gameplay-help

[clever lance]

When you say story… you mean opsi? Or regular story

[tame jungle]

Opsi story ofcourse

Think you need to clear chapter 4 to unlock reset

[clever lance]

Oh.. no I don’t. So I guess I need to clear it the first time first before it starts resetting?

[tame jungle]

You got it

[clever lance]

What is even a chapter in opsi? Just seems like non ending tiles

[tame jungle]

Isn’t it in some missions tab

[brazen star]

it's the red !

go into any zone and click information

[clever lance]

Oh I’m on 3-5

Thanks

[dreamy blade]

so am i supposed to be using sandy as a main tank (w13)? asking bc i was looking at the ehp sheet

[sweet delta]

could

[dreamy blade]

my options are her portland or prinz heinrich

[sweet delta]

for two fleets?

[dreamy blade]

yeah

[sweet delta]

sandy is one, you will try it with unicorn as the only healer?

[dreamy blade]

well i dont have another healer unless juneau counts

and shouhou i guess but whenever i try to use her she feels trash

[mellow cape]

That's crazy not having unicorn at w13

[dreamy blade]

huh i have uni im saying i dont have another healer besides her

[mellow cape]

I can't read apparently

[edgy lantern]

wat armor ex

[spring bolt]

heavy

[pliant tiger]

is there any other tier list site like slaimuda? it is down

just wanna know which muse girls from the latest event are better than their OGs

[plain saffron]

It's up for me, and not really

[eternal moth]

Can confirm, ECTL is up and running

[clever lance]

When we are stuck in a puzzle in opsi is there a way to skip it

[eternal moth]

There aren't any muse girls in the current event

[spring bolt]

just do some random moves and tb will solve the puzzle for you

[cursive saffron]

Is it just me, why the dr blueprints in medal shop only for dr2-6

Is this a bug of some sort

[pliant tiger]

meant the latest muse event, the last one, wording confusion there, also, yeah, found I had visited the site directly, which sent error, found it does work.

[wind hazel]

no DR for PR1, and PR7 is very recently added so there's some time before it gets added

[eternal moth]

Because there are no DR1 ships

[wind hazel]

think of it as way that dev wants to tell you "hey we wanna make it easy for you, but not too easy" for DR development

[cursive saffron]

Hwat but the last month got dr7 iirc

[wind hazel]

i dont think we had any PR7 blanks last month

unless im schizoing

[eternal moth]

Medal shop hasn't been updated yet AFAIK

[spring bolt]

you remembered incorrectly, dr7 prints aren't in proto shop

[cursive saffron]

[eternal moth]

You might have been thinking of an event shop or something, IDK

[viscid swift]

They haven't

And I wouldn't expect them to until January or February at the earliest

[wind hazel]

2 Kasumi too cheeky

[karmic pebble]

is nagato meta good?

[spring bolt]

good gold bb but that's about it

[cobalt rapids]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13YbPw3dM2eN6hr3YfVABIK9LVuCWnVZF0Zp2BGOZXc0/edit?gid=0#gid=0

[sweet delta]

Noshiro mu is better than noshiro and used in endgame. The rest idk but they aren't relevant anyways

[junior walrus]

So this wasn’t intentional but I have 3 out of 4 SRs, is it worth going for the other at this point???

[cobalt rapids]

only if u care about the ship

they wont end up in endgame teams

[upbeat helm]

Man help, I've been stuck in the lobby, I can't tap on menus, and my event tap overlaps with my lobby

[wind hazel]

restart your game

[upbeat helm]

Did multiple timeeeees, also have have tried repair asset and nothing change

[wind hazel]

nani

[upbeat helm]

It's blank

[wind hazel]

reinstall the game last resort

[zinc cave]

Did you close the app entirely

[upbeat helm]

I did unistall it like 3 times, mf took 13 gb of my internet

[crystal flume]

try using vpn.. and make sure to enable storage usage on app setting

[sinful escarp]

would laffey2 be better in mob or boss fleet in w15??

[cobalt rapids]

mob

[south sequoia]

At this point you should resort to #tech-support

mention your issues and all the solutions you've done

[humble iris]

Should I build Guam

[cobalt rapids]

needs more context

[humble iris]

Should I build Guam to replace sanfran

[cobalt rapids]

wdym by build ? limit break her ?
how many UR bulins do u have ? do you have other UR ships that need mlb ?

[humble iris]

sorry, I mixed up genshin terms w al

but should I use Guam over San fran

[cobalt rapids]

yes if she is max limit break

actually >=lb2 over sanfran

[humble iris]

what's lb2

[cobalt rapids]

limit break 2

aka she has 5 stars

[terse dune]

is there a world where i take out independace and put in fdg? or is 2 bbs a bad idea for mob clearing

[humble iris]

And another thing

What does mainz do?

[cobalt rapids]

average selfish dps with decent bulk

[cobalt rapids]

if you cover acv and stagger

[terse dune]

its either that or taking my amagi bb out on my boss fleet and putting fdg there

[south sequoia]

the world is replacing uvh instead

[storm heron]

yes just replace amagi bb

[terse dune]

would ulrich or fdg be better on mob and fleet?

[south sequoia]

fdg mob then replace amagi bb with ulrich on boss

[terse dune]

ok will do

[humble iris]

Is Guam a mob or boss

[cobalt rapids]

both

[spring bolt]

New bug: you can manual in PVP with new cruise pass UI

[jaunty vault]

nice

[humble iris]

r any of the new ships good

[rapid grail]

wtf how? No auto???

[cobalt rapids]

average to higher than average event golds

[sweet delta]

buy the cruise pass now to find out! limited time only!

[barren tapir]

high end event golds imo

[topaz smelt]

hey guys, why do you think michita is a usable ship

[cobalt rapids]

big pp dmg when she works

[storm heron]

surely nobody gonna fall for this surely right

[tropic tusk]

Why can't I buy her? I even tried re logging

[cobalt rapids]

its bugged rn

[storm heron]

the lord of ectl has descended

[tropic tusk]

Oh it's bugged thx

[topaz smelt]

but in what conditions does she work? cuz stupid shit like ranger is big pp when she works too

[cobalt rapids]

when theres an initial vang pressure that goes down afterwards like in qem

[topaz smelt]

so purely non progressional content

[spring bolt]

【大月卡新ui外观出bug了，演习可以手操了-哔哩哔哩】 https://b23.tv/4E7IAHT

[topaz smelt]

i still dont see why shes good nor why ppl complain about her being tn

[cobalt rapids]

coz its too harsh imo

[topaz smelt]

a ship that actively kills herself while providing no utility?

[storm heron]

[topaz smelt]

im pretty sure shes still bugged to commit suicide

[cobalt rapids]

i mean no utility is every selfish dps

[south sequoia]

yeah but unlike other selfish dps they don't self destruct

neither do they have to bring down others with them

[topaz smelt]

selfish dps isnt useful when you dont make it to 0 ammo

[cobalt rapids]

i mean i wouldnt use her in campaign but i wouldnt use aurora in campaign either doesnt make her tn

[topaz smelt]

and i dont think shes living thru non trivial boss fights without heavy support

[storm heron]

waiting for ender to come support umi

[topaz smelt]

well look at the potential between aurora and michita i dont think they can be placed on the same scale

[cobalt rapids]

well no but just as an analogy

[topaz smelt]

sure aurora doesnt have a great spot in campaign but when properly utilized shes very strong

idek how you would properly utilize michita

[storm heron]

riceist made a good argument about michita being extremely niche to be rated higher tier

[cobalt rapids]

i just think rating her TN is very dismissive of her potential

[zinc cave]

TN is probably the best rating for the average player

[topaz smelt]

her potential is what hindy levels of damage if she procs?

[zinc cave]

more or less

[topaz smelt]

so theres the underlying condition that she needs to proc, while not procing early to have gun dps

[zinc cave]

probably works fine for midgame content, idk if anyone has done stress tests for late game/bossing

[topaz smelt]

so you either require some sort of minor sustain which allows her to proc, or a fight with just enough vg pressure

you see the issues with these conditions?

theyre just unrealistic to any content

[barren tapir]

ranger is t4

i feel michita at least t5 cos going by ectl guidelines any tiered ship demonstrates some kind of use, which she does even tho it's niche

[quartz jungle]

Yeah to be used properly it needs targeted heal like Volga/Alsace/Aquila to keep up the heslth but at a low level through fights

[storm heron]

for the plaintiff, do you have any other use case for michita that warrants a similar performance to other non-tn ships?

[topaz smelt]

how do you control the healing to keep her low? why lose damage to keep a vg ship alive when it could have been more damage or more utility? that heal could have gone elsewhere for consistency

[barren tapir]

tbh, "better damage potential than any other tn ship" should be an argument for t5 at least?

[zinc cave]

For reference, Shropshire Retrofit is in Tier 3.

[storm heron]

rejected

[spring bolt]

in my experience, the issue is not controlling the heal but not enough heal
got triple healer for her in last CM and she lasted about 5 min

[south sequoia]

I find it hard to slot in wichita over someone like eugen

incredibly low bar

[barren tapir]

counterpoint: aurora can be argued to be tiered around specific type of fights, it's even mentioned in her details

[topaz smelt]

only way i can see her being more useful than tn is in low enough boss content where she wont die, but is that even a positive point for the ship

[coarse heron]

How many man hours has ALO spent over the years arguing about the tier list

[south sequoia]

if you were to compare michita over the cas in tier 5 you'll find it even harder to place her even in there

[barren tapir]

specific ships in their fleet also exists, arguably, as pairing requirement tiering thingy.

[storm heron]

not as much as the hours that ectl spent

[topaz smelt]

its like everything low tier is ass but they dont self destruct

[barren tapir]

well id argue eugen isnt t5

[topaz smelt]

eugen has a use case just sucks ass in campaign

[coarse heron]

Eugen is Bait Tier, because new players see Unbreakable Shield and think that makes her good

[storm heron]

nevermind my brainfart

[quartz jungle]

True, it's mainly due to Wichita Meta's mechhanics that make the AoA lose HP even under 50%

[south sequoia]

I'd also like to mention

ectl tiers around autoing yes?

[barren tapir]

eugen is like rated low on purpose so new players wont use her

her bulk is well beyond portland's and neither of them have good dmg for actual content, so t5 absolutely feels harsh unless accounting for "low investment" bias

[south sequoia]

I do agree for eugen being placed a bit higher though

[quartz jungle]

I'n pretty sure Portland deals like 50% more damage than Eugen

[barren tapir]

50% of 0 is still 0

[topaz smelt]

eugen gets fixed on ca overhaul where we kick off t4+5 and keep eugen in 5

[barren tapir]

portland doing more dmg than eugen is a factor but so should eugen tanking 23% more kek

[storm heron]

there was an argument that eugen tank tagged should be higher than portland before, lemme find what made it rejected

[topaz smelt]

what ppl dont understand is vg damage is utility for mobbing

killing an extra prod helps targeting

[barren tapir]

and like portlands dmg is baseline, its not impressive at all, eugen has 0 dmg but you'd not pick either of them for anything resembling good vg dmg so i think portland's higher dmg is overvalued

[quartz jungle]

Portland's damage is not TN right? It's like about T4

[south sequoia]

going back to this, michita heavily relies on manualling for her damage

[barren tapir]

by that logic, eugen has t1 bulk and tn damage and belongs in t3-t4 as a result

[spring bolt]

to stir the shit: anchor dps is lower than portland on paper

[topaz smelt]

bulk and damage arent weighed equal

[storm heron]

yup, else her having good damage per battle is just decided on the mercy of the battle's damage distribution over time

[barren tapir]

well that's fine cos anchorage is 55% more bulk which dumpsters eugen

[topaz smelt]

too much bulk is worth as much as just enough bulk

[real jasper]

I reach 55k event point now, so what to do with the rest of the oil?

[storm heron]

up to you, you can farm 12-4 or go event T5 to get more shop items like gear skin if you want to

[real jasper]

I havent reach chapter 9 yet so the t5 node still is the best for gold farming for me sadly

[barren tapir]

then stay on t5 imo. you can push campaign in the upcoming dead week

[storm heron]

I believe for gold campaign is better

[zinc cave]

Just do T5 until the event is over, then push to Ch9

[barren tapir]

progressing campaign eats a shit ton of oil making it less efficient than t5 when unlocking clearing modes

[storm heron]

so what, you have to progress now or later

[coarse heron]

farming T5 is better anyway unless you've already cleared the shop

[barren tapir]

so progress later when a better option for your current oil ceases to exist

[storm heron]

or do thay have any opportunity cost like wanting to roll the event ships?

rip cog chips btw

[spring bolt]

just over level your ships on t5 and push with 1:1 fleet to save oil

[barren tapir]

i mean t5 is 1% less efficient than 11-1 exp
has purple plate (good for newbie)
has limited gearskins
has good gear for newbie (roomba and toolkit)

[real jasper]

I thought t5 have oil limit?

[barren tapir]

(which would be pushing after in dead week like i said, fybre)

[real jasper]

oil : gold ratio is 1:3.5 or more, are the later map better at this?

[barren tapir]

yes

[storm heron]

ofc, 12-4 is 1:6.8

[barren tapir]

it depends if you value what i listed or better coins more which is a personal decision, i disagree w/ gph that coin is always better

[spring bolt]

t5 oil/gold ratio is slightly better than 9-1 but worse than any later maps

[real jasper]

Maybe shop item is a bonus, which make them even

[storm heron]

welp can't call coins and augment materials even unless I know how much you have tbh

[real jasper]

I'm just started the game 2 weeks ago

[barren tapir]

its down to player preference based on what you value more, exp/plates/shop/skins vs coin/cogs

[spring bolt]

i mean, what's more important about t5 is the cheap cmdr level exp... my EN account is capped by it for a week and i am still lv72, need lv80 for ch 12

[storm heron]

good point

[barren tapir]

as an additional bonus, t5 is the best available oil stage for commander exp until you reach level 95

[real jasper]

ty, so I will keep farming t5, it seems the best for me atm

hope that no more momo drop lol, I MLB her already

[barren tapir]

and one can argue speedrunning to lvl100 to unlock the superior cog daily is more cogs in the long run than progressing to ch12 during an event

[spring bolt]

the best way is to c1 farming but 2 accounts doing c1? i would rather die...

[topaz smelt]

also whats the reason for reccing newbs pr5 focus

[zinc cave]

huh, where?

[topaz smelt]

ive heard ppl say youre reccing pr5 now

[zinc cave]

[wind hazel]

they are banking on the upcoming coinable DR4 update

[atomic abyss]

Sam certainly has

[topaz smelt]

i still dont see why tho

[storm heron]

Based on Sam's recommendation for newbies

[wind hazel]

im still on pr4 camp because of gear

[atomic abyss]

And frankly given it's December I would agree too

[topaz smelt]

youre just stuck for like 5 more months without opsi fleets

[barren tapir]

im in the 'both 4 and 5 good options'

[topaz smelt]

i see nothing useful in 5 besides ply

[storm heron]

5 months of coinng

[wind hazel]

get ships and having shit gear lul

[topaz smelt]

ig brest is decent for a tank

[real jasper]

The auxi is good I think, and the gold anti-air

[storm heron]

no saiuns, only 1 tenrai

[barren tapir]

[topaz smelt]

the only argument i know is more efficient bps but thats terrible considering how much you lose

[cobalt rapids]

brest <> aegir for all intents and purposes
ancho is rdy right out of the box with catchup and coining anyway
for gear they just need better protocore minmax
long term its better to catchup on seasons than staying on an archived season

[humble iris]

How to beat TTL5

[atomic abyss]

And you can just gear lab your BF-109Gs

[zinc cave]

first of all, what are you short on, damage? survivability?

[humble iris]

Survivability

[topaz smelt]

you realize that every pr4 gear is gonna take ords

[cobalt rapids]

u only need to gearlab 1-2 bf at most

[real jasper]

U got unicorn retro yet?

[humble iris]

Yes

[barren tapir]

(also protocore ig)

[topaz smelt]

when was the last time youve only used 2 bf

[atomic abyss]

And saiuns aren't critical

[humble iris]

Still dying with her 😭

[barren tapir]

can protocore 1, gear lab 2?

[topaz smelt]

for newbs without rld tech they help a fuck ton

[cobalt rapids]

u get the other 1-2 from protocores

[atomic abyss]

Why would newbies even need rld tech?
What is the CV even syncing with besides each other

[topaz smelt]

and grab champyguns from gear lab?

[zinc cave]

what does ur set up look like

[topaz smelt]

which also costs ords

[cobalt rapids]

from protocore aswell
thats why i said better protocore management

[barren tapir]

how many months are we talking because if you oath a ship you can access a lot of protocore from newbie missions

[topaz smelt]

not every newb is gonna minmax protocore and you shouldnt assume so

[atomic abyss]

Rice, by that argument any form of min maxing is meaningless

[barren tapir]

isnt going pr4 by definition minmaxing

[wind hazel]

let anchorage tank

[barren tapir]

and i think if someone asks here, "which season should i focus" they can also be told how to minmax protocore

[topaz smelt]

no reccing pr4 is progressional advice

[storm heron]

meanwhile I don't even know the general rule to minmax protocore, and only know case per case

[humble iris]

I'm still dying tho i

[barren tapir]

move ancho to left

[atomic abyss]

Well in any case you're convincing the wrong people

Unless you convince Sam to change his guide it's kinda meaningless

[topaz smelt]

im the one who writes the guide so i dont need convincing

[real jasper]

I used lala as tank and she did fine at t5

[wind hazel]

use 2 other BB with Zwei

[atomic abyss]

Because we're gonna recommend Sam's guide anyways

[barren tapir]

what dev is ancho, dev25+ shouldnt die i dont think

[humble iris]

This team too

[topaz smelt]

its already been written, sam just needs to update

[real jasper]

After it become safe, I use portland and she can do find too

[zinc cave]

Why are we putting tanks in the 3rd position

[barren tapir]

well that team's worse purely off levels. the boss is 125

[storm heron]

what is this?

[humble iris]

I accidentally put em there but I remember to place them to the left

[atomic abyss]

Sam changed it to PR5 recommendation since July...

So have fun convincing him lol

[barren tapir]

try ancho/helena/guam with zwei indep sara

assuming they actually are mlb

[atomic abyss]

In the first place, why are you even back here

[humble iris]

They r

[topaz smelt]

scroll up

[cobalt rapids]

short term
if a newbie wants to catchup on season theyll have to take some Ls here and there and not focus archived seasons or theyll be like 2 years behind
some level of minmaxing has to be assumed
converting combat data packs is already minmaxing advice

[storm heron]

where were ender when michita discussion

[barren tapir]

which is why i said pr4 vs pr5 is preference

[zinc cave]

do you have any other high level battle ships or cvs?

[barren tapir]

pr4 is good for early gear
pr5 is better if you want to try catching up sooner

[topaz smelt]

the whole point of doing pr4 is for opsi fleets, which you delay by like 5 months if you pr5 focus

i still dont see what you even get from doing pr5, ply and shitty gear?

[barren tapir]

opsi fleets for what, harby?

is harby that important to prioritize its rewards dont seem super big

[real jasper]

I cleared that map at level 90 fleet I think, so that may due to lala more tanky or musashi too broken then

[cobalt rapids]

i think this hyperfocuses on harby

[barren tapir]

because im doing everything else in opsi just fine with 2.5 month old garbage fleets

[atomic abyss]

Oh this?

Please her DPS is capable of almost matching Unzen and Hinden

The only issue is fragility
Which is countered by using Eldridge

Unless you're telling me she is worse than literally 80% of the other heavy cruisers in the game just because she can't live

[storm heron]

eHp for better context

[barren tapir]

cant even say meta fight bc you can pretty easily rely on other ppl to carry you with support if you don't wanna spend oil, which is what i did xd

[atomic abyss]

I have used michita on a lot of meta fights lol
And she has been extremely useful

[cobalt rapids]

well eventually progression should consider meta showdowns aswell

[barren tapir]

well her instantly dying is definitely a demerit but yeah her dmg deserves a higher ranking 100%

[barren tapir]

eventually but it's never required, that's if you want to progress to be able to oneshot metas

[atomic abyss]

And if your argument is that meta showdown is "non progressional content"

Then maybe make it clear that your tiers are based on campaign performance only

[barren tapir]

personally i dont care about it, for those that do perhaps pr4 is better, which is why i say...preference based on goals

[atomic abyss]

And even then, low end campaign

[thick venture]

Do I need to invest in volga

[atomic abyss]

I would invest in Volga if you lack Aquila

[barren tapir]

volga is a good ship but if you have aquila she is better iirc

[quartz jungle]

https://youtu.be/-F8Ryjq9mTg?si=r_Nb6p6_8XynfelK

Idk myself, Jimmy talks about Michita at 18:30

[real jasper]

wait, with this you are talking about the event normal node or the challenge node?

[cobalt rapids]

i mean yes its up to preference but just like some people skip on pushing campaign above w12 it should still be considered in a guide

[atomic abyss]

and for the love of god remove this outdated as fuck new player guide that i've been telling you about for the last 6 months

[cobalt rapids]

saying that im in the pr5 boat for the reasons i alr mentioned

[humble iris]

The challenge

[fallow sedge]

I got yuudachi by luck
So how good is her retro

[barren tapir]

yes and that's fair but idk if focusing pr4 vs pr5 makes a significant difference when oneshotting metas takes a lot of progression either way (at least from what i can tell). the difference could be made up via protocore

[real jasper]

oh lol. that Yami hit hard like hell, I dont know how to survive her too

[atomic abyss]

good
not worth the specialised core needed for her retro item tho

[humble iris]

It's quite good, I use her in my team and she's massacred everything

[gilded carbon]

How well does the Shimano-gun Work as a secondary gun for BB/BCs

[barren tapir]

good enough if you like her, otherwise skip due to the specialized core requirement

[atomic abyss]

poorly
just stick to the og triple 155s at that point

[gilded carbon]

Done, thx

[barren tapir]

strictly speaking, she is quite a good ship, it's just that costing half an UR bulin is bad for a newbie.

[cobalt rapids]

the difference is that longterm u wouldve caught up earlier
ply is also a keyship in many meta showdowns
but yes im not recommending a guide to focus on metashowdown oneshots lul

[thick venture]

I have 530 cubes should I try getting aquila

[barren tapir]

[atomic abyss]

absolutely not, save it for WW if you really want her

[barren tapir]

dont bother without wishing well and sufficient cube cushion

[fallow sedge]

Well I have her retro item for some reason I don't remember buying it so I prob somehow got it

[thick venture]

Alright

[barren tapir]

sufficient being 1000+

[storm heron]

I spent 30 cubes. But realistically you shouldn't since the chance very low

[zinc cave]

Richelieu(Flag)/Bismarck Zwei/Enterprise - Anchorage(Tank)/Helena/Guam
We'll have to test things out a bit. Try this set up. Make sure Richelieu and Bismarck are geared to fire in sync properly.

[quartz jungle]

Wishing well is like end of this month right?

[atomic abyss]

well if you wanna spend the coins sure

but i personally dont use yuudachi anymore

[barren tapir]

no, may/june i think

[thick venture]

That's a long time
Oh well volga it is

Where do I use her in

[humble iris]

Thank you but I just barely survived with my ancho clutching at 1 hp

[atomic abyss]

next one shd be like CN anni yeah unless we get surprised

[barren tapir]

well if you have her item she is pretty good i kinda tossed her aside for nana tho lmfao

[zinc cave]

Ah, nice going then

[barren tapir]

or at least put a big disclaimer that it's outdated and only kept for archival purposes (hey, it's a fun read, and the info on chapter bosses and mechanics is reasonably helpful)

[storm heron]

there isn't even last updated date

[atomic abyss]

im not saying there's anything wrong with quitting the game etc
but you at least have a responsibility to your readers to inform them

[zenith heron]

is Jeanne a good alternative to Eldridge Retro in contents like W13 for mob fleet? (doing this fleet for a friend)

[storm heron]

just use someone else at that point no?

[pallid vortex]

How do you hit 2.4k trp for 12-4 hard?

[atomic abyss]

jda is more for keeping boss fleets just that bit more tankier

[topaz smelt]

wheres my view of this, what am i missing

you focus pr5,
you get ply in 2-3 months
youll get brest in 2-3 months
you coin anch in 1.5 months
you coin avp in 1.5 months
-- by 3 months you have half a cv fleet still shit gear --
you coin haku in 2 months
you coin agir in 2 months
this is looking like a 7 month timeline to have decent fleets, while having shit gear or no resources to craft farther gear

you focus pr4
you get pr4 dont in 2-3 months
you have gear, ords and electronics
you now work on pr of choice

[atomic abyss]

stacking destroyers
IJN ones

[pallid vortex]

Won't you need a tank? Like agir or anchorage

[atomic abyss]

ofc you will
so you stack them on the mob fleet instead

or in general, cut down on using US ships without torps if you cant hit the torp req

[thick venture]

Wait we can coin haku and agir??

[atomic abyss]

not yet at least

[thick venture]

Oh okay

[atomic abyss]

like i said, go convince sam

[topaz smelt]

sam takes advice of the dumbasses here is the issue

[pallid vortex]

Sorry what do you mean by US ships

[atomic abyss]

you're talking to a brick wall, rice

which is how we feel when talking to you about how damn outdated your own guide is

[topaz smelt]

then why are you using my guides

stop linking it then

[boreal wagon]

if sam was taking advice from here it wouldnt still say pr5 and the +13 prio would have changed long ago

[atomic abyss]

i've been telling him otherwise since july

[zinc cave]

Avoid low TRP shipgirls, Eagle Union (USS) ships usually have low TRP

[storm heron]

🍿

[topaz smelt]

then whos reccing pr5?

[atomic abyss]

ships that are from eagle union

[boreal wagon]

sam himself

[atomic abyss]

sam himself has

[topaz smelt]

huh

who the fk is the dumbass sam is following

[atomic abyss]

oh? can i take this as confirmation that your team has no intention of updating ECTL anymore?

[pallid vortex]

I'll give it a shot. Thank you for the help

[topaz smelt]

you realize i wrote newb tips

[atomic abyss]

^

[topaz smelt]

which was initially meant to supplement ectl guide and i got lazy

[atomic abyss]

and i cant blame you for being lazy/getting burnt out

the least you can do is put a disclaimer and where they can look to find updated advice

that's all

the fact is people do refer to it because it comes conveniently attached with the tierlist

[cobalt rapids]

anchorage is done right out of the gate coz catchup
avp 1.5 months after
ply, brest yes
harbin could be helpful aswell and in ~2months
coin haku and leave aegir but haku is prob after fdg regardless
so

in 3 months you would have alr 2 bf + 1 from gearlab so that mostly covers the gear from pr4
pasta aa? use roombas and bofors
aegir gun ? use brest gun till then
2nd tenrai wouldnt be ready either way till u finish pr4, surely u can get craft that in the same amount of time in opsi
the positive part is that after ~3months give or take ure done with both seasons and not with 1
basically sacc harby optimization for 3 months for 3 months of progress longterm so minimal loss

[topaz smelt]

trust me theres been attempts to revamp it but ppl lose motivation cuz of the shitty community and lack of support

[barren tapir]

delaying anchorage with coins means more protocore is that factored in

[boreal wagon]

ender isnt asking you to revamp it he is asking you to put a disclaimer that says its outdated

which is the least you could and should do

[atomic abyss]

my goal here is to try to provide the people that come here with consistent and updated advice

[topaz smelt]

which is entirely fair

[cobalt rapids]

if ure minmaxing protocores in season 1-3 u dont need ancho
and getting ancho rdy asap is very usefull

[barren tapir]

fair

[topaz smelt]

but why even get fdg at that point

just grab izumo and be happy with it

[cobalt rapids]

dock dependant but yes

[topaz smelt]

the whole point of fdg was to unlock avp + agir

and do you even have enough faction tech for pr5?

i rmbr it was cancer when i was trying to map it

[cobalt rapids]

faction tech is an issue but ure grabbing blueprints in the meantime anyway

since they dont have coining ure rushing to build em at ~d25+ not right away

so u still build focus pr4 first

[topaz smelt]

this was the roadmap for ply way back, dunno if theres more options now but its still a fuck ton of mlbs

[cobalt rapids]

also avp takes less tech than fdg

[barren tapir]

can confirm, ply unlock is a bitch

[spring bolt]

as a "new" player all i care is how the fk do i get to cmdr lv80 without doing c1 farming

[cobalt rapids]

hms tech does look painfull

[topaz smelt]

idk if its even reasonable to get that many bulins, youll need some hms event to run

[barren tapir]

reason why i currently have no bulins

[spring bolt]

add lv120 tech too as leveling to 120 isn't a big deal now

[cobalt rapids]

i think maybe add some lv120 obvious ones like uni aswell

[barren tapir]

my best estimate is i might hit ply tech by the very end of december if i only mlb hms ships and get some to 120

[topaz smelt]

youd at most be able to drop monarch mlb off

which prob shouldnt be there anymore

[barren tapir]

i def wouldnt recommend rushing ply because it is annoying

[storm heron]

I think the conclusion now is that research focus pr4 and pr5 takes about the same time, and the difference is negligible on the average level of optimization a player can do

[barren tapir]

you could do cheshire mlb ig

[storm heron]

i say we do a yelling contest

[cobalt rapids]

chesh mlb is fine yea
but
usually its pr1 ship > anchorage > avp
so shes like 6 months off mlb
ig faster if u drop ur pr1 ship and u rushed ancho

[barren tapir]

monarch mlb is ok for the sake of single pr1 for protocore tbh

[topaz smelt]

i just dont see it worth it from gear alone

[barren tapir]

well yeah, pr4 is clearly the gear winner

[storm heron]

i think new player should definitely start grinding sanrui as pr1 given the guide

[whole crypt]

it was always a tad behind USS and IJN back then, was a real mess before noctis even

[barren tapir]

for what purpose

[topaz smelt]

doing pr 5 means core spending becomes something like
2 champyguns, a bunch of rockets, some saiuns at some point

[whole crypt]

the only thing saint louis dev is good for is being easy with starter fleet

[barren tapir]

hms tech is the reason why in hindsight im happy i picked up hood full circle

[atomic abyss]

i mean dfg was proposing tirp over hood in medal shop because of IB tech

[storm heron]

or maybe starting cdc ship is random since medal randomness and random event start

[barren tapir]

i did neptune without too much trouble

[barren tapir]

yeah that is also very valid cos divergent is ass

i ended up having to low cost it because even oilcap was getting way too expensive for a single ship

took the equivalent of 80 runs for scharnhorst to drop, you can do the math if i had stayed with whatever D map oil was (250ish?)

[whole crypt]

neptune wasn't hard, it's just the only HMS vanguard you'd really use nowadays early on is Javelin if she's your starter

[topaz smelt]

usually you want to do dc during the level gate at w8

cant follow that if you buy cmdr

[barren tapir]

i didnt have a level gate since i joined during 2x exp event

[whole crypt]

level gates up to unlocking ch9 is best time to burn archive yeh

[barren tapir]

since it was the start of amagi event, i got to d1 before it ended and then speedran from ch4 to ch10

[whole crypt]

if you zoomed past it with bonus event or just event farming while ignoring campaign then meh

[topaz smelt]

just grabbing tirp is fairly reasonable as well since it allows you to drop some mlbs

[barren tapir]

yeah i think i uhh got sirius from medal and used her, forgot who else though

maybe leander

[storm heron]

imagine raising a non tech ship smh

[barren tapir]

as for hood vs tirp i got hood as she was the main recommendation i heard

[topaz smelt]

idk how youre gonna get enough ords for all the gear in a reasonable time tho if you skip pr4

[storm heron]

again, the solution is either to conclude this, or have someone do a resource calculation to achieve an optimized research focus that's gonna be less relevant in half a year

[whole crypt]

PR4 still best way to start research honestly, ships and gear still very relevant

[topaz smelt]

my current estimates are 16 ords/mo, and currently you need 43 for basic reccs not counting t3 ords

[barren tapir]

probably worth noting that also, most ppl are gonna go "which do i focus" be told either 4 or 5 without very detailed instruction on how to minmax either option, and just yolo it largely on their own from there

meaning the minutiae of each progression path is unlikely to be maximized

[topaz smelt]

if you were to grab all the pr4 gear from gear lab youre very likely doubling that

[whole crypt]

we can go into detail but most of it doesn't matter before you can coin farm

[barren tapir]

so we can math out the most optimal path but unless it is explained fully in a guide somewhere i don't think people will know how to do it

most ppl dont know/dont do protocore minmax either

[topaz smelt]

wait how important is getting ply anyways

[whole crypt]

eh, good but not top priority honestly

[cobalt rapids]

i mean pretty important
great in campaign, great in opsi, great in showdowns

[topaz smelt]

like why even recc pr5 when you can just recc like pr6

[cobalt rapids]

pr6
i would skip from 5 to 7 directly

[barren tapir]

pr6 shimanto catchup soon

[topaz smelt]

tbh shimanto is a good pickup

[cobalt rapids]

yea but its just her

[topaz smelt]

idk the gear just overall sucks

[barren tapir]

and you can always backtrack after pr7 for hinden and kear if you want

[cobalt rapids]

yea ideally when season 6 golds are coinable so u can spend less time there

[barren tapir]

could also use general prints on pr6 since you'd prefer sitting on pr7 (?)

[whole crypt]

I'd say start with 4 then decide next step based on roster

[cobalt rapids]

i think thats sensible

[topaz smelt]

but its like you have ply but what bbs do you have

[cobalt rapids]

~~random rainbow bb that are every 2 months now ~~

[barren tapir]

fdg?

fdg is stll commonly recommended

[whole crypt]

by the time you have a serviceable Plymouth it's possible to have a decent rainbow BB

[topaz smelt]

i dont think anyones beating a meta fight with fdg nj

the entire argument falls thru cuz you need max rld tech for any bb meta comp

[barren tapir]

what is a reasonable timeline of progression to oneshot metas anyway?

[topaz smelt]

depends on what you have

[whole crypt]

depends on gimmick

[cobalt rapids]

wildy differs on showdown difficulty, the banners you got and your playstyle

[barren tapir]

then is it really important?

[topaz smelt]

3cv fights are fairly easy

[whole crypt]

it isn't

arb is more important

[topaz smelt]

again with what bbs

[cobalt rapids]

arby is just get 2-3 fleets pummel and heal, rinse and reapt

[barren tapir]

narb or harb too? how much should i be caring about harby progression

[topaz smelt]

less requirements on tech but still no bbs

[storm heron]

cheeky what do you say

[topaz smelt]

narb is free, you just dock cheese

[bold cove]

When to stop focus on PR5 and move on?

[slow fox]

I miss the days when had the least eHP

[spring bolt]

tbh after 15 days of playing the new account, i won't be caring about one shotting meta at all... not even 2 shot kill

[storm heron]

I think boss progression target should be c6 healing abyssal

[whole crypt]

harb of course

[cobalt rapids]

narb is free
harb is usually the next aim for progression before w13 push

[barren tapir]

fuck those

[topaz smelt]

a newb is looking for looking abyssals and strongholds

[barren tapir]

definitely the hardest boss that's actually important for newbies to beat

[topaz smelt]

harb is minor gains compared to those

[cobalt rapids]

i think those coincide

[whole crypt]

regen abyssals are not that bad, regen plus shield is

[storm heron]

ngl though, my friend wolfcybre who's on little E, they always get the healing abyssal, good thing they use shimakaze so they can manual torp

[barren tapir]

both are but yeah shield is extra toxic

[cobalt rapids]

if ure improving for harby ull naturally defeat c6 either way

[bold cove]

Oh and does stronghold disappear if not clear it?

[whole crypt]

map wipe each month

[barren tapir]

good thing i have budget shima now

[cobalt rapids]

only if u leave em till next month

[storm heron]

seriously, beyond that is just flex and over optimization

[atomic abyss]

the only thing it does is stop new strongholds from spawning

[topaz smelt]

newbs arent gonna kill harb til atleast their 2/3rd reset

[atomic abyss]

but you can just go in and go out multiple times for strongholds so

[bold cove]

Ah okay, just leave it there till tuning points reach over 150

[barren tapir]

yeah oneshot meta and doing harby is like, if you want to. there isnt any necessary reward or progression locked behind doing so, so it's really player dependent to me

[cobalt rapids]

harby is definetly having rewards locked wdym

[topaz smelt]

4 fleet harby is something newbs will struggle with

[barren tapir]

ofc i'd like to eventually do harby but it's not a high priority at all for me

[topaz smelt]

same with abyssals for early newbs

[atomic abyss]

and this assumes new players even touch opsi

[cobalt rapids]

but theres no other reneweble rewards besides harby if ure done with other opsi stuff and ure at w12

[bold cove]

Do i need to change focus from pr5 to pr7 after i get ply gun?

[dreamy blade]

the big chunk of rewards is from clearing narb

[whole crypt]

healing abyssals are fairly easy to nuke with CVs if you don't mind a bit of manual

[barren tapir]

eh in that case we shud care about EX also since that gives cog chips, another good reward

didnt see anyone mention that

[topaz smelt]

with what cvs

[cobalt rapids]

after you finish the DR at 30 and u have 1 -2 plyguns in depot sure

[topaz smelt]

and what cv gear

[storm heron]

what

[atomic abyss]

save up all your airstrikes

[cobalt rapids]

well that most definetly you should
but also EXs now come in easy modo

[barren tapir]

are we talking month 1 or month 2?

month 2 yes, month 1 was brutal

[atomic abyss]

so you launch 6 of them at once

[whole crypt]

any decent CV boss comp, just hold airstrikes and drop it all through 30 bars

[storm heron]

ark royal, sara, enty

[whole crypt]

regen is a 5% tick after breaking 30

[barren tapir]

definitely can work but i was also way too weak to drop 30 bars at once in month 1

i was doing like 35 bars maybe per total fight

[storm heron]

avp is beyond reach

[topaz smelt]

realistically newbs are gonna save up the strike and the boss is gonna be at 50%

[bold cove]

Thats mean using blueprints and coins till DR 30? Cuz i assume that will be faster and then move on?

[whole crypt]

well month 1 sure

[barren tapir]

but yes month 2 absolutely, i did fine

[cobalt rapids]

blueprints
you cannot coin PR5

[whole crypt]

most people don't even go into OS with a boss fleet given the unlock level

[topaz smelt]

also is it even enough to kill it with poverty gear and half assed fleets

[storm heron]

dfqsb what is your pr focus?, do you plan on using catchup on avp or are you raising ark first

[barren tapir]

i delayed on opsi a bit due to feeling overwhelmed with learning everything entered later than i should (about commander 85? 2 weeks after amagi event) so i definitely wasnt doing c6 heals in month 1. i managed c4, not sure if i did c5, bb ones in general were rough i remember that.

[bold cove]

Wow 😨, so research priority is Gold on specific DR and Gold generally

[whole crypt]

it'll be added eventually

[topaz smelt]

is the entire pr5 argument just ply?

[cobalt rapids]

if you mean projects then u can follow this https://samheart564.github.io/ECGC/research#research_project_priority

not at all

[topaz smelt]

or am i delusional cuz its late

[spring bolt]

well i was able to clear all explorable and hidden up to c5, abyssal up to c4 last month with a 15 day account, with 1 fleet...
but probably cuz i got musa

[barren tapir]

harbin is a good ship i suppose

[cobalt rapids]

tldr argument = double the season progress ( pr4 + pr5 ) in ~4months with minimal loses

[barren tapir]

you are also pro gamer

[whole crypt]

pr5 is pretty much just Plymouth and Brest, and you can replace Brest for tank

[bold cove]

Well, without coin up, thats need alot of blueprints

[topaz smelt]

the losses come from much worse gear and spending cores elsewhere

[cobalt rapids]

what is the much worse gear
you can protocore em

[barren tapir]

if you know what to do** which honestly i don't, i just chased the preferential waifus given they werent too much worse off to focus than pr4

[topaz smelt]

what gear is good in pr5

[storm heron]

core down, ordnance down if pr5

[bold cove]

Ply gun

[whole crypt]

Harbin is good but good luck developing her if you weren't around for a CNY

[topaz smelt]

never found a use for more than 1

[cobalt rapids]

besides rainbow? not much
harbin gun but it doesnt matter

[barren tapir]

oh yeah...true

[atomic abyss]

pr4 good gear - BF109G, Saiun, Tenrai,
pr5 good gear - plygun, harbin gun

[topaz smelt]

like whats wrong with fast tracking pr4 focus then shifting to pr5

[cobalt rapids]

core down, ordnance down but you have 2 seasons at the same time completed
whats the point of mats but not to use em i dont get it

[barren tapir]

it is doable without cny but requires both cc and ty to be 120

[bold cove]

Lunar new year event gave dragon empire blueprints?

[slow fox]

I think it's highest priority to make Hindenburg D30.

[cobalt rapids]

theres nothing wrong with that

[topaz smelt]

the cores you lose on pr4 gear is equiv to buying another rainbow gear

[barren tapir]

nothing wrong but i dont think pr5 is a much worse option

[cobalt rapids]

protocoring s1-3 gives u enough and to buy pretty much all rainbow gears

[topaz smelt]

no ones gonna convert dr prints

[cobalt rapids]

well

thats the fault i find in the guide, coz pr5 rly needs good protocore handling

[topaz smelt]

and youre giving up 1 rainbow gear to make up for pr4 gear

[cobalt rapids]

well in my path im not giving up anything

[topaz smelt]

either that or you lose months of ords

[cobalt rapids]

ords are there to be spent
what is higher prio for ords?
155kais ?

[topaz smelt]

prob electronics as well

[cobalt rapids]

and flaps thats it

[topaz smelt]

flaps

[cobalt rapids]

yea but like flaps is just use 2x500 lb fighters till w15

[topaz smelt]

potentially a 2nd 457

[cobalt rapids]

2nd 457 yes but idk with tenrai on horizon

[slow fox]

Isn't highest prio to save for URudder?

What are you guys saying

[topaz smelt]

mk7s if you want those

[cobalt rapids]

mk7 dont take ords

[topaz smelt]

mk7 is either you burn ords or elecs

[barren tapir]

at this point we're going into 'potentially' and 'if you want' which it's player preferences instead of requirement then?

[topaz smelt]

and you def save elects

[cobalt rapids]

oh they do
well yes but ure gonna be capped by UR plans for mk7 since they come after 2-3 wyverns either way

so those are months in advance

[barren tapir]

save for afct cope

[storm heron]

tbh this discussion so far felt like a "who can convince better wins" since there is literally no proof to a most optimal path there

or just sam wins

[topaz smelt]

ye theres no winning here

[barren tapir]

there is also never gonna be proof unless some experienced vet new accounts both options which even then isn't gonna be perfectly reliable due to different banners and different luck

[whole crypt]

afct will probably be core shop anyway

lab has 0 history of aux gear

[barren tapir]

and finally, no true newbie is gonna realistically be able to follow either of these optimally without step by step instructions

[bold cove]

Like a guy just craft tiger instead of flappy bird

[barren tapir]

you've successfully confused me and ive been here for a bit

[storm heron]

that's just worse sidegrade innit? what is it called, mending or nanggung or something
"It's kind of halfway/awkward to just buy tigercat, might as well buy flapjack instead."

[cobalt rapids]

i have income for t2 ords tallied at ~14/month but this missed t3 converts
ill just look into the gear path and the cost and see if worth in a 4month span to get the necesarry stuff

[topaz smelt]

i have it recorded as 16/mo but ye around there

[whole crypt]

just play longer and wait

[spring bolt]

nor will old players, i was actually using me155 on uni while i do have 500lb fighters

[topaz smelt]

1 last thing, anyone know why this is even recced?

[primal silo]

still too casual to understand stuff
I'm starting to craft gearlabs now tho

[storm heron]

sam is definitely a FybreDoggo's reverse torp cult follower

[whole crypt]

something about very good anti-light even without homing

[barren tapir]

i wasted a bunch of t2 ords on shit anyway so i'm already cooked

[topaz smelt]

i dont see it

im pretty sure it does less than quad mags on light bosses

[whole crypt]

I don't either but I wasn't the one testing it and like there are basically no relevant light bosses

[storm heron]

jimmy says it is better on light. Nvm it was stigma's video

[topaz smelt]

sam dodged it when i asked

[cursive lark]

I think doggo told me to craft it for manual torping the healing abyssal

[barren tapir]

? oh i wasnt referring to those torps, i made 2 twin137s

[topaz smelt]

theres like no relevent content where you want anti light

and anything single target mags should just win out cuz hit rate

[whole crypt]

well maybe next META but main dps isn't going to be those torps anyway

[topaz smelt]

exactly

[storm heron]

the light damag considering hit rate I think, lemme check jimmy nvm it's stigma

[topaz smelt]

is sam really getting advice from stig?

[quartz jungle]

Seems you can obtain Yamashiro now?

[barren tapir]

it was before i knew how rare ords were and how much theyre needed. imagine my feeling when i waste a month's worth

[topaz smelt]

he was the only one i rmbr saying theyre good

[whole crypt]

hit rate included or not light is just not really relevant

[topaz smelt]

ye

the threats have never been light even in 14-15

[whole crypt]

did they fix it

[quartz jungle]

The error "missing configuration:2" didn't pop up

It popped up earlier for me so seems it got fixed

[whole crypt]

even light armour shit that can hurt still generally have less HP to deal with

[topaz smelt]

lmk when it hits

light shit just dies to just about anything

[whole crypt]

yep

[topaz smelt]

i think 15-4 boss is best case for the torps but even then id prefer uss mags

prob mags in general actually

fuck smoke

you guys still anti spearfish?

[spring bolt]

idk but when i see their depot, they all have 1 or 2, some at +13

[topaz smelt]

only took them 11 months

[atomic abyss]

so can we expect the same duration for the next update to ECTL

again like seriously

[cobalt rapids]

how else would you test em

[atomic abyss]

it is so hard to put a disclaimer at the top saying your stuff is outdated?

[topaz smelt]

yes

[storm heron]

is ectl much more used than ecgc?

[crimson glacier]

never heard of ecgc

[spring bolt]

also remove 113/120/76 recommendation on sandy lol

[atomic abyss]

ecgc is sam's stuff

[topaz smelt]

iirc ppl tested it to be close to dps guns with a slight edge to the barrage

[storm heron]

well that concludes it

[boreal wagon]

sample size of 1 is very conclusive indeed

[topaz smelt]

you realize we do through testing instead of parroting a cn post

[storm heron]

cuz I thought ecgc is more widely used considering it's in the ALO

[boreal wagon]

you realize i wasnt responding to u

[storm heron]

no lars is making fun of me

[topaz smelt]

that wasnt very clear, i apologize

[boreal wagon]

it was pretty clear given it was directly after doggos message

[storm heron]

I mean sometime it was unclear too given the not-reply-ing culture

[spring bolt]

i really doubt it as part of aug barrage and 1 mgm together with aug barrage are missing when i tested sandy

[barren tapir]

does CN not test stuff

[storm heron]

is turtle eval?

[topaz smelt]

i think you guys have a misconception about the sandy bug

we found it rarely triggers and its due to target swapping

unless theres a new bug

[spring bolt]

i recorded it and watched frame by frame in CM where there is no second target, it was happening every cycle with 4 mgm firing counts

[inland shoal]

Huh? To my knowledge target swapping is one of the things that can make the bug stop for sometime

[topaz smelt]

we tested it in campaign, cm and a bunch of random single target/multi target scenarios and found it was related to the target swapping and was consistent single target

but this was on aug release, idk if they broke it again in that time

[spring bolt]

it's not happening that much with a slower gun like twin 100, only with fastest ones like 76/113

[storm heron]

yat retro can work with taiyuan right?

[topaz smelt]

we took metrics with various guns at that time too and found the barrage guns edges out slightly

[spring bolt]

that's possible as they did fixed it once

[topaz smelt]

i find it believable they broke something trying to fix it

ill do some retesting and reevaluate

was this when they fixed smol lusty?

[spring bolt]

no, not long after sandy aug release iirc

[tawdry topaz]

can Akagi M receive the buffs from that one Akagi-only buff?

[vale spindle]

yes

[digital vault]

is there a way to sell augment modules? cuz my storage is full

[atomic abyss]

you use them as fodder for other augment

[vale spindle]

equipping them on ships removes them from storage

[atomic abyss]

btw @vale spindle
are you still updating your samvaluations page

[vale spindle]

it will get updated by the end of the year

[atomic abyss]

okai

[vale spindle]

along with all my other guides

[mellow cape]

Ty for your hard effort

[topaz smelt]

@spring bolt how consistent were you losing stars

[inland shoal]

Uhh if you mean that one equip that only buffs Akagi, no

[red panther]

Quick question, what is the best submarine squad rn?

[atomic abyss]

flasher, albacore, archerfish

[topaz smelt]

huh theres a dead range to the barrage

i found a range where the mg shoots but no barrages come out

[vale spindle]

is it only on the really fast guns or does it go away if you rainbow twin 100

[inland shoal]

What kind of range do you mean, distance or time

[topaz smelt]

distance

[tawdry topaz]

upgraded it

[spring bolt]

1st mgm all stars
2nd mgm 1 big star 0 small star
3rd mgm all stars
4th mgm gone and no star

[quartz jungle]

113 only or all guns?

[topaz smelt]

only tested 113 so far

i would sit in 1 spot and mgm shoots and no stars come out, until i move back in range

oh wait

[spring bolt]

i was sitting right in front of the boss, probably 20 range and not moving btw

[topaz smelt]

i might be mistakening them for sandys ghost guns

[vale spindle]

smh my head

[spring bolt]

yeah use a weapon skin

[topaz smelt]

didnt know those out range 113s

[inland shoal]

Well to my understanding it should lose the barrage on 2nd mgm always barring outside interference
Simply cuz the delay between the gun mounts is smaller than the time the barrages takes to fire, which means it tries to trigger the barrage again while it is still firing which doesn't work

[quartz jungle]

Sandy has a ghost gun? TIL

[topaz smelt]

ive seen very minimal losses, like <10%

performance related?

[vale spindle]

pretty much all cruisers that have a non main gun secondary gun slot have a ghost gun
it does shitty damage but it exists

[inland shoal]

Outside interference is big cuz it's pretty much everything that triggers her attack animation, so I think both torps and her ghost gun

[spring bolt]

something like this

and 4th mgm gone with all the stars

[topaz smelt]

is it consistent cuz im not getting it

[spring bolt]

yes

[quartz jungle]

... Is this a client difference?

[vale spindle]

could be

[inland shoal]

I 99.99999999999% doubt that

[topaz smelt]

i see some stars missing but its not consistent

i literally have to count frame by frame

its like every 4 cycles or so i would see missing stars and some mgm losses

[spring bolt]

i just recorded a new one, it's consistent here

[storm heron]

what's with that gold count

[topaz smelt]

ok i see what you mean now

[spring bolt]

that's just random coin count and yes i am running out coin soon

[inland shoal]

Basically it's like this
First mgm is reloaded, 2nd also is or is pretty close to reloaded
Sandy is not in attack state
=> First mgm triggers her attack state and also the delay for 2nd mgm, state transition takes a while, then once she is in attack state it fires, it triggers the barrage, then with a short delay 2nd mgm fires, triggers the barrage, but the 3 stars are still in the process of firing so they aren't fired again

The reason she "loses" her 4th mgm in the video there is cuz her attack state expired

[cobalt rapids]

why does the big star still come out tho ?

[inland shoal]

Cuz it's a different barrage that has 0 delay and takes 0 seconds to fire total

[cobalt rapids]

now i understand

[inland shoal]

Meanwhile the 3 little stars come out after .05s, .1s and .15s

[topaz smelt]

well now the question is, is it still worth using barrage guns

[vale spindle]

twin 100 kai doesnt have this issue right

[inland shoal]

All DD guns do

[vale spindle]

On pre retrofit and augment sandy probably

[spring bolt]

only once for twin 100 iirc, missing 3 stars, not happening in second/third/fourth cycle that i observed, and no missing mgm

[cobalt rapids]

against qem sandy on +10 100kai was only 1% behind +13 mog gun

[topaz smelt]

is it due to state updates taking 1 frame

so its like 2? frames each bullet?

[inland shoal]

No, state updates take a lot more than 1 frame

[dreamy blade]

if i just made my first wyvern would it go on a cv in the mob fleet or boss?

[cobalt rapids]

usually mob

[topaz smelt]

are they on the 10 ups timer?

[inland shoal]

They do an animation where the ship raises its hand (or something anyway) and once that animation is done the ship actually changes its state

[dreamy blade]

fine to just throw it on uni then?

[topaz smelt]

are they in attack state for the entire pattern or do they change back per bullet/barrage

[inland shoal]

For DDs it's usually 1.6666 seconds

They change once the animation has finished and the ship stops holding its hand high (So after a set amount of time)

Like the animation has an "action" trigger and a "finish" trigger and the ship can only fire weapons between those 2

And a weapon trying to fire outside those two triggers the start of the animation

[plain saffron]

are tlr role permanent?

[inland shoal]

No

[topaz smelt]

would that mean that shima bug jimmy tested a while back changed too

[soft osprey]

Could this be of use for Challenge?

[topaz smelt]

since that was shooting faster than expected iirc

[plain saffron]

thanks

[topaz smelt]

or is that within the duration still

[inland shoal]

It's not a bug. And I made a mini shitty reload sim that aligned very well with his observations

Unless you mean sth different than I think

[topaz smelt]

prob the same thing?

[inland shoal]

I'm talking about the video he made where he observed that if he takes wiki reloads he should get quite a few more AoAs than he was actually getting

[topaz smelt]

ye

[barren tapir]

wdym? it's a good second eva aux if your beaver tag is used elsewhere

[inland shoal]

But yeah nothing about this logic has changed in years

[atomic abyss]

i think he means for EX

[cobalt rapids]

rudder is the main eva aux and secondary you would run toolkit due to the lengthy battles

[topaz smelt]

was that due to an error on the wiki for animations/abs throwing off numbers

[barren tapir]

wait really? ive been trolling this entire time

[plain saffron]

trolling in gph?? mods!!

[inland shoal]

Yesn't
You can't really account for this with a constant number. It also differs between different skins of the same ship

[cobalt rapids]

just a challenge mode thing

[spring bolt]

alright i tested it again, it's just all over the place and inconsistent
cycle is 2 and also missing 3 little stars, no mgm missing
but sometimes no missing stars, probably due to the 2 mgms got a small gap for some reason

[barren tapir]

(well actually i forgot, i used fp aux on lala for elbing, but i trolled in warspite)

[plain saffron]

ngl i forgot i want to do that stuff you asked

[inland shoal]

Yeah, either a gap, or the ghost gun already triggered the attack state before the first mgm which increases the delay between the 2 gun mounts too

[spark ridge]

How “unusable” is AVP without her fate? Or is it like “fate makes her hugely better, you should be trying to get it, but she’s better than nothing if u don’t have fate yet”

[plain saffron]

fate make her usable bcs no rng

[atomic abyss]

her freeze is only 80% proc rate before FS
id rather use ark at that point

[storm heron]

how do you get that radioactive UI? is it the current cp?

[plain saffron]

so no fate is unreliable for the slows

[inland shoal]

In battle that you can reset she's fine to use without fate sim

[atomic abyss]

pls dont use cp to mean cruise pass...

[inland shoal]

Yeah, I can't help but read check point all the time

[spark ridge]

Cyberpunk collab with al?

[plain saffron]

are ghost gun also affected by the anim time

[spark ridge]

However if I didn’t have ark built, better to just work on avp?

[storm heron]

wdym? oh ok I think I get it now, sry didn't mean it that way

[inland shoal]

I think so

[spark ridge]

Won’t that burn oil

[barren tapir]

best that you don't know, lol

[atomic abyss]

yeah, but at that point maybe use eld instead

[plain saffron]

both can't fire at same time right

[inland shoal]

What are "both"?

[plain saffron]

equipped and ghost gun

[atomic abyss]

cp is also a common abbreviation for something paedophiles like

[inland shoal]

They can I think, but not sure

[spark ridge]

Eldridge? I don’t have her retro item :(

[plain saffron]

like 1 anim cycle prob can only fire 1

[atomic abyss]

well just use avp then i suppose

[inland shoal]

Nah, 1 anim cycle can house a ghost gun fire, a torp and main gun in theory

As long as they all fall into that time slot

[plain saffron]

assumeing exact frame?

interesting

[spring bolt]

hmmm i guess vt helps mitigate this issue
for twin 138 it happens only once and gone after first cycle

[topaz smelt]

whats the cd on sandys ghost gun?

[inland shoal]

1.06s

[storm heron]

you can just raise ark, raising her is faster than avp imo, especially if you spent your catchup already on ancho

[inland shoal]

VT is .4s or sth like that

Also ironic, Sandy's ghost gun shoots bulletJPs

[neon plume]

What's a good team for EX difficulty?

[plain saffron]

full dmg no healer

[storm heron]

enemy damage pretty minor anyways, I just slapped 6 rainbows and go battle for like 90 seconds or smth

[storm heron]

unless you are doing hard EX, then idk

[barren tapir]

ark royal is also good hms tech point, and hit+2

[neon plume]

who are those

[cobalt rapids]

the 3 ijn ur cvs sirius helena and jintsuu meta

[barren tapir]

well in normal mode, hard looks

[neon plume]

everyone has jintsuu meta but me

[cobalt rapids]

u dont need her, she just makes it a whole lot easier
just go to town in normal mode otherwise

[neon plume]

this is normal mode

[barren tapir]

normal mode is the important one anyway, cogs > leaderboard bullshit

[cobalt rapids]

[barren tapir]

use cv with converging tbs, boss is heavy

and manual if needed

[storm heron]

my seattle is at fsIV, it is safe to just give her free bp right

[barren tapir]

i found unicorn more helpful than a third dmg but my ships and gear are weak your mileage will vary

[topaz smelt]

@inland shoal was sandys ghost gun a 2x2?

[neon plume]

mm lemme see how is my unicorn

[barren tapir]

think it took me 3-3.5 minutes so i definitely needed the healing

when i tried without i was straight up dying within 2

[inland shoal]

I think it's just 1x2

[spring bolt]

yeah should be 1x2, and vt is 0.15 according to CN sheet

[topaz smelt]

vt between bullets?

[inland shoal]

Well ig what I call vt may be different from what is commonly understood as vt

But it blocks the queue for .4s

It has its own queue tho

[spring bolt]

premotion and post motion with vt combined is 0.41 so i guess you are still right

[storm heron]

gn torva and gph :smolmagisleep:

[inland shoal]

premotion and postmotion and vt are all kinda weird and I think relics from a time when gun reload was understood less well than it is now

[spring bolt]

idk, isn't premotion when chibi raises her hand and postmotion puts down her hand?

[plain saffron]

sometimes i wonder why it takes almost 8 years

[inland shoal]

Yesn't, it could be, but the numbers don't make too much sense and it's also wrong to add those both to the firing of a single gun

[spring bolt]

yeah i am aware about that, premotion and postmotion may or may not happen... thanks to yongshi genius coding skill

[inland shoal]

Yeah, but then you have VT which makes no sense, idk where they conjured .15s from

[spring bolt]

isn't it the time gap between first shell and last shell of the volley?

[inland shoal]

And VT is often taken to be meaning how long it takes from the firing start to the last bullet being spawned, but then it is also used as number that delays the next reload. But those 2 numbers are different

And in this case those 2 numbers are 0.15 and 0.4 respectively

(I can never remember if it delays the next reload or only blocks the queue with certainty, but I think it also delays the reload)

[spring bolt]

hmmm, in CN it's actually called "firing time" and only refer to the gap

[inland shoal]

Ah yeah I was looking at a wrong thing, 0.15 does make sense here

[topaz smelt]

how does the queue expiry work?

is there just a set duration for it

[inland shoal]

Yes

Now I'm unsure on what triggers the reload again, the end of all barrages could be triggering it in which case VT makes sense, but the blocking of the queue is a separate thing hmm, might have to look into it in detail again for the 15th time

[spring bolt]

im not sure but something like that i guess, iirc chibi can only fire when her hand is raised but her hand will raise for a limited time, fast guns like 76 can fire a third shot before the chibi lowers her hand but the fourth shot can't make it

[topaz smelt]

do you have a number for that?

[inland shoal]

Yes, the hand stays up for 1 second or longer depending on the skin, raising the hand takes 0.1666 or longer of that time

[inland shoal]

Well it's different from gun to gun, for the ghost gun it's 0.4, for all? DD guns it's 0.3

[topaz smelt]

i mean for the attack state expiry, unless theyre the same thing

[inland shoal]

Ah well for the attack state premotion and duration you have to analyse the spine assets

They're different for every ship skin

I mean they are often the same, but you have to look at the individual skin to see what they are

[spring bolt]

sounds like good old bb aux gun delay issue... did EN have it or they fixed it before EN went live?

[inland shoal]

I think EN had it yes

I don't recall what the fix was tho tbh, maybe that's when they introduced a new attack animation for BB main gun firing to make their normal firing animation shorter?

[spring bolt]

yeah, iirc repulse (or maybe someone else?) needed to make a spin before firing which is

[topaz smelt]

apparently its possible to miss 2 mgms

well 1 mgm back to back

[inland shoal]

Also don't ask me how to do this cuz I don't understand it. But @plain saffron will put the data on his site soon™ amirite

[plain saffron]

[queen jackal]

whats the opsi tuning caps

[shell willow]

203/203/156 i think

[cobalt rapids]

203/203/156 soft cap for all opsi content
above that i goes up to 999 but it does nothing

[ocean orbit]

i get Sirius now which charactsr should i replace with

[cobalt rapids]

none, keep pushing like this
houshou meta should be replace eventually

[noble osprey]

Guys what the deal with my sub fleet? Theyre near lvl 90 qith mlb and decent gear but cant clear lvl 75 backline disruption

[cobalt rapids]

and make nelson flagship

[ocean orbit]

Alright i will try to replace houshou thanks

[cobalt rapids]

do they have +10 gear?

[hollow sail]

blue cannons i am guessing

[sharp echo]

any difference command and staff cat?

[forest palm]

the cats skill will tell you if it needs to be Command or Staff

[atomic abyss]

have you used manual
one of them shd be able to solo the lv 75 one even with ease

[forest palm]

so ya there's a difference

[noble osprey]

I put the best gear on Mary Celeste the others just have basic blue gear, but she still cant solo 75

[atomic abyss]

just to confirm, you are doing this on manual right

[noble osprey]

Oh Yeah, but she doesnt have any skills, i just more her around to aboid mines

[atomic abyss]

https://youtu.be/9UmZ27PVEAs?si=Cfx7jYldXf02ycyV

try to copy this then

all the tempestas you have work in place of RF, albeit not as well
tho this is lv 95

[noble osprey]

I could buy RF in the shop, should I tho?

[atomic abyss]

no

what you have should be more than enough for lv 75 sub week;y

[noble osprey]

Hmm ok, ill try it thanks

[pseudo hearth]

What’s a good team for doing the Event EX stage?

[wind hazel]

rainbow

[pseudo hearth]

That, doesn’t help

[atomic abyss]

are you familiar with the standard sakura CV comps?

[plain saffron]

more dmg

[atomic abyss]

something like this works (not mine)

[pseudo hearth]

My Amagi isn’t MLB unfortunately (and I have other URs that’ll probably need it first). Also, maybe it’s just a skin I don’t recognize, but who’s the Vanguard Tank here?

[atomic abyss]

sirius

who isnt a tank

manual or bust

[pseudo hearth]

Ah, then why’s she there LOL

[atomic abyss]

to buff backline dmg

[pseudo hearth]

You still need a tank when you manual. The boss fills the screen like crazy

[atomic abyss]

and it doesnt matter
cos the hits ignore evasion checks

[pseudo hearth]

That I know, I meant why is she there as in, in the frontline position, and not in the back or middle.

[cobalt rapids]

this is a 1 strike comp
sirius can die off
helena and jinstuu need to make it to first strike
with enough luck this comp works on auto

[atomic abyss]

because sirius buff remains even if she dies

and it's more crucial to keep helena and jintsuu alive instead

[wind hazel]

you can do standard BB with tank helena plymouth too

[cobalt rapids]

just go easy modo

[wind hazel]

think that's what he wanted to

[pseudo hearth]

Unfortunately, I’m missing Jinstuu Meta, and also my Plymouth isn’t Dev 30 (for some reason the research for her hardly shows up).

[gilded carbon]

Among the monthly medal-shop Ships, any i should get? Im missing only a few among the DDs and CLs this month

[forest palm]

just treat EX like a foreign concept, and ignore it

[wind hazel]

it's fine, ply not dev30 will still work

[pseudo hearth]

Who are you missing?

[pseudo hearth]

So, what, would Plymouth be specifically for a BB team?

[wind hazel]

to buff your BB

[pseudo hearth]

So that’s a yes?

[wind hazel]

what

[pseudo hearth]

You didn’t exactly answer the question

[gilded carbon]

At least Le Malin and Dido. These i know off

[wind hazel]

what exactly was your question that i didn't answer?

[pseudo hearth]

#gameplay-help message

[wind hazel]

#gameplay-help message

[pseudo hearth]

Are those the only two?

[pseudo hearth]

My question is if she’s specifically (aka ONLY) for a BB team in this situation.

[forest palm]

well considering that's what Plymouths utility is centered around I don't know what else there would be

[wind hazel]

well your ply isn't dev30, which means she's missing quite a number of her own damage. her main contribution would be buffing your BB

[cobalt rapids]

as long as ur flagship is a bb ply is at her max potential

[gilded carbon]

Yes, just checked

[wind hazel]

[wind hazel]

malin FP tech, dido collection

[gilded carbon]

Noted, thx

[primal silo]

Can file zones be autod?

[cobalt rapids]

with huge amount of rng

[primal silo]

Ah, so not really
Okay, thanks

[pseudo hearth]

What’s the armor type on the EX Boss again?

[cobalt rapids]

heaby

[crystal flume]

is it kay to not take care of this child they forced onto us?
i don't see any related shop or anything

[atomic abyss]

are you in the wrong server by any chance

[crystal flume]

haha i forgot the name

[sinful elk]

You mean TB?

[crystal flume]

i think that one? the white blue child

[atomic abyss]

that would be TB yes
safe to ignore

[crystal flume]

good.. thank you haha

[rain hearth]

do you guys use conversion stones until max stats?

[jaunty vault]

ye

[rain hearth]

i have 13
how are the chances

should i wait till i have more

[jaunty vault]

chances don't matter since you'll always get higher stats

[fiery swan]

can lala tank

[wind hazel]

she can

[rain hearth]

what
i thought it randomizes

[jaunty vault]

random increments

say you get +5, you accept that, and you roll once more you won't get a -

there's also no reason to not accept the results

[rain hearth]

i see
thank you

[jaunty vault]

should try it out I can't get to explain it correctly

[wind hazel]

every roll increases at least 1

can go as high as the max stat, but always at least 1

[sinful elk]

Chat does the HIT stat affect dmg

[atomic abyss]

in short, yes
since HIT is basically accuracy (the opposite of evasion in other words)

HIT is also used to calculate crit chance

[sinful elk]

Dawg i can prob sacrifice some hp for that

[atomic abyss]

not really

[forest palm]

Hit will affect your vanguards torpedos, gun shots, your BBs gun shots, your CVs bombs

[atomic abyss]

frontliners usually have high hit, and its usually the backliners that lack hit

[forest palm]

I forget if Hit affects AA

[atomic abyss]

this is why the STAAG bofors is used on BB/C/V and CVLs - for its hit stat

and why the white shell is preferred to the black shell for BB/C/V

[sinful elk]

Then what is the purpose of FuMo though

[atomic abyss]

the firepower

[sinful elk]

Aint that too little

[tame jungle]

Yes that’s why you don’t use it on backline

[atomic abyss]

and its also why you just stick to survival auxes for frontliners

tho if you arent dying, say on meta fights, its still a noticeable amount

[jaunty vault]

nyaruhodo

[sinful elk]

I recently got kawakaze though is she good to mob (opsi)

[atomic abyss]

it might "just be enough" to push to to the OHKO or 2HKO range