A statement from Shad regarding Pyro and the server rebranding

[mighty thunder]

Would have still been more community based (even if trolls turned out to be the majority of the community)

[wraith flint]

Let the moderation decide

[river cloak]

I get it, but it was with other users

[mighty thunder]

Already has

[river cloak]

I left because I felt the constant insults weren't interesting
heard there was an actual update

[mighty thunder]

.
There is no negotiation, there is no decision
#announcements also carefully read the last pinged announcement

[rough delta]

Right, because that wasn't an issue here already with current leadership

[mighty thunder]

What?

[sonic depot]

/sarcasm

[mighty thunder]

O

[jaunty kiln]

I mean, unless I'm mistaken, you weren't engaged until you saw the icon change.

Doesn't it make sense for the community server to reflect the tastes of the community?

[river cloak]

What makes sense is that what is agreed upon is respected

After that when there is a stable foundation then you can start talking about change

Most people seem in favour for change, but they disagree on how it is done
mainly on if Pyro is allowed to do what he's doing or if he's doing basically a coup d'etat
or what even is the community since only a fraction actually posts

[mighty thunder]

Community is a word being thrown around a lot and people seem to use it with the intention of exclusion
Is not everyone in the server the community? I think they are, if they are allowed to be here they are part of the community

[weak prairie]

Cannot agree more.

[rough delta]

Hard to say I was never part of it, though I haven't been recently, mainly because of the moderation on the server. I don't think my participation or anyone else's will really have any weight on the matter. I find the idea that the mods are going to pay any attention or care to the "community" pretty funny though. The discussion is essentially null from the start. The server staff will do what they have always done, whatever they want.

[jaunty kiln]

I get that but I don't understand how Pyro can be doing things differently?

[jaunty kiln]

Well ofc. It is still a discord server

[rough delta]

Indeed. I just found it funny that some people seemed to think there'd be some other outcome like a vote or "community" input

Or that somehow a change in server owner could make the moderation here even worse

[river cloak]

not make public accusations would be a first step

[jaunty kiln]

What public accusations? His note about Shad threatening?

[river cloak]

This shitshow started because Pyro chose to accuse shad of many things including threat and refused to give evidence

Shad is there because he's responding to said accusation by showing that none of this is true
but of course you're ignoring that and accusing Shad of starting something he got dragged in

I thought at first it was a "you give me back the server or else" but it's not even there

If pyro really wanted things to not be leaked he should have not made public what he felt happened and certainly not with a guy known to bring receipt as soon as he starts arguing

[jaunty kiln]

I think the wording of the announcement may have been decided by the mod group as a whole

[rough delta]

Bringing receipts here was the worst thing he could have done tbh

[jaunty kiln]

And also, knowing how vitriolic Shad is, I don't think this post was avoidable

[jaunty kiln]

It certainly would've been explosive and I doubt it wouldve calmed things down

[rough delta]

You guys are potatoes so I doubt you've had much experience with the moderation here

[river cloak]

making the thing explode outside their private Dms in any shape of form was the worst decision

[jaunty kiln]

Though I am a gossipy POS so I want to see the screenshots lol

[jaunty kiln]

I lurked for a while but you aren't wrong

[clever sorrel]

@topaz bramble you had the option of good faith explanations, but it's pretty clear you've continued your trend of self-aggrandizement and general incompatibility with personal responsibility.

[river cloak]

I saw Pyro let people go for no reason and rudely ask people asking him to do something
if that is the regular stuff I have a good idea

[rough delta]

That's kinda the surface of the sea

[river cloak]

bruh we just ruled over this
@hexed stream

[rough delta]

Granted Pyro was never the worst offender, but I guess he is responsible for all those under him who were

[river cloak]

no instead we break the rules to insult and make further accusations

[river cloak]

I've heard stories about Princeps and many others

the server isn't popular in many circles
especially for the mod teams, though some like Cookie are praised

Christy seems to be doing a good job as well

[rough delta]

Surprisingly some of the worst mods seemed to be those who I guess are more "politically aligned" with him. I never really watch his political videos so I'm not even sure what all he believes about that stuff

Maybe it would've been worse with him lol. I don't know but it's hard to imagine

[hexed stream]

please dont ping shad. he explicitly asked us not to do that (see #info-old -> intro) thank you:)

[mighty thunder]

This is getting political and pings are being made, attacks on people's character are happening

[hexed stream]

jup saw that! thanks

[river cloak]

it's been happening since I've been here
and if you criticize you get attacked

Again on other servers that would get you muted, but here it seems fine
so I guess it's allowed (and in rome do like the Romans)

[hexed stream]

ill give you the benefit of the doubt that you didnt know but please re-read the rules

||i doubt its going to happen but i can try||

[jaunty kiln]

I would love to say I'm surprised

[jaunty kiln]

Sorry whose online character is being attacked?

[hexed stream]

im never modding in an area where ppl eventually go to other servers to complain so i doubt youve heard about me xD

[river cloak]

only good/"one of the respectable ones"

[jaunty kiln]

People do that??

[rough delta]

I don't even remember Christy so I can't really say

[hexed stream]

tbh i saw servers with worse moderation so i know it can always get worse and worse and worse and... you get themessage xD

[river cloak]

Many do not feel comfortable here and talk about it elsewhere
trauma from other mods

[jaunty kiln]

Oh ok

I find that weird

[rough delta]

But the issue always seemed very top down so there's not really anyone I can't wasn't bad

[hexed stream]

yep, i dont hang in library. but im one of the highest ranking ppl here by level (sad flex... jeez i need a life)

i chill in the inn and courtyard :)

[rough delta]

I am amazed I've been able to say anything critical about the moderation without being muted so maybe some massive change happened recently

[hexed stream]

nope, ive been mod for a pretty long internet time

different channels id say

which is a darn problem and yes we're aware of it

so yes, please be critical and please tell me/us what is going down/wrong in moderation

open a thread and post it there or shoot me a dm i dont mind

[rough delta]

[river cloak]

well as a newcomer I'd say certain mods let a lot of things fly for one side of the discussion

[rough delta]

I haven't been here in a while so all my complaints are certainly old. I also know that being critical won't change anything, I just like to complain about it when I can

[hexed stream]

we mods usually only mod in certain areas (since we cant cover all channels) and therefore we dont know everything everywhere and/or the moderation style can feel vastly different

[river cloak]

You've seen an example, but in this convo one side is allowed to make a lot of insults/personal attacks and get away with it

that drives away the people just there to discuss and not to shit on people

[clever sorrel]

To be honest, some of the reason some of us don't/have yet to interact is because of Shad's shadow over the thing. I've enjoyed reading stuff here from the community as a lurker, but it's not as recent as people say - Shad's been a problem for his own brand for a while. Some of us lurkers might interact more if we were rid of Shad.

[hexed stream]

absolutely and i yelled at ppl in our mod channels for that

[river cloak]

I mean, I doubt barging in to insult people and breaking the rule is going to help much

[lavish needle]

@river cloak has just advanced to level 5.

[hexed stream]

maybe we could indeed open a thread for that so this doesnt get sidetracked too much?

[rough delta]

As I lurker, my lurking was driven by mods, not all by anything shad did

[hexed stream]

so we have two different reasons for lurking! thats very good to take note of

[river cloak]

there are certainly many other reasons

some have expressed lurking from time to time because they have hope it gets better/haters get dealt with

[rough delta]

There's definitely a contingent of people who didn't really come here from Shad who probably have no real attachment to him

And probably some people who did who are trolls

The server for me mostly was about discussing writing and medieval stuff though, Shad was just an easy catalyst that drew us all

[mighty thunder]

Exact opposite problem for me
I'm a shad supporter but for the longest time I was afraid to say my piece because I see so many clearly on the other side of the spectrum from me

[rough delta]

The selective moderation, smoke screen of accountability through tickets (which just served to say "no we totally are open to saying we were wrong") are what ended up getting to me

It wasn't that rules weren't enforced evenly, or that mods could just arbitrarily punish people

[hexed stream]

#1281683054708002918 i made a thread for it

[rough delta]

It was the fact they pretended they weren't doing that

[hexed stream]

so we can keep talking about the statement here :)

[rough delta]

Hmm statement

As someone who likes Shad's stuff still I really don't have a strong opinion either way tbh

[hexed stream]

i just dont want this to derail so we can leave the space for those who want to chime in about that:)

[rough delta]

I don't like Pyro at all but this really wasn't Shad's server imo

I have no idea if Shad actually demanded control or Pyro is just full of it (both are plausible to me) but it's Pyros server at the end of the day

[river cloak]

I mean it's less how many and more how it is expressed
"whoever thinks like Shad should be arrested" as one said to parahrase isn't welcoming

[grave rain]

In some other servers that are very anti-Shad I’m still a shad supporter
It’s kind of weird to see them forming opinions on things like Knight Watch and such when I’m more limited in scope to just the main channel videos, so I can imagine how it feels here where it’s supposed to be welcoming for shad fans

[river cloak]

again that enters the question of bad moderation because mos server I know would mute you just for call to violence

[hexed stream]

thats totally fair and i know shrad said "says as shad". which isnt welcoming but indeed true here where i (and he, since hes also from my country) live. It would get you onto a watch list preeetttyyy darn quick

[rough delta]

I never really watched it much tbh. I probably agree and disagree with Shad on a lot of stuff pertaining to the type of content on that channel but, he did ultimately help fuel a lot of medieval and fantasy enthusiasm on the internet, even if just by lending his name to this server. I was only ever into the medieval stuff. If the server staff or the people here didn't like his opinions on certain topics I think it would've been their right to distance themselves in an amiable way

I also think if they did feel that and tried to do it they would totally flub it and create a fiasco

Which is why I have no idea what has really happened here

I am not above thinking Shad was wanting to control his image or something

But I also have zero trust in Pyro so really both of their accusations against each other are believable to me

[jaunty kiln]

As someone who is also from OZ I can agree to this

[hexed stream]

OZ?

ppl using shortenings in dont know in a language that isnt my mother tongue scare me 😭

[jaunty kiln]

Sorry are you not talking about Shad?

OZ = Australia 🙂

[hexed stream]

im german :)

i was talking about shrad and me as being from the same country

[frank finch]

Shes leaking my location oh nooooooo

[hexed stream]

watch me dox you on accident xD

[jaunty kiln]

Oh right - for some reason I thought you were talking about Shad...
<Shrug> well we have some pretty tight speech laws here too (or there, I moved to the UK recently)

[gray bough]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kgrvdeLBR8

[frank finch]

Is shrad even the translation for a schrat? Idk. Its a forest spirit in german folklore. One that likes to cause trouble

[jaunty kiln]

I don't know and tbh I think I need a lie down

❤️ is my message

@river cloak you always seem to add "hmm" emotes to my messages lol

Making me paranoid haha

[river cloak]

I'm sorry you take it that way

[jaunty kiln]

I'm not offended just worried that there is something I have done to make you unsure about me or something

[hexed stream]

LMAO I WAS MISSPELLING YOU THE WHOLE TIME

[river cloak]

It happened like once to you in the past hour or so, so you confuse me more than anything

( )

[jaunty kiln]

Haha well, all good then if it's all good

[lavish needle]

@rose monolith has just advanced to level 3.

[sudden dawn]

It's normally that way here as well, at least in the parts I frequent. I'm not sure Aelion/Jou has paid attention to this channel yet.

[rose monolith]

Screenshots show the exact opposit of what hes claiming. Was offered ownership, didnt take it. Clearly in the first screenshot he says "otherwise it couldnt be connected to shadiversity". Well its not anymore, so go away.

[frank finch]

THIS. I said it before and am grateful u said it again

[jaunty kiln]

@hexed stream

[rose monolith]

Honest to god, everyone go to r/shadiversity and look at the posts. Look at all the comments. Place is dead because of shads ownership.

[jaunty kiln]

I agree but I think we can do it without the swearing

[frank finch]

I like swearing

[spring holly]

I do agree with the comment's idea, but there's forms to be kept to remain civil

[jaunty kiln]

Same but other people here don't, so let's be civil

[rose monolith]

If I've broken any rules I'll change my comment. So I'll be politer. Shad, stop being a silly sausage. You first message outlines the offer. Its not associated with you anymore. Case closed

[jaunty kiln]

Haha well I'm not a mod so I don't know about any rule breaking but I think it's a funnier improvement

[hexed stream]

ill delete this, please dont be uncivil even if you have grievances.

[rose monolith]

Fair, the man gets under my skin, but I'll keep the decorum of this place in the future.

[hexed stream]

also neat level message

even if its gone lmao

not everybody levels by insulting someone

[rose monolith]

I'm being as classy as ever

[hexed stream]

very much appreciated

i swear i didnt have to log this much in a full year like i do this week

[frank finch]

I legitimately love you man

[jaunty kiln]

You guys have to log what you do?

[rose monolith]

Sorry to increase the mod burden on you! Promise that'll be the last time

[hexed stream]

yep. auto-log and then also a manual log

its paperwork guys, dont misbehave. i might be german but i hate this!

[rose monolith]

Do you need me to edit the word piss in my other comment to something a bit more friendly?

[hexed stream]

yep

thatd be nice

[rose monolith]

on it

done, changed to "go away"

[hexed stream]

please dont insult here periodt

[jaunty kiln]

But why?
I mod in some other discords and we just screenshot if it's a "big" deal otherwise just deleted

[hexed stream]

because its a pretty big server that used to be way more active

for clearer insight, you need to ask someone thats been here longer than me tbf

[jaunty kiln]

Hmmmmmm I think the talk of reform should also apply to the mod team rules as well.
This isn't a job

[hexed stream]

thats the log:
User: (tag user) Action: (eg 1hr mute) Channel: (#channel) Reason: (eg sent a dickpic) Link to warning log: (jailor warnings create links with logs) Screenshot/other proof

its not hard per se, just annoying to do when you want to chat

[jaunty kiln]

I mean, I agree it's not hard but ... Still a bigger ask that just "keep the peace, keep the rules"

[rose monolith]

"support my authority over the server even if I didn’t have the ownership"

Shad literally acknowledging he doesn't have any ownership over the server. Even if he at any point owned it, which outlined in his own messages he didnt. He then gave it away.

Really not cool by shad. Defo a cool move to do this and create the drama.

[lavish needle]

@rose monolith has just advanced to level 4.

[jaunty kiln]

It definitely does feel like that was the point

[rose monolith]

I'm not a fan of his actions or behavior and looking at the wider shad ecosphere, this kind of behavior is a pattern by him. Really good move to divorce ourselves as far away from that as possible.

[glad birch]

Way I see it coming from a lowly new serf community was designed around something. content creator changed. community isn't big on that change.

It's kinda like PewDiePie moving from gaming to reddit style content unfortunately people change people leave and people stay it do be like that were only human after all

[lavish needle]

@glad birch has just advanced to level 4.

[serene thunder]

Huh. I guess that'd explain why he didn't received my video idea of him covering any Medieval African Weaponry and/or Armor.
(I think I said Armor)

Go figure. 😅😂

[finite verge]

What is it with Discord and drama? I certainly get where Shad is coming from, but at the same time I also get Pyro's side. All in all, I have been growing apart from Shad for a while, so suppose I will stand with whom I stood once before.

[lavish needle]

@finite verge has just advanced to level 26.

[broken hatch]

“I don’t expect this to change anything.” Then why spend hours crafting a verbose response?

[hexed stream]

Because everyone has the freedom to share their thoughts

[jaunty kiln]

Absolutely but lets be honest, Shad isn't dumb. He knew what he was doing with that post and that he was putting a fox in the henhouse

[river cloak]

because people can defend themselves?

[placid lava]

Dude left the server

[grizzled plank]

Big surprise

[hexed stream]

Okay, it seems like everyone who wanted shared their thoughts on this.

We will be turning this channel into read-only at <t:1725813000:F> which is in <t:1725813000:R> (those timestamps should show the time in your timezone) to move on with the changes.

If you have further thoughts on how those changes can look, please share them in the appropriate channel from the #974930696751677450 - forum once it's closed :) We appreciate all the helpful feedback on what should happen!

[fast scaffold]

I haven’t read absolutely everything yet but I guess my only concern is if there’s any proof Shad ever explicitly stated that he isn’t gonna let Pyro and his team in on what Shad and his team plan to do

If Shad suggested that Pyro was never going to be involved ever again in the future then I could see why Pyro would want to not give it to him. But since Shad never seemed to imply that would be the case I don’t see why Pyro is against Shad getting ownership.

I could change my mind if I find more evidence (screenshots of Pyro’s and Shad’s em convo) but this is a time thing blegh

Overall I hope this can end amicably for as many parties involved as possible

[celest oxide]

All that was posted were a few selective snippets by Shad.

[stable pebble]

Its still better than nothing at all.

[spring holly]

And where Pyro lives, at least, it's illegal to share private conversations the way Shad did (Pyro seemed to think it was the same where Shad lives at as well)

[celest oxide]

Not necessarily. If it was selected to be favorable to Shad, then how is that better than nothing?

[stable pebble]

Oh yeah, always uphold the law. Otherwise we would have barbarians at our gates. But its hard to form an informed opinion of the matter whitout contex and only word of mouth.

[spring holly]

Indeed

But illegal or not, it's always bad manners to make private messages public without the other party's consent. And it's worse when we cannot how how curated those are, thus they add no value really

[stable pebble]

Whatever is the outcome of this, whetever Shad makes His own new Discord Channel or not, I hope that it be handeled whit respect whitout biggoning of others.

[stable pebble]

True. Always should have a common agreement when doing stuff like this.

[lavish needle]

@stable pebble has just advanced to level 13.

[hexed stream]

Yeah i really hope that all sides can find something that gives them enough joy to maintain it for longer

[sharp cosmos]

Yes, australian law forbids it too.

[timid slate]

Fascinating

[final remnant]

My one concern about shad taking over this server is making it from-slightly-to-much-more reactionary, anti-woke and less a safe space.
There's frequent bashing on this server (or it might be my own confirmation bias), which saddens me a bit.
So if Shad would take this server over, there could be a chance it would worsen (or maybe not at all ?).

But I'm not here to debate, more like shitposting and sharing creations.

TL;DR I feared it could lean much more to the right

[rugged vapor]

i dont see how it's bad manners to publish DM's to defend oneself against (as Shad views it) lies and fraud
there has been an at-everyone ping claiming Shad made threats (plural!), and so he responded by showing that there werent any, or at most a vague statement that could be interpreted in different ways. now i'm no lawyer, but both legally and morally i dont see the issue of defending yourself against libel, which is in itself illegal
and then the ownership itself is heavily debated, so if Shad views the rebranding and announcement as a breach of a verbal contract, then i find it only reasonable to show it to the affected public to inform them about the actual state of the matter - assuming those DM's didnt omit anything
the ideal way to resolve this would be if both Pyro and Shad could agree on publishing the relevant DM's, to the extent that there isnt any context missing. but i assume that ship has sailed by now

regarding the overall topic, i've been silently reading along and understand a lot of viewpoints. Shad was assured that this Discord server would always run the way he wants it to be run, and this assurance (in my eyes) was now broken, so he understandably feels betrayed
on the other hand nobody knows why he even suddenly cares about the Discord after neglecting it for years; and even if you think he does have the power/right/moral highground to oppose a rebranding, there is a reasonable argument that he simply should not exercise it and instead let the community flourish the way it makes the most sense in the current day - like a responsible king would

ultimately i dont care either way, as any rebranding or not doesnt affect me, but it's sad to see it leading to such drama. an unfortunate consequence of a messy ownership situation from the very start because Shad didnt know Discord well at the time, plus his apparent refusal to communicate about his plans with the server both throughout the years as well as going forward. lessons learned i guess?