history

[hollow wind]

I found it

I found the unheard of Russian navy

On ww2

[jovial elm]

I love how much the British over estimated Russian ships in the cold war

[hollow wind]

Ghost divisions moment

[tough quail]

that's

not even close to what that means

nor the British thing is even close to accurate

[manic latch]

What

[hollow wind]

like fake divisions

Tanks made out of balloons on the borders

And a lot of them

To attract the enemies so most of their units are on the fake division

[manic latch]

I mean Soviets did become largest second navy in world while British were keep scrapping their ships. Bucanneer happened because British was broke to design a special counter ship for Sverdlovs

[hollow wind]

Based hoi4 tactics

[manic latch]

And of course, they knew Hms Tiger vs Sverdlov would be weird af

[hollow wind]

The enemies click on the front that only has fake divisions there goes your entire army

gambling with an entire nation because it’s funny

[tough quail]

the general western MO for the cold war after the CIA got baited by the fake ultra battleship was to assume all Intel was false and assume the soviets were under equipped illiterates

[manic latch]

Ah the good ol K-1000 class

KGB had alot of fun with that one

[hollow wind]

hell nah

[tough quail]

until it occasionally gets shaken up by stuff like OH GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS AN AKULA

[hollow wind]

I bet the ultra battle ship for an axis victory is an 5 turret Yamato

In like fukin TNO

Have fun doing counter intel with a 3 way ehem 4 way Cold War

[tough quail]

nope, that's pretty much how it went until the 80s

[manic latch]

Indeed. US even sank I-400 likely because Soviets wanted to take a look at it as well. But they still managed to build largest submarine in the world eventually

[tough quail]

I didn't mean to reply to myself whoops

[hollow wind]

I still like that one random French ww2 super sub

That disappeared

[manic latch]

Surcouf

[hollow wind]

Yes

[hollow wind]

I-400 except it’s French and it stole a part of a maginot line and put it on the front of the hatch

[manic latch]

[hollow wind]

hmm

Missile pods

I bet one salvo of all of them from the typhoon is gonna save 10 days of bombing

[manic latch]

She got 20 silos

So 20 nukes

[manic latch]

Launched these babies

Service ended in 2004

[hollow wind]

hell nah

That’s definitely gonna restart the world from “Zero” faster than just 8 nukes

Christ

Put it 100 KM of San Francisco and launch all the nukes at all major cities

[hollow wind]

And there’s a cold war nuclear winter with the soviets having total victory right there

[manic latch]

That's why 6 Typhoon was build. It meant 120 nukes from sea

[hollow wind]

welp there goes the entirety of America and Europe

and with more missile silo’s ready there goes the world

Welcome back to “Zero”

[manic latch]

Brezhnev wouldn't shoot nukes first

So US has to do it first

[hollow wind]

ok

well just be thankful the collapse of Soviet Union civil war doesn’t involve any sides launching nukes

[manic latch]

There was no civil war. Union died silently and peacefully

[hollow wind]

well black November and the fall ending in 1993 doesn’t tells me that

[manic latch]

Civil War would be equal to the war during Russian Empire's collapse

[hollow wind]

https://youtu.be/YbGXnGnuLLw

[manic latch]

Those are just small thingies

[hollow wind]

Well it’s more of a Moscow problem than an entire nation problem

[manic latch]

So it's not a civil war as you see

[hollow wind]

well that’s when almost all monarchies fell

[hollow wind]

more like an ehem coup

[humble mulch]

Coups can lead to civil wars

[hollow wind]

It is an actual coup

[humble mulch]

But they aren't always civil wars

[hollow wind]

But the battles happened in Moscow

[spring briar]

@manic latch

Entire video

[hollow wind]

Everybody in Moscow be gangsta till the anthem plays at night and the next day many gunfires and fires happen

And protests

And a lot of convoys

[manic latch]

[hollow wind]

And APC’s shootin

[spring briar]

I love how they did this

Looks pretty convincing

[manic latch]

Wait 10 more years and it will look even better

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

based department

[spring briar]

My sister

Strasbourg

[hollow wind]

that moment when Yamato becomes a ww1 ship

[spring briar]

K

[hollow wind]

shid aa 2 turrets and unnecessarily big hull

[spring briar]

🏨

[hollow wind]

what

[manic latch]

Building Camo. As a wehraboo I thought you would know it

[spring briar]

Tirpitz with building camouflage

Ikr

Teutonic knights lost

[maiden citrus]

cringe apartment

[spring briar]

Yes

Also hi maka

[manic latch]

Ok honest opinion

Did British overestimated their navy during cold war

[maiden citrus]

hellows

[spring briar]

I think they underestimated the importance of their DD’s and small ASW ships

[manic latch]

[maiden citrus]

andI mean they overestimated their navy most of the time, but I don't hear about it much if at all from that time period, so probably not

[spring briar]

Damn they are now using underwater shell technology to hunt big game in africa

[hollow wind]

underwater shell?

[maiden citrus]

a godzilla movie but he dies and the one french guy goes 'I knew it worked'

[hollow wind]

the old worst one

He actually is a fukin Dino and female

[spring briar]

RIP whatever big kind animal that was

[manic latch]

Delet for gore

Or is it gore

Dunno

Gut gut

[spring briar]

I’ll delete to be sure

[hollow wind]

6 Turrets Mogami class

BOI

Now it’s a Japanese version of Atlanta

[spring briar]

Very good cavitation

RIP pugliese

[manic latch]

Yo Rich. If muscular dwarves from fantasy were real

What weapons of caliber they would use

For having low center of gravity

[hollow wind]

Why would you..

Put a chunk of the maginot line on a submarine

I know it’s a “Cruiser”

but how it gon float if it’s that big and has a maginot line turret there

[spring briar]

To troll the people that wrote the treaty basically

[hollow wind]

That’s why it disappeared

[hollow wind]

well the treaty is ridiculous

[spring briar]

No

[spring briar]

Also no

[hollow wind]

a bullet hell boss be like

[hollow wind]

well it might make sense bcs battleships doesn’t make much sense at that point

[spring briar]

In fact surcouf lead to a revision of the treaty

[hollow wind]

hell nah

[spring briar]

Yes she did

[hollow wind]

“Unique and useless” 💀

looks good for me

DOESNT looks good for anything else in terms of logic

[manic latch]

America also designed one

[spring briar]

Thats the title of an article iirc

[spring briar]

It’s more sound logic than using Bismarck for commerce raiding kiddo

[hollow wind]

how would you strap all that shid

[spring briar]

[hollow wind]

strapping all that shid would probably painful

And unstrapping

Or just keeping all of those airplanes from falling aboard

[spring briar]

[hollow wind]

Habakkuk made outta ice and is Fuckn terrifying

[spring briar]

[hollow wind]

A certified super weapon and bullet hell boss

[hollow wind]

Imagine if it goes to the pacific and melts to death

[spring briar]

🇧🇪

[maiden citrus]

suddenly CA

[spring briar]

Basically a sinkacola

[manic latch]

@maiden citrus I will ruin your world

This gun doesn't exist

Bruh wtf is a Mark 15

I cannot find it

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

wasn't mounted to anything

[manic latch]

Oh it was build?

[maiden citrus]

wasn't built but was designed

basically a lighter weight mark 14

[spring briar]

Mark 12 was of built-up construction consisting of A tube, liner, full length jacket, two hoops, one locking ring and a screw box liner. The Welin breech was a side-swing model with Smith-Asbury mechanism. The Mark 14 was of autofretted monobloc construction. Mark 15 was to have been a lighter-weight monobloc but was not built. Mark 18 was a relined Mark 12 with chrome plating.

[manic latch]

Ahh

[spring briar]

Azur Lane moment

[maiden citrus]

one actually used for a twin was the mark 16

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Oi that 16 lad

[maiden citrus]

that was almost a deadly typo, missed the 6

lmao

[spring briar]

Maka almost got

[maiden citrus]

but yeah it's kinda an al moment

[spring briar]

Repost

[hollow wind]

hm Canada

[manic latch]

We saw it

[manic latch]

They had one job

[maiden citrus]

[hollow wind]

https://youtu.be/FHmYZsP9t6k

Retribution baby

[spring briar]

Wtf is this

Call Jaba

[maiden citrus]

it's the cursed cigar

[manic latch]

9$ per m211 shell

[spring briar]

Only $9?

I think you can get Raufoss commercially for over 100

[spiral cedar]

$9 is cheaper than replacing a dead soldier

[tender monolith]

i get the feeling some militaries would prefer the dead soldier

[dapper parcel]

It's a tossup whether AL references the gun mark or mounting assembly mark

Tho here I guess it was supposed to be the Mk.15 gun on Mk.16 mount

[dapper parcel]

$9 is actually cheap for a match ammo

[junior trench]

How old is that chart anyway

Last I checked there were .300 winmag and .338 rifles in US inventory

[frigid karma]

please don't fucking post binkov over here

that man's comment section is worse than even mark felton

[spring briar]

Tfw you buy Raufoss but it ends up being fake

And it’s overpressure and you die

Because your barrett upper smashes your face in

[jaunty quiver]

There was one guy who only survived a .50 cal exploding cause he jammed his thumb into his neck

[spring briar]

Yes

Scott from Kentucky ballistics

[maiden citrus]

yeah, hes based

made a video on it

[manic latch]

Should be from 2010

Yeah needs an update

It's on Wikipedia's page for sniper rifles

[spring briar]

M995

[frigid karma]

does this remind anyone of yoh tank

[spring briar]

Kinda

[sullen canyon]

[fierce sparrow]

[maiden citrus]

[manic latch]

@maiden citrus likely Project 1135. 2006 I think.

A Soviet ship wearing NATO banner, one of rarest sights it was indeed

[maiden citrus]

I remember there was one joint exercise that comes to mind too

[manic latch]

Anti piracy I guess

[maiden citrus]

forget which but was neat but strange

and of course

soviet ships docked in san diego

[hollow wind]

flashbacks

[strong plank]

but if you close your eyes

[exotic scarab]

Wait

Anglo Saxons in the north

[dapper parcel]

yes?

[exotic scarab]

Isnt Anglo Saxon the mix of the Saxons and the brits

[dapper parcel]

Anglo was from Anglia peninsula (Jutland), while Saxon was from, well, Saxon
So I guess you can trace their origin from that northern Germanic area
Although yeah, they weren't exactly "Anglo-Saxon" until Britain

[exotic scarab]

If this is one of those more sandbox games it's fine

Don't really complain about accuracy in total war when your the Scots marching in roma or prussia deciding lol let's invade the pirates in the carribbean

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRQjTUuxBQQ

[somber knoll]

my cousin served as the ship doctor

[hollow wind]

I can't relate as an indonesian

In English that ship is called IRS Sabang Coast

[frigid karma]

https://tenor.com/view/ready-laughing-hysterically-now-comes-the-part-throw-our-head-back-laugh-gif-16327206

name and flair
his proposed wows ship is ridiculously overpowered
Wikipedia articles and drach

I’m also not sure why he’s quoting historical accuracy

In a thread about wows

[alpine onyx]

Don't think that watching Drachinifel for hours makes people become Wehrs

[frigid karma]

Makes them become teaboos

But anyways this dude, despite his name, was hard on for Us ships

Claiming they’re all powercrept in wows

[fierce sparrow]

. . .

[frigid karma]

Drach is only good for general knowledge and some naval stories and shit

Much better than mark Felton

But I wouldn’t trust him on the specifics

As Jaba and Undie can probably attest to

[alpine onyx]

As long as he's basically playing vocalized Wikipedia he's fine

But once he adds his opinion or tries to analyze stuff, bad things can and will happen

[fierce sparrow]

Felton. . .

[dapper parcel]

That's one mighty low bar to clear...

[manic latch]

Smartest Eugen fan

[alpine onyx]

Johnson is a real life fletcher class destroyer, who is famous for almost sinking the largest battleship in the world with guns and torps at the battle of guadalcanal.

[eternal veldt]

Samar often gets wanked too hard, not going to lie....

I guess no thanks to the Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors.

[alpine onyx]

Tends to happen where there is an outstanding event (outstanding being a general term here, can also just be a meme hit on something)

[manic latch]

Tfw Montana was nerfed from its true potential

New York Naval shipyards slides could only handle 58k tons as max

So Montana would fail to keep 58k tons weight while having 33 knots speed

Since it would make her need 320k horsepower engine

So committee agreed to reduce the speed to 28 knots

Tho of course as years go Montana's standard displacement reach 64k tons

But imagine if they keep the 33 knot speed requirement

Anyway. I guess what Montana can offer to AL is her 127mm/54 twin secondary

[manic latch]

History of J-35

[exotic scarab]

Leave out the other two sources

And cite some specific books instead, better if they have official documents about a ship

[zealous vine]

would the sheer force of a torpedo even without blowing up damage the hull of a sub

[alpine onyx]

The pressure hull itself should be fine, but the outer hull along with the ballast tanks should easily get pierced, resulting in a fun time balancing that thing

also isn't there a photo of some soviet sub with a dummy torpedo sticking out of the hull?

[haughty osprey]

Drach is generally good with descriptions of broad details and such.

But holy shit his political opinions are a beast of their own.

[desert agate]

we dont discuss politics here mate

[haughty osprey]

Which I will not go into in lieu of saying fuck the guy who

[desert agate]

unless its like, historically relevant

[haughty osprey]

decided to copystrike the USS Franklin video

[desert agate]

and drach gets a lot of shit wrong

doesnt cite his sources

rips from wikipedia

etc

im sure cleve has plenty more tea to spill on him but

[haughty osprey]

Oh I don't doubt he makes mistakes and Feltons when it's convenient to do so.

I just consider him a higher bar than, well... Most of the pop-history bunch

Yarnhub was never truly rigorous with history but it definitely lost a lot of respect from me after not clamping the fuck down on all the Wehrbs.

[manic latch]

You tell me indeed

[haughty osprey]

What the fuck why did it type very

[desert agate]

muh 4.5in better than 5in/38 because range????? (citation needed)

(actually because he is biased towards british tech)

[manic latch]

Yeah I think his Stalingrad video was just reading Wiki

[desert agate]

he directly quotes wikipedia in his bathurst class video

just do some original research and put new information into the public light instead of that shit

theyre obscure ships that just means you shouldnt have ass it

but then he tends to half ass everything unless its within his specific area of knowledge

[haughty osprey]

"Trust Youtube for anything serious, you should never. Read actually relevant fucking documents and peer-reviewed studies/books, you should."

[chilly osprey]

Anything that tries to be so broad will inevitably fail

This kind of material gets too complicated for people to really generalize and cover all navies, especially when there is a big language barrier present

Which is why I prefer much more focused channels for this kind of stuff, particularly those that are very robust with including their sources and also specifying when they're drawing from them in the video. Ex, MHV

[exotic scarab]

I just use YouTube history for a overview and if your interested you should look at the videos sources and go from there

Going down the source rabbit hole till once again your looking for medevial manuscripts

[haughty osprey]

I love that guy

I also love when he shits on Wehrbs eloquently

[frigid karma]

MHV?

[chilly osprey]

Military History Visualized

[frigid karma]

Ah, that German fella

Always nice to see someone put citations in videos

[chilly osprey]

Indeed

[alpine onyx]

Or you don't, and basically use the "Trust me, bro"

two times the exact same mount in his AA video, one time he absolutely thrashes it because of claims of notorious unreliability, the other time no mention of reliability issues

[chilly osprey]

There was a video on Italian cruisers I watched the other day that was just a complete disaster from start to finish

By a PhD, mind you

[alpine onyx]

PhD doesn't mean much, unless it's into that topic

But I'll add on top and bash the Zara's armor because it didn't stop 381mm shells at point blank range

[ivory ridge]

so true

[chilly osprey]

But had highlights like 'the British actually had insights into Italian cruisers because they used British machinery (apparently just because it's a Parsons type turbine, they must have imported it!).

Or 'Giussano's aren't actually well armed for their tonnage' (5,100 tons with eight 152mm guns...)

'Montecuccoli had no armor like the earlier cruisers'

Etc, etc

[ivory ridge]

[alpine onyx]

No mention of Pola's wine storage?

Shame

[chilly osprey]

The Zara's actually got a fair treatment, aside from the continued idea that the British were still selling turbines and boilers to Italy at this point

[frigid karma]

zara should've just angled

or gone flat broadside to get overpens

[alpine onyx]

Should've used a 30mm thick turtleback you mean

[frigid karma]

[alpine onyx]

And just bounce the shells away from the citadel

[frigid karma]

it was a skill issue on her part for not having a 27mm bow

[chilly osprey]

Mind you, I'm not sure that Italy was buying any steam engines abroad by the time marine steam turbines became a thing?

I have photos of the turbines for the first Italian ships to get them all being built in Ansaldo factories (ex, San Marco, Dante Alighieri, Ardito)

[frigid karma]

and just ricocheting every round from warspite

honestly anything british about italians is just a meme

like

I bought a pretty cool-looking book with maps about every front in WW2, covered some pretty niche fronts like burma or iraq, but

they basically say, "and then the italians were no longer a threat" like 4 times

and every time the italians are mentioned they get utterly shit on relentlessly

it's hilarious

[alpine onyx]

Honestly I don't care either way if they bought turbines from abroad or not, that alone is very little insight. You might get shp and shaft count from that, maybe layout, but speed and range (the actually interesting points) you can at best guess

Since I doubt the Italians would be handing in detailed and full blueprints of their ships to the seller

[chilly osprey]

And people wonder why the jokes get so fucking tiring lol

But, yeah, particularly from the British historiography the perception of the Italians has been pretty fucked.

Opinion before the war was already colored by racial perceptions, and then during the war it was explicit policy that they were to be portrayed as all the worst stereotypes, particularly compared to the Germans, not only for the benefit of the British public but also to try and sow division between the Germans and Italians.

The stain of said propaganda, and the first-hand accounts/autobiographies from officers that was also very much colored by the causal racism of the time (which, to be clear, is not something uniquely British, literally everyone did this in this period) and that dominated early historiographies on Italy on WWII, even in serious history.

This was also made worse by the tendancy to ignore or sideline Italian accounts in writing about North Africa and the Mediterranean in favor of British and German accounts, and the fascination many British historians of the era had with deepthroating Rommel's legend to the base rather than approaching him critically.

Which is, mind you, not to say that there weren't serious issues with the Italian military and the country's leadership during the war, just that serious analysis of this largely got obscured by 'lol shitaly' and 'cowardly Latins' (as they side eye the French).

Frankly, it was tough for anyone that wasn't American, British, ANZAC (British aversion to giving Canadians VC's aside) or German to get a fair shake when it became to most WWII history written in the 50s, 60s, 70s and even as late as the 80s.

[frigid karma]

The institution, in 1922, of the Regia Aeronautica as an independent armed force under the auspices of the fascist Regime, which surely did not assist in any way the process, especially after a rivalry between the two branches became, over time, quite fierce. The Regime’s support for the Aeronautica influenced the process quite heavily, thus eliminating much needed deep and productive collaboration.
The substantial opposition, manifested by the Regime, against the construction of aircraft carriers, despite the many studies and projects (as we will later see), due to the support clearly shown for the Aeronautica, the most "fascist" of all armed forces, to the detriment of the Regia Marina. Also, another consideration was the geographical conformation of Italy, which, it was said, was a natural aircraft carrier stretched out into the Mediterranean thus making the construction of carriers useless.
reminds me of something

[tough quail]

they would've been kind of superfluous honestly

so not really the worst call

[manic latch]

Red Scare but
Roman Red Scare

Italy help Soviet bote
Italy Fren

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

The Soviets were desperately calling for help

[manic latch]

Teach Boat

Italy Teach boat like Dutch Fren

[spring briar]

Yet you never thank for Tsesarevich

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

Fren

[ivory ridge]

[tough quail]

yes unde we know the thing is happening

[ivory ridge]

i didnt say anything

[frigid karma]

undie when he gets banned for emote spam

[ivory ridge]

skill issue i suppose

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

it has a hat

congratulations

[manic latch]

T-55 SPAAG my beloved

[ivory ridge]

is that a rhino hull

[shrewd pecan]

Yeah it’s the G6

[manic latch]

Holy

[tough quail]

bruh

[frigid karma]

that looks like lego

ngl

[manic latch]

So Montana died in 21 July 1943

Complete cancelation of her construction plan

[maiden citrus]

the big sad

[manic latch]

Ye. Only state with no BB name given too

They had the chance of having most advanced and largest BB of US to carry it

That died

[frigid karma]

Montana died after Pearl Harbor

[manic latch]

No, Pearl Harbor delayed her construction

The success of carrier combat at the Battle of the Coral Sea and, to a greater extent, the Battle of Midway, diminished the perceived value of the battleship

class in favor of more urgently needed aircraft carriers, amphibious and anti-submarine vessels

Because the Iowas were far enough along in construction and urgently needed to operate alongside the new Essex-class aircraft carriers, their orders were retained

[manic latch]

Come to think of it

If Iowa class was laid down a year or so late

Maybe they would be cancelled as well

Last 2 Iowa sister did Share that fate after all

[frigid karma]

Carrier combat was going to dominate combat in the pacific for certain

[maiden citrus]

well they realized they were massively overkilling japan, so they queued up 200 essex and 5,000 bbs and then went

oh, they're dead

around 1943ish

and started cancelling stuff/winding down

which is about when they realized they didn't need montana too

before, they were just waiting in queue, then they started undoing the queue due to overkill/surplus

usn canceled 8 essex, 3 midways, 5 montanas, 2 iowas, 54 gearings, 12 sumners, 13 fletchers, 6 oregon city, 9 des moines, 4 alaskas, 8 worcesters, 11 fargos, 16 commencement bays

so 11 fleet cvs, 16 light/escort cvs, 7 bbs, 79 dds, 15 cas, 4 ccs, 19 cls

basically an entire second navy

[spiral cedar]

They cancelled two navies worth of ships

[maiden citrus]

and even despite that had more tonnage than the rest of the world combined in 45

lighter combatants like worcesters or des moines, despite being up in the queue (not laid down yet) would get a couple examples built, as they were advancements, but things like montana would be hard to stomach due to size, when you really don't need them

and as seen, many other advanced mid to late war designs got significantly cut in size because lol, massive overkill as it was

[manic latch]

At least they could have build 1 Montana

BBs look better than CVS for propaganda

Guess our monkey brains fears artillery over planes more since it throws a bigger object

Mostly that is

Khrushchev called BBs "Iron Coffins" as I remember after he saw the advancements missiles gained over years

If Stalin lived much more however, focus would be on Carriers (finally allowing Admiral Kuznetsov to follow his dream), and couple of battleships

With 7 Stalingrad of course, and maybe unknown number of Project 84 (Soviet Worcester as I call, somewhat) as AA escort to capital ships

[strong plank]

But if you close your eyes

[frigid karma]

At what range does a hipper pen a DM turret

[maiden citrus]

since des moines has 8'' faces and probably pretty good angles, probably not at combat range

although hipper's shells actually have the second highest 8'' pen iirc

[frigid karma]

Just talking theoretically

[maiden citrus]

it'd be more jaba's area as he's better with slopes, but if I had to guestimate...

I'd say it's probably under 10k yards

[manic latch]

Soviets designed Project 66 cruiser (has 9 220mm guns) to counter DM class

Problem is Project 66 only had range advantage to fight with DM well

During War games, DM's team usually beat Project 66 with reload advantage

Soviets couldn't manage to make the 220mm's reload faster I guess

[alpine onyx]

Going with the pre-made tables off navweaps, about 12kyds sound feasible for Hipper to get something through the face

[spiral cedar]

Exactly flat-on, and assuming no backing plate, I’m getting
Effective pen at 0-6k yards
Complete pen at 7k-9k yards
Partial pen at 10k yards
No pen at 11k yards and up

Given any pen is usually enough to disable the turret, 11k+ yards is the safe zone

[frigid karma]

although a bounce may jam the turret, yes?

[maiden citrus]

not too far off then

[spiral cedar]

Yes, or destroy a gun barrel, etc.

But it’s a saving throw

[maiden citrus]

just a smidge too conservative for me, guess not bad for complete spitball

[junior trench]

5.25". The 4.5" doesn't even have the range advantage but has all the same ammo weight problems due to being fixed ammo until post-war and has a lackluster velocity for how long its barrel is, especially compared to oddly hot 5"/38 (which still lasts forever).

Also that one time the interlocks actually managed to fail and result in one 4.5" mount shooting the back of another really stands out for the sheer level of "this literally happened to no one else, which is odd considering all the possible chances for this to happen during WW2 and the copious amounts of shooting done". It was immediately remedied with metal railings and never happening again, but still.

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlrRAy2RlqM

[south forge]

Why was the Nagant M1895 revolver adopted by the Imperial Russian Army in 1895 if Smith & Wesson No. 3 revolvers were domestically produced and tooled at the Tula arsenal? The biggest downside of the Nagant revolver’s design was that each cartridge had to be loaded and extracted one by one through a loading gate - making the M1895 slower to reload than many contemporary break-action revolvers, which could use speed-loaders and eject all spent cases at once.

[junior trench]

"it's made here"

Moreso than the No. 3

Also the funny cylinder gap problem solving

"problem" "solving"

[south forge]

Did the Mle 1903 become popular with the army or law enforcement of the UK?

Just thought of a follow up question about the No. 3. Were they all replaced by the Nagant revolver by WW1?

Same question about the Mle 1903 but with the Ottoman Empire.

[frigid karma]

Are you asking these bc of bf1, quick question?

[south forge]

Yes

Sorry for all the questions if they sound stupid but I play historically accurate in every historical game I play.

[exotic scarab]

[spring briar]

[exotic scarab]

You want historically accurate loadouts

Play tannenberg

The only class that doesn't always get a rifle is the grenadier or officer

They have the option to use a pistol

[south forge]

I actually was going to get Tannenberg since it’s free on Epic Games Store.

[exotic scarab]

Fuck epic

They took metro and hitman for like a year

[desert agate]

Offtop

[exotic scarab]

Also they made fortnite which has ruined society

[south forge]

Which Central Powers used the Sjögren Inertial shotgun?

[desert agate]

None it was a Swedish experimental design

I think

[south forge]

I read it was used by both the Allies and Central Powers.

[desert agate]

Wikipedia

Maybe some captured examples made their way into soldiers hands

Only 5000 manufactured so not nearly enough for wide scale industrial warfare

[frigid karma]

US has the most historically accurate load outs ingame

[south forge]

The player makes their loadouts.

[frigid karma]

Well ye but the US has the most historically accurate weapons used

All American shotguns were used

BAR for the support, 1903 for scout

Medic is a bit sketchy

As model 8 and Remington were used to arm pilots with self defense weapons

[south forge]

The BAR was used in the Meuse-Argonne Offensive but if you were lucky you got a Lewis Gun. If you were not so lucky you got a Chauchat. The M1917 Enfield was the most numerous American rifle. There were twice as many as the M1903 Springfield and it’s the rifle of the United States of America in Beyond the Wire.

[exotic scarab]

You have beyond the wire yet you play bf1?

Is it that dead still?

[south forge]

I don’t have Beyond the Wire, I watched a video. Beyond the Wire does not have a campaign, objectives or vehicles does it?

[south forge]

M1907 Self-loading

[exotic scarab]

They have tanks

Got to be a side gunner on a landship

Till it got stuck in a trench then I kept firing till we died

[south forge]

But not airplanes, campaign, naval warfare or objective based game modes.

[exotic scarab]

No planes

And the game is all about capturing points

But you can build cannons if you get a good SL

[south forge]

British Landship is designed to be able to cross trenches
Gets stuck in trench

[south forge]

I can be the gunner of a British Landship in Battlefield 1 too.

[exotic scarab]

He approached it horizontally

And dipped only one track in

[south forge]

Sorry for the ping, I tapped to disable but it didn’t for some reason.

[south forge]

With Battlefield 1 game chat I can tell people like that to get out of the landship.

[exotic scarab]

[south forge]

Also we have skins for our landships.

[exotic scarab]

Landship needs 500xp to spawn

So supposedly you have to be skilled

And a kill is like only a small bit of xp

So a few hundred kills for a tank

[south forge]

I get a few hundred kills with the tank.

Not just my loadouts are historically accurate but my play style too. I crush barbed wire in the British landships creating paths for the infantry to breakthrough enemy lines. And that’s when I am the driver, not even a gunner.

[exotic scarab]

Yeah tank is op

[south forge]

Which Mk is the landship in Beyond the Wire?

[exotic scarab]

Mansteins captured mkIV

[south forge]

Is the British landship the only tank?

[exotic scarab]

Idk about what the French get (ft17 I think)

A7v is either out or in the works

And British also have the landship

[south forge]

The FT was the first modern tank design and most influential tank design of the war with its 360 degree rotating turret.

[exotic scarab]

[south forge]

So Germans have captured British tanks (Beutepanzer)?

[exotic scarab]

It's french

[south forge]

Does it have a 360 degree rotating turret?

[exotic scarab]

Idk only maps I've played French since the update were the mountain ones

[south forge]

Mountain French maps?

Where are these maps?

[exotic scarab]

I forgot

All I know is it's Jaegers vs alpine chassuers (or whatever they're called)

[south forge]

Also Battlefield 1 has all of those tanks. Historically accurate too except for the British landship being a Mk V even on maps before 1918, being able to deploy smoke, having a rear mounted heavy mortar, the A7V’s main 5.7cm (2.2in) Maxim-Nordenfelt gun firing K-shot, being able to deploy smoke, the FT 17’s turret having both a 37mm and machine gun (it could have one or the other) and dropping supplies.

[exotic scarab]

Beyond that uniform customization and a flamethrower is upcoming class for Germany

Oh also iszono coming soon

Finally a ww1 game of Italy vs AH where they aren't reskinned germans

[south forge]

Flame troopers are an elite class in Battlefield 1.

[exotic scarab]

Smg should be a elite class

[south forge]

Sentry SMG Villar Perosa

[exotic scarab]

No like in general

Beyond the wire kinda does that by only making one stromtrooper company only as Germany

With a limited mp18 slots

[south forge]

Kingdom of Italy had submachine guns too though. Villar Perosa was used in smaller numbers before the MP18 and there was also the Beretta 1918.

[exotic scarab]

That and more importantly

BULLET ACTUALLY KILLS

[eternal veldt]

@ivory ridge

[exotic scarab]

You don't get shit like someone surviving a mp18 then shooting you

Ok

[south forge]

Why you only shooting a single bullet from an MP18?

[exotic scarab]

I only shot a few

Like 10

Since another good ww1 game verdun only needed 2 shots

[south forge]

That would kill someone in Battlefield 1 too so not sure what point you’re trying to make.

[exotic scarab]

[south forge]

Sorry again about the ping. Discord

[exotic scarab]

Damage is wack

People don't die when they're shot

I shot a guy in the chest with a rifle

[south forge]

They die when I shoot them. Sounds like a skill issue.

[exotic scarab]

also the last time I played there was a hacker

[south forge]

There are one hit kills in Hardcore.

[exotic scarab]

Not to mention how unrealistic the whole game is

Please get beyond the wire instead it also doesn't need uplay

[spring briar]

IRL, even one shot would be enough tho

[exotic scarab]

One for a headshot

But you also need a bit of balance

[spring briar]

you wouldn't want to continue fighting with a bronze 8mm spitzer bullet in your leg

but yeah balance and all

[south forge]

Battlefield does not need uplay. Uplay is Ubisoft right? Like what one needs to play For Honor? Battlefield is published by EA.

[exotic scarab]

I mean basically all rifles always kill

[exotic scarab]

Oh sorry whatever they call their bs

Origin I think

[south forge]

I play on Xbox One so I don’t have to deal with hackers.

[exotic scarab]

Oh nvm

[south forge]

You should play Hardcore.

[exotic scarab]

Don't buy beyond the wire

It's not for casuals

[spring briar]

well,
that really depends on the caliber and muzzle velocity

[exotic scarab]

I want to play it when I get home from vacation

[exotic scarab]

In game for both

[desert agate]

Harunas 1920 turret explosion aftermath

[exotic scarab]

Wrendl is best

[spring briar]

like I am pretty certain I could tank a .22 lr from about 20 yards and be fine
just needing it removed and the wound stitched

[exotic scarab]

Oh god the accuracy and the firing sound

[spring briar]

ancient gun xd

[exotic scarab]

Iszono better return it

[south forge]

I am offended. I am not a filthy casual.

[exotic scarab]

You said you play console

Beyond the wire isn't for console

[south forge]

You typed casuals so I thought that’s what you meant.

[exotic scarab]

Console is casual

[south forge]

But I actually just built a PC. Just need speakers and a keyboard.

[exotic scarab]

Ok then you can play

[south forge]

Playing on console doesn’t make me a casual.

[exotic scarab]

But please note the active servers are either us or eu

Like holdfast

And by EU I include uk based servers

[eternal veldt]

Wow, so much talk about games, we're all going to get banned soon

Very serious channel here, smh

[south forge]

Historical games and their accuracy.

[eternal veldt]

It was a joke.

[south forge]

I know

[exotic scarab]

Speaking of historical games

Yall wanna hear the story of phantasmagoria of dim dream

[alpine onyx]

That's hella not daijoubu

[eternal veldt]

[spring briar]

that's not nice lol

[eternal veldt]

[spring briar]

TIL they make full bronze projectiles for the 14.5

990 grains

anyways I'm back home and available for French navy questions

[eternal veldt]

Honestly, way too many turret explosions in the IJN

[south forge]

And by full bronze you mean the inside too?

[spring briar]

yes

[eternal veldt]

From accidents to discipline problems

[spring briar]

monolithic projectile

[eternal veldt]

Mikasa, Haruna, Hyuga, Mutsu off the top of my head.

[spring briar]

that happens

[eternal veldt]

I guess Brits arent far behind.

[spring briar]

brits just never somehow managed to figure out that metal picrates are bad before ww1?

[desert agate]

i know thats why i went and found the rest of the pics

[spring briar]

don't bully haruna

I will literally remove the AP cap from your 8" shells if you do

[desert agate]

i will literally fire a 14in shell at anyone who bullies my wife

[eternal veldt]

Hits got beef with

[maiden citrus]

beef? where

[hollow wind]

W

ah yes Amagi

Both the carrier and battle cruiser sunk on the coast

And near to land

[desert agate]

sex must die

no more sex

[alpine onyx]

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

literally just clads self in good armor scheme

[alpine onyx]

Can't find the pic of an Essex just using the meme reverse speed to launch a plane over her aft

Sadge

[maiden citrus]

hey uh, nice, you doin anything later

[spring briar]

finishing up my thesis?

[alpine onyx]

Oh here it is, 20kn reverse to recover a plane over the bow

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/988862412260274176/1000244438276251728/THISISGODSCOUNTRY.mp4

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

man I wanna go to the US and get dual nationality

shit I mean

triple nationality

[alpine onyx]

"What if our aft gets hit and planes can't land over it?"
"Then we shall get into maxiumum reverse drive!"

[spring briar]

america is like that one kid that just has a really dumb solution for a group project but it actually works

smh america how do you keep doin it

[desert agate]

riche

you know what american taxation law is right?

all american citizens even those living overseas have to pay income taxes

which means some people can end up paying 80% tax because theyre paying to 2 countries

[spring briar]

but I'm a chemical engineer

well

almost

[maiden citrus]

it would also allow us to have a bbq

[spring briar]

I think my love for the US is bigger than my dislike of taxes

[eternal veldt]

Don't forget the funny hangar catapults

[spring briar]

[dapper parcel]

A lot of museum donations are tax deductible so two birds there

[spring briar]

donate me to a museum

[eternal veldt]

You're not a fossil yet

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

what?

[eternal veldt]

@chilly flower summoning ritual

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kitty_Hawk_riot

Was weird one

"He railed that "black sailors on the Kitty Hawk had had enough and it was time to stand up for themselves." The black sailors then went into the ship's passageway and armed themselves with makeshift weapons – broom handles, wrenches, a foam fog nozzle and pieces of pipe. They then began beating white sailors and vandalized some of the ship's compartments."

Six weeks after the incident, Kitty Hawk returned to San Diego, California, where twenty-seven black sailors were arrested and charged. No white sailors were arrested.  Twenty-one of those charged requested a court martial trial.
Lawyers for the black sailors stressed the bias shown in the pre-trial report against the black sailors, stating that it only contained testimony from prosecution witnesses

I think this riot can become a movie topic. Shame Kitty Hawk is getting scrapped tho, could have used her for filming

[rapid junco]

That Looks kind of similar to our "Revolt of the Slash"

In the 1910s

[rapid junco]

I think i didn't mentioned it here

But her hulk made a brief passage here
In her way to the scrapyard
And the News articles about put titles sounding like
"The Navy bought this 1 cent carrier"

[humble mulch]

Yeah

Saw one of those and it hit different

Instead of it saying sold for a cent it said bought since thr article was from down there

[rapid junco]

I mean
I found one or two persons really wanting to the MB to buy it
Others were "throwing pebbles" at the Navy (our navy) like It had bought it

Cant trust those people
I remember in 2017 they wanted the MB to buy Ukrayina
That Slava class Cruiser that is on Ukraine

[humble mulch]

[rapid junco]

I remember there's a 5th categoria Channel
Who abbuses of clickbait
He made a video like
"Giant carrier without a Navy goes to the end"
And ter thumbnail had in big letters and a arrow pointing
"Without a Navy"

That's about Kittyhawk

[spring briar]

@tough quail

I need

[hollow wind]

allied version of fuso

It was in 1940

[tough quail]

Incredibly based

[spring briar]

so we got this round that already slaps 9mm and 45 acp in terms of penetration

let's make it have even more penetration

and have it set fire

[spring briar]

[dapper parcel]

Not sure if exceeding 45ACP penetration is something you want to brag about

[viscid crescent]

Overpenetration exists

[spring briar]

apparently it was enough for ABC to make a steel AP round for

just to shit on level III-a a bit

ig

[humble mulch]

Can't wait to get plates from my work
And ruin them doing ballistic tests for Richy

[spring briar]

yus

[manic latch]

Oh the Ukraina

Sadly that cruiser is abandoned since 1991

I don't think it has anything working left anymore

Whoever buys it. Will need to make a massive retrofit

[rapid junco]

This Picture is from 2013
I think you already know this one though

[manic latch]

Yup. Ukraina

Sitting there for 30 years

Union collapsed before her construction being finished

[rapid junco]

At that time it was estimated like
30 million US Dollars for making her seaworthy

[manic latch]

And that's JUST being seaworthy

Imagine all the electronics and weapon change needed

That's why China only bought Kuznetsov's sister Varyag from Ukraine. Ukraina was a lost cause sadly. Since China was already planning better things

[rapid junco]

I remember that when the MB announced in that same year that she was purchasing HMS Ocean of people saying the Navy was buying a pile of junk
I bet that there was probably people that had wanted Ukrayina in that mob

[manic latch]

You can fix Ukraina well IF you fund her retrofit in a nice way with good equipment

Otherwise you would only make her suffer more

[rapid junco]

I didn't wanted that Anyway
The company only offered Ukrayina as a joker card for the MB to accept their contract on the Tamandaré class
In the end
TKMS won the bid

[manic latch]

Tamandre is expensive option

But right one for modern

Ukraina would be low budget option

Yup. It seems Brazil spend 2 Billion $ for program. And 2 Billion $ for ships in future

[rapid junco]

SAAB now
Well
It's actually from some years ago already
But the offer was remade

SAAB is offering a pair of reserve mine countermeasures ships for the Navy
With modernization included iirc

[manic latch]

You guys are the most loyal customer of SAAB right

Or do I know wrong

[rapid junco]

We're relatively new to SAAB

Can't say we're loyal yet

[south forge]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=8G8My7MmvYM&feature=share

What other French pistols of World War 1 were there besides the 1892 revolver and Ruby? M1911s were for tank crews. The British Bulldog was copied in France but did it see action in World War 1 by the French?

[spiral cedar]

And this is why you're not a true American yet

[spring briar]

[tender monolith]

it only took me one day of being in texas to hate it more than any other place i have ever visited, and i lived in vegas for two years

[spring briar]

but I wanna live in a cabin in Wyoming

[tender monolith]

that sounds pretty dope tbh

[spiral cedar]

And hunt coyotes with comically elaborate ammunition, I assume?

[somber knoll]

me trying to make my own water to drink in Flint

or rather, filter

[spiral cedar]

They have fixed it iirc

[spring briar]

no

[spiral cedar]

But of course, should never have reached that point in the first place...

[spiral cedar]

What will you hunt then

[somber knoll]

yeh, that level of contamination should not have reached that high level in the first place.

[spring briar]

mild steel targets

[spiral cedar]

Attached to federal agents or not?

[spring briar]

[somber knoll]

still, if I am to be an American I'm pretty much a Michigander or a Wisconsinite.

tho I can be anything from the Midwest or New England, really.

[spring briar]

no

you are pogchamp

[somber knoll]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/479676955411873802/873647501310316544/champlode.gif

[somber knoll]

thought my Discord is acting weird when I see your nick reverts to your user name for a second there

[spring briar]

yes

I did that

[somber knoll]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/999872516363386931/1000005379473817610/pogchamping.gif

[spring briar]

I mean I wonder...

[spiral cedar]

Are those capped

[spring briar]

capped as in a small AP cap?

no

they're usually protruding cores

though I'd love to make a tiny battleship shell and see how good it works out of a 9mm or smth

but scaling effects will probably make it horrible

[tender monolith]

i volunteer to be very far away from where you test this

[frigid karma]

Would you include revolvers as pistols

[south forge]

@frigid karma yes

[manic latch]

JL-10J The Carrier Variant is here
likely for Fujian Type 003

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Nigeria ordered 6 T-129 ATAK

Nigeria is going interesting order wise

[ivory ridge]

le bootleg amongoose

[manic latch]

They ordered. 5? MI-35M from Russia. 12 AH1Z vipers from US

Now six of these from Turkey

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

China helicopter is next I guess

[spiral cedar]

https://theprinciplesofwar.com/podcast/87-julian-corbett-and-british-maritime-and-grand-strategy-with-professor-andrew-lambert/

@desert agate

Lots of stuff you're interested in

(Tho of interest to others in general)

[junior trench]

tfw this originates from Russia hating horses

[manic latch]

🐴

[manic latch]

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/we-could-have-gone-faster-sr-71-blackbird-crew-members-recall-the-inlet-unstart-that-prevented-them-to-go-faster-than-mach-3-2-during-the-absolute-speed-record-run/amp/

[desert agate]

oooh ill give it a listen later

sounds sick tho

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

damn
and I literally just pinged horse

I feel terrible now

[junior trench]

but yeah

the req was to pierce a horse's skull from ~50 meters

or well

whatever the fuck a Russian pace was

50 of those

which they decided to simulate using 4 x 5" thick wooden boards

so apparently they wanted it to go through both sides of the skull or something

[spring briar]

and the incendiary was for?

[junior trench]

oh no

not the API

I mean just 7.62 Nagant

[spring briar]

right

[junior trench]

which is where the penetration obsession started

[spring briar]

I thought they went with 7.62 because they already had the tooling for it?

[junior trench]

and I guess the "I" is to make sure no undead horses try to take revenge

[spring briar]

yeah figured as much

[junior trench]

they og wanted 8mm French ordnance

but

they hated horses

so it kept shrinking in diameter

[spring briar]

seems like a reasonable requirement in terms of russian requirements

still a very eerie requirement tho

is 7.62x25 even a better penetrator than the round the nagant used?

[junior trench]

yes

well

maybe

depends on the projectile

[spring briar]

depends on the projectile

thank you for understanding ballistics, cleve

you are a asset to our world

[junior trench]

if both are just flinging a monolithic bronze target shooting projectile

then, yes

I'd expect 7.62x25 to penetrate better

7.62x25 is a slightly lighter projectile, but when there's up to and over a 100 m/s difference in MV...

[spring briar]

yeah that'll do the trick

damn I throught the Nagant would be somewhat spicier

again, comparing these is hard because of the variety of projectiles and power loads but ye

also if they wanted to penetrate horse skulls at like
50 meters

wouldn't they have done better with a special projectile with a flatter nose like a monolithic bronze wadcutter style?

[junior trench]

ah

but you see

[spring briar]

you know
to prevent ricochets?

[junior trench]

Russia is fucking broke

[spring briar]

shite

u right

[junior trench]

and apparently being broke played into why they dumped the No. 3 loading/unloading system

because too much ammo was being fired

[spring briar]

lmao it exists for the nagant

(probably a modern design tho)

oh nvm these are full lead with some copper plating

not even a copper jacket

just electroplated

[dapper parcel]

does that even enough to prevent fouling?

[spring briar]

depends on your rifling depth I'm afraid

[ivory ridge]

Superfiring 76 pog

[spring briar]

Krem I am making a smol 305mm SAP shell

[manic latch]

I see

[manic latch]

Long cartridge

[spring briar]

need to add the driving band still

[manic latch]

Imagine how Soyuz SAP would looked like if Soviets had time to build it before invasion

[spring briar]

we know what it looks like

[manic latch]

Ah then we don't know the super long range shell

[spring briar]

Soyuz SAP is on the left

[manic latch]

Man I always thought that was HE

Good to know

[spring briar]

406 AP next to that

305mm AP next to that

[manic latch]

Ohh so Soyuz doesn't have HE shells?

[spring briar]

don't think so no

[manic latch]

Yeah makes sense now

Then it was HE and Super long range shells that didn't had time to develop

[spring briar]

only AP and SAP

HE wouldn't make too much sense on her

she's a short ranged home water defence BB after all

no need to bomb stuff

[manic latch]

Exactly. Bombing invading German forces

Then her prototype gun likely shoot SAP shells at enemy

[spring briar]

no that was a job of the MP10 mount with the B37

because land artillery you know

the soviets didn't expect to get swamped on the western border in 1941

[manic latch]

Stalin didn't

Ignored reports

[spring briar]

idiot

he could've done some real damage

and might have been able to defend Leningrad

and Molotovsk

that on its own saves 3 of the soyuz's

[manic latch]

Yup. Even Admiral Kuznetsov was aware of coming invasion and prepared the navy somewhat as he can

[spring briar]

2 soyuz' in molotovsk

1 in leningrad and

1 in Nikolaev?

in Ukraine

[manic latch]

Ukraina and Sevastopol in Niko ye

Soyuz and Kronshtadt in Leningrad

[spring briar]

yas

two others in molotovsk in the big building

nice and warm

[manic latch]

Ye Belo and Ros

Gruziya would be in Baltic in 1941 laid down

[spring briar]

hmm

anyways I've done some small ballistic tests against cardboard boxes with my 305mm model and it is good at penning if it hits perpendicular

otherwise it goes in a bit but then gets stuck because of the long body

[manic latch]

Good luck then

[spring briar]

just make bigger shell comrade

no really, I tested it and it worked

since a larger shell means a relatively thinner plate and it goes trough just with the extra mass capable of ripping the plate

[manic latch]

An unauthorized photo of Stalin: the moment he was informed that the Germans were about to take Kiev, 1941

So yeah as you can see. He didn't expected it at all

[spring briar]

[humble mulch]

In my search to see if I painted my models wrong, I found out that the like main Romanian reenactment group is semi partnered with the military, so their uniforms and what not aren't scuffed. Enjoy some Romanian Para troopers reenactors taking a flight to celebrate the air forced birthday

Gotta love wester sources
Fuckers say they wore blue
A deep blue
That shit is a khaki light green

[spring briar]

hmmmmmmm

[humble mulch]

That

Richy what in the God damn fuck is that

[spring briar]

Arizona turret on a warhammer 40k tank

[manic latch]

Tell me Tea

What did you guys do with your Mig-29s when you got them from Moldova in 1992

Since there gotta be reason you guys are using Mig-21 but not 29

[humble mulch]

I am not Romanian
But due to Romanias budgeting and government they've been scrapping by. They were using the Mig-21 due ti being able to fully upgrade the systems thanks to Isreal keeping them in the like Gen 4.5 area, but they are getting umm F-16s from someone to replace them the migs

[manic latch]

Wait. You aren't Romanian?

Huh

But I assume you are from Balkans right

[humble mulch]

Im Iranian & African-American
I quite literally have zero ancestry to Romania, the only Latin in me is French too

I'm more Asian then I am Slavic
I just like Romania

[manic latch]

Ohhh.

[desert agate]

larp

[manic latch]

Since only people I ever see mention Yugoslavia are people who live in Balkans

Thanks for making an exception Tea

[desert agate]

???

[humble mulch]

Tito is based

[manic latch]

Call my bad luck I guess

[humble mulch]

Like real shit

[manic latch]

One of few who denied Stalin and survived

[humble mulch]

Only edgy hoi4 kids talk about yugoslav outside people from the Balkans just cause "market communism works reee"

[humble mulch]

LOL SEEE

[desert agate]

titos economic policy effectively ensured the collapse of yugoslavia

and thanks to the large Balkan population in Australia there's a not insignificant amount of Yugoslav historigraphy based in Australia