Legendary Quests

[molten pine]

fair nuff, i suppose

[velvet oriole]

I was thinking about the Alola legends quest and have to ask if it would be a good idea to reward the Psychium Z after "reaching" the ruins with Lillie. like after clearing the route (defeating 10 pokemon)

oh, and if it would be possible to unlock the lake of the sunne and moone to before the E4? in the games Gladion gives you the flute from it but if we translated that into you exploring the dungeon yourself it might be more fun?

[molten pine]

theoretically you could but you'd make me very annoyed if you did.
You'd have to have a pre-e4 dungeon boss, aka not a legendary, and that one's hard enough to grind for the solar and lunar lights

I don't have any power to veto or not, just offering my reason not to do it.

[weak temple]

Thoughts on me completely killing clone event for mew and Mewtwo ql?

And turning the clones into Kantos permanent wanderers?

[inland roost]

Less fomo

[molten pine]

what would you do with armoured mewtwo?

my only issue with that would be having 4 wanderers, only one of which is essential for progression, in kanto

unless you mean mew is no longer a wanderer

[snow pewter]

That would be my concern: people catching clones instead of mew and being stuck in Kanto for a long and frustrating time.

[inland roost]

Leaf, you are confusing terms wanderer ≠ roamer

But that can be your solution too, slk I bet you will approve this idea... Make clone ones wanderer only...

Oh yeah leaf confusion confused me, you said wanderers since a begining.

[molten pine]

<w>

[inland roost]

?

[molten pine]

Just a walleyed smiley, single-handedly muddling an entire chat over nothing

[inland roost]

BRB I need to search the translate of 50% of your words

[molten pine]

I feel dumb

And I made the whole chat dumber

That’s it

[molten pine]

But anyway, two concerns.
1: where will armoured mewtwo go?
2: “anniversary of the first movie” is probably an event worth having an event for in some sense.

[elfin sand]

is there a precedent of alternate forms that affect the game permanently like that? i mean apart from main game onces like cherrim two weathers, indeedee two genders, and so on

[snow pewter]

A lot of them are taken on a case by case basis. Like meta Groudon: it wasn't possible to make the quest make sense without a meta Groudon fight. Then, since it needed to be in the game files to be fought, it was added as an obtainable Mon

[elfin sand]

not sure i understand why you're mentionning meta groudon

can you see it anywhere but in BF now?

now that it's caught

[snow pewter]

Ooh I understand the question now. I didn't before

I don't know that there's precedent for the clone mons still being available

[elfin sand]

fyi, apart from this argument, that an alternate form has a "permanent presence" in the game would be a first, i like events, they're fun, something to look forward to, doesn't ruin anyone's experience to miss out on another squirtle for at most a year if you start right after the event

game has at least a year of content at the moment anyway so : P

[snow pewter]

(event calendar when)

[elfin sand]

i felt like the event calendar would only be usable on past events, that would require a creation date, idk if there's one

[molten pine]

you could use the existing event pokemon for that if you wanted
like, if they have santa snorlax they must have been playing at chrismer

just to get a baseline of where they've been

[broken lynx]

I think Vodo means creation date of the event

[molten pine]

ahhhh

well that could be retroactively added for any events that haven't happened yet

just dig up when it's pull request was added

[elfin sand]

no savefile creation date, so we know whether or not the event has passed since player plays

So you start in december

[broken lynx]

Ah, pretty sure you're wrong then

[elfin sand]

and in april you can buy the vivillion, christmas,.. but not the summer ones

[broken lynx]

At least, as far as I understand the event calendar, it doesn't have anything like that planned

[elfin sand]

yeah apparently ^^

[broken lynx]

You'd have to ask Jaas to be sure though

[elfin sand]

there's a draft i can checkout on github too, but i don't really care, that's just what i thought it would be, ok with me if it isn't : )

[weak temple]

Mew would end up being 'free' reward at end up questline

Which would end post game kanto

[elfin sand]

roamerwise

[weak temple]

Armoured Mewtwo you would get mid questline

[elfin sand]

unless you need 150 to trigger the quest?

[weak temple]

No it would start first time you reach lavender and end at end of kanto

[elfin sand]

so you could still be missing kabuto and get mew ok ok. well not a fan of the clone roamers, but not awful for the game if you do it the way you describe : )

[weak temple]

It's one draft I have thought up

[elfin sand]

the main goal is to give mew a quest right? and mewtwo.. so movie.. so clones, yeah i don't see how you can do it without bringing them in, event kinda screws you

[weak temple]

Regular Mewtwo could be locked behind getting 149 first then mew after mewtwo

[elfin sand]

i'm all for designing around R2C so no issue with me : ) but people are gonna cry about not canon ^^

we need other clone designs and we put those in the quest or we put those in the event and put starter clones in the quest and voilà!

donphan is in the first movie but is not from gen 1, i'd love to see it mentionned somewhere, somehow

[snow pewter]

I think we should be keeping Mewtwo accessible after the E4, as is canon

Which, nothing keeping a step quest near the end from being 'become the E4 champ'

[molten pine]

maybe mewtwo only invites champs to... wherever he is. in the original movie he only invited strong trainers, right?

[inland roost]

Truck for mew

[molten pine]

that's a fun dumb alt form idea

mew in a truck

[inland roost]

BRB... I have a thing to do...

[weak temple]

Current idea get to lavender
listen to fugis story
clones start to wander or set location temp battles
Get all clones then go back to fugis and temp battle origin Mewtwo or wander origin Mewtwo
Go about towns a bit and have armoured Mewtwo disturbance aftermath npcs
Get to cinnabar and continue fugis story via npcs/books in burned mansion
Beat Blaine and Blaine explains his part of Mewtwo origin
Clear temp battle at viridian gym with armoured mewtwo during same time you unlock sevii.
Armoured Mewtwo runs away after you defeat him due to armour getting wreaked and can't contain (this is where he leaves to cerulean cave)
Finish rest of game and get access to cave
Catch Mewtwo
Go back to Blaine and he tells you that you caught Mewtwo but aren't using it's full power and tells you to come back later
Back to fugis to show him Mewtwo
Go back home and celebrate with mom and oak about catching all 150 pokemon in Kanto
Realize the mention of mew and catch a glance of it from the window
Chase mew around several places including ss Anne truck and make jokes about it
End mew quest somewhere where it joins your party and thanks you for playing with it
Return to Blaine and get armoured Mewtwo (depending on which story to follow, can tease megastones here)

Thus this quest line would take from most sources of their origins

[snow pewter]

I think that if catching the wandering mons isnt't required to progress (maybe they start to wander after the temp battle and are just a fun bonus), that sounds great

[weak temple]

Then turning the clones to a temp battle makes sense, could use the yellow locations as where the temp battles will be

Then turn origin Mewtwo into roamer, kinda funny you would get an alt first though lol

[snow pewter]

Hmmm I dunno about that. Having origin Mewtwo be a roamer after the quest is over might be better to avoid that confusion

Since it's Kanto, the noobest of the noobs will be doing this quest after all

[molten pine]

we could have origin mewtwo be a roamer after mega mewtwo's quest, mebbe

return to the classix

[weak temple]

The text from fugi would explain it but who even reads npcs 🤷‍♂️

[weak temple]

The ss Anne truck part would be new laughing at you for trying to push the truck and failing

Attempting to look under but don't know how due to 2d

[molten pine]

good fit for hoopa day i think, psychic/steel type? XD

[weak temple]

I would be evil if one step of play with mew included encountering it in safari zone 🤣🤣🤣

[inland roost]

Transform into ditto after the day end

[haughty frigate]

Do it slk, do it

[molten pine]

i think it works fine just as part of it, the original Mew under a truck was essentially a hoax itself

[weak temple]

Mew pops up on safari overworld any battle you get into changes it's location on the map until you reach it without other encounters

I'm not that evil

[snow pewter]

By the general standards for the quests, it should be easy enough to blindly stumble through the Mewtwo/Mew part in normal gameplay, but the alt forms can be much meaner

[molten pine]

that's probably the only iffy thing, is that the quest line sorta mixes them both in together

alt forms and true forms

[weak temple]

Meaner like Blaine giving you the megastones for Mewtwo in Kanto but you can't use them till unova? Lol

[snow pewter]

Not out of the question, could happen

[inland roost]

Couldn't be confuse?

[elfin sand]

so catching the clones would kinda alleviate kanto's QP cost too since you don't require to get starters from eggs, still don't like the idea of canning an event but that's a positive : )

[molten pine]

i just think the event's too big to completely can. especially if the direction i've heard people asking for events is less emphasis on real-world ones, (personal feelings aside) this is going in the opposite direction by canning it.
A simple solution is that at least one or two alt forms aren't farmable except during the event, where they spawn if you've already completed the quest.

[inland roost]

That sound like slk vivillon idea

[weak temple]

If the clones are temp battles then the event doesn't have to be removed, just renamed to Mewtwo returns or something

[molten pine]

i was tempted to say "like the vivillon event".

[inland roost]

Mewtwo the two

sorrry

[molten pine]

it's even easier to justify because it's kanto questmons, you can probably clear that day one

[elfin sand]

i'm maybe misunderstanding the mechanics, not sure if you want people to catch clones, not sure if they stay as perma raomers. but yeah i guess temp battles would leave the event useful to EV, it's something : )

[inland roost]

Guys, can we try to know if we are saying wanderers or roamers?

[elfin sand]

btw the event is called

current plan looks like a good idea to me then Slk : )

[weak temple]

If temp battle route, would be like suicune. Stays on map till caught

[elfin sand]

would even make the event make sense, since you encounter clones in kanto, and then they strike back! 🤩

[weak temple]

Make clone pika Perma roamers 🙃

Never enough Pikachu's!

[elfin sand]

that i don't mind

[molten pine]

https://media.tenor.com/L0U84S9YTrYAAAAC/pikachu-slap.gif

[weak temple]

Or clone pika and Meowth

[elfin sand]

the feels

[inland roost]

Do clone meowth exist? And so is free for sprite?

[weak temple]

Meowth was cloned in the first movie

[inland roost]

Because I know about clown meowth...

[weak temple]

I don't think there was a difference other then it couldn't talk human

[inland roost]

I NEED screenshot

[elfin sand]

zipped mouth meowth cursed but canon

[inland roost]

I NEED screenshot

[weak temple]

https://youtu.be/eUi2XEJBf9U

[molten pine]

reality is often disappointing

[elfin sand]

good luck differentiating them

maybe use different stances

one acts more like a cat cause can't talk

idk

[weak temple]

There's also the "I'm so done with this" eyes

[elfin sand]

kind of a yawn

[snow pewter]

Pretty samey

[weak temple]

Other option would be those "baby" versions of Rhyhorn and Nidoqueen and a few others from the movie

[elfin sand]

is it just me or those things left and right of of meowth are longer?

i want donphan!!!! : P

[weak temple]

Donphan can be done by having tempt battles of the pokemon movie trainers before you access cerulean cave

[latent moss]

You could tie it in with Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee and have Green appear for a temp battle outside Cerulean Cave looking for Mewtwo, where she demands you battle for ownership of Mewtwo and throws a pokeball at you, then when you beat her she tries to charm you into 'being her Pokemon' but obv that doesn't work so she concedes defeat and gives you Mewtwonite.

im p sure she gives it to you for the fact that she herself cant have Mewtwo, as you got to him first

[weak temple]

So I guess for stones it would come down to let's go storyline or manga storyline.
Manga storyline would give free armoured Mewtwo though 🤔

[snow pewter]

That might mess up the Pokedex, probably not something we should do

[weak temple]

Would it mess it up if you can't catch it though?

It would make the last part of the quest text not make sense though

[latent moss]

you would have seen it and it'd expand to late johto dex

[snow pewter]

(I know, I'm the downer in this thread)

Yeah, as Vic says. It would show up as seen

[latent moss]

or i think it would expand to late johto as soon as you step into johto i think

[weak temple]

It would expand before johto

[latent moss]

the only ref point was back when the Discord Unown/Rotom were claimable before reaching Johto/Sinnoh but thats possessing something compared to just having seen it

[weak temple]

Yea only way to make it work would be a whole new -# pokemon with the same picture and stats

And cheaters would have 2 donphans

Would be an easy way to weed cheaters 😆

[latent moss]

its been 2 months so i think we can lift the gen 9 embargo but ||it could be a Paradox Donphan -shot-||

[molten pine]

gen 1 main quest is a bit too early to put gen 9 anything

[elfin sand]

i think a work around wouldn't be too hard, might be wrong..

[haughty frigate]

you could do what ultima made for the nihilego fight

[weak temple]

We could ask red to create a poll with the options being
a. As soon as poll ends
B. End of next week/month or something

[latent moss]

forgot about the unobtainable nihilego

[haughty frigate]

make a "new" pokemon with its negative dex id and make it a temp battle

[latent moss]

and true, we could get the community opinion of whether or not they want it lifted

[haughty frigate]

i'd say its already time tho

we're past new year already

[latent moss]

it'll be worked on relatively soon

yes, the idea was we let people take their time with their game and also accommodate the people who had to wait until christmas to get it

now its 2 whole months from release so the people who got it at christmas should likely be done with it, at least in majority, or close to it

im still at the E4 but thats just me

[echo holly]

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_event_Pokémon_with_in-game_effects

there's a lot of neat quest ideas that could be lifted from these

[weak temple]

So Jessicas new PR with leveling up safari zones would be fun for mew 🤣🤣🤣

[snow pewter]

Leaf, can you make sure your PR is up to date with the latest Develop? I try to merge develop into my pending PRs every few days for the Devs' benefit

[umbral nest]

I only bother with that if there is a conflict

[snow pewter]

Gotcha. Then yeah you look to be OK on that PR. never mind

[umbral nest]

checking every few days for conflicts is still good advice

github doesn't seem to tell me about those

[molten pine]

i actually wanted to ask about that

cos it's a sinnoh-tier quest, when it gets inserted in, i'll need to shuffle the gengarite update index, right?

[iron notch]

soon™

[molten pine]

assuming it's put in the same updort as the gengarite one

i don't think i've properly checked that

[umbral nest]

updort?

[molten pine]

update

updort

uptato

if it's in the same update, because it's way earlier, it'd screw up the indexing of the update, right?

[snow pewter]

not necessarily. If the order is:
update for 0.10.9
Update function for gengarite battle which is like 150
Updte function for the manaphy battles which are maybe 60 thru 70

I believe it will all work correctly

since it all runs from top to bottom

[umbral nest]

I'm also planning to add something that allows us to check those temp battle statistic insertions are all correct

[snow pewter]

you may run into issues if someone adds something before your temp battles and their PR gets merged first, so you otta re-number your update function numbers

[molten pine]

but what i mean is
the gengarite's index is or was about 112, before the merge.
then i add - i think it's nine battles? before that
do i need to change the gengarite's index to 112 + 9?

[umbral nest]

if gendarite is inserted at 112 first, it gets pushed up when you insert earlier things later in the update function

[iron notch]

soon™

[umbral nest]

if you imagine it like a queue, gengar cuts in at position 3, then manaphy cuts in at position 1, gengar is now 4th in the queue

[molten pine]

so it doesn't matter if the original position of the update was 3rd in gameconstants, but it now 4. because the other updates comes earlier, it'll automatically shuffle that focus on 3rd to 4th

that's a very clever update function that is kinda doing my head in

[umbral nest]

yeah I'm going to change it to require everything listed in order, but it will also tell you what the correct numbers need to be. Slightly more effort when adding things, but you won't have to worry about anything breaking

[molten pine]

sounds good to me

[haughty frigate]

I was doing the fully golden ho-oh and i tried another filter and i kinda like it more than the other

Ig ill do the shiny one whicn is total silver

Just one question, should the aura also be silver?

[umbral nest]

I think so? what else would you do for it?

[thorny sapphire]

Since it's just a filter can't you show both?

[umbral nest]

yeah you could do a couple of options to see which looks best

[haughty frigate]

Theres these 2 version which looks too yellow

[umbral nest]

yeah I like this one best out of those options

[snow pewter]

I do think keeping hard contrast on the legs, eyes, and mouth make it look better

[umbral nest]

I meant you could do a few silvers with different aura so we can see what is best there

[haughty frigate]

Oh, ok

[haughty frigate]

Top is no filter, in the center is with the same filter as the chosen golden ho-oh and the bottom is with the old filter

[umbral nest]

I like the middle one

[haughty frigate]

Me too, its the most vivid one i think

[snow pewter]

i like the top two, so middle is good 👍

[umbral nest]

also idk if it is possible, but is there a way to add like a light spot or something so it looks more shiny instead of gray

if not it is fine

[haughty frigate]

Lemme try something

Tried making it a bit lighter

[snow pewter]

i like it!

[inland roost]

Can you manually eddit the eye and legs dark parts to make them more black?

So it have higher contrast

[haughty frigate]

I added the filter on them also so it just doesn't look weird

It makes them look too dark compared to the rest

[inland roost]

But it can end giving a more shiny look

Their isn't light without darkness

[haughty frigate]

Have it

[inland roost]

I like it more

[haughty frigate]

i like the other one more

[umbral nest]

but each option in a separate message and have people 👍 the one they like best

[thorny sapphire]

I like the silver one better than the gold one

[haughty frigate]

by the power of the bot and polls here it goes
1️⃣ Top
2️⃣ Under Top
3️⃣ Center
4️⃣ Above Bottom
5️⃣ Bottom

[broken lynx]

Man, that is beautiful

[haughty frigate]

So ig the second ones wins

And thanks qwerty

[molten pine]

@haughty frigate what's the origin of these sprites?

[broken lynx]

Smogon

[molten pine]

but i mean who to credit

[umbral nest]

I think there is an existing smogon credit, wouldn't it go in there?

[molten pine]

ah, i see

so it'd just go under Smogon Spriter's Project?

[umbral nest]

assuming it is part of that project and not a random forum post, yeah

[broken lynx]

Yeah, you wouldn't have to add anything. It's already under "Alola sprites"

[molten pine]

nice

[velvet oriole]

If anyone here has a fresh Alola file I could use to help me visualize the... Nebby? (Lillie?) quest that'd be a great help

[molten pine]

I’m sure I have one

[velvet oriole]

just a reminder for anyone as to why sun and moon's writing is 100 times better than usum's

[velvet oriole]

wait @molten pine you figured out event npcs right? could the structure for that be used to make time-specific dialogue? like if it's day Lillie says Nebby evolved into Solgaleo, or if it's night then Lunala?

[molten pine]

the way i did it, no.
Event npcs work like Event Pokemon - you push them into the list on the start day and pull them out on the end date. That wouldn't work for what you're looking for.

There was some discussion for dialog Pages, and I suggested those could be made requirement-based for flexibility, but i don't think anyone's thought that through.

but lemme ask something, because this relates to An Idea I've Had.

[velvet oriole]

hmm, I see. so what i'm looking for is more time dependent, rather than time exclusive from the looks of it

[molten pine]

i'd do two npcs with the DayCyclePart Requirement, maybe.

but lemme do a talks with the dev help chat, because this ties into an idea i've had for a while.

[velvet oriole]

oh right, and before I forget, someone should change "dusk" time to "evening" cause it's a bit confusing imo

[latent moss]

its called Dusk bc the Lycanroc is 'Dusk forme' and it only matters for Dusk Lycanroc and Rainbow Alcremie

[elfin sand]

which btw also evolves during dawn... 💤

[inland roost]

(it shouldn't)

[latent moss]

dont think it does in gen 7 but they might've done that in gen 8 for the sake of accessibility

[prime jacinth]

maybe they were only talking about Rainbow Alcremie

[latent moss]

dont remember Alcremie working at dawn

[prime jacinth]

whoops, I guess I misremembered, sorry

the only reason it ever evolved at 5AM is because the Moon games take place 12 hours different from real time

[elfin sand]

well in the clicker it's 6->7AM

sue me

[inland roost]

But then or dawn lycanroc have to dissappear or dawn alcreamie should be added

[umbral nest]

I wouldn't be against removing Dawn lycanroc

[inland roost]

Imo add dawn alcreamie is better, you getmore oportunities

[broken lynx]

I think in terms of sticking to canon, removing Dawn Lycanroc is better. In terms of QOL, adding dawn Alcremie is better. Not sure which is more important

[umbral nest]

I didn't pay much attention to this at the time, why was it changed from 5-6?

[broken lynx]

It was changed to 5-6

It is currently 5-6

[umbral nest]

Dawn in develop branch is 6-7

[prime jacinth]

I would've thought it was changed to 7-8 because gen 8 is newer

I guess they put it between the two canon times?

[broken lynx]

What? When was that changed? I'm 90% sure it's 5-6 in live

No, we definitely decided to go with 5-6

If it's 6-7, that's an error

[umbral nest]

for lycanroc, in Vodo's daycyclepart refactor

3770

[broken lynx]

Oh. Vodo made a mistake ig

[umbral nest]

is there anything else using Dawn that needed that change?

[inland roost]

Dawn is only used by lycanroc

Unless you want dawn alcreamy

[umbral nest]

ok then I think we should change it back

Dawn time in game should be 5-6, lycanroc uses that Dawn, and everything else keeps their current times

[prime jacinth]

but then it'd be different to Dusk wouldn't it?

[umbral nest]

different how

[prime jacinth]

Dawn and Dusk were supposed to be at the same 12 hour times, one in AM and one in PM

as far as I could tell

[umbral nest]

dusk is 5-6 pm

[broken lynx]

And so they would be. Dusk is 5-6 pm

[prime jacinth]

oh, I missed that

[umbral nest]

lawsuit incoming

[molten pine]

also there's how SV handles it, which i feel is relevant. it's got an accelerated time cycle, but whatever counts as dusk is just when dusk lycanroc spawns. in SV it doesn't spawn at dawn.

evolve at dawn.

In Pokémon Sword and Shield, Rockruff evolves into this form from 7 PM to 7:59 PM in real-time.
In Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, Rockruff evolves into this form from 5 PM to 5:59 PM in in-game time (equating to 5 PM to 5:59 PM in real-time for Ultra Sun and 5 AM to 5:59 AM in real-time for Ultra Moon).
In Pokémon Scarlet and Violet, Rockruff evolves during the evening, lasting 3 real-time minutes out of the 72 minute day/night cycle.

[inland roost]

Dawn is not cannon is just qol

[elfin sand]

my body is ready

although maybe i should have edited that 6 - 5 typo 🤫 i meant 6 - 7

[umbral nest]

if you have time could you change Dawn to start at 5am? and any other changes (day/night restricted evos, alcremie) to keep everything working the same as on 0.10.8?

[elfin sand]

already on it : )

[umbral nest]

Great 👍

[velvet oriole]

yes but the time was never referred to as "dusk" in the games, it was always evening. I just feel that naming it dusk in clicker is confusing because the icon has a white hill like night and dusk as a word refers to after the sun has set. also regarding Rockruff's evo, 5 AM is the real time you would have to be up for it to evolve in ultra moon. in-canon it was always at sunset. my vote also goes to getting rid of its dawn evolution time

anyways now for the real reason I checked this thread today:
what does everyone think about having the sun and moon flutes be obtainable after SM's quest and having them active makes it possible to evolve day or night pokemon, with "dusk" evolutions if they're both active at the same time?

also maybe pokemn encounters too, cause I've been wondering why gumshoos and raticate aren't split by day and night in verdant cavern (it'd make sense since time is the only gimmick of the main games that's an existing mechanic)

[velvet oriole]

well, and since I'm here might as well say "Dusk" Lycanroc is "Twilight" Lycanroc in japanese, a word which also applies to dawn so I guess it wouldn't be that weird to still have it evolve at that time if everyone else wants to keep it... Gamefreak isn't exactly known for making sense with their games

[prime jacinth]

doesn't "dusk" refer to the time when the sun is setting, not before or after?

[broken lynx]

Yes

[velvet oriole]

that's a negative, chief

[umbral nest]

it's the not-fully-dark after the sun stops shining on you directly

or before it starts, in the case of sunrise

[velvet oriole]

"before it starts" is dawn, which is fine as is lol

[umbral nest]

I don't understand but I'm pretty sure I agree with you

[velvet oriole]

yes, I'm just nitpicking at words for no reason
dawn -> sunrise -> day
day -> sunset -> dusk

but that's beside the point, the name is inconsequential if we represent it correctly, which is why I think the dusk image should have a black hill instead

[snow pewter]

.... so what quest is this for?

[umbral nest]

ocarina of time

[velvet oriole]

i want to make sure day and night are clearly defined within dusk so that I can make Nebby evolve into Solgaleo or Lunala and not have the player be confused because "it wasn't Day/Night!" during dawn or dusk

[umbral nest]

you know we have this in the next update to avoid any confusion what the current day cycle phase is?

[velvet oriole]

is dusk not part of day?

can I not evolve a Riolu during 17:00?

[umbral nest]

"day" evolutions can be done in "Day" or "Dusk"

the lock icon in the evo modal will say this

[velvet oriole]

^that's the thing I want to be clear for the quest

that dusk = day, and moving further will make Nebby turn into Solgaleo

hmm, but the easiest fix would be to add dialogue

[umbral nest]

is that a level evolution?

[broken lynx]

Yes

[velvet oriole]

for the quest

not any Cosmog, Nebby

[umbral nest]

we usually just rely on a nearby NPC to inform people about level evo restrictions

[velvet oriole]

this is the legendary quests thread, this isn't a level up evolution 😅

[broken lynx]

Well, you don't own Nebby when it evolves

You catch it after

[umbral nest]

I haven't been following anything about the Nebby quest to understand what you are describing

[snow pewter]

this Cosmog (Nebby), will it evolve into Cosmeon (Nebby) or something?

[velvet oriole]

yeah

it's not fully planned out, but I'm trying to see what limitations I need to deal with, and nebby's evolution seems important since even as a "third" game, USUM was still split between Lunala or Solgaleo

if it's impossible to make

• time dependent dialogue
• nebby evolve depending on the time of day
  then I'll find some other way that doesn't require irl time. one of the challenges of this is to make sure that whoever plays though is aware that dusk means it's day

[umbral nest]

why does dusk need to be included?

[velvet oriole]

because you can activate quests whenever and some players are dumb

[umbral nest]

you can have requirements on quests

[velvet oriole]

you mean only restrict progressing the quest if it's full-on day or night?

[umbral nest]

yeah

[snow pewter]

is there any substantial difference between the nebby form and the normal form?

[velvet oriole]

nebby is just what the plot-relevant Cosmog is called. it's not a form it's a nickname

[umbral nest]

Cosmeggy

[velvet oriole]

okay, yeah I like this idea. and I'll be dropping hints in the dialogue so that it'll be SUPER obvious that you can choose to get Solgaleo or Lunala

[umbral nest]

do all future quest NPCs have dialog that differs based on when you completed that day/night quest?

or any of them really

[velvet oriole]

maybe but it'll probably be easier to have them say "Nebby" :P

"the legendary pokemon"

[umbral nest]

I'm not sure we store how you completed a quest, just whether or not you did it yet

NPCs with different night/day text can only be done right now with two separate NPCs with requirements making sure they show up and disappear at the right time

[molten pine]

you could potentially do it like i was discussing yesterday

have a Custom Quest step requiring beating one of two temp battles.
then, which NPC shows up to talk is dependent on which temp battle you fought.

[broken lynx]

Yeah, but then you couldn't have that NPC progress a quest

[molten pine]

is it not possible to set up a customquest of doing one of two talktonpc quests?

[velvet oriole]

that won't work because i'm implementing the recon squad into SM's story. I'm thinking of Lillie giving you Nebby to be able to fly to Ultra Megalopolis

battling Sol/Luna isn't on my list

well, maybe I can make it fit

how many battles is too many though? for a questline that is

[broken lynx]

There's no set number

[umbral nest]

37

[broken lynx]

Shit

[velvet oriole]

you'll have Lusamine, Nebby, Dawn and Dusk Necro, and then Ultra Necro one after another?

[molten pine]

it's a main game questline, you can be pretty liberal with the number of battles.

[umbral nest]

I just made that up qwerty

[broken lynx]

I know, I'm also joking

Although, that does put into perspective that I'm fairly sure my Black/White quest has (significantly) more than that....

[molten pine]

i mean, i had nine battles in Manaphy Quest
and two thirds of those are just beating up go-rock squad in the eterna forest

[velvet oriole]

yeah but I should pace out the ones I just listed right?

[broken lynx]

Although a lot of them are Plasma Grunts that will probably be balanced to be quick to beat per battle

[molten pine]

five of my battles were essentially in a row.
It's not idea if they all overlap with each other, but if it's based on canon, and the jump between individual battles isn't too severe, people won't complain

[broken lynx]

If they naturally end up paced out, yes, if they don't, then they don't

[molten pine]

the only time i end up resenting a quest having a lot of temp battles is when it feels like a series of cliffs

and i have to grind my ass off just to make the next cliff.

[velvet oriole]

i'll make them all skippable by talking to Lillie 100 times

[snow pewter]

bruh

more plasma grunts

[broken lynx]

You know you love them

[snow pewter]

!!! My dudes and dudettes !!!
We have Hoenn done!

2 regions down, 5 to go!

[molten pine]

nice!

[molten sage]

Nice

I’m still on hoenn bro u cracked

[broken lynx]

Wait, isn't it 3 regions? Johto, Hoenn and Galar?

Oh, you weren't counting Galar nvm

[molten pine]

he's not counting galar

yeah

[haughty frigate]

Galar isn't counted cus it was all made from release

[snow pewter]

we can say 3/8 and qwerty gets full credit for one

yo who wants to do the lake spirit quest? so we can help people out with knowing they need to do that to get the giratina quest?

[broken lynx]

I find it kinda funny I haven't made a quest in ages, after I made 3 in one day

[molten pine]

speaking of galar, can I ask about the sword and shield quest?
I don't mind it being the hardest quest to complete in the region, but the hp thresholds are all over the place. I was done with the rest of the region before i even started it because the hop battle is so high-tuned.

[haughty frigate]

I wish i could but I'm already here stuck in this silvally types quest cus update.ts is a lil bish and i need npc plus i'm also planning to do the swords of justice quest

[broken lynx]

That would be because I am really bad at balancing when I'm not balancing between 2 things. Which I couldn't do for the Galar quests since they were the last things in the game

[haughty frigate]

i just took ubs quest battles hp

[snow pewter]

but now Hisui gets to be balanced off of the end of galar!

[snow pewter]

sitting down to look at em

[broken lynx]

I still need to balance Hisui lol. That's gonna be fun

[molten pine]

i'll probably be looking at Zygarde and beeg rock once I've started finished Marshadow.

zygarde in particular could be like five pokemon

[haughty frigate]

Squishy, zydoggo, 50% and complete is all i remember.

[broken lynx]

I might have a look at Heatran. I liked Tyr's idea for that, but I haven't seen them around for months

[latent moss]

cells i assume, or Z2

[broken lynx]

How would Core and Cell be given stats?

[molten pine]

there's cell, core (squishy and/or Z2), 10%, 50%, and 100%.

arguably Big Rock as well.

i'd probably just give them rock-bottom stats

[snow pewter]

I think 10%, 50%, and 100% as obtainable mons makes the most sense, with the cells not being fightable persay

[broken lynx]

Or rock-top, for big rock ;p

[molten pine]

cells with something like 10/10/10/10/10/10
cores with something comparable to a weak normal pokemon like Sunkern or Wishiwashi.
but something that might be interesting is a Battle Cafe-like menu where you mix cores and cells to make the meaningful forms.

[weak temple]

Cosmog stats

[snow pewter]

do you actually fight the cells in base game?

[molten pine]

nope

[weak temple]

with cosmog steps

[broken lynx]

No, they aren't Pokémon, per sey

[latent moss]

if they did then theyd have stats to work off of, eugene :b

[molten pine]

you just bonk them with the Zygarde Cube and they get the big succ

yes i'm aware the zygarde cube is not a cube.

[molten sage]

Pokeclicker is the best game

[haughty frigate]

Why not make the zygarde cube a key item which "stores" the cells

[molten pine]

that's what i'm thinking

then the battle-cafe-like design

[haughty frigate]

Oh so you get cells and cores and exchange for the zygardes cool

[molten pine]

neon nutz, use general chat for casual discussion

[molten sage]

Ik

[latent moss]

this isnt the place for you, this is for development conversation.

[molten sage]

Oh

Ok

Sry

[molten pine]

yeah, essentially.
Maybe not cells, but I do think at the very least a core could be a Pokémon.

we actually have cores with named identities.

[prime jacinth]

Is there gonna be a quest for 50% in Kalos and the rest in Alola like what happened in the mainline series?

[molten pine]

that's my thinking.

the rule is the main form should be entirely in the main region. and i think it's safe to argue that Zygarde's main forme is 50%.

[prime jacinth]

I guess if you're doing cells and cores, you could do some anime based stuff in Kalos

Yeah, I think the complete forme being locked in Alola is a good idea at the very least

[snow pewter]

yeah that won't affect region completion of the dex and moving cuz its an alt forme

[prime jacinth]

I think they did show 10% in the XYZ anime season (including Z2's blue 10%) so that could be there

[broken lynx]

Complete was in XYZ also

[prime jacinth]

Oh, I thought it would've been movie only

[broken lynx]

Nah, Squishy and Z2 became Complete to kill Lysandre in one of the last episodes

[molten pine]

I'm thinking those might show up in the quest or even be catchable in it, but only really grindable via the Zygarde Cube lab.

actually, maybe Z2 and/or Squishy are secret formes you can get similar to Cheesy Milcery

when you put in only one or two cores and no Cells.

[iron onyx]

is it possible for the weather trio quest to update it so that you can breed the legends as well?

[haughty frigate]

legendaries that aren't roamers will not take breeding into account during those steps as you can easily catch them again

however roamers are the only exception cus devs aren't evil enough to make you catch them again

[snow pewter]

Yeah, forcing you to recatch legendaries is intended

[velvet oriole]

Is Malie Garden blocking off Alola Route 10 and 11 or is that the Guzma fight? Cause the Guzma fight is supposed to happen after Sophocles' trial and that needs to be fixed for the new quest (i'm almost done with a working outline)

[molten pine]

check the routedata

[velvet oriole]

oh, also Malie Garden can't be comletely blocked off because you can visit it as soon as you get to UlaUla

[velvet oriole]

oh good, it's a dungeon requirement, not a quest one

might need to make a replacement boss for the first time round then?

[broken lynx]

Maybe make the Guzma fight a temp battle instead?

[ornate trail]

I think that they also show 100% and like a ¿Stone Zygard? or something like that in one battle with lysandre

[molten pine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmqo2eD3wz8

you're talking about Giant Rock, which i'm mulling over a quest incorporating both it and Zygarde in the back of my head.

[iron onyx]

just wondering about mew, could there be a quest based on the mystery of mew

[weak temple]

How would you incorporate gen 4 pokemon into Kanto?

[iron onyx]

i mean you can see them you just can't catch em

like the battle frontier

[molten pine]

the problem is, in fact, the seeing.

it'd explode the dex size out massively.

[iron onyx]

oh true, or we could have jessie's mother and dr fuji exploring

[molten pine]

i think there's someone already working on a mew+mewtwo quest

[iron onyx]

ok

[haughty frigate]

It's easy to do the same that ultima did with the ??? Nihilego

[iron onyx]

yeah exactly

[broken lynx]

Would need a different name, though. Couldn't be called the Pokémon's name. Or ???

[haughty frigate]

Oh yeah. battles use the name not ids hm

[molten pine]

you could just use literal descriptions and Trainer Names.

Mystery of Mew has Lucario and the Regis right?

[inland roost]

King of rock

[molten pine]

The Lucario could be called Aaron's Lucario.

the Regis could be called pretty much ______ Golems, fill in the blanks

the Frigid, Stony and Steely Golems

...maybe not the word golem but still

Icewrought Automata
Stonewrought Automata
Steelwrought Automata

[inland roost]

Wrought?

[molten pine]

fancy old-fashioned term for being shaped or moulded

[iron onyx]

yeah thats a great idea.

[weak temple]

That's just a lot of extra work and confusion because then you'll have questions of why did I see this pokemon but I can't catch it

And then the whole I can't get to Johto, is it because I need to catch the pokemon from the questline that I can't find

[molten pine]

might be better to have the quest, if it's included, as a gen 4 quest

[inland roost]

But mew need to be catch in Gen 1

[molten pine]

as i mentioned, I believe Rabbit Minion is working on a quest for mew and mewtwo for gen 1

[prime jacinth]

secondary legendary quests could be used to unlock repeatable battles (and thus EVs) later than you can first catch that legendary

[broken lynx]

Why would that apply to Mew though? You can catch it as many times as you want, it's a roamer

[molten pine]

roamers are considered an acceptable way to grind evs

especially with this new update

[broken lynx]

No, I mean, why a second quest when you would be able to catch it infinite times after the first quest?

[molten pine]

i'm agreeing with you, mate, i'm pointing out we have a way to grind mew evs already

[broken lynx]

Oh. I can't read lmao

[latent moss]

im curious abt somethin, whats the plan for OC Magearna? I had the idea of throwing it in Pokeball Factory as a boss once you get it from mystery gift, using the 'not available until you have it once' restriction

[molten pine]

it's a reward for... i think it's completing the shiny pokedex?

something like that- oh wait i get what you mean

quickly circling back to Mystery of Mew, if you really wanted you could have it reward around the Antibody Pokemon, constructs of Pokémon made by the Tree.

[snow pewter]

I think it being a shinydex reward is all that is planned for it. Kinda like how the therians don't have a quest persay, just a side mechanic

[fleet frigate]

I think vic's talking about evs

[weak temple]

multiple safari is the all EV solution whenever it gets back on track

[snow pewter]

Jk was working on it but I haven't seen em around for a bit

[latent moss]

ye i was referring to how to get EVs on it, thinking abt it bc im currently trying to get the alola roamer evs and base Magearna is one of em ofc

[snow pewter]

Thinking about the Lake Trio quest. Much of the in game parts are already done, but it might be a good place to put Mismagus (Rayquaza)

[broken lynx]

I've not seen that part of the anime, what does Magquaza have to do with the lake spirits?

[snow pewter]

that episode takes place about when the player would be gathering them up, is all. The Magquaza ambushes Ash and co and pretends to be Cynthia

iuno maybe I'm trying to shoehorn it in

[molten pine]

what do you mean "Mismagius (Rayquaza)"

[snow pewter]

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Disputed_Pokémon#:~:text=In Malice In Wonderland!%2C a,itself with its Rayquaza illusion.

[molten pine]

i see

[snow pewter]

mostly, the Lake Trio really needs to get done since it's a prereq for Giratina's quest and i'm trying to tink up ways to make it not boring

[molten pine]

what you got so far?

[snow pewter]

nothing lol

[molten pine]

what about something based on the Explorers games?

[inland roost]

Isn't that too near to ditoes?

[snow pewter]

oh the time gear stuff? hm. maybe, would have to read into it a bit more

and i think with respect to ditto stuff, it's a little different. Easy to draw the line as "mismagus has one thing it turns into" as opposed to the dozens ditto does

[broken lynx]

I also want to get the Sinnoh Arceus quest done before Hisui, but other than that I want it to hint about Hisui, I have no idea what it could include

[snow pewter]

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/M12

[inland roost]

Arceus have so much references

[molten pine]

ah, so you're not stuck for ideas, you're spoilt for choice

[inland roost]

Is qwerty who is making it

[snow pewter]

ah, so that movie is where Voltorb (Watermelon) comes from
yeah i have qwerty down for Arceus

[molten pine]

oh whoops

[snow pewter]

no worries. I'm also neck deep in Delta today, but my mind is wandering

[broken lynx]

I mean, I'm down for Arceus type forms, not Arceus (Normal), but I am thinking of dealing with that too

[snow pewter]

oh. i assumed you were for all of em.

Well, updated the issue with that clarification

[broken lynx]

Hmm. I'll have to check out that movie. I also have the Sinjoh Ruins event to draw from

[prime jacinth]

is the move with the extra Unown forms an Arceus movie?

[inland roost]

That's why previous iirc

[broken lynx]

Nah, that's the Entei movie iirc

[velvet oriole]

wondering if I should include the recon squad as mandatory "talk to" quests or just play into their unnecessary inclusion and only have them appear after the SM lusamine fight with little explanation? how do you guys avoid bloating questlines that have too many npcs?

[broken lynx]

Well, they have 4 battles throughout the game, so I imagine you'd want their encounters spread over the region progress, as they are in canon

[velvet oriole]

well, two of the battles aren't really needed

[broken lynx]

Aren't they?

[velvet oriole]

yeah. the first and third don't really add anything (in fact the third greatly derails the tone of the story) and the fourth is a substitute for SM's Hapu's but I'd like to leave that in if I can. also I'm looking at the hoenn and sinnoh story questlines for inspiration, since they're relatively short and how I like them structured. I don't like long, drawn out quests, and the current alola one would be fine if it wasn't so condensed.

i know some people go ham on temp battles and canon stuff but I don't think it should be that big of a deal if I leave some out, right?

the thing I like about the hoenn and sinnoh quests too is that they direct you to dungeons too, so in alola that'd be useful for things like melemele meadow and malie garden, for example. it's easy to loose track of how quests are supposed to help and want to fill them with lots of stops, so I'm taking my time on figuring out how to balance this...

might as well share the key plot points here:

• initial meeting with Lillie, temp battle against 3 Spearow
• ??? fight at Aether
• Malie library book about the legends
• Aether House Lusamine fight (already as a dungeon)
• Exeggcutor Island Hill clear for the flute
• NihiLusamine fight
• All Necrozma fights (already coded in)
  but so many things make it longer... I guess I could split this into multiple quests? like have one with team Skull that ultimately gets you a Buginium Z?

thoughts? advice? feedback?

[snow pewter]

I never played sun/moon but that does sound like enough content for multiple quests

[velvet oriole]

ah! it's so obvious now, I can split it by each island

[snow pewter]

Leaf, any progress?

[molten pine]

on the marshadow questline? not a lot recently. I went and did the other mega stone stuff and easy achievables first. now that those are done, i've been busy with other things. I've got a job interview tomorrow so I've not had a lot of time to spend on pokeclicker in or out of game.

[snow pewter]

ok, no pressure! Just wanted to check status

[snow pewter]

quick update: Lucho's taking on Xerneas/Yveltal

[inland roost]

Waiting to see what he do with it...

Not trolling him (yet)

[spark fractal]

eeey, I've been nice so far (so far...)

[iron onyx]

i believe in Lucho

[weak temple]

You can take me off the gen one stuff

[snow pewter]

Ok 😦

[velvet oriole]

now that I'm done with my other pr I'm free to work on Alola's main legend quest. I have an outline somewhere, but I want to ask if anyone else wants it before I claim it. It will include the light trio (Solgaleo, Lunala, and Necrozma)

[snow pewter]

all right, time to do some pings!
@spark fractal are we saying the Kalos quest is the Xerneas/Yveltal quest? I'm ok with that

@haughty frigate need anythign for the Silvally quest?

@molten pine how's Marshadow coming?

@velvet oriole the solgaleo/lunala/necrozma quest is yours to reserve if you want

(broke up the post cuz bot got mad)

[spark fractal]

yes, Kalos quest is Xerneas/Yveltal

the quest revolves around those two nicely enough at the end, so I think it's okay

[haughty frigate]

Silvally really needs only npc text which i'm pretty busy to do rn

[velvet oriole]

yeah I'll take it

[velvet oriole]

questions:

1. can I give the sun and moon flutes as part of the quest? if so, can I make the sun and moon flutes change the time of day when active?
2. do I have to make new mon data if I want to make Lusamine herself battleable or is there a blank placeholder?
3. I don't have to refactor already existing story fights to be part of the quest right? like Plumeria and skull grunts?

oh and most importantly
4. how do I do this without f*king up the existing quest??? 😭

[broken lynx]

2. Yes
3. You do

4. If it's happening at the same time as the existing quest then it's not a new quest, it's a change to the existing quest. Update function will probably be needed

[velvet oriole]

Plumeria gives a Poison Z crystal though, do I have to change her temp battle to include that?

[velvet oriole]

oh shoot, you also get the z ring prototype from saving nebby. well I guess I don't have to hit all the story beats, I can leave out the z crystal stuff right?

like "go to x location", "do y temp battle", etc.? keep it simple?

[broken lynx]

No, because she doesn't give you the Z Crystal after either of her battles

[velvet oriole]

oh you're right, my bad lol. it's after a few regular skull grunt battles, but it's still part of the story. they block poni canyon

I guess I can ignore it then 👍

[velvet oriole]

okay so I said earlier I was going to do it island by island. these are all the story beats for Melemele. it looks kinda busy to me, but thoughts on this? I feel like should I cut out some temp battles or talking quests. I'd also leave out the recon squad after verdant cavern cause it'd be awkward to place since you get a gym badge/z crystal modal right after clearing it. Also I'm referencing Lucho's Kalos quest and since there are no Calem rival battles requirements there I'm leaving Hau as is

[spark fractal]

yeah I didn't want to touch the temp battles that were already in the game

[velvet oriole]

Yeah same here. only Galar has rival battles in its main quest

[broken lynx]

Yeah. And that's because the rival battles and the quest were made by the same person

[velvet oriole]

I see. it'll definitely be easy to add some Hau ones if I need to

[spark fractal]

I don't think it's necessary to integrate them as part of the story quest

but it could definitely be done

[velvet oriole]

but Plumeria scares me cause she's already there

[spark fractal]

I just didn't want to bother with it

[broken lynx]

However, there is a way to reset the defeat value of temp battles in an update function, so if you want to include them, use that.

There are no more Hau battles to add, so that's not an option

[velvet oriole]

hmm, must have looked at the wrong code. I'm still planning it out so I don't know everything that's already in 😅

but there is definitely a conflict in the existing quest, I think I remember Guzma appearing in Malie Garden out of order

but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it

should there be a Hau button in the town?

[prime jacinth]

they usually do either on map or a button in a town/dungeon, not both

[broken lynx]

Yep, never both

[velvet oriole]

Melemele Woods only unlocks after you have access to Verdant Cavern. does that mean I can't put a Lillie npc or the Spearow fight there unless a dungeon is unlocked?

oh nevermind, it doesn't seem like it
requirements: [new RouteKillRequirement(10, GameConstants.Region.alola, 2)],
https://github.com/pokeclicker/pokeclicker/blob/develop/src/scripts/towns/TownList.ts#L5554

[spark fractal]

correct

I had this "problem" too while my making kalos quest

[velvet oriole]

actually it seems I lucked out cause melemele woods has separate requirements from verdant cavern, they just happen to be the same. of course, you can never be sure about these things until you test it...

[broken lynx]

If you need to change requirements, then do so

[spark fractal]

I changed so many requirements in kalos quest

[broken lynx]

In fact, you will need to change many requirements

[velvet oriole]

I suck at comedy but don't want my descriptions to be too bland either. would a quest description like this be too much? I feel like it is...
const talkToLillie2 = new TalkToNPCQuest(Lillie2, 'Almost falling to your doom was not on the brochure. This never would have happened in Kanto. Ask the mysterious girl in white if it's too late for a refund.');

yeah I think I'll just write out the steps normally and worry about insignificant details like this after

[spark fractal]

I think that's fine, personally

you don't have to force yourself if you don't like it though

[velvet oriole]

I think it is funny, but I just don't want it to be annoying to other people who read it

[spark fractal]

wait, do people read?

I thought they closed their eyes and asked in discord

[molten pine]

sorry guys, i've been super busy. i've managed to lock in a new job, so i've been focusing on that.

[molten pine]

the big thing i was told when doing my own humerus stuff was to make sure they can start at any step. so include the location where the npc is at.

[velvet oriole]

okay... melemele is done, but I have to adjust the requirements so everything still plays out right if you've already completed the island

[velvet oriole]

huh that's weird does the link not work?

hmm I can't post the link to my draft...

[inland roost]

Discord prevent you to avoid post links to unofficial forks

Ask Eugene as he knows how to bypass it

[snow pewter]

right. discord insists you but a "/../" in the middle of your link, like this:
https://farboo171.github.io/../pokeclicker/

[velvet oriole]

oh nice, okay then
https://osherwott.github.io/../pokeclicker/

feedback I'm expecting:

• adjusting the difficulty curve
• any dialogue changes
• ideas on how to code Rotomdex
  but obviously, feel free to give thoughts on anything else too
  ............
  plan so far:
• add the quest one island at a a time
• get permission to do sun and moon flute stuff
• potential tapu quest that can be activated when you first reach Kukui's house (that's part of why the quest takes you there, the other part is so players don't lost on which island to go if they haven't' played gen 7)
  and you also add ideas of your own if you want to share

...........
and to note:

• original sprites by me can be changed for showdown ones or if a real artist wants to do them
• yes I spelled my name wrong in the credits but I like the way eugene spells it so :P

[snow pewter]

Whoops

[broken lynx]

Do you mean Rotomdex as an obtainable Pokémon?

[velvet oriole]

no it's fine, really. I like that it looks like a real name than whatever i came up with. rolls off the tongue too

[velvet oriole]

no it's an npc to help guide you (theoretically) since Alola is the first place with so many subregions unlocked so closely to each other

It can be removed if subregional travel confusion isn't a thing players experience, but I thought rotomdex was cute so decided to do something with him lol

[snow pewter]

I'll give it a look later this week

[snow pewter]

oook time to test

[snow pewter]

@velvet oriole my temporary battles are all shifted wrong and i can't sart the quest :/

[velvet oriole]

try now

[snow pewter]

still busted. lemme take a look at your branch

found the problem: Your test site looks like it is for 10.10, but your PR is all correctly updated to 10.11.

Fear not! I'll just test it off of the PR cuz i know how to do that

[velvet oriole]

oh right, I forgot the test site was a different branch 🤦

[snow pewter]

[test branches suck, its fine]

[snow pewter]

well, even in the PR, the temp battle index is off, with the update working correctly.

[velvet oriole]

dialogue changes fixed. currently awaiting difficulty curve feedback
also please report if any temp battles aren't spawning, idk what's causing it

[spark fractal]

@snow pewter I got a fun idea for the quest for the lake guardian trio, mind if I take it?

[snow pewter]

! I don't mind at all, go for it!

[spark fractal]

guessed so 😛

[inland roost]

Eugene making party in his home right now

[snow pewter]

we already made hoenn thicc with content, sinnoh needs some love

[spark fractal]

and we will get probably less questions for zero's quest

I'm planning to change the requirement of distortion world to finish champion league and doing lake guardian trio quest

(and ofc the requirement that is already there from zero's quest)

so it shows when you click in the distortion world that you need those three things

should stop a lot of people from asking

though tbh we could change the requirement of distortion world to own the three pokemon and it would fix this problem already

but anyway, I'll be working on it whenever I have a bit of time

[snow pewter]

questions have reduced a little since adding an npc but yeah. good idea

[iron onyx]

just wondering if there was a plan for the arceus types

[spark fractal]

Hisui, already being worked on

[iron onyx]

oh thanks

[spark fractal]

np

[snow pewter]

OK so Lucho's working on the lake spirits, and i have an idea for Hoopa Unbound now

[spark fractal]

As I said I have it fully fleshed out I just need to code it. It's not even too hard of a quest. Just some small fun things

But new games came out and I've been busy

I should have again free time to code a quest very soon

[snow pewter]

1. Quest only starts after you catch hoopa as a normal roamer
2. The plot of Clash of the Ages that makes it seem like you'll get to catch all these crazy powerful shiny pokemons, but... you can't.
3. At the end you fight hoopa unbound as per the movie but you don't actually get it
4. Hoopa Unbound is now a micle wanderer

[spark fractal]

Lmao I hecking love it

Hoopa Unbound seems too strong to just wander on the farm though

What about hoopa Unbound turns into a roamer, takes normal hoopa off of the roamer pool

And makes hoopa a micle wanderer like other mythicals?

[haughty frigate]

When it wanders it destroys your whole farm and only has a 2% of being catched

[spark fractal]

So you actually need to catch two roamers in kalos

Makes him more of a trickster

[snow pewter]

lemme do a little more research. my main design thought is.... normal hoopa, i don't want to gate people in Kalos cuz of my stupid prankmon

but unbound is an alt form so pranks away

[haughty frigate]

Make a hoopa unbound battle in kalos after you complete the quest which has 100x diantha's hp

[spark fractal]

It's just hoopa wanderer would fit with other mythical wanderers

But unbound is just too big

[velvet oriole]

if you want a funny Micle wanderer, regular Hoopa is fine and fits with the other roamers. I... don't like Unbound being it

[haughty frigate]

I agree with that, making all mythicals also wanderers would be good(or atleast the smaller from each region)

[snow pewter]

😦

well then i no longer have a great idea for hoopa unbound i suppose

just ya standard pokemon movie plot

[vagrant dew]

Micle Wanderer.

[velvet oriole]

I'm sure you'll think of something

less sadistic

[haughty frigate]

The quest is good is just the obtaining method which is eh

[velvet oriole]

hmm... well it's a form, so it can be harder than a regular mon...

there's those rings in ORAS? players will already be going there for delta stuff. maybe something with mirage spots that appear randomly? like how primals are with weather?

temp battles against legendaries all over hoenn?

idk

[snow pewter]

purchasable prison bottle for secret bases!

step 1: invent secret bases

[velvet oriole]

I love step 1!

[snow pewter]

there's already an approved issue, but it's not on the "Stuff that's already started" list so i'm not gonna ask jaas for it

[broken lynx]

Could put the Prison Bottle super rare as safari zone loot lol

[velvet oriole]

we don't need to stick with prison themes

get it? cause safaris are like prison? well I thought it was funny lol

[snow pewter]

hm
One doesn't get rare drop items from wanderers right?

[latent moss]

no, wanderers dont provide items

rare drops only come from defeating wild pokemon

[spark fractal]

Unless we code it

[snow pewter]

ok we're back in business if i can figure out quest items. Rare drop from hoopa being the prison bottle to actually start the quest

[broken lynx]

Quest Items were my idea and I don't understand them yet lol

[haughty frigate]

hey, eugene could you add my name in the pr for the swords of justice?

[snow pewter]

does that include the Keldeos?

[haughty frigate]

Only the normal one

[weak temple]

brainstorming mew and mewtwo again, so #2957 says remove mewtwo strikes back event, would there be any issue with locking mew behind the new quest for that PR?
Then would the questline follow just the movie or would a mix of sources to make the quest a bit more fleshed make sense?
Then would origin mewtwo be a roamer with mew stats as an alt form or would it be a purchasable pokemon or just a picture like kecleon?
Then should armored mewtwo obtain method be changed to match one of the canon stories?

[iron notch]

Linked PRs detected

https://github.com/pokeclicker/pokeclicker/pull/2957

[weak temple]

i think i need to play through kanto again

[snow pewter]

hm. red is for sure the person to ask (you could probably ping them with your final idea)
My thought on it is... as long as it unlocks after the E4, I'm ok with some creativity.

it being Mewtwo.
For mew locking behind the new quest.... as long as it doesn't prevent mono-psychic runs from being possible, probably fine?

[weak temple]

i want mew to follow orgins where you catch all 150 and the go back to oak and realize that there 151 pokemon and now you need to adventure back out to capture mew

[snow pewter]

that is in keeping with the base game experience too. lemme math real quick

[weak temple]

its also pretty much a full kanto questline

or half kanto depending on where to start

[velvet oriole]

are you sure it's a good idea for Mew to be locked behind a quest? I kinda liked that you can catch it randomly. it's like a tutorial in itself for roaming pokemon

otherwise Wendy will have nothing to say...

[weak temple]

there already roaming npc like that

[velvet oriole]

yeah but Kanto is the first region, it's where players learn about stuff

I mean I'm just one person, so idk

just... feels wrong. in my opinion

[weak temple]

then having mew after as roaming and having the quest line direct you to wendy would be an intro to roamer npcs

[blissful magnet]

RIP Minimum Run

[snow pewter]

[this would not break monopsychic cuz slobro]

[velvet oriole]

uh, aren't monotypes going to be patched? I thought there was a pr to fix the weird modal glitches

[weak temple]

also serves as a slight pre johto filter so people wont be severely under powered

[snow pewter]

that is the big thing to consider: if it is forced that mew is last after the other 151, it will slow down kanto on average.

[blissful magnet]

this is not how I wanted to learn about monotype dying

[snow pewter]

since a lot of peopel randomly get mew while not really trying

[snow pewter]

sauce?

[velvet oriole]

#4308

[iron notch]

Linked PRs detected

https://github.com/pokeclicker/pokeclicker/pull/4308

[velvet oriole]

but I also don't understand it so I may be wrong lol

[blissful magnet]

that's a different thing

[snow pewter]

i asked

[blissful magnet]

oh well

if that happens guess you won't be seeing more updates from me lol

[snow pewter]

i think that PR won't affect it

but back to mew: i can ask around the devs about it

or, if you want, comment on that PR with a somewhat complete outline of your plan. If red likes it, it's basically auto approved lol

[snow pewter]

i guess lemme test it. you got a save that's right before a new region

[weak temple]

forced after mewtwo

[snow pewter]

starter skip by opening another modal like hatchery is still working

in that PR

[velvet oriole]

@haughty frigate is your Silvally PR still good? you closed it

[haughty frigate]

Yea, it was just a mistake. I'm fixing it tomorrow cus i'm busy rn

[velvet oriole]

cool, just making sure if you need any help!

[haughty frigate]

I'll probably need tomorrow

[snow pewter]

Aight so I'm for sure gonna do hoopa unbound next. I have a pretty clean idea set for it that won't take any new assets or mechanics

Catch hoopa, start quest, npc blah blah, escalating series of tasks to get prison bottle quest item, npc releases hoopa unbound, it summons a bunch of legendaries like in the movie, fight em, unlock hoopa unbound

[blissful magnet]

Roamer?

[vagrant dew]

The wanderer ?

[snow pewter]

Either roamer or a gift Mon like meta Groudon

And yes, micles wanderer

[vagrant dew]

[inland roost]

Micles wanderer? That's oxymoron

[snow pewter]

updated the issue, and i have claimed Zygarde

[haughty frigate]

since, i'm basically done with all of my other projects i'll start working on the swords of justice

[snow pewter]

Fuck it, I wrote up Tenesect today, I'll do that too

[snow pewter]

@blissful magnet got them sweet sweet genesect sprites?

[haughty frigate]

He's offline rn but i do have the sprites

Well only 1 set of them

But i can edit it rq

[inland roost]

Wait for them

[haughty frigate]

I'm pretty sure i do have his permission since there was an argument related to them when he created and he asked me to take care of them

[snow pewter]

we can wait, i have just now started and can use placeholder images

[haughty frigate]

Here, it goes in this order: Normal, Burn, Chill, Douse and Shock

Don't credit me. credit him since it's his sprite

[snow pewter]

thanks!
Actually getting this quest done is probably weeks away due to held item fuckery, but i'll file em

[blissful magnet]

I guess I'm not needed anymore

[snow pewter]

Unless y'all can dig up the non high speed genesect too

[blissful magnet]

pretty sure they are slightly different the ones I have

I had regular Genesect

I deleted it but I suppose I can get em from that pokemondb site

Burn, Chill, Douse, Shock

@snow pewter there you go

[snow pewter]

Thanks!
High speed is pant credit, others are... base game?

[blissful magnet]

yeah those are the in-game sprites I got from https://pokemondb.net/pokedex/genesect#dex-sprites

[snow pewter]

thanks!

[dapper swift]

Did I hear Zygarde Quest 👀

[velvet oriole]

alola 👋

i don't like "claiming" stuff, so if someone want to do zygarde all on their own, they can

[snow pewter]

Zygarde
My current plan is to do an alola questline, with 25 "cells" on each island, and the cores cotten during quest steps loosely associated with the anime plot

[velvet oriole]

why anime plot?

[haughty frigate]

Maybe the plot is better than the games i think?

[velvet oriole]

the games just have a collect-a-thon, so probably?

[snow pewter]

steps would be like "find 10 cells on routes on Poni Island", with the acutal req being 100 steps on route. same for things like "find 10 cells in dungeons on poni island", req being one clear

These numbers are placeholders

[dapper swift]

I actually think 75 Cells total would make more sense given you already kinda have a Zygarde?

[snow pewter]

and plot is whatever, for me the big ticket is the scavenget hunt for cells

it'd be a in per-island steps but not very clear on exactly where the cells are. gotta hunt em all

[velvet oriole]

when i tried to estimate i ended up with around 50-70 as a good idea, but my idea was just finding them in the overworld by clicking on sussy spots

i was wondering, is there a way to have all the cells as quest items?

[snow pewter]

end result is a "shop" you can buy forms from, for a big price, probs gems

[velvet oriole]

ew, please no shops 😓

[snow pewter]

that question is why i haven't done it yet

[velvet oriole]

it has a perfectly good dungeon

resolution cave is perfect for a zygarde boss. i'd much prefer giving dungeons more content than needless gem grinding. the silvally fill that role for alola anyways

if we can add the pokemon naturally to the world, we should. that's my philosophy

[snow pewter]

sure that's fine too

after genesect is refactored and merged, i can probably actually start on it

[velvet oriole]

ok, so now, your plot. is that like, temp battles?

[snow pewter]

yeah basically. beat up dudes to get the cores

[velvet oriole]

i'm guessing that doesn't mean 100 temp battles?

is that the only thing we can do with maps btw?

[snow pewter]

nooooo. someting on the order of 5 or 6

[velvet oriole]

well that's just boring. only 6 steps? booo

[dapper swift]

I would say there should be many ways the Cells are hidden

[snow pewter]

you are asking me piecewise questions and getting piecewise answers

[dapper swift]

Some witth Temp Battles, some on Maps, some in Dungeons

[velvet oriole]

lmao, fair enough. go on!

[dapper swift]

Also would it only be cells or also the Cores?

[velvet oriole]

i would assume cells, cause cores are basically the same thing, scavenger hunt-wise

[dapper swift]

Maybe the 5 Cores could be Temp Battles and the cells found differently?

[velvet oriole]

! that's an idea!

[snow pewter]

i have no issues passing this idea off to people who are more passionate about it than me

[velvet oriole]

we're just exchanging ideas. if you have it planned out, i won't interfere

at the end of the day it's up to you

[vagrant dew]

Where is the pixel hunt ?

[snow pewter]

Find 10 zygarde cells hidden somewhere hidden

[velvet oriole]

can gift npcs be linked to overworld clicks? if we can for temp battles surely we can have a couple "you found a zygarde cell! collect it?"

[blissful magnet]

I want to click the map

[snow pewter]

did anyone else playtest the OG Meltan quest? where a hundred rocket trainers showed up EVERYWHERE and you had to beat them?

cuz option B can be "beat 100 goddamn zygarde cells" which are temp battles (we can make them alt forms and give them junk stats)

and hide them as a 100 pixel hunt

combo option is, of course, a blended approach. each island has a few pixel hunt cells

[velvet oriole]

i mean they could also be in chests, right?

qwerty's mega mewtwo quest has quest items in chests, if you want a reference

[dapper swift]

I would have some be in dungeon chest, some (if that works be optainable from routes) and others being click things, maybe even a few you need to buy.

And the Cores as Temp Battles, as I previously said

[velvet oriole]

if we're concerned about alt forms, the temp battles could be 10% zygarde that gives you the cores after defeat? or is that too many quest items lol

[haughty frigate]

Aren't the cores the ones that that little girl in the xyz anime had?

[dapper swift]

I mean 5 Temp battles seem fine?

[haughty frigate]

I think the name she gave it was squishy or something like that

They could basically be the actual temp battles

[dapper swift]

I only know that these are parts of Zygard that store attacks in the game

[velvet oriole]

yes, cores have the red thing in them. in the games they give your zygarde access to moves

[velvet oriole]

they definitely could if we're okay with not being strict with the canon, cause cores and cells aren't real forms, nor can they battle

for the sake of an interesting quest i think it could work

[haughty frigate]

If them being alt forms of zygarde is rejected they could just be negative id temp battle mons

[velvet oriole]

yeah, that would work

[dapper swift]

I mean there were those Red Zygarde in the Anime, but I do not know their lore

[velvet oriole]

the anime had a blue core, which is just the anime being anime. is that what you mean?

[dapper swift]

No

[haughty frigate]

The anime has a red form of zygarde but idk the lore about it

[dapper swift]

That thing

What ever that is

[blissful magnet]

I mean, if anything deserved a pixel hunt, is a few of these lads

[velvet oriole]

eh, probably just... anime being anime

slap a color on a mon to show it's "different"

[haughty frigate]

It looks like it's an evil form of zygarde but idk why it's evil

[velvet oriole]

honestly the flare arc was so badly handled in xy i kinda forget too...

[dapper swift]

Ah, I know what it is

It actually is that blue core Cell, ( Z2 ) being controlled by Team Flare

Apperently?

[velvet oriole]

ah, that makes sense

Zygarde (Flare)

lmao

[snow pewter]

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Giant_Rock

As a Zygarde, the Giant Rock's characteristics parallel those of the Meta Groudon from Jirachi: Wish Maker. Both of them are artificial, corrupted, bigger versions of a Ground-type Legendary Pokémon, created by characters associating with villainous teams whose goals were to capture and control the real version. Both creatures are also mindless beasts whose sole intentions are to absorb more power.

[velvet oriole]

no, that's a differernt thing

pendra's talking about this

[snow pewter]

i know. i was talking about other zygarde formes

[dapper swift]

Oh, I see

[velvet oriole]

oh, a meta zygarde kinda thing? that could be cool

[snow pewter]

is big. is rock. is big rock

[dapper swift]

Rock

Big

[velvet oriole]

so, we're bringing these up to see if they'd fit in the zygarde quest?

[dapper swift]

I think the Red one could be used for the Temp Battles, if the 10% form isn't used

And then maybe be obtained in some other way once the quest is done

[velvet oriole]

we could stick it in kalos somewhere, give a reason to go back to the region? i kinda like it when you unlock stuff in previous regions

[snow pewter]

two quests has precident, with meta groudon. one for the mainline game forms, one for the anime spinoff form

[velvet oriole]

what do you mean? isn't meta groudon's quest also jirachi's?

oh unless you mean vs regular groudon?

[blissful magnet]

No?

Wish Maker is Jirachi. After that one is done, Meta quest becomes available

[velvet oriole]

yeah, just checked. my bad lol

[blissful magnet]

They aren't the same quest

[dapper swift]

Meta Groundon Apears in a Quest as a boss and later has one where you recreate it to obtain it

[velvet oriole]

is that the idea we're going with for anime zygarde?

just temp battles and then its own quest?

[snow pewter]

its a possibility. or we could do one big quest, because it's a bit different, and base form is just chillin in a cave

[dapper swift]

That would also open up the Question of how it is tied together with 10% and 100% being mostly an Alola thing and Red one mostly being a Kalos / Team Flare thing

[snow pewter]

my thought is alola first, other stuff second

[dapper swift]

Yeah, same

[prime jacinth]

but don't you defeat Flare before going to Alola?

[dapper swift]

Team Rainbow Rocket is Alola

Which includes the Flare Leader

So that could be used?

[prime jacinth]

I guess so but it wouldn't make much sense for that to happen back in Kalos (if that's what the plan was)

I think the original games' lore says that the RR leaders are from alternate dimensions

[velvet oriole]

it's a quest, dialogue can be written around it. maybe there was an old machine that wasn't turned off? maybe a scientist went AWOL and tried to do their own thing. i don't think it's that much of an issue, is it? i could be wrong, i'm just voicing my thoughts

[dapper swift]

I mean the Anime and Games are, by that logic also different Universes from each other, so is Regular Hoenn and Remake Hoenn, and in clicker they are still mixed

So I don't think its the biggest issue

Especially if we write around it

[velvet oriole]

<%- include('templates/mapPOI',
            { name: "hey does this work?"
            , width: 3, height: 3
            , x: 79, y: 15
            , visible:  "App.game.quests.getQuestLine('Zygarde Quest').state() != QuestLineState.ended"
            , databind: `
            click: () => {
                    Notifier.notify({message: 'Squishy lmao'});
                    ItemList.Zygarde_Cell.gain(1) or something
                }`
            })
        %>```

[dapper swift]

Was bored and tried some stuff, probably need a pose change to be more unique but the colors look kinda nice on this

[haughty frigate]

That looks pretty cool

I especially like the pink shiny

[humble falcon]

red zygade kinda has rock skin

[haughty frigate]

There's 2 versions of it

[humble falcon]

oh i didn't know

sorry

[dapper swift]

The Rock is something else entirely

[velvet oriole]

would it be too mean if there were days where the Tapus didn't show up in their dungeon? they are supposed to be capricious and i think it could be interesting, but idk if it'd be fun, even if i make it so that you'd have to catch them through a temp battle before they show up in the dungeon at all. maybe if i also make them always available during a certain weather AND we have a way to switch weather? idk, i'm stumped.

[snow pewter]

Mainline dex required forms should not have convoluted obtain conditions, I say

[velvet oriole]

yeah, that's what's tripping me up. so far i have:

• collect all the z crystals
• temp battles after league at each island
  and... that's all

oh you know what? i'll go look at how the regis were done. they had some sort of fun puzzle

hmm so that played around with npcs... interesting...
i'm wondering what else there is to play around with. maybe how they spawn? tapu koko loves to battle, so it could be a regular encounter at first, or maybe like a "trainer" battle? yeah.. and then you have to encounter/defeat it a certain number of times for it to recognize your worth and appear as a boss?

[blissful magnet]

like the birbs in Galar before they start roaming?

[velvet oriole]

yeah but for dungeons. i'm pretty sure we have a "transparent" trainer images somewhere...

[blissful magnet]

oh like the Mewtwo?

hm... it has to count only the dungeon encounter then and not the BF ones

[velvet oriole]

oh! yes! is that a regular encounter?

[blissful magnet]

Mewtwo in Pokémon Village is technically a "trainer" battle

[velvet oriole]

meh, i wouldn't worry about BF. i can add a multirequirement for dungeon clears if it's that big of a problem

i just want it to be fun

[blissful magnet]

whatever was done for the Surprise Togepi

should work here

[velvet oriole]

if people can skip around all 4 of them with the bf, then...

[south shell]

in terms of making tapu quests more interesting, maybe they could be related to their anime appearances? e.g. lele could involve dusk lycanroc in some way, fini could involve going back and rematching lele, etc

just a story suggestion, not sure how you’d translate these into gameplay

[velvet oriole]

surprise togepi is a defeat the dungeon boss quest, i want them as regular encounters, so it'll feel more random. i'd probably have to work with statistic requirements (ie. defeated x amount number)

[blissful magnet]

number

[velvet oriole]

there >_>

[blissful magnet]

the issue is Battle Frontier also increases Defeated stat

and Encountered is only triggered by "wild" encounters

[velvet oriole]

those are good suggestions, but i usually try to not lean on the anime too much, just a personal preference of mine. i'll be sure to consider it though 👍 i know they all appeared at the altar of the sunne to upgrade ash's z ring

[velvet oriole]

encounters are only affected by routes? is that what you mean?

hrm... another meltan then

huh i just checked and regular dungeon encounters DO check as encountered

so make the statistic "x number encountered"? that could be fun, no?

[blissful magnet]

well yeah, Encountered is triggered by "wild"

dungeon encounters are also "wild" Pokémon

(unless they belong to a trainer)

[velvet oriole]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooh

ok ok... no big deal, i can still work with this... let's say, 10? dungeon clears to make tapu koko appear, and you can stumble upon it as a trainer battle but it'll have more HP than regular encounters, so it'll be a bit challenging. and then let's see... maybe the same but with mimics for tapu lele? 10 clears with the tapu as some sort of obstacle, yeah? does that work?

[blissful magnet]

wait

but mimics are wild mons

[velvet oriole]

yeah that's fine

[blissful magnet]

so wouldn't you be able to catch it there?

[velvet oriole]

you would

[snow pewter]

Seems straightforward enough for a player to fail their way thru it by just trying hard enough

(which is good)

[velvet oriole]

is that a, uh good thing?

oh lmao!

[velvet oriole]

ok and to address this:

[snow pewter]

'just keep clearing the dungeon you'll get there' is easy enough advice to give

[velvet oriole]

i want the quest to be simple, which will unlock the ruins, because i want the tapu quest to be involved with z crystals due to lore (tapus bestow their blessing/give you z rings), but that leaves the question: if the questline is simple, how do i make getting them challenging? and that's what i'm trying to do.

[snow pewter]

I think for a mainline quest, challenging isn't required.

Interesting, that's a good goal other than challenging

[velvet oriole]

and this is also why idk if i should keep the totem bosses after the quest is over or not, but that's a different thing

[full python]

can someone help me with this please?

[inland roost]

This is not the place

[latent moss]

This is a dev channel, not a help channel lmao

[iron onyx]

is someone doing a genie quest

[haughty frigate]

You mean landorus, thundurus and tornadus? If yes then no one is doing

[vagrant dew]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-spongebob-patrick-star-patrick-revive-gif-13717350