avrora-general

[toxic scroll]

[flat palm]

So hardcore

[cosmic pier]

what's exactly hardcore in passing up on ships i dont want nor like

[toxic scroll]

trying to sound special by not

collab ships are pretty useless yes

[stuck copper]

I am not yet to test BB Kizuna AI

but her stats seem decent

[clear gate]

Kizuna collab ships are actually overall pretty good

The consensus seems to be:
Elegant > Gamer > Anniversary > regular where Elegant is about as good as Portland Kai @toxic scroll

[toxic scroll]

i'd rather just user port kai personally

but i also actually like portland

[stuck copper]

Her stats are comparable to Big 7

[toxic scroll]

it's really personal preference if you want to actually use the kizuna ships

[clear gate]

Gamer is a pretty typical good quality battleship, not the best thing ever but definitely quite good

[toxic scroll]

they're all better than the nep ships though

at least

[clear gate]

+30% crit rate, better Accuracy and Evasion, and 16 second timed barrage

[stuck copper]

well, most of us will be fine without Kizuna

[clear gate]

Good statline

[toxic scroll]

they're cool to have

[stuck copper]

but newer players would appreciate her

[toxic scroll]

but for older players

you'll have better

that's no reason to not use them though

[stuck copper]

if you really like Kizuna's content, then this collab. is the closest thing we have to use her

in case you are not familiar with MMD

[toxic scroll]

i'm sure some people were stupidly excited to be able to use the Kizuna ships

[stuck copper]

the hype from the people is innocent

nothing wrong about it

I don't mean to be edgy but... people can be "stupid" for various reasons

[clear gate]

Fwiw there have been situations where I do wish I had a second Portkai, so there's some value for me in using Elegant Kizuna

[toxic scroll]

i do think the Kizuna collab is definitely unique, and overall actually isn't that bad

the ships are all surprisingly usable for what they are

[stuck copper]

DD Kizuna isn't

she is a double edge

think about when she "accidentally" buff enemy BBs in higher worlds

[toxic scroll]

i mean you'd have to want to challenge yourself if you're using kizuna ships in the difficult worlds

[stuck copper]

yep that's true

collab ships aren't mean to be game-breaking

[clear gate]

Well, Elegant is def. usable in difficult worlds

[toxic scroll]

def. usable, but there's a pretty good chance you might have a better choice

newer players maybe not

which is fair enough

[clear gate]

Carrier Kizuna is loosely comparable to Ranger from the look of it, better statline but also much more expensive and not a whole lot to show for it

Pick your poison

[toxic scroll]

i mean in the end, a lot of people are going to choose

best performance, lowest oil cost

for long-term use

[stuck copper]

not everyday can you hear her say I love you directly though

[tough burrow]

gamer kizuna is t1

[clear gate]

Gamer Kizuna is actually very good

[toxic scroll]

i haven't kept up with how good the kizuna ships are, but i'm not doubting that gamer is good

[clear gate]

Elegant is legitimately top tier but also has stiff competition from commonly available ships like Portland and Mogami

[toxic scroll]

i glanced at her stats and it's def. believable

[clear gate]

so it's not like you're starved for options

[stuck copper]

Elegant is only usable with a fleet consists of any Kizuna

[tough burrow]

commonly available
mogami

uhhh

[stuck copper]

and I doubt you'd field a fleet with more than two Kizuna

[clear gate]

Elegant is completely usable without other Kizunas, 15% damage reduction for 30 seconds is great

[cosmic pier]

she's commonly available in my docks all the time

idk whatchu mean restart

[stuck copper]

oops sorry I'm wrong

I thought you were saying about CV

and I messed up

[clear gate]

Nah that's Anniversary

who's... fine. Not amazing

[stuck copper]

yes, I messed those names

I'd rather prefer DD Kizuna, CA Kizuna or sort

[clear gate]

Sure ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[toxic scroll]

i mean i'd rather use laffey or port kai for those slots

at the same time

[stuck copper]

too bad there isn't a CL version of Kizuna

[clear gate]

Really, that's the only flaw I can think of for CA Kizuna. She's great in her own right, but if effectiveness is all you care about and you've been around for a long time, you have existing ships that can do the same thing

[toxic scroll]

i mean objectively, if there's any ship that can do something better than any other ship of that type

why even bother using the other ships

[stuck copper]

because people like them?

[clear gate]

^

[toxic scroll]

exactly

[clear gate]

There come the subjective aspects

[toxic scroll]

so if you like the kizuna ships

you'll use them

[clear gate]

which, let's face it. Subjective aspects are a big reason we play this game

[toxic scroll]

yeah you're trading off for a "worse" ship

but yeah

it's all subjective

because there are no bad ships

[clear gate]

For CA Kizuna, not even "worse." Just redundant if you have Portkai

[stuck copper]

more choices to use

[clear gate]

That is the word I was looking for the whole time. Redundant from a meta standpoint

[stuck copper]

I would like to see how Kizuna BB will perform after she reaches 100

[clear gate]

It's an established build that we know works really well - the tanky, stat monster CA

[tough burrow]

if you only care about meta - any dd is useless because starters exist

[clear gate]

Nobody actually cares only about meta :3

[tough burrow]

and who needs carriers if you can just akaga

[clear gate]

That's ridiculous :3

[toxic scroll]

If you care about meta, you'll use the same like

6 ships

[tough burrow]

ye

[toxic scroll]

For the entire game

[stuck copper]

just 4 starters would be enough to carry through entire game

[clear gate]

"Oh no, Z23 is redundant with Laffey. Time to use only Laffey since a lot of people say she's better."

[toxic scroll]

Z23 is definitely better than laffey for pure damage

I won't deny that

Z23 is scarily strong tbh

[flat palm]

laffey is just a monster at solo VG

[stuck copper]

sometimes I would prefer to use nimi instead of Laffey

especially when facing sirens

[toxic scroll]

Laffey is the "best" ship because of her insane reload and FP

For starters

Not that she's actually better

Without the insane reload Z23 would be much better

[clear gate]

I would say that Laffey is probably the most consistent autoer

of the four

[toxic scroll]

Aya is too squishy

All jav can do is evade

[clear gate]

Aya also relies too much on torps

[toxic scroll]

Nimi is very close to laffey

[stuck copper]

Nimi has a shield... something that can keep her healthy longer when versus against sirens

[toxic scroll]

Barely coming in second

[stuck copper]

otherwise it would depend

[clear gate]

Torps are kind of hit-or-miss in auto

[toxic scroll]

But laffeys skills push her ahead imo

[clear gate]

which drops Aya (and Jav) a bit lower for auto

[toxic scroll]

You really shouldn't rely on torps in auto

At all

[stuck copper]

Laffey is more versatile, she can deal with any target

Nimi is suited for light armored ones

well, after all, German DDs in WOWS are meant to hunt other DDs, and it seems Nimi here is the same

[cosmic pier]

Nimi has a shield... something that can keep her healthy longer when versus against sirens
sirens should be long dead before it procs tho

[stuck copper]

tell that to elite siren fleet

the constant shells are a pain in the ass

[toxic scroll]

It's solo auto

That we're comparing

Or just auto in general

[clear gate]

I would actually make the argument that on auto, Jav can be better than Aya due to her much better EVA and main gun effectiveness

Solo auto I mean

[stuck copper]

even when manual, it would be hard not to get hit by those motherf------

[toxic scroll]

Jav doesn't have the damage output though

Aya is purely based on torps yeah

But all it really takes is one torp to hit

[stuck copper]

Jav is meant to annoy the shit out of the enemy, since she is basically unkillable

[clear gate]

Also Jav has the best torps of any HMS

[stuck copper]

Jav needs to be backed up by a strong backline

[toxic scroll]

Hardy actually

Has higher torp than jav

At lvl 1

[clear gate]

Not seeing it later on, Jav has higher base torp and a self 30% buff

[toxic scroll]

Amazon has the best DD torp at level 100 for hms

Self buff is completely different

Base stats she isn't the highest at least

Yeah

Post buff probably

[clear gate]

Sure, just saying that one must look at the overall picture. Like how we wouldn't give two hoots about Enterprise without her skill

Extreme case but still

[toxic scroll]

This is subjective, but I'd still use ent

Without her skill

Because she cute

[clear gate]

Ok that's fair

[toxic scroll]

And cute girls > meta

[stuck copper]

yes

enty is cute

especially in her chibi form

[toxic scroll]

If you're talking meta, it's pure stats and skills

Subjective opinion has no place in the meta

[cosmic pier]

i wish i could see my pve enemies' annoyed faces

whew that one took a while to get in

internet op

[clear gate]

If you could, that would result in a funnier meta arguably 🦊

We might see more troll fleets

[toxic scroll]

In PvE?

[clear gate]

PvE

[toxic scroll]

Seeing your enemies faces

There isn't a face to see

[clear gate]

"Oh fuck, it's this guy again. Fucking Lucky E. God dammit."

[toxic scroll]

Now

If enemies got the

If lucky E procs

I'd be all for it

[stuck copper]

Enty is a rare gem

she is both strong and likable

[toxic scroll]

I thought you meant rare as in

She isn't used anymore

She's always in one of my fleets

[stuck copper]

isn't used in what?

pvp or pve?

[toxic scroll]

Pve

PvP is a dumb place filled with meta

[stuck copper]

how can you know if people aren't using enty in pve?

[toxic scroll]

I haven't seen her in the past 30 battles I've done

In enemy fleets

[stuck copper]

isn't that pvp?

[toxic scroll]

I'm talking about in PvP yes

I don't see people use her

[stuck copper]

but people will use her in attacking fleet

[toxic scroll]

Which is fair enough

[stuck copper]

well, it didn't matter much anyway

[toxic scroll]

But being on the receiving end of a lucky E when you're attacking

Is always painful

[stuck copper]

having a meme defensive fleet or a serious one doesn't matter

your point won't lose from losing anyway

[cosmic pier]

[stuck copper]

and if there is an Enty in enemy defensive fleet, people would usually focus on her first

in attacking fleet, you can choose to put enty in the position where she would be focused less

[regal reef]

Entys are easy kills in pvp these days

[stuck copper]

like not facing enemy with strong barrage

[toxic scroll]

She is, aside from lucky E

She can't really stand on her own to well

[flat palm]

doesnt even feel like enty does much dmg in pvp lol

[regal reef]

Nah, Akaga avoids the lucky E problem

[flat palm]

whenever her lucky E procs it tickles me

[regal reef]

And Hiryuu gives no fucks

[stuck copper]

Hiryuu is cancer

[toxic scroll]

I feel like with Enterprise

[stuck copper]

15 seconds of a big middle finger isn't fair

[regal reef]

Hiryuu's beatable if your frontline survives final counter

[toxic scroll]

She didn't scale well with the 105/110 levels

[regal reef]

Otherwise she wipes you

[stuck copper]

that's the fate of most CVs, when they gain less stats in 105/110

I think CVs suffered the most from the level limit breaking

[regal reef]

Not really?

It's just a meta shift

[toxic scroll]

It just feel like it is all

[stuck copper]

I mean, they didn't gain much stats compared to other ship classes

like CAs, they gain truck load of evasion

[toxic scroll]

Probably a placebo effect is all

[regal reef]

Pretty much

[toxic scroll]

I think the biggest reason is

You don't see any of their performance until you use an airstrike

So you're gonna think they're doing worse

[regal reef]

CAs are a nonfactor in pvp. PvE-wise, carriers got fucked over by enemy AA inflation

[toxic scroll]

Because your other ships are doing damage the entire time

So CV/Ls look like they're doing less damage, but they really aren't

[gritty hamlet]

Hey, Someone able to tell me why people prefer the Twin 120mm over the Single 127mm for Destroyers?
The Single 127mm is HE so i woulda thought that's better.... Wiki sets their DPS as the same too

[flat palm]

Hiryuu after kai can turn a pvp match on its head single handedly even against a full vanguard and backline

its fking dumb

she gets off like 3-4 airstrikes

during invuln

[toxic scroll]

@gritty hamlet dual 127mm personality

[stuck copper]

@gritty hamlet: it is complicated, you'd better go to #gameplay-help

[toxic scroll]

It's also HE

Oh

120

Nvm

[stuck copper]

120 fires faster

and they are better at dealing with bomb boats

[flat palm]

DD guns all depend on the ship

[gritty hamlet]

Wanted to avoid going into #gameplay-help since it's always so busy lol

[flat palm]

if they are barrage botes or

skill uptime ships

[toxic scroll]

120mm is normal ammo

Right?

[gritty hamlet]

Uh huh

[toxic scroll]

Single 127mm would be better then imo

[stuck copper]

then 76 mm gun would be better

[toxic scroll]

Unless you want it for skill procs

[stuck copper]

most DDs have crap efficiency anyway

[flat palm]

What ship in particular are you talking about achi?

[toxic scroll]

The HE is still a big difference vs normal ammo

[gritty hamlet]

Well i'm mostly asking because of Enbayft's tier list for equipment

they put 120 above 127

[flat palm]

Ships like kawakaze uses 120

[stuck copper]

it depends on ships @gritty hamlet

[flat palm]

Basicly

Ships who dont have good firepower or main gun efficiency do not like 127 as much

and rely more on barrage procs

and skill uptimes

[stuck copper]

like you would want to give Nimi twin 100 mm, Laffey 127 mm twin, but Eld and Ayanami would fare better with 76 mm gun

[toxic scroll]

Some ships would benefit more from the 120mm, some more from the 127

[gritty hamlet]

alright let me rephrase, not including golds, think about CL and CA secondaries

Because this seems illogical imo

[stuck copper]

I don't know much about them as CL/CA 2nd gun

I'd prefer to use 127 mm on CL/CA with 2nd gun slot anyway

[flat palm]

Cruiser secondaries are pretty straigthforward atm, if DD gun 127 gold is best on almost every ship

for Ca you like belgun

err

scratch that

[stuck copper]

no no no

[flat palm]

the 2d part

[gritty hamlet]

[flat palm]

i was thinking wrong lmao

[gritty hamlet]

Lol

[flat palm]

just cl

you prefer gold 127

[stuck copper]

CA still uses DD gun as 2nd

[flat palm]

I'm tired

[toxic scroll]

The 120 has a "lock-on" with it

Also

That I don't think the single 127 has

[gritty hamlet]

Oh

Ok that's something worthy

[stuck copper]

I think 127 single has scattered trajectory?

[flat palm]

lemme find a google doc i use to look for specific ship bis

[toxic scroll]

No they both do

Nvm

I just checked

[gritty hamlet]

Damnit

XD

[flat palm]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B-kGGh6rHk7PlXQDkAl8bOGPUMp0oncVFeJAzSjdEgg/edit#gid=908352959

[gritty hamlet]

Okay totally just noticed the guy that made the sheet i'm using is in here, i'm tempted to ping lol

[stuck copper]

who?

AriPanda?

[gritty hamlet]

Enbayft

[regal reef]

120 twin?

[stuck copper]

dunkek

[toxic scroll]

Single

[regal reef]

You really should just go into #gameplay-help

[gritty hamlet]

..... alright

[regal reef]

Because they wrote the guides.

[gritty hamlet]

lol

guess i'm going in

[flat palm]

His question confused me, and now idk what im supposed to try answer im still unsure if you're talking about destroyers or cruisers

so yea go help

[gritty hamlet]

Alright, sorry for the chaos lol

[flat palm]

All good lol

[cosmic pier]

i just use twin 127 for everything and enemies die all the same and then everyone lives happily forever after

[toxic scroll]

It was a harmless question

It's all good man

[flat palm]

I just "netdeck" aripanda's guide

hasnt done me wrong so far

its more relevant now too with research guns existing on en

[toxic scroll]

fair enough

i might take a look at it lmao

[vital edge]

Twin 127mm amazingly has less potential dps than the single version.

The problem is the ungodly spread

[toxic scroll]

because of the RoF

[stuck copper]

twin 127 is more or less the nothing-can-go-wrong gun

it is like bofors quad

[vital edge]

Pretty safe choice

[toxic scroll]

it's basically a fail-safe gun lmao

unless they have bad efficiency for that slot

[vital edge]

if they have bad efficiency, then it's all up to the barrage

[stuck copper]

most CLs/CAs have bad efficiency for 2nd anyway

[vital edge]

if the barrage is shit, look for another ship

[toxic scroll]

or the ship you think is cute @vital edge

[vital edge]

If it's cute, then you do you

anything works if you try hard enough

[stuck copper]

I stopped using Mogami

[toxic scroll]

any ship can be used if you give them the gear

[stuck copper]

it feels like her low luck hampered her the most

[clear gate]

I actually use the twin 100mm as my failsafe DD gun

and not the 127mm

[vital edge]

Twin 100mm has the issue with ammo modifier

[clear gate]

but that's if I'm not sure what quality the barrage has

and whether it is worth bringing it out faster

[vital edge]

the gun is definitely good though if you can't decide between gun power and barrage power

[clear gate]

If I know for sure that there is nothing worth bringing out more quickly, 127mm all the way

[vital edge]

Twin 127mm literally can't go wrong since it's a good match to CL guns

[gritty hamlet]

So basically,. i shouldnt listen to this?

[clear gate]

If I am sure that the barrage is worth prioritizing but am not sure how good it is, I use the 100mm

[vital edge]

My advice for that is simple

try it out for yourself

if it works for you, then go ahead with it

[toxic scroll]

for the dual 127mm

HE shells with 4 shots per salvo easily set ships on fire.
Adds AA stat to ship in addition to firepower.
Verdict: Overall good stats with reload being slight downside. Best used for DDs with bad or nonexistent danmaku, because you don't care about reloading fast to cheat out the danmaku and just want to deal damage normally.```

[clear gate]

That chart lists theoretical DPS. Due to other factors, in practice guns may not achieve the same effective DPS

[toxic scroll]

same thing when used for a secondary

[vital edge]

you don't have to force yourself to believe what someone else tells you works

[stuck copper]

I mean I use HMS dive bomber

[clear gate]

The single 127mm in my experience works very well, but it also has a propensity to miss more than I'd like

[stuck copper]

Despite the fact it's well known that helldiver is best

[vital edge]

single 127mm is MLG 360° no-scope gun

[gritty hamlet]

Well i'm hoarding both of these dd guns so it's fine i can switch, just don't understand why it's the best purple dd gun (120mm twin)

[vital edge]

It's got bigg dicc dps, but terrible accuracy

[stuck copper]

I mean as you can see

I use things not considered meta

[vital edge]

I use it for ships that can use the modifier and fire rate but isn't afraid to go close

[stuck copper]

Just go with whatever works for you

[toxic scroll]

120mm has the highest theoretical damage for DDs

but again, it's normal ammo, so it's likely lower

[stuck copper]

The thing is

DPS in this game

Has far too many factors

[clear gate]

CL equivalent of single 127mm and twin 120mm is that meme blue Soviet gun. Best theoretical DPS of any CL gun, but normal ammo, and the spread is bad

[stuck copper]

Due to armour typing

[vital edge]

Armor type, ship class, ammo type, spread angle, etc

[stuck copper]

I mean for example

HE will do more on some botes

But not on others

[clear gate]

Soviet CL gun is very funny on manual, for example

[stuck copper]

So there's no such thing as 1 thing beats all

It literally is enemy dependent

[clear gate]

I forgot what its name is

[gritty hamlet]

how do they fair against shields? does each bullet count, or do the 2 bullets count as 1

[stuck copper]

between twin 120 and single 127, it's really just personal preference. we're talking peanuts, imho

Yeah

[gritty hamlet]

lol

[stuck copper]

Like for real

If you wanted to be fully optimal

You'd be switching gun every single fight

Depending on what you're against

[vital edge]

I wouldn't choose the 120mm over the 100mm myself

[stuck copper]

But again it's tedious to do that

[clear gate]

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Single_152mm_(6"/53_caliber_gun)

Here. The single 152mm

[cosmic pier]

but you cant switch gear between fights

[vital edge]

it's entirely personal preference

[cosmic pier]

[gritty hamlet]

Well got a crap load of these peanuts thanks to Kizuna Ai

[stuck copper]

Even if you could though Rei

It'd be hugely tedious

[clear gate]

The only CL gun with better theoretical DPS than the single 152mm is actually the triple 152mm Mark 17 USN

[stuck copper]

120 has more bullets, but 127 fires faster. then there's HE vs normal ammo. it's such a minor difference.

Actually

The issue with normal ammo

[toxic scroll]

with HE ammo, you have to account for burn damage

[stuck copper]

Is that it has really bad modifiers

Against most armour

[toxic scroll]

so it's not a super minor difference

[vital edge]

it makes a pretty large difference if it's normal ammo vs the other two types

[stuck copper]

And then say you use AP vs HE

[toxic scroll]

normal is universally the worst

[stuck copper]

AP with it's armour break

[toxic scroll]

AP for loud stages

[stuck copper]

Also increases the damage of other botes

[vital edge]

normal ammo simply pales to the other two types save for DD guns

[stuck copper]

So like

[toxic scroll]

HE for not loud stages

basically

[stuck copper]

You have to account for the extra boosts each ammo gives

[toxic scroll]

unless you're using CAs

then typically always use AP

[stuck copper]

Like AP inflicting armour break

= More team damage

HE = burn damage

[vital edge]

I like assigning ammo types to my ship classes

[stuck copper]

There's too many variables

To compare everything in a vacuum

The main reason

Ammo breaking only works with BB gun

CA's use AP is one simple reason

Slow shots

[vital edge]

CL's get all the AP since CL guns are great all around

[stuck copper]

Slower shots means you want as much collateral damage as possible

AP pens therefore does more damage

[toxic scroll]

incred is right, armor break is only BB AP guns

[stuck copper]

It's still a factor though

Which is the point

[toxic scroll]

not when you're only talking about frontline

[stuck copper]

AP is unreliable. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[clear gate]

BB AP guns have like a 0.3x multiplier against light armor

[vital edge]

Armor break makes an 8% amplification, if I recall

[clear gate]

which is why they are often not recommended

[stuck copper]

They actually don't

[vital edge]

it's barely much if it's one target

[clear gate]

0.45x, my bad

[stuck copper]

Also

[vital edge]

especially if you consider how terrible you'd be against light armors

[stuck copper]

Let's be honest

BB's

Hit like a truck

Even with 30% damage

[clear gate]

Yah

That's pretty accurate

[stuck copper]

And considering DD's are squishy as fuck

They still explode

[vital edge]

PvE DD's?

[stuck copper]

Hence why generally BB's don't really give a fuck

[vital edge]

They get over 10k HP at one point, so...

[stuck copper]

It really depends on the BB too

[clear gate]

A lot of BB damage output in the higher tierings is from barrages, so I can see an argument being made in that direction as well

[vital edge]

I would only have to stack up hit rate if it's PvP

[stuck copper]

Let's not forget some have SHS rounds

[vital edge]

easy hit, easy crit

[stuck copper]

I mean Georgia and Massa

Both hit like trucks against just about anything

Despite using AP

[clear gate]

Barrage-heavy BBs and BCs don't seem to mind what you give them, in my experience

[vital edge]

as long as the gun shoots fast, it'll work

[clear gate]

as long as you're accounting for RoF, yeah

Or if you're on a timed barrage, then do whatever lol

[toxic scroll]

and main gun does nothing to the barrage ammo type

[vital edge]

I put the quad on Washington

that says something, right?

[stuck copper]

Lol quads

Can we make quads great again pls

[clear gate]

Quad 356mm isn't even that terrible

[vital edge]

"again"

[stuck copper]

It's a trump joke

[vital edge]

It'd be a better joke if it was ever good at all

[stuck copper]

Ironically

Quads were shit irl too

[vital edge]

I was gonna mention that

[clear gate]

They had a lot of malfunctions early on

[stuck copper]

Not just that

More guns

= Bigger spread

It meant you missed more than you hit

[vital edge]

Hmm

question

Is there any single barrel BB guns out there?

[stuck copper]

Cannons

Lol

[vital edge]

I mean AL

[stuck copper]

But in all seriousness

No

on a pirate ship

[vital edge]

I wanna be a pirate

[stuck copper]

Twin was generally

The go to

[vital edge]

Lmao

[clear gate]

I don't think so Mk

[vital edge]

right as I said it

[clear gate]

There are CL guns with single barrels

[stuck copper]

CL is a bit different though

The only reason

[clear gate]

Well yes

[vital edge]

I wanna install a railgun on Tirpitz

[stuck copper]

I could see a BB having single

Is if it was something like a railgun

Since the penetration power and damage would be insane

[vital edge]

A seaward railgun would be amazing

[clear gate]

The first "battleships" (i.e. the ironclads) did have single-barreled guns. Which were still just cannons

[stuck copper]

Lol

[clear gate]

The first battle between ironclads was basically a draw because they couldn't damage each other

I think there was like... one casualty on one of the ships or something

[vital edge]

lemme guess

it wasn't even from enemy fire

[clear gate]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hampton_Roads

"The two ironclads fought for about three hours, with neither being able to inflict significant damage on the other."

[stuck copper]

Know what's ironically funny about that

How they ended the fight

[toxic scroll]

this is turning into more of a #history discussion

[stuck copper]

Did they just go

"Oh well fuck we can't do anything, guess it's time to go home boiz"

#trophy-room

[vital edge]

Unrelated note

[clear gate]

At the time, both sides basically claimed that they won

Today it is pretty much universally accepted that nobody won

[vital edge]

Does anybody else think that Gneisenau has amazing hips?

back to topic, that sounds like a terrible battle

[toxic scroll]

i don't even remember what she looks like lmao

[vital edge]

long and hard-fought, and with nothing for both sides to show for

[cosmic pier]

too busy looking at her oppai to see the hips

[vital edge]

large bra-less tiddies is good too

I'm more of a thigh guy myself tho

Hips already had me

[cosmic pier]

send red books

im more into scharn than gneis

the eyepatch helps

[clear gate]

Basically the battle goes as follows:

• The Union had a blockade established at Norfolk, Virginia
• The Confederacy wanted to break the blockade
• The most important part of this battle was that it was the first ironclad battle
• The Confederacy inflicted more damage than they received, but also failed to break the blockade

Strategically, you can say that the Union won, but they also had heavy losses outside of the ironclad part

[flat palm]

Research is sucking me dry

i get back to 15k coins

instantly back down to 7k

i like doing the coin ones too much bc more prints

[toxic scroll]

i've still got 2 and a half hours before my current one finishes

[dim crystal]

yea

the coin ones are great

BUT

thats more gold than you could save

[flat palm]

my last 4 has been

[dim crystal]

literallly

[vital edge]

I'm sticking to the free or easy researches

[flat palm]

5k gold, 5k gold, 8k gold, 8k gold

[clear gate]

So anyway yes, it was a terrible battle for everyone involved

[flat palm]

5k 30min, 5k medium and two large

[vital edge]

There's no reason to put so much resources for a long term feature

[dim crystal]

just imagine in roll season

man

[stuck copper]

I wonder then

[flat palm]

there is if you can afford it

[dim crystal]

where would you get the gold

[flat palm]

[stuck copper]

Which ones are best to do PR wise?

[vital edge]

Basically

[dim crystal]

for both research and rolling

[flat palm]

i have a tierlist

[dim crystal]

[flat palm]

hold up

[vital edge]

the fight could be described as "when retards collide"

[flat palm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/479676955411873802/574827444695990302/71708af7b588905a7cc892008ece3ee9.png

[vital edge]

I don't think either side would be proud of what they achieved.

[toxic scroll]

He can't tell me what to spend my cubes on

[clear gate]

The battle was still historically significant as the first ironclad battle, and paved the way for others to adopt metal ships

[toxic scroll]

[stuck copper]

Tbf

The one in trophy

I spent cubes on

And I'd say it was pretty worth to be fair

[frank ingot]

Updaaaaaateeeee

[flat palm]

No research gun/eq prints makes it not worth

[stuck copper]

i want to know the reasoning behind that tier list

[flat palm]

actually

[clear gate]

Also, for a time, people thought that ramming was going to be the Big New Thing @vital edge. Since cannons couldn't damage ironclads

[stuck copper]

Tbf

[frank ingot]

are there any pve tier lists with explanations anymore

i remember there was one in pastebin a while back

[stuck copper]

I'm focusing more on getting PR prints

Then the guns atm

[flat palm]

Aripanda has a nice pve tier list

[stuck copper]

tier lists without context are borderline worthless

[vital edge]

So the legacy of Glowworm

[stuck copper]

Afterall you only need like

[clear gate]

Yes

[stuck copper]

25 gun prints

Vs 508 PR prints

[clear gate]

In practice, ramming turned out to be crap, and weapons got better anyway

[flat palm]

but the other ones give you both

[stuck copper]

[frank ingot]

oh

i saw that but i didn't notice cause ari has them as DD ratings and I ctrl F-d Tier

[clear gate]

I think there is like... one military record of someone using ramming successfully and intentionally in recent times

[frank ingot]

🤦

theres no explanation though 😢

[flat palm]

if you click on the thing in comission research window, and you see that a comission can not give a pr gun print

its generally not worth doing

even if it gives ship prints

[stuck copper]

i see it the other way around

[flat palm]

you need alot of guns and eq from pr

that are amazing

[stuck copper]

Tbf though

It's not like you need them right now either

[clear gate]

Honestly, I think that for now, PR equipment is only going to be really useful in PvP

[flat palm]

not true at all

[stuck copper]

Actually revy

The aux

For example

Is pretty mandatory on CA's

[clear gate]

My bad. PR guns

[stuck copper]

[flat palm]

PR has 3 very important guns for general useage

[gritty hamlet]

mfw i've been taking several of the cubes research

[flat palm]

nepgun, roon gun and another one idr the name on atm

[stuck copper]

Btw

[gritty hamlet]

I didnt think there would be a tier list for that lol

[clear gate]

They're great but current equipment is still "good enough" in PvE

[stuck copper]

Aki

Is the BB gun

Better than the current

[flat palm]

Nepgun is literally a better tbtskc

which one?

[stuck copper]

Or is it a side grade

[flat palm]

theres two

[stuck copper]

HE

just run projects that drop both. problem solved.

[flat palm]

theres a triple 410 and a triple 381 who is a direct upgrade to purple 406

the triple 381 is the only good BB gun iirc

with hE

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Triple_381mm_Prototype_(BL_15"_Mk_III)

This one is quite good

[steep scarab]

[stuck copper]

The question about that is like

[toxic scroll]

[clear gate]

The funny thing is that 406 Mark 6 is still highly competitive with most of the PR BB guns

[stuck copper]

Is the 381 better than 406

Or a side grade

[flat palm]

Better

more FP

[steep scarab]

sidegrade actually

[stuck copper]

Because I've seen people still use 406

[flat palm]

is it?

i consider it better

but i like visible stat upgrades

[stuck copper]

Just for math

142 x 3

Vs 156 x 3

[steep scarab]

it deals less damage

[stuck copper]

Which is the 406mm

[steep scarab]

than the 406mm

[flat palm]

whats the fire rate on +10 406 again

[clear gate]

24.02s

[stuck copper]

Slower

[flat palm]

381 is 23.15

[stuck copper]

24.14

[tough burrow]

[stuck copper]

Vs 24.02 of the 406mm

[clear gate]

They are basically similar

[flat palm]

gogo restart

[clear gate]

P:

[steep scarab]

@tough burrow

[flat palm]

[stuck copper]

406 hits harder and is faster

Hence why I said

[steep scarab]

@clear gate almost 1 second difference

[clear gate]

406 is actually a little slower

[flat palm]

381 is faster than 406

[steep scarab]

406mm hits hard but slightly slower lol

[clear gate]

also 1 second is... not that significant at these speeds

[steep scarab]

xd

[flat palm]

if thats what you ment

[stuck copper]

Ah I'm dumb

I read the wrong wep

[carmine coyote]

Well depending on my KMS fleet I'm pretty much using Hipper, Spee, Deutschland as my front line

[stuck copper]

Too many tabs

Like from what I can tell

[toxic scroll]

i'm farther than i thought for my ship research

22% on neptune

lmao

[stuck copper]

The only reason I can see the gold doing more damage

[flat palm]

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Triple_203mm_Prototype_(Mle_1934) i think this is the other good pr gun who is good for alot of ships

[carmine coyote]

Back line is either Momma Graf, Zeppy and/or Tirpitz

[clear gate]

The higher FP

[stuck copper]

Is like

If you use a bote

That can boost the FP more

Like PoW / Massa

Spite

Such and such

So they can get more bang from the extra FP it grants

backliners don't award combat data for roon

[clear gate]

I'm just amused at how competitive the 406 is even though so many other guns have come along

[stuck copper]

406 is just borked

Until iowa

[carmine coyote]

I know, those three are to keep them going

[stuck copper]

"Iowa has a better version of the 406"

[flat palm]

I just want roon gun and nepgun early

[stuck copper]

If that old leak is anything to go by

[flat palm]

[carmine coyote]

Wait, when are we getting Iowa anyways?

[flat palm]

im 3/25 on roon gun luckily, so good start

[stuck copper]

We don't know entirely but

It's definitely gonna come

[clear gate]

So let me get what this rumor is telling me, @stuck copper

The only thing that will truly eclipse the 406... is another 406?

[steep scarab]

inb4 you can read my neglected PR gun guide https://github.com/itsfyh/Azur-Lane-101-Guides/blob/master/PR Equipment Guide.md

[stuck copper]

Yes the gold iowa ver

Let me find it

[clear gate]

Gosh

[carmine coyote]

Wait which one is the Roon Gun?

[lone sinew]

[flat palm]

the fastest HE one is the roon one iirc

forgot name

[clear gate]

tfw 406 is so good that the only thing that powercreeps it is a better version of itself

[flat palm]

wait no im wrong

[steep scarab]

this roon gun

the AP 203mm

[stuck copper]

About the 3rd one down

[steep scarab]

fires slower but hits hard

[flat palm]

https://i.imgur.com/XhOT76u.png

[lone sinew]

it the other gun in core shop good?

[stuck copper]

Look at it's damage

[flat palm]

this is roon one yeah

[clear gate]

That is so stupid

[lone sinew]

not hoodgun

[stuck copper]

If this leak is anything to go by

It's a god tier weapon

Because Iowa

Basically

Irl

Had an enhanced version of the 406

That if I recall fired SHS

[clear gate]

Also yeah, I remember this leak

[lone sinew]

[clear gate]

now that you're showing it

[stuck copper]

And considering everything that's happened

I wouldn't doubt the leak is probably real

[clear gate]

Lol at the Yamato 460mm

31 second RoF

[stuck copper]

Considering they did say Yamato is coming on a stream at one point

So I don't doubt Iowa will too

[clear gate]

but 216x3

[lone sinew]

didn't yamato have like

500mm guns

[stuck copper]

460mm guns yes

[lone sinew]

oh

[clear gate]

Yamato had the largest guns of any BB, I think

[stuck copper]

Largest in existence

[clear gate]

Well, Yamato-class

[stuck copper]

In game the largest atm

[flat palm]

so the top 3 PR guns you want who are direct upgrades is roon gun, saint louis gun and nepgun

[stuck copper]

Is 457mm on CN / JP

Which is georgia

[steep scarab]

not technically largest in existence

[carmine coyote]

It's like seeing the KanColle girls under a Sakura Empire banner

[steep scarab]

largest in a warship yes

[lone sinew]

yamato's guns alone weigh more then some cruisers iirc

[stuck copper]

Well the largest any BB was allowed to carry yeah lol

The largest planned though

[flat palm]

aka mle 1934, skc34 and triple 152mm prototype

[stuck copper]

Was if I recall

[flat palm]

is the best pr guns, correct?

[stuck copper]

506mm

[cosmic pier]

@steep scarab

[stuck copper]

For the H44 class

[lone sinew]

506mm gun

[clear gate]

If we're talking about non-warship guns, then the the Tsar Cannon has an 890mm caliber

[steep scarab]

@stuck copper oh ye

[clear gate]

That thing is also just... stupid

[steep scarab]

the mk7

is AP

not HE

[stuck copper]

[steep scarab]

google translate :3

[lone sinew]

what about the railway artillery

[cosmic pier]

are we getting daily patches now

[flat palm]

wait..

[steep scarab]

rip homes

[flat palm]

you're locked to only using one evasion aux?

[clear gate]

800mm @lone sinew

[flat palm]

i didnt know that

[clear gate]

Less than Tsar Cannon. Definitely more effective though

[stuck copper]

Tbf though

With guns like that

Being AP makes sense

Considering Yamato has AP too

And considering the size of them

Being able to tear through a ship like butter

Makes sense

[clear gate]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Cannon

[steep scarab]

inb4 straight outta #history

[lone sinew]

800mm

[steep scarab]

[clear gate]

The Tsar Cannon is the world's largest cannon by caliber

and was actually fired at some point

[steep scarab]

papa restart will come see that you went #history

[lone sinew]

[steep scarab]

so cease before he comes

[stuck copper]

So I'll need to work on nepgun then

For my nep nep

[lone sinew]

AP laffey gun when

[clear gate]

Isn't the best AP DD gun that German one

[steep scarab]

the german 128mm twin

[clear gate]

IIRC it's actually a good secondary gun in some cases

[steep scarab]

Useless on DDs, a good secondary

on high FP ships

[stuck copper]

Tldr

It's good on BB's

[clear gate]

Kill suicide boats

[stuck copper]

Suicune botes

[lone sinew]

tmw yat sen can be like roon 24/7

[stuck copper]

Man have to say after reading Seattle

And seeing she can do dual CL guns

[lone sinew]

[clear gate]

Or dual AA guns if you want to meme

[stuck copper]

Big memes

[clear gate]

or really want some planes dead

[lone sinew]

[stuck copper]

Tbf though

[lone sinew]

wait

[clear gate]

Pair with Sandy

[lone sinew]

she can pick

[stuck copper]

She's probably better with dual CL guns

• Sandy

[lone sinew]

[stuck copper]

Yeah during her second LB

She can use dual CL guns

Don't forget

[tough burrow]

👏

[stuck copper]

She also gets MGM+1

[flat palm]

You did it restart kun

[tough burrow]

[stuck copper]

A friend of mine

[flat palm]

Now 2m time tomorrow

[clear gate]

So, 2 and a half main guns. Since efficiency on the second slot is bad as expected

[stuck copper]

Maxed out roon exp literally yesterday

I was like

[clear gate]

Still great

[stuck copper]

"How"

Tbf though Revy

When you're constantly firing dual CL guns

[steep scarab]

that's just the 1st part tho

[lone sinew]

I'm still at 18% for monarch

[stuck copper]

With twice as much FP as Yatsen does

[clear gate]

I know. Nobody cares about your third gun's efficiency at that point

[flat palm]

If you know restart, how much xp were you gaining for all your backline per run?

[stuck copper]

Not even including her buffs either

[flat palm]

as in all 3 together

[stuck copper]

Since she has like

[tough burrow]

[stuck copper]

A buff every time planes are shot down

[flat palm]

i wna do calcs ahead of my monarch

[stuck copper]

As well as one for when 15 are down

[tough burrow]

lemme think

[lone sinew]

tmw hoods barrage goes over sp black AI

[tough burrow]

Dunno exact number, but around 4k I think? Per fight

[flat palm]

hmm

[tough burrow]

Really guesstimating

[stuck copper]

27% exp atm

For neptune

Not gonna lie but god nep is so hard to get exp for

[clear gate]

I'm at 90% for Neptune

[stuck copper]

They have like

The worst frontline stuff to use

[cosmic pier]

in 9-4 atm on large nodes im getting like (rounded) 3k on mvp flag and 1k on the sidekicks

[flat palm]

so around 50 runs of 8-4 for 1m xp on monarch?

[cosmic pier]

[lone sinew]

I get around 3k exp per fight if bel doesn't steal mvp

[stuck copper]

Without the oil going up loads

[lone sinew]

[clear gate]

Good thing I invested in relatively cheap HMS cruisers

[steep scarab]

i usually do

[stuck copper]

The worst part about it though Revy

Is the fact the CA's

[steep scarab]

calculate total exp per run

[stuck copper]

Are the worst to use to boot

[clear gate]

Can't survive shit?

[stuck copper]

Light armour

[steep scarab]

all nodes + boss

then divide it from 1 mil or 2 mil

[stuck copper]

[steep scarab]

to get how many runs i need

[flat palm]

so my 44 oil fleet would cost 11k oil exactly for 1m xp on monarch

[clear gate]

I just use Suffolk with Beaver Badge and it works reasonably well

[tough burrow]

Ye, I'm doing SP4 and it's around 2.5k on MVP flag and ~850 on side

[clear gate]

Hasn't died yet

[stuck copper]

How many botes do you use though?

[tough burrow]

so bit more 4k

[flat palm]

i just did that fishy

[clear gate]

For the whole fleet or just the frontline, because obviously the frontline is 3

[flat palm]

roughly 47-49 runs of 8-4 or sp4

[stuck copper]

What frontline?

[flat palm]

for 1m xp on monarch

[lone sinew]

just use nanoda

[clear gate]

Leander Kai, Suffolk Kai, Ajax Kai

[stuck copper]

Ah

[lone sinew]

nanoda is immortal

[stuck copper]

Btw

I'd probably be on 3x the amount I am now

If I wasn't mostly running 1:1

[tough burrow]

I'm using CassinKai

[stuck copper]

[flat palm]

so monarch costs the same oil as 1m xp did on roon for me

but its alot faster

[clear gate]

Actually not a bad frontline cost. It only costs 27 oil to field this frontline

[flat palm]

like 20 runs faster lol

[stuck copper]

[steep scarab]

Full 3 vanguard (ibuki/kitakaze/azuma 2nd exp) theoretical max exp in SP4
This is assuming the vanguards are dorm'd

3752 Boss (assuming vanguard MVP)
3929 Mob (Vanguard CL MVP + Yuubari) = 16695
3339ish Mob (Vanguard CL MVP No Yuubari) = 19645

Theoretical Max (Vanguard CL w/ Yuubari) = 23397
Theoretical Max (Vanguard CL no Yuubari) = 20447

Total Runs (1st Exp Vanguard w/ Yuubari) = ~42-43 runs
Total Runs (1st Exp Vanguard no Yuubari) = ~49-50 runs

Multiply by two for both to get 2 mil runs

here

[clear gate]

Then you can pick your choice of backline depending on what you need

[stuck copper]

Sadly for me Revy

[flat palm]

well fishy

[stuck copper]

I don't have any leveled up enough

[clear gate]

Damn

[flat palm]

my monarch fleet is 44 oil

[stuck copper]

That aren't already limit broken

Or just not leveled

[flat palm]

and id be getting 4150 xp per fleet give or take

[stuck copper]

So it ends up expensive super fast for me

[steep scarab]

what map?

[flat palm]

8-4

[clear gate]

Well, I am farming in 11-4 so I'm going to be running pretty expensive whether I like it or not

I can optimize very hard on 11-4 but not with this kind of fleet

[tough burrow]

now back to leveling Gamer AI

[steep scarab]

4 mob + 1 boss = how many total exp?

[flat palm]

hmm

how much more xp is boss than mob?

roughly

[steep scarab]

total exp earned per run?

[tough burrow]

ah wait, she's 90 and I don't have gold to MLB her

[stuck copper]

Oh right I checked the tier list Restart

One funny thing I found

Gamer AI is at the same tier

[steep scarab]

@tough burrow 🍩

[stuck copper]

As Izumo

[flat palm]

20.750 xp roughly per 8-4 run fishy

[stuck copper]

When a PR bote is at the same tier as a free collab bote

Make izumo great again

[tough burrow]

are you comparing BB tiering to CA tiering?

[stuck copper]

Cough

[steep scarab]

about roughly 48-50 runs

give or take

[flat palm]

yeah thats what i came around to

48 runs and 10.8k oil

[tough burrow]

also you comparing PR to collab ship?

[flat palm]

for 1m xp on monarch

[clear gate]

I get (very, very roughly) 2-3% of the the 1 million needed when I do a run of 11-4

[dim crystal]

PR is collab ship