Hell I will post Khrushchev's quote
#history
manic latch
"I recall the first days when the conflict between the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia began artificially
to be blown up. Once, when I carne from Kiev to Moscow, I was invited to visit Stalin who, pointing
to the copy of a letter lately sent to Tito, asked me, "Have you read this?"
Not waiting for my reply he answered, "I will shake my little finger and there will be no more Tito.
He will fall.". . .
But this did not happen to Tito. No matter how much or how little Stalin shook, not only his little
finger but everything else that he could shake, Tito did not fall. Why? The reason was that, in this
case of disagreement with the Yugoslav comrades, Tito had behind him a state and a people who
had gone through a severe school of fighting for liberty and independence, a people which gave
support to its leaders.
You see to what Stalin's mania for greatness led. He had completely lost consciousness of reality"
fucking people flying Ustache flags here for some fucking reason
manic latch
Remember what tito said when Stalin kept sending assassins
“Stop sending people to kill me. We've already captured five of them, one of them with a bomb and another with a rifle… If you don't stop sending killers, I'll send one to Moscow, and I won't have to send another.”
manic latch
Based
We need Yugoslav destroyer Ljubljana as Tito personality based shipgirl while Stalingrad cruiser as Stalin personality based
exotic scarab
The Balkan coast belongs to Austria-Hungary
exotic scarab
Don't make me post the full name
spring briar
Romanian riverine navy time
humble mulch
Aye Romania had ironclads
I have photos now I think
10 October 1941. SMR Regele Carol I sinking.
SMR Regele Carol I
exotic scarab
humble mulch
The NMS Mihail Kogalniceanu monitor on the Danube
The NMS Dacia mine-laying ship in mission
Two Romanian torpedo-boats and a German submarine at Constanta
The 102 mm Bofors gun on the NMS Delfinul submarine
Real Romanian Navy Hours
Guys look at this little thing
CB-Class Submarine
manic latch
@desert agate Do it 
spring briar
chilly osprey
It's all fun and games until the pocket submarine ganks one of your full sized boats
spring briar
cheeky Italian meme
spring briar
mg-34?
exotic scarab
Yeah
With a bunch of ww2 stuff
Gas mask
Lol hat is basically the same as when I was in bmt just different patern
fierce sparrow
manic latch
Why CIWS have STANDBY mode? It seems both Uss Stark and Israeli INS Hanit had their Phalanx CIWS in STANDBY mode during the times of attack. Which prevented CIW working
spiral cedar
Because you don't want to shoot civilians, for example
tough quail
presumably civilian aircraft
manic latch
Ah
tough quail
so you don't do some especially spicy fucky wuckies
manic latch
Tho I doubt a civilian will fly that close to ciw range. Radar should make him friendly by then no?
humble mulch
I don’t think it’s like ace combat where they read iff tags
If it’s moving towards it it’s gonna assume it’s a threat
manic latch
I don’t think it’s like ace combat where they read iff tags
If it’s moving towa...
That was one of the things that fucked Uss Stark actually
AWACS spotted the Iranian Mirage
Tagged it as Friendly however
But still warned the Stark about its path
Stark then asked Mirage to identify itself but got no response
Then Mirage turned away. Since it already launched its 2 Exocet missiles. But radars didn't pick it up
manic latch
Nah Crew's big balls saved the ship
They managed to control fire and flooding
Captain was found guilty of course. Got lot of mistakes
manic latch
Captain was found guilty of course. Got lot of mistakes
Uss Stark's defenses against anti ship missiles were
Mk 13 mod 4 GMLS with magazine of 40 SM-1
Phalanx MK15 mod 0
Mk75 mod 0 OTO 76mm
Mk 36 SRBOC decoy system
AN/SPS-49 (V) 4 air search radar
Mk 92 Mod 2 Fire control system, STIR gun, missile fire control radar
manic latch
Uss Stark's defenses against anti ship missiles were
Mk 13 mod 4 GMLS with maga...
But as I said. Phalanx was at STANDBY so it didn't work.
Mk36 decoys weren't armed or ready to use
And the plane attacked from blind spots for both CIWS and STIR that prevented use of SM-1 missile system. And Captain didn't do any maneuvers to avoid both missiles or removing blindspots
As for the SPN-49 Radar. It was activated only 6 minutes before attack and didn't really give tracking attention to aircraft until the attack
manic latch
As for the SPN-49 Radar. It was activated only 6 minutes before attack and didn'...
But i will blame this to AWACS plane who tagged the Mirage as friendly
strong plank
Gas mask
Oh shit that reminds me
I went to the local gun show last weekend and some dude was selling AT-3 Saggers
I hope they were just training rounds
spiral cedar
@spring briar Do you know what sort of cap the French 138 mm SAP had
spring briar
the one used on the Fantasques?
spiral cedar
Yeh
spring briar
can't say for certain but likely similar to the 152
spiral cedar
What’s that one like
spring briar
the cap ofc misses its tip in that drawing
but we aren't sure what it looked like so
smth like this might be close enough
this being the mle1924 sap
the art is to derive the AP cap shape from the exterior view of the shell
spiral cedar
SAP tho? 
spring briar
harder
but possible
if you can see two seams you already know there's something there
I'll give you a heads up if I find an actual cross section
expect smth like this but with a large cavity
spiral cedar
mk
spiral cedar
Teeny
spring briar
but I checked the weights and scaling it up to 138.6 gives me still a 3.5 kg weigh difference (real 138.6 is 3.5 kg heavier than upscaled 130)
and given the 138.6's hoists etc are based on the 152's it seems logical that the shells are too
also wdym teeny
spiral cedar
The cap
spring briar
overstatement
there is none
this is basically USN special common but with a dye cap
spiral cedar
What's grundring
spring briar
base ring
spiral cedar
That makes sense
spring briar
just a structure to screw the dye cap onto
and soldered in place with hard solder
spiral cedar
spring briar
spring briar
don't think they did that
but I might look for the report
After Jutland, a new type of shell (known as Greenboy) was developed. As lyddite-filled old projectiles were proven to be too sensitive against thick armour, thus it became crucial to develop a new type of explosive inert enough for armour-piercing purposes. Besides the inertness of the explosive, the discoveries of insufficient fragment penetration of Lyddite-filled projectile aforementioned were also taken considered. The newly developed type of explosive, “Shellite” was a mixture of picric acid and DNP (dinitrophenol), and the naming of the explosive was based upon the mixture ratio. For example, Shellite 60/40 means 60% of picric acid plus 40% of DNP.
I christen these tests
"the copium tests"
spiral cedar
That makes more sense
spiral cedar
Insufficient fragment penetration because the fragments were too small or too slow?
spring briar
Insufficient fragment penetration because the fragments were too small or too sl...
Left: CPC filled with black powder
Right: CPC filled with lyddite
so it seems to be creating fragments that are too small
tough quail
neato
spiral cedar
Right says APC not CPC
spring briar
spiral cedar
Wonder what the frag pen target was
spring briar
ok but you get the point
even with a smaller filler compared to the CPC, the lyddite creates smaller fragments
spiral cedar
Yeh, as it should
spiral cedar
Wonder what the frag pen target was <:Thinkpitz:754192058163527732>
Must have been multi layered as that's where large fragment penetration shows superiority
spiral cedar
Big ass chunks
spiral cedar
Left: CPC filled with black powder
Right: CPC filled with lyddite
so it seems to...
Is it just me, or does the black powder CPC shell have a bias towards longer, oblong pieces?
spring briar
Must have been multi layered as that's where large fragment penetration shows su...
all under water
spiral cedar
underwater drag forces will be nasty on small, fast fragments, tru
spring briar
yep
they also serve to create a good resistance against larger fragments at very high speed
maybe that's why the APC had so few larger fragments as well
faster explosive -> more pressure -> more shattering of larger fragments due to larger surface area and asymmetric force application
the USN APC did well since it seems the walls of the shells were thicker
spiral cedar
I'm thinking the longer duration of the BP filler meant a more gradual pressure peak than HE yeh
spring briar
which corresponds to the more chonky USN AP
spiral cedar
Lesser shock effect and thus larger chunks
spring briar
indeed
look at the russian 12" apc
quite a long, thin walled shell
like CPC
but CPC had a much lower explosive pressure behind it
so more shearing of larger chunks
aight
but now I really gtg
spiral cedar
spiral cedar
I wonder what instances of underwater shell fragment damage in WWII there are..
There's Yamato on White Plains I guess
spring briar
some superficial splinter damage from water hammer and fragments on Sodak from Kirishima
ivory ridge
somber knoll
.45-70-loaded Contenders lesgo
spring briar
Load your contender with .30-06
manic latch
Didn't they fight the ussr
Yes
somber knoll
Load your contender with .30-06
No barrel options sadly
unless you go custom or DIY
somber knoll
17 HMR to .45 Long Colt for the pistols.
spring briar
dapper parcel
Contender with +P load 
somber knoll
iirc you can fit in a 6.8 Remington barrel
dapper parcel
Just get a Thor at this point
somber knoll
yesh
dapper parcel
Still laugh at how funky that gun looks
somber knoll
or just get an XR-100
dapper parcel
Wouldn't XR-100 count as rifle tho
spring briar
XP-100
somber knoll
idk, but if you're in the Contender train, then nup (and yes, this image is of XP-100, but it still stands).
strong plank
You know what, fuck you
bolt action’s your AR
ivory ridge
warthunder be like: "Hit"
spring briar
spring briar
Ye
manic latch
Germans: Parry this casual
rapid junco
Congratulations, History 
So basically they put the Picture of the protected Cruiser Tamandaré instead of the merchant ship
Although that's the least mistake
spring briar
rapid junco
Compared to the tons of people on that comment section repeating the conspiracy theory
Those made me sick actually 
spiral cedar
south forge
@frigid karma I am still waiting for French Pistols of World War 1.
tough quail
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684721152739770371/1001564152231366878/IM...
im genuinely impressed by this one
who...who do they think they fought
ivory ridge
Greece and eastern europe? idk
somber knoll
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684721152739770371/1001564152231366878/IM...
They didn't even fight one of the big 3 allies.
Battle of Cape Matapan: So I started blasting
ivory ridge
These people dont even know a naval war happened anyway
it's always only about ground battles
chilly osprey
This falls into the 'On 19 December 1941, absolutely nothing happened'
frigid karma
<@371178042707410954> I am still waiting for French Pistols of World War 1.
aside from the two mentioned in the vid, we also have the 1873 revolver, and the star model 1914, as well as 1911s for their tank crews
france didn't have a particularly advanced pistol industry in wwi and had to import a lot of their handguns over
desert agate
who...who do they think they fought
dapper parcel
grammar plz
I still can't understand English when used in that particular situation
Like, if you're doing n-th recursive negatives, the actual meaning is either doesn't matter or doesn't even correlate with the logical meaning
spring briar
spiral cedar
Is that you
gilded girder
spring briar
Is that you
no
spring briar
this is me
spring briar
spring briar
eternal veldt
<:NotLikeAtago:666111458504998933>
Ngl, looks a bit like AAVE. The double negation is a hallmark of that.
zealous vine
ayo what-
Oh boy, I sure do love the cracking sound of 15 inch shells passing by and skin-peeling blast impact blowing off my face every 30 seconds
eternal veldt
They're likely removable.
spring briar
Oh boy, I sure do love the cracking sound of 15 inch shells passing by and skin-...
I'm sure people will sit on them during combat
yeap
alpine onyx
Like 95% of the time the guns won't fire, and you can just sit on them with no issue
Combat or firing practices occupied very little time compared to times where you could sit on the deck
spring briar
imagine having the luxury of sitting on a nice bench on a long journey
especially on smth like a La Gal
alpine onyx
I'll prefer sitting on the aft deck of a Deutschland and using the torpedo tube as a sunroof
alpine onyx
spring briar
the guy in the back looks enthusiastic
also nice to see the two offset tubes in the centre
alpine onyx
Guy in front is just chilling
spring briar
atleast he's away from the heinous shit his compatriots were doing on the mainland
and I won't be the first to say that reading helps you keep your sanity
just got a book from a friend
lists Richelieu as 41000 ton standard
mk
spring briar
chilly osprey
Sounds like they're either using normal displacement as designed, or else they're using standard displacement after her refit in the US.
Though I thought she was still closer to 40,000 tons standard rather than 41,000 tons at that point?
spring briar
it's the post refit std dsplmt
eternal veldt
stop eating bofors.
spring briar
Ah yes
Gneisenau’s 360mm turret roof (that is actually 150mm thick with the turret face being 360)
More faulty experiments for wehrbs to use as sources
spiral cedar
spiral cedar
Why not, do you think
ivory ridge
ivory ridge
spring briar
oh dear lord
ivory ridge
Scharns the pocket battleships
spiral cedar
Something tells me this person is about to do it
spring briar
spiral cedar
tender monolith
armchair admirals are always hilarious
spiral cedar
5 km plunging fire
spiral cedar
Yes
Different navies used AP or APC designations
Doesn’t matter
Just nomenclature
Like the US using HC instead of HE
First comment is…
tough quail
5 km plunging fire
would still get through probably
spring briar
this video has already done more damage than I expected
spiral cedar
Something something lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes
tender monolith
what the fuck
strong plank
Holy shit that cannot be real
dusty kraken
Germany performed well at the start of the war thanks to their ballistas on tracks
frigid karma
5 km plunging fire
Space Yamato
Just shoot straight down onto the deck at altitude of 5km
tough quail
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407952230709461024/1001887616540606604/un...
wh
WHAT
???????????
frigid karma
WHAT
Remember when Christopher Columbus landed in the Americas and the locals fucking double tapped him with a spas-12
spring briar
frigid karma
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/812659131550007297/953928448789852201/c...
Richy are you on light mode
spring briar
frigid karma
https://tenor.com/view/holy-laughter-doom-laugh-zoom-gif-17636231
The Vikings left Newfoundland after they found their helmets could not, in fact, block the domestically produced .50 cal rounds by the natives
spring briar
Made a small rifled slug, earbud for scale
tender monolith
v small
spring briar
.600 caliber slug
for when that elephant is wearing level III body armor
what are you pondering about jaba
spiral cedar
Its stability
spring briar
it's very short so it needs a pretty low angular velocity
dapper parcel
Too short and it might jam in barrel 
spring briar
and is pretty much only effective at short range
yep
it was more of an experiment to see how accurate I could do rifling grooves
so now it's a spinny top
I should show my collection of weird metal thingies I made to hone my machine tooling
ivory ridge
Remember when Christopher Columbus landed in the Americas and the locals fucking...
ironic because the spas is italian
frigid karma
ironic because the spas is italian
Yes that’s why I chose it
ivory ridge
humble mulch
Every time I look at It the cockpit nose proportions just bother the shit out of me
Naa delta wings are cool
I just don't like how the front looks
Like looking straight at it
Also has the round part in the boxes
manic latch
Also has the round part in the boxes
Ohhh I see. That's not her fault but the design forcing it
humble mulch
manic latch
<:Omegalilwoo:588629705062875136>
I'm sorry Tea. When you see it you won't be able to unsee it.
But F-35 also has them
humble mulch
Yes but it's not as noticeable as the homelanders bulge from the boys
It just strikes me as absolutely over the top and goofy even tho there is a reason
Cockpit also feels really small
manic latch
Cockpit also feels really small
Well plane is 20.3? meters
F35 is 15.6 meters
So that 5 meter difference show ye
I think they copied the F-22 cockpit for stealth
So they didn't try to go for longer cockpit for looks
But twin seat version may look sexier for you then
humble mulch
spiral cedar
🍄
spring briar
visibly, at subsonic velocities, a boat tail helps as well
so
logically
we should put boat tails on everything
damn cost and logistics
let's put a RBT on the 16" SHS
bruh
"french 380 mm HE shell"
- is actually a german 380mm HE shell
rapid junco
Sherman sent a Strong hug
Is Sherman an anfibious vehicle as well?
German tank
manic latch
manic latch
https://news.usni.org/2022/07/26/navys-force-design-2045-plans-for-373-ship-flee...
12 Columbia-class ballistic missile nuclear submarines
12 Aircraft carriers
66 Submarines split between fast attack and large diameter payload boats
96 Large surface combatants like the Arleigh Burke class destroyer and the emerging DDG(X) next-generation destroyer
56 Constellation-class guided-missile frigates
31 Large amphibious ships
18 Light amphibious warships to support to Marine Littoral Regiments
82 Combat logistics ships and auxiliaries
150 large surface and subsurface unmanned vessels that will act as sensors and as auxiliary magazines to the manned fleet
manic latch
12 Columbia-class ballistic missile nuclear submarines
12 Aircraft carriers
66...
0 Zumwalt
ivory ridge
night heart
hi
frigid karma
night heart
manic latch
Zumwalt is included in the Large surface combatant numbers you goof
Not even mentioned ripbozo
manic latch
maiden citrus
zumwalt is ddx type
manic latch
zumwalt is ddx type
Nope
strong plank
no
manic latch
DDX is the new one
strong plank
DDG-1000
maiden citrus
so yeah I'd assume they're in the ddg/x numbers
strong plank
is zumwalt
maiden citrus
Nope
The class design emerged from the DD-21 "land attack destroyer" program as "DD(X)" and was intended to take the role of battleships in meeting a congressional mandate for naval fire support.
manic latch
```The class design emerged from the DD-21 "land attack destroyer" program as "D...
Zumwalt is the old DDx let's say
manic latch
god 12 Fords is gonna be absolutely glorious
It may not be all Fords
10 Ford is planned
2 is either youngest Nimitzes or
Light carriers
That US mentioned once
manic latch
```The class design emerged from the DD-21 "land attack destroyer" program as "D...
Here. The real DDX
strong plank
yeah the light carrier concept is a big question mark
Esper called for em at some point iirc
but there's no design work being done
manic latch
Yeah this is 2045 plan. Long way to go still
strong plank
only specs I've heard are that they'd be conventionally powered and use emals
but thats all theoretical
wonder what the subsequent fords will be named
strong plank
since Enterprise and Miller have certainly shaken up the usual convention
maiden citrus
escape, bronco, mustang, expedition, etc
strong plank
USS Dick Best when
manic latch
Mustang 
manic latch
escape, bronco, mustang, expedition, etc
Dunno man Uss Escape wouldn't sound scary to me
maiden citrus
focus, escort, fiesta
strong plank
tfw the light carriers would be about the same size as everyone else's normal carriers
manic latch
Like even US/Nato have certain name respect for Soviet planes.
Tu-22 example, first proposed name was Bullshot, but it sounded like bullshit so it was a no. Other proposed name was Beauty. But it praised the plane so that was a no as well. Final decision was Blinder
manic latch
Felon
manic latch
B for bombers
Tu-4: Bull
Tu-95: Bear
Tu-160: Blackjack
maiden citrus
there are no large guns on warships, they tend to have one or two 5'' at best
manic latch
I mean. Navies are reducing the largest guns on ships for a while.
It used to be 406mm. Fall to 203mm fall to 152mm fall to 127mm
manic latch
I mean. Navies are reducing the largest guns on ships for a while.
It used to be...
Then Zumwalt tried 155mm then got oofed
maiden citrus
it'll always be useful to have a decent all arounder that is less extreme than launching a missile
manic latch
I'm wondering what 3rd world countries have anything to do with guns on Warships
Most pirates came from those nations attacking transport ships. Using guns against against boats is cheap and effective
rapid junco
The answer to it is even more bs for me
rapid junco
Most pirates came from those nations attacking transport ships. Using guns again...
I don't really think they said with that meaning
manic latch
Yeah...
rapid junco
Speaking of guns
The MB already bought 4 76mm OTO Melara guns for its new frigates
Already said that to Undie
And i think he was glad to hear it
ivory ridge
tfw the light carriers would be about the same size as everyone else's normal ca...
Literally just the current LHDs
like i dont get the big deal they are trying to make out of yes/no CVLs
you're already running CVLs
tough quail
marketing language
strong plank
Literally just the current LHDs
No unde like
The navy counts em separately
CVLs would be separate from LHDs/LHAs
ivory ridge
i mean sure
but functionally theyve been literally using some LHAs as CVLs
like the deployement of whoever it was in the baltics
loaded with only f-35s
strong plank
“While we anticipate that additional study will be required to assess the proper high/low mix of carriers, eight to 11 nuclear-powered carriers will be necessary to execute a high-end conflict and maintain our global presence, with up to six light carriers joining them,” Esper said in his remarks.
Ah, think I found a better source
Filling said LHDs and LHAs have a boxier design than aircraft carriers due to them having to also ballast down to launch and recover surface connectors in the water. That box shape keeps them from achieving the higher speeds that make a Ford- or Nimitz-class carrier more survivable, he said.
Still, Filling said, “I will say that our current LHD class for most nations is their primary carrier, and so our team has done a lot with the integration of the Joint Strike Fighter that make our current LHDs very capable. I think the limitations are acknowledged, though, that certainly vertical launch aircraft have limitations on range and payload, and that’s why this in-between study was asked for, to see if we could, for Distributed Maritime Operations, provide more carrier attack points than we have currently.”
frigid karma
Most pirates came from those nations attacking transport ships. Using guns again...
Why would you need a 155 for it
A 30mm gun on each side will handle it
manic latch
Why would you need a 155 for it
From what I remember. Modern 152-155mm is the golden desire of navies. But it's way too complex or expensive.
I'm not sure why. Either it's range, damage advantage or something else
Of course they are not for against pirates but land targets or ships
But yeah the concept is dead. Those guns will be replaced with much more useful missiles
tough quail
a gun is pretty much never going to go away by virtue of cost effectiveness
especially if any actual conflict starts up and you start expending missiles
strong plank
Not to mention storage capacity
manic latch
a gun is pretty much never going to go away by virtue of cost effectiveness
It's interesting topic on planes too
J-20 for example. Has no guns
But latest F planes and Su-57 does
I guess J-20 will rely solely on long range sniping with missiles
Will always avoid dogfights as best she can
She also has PL-15 missile. Which has 200km range air to air
frigid karma
Different topic of discussion entirely
Guns on ships can be used to easily bombard static positions
manic latch
Guns on ships can be used to easily bombard static positions
Guns will stay also because cheaper targets yes
frigid karma
You can strafe folks with a gun on a plane, sure, but like
manic latch
You won't shoot Harpoon to a small boat
unborn wyvern
it's also pronounced "Fah-Go"
the MiG and the 9K111 are named after the instrument not the slur
manic latch
Yes slur is 2 G
About the 2 G slur version. It's immediate origin is unclear, but it is based on the word for "bundle of sticks," ultimately derived, via Old French, Italian and Vulgar Latin, from Latin fascis.
It somehow evolved into a slur overtime
unborn wyvern
language is weird, nobody really knows where the Fuck word came form
unborn wyvern
language is also very interesting. it's changed so much over the years that we have people who are dedicated to study what what words mean what
frigid karma
Fuck originally meant “to hit”
Fuck and miss
shrewd pecan
You won't shoot Harpoon to a small boat
I mean you do
manic latch
I mean you do
But why
shrewd pecan
historically it’s been primarily used against missile boats and gun boats
it’s most recent target was a tug boat (we can’t go into depth about that one here)
shrewd pecan
generally put militaries don’t care about cost while in combat
regarding crap like RHIBs
It’s still common practice to expend a hellfire or other similar laser guided missile
manic latch
shrewd pecan
like if a military is in a combat situation it’s going to use the munitions it has unless it absolutely has to reserve them
tough quail
historically it’s been primarily used against missile boats and gun boats
thats because naval combat literally doesn't exist though
because if it does it's decently likely the world will end with it
shrewd pecan
we’ve had intense naval combat against both Libya and Iraq that saw the mass employment of harpoons against Soviet made missile boats
tough quail
yeah and in the case of actual warfare you're going to likely actually preserve your big guns
irl atm they're sitting around collecting dust
so why not
frigid karma
If you’re getting raided by Somali pirates and you have a perfectly good .50 cal on deck just use that
Or, for shits and giggles, set the ciws to active
shrewd pecan
We just had a entire two decade conflict where common practice was to dump a 400k missile on 1-2 man sized targets at a sustained rate
I don’t see why that trend wouldn’t continue especially in the naval department in a peer v peer conflict
especially when one of the main tools against smaller boat attacks is the Seahawk fleet
tough quail
there's an enormous difference between a protracted peer vs peer war and a two decade long shooting gallery that was so overkill and low intensity that most military development boiled down to marketing gimmicks and production for the sake of job creation
tough quail
we’ve had intense naval combat against both Libya and Iraq that saw the mass emp...
also lawd please do not call that intense naval combat
it's about as intense as going 10mph over the speed limit
shrewd pecan
there's an enormous difference between a protracted peer vs peer war and a two d...
In a peer to peer you have the full industrial might of the largest economies known to man going against each other
tough quail
missiles don't appear out of thin air into the middle of the pacific
shrewd pecan
especially on the US side you have the ability to maintain missile especially with rationing civilian silicon production
tough quail
even if you ignore production cost the sheer lack of storage and annoyance of rearming is going to play into it
manic latch
missiles don't appear out of thin air into the middle of the pacific
It's also forbidden to reload missiles through supply ships because how dangerous it is now right. So ship has to return to port to load its missiles again
shrewd pecan
like sure early on there’s likely gonna be shortages as prewar stocks deplete but once war time production ramps up I doubt the US is gonna have issue maintaining a missile supply
tough quail
this is approaching the same sort of logic as saying a soldier should use his M4 to shoot apart some foliage in his way instead of using a knife because, well, fuck it, the US is drowning in bullets anyway
ammo conservation is one of the most basic concepts out there
shrewd pecan
horse
If your a USN ship engaging small boats
Why wouldn’t you use your Seahawks hellfires
especially when odds are said small boats likely also have some type of missile system
tough quail
werent we talking about full ass harpoons
shrewd pecan
I was referring to missile boats and gun boats
tough quail
im talking about honest to god AShMs
shrewd pecan
since there’s the historical cases of harpoons being used against ships that are only a few hundred tons
manic latch
Shooting RPG to single infantry 
shrewd pecan
like the Nanuchka
I’d use a harpoon against
This is what I was calling a small boat
manic latch
Yeah against missile boats it makes sense
Since that thing can hurt you alot
But non missile boats
cinder escarp
You may try to harpoon the nanu, but the nanu has a CIWS
shrewd pecan
yeah that historically hasn’t worked for it
cinder escarp
Not an amazing CIWS, but it actually has one unlike any small western boat of its age
tough quail
yeah its packing fucking malakhits that one's valid
cinder escarp
We didn't start strapping Phalanxes on until like 15 years after those sailed out with AK-230s
shrewd pecan
I doubt gun CIWS is really gonna stop any modern ASHM most of the time at this point
manic latch
Hypersonic ones especially. Since they weren't designed for those speeds
tough quail
dinky phalanxes no
cinder escarp
It's replacement, the far more terrifying Tarantul, ups the ante with a 76mm capable of defensive fire and two AK-630
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantul-class_corvette
manic latch
It's replacement, the far more terrifying Tarantul, ups the ante with a 76mm cap...
Tarantul
cinder escarp
It also swaps out the ancient Termits for P-270s
tough quail
They have the NATO reporting name Tarantul (not to be confused with the Stenka-class patrol boat, whose official Soviet name is also Project 205P Tarantul).
goddammit stop doing this NATO
if you're going to make goofy reporting names dont use the same damn language
akula was bad enough
cinder escarp
There's also the one-off Tarantul IV which swaps the twin AK-630s (one on each side) for a rear mounted Kashtan
shrewd pecan
have we even had one successful combat intercept of a ASHM with gun CIWS
manic latch
I wonder why US didn't do similar Kashtan type CIW. Like combining Phalanx with Sea Ram as single module
shrewd pecan
I wonder why US didn't do similar Kashtan type CIW. Like combining Phalanx with ...
Honestly it’s wasteful
manic latch
chilly osprey
Why waste time with the gun when you have a missile system there?
shrewd pecan
since again gun CIWS is increasingly growing more and more ineffective
chilly osprey
gun-based CIWS in the 20-30mm range has always been bad at its job
manic latch
since again gun CIWS is increasingly growing more and more ineffective
Queen Elizabeth
0 missile
3 Ciw
manic latch
gun-based CIWS in the 20-30mm range has always been bad at its job
True I guess
cinder escarp
<a:booba:807407845703155712>
There is no good photos of RKA-71 with it mounted
but art based on the grainy photos has been made
manic latch
Gowd can't wait for her in War Thunder
tough quail
its so cute
shrewd pecan
I mean phalanx has had plenty of successes in the CRAM role
manic latch
https://imgur.com/zBkH0b5
Well it did saved the ship from Hull hit I guess
shrewd pecan
I’m just referring to any success of using any gun CIWS in combat intercepts
cinder escarp
There were actually multiple cases in the persian gulf where Phalanx would have worked (it was on target) had the RAMs or SM-2s not hit the missile first.
In fact, it was part of the reason we decided to put the Phalanxes back on after taking them off
That said, Phalanx won't work against anything supersonic or hypersonic
It just doesn't have the range
shrewd pecan
I mean it’s better to have them then not have them
I just don’t see the point in super Russian style gun CIWS when missile get the job done arguably better
tough quail
just try something with actual punch like italy
cinder escarp
But against something like Termit phalanx works well in testing, and in practice would have scored a few shootdowns had the missiles not nabbed them first
manic latch
I mean it’s better to have them then not have them
Do NATO allies share the secrets of anti ship missiles between each other? Since one of most success against hurting NATO ships were done by French Exocet missiles
cinder escarp
I mean, yesn't
The harpoon club shares info
the exocet club shares info
the losers in the corner with Otomat share info
But the clubs don't really talk to each other
tough quail
I just don’t see the point in super Russian style gun CIWS when missile get the ...
presumably the same reason every other ship runs AAMs and gun CWIS at the same time
they're just uh
on the same mount
manic latch
the exocet club shares info
shrewd pecan
presumably the same reason every other ship runs AAMs and gun CWIS at the same t...
I mean in that case just bring more missiles and have a smaller CIWS system
cinder escarp
Honestly, if you want a gun CIWS go 30mm or bigger. 20mm offers only a narrow engagement window against subsonic missiles, and is basically hopeless on anything faster.
tough quail
you're gonna have to ask the majority of navies in the world about that one
chilly osprey
I mean, it all depends on how much you're trying to invest into the CIWS, but the whole point of CIWS is that it doesn't have a huge extra footprint on the ship. It's there to save you from leakers, but any serious effort to improve the defense of the ship should be going elsewhere, to your main layers of defense.
cinder escarp
There are the Oerlikon 35mm systems which are really cool as they aren't gatlings, you have the dumb Italian 40mms, and you have the GAU-8 derivatives (Goalkeeper and the PLA's CIWS setups)
tough quail
also yeah it helps the funny ultra tunguskies are firing rounds that hit like a particularly stiff breeze rather than just a light tickling
chilly osprey
Ex, the reason Phalanx remains so popular is because of how limited the footprint is
manic latch
Gigantic APS system for ships 
shrewd pecan
like I get it the moment you need a good CIWS once a missile bypasses every other later of defense my argument becomes dumb but considering how it’s gone historically it just seems gun CIWS isn’t the best investment to double down on
tough quail
and frankly redundancy in case the missile fails to intercept is just never a bad thing
cinder escarp
tough quail
you never put all your eggs in one basket if you can help it
cinder escarp
Fujian's 1130s have even been fitted with an AESA
tough quail
based
manic latch
Weird they removed it now.
cinder escarp
(The 1130 being a GAU-8 with 11 instead of 7 barrels, for a 10,000 rpm cyclic rate.)
shrewd pecan
GAU-8 phalanx
tough quail
that's a goalkeeper
cinder escarp
It is pretty much the final word in gun CIWS, unless you want to count the Chinese 20 barrel system they are working on
cinder escarp
that's a goalkeeper
~~the chinese in no way copied goalkeeper as the basis for the type 730 which evolved into 1130, no siree 😮💨 ~~
shrewd pecan
wonder if you could make the new 50 MM bushmaster work with the phalanxes radar
tough quail
~~the chinese in no way copied goalkeeper as the basis for the type 730 which ev...
copying is fine and dandy as long as you're copying something as based as goalkeepers in my book
cinder escarp
The original 730 is as close to a straight goalkeeper clone as you can imagine
They've since added on extra sensors, revamped the gun...
manic latch
Kashtan
shrewd pecan
still hate the way that system looks
tough quail
dutch wank represent
cinder escarp
Reminder they have a type 2030 in development that actually fires twice per rotation (at top dead center and bottom dead center)
Cyclic rate of 20 barrels firing twice per revolution? yes
tough quail
lmfao
manic latch
Reminder they have a type 2030 in development that actually fires twice per rota...
China is underrated I tell you
They literally develop a new weapon every month
tough quail
honestly at that point those guys are just fucking around to see how ridiculous they can make it
shrewd pecan
I mean China isn’t really underrated
cinder escarp
Also Kashtan/Kortik is being phased out for Naval Pantsir
shrewd pecan
Main issue is they just rarely share anything spec wise
manic latch
Also Kashtan/Kortik is being phased out for Naval Pantsir
Difference was other than new system etc. That Kashtan had no missiles while Pantsir does right
tough quail
i love you water tunguskies
manic latch
i love you water tunguskies
tough quail
should've just stuck more gasts on tho
manic latch
Main issue is they just rarely share anything spec wise
That makes it even more sexier. The mystery behind it 
shrewd pecan
sounds like a good way to get a STD
manic latch
Fear the unknown
shrewd pecan
The pure amount of Chinese systems that exist but are hard as shit to find anything on their capabilities
manic latch
Hell most of their "reveals" are non offical photographs too
shrewd pecan
I probably need to pick up or download some used Janes books at some point
tough quail
hey kremlin i forget are you actually russian
manic latch
hey kremlin i forget are you actually russian
Nobody knows really
When you don't know someone's nationality. You cannot blame his choices as national bias
So I keep that
tough quail
🧠
i need to track down an actual russian to get the fsb to sell me an rsh12
i want to break my wrist but in a niche and fancy way
manic latch
i need to track down an actual russian to get the fsb to sell me an rsh12
Ask Cinbri if it helps
shrewd pecan
eh they’ll probably show up on the black market soon
tough quail
i desire my wrists to cease existing
shrewd pecan
o god that thing
manic latch
eh they’ll probably show up on the black market soon
Javelin were like 60k$. But how do you know if it's legit or scam. Since that's odly low price.
tough quail
i guess it helps theres a fucking bajillion of them
manic latch
That as well true
shrewd pecan
Javelin wise
idk I can see several areas where those things can get leaked out of the system
Regarding Russian gear it’s pretty common to find gear stolen from the Russian army for sale
tough quail
fsb trying to develop top-down 12.7mm rounds to avoid overpenetration in a hostage situation
shrewd pecan
like you can get ratnik for a affordable price
tough quail
i've bought older fsb stuff for pretty cheap it just gets a lot dicier going for actual firearms lul
exotic scarab
i desire my wrists to cease existing
Is that the super gun from destiny 2
tough quail
that said these are just for counter terrorism shit so it's not exactly gonna be often out in STRANGE, UNSPECIFIED EASTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
tough quail
Is that the super gun from destiny 2
yes
shrewd pecan
they’re deploying FSB units to the magical land of Eastern European land
But enough about that
tough quail
yeah but these are goofy specialty guns and pretty new/low volume
i'd expect them tossing stuff like vals around more often
..which i'd also like
exotic scarab
Like I'm pretty sure I remember ironically the guy that made the br in 2 just didn't know what a famas was
manic latch
Also is this new helmet for J-20?
shrewd pecan
probably should talk about this in the other server tho I’ve seen everything from DSR-308s to MP40s in magical Eastern European land
manic latch
Which server 
shrewd pecan
don’t worry about it
manic latch
tough quail
my sides are still in orbit from that one instagram post with the mg42
shrewd pecan
85 MM anti aircraft guns being used as well
tough quail
waiting for someone to dig an elefant out of the ground
spiral cedar
my sides are still in orbit from that one instagram post with the mg42
Which?
shrewd pecan
I mean I’ve seen T-34s used as roadblocks
manic latch
I mean I’ve seen T-34s used as roadblocks
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Burning attack ships on shoulders of Orion.
tough quail
Which?
i'd need to dig it up again but it was some azov dude holding one up for a camera with a caption that boiled down to "once again defending europe from bolshevism"
manic latch
Also don't ignore the activated Museum IS-3
shrewd pecan
Have I’ve ever told you of the grand battle of new Hong Kong between the UNSC and the covenant
tough quail
and my eyes rolled back into my head
spiral cedar
lol
shrewd pecan
i'd need to dig it up again but it was some azov dude holding one up for a camer...
wasn’t that the Italian MG3
shrewd pecan
I remember the image you were talking about without the cringe text
tough quail
and i cant really eyeball mg42s and mg3s apart
manic latch
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/984567191498272818/1002036162464067594/un...
Finally they fixed the Sherman
shrewd pecan
I just remember seeing the patch and seeing the weapon and going “yup this man is gonna have a fun time”
tough quail
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/984567191498272818/1002036162464067594/un...
...i like how they're all t-34s
manic latch
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/984567191498272818/1002036809095708692/...
Type Sovetsky Soyuz 
shrewd pecan
ok one on the far right
shrewd pecan
You could make that into a cool sci-fi tank probably
tough quail
right here we go
this got posted in a voice chat and both me and my super freaboo friend started howling
spiral cedar
tough quail
the blue armband just in frame really ties it all together like a ribbon
spiral cedar
shrewd pecan
right here we go
yeah that’s the one
shrewd pecan
It was the Italian MG3 I think
manic latch
So stealth for tanks may actually work somewhat
tough quail
i thiiink they're already playing around with goofy radar absorbing paint to bring signatures down a bit?
shrewd pecan
Stealth isn't just for radar
there’s not really much radar guided munitions out there that are gonna justify the sacrifices for the proposed stealth designs
manic latch
there’s not really much radar guided munitions out there that are gonna justify ...
Damnit
tough quail
but that's fairly minor
shrewd pecan
all that really matters is thermal signature reduction
tough quail
shoutout to that weird french camo that fucks up visual recognition algorithms
shrewd pecan
That’s probably going to be important going forward tbh
tough quail
aye
spiral cedar
manic latch
all that really matters is thermal signature reduction
Speaking of. Why tanks exhaust aren't under the tank but usually above or side
shrewd pecan
never thought I needed a F-15 tornado hybrid in my life
tough quail
i enjoy
shrewd pecan
Speaking of. Why tanks exhaust aren't under the tank but usually above or side
I have no idea
I’ve seen exhausts placed all over the place
I just assume whatever’s most convenient at this point design wise
tough quail
probably a water concern
or just mud
because putting them on the floor would let it start piling in
shrewd pecan
I mean back when exhaust would blind your thermals in WT
Im just remembering the blind spot the Stryker and Bradley had
tough quail
and i think making a snorkel that could reach under to the floor but also not get destroyed whenever the suspension bottoms out a bit is gonna be a ballache
tough quail
b-based???
shrewd pecan
also thinking about it having the exhaust at the bottom is probably not the best idea seeing from what horse said
tough quail
aye
shrewd pecan
since if the vehicle gets damaged by a mine but can still run you don’t want to give the crew carbon monoxide poisoning
tough quail
i think you could make it work with some trickery but it's not something anyone has really sat down and seriously played around and designed
and there's other more straight forward (partial) solutions
like dedicated cooling for the exhaust gasses
shrewd pecan
I mean if you don’t want any exhaust just start running hybrid vehicles
tough quail
well, fully electric, hybrids are still gonna need exhaust
tough quail
not a bad idea
shrewd pecan
You get the benefits of a EV without the drawbacks
tough quail
plus a tank should be excellent at recharging it's battery via energy regeneration since there's just so fucking many sources of friction and waste heat you can draw from
shrewd pecan
god
a fully electric tank just sounds like the most cursed design possible
like you'd have to heavily armor the bottom of the hull since it would be especially vulnerable against AT mines
and likely would have to keep the crew isolated from the battery incase it catches fire
manic latch
a fully electric tank just sounds like the most cursed design possible
If we do run out of natural resources. It will be forced solution no?
humble mulch
Crewless
shrewd pecan
in my head I'm basically imagining a modern MBT-70 but electric
tough quail
cooling a 1500hp electric motor is going to be
humble mulch
A tank battery would be was bad as over cooking
tough quail
Interesting
humble mulch
Like turrets will fly
manic latch
Green energy tanks 
shrewd pecan
you would have to basically give the battery its own armored compartment
shrewd pecan
that would probably need if possible its own blowout panel
tough quail
If we do run out of natural resources. It will be forced solution no?
electric is also a sort of iffy solution
humble mulch
Literally need to pull a space odyssey
tough quail
synthetics and hydrogen are probably more practical in the long run
manic latch
electric is also a sort of iffy solution
Can you use human parts as biofuel?
humble mulch
Like how they eject the AI
shrewd pecan
idk current EV batteries are decent for car use
tho for military purposes
main issues are the design compromises needed
the fact you need to spend several hours charging it
since you aren't charging a tank battery fast
and it would likely be even more lithium intensive than current gen EV batteries
tough quail
lithium is hypercancer for the environment and for automobiles it has its own issues
shrewd pecan
I mean
tough quail
like having an absolute microscopic spare part market
manic latch
idk current EV batteries are decent for car use
Every gangsta till Tesla's tanks start passing profit of General Motors
shrewd pecan
compared to the average C02 emissions of the current car market
its a decision between compromising the global climate
or local environments
future batteries have the promise of greatly reducing the amount of lithium required
tough quail
yeah, it'll just likely dial right back when synthetics and hydrogen are up to snuff
shrewd pecan
tho that doesn't change the fact lithium mining will devastate local environments
manic latch
future batteries have the promise of greatly reducing the amount of lithium requ...
What happened to water powered engines
burnt haven
What's the point of an EV tank anyways. EV automobiles I get but why a tank
shrewd pecan
I mean
it would be cheaper to run and have the sound benefits
main issue is just
weird ass design requirements needed
alongside charging times
and additional vulnerabilities to AT mines
tough quail
global lack of fuel in the future, near silent running as far as engine noise goes, absolutely fucking enormous torque and throttle response, no exhaust
shrewd pecan
I can see it with future EV tech
especially with the new lithium batteries that are much less fire prone
junior trench
Leopard 2 already had problems just with the turret capacitor banks
shrewd pecan
tho with current tech its just pointless
junior trench
Full electric sounds absolutely nightmarish
shrewd pecan
hybrids probably the way to go regardless if you want the benefits of EVs
shrewd pecan
the Sara future
junior trench
But US is honestly one of the forces with the least to worry about when it comes to introducing novel/synth fuels
tough quail
funny hybrids with energy regenerative systems tickle the engineering corner of my brain
everything mechanically bleeding into each other is cool and good
cinder escarp
lithium is hypercancer for the environment and for automobiles it has its own is...
Lithium is nowhere near the worst nightmare in most modern batteries
junior trench
Considering it's been a huge focus
tough quail
fair shout
junior trench
That the military has been bashing a certain party over the head about
manic latch
But US is honestly one of the forces with the least to worry about when it comes...
But they can also take the most advantage of the technology by starting the development earliest
junior trench
But they can also take the most advantage of the technology by starting the deve...
Which is what they've been doing
manic latch
Oh
cinder escarp
(It is possible to build cobalt-free lithium batteries, but Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry doesn't have the energy density of Lithium Nickel Cobalt Maganese)
manic latch
Tesla Tanks one day
cinder escarp
LIP battery chemistry does have other benefits - it lasts far longer (over 10,000 full charge cycles) and doesn't have a thermal runaway mode. It's also much cheaper.
shrewd pecan
the average elon musk fan showing the most recent elon musk wholesome twitter post to the children in the Elon cobalt mine
tough quail
im eagerly looking forward to tesla dying when everyone else (rapidly) gets good at EVs and it turns out the funny meme man is a complete moron
cinder escarp
You've never seen a Nissan Leaf explode like a tesla or other EV because Leafs use LIP batteries for cost reasons
manic latch
Amazon's Tanks
spiral cedar
im eagerly looking forward to tesla dying when everyone else (rapidly) gets good...
Impossible, he reposted an anime meme on social media once
He must be a smart businessman
shrewd pecan
I don't really think Tesla is going anywhere
tho Elon himself deserves some type of reckoning
spiral cedar
Probably not anytime soon
cinder escarp
I mean, the Polestar 2 and the Ioniq 5 are a lot better than what Tesla builds. And they use Volvo (polestar) or Hyundai (Ioniq 5) OEM parts.
shrewd pecan
same
dusty kraken
Corn powered tanks when?
spiral cedar
You are drunk comrade
*cornrade
tough quail
tesla can survive without musky tusk as long as they make their cars look less fucking horrendous
shrewd pecan
ethanol powered tanks
tough quail
otherwise i will continue casting curses upon them
junior trench
Corn powered tanks when?
But technically already a thing
Turbines are exceptionally fuel agnostic
cinder escarp
Yeah, the US has run the Abrams on Ethanol
Which, if you know how the US makes its ethanol
Means Corn Tank Corn Tank
junior trench
And on hot fermented leaf juice*
cinder escarp
The US is unironically a corn-based economy
manic latch
I don't really think Tesla is going anywhere
They started to use Silicon Carbide right. Shouldn't that change things or it's overhyped technology?
manic latch
The US is unironically a corn-based economy
It's main reason of obesity
junior trench
Not really
tough quail
can someone explain to me why most EVs just decided grilles suck btw
manic latch
Not really
Corn doesn't effect meat as well right. Since too much corn could mean feeding the animals with it as well
tough quail
electric motors and batteries are still hot as fuck and also most cars look fucking horrible without them
junior trench
Force them to put the batteries in front with a grille so firefighters can actually douse the batteries
Rather doing gymnastics that are different for each brand
Because there's no stanard
cinder escarp
junior trench
Speaking of which
cinder escarp
I wasn't kidding with corn-based economy
tough quail
like even if you're not using them for cooling holy shit just keep it for aesthetics anyway
like, for example
dusty kraken
No no put the batteries on the bottom for emergency explosive propulsion
cinder escarp
It is really something the amount of things we make from corn, and corn derivatives
tough quail
take this SLS, reasonably good looking car imo
manic latch
Oh gawd
cinder escarp
now give it the EV treatment and
junior trench
I will never not find it funny that EV fires have to be treated the same way as nuclear reactor emergency
cinder escarp
That said, this is getting off topic
junior trench
Constant immersion and circulation
Because otherwise they will eventually manage to use the water's components to reignite
And also the water used ends up more contaminated than the water used for a reactor
tough quail
you see these cars were built months to years ago so its history
also to be fair to merc they managed to make this thing look pretty alright
manic latch
also to be fair to merc they managed to make this thing look pretty alright
concept but still
tough quail
i love how i could instantly tell it was a goofy lambo concept
junior trench
Finding a more efficient ICE and a better emissions control at car itself would end up working out better than EV considering the losses incurred between the power station and the wheel meeting road