[manic latch]

Sadly yes

There are some stuff tho

touched alot

[manic latch]

This girl

Now I want her in AL

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

She got 40mm too

[spring briar]

[spiral cedar]

Eiffel Tower AA battery

[frigid karma]

all you need to do is put some nude models at the very top behind some armored glass, the planes will naturally come over to take a look, and crash into the glass. problem solved

[strong plank]

Can confirm

[tepid mulch]

You can now scream at the thought of a universe with rectangular Tomcats

[desert agate]

oh hey ive been there

[zealous vine]

Were there any recorded issues on the Yamato-class' main artillery, and their performance?

(If it wasn't already torched by the end of the war)

[manic latch]

I really assume they burned those things. Since I never heard any problems

[spiral cedar]

They were generally quite satisfactory, having acceptable barrel life, rate of fire, and armor penetration, as well as tight dispersion characteristics. They were let down by the substandard shell design, and suffered from excessive blast and expensive relining (it was calculated to be more economical to simply order new guns than to rebarrel existing, worn ones), but overall they met Japan’s requirements

[alpine onyx]

The turrets relied heavily on crew drill during operation, more so than contemporary systems, with there being a recorded case of someone getting torn in half by the hoist when he made an error

[desert agate]

i bet he felt that in the morning

[eternal veldt]

Half of him was beaten and berated by the IJN officers in the morning /s

just part of navy/army training.

[zealous vine]

Were Japanese shells generally like that? (or at least, the battleship ones)

And weren't the blast impact issues mostly mitigated like the AA mounts enclosed, and just being further away?

[eternal veldt]

Accounts suggest that the crew were ordered to get to shelter within the superstructures/below decks and to get the Le Prieur sights off the unshielded 25mm guns prior to doing so, otherwise they'd get damaged.

[alpine onyx]

Japanese AP shells in general had some very questionable features, though the issues in particular can vary

[junior trench]

the strongest filler possible*

*which needs so much cushioning you end up with the lowest TNTe for cavity size of anyone's AP

[spring briar]

for their size, the 460's are pretty inefficient

they also gave it a sharp point under the AP cap but then decided to make it an obtuse angle which kinda negates the benefit of such a sharp tip

and it has a boat tail without rebated rim so the shell is already less accurate out of the barrel

[zealous vine]

Thanks peeps

[fierce sparrow]

What the actual hell is that?

[tepid mulch]

Rectangular variable geometry wing concept

You want to see a Cold War with square winged jet fighters?

[maiden citrus]

it's cool

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

[ivory ridge]

what are you doubting

[spring briar]

that you've had a hug today

[ivory ridge]

you're correct, i didnt

[spring briar]

how about now

[ivory ridge]

[spiral cedar]

Wait wrong hug

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

[desert agate]

Harder

I mean

Uh

I found a funny hat

Like months ago but im posting it now

[spiral cedar]

for (int i = 0; i < 60; i++) {
  cout << "mommy I mean ";
}

[desert agate]

[spring briar]

ayo that's a kepi

[desert agate]

Yeah

I found it in Normandy

[spring briar]

I love it

[desert agate]

Was gonna buy it but I couldn't get it home safely

[humble mulch]

cant wear it on the plane?

[manic latch]

Golden rule. The more details you learn about Yamato class, more dissapointing they will become

burning their documents also helped their prestige alot still

[spiral cedar]

Pretty much all Japanese APC above 6" used the same design, with some slight tweaks and modifications

[spring briar]

well
above 8" I'd say just to be sure

6.1 to 8" only have that stumpy cap

[spiral cedar]

True, fair enough

[spring briar]

Sodak and dunk frend

[spiral cedar]

Hood

[alpine onyx]

Scharnhorst left out

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Where is Soyuz

[spring briar]

mf's

where is Nagato

[ivory ridge]

Colorado?

[spiral cedar]

PoW instead of KGV
Rodnol instead of Nelsol

Probably started as a Denmark Strait comparison and expanded from there

[alpine onyx]

Nelsol in general

[spring briar]

be KGV class
be smol
no real benefit to being smol

WET

[alpine onyx]

half your TDS is auxiliary machinery

[manic latch]

Tomorrow I will survive this Macedonian inferior WiFi by going to hotel in it's Capital Skopje. Which in theory have superior wifi

Pls send it

[manic latch]

Budget

[spring briar]

be MN

get ridiculed for pre dreads
become forgotten due to HSF expansion
WW1.exe mediterranean meme moments
no normandie/lyons
build dunkeks and richies
dies BUT DOESNT
Jeanne D'arc circumnavigates globe 5 times

be VMF

friends with Germany, Italy
Kirovs.exe
??
Class A battleship

nuclear cruisers time

[ivory ridge]

Kirovs 2 electric boogaloo.ex

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

be RN

get ridiculed for pre dreads which was copied from French
become joke for Tsushima
WW1 and revolution ruins your shipbuilding experience, engineers, industry.
no Izmail sisters or 406mm BBs
Gets Italian Navy as fren
Tries to build 4 Soyuz 2 Kron 7 Chapayevs at same time with light cruiser construction experience
Uses obsolete ships against Germans
Wins the war and gains German engineers and documents in shipbuilding
Becomes the largest second navy of world

[spring briar]

wat

[ivory ridge]

largest second navy

[manic latch]

Who was larger than Soviet Navy in 1960s and after except US

[ivory ridge]

you mean second largest

not largest second

[spring briar]

be USN

??
monitor
??
congress shenanigans
SIMS GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


5"/38 time
WW2
???
forehead cruisers
plastic

[manic latch]

Macedonian wifi prevents me sticking details much since it keeps disconnecting

Here we go again. Time to wait for 2 min for this message

[manic latch]

Do Japan

[humble mulch]

lmao

[spring briar]

be IJN

❤️

❤️

.exe
🤏 German colonies
SEA/dutch east indies
🇺🇸

[frigid karma]

where mahan

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

mahandsome

I think I could make better memes about gun development

[ivory ridge]

i thought the second one was them being anti lgbt

[spring briar]

Yes

That would make sense

[spiral cedar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/1008504082593480724/Screenshot_20220814-173449.jpg

Guess the ship

[exotic scarab]

I hate the internet

[spring briar]

What’s wrong?

[exotic scarab]

do you not see the furry

[spring briar]

Oh

OH

[exotic scarab]

im just trying to you know

look for uniforms of the austrian army during the 1800s

[spiral cedar]

Well, is the furry's hat at least correct

[exotic scarab]

turns out its a corsican hat

which given who they spent most the time fighting is pretty ironic

[spring briar]

Got a hint?

[spiral cedar]

No

Okay, one hint

2 × 28 cm (11 in) guns

Another hint

The day before this ship was to be launched, another ship was lost with all hands in a storm because its captain was trying to make this ship's launching ceremony

No

[spring briar]

Wait hang on

Is it a coastal defence bb

[spiral cedar]

No

[spring briar]

No clue

[spiral cedar]

I'll give another hint

Armored cruiser, but her navy considered her a first class battleship

[spring briar]

Is it spanish

[spiral cedar]

🇪🇸

Indeed

[spring briar]

Aha

In that case

Carlos V

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

French turrets

[spiral cedar]

German armor

[spring briar]

That deck armor

[spiral cedar]

Only over the slopes, sadly

Armour, mm belt: 50, battery: 50, deck: 50 with 165mm slopes, CT: 300, barbettes: 250, hoods: 100

Per Navypedia

[spring briar]

Still quite cool

[spiral cedar]

Ye

12000 mile cruising range on coal

[spring briar]

Proto deutschland

I checked Pelayo first

But didn’t consider the acrs

Very cool

[spiral cedar]

Interestingly, though a speed of 20 knots is usually listed, the Spanish American war centennial site lists her top speed as 16

[spring briar]

Slow

[desert agate]

https://www.europeanairshows.co.uk/news/hawker-hurricane-crashes-at-aviation-day-in-cheb

be RAN
buy big fleet
become surprised when big fleet is sent far away
mutinies.exe
scrap big fleet
try building fleet
7 years to build a light cruiser
buy fleet instead
fleet goes to Europe again
fleet comes back to deal with Japan
suffering
build/buy another fleet
Bathurst spam
war ends
clean up the Japanese mess for the British
aircraft carrier time

[exotic scarab]

https://www.amazon.com/NAPOLEONIC-UNIFORMS-Volumes-Boxed-Set/dp/1932033750

someone explain this

why is a history book $800

with other sites listing it for around a few hundred

[humble mulch]

amazon moment

its a large book thats been brought back into print, is hard cover i assume, and a box set

[exotic scarab]

still

[humble mulch]

so with that its reasonable to have a high price

$800 is fucking high

[exotic scarab]

yeah others have both going for around $220 average

[humble mulch]

but with they shit if people want it, they will pay for that

[exotic scarab]

how does $100 a book make sense

[humble mulch]

idk marketing

Ive seen some insane prices for napoleonic shit

[shrewd pecan]

Limited issue limited production books

[exotic scarab]

yeah for now i'll stick with like osprey

[shrewd pecan]

Or out of production books

[exotic scarab]

they have a much more reasonable 10-20 per book

[shrewd pecan]

That or speciality books that are expensive to research for

[exotic scarab]

why does the napeonic era have to be so niche

those uniforms are a lot more fire then this camo nonsense

[hushed saffron]

bote.

[shrewd pecan]

If I remember correctly janes books and the military balance can go for like hundreds of dollars

[exotic scarab]

yeah i'll stick to osprey and the other cheaper books

they even have one on 98 ireland

[tough quail]

friend

[shrewd pecan]

tho something I’ve noted at least with the military balance back when I did stupid nation RPs

They’re relatively easy to pirate or get archived copies of

[eternal veldt]

Warship 2006 was listed in the thousands if I recall...

And then you have Malcolm Wright's garbage

[shrewd pecan]

depending where you live you can likely ask your library about it assuming it’s one with actual budget

Warship 2006 sounds like where it’s necessary to pirate man

[eternal veldt]

75 dollars for inaccurate, secondary/tertiary/quaternary research

👍

[shrewd pecan]

wonder if the internet archive has any of the military/foreign policy books

[eternal veldt]

There is a US cruiser book that soared into the 800s as I recall, though it wasnt particularly good

Not Norman Friedman's, something like Squadron Signals

[shrewd pecan]

suppose that’s the issue with limited run books

idk I haven’t really dived into many beyond the military balance and a bit of janes

[eternal veldt]

Garzke's Axis and Neutral Battleships is another good example

[rapid junco]

[eternal veldt]

@humble mulch https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1472840267?ref=em_1p_1_ti&ref_=pe_3821020_658163010

Will update you if I get my hands on a copy.

[undone remnant]

also does anyone have pictures

of that one britsh anti air mount

that looks like

hmm

pancakes

[eternal veldt]

The QF 4.5"?

[undone remnant]

i believe

[undone remnant]

oh found what i was looking for

[eternal veldt]

Yea, same mounts. The ones you have are on the Implacables.

[undone remnant]

but this time they're flat with the flight deck

funky

[eternal veldt]

That's precisely the point, so that it doesn't interfere with flight ops.

anything that a plane can crash into is a hazard.

[dapper parcel]

The mount was named "BD" for a reason

[junior trench]

I'm here to cause you pain by reminding you that the Valentine based Archer SPG entered service in Oct'44

[zealous vine]

What was the order of ammunition quality of each navy?

[spring briar]

Armando dias

[rapid junco]

You got way too far

It's the successor of the Marcílio Dias class

I was hoping someone would come with a JoJo joke

[spring briar]

Shit

Mb

[rapid junco]

Have you ever seen this aircraft here, Riche?

It's a Borel
Morane-Borel

[manic latch]

H-6 with 6 CJ-20 cruise missile

[rapid junco]

I do know that outgunned is appropriate
But outclassed seems a bit odd for it

[spring briar]

Classic tf3 gang

[rapid junco]

I dunno if i'm understood the meaning of the word "Outclassed" wrong
But for me it sounds like using obsolete equipment
And for the shps of TF3
It wasn't
It was 3 Fletcher class DDs plus 4 John C Butler class DEs (including JCB herself)

[undone remnant]

Sobs in chōkai

[frigid karma]

forever doomed to have idiots claim carrier secondaries killed her

[strong plank]

Went through some of my grandfather’s stuff with my dad, figured you guys might appreciate this

one of the first print editions of Guadalcanal Diary, when it was published during the war

also got to page through his flight logs from ‘44-‘46

[maiden citrus]

neat

[tender monolith]

very

[desert agate]

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/the-australian-designed-car-built-to-steamroll-the-establishment/

Here's something cool

An economically viable steam powered car

[tough quail]

rad

[exotic scarab]

didnt they have the maker of several steam and water powered cars killed

[manic latch]

They would ruin the oil industry

[desert agate]

this specific steam-powered car ran on fuel oil

or really any combustible fluid

[exotic scarab]

but yeah didnt they kill someone that made a viable waterpowered car before he could bring it to market

[dapper parcel]

That's quite an accusation you make

[tough quail]

its a very common story

[exotic scarab]

i mean

its much easier now to supress information

[manic latch]

Stanley Meyer

[maiden citrus]

hm? it's harder now than it's ever been

[exotic scarab]

not really

its quite easy to use the internet to drive someone insane

[manic latch]

[maiden citrus]

it's also easy as heck pre internet to just make something up and no one had a sharing of communal knowledge so that was that

[exotic scarab]

ever hear of MKultra

just heard of it

[maiden citrus]

most easily demonstrated by boomers reading the newspaper and thinking that's the entire world

[exotic scarab]

and I doubt the CIA and other groups would just you know

[somber knoll]

well, for me it works both ways

[exotic scarab]

stop expirementing on citzens unkowningly after getting away with it for so long

[somber knoll]

just compare the Times pre 70s and current incarnation

[exotic scarab]

yeah and well

its pretty easy now to just mess with someones search results and pose as a random internet person

[maiden citrus]

it's simply too easy to share and access information now to make a lot of this stuff viable

[desert agate]

Please can we not have conspiracy theories

[exotic scarab]

i mean yeah this is getting into modern poltics

[manic latch]

While I personally just need ice cold beer and Soyuz in a bikini to stay happy 🍺

[desert agate]

beer

🚮

[manic latch]

[maiden citrus]

whiskey supremacy

[desert agate]

Cider my beloved

[exotic scarab]

are you really

making a soviet joke and not using vodka

[desert agate]

Ah yes comrade all Russians obsessed with vodka no other alcohol exists in Eastern Europe

[manic latch]

But this wasn't a joke

[exotic scarab]

lol then proabbly not

[dapper parcel]

You know what, this is simple electrolysis
And what's "constant" about electrolysis? The power you get from "burning" the hydrogen will always be lower than what you spend on dissociating them
So you either have to carry huge batteries that's better spend directly on the electric motor in the first place, or do hydrolysis on industrial level that's much more energy efficient than electrolysis

"Water energy" always been this kind of hogwash rehashed...

[exotic scarab]

soyuz wont get a swimsuit skin

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

Now you sound like an oil baron

[desert agate]

damn

That's harsh

[alpine onyx]

Soyuz who?

[manic latch]

[maiden citrus]

tidal energy electrolysis my beloved, the one stop shop

[dapper parcel]

I mean, you can do the experiment yourself

[manic latch]

But to be serious. It would be a good investment

I guess electricity will take it

[desert agate]

KAL1 my beloved

What could have been

[hushed saffron]

why does it look like a bullpupped and mutated M16

[strong plank]

looks like a FAMAS that identifies as an M16A1

[desert agate]

It's a heavily modified FAL

Or as known in Australian service as the L1A1 SLR

[hushed saffron]

Ah

the M14 obsoleter.

[tough quail]

you trick the vietnamese into thinking its a dinky m16 only to split them in half with the bullpup 7.62

[desert agate]

It was designed from Australian experiences in Vietnam which was not entirely satisfied with either the SLR or the M16, due to various reasons

The designer had actually never even heard the term bullpup he just decided that putting the trigger mechanism in front of the magazine was the only way to actually achieve what he was trying to do

the rifle itself is not a modified FAL in its entirety, it simply uses FAL components because they were easily accessible to the designer, it is in most ways an entirely unique design, which is superior to the FAL in many ways, especially in what the ADF required in jungle warfare, field stripping into only 3 major components, easily used by left or right handed shooters and is incredibly similar to the Austeyer E/F88 used by the ADF today, in some ways even being superior to the Steyer, being designed 14 years before it entered service

the designer fully intended for the rifle to be used in a different calibre to what it was designed in as well, but as he didn't have funding or components he could only use SLR components and in spite of interest from the ADF, political opposition meant he was unable to develop the design after the second prototype

https://kevinloughrey.com.au/ProjPast/GP_Inf_Rifle/GPIR.html

the designer discusses the development process here

[spring briar]

Me and the boys on our way to break the speed record

[junior trench]

this reads like the usual "please believe me, this prototype would have totally changed the world, I promise" cope

[desert agate]

Tbqh I never claimed that and nor did the designer he just says that his design was advanced for the time and has some advantages over both legacy and current platforms

He also recognises the failings in his design that led to it failing the overall selection process

But of course the resistance of the Army's entrenched bureaucracy is what ultimately led to the designs failure
The KAL1 faced many of the same issues that the Owen did against the Army, but without the financial backing to influence policy makers into seriously considering the rifle

The KAL1 was very much a modern Owen in more ways than it's origin as effectively a backyard project

[spring briar]

EM-2

[desert agate]

With some funding and backing from defence the KAL could have been worked into a far more developed design, the design was promising and it performed quite well, and the inherent drawbacks of an early prototype weapon could have been fixed

[ivory ridge]

Smh one of the CRs did over 43 at full load

[spring briar]

[ivory ridge]

Big boned "destroyer" frens

[spring briar]

Literally this

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Still cant break Terrible's record, checkmate

[spring briar]

[remote monolith]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/638074758084165632/1009014676933312592/unknown.png

[ivory ridge]

At least they can actually somewhat use that speed in combat unlike her

[eternal veldt]

Massive superstructure Mogami isn't real, it cannot hurt you:

Also, holy fuck. Never realised the counties had their HA magazines jammed right between the Engine and boiler rooms (second from bottom)

and only 4 watertight bulkheads too, good lord...

[ivory ridge]

Chonk

[spring briar]

floating battery noises

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb0xh2BGut4

[tribal mortar]

It's a fact that many D-Day veterans left the cinema because it triggered so much of PTSD in them

[manic latch]

https://twitter.com/WarThunder/status/1559583513556426756?t=vXhNmt3uYIeND1FA3bRC9A&s=19

War Thunder (@WarThunder)

The USS Alaska will be the first battlecruiser to join the US forces in the next War Thunder major update! Nine 305mm guns shooting 517 kg shells 😶
👉 https://t.co/Or9SzNKzlh

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 16, 2022, 4:50 PM

LETS GOOOOOO

Gawd model is so detailed

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

https://i.imgur.com/RSGEuNB.png

damn giving a cruiser battleship firepower

it's so unique almost every major navy did it before them

[strong plank]

Think it means unique in the context of American designs

Since it was the only large cruiser class the US developed

https://mobile.twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1559539920833748998

H I Sutton (@CovertShores)

Russian aircraft carrier concept Koktebel (Коктебель)

Displacement 80,000 tons
Length 350 m
Beam 90 m
Draft 15 m
Deck height 35 m

From https://t.co/WrgJhhwv8D

Likes

134

Twitter · Aug 16, 2022, 1:57 PM

Good lord

[tough quail]

ah yes the melee build carrier

[tough quail]

shank bow shank bow

[strong plank]

A cv deck with multiple lanes

It’s like Hit’s worst nightmare

[tender monolith]

i wonder how many accidents that will cause

[tough quail]

what if we

jaywalked on the russian highway carrier???

[strong plank]

where are the elevators meant to be?

[tough quail]

one of the islands is a decoy

it folds over and the elevator is there

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Naaaaaah I still prefer the Lamantin design

Still got the cope slope but at least you have experience of it

This baby is fucking beautiful tho

[spiral cedar]

https://twitter.com/Slylockdown1/status/1559586008538259459

Slylockdown (@Slylockdown1)

@WarThunder Tbh though I’d prefer a south Dakota class

Twitter · Aug 16, 2022, 5:00 PM

[manic latch]

Got the special propulsion that British concept submarine design also had once

[tender monolith]

[manic latch]

Slightly shorter than Belgorod but still sexy

[spiral cedar]

Who knows, maybe that's better than putting it adjacent to the main magazine and causing a sympathetic detonation

[manic latch]

[spiral cedar]

Funky stern

[manic latch]

I would love to touch it. And likely for stealth or the propulsion design

[spiral cedar]

Yeh

[manic latch]

While America and British is going for X rudder

[spiral cedar]

Wonder how it'd look in a water tank test

[manic latch]

Sadly this is just a model. But I really hope this girl comes to reality one day

Damn sexy and very stealthy look

That 80.000 ton carrier is an abomination however.
It's just better to keep 45-50k ton design as replacement to Kuz. Or no replacement at all, giving money to this beautiful submarine class instead

[tough quail]

speaking of funny russian subs my girlfriend was playing this funny cold waters mod where russia diddles chinese subs and

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/169946730173825024/1008464132418322432/20220814214526_1.jpg

Oh No

[manic latch]

Ara ara

Hope Chinese know about Crazy Ivan

[tough quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/169946730173825024/1008464133911498772/20220814214807_1.jpg

he doesn't know

he doesn't know

[shrewd pecan]

ah yes another project they will never complete

[junior trench]

cringe

[manic latch]

Oi some people said same thing about Belgorod

[shrewd pecan]

the thing that took 30 years to build

[manic latch]

But it was done in the end.

[shrewd pecan]

yeah the special OSCAR-II

[manic latch]

Oscar stands for more patting

[tough quail]

can y'all take your pissing match elsewhere

nobody is interested

[manic latch]

They are jealous it's more sexy than Columbia class

[tough quail]

absolutely nobody

lmfao

[shrewd pecan]

he likes them big

[manic latch]

Tfw no Typhoon gf to cuddle everyday and play Red October role-play at night

I'm jealous of you Horse

[shrewd pecan]

ok calling a lady a typhoon is a insult

[manic latch]

Yeah Nato names suck

Should call her Akula

[shrewd pecan]

no

that's like

mega obesity big

[strong plank]

red October role play

“You’ve lost another one?”

[junior trench]

what kind of Russo fetishism have we uncovered this time

[spiral cedar]

Call your gf a boomer

[manic latch]

She will hide under bed

[shrewd pecan]

whatever disconnected me mid war thunder match and crew locked my entire American line up

[spiral cedar]

Best and worst NATO names for non-NATO equipment, 1 each

Go

[tough quail]

NATO names are bad when they still use russian names and it gets really fucking confusing

[humble mulch]

[tough quail]

otherwise they're either dope or really funny

[manic latch]

Fagot for Mig-15

[spiral cedar]

For best or worst

[tough quail]

yes

[manic latch]

Worst

[strong plank]

both

[manic latch]

I GOT A FAGOT INBOUND

[humble mulch]

[shrewd pecan]

personally I always liked the NATO reporting names for Russian subs

[tough quail]

it also falls under a weird name overlap

given the ruskies use it for an ATGM name

[shrewd pecan]

don't really get why they used exclusively Chinese names for the Chinese ones

[manic latch]

Tfw calls Akula as Typhoon
Calls Shchuka-B as Akula

[tough quail]

oh fuck that bmp launched an entire mig-15

[shrewd pecan]

ever pronounced BMP as BMP instead of B.M.P

[tough quail]

no which is weird because i do that with UMP

[spiral cedar]

The Imperial Japan school of guided missile design

[tough quail]

lmfao

[spiral cedar]

[manic latch]

Why NATO didn't named big ships of Soviets

Like Kirov is still Kirov. Kuz is kuz

[spiral cedar]

Because the Navy can actually memorize names

[manic latch]

But why NATO names for subs

[tough quail]

because i dunno

submarine racism

[shrewd pecan]

ok OSCAR

[strong plank]

I’d assume it’s like

with ships they’re easier to ID and there’s not tons upon tons of em like with aircraft or land vehicles

[shrewd pecan]

"The Yasen class, Russian designations Project 885 Yasen and Project 885M Yasen-M (Russian: Ясень, lit. 'ash tree', NATO reporting name: Severodvinsk)"

they could of just used Yasen man

[manic latch]

Project 661 Anchar= Papa class

[tough quail]

iirc in that case they're just using one of the individual sub names

[fading blaze]

guess they finally adding Alaska to WT huh

[tough quail]

which is

weird

maybe they just dont want people in NATO making dumb night battle jokes

[manic latch]

Kinda shame NATO cannot put "praising" names some reason

Like Beauty

[tough quail]

i kind of remember one just boiling down to "this thing is cool" but i dont remember

i mean naming su-57s "felon" is sick as fuck

[manic latch]

It was proposed for Tu-22 as I remember. Beauty. But then they make it Blinder

[manic latch]

Yak 38 Forger

Yak 141 Freestyle

[manic latch]

Was damn perfect for her VTOL ability too

[shrewd pecan]

never really liked the YAK-141 compared to her planned successors

[tough quail]

i was always a fan of foxhound too

feels fitting for a nuke interceptor

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-43

[shrewd pecan]

I mean as a tech demonstrator she was pretty good

as a serviceable aircraft her armament was lackluster

she had what

only 4 missile pylons?

I get that may of increased if she was ever put into service

but as a naval interceptor that is dreadfully small especially against her proposed competition

[manic latch]

Maybe this was going to fix it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-201

[shrewd pecan]

again only 4 pylons

[tough quail]

just add on another pair of wings

[shrewd pecan]

second thing I dislike regarding the YAK-141 is the usual cope regarding its role in the F-35Bs development (this isn't really anything about the aircraft its just it gets tied into it sadly)

[desert agate]

They don't use names that praise the designs because they are the NATO reporting names and its bad for morale when your troops are going up against the "devastator" or whatever shit you want when in reality it's just another Soviet shitbox but the troops give it the "Tiger effect" and are scared out of their minds by it

[tough quail]

thanks spon

[spring briar]

what is this chat

[shrewd pecan]

hell

[manic latch]

Give them Bad names so troops will underestimate it

[desert agate]

They give them neutral but easy to recognise names

[strong plank]

I mean nato names gives it some level of uniformity, which I can respect

[desert agate]

Afaik the old policy was 2 syllables to keep them short but understandable

[tough quail]

they named the su-57 felon to get the police to double as anti-air crews

pro strats

[manic latch]

Tu-160

Russia: White Swan

Nato: BLACKJACK

[desert agate]

Fulcrum is just a neutral word, as is foxbat for example

[strong plank]

Yeah wasn’t it B for bombers

[tough quail]

flanker's a pretty good one for a fighter

[strong plank]

Hence stuff like Backfire

[desert agate]

Felon isn't the NATO reporting name in fact it's an incredibly rare example of the Russians naming their own aircraft

And for some reason NATO has just kinda gone with it even though it doesn't actually fit the NATO reporting name scheme

[tough quail]

huh

the more you know

also yeah backfire sounds rad

[manic latch]

"NATO's has adopted the reporting name "Felon" for Russia's 5th generation jet fighter Sukhoi Su-57, Scramble Magazine announced on Thursday. The alliance earlier used a temporary working name of "Frazor" to describe the aircraft, created by the Russian firm PAK-FA."

Frazor huh

[tough quail]

name one funky

[strong plank]

75 would need a nato name tho right

assuming it ever leaves the factory floor

[desert agate]

Wait I might be getting confused with the other one

[manic latch]

When Nato names something. Prototype?

[desert agate]

Yeah I was

Sorry my b I meant the 75

It's 2am

[strong plank]

damn

[desert agate]

The Russians named the 75 the Checkmate that's not its NATO reporting name

[manic latch]

Yeah it needs to be F

[desert agate]

Honestly I can't see Russian 5th gen projects really progressing at all given Russian reliance on Western computing and components in their hardware

[manic latch]

Do China use West stuff for J-20 and 35?

[desert agate]

Recent events have evidently proven that the cold war computer gap never went away and the sanctions are driving that fact home hard

China has spent the better part of 2 decades trying to wean itself of Western processors

They're still behind but not as much as they were 5 years ago

[junior trench]

they don't have much to show for the effort

They're still like a decade behind in chip circuit density minimum

[desert agate]

Afaik they've just hit 11nm processors albeit that's not yet ready for commercial adoption

[junior trench]

And they've burnt their bridges for importing high quality chips

[desert agate]

But even so, the fact that they have any processor manufacturing capacity at all makes them leagues above the Russians

[manic latch]

Biggest mistake of Soviet Union begin with start failing at Gen 3 computers

Not giving enough attention

[shrewd pecan]

they attempted to copy American computers

and fell behind while doing so

[junior trench]

The basic mechanics of high power computing were incompatible with Marxist thought

[manic latch]

The System 360 was it

[junior trench]

Which is amusing

[desert agate]

The Russians lost the computer race in the 60s and the Soviets basically stopped trying to compete by the 70s, and then when the USSR collapsed and Russia joined the globalised economy it wasn't seen as necessary to develop the domestic industry

[junior trench]

And the advanced parts of computing were thrown out as bourgeoisie science decades prior

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

It would take billions of dollars and decades of investment for the Russians to get to 20 years ago chip tech

[manic latch]

Landing to Venus to this

[spring briar]

the venera probes were glorified cameras

ngl

[desert agate]

The Russians were only interested in computing tech as far as it helped their military application, which meant that their overall development stunted and meant the Soviets were never able to revolutionise their industrial output through computers creating increased efficiency, and the fact that all research was controlled by the central government meant that private investment couldn't pick up the slack of the government sector

[junior trench]

Doesn't help that whole routes were closed off ideologically

"randomness doesn't exist"

[desert agate]

Compare this to the US where computing is first and foremost developed in the private sector before that technology is then brought into the military

[spring briar]

belgium helped in modern chip development

[manic latch]

How did China survive despite being communist

[shrewd pecan]

it opened up

[junior trench]

By not

[shrewd pecan]

and developed

[desert agate]

Because China stopped being communist in the 80s lmao

[junior trench]

Oh no

We're gonna get bonked

[shrewd pecan]

USSR stagnated since it refused to open up and it ran out of people to put into high productivity industries

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

I'll bonk you Cleve

[strong plank]

Yeah that’s the other part. The US didn’t go at it alone

[spring briar]

[junior trench]

[desert agate]

Dengism revolutionised China's economy and allowed them to have a private sector that existed and could do things

[spring briar]

yeah that's like
wow
humanity progresses through cooperation and strife

what a revelation

[desert agate]

Deng Xioping unironically revolutionised all bases of the Chinese economy, the Russians, even after the collapse, never really changed

Yes everything had a capitalist flair to it

[junior trench]

The Soviet Union tried to deny that relativistic physics existed until they couldn't ignore it anymore for the sake of nukes

[desert agate]

But everyone worth a damn knew that was a lie the moment the oligarchs snapped up all sectors of the Russian economy

[manic latch]

Boris

[desert agate]

China experienced an economic revolution, Russia/the USSR did not

As much as Gorbachev tried

[manic latch]

Gorby

[shrewd pecan]

I mean regardless Russia will likely have the ability to develop world class systems

issue will mainly fall down to actually get them passed development

[manic latch]

We will fix you girl

One day

[shrewd pecan]

probably not

[manic latch]

[shrewd pecan]

like, the areas Russia did invest heavily into

Air Defense systems and guided missile systems will likely remain world class even if the Russians can't properly utilize said platforms themselves

tho its likely its other sectors will continue to slip

the RUAF at this point exists as a marketing arm of Sukhoi

[dapper parcel]

Almaz-Antey

[shrewd pecan]

Russian Army gave up its chance to leap after focusing on legacy platforms and over investment in the mechanized airborne units it can't even properly utilize

and the navy is uhhhhh

-insert image of burning Kuznetsov-

[dapper parcel]

Sevmash is still salvageable, ig

[shrewd pecan]

I mean despite my earlier statements odds are their frigates and corvettes still have a export market

and their submarines will likely be one of the few areas getting attention

[junior trench]

Counterpoint

Naval SAMs exist

But people aren't desperate enough to put them on trucks

[shrewd pecan]

I still don't get why they don't just smack ERAM onto a patriot launcher already

[junior trench]

Don't worry

Land based SM-6 is coming

Nominally for very long range surface to surface

[shrewd pecan]

like patriot battery with a missile that can engage ballistic targets, aircraft, land targets and ships

[junior trench]

But the system is compatible with the air defense net

[shrewd pecan]

isn't the Armies land based tomahawk system getting SM-6

[junior trench]

That is what I just brought up

Yes

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

surprised they aren't just putting it on patriot

[junior trench]

SM-6 is too large for that

[shrewd pecan]

suppose

yeah about 4 feet longer than PAC-2

[dapper parcel]

Where's THAAD fits in BMD system again

[shrewd pecan]

👁️ tho on THAAD

[junior trench]

Terminal against MRBMs

Patriot is terminal against SRBMs

[dapper parcel]

The parallel development is hella confusing, and those "layered capabilities" chart that often circulated doesn't make sense

[junior trench]

SM-6 is terminal period

And SM-3 is ICBM midcourse

[shrewd pecan]

surprised they aren't just making a MML equivalent for the larger air defense missiles

[junior trench]

That's called SM-6

[shrewd pecan]

no like

single launch system that can fire the full range of air defense missiles

since MML can fling everything from iron dome missiles to hellfires

[dapper parcel]

That kinda defeat the layering tho, since the optimal launch site for each system is different

[junior trench]

MML is a common launcher in name

[dapper parcel]

Orbital mechanic is non-intuitive

[junior trench]

The cells get kind of fucky

[shrewd pecan]

I mean even the most recent NASAMs

can fling AIM-9s and ESSMs

doesn't seem like something that wouldn't be out of possibility for the Patriot missiles and some of the naval missiles of similar capability

[dapper parcel]

At best you get common bus and telemetry, which at that point you're just reinventing VLS?

[shrewd pecan]

especially if it grants more growing room for larger air defense missile

[junior trench]

Patriot is extremely different in capability from every other missile you want to combine it with

As is THAAD

[shrewd pecan]

idk just seems more optimal to have a common launcher canister system, basically yeah VLS as Ard said

[manic latch]

Submarines are also more effective against satellite tracking aren't they. While surface ships can be tracked much easier

[shrewd pecan]

tho I suppose commonality issues would exist yeah

[junior trench]

It doesn't work for either of them

[junior trench]

So Typhon

[shrewd pecan]

also I get why THAAD wouldn't be put under that umbrella in terms of capability

[junior trench]

Because terminal intercept varies wildly depending on what you're trying to intercept, with PAC-3 and THAAD doing different things for a reason

[shrewd pecan]

yeah

[dapper parcel]

Not exactly, say hi to thermal plume

[shrewd pecan]

suppose Patriot already has the wide range of missile mounting options

with david sling being one of the more recent additions (at least for export)

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

Do US plan to replace Patriots

Or just keep it as variants

[shrewd pecan]

I mean there's MEADs but that still uses patriot family missiles

was it MEAD

crap what was that program called again

ok it is MEADS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_Extended_Air_Defense_System

[manic latch]

"Medium"

Isn't that worse

[shrewd pecan]

its using PAC-3 and IRST

[manic latch]

If it's medium. What's the large

[shrewd pecan]

the US Airforce

arguably the job of air defense is moving towards intercepting oncoming cruise missiles, drones and ballistic missiles primarily than actual aircraft

[manic latch]

Explains why Pat gets less attention than air to air missiles

[shrewd pecan]

its preferable in my opinion to have more interceptors total than a longer range missile even if its nice to have

like earlier SM-6 as I said SM-6 would be a nice capability

and its good its coming into Army service with the ground based VLS

since you still do want that longer reach if you can have it

[manic latch]

Do US use enemy's potential capabilities as designing a counter weapon or to their own?

[shrewd pecan]

idk that answer has a bunch of potential answers depending on the program

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

Florida stronger than truck

[shrewd pecan]

that's why I'm going to sink Florida into the sea

[spring briar]

[shrewd pecan]

also I'm curious

did anything ever come of that shot off the US had between Caesar and a bunch of other trucked based SPGs

[spring briar]

Caesar is really good

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

[spring briar]

I spoke too soon

[shrewd pecan]

for phasing out standard 777s in most units with something that can shoot and scoot

I'd take a Americanized Caesar

[spring briar]

which means?

[shrewd pecan]

probably mounting Caesar on a FMTV and replacing the gun with a 777

hopefully that one 52 caliber 777

[spring briar]

what's the difference between a 52 caliber 777 and a 52 caliber on a normal caesar?
availablility for the US?

[shrewd pecan]

America has the spare parts for the 777

[dapper parcel]

I don't think they're moving from mainly heliborne artillery anytime soon
shoot-and-scoot role is taken by mlrs

[spring briar]

yeah seemed the most likely reason for me lol

[shrewd pecan]

and odds are standard 777s are staying with the nat guard, 10th mountain and airborne